1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:21,073 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast. Welcome to 2 00:00:21,154 --> 00:00:24,794 Speaker 1: Parenting out Loud. We are not like other parenting podcasts. Okay, 3 00:00:24,874 --> 00:00:26,914 Speaker 1: We're not here to tell you how to parent. Instead, 4 00:00:26,914 --> 00:00:30,234 Speaker 1: we kind of look at parenting culture and we try 5 00:00:30,274 --> 00:00:32,434 Speaker 1: to make sense of the trends that are out there 6 00:00:32,634 --> 00:00:35,354 Speaker 1: and talk about why we're seeing it and what it 7 00:00:35,394 --> 00:00:39,394 Speaker 1: says about parenting these days. I'm Monique Bowley, I'm Stacy. 8 00:00:39,074 --> 00:00:41,913 Speaker 2: Hicks, and I am Luca Levine. 9 00:00:42,153 --> 00:00:44,833 Speaker 3: I'm not Amelia less Now, I'm not Amelia Lester. If 10 00:00:44,833 --> 00:00:46,314 Speaker 3: you don't know my voice, I've been on this show 11 00:00:46,354 --> 00:00:48,593 Speaker 3: once before. I have a two and a half year 12 00:00:48,593 --> 00:00:50,394 Speaker 3: old and twins on the way. 13 00:00:50,553 --> 00:00:53,354 Speaker 1: Coming up on today's show, Claire Danes and the feeling 14 00:00:53,473 --> 00:00:56,353 Speaker 1: that you are not allowed to have about being pregnant. 15 00:00:56,474 --> 00:00:59,114 Speaker 2: The cleaning hack to make you feel more relaxed. 16 00:00:58,794 --> 00:01:01,993 Speaker 4: At home, and there's these viral birth affirmations that are 17 00:01:01,994 --> 00:01:04,314 Speaker 4: going around and even if you've never had a kid 18 00:01:04,354 --> 00:01:06,434 Speaker 4: before or are never planning to have a kid again, 19 00:01:06,914 --> 00:01:10,634 Speaker 4: you will love these, I promise. But first I need 20 00:01:10,674 --> 00:01:11,874 Speaker 4: to talk about Jacob Alordie. 21 00:01:11,954 --> 00:01:15,394 Speaker 1: You have to say like this, Jacob Helloa load a 22 00:01:15,474 --> 00:01:17,874 Speaker 1: lot because he's so hot. 23 00:01:18,594 --> 00:01:22,114 Speaker 4: He is on what I feel is his four hundred 24 00:01:22,154 --> 00:01:25,274 Speaker 4: and fifty second red carpet for Wuthering Heights. If you're 25 00:01:25,314 --> 00:01:28,274 Speaker 4: not as chronically online as I am, every day there's 26 00:01:28,314 --> 00:01:31,114 Speaker 4: new photos of that man in a nondescript black suit 27 00:01:31,474 --> 00:01:33,514 Speaker 4: on a red carpet next to Margot Robbie. 28 00:01:33,674 --> 00:01:37,754 Speaker 1: Was he Sultburn, Saltburn, Saltburn guy. 29 00:01:37,794 --> 00:01:40,034 Speaker 4: He has done very well for himself for a boy 30 00:01:40,034 --> 00:01:41,074 Speaker 4: from Brizzy and. 31 00:01:41,034 --> 00:01:43,954 Speaker 2: He is a good looks he is, isn't he? 32 00:01:44,474 --> 00:01:47,994 Speaker 4: This week this footage went around of him on this 33 00:01:48,114 --> 00:01:52,034 Speaker 4: red carpet with his mum. Melissa Bussel shared this footage. 34 00:01:52,074 --> 00:01:53,594 Speaker 4: He was about to stand in front of the wall 35 00:01:53,634 --> 00:01:56,474 Speaker 4: of photographers and get photos as they do, and just 36 00:01:56,514 --> 00:01:58,314 Speaker 4: before he did it, he did a little double take 37 00:01:58,394 --> 00:02:00,754 Speaker 4: back to his mum, pulled the chewing gum out of 38 00:02:00,754 --> 00:02:03,634 Speaker 4: his mouth, and without skipping a beat, she just chucked 39 00:02:03,634 --> 00:02:05,634 Speaker 4: a hand out in front of him, grabbed it in 40 00:02:05,674 --> 00:02:07,754 Speaker 4: a palm and just carried on. 41 00:02:07,834 --> 00:02:08,914 Speaker 1: And he went and posed. 42 00:02:09,034 --> 00:02:12,993 Speaker 4: And now she's standing there with his disgusting old Wrigley's 43 00:02:13,114 --> 00:02:16,834 Speaker 4: in her hand, and I just thought, like a mom's 44 00:02:16,874 --> 00:02:18,073 Speaker 4: work is never done right. 45 00:02:18,314 --> 00:02:20,274 Speaker 1: You just revert back to being a kid when your 46 00:02:20,314 --> 00:02:24,194 Speaker 1: mum is around. Did you see her say something to him? 47 00:02:24,314 --> 00:02:27,154 Speaker 1: Was it her that was like Jacob Jacob the Chiwi? 48 00:02:27,514 --> 00:02:29,554 Speaker 4: I feel like maybe it was like a publicist on 49 00:02:29,594 --> 00:02:31,674 Speaker 4: the side, but she gave him this look that was 50 00:02:31,714 --> 00:02:33,514 Speaker 4: like blink and your mis set, where she looked at 51 00:02:33,594 --> 00:02:35,514 Speaker 4: him like I'm going to kill you, but also, of 52 00:02:35,514 --> 00:02:36,474 Speaker 4: course I'm gonna take it. 53 00:02:36,474 --> 00:02:38,714 Speaker 1: I'm not going to make anyone else do this. Takes 54 00:02:38,754 --> 00:02:39,634 Speaker 1: it and just carries on. 55 00:02:39,754 --> 00:02:41,874 Speaker 4: They were so lucky that they even caught this moment 56 00:02:42,034 --> 00:02:44,154 Speaker 4: because no one else would have seen it. But I 57 00:02:44,234 --> 00:02:46,074 Speaker 4: just thought it was great, Like, you're never two grown 58 00:02:46,154 --> 00:02:47,954 Speaker 4: up to do gross things to your mom. 59 00:02:48,034 --> 00:02:48,394 Speaker 5: I don't know. 60 00:02:48,474 --> 00:02:49,633 Speaker 2: I don't even think that's that bad. 61 00:02:49,714 --> 00:02:50,994 Speaker 3: Do you think I have an issue where I don't 62 00:02:50,994 --> 00:02:53,434 Speaker 3: have boundaries with people when I'm on my red carpets? 63 00:02:53,554 --> 00:02:55,794 Speaker 1: Yes, I would often say. 64 00:02:55,594 --> 00:03:00,194 Speaker 3: A problem doing that to a publicist, a friend, yeah, 65 00:03:00,234 --> 00:03:03,634 Speaker 3: a colleague, Like I don't think used gum is that gross? 66 00:03:03,714 --> 00:03:05,354 Speaker 2: Like especially was it in a tissue? 67 00:03:05,394 --> 00:03:07,994 Speaker 4: Well, you don't think that used floss is that gross either? 68 00:03:08,074 --> 00:03:10,793 Speaker 4: So I feel like we've established your boundaries there. 69 00:03:10,834 --> 00:03:12,874 Speaker 2: It does seem that I'm the problem, but I did. 70 00:03:12,714 --> 00:03:14,194 Speaker 4: Think about this, and I was like, I think I 71 00:03:14,274 --> 00:03:17,233 Speaker 4: probably would have found this gross pre kid, but now 72 00:03:17,234 --> 00:03:19,154 Speaker 4: I feel like you just adjust your boundaries of what 73 00:03:19,194 --> 00:03:21,514 Speaker 4: you think is gross, Like you just do things for 74 00:03:21,554 --> 00:03:22,353 Speaker 4: your kids. 75 00:03:22,114 --> 00:03:23,594 Speaker 1: Like if they vomit. 76 00:03:23,674 --> 00:03:25,874 Speaker 4: You just don't actually think it's as disgusting as what 77 00:03:25,914 --> 00:03:28,834 Speaker 4: you would have before. Like, I just think we would 78 00:03:28,874 --> 00:03:31,074 Speaker 4: do anything for them, right, even if they're a thirty 79 00:03:31,074 --> 00:03:32,633 Speaker 4: five year old Golden Globe nominee. 80 00:03:32,674 --> 00:03:34,954 Speaker 1: Why did the internet hate this? Because all the restric 81 00:03:35,034 --> 00:03:38,314 Speaker 1: I saw was like, ill, well, that's disgusting. But I 82 00:03:38,354 --> 00:03:40,714 Speaker 1: had the same response as both of you. I quite 83 00:03:40,794 --> 00:03:43,714 Speaker 1: liked how intimate it was. I thought it was lovely. Yeah, 84 00:03:43,714 --> 00:03:45,594 Speaker 1: I mean, he's just a boy from Freezy who loves 85 00:03:45,594 --> 00:03:48,754 Speaker 1: his mum. I also have a formal apology to every 86 00:03:48,954 --> 00:03:51,874 Speaker 1: basketball coach I ever had. I did that every game. 87 00:03:51,954 --> 00:03:53,554 Speaker 1: I took my chewy out and gave it to my coach. 88 00:03:53,674 --> 00:03:56,074 Speaker 1: Not even a blood relative, just the coach just having 89 00:03:56,114 --> 00:03:58,874 Speaker 1: my hot little chewy in their hand. So I'm really sorry. 90 00:03:58,954 --> 00:04:00,634 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was such an offensive thing to do. 91 00:04:00,914 --> 00:04:03,074 Speaker 3: Sorry, Monsie, I'm just going to ditch my chewy. Sorry, 92 00:04:03,154 --> 00:04:05,074 Speaker 3: give me two sex because I'm just I'm chewing into 93 00:04:05,114 --> 00:04:05,354 Speaker 3: the mic. 94 00:04:05,474 --> 00:04:06,794 Speaker 2: I guess this. 95 00:04:06,914 --> 00:04:07,754 Speaker 5: Is what I want to know. 96 00:04:08,594 --> 00:04:13,114 Speaker 4: After that bit, after she closed the palm, where did 97 00:04:13,154 --> 00:04:13,554 Speaker 4: it go? 98 00:04:13,914 --> 00:04:14,194 Speaker 5: I did? 99 00:04:14,274 --> 00:04:15,434 Speaker 2: I that in my mouth for. 100 00:04:15,434 --> 00:04:16,954 Speaker 3: So long, didn't know what to do with it, and 101 00:04:16,954 --> 00:04:18,674 Speaker 3: then I tried to put it, hide it in my gum, 102 00:04:18,873 --> 00:04:19,754 Speaker 3: like up in my gum. 103 00:04:19,794 --> 00:04:21,513 Speaker 2: But then I'm like the camera will I'll look like 104 00:04:21,514 --> 00:04:23,794 Speaker 2: I have a swollen gum. It's on the table. 105 00:04:24,073 --> 00:04:25,393 Speaker 1: Thanks dance, We're all made. 106 00:04:25,594 --> 00:04:29,113 Speaker 2: It's cool. I'm it's nothing Gress. I had no problem 107 00:04:29,154 --> 00:04:30,794 Speaker 2: with that, but I enjoyed how hard you found it. 108 00:04:33,714 --> 00:04:35,273 Speaker 4: The other story I want to bring up with you 109 00:04:35,313 --> 00:04:37,034 Speaker 4: this week that's been doing the rounds. It was one 110 00:04:37,034 --> 00:04:41,154 Speaker 4: from Vox called Generation Dad. How gen zed men are 111 00:04:41,193 --> 00:04:45,433 Speaker 4: surprisingly excited about parenthood. So this piece by Anna North, 112 00:04:45,553 --> 00:04:47,553 Speaker 4: she quotes a few studies that are showing that gen 113 00:04:47,633 --> 00:04:50,073 Speaker 4: zed men, so in that bracket of you know, eighteen 114 00:04:50,113 --> 00:04:53,674 Speaker 4: to twenty nine, are increasingly saying that having children is 115 00:04:53,753 --> 00:04:56,433 Speaker 4: really important to them. And there was one by Pew 116 00:04:56,553 --> 00:04:59,354 Speaker 4: Research Center Pole that found that fifty seven percent of 117 00:04:59,474 --> 00:05:02,474 Speaker 4: men in that age bracket wanted to have kids, compared 118 00:05:02,474 --> 00:05:05,753 Speaker 4: to just forty five percent of women. So this feels 119 00:05:05,753 --> 00:05:09,153 Speaker 4: like it's very much flipped the script. Like it's traditionally 120 00:05:09,154 --> 00:05:11,074 Speaker 4: we're always thinking women are the ones pushing for kids, 121 00:05:11,073 --> 00:05:14,593 Speaker 4: but now there is more men keen than women, and 122 00:05:14,674 --> 00:05:16,633 Speaker 4: I just I kind of did, like I have to admit, 123 00:05:16,674 --> 00:05:18,794 Speaker 4: I roll my eyes a bit and went, you want 124 00:05:18,794 --> 00:05:21,234 Speaker 4: to have a kid, you don't actually want to parent them? 125 00:05:21,953 --> 00:05:24,273 Speaker 4: From everything that's in this, it's saying no, there's like 126 00:05:24,274 --> 00:05:27,674 Speaker 4: a genuine really sincere want to be a father and 127 00:05:27,674 --> 00:05:31,034 Speaker 4: to be really involved with the kids. I just love 128 00:05:31,073 --> 00:05:32,513 Speaker 4: that that has changed. 129 00:05:32,633 --> 00:05:33,073 Speaker 2: I reckon. 130 00:05:33,073 --> 00:05:35,953 Speaker 3: I know why this is because like Hella gen Z 131 00:05:36,113 --> 00:05:40,034 Speaker 3: dad here, late gen Z, no early gen Z, no 132 00:05:40,154 --> 00:05:43,914 Speaker 3: old Gens, old customers still I think I think the 133 00:05:43,993 --> 00:05:46,513 Speaker 3: oldest gener Jerry gen Z. 134 00:05:47,354 --> 00:05:47,793 Speaker 2: I reckon. 135 00:05:47,873 --> 00:05:51,034 Speaker 3: This is dad talk, which is effectively like the dad's 136 00:05:51,073 --> 00:05:54,113 Speaker 3: side of TikTok. And I reckon this because this is 137 00:05:54,193 --> 00:05:55,034 Speaker 3: my algorithm. 138 00:05:55,354 --> 00:05:59,113 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I am not on TikTok. What's dad talk? 139 00:05:59,354 --> 00:06:02,714 Speaker 3: If you haven't seen it, it is these twenty second 140 00:06:03,513 --> 00:06:06,033 Speaker 3: cinematic day in the life. 141 00:06:06,313 --> 00:06:10,034 Speaker 1: Cuts of oh, like dad influences. 142 00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:12,073 Speaker 3: Like here's a morning in my life as a twenty 143 00:06:12,073 --> 00:06:14,914 Speaker 3: five year old dad of a newborn, and so you know, 144 00:06:14,953 --> 00:06:17,874 Speaker 3: it's always like a guy in a beanie with some 145 00:06:17,953 --> 00:06:21,354 Speaker 3: low five beats in the background making a poor of 146 00:06:21,393 --> 00:06:24,953 Speaker 3: a coffee, like strapping the baby into like a beige 147 00:06:25,354 --> 00:06:29,913 Speaker 3: baby beyonn or like fancy Swedish carrier, and like looking 148 00:06:29,953 --> 00:06:32,273 Speaker 3: at the sunrise and like walking the dog at the 149 00:06:32,313 --> 00:06:32,993 Speaker 3: same time. 150 00:06:33,193 --> 00:06:35,513 Speaker 6: Aldi, welcome back to a Wednesday morning. As a stay 151 00:06:35,553 --> 00:06:38,153 Speaker 6: at home dad, our routine really doesn't change morning from morning. 152 00:06:38,354 --> 00:06:40,914 Speaker 6: But let me tell you, sometimes the kids change morning 153 00:06:40,953 --> 00:06:43,914 Speaker 6: for morning. Sometimes they'll be playing really well independently, and 154 00:06:44,034 --> 00:06:45,953 Speaker 6: other times they want to be over my shoulder help 155 00:06:46,034 --> 00:06:48,714 Speaker 6: me with everything in the kitchen. Today they were a 156 00:06:48,753 --> 00:06:50,674 Speaker 6: little bit more independent, so they just listened to their 157 00:06:50,714 --> 00:06:52,634 Speaker 6: tonies and hung it on the couch and played it 158 00:06:52,674 --> 00:06:54,914 Speaker 6: with each other while I kind of got breakfast started. 159 00:06:55,154 --> 00:06:57,514 Speaker 6: And then of course once I was finishing out breakfast, 160 00:06:57,594 --> 00:06:58,354 Speaker 6: they had to help out. 161 00:06:58,474 --> 00:06:59,874 Speaker 2: Sorry to be clear, it's propaganda. 162 00:06:59,993 --> 00:07:04,193 Speaker 3: It's absolutely propaganda, okay, And it makes raising a baby 163 00:07:04,234 --> 00:07:06,873 Speaker 3: look kind of like a skincare routine, Like it's you know, 164 00:07:06,953 --> 00:07:10,394 Speaker 3: like fast cuts, jumpy, and it's like forty five seconds 165 00:07:10,514 --> 00:07:10,834 Speaker 3: do you. 166 00:07:10,874 --> 00:07:12,754 Speaker 1: Fall for it? Like how do you feel watching it? 167 00:07:12,794 --> 00:07:13,114 Speaker 5: Are you like? 168 00:07:13,194 --> 00:07:15,034 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to be that no, I'm like, that's 169 00:07:15,074 --> 00:07:17,394 Speaker 3: a cool video, but it's not real, right, But I 170 00:07:17,434 --> 00:07:19,074 Speaker 3: know that it's not real because I have a two 171 00:07:19,114 --> 00:07:21,194 Speaker 3: and a half year old. I think that if I 172 00:07:21,393 --> 00:07:24,834 Speaker 3: was just a standard gen Z looking at that, I 173 00:07:24,874 --> 00:07:25,394 Speaker 3: would go. 174 00:07:25,514 --> 00:07:27,153 Speaker 2: Doesn't seem too hard, It seems kind of fun. 175 00:07:27,794 --> 00:07:30,874 Speaker 4: Something about the time stamps just makes it feel so satisfying, 176 00:07:30,914 --> 00:07:33,714 Speaker 4: Like it does look like it's very easy and everything's. 177 00:07:33,314 --> 00:07:36,354 Speaker 3: All, you know, like it's it's a story as all 178 00:07:36,393 --> 00:07:38,833 Speaker 3: as time. Like social media shows the highlight reel, not 179 00:07:38,874 --> 00:07:42,273 Speaker 3: the real bits. It doesn't show me spending forty five 180 00:07:42,314 --> 00:07:45,074 Speaker 3: minutes trying to dig out or excavate a you know, 181 00:07:45,274 --> 00:07:48,314 Speaker 3: dried blueberry out of that little crevice between like the 182 00:07:48,354 --> 00:07:51,594 Speaker 3: isofixed lock in the car seat, and like the upholstery 183 00:07:51,594 --> 00:07:54,354 Speaker 3: of the chair, and you know, they don't show that 184 00:07:54,594 --> 00:07:57,033 Speaker 3: sensation of like sitting on a couch and like you 185 00:07:57,074 --> 00:07:59,394 Speaker 3: feel it's wet underneath you, and like is it urine? 186 00:07:59,554 --> 00:08:03,674 Speaker 2: Is it water? I'm too tired to smell it. It 187 00:08:03,834 --> 00:08:04,953 Speaker 2: just looks very realistic. 188 00:08:05,034 --> 00:08:09,033 Speaker 3: But the conclusion that I've come to is that maybe 189 00:08:09,074 --> 00:08:12,874 Speaker 3: that's okay because the fact of the matter is that 190 00:08:13,634 --> 00:08:15,314 Speaker 3: we are globally in a. 191 00:08:15,274 --> 00:08:16,234 Speaker 2: Birth rate crisis. 192 00:08:16,434 --> 00:08:20,194 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, we've hit a record low here in Australia 193 00:08:20,234 --> 00:08:24,593 Speaker 3: where we live of one point five babies per woman 194 00:08:25,114 --> 00:08:28,314 Speaker 3: and the replacement rate is two point one. So that's 195 00:08:28,354 --> 00:08:31,713 Speaker 3: to maintain the current population size, every woman in theory 196 00:08:31,834 --> 00:08:35,394 Speaker 3: needs to have two point one children. Governments have obviously 197 00:08:35,434 --> 00:08:39,714 Speaker 3: tried everything from baby bonuses to tax breaks to childcare rebates, 198 00:08:39,754 --> 00:08:42,034 Speaker 3: Like my little girls just started childcare last week and 199 00:08:42,194 --> 00:08:44,074 Speaker 3: had to go through the whole process here in Australia. 200 00:08:44,394 --> 00:08:46,474 Speaker 3: You can get a rebate depending on what income level 201 00:08:46,474 --> 00:08:49,274 Speaker 3: you're on. But what if TikTok was the answer all along? 202 00:08:49,514 --> 00:08:51,354 Speaker 4: I do think you might be onto something Like some 203 00:08:51,434 --> 00:08:54,114 Speaker 4: of those even slip into my algorithm sometimes and I'm like, 204 00:08:54,754 --> 00:08:56,914 Speaker 4: being a dad looks better than being a mom, Like 205 00:08:56,954 --> 00:08:59,434 Speaker 4: it really does sell you on it, and it really 206 00:08:59,434 --> 00:09:00,074 Speaker 4: does look great. 207 00:09:00,234 --> 00:09:03,794 Speaker 1: But we've seen this before, right, Like TikTok and social 208 00:09:03,834 --> 00:09:06,794 Speaker 1: media can kind of make daggy things cool again. We've 209 00:09:06,794 --> 00:09:08,394 Speaker 1: seen things be rebranded before. 210 00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:10,674 Speaker 3: Right, Yes, so that lots of examples in said the 211 00:09:10,754 --> 00:09:14,394 Speaker 3: last ten years of not only TikTok but social media 212 00:09:14,514 --> 00:09:19,074 Speaker 3: influencing and changing culture. This is just maybe a positive 213 00:09:19,474 --> 00:09:23,874 Speaker 3: influence that TikTok is having in a new generation excited 214 00:09:23,914 --> 00:09:25,234 Speaker 3: to have more babies. 215 00:09:25,394 --> 00:09:28,434 Speaker 4: And if we want men to be more involved, it 216 00:09:28,514 --> 00:09:31,274 Speaker 4: is half the battle that they would be excited about it, obviously, 217 00:09:31,354 --> 00:09:33,074 Speaker 4: So I think this is a great thing that dad's 218 00:09:33,114 --> 00:09:33,754 Speaker 4: a key to do this. 219 00:09:34,074 --> 00:09:35,834 Speaker 1: It might be one part of it, the TikTok might 220 00:09:35,874 --> 00:09:38,554 Speaker 1: be one part, but there's probably other pressures at play 221 00:09:38,594 --> 00:09:41,274 Speaker 1: here and reasons why this is happening, And I, for one, 222 00:09:41,754 --> 00:09:44,394 Speaker 1: am very into it. I'm very into this flipping the script. 223 00:09:44,434 --> 00:09:48,234 Speaker 1: I think we are seeing a cultural shift with dads. 224 00:09:48,274 --> 00:09:51,514 Speaker 1: We've seen it with Bandit on Bluey, We've seen it 225 00:09:51,674 --> 00:09:54,594 Speaker 1: in the way that masculinity is having a bit of 226 00:09:54,634 --> 00:09:57,314 Speaker 1: a glow up, and there's no one way to be 227 00:09:57,514 --> 00:10:01,674 Speaker 1: a man anymore. And so I think I welcome dads 228 00:10:01,754 --> 00:10:03,754 Speaker 1: wanting to be fathest. But I also wonder if it's 229 00:10:03,754 --> 00:10:08,714 Speaker 1: because of like cost of pressures. The economy is unstable. 230 00:10:09,314 --> 00:10:11,794 Speaker 1: You can't have a job for life anymore, like the 231 00:10:11,794 --> 00:10:14,514 Speaker 1: employment market's very unstable, and so we're seeing a generation 232 00:10:15,354 --> 00:10:18,274 Speaker 1: search for meaning in other ways. And maybe it's that 233 00:10:18,914 --> 00:10:21,594 Speaker 1: you know, a generation ago you would understand that your 234 00:10:21,674 --> 00:10:23,474 Speaker 1: role as a man would be to God and provide 235 00:10:23,834 --> 00:10:26,274 Speaker 1: for your family, but when that part's taken away from 236 00:10:26,354 --> 00:10:29,434 Speaker 1: you from like economic pressures, geopolitical pressures, whatever it is, 237 00:10:29,954 --> 00:10:32,434 Speaker 1: We're seeing a generation trying to find meaning in other ways, 238 00:10:32,474 --> 00:10:35,754 Speaker 1: whether it's travel or other big life stuff. So maybe 239 00:10:35,754 --> 00:10:38,754 Speaker 1: it's that as well that people are saying, I'm going 240 00:10:38,834 --> 00:10:41,034 Speaker 1: to get out of the rat race and find meaning 241 00:10:41,194 --> 00:10:43,554 Speaker 1: in things and there a lot of people would say 242 00:10:44,194 --> 00:10:46,154 Speaker 1: having a child is a great way to find meaning 243 00:10:46,314 --> 00:10:50,514 Speaker 1: in your life. So this week, Claire Danes went on 244 00:10:51,074 --> 00:10:54,114 Speaker 1: Good Hang with Amy Poplar. Now, this is a very 245 00:10:54,274 --> 00:10:59,034 Speaker 1: popular podcast, It has downloads in the millions, and she 246 00:10:59,234 --> 00:11:04,074 Speaker 1: casually dropped maybe halfway through that when she found out 247 00:11:04,154 --> 00:11:08,074 Speaker 1: she was pregnant at forty four. She absolutely lost it. 248 00:11:08,114 --> 00:11:08,914 Speaker 1: Here's what she said. 249 00:11:09,514 --> 00:11:12,594 Speaker 2: So people don't know you had pregnancy a few years ago. 250 00:11:12,834 --> 00:11:16,994 Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of a surprise. Wo whoa out of the blue? 251 00:11:17,234 --> 00:11:18,234 Speaker 2: That whoa? 252 00:11:18,354 --> 00:11:21,154 Speaker 1: Did you burst into tears like, oh no, I have to. 253 00:11:21,074 --> 00:11:21,834 Speaker 2: Be pregnant again? 254 00:11:21,914 --> 00:11:22,234 Speaker 7: Totally? 255 00:11:22,394 --> 00:11:25,354 Speaker 3: Yeah, I called my my lbgy I knew, like in 256 00:11:25,434 --> 00:11:26,994 Speaker 3: convulsive tears. 257 00:11:27,314 --> 00:11:32,954 Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, no, it was it was a pure like 258 00:11:33,074 --> 00:11:36,194 Speaker 7: it was all meltdown. None of this was by design. 259 00:11:37,394 --> 00:11:40,074 Speaker 7: But yeah, I didn't know it was physically possible. I 260 00:11:40,114 --> 00:11:44,514 Speaker 7: was forty four and it just was so unlikely. And 261 00:11:44,554 --> 00:11:46,914 Speaker 7: then first thing in the morning hit the CBS and 262 00:11:46,954 --> 00:11:49,994 Speaker 7: it was just like bold, it was like half blocks, 263 00:11:50,034 --> 00:11:53,434 Speaker 7: you know, yeah, pregnant, and I burst into tears. 264 00:11:53,754 --> 00:11:55,594 Speaker 1: Yea, I love her. It's so real. 265 00:11:55,954 --> 00:11:58,514 Speaker 3: Claire Danes is always crying. In my mind, Claar Dane's 266 00:11:58,514 --> 00:12:00,674 Speaker 3: is purely crying. Did any of you guys watch Homeland, 267 00:12:00,874 --> 00:12:03,994 Speaker 3: Like in shows exclusively, she cries her face. If I'm 268 00:12:04,034 --> 00:12:07,034 Speaker 3: picturing Claid Dane, she's she's got a good crying face. 269 00:12:07,634 --> 00:12:10,954 Speaker 3: But she's always crying. Every character she plays in every. 270 00:12:10,794 --> 00:12:13,074 Speaker 1: Show, Well, that's because she's drawing on this life. 271 00:12:13,114 --> 00:12:15,354 Speaker 2: Maybe it was filmed after this life. 272 00:12:15,474 --> 00:12:19,154 Speaker 1: Maybe it was. The whole interview is great. She's really lovable, 273 00:12:19,274 --> 00:12:21,714 Speaker 1: she's really honest. But this really stuck out to me 274 00:12:21,794 --> 00:12:26,634 Speaker 1: because this wasn't what we normally hear when it comes 275 00:12:26,634 --> 00:12:29,394 Speaker 1: to retric around mums talking about pregnancy. This was not 276 00:12:29,994 --> 00:12:34,594 Speaker 1: I'm a gorgeous, glowing fertility goddess. This was very much 277 00:12:34,954 --> 00:12:39,154 Speaker 1: panic and grief and disbelief. And so of course the 278 00:12:39,194 --> 00:12:45,194 Speaker 1: headlines followed, so people had Claire danes recalls meltdown after 279 00:12:45,274 --> 00:12:49,914 Speaker 1: learning she was pregnant with baby number three, called ob 280 00:12:50,154 --> 00:12:54,834 Speaker 1: gyn in convulsive tears. Now where the story gets interesting. 281 00:12:54,874 --> 00:12:57,314 Speaker 1: Apart from that layer of this is not what we 282 00:12:57,474 --> 00:13:01,154 Speaker 1: generally hear from mums, and especially not celebrity mums in 283 00:13:01,194 --> 00:13:04,874 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, what's interesting is how people reacted. And 284 00:13:04,954 --> 00:13:08,194 Speaker 1: you basically had two camps immediately. So on one side 285 00:13:08,234 --> 00:13:11,554 Speaker 1: were people saying, oh God, I love her, I love 286 00:13:11,594 --> 00:13:14,874 Speaker 1: this honesty. I've been there, I've done that. I was 287 00:13:14,914 --> 00:13:17,474 Speaker 1: forty four as well. I cried to I get it, 288 00:13:17,554 --> 00:13:21,994 Speaker 1: I get it. The other camp comes out with why 289 00:13:21,994 --> 00:13:27,234 Speaker 1: would you share something so intimate? Your child might hear 290 00:13:27,314 --> 00:13:33,194 Speaker 1: this someday and be completely heartbroken, and some things should 291 00:13:33,194 --> 00:13:38,194 Speaker 1: stay private. What do you think should some feelings about 292 00:13:38,354 --> 00:13:41,994 Speaker 1: becoming a parent stay in the drafts folder. 293 00:13:42,154 --> 00:13:45,994 Speaker 3: If you're a celebrity actress. Maybe I was selfishly thinking 294 00:13:46,034 --> 00:13:49,274 Speaker 3: about my own experience when I found out that we 295 00:13:49,274 --> 00:13:52,594 Speaker 3: were having twins, right, so a little bit different to 296 00:13:52,714 --> 00:13:56,154 Speaker 3: what happened with Claire Danes, because my wife Jesse and 297 00:13:56,194 --> 00:14:00,914 Speaker 3: I were trying, weren't trying for trying, and so I 298 00:14:00,954 --> 00:14:04,034 Speaker 3: remember the day when she called and told me she 299 00:14:04,074 --> 00:14:07,114 Speaker 3: was going to get a scan and I was having 300 00:14:07,394 --> 00:14:09,514 Speaker 3: to day. It was raining awful day at work, and 301 00:14:09,554 --> 00:14:11,514 Speaker 3: then Jesse calls me and she goes so. 302 00:14:12,954 --> 00:14:13,354 Speaker 2: The scan. 303 00:14:14,154 --> 00:14:18,474 Speaker 3: There are two heartbeats, and she had excitement and nervousness 304 00:14:18,474 --> 00:14:22,714 Speaker 3: of course in her voice. But the immediate feeling that 305 00:14:22,834 --> 00:14:26,394 Speaker 3: I felt was exactly what Claire Danes described then. It 306 00:14:26,474 --> 00:14:29,714 Speaker 3: was like a grief. And I've since like unpacked that 307 00:14:29,914 --> 00:14:32,314 Speaker 3: and sort of dug into that a little bit more. 308 00:14:32,834 --> 00:14:35,114 Speaker 3: But obviously I'm not clear Danes. 309 00:14:34,714 --> 00:14:37,594 Speaker 4: But was that because it wasn't what you thought you 310 00:14:37,634 --> 00:14:40,274 Speaker 4: were going to have? Like is that because you kind 311 00:14:40,274 --> 00:14:41,954 Speaker 4: of had an image in your head of how things 312 00:14:41,954 --> 00:14:44,714 Speaker 4: were going to go? Or was it the thought of 313 00:14:45,234 --> 00:14:46,754 Speaker 4: risk that comes with. 314 00:14:46,674 --> 00:14:49,514 Speaker 2: That It wasn't the risk. It was selfish. 315 00:14:49,874 --> 00:14:53,794 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really selfish in that it was about me. 316 00:14:54,554 --> 00:14:58,554 Speaker 3: I've since learned about this archetype from Carl Jung, who's 317 00:14:58,554 --> 00:15:01,274 Speaker 3: a philosopher. I didn't find this out myself. I spoke 318 00:15:01,314 --> 00:15:05,474 Speaker 3: with a psychologist who who helped me figure this this out. 319 00:15:05,994 --> 00:15:10,314 Speaker 3: But there's this term called poer eternals, which is Latin 320 00:15:10,514 --> 00:15:14,794 Speaker 3: for the eternal boy, and it's this Carl Jung archetype 321 00:15:14,874 --> 00:15:18,954 Speaker 3: describing like an adult whose emotional life and sort of 322 00:15:18,954 --> 00:15:22,194 Speaker 3: whose hopes and dreams are sort of at this adolescent 323 00:15:22,394 --> 00:15:26,394 Speaker 3: or you know, young twenties, like young man level, and 324 00:15:26,434 --> 00:15:29,994 Speaker 3: he wants to keep all his future paths open and 325 00:15:30,074 --> 00:15:32,434 Speaker 3: doesn't want the death of that sort of young man 326 00:15:32,514 --> 00:15:36,434 Speaker 3: who has so much potential and possibility in front of him. 327 00:15:36,634 --> 00:15:39,154 Speaker 3: That's the pooer atturnus. And for me finding out that 328 00:15:39,154 --> 00:15:42,154 Speaker 3: I was having twins, because after having one child, right, 329 00:15:42,234 --> 00:15:43,674 Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, this is kind of a little 330 00:15:43,674 --> 00:15:46,434 Speaker 3: bit manageable. Maybe two would be manageable, but like three 331 00:15:46,474 --> 00:15:49,194 Speaker 3: kids under three and twins is like fuck that, everything 332 00:15:49,194 --> 00:15:51,554 Speaker 3: out the window, chaos. I'm not leaving my house or 333 00:15:51,554 --> 00:15:54,234 Speaker 3: my suburb for ten years, and I've accepted that now, 334 00:15:54,714 --> 00:15:56,674 Speaker 3: but at the time it felt like a death. So 335 00:15:56,754 --> 00:16:01,314 Speaker 3: it was a sort of selfish grief. I guess that 336 00:16:01,674 --> 00:16:04,114 Speaker 3: life isn't going to turn out quite how I planned. 337 00:16:04,394 --> 00:16:07,754 Speaker 1: It's so interesting examining my reaction to U tell that story, 338 00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:11,914 Speaker 1: because as you were saying that, I was thinking, oh 339 00:16:11,954 --> 00:16:14,274 Speaker 1: my god, why are you doing? Do not say this 340 00:16:14,514 --> 00:16:16,714 Speaker 1: like there will be people listening to this, Luka, who 341 00:16:16,754 --> 00:16:20,234 Speaker 1: are desperate to be pregnant, who want nothing more than 342 00:16:20,234 --> 00:16:24,194 Speaker 1: more children, who would give anything to have two heartbeats 343 00:16:24,194 --> 00:16:28,594 Speaker 1: in a belly. And that's interesting to me because it 344 00:16:28,674 --> 00:16:32,554 Speaker 1: speaks to the pressure of how people are expected to 345 00:16:32,594 --> 00:16:36,794 Speaker 1: behave when they get news of life, and talking about 346 00:16:36,874 --> 00:16:40,274 Speaker 1: grief around having a child is not a topic we 347 00:16:40,394 --> 00:16:43,794 Speaker 1: ever talk about. It's like the last taboo of having 348 00:16:43,874 --> 00:16:45,994 Speaker 1: a child, and you're Luke Levine talking about it on 349 00:16:46,034 --> 00:16:49,794 Speaker 1: a parenting podcast. This is Claire Danes, celebrity talking about 350 00:16:49,794 --> 00:16:53,794 Speaker 1: it on a podcast with millions of listeners. I think 351 00:16:53,794 --> 00:16:57,754 Speaker 1: it's about do we want motherhood and parenthood to stay 352 00:16:57,834 --> 00:16:59,834 Speaker 1: kind of in this zone of like it's very neat, 353 00:16:59,874 --> 00:17:02,994 Speaker 1: and it's very we should be grateful, it should be joyful, 354 00:17:03,834 --> 00:17:06,273 Speaker 1: and how do we feel when the narrative is not 355 00:17:06,394 --> 00:17:09,353 Speaker 1: that and it's uncomfortable? Listening to you say that was 356 00:17:09,354 --> 00:17:11,273 Speaker 1: really uncomfortable for me, what about you, Stacy. 357 00:17:11,354 --> 00:17:14,353 Speaker 4: But I think that's why it's good that she's saying that, 358 00:17:14,394 --> 00:17:17,033 Speaker 4: because I think the thing that people are missing is 359 00:17:17,034 --> 00:17:19,234 Speaker 4: that it is a recalibration of what your life is 360 00:17:19,274 --> 00:17:20,754 Speaker 4: about to look like. 361 00:17:20,754 --> 00:17:21,394 Speaker 1: Like it's the. 362 00:17:21,354 --> 00:17:25,394 Speaker 4: Same way people were very funny about gender disappointment a 363 00:17:25,394 --> 00:17:27,354 Speaker 4: couple of years ago, like no one would have ever 364 00:17:27,514 --> 00:17:30,194 Speaker 4: really said to other people I really didn't want this 365 00:17:30,274 --> 00:17:31,914 Speaker 4: boy or I really didn't want this girl. 366 00:17:31,914 --> 00:17:33,313 Speaker 1: I wanted it to be the opposite. 367 00:17:33,474 --> 00:17:35,594 Speaker 4: And I feel like now that that's been so normalized, 368 00:17:35,634 --> 00:17:37,994 Speaker 4: lots of people have spoken about that, that has moved 369 00:17:38,034 --> 00:17:40,634 Speaker 4: the dial a bit into acceptance of yeah, like, it 370 00:17:40,674 --> 00:17:42,514 Speaker 4: will take you a little bit of time to adjust 371 00:17:42,554 --> 00:17:45,754 Speaker 4: to that. So I love actually when people say this stuff, 372 00:17:45,754 --> 00:17:48,513 Speaker 4: because if you can't see someone else feeling it, then 373 00:17:48,594 --> 00:17:51,234 Speaker 4: you just think you're an asshole for feeling it, and 374 00:17:51,274 --> 00:17:53,314 Speaker 4: that just goes around and around in circles. I love 375 00:17:53,354 --> 00:17:55,834 Speaker 4: when people say, yeah, that's not what I had in mind, 376 00:17:55,874 --> 00:17:57,074 Speaker 4: that's not what I had planned. 377 00:17:57,194 --> 00:17:57,954 Speaker 2: You know what it is. 378 00:17:58,354 --> 00:18:01,914 Speaker 3: It's the exact moment that your life doesn't become about 379 00:18:01,994 --> 00:18:02,594 Speaker 3: you anymore. 380 00:18:02,674 --> 00:18:03,914 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's. 381 00:18:03,794 --> 00:18:07,513 Speaker 3: The exact moment that your life becomes about foss during 382 00:18:07,754 --> 00:18:11,833 Speaker 3: and growing someone else. For some people, that happens at 383 00:18:11,834 --> 00:18:14,274 Speaker 3: a time that they're ready to make that change, and 384 00:18:14,314 --> 00:18:16,513 Speaker 3: for some people that happens at a time that they're not. 385 00:18:16,634 --> 00:18:19,434 Speaker 3: And I know it's different for Claire because she had, 386 00:18:19,474 --> 00:18:21,714 Speaker 3: you know, other kids, it's a little bit different for 387 00:18:21,714 --> 00:18:23,594 Speaker 3: her because she was almost out of that little kid 388 00:18:23,634 --> 00:18:25,074 Speaker 3: face a little bit right now. 389 00:18:25,114 --> 00:18:25,634 Speaker 1: No. 390 00:18:25,314 --> 00:18:27,834 Speaker 4: I think her kids were like eight and eleven or 391 00:18:27,834 --> 00:18:30,553 Speaker 4: eight aswel she would have very much felt like that 392 00:18:30,634 --> 00:18:31,754 Speaker 4: part of her life is gone. 393 00:18:31,754 --> 00:18:34,234 Speaker 3: Now she's into the yes, and it's still of course 394 00:18:34,234 --> 00:18:35,954 Speaker 3: not about her, it's about he kids. But it's much 395 00:18:35,994 --> 00:18:41,354 Speaker 3: simpler being thrust back into that. I completely empathize. 396 00:18:40,914 --> 00:18:43,234 Speaker 4: Yeah, with her, and I think it's interesting though people 397 00:18:43,274 --> 00:18:46,114 Speaker 4: assumed she was talking about that because she didn't want 398 00:18:46,194 --> 00:18:49,434 Speaker 4: that child, but I don't think people were thinking about that. 399 00:18:49,514 --> 00:18:51,794 Speaker 4: She might be thinking about how scared she was about 400 00:18:51,834 --> 00:18:56,274 Speaker 4: the risks involved about taking her away from her other children. Obviously, 401 00:18:56,314 --> 00:18:59,234 Speaker 4: for someone like Clare Dane's, financial pressure is probably not 402 00:18:59,274 --> 00:19:01,313 Speaker 4: one of the things she's thinking about. But for a 403 00:19:01,314 --> 00:19:03,154 Speaker 4: lot of people who they'd find out they have an 404 00:19:03,194 --> 00:19:06,474 Speaker 4: unexpected pregnancy, that would be a thing as well, like practicality, 405 00:19:06,634 --> 00:19:07,794 Speaker 4: where do we with this kid? 406 00:19:07,874 --> 00:19:09,234 Speaker 1: How do we drive this kid? 407 00:19:09,434 --> 00:19:09,594 Speaker 4: Like? 408 00:19:09,634 --> 00:19:11,034 Speaker 1: People have a lot of other. 409 00:19:10,994 --> 00:19:14,354 Speaker 4: Thoughts around it, not just oh, I didn't want that baby, 410 00:19:14,394 --> 00:19:16,874 Speaker 4: and I would hope that you know, anyone who's had 411 00:19:16,874 --> 00:19:19,594 Speaker 4: that reaction, say the kid finds it, they can say 412 00:19:19,594 --> 00:19:19,994 Speaker 4: that to them. 413 00:19:20,034 --> 00:19:20,994 Speaker 1: It wasn't not wanting you. 414 00:19:21,114 --> 00:19:23,594 Speaker 4: It was just a recalibration of everything that was about 415 00:19:23,594 --> 00:19:24,554 Speaker 4: to change because of. 416 00:19:24,514 --> 00:19:28,714 Speaker 3: You mom's it would be very unusual for every person 417 00:19:28,754 --> 00:19:31,234 Speaker 3: on the earth to have the same reaction to that 418 00:19:31,274 --> 00:19:32,194 Speaker 3: thing happening. 419 00:19:32,834 --> 00:19:36,834 Speaker 2: I'm interested in why why you feel uncomfortable, what makes 420 00:19:36,834 --> 00:19:38,033 Speaker 2: you feel uncomfortable about it. 421 00:19:38,194 --> 00:19:40,754 Speaker 1: I'm interested in that too, And I want to just 422 00:19:40,834 --> 00:19:42,474 Speaker 1: lay on the table that I don't think what you 423 00:19:42,514 --> 00:19:45,194 Speaker 1: said was wrong. I think what you said was really honest, 424 00:19:45,234 --> 00:19:47,274 Speaker 1: and I do think we need to hear those stories. 425 00:19:47,314 --> 00:19:50,874 Speaker 1: They're just not the general stories that are palatable to people. 426 00:19:51,434 --> 00:19:54,114 Speaker 1: It feels like when you speak the truth about how 427 00:19:54,154 --> 00:19:57,714 Speaker 1: you feel, that can be uncomfortable because it's not the 428 00:19:57,954 --> 00:20:02,474 Speaker 1: generally accepted viewpoint of becoming a parent. You get sold 429 00:20:02,514 --> 00:20:07,114 Speaker 1: this idea that it's this beautiful, amazing thing and life change. 430 00:20:07,714 --> 00:20:09,594 Speaker 1: You get sold the idea that it's going to be 431 00:20:09,634 --> 00:20:12,033 Speaker 1: the best thing you've ever done. And for people to 432 00:20:12,074 --> 00:20:15,874 Speaker 1: say I know more now and actually I didn't feel 433 00:20:15,874 --> 00:20:19,154 Speaker 1: that way just feels kind of countercultural. I'm not saying 434 00:20:19,194 --> 00:20:22,273 Speaker 1: it's not important. I think it's just really interesting. What 435 00:20:22,354 --> 00:20:26,354 Speaker 1: we don't talk enough about is how parenting is really complicated, 436 00:20:26,474 --> 00:20:29,314 Speaker 1: how two things can be true at once, feeling shocked 437 00:20:29,354 --> 00:20:32,474 Speaker 1: that you're having twins. Claire Dane's feeling utterly shocked and 438 00:20:32,674 --> 00:20:35,474 Speaker 1: grief stricken that she's pregnant at forty four does not 439 00:20:35,634 --> 00:20:38,313 Speaker 1: cancel out the fact that your love is still going 440 00:20:38,314 --> 00:20:42,954 Speaker 1: to be boundless. It's just interesting about that larger question 441 00:20:43,034 --> 00:20:46,714 Speaker 1: of like, why are women and men, to an extent 442 00:20:46,794 --> 00:20:51,594 Speaker 1: but mainly women expected to feel grateful instead of panicked 443 00:20:52,194 --> 00:20:53,994 Speaker 1: when pregnancy happens against the odds. 444 00:20:54,154 --> 00:20:55,034 Speaker 2: It's definitely women. 445 00:20:55,074 --> 00:20:57,513 Speaker 3: It's definitely women, Like there is not the same expectation 446 00:20:57,594 --> 00:21:00,793 Speaker 3: on men to feel universally positive. I don't feel that 447 00:21:01,114 --> 00:21:03,593 Speaker 3: at all. It would be a folly to assume that 448 00:21:03,794 --> 00:21:06,154 Speaker 3: men and women are expected to react the same way, 449 00:21:06,194 --> 00:21:10,034 Speaker 3: because society women to react very differently to men, I think. 450 00:21:10,354 --> 00:21:14,273 Speaker 3: But your point, minds I completely agree with, which is 451 00:21:14,314 --> 00:21:17,474 Speaker 3: that both of those things can be true. You can 452 00:21:17,554 --> 00:21:21,954 Speaker 3: feel an immense grief or you can feel a certain thing, 453 00:21:22,074 --> 00:21:26,394 Speaker 3: and it also can simultaneously be one of the most 454 00:21:26,554 --> 00:21:28,514 Speaker 3: incredible thing that life can bring us. 455 00:21:28,754 --> 00:21:32,954 Speaker 1: Those complicating feelings are talked about in women's groups a lot, 456 00:21:32,994 --> 00:21:34,234 Speaker 1: and that is a lot of what you'll get in 457 00:21:34,234 --> 00:21:37,033 Speaker 1: a mother's group. Is I love my baby more than 458 00:21:37,074 --> 00:21:39,434 Speaker 1: life itself. I don't think I can do this, so 459 00:21:39,474 --> 00:21:43,074 Speaker 1: to hear men talk about it is refreshing and really interesting. 460 00:21:43,914 --> 00:21:45,874 Speaker 1: I want to ask about age. I want to talk 461 00:21:45,874 --> 00:21:48,754 Speaker 1: about whether age plays into this, because Claire Danes is 462 00:21:48,794 --> 00:21:53,074 Speaker 1: forty four. Let's say it was a teenager that got 463 00:21:53,074 --> 00:21:58,874 Speaker 1: pregnant and they panicked too, and they rang their obgyn 464 00:21:58,994 --> 00:22:02,994 Speaker 1: and was crying and was grief stricken as well. Does 465 00:22:03,034 --> 00:22:06,354 Speaker 1: that story seem more palatable to us? Because is it 466 00:22:06,394 --> 00:22:09,194 Speaker 1: that we're actually and there's a layer to this story 467 00:22:09,674 --> 00:22:12,434 Speaker 1: where having a baby at forty four seems kind of 468 00:22:12,874 --> 00:22:15,634 Speaker 1: I'm going to put this in quotation marks like irresponsible 469 00:22:15,794 --> 00:22:18,114 Speaker 1: for someone who's already a mother, Like, what was there 470 00:22:18,274 --> 00:22:21,314 Speaker 1: a layer to this? Is it code for well, Clare Danes, 471 00:22:21,314 --> 00:22:22,114 Speaker 1: you should have known better. 472 00:22:22,474 --> 00:22:25,714 Speaker 4: I wonder if it's more to do with the fact 473 00:22:25,714 --> 00:22:27,994 Speaker 4: that there's a lot of women. As much as we're 474 00:22:27,994 --> 00:22:31,594 Speaker 4: also open about gender disappointment or having an unexpected child, 475 00:22:31,834 --> 00:22:33,434 Speaker 4: there's a lot of women that are really open now 476 00:22:33,434 --> 00:22:36,474 Speaker 4: about their fertility struggles as well, and so I almost 477 00:22:36,554 --> 00:22:38,554 Speaker 4: feel like it's there's a lot of women who would 478 00:22:38,554 --> 00:22:41,513 Speaker 4: be in their forties desperately hoping for a baby, looking 479 00:22:41,554 --> 00:22:44,714 Speaker 4: at her have one by accident or by happy surprise 480 00:22:45,154 --> 00:22:47,474 Speaker 4: and going, well, I would want that, So how dare 481 00:22:47,554 --> 00:22:49,954 Speaker 4: you say that that's disappointing? And I think that's probably 482 00:22:49,954 --> 00:22:52,714 Speaker 4: what it is like, holding space for all the women 483 00:22:52,874 --> 00:22:56,033 Speaker 4: families that would want to have a child and can't. 484 00:22:56,354 --> 00:22:57,874 Speaker 4: That's more what it feels like to me. 485 00:22:58,234 --> 00:23:01,513 Speaker 3: That's so true, And I think you're right monds that 486 00:23:01,514 --> 00:23:04,954 Speaker 3: there is an agis element to it, and it probably 487 00:23:04,994 --> 00:23:09,594 Speaker 3: reflects pretty poorly on that expectations that society has of women. 488 00:23:09,754 --> 00:23:11,513 Speaker 3: And like I'm saying this as a man, say she 489 00:23:11,634 --> 00:23:13,073 Speaker 3: was eighteen or so, it was an eighteen year old 490 00:23:13,114 --> 00:23:15,874 Speaker 3: or a nineteen year old having that reaction. I think 491 00:23:15,914 --> 00:23:18,754 Speaker 3: that that would be fine because you society would think 492 00:23:18,794 --> 00:23:21,074 Speaker 3: you're fair enough. An eighteen or nineteen year old probably 493 00:23:21,474 --> 00:23:23,714 Speaker 3: might not be ready to have a child yet and 494 00:23:23,754 --> 00:23:27,874 Speaker 3: to raise that child, whereas society feels very differently about 495 00:23:27,914 --> 00:23:30,914 Speaker 3: women who might be in their forties, because the sort 496 00:23:30,914 --> 00:23:33,793 Speaker 3: of thinking is once you're over thirty five or forty, like, 497 00:23:33,874 --> 00:23:36,354 Speaker 3: your role is to be a mum. In some ways, 498 00:23:36,474 --> 00:23:38,394 Speaker 3: I don't think that's necessarily right, by the way, but 499 00:23:38,514 --> 00:23:41,474 Speaker 3: maybe that's why we find it a little bit more uncomfortable. 500 00:23:41,834 --> 00:23:43,634 Speaker 1: So here's where I land on this. I think it 501 00:23:43,714 --> 00:23:47,114 Speaker 1: was so interesting how rarely we hear this brand of 502 00:23:47,154 --> 00:23:51,553 Speaker 1: like complete honesty, particularly with celebrities around motherhood. That's really 503 00:23:51,594 --> 00:23:54,394 Speaker 1: interesting to pick apart. I don't think the most dangerous 504 00:23:54,394 --> 00:23:57,034 Speaker 1: thing for kids to hear is that their parents once 505 00:23:57,074 --> 00:24:00,833 Speaker 1: felt shocked or overwhelmed or unsure, because that is just 506 00:24:00,914 --> 00:24:03,674 Speaker 1: being human. And Claire Dane's isn't saying she didn't want 507 00:24:03,674 --> 00:24:06,234 Speaker 1: a child, like as you pointed out, Stacy. She's saying 508 00:24:06,554 --> 00:24:08,553 Speaker 1: she knew what coming and it kind of made a panic. 509 00:24:08,594 --> 00:24:11,234 Speaker 1: And that is a very human thing, and you are 510 00:24:11,274 --> 00:24:13,994 Speaker 1: allowed to feel more than one thing. And these are 511 00:24:14,034 --> 00:24:15,674 Speaker 1: the human stories that we do need more of in 512 00:24:15,714 --> 00:24:16,474 Speaker 1: the parenting space. 513 00:24:17,074 --> 00:24:21,074 Speaker 3: I read an article in the Atlantic last week called 514 00:24:21,554 --> 00:24:24,593 Speaker 3: One Weird Trick to feel more relaxed at home. The 515 00:24:24,634 --> 00:24:28,634 Speaker 3: author Julie Beck writes about a specific anxiety that I 516 00:24:28,634 --> 00:24:32,394 Speaker 3: think we all feel cluttered bench tops. I want to 517 00:24:32,394 --> 00:24:34,994 Speaker 3: read you this bit because I feel quite seen. Okay, 518 00:24:35,554 --> 00:24:37,674 Speaker 3: home is where the mess is, she writes, and it's 519 00:24:37,674 --> 00:24:39,994 Speaker 3: staring you in the face. When I see piles on 520 00:24:40,034 --> 00:24:43,554 Speaker 3: the counters. I begin walking around in a half muttering 521 00:24:43,754 --> 00:24:47,554 Speaker 3: that we live in filth. But here's the interesting part. 522 00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:52,994 Speaker 3: Beck spoke to a psychologist at Carnegie Mellon University, Daniel Oppenheimer, 523 00:24:53,394 --> 00:24:56,554 Speaker 3: and he says this isn't just about being messy, it's 524 00:24:56,594 --> 00:24:59,754 Speaker 3: about what you can see. He says that when clutter 525 00:24:59,874 --> 00:25:03,034 Speaker 3: is at eye level, like on a kitchen bench, for example, 526 00:25:03,594 --> 00:25:06,994 Speaker 3: it triggers a stress response because your brain literally can 527 00:25:07,434 --> 00:25:11,674 Speaker 3: ignore it. It is constantly demanding your attention. The research 528 00:25:11,674 --> 00:25:14,394 Speaker 3: suggests that the quickest way to lower your cortisol isn't 529 00:25:14,434 --> 00:25:18,634 Speaker 3: necessarily to clean the whole house. All you need to 530 00:25:18,674 --> 00:25:23,914 Speaker 3: do is clear the flat surfaces. This is where we 531 00:25:23,954 --> 00:25:28,194 Speaker 3: have been gas lit because Marie Condo convinced us that 532 00:25:28,314 --> 00:25:31,674 Speaker 3: everything must have a home, and that is a lie. 533 00:25:32,594 --> 00:25:35,754 Speaker 3: We are driving ourselves crazy trying to find a place 534 00:25:35,794 --> 00:25:39,794 Speaker 3: for things that simply do not belong anywhere. They don't 535 00:25:40,074 --> 00:25:42,874 Speaker 3: a rock, a single battery, a weird screw. 536 00:25:43,114 --> 00:25:44,593 Speaker 1: Why is there always a screw. 537 00:25:44,674 --> 00:25:46,354 Speaker 2: There's always a weird There's always a screw. 538 00:25:46,554 --> 00:25:48,354 Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon pir elastics. 539 00:25:48,514 --> 00:25:51,074 Speaker 3: In a modern family home, there must be at least 540 00:25:51,274 --> 00:25:55,594 Speaker 3: twenty percent of things that are technically homeless. My wife 541 00:25:55,594 --> 00:25:57,434 Speaker 3: has a system for this. I call it her ship draw. 542 00:25:58,314 --> 00:26:01,514 Speaker 3: It is a chaotic holding cell. And when she leaves 543 00:26:01,514 --> 00:26:03,354 Speaker 3: stuff on the bench that has no home, I don't 544 00:26:03,394 --> 00:26:05,834 Speaker 3: try and organize the stuff straight in the ship draw. 545 00:26:06,034 --> 00:26:10,513 Speaker 3: The ship draw, I will argue, is necessary infrastructure in 546 00:26:10,554 --> 00:26:11,434 Speaker 3: the modern household. 547 00:26:11,594 --> 00:26:13,994 Speaker 1: I so agree, don't be shameful about it. It's actually 548 00:26:14,034 --> 00:26:16,474 Speaker 1: really good for your brain. Did you know this? That 549 00:26:16,634 --> 00:26:20,194 Speaker 1: rummaging through a junk drawer activates this thing in your 550 00:26:20,194 --> 00:26:23,154 Speaker 1: brain called novelty seeking, and it gives us a tiny 551 00:26:23,194 --> 00:26:26,793 Speaker 1: dopamine hit. And it's why op shops always have big bins, 552 00:26:26,874 --> 00:26:29,834 Speaker 1: and why there's clearance racks at big w and it's 553 00:26:29,834 --> 00:26:32,554 Speaker 1: why TK max is always a bit like all over 554 00:26:32,554 --> 00:26:34,914 Speaker 1: the shop. It's because our brains like it. Our brains 555 00:26:34,994 --> 00:26:37,154 Speaker 1: value things more when we feel like we've earned them. 556 00:26:37,194 --> 00:26:39,674 Speaker 1: So having a junk draw is not something to be 557 00:26:39,714 --> 00:26:42,394 Speaker 1: ashamed of. It's actually so good for your brain. It's 558 00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:43,874 Speaker 1: a dopamine hit NonStop. 559 00:26:44,034 --> 00:26:46,634 Speaker 3: Okay, Mom's you're on the train right, Oh, clearly you're 560 00:26:46,634 --> 00:26:48,914 Speaker 3: both on the train. I thought that we could play 561 00:26:48,954 --> 00:26:51,434 Speaker 3: a game to help both of you if you need it. 562 00:26:51,474 --> 00:26:53,794 Speaker 3: But also our listeners clear their benches. 563 00:26:54,234 --> 00:26:56,513 Speaker 4: Yeah, because it can't be carte blanche like you can't 564 00:26:56,514 --> 00:26:58,313 Speaker 4: just scrape everything off into there. 565 00:26:58,314 --> 00:26:58,954 Speaker 1: There needs to. 566 00:26:58,914 --> 00:27:02,313 Speaker 3: Be something straight in the bin. Yes, the goal is 567 00:27:02,354 --> 00:27:03,234 Speaker 3: clean bench tops. 568 00:27:03,274 --> 00:27:03,434 Speaker 5: Right. 569 00:27:03,754 --> 00:27:06,273 Speaker 3: We need no stress quarters or we can't see the mess. 570 00:27:06,394 --> 00:27:09,354 Speaker 3: Something's going junk draw something's going bin. So I'm in 571 00:27:09,394 --> 00:27:12,554 Speaker 3: a name three items that the average family probably has 572 00:27:12,714 --> 00:27:15,714 Speaker 3: on their kitchen bench, right, and you're going to say 573 00:27:15,914 --> 00:27:18,434 Speaker 3: whether it goes in the shit draw or in the bin, 574 00:27:18,674 --> 00:27:20,554 Speaker 3: give it to us, and at the end of the game, 575 00:27:20,874 --> 00:27:22,034 Speaker 3: you're going to have a clean bench. 576 00:27:22,194 --> 00:27:24,834 Speaker 1: This makes me so happy, even imagining my bench ben clean. 577 00:27:26,434 --> 00:27:29,234 Speaker 2: I've decided what the right answer is for each one 578 00:27:29,314 --> 00:27:30,354 Speaker 2: based on five. 579 00:27:30,354 --> 00:27:36,634 Speaker 1: Okay, very serious judgment system. Okay, we're ready. 580 00:27:38,514 --> 00:27:42,274 Speaker 3: Item one a birthday card from a relative not in 581 00:27:42,314 --> 00:27:46,554 Speaker 3: your immediate family circle. But it has handwriting in it. 582 00:27:46,794 --> 00:27:48,274 Speaker 1: Oh bin. 583 00:27:49,154 --> 00:27:50,714 Speaker 4: I was about to jump in and say bin, but 584 00:27:50,754 --> 00:27:53,234 Speaker 4: then you said the handwriting, and I feel like it 585 00:27:53,274 --> 00:27:55,114 Speaker 4: just needs to go to the holding cell for six 586 00:27:55,154 --> 00:27:58,554 Speaker 4: to twelve months and then you can throw it out. 587 00:27:58,594 --> 00:28:01,914 Speaker 3: Stacy, you are right, well done. The correct answer is 588 00:28:01,954 --> 00:28:04,954 Speaker 3: shit drawer. You cannot be in handwriting immediately. 589 00:28:05,234 --> 00:28:06,594 Speaker 2: That is not bad karma. 590 00:28:06,834 --> 00:28:10,073 Speaker 3: It is it goes in the drawer until you move house. 591 00:28:10,154 --> 00:28:11,714 Speaker 3: And then it goes in the bin. 592 00:28:11,954 --> 00:28:15,474 Speaker 4: Yes. Agree, I think even a six month parole for 593 00:28:15,554 --> 00:28:17,474 Speaker 4: that card and then you can throw it. 594 00:28:17,914 --> 00:28:24,714 Speaker 3: Stacy, you're on one point okay. Item two, a single 595 00:28:24,914 --> 00:28:28,994 Speaker 3: Allen key that doesn't fit any furniture you caenly own. 596 00:28:30,314 --> 00:28:30,594 Speaker 1: Draw. 597 00:28:31,514 --> 00:28:34,434 Speaker 2: Stacy, you are correct. It is the shit draw. 598 00:28:34,794 --> 00:28:37,554 Speaker 3: It has two monds, the fear that you might one 599 00:28:37,634 --> 00:28:41,114 Speaker 3: day buy a piece of furniture acqulying that specific gauge 600 00:28:41,114 --> 00:28:42,554 Speaker 3: of Hex's key is too strong. 601 00:28:42,594 --> 00:28:43,474 Speaker 2: It must stay. 602 00:28:43,674 --> 00:28:46,114 Speaker 4: That has happened to me at least thrice where something 603 00:28:46,154 --> 00:28:48,554 Speaker 4: has come missing and there's just a little Alan key 604 00:28:48,554 --> 00:28:49,474 Speaker 4: floating around in the drawer. 605 00:28:49,514 --> 00:28:52,154 Speaker 1: You must keep that On's what are you doing? Your 606 00:28:52,234 --> 00:28:54,954 Speaker 1: drunk draw must be empty. I'm scorched earth when it 607 00:28:54,954 --> 00:28:57,634 Speaker 1: comes to keeping stuff right. I keep belly anything but 608 00:28:57,714 --> 00:29:00,554 Speaker 1: a professional declutter once told me, if you can replace 609 00:29:00,594 --> 00:29:03,274 Speaker 1: something in under ten minutes or for less than ten dollars, get. 610 00:29:03,194 --> 00:29:03,554 Speaker 2: Rid of it. 611 00:29:03,674 --> 00:29:06,554 Speaker 3: You could also theoretically borrow a hex kick because someone 612 00:29:06,594 --> 00:29:08,314 Speaker 3: always had as Alan key. 613 00:29:08,394 --> 00:29:10,274 Speaker 1: Yeah, go to my dad's and stuff like that. 614 00:29:10,314 --> 00:29:12,634 Speaker 2: But the correct answer was shit draw. So Mon's you're 615 00:29:12,634 --> 00:29:17,594 Speaker 2: on zero okay. Item three. 616 00:29:17,954 --> 00:29:23,034 Speaker 3: The final item is for triple point so anyone can 617 00:29:23,114 --> 00:29:27,594 Speaker 3: win a toilet roll sculpture from your child's daycare that 618 00:29:27,714 --> 00:29:30,754 Speaker 3: is still slightly damp from the glue. It has three 619 00:29:31,154 --> 00:29:34,914 Speaker 3: types of dried pasta, and it is slowly disintegrating on 620 00:29:34,994 --> 00:29:35,834 Speaker 3: the bench. 621 00:29:37,714 --> 00:29:40,194 Speaker 1: In it's staying in the drawer for a day and 622 00:29:40,274 --> 00:29:40,954 Speaker 1: then going in the bin. 623 00:29:41,154 --> 00:29:41,794 Speaker 2: Mon's well done. 624 00:29:41,834 --> 00:29:42,394 Speaker 1: You get a pine. 625 00:29:42,434 --> 00:29:44,914 Speaker 3: It goes in the bin, but you must wrap it 626 00:29:44,954 --> 00:29:47,274 Speaker 3: in newspaper and put it at the bottom of the 627 00:29:47,314 --> 00:29:49,074 Speaker 3: bin so they never find it. 628 00:29:51,154 --> 00:29:53,074 Speaker 2: Well done, everyone, your benches are now. 629 00:29:53,074 --> 00:29:56,754 Speaker 4: Please, yay, thank you. Open plan houses have a lot 630 00:29:56,834 --> 00:29:57,634 Speaker 4: to answer for here. 631 00:29:57,674 --> 00:29:58,634 Speaker 1: This is the issue. 632 00:29:58,914 --> 00:30:00,914 Speaker 4: You can't sit down on the lounge without seeing your 633 00:30:00,954 --> 00:30:04,194 Speaker 4: bench top now. Back in yesteryear, it was far away. 634 00:30:04,274 --> 00:30:06,234 Speaker 4: It was none of your business. This is the fault 635 00:30:06,234 --> 00:30:08,434 Speaker 4: of open plan leaving and I am glad you've solved 636 00:30:08,474 --> 00:30:08,874 Speaker 4: it for us. 637 00:30:08,914 --> 00:30:09,594 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 638 00:30:09,674 --> 00:30:13,074 Speaker 4: Luca Mons and I were obviously very divided there with 639 00:30:13,154 --> 00:30:15,274 Speaker 4: our judgment about the junk draw but we are very 640 00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:17,874 Speaker 4: similar on a lot of things. Mon's like, we're both 641 00:30:17,954 --> 00:30:20,674 Speaker 4: six foot two, we're both people pleasers. We both liked 642 00:30:20,674 --> 00:30:23,034 Speaker 4: telling everyone we were school captain. We brought that up 643 00:30:23,034 --> 00:30:26,034 Speaker 4: at least ten times on this pod. So I assumed 644 00:30:26,154 --> 00:30:28,114 Speaker 4: that when you gave birth you would have been like 645 00:30:28,234 --> 00:30:31,554 Speaker 4: me and suddenly turned woo woo and started going to 646 00:30:31,594 --> 00:30:35,674 Speaker 4: calm birth courses because you were terrified and doing birth 647 00:30:35,714 --> 00:30:38,234 Speaker 4: affirmations that you thought were going to help you through. 648 00:30:38,474 --> 00:30:40,594 Speaker 4: And then you informed me that you did not. You 649 00:30:40,634 --> 00:30:42,394 Speaker 4: didn't even know what a birth affirmation was. 650 00:30:42,674 --> 00:30:45,194 Speaker 1: I've never heard of a birth affirmation before you brought 651 00:30:45,194 --> 00:30:47,714 Speaker 1: it up. It didn't hit my algorithm. I wasn't in 652 00:30:47,754 --> 00:30:50,874 Speaker 1: that sphere. So yeah, tell me so I'll feel you 653 00:30:50,914 --> 00:30:51,634 Speaker 1: in on what these are. 654 00:30:51,674 --> 00:30:54,474 Speaker 4: And luka, I assume you didn't use birth affirmations when 655 00:30:54,554 --> 00:30:55,474 Speaker 4: Jesse was in labor. 656 00:30:55,594 --> 00:30:57,514 Speaker 2: I do know what they are, but I haven't used 657 00:30:57,514 --> 00:30:58,154 Speaker 2: them personally. 658 00:30:58,274 --> 00:31:00,794 Speaker 4: So people love these and I'm sure they do work. 659 00:31:00,834 --> 00:31:03,554 Speaker 4: It's all that visualization. It's kind of stuff like each 660 00:31:03,674 --> 00:31:06,874 Speaker 4: surge brings me closer to my baby and my contractions 661 00:31:06,914 --> 00:31:10,194 Speaker 4: and stronger than me because they are me, and I 662 00:31:10,234 --> 00:31:12,714 Speaker 4: feel strong and empowered. They're all these things you're meant 663 00:31:12,754 --> 00:31:14,874 Speaker 4: to say, And of course, when I got to it, 664 00:31:15,514 --> 00:31:17,474 Speaker 4: I did not think about one of these ones. I 665 00:31:17,474 --> 00:31:19,474 Speaker 4: don't want to yuck anyone's yum if they worked for 666 00:31:19,554 --> 00:31:24,034 Speaker 4: you that is great. But I have found a such 667 00:31:24,114 --> 00:31:26,874 Speaker 4: better version of birth affirmations that I think people will 668 00:31:26,914 --> 00:31:29,794 Speaker 4: actually use. Even if you're never planning on giving birth, 669 00:31:29,834 --> 00:31:31,834 Speaker 4: you will just love these and should just use these 670 00:31:31,874 --> 00:31:32,994 Speaker 4: in daily life. 671 00:31:33,154 --> 00:31:34,434 Speaker 1: They're from Flora Gill. 672 00:31:34,554 --> 00:31:37,154 Speaker 4: She's a freelance journalist and she posted them on substack 673 00:31:37,194 --> 00:31:40,674 Speaker 4: and they're going everywhere. So she's got new versions that 674 00:31:40,794 --> 00:31:43,314 Speaker 4: are this when you're in labor or you're about to 675 00:31:43,354 --> 00:31:44,194 Speaker 4: go in for a c sesson. 676 00:31:44,274 --> 00:31:47,154 Speaker 3: Hang on, I'm like in labor, I'm lying on the table. Yeah, 677 00:31:47,194 --> 00:31:48,874 Speaker 3: so am I saying these to myself? 678 00:31:48,874 --> 00:31:51,914 Speaker 4: You're saying these to yourself to keep you happy and 679 00:31:51,954 --> 00:31:54,474 Speaker 4: content in the moment. But I think some of these 680 00:31:54,474 --> 00:31:57,834 Speaker 4: could apply in other places, like the workplace. The stupidest 681 00:31:57,874 --> 00:32:01,314 Speaker 4: person I know has done this before. Don't you think 682 00:32:01,314 --> 00:32:04,394 Speaker 4: that would help? Yeah, like the dumb dums are doing it. 683 00:32:04,474 --> 00:32:07,874 Speaker 4: I'll be fine. Imagine how jealous of it Torrian Lady 684 00:32:07,914 --> 00:32:12,634 Speaker 4: would be to learn about an ephie dural Like, great, okay, 685 00:32:13,034 --> 00:32:16,194 Speaker 4: love it. My vagina survived a gap year. It can 686 00:32:16,234 --> 00:32:21,074 Speaker 4: survive this. It's gonna be okay. 687 00:32:21,194 --> 00:32:21,914 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 688 00:32:21,914 --> 00:32:23,514 Speaker 4: And in this one is if you're having a boy, 689 00:32:23,754 --> 00:32:25,554 Speaker 4: so you could pass this one on to Jesse. 690 00:32:25,634 --> 00:32:26,714 Speaker 1: I know you're having one boy. 691 00:32:27,074 --> 00:32:30,114 Speaker 4: I refuse to let a boy ruin my day, which 692 00:32:30,154 --> 00:32:31,914 Speaker 4: I just think is great for every day. 693 00:32:32,274 --> 00:32:32,474 Speaker 5: Yeap. 694 00:32:32,674 --> 00:32:36,034 Speaker 4: Think of the great social media content nice, which is 695 00:32:36,114 --> 00:32:38,874 Speaker 4: really the whole point, isn't it. I have so much 696 00:32:38,914 --> 00:32:42,074 Speaker 4: love and support because I'm incredible and I love being 697 00:32:42,074 --> 00:32:43,074 Speaker 4: the center of attention. 698 00:32:43,474 --> 00:32:43,954 Speaker 3: Really good. 699 00:32:44,034 --> 00:32:44,634 Speaker 2: I'll have to use it. 700 00:32:44,714 --> 00:32:47,354 Speaker 4: I just think they're so great, like, we just need 701 00:32:47,394 --> 00:32:50,074 Speaker 4: to use those. So, yeah, Flora, so you doesn't. 702 00:32:49,834 --> 00:32:52,234 Speaker 1: Have any infirmations when you're in labor. What were you 703 00:32:52,354 --> 00:32:55,354 Speaker 1: talking to yourself about? My mind went fully blank. 704 00:32:55,514 --> 00:32:57,234 Speaker 4: I don't think I said a thing to myself in 705 00:32:57,274 --> 00:33:00,354 Speaker 4: that time except for I can't wait to have sushi. 706 00:33:00,554 --> 00:33:02,474 Speaker 4: I think that's what was going through rand On repeat. 707 00:33:02,674 --> 00:33:04,914 Speaker 3: That's the thing that's what makes me most grateful that 708 00:33:04,954 --> 00:33:06,434 Speaker 3: I'm not a woman, is that I couldn't go nine 709 00:33:06,434 --> 00:33:07,074 Speaker 3: months for our sushi. 710 00:33:07,194 --> 00:33:08,954 Speaker 1: Yeah it's a long time. 711 00:33:09,154 --> 00:33:10,834 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are other things, but that's the 712 00:33:10,874 --> 00:33:12,674 Speaker 3: main one. Yeah, I get the main one. 713 00:33:12,794 --> 00:33:15,234 Speaker 4: Well, maybe that can be one as well. You will 714 00:33:15,274 --> 00:33:17,434 Speaker 4: get sushi on the other end of this, you will 715 00:33:17,434 --> 00:33:18,474 Speaker 4: get a glass of wine. 716 00:33:18,514 --> 00:33:20,354 Speaker 1: On the other end of this. We can add plenty 717 00:33:20,434 --> 00:33:21,994 Speaker 1: more on, but I just thought that they were great. 718 00:33:22,114 --> 00:33:24,194 Speaker 3: Mon's what were you like in the like what was 719 00:33:24,234 --> 00:33:26,474 Speaker 3: your vibe in the delivery suite? Like I have no 720 00:33:26,554 --> 00:33:28,994 Speaker 3: idea if you'd be like hot mess or like xen 721 00:33:29,074 --> 00:33:30,914 Speaker 3: lights down, play some wood music. 722 00:33:31,434 --> 00:33:35,234 Speaker 1: I'n informer athlete here, Luca. I was just like, get 723 00:33:35,314 --> 00:33:39,714 Speaker 1: it done. I was my birth affirmation was this gas 724 00:33:39,794 --> 00:33:40,714 Speaker 1: pipe in one hand? 725 00:33:40,914 --> 00:33:41,114 Speaker 6: Yeah? 726 00:33:43,034 --> 00:33:47,274 Speaker 1: Have they turned the gas up? I need more gas? 727 00:33:47,634 --> 00:33:51,234 Speaker 1: That was my affirmation the whole time, more gas please? 728 00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:52,314 Speaker 5: Yeah? 729 00:33:52,474 --> 00:33:55,394 Speaker 1: No, I was quite like just getting it done. That 730 00:33:55,514 --> 00:33:58,714 Speaker 1: is quite you Actually, you know when a friend tells 731 00:33:58,794 --> 00:34:03,034 Speaker 1: you something and you're like, oh, yes, thank you for 732 00:34:03,154 --> 00:34:06,634 Speaker 1: this gift, for this recommendation. Will we like to finish 733 00:34:06,714 --> 00:34:09,153 Speaker 1: the show by telling you the things that we are loving? 734 00:34:09,554 --> 00:34:09,834 Speaker 2: Sick? 735 00:34:10,714 --> 00:34:12,953 Speaker 1: It might be a recommendation to buy something, watch something, 736 00:34:12,994 --> 00:34:16,354 Speaker 1: do something, try something, Stacey, what have you got? Mine 737 00:34:16,474 --> 00:34:17,634 Speaker 1: is so rogue this week? 738 00:34:17,714 --> 00:34:20,393 Speaker 4: But I have a really niche area of obsession that 739 00:34:20,514 --> 00:34:23,073 Speaker 4: I need to tell someone about. So lucky you guys 740 00:34:23,194 --> 00:34:26,154 Speaker 4: you get to hear about this. I've become obsessed with 741 00:34:26,274 --> 00:34:29,634 Speaker 4: this account on TikTok called two Paid Queen, and this 742 00:34:29,834 --> 00:34:34,634 Speaker 4: woman just posts timelines videos of her putting two pays 743 00:34:34,874 --> 00:34:38,354 Speaker 4: on young men, and you see the before, you see all. 744 00:34:38,274 --> 00:34:40,754 Speaker 1: The glue get squirted on their big bolt. 745 00:34:40,554 --> 00:34:44,714 Speaker 2: Heads, and you see nichous that I've ever heard. 746 00:34:44,834 --> 00:34:47,954 Speaker 4: You would say that these videos have millions and millions 747 00:34:47,994 --> 00:34:51,314 Speaker 4: of views. Half long from me, I am obsessed what 748 00:34:51,434 --> 00:34:53,354 Speaker 4: I actually love from like an earnest point of view, 749 00:34:53,394 --> 00:34:55,114 Speaker 4: I just love that guys are being open about the 750 00:34:55,154 --> 00:34:58,354 Speaker 4: fact they lose their hair because they just pretend that 751 00:34:58,394 --> 00:34:59,754 Speaker 4: they don't all they shave their head. I love that 752 00:34:59,794 --> 00:35:01,594 Speaker 4: these young guys are like, yeah, I wear are two pay. 753 00:35:01,954 --> 00:35:03,754 Speaker 4: They are so realistic, Luca. 754 00:35:03,994 --> 00:35:05,953 Speaker 1: They look like your hair. Now, in fact, that may 755 00:35:06,034 --> 00:35:07,674 Speaker 1: be one who's to say. 756 00:35:07,594 --> 00:35:10,393 Speaker 3: So, can you tell me, like what part of your 757 00:35:10,434 --> 00:35:12,873 Speaker 3: brain this tickles? Because I think this is weird. 758 00:35:13,234 --> 00:35:15,674 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I have just seen a man go 759 00:35:15,834 --> 00:35:18,953 Speaker 1: from honestly he would he looked about fifty four years 760 00:35:18,994 --> 00:35:21,794 Speaker 1: old and now he's hot and like twenty years old. 761 00:35:21,994 --> 00:35:24,434 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Now I feel like I'm objectifying men, and 762 00:35:24,554 --> 00:35:26,474 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, men with hair is better. It's not 763 00:35:26,514 --> 00:35:28,873 Speaker 1: always the case, but this is this is just what 764 00:35:28,954 --> 00:35:30,834 Speaker 1: I'm seeing. I'm just reporting his facts and just so 765 00:35:31,114 --> 00:35:35,234 Speaker 1: data point satisfying. It's so satisfying. I'm so realistic. She 766 00:35:35,434 --> 00:35:37,514 Speaker 1: styles them to look great on the men, they're just 767 00:35:37,594 --> 00:35:39,794 Speaker 1: the best. I promise you watch these videos you love it. 768 00:35:39,994 --> 00:35:42,834 Speaker 3: I'm going to jump in with something hopefully less niche 769 00:35:42,954 --> 00:35:48,314 Speaker 3: I hope. My recommendation is the Dummy Fairy. So I 770 00:35:48,474 --> 00:35:52,154 Speaker 3: don't know if you guys are familiar with the Dummy Fairy, 771 00:35:52,314 --> 00:35:55,953 Speaker 3: but when your child gets old enough, it's actually out 772 00:35:56,034 --> 00:35:58,714 Speaker 3: of our control as parents. But when it's time, when 773 00:35:58,754 --> 00:36:00,274 Speaker 3: your child sort of you know, gets to one and 774 00:36:00,314 --> 00:36:02,714 Speaker 3: a half or two, there's nothing that we can do. 775 00:36:03,714 --> 00:36:06,914 Speaker 3: And what happens is that the Dummy Fairy comes and 776 00:36:07,194 --> 00:36:10,714 Speaker 3: takes all of their dummies and goes and gives the 777 00:36:10,834 --> 00:36:14,354 Speaker 3: dummies to other little boys and girls out who need 778 00:36:14,434 --> 00:36:16,594 Speaker 3: them more. Who we had the Dummy Fairy too, who 779 00:36:16,634 --> 00:36:20,034 Speaker 3: were smaller. And my brother in law, who is an 780 00:36:20,034 --> 00:36:24,834 Speaker 3: early childhood educator, has actually made a podcast called Jack 781 00:36:24,874 --> 00:36:28,594 Speaker 3: the story Man, which is short stories for kids around 782 00:36:28,714 --> 00:36:31,513 Speaker 3: like these moments of transition, and so we have been 783 00:36:32,114 --> 00:36:35,434 Speaker 3: listening for the last probably six months to the Dummy 784 00:36:35,514 --> 00:36:36,394 Speaker 3: Fairy episode. 785 00:36:36,514 --> 00:36:37,234 Speaker 2: Here's a little bit. 786 00:36:37,674 --> 00:36:41,593 Speaker 5: One day, there was a little girl called Luna. Every 787 00:36:41,714 --> 00:36:45,154 Speaker 5: night before bed, Mummy and Daddy gave Luna a dummy 788 00:36:45,394 --> 00:36:49,433 Speaker 5: to help her sleep. Luna loved her dummy very much, 789 00:36:50,034 --> 00:36:52,834 Speaker 5: and every night Luna put her dummy in her mouth, 790 00:36:53,394 --> 00:36:58,274 Speaker 5: hugged her teddy, closed her eyes, and drifted off to sleep. 791 00:37:00,474 --> 00:37:03,594 Speaker 5: But one day Luna woke up and she wasn't a 792 00:37:03,714 --> 00:37:07,873 Speaker 5: little girl anymore. She was a big girl. 793 00:37:08,394 --> 00:37:11,674 Speaker 1: I mean the personalization of it, actually saying your daughter's. 794 00:37:11,474 --> 00:37:13,873 Speaker 3: Name, that's a bonus. But it also it can be 795 00:37:13,954 --> 00:37:17,514 Speaker 3: for anyone. And so my recommendation is employ the services 796 00:37:17,554 --> 00:37:21,914 Speaker 3: of the Dummy Fairy and just remember that as a parent. Unfortunately, 797 00:37:22,554 --> 00:37:24,554 Speaker 3: there's nothing you can do. It's out of your hands 798 00:37:24,674 --> 00:37:27,434 Speaker 3: once the dummy Fairy has taken the dummies. And so 799 00:37:27,554 --> 00:37:29,634 Speaker 3: we went listen to the podcast for a few times, 800 00:37:29,714 --> 00:37:31,914 Speaker 3: get it in like the law and the rotation, and 801 00:37:31,994 --> 00:37:34,434 Speaker 3: then one night, bang she comes. 802 00:37:34,554 --> 00:37:37,154 Speaker 1: It's gone love it. I know that we said at 803 00:37:37,154 --> 00:37:39,114 Speaker 1: the start that we don't tell you how to parent, 804 00:37:39,714 --> 00:37:42,234 Speaker 1: but you started at Luca like you brought the dummy Fairy. 805 00:37:42,274 --> 00:37:46,593 Speaker 1: So I'm also bringing something that breaks our rule. Next 806 00:37:46,674 --> 00:37:48,994 Speaker 1: time your kids are sitting around drawing, I want you 807 00:37:49,034 --> 00:37:52,234 Speaker 1: to sit next to them and draw something really crap. Now, 808 00:37:52,754 --> 00:37:56,314 Speaker 1: what you do next is very important, according to the 809 00:37:56,434 --> 00:38:01,274 Speaker 1: Internet and the algorithm. Do not say oh God, that's terrible, 810 00:38:01,674 --> 00:38:05,434 Speaker 1: or oh I'm bad at drawing. Do not apologize for it, 811 00:38:05,914 --> 00:38:09,674 Speaker 1: do not hide it. Instead, you need to celebrate it 812 00:38:09,754 --> 00:38:12,873 Speaker 1: and love it sick and say oh yeah, wow, look 813 00:38:12,874 --> 00:38:17,114 Speaker 1: at my bloody horse. Huh. What this does does something 814 00:38:17,234 --> 00:38:19,434 Speaker 1: very very sneaky and powerful in a kid's brain. So 815 00:38:19,594 --> 00:38:23,434 Speaker 1: when kids grow up watching grown ups like have a 816 00:38:23,474 --> 00:38:26,114 Speaker 1: crack at something, laugh at themselves and just keep going, 817 00:38:26,554 --> 00:38:29,674 Speaker 1: they absorb this idea that the outcome doesn't matter, that 818 00:38:29,794 --> 00:38:32,834 Speaker 1: it's the trying that matters, and I'm allowed to experiment, 819 00:38:32,914 --> 00:38:34,953 Speaker 1: and I'm allowed to be a bit crap at something, 820 00:38:35,034 --> 00:38:37,873 Speaker 1: and it's very safe to do that. I got this 821 00:38:37,954 --> 00:38:41,074 Speaker 1: idea from this art school in Adelaide. Their entire philosophy 822 00:38:41,234 --> 00:38:44,594 Speaker 1: is making mistakes right, that growth mindset. I took my 823 00:38:44,674 --> 00:38:47,393 Speaker 1: daughter there for a class, and before the kids started drawing, 824 00:38:47,434 --> 00:38:50,674 Speaker 1: this teacher said to them, how does your brain grow? 825 00:38:52,034 --> 00:38:54,913 Speaker 1: How does your brain get stronger? What do you need 826 00:38:55,074 --> 00:38:59,634 Speaker 1: to feed it? And all these kids yelled out mistakes mistakes, 827 00:38:59,914 --> 00:39:02,513 Speaker 1: like mistakes are the best thing ever, And she goes yes, 828 00:39:02,914 --> 00:39:07,434 Speaker 1: making mistakes is good. It makes your brain so strong. Anyway, 829 00:39:07,514 --> 00:39:10,994 Speaker 1: mind you'll hit the floor. I was like, yes, preach, preach. 830 00:39:11,114 --> 00:39:13,513 Speaker 1: So these kids were like going at their paper really hard. 831 00:39:13,914 --> 00:39:16,474 Speaker 1: One ripped their paper. Instead of being like I read 832 00:39:16,554 --> 00:39:18,834 Speaker 1: my paper like my kids would do, they were like, 833 00:39:19,114 --> 00:39:20,674 Speaker 1: that's okay. Mistakes are good. 834 00:39:21,714 --> 00:39:25,674 Speaker 2: I was like, mine says very inspirational. But sometimes the 835 00:39:25,754 --> 00:39:26,714 Speaker 2: outcome does matter. 836 00:39:27,274 --> 00:39:33,354 Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes what about like so no, because this is 837 00:39:33,394 --> 00:39:35,714 Speaker 1: the problem. We are raising kids in a world now 838 00:39:35,794 --> 00:39:39,754 Speaker 1: of optimization of nap plan results, of comparison of perfection, 839 00:39:39,954 --> 00:39:42,393 Speaker 1: and we have to show them the opposite, that the 840 00:39:42,514 --> 00:39:45,033 Speaker 1: value is in just having a go and to hold 841 00:39:45,074 --> 00:39:48,474 Speaker 1: it lightly. So that is, your homework creates something terrible 842 00:39:48,754 --> 00:39:50,834 Speaker 1: and love yourself sick for it in front of your kids. 843 00:39:51,154 --> 00:39:53,354 Speaker 2: All right, So your ECO is draw a shit horse. 844 00:39:53,914 --> 00:39:56,914 Speaker 1: Yeah, but do I say it shit? Say it's awesome, 845 00:39:57,514 --> 00:40:00,194 Speaker 1: so funny, look at my great horse. That is all 846 00:40:00,234 --> 00:40:02,114 Speaker 1: we have time for this week on Parenting Out Loud. 847 00:40:02,194 --> 00:40:04,953 Speaker 1: Thank you Luca for sitting in for Amelia Lester. Thank 848 00:40:05,034 --> 00:40:07,754 Speaker 1: you Stacy, thanks guys, thank you, thank you to the 849 00:40:07,834 --> 00:40:10,873 Speaker 1: two Bear Queen you're now fully in that for the 850 00:40:11,034 --> 00:40:14,314 Speaker 1: next week. And thank you to our gorgeous team, Tessakotovic, 851 00:40:14,434 --> 00:40:17,154 Speaker 1: sound designed, Leah Porges to Listen, Pizzas and group ep 852 00:40:17,394 --> 00:40:19,993 Speaker 1: is Rich Devine. Have a great week. We'll be back 853 00:40:20,034 --> 00:40:21,474 Speaker 1: in this feed next Saturday morning. 854 00:40:21,794 --> 00:40:23,594 Speaker 2: Bye bye see. 855 00:40:23,714 --> 00:40:29,154 Speaker 1: Yamma MEA acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on 856 00:40:29,194 --> 00:40:30,634 Speaker 1: which we have recorded this podcast.