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Speaker 1: So much you're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia

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Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that this

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome to this

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Speaker 1: spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick.

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Speaker 2: And I'm m Vernon.

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Speaker 3: Happy Monday, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited for today's episode because I kind of

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Speaker 2: have separation anxiety from you when it's the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Ah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so glad you said it in a room

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Speaker 1: full of microphones and cameras, so it's forever.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it right into the camera right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited because I get separation anxiety from Laura Brenday.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's exciting. What's less exciting is some of the

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Speaker 1: women who are in the headlines this week, namely Margo

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Speaker 1: Robbie and Vanessa Hudgens. And we're going to have a

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Speaker 1: really uncomfortable conversation about that, I think.

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Speaker 2: But first, Ellen DeGeneres has started touring a stand up

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Speaker 2: gig around the US called Ellen's Last Stand Dot Dot

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Speaker 2: Dot Up Tour. So this is the first time in

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Speaker 2: two years since her talk show's been canceled, that she's

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Speaker 2: kind of been in the spotlight. However, it's been reported

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Speaker 2: that four out of her upcoming twenty seven shows in

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Speaker 2: the US have been canceled, with people who have bought

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Speaker 2: tickets to those fourth shows in particular, are receiving notifications

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Speaker 2: from Ticketmaster saying that they will be receiving a refund

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Speaker 2: and that the organizer of the show has taken them

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Speaker 2: off sale. Like she hasn't made comments on why her

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Speaker 2: show's been canceled, especially the upcoming ones. All people are

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Speaker 2: saying is that it's kind of like a JLO situation

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Speaker 2: where she hasn't been getting enough sales for the tickets.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the shows that have been canceled have

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Speaker 2: been like day two of the same city and day

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Speaker 2: one of that same city, for example Chicago, still have

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Speaker 2: tickets on sale, so they're saying that people aren't buying

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Speaker 2: enough tickets, so she's canceling a lot of those extra

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Speaker 2: shows that she put out there. It's also been reported

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Speaker 2: that so far the show that she has done the

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Speaker 2: stand up for, she's been talking largely about her cancelation

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Speaker 2: and how she's been kicked out of the show business industry.

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Speaker 2: She was saying things like, people are calling me mean,

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Speaker 2: and that's the one thing I'm not. She was also

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Speaker 2: saying that this will be the last time that people

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Speaker 2: will ever see her like on stage or in a

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Speaker 2: big production, and then she's kind of gonna go back

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Speaker 2: into hibernation after that as well. So I think we

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Speaker 2: will be talking about this more broadly about Ellen de

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Speaker 2: Generes cancelation. But this is kind of I think, what

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Speaker 2: is this like, maybe like, is show business really going

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Speaker 2: out or is it once you get canceled you can't

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Speaker 2: really come back from it.

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Speaker 1: Oh No, I think everyone can come back from being canceled.

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Speaker 1: And usually for something like this, it gives the person

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Speaker 1: more fodder, which is why I'm surprised that some of

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Speaker 1: these show dates aren't selling out. And maybe that's overbooking

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Speaker 1: on the tour. Maybe it's a promote thing. We don't

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Speaker 1: really know. But I think it's so interesting that so

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Speaker 1: much of her show is talking about her show ending,

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Speaker 1: and also the way she's done it. In that first

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Speaker 1: stand up, it seems like a very kind of raw

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Speaker 1: take on what happened, because in that first show that

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Speaker 1: she's done, she takes questions from the audience, and someone

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Speaker 1: asked her about it, and she said, I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I was kicked out of show business and I hate

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Speaker 1: the way my show ended, which is such a different

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Speaker 1: story to what she was saying when the Ellen DeGeneres

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Speaker 1: Show came to end, like at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: understand having to sort of wrap this up in a

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Speaker 1: really positive public message at the time around the show,

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Speaker 1: but she was saying that she just felt like it

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Speaker 1: had run its course.

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Speaker 3: She was so proud of it.

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Speaker 1: Every time someone came on, like you had someone like

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Speaker 1: Kim Kardashi in come the show and say like, why

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Speaker 1: are you finishing at nineteen seasons? Why not finish at

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Speaker 1: twenty and make it like a nice round number, and

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Speaker 1: Ellen saying I'm just ready for it to be over.

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Speaker 2: But everyone could read between the line, Oh yeah, of.

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Speaker 1: Course, because of all the allegations, there was an internal investigation,

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Speaker 1: there were allegations. Ellen DeGeneres addressed people behind the scene.

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Speaker 1: She also made a public statement on the show. It

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Speaker 1: should be noted that like a lot of that got

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in allegations about her, but like three producers

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Speaker 1: on the show were also let go because at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, a lot of the allegations were

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Speaker 1: against them and the show itself, but also got quite

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Speaker 1: tangled up in Ellen. And then on stage now she's

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Speaker 1: talking about the fact that she hates it that's how

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Speaker 1: the show ended, and that she feels that she was

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Speaker 1: kicked out and it was so hurtful. But also that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time time where great comedy and

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Speaker 1: great performance art comes from is taking those really raw

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Speaker 1: moments and talking about them.

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Speaker 3: So I'm surprised that people don't want to see that.

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Speaker 2: It's hard Also, like just saying the quote directly versus

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Speaker 2: like actually hearing it in context with her show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like.

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Speaker 2: I would be one of those people who would want

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Speaker 2: to see a show just to see what she does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. Also, this is someone who's been in comedy and

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Speaker 1: showbiz for decades, and she started as a stand up,

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Speaker 1: and so much of her career is based on being

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Speaker 1: a great stand up. So I feel also there's something

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Speaker 1: bigger at play here than just the cancelation, because, if anything,

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Speaker 1: that should make her comedy more enticing.

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Speaker 2: Breaking news, Margo Robbie is pregnant.

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Speaker 3: Allegedly.

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Speaker 2: There have been multiple sources that have confirmed with People

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Speaker 2: magazine that she's been spotted pregnant while boarding a boat

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Speaker 2: with her husband, Tom Akerley in Lake Como. You can

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Speaker 2: also which we don't encourage people to do, but those

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Speaker 2: photos are all over Twitter formerly Twitter now X. Neither

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Speaker 2: them or the representatives have responded to the claim since

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Speaker 2: the photos have been published, But she actually has been

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Speaker 2: trending everywhere since. She's trending on Google, she's trending on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: she's trending on Instagram. And the reactions to this, especially

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Speaker 2: on Twitter, are largely positive. People are over the moon

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Speaker 2: that Margo Robbie is pregnant, to the point where I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is kind of weird. Like there's photos of her

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Speaker 2: being shared, those paparazzi photos that obviously she didn't give

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Speaker 2: a consent for, as well as photos of her from Barbie,

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Speaker 2: because I think that was the last time we ever

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Speaker 2: saw her on our screens in a big way was Barbie.

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Speaker 2: She kind of went behind the scene. She did some producing,

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Speaker 2: she produced, she produced, so she told Deadline that she

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Speaker 2: is going to continue producing twenty four to seven. She's

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Speaker 2: also said, I remember we talked about this on the spill,

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Speaker 2: how she wanted to take a bit of a break

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Speaker 2: from acting, so there have been rumors that she was

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Speaker 2: pregnant because no one's been seeing her. That interview she

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Speaker 2: did with Deadline originally, she said, I also think everyone's

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Speaker 2: probably sick of the side of me for now. I

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Speaker 2: should probably disappear from the screens. While honestly, if I

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Speaker 2: did another movie too soon, people would say her again,

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Speaker 2: we just did a whole summer with her, We're over it.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, that's a bit sad to say

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Speaker 2: about yourself.

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Speaker 1: No, But I also think that because she, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's a businesswoman, I think sometimes first and foremost over

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Speaker 1: being an actress in terms of like her production company

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Speaker 1: and how she runs things behind the scenes, and how

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Speaker 1: she was so like part of setting up the promo

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Speaker 1: tour around Barbie, and it's like she put as much

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Speaker 1: work into the promo tour and the press and the

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Speaker 1: rollout as she did with the actual movie.

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Speaker 3: And I think that.

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Speaker 1: She's just very aware of like being everywhere in the

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Speaker 1: way she was for Barbie. And also before that, like

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Speaker 1: Babylon didn't turn out to be as big as a

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Speaker 1: movie as Barbie obviously, and that you know, it didn't

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Speaker 1: do well at the box office, but her outfits for

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Speaker 1: that at her like press tour and her interviews with

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Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and all that sort of stuff were all encompassing.

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Speaker 1: So we're coming off nearly like a whole year of

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Speaker 1: this Barbie mania around her. And I'm sure if she's

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Speaker 1: looking at other actresses like a Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Hathaway,

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Speaker 1: all of these actresses that have come before her and

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Speaker 1: have had these huge, big media storms around them and

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Speaker 1: then people turn against them, and I think she was

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Speaker 1: almost like preempting that too much that people would not

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Speaker 1: want to see her after Barbie.

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Speaker 2: I also think rereading that interview she did with Deadline

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Speaker 2: was kind of like now reading between the lines, It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like her saying, I want to take a break,

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Speaker 2: I want to do all this stuff in my personal

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Speaker 2: life first before I come back on the screens. And

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Speaker 2: she's kind of like just letting audiences know, like just

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Speaker 2: i't thing, you know, you're not gonna see me for

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Speaker 2: a while.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In case you start those headlines of where is Margo

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Speaker 1: Robbie whatever whatever happened to Margot Robbie.

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Speaker 2: Didn't feeling the Avril Levine like it's not really her

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Speaker 2: yet back and it's not even her.

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Speaker 1: I'm also so interested in just the mechanics of this

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Speaker 1: pregnancy announcement. And as we say pregnancy, I guess we're

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Speaker 1: gonna just record this episode as if we think she

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Speaker 1: is pregnant. This is the kind of interesting thing that

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Speaker 1: happens behind the scenes when something like that this happens.

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Speaker 1: Is that this morning we awoke, I'm assuming you looked

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Speaker 1: at your phone, so do I looked at my phone.

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Speaker 1: There's pictures everywhere of Margo Robbie, but no official announcement.

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Speaker 1: And so when that sort of stuff happens, like in

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Speaker 1: our pod work chat and also in our work chat

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Speaker 1: here at Mama Mia, before we put anything on social

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Speaker 1: or writer story, the conversation start of this is being reported.

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Speaker 1: These photos are everywhere. She hasn't said anything, have a

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Speaker 1: rep said anything. And it's hard with an international star

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Speaker 1: because if it's an Australian star, it's a lot easier

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Speaker 1: for us to check and get comment or reach out

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Speaker 1: to people. But with a star like this that's, you know,

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Speaker 1: so international, it's also really hard to get a handle

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Speaker 1: on what's happening. So then you have this thing where

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Speaker 1: you have to decide do we just run the report

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Speaker 1: like it's being reported everywhere else and then update the story.

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Speaker 1: Do we hold it and not report it, because if

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Speaker 1: it is a fake story or it's not something that

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Speaker 1: she doesn't want out there, then you're feeding into this

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Speaker 1: media frenzy. And it's something that we kind of had

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Speaker 1: a discussion about Vanessa Hudgens the other day, and like

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Speaker 1: anytime there's a baby bump, even Rihanna at the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: like she came out and there's a pregnant stomach and

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Speaker 1: a whole office and every person I've talked to who

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Speaker 1: works in media has the same thing in their office,

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Speaker 1: being like all like.

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Speaker 2: Like, we can see now you're pregnant, but we don't know.

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Speaker 2: You're pressure.

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Speaker 1: You haven't said it, and we have had it drilled

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Speaker 1: into us so intently not to comment on women's bodies

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Speaker 1: and assume anything to do with children, fertility, anything, which

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Speaker 1: is a good thing, But then you have these conversations

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Speaker 1: where you're like, well, half the world is saying this,

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Speaker 1: and do the rest of us hold back and not

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Speaker 1: say it? And coming up next, I think we have

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Speaker 1: to talk about the mechanics of this particular pregnancy announcement

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Speaker 1: because I think it's a lot more intense than what

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Speaker 1: we have given it credit for. Nana.

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Speaker 2: So I originally thought when I first saw the photos,

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Speaker 2: was that how rude like people are taking photos of her.

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Speaker 2: She's obviously not given her consent, and she's probably really

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Speaker 2: pissed off at everyone who's sharing this. I feel like

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Speaker 2: you have a different theory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think when you're someone who's as photographed

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Speaker 1: in public as Margo Robbie is, she also does look

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Speaker 1: beautiful in those ways. Yes, there's a lot at play here.

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Speaker 1: I think one hand is that she and her husband

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Speaker 1: don't have any active social media accounts that we can

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Speaker 1: follow that they post to. They only do any kind

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Speaker 1: of press, especially Margo, when it's to do with something

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Speaker 1: that they're promoting, and so they're very much not in

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Speaker 1: a promotional mode at the moment. But when you're a

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Speaker 1: public figure like that, and if she is pregnant, as

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Speaker 1: we're assuming from these photos, you have to make a

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Speaker 1: decision of how you want that news to come out.

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Speaker 1: And even making a decision to just not care and

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Speaker 1: say like I'm going to leave the house and let

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Speaker 1: the photographers get photos of me, that's still a decision

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Speaker 1: in terms of like how you want the.

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Speaker 3: News out there.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm assuming here is that Margo and her

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Speaker 1: husband and their team whoever is involved in this sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff of like, we're going to be in Italy,

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Speaker 1: We're in an area that is heavily populated by paparazzi,

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Speaker 1: and so it's not completely unbelievable to think that they

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Speaker 1: were like, we're just going to allow these photos to

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Speaker 1: be taken and have the news out there, and then

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Speaker 1: we know that it's been announced in a way that

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Speaker 1: we are comfortable with and we knew was coming. But

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Speaker 1: we're not so public that we are going to make

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Speaker 1: a statement and we don't have social and media accounts

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Speaker 1: we announce it, not anything like that, do you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like something that I assume as a celebrity,

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Speaker 2: you'd want to not have your social media so people

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Speaker 2: can't like read into everything you pose. But I think

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Speaker 2: now for them it's kind of working the opposite as well,

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Speaker 2: where people will just read into whatever they see of

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Speaker 2: you because you're not oversaturated on social so every little

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Speaker 2: glimpse you give into your life, people just like run

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And it's a wee thing to play when

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Speaker 1: you're in the public eye. So much is because you

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Speaker 1: can do what Margot Robbie seemingly has done, which is like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear a crop top with my pregnant stomach out,

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Speaker 1: and I know that it's gonna be photos and then

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Speaker 1: it's out in the world and I haven't had to

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Speaker 1: participate in it, but I know it's happened. And then

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Speaker 1: you also have some actresses who try and go down

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Speaker 1: that path, like I remember when Blake Lively was pregnant

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Speaker 1: with her fourth child, she ended up just posting a

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Speaker 1: whole carousel of images to her Instagram feed, and not

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Speaker 1: because she wanted to. She put out this notice to

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Speaker 1: paparazzi saying, you are all outside my house. You're poking

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Speaker 1: cameras through the lens. You're freaking my kids out. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I've already posed for photos. I've already said I'm pregnant,

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Speaker 1: but you just you want more pregnancy photos.

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Speaker 3: So here you go.

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Speaker 1: Here's about fifteen. Please get away from my house. And

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Speaker 1: it's an idea of like, if you don't feed the

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Speaker 1: machine and try and control the narrative, then the machine

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Speaker 1: will come for you and it's almost more invasive. So

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Margot Robbie and her husband are like

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Speaker 1: these rumors, because they're having rumors for a while that

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Speaker 1: she was pregnant, but there were no photos, so no

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Speaker 1: one was running with it. And so maybe there's an

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Speaker 1: idea of like, we're gonna be hunted on our entire

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Speaker 1: holiday and when we go home to LA and every

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Speaker 1: time we go outside hunted for these baby photos. If

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Speaker 1: we just kind of let them take a few, maybe

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Speaker 1: they'll leave us alone.

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Speaker 2: It's such a gamble. I do remember it happening to

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Speaker 2: Rihanna as well. She took a TikTok video of her

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Speaker 2: baby posted it on her TikTok because it was like

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Speaker 2: reported that paparazzi had photos.

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Speaker 3: Of they'd followed her down the beach glos.

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Speaker 2: What's really annoying though, was when celebrity started getting big

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, and I remember we would always see photos

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Speaker 2: of their like medcla outfits before yeah we got the

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Speaker 2: professional shots, and we'd always be like, God, damn it,

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Speaker 2: why they do that. But it's kind of interesting that

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Speaker 2: they're their own paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, one hundred percent. And also with Margo Robbie's

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Speaker 1: team like they haven't made it announcement, but you know

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Speaker 1: a few different outlets, including Vogue and People Magazine have

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Speaker 1: run confirmations and Marga Robbie has had a very long

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Speaker 1: association with Vogue covers, interviews, exclusive, and then we know

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Speaker 1: People Magazine usually go and check if they're going to

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Speaker 1: run something as fact and not say reportedly they've checked

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Speaker 1: with someone on their team. So when those two came out,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, something has happened, Like they've released

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Speaker 1: information behind the scenes, but they're very trying to make

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Speaker 1: it not look like they're inviting attention onto themselves.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: She probably just wants to go around Italy and have

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Speaker 1: an ice cream and walk next to the water. And

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Speaker 1: she's like, I have to like stage manage this because again,

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Speaker 1: even not doing anything is still making a decision to

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Speaker 1: do something some hard exactly. Well, speaking of hiding, we've

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Speaker 1: had another high profile woman this week have to make

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Speaker 1: a statement about paparazzi chasing down her and her baby.

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Speaker 1: Is Nessa Hudgens, who welcomed her first baby recently with

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Speaker 1: her husband col Tucker, and these photos went everywhere of

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Speaker 1: her with her baby seemingly like coming out of a

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Speaker 1: hospital and walking past a building and this newborn baby.

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Speaker 1: So even though she had publicly announced her pregnancy and

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Speaker 1: talked about it, she hadn't said anything about the birth.

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Speaker 1: And these photos went everywhere. But I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people didn't actually really look at the photos. They

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Speaker 1: just saw the headline Vanessa Hudgens has welcomed her first child,

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Speaker 1: and was like, oh, that's nice, that's really lovely. And

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Speaker 1: then it turned out that they were being stalked by

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Speaker 1: paparazzi and these photos released without their consent, And the

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Speaker 1: first news they had that the photos even existed were

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Speaker 1: going online and seeing all these stories and seeing this

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Speaker 1: really vulnerable moment called on camera, and then Vanessa posted

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Speaker 1: to her Instagram account, We're disappointed that our families privacy

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Speaker 1: was disrespected and exploded during this very special time due

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Speaker 1: to the greed of a long lens camera feeding the media.

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Speaker 1: Despite all of that, Mumdan baby are happy and healthy.

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Speaker 2: That actually makes me quite scared because it's not just

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Speaker 2: celebrities who hide their children like normal people also keep

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Speaker 2: their children of social media as well, especially all their

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Speaker 2: babies like the dark Web is like become such a

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Speaker 2: big thing, especially with AI and stuff, So I can

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Speaker 2: understand exactly why Vanessa Hudgens would be upset, and she

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Speaker 2: has a right to be upset about that, saying with

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Speaker 2: like Rihanna, Beyonce, like the Kardashians, whoever's like sharing photos

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Speaker 2: of their children. And it's so frustrating as well whenever

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Speaker 2: we see celebrities try to hide their children. I know

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Speaker 2: Kylie Jenna did it with her son that everyone gets

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Speaker 2: so angry about it, Like we feel like we have

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Speaker 2: the right to look at these children's faces. And that

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Speaker 2: makes me like have the biggest ick over paparazzi, Like

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Speaker 2: it's the grossest form of paparazzis trying to find like

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Speaker 2: a baby's face and take a like imagine like shoving

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Speaker 2: a camera into a child's face. Like that's so gross.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like you're saying, like not a great conversation to

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Speaker 1: be having. But we're in this moment in time where

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Speaker 1: we have more societal rules around how we speak about

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Speaker 1: women and their bodies than ever before. So there's a

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Speaker 1: few things we know, like you never comment on a

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Speaker 1: woman's body in terms of pregnancy, assume she's pregnant, share

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Speaker 1: photos of a baby, like we all know that, And

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Speaker 1: for a while that was great in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I remember that when Kristen Bell and Dak Shepherd welcomed

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Speaker 1: their first daughter, they pushed really hard to get this

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Speaker 1: law passed, and they got all of these different media

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Speaker 1: companies to sign this no kids policy where there'd be

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Speaker 1: no paparazzi photos of kids. And for a long time

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Speaker 1: that worked, with a lot of agencies and magazines and

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Speaker 1: different places saying like, we just will not buy these photos.

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Speaker 1: So then the paparazzi image economy dried up for them,

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Speaker 1: but slowly that's started now to trickle away, especially with

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Speaker 1: people trying to get these first photos of a woman

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Speaker 1: who's pregnant or these first photos of a baby. And

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Speaker 1: the thing is now you only really need to sell

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Speaker 1: them to one outlet, and there's a few outlets that

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Speaker 1: haven't signed that deal. And with the way the like

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Speaker 1: online works now, all of a sudden, they'll be all

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Speaker 1: over Twitter, all over Instagram, all over TikTok, and then

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if only one company has decided to

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Speaker 1: do it like it only takes one and then you

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Speaker 1: have all these other media outlets like us wondering like

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about this thing because it's in

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Speaker 1: the news cycle, but there's all these caveats around it.

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Speaker 1: So it's almost like the problem got a little bit better,

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Speaker 1: but now it's really escalated to way that I don't

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Speaker 1: think it can be like put back in the box now.

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Speaker 2: And then you also get audiences demanding that as well.

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Speaker 2: Like anything we don't like write on, we have people

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Speaker 2: in our like socials going why aren't you talking about this?

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Speaker 2: I know?

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Speaker 1: And again you don't know behind these scenes, Like I

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Speaker 1: think Vanessa feels a bit more clear cut because when

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Speaker 1: you saw those photos, like they just looked so intimate

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Speaker 1: and so like you can just tell when they're completely

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Speaker 1: not stage just really gross. Yeah, you can tell, and

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Speaker 1: you feel uncomfortable looking at them, yeah, exactly, because there's

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Speaker 1: a way that they have been done. It does look

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Speaker 1: like you're aspiring, like these photos are being taken behind

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Speaker 1: a bush or something, which is how these photos are taken.

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Speaker 1: But then also you have celebrities who are walking into

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Speaker 1: media events or walking in front of paparazzi to like

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Speaker 1: a really packed restaurant, you know, and you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: they're doing that because they know those photos are gonna

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Speaker 1: be circulated and they're trying to put a message out there.

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Speaker 1: So it's always walking that fine line between the photos

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Speaker 1: we know that we're supposed to look at and the

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Speaker 1: ones we know we're not supposed to look at.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.

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Speaker 2: If you love listening to us, we want to know why.

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Speaker 2: What are your favorite types of episodes is that we

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Speaker 2: can watch? Which is my favorite? Is it celebrity deep dives?

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Speaker 2: Do you like the more newsier topics? Do you like

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Speaker 2: it when we give brutally honest reviews on TV shows

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Speaker 2: and movies that you're all watching. Let us know you

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Speaker 2: can d m us at the Spill podcast and we

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Speaker 2: will see you back here in your podcast feed at

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Speaker 2: three pm tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Bye bye,