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Speaker 1: So much.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the spill your daily pop

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Speaker 3: culture fix.

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Speaker 1: I'm mmrmam and I'm Laura Brodnick and we have a

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Speaker 1: very special Friday episode for you spillers. So last month,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy released a little series on Netflix that you

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Speaker 1: might have heard of called Monsters the Lyle and Eric

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Speaker 1: Menendez Story, which told the true story of brothers Lyle

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Speaker 1: and Eric Menendez, who fatally shot their parents in their

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills home in nineteen eighty nine, and during the

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Speaker 1: very extensive trial, a lot of information came out about

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Speaker 1: their parents abusing them. Really captured international headlines at the time.

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Speaker 1: That story has really come back into public view, and

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Speaker 1: then recently the Menendez Brothers documentary also came out on Netflix.

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Speaker 3: Netflix just competing with each other exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, there was so much backlash that that Ryan Murphy

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Speaker 1: series had sensationalized the story and made up different facts,

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Speaker 1: even though it was billed as a drama. So they

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Speaker 1: had this documentary which then interviewed both of the brothers

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Speaker 1: in prison also had new interviews with a family member

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Speaker 1: and their prosecutor, and once again, people are really delving

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Speaker 1: into the whole true crime aspect of this show. So

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Speaker 1: in honor of this story that has captured everyone's imaginations

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Speaker 1: once again, today's episode of the Spill is dedicated to

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Speaker 1: the very best true crime documentaries. And if you haven't

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Speaker 1: heard of and as everyone listening knows, I'm not really

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Speaker 1: a true crime girl, so don't worry, I am stepping aside,

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Speaker 1: and instead we have brought in the master of this genre,

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Speaker 1: someone who was across all the ins and outs. It's

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Speaker 1: Jem Bath, host of True Crime Conversations.

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Speaker 2: Hello, what an intro. But yes, I am true crime obsessed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so you have the very best recommendations because it

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Speaker 1: is your job to watch pretty much every true crime

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Speaker 1: documentary it is.

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Speaker 2: And I have watched both Monsters and the actual documentary

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Speaker 2: and everything else in between.

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Speaker 1: Did you have a favorite between them? Which one captured

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Speaker 1: your imagination?

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Speaker 2: So I watched Monsters first and felt a bit icky

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Speaker 2: the whole time I was watching it, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: properly know the story. So because it happened in the eighties,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm a nineties baby. I wasn't across it

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Speaker 2: you were alive?

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Speaker 1: No exactly, but just.

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Speaker 2: Keep it going anyway. So I watched Monsters Fresh, not

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Speaker 2: really knowing the story, and I felt a bit icky

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Speaker 2: about it, and I was like, why do I feel

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Speaker 2: like this? And so I jumped immediately into the documentary

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Speaker 2: and then I went, oh, Okay, now I get it.

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Speaker 2: So look, Monsters has a great cast, it's really well shot.

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Speaker 2: It's a great watch. But I think it's a very

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Speaker 2: quite mean telling of that story.

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Speaker 3: It's also very sexy.

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Speaker 2: It's sexy, and there's a lot of like innuendo of

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Speaker 2: the brothers being incestuous, which I've literally just gotten out

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Speaker 2: of an interview with one of the journalists who's been

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Speaker 2: covering this story from the very start. He said that

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Speaker 2: is categorically not true. Yes, So it's one of those

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Speaker 2: cases of where you get a real story and then

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Speaker 2: you kind of like boost it and sensationalize it and

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Speaker 2: almost cartoon advise it. And these are two men that

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Speaker 2: are still in prison, who are trying to get out

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Speaker 2: of prison. I don't love that. I don't love that vibe.

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Speaker 2: Whereas the documentary, I thought was, you know, it's so much.

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Speaker 2: It's not bias. It's a really kind of authentic retelling

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Speaker 2: of that story. So if you're gonna watch it, I

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Speaker 2: mean I recommend watching both because you kind of get

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Speaker 2: two sides of a coin and you can see how

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Speaker 2: the media can manipulate, you know, the way you think

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Speaker 2: about things. But documentary is definitely the most authentic retelling.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And that is why you're here today and while

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Speaker 1: we're doing this episode, because we have the best true

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Speaker 1: crime documentaries. If you've watched The Menandez Brothers and you're

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Speaker 1: looking for more options, Okay, So Emily and jam will

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Speaker 1: both be bringing their recommendations today. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: kick us off, Jim?

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Speaker 2: Yes, My first recommendation is a four part documentary called

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Speaker 2: con Girl, and you can watch this free on seven Plus.

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Speaker 2: Don't you love a free one? I know? So. Con

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Speaker 2: Girl follows the lives of Samantha as a Party. She

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Speaker 2: is a serial Australian con woman who has duped hundreds

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Speaker 2: of people all over the world. She has seventy four

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Speaker 2: that we know of different aliases. Seventy four. I think

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Speaker 2: there's more. Having watched the documentary, I'm like, there's no

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Speaker 2: way it's only seventy.

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Speaker 1: Four, so much ad men to keep track of.

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Speaker 2: To give her credit, she's very smart to be out

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Speaker 2: like it because she runs a lot of these aliases

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Speaker 2: simultaneously and interjects and kind of mixes the cons in together.

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Speaker 2: It's actually quite a talent, and she wasn't doing things

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Speaker 2: that were very criminal and ruining people's lives. To give

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Speaker 2: you an example, She's got Emily the Russian gymnast, who

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Speaker 2: is like a you know, a teenage girl. She was

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Speaker 2: in her twenties at the time. She's got Harper, the

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Speaker 2: seventeen year old O pair, so she's like looking after

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Speaker 2: actual children pretending to be a teenager. Anika the Swedish

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Speaker 2: backpacker who's on the run because her parents are international spies,

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Speaker 2: and she like lures just normal everyday Australians a lot

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Speaker 2: of the time backpackers because they don't see the Australian headlines.

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Speaker 2: They don't really know her name at all, and she

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Speaker 2: just ruins these people's lives, emotionally ruins them.

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Speaker 1: So do you mean meeting them like in person or

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Speaker 1: it is all done online.

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Speaker 3: So she puts on the accent and everything.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if she put an accent on for

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Speaker 2: the Swedish backpacker, but she literally meets these people in

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Speaker 2: real life, like I know that she met Emmy, who

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Speaker 2: she duped with Anaker, the Swedish backpacker, you know, at

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Speaker 2: a hostel in Sydney, and then took her on these

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Speaker 2: crazy few months where she made Emmy go on the

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Speaker 2: run with her. She made them stay in a safe

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Speaker 2: house which was which was a shipping container in her

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Speaker 2: dad's backyard, which Emmy had no idea about. She thought

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Speaker 2: she was literally on the run in some police safe house.

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Speaker 2: Then she convinced her to go to Canada with her,

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Speaker 2: and eventually what kind of tripped her up in that

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Speaker 2: roost was they were at a hostel in Canada and

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Speaker 2: two Swedish backpackers saw that she'd written she was Sweden,

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Speaker 2: so came and spoke to her in Swedish why and

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Speaker 2: she couldn't say she couldn't speak it back, So that's what.

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Speaker 2: So eventually her jups are undone, but often it's years later.

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Speaker 2: There's one jupe where she was in Sydney and she

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Speaker 2: pretended to be a teenage abuse victim and she went

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Speaker 2: to a home for vulnerable children and they taught her

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Speaker 2: for an entire year how to speak. They taught her

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Speaker 2: for an entire year how to read and write, thinking

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Speaker 2: that she was a fourteen year old abuse victim, and

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Speaker 2: she wasn't. So what was she.

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Speaker 3: Getting out of this?

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Speaker 2: This is the wild part of it. She doesn't get

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Speaker 2: anything from it. She doesn't financially gain, so she's not

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Speaker 2: duping yet. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought even say she was grifting because I've

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Speaker 1: obviously heard her name, and I've read some of the headlines,

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Speaker 1: but I had never delved into what you're saying this

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Speaker 1: documentary has, which is all these crazy stories. But I

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Speaker 1: always assumed there was some sort of monetary gain, that

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Speaker 1: she was grifting these people out of money or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she gains monetarily a little bit, so she'll

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Speaker 2: still an iPad here or there, and she gets accommodation

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Speaker 2: and food and bits like that, but that doesn't appear

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Speaker 2: to be her end goal. I don't really know what

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Speaker 2: her goal to deceiving people exactly. Yeah. One of the

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Speaker 2: psychiatrists in this docu series says that from what they

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Speaker 2: can gather, she is addicted to the deception. So she's

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Speaker 2: just addicted to lying. And they did kind of look

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Speaker 2: at a few possible diagnoses, so things like multiple personality disorder.

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Speaker 2: Munshousens because she does kind of pretend to be sick

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Speaker 2: a lot, and she does as she gets older and

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Speaker 2: can't kind of act as a teenager anymore. Involve children

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Speaker 2: who then she makes them act like they're sick. The

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Speaker 2: reason I'm recommending it is because I've watched a lot

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Speaker 2: of true crime, and this is one of the wildest

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Speaker 2: stories I have ever seen, like ever seen on screen,

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Speaker 2: because usually when someone who is committing crimes like this,

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Speaker 2: it's for a reason for like gain, they're trying to

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Speaker 2: gain money or fame or but she just I think

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Speaker 2: she's a very sick woman, Like she's she's got a

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Speaker 2: lot going on, but she's ruining people's lives across the world.

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Speaker 2: The reason that we all don't know her name and

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Speaker 2: her face is because she is very good at avoiding

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Speaker 2: photos and videos, so there's not a lot out there,

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Speaker 2: so she's not plastered everywhere like you would think. After

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Speaker 2: fifteen years of doing this, you know, she.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like who does she sound like Emily in that

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Speaker 3: movie A Simple Favor?

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Speaker 1: Oh Blake Lively's character. I mean that was only one

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Speaker 1: main grift, but it does sound like. This is like

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Speaker 1: a like if Ryan Murphy hears about this, She's going

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Speaker 1: to be making a sexy, a sexy series all about this,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to come Kim Kardashi and you just

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Speaker 1: know it.

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Speaker 2: I think if this series was on Netflix it would

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Speaker 2: go off absolutely because it's so gripping. The way it's

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Speaker 2: told is brilliant. The documentary makers have done an incredible job.

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Speaker 2: It took them two years to kind of piece together

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Speaker 2: this story. I've written about Samantha over the years. I've

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Speaker 2: kind of dipped in and out of her story, but

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Speaker 2: because it's so complicated, I didn't like fully invest in it.

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Speaker 2: And so watching this four part documentary, you properly get

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Speaker 2: to kind of of unravel the extent of the crimes,

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Speaker 2: and I feel so much more invested in it because

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Speaker 2: I can finally understand it as much as you can

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Speaker 2: understand someone with seventy four alists. I think everyone needs

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Speaker 2: to watch this. Every Australian needs to watch this one

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Speaker 2: so that you don't get duped by Samantha as a party. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because she's not stopping Wait.

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Speaker 3: She's still out there.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's in the office right now.

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Speaker 2: She's been to prison multiple times.

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Speaker 3: Do we know what she looks like? Would you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we know what she looks like.

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Speaker 1: Without a photo, because if anyone's got to four for

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Speaker 1: a crypt.

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Speaker 2: She's currently in prison, but she's eligible for parole, and

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Speaker 2: she's been in prison multiple times, sometimes for like a year,

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Speaker 2: two years at a time, and when she gets out,

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Speaker 2: she does exactly the same thing. She refuses psychiatric help,

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Speaker 2: she does her prison time, she comes back out, she

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Speaker 2: does it again. And she's thirty six. Now she's been

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Speaker 2: doing it. She's so young, she's been doing it since

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Speaker 2: she was probably early twenties, teenager. So I don't think

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Speaker 2: she's stopping. The only way we stop her is by

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Speaker 2: getting her face out there so that people aren't duped.

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Speaker 2: It's just a fascinating story. I mean, I still don't

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Speaker 2: understand it after watching it, but I just think everyone

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Speaker 2: needs to watch it. It's so well done.

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Speaker 1: Oh amazing on seven plus right.

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Speaker 2: And seven plus free.

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Speaker 1: How Emily are you gonna top that? No, we look

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Speaker 1: on your face, you look so shaken to your right.

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Speaker 3: I want to leave the studio and watch it right now.

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Speaker 1: If you hear a door slams because M's left the studio, Okay,

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Speaker 1: but what is your true crime documentary recommendation?

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Speaker 3: The first one I want to recommend is one that's

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Speaker 3: probably the most recent out of all of our recommendations.

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Speaker 3: It's called Sweet Bobby, and it's on Netflix. I think

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Speaker 3: you guys might have heard of it because it was

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Speaker 3: originally a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Podcast went viral.

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Speaker 3: It was everywhere, and it was quite a few years

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Speaker 3: ago though. Yeah, it was like the best podcast ever.

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Speaker 3: It is one of the biggest catfishing cases ever. So

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Speaker 3: it's about this woman named Krat who was catfished for

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Speaker 3: eighty years by a man who she thought was a man.

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Speaker 2: And this wasn't online one, Okay, this wasn't online.

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Speaker 1: That's that's slightly more understandable.

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Speaker 3: It is so intense because I feel like there's always

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Speaker 3: a bias for people who get catfish, Like there's always

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Speaker 3: a voice in people's heads, so like, how could you

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Speaker 3: possibly let that happen? And then you listen to this

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Speaker 3: podcast and watch this documentary, it's just like a one

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Speaker 3: party and you're like, this could have been anyone. Like

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Speaker 3: her life was ruined. It happened throughout her entire thirties.

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Speaker 3: It started in her early thirties, like she found out

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Speaker 3: she was catfish when she was thirty nine and now

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Speaker 3: she's just like living this life trying to shine light

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Speaker 3: on like the victims of catfishing. It is so intense.

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Speaker 3: So what happened was, in her early thirties, got a

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Speaker 3: friend request from a man named Bobby, who she kind

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Speaker 3: of knew because they were both part of the same

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Speaker 3: sick community in London. One of her younger cousins, Simran,

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Speaker 3: was dating his brother, so she's like, Okay, this is

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Speaker 3: a familiar person and they started talking. The issue was

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Speaker 3: was that both of them when relationships at the time,

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Speaker 3: they couldn't stop this kind of romantic connection from evolving.

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Speaker 3: They eventually broke up with their partners and just decided

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Speaker 3: to be in a relationship together. And then things started

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Speaker 3: getting really weird. Every time she wanted to like meet

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Speaker 3: up with him or hang out with him, something went wrong,

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Speaker 3: and not just wrong as in like I can't make it,

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Speaker 3: but like crazy wrong, to the point where like he

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Speaker 3: was saying, I've been shot, I'm in witness protection, I'm

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Speaker 3: in the hospital. My heart's about to stop beating Jesus.

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Speaker 3: And then she had to like figure out how to

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Speaker 3: deal with all of this she's obviously like so distraught

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Speaker 3: because like a man, she's like in a relationship with this.

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Speaker 3: Going through all of this, the catfisher made multiple profiles.

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Speaker 3: I think it was said that it was made over

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Speaker 3: sixty profiles of like just connections. So like quote unquote,

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Speaker 3: Bobby was pulling Carrat into these like family group conversations

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Speaker 3: that had like seventeen other people who were also.

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Speaker 2: Taught sounding like Samantha as a party.

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Speaker 3: Probably Samantha, you've listened to the podcast or watched this,

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Speaker 3: you would know that the person who was catfishing k'rat

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Speaker 3: was her younger cousin, Simran.

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Speaker 2: I forgot about that.

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Speaker 1: I did not know that. This is new information to me.

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Speaker 1: That is so brutal, so brutal.

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Speaker 3: And the and Simran, because she was much younger, actually

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Speaker 3: started catfishing care at when she was a teen. Male cousin,

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Speaker 3: female cousin when she was a teen.

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Speaker 1: But I guess maybe she just started it and she

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Speaker 1: got carried away. But how long eight years?

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Speaker 3: Eight years?

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Speaker 1: That's no, that's too long, eight years. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have at the first place. But like, at what

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Speaker 1: point are you, like, I have to get myself out

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Speaker 1: of this situation.

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Speaker 3: Like there's no laws in place. That's saying, care AT's

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Speaker 3: a victim. The victims that the police are saying is

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Speaker 3: Bobby and Bobby's wife because they're the ones who were

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Speaker 3: being used as cat.

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Speaker 1: Being impersonated in lime, which is, oh, yeah, that's really

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Speaker 1: And does the documentary have interviews with all these people?

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Speaker 1: Is that how they tell a story?

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Speaker 3: And has interviews with Kirrat Bobby Bobby's wife here at parents,

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Speaker 3: they don't interview Like they wanted to interview Simran but

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Speaker 3: she declined, but they they did have an actress. This

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Speaker 3: is kind of sad. They did have an actress stand

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Speaker 3: in with like when they were showing kind of screenshots

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Speaker 3: of Facebook and stuff, but because they were like screenshots

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Speaker 3: and photos of like Facebook images, people thought the actress

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Speaker 3: was the real She's been on TikTok for the last

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Speaker 3: few days going, guys, it's not me.

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Speaker 2: I'm an actress.

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Speaker 3: I'm an actress. But it is wild. And it's also

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Speaker 3: wild because apparently most catfishing cases are people that are

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Speaker 3: really close to you.

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Speaker 1: Well, they would have to be the information. Right where

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Speaker 1: are we watching?

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Speaker 3: You're watching this on Netflix?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Is it better than the podcast?

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Speaker 3: No, I think the podcast was better. So I think

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Speaker 3: the podcast was better, but there's more information now that

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Speaker 3: it's been a few years. I think because it's on screen,

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Speaker 3: carets very reserved because they also which I feel terrible

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Speaker 3: for her, they play like the voice note she sends

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Speaker 3: him out loud in front of her, like doting on him,

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Speaker 3: going I love you so much, I can't wait to

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Speaker 3: see you. I can't wait to raise this baby with you.

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Speaker 3: Like no one will ever say parade us.

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Speaker 2: While she's sitting in the room.

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Speaker 3: While she's sitting in the room.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of documentary making I don't like. But

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Speaker 2: I'm still gonna watch it.

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Speaker 3: It is so good and to the point where like

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Speaker 3: even like her other cousins and stuff are like calling

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Speaker 3: Bobby and giving him voice memos and she'll never get

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Speaker 3: a voice memo back because he's in hospital and he

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Speaker 3: has something wrong with his throat then he can't do it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the podcast was that long ago. If

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Speaker 2: you like me and you have a horrible memory, I

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Speaker 2: mean I'd forgotten that it.

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Speaker 1: Was getting reacting to it, because.

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Speaker 2: Even though I listened to it, I honestly think it

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Speaker 2: was like maybe eight years ago. So long ago that

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Speaker 2: I've kind of forgotten it. It was only when you started

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Speaker 2: telling the story that it kind of was like thick

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Speaker 2: click click. So I think even if faces to there,

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Speaker 2: That's why I'm like, I need to rewatch it. I

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Speaker 2: need to watch even though I've listened to the potty.

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Speaker 2: My next recommendation is a little bit darker than both

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Speaker 2: of the ones, even though they were both crimes. Obviously

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: No one died, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 2: The documentary I'm talking about is called The Fire that

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Speaker 2: Took Her. It's from twenty twenty two, and I've only

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Speaker 2: recently watched it and I can't ask it. I can't

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Speaker 2: stop thinking about it. It follows the story of a

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Speaker 2: mum of two, her name's Judy Malanowski, who was set

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Speaker 2: on fire by her partner outside of a petrol station

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Speaker 2: in Ohio in twenty fifteen. She suffered burns to ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of her body, and she was so injured that

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Speaker 2: her own daughters didn't recognize her. Her sister walked into

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Speaker 2: the hospital room and vomited, like it was she was

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Speaker 2: just so so so injured. You could like all of

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Speaker 2: her facial features had kind of melted. It was just refic.

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Speaker 2: Doctors didn't expect her to survive hours. She survived for

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Speaker 2: two years, and in that time she changed history. That's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a hook for you. But she was

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Speaker 2: the first person in history to give testimony, so three

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Speaker 2: hours worth proper court set up cross de fence, obviously

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Speaker 2: from a hospital bed via court link. At her own

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Speaker 2: murder trial.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh god.

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Speaker 2: So she was giving this testimony knowing that she probably

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Speaker 2: wasn't going to survive and that this testimony would be

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Speaker 2: used to convict the man that had set her on

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Speaker 2: on fire.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that is horrific.

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Speaker 2: Her own murder trial, her own murder trial. So it

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Speaker 2: took so many leaps to even get to that point,

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Speaker 2: Like legally this had never been done. They had to

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Speaker 2: go through all these legal loopholes to even allow her

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Speaker 2: to do that. And then once she died. She did

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Speaker 2: die in twenty seventeen, so two years after the attack,

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Speaker 2: they then had to go through all these loops again

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Speaker 2: to be able to show her testimony in court, and

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Speaker 2: it very nearly didn't happen. So she nearly went through

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Speaker 2: all of that for nothing. And the documentary maker I've

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Speaker 2: actually interviewed her and she was like it was probably

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Speaker 2: that three hours of testimony that was her downfall. It

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Speaker 2: made her so unwell because it took so much effort.

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Speaker 2: This is a woman that had seven cardiac arrests, sixty

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Speaker 2: different surgeries, she was in a coma for seven months,

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Speaker 2: like she was never not in pain. But it's fascinating

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Speaker 2: because I mean, as someone who works in true crime,

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Speaker 2: I do a lot of stories about women that are

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Speaker 2: murdered by former or current partners. I mean, happens every

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Speaker 2: week in Australia. And to hear this woman was able

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Speaker 2: to actually explain to a court what he did, what

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Speaker 2: he looked like as he did it, how he reacted,

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Speaker 2: how I reacted, how it felt to be burnt alive

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Speaker 2: like it was. She was so remarkable, like she was

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Speaker 2: doing this. They had to reduce her pain meds so

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Speaker 2: that she could even do it, so she was in

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Speaker 2: so much pain as she did it. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: one of those documentaries that is so sensitively and well

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Speaker 2: made and telling a story like that. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: just talked about monsters. It's so easy to sensationalize crime,

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Speaker 2: especially in today's world where true crime is like gobbled

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Speaker 2: up by audiences. They absolutely love it, and this does

398
00:18:55,704 --> 00:19:02,064
Speaker 2: the opposite. He is so beautifully told and delicately told

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Speaker 2: in her whole family, like her daughters are involved, And

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Speaker 2: that was one part that I found super interesting. It's

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Speaker 2: the first time I've heard the door of a victim

402
00:19:12,264 --> 00:19:15,904
Speaker 2: speak about the impact on their lives, so intimately. The

403
00:19:15,904 --> 00:19:19,264
Speaker 2: one statement I wanted to say was the youngest daughter

404
00:19:19,344 --> 00:19:21,784
Speaker 2: gets really really upset in an interview because she's like,

405
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Speaker 2: why does the daughter of her killer still get to

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Speaker 2: see him in prison? Like why is she allowed to

407
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Speaker 2: see her dad? God, that's not fair. He shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: allowed to see family. I'm not allowed to see mine,

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Speaker 2: Like that's heartbreaking. In it's not something i'd even thought about. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 2: it's just so well done. It's a really hard watch, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but I highly recommend it. It's really well done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love what you're saying about it being so

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Speaker 1: sensitively done, because I find that, as you're saying, there

414
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Speaker 1: are some elements of true crime where where the people

415
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Speaker 1: making it a very dissense that I decided to it,

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Speaker 1: or I feel like it's inviting sometimes people to like

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Speaker 1: revel in someone else's pain when you present it as

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Speaker 1: just entertainment. But I feel like what you're saying here

419
00:20:01,624 --> 00:20:03,984
Speaker 1: is this one is more of just this woe. Put

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Speaker 1: her life on the line to tell this story, and

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00:20:06,064 --> 00:20:08,824
Speaker 1: so it's almost our duty to watch it and engage

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00:20:08,824 --> 00:20:12,104
Speaker 1: in it and listen to what her words were. So yeah,

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00:20:12,144 --> 00:20:13,944
Speaker 1: I definitely need to watch that one. And where can

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00:20:13,944 --> 00:20:14,784
Speaker 1: we watch that gym?

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00:20:14,984 --> 00:20:17,584
Speaker 2: Either Apple or Paramount. Highly highly recommend.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I have another really intense one.

427
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Speaker 2: It is true crime.

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Speaker 3: It is the topic crime. We probably should have broken

429
00:20:24,424 --> 00:20:27,584
Speaker 3: these up in different structure where we go. So the

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Speaker 3: other one I chose was The Keepers on Netflix. Have

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Speaker 3: either of you watched it?

432
00:20:32,184 --> 00:20:34,144
Speaker 1: Well, obviously I'm gonna say no, no.

433
00:20:34,144 --> 00:20:37,264
Speaker 2: And I usually have watched it most so enlightened me.

434
00:20:37,464 --> 00:20:40,984
Speaker 3: It's not necessarily the best documentary I've seen, but it's

435
00:20:41,024 --> 00:20:44,104
Speaker 3: the one that has stuck with me the longest and

436
00:20:44,104 --> 00:20:47,184
Speaker 3: has been ingrained in my brain since twenty seventeen when

437
00:20:47,224 --> 00:20:47,584
Speaker 3: it came out.

438
00:20:47,624 --> 00:20:48,504
Speaker 2: Oh wow that long?

439
00:20:48,744 --> 00:20:52,144
Speaker 3: Yeah, why, it's a lot. Okay, it's a lot. So

440
00:20:52,504 --> 00:20:56,024
Speaker 3: it explores the murder of a nun named sister Kathy

441
00:20:56,144 --> 00:21:00,944
Speaker 3: Sessnik in nineteen sixty nine in Baltimore, and the longer

442
00:21:01,064 --> 00:21:05,424
Speaker 3: the series goes on. It's seven episodes. The bigger the

443
00:21:05,504 --> 00:21:08,944
Speaker 3: investigation becomes and all of this stuff just starts happening.

444
00:21:09,304 --> 00:21:13,144
Speaker 3: It goes into a huge investigation into the archdiocecesse and

445
00:21:13,264 --> 00:21:17,584
Speaker 3: legal authorities of the entire Baltimore State. So it jumps

446
00:21:17,584 --> 00:21:20,144
Speaker 3: from like the sixties to the nineties to present day.

447
00:21:20,784 --> 00:21:24,264
Speaker 3: And Sister Kathy in the sixties was an English teacher

448
00:21:24,264 --> 00:21:26,784
Speaker 3: and drama teacher at an all girls school in Baltimore.

449
00:21:27,064 --> 00:21:28,544
Speaker 3: And it was like one of those schools where like

450
00:21:28,584 --> 00:21:31,584
Speaker 3: a lot of nuns were teachers and like the principal,

451
00:21:31,864 --> 00:21:34,544
Speaker 3: and like the bigger people like were the priests. And

452
00:21:34,744 --> 00:21:37,424
Speaker 3: the priest at the school was named Joseph Mascal and

453
00:21:37,464 --> 00:21:40,544
Speaker 3: he was also the school's counselor. So Sister Cathy was

454
00:21:40,624 --> 00:21:43,144
Speaker 3: very close to her students, like all the girls loved her,

455
00:21:43,544 --> 00:21:46,544
Speaker 3: and she began to suspect that Joseph Maschl, the priest,

456
00:21:46,704 --> 00:21:50,224
Speaker 3: was sexually abusing them. She said, like he would call

457
00:21:50,264 --> 00:21:53,224
Speaker 3: them to his office during class, like over the speaker,

458
00:21:53,824 --> 00:21:57,144
Speaker 3: and then when the students returned to class, they apparently

459
00:21:57,184 --> 00:22:00,784
Speaker 3: were like very quiet, like head down, like just sitting

460
00:22:00,784 --> 00:22:03,944
Speaker 3: at their desk, not talking to anyone because suspicions grew

461
00:22:03,984 --> 00:22:06,904
Speaker 3: and she began to like ask questions, and then she

462
00:22:07,024 --> 00:22:10,024
Speaker 3: was murdered. Oh god, so now we're jumping to nineteen

463
00:22:10,064 --> 00:22:13,464
Speaker 3: ninety too, where a former student of Moscal named Jean

464
00:22:13,544 --> 00:22:17,224
Speaker 3: Wayner publicly accused him of sexually abusing her. She also

465
00:22:17,304 --> 00:22:19,584
Speaker 3: alleged that when she wanted to speak up during the

466
00:22:19,664 --> 00:22:23,024
Speaker 3: time the abuse was taking place, that Mascal drove her

467
00:22:23,064 --> 00:22:26,704
Speaker 3: to the woods where Sister Kathy's body was decomposing and said,

468
00:22:27,224 --> 00:22:29,904
Speaker 3: you see what happens when you say bad things about people.

469
00:22:30,504 --> 00:22:34,024
Speaker 3: So she dead into silence until nineteen.

470
00:22:36,544 --> 00:22:38,584
Speaker 1: Again, this is why I only watched horror with like

471
00:22:38,984 --> 00:22:41,224
Speaker 1: demons and vampires, because I know that's not real. I

472
00:22:41,264 --> 00:22:44,104
Speaker 1: hope this is too close to her. Oh God. Okay.

473
00:22:44,624 --> 00:22:47,624
Speaker 3: So Moscal was removed from the ministry but never convicted.

474
00:22:47,864 --> 00:22:51,784
Speaker 3: He was internally sent for quote unquote treatment and was

475
00:22:51,824 --> 00:22:54,624
Speaker 3: told that he can't carry out priests like practices, although

476
00:22:54,664 --> 00:22:57,624
Speaker 3: he continued practicing as a psychologist until his death.

477
00:22:57,704 --> 00:22:58,104
Speaker 2: Stop it.

478
00:22:58,344 --> 00:23:01,584
Speaker 3: He moved to island and stuff it was wild. So

479
00:23:02,064 --> 00:23:05,184
Speaker 3: now it's like the present time, and so much stuff

480
00:23:05,224 --> 00:23:08,304
Speaker 3: has come to the surface about the connections and power.

481
00:23:08,464 --> 00:23:11,864
Speaker 3: The archdiocese had a more, in the time it was

482
00:23:11,904 --> 00:23:15,984
Speaker 3: revealed that Maskell was accused of sexually assaulting a young

483
00:23:16,024 --> 00:23:19,464
Speaker 3: boy in nineteen sixty seven. The church found out tried

484
00:23:19,504 --> 00:23:21,464
Speaker 3: to hide it, which is why they just moved him.

485
00:23:21,864 --> 00:23:25,584
Speaker 3: So apparently during that time, like whenever priests did something

486
00:23:25,664 --> 00:23:28,304
Speaker 3: like that, they would just move them to a different parish.

487
00:23:28,424 --> 00:23:30,104
Speaker 3: So he was moved to the girls school, which is

488
00:23:30,104 --> 00:23:33,864
Speaker 3: what kind of like made the abuse so much worse. Also,

489
00:23:33,904 --> 00:23:36,104
Speaker 3: he had so many connections to the police. There have

490
00:23:36,184 --> 00:23:39,424
Speaker 3: been allegations of other young girl victims coming out saying

491
00:23:39,464 --> 00:23:42,504
Speaker 3: that the police were involved in some of the sexual

492
00:23:42,504 --> 00:23:44,904
Speaker 3: abuse and like the attacks, like they would drive them

493
00:23:44,904 --> 00:23:47,824
Speaker 3: to the woods and like all of them it was

494
00:23:47,864 --> 00:23:51,304
Speaker 3: just like so messed up, including like there's been like

495
00:23:51,344 --> 00:23:54,384
Speaker 3: allegations that the gynecologists that they send them to would

496
00:23:54,384 --> 00:23:55,744
Speaker 3: also sexually abuse them.

497
00:23:55,944 --> 00:23:58,504
Speaker 2: These kind of stories make me so angry because it's

498
00:23:58,544 --> 00:24:03,344
Speaker 2: not uncommon in these institutions, not just religious institutions. You know,

499
00:24:03,544 --> 00:24:05,784
Speaker 2: we've seen it in gymnastics in like all sorts of

500
00:24:05,824 --> 00:24:09,224
Speaker 2: worlds where this kind of stuff is happening for decades

501
00:24:09,984 --> 00:24:14,144
Speaker 2: and then you know, eventually once all the damage is done.

502
00:24:14,344 --> 00:24:14,824
Speaker 3: Tragic.

503
00:24:19,664 --> 00:24:22,744
Speaker 2: The Weekend watch well thank.

504
00:24:22,584 --> 00:24:26,064
Speaker 1: You both for all of those recommendations and the nightmares.

505
00:24:26,264 --> 00:24:28,664
Speaker 1: And of course we know I spillers love their true crime,

506
00:24:28,784 --> 00:24:31,904
Speaker 1: so if there's other recommendations that spillers have, make sure

507
00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:34,624
Speaker 1: to always hit us up on this spill podcast on Instagram.

508
00:24:34,664 --> 00:24:37,584
Speaker 1: We'd love to know what true crime documentaries you love.

509
00:24:38,064 --> 00:24:39,904
Speaker 1: And now I think the end that you should kick

510
00:24:39,944 --> 00:24:41,944
Speaker 1: off we can watch because we need something a little

511
00:24:41,944 --> 00:24:42,304
Speaker 1: bit light.

512
00:24:42,704 --> 00:24:44,824
Speaker 3: I've got a light one. I mean I got quite emotional.

513
00:24:44,864 --> 00:24:46,024
Speaker 3: I did cry while watching it.

514
00:24:46,224 --> 00:24:46,984
Speaker 1: No, you did it.

515
00:24:46,984 --> 00:24:47,864
Speaker 2: It sounds really light.

516
00:24:48,544 --> 00:24:50,064
Speaker 3: I tear it up a little bit at the end.

517
00:24:50,104 --> 00:24:54,784
Speaker 3: So I watch the latest Venom film, start laugh.

518
00:24:55,064 --> 00:24:55,904
Speaker 1: We've taken a turn.

519
00:24:56,024 --> 00:24:57,344
Speaker 3: Have you heard a Venom?

520
00:24:57,344 --> 00:24:59,344
Speaker 2: I've seen the photo and it looks terrifying.

521
00:24:59,584 --> 00:25:02,864
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Sony. We're in association with Marvel Film. It

522
00:25:02,904 --> 00:25:05,704
Speaker 3: starts Tom Hardy. It's a third installment of like the

523
00:25:05,784 --> 00:25:10,544
Speaker 3: Venom franchise. It's called The Last Dance. No, they can

524
00:25:10,664 --> 00:25:11,704
Speaker 3: absolutely guarante you.

525
00:25:14,144 --> 00:25:16,624
Speaker 1: Thosephonos who sent that thing.

526
00:25:21,184 --> 00:25:29,984
Speaker 2: Of course, the symbiots didn't come here by accident. They

527
00:25:29,984 --> 00:25:32,464
Speaker 2: were running from what we have.

528
00:25:32,544 --> 00:25:43,224
Speaker 3: Somethings longer serve, every thing will, So basically what venom

529
00:25:43,344 --> 00:25:45,144
Speaker 3: is if you haven't watched any of the movies, Like

530
00:25:45,184 --> 00:25:48,824
Speaker 3: Tom Hardy is like this journalist in San Francisco, and

531
00:25:49,104 --> 00:25:52,384
Speaker 3: like an alien asteroid hits Earth and then all these

532
00:25:52,424 --> 00:25:55,224
Speaker 3: like they call them symbi its and they are like

533
00:25:55,264 --> 00:25:58,344
Speaker 3: these like alien gooey creatures that attach themselves to people

534
00:25:58,344 --> 00:26:00,544
Speaker 3: so they can like transform and take over their life.

535
00:26:00,784 --> 00:26:02,224
Speaker 2: Sounds real, LT, Yeah.

536
00:26:02,144 --> 00:26:04,904
Speaker 1: So this I think it actually is quite like it's

537
00:26:04,944 --> 00:26:05,384
Speaker 1: one name.

538
00:26:05,584 --> 00:26:08,144
Speaker 3: Venim took over Tom Hardy's character at first, like he

539
00:26:08,264 --> 00:26:11,024
Speaker 3: was really evil, but now they've decided to like kind

540
00:26:11,064 --> 00:26:13,544
Speaker 3: of be together for a year and like kind of

541
00:26:13,584 --> 00:26:16,464
Speaker 3: like deal with life together. So yeah, so I guess

542
00:26:16,504 --> 00:26:20,184
Speaker 3: they're like an anti superhero. But anyway, getting ahead of myself,

543
00:26:20,584 --> 00:26:24,264
Speaker 3: this last film shows that for the planet to survive,

544
00:26:24,904 --> 00:26:27,304
Speaker 3: one of them has to die, like either Tom Hardy

545
00:26:27,664 --> 00:26:30,384
Speaker 3: or I'm Tom Hardy. I forgot his actual name. It's

546
00:26:30,424 --> 00:26:36,304
Speaker 3: not abondant Tom Hardy, or he just is Tom Hardy,

547
00:26:36,824 --> 00:26:38,664
Speaker 3: Tom Hardy. He's so hot.

548
00:26:38,824 --> 00:26:40,584
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I'll watch it for Tom Hardy.

549
00:26:40,744 --> 00:26:42,384
Speaker 3: Literally that's the whole reason why I got into this

550
00:26:42,424 --> 00:26:44,144
Speaker 3: series in my first place. And there's like this like

551
00:26:44,304 --> 00:26:46,504
Speaker 3: he wears like a really nice suit. For like most

552
00:26:46,544 --> 00:26:49,064
Speaker 3: of it, it's really great, but because it is like

553
00:26:49,104 --> 00:26:50,424
Speaker 3: as you can tell what the title it is called

554
00:26:50,464 --> 00:26:52,904
Speaker 3: the Last End, so I did get quite emotional at

555
00:26:52,904 --> 00:26:54,224
Speaker 3: the end. I don't want to spoil it because I

556
00:26:54,224 --> 00:26:56,264
Speaker 3: know you're definitely gonna want to watch it, but that

557
00:26:56,424 --> 00:26:57,984
Speaker 3: is out in cinemas right now.

558
00:26:58,064 --> 00:27:00,904
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm rushing out there, all right. Before I say

559
00:27:00,944 --> 00:27:03,904
Speaker 1: my recommendation, I should just say that we recently did

560
00:27:03,944 --> 00:27:06,024
Speaker 1: an episode on Comfort Shows, which I'll link in the

561
00:27:06,024 --> 00:27:08,864
Speaker 1: show notes, because I feel like mine is also a

562
00:27:08,864 --> 00:27:11,824
Speaker 1: bit heavy, because I recommend a new thriller series on

563
00:27:11,944 --> 00:27:15,704
Speaker 1: stand called Dead and Buried, which is just what's out

564
00:27:15,744 --> 00:27:17,544
Speaker 1: the sweet guys. I didn't mean it to team up.

565
00:27:17,704 --> 00:27:19,024
Speaker 2: A true crime episode.

566
00:27:19,144 --> 00:27:21,264
Speaker 1: It's a two crime episode. So this is a drama.

567
00:27:21,304 --> 00:27:23,824
Speaker 1: It's based on a stage play actually, so you know,

568
00:27:23,864 --> 00:27:25,744
Speaker 1: the twist and turns are good and the dialogue is great.

569
00:27:25,824 --> 00:27:27,784
Speaker 1: So it's about this young mum called Kathy. She's out

570
00:27:27,784 --> 00:27:30,024
Speaker 1: one day shopping with her son and she bumps into

571
00:27:30,024 --> 00:27:33,144
Speaker 1: this man called Michael McAllister who killed her brother over

572
00:27:33,184 --> 00:27:36,224
Speaker 1: twenty years ago and was convicted and put in prison.

573
00:27:36,304 --> 00:27:38,264
Speaker 1: But she didn't know that he had been released early,

574
00:27:38,744 --> 00:27:41,464
Speaker 1: so she understandably freaks out and is very upset that

575
00:27:41,464 --> 00:27:43,744
Speaker 1: she's just come face to face with her brother's killer.

576
00:27:44,024 --> 00:27:47,064
Speaker 1: She runs home, dives into social media, and realizes this

577
00:27:47,144 --> 00:27:49,504
Speaker 1: man has been out for years and in that time,

578
00:27:49,584 --> 00:27:51,744
Speaker 1: he's started a family and he's living this life and

579
00:27:51,784 --> 00:27:55,104
Speaker 1: people love him. And she's just so enraged that her

580
00:27:55,144 --> 00:27:57,384
Speaker 1: family was destroyed, her brother is dead, and this man

581
00:27:57,464 --> 00:28:00,024
Speaker 1: has been given a chance this second life that she

582
00:28:00,264 --> 00:28:03,144
Speaker 1: sets out to sort of destroy his life as revenge

583
00:28:03,144 --> 00:28:06,024
Speaker 1: and take him down. But there's very dire consequences with

584
00:28:06,064 --> 00:28:08,904
Speaker 1: this because this man has some dangerous people around him.

585
00:28:09,064 --> 00:28:13,024
Speaker 1: And it's four so it's like the perfect weekend binge watch.

586
00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:15,464
Speaker 1: I won't say any more about what happens, but more

587
00:28:15,504 --> 00:28:18,064
Speaker 1: people die, more twists and turns, like the steaks are

588
00:28:18,184 --> 00:28:18,904
Speaker 1: very high.

589
00:28:19,184 --> 00:28:24,584
Speaker 2: I thought he'd still he's served a sentence. Well, I

590
00:28:24,664 --> 00:28:30,384
Speaker 2: keep serving Maine. Cathy. How were you when your brother died?

591
00:28:33,624 --> 00:28:38,704
Speaker 2: And you know what happens you, Nikla Ones, I just

592
00:28:38,744 --> 00:28:41,384
Speaker 2: wanted to see all the things he has my brother

593
00:28:41,504 --> 00:28:44,504
Speaker 2: never had. Is that how you feel, Kathy, that you're

594
00:28:44,504 --> 00:28:48,024
Speaker 2: the only one who can see what's going on? How

595
00:28:48,024 --> 00:28:48,784
Speaker 2: does it end?

596
00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:54,384
Speaker 1: And I for an eye. I mean, yeah, you guys

597
00:28:54,384 --> 00:28:58,424
Speaker 1: would love this is so dead and buried out on

598
00:28:58,504 --> 00:28:59,024
Speaker 1: stand now.

599
00:28:59,424 --> 00:29:01,504
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to the spill today

600
00:29:01,544 --> 00:29:05,104
Speaker 3: and thank you Jim for joining us.

601
00:29:03,264 --> 00:29:03,504
Speaker 2: Thanks.

602
00:29:05,904 --> 00:29:07,984
Speaker 3: If you want to listen to more of Jam, please

603
00:29:08,064 --> 00:29:12,384
Speaker 3: listen to our podcast True Conversation. She always hosts the

604
00:29:12,424 --> 00:29:15,584
Speaker 3: most interesting people. She has a wealth of knowledge. We'll

605
00:29:15,624 --> 00:29:17,744
Speaker 3: put a link to that show in our show notes

606
00:29:17,904 --> 00:29:19,464
Speaker 3: and we will see you back here in your podcast

607
00:29:19,544 --> 00:29:20,864
Speaker 3: feed at three pm on Monday.

608
00:29:21,024 --> 00:29:26,944
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye It