Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Momma Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Friday, the stead of April.
Speaker 1: It's Good Friday. And if you're surprised that we are
Speaker 1: bringing you a full show on Good.
Speaker 2: Friday, because hustlers never quit.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, if you're if you are
Speaker 1: feeling that this is a holy day, just address your
Speaker 1: concerns to capitalism. Send your emails of complaint to capitalism.
Speaker 1: That's what I would like to say.
Speaker 3: I think my nanois you say Good Friday is more important.
Speaker 1: Than Easter Sunday. Yep, it is for some people religiously.
Speaker 1: The thing I know most about Good Friday from my
Speaker 1: years of camping and things at Easter, the bottle shops
Speaker 1: are shut. It's the only day of the year because
Speaker 1: we're morning Jesus. Is that?
Speaker 3: Howe?
Speaker 1: I know? So happy? Oh no, I was going to
Speaker 1: say happy Good Friday.
Speaker 2: That's not the correct.
Speaker 1: Happy Easter long weekend if you are having one. Here
Speaker 1: is what Oh sorry, I'm Hollywayen right. Hello, I'm Claire
Speaker 1: Stephen and I'm Vernon. We are in public holiday mode, obviously.
Speaker 1: Here is what made our agenda for today. I'm a nine. Gwin,
Speaker 1: it's the one. No, you're a ten out of ten.
Speaker 1: Sweet Claire's a four, Margat Robbie's a seven and a three.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? It is correct. We're talking about niagrams,
Speaker 1: why they're so hot right now and whether they're just
Speaker 1: star signs for the self optimization group.
Speaker 4: Plus everything you shouldn't do an hour before a date.
Speaker 1: I have some very very strong.
Speaker 3: Opinions and our recommendations for your Easter long weekend, what
Speaker 3: to watch and read.
Speaker 2: But first we need to talk about Easter.
Speaker 3: Treats, because every time I go to the supermarket, I'm aware.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's so sad that some people don't know
Speaker 3: the ranking, Like what's elite and what's not a laite?
Speaker 1: You mean an Easter eggs? Yes, obviously chocolate.
Speaker 3: So I may be thirty five years old, but I
Speaker 3: better be receiving eggs on some day.
Speaker 1: Who's going to get them for you? Who gets you eggs?
Speaker 2: We are going to mum's house?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, does your mom still buy Easter eggs
Speaker 1: for you as she should she buys them for children?
Speaker 3: Yes, and I will eat my child exactly exactly, and
Speaker 3: I reckon she'll do an Easter egg hunt.
Speaker 1: Yes, I will participate and you will win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will win.
Speaker 1: Do people buy you?
Speaker 4: This is quite traumatic to bring up, but I haven't
Speaker 4: had an I haven't received an Easter egg in the
Speaker 4: past three years. The year before that, I went over
Speaker 4: for lunch to mom and dad and I was like, so,
Speaker 4: where's there is? Do I get an Easter bunny and
Speaker 4: Easter Egg? And I just saw like the blood terrain
Speaker 4: from their face and going, oh, we didn't know we
Speaker 4: were still doing that. And I've been upset ever since.
Speaker 4: Hasn't been amended thought one.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, there were some kids at
Speaker 1: school who got presents at Easter present gifts as if
Speaker 1: it was Christmas, and I so I was like, that
Speaker 1: is wild people do that.
Speaker 3: I remember that in primary school, and I remember my
Speaker 3: mum being horrified by consumerism. But I did think i'd share,
Speaker 3: you know, just share my knowledge about what the most
Speaker 3: elite eggs are. I guess you guys can weigh in.
Speaker 3: You'll be wrong, but the most elite egg for gifting
Speaker 3: purposes is the big Cadbury crunchy one.
Speaker 1: Dude, it looks like a turd.
Speaker 2: Like looks can me to see it?
Speaker 3: It's thin milk chocolate, and then it's got little bits crunchy,
Speaker 3: and then it has like mini crunchy eggs inside.
Speaker 2: There are eight. That's a good number to.
Speaker 1: Get eight pieces of disappintment. It's not enough in my
Speaker 1: opinion at the point. If you're gonna have a big egg,
Speaker 1: it needs to be full of stuff. You know, Sometimes
Speaker 1: you buy a big egg and the xmasha and there's
Speaker 1: nothing inside.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I was gonna
Speaker 3: say that. Sometimes I do the eight mini eggs and
Speaker 3: then I do put the big hollow egg in the
Speaker 3: freezer for and that's a lovely experience. Along with the
Speaker 3: plain Cadbury Dairy milk. Mini eggs I agree are the
Speaker 3: elite and the mini egg The one where the.
Speaker 1: Blue turns into a purple is the best tasting one.
Speaker 1: It's all about the.
Speaker 2: Foil, about the foil. That's exactly what I was.
Speaker 3: I don't want to yellow, No, I don't want a
Speaker 3: lime green, orange, red. No.
Speaker 1: The best eggs are the lint mini eggs, the dark ones,
Speaker 1: the blue. I'll just take out a home, take it
Speaker 1: a loan for this. I know. It's cost of living,
Speaker 1: pressures and everything. Fewer eggs, better quality. I'm going to
Speaker 1: lint all the way.
Speaker 2: See I have feedback for lint, I do.
Speaker 1: There is no feedback lip.
Speaker 3: The lint Easter Bunny. Yeah, okay, very classic in the
Speaker 3: gold wrapping with the little red ribbon. It's thick in
Speaker 3: places you don't expect it to be thick, such as.
Speaker 1: The ears, and.
Speaker 2: It makes me thirsty.
Speaker 1: It makes me thirsty. Chop the milk milk, it.
Speaker 2: Down, silk milk.
Speaker 3: Next here the KitKat chunky egg, the Smarties.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. I know about the
Speaker 1: kid cat little bunny rabbit, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: What they're Sorry, it's KitKat chunky and the smartiest one.
Speaker 3: But then Nestle and notably, that's not Cadbury Golden Gaytime egg. No,
Speaker 3: don't be too tricky. You can't be taking those kind
Speaker 3: of risks. Not a fan of carra milk, Cadbury cream
Speaker 3: eggs or the ones with caramel inside, although.
Speaker 1: I do I love the Cadbury's cream egg. When I
Speaker 1: was a child, sometimes my mum, who is busy working
Speaker 1: mother hashtag, would bring one back from the supermarket for
Speaker 1: me and my brother, just just a treat, and it
Speaker 1: would be the most amazing thing ever, she'd like pull
Speaker 1: it out of her sleeve as if it was. And
Speaker 1: they are the bomb. I haven't eaten one as an adult,
Speaker 1: though I have to say they seem a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't like being surprised by content in my egg.
Speaker 2: Agree.
Speaker 3: I don't like being surprised by the color. That can
Speaker 3: be quite distressing.
Speaker 1: It's fondant. Yeah, yes, I think I think that's what's inside.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Red Huel of Easter Bunnies. No, no, absolutely ill,
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: See the way it goes in my world. Regular outlouders
Speaker 1: will know this. I wrote a freaking book about it.
Speaker 1: But I'm always camping at Easter. I've had I'm camping
Speaker 1: right now while you're listening to this. I am camping
Speaker 1: the problems that you have. And all Easter campers know
Speaker 1: this is we've got we can with a load of kids.
Speaker 1: You've all got to take your eggs for the Easter hunt.
Speaker 1: They will melt because it is invariably hot. So you've
Speaker 1: always got to have an eski that's got ice in
Speaker 1: it where the eggs will go. But then the water
Speaker 1: gets in the card board around their eggs breaks down
Speaker 1: like it's very high maintenance. But I've always believed in
Speaker 1: quality for me. So little cute lint ones and cheap
Speaker 1: rubbish at scale for the children. So because the kids
Speaker 1: only care about how big their egg is, they don't
Speaker 1: really care about the taste. You just go hardcore cheap
Speaker 1: chocolate for the children and you keep back the lind
Speaker 1: Minis for yourself. That's the only way to do it.
Speaker 1: One year I got Brent to buy the Easter eggs.
Speaker 1: You won't be surprised to know that he went full
Speaker 1: cheap chocolate. And I think it was the year that
Speaker 1: I'd just written some story about some NRL player that
Speaker 1: was being bad or something, and he got me a
Speaker 1: big NRL for Easter and all my friends laughed at me.
Speaker 1: And it tasted awful. It tasted like shame and discippline
Speaker 1: and wax. Okay. Amy Pohler started this for me, right.
Speaker 1: I listened to her podcast Good Hang. We've talked about
Speaker 1: it before, and in almost every single episode she brings
Speaker 1: up enneagrams. Right does she get the guest to do
Speaker 1: them before? Well, she always asks them what they are,
Speaker 1: so she's like, I think they It only works with
Speaker 1: other people who are into it, which is what leads
Speaker 1: me to believe that all of Hollywood is into it
Speaker 1: because they all know because Amy is an eight and
Speaker 1: which ones that is a challenger, and that is She's
Speaker 1: made it pretty much her whole personality. And that's because
Speaker 1: it is her personality, right, it's her any a gram number.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know what we're talking about, I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you a quick breakdown. In Hollywood right now,
Speaker 1: it's very hot. It's on all the self optimization podcasts,
Speaker 1: but management trainers, leadership coaches, you know those team building
Speaker 1: exercises you're often asked to do a work. They've been
Speaker 1: loving the niagram for a long time. If you need
Speaker 1: any further proof of how hot it is. The other week,
Speaker 1: in fact, just the other day, I was listening to
Speaker 1: my friend Gwyneth, who's one just so that you know,
Speaker 1: and one is for She was interviewing Andrew Huberman, who
Speaker 1: is like self. You can imagine the excellent bullshit that
Speaker 1: was on that podcast. It was fabulous, and they were
Speaker 1: talking about anyagrams and gwyn It says to him do
Speaker 1: you use them in hiring? And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god.
Speaker 2: Don't say that out loud, babe.
Speaker 1: So there are going to be a few experts who
Speaker 1: are listening to this show and they're going to hear
Speaker 1: the way that I describe aneagrams now and they're going
Speaker 1: to go, Holly, you're wrong. I know there are people
Speaker 1: who spent their life studying this stuff, but I'm just
Speaker 1: talking to those amongst us who will either have to
Speaker 1: do it because we're part of like a team building
Speaker 1: thing at work and they're making us do it, or
Speaker 1: we're like feeling bossy and we want to know. Maybe
Speaker 1: we're eights that's why we're feeling bossy, or we're really curious,
Speaker 1: maybe we're forced, I don't know whatever. I think that
Speaker 1: there are reasons why. So we do it in this
Speaker 1: very basic way, which is you do a quick test
Speaker 1: on the internet. You are given a whole lot of
Speaker 1: questions and you have to rank the accuracy of this
Speaker 1: question about your personality. The kind of questions will be
Speaker 1: things like, is it important that other people like you?
Speaker 1: Do you tend to blend your personality based on the
Speaker 1: people you're with? Do you find it hard to say no?
Speaker 1: Those kind of things right, And after you've answered those
Speaker 1: for about fifteen minutes, it spits you out a list
Speaker 1: of numbers and one of them will be at the
Speaker 1: top and that is your number, and you are stuck
Speaker 1: with it. Right, So you two, did you do the test?
Speaker 1: M did you do the test? What did you find?
Speaker 4: I did do the test because you told me I
Speaker 4: had to do it, so I did have to do
Speaker 4: it for work purpose.
Speaker 1: Do you like these kind of things or not? Personality quizzies, Like,
Speaker 1: it'sn't really that different from those ones I used to
Speaker 1: do in magazines when you were a kid, and it
Speaker 1: would be like mostly a's you're excellent, mostly c's you're
Speaker 1: a punished.
Speaker 4: I was really into it when I was younger because
Speaker 4: I think that the answer to these personality tests would
Speaker 4: be like what I would be like when I grew up.
Speaker 4: And we did like the Mayas Briggs and stuff when
Speaker 4: I was younger. Now I just feel like there's so many.
Speaker 4: So the only reason I'm interested in this one is
Speaker 4: because I feel like it's the big one right now.
Speaker 1: It is there's so many, Like we did love languages,
Speaker 1: we do it all, and I feel like they're all
Speaker 1: different types of personality. And to be clear, the reason
Speaker 1: that managers love to do this and it's one. I
Speaker 1: went on my first management course like nearly twenty years
Speaker 1: ago probably, and they made us. The first thing they
Speaker 1: made us all do is a personality test. I think
Speaker 1: it was Mayas Briggs, And the reason they like to
Speaker 1: do it is because it's supposed to teach you about
Speaker 1: how to get the best out of your people.
Speaker 3: I also think like yes, but I also think with
Speaker 3: because that's sort of being replaced a bit by the enniogram.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: I did a leadership thing maybe five years ago, and
Speaker 3: we did the enneagram. I also think it's a bit
Speaker 3: of an easy trick to make you feel seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because everybody likes to talk about themselves, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: anyway back to you, when you get my answers, what
Speaker 1: did you get? I got a three, which is the achiever,
Speaker 1: and I'm about to read out the traits of myself,
Speaker 1: which will I'm sure make everybody not want to do
Speaker 1: this test. So threes are self assured, attractive.
Speaker 4: And charming, ambitious and energetic, and they can be status
Speaker 4: conscious and highly driven for advancement.
Speaker 1: That's all true.
Speaker 4: Wait, we are diplomatic and poison but can also be
Speaker 4: overly concerned with their image and what others think.
Speaker 1: Of them. Now I need to read out the negatives.
Speaker 1: Like knowing you as I do, as I have in
Speaker 1: a professional capacity, I for he is, I would say
Speaker 1: tick tick tick on all those things, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Just wait, okay.
Speaker 4: Negatives Fearing failure and humiliation. They can be exploitative and
Speaker 4: opportunistic and willing to do whatever it takes to preserve
Speaker 4: the illusion.
Speaker 1: Of their superiority.
Speaker 4: Devious and deceptives so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will
Speaker 4: not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to
Speaker 4: triumph over them, delusionally jealous of others, become vindictive, attempting
Speaker 4: to ruin others' happiness, relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds
Speaker 4: him of their own shortcomings and failures, and it just
Speaker 4: ends on psychopathic and murder.
Speaker 1: So am, if you are being really honest with yourself,
Speaker 1: is any of that true? Come on, now, are you
Speaker 1: a jealous person? Are you a jealous person? Do you
Speaker 1: sometimes sneakily find a way to make yourself seem more
Speaker 1: important than you are? Like, come on, I think that
Speaker 1: can be a bit jealous, But to destroy other people's
Speaker 1: happiness and then to make it worse, I looked up
Speaker 1: other celebrities who are also threes, Bill Clinton, Prince William,
Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, O J. Simpson, Oh J. Simpson, Kevin Spacey,
Speaker 1: dear Rachel Berry from Glee, as as far as I
Speaker 1: know any Don Draper from mad Men and Lady Gaga.
Speaker 1: I love this celebrity angle because as if anybody really
Speaker 1: like Don Draper hot tep not a real person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did one and it was like, Jane Austen is
Speaker 1: this oh laugh from Frozen? Is that? I'm like, you know, Claire.
Speaker 3: I would just like to point out em that as
Speaker 3: somebody who has done an enneagram. Of course I did
Speaker 3: a proper enneagram course of like maybe ten years ago.
Speaker 3: But I will say what you've just read out. The
Speaker 3: idea is there's a healthy version of you and an
Speaker 3: unhealthy version of you.
Speaker 2: So I just want you to know that murder would be.
Speaker 1: That ually oh J. Simpson, though he does bear that out.
Speaker 3: Okay, true, So just make sure things don't go down
Speaker 3: the toilet for you.
Speaker 2: You might start to murder.
Speaker 1: But again, I'm also attractive and charming. Well those things
Speaker 1: are true about you. Class Stevens. How did you go.
Speaker 3: So I was a five when I did it professionally
Speaker 3: a few years ago.
Speaker 2: Because Holly is gonna mock me.
Speaker 1: I am going to mock her. She did the three
Speaker 1: times to get the numbers she wanted, which I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people do that.
Speaker 2: So it was a five.
Speaker 1: That's so five of you, five of her. That's exactly it.
Speaker 3: Then I did it again for work like five years ago,
Speaker 3: and I was still a five. But then when I
Speaker 3: did it at the crack of dawn this morning as
Speaker 3: I was half asleep, I was a four and.
Speaker 2: That made me feel weird.
Speaker 1: So what's a five?
Speaker 3: So well, a five is the investigator. No thing wise,
Speaker 3: So fives are alert, insightful, and curious.
Speaker 2: They are able.
Speaker 1: To thank you so much.
Speaker 3: They are able to concentrate and focus on developing. I
Speaker 3: mean concentrate and focus is a bit of an issue
Speaker 3: that I can't do either of those things. But if
Speaker 3: they were to focus, they would be able to focus
Speaker 3: on developing complex ideas and skills, the independent, innovative.
Speaker 2: And inventive.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: They can become preoccupied with their thoughts, and.
Speaker 1: That's definitely true. It's such a sagittarius.
Speaker 3: This is where mine goes into M's territory, they become detached,
Speaker 3: yet high strung and intense. They typically have problems with eccentricity, nihilism,
Speaker 3: and isolation. Nihilism. Yes, yes, eccentricity. I don't think I'm
Speaker 3: that eccentric.
Speaker 1: Remember when you remember when you wouldn't wear shoes in
Speaker 1: the office? Centric, Yeah, that's eccentric. People who want to
Speaker 1: fit in wear shoes in the office. People who are
Speaker 1: comfortable a little bit weird, And I don't bring any
Speaker 1: judgment to that because they're my favorite kind of people
Speaker 1: are like, who cares if their boss is wearing shoes?
Speaker 1: That's you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think eccentric people don't know they're eccentric.
Speaker 1: That's good to know.
Speaker 3: So at their best, visionary pioneers, often ahead of their time,
Speaker 3: they will see the world in an entirely new way.
Speaker 1: Nice. No, she hasn't got to the bad bits yet.
Speaker 2: The bad bits, so okay. The thing I do relate
Speaker 2: to about.
Speaker 3: It is like information being the primary currency of safety,
Speaker 3: so you believe that if you just understand how everything works,
Speaker 3: you will be prepared to handle life. But this is
Speaker 3: the other bit I do think is very me the
Speaker 3: relentless pursuit of knowledge is actually about deep insecurities about
Speaker 3: your ability to function in the world. So fives feel
Speaker 3: they do not have an ability to do things as
Speaker 3: well as others, so their identity is built around having
Speaker 3: ideas as like.
Speaker 2: A fence mechanism.
Speaker 3: So basically, my if mine was going down the murder route,
Speaker 3: I'd be like a hermit. I'm quite I'd be like
Speaker 3: really eccentric hermit, like crazy hair like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So far, Oh, my friends, this aneogram shit is real.
Speaker 1: Amy Pohlar is right and Gwyneth is right. These are
Speaker 1: You're describing yourselves pretty perfectly to me, but really rude.
Speaker 3: I do think it changes over time because both the
Speaker 3: achiever and the individualists have better social skills than a five.
Speaker 3: And I think maybe as I've gotten because it's like
Speaker 3: do you There was something about like do you build
Speaker 3: relationships with people? Like basically can you network? And my
Speaker 3: answer five ten years ago would have been no, But
Speaker 3: my answer now is like, yeah, you're really good at it,
Speaker 3: but like not in as, but you just do because
Speaker 3: you've been You're more comfortable because you've been in an
Speaker 3: industry for longer. So and with yours, I'm a bit
Speaker 3: like you are that at this point in your life.
Speaker 1: But maybe later I won't murder somewhere exactly. It's interesting,
Speaker 1: right because I have done this test a few times
Speaker 1: because I did like my number, like lad And the
Speaker 1: thing is is, every time I've done it, it tells
Speaker 1: me I'm the same thing. So I just have to
Speaker 1: accept by fate, I am a nine. I am a
Speaker 1: solid nine. I am a high nine, and nine is
Speaker 1: a peacemaker, which is high. So many peacemakers fucking boring
Speaker 1: read it out because it's so you so my my
Speaker 1: superpowers are the good thing, because all of these have
Speaker 1: good and bad. I have an incredible ability head. Look
Speaker 1: as long as it says incredible ability, I'm in. Oh,
Speaker 1: we all like, yes, I'm so nigh to see all
Speaker 1: sides of an argument. You're non judgmental, easy going and steady.
Speaker 1: It's that's so yummy. That is true, unfortunately, but it's
Speaker 1: very boring. You might find it hard to say no. Look,
Speaker 1: I tried so like last year, I found I made
Speaker 1: my word of the year nup and I failed terribly.
Speaker 1: Or voice your own needs because you don't want to
Speaker 1: cause conflict. Sometimes nines merge with other people's preferences to
Speaker 1: keep things moving smoothly. All of those things are one
Speaker 1: hundred percent me.
Speaker 4: It just tells me like all nines are British.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so funny. I have a very
Speaker 1: strong inner critic. I have a strong sense of how
Speaker 1: things should be. I'm allergic to confrontation and argument, and
Speaker 1: I'm always always trying to find somewhere peaceful to retreat
Speaker 1: to inside my head and in the world. All those
Speaker 1: things are really, really true. It's why I like my garden.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that until two years ago, and
Speaker 1: why I like reading and art and music and shit.
Speaker 1: All of those things are true. But I was so
Speaker 1: unhappy about it. I kept trying to game it. But
Speaker 1: then when it gave me my flaws, that's when I
Speaker 1: knew it was one hundred percent right, because all these
Speaker 1: things are so true about me, and anyone who works
Speaker 1: with me, and especially as ever tried to manage me,
Speaker 1: would know. Right the art of the I can't say no,
Speaker 1: but I say maybe all the time. Maybe we'll see
Speaker 1: it actually said. The words we'll see are you're most used.
Speaker 1: And anyone who knows me, any of my friends, would know,
Speaker 1: they'll be like do you want to do this thing
Speaker 1: on that thing on that day? And I'm like, we'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see. That's literally what I say all the time,
Speaker 1: like maybe I'll tell you later. Like I can't say no,
Speaker 1: so I say maybe. And that's really annoying. The procrastination
Speaker 1: pivot you how you masterfully finish unimportant tasks to avoid
Speaker 1: the thing that actually matters.
Speaker 3: See, hello, absolutely, that is very very very nice.
Speaker 1: It's like got a book to write, but hey, suddenly
Speaker 1: I need to replant that gun. But the stone wall.
Speaker 1: This is very me understanding the passive aggressive, stubbornness that
Speaker 1: emerges when you feel pushed or controlled. That is one
Speaker 1: hundred percent me. If you ask me as she would
Speaker 1: go that that's her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a bit of rebel.
Speaker 1: Like when somebody tries to like then I get very
Speaker 1: like and I don't say I won't say yeah because
Speaker 1: I'm passive aggressive idiot. To tell me what to do,
Speaker 1: I'll just get very stubborn. Peacemakers can lose their eye
Speaker 1: into a Wii, so like they lose sight of what
Speaker 1: they want and they think to the group very interesting.
Speaker 1: So all those things are true. So now I'm just
Speaker 1: going to walk around at the time, going I'm so nine.
Speaker 1: So I see, I see the value in this because
Speaker 1: we've got to get to whether or not any of
Speaker 1: this is important, whether it's just like star signs and
Speaker 1: we like talking about ourselves. I see the value in
Speaker 1: this to a point because the things that I know,
Speaker 1: we all know. No matter how old you are and
Speaker 1: what your life stage is and what the challenges are
Speaker 1: you facing in that minute, there are things you need
Speaker 1: to fix about your life or get better at. So,
Speaker 1: for example, and nine needs to get better at saying nope, right,
Speaker 1: I need to get better at stop killing. You need
Speaker 1: to get better at not ruining everybody else, like to
Speaker 1: improve yours. I'm just thinking about the time that em
Speaker 1: carried around her Best New Talent award. She put it
Speaker 1: on the podcast, and I'm just like, she's such, what
Speaker 1: is it? Three? I am such a three? Such a three?
Speaker 1: I love it. But it's like, so in theory, the
Speaker 1: positive side of this kind of thing is it supposed
Speaker 1: to make you recognize that in yourself and so therefore
Speaker 1: work towards like working with your weaknesses. So is it
Speaker 1: scientifically correct?
Speaker 3: So when I was studying psychology in our first tutorial.
Speaker 3: They did something where they gave everybody did a personality test,
Speaker 3: and then they gave everybody in the next lesson a
Speaker 3: paragraph and then you wrote about how much you felt
Speaker 3: like it reflected you.
Speaker 2: Surprise, price turned out they gave everyone.
Speaker 3: The same paragraph and everybody was like, yes, self identification, Yes,
Speaker 3: I do think there's a lot of that with enny agram.
Speaker 3: So Holly you reading that out, I'm like, that's me.
Speaker 3: That's me, like less with the murder, We're not.
Speaker 1: Like the only achiever in the whole world.
Speaker 3: But the idea of people being ambitious and then wanting
Speaker 3: to protect their image, like that's universal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but you know how like I was
Speaker 1: pissed off about mine because I wanted one that was
Speaker 1: like you're an amazingly successful genius and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: you're just good at making people feel nice, Like what
Speaker 1: about that side?
Speaker 3: Well, so you will be happy to know. The enneagram
Speaker 3: is not a scientifically validated personality test, and it ranks
Speaker 3: well below other models in terms of evidence and reliability.
Speaker 1: Thank god.
Speaker 2: And it is what about all of.
Speaker 3: It is based on a mix of spiritual traditions and
Speaker 3: psychological ideas, and what it's good for is a storytelling
Speaker 3: framework or conversations about growth, but it's not kind of
Speaker 3: made of anything. But it's not about scientific rigor. So
Speaker 3: there's many reasons for that. One is that it hasn't
Speaker 3: been shown to be addictive of anything, so like your
Speaker 3: behavior or job performance or life outcomes, it hasn't been
Speaker 3: found to be reliable across time. I me, and if
Speaker 3: you're interested, the most scientifically backed personality test is actually
Speaker 3: the Big five Ocean, So that's openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, neuroticism.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to get freaking agreeableness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to get agreeableness.
Speaker 1: Not doing any more tests, I'm going to be disagreeable.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be disagreeable. I'm not doing any more tests.
Speaker 3: But that is really predictive across cultures, across time. So
Speaker 3: if you kind of want something that's got a lot
Speaker 3: more evidence, I'd probably go down that route, even though
Speaker 3: you might feel like it's less interesting, but I do
Speaker 3: think it's really interesting. I categorize everybody via those five traits.
Speaker 3: Where I live, there will often just be an unexplained queue,
Speaker 3: and honestly, I reckon every Saturday. I go for a
Speaker 3: walk and I walk past corner and there's a sneaking
Speaker 3: line of hundreds of people. So well, no, more often
Speaker 3: than not, it's an influencer doing some kind of pop up,
Speaker 3: of course, And what do they do pop ups on,
Speaker 3: like for a brand like some like sometimes on like
Speaker 3: the Beach, it'll be a sunscreen brand and they've got
Speaker 3: some influencer or there was.
Speaker 2: There was an ice cream one a.
Speaker 3: Little while ago with a really like popular influencer, and
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting because I saw the queue
Speaker 3: and then I walked past the shop front and she
Speaker 3: was out the back talking to someone.
Speaker 1: Was it Tyra Banks?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, no, very young influencer. But I
Speaker 3: was like, honey, there's.
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people waiting for you.
Speaker 1: Busy.
Speaker 3: But I'm always interested by what motivates people to line
Speaker 3: up for so so so long. Maybe they're hoping to
Speaker 3: get a photo with the person or meet them in person,
Speaker 3: meet them in person, and they.
Speaker 2: Will literally wait hours.
Speaker 3: The's got me thinking about what I would queue for,
Speaker 3: because I would not cue for that.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because I think, you know, how we
Speaker 1: live in this immediacy culture of like we can press
Speaker 1: a button and get everything. Queuing feels like it's back
Speaker 1: in a way, because like when you go to a
Speaker 1: major shopping center, there will be people queuing for a
Speaker 1: pop up or whatever, and I feel that it's all
Speaker 1: about fomo. It's fake. It's sort of fake demand created right,
Speaker 1: and it's like people are into it. They like the
Speaker 1: whole experience of standing in the queue.
Speaker 3: It's the same reason apparently some shops, especially like new shops,
Speaker 3: are designed to be like intentionally small, so that it
Speaker 3: always looks over crowded.
Speaker 1: It's why the influencer was talking to the person at
Speaker 1: the back. She wanted the queue to be big.
Speaker 2: Oh so you're smart, people would cuy for you, Holly.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Holly. What would you queue for coffee? There's
Speaker 1: pretty much the only thing my friend always says to me.
Speaker 1: Who's not a coffee person, you know, when you like
Speaker 1: sometimes where I live, there's only a few coffee shops
Speaker 1: and it might be a busy holiday weekend and you'll
Speaker 1: go and auder your coffee and they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's going to be fifteen minutes or there's a really
Speaker 1: long wait, and I'll be like fine, But my friend
Speaker 1: alway says, there is nothing else you would queue for
Speaker 1: and wait for all that time, except for coffee, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's true. But then I was also thinking
Speaker 1: about tickets to stuff. So people always complain about those
Speaker 1: online queues we have now where it's like you log
Speaker 1: in and it's like I want to see Harry Styles
Speaker 1: and it'll say you are fourteen thousand, three hundred and
Speaker 1: whatever in this queue, and how annoying it is, and
Speaker 1: you're there for like three hours. But when I was eleven,
Speaker 1: I stood in an actual physical queue for tickets to
Speaker 1: see Duran DuRane gen X reference four eight hours. We
Speaker 1: got there before. It was late in the morning with
Speaker 1: our sleeping bag on a school day, no whatuld a
Speaker 1: bit of Saturday for sure, and we were there for
Speaker 1: eight hours. And when I got to the front of
Speaker 1: the queue, tickets is sold out, just sold out. So
Speaker 1: when people complained about online queues, I'm a bit like, mate,
Speaker 1: you know how it used to bear. Yeah, people queue
Speaker 1: for in my neighborhood, my old neighborhood in Sydney. They
Speaker 1: would definitely cue for bread, fancy bread from a fancy bakery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Iggy's on Bronze Road. That's the one people would always
Speaker 1: queue for. That, but I personally will only cue for
Speaker 1: coffee and Harry Styles.
Speaker 4: I will queue for anything and everything. A few weeks ago,
Speaker 4: I stood in a queue for two hours for a
Speaker 4: chicken wrap.
Speaker 1: I know you don't understand. It was a really important
Speaker 1: chicken red it was so important.
Speaker 4: So Ramadan was a few weeks ago, and they do
Speaker 4: the La Kember markets in Sydney, and.
Speaker 1: You were so excited about going to that. Did you
Speaker 1: spend the whole two hour standing in a queue?
Speaker 4: I kind of left my friends in the q and
Speaker 4: and explored and got more food. Somebody would someone had
Speaker 4: to be in the queue. The best best chicken rote
Speaker 4: you've ever tasted. They only do it for the market,
Speaker 4: so you only get it once a year. So worth
Speaker 4: it and I had to have it. It was amazing,
Speaker 4: so worth it. I've queued for twenty five minutes.
Speaker 1: For a Labooboo. I don't know where it is now,
Speaker 1: but I enjoyed the experience moment. It was very important
Speaker 1: and I didn't even know what we were queuing for.
Speaker 1: I just stood out of PopMart and joined the queue,
Speaker 1: and then I asked someone and they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: the new labuobus are coming out, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I wait, and then I get there, and then she
Speaker 1: gets she goes what's the laboob?
Speaker 4: And then at the counter they were like what would
Speaker 4: you like? And I was like, why was I in
Speaker 4: that queue? And he was like, oh, for this labum
Speaker 4: and I was like, yeah, that one.
Speaker 1: That's what I want. That's what I want. What these
Speaker 1: people want, that's what I want to They always queue
Speaker 1: for cafes, like really nice breakfast cafes, probably like about
Speaker 1: forty five minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really way around.
Speaker 1: It's for a good scrambled Will you not going next
Speaker 1: door to the one that doesn't have the queue? No,
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't they have a queue? Clearly not that good.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I love cues.
Speaker 4: I love the experience of a queue. I love listening
Speaker 4: to other people's conversation. You can't get angry at people
Speaker 4: in q's because then you to stand there with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah time, Yeah, well yeah exactly. What about theme parks?
Speaker 1: I would kill yeah, ride.
Speaker 3: I was going to say I would queue for two things.
Speaker 3: One theme park, absolutely, because it's like being in a
Speaker 3: Q is just part of the experience.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I think, you.
Speaker 3: Know, how really rich people get that pass where they
Speaker 3: don't have to queue, Like that's lovely, but like I
Speaker 3: want to teach my child that that the queue is
Speaker 3: part of it because you watch the ride a million time.
Speaker 1: A two hour queue for a five minute ride, and
Speaker 1: sometimes they might like gift you with like a steal
Speaker 1: bar or a wall to lean on in the queue. Wow.
Speaker 1: But it's funny because it's like I when I was young,
Speaker 1: I would queue for nightclubs, right, like, obviously this is
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and we used to tell ourselves
Speaker 1: as we were freezing our tits off in some really
Speaker 1: stupid outfit and you know, it's minus five, and we
Speaker 1: used to tell ourselves, you never remember the queue, And
Speaker 1: that's true, like you and I later in life, I
Speaker 1: remember the thinking that about labor, Like I was like,
Speaker 1: you don't remember the pain so much as the baby,
Speaker 1: but like you don't remember the queue outside the nightclub, Yes,
Speaker 1: as much as you remember the time you had in
Speaker 1: such Yes.
Speaker 3: And that leads me to my second thing that I
Speaker 3: will always queue for and not ask questions. I will
Speaker 3: queue overseas when the stakes are seeing something I may
Speaker 3: never have the opportunity.
Speaker 1: To see, So the Mona Lisa or there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I will cue.
Speaker 1: So I remember the Mona Lisa. She's quite small, but.
Speaker 3: Like even getting into the loop. Depending on the time
Speaker 3: of year, it might be a bit of a cue.
Speaker 3: But I remember the queue to see Ann Frank's house
Speaker 3: in Amsterdam was huge, and we had had a back
Speaker 3: and forth about do we line up?
Speaker 2: Do we not line up? I was like, you line up,
Speaker 2: You're always line up.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I reckon there would be an any
Speaker 1: gram answer to that of like which numbers would just
Speaker 1: go fuck it, let's go and have a drink, and
Speaker 1: which ones would be like, no, we have come to
Speaker 1: see this, we will see it.
Speaker 2: I always line up.
Speaker 1: The three is definitely gonna cue because they want to
Speaker 1: achieve exactly.
Speaker 4: And then take photos and showrun how much better my
Speaker 4: life is and how your life is really bad.
Speaker 1: And also I might murder you later.
Speaker 3: See I'm wise, so I need to see historic things
Speaker 3: because I may be historic.
Speaker 1: That's true, So you might be the Mona Lisa out
Speaker 1: loud is in a moment.
Speaker 4: There are very specific things you shouldn't do an hour
Speaker 4: before a date, and you're about to learn from all
Speaker 4: of my mistakes. American psychiatrist doctor k was interviewed on
Speaker 4: the Andrew Huberman podcast and so much, and they were
Speaker 4: talking about love and dating and some of the obstacles
Speaker 4: in modern love, and he said, Andrew Kay said, he's
Speaker 4: a one, by.
Speaker 1: The way, when my reformers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Doctor Kay said, one of the reasons that it's
Speaker 4: harder to fall in love is because the feeling of
Speaker 4: being in love fells our brain dopamine. However, due to
Speaker 4: our dopamine system getting messed up with social media and
Speaker 4: all the time that we spend on technology, it becomes
Speaker 4: neurochemically harder to fall in love. So what he does
Speaker 4: is he tells his patience to go for a walk
Speaker 4: an hour before they go on a date and to
Speaker 4: not touch any technology.
Speaker 1: Right, is an hour long enough to do that? To think,
Speaker 1: like an hour to like to sort out the detox
Speaker 1: dopamine stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, as you know, I'm a three, so I don't
Speaker 4: really care about.
Speaker 1: What's happening to you personally.
Speaker 4: What I care about is that you're not messaging me
Speaker 4: in an hour before our day to let me know
Speaker 4: that it's still happening. So now I'm freaking out. I'm
Speaker 4: already done up because it's an hour for our date
Speaker 4: and they're not messaging me back because Andrew Hubberman said,
Speaker 4: don't do.
Speaker 1: That, don't message her. What do you think? Do you
Speaker 1: think it's good advice? I know? No, who are you
Speaker 1: messaging in an hour before? Is the person I'm going
Speaker 1: to say before? I assume that if you've got all
Speaker 1: the way to an hour hour before the date thinking
Speaker 1: the date's going to happen, it's.
Speaker 4: No, it's more like an iss, like I need to
Speaker 4: tell them, Hey, I'm just about to leave, see you soon.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I need them to say that so I'm I know
Speaker 1: we're in it. We're in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a last minute cancelation. I think the social
Speaker 3: media thing is a good idea not to look at
Speaker 3: social media before a date, Like I do this when
Speaker 3: I'm about to do, like go to an event, or
Speaker 3: even if i'm like last Weekend was going on stage
Speaker 3: hollywo was as well, And I don't look at my phone.
Speaker 3: Not for the dopamine thing, but because there have been
Speaker 3: times where I'm about to do something that feels high
Speaker 3: stakes and I'm on my phone and I just see
Speaker 3: something that ruins my confidence.
Speaker 2: Like it's something totally.
Speaker 3: It can be like a photo of somebody or just
Speaker 3: just something that makes me feel self conscious or inadequate.
Speaker 1: A photo of a three achieving something yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I become murderous. It's not good for them
Speaker 2: the event, So I think it's good for both those reasons.
Speaker 4: Well, that makes sense because your algorithm is always algorithming.
Speaker 4: So I guess if you're going on a date with
Speaker 4: someone and then you see a TikTok of some guy going.
Speaker 1: These red flags are people always.
Speaker 4: Forget and it's describing that guide to a t then
Speaker 4: that might put you off. But it reminded me that
Speaker 4: as a serial data that I subconsciously have all these
Speaker 4: rules in my head of things that you should definitely
Speaker 4: not do an hour before the date.
Speaker 1: So Andrew, get on your podcast sculling several glasses of prosecca.
Speaker 4: Yes, one of them is don't do tequila shot an
Speaker 4: hour before the date, because you feel good in the moment,
Speaker 4: but an hour later.
Speaker 1: It also can skew the judgment of whether or not
Speaker 1: this person is attractive and interesting.
Speaker 4: I have, okay, unpopular opinion, but this is from experience.
Speaker 4: An hour before the date, if you see a juicy
Speaker 4: pimple in your face, do pop it?
Speaker 1: Do? Yeah? Do not pop it?
Speaker 4: On the way out or do not see it on
Speaker 4: the way out. Okay, I need to tell you about
Speaker 4: this date. I went on how a juicy pimple on
Speaker 4: my face. I was like, no, it's going to ruin everything.
Speaker 4: I'll put some makeup over.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 4: Went on a date, really vibe with the guy. We
Speaker 4: were having so much fun. I did the flirty thing
Speaker 4: of like tucking my hair behind my ears. As I
Speaker 4: went to tuck my hair, my nail grazed the pimple
Speaker 4: on my cheek and I pushed it up my cheek
Speaker 4: and into my hair, and I just felt this whole
Speaker 4: right side on my face completely wet, and I I
Speaker 4: could see his eyelight, his eyeline.
Speaker 1: Following my hand, and it's staying there. It stayed where
Speaker 1: my cheek was you pop the pimple in a date?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 1: Did he call? I didn't hear from a game? Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's a hard one though, because I'd often do that,
Speaker 1: like before I'm coming to work or something. I might
Speaker 1: be looking closely in the me and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: and then you know if you do go in, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have red blotches. So leave it, leave the steaks.
Speaker 1: Leave it.
Speaker 4: Also face related, do not try any new skin care
Speaker 4: an hour before the day.
Speaker 1: You'll get a rushed own dire eyebrows. I've done that before.
Speaker 1: Same died by eyebrow because I tinted my eyebrows because
Speaker 1: my eyebrows are non existent. And this was before an
Speaker 1: event too, because I'm sad like Claire and haven't been
Speaker 1: on a date. Well a should I go on dates
Speaker 1: with Brent? But like, you know, you know, I've got
Speaker 1: trivia Thursday, We've got trivia Thursdays. I'd never pop a
Speaker 1: piple before Trivia Thursdays. But I died my eyebrows and
Speaker 1: then this makeup honest lady just looked at me and
Speaker 1: she was like, what did you do? I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I thought they needed tinting because you can't see them
Speaker 1: and all the rest of it. She's like, we're going
Speaker 1: to have to try and fix that with foundation now,
Speaker 1: and she had to paint them out.
Speaker 3: Because you know what you didn't do because I don't
Speaker 3: do it either. You didn't put vasoline around them. Did
Speaker 3: you to stop the dye going on your skin because
Speaker 3: you're too.
Speaker 2: Fast and loose. I'm the same. I'm like, oh, just
Speaker 2: be really precise, and then I end up.
Speaker 3: With this weird monobrow like tattooed thing because I didn't
Speaker 3: do the vasoline.
Speaker 4: One time an hour before a date, I got a
Speaker 4: lymphatic drainage massage.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 4: It really makes your bows move, but only like an
Speaker 4: hour after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there's things you shouldn't eat, you shouldn't in
Speaker 1: the hour before you go on, you don't.
Speaker 4: You also don't want to hold everything in because then
Speaker 4: you're get a hemorrhoid.
Speaker 1: Which has also happened on a day. You need to
Speaker 1: check with doctor Claire if that's true. But anyway, have
Speaker 1: you got any thoughts about things you shouldn't do before.
Speaker 2: You Okay, massive thing for me.
Speaker 3: Don't try and paint your nails because you are too
Speaker 3: impatient and I cannot not use my hands for however
Speaker 3: long the ambiguous amount of time it is that it
Speaker 3: will dry, so they always end up so so, so bad,
Speaker 3: and you'd rather just have bare nails than all the mess.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have a fight with your mom, best friend X. Shouldn't.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't anything that's going to ruin your mood like that, Like,
Speaker 1: don't get into it if you if you're WhatsApp group
Speaker 1: starts popping off but you've got to be in the zone.
Speaker 1: Just ignore. I agree.
Speaker 4: I also think don't tell your friends that you're going
Speaker 4: on a date an hour before, because then it gives
Speaker 4: them an hour to like really vet that person and
Speaker 4: you have to answer the questions. Just tell them as
Speaker 4: you're walking out the door.
Speaker 1: Question, do you if you're going on a date with someone?
Speaker 1: Do you? Do you tell your friends? And do you
Speaker 1: tell them who it is so that they do do
Speaker 1: that and get in your head about it. Oh, I've
Speaker 1: seen that guy. Oh I don't know about that guy,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. No, I only tell them who it
Speaker 1: is after the date. But I do have them on
Speaker 1: Find my Friends, so they track my location for a
Speaker 1: safety thing. So you would text before we leave, leaving
Speaker 1: now leaving for a day on it. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: after I'll be like it was this guy, and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I dated that guy in twenty twenty one. Yeah, great,
Speaker 1: Sunny is very small. We will never talk of him again.
Speaker 2: After the break.
Speaker 3: Our best recommendations to get you through the Easter long weekend.
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun. This is my
Speaker 1: best recommendation.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to set you up with
Speaker 3: our best recommendations.
Speaker 2: I'm going to start with m you have been on
Speaker 2: a hot streak.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'd say, really setting the tone with the recommendations
Speaker 3: because you consume content like no one I've ever.
Speaker 1: Met me to consume a lot of content.
Speaker 4: And I do have to issue an apology for out
Speaker 4: louders because I was made aware by a lovely out
Speaker 4: louder that there is also a twenty twenty one Bruce
Speaker 4: Willis film called Deadlock. That's deadlock with a K, not
Speaker 4: Deadlock with the H. The TV show that I recommend
Speaker 4: that I recommended last week. I didn't recommend that film.
Speaker 4: I did ask her if it was good and she
Speaker 4: said no.
Speaker 1: She came in to be like, EM, why did you
Speaker 1: send me to this movie? And you were like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not what I meant. She said that she spent
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes watching it and her partner was like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? And she was like, I trust
Speaker 1: EM's recommendation. Let's take it rough. This doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: a quirky crime comedy in Tasmania. No, but Deadlock with
Speaker 1: the H is a TV show that is very very good.
Speaker 1: Started watching it now, are you enjoying? You absolutely loving it?
Speaker 1: All your records lately? Oh my god, how to get
Speaker 1: to Heaven from Belfast?
Speaker 4: So I've got another TV show to recommend this week
Speaker 4: on Prime Video.
Speaker 1: It's a new one. It's called Young Sherlock. It is
Speaker 1: on Prime Video.
Speaker 4: It stars Hero Finds Tiffin And if that name sounds familiar,
Speaker 4: it's because he's Ray find nephew. Oh so the not
Speaker 4: the character, the start, the starter, the star he plays
Speaker 4: Sherlock Holmes and his other uncle, Joseph Finds, plays his dad.
Speaker 4: And if he sounds familiar, he's the commander in Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure he was in shakespeare line anyway. So
Speaker 1: it's a big It's a big handsome guy. He's very handy,
Speaker 1: always like a bit of a creepy, creepy dude. But
Speaker 1: I just love to keep it in the family, don't they.
Speaker 1: They're like, it must be a really good job because
Speaker 1: if like I was watching Love Story Meryl Streep's daughters,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, imagine being Meryl Streep's daughter, Who's she's
Speaker 1: the best act of all time. Anyway, I'm digressing, but
Speaker 1: it's so true. So I've only found this after the case.
Speaker 4: But it's a big NEPO show, but you can't tell
Speaker 4: when you're watching it.
Speaker 1: It's really really good.
Speaker 4: So it is about Sherlock Holmes when he was younger
Speaker 4: at Oxford. All his professors start to die and then
Speaker 4: he goes on this big like adventure to figure out
Speaker 4: how they're dying, why they're dying.
Speaker 1: It's just really really fun.
Speaker 4: I would say it's like a family show, except that
Speaker 4: it is a few swear words in there?
Speaker 3: Do I need to have any other? Because when when
Speaker 3: I hit this is the thing about shows now, when
Speaker 3: I hear young Sherlock, I'm like, is there some Sherlock
Speaker 3: universe that I'm not aware of?
Speaker 2: Where I'm going to be lacking things?
Speaker 1: You do know who Slock home? I do an investigator.
Speaker 1: I like him, he is a five, he's a far
Speaker 1: like you.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, young, like, is there other related stuff?
Speaker 2: When there's storylines?
Speaker 1: I need to know there are like some few little
Speaker 1: bits of that, like address the Sherlock universe.
Speaker 4: But you're not going to be like, what are they
Speaker 4: talking about? Okay, like you will understand it. So it's
Speaker 4: him and his best friend James Moriarty when they're older
Speaker 4: become like sworn enemies. But they're best friends when they
Speaker 4: were younger, and they're just like on this big adventure.
Speaker 4: And they're both very good looking, which is arguably the
Speaker 4: most important thing.
Speaker 3: Oh, beautiful, beautiful, Okay, I need to recommend The Gambler
Speaker 3: by J. P. Pomari. I'm probably saying that wrong. I
Speaker 3: think it's no, it's not Pommyre. It's not Pommere. It
Speaker 3: is Maury and he rolls the art and it sounds
Speaker 3: beautiful when he says it, and silly when I say it.
Speaker 1: Sorry, but you're say it's not Italian.
Speaker 3: But you'll see now that I've said it, you'll see
Speaker 3: his name on book cover.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay.
Speaker 3: So he's an award winning author originally from New Zealand
Speaker 3: who now lives in Melbourne. And books of his you
Speaker 3: might have already read include In The Clearing, The Last
Speaker 3: Guests Tell Me Lies or seventeen years Later. And he's
Speaker 3: also had two of his books adapted for series on
Speaker 3: Stan and Disney Plus. But The Gambler just came out
Speaker 3: and I read an early copy in literally two days.
Speaker 3: It is set in America and it follows a private
Speaker 3: investigator who is looking at quite an unusual case because
Speaker 3: an otherwise lovely woman in her sixties has opened fire
Speaker 3: at a political rally, shooting a promising young university student
Speaker 3: before being shot dead herself. There doesn't seem to be
Speaker 3: any motive except some rumors that Barb who's the shooter,
Speaker 3: was spending a lot of time on Facebook and getting
Speaker 3: more and more persuaded by conspiracy.
Speaker 1: Lots of things we've been talking about lately, I know.
Speaker 3: So the thing I loved most about this book that
Speaker 3: people who have read other books of his will recognize
Speaker 3: is that there's an incredible twist, a master of the twist.
Speaker 3: But it challenges every possible stereotype you could have about
Speaker 3: different kinds of people in the US. So you might
Speaker 3: have a stereotype about the kind of person who carries
Speaker 3: a gun, or the kind of person who lives in
Speaker 3: the Midwest, or the kind of person who's highly educated,
Speaker 3: whatever it is, it turns all of it on its
Speaker 3: head in a really humanizing way. And he's able to
Speaker 3: express a character's motivations in.
Speaker 2: This really believable.
Speaker 3: Way, even when they're the villain. So if you love
Speaker 3: Jane Harper, then you'll love the Gambler and you'll race
Speaker 3: through it.
Speaker 1: I've got a book as well, So we were heaving
Speaker 1: on the books this week because I've been waiting for
Speaker 1: this book to come out to tell you about it,
Speaker 1: because so many out louders are going to fricking love
Speaker 1: this book. It's called The Nocturnals and it's by Francis Whiting.
Speaker 1: And Francis Whiting is a journo from Queensland who is
Speaker 1: the most beautiful writer. She has a really popular column
Speaker 1: that she's had for one hundred years, so she's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a Brisbane legend. And she writes novels too,
Speaker 1: but not very often like she's and so you're always
Speaker 1: excited when she writes one. I know her name she wrote, well,
Speaker 1: the last one she wrote was called some kind of Beautiful.
Speaker 1: I think her most popular, her most famous one is
Speaker 1: called Walking on Trampolines. She's just a beautiful writer. Anyway.
Speaker 1: This one is called The Nocturnals and it's going to
Speaker 1: be big because it taps into so many things that
Speaker 1: people love at the minute, nineties, nostalgia. It's like, it's
Speaker 1: not about murders and it's not about crime, which murders
Speaker 1: and crime are great, don't get me wrong, but it's
Speaker 1: not that kind of a book. Yeah. So it's about
Speaker 1: this group of school best friends in the nineties. So
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety seven, this group of sort of they've
Speaker 1: all got like issues at home or whatever, and they
Speaker 1: become this very tight group of sort of slightly eccentric
Speaker 1: outcasts called the Nocturnals. And then the book picks them
Speaker 1: up fifteen years later, so still in the world pre phones,
Speaker 1: pre internet, they're going to have a reunion for the
Speaker 1: first time. So like, this is a familiar kind of
Speaker 1: plot in a way, right, we know about the friends
Speaker 1: at school and that picking them up later, and it's
Speaker 1: just very successful in that way. But the thing about
Speaker 1: this book is the characters so beautifully crafted. The competing
Speaker 1: timeline of it isn't confusing at all. It's so deft.
Speaker 1: The chapters are really short. She manages to cram so
Speaker 1: much characterization into it. Like I just felt like I
Speaker 1: could see all these people that I knew exactly what
Speaker 1: they look like, what they smelt like, how they were
Speaker 1: and they were so real. And the thing is is,
Speaker 1: of course there's like a romantic tension because the ones
Speaker 1: who you think are going to be the couples at
Speaker 1: the beginning. Then somebody's gone off with somebody else's person
Speaker 1: and all this, and one of them has become a
Speaker 1: famous news reader in New York and he's coming back,
Speaker 1: and like, it's just so beautiful, so juicy, but such
Speaker 1: a like gorgeous read. Anyway, I love it. You'll see
Speaker 1: it because it's got these it's got this gorgeous cover
Speaker 1: with these disco balls on it that kind of all
Speaker 1: glitters and it's it's just the most beautiful book. It's
Speaker 1: called The Nocturnals by Francis Widing, and you will thank
Speaker 1: me for it. That is all we have time for
Speaker 1: on Mama Mia out Loud this week. Have a nice
Speaker 1: long weekend. You might be working, you might be staying
Speaker 1: home when you didn't think you were going to be
Speaker 1: because of the bloody petrol crisis. But whatever you're doing,
Speaker 1: we hope you're having a lovely time. And I hope
Speaker 1: you're having.
Speaker 2: Eggs, eggs, eggs. We hope you're ends that you're taking
Speaker 2: our recommendation.
Speaker 1: Starts choclud and chocolate. And remember, if you've loved this episode,
Speaker 1: whether you're watching it along on Apple Podcasts or whether
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Speaker 1: you and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4: Bye. Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 4: on which we have recorded this podcast.