WEBVTT - So That's The Reason I Feel Bad About… My Eyelids? 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a mother and mea podcast. 0:00:15.874 --> 0:00:18.514 Hello and welcome to momam are out loud. It's what 0:00:18.553 --> 0:00:21.674 women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the nineteenth of 0:00:21.954 --> 0:00:24.794 I was going to say October nov my. 0:00:24.834 --> 0:00:27.794 Name is Hollywayen Right, I'm Amelia Luster and. 0:00:27.794 --> 0:00:30.874 I'm Jesse Stevens. I've been in New Zealand for a 0:00:30.874 --> 0:00:31.514 few days. 0:00:31.754 --> 0:00:33.394 Claire is back. 0:00:33.473 --> 0:00:35.754 She's going to be back for Friday's episode because I 0:00:35.793 --> 0:00:39.034 have a very very big week just on New Zealand. 0:00:39.634 --> 0:00:41.994 Have either of you seen Lord of the Rings? 0:00:42.314 --> 0:00:45.273 I watched it every single year around New Year's Eve. 0:00:45.553 --> 0:00:48.194 Really like all of them, love it. Have you seen 0:00:48.193 --> 0:00:49.394 the Hobbit Yeah? 0:00:49.434 --> 0:00:49.954 Not as good. 0:00:50.034 --> 0:00:51.834 The out loud as are horrified that I've never seen 0:00:51.873 --> 0:00:53.594 Lord of the Rings? Very really mad. 0:00:53.714 --> 0:00:56.074 How have you managed to live your life and avoid that? 0:00:56.234 --> 0:00:58.954 I've had people try and force me, sit me down, 0:00:59.034 --> 0:01:01.434 and I just I can't watch more than about. 0:01:01.234 --> 0:01:02.114 Six minutes of it. 0:01:02.194 --> 0:01:03.234 So did you go to Hobbiton? 0:01:03.354 --> 0:01:05.033 I went to Hobbiton, which I love. 0:01:05.314 --> 0:01:07.594 Did you understand Hobbiton? If you haven't in any. 0:01:07.434 --> 0:01:08.794 Of these totally did? 0:01:09.434 --> 0:01:10.913 What's this strange little place? 0:01:11.274 --> 0:01:12.594 Why is it all so little? 0:01:13.154 --> 0:01:15.594 I actually really really rated it. I thought it was 0:01:15.634 --> 0:01:17.314 awesome and was there with the two year old who 0:01:17.354 --> 0:01:20.314 just went it's the city made for me. Yeah, you 0:01:20.354 --> 0:01:22.074 get to go into one of the houses and play 0:01:22.114 --> 0:01:23.554 with things and stuff, which was awesome. 0:01:23.994 --> 0:01:26.554 But I would love to do that. And you haven't 0:01:26.594 --> 0:01:27.514 even watched. 0:01:27.354 --> 0:01:29.714 I know, I know it's sick. 0:01:29.794 --> 0:01:32.674 It's incredible, and I just appreciated the movie set element. 0:01:32.714 --> 0:01:35.514 That's like the biggest movie set in the world. But yet, nah, 0:01:35.554 --> 0:01:36.594 I haven't read it. 0:01:36.954 --> 0:01:37.634 Have you read it? 0:01:37.914 --> 0:01:39.314 I read it when I was a kid. My dad 0:01:39.314 --> 0:01:39.874 read it to me. 0:01:40.714 --> 0:01:40.914 I know. 0:01:42.194 --> 0:01:44.634 Brent's obsessed. He's one of those well he's a key 0:01:44.634 --> 0:01:47.274 way of course, he's completely obsessed. He's got all the 0:01:47.354 --> 0:01:49.794 director's cuts. He tries to make the kids watch it 0:01:49.834 --> 0:01:52.074 all the time. Billy has been reading it and he 0:01:52.194 --> 0:01:53.594 kind of got yeah, it's the whole thing. You got 0:01:53.634 --> 0:01:54.994 to get into order the rings. 0:01:55.114 --> 0:01:56.354 Do I have to watch it? 0:01:56.474 --> 0:02:03.754 Actually, yes, in it and he's like, really really hot. Actually, 0:02:03.834 --> 0:02:07.994 Orlando is probably more your thing, young Orlando Blue is 0:02:08.034 --> 0:02:09.354 the elf king hotness. 0:02:09.594 --> 0:02:13.074 Okay, all right, I'll give it. Yeah, he lost me 0:02:13.073 --> 0:02:15.874 at elf King, but I like the hotness. 0:02:16.994 --> 0:02:20.554 Dear anyway, here's what's made our agenda today. Eyelids are 0:02:20.554 --> 0:02:23.233 over and there's an essay that everybody has to read 0:02:23.434 --> 0:02:25.554 about surgery. These are just a couple of the silly 0:02:25.594 --> 0:02:27.674 things around about women's faces this week. 0:02:27.914 --> 0:02:31.234 And millennials aren't having affairs anymore. I want to talk 0:02:31.234 --> 0:02:32.994 about whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. 0:02:33.474 --> 0:02:34.474 And state funerals. 0:02:34.514 --> 0:02:38.914 Two prominent Australians have been offered and accepted them in 0:02:38.954 --> 0:02:41.154 the last few weeks, and we discuss what that means 0:02:41.154 --> 0:02:43.594 and why a lot of people are very, very mad. 0:02:43.914 --> 0:02:47.474 Well, first, in case you missed it, Michelle Obama, which 0:02:47.474 --> 0:02:49.114 he's been saying a lot of good stuff lately. We 0:02:49.234 --> 0:02:51.714 remember we talked about her last week with her parenting advice. 0:02:52.194 --> 0:02:54.914 But I have one question from Melia lest after you 0:02:54.994 --> 0:02:58.794 hear this little bit about Michelle Obama talking about women 0:02:59.034 --> 0:02:59.954 running for president. 0:03:00.434 --> 0:03:04.994 As we saw in this past election, sadly we ain't ready. 0:03:06.114 --> 0:03:08.754 That's why I'm like, don't even look at me about running, 0:03:08.754 --> 0:03:11.954 because you all are lying you're not ready for a woman. 0:03:12.274 --> 0:03:15.994 You are not, so don't waste my time. You know, 0:03:16.354 --> 0:03:18.754 we had a lot of growing up to do, and 0:03:18.794 --> 0:03:21.594 theyre's still I'm sadly, a lot of men who do 0:03:21.674 --> 0:03:23.954 not feel like they can be led by a woman, 0:03:23.994 --> 0:03:25.834 and we saw it. 0:03:25.874 --> 0:03:27.394 Is that true, Amelia Lester. 0:03:28.034 --> 0:03:29.634 It is a bit of a split screen, isn't it? 0:03:29.634 --> 0:03:32.474 Because I saw this everywhere this weekend, And then just 0:03:32.514 --> 0:03:37.194 before we came into record, I saw that President Trump 0:03:37.474 --> 0:03:41.074 was on Air Force one this morning and he called 0:03:41.114 --> 0:03:45.754 a female reporter a piggy. He said, stop talking, piggy. So, 0:03:45.834 --> 0:03:47.554 you know, on the one hand, I can see why 0:03:47.594 --> 0:03:50.994 she says that Americans are not ready. On the other hand, 0:03:51.114 --> 0:03:56.714 I feel a little bit more optimistic than Michelle on this. 0:03:56.914 --> 0:03:59.434 I mean, what we had to remember is Americans gave 0:03:59.554 --> 0:04:03.434 Hillary Clinton the popular vote, and seventy five million Americans 0:04:03.594 --> 0:04:06.634 voted for Kamila Harris. There were a lot of things 0:04:06.754 --> 0:04:10.354 going on in that election that were weird and unusual. 0:04:10.594 --> 0:04:12.994 She had one hundred and six days to run. I 0:04:13.154 --> 0:04:15.514 just wonder if things might have just gone a little 0:04:15.554 --> 0:04:17.954 bit differently, we would be living in a completely different 0:04:17.954 --> 0:04:21.034 timeline talking about how evolved Americans are for voting in 0:04:21.074 --> 0:04:24.113 an American woman to be president. So I feel just 0:04:24.193 --> 0:04:26.993 a little bit more optimistic than her and the people who. 0:04:26.834 --> 0:04:29.914 Are saying to her, run run run, are. 0:04:30.393 --> 0:04:31.953 Not the same people who wouldn't vote for her, Like, 0:04:31.993 --> 0:04:34.753 I don't think they're lying. I think whether the US 0:04:34.834 --> 0:04:37.754 is ready is a really valid question, and I totally 0:04:37.873 --> 0:04:41.034 appreciate and respect her position of like, don't waste my time. 0:04:41.034 --> 0:04:44.874 I'm not going to do this to be racially villified, 0:04:45.393 --> 0:04:47.874 to be the subject of sexism, all of the things 0:04:47.914 --> 0:04:50.234 we know it would happen, Like all power to her. 0:04:50.274 --> 0:04:54.193 I completely understand her position. But as you say, seventy 0:04:54.193 --> 0:04:56.794 five million people vote for Kamala Harris, that means a 0:04:56.794 --> 0:05:01.273 lot of Americans are ready. As we record this episode, 0:05:01.513 --> 0:05:05.594 the doors of Saint Andrew's Cathedral are opening, just literally 0:05:05.633 --> 0:05:09.394 a few steps from we are sitting right now, hundreds 0:05:09.433 --> 0:05:13.474 and hundreds of Australians will gather for the state funeral 0:05:13.633 --> 0:05:16.914 of John Laws. He passed away at the age of 0:05:17.034 --> 0:05:21.634 ninety ten days ago, and he was a broadcaster, a 0:05:22.034 --> 0:05:22.474 sort of. 0:05:22.794 --> 0:05:23.873 The first shock jock. 0:05:24.034 --> 0:05:27.674 I suppose for more than seven decades he was known 0:05:27.674 --> 0:05:30.753 as the Golden Tonsils was his nickname, and Chris Mins, 0:05:30.834 --> 0:05:33.473 the New South Wales Premier, says he left a lasting 0:05:33.553 --> 0:05:38.553 mark on Australian media. For those reasons, they've decided that 0:05:38.674 --> 0:05:43.714 he should you receive this honor. But Holly, there's more 0:05:43.753 --> 0:05:48.433 to Laws's story. What is sort of the controversial aspects 0:05:48.433 --> 0:05:49.393 of what he's known for. 0:05:49.553 --> 0:05:52.674 So obviously he's a very famous man, and every prime 0:05:52.714 --> 0:05:54.393 minister that we've ever had has had to go and 0:05:54.433 --> 0:05:56.873 bend the knee, and indeed they'll be doing it again today. 0:05:57.354 --> 0:06:00.553 But the people who argue that Laws's reputation was not 0:06:00.674 --> 0:06:03.714 really unsolid enough to have warranted this would point to 0:06:03.794 --> 0:06:06.833 things like in nineteen ninety nine, he was part of 0:06:06.834 --> 0:06:09.553 a ski that was broadly called the cash for Comment scandal, 0:06:09.553 --> 0:06:13.273 where it was clear that he was promoting brands and 0:06:13.313 --> 0:06:16.153 things without disclosing them. In some ways that seems almost 0:06:16.234 --> 0:06:18.354 quaint in these days, but at the time that was 0:06:18.393 --> 0:06:21.354 a really big deal on talkback radio, and he knew 0:06:21.393 --> 0:06:23.154 that that was going to follow him when he did 0:06:23.193 --> 0:06:24.993 this interview with Lee Sales a few years ago, which 0:06:25.073 --> 0:06:27.193 was iconic. He sat there with his bourbon do you remember, 0:06:27.193 --> 0:06:29.513 and his sunglasses on, and one of the things he 0:06:29.594 --> 0:06:33.234 said was, remember the alleged cash for comment garbage that 0:06:33.313 --> 0:06:33.754 went on. 0:06:34.073 --> 0:06:35.194 I'm going to die with that. 0:06:35.474 --> 0:06:38.074 Even though all I was accused of was being excessively 0:06:38.073 --> 0:06:42.674 loyal to my sponsors that he also in two thousand 0:06:42.674 --> 0:06:45.873 and four, he and his colleague Steve Price were found 0:06:45.873 --> 0:06:49.954 guilty of homosexual vilification. Again cashed your mind back to 0:06:49.993 --> 0:06:52.873 a time when the bloc started and there was a 0:06:52.953 --> 0:06:55.993 male gay couple on it which was like ooh radical 0:06:56.073 --> 0:06:59.953 on TV, and both Laws and Price, in talking about it, 0:07:00.034 --> 0:07:02.874 used all kinds of slurs that you would never use 0:07:02.914 --> 0:07:04.833 now and should never have used them, and they both 0:07:04.914 --> 0:07:08.873 got really hefty fines for it. Other things he did, 0:07:08.993 --> 0:07:11.794 he made some really dismissive comments about mental health and 0:07:11.834 --> 0:07:16.394 some inappropriate talkback segments about sexual abuse. And he also 0:07:16.594 --> 0:07:20.473 was very well known for having very conservative workplace policies 0:07:20.514 --> 0:07:23.554 when it came to women. He called his producers handmaidens, 0:07:24.194 --> 0:07:26.794 and he insisted on skirts or dresses at. 0:07:26.674 --> 0:07:27.833 Work at all times. 0:07:27.953 --> 0:07:30.234 So these are some of the things that obviously follow 0:07:30.393 --> 0:07:33.434 the laws legacy that are not quite so illustrious. 0:07:33.834 --> 0:07:38.074 Yeah, So that's why some have expressed there's been kind 0:07:38.074 --> 0:07:41.874 of a loud chorus of discomfort about him being afforded 0:07:41.914 --> 0:07:44.514 a state funeral, which, to be clear, that means that 0:07:44.554 --> 0:07:47.953 it is funded by the state government, often in partnership 0:07:47.953 --> 0:07:50.754 with the federal government. In shot we're paying for it, 0:07:50.834 --> 0:07:52.634 taxpayer dollars paying for it. 0:07:53.154 --> 0:07:54.394 And how much are we talking? 0:07:54.634 --> 0:07:58.033 Okay, so it's not clear and it varies from person 0:07:58.074 --> 0:08:00.953 to person. But the big one that I remember a 0:08:00.953 --> 0:08:04.033 lot of discussion about was Shane warn He was afforded 0:08:04.074 --> 0:08:06.714 a state funeral. It was about one point six million 0:08:06.714 --> 0:08:08.354 dollars day. I think it cost tax pays. 0:08:08.994 --> 0:08:10.434 Now, another point. 0:08:10.154 --> 0:08:13.594 Of this that makes people annoyed is that John Laws 0:08:13.714 --> 0:08:16.593 made a lot of money. He was one of the 0:08:16.594 --> 0:08:21.354 most well paid radio broadcasters of his time. Estimates say, 0:08:21.434 --> 0:08:24.354 you know, in the millions every year. So could his 0:08:24.393 --> 0:08:27.393 family have afforded it? Absolutely? And so I guess the 0:08:27.514 --> 0:08:32.554 question is given his wealth. Given also the controversy do 0:08:32.634 --> 0:08:35.794 we think he should be afforded this state funeral or 0:08:35.794 --> 0:08:38.194 should it be private something that the family pays for 0:08:38.674 --> 0:08:39.674 like the rest of us. 0:08:39.714 --> 0:08:40.674 What do you reckon, Amelia? 0:08:41.274 --> 0:08:43.314 Yeah, I'm in a bit of two minds about it, 0:08:43.354 --> 0:08:47.154 because look, he obviously was really widely loved by millions 0:08:47.154 --> 0:08:49.754 of Australians and that was one of the reasons given 0:08:49.794 --> 0:08:52.394 by the state government for holding this funeral by a 0:08:52.434 --> 0:08:56.953 particular demographic segment of Australians. But nonetheless, millions of Australians. 0:08:57.194 --> 0:08:59.754 And also what I really appreciate about his legacy is 0:08:59.754 --> 0:09:02.474 that no one ever knew what his actual politics were. 0:09:02.834 --> 0:09:06.354 He kept them very much away from the microphone. He 0:09:06.434 --> 0:09:09.914 supported some Labor prime ministers, he supported some Liberal prime ministers. 0:09:10.354 --> 0:09:12.514 So I don't think that in any way he could 0:09:12.554 --> 0:09:16.554 be accused of being a partisan figure. That said, for me, 0:09:16.714 --> 0:09:19.274 the crux of this, and the reason I feel uncomfortable 0:09:19.274 --> 0:09:21.914 with it is because of the money element, not because 0:09:21.954 --> 0:09:24.714 his family could have afforded the state funeral. It's more 0:09:24.794 --> 0:09:28.914 because why do we put on a state funeral? Arguably 0:09:28.994 --> 0:09:30.994 it's to say thank you to someone who has served 0:09:30.994 --> 0:09:33.714 our nation in some meaningful way. And you can certainly 0:09:33.714 --> 0:09:36.474 make an argument that Laws has done that. But as 0:09:36.514 --> 0:09:40.194 you point out Jesse, he was rewarded handsomely for that. 0:09:40.754 --> 0:09:43.834 In he got millions of dollars in compensation every year 0:09:43.914 --> 0:09:46.994 for what he did. He was very professionally successful. I 0:09:47.034 --> 0:09:51.074 want to contrast that with someone like, for instance, Arthur Leggett, 0:09:51.074 --> 0:09:53.394 who I wasn't aware of, but a state funeral was 0:09:53.394 --> 0:09:56.394 held for him in Western Australia earlier this year. He 0:09:56.674 --> 0:09:59.514 was Australia's last World War Two prisoner. 0:09:59.554 --> 0:09:59.914 Of war. 0:10:00.434 --> 0:10:03.354 He was held by the Japanese for four years. He 0:10:03.394 --> 0:10:06.594 was captured when he was twenty two, and that seems 0:10:06.634 --> 0:10:09.194 to me to be a service to the nation that 0:10:09.234 --> 0:10:13.314 he was not particularly financially enriched for after that. Or 0:10:13.314 --> 0:10:17.514 another example is Charles Perkins Charlie Perkins, again serving his nation, 0:10:17.714 --> 0:10:21.754 but not really receiving financial rewards for that. So in 0:10:21.794 --> 0:10:23.514 the case of both those men, it's really a way 0:10:23.514 --> 0:10:26.034 of saying thank you in a way that they didn't 0:10:26.074 --> 0:10:26.794 get money for. 0:10:27.634 --> 0:10:29.914 Yeah, I like what you say about service, And I 0:10:29.954 --> 0:10:33.674 guess that the confusion or the complication here is that 0:10:34.234 --> 0:10:38.154 the other state funeral that has been afforded and will 0:10:38.194 --> 0:10:41.114 be happening in the coming days or weeks is Graham Richardson, 0:10:41.154 --> 0:10:46.914 who is a former Labor senator and instrumental in labor politics. 0:10:46.994 --> 0:10:51.394 But Kate McClymont, the Sinney Morning Herald's journalist, has come 0:10:51.434 --> 0:10:53.833 out and said this is a story I could never 0:10:53.874 --> 0:10:58.034 write like she had so much to say about Richardson. 0:10:58.954 --> 0:11:00.754 The article was jaw dropping. 0:11:00.914 --> 0:11:06.554 It was it was incredible, from corruption to stories of how. 0:11:06.754 --> 0:11:09.794 Swiss bank accounts demanding sex worker services as a form 0:11:09.834 --> 0:11:12.314 of payment from dodgy business to yours exactly. 0:11:12.474 --> 0:11:15.274 Like a lot of people have said, whatever is good deeds, 0:11:15.314 --> 0:11:18.833 he's bad deeds outweighed them, Holly. I mean, you could 0:11:18.834 --> 0:11:23.474 say richardson life of service labor politician, like, is this 0:11:23.514 --> 0:11:25.154 what we do now? If you get a state funeral, 0:11:25.154 --> 0:11:27.674 does that mean that everyone gets to prosecute everything you 0:11:27.714 --> 0:11:29.714 ever did and whether you're a good enough person to 0:11:30.674 --> 0:11:33.074 be allowed to have our tax paid dollars. 0:11:33.154 --> 0:11:36.554 I just think that's an inevitability of having even a 0:11:36.634 --> 0:11:39.994 thing that is a state funeral, Like, it's kind of 0:11:40.074 --> 0:11:44.994 a strange tradition. I agree with Amelia that I guess 0:11:45.114 --> 0:11:48.874 my particular leanings would be to people who of great 0:11:49.074 --> 0:11:51.594 acts of great service to the nation, who couldn't afford 0:11:51.594 --> 0:11:53.834 a decent sendoff, and who need to be rewarded and 0:11:53.874 --> 0:11:56.714 remembered in a fitting way. I think, great chip in 0:11:56.754 --> 0:11:57.394 for their funeral. 0:11:57.674 --> 0:11:59.154 But do you think about former pms. 0:11:59.234 --> 0:12:02.394 I think, well, even that, I mean, that's an active 0:12:02.434 --> 0:12:04.634 service to the nation. But again, you get paid for it, 0:12:04.754 --> 0:12:07.674 you know, I don't. I think it's a strange. What 0:12:07.994 --> 0:12:11.754 fascinates me the most about state funerals is that you 0:12:11.794 --> 0:12:14.314 get offered them, right, so you get offered them by 0:12:14.354 --> 0:12:17.434 the government, state government, federal government, and the family are 0:12:17.434 --> 0:12:20.434 the ones who decide. And so that tells you I 0:12:20.474 --> 0:12:22.954 think that the people who get them, they really wanted one, 0:12:23.074 --> 0:12:25.434 you know what I mean. Like Lawsy, he would have 0:12:25.474 --> 0:12:28.314 really wanted a state funeral. He wants everybody lined up 0:12:28.354 --> 0:12:32.274 there today, all the former pms, all his like rivals 0:12:32.274 --> 0:12:34.194 in radio or forced to wear a suit and be 0:12:34.274 --> 0:12:38.634 there for the TV cameras. Whereas famously Steve Irwin, very 0:12:38.634 --> 0:12:41.394 famous Australian of a very different kind, was offered one 0:12:41.394 --> 0:12:43.314 and his family were like, nah, he wouldn't like that. 0:12:43.834 --> 0:12:46.794 And Betty Cuffbert, she was an Olympic legend, female Olympic 0:12:46.914 --> 0:12:49.274 legend from you know, the olden days as it were. 0:12:49.394 --> 0:12:51.554 She died this year and she was offered one too, 0:12:51.594 --> 0:12:53.674 and her family were like, nah, she would have hated that. 0:12:53.994 --> 0:12:57.674 We want a quiet, private service that just remembers her 0:12:57.714 --> 0:12:59.874 as she would have liked to be remembered. So I'm 0:12:59.954 --> 0:13:02.394 kind of fascinated by the idea of if you were 0:13:02.474 --> 0:13:03.874 offered one, if you'd take it. 0:13:05.074 --> 0:13:07.794 There is some like pomp and ceremony, it will be 0:13:07.874 --> 0:13:10.714 a real spectacle, the John Laws thing, and some people 0:13:10.794 --> 0:13:14.954 do deserve that. Fred Hollows had a state funeral and 0:13:14.994 --> 0:13:18.114 his contribution to Australia, you know, he was someone who 0:13:18.234 --> 0:13:21.394 restored the eyesight of so many Australians and people overseas, 0:13:21.794 --> 0:13:24.514 enormous legacy, Like yes, about down. 0:13:24.634 --> 0:13:26.554 It's going to be televised too. So I was on 0:13:26.914 --> 0:13:29.874 I was watching seven this morning and they were very 0:13:29.874 --> 0:13:33.194 heavily promoting it. And it's interesting because it wasn't a 0:13:33.234 --> 0:13:35.354 state funeral, I don't think, but one of the most 0:13:35.394 --> 0:13:38.914 memorable televised Australian funerals I can remember, and it happened 0:13:38.914 --> 0:13:43.034 in the same place was Michael Hutchins's funeral and that 0:13:43.194 --> 0:13:46.554 was across the road here, and the optics of all 0:13:46.634 --> 0:13:51.554 these glamorous women like Kylie Minogue, Helena Christian Coates and 0:13:51.994 --> 0:13:55.074 in their like little veils and it was like Nick 0:13:55.114 --> 0:13:58.074 Cave was playing into your arms. It was like a 0:13:58.274 --> 0:14:01.634 royal event and it seemed very fitting. I don't know 0:14:01.674 --> 0:14:03.474 who paid for that, but it seemed very fitting. And 0:14:03.514 --> 0:14:05.554 I watched it on television and was very moved. And 0:14:05.594 --> 0:14:08.394 it's kind of I don't know, it's really interesting in 0:14:08.434 --> 0:14:10.874 that status in death and who turns up and all that. 0:14:10.954 --> 0:14:12.394 We're very interested in it. 0:14:12.434 --> 0:14:14.554 I feel like I want to ask you, Jesse, because 0:14:14.634 --> 0:14:17.914 you know Fred Hollows. We can all agree former prisoner 0:14:17.954 --> 0:14:21.154 of war. Yes, but you raise a really interesting edge case, 0:14:21.154 --> 0:14:24.154 which is prime ministers because on the one hand service, 0:14:24.274 --> 0:14:27.594 on the other hand, enrichment for that service in many ways, 0:14:27.754 --> 0:14:31.234 either because they receive a generous salary while they're in office, 0:14:31.234 --> 0:14:32.994 but also after they've been in office, there are all 0:14:33.034 --> 0:14:35.834 sorts of business opportunities for former prime ministers. So what 0:14:35.834 --> 0:14:37.514 do you think do you think prime ministers should get 0:14:37.554 --> 0:14:38.154 a state funeral? 0:14:38.474 --> 0:14:42.714 I understand why they do, and because their legacy is 0:14:42.794 --> 0:14:47.154 so tied up with the lives of Australians and what 0:14:47.314 --> 0:14:49.034 they did, and I guess that they do say it 0:14:49.114 --> 0:14:51.634 as a role of service. I mean, there are a 0:14:51.674 --> 0:14:54.074 lot of people who have roles of service that don't 0:14:54.194 --> 0:14:56.274 receive that monetary reward. 0:14:56.794 --> 0:14:57.434 But I guess it. 0:14:57.394 --> 0:14:59.754 Comes down to who chooses who has a state funeral, 0:14:59.914 --> 0:15:03.394 and if it's politicians, if it's often the Prime Minister 0:15:03.714 --> 0:15:04.354 or the Premier. 0:15:05.314 --> 0:15:07.514 They know these people personally. 0:15:07.314 --> 0:15:10.674 Right, and like they see this as and even I'm 0:15:10.674 --> 0:15:13.554 thinking of like Queen Elizabeth right, So many people wanted 0:15:13.594 --> 0:15:18.154 to go and show their support to the family and 0:15:18.834 --> 0:15:22.834 have this kind of collective moment of mourning for that loss, 0:15:23.714 --> 0:15:26.794 which I kind of appreciate as well. But I remember 0:15:26.914 --> 0:15:31.194 feeling really uncomfortable around the time of George Pell's death 0:15:31.314 --> 0:15:34.954 because state funeral a few years before totally would have 0:15:34.994 --> 0:15:38.874 been on the cards. But it was Daniel Andrews, I think, 0:15:39.194 --> 0:15:42.114 who came out the Victorian premier and said that would 0:15:42.154 --> 0:15:44.314 be so distressing to his victims. And it was a 0:15:44.354 --> 0:15:47.234 private ceremony. There were still people who showed up and protested. 0:15:48.074 --> 0:15:50.514 But whether or not you accept it is interesting because 0:15:50.794 --> 0:15:53.154 there's not a person. You go through John Laws's life, 0:15:53.194 --> 0:15:55.314 you even go through Fred Hollows's life, right, and there 0:15:55.354 --> 0:15:58.634 are moments where you go probably didn't age too well 0:15:58.874 --> 0:16:02.634 those comments that they made twenty thirty years ago. And 0:16:02.674 --> 0:16:09.314 when it does become everyone's business, then everyone discussing whether 0:16:09.354 --> 0:16:12.554 that person was a morally pure person is something I 0:16:12.554 --> 0:16:14.594 don't think anyone wants to do in the days after 0:16:14.634 --> 0:16:17.994 someone dies, like I'd feel for John Laws's family, I 0:16:18.034 --> 0:16:21.474 feel for Graham Richardson's family. Death is a is something 0:16:21.514 --> 0:16:24.274 that affects those closest to them, and I kind of 0:16:24.314 --> 0:16:25.434 hate the way that we all go. 0:16:26.314 --> 0:16:28.354 But if you're going to accept it. It's the opposite 0:16:28.394 --> 0:16:31.634 of private morning, It's the opposite. Yeah. So I'm sure 0:16:31.634 --> 0:16:34.434 that very many people who have big public memorials like 0:16:34.474 --> 0:16:38.714 this probably also have a private family one. And I 0:16:38.794 --> 0:16:40.434 kind of think that if you're going to accept a 0:16:40.554 --> 0:16:43.914 state funeral and taxpayers dollars and have it on the television, 0:16:44.274 --> 0:16:47.394 then you've got to expect a little bit of analysis. 0:16:47.874 --> 0:16:50.314 I was actually a bit surprised. I have to admit 0:16:50.394 --> 0:16:54.354 that Albow, who's normally so good at reading the national mood, 0:16:54.754 --> 0:16:57.034 did immediately jump in and say there was going to 0:16:57.034 --> 0:17:00.754 be a state funeral for Richardson, because, look, John Laws, 0:17:01.034 --> 0:17:03.914 no arguing with the fact that that guy was beloved 0:17:04.154 --> 0:17:08.154 by so many people, and I'm sure all grahe Richardson's 0:17:08.154 --> 0:17:10.793 passing is mourned by a lot of people within the 0:17:10.874 --> 0:17:13.714 labor parties, certainly by his family, by people who loved 0:17:13.794 --> 0:17:16.513 him and cared for him. But is he beloved in 0:17:16.554 --> 0:17:19.273 the same way as John Laws. I think that's a 0:17:19.354 --> 0:17:21.033 much more debatable question, and in. 0:17:20.914 --> 0:17:24.234 Fact, in terms of labor politics, you'd argue it's a 0:17:24.234 --> 0:17:27.594 bad look. Like you almost it's on the nose to 0:17:27.754 --> 0:17:31.554 even associate yourself with someone who the history of corruption 0:17:31.634 --> 0:17:33.834 and all that kind of stuff. You just go, this 0:17:33.994 --> 0:17:35.834 isn't what labor politics represents. 0:17:35.994 --> 0:17:37.554 And so then that gets really uncomfortable. 0:17:37.594 --> 0:17:39.474 And I know I'm arguing against myself a little bit, 0:17:39.514 --> 0:17:42.074 because Richardson did a lot of things that were really 0:17:42.114 --> 0:17:45.114 ahead of their time and which helped Australia move forward 0:17:45.194 --> 0:17:48.994 as a nation. For instance, his work on environmental regulations 0:17:49.034 --> 0:17:51.594 in the eighties was really groundbreaking and helped us to 0:17:51.594 --> 0:17:54.154 protect our natural environment at a time when people weren't 0:17:54.154 --> 0:17:57.434 even really thinking about that. But I do feel uncomfortable 0:17:57.474 --> 0:18:03.434 about someone who's so clearly sought personal financial enrichment from 0:18:03.474 --> 0:18:06.273 the service that he gave to this country getting his 0:18:06.354 --> 0:18:08.354 funeral paid for or by the state. I do feel 0:18:08.434 --> 0:18:11.154 uncomfortable about it, and I'm surprised that Albanezi went out 0:18:11.154 --> 0:18:14.914 on that limb that way. In a moment, I want 0:18:14.914 --> 0:18:26.434 to know why millennials aren't having affairs speak for yourself, Familia. Look, 0:18:26.514 --> 0:18:29.833 I regret to inform you that millennials have killed the affair. 0:18:29.954 --> 0:18:33.114 And Holly, I know that as a cool genexa you're 0:18:33.314 --> 0:18:38.434 rolling your eyes our puritanical, boring way. But let me 0:18:38.474 --> 0:18:41.674 get into why I should be French. I should be French. 0:18:42.154 --> 0:18:44.754 Where is your cigarette right now? That was a joke. 0:18:45.394 --> 0:18:48.834 According to an article in the Atlantic by Olga Kazan, 0:18:49.434 --> 0:18:52.354 Americans over fifty five are much more likely to have 0:18:52.394 --> 0:18:55.114 an affair than Americans under fifty five. And before you 0:18:55.154 --> 0:18:57.833 come at me with why you citing American statistics, it's 0:18:57.874 --> 0:19:00.954 because Australians are not replying to a stranger who calls 0:19:00.994 --> 0:19:03.234 them on the phone asking them if they are having 0:19:03.274 --> 0:19:03.714 an affair. 0:19:04.034 --> 0:19:06.994 Americans are offering that. 0:19:07.154 --> 0:19:11.434 I think I could not find a similar survey of Australia. Sorry, 0:19:11.554 --> 0:19:14.074 are you my wife? Now? It might be that people 0:19:14.114 --> 0:19:17.434 over fifty five have simply been married for longer, yes, 0:19:17.474 --> 0:19:21.354 and getting a bit bored in the relationship. But there 0:19:21.474 --> 0:19:24.074 is some other evidence that millennials are kind of remaking 0:19:24.114 --> 0:19:26.234 marriage into their own image. And here are some of 0:19:26.274 --> 0:19:29.474 them and Jodally Millennials report to Kauz, aren't that they 0:19:29.594 --> 0:19:32.594 don't know people having affairs? And that's true in my life, 0:19:32.674 --> 0:19:36.314 I don't know people having affairs at all. No comment 0:19:36.474 --> 0:19:41.234 now again, because I am young in holy okay, I'm 0:19:41.234 --> 0:19:46.994 just going to throw to you. 0:19:45.154 --> 0:19:47.033 That isn't what I think. It's just I was just 0:19:47.074 --> 0:19:49.474 no comment on the whole Do I know anyone is 0:19:49.474 --> 0:19:50.553 having an affair like? 0:19:50.634 --> 0:19:53.553 I can't answer that, But do you think that this 0:19:53.714 --> 0:19:55.874 is just because millennials haven't been married for long enough, 0:19:55.954 --> 0:19:57.234 or is there something new here? 0:19:57.554 --> 0:19:59.994