WEBVTT - Part 2: We Spoke To A Victim And Her Perpetrator. This Is Kai's Story. 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 I'm Jemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations, and welcome 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:07.320 to part two of this episode revisiting a domestic violence 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.960 crime with both the victim and perpetrator twenty six years 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.040 after the fact. If you haven't listened to Elena's story, 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.720 head there first. In her late twenties, Elena was threatened 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.319 with a knife by a man she'd recently broken up with. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.160 The incident left her terrified, and it took a year 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.160 long decline in her mental health for her to finally 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:32.159 be diagnosed with PTSD. Now we're hearing from Kai, not 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.040 his real name. We're keeping him anonymous at his request, 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.840 but in our chat he didn't shy away from taking 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.800 ownership for his actions. A reminder that this is just 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.440 one story, and if you've been the victim of a 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.720 violent crime, please don't take Elena and Kai's story as instructive. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.519 In most cases, women should never reconnect with their abuser. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.280 Cutting them out of your life is essential in the 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:01.240 majority of cases. As far as we're concerned, encouraged, Kai 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.600 and Alaina's story is very unique. Because they have reconnected, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.680 We've been given a chance to really examine the crime 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.640 that shape them from all angles. To hear about how 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.440 it affected them in the aftermath, on what path their 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.479 lives took for the nearly three decades after just a Warning, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.200 Kai does delve into suicidal ideation, and there is some 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.920 strong language used in one section of our chat. Here's Kai. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.920 Thank you for joining us on True Crime Conversations. Why 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.399 are you here? Why have you decided to tell your 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:33.200 side of the story. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:43.559 I'm here to assist everybody to understand the details of 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:48.000 what happened with me and how I got there, and 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:53.640 then you know, the tragedies that was you know, that 0:01:53.720 --> 0:02:01.160 came from everything and generally, yeah, truly genuinely would like 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.560 to share my side of the story for the embedterment 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:13.320 of women. And I know that, you know, men need 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.800 to take responsibility and they need to you know, do 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:23.119 work on themselves, and most don't know how to. And 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:28.359 so because I've gone to rock bottom and committed crimes 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.920 and crime against women, I think it's really important to 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:39.000 turn up and to tell the whole storyline so that 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:45.000 everybody can look at it and you know, take something 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:52.160 from it, whether they're and you know, women problems in 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.760 that in this type of space are caused by men, 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.520 So it's only natural that men should come up to 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.760 you know, turn up for the women and you know 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.760 atone if that's the word, or to do more in 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.000 their lives because you know, men need help. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.400 It's a really heartening answer to here. Actually, thank you 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.400 for being here and for saying that. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.680 That's my pleasure, it's an honor. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.800 Before we get to that night in two thousand and 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.080 everything that happened, tell us a bit about how you 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.960 grew up your childhood, what kind of influenced you. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:36.680 I come from a very big family, and I come 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:42.760 from a family, a Samoan family, and yeah, we had 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.480 a really good upbringing. We're working class and parents worked 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.760 really hard, made all the sacrifices, and at that time 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:58.320 a lot of Pacific Island parents couldn't afford to put 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.839 this their children into private schools. In our case, we 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:08.200 were put into a private school that had turned public 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.680 and they took in big numbers of Maori and Pacific 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:20.359 Island students guys school and yeah, so I went to 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.839 that sort of setup. I didn't do well at all 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:29.680 linguistically language wise. We were always like five years behind everybody, 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.520 you know, so if we're you know, we were still 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.080 all at that time speaking Samoan from the ages of 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.680 five to nine, so you know that we carried into 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.599 our older years. If you didn't, you know, work things 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.720 out fast enough, you would take that right through your 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:53.760 whole career, and generally speaking, you would need to go 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.520 back to school again, or you know, get lower jobs, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.799 et cetera, or go to My family upbringing was really 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.640 really good. My parents were really hard working and they 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.880 made us. They put us in a good position. 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.960 What about things like drugs, alcohol, violence? When did they 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:18.600 start appearing in your life? 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:25.320 For me, it was even my brothers didn't even know that, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.400 you know, we were watching them. I was, you know, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.680 like the second youngest, and growing up as a little kid, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.800 you know, it was normal. It was just brothers and 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.960 you know, a hierarchy in the brothers. And then you know, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:48.000 it wasn't until I was about eleven and twelve that 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.240 I started seeing things like we could look out the 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.760 window and in the park and we would see other 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:00.000 Pacific Island kids. We knew, you know, that they had 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.000 had lost their way already, and so they were in 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.280 the park sniffing glue. And that's so we were Christian, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.919 you know, Sam Owens, and we went to church and that. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.080 So that's all we knew really was church and our culture. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.559 But then when we looked out the window into the park, 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.640 we would always see that. I could never thought that 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.280 I had would graduate to something like that. So essentially 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.400 I was copying what they were doing from watching from afar. 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.880 And I started petrol sniffing in the garage around about 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:42.839 twelve thirteen, and then so young, yeap. But the kids 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.960 that were out there doing that, Maori and Pacific kids, 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.239 they happened to be doing that, you know. So yeah, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.440 so it was kind of like two worlds. Clearly we're 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.600 in two worlds. And then there was a world in 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.800 the park that I could see, and I gravitated to that. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.440 And as I got older, my older brothers got older, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.520 and then they started drinking the working and drinking, so 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:11.040 it was casual working and drinking. And then what they 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.800 didn't know, as I was gradually getting older and older, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.280 that I was hiding a lot behind there, you know. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.040 And so when they would have their drinking parties or 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.160 their twenty first parties, we would be the barman, and 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.640 so we would take like about seventy six cases of beer, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.560 Me and my best friend. We would hide about ten 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.840 of them under the house. We would you know, rip 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.560 them off at the party, and then during the following 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.400 weeks we would have our own party and then we 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.680 would go to school and hide some of them at 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.800 the school. And yeah, so we lived double lives as. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.160 Very early, but it was normalized. 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.400 We hid it so well from our parents, who you know, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:07:59.800 they didn't even know. 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.280 Can you tell me a bit about how your culture 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:10.320 or your family treated women. Was respect and like equality 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.480 for women something that was demonstrated. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:17.280 To you from what I had seen generally, and this 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:26.920 is my experience, women were treated good. But men and 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.120 women if they stepped out of line, you'd get the 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:38.880 same punishment, which is severe. Like you know, yeah, you were. 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.840 Just what is stepping out of line? What would stepping 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:44.679 out of line look like for a woman? 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.040 For women? You know, not doing what people were told. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.240 This is a general thing, you know, and if you 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:59.960 don't do what you're told, then it is reinforced by violence, right, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.640 And so that was the kind of like irony or 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.280 the paradox. You know, our parents loved us and they 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.120 people can meter it out, you know, properly as it 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:21.400 should be, but there are cases where you know, you know, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.880 and I've seen it too. You know that my mother 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:28.920 would always jump in and stop my father if it 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:34.080 got out of control, and then vice versa. If my 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.959 mother got out of control, then my father would jump in. 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.120 But generally speaking, in some more culture, there's a film 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.400 coming out and it's called Tanner and it talks of 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.000 a tenor guy and he talks about it. He openly 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.480 talks about it. It's going around. He'll be in Sydney 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.520 Festival coming out, and you know, he talks about the 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:01.920 severity of the punishment, you know, and that they also 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:06.760 talk about the metering out of punishment and yeah, so 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:13.199 you would get it very badly if you continue to 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:22.240 be disruptive. So women, I couldn't really say that I 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:27.440 didn't see like purposeful things in my life in my 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.000 family because there was a male dominated But I can 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:39.240 understand from seeing things going wrong when men grow up 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:44.240 and then they take it out on their women and 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:49.480 their kids. Yeah, that's what I can see. They don't 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:56.360 hold back in terms of they're using their frustration of 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:03.880 their situations and overstepping the load on a person, which 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:09.760 is in most some oons or Pacific islands can tell 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.840 you about that situation that it's sometimes it's completely over 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:14.280 the top. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.800 Did you experience a lot of violence against you? 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:24.280 Yes, I did. I experienced you know, violence from just 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:30.360 you know, boys being boys, and then violence outside of 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:36.960 our family. Yeah, early youth gangs. So the next thing 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:42.320 we progressed into was we were Catholic boys, good private 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:47.280 school boys. But then we were in organized street youth gangs, 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:52.400 and violence was a big part of that. And we 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.880 used to train, like in every martial art form because 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.640 we're knowing we're going to be going on the street 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.080 and that other those other gangs down the road. You know, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.800 if we if we clash, it's all on. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.120 The other part of your childhood I want to touch 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.480 on is you were forced to carry a lot of 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.920 grief in your childhood. Can you touch on that because 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.000 you lost quite a few family members. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:22.280 Yeah, I lost two of my brothers in a car accident. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:28.400 So given that I was already on all of these things, 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:34.840 a very young alcoholic, you know, I guess that was 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.920 by thirteen, by you know, by sixteen, seventeen eighteen, it 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.160 was all on. But I think you know that was 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.600 around when I was twenty one years old, and as 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:52.839 a male, you know, going through all of that, it 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.480 was really hard, and I didn't have many people to 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.079 really talk about it. You know. If if I had known, 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:06.760 you know, about Louise Hay then you know, then that 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.720 would have been great. But I only found out ten 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.319 years later, you know, so I started to look at 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:17.480 other you know, forms of new age and all of that. 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:23.480 But yeah, since when my brothers died, it was very 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:28.280 hard for me because I was assisting you know, my 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:34.360 family with our family business as well. You know, I 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:40.560 was still in the church, you know, and yeah, it 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.559 was really hard to take, you know, because it was 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.160 on a night that it was at one of my 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:57.360 friends party. Yeah, so, you know, losing them started, you know, 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:02.080 a massive decline for me, and I started getting into 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.880 hitting the drugs and alcohol, you know, that whole front 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.560 that everything was okay, you know, I'm really strong, you know, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.000 big boys don't cry and all of that sort of stuff. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.720 But in hindsight, looking back at it, I started to 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.560 get into I just didn't care. I just you know, 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.000 I actually wanted to die, you know, when I look 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.480 back at it now, I really wanted to die. I 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.760 hated my hated myself. You know, I didn't know I 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:40.120 hated myself, but in everything that I did after definitely 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.280 shows that, you know, I had lost respect for myself 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:49.640 and then got into you know, drugs and alcohol and 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.360 you know that smiling face in the front, but behind 0:14:53.960 --> 0:15:01.680 there was a massive tsunami of pain, anger, frustrate, it 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:07.320 all hit and Yeah, so I used to you know, 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.720 most of the people that I hang around with were 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:14.880 related in gangs, et cetera, and was working on the doors. 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:17.680 You know, there was a lot of drugs in the 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.480 nightclubs and all of that sort of stuff. You know, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.440 there would be nights where I would take like twenty 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:30.160 Exsta sy pills and survive that. Well, I'm still here, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.240 I'm still going. I used to drink, you know, I 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:38.560 didn't know I was a real full blow and alcoholic. 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.040 When I was with one of my friends who was 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.600 a meth dealer, and he was a nice guy. He 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:45.960 seemed like a nice guy. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:46.880 A nice dealer. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.200 Yeah, he was actually a nice guy. He was very 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.120 civil to me and I understand what he was doing. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.160 But one night we were he said, oh, yeah, come over. 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.600 You know, we came over and then I wasn't a 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.920 type to buymeth at all, but by hanging around with 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.120 these guys all the time. I said, oh, try this, 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.640 and next thing, I'm trying this. And then about in 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.440 a few hours, I say, how are you feeling? Are 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.360 you feeling all right? Is there everything? I said, yeah, yeah, no, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.840 I'm fine. Yeah nothing actually, And then another three hours 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.640 then they say how are you feeling now? I said, well, yeah, 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:27.840 the same. Then nothing, I don't think it. And then 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.640 they said to me, well you must be. You must 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.840 be feeling it because you've drank one case of beer, 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.040 one bottle of JDS and we have to go to 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.480 the bottle shop. And I remember that night, right, and 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.160 that's when my mind paused within that, within that dark 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:53.360 time that's on just trying to show that that's the 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:58.640 level of danger that I was doing to myself and 0:16:58.760 --> 0:16:59.520 I didn't care. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.440 It also shows the tolerance that you built up that 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.760 you could handle that much our Cohlon drugs. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:11.119 Oh yeah, I'm not proud of it, because in reality 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.479 now is although I have given up all of those things, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.919 the damage does not, you know, go away, just because 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.480 you've stopped drinking and taking cocaine and all of that, 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.800 like four to five years ago. The damage from twenty 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.160 years five years is coming right now. Yeah, so I'm 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.760 off everything. I don't do that anymore, but I do 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.920 recognize that the damage of all of that is hitting 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.399 me now. 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.000 Up next, Kai tells me about the day he first 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:47.800 met Elena. Let's go to the year two thousand, when 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.160 you met Elena? Who were you then? Was this all happening? Then? 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.240 At that time, I was still on my way down. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:03.160 And by the time I'm met Elena, you know, we 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:10.359 were just hanging out and friends. And then yeah, that's 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:16.600 what happened, and we were together. But you know, I 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:21.000 do know that when we were staying together, I was 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.920 still at that point where I was at the nightclubs, 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:30.679 working and taking ten to fifteen twenty pills and coming 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.000 home and trying to act straight, right, you know what 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:34.320 I mean? 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.879 Yeah, So what do you remember of that relationship. Do 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.560 you remember it being a good, healthy relationship? 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:50.200 Well, it was a okay relationship given what I've just said, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.960 you know, because I was still living a lie myself 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:58.200 and I was hiding the fact that I was taking 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.560 a lot of drugs and hanging around with a lot 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.520 of people. The relationship, from what I can remember, because 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.399 it was a long time, was you know, it was 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:13.600 a normal loving relationship, a young people trying to find 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:19.000 their way, and unfortunately, you know, the weight of everything 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:24.280 it had to you know, it had to blow up 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.640 in a sense. And that's where it all fell apart, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.720 was because you know, a lot of the drug taking 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:40.320 and that I had never at that point in a 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:46.760 relationship really given how bad it was, threatened her in 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.520 a way, I was just normal. She was living with 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.480 me and one of my friends, and she moved in 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.879 and yeah, and so it kind of like at that 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:04.000 same time the demise was coming really big and fast 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.959 for me because of the alcohol and drug taking. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.200 When she broke up with you, she told us that 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.520 you kept coming around a lot, and she kind of 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.639 witnessed or watched you decline, as you say, she was 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.359 watching you getting more and more distressed and upset. Do 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.320 you remember that? Is that how you remember that time? 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.360 I kind of like blocked a lot of it out. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.480 And there was only when I was just talking to Elena, 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.200 you know about the podcast that listening to her, I 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.919 was just going, oh, oh my god, please, no, wonder 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.160 I blocked this out. You know, I'm such an idiot, 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:50.320 and so, yeah, I really in honesty blocked it out 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:55.160 of my head because you know, it was a reminder 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:01.720 of that time and how she but I was. And 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:07.280 that's a sad thing too, because you know, in hindsight, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.720 looking back at it, you know, Elena went off into 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.199 her world, but she was obviously not well from that, 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:19.440 and I was at that time that it happened, I 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.320 was trying to save myself and I couldn't even have 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.720 the courage to even think about Elena, to be honest, 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.639 I was trying to think, how I'm going Am I 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:35.879 going to stay alive? And that sounds probably selfish at 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.040 this scene, but it was that was the reality. And 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:40.480 so yeah, well. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.480 Let's talk about the night. What do you remember about 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.840 the night you were arrested? About the night everything happened. 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.480 I was on drugs again, and I was drinking, which 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.440 was even worse. I was drinking and drugs and alcohol 0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:01.840 was very bad. And yes, so all I remember was 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:08.560 being at the house and something happened and I got upset. 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:13.239 You know, I was feeling, you know, so down, and 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:19.119 that I think at that time, I kind of like 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.280 lost complete control of myself and I felt like just 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.720 dying right there or then, or having any excuse to 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:30.600 be to feel that way. So it was almost like 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:37.080 I was I was almost showing myself, tempting myself to 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:42.440 These are opportunities to either kill yourself or do something bad, 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.440 so you can get shot by the coppers and it's 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:48.600 a fast way out of here. That's how bad, you know. 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.439 So when you grab the knife, were you thinking of 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:54.560 yourself not hurting her? 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:59.239 That's right in my mind. I wasn't, really, you know, 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.080 That's what I'm saying. That's all I know. I don't remember, 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.760 but I do know that I hated myself and that 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.959 I would rather kill myself, you know. So I'm not 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:14.720 sure on that night because I maybe had like five 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.880 to seven pills and drank cases of beers and bottles 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:24.080 of Jack Daniels was my weekly start the night off. 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.440 Do you even do you have any memory of her 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:29.960 that night? Because she was terrified? Can you picture her 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:33.639 face or her reactions? 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:38.360 I I can picture her face and her reactions, and 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:43.480 you know, it's disappointing, you know, it's even to this day, 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.720 it is still disappointing. Although my life has changed, although 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:52.359 I have done this, it is disappointing that I did that, 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:57.720 you know, with Elena. You know, of course she would 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:04.480 have been scared, you know, and that I would be enraged, 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.760 you know, from everything of the past, or just put 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:12.920 into one, you know, and it's like it's just come 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:13.520 out of me. 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:19.480 You know that night Elena was powerless. You were a 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:25.520 much bigger person than her. She was terrified. What is 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:30.040 that like for you to think about a woman Elena 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:34.760 being in that position where she feels so unsafe and 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:36.960 she can't kind of get away. 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:41.160 Now that you said that, it's like, I'm walking in 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:45.719 back in that moment now, and I realized now that 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:50.320 I locked the doors and trapped her in. I think 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:55.560 I said something along the lines I want to kill myself, 0:24:56.080 --> 0:25:01.000 or I may, like I said, have threatened her. I 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:08.800 think her ability to disarm me was a major turning 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.399 point of the moment. She was able to do that 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:18.639 because she was trained in martial arts that and it 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:23.800 happened so quick, So in that particular situation, she was 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:33.560 al though vulnerable, also strong mentally enough to do that, 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:37.120 to engage in that. You know what, because I remember 0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:42.720 there's a tussle to get the knife. I obviously didn't 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:48.399 win that tussle. She disarmed me so she was brave 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:54.760 enough to use her combat skills to disarm me from 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:56.080 hurting anybody. 0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.600 But there are so many women who don't win that tussle. 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:03.920 Men are usually physically stronger than women, and we see 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:07.240 time and time again that women are dying. Yeah, is 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.919 that a sobering fact for you to understand and realize 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:12.320 that could have happened exactly. 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:19.679 That's why I'm so ashamed. You know, I was probably 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:24.440 in denial about that happening to me, that that could 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:26.520 have happened to me, but you know what it did, 0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:32.080 and so on that night, I never dreamed that that 0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:35.800 would happen to me. It happened. The reality is that 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.560 she was able to disarm me. And if she didn't 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:43.960 disarm me, I probably one thing is I wouldn't be here. 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.720 I don't you know, she may have not been here. 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:51.320 The fact is that she was able to do that, 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.920 you know, saved both of us. 0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:00.280 Do you remember being able to feel remorse for her 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:02.120 in that moment or is that something that's come later. 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:07.359 Yeah, that was not around because I was like gone, okay, 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.439 but I do remember something happened and I kind of 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:14.560 like come like dazed off or passed up. And then 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:17.119 I looked up and I could see some blue and 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:20.520 red lights bouncing off the wall, and I went, oh 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.879 my god, what the hell? And so I realized, oh 0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:29.679 my god, what's happened here? And then I ran to 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.000 the other side of the room, and I could see 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:34.080 red and blue lights because we were on the third 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:37.320 floor in a place in Bondai. And I looked down 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:42.000 and I saw so many police cars, and then I 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:46.280 started to add up one and one and then you know, 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:49.760 and then I looked down and I could see all 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:51.920 the police and then I saw a Lana down there, 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:55.040 and I said, oh my god, something's happened. And then 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:58.720 I realized, you know, because of the alcohol, and that 0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:03.800 that's something bad, is how thing, And so I had 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:09.840 to talk to them from outside the window to ask them, 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:15.160 you know, please, you know, please put your guns away. 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.199 I'm happy for you guys to come up, but you know, 0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.080 the guy that got killed down the road, That's all 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:24.199 I was thinking, because I was so scared. You know. 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:28.480 After that, it was a traumatic night for Elena and 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:34.080 for both of us, and I am so thankful that 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:39.400 nothing serious happened on that night, but I can understand 0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:45.920