WEBVTT - Dee Salmin Went ‘Boy Sober’ For Three Years. This Is What She Learnt 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:01.800 You know, I was putting up with behaviors that some 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:03.760 people might be like, I would never put up with that, 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:09.440 Like what like you know, I talk about how a 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.399 lot of the times, like just even in sex or 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.280 just like the relationships that I was like chasing, the 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.160 guys would just not treat me very nicely and like yeah, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.680 you know, not really respectful and kind of you know, 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.319 lead me on and ghost me, and then I would 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.759 just come crawling back, or I'd like whatever they wanted 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.840 to do, I would just you know, pander to them. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.080 This week on No Filter, you might think you already 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.599 know my guest. She's the voice behind the hook Up 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.880 on Triple J, where she's spent years talking about love, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.400 sex and modern relationships. She's built a reputation for being honest, 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.640 direct and very clear about one thing women should not 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.240 be settling. But there's also another version of her that 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.960 exists out in the world, one shaped by headlines common 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.840 and a level of scrutiny that comes with dating. One 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.520 of the most visible mean in Australian sport. D Salmon 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.760 is in a relationship with Collingwood Captain Darcy Moore, and 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.279 over the past few years their relationship has been picked 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.080 apart in a very public way, from how they live 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.640 to how they love to what she believes. It's all 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.319 been up for debate, and D hasn't exactly stayed quiet. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.200 She's pushed back, she's leant in and at times completely 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:39.679 reclaimed the narrative. So today this is a conversation about 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.119 D her life, her relationships, the moments that shaped her, 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.600 and what she's learned from years of talking to other 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.200 people about theirs. Because when you strip everything else away, 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:56.000 what D is really interested in is this, how do 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.960 you build a life and a relationship that actually feels 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.160 right for you? This is D Salmon. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.960 D Salmon, welcome to No Filter. Thank you. I am 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:10.160 so honored to be here. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.560 Well, I'm thrilled to have you, but I'm also a 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:14.359 little bit apprehensive because I have. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.120 Been reading your book. Yes, well I've read it. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:22.000 Yeah, It's not love Actually Great Name, Great Name, which 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.680 is described as. 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.320 Part memoir, part manifesto. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:33.919 Fascinating read and very much in your space of relationships 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.640 and the psychology of relationships, but also you really open 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.799 yourself up in it about your own relationship and how 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.959 you came to that. But then I read a bit 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.320 that made me go, oh, does she know she's coming 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.480 on no filter? Because I read these right. Honestly, I'd 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.320 let you put me in the chokey with Matilda before 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.840 you catch me having a vulnerable conversation. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.840 Do you know what I was saying? Time in this morning, 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:01.919 I was like, how are you feeling? 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.480 Because I've done a few interviews, I was like, I'm 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.640 so nervous for this one because i just think you 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.440 are such a great interviewer and I think it is 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.600 such a skill set that you have to be able 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.600 to really open people up and get deep. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.160 And I'm excited for that. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.040 But at the same time, I'm nervous because I'm like, 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:21.680 like I said, I. 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:22.640 Really struggled with. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:25.320 It. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.840 Even though I read every single Brene Brown book on vulnerability, 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.840 I still find having honest, difficult conversations really hard to do. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:40.080 They make my skin crawl. Really why why? 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.000 I think it's just what I've learned. I think it's 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.880 just like my nervous system goes into fight or flight 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.320 and I freeze. Quite I find them quite like. It's 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:57.920 not even logic. It's like it's something deeper, primal thing. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.960 It's a primal thing I can't survive. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:02.000 I don't know. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.080 I think it's like my heart races, I freeze, I 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.880 find I like almost got to cry. Like sometimes if 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.720 I know that I have to have a difficult conversation with, 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.119 whether it's a friend or a partner, like can automatically 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:15.240 just start crying because. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.160 I don't know what it is. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:21.599 I think it's just what I've maybe learned about difficult conversations, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:26.799 or like the vulnerability of them, or maybe not having 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:28.080 them received well. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.279 I don't know. You know that, you know? 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:35.080 They say, for instance, with allergies, that often people are 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.000 attracted to what they're allergic to, so that if you're 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.320 you know, you shouldn't have sugar, you'll have a huge 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.719 sweet tooth or whatever. You're allergic to cats if you 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.000 just want yes, like my husband who's allergic to cats 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.040 and loves cats right but can't have Yeah. Yeah, you 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:59.360 have immersed yourself in a space where vulnerability and openness 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.640 and a prepare irridness to go into those dart and 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.960 secret corners is essential. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.200 I know, because I'm so I've always been so drawn 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.680 to psychology. I've always been so drawn to relationships and 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.479 love and the way that people find each other and 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.520 the way that it is so nuanced and complicated, and 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.120 I find that so incredibly interesting. But I've always been 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.400 on the other side of that, right, Like I am 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.440 a trained journalist. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.640 I love asking people about it. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.680 I love having those vulnerable conversations with other people. But 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.000 this is the first time that I've actually really written 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.240 quite vulnerably, and I've I've talked about stuff that I've 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.720 never spoken about before. And usually on the hook up 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.000 it's yeah, I'm on the other side and I'm chatting 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.840 to people about their stories, and I love it. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:51.279 I love it. 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.920 I'm like you, I love having, you know, really deep 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.200 and vulnerable conversations. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:01.080 But when yeah, you know what I mean, Well, when 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:06.120 you decided to do the book, what was the genesis 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:06.479 of that? 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.200 Then I feel. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.920 Like I'm coming to a place where I've been at 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.120 the hook Cup now for nearly seven years. I've been 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.440 at the ABC for nearly ten. I just feel like 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.960 I'm coming to a bit of a graduation moment, Like 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.600 i feel like I've gone through a lot in my twenties. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.080 I've really learned a lot. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.720 I've interviewed so many people, I've interviewed so many experts, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.680 and last year, the idea kind of came to me. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:37.120 It's something that I always knew I wanted to do, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.000 but maybe didn't have the confidence to be like, oh, 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.240 who are you to, you know, write a bit of 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.720 a dating guide and who are you to you know, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:49.320 try and encourage women with their sex and relationships. But 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.600 I think last year I really felt like I had 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.920 learned enough. I felt like I had It wasn't as 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.279 much imposter syndrome anymore. I felt like I really believed 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.440 that I had something of value to add and hopefully 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:05.239 share with the world. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.880 Because you have immersed yourself, I mean if you do. 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.600 You know, they say, if you do the thing that 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.240 you love for five minutes a day, in five years, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:14.840 you'll be actually, I think it's an hour. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.440 I've mentally just gone off five. That's my duo lingo. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.480 That within five years you'll be at the top of 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.120 your field. Yeah, because you have immersed yourself in that world. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:29.240 You know a lot. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.320 I think when you yeah, when you realize like I've 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.080 spent nearly seven years, every single day, every single week, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.240 talking to young people from all over Australia and the 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.680 world as well, and you know, psychologists and sex educators, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:47.960 and we've covered every single topic under the song that 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.560 you could possibly imagine. And that's been such a privilege 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.920 about The Hookup is that there is nothing that we 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.120 can't talk about, and I think it is one of 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.280 the only podcasts in mainstream Australian media where we can 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.880 have those real, vulnerable and difficult conversations and talk about 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.960 taboo topics. And yeah, I feel I do feel quite 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:13.560 sure that if anything, I have enough. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.280 I have learned enough to be able to share that 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:16.840 with the world. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:17.360 But to. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:25.200 Write about dating and relationship relationships, you know, in the 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.000 third person, is very different than what you've done in 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.400 the book, which is you brought yourself to it and 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.439 some of it. I was like, just knowing you through 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:43.199 the hook Up and through the media, through your relationship 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:48.880 with Darcy Moore, who's a footballer, and not just any footballer. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.440 I hasten to add I'm going to controlled for that, 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.480 but I was like, oh my god, she's writing about 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:01.360 her UTIs like, that's full of well. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:02.679 I wanted to walk the walk. 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.120 I think I've been so privileged to hear from so 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.199 many people about their darkest, most deepest secrets and the 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.400 most vulnerable moments, and I think I feel secure enough 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.880 in myself to know that being able to share those 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.720 those vulnerable parts of my life and those things that 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.800 maybe there are a bit of shame around or there are, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.480 you know, things that are quite personal that hopefully, knowing 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.600 what I've learned from so many people, they might learn 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.760 the same. And I've just I have always felt really 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:39.360 strongly about having these conversations and talking about taboo things 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.559 and things that aren't really spoken about, and especially when 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.959 it comes to things that women experience. I think that 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.800 you know, like for the UTIs, for example, there's still 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.680 so much medical misogyny around that and this idea that 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.720 you know, you just have some cranberry juice and we 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.240 don't know enough and we're not taught enough, and it's 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.280 not spoken about enough. And it was a really traumatic 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.120 experience for me having chronic UTIs, and I had no 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.360 one that I had seen speak out about that in 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.320 the media when I was going through it, And I 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.280 just think that if I had heard someone speak about it, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.280 or if I had known more, it wouldn't have gotten 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:20.600 to a chronic place. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:26.120 Well, it's also one thing with before instance a UTI, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.920 when you're single and you're dating and you can just 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.079 pull yourself out of the situation for a while. I 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:38.439 drink your crand fridges and pray, right. But it's another 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.480 when you're in a relationship and you're navigating the sexual 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.360 aspect and intimacy aspect of things, then you have to 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.200 draw someone else into the conversation and into your world 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.240 that you said is often filled with sort of shame 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.840 and secrecy. But when you were going to write about 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.199 things publicly, when you made the decision to step into 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.040 showing yourself, did you who did you have to have 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:11.960 conversations with to say, listen, this book, this book that 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.000 I was writing about other people is now going to 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.080 be about me and us. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:22.040 I yeah, I had. I was really really lucky that 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:28.439 Darcy was so supportive and he was with me every 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:29.920 step of the way of writing this book. He's an 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.520 incredible writer and editor himself, so he was like, you know, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.040 helping me through the editing process, and he read it 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.240 about ten times and there were parts that we cut out, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.560 and there were parts that he was really generous with 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.040 letting me share. And that goes to my parents as 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:47.480 well well your. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.960 Parents in the world, because you talk about and I 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:56.640 mean everyone's life is very formatively shaped by what they've 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:02.480 seen modeled in their family or their guardianship, whatever. How 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.559 did you had to pick apart which I gathered already 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:11.760 done in therapy. Yeah, yeah, analyzed the machinations and the 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.280 way that your family, your parents related to each other. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.840 How did the conversation. 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.800 With them go when you said I'm going to talk 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:27.040 about what I learned, not all of it positive. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.400 Well, like even saying I'm really bad at having vulnerable. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.880 So that was the thing that I was the most 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.839 nervous about. And I think because they're still in wa. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:38.559 still in wa. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.960 And I think it was because I knew, you know, 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.920 when you love people so much, the last thing you want. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:45.920 To do is hurt them. 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.439 And I knew that there was potential that it would 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.960 with what I shared about my parents and my upbringing 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.000 and their relationship and the effect it had on me, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.599 And so I left it to the very last minute. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.720 I had my editors being like, oh, you mean it 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:01.400 was written? 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.600 It was all written. The process of writing was a 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:11.040 very like closed off just me, Like it was like me, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:12.480 Darcy would read it. 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.280 I had one other friend that read it. That was it. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.720 No one knew I was writing, No one knew I 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:17.360 wrote the book. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.120 It was like a very I just wanted to write 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.880 with no expectation of feelings that. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:25.400 I would hurt. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.880 And you know, because I am quite a people pleaser 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.280 and I do care so much about people's feelings, and 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.640 so I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.360 impacted or that wasn't influencing the things that. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.560 I wanted to really write about. And so I just 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.520 wanted to write it all out and then I would. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.680 Deal with the conversations of the people that I've spoken 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.520 about and the repercussions of that. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.559 And so as I. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.720 Had finished my draft and manuscripts made it as were like, okay, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.320 you know you need to you need to get every 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.520 client across the stories that you're sharing and make. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.280 Sure to contextualize it. It was not. 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.120 The story that you tell about your family was not shocking, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.040 but it was intimate, and it was about that your 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:16.440 father would often withhold affection if someone had done something 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.920 that merited his disapproval. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.720 To your mom, and your mum was like the peacekeeper. 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.360 Your mom was the homemaker, yeah, your dad was the provider. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.760 Yes. So it was very traad in that sense exactly. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.360 And the story I share is to give context for 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.440 the reader around, because a lot of the book is 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.200 about dating and why we might date people that aren't 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:42.920 great for us, and why do we end up in 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.960 these dynamics. And you might be listening and you're like, oh, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.520 I constantly, you know, chase guys or whoever you're dating 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.720 that you know don't seem to want to commit or 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.800 kind of hold me at arm's length through a bit 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.920 of void and or whatever. And I seem to have 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.360 found myself in this cycle of you know, desperately longing 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.760 for a partner, but then always kind of chasing the 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.520 people that didn't really want to be with me. 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.600 And so to kind of provide a bit of context 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.960 around like why I was stuck in this cycle and 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:11.640 why you know, I was putting. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.200 Up with behaviors that some people might be like I 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.520 would never put up with that, Like what Like you know, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.360 I talk about how a lot of the times, like 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.280 just even in sex or just like the relationships that 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.920 I was like chasing, the guys would just not treat 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.240 me very nicely and like, you know, not really respectful 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.400 and kind of you know, lead me on and ghost me. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.280 And then I would just come crawling back, or I'd 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.120 like whatever they wanted to do, I would just you know, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.480 pander to them. Or the Jimmy Hendrix guy, yeah, the 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.720 guy who just plays albums for two hours and. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.440 Repeating like you were just like waiting there like sure, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.880 this is great, I love this, like you know, never 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.880 never really speaking up for myself and never really being 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.280 like I don't what are you doing, Like I don't 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:55.720 want to do this. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.560 It was always just trying to make sure that like 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.640 I was getting any sort of attention or affection from them, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.760 even if it was you know, disrespect or they weren't 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.920 treating me very well. And so to give a bit 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.600 of context, I guess to the reader around why that was, 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.400 I had to talk about the fact that we learned 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.160 from our earliest caregivers about love and relationships. And I 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.240 had learned from my parents that you know, love was 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.960 withheld and it was hot and conditional, and that was 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.040 what I had seen growing up, and so that was 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.760 when I first started dating, like what I was chasing 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:31.920 and what it's all I knew. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.720 Speaking of your dad when you told him, how he 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.240 was contextualized in the book in terms of how it 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.160 affected you, How was he about that. 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.800 He was really supportive my mom, Both my mum and 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.520 him were really supportive. They like, we'd gone to family 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.400 therapy nout of this was new. I think it definitely 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.080 would have hit them a bit like it would have. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.000 You know, it's not something that you want to hear. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.280 And I think that they have always kind of felt 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.560 that way of you know, this was never ever. I 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.000 don't think it's any parent's intention to ever cause you know, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:14.520 upset to their child. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:15.560 And so I. 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.800 Think they were not hurt that I had written it, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:23.399 but hurt about that that happened. But we've done so 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.000 much healing as a family, and I just, yeah, I 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:31.320 will be forever so grateful that they've been so generous 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.959 with allowing me to share some pretty vulnerable things. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.679 Did your dad recognize the truth of himself? 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And we've had conversations about that and 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:48.879 in therapy and you know, over the years, and I 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.800 love my parents, and I talk about intergenerational trauma, and 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.680 I know, having gone to therapy, like how much of 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.040 some of the things that he. 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.119 Experienced and hear his child hood Russia. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.639 Russia really impacted the way that he showed up in 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.960 relationships and you know, my parents were both so they 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.359 were in their like mom was twenty seven when they 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.080 had when she was pregnant with me, and they. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.240 Like culturally like barely really knew each other. They didn't 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.880 speak the same language. And they they got engaged really quickly. Yeah, 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.879 they'd spent ten days together, all they didn't speak the 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:26.640 same language. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.320 They like moved to Australia, foreign country for my dad, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.479 and they mom accidentally felt pregnant with me, so they 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.240 both had to give up their careers in ballet. 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:43.119 And you know, your mom's Australian, so culturally a massive, massive. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.240 Challenge for her as well. 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:49.400 Yeah, and so they had three under four and yeah, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.440 we you know, didn't have any money and they lived 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.000 off we lived off Center Link, and so it was 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.560 we had a really kind of difficult child in this 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.199 sense that like it was a very loving childhood, but 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.399 difficult in the sense it was so much happening and 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.480 there was so much pressure and there's so much stress. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.920 And I, yeah, understand so much. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.920 Now as an adult and having had done this work, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.120 like they were definitely PERIODSI. I was angry at my parents, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.680 but having done all this work and gone to therapy 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:16.800 as a family. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:24.280 And realizing and trying to reinvent themselves. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.560 Exactly exactly, and they were doing their best, and so 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.520 much of it is loon't behavior from their families. And 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:29.920 you know, my dad was six when he was taken 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.399 away from his family and put it to a ballet school. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:38.800 Wow, was it hard for your mum because she was 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:45.520 the conduit really who also struggled with his periods of exclusion. 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:47.840 Yeah, I think so. 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.399 But this, yeah, like I said, this is conversations that 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.879 we've had for a while now. And my parents are 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.800 such incredible role models, like they see psychologists, you know, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:01.560 like it's it's seeing them work so hard to heal 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.600 themselves and to change patterns and show up in a 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.639 different capacity For me, and like, you know, there's been 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.719 so much healing that we've done, and that in itself, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.119 seeing them, even in their sixties be able to go like, 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.760 we've still got work to do and we're still you know, working. 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.480 Really hard to show up. And I think that to 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:23.360 me has been. 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.480 Really inspiring, knowing that like, at no matter age, we've 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.440 always we've always got work to do on ourselves and 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:31.840 our relationships in the way. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.080 After this shortbreak, d Salman reveals the startling truth she 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:43.560 learned about herself in therapy. So when you had started 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:49.520 unpicking that in therapy, did you share that with your parents? 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:55.200 Then I went to therapy in covit It was this 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.600 opportunity that I had where I was kind of go, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.520 go go and never really worked on myself and never 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.640 really thought that deeply about my patterns. And then in COVID, 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.800 like so many people, I had all this time to myself, 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.280 a lot of thinking time. I was in lockdown by 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:11.680 myself in an apartment and I. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.400 Just had you just moved from WS. I just moved time. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.199 I drove across a Nullabo with my mum and at 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.719 the end of twenty nineteen, and then we went into 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:23.600 lockdown in twenty twenty and I hadn't even found a 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.560 rental yet, so I yeah, stayed at my friend's apartment 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:29.320 and then he moved to Sydney because he was like, 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.320 fuck this, I'm not dealing with this. And so I 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.639 lived in that apartment by myself for most of that 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.520 year and just yeah, had so much time to think 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.240 and so much time to read, and so much time 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.840 to journal and learn about myself. 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.080 And I did your wheel start to come off a 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:48.240 bit at that time. 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.680 It was more that I finally just had the space 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.359 right like I had, like I talked about in the book, 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.040 like I had spent my whole life and to that point, 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.960 like from my teen years just like always messing a guy, 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.720 like always chasing affection, whether it was like I was 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.439