Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds so fun. I can't come though, because
Speaker 3: I have a think tomorrow where you have a thing tomorrow,
Speaker 3: but I think, what are you doing? Well, I'm just
Speaker 3: busy tomorrow, Like I just en believe no, Like we
Speaker 3: can all hang out, Like we'll just pick you up
Speaker 3: at a we can all hang out. And I don't
Speaker 3: want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. I don't
Speaker 3: want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. Well, why
Speaker 3: don't you just see that I was busy? You just
Speaker 3: keep asking fucking questions. It's cold boundaries. Stop making me
Speaker 3: feel so stressed.
Speaker 4: Or Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to
Speaker 4: But are you happy? Because doom scrolling is its self.
Speaker 2: Reflection And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate
Speaker 2: about happiness and mental health. Today we are going to
Speaker 2: tackle one of the most common challenges that so many
Speaker 2: of my clients are facing. How to say no, especially
Speaker 2: to the people we love.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a big one that this is something
Speaker 4: I see in myself and so many of my friends
Speaker 4: to especially women. Are we going to learn how to
Speaker 4: say no with our full body by the end of
Speaker 4: this episode.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
Speaker 2: This is actually one of my favorite things to teach people.
Speaker 4: Let's get stuck in, okay, Anastasia. We hear this idea
Speaker 4: of toxic relationship a lot, but how do we actually
Speaker 4: know if we have an unhealthy dynamic with someone?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so toxic isn't a clinical definition, rightther A toxic
Speaker 2: gets thrown around a lot, for sure, But I like
Speaker 2: to use the term sort of an unhealthy dynamic or
Speaker 2: an unhealthy relationship. And this can look like so many
Speaker 2: different things. Again, there isn't like a one size fits
Speaker 2: all answer with this. It can present in so many
Speaker 2: different ways. But to give you a couple of examples
Speaker 2: as to what an unhealthy might look like, it might
Speaker 2: look like a relationship where there's an imbalance of power,
Speaker 2: so one person doesn't necessarily feel like their voice is heard,
Speaker 2: like they have the capacity in the relationship to say no,
Speaker 2: to speak their mind, to voice their opinion. There's some
Speaker 2: sort of imbalance in the relationship when it comes to
Speaker 2: power dynamics. It might be that a person feels like
Speaker 2: they can't fully be themselves, their authentic self, like they
Speaker 2: have to hide parts of their identity or keep parts
Speaker 2: of themselves hidden from the other person.
Speaker 1: So it's this idea of not being.
Speaker 2: Fully accepted for who we are by our partner or
Speaker 2: by someone in a relationship. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 2: that a person has to like all of us, because
Speaker 2: being accepted is different to being liked. You know, I
Speaker 2: might not like every part of someone, but I can
Speaker 2: accept them for who they are. And I guess again,
Speaker 2: coming back to this idea of I need to like
Speaker 2: I can be myself and I can have a voice.
Speaker 2: If that isn't there, then we're really looking at an
Speaker 2: unhealthy dynamic in a relationship.
Speaker 4: Essentially, what I'm hearing is at the bottom of it.
Speaker 4: If the relationship doesn't have those key foundations of trust
Speaker 4: and safety, a lot of things can happen, which I
Speaker 4: know we'll dive into a little bit later.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I love that you use the words trust
Speaker 2: and safety because when we think about what a healthy
Speaker 2: relationship looks like, or a healthy dynamic looks like on
Speaker 2: the flip side, it absolutely is one where we feel
Speaker 2: like we have that trust and that security in the
Speaker 2: relationship with someone. And the reality is we all have
Speaker 2: what we refer to in the psychology world as core
Speaker 2: emotional needs.
Speaker 1: So we all have core physical.
Speaker 2: Needs, right we all need water and food and shelter
Speaker 2: and protection from the elements, etc. But we all also
Speaker 2: have core emotional needs. So these are things like we
Speaker 2: all have the need secure attachment with other people. We
Speaker 2: need to feel safe and securely connected to other people
Speaker 2: in our life. We all have the need for being
Speaker 2: able to express ourselves emotionally and to have that heard
Speaker 2: and validated by other people. And we all have the
Speaker 2: need for autonomy, for competence, for independence, to have a
Speaker 2: sense of self, to know who I am in the
Speaker 2: world and feel like I can express that freely.
Speaker 4: And I really it's kind of extending on to expressing
Speaker 4: that freely. I think it's really interesting because when we
Speaker 4: think of unhealthy relationships and healthy relating, I feel like
Speaker 4: communication is really important. And the reality is in a
Speaker 4: healthy relationship you are going to come up against conflict
Speaker 4: and disagreements and everything like that. But I think it's
Speaker 4: around how do you move through that process?
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, and I think it's important at this point
Speaker 2: as well to differentiate between things that are never okay
Speaker 2: in a relationship versus dynamics that maybe don't suit us personally.
Speaker 2: So we never want to be in a relationship where
Speaker 2: we're consistently criticized, put down, called names by our partner
Speaker 2: or by a friend, or by anyone we're in some
Speaker 2: sort of friendship or relationship with. You know, there are
Speaker 2: certainly some no goes that we don't want to accept.
Speaker 2: But then there's also the other side where the way
Speaker 2: I show up in the world might just be very
Speaker 2: fundamentally different to how someone else shows up in the world,
Speaker 2: and that creates a lot of friction and tension and conflict.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. It just
Speaker 2: means that the dynamic doesn't work as seamlessly as we
Speaker 2: might like it to.
Speaker 4: So obviously, for our purposes today, let's drill down on
Speaker 4: how to say no, specifically to people we are actually
Speaker 4: in some sort of relationship with, you know, that can
Speaker 4: be family, partners and friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I have a great example that comes to mind of
Speaker 2: someone I worked with.
Speaker 1: We'll call her Rebecca.
Speaker 2: And she found herself in a really challenging dynamic with
Speaker 2: her mom, the kind of mother daughter relationship is one
Speaker 2: that I and that I hear about a fair bit.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie in the therapy room.
Speaker 2: Where there are certain expectations sometimes placed on a daughter
Speaker 2: to show up in certain ways, whether that be how
Speaker 2: she kind of presents herself in the world.
Speaker 1: So this person I worked with, Rebecca, had.
Speaker 2: A lot of expectations from mom as to how she
Speaker 2: should look, what she should wear, how she should interact
Speaker 2: with other people, but also how she should contribute as
Speaker 2: an adult to the family, how she should help out,
Speaker 2: how she should help take family members to doctor's appointments
Speaker 2: and help them with the groceries and the shopping, and
Speaker 2: you know, be available for all the family lunches and dinners.
Speaker 2: So there was just a lot of expectations placed on her,
Speaker 2: and she really struggled to figure out how to maintain
Speaker 2: her own independence and identity and life whilst also keeping
Speaker 2: that relationship with her mom. Because of the end of
Speaker 2: the day, it's not like she wanted to cut mum off.
Speaker 2: She wanted a happy, healthy relationship with her, but just
Speaker 2: struggle to navigate that.
Speaker 4: Okay, so there's a lot of Rebecca's tuning in today.
Speaker 4: Why is it that we're so inclined to say yes.
Speaker 2: This is a great question because again it comes back
Speaker 2: to biology and what we're hardwired. I know last week
Speaker 2: we were talking about emotions and how those are sort
Speaker 2: of biologically ingrained in us. This desire to say yes
Speaker 2: or the desire to not say no is biologically ingrained
Speaker 2: in us. And I'll explain why from an evolutionary perspective.
Speaker 2: If we think back to the caveman days, it was
Speaker 2: really important for us to be part of the pack
Speaker 2: for the survival of ourselves and survival of the species.
Speaker 2: We needed to be part of the broader group. And
Speaker 2: if we weren't, if we were isolated, we were more
Speaker 2: vulnerable to threats, would be more likely to be eaten
Speaker 2: by a tiger or a lion, or we'd be more
Speaker 2: vulnerable in life, and it would be harder to survive.
Speaker 2: So we have this ingrained sense of wanting to do
Speaker 2: what we need to do to stay connected with others. Nowadays,
Speaker 2: fast forward, how many hundreds and thousands of years, we
Speaker 2: can survive pretty easily without that desire and ingrained need
Speaker 2: to be so connected to other people. Right on a
Speaker 2: physical level, we can survive, but because it is so
Speaker 2: primal that part of us that wants to stay connected.
Speaker 2: We find it quite hard to say no, and we
Speaker 2: find that we are more inclined to say yes sometimes
Speaker 2: when we actually do mean no.
Speaker 4: It's interesting when you say that, because I'm thinking about
Speaker 4: how there's so many times where I actually want to
Speaker 4: say no, but I say yes. But then in my body,
Speaker 4: I'm actually feeling all these different sensations, Like, I know
Speaker 4: you're talking about the biology of things. Is what's going
Speaker 4: on in the body, Like is there actual physical symptoms.
Speaker 2: Exactly in what you describe where we yes, but we
Speaker 2: actually mean no. We feel that tension, right, And again
Speaker 2: I come back to emotions are sources of.
Speaker 1: Data and information.
Speaker 2: If we're feeling that tension in the gut, in our
Speaker 2: body somewhere, I would say to listeners, tune into that
Speaker 2: feeling because it's telling you something. It's giving you some
Speaker 2: sort of message that there's this conflict internally happening within you.
Speaker 4: So what is the impact of when we say yes
Speaker 4: too much?
Speaker 2: It often means that we end up over committing. So
Speaker 2: we might be saying yes to too many things and
Speaker 2: then we're over committed.
Speaker 1: But the downside of that is that maybe we.
Speaker 2: Don't end up having time for the things that actually
Speaker 2: we really want to do, the things that align with
Speaker 2: our values and that are important to us in our life.
Speaker 2: So for everything we say yes to, we essentially sacrifice
Speaker 2: something else. We only have so much time in the
Speaker 2: day and so much kind of energy that we have
Speaker 2: to work with through the week. So by saying yes
Speaker 2: to certain things, we're also saying no to others. And
Speaker 2: the things we say no to might actually be quite
Speaker 2: important to us.
Speaker 4: And I think it's really great that you're touching on
Speaker 4: values again, because I know we spoke about that last
Speaker 4: week and the importance of values and how it's needed
Speaker 4: in decision making, but also how it's really relevant in
Speaker 4: relationships as well, and how we communicate absolutely.
Speaker 2: And the other downside of saying yes too often to
Speaker 2: things that maybe we don't really want to or don't
Speaker 2: feel inclined to, is that over time, we can inadvertently
Speaker 2: send ourselves a message that our needs are not important,
Speaker 2: that my needs are not valuable or as.
Speaker 1: Important as others.
Speaker 2: And it's actually a way in which I somehow lose
Speaker 2: respect for myself if I'm not able to communicate to
Speaker 2: someone else the no or communicate to someone else what's
Speaker 2: important to me and what I need time for, I'm
Speaker 2: actually disrespecting myself in the process.
Speaker 4: It also kind of feels like self betrayal too.
Speaker 5: Hmmm.
Speaker 2: Yes, the idea of sol betrayal is a really big
Speaker 2: one and I think a really important one for us
Speaker 2: to unpack, because it really is this notion that we
Speaker 2: don't give ourselves the time and the respect to fully
Speaker 2: explore what's important to us and communicate that to others, right,
Speaker 2: because there's something to be said for we need to
Speaker 2: show and teach others how we want to be treated.
Speaker 2: So if we show up in a relationship where we're
Speaker 2: constantly saying yes to everything, unless we actually tell that
Speaker 2: person no, sometimes they're not going to know that we're
Speaker 2: saying yes but meaning no. Right, So they're just going
Speaker 2: to continue treating us and acting in the way that
Speaker 2: they are in the relationship because they don't know any different.
Speaker 2: There really is an onus on us to be able
Speaker 2: to communicate with others how we want to be treated,
Speaker 2: how we want to fit in terms of a dynamic
Speaker 2: in a relationship, and what we want from others.
Speaker 4: And it kind of feels like with like the flip
Speaker 4: side of self betray is taking like it's self responsibility,
Speaker 4: Like it is our responsibility at the end of the
Speaker 4: day to be able to communicate that. And I'm interested too,
Speaker 4: because I know Rebecca. You know that's a mother daughter dynamic.
Speaker 4: Like have you seen other kinds of relationships where these
Speaker 4: kind of behaviors are playing out.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so I use the mother daughter dynamic as a
Speaker 2: as a common one. But we see it play out
Speaker 2: amongst friends. You know, we might have a friend who's
Speaker 2: constantly asking something from us. Maybe it feels a bit
Speaker 2: like a one way friendship where the one who's constantly
Speaker 2: trying to reach out and organize things with them, or
Speaker 2: they're constantly asking us for things. We see this in friendships,
Speaker 2: we see it in sibling dynamics, we see it in
Speaker 2: romantic relationships. It can really play out in any kind
Speaker 2: of relationship where there's some degree of intimacy. And when
Speaker 2: I say intimacy, I mean emotional intimacy. Self sacrificing is
Speaker 2: also a really important part of this conversation because we
Speaker 2: might find ourselves in situations where we genuinely feel like
Speaker 2: other people's needs more important than ours. This is what
Speaker 2: self sacrificing comes down to this idea that I need
Speaker 2: to give and give to others in order to feel
Speaker 2: like I'm a good person. And if I don't do that,
Speaker 2: then I feel really bad and guilty about who I
Speaker 2: am in relationships.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I can definitely speak to self sacrificing and
Speaker 4: I can just get out my scroll of all the
Speaker 4: times I've done it, and I definitely know that this
Speaker 4: is so common among so many women, and I know
Speaker 4: for me. I think for me, I'm naturally someone that
Speaker 4: does want to put my needs in the backseat and
Speaker 4: be of service to the people that I love most.
Speaker 4: And I remember recently I was going through a really
Speaker 4: hard time emotionally and I just had to try and
Speaker 4: take care of myself. But I remember getting a miscall
Speaker 4: from one of my good friends who I know is
Speaker 4: really struggling as well. And it was this moment because
Speaker 4: I had a friend of mine who was really honest
Speaker 4: with me recently. She said, Shany, you need to actually
Speaker 4: put yourself first and not keep sacrificing yourself, and that
Speaker 4: was hard to hear, but also I really trust her wisdom.
Speaker 4: So I remember in that moment when I saw that
Speaker 4: miscall from a friend. I just sent her a message
Speaker 4: and I just said, hey, look I can't chat right now.
Speaker 4: I'm really in it. Maybe just send me a voice
Speaker 4: message for now and I'll give you a call back later.
Speaker 4: And that was really hard, because it is it is
Speaker 4: a skill, you know, especially when you've been so programmed
Speaker 4: to go the other way. It takes time.
Speaker 1: But I want to pick up on something you said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you made this comment about putting yourself first, right,
Speaker 2: and we hear this all the time. We've got to
Speaker 2: put ourselves first, you know. Don't just put other people's
Speaker 2: needs first, put yourself first. And I almost want to
Speaker 2: reframe that. And I think your example is a great one,
Speaker 2: because did you put yourself first or did you put
Speaker 2: yourself as equal to the other person? Like from what
Speaker 2: I hear you're describing, you respected yourself and what you needed,
Speaker 2: and you respected what the other person was wanting from you,
Speaker 2: what your friend was wanting, which was to have some
Speaker 2: degree of communication and connection. So I don't know that
Speaker 2: you like necessarily put yourself first, And I feel like
Speaker 2: people can rebel against that. Its a bit of a
Speaker 2: selfish thing to do, but we can certainly put ourselves
Speaker 2: as equal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually never heard it like that before. Now
Speaker 4: that you've said it, I'm like, oh, that's going to
Speaker 4: stick with me because it is a bit of a
Speaker 4: reframe there. And also it's a bit like when you're
Speaker 4: on the aeroplane. It talks about you can put your
Speaker 4: oxygen mask on first, but hear it all the time,
Speaker 4: put your own oxygen mask before you put someone else's.
Speaker 4: But also what you're communicating is, hey, I need to
Speaker 4: have this space for me so then I can be
Speaker 4: better and show up in the world and be a
Speaker 4: better friend to you. After the shortbreak, doc do Anastasia
Speaker 4: is going to teach you exactly how to say no
Speaker 4: to loved ones in a healthy way. Stay with us, Adasasia,
Speaker 4: How did you teach Rebecca how to reset that dynamic
Speaker 4: with her mum and how do we learn how to
Speaker 4: do this with the relationships in our life without burning
Speaker 4: any bridges.
Speaker 2: The first thing I taught Rebecca, and the first thing
Speaker 2: I would recommend to all our listeners who want to
Speaker 2: set some boundaries.
Speaker 1: Is to learn how to not give an.
Speaker 2: Answer in the moment. So when someone makes a request
Speaker 2: from us, it's a really important skill for us to
Speaker 2: be able to kind of say I need to get
Speaker 2: back to you or I can't give you an answer
Speaker 2: right now. And in the case of Rebecca, she often
Speaker 2: felt a lot of pressure and obligations from her mom,
Speaker 2: so she really did want to maintain that relationship. It
Speaker 2: was really important for her to have a close relationship
Speaker 2: with her mom, so she felt that pressure in the
Speaker 2: moment to just sort of say yes, okay, I'll be
Speaker 2: at that event, I'll be at the family lunch, I'll
Speaker 2: take you to the shops on the weekend. You know, yes,
Speaker 2: I'll do all these things. So the first thing we
Speaker 2: actually practiced was how to say, I'll have to check.
Speaker 4: And get back to you, okay, I need you to
Speaker 4: give us a script. How do we exactly say no.
Speaker 1: Yes okay.
Speaker 2: So first up, when we get the request, we want
Speaker 2: to try and say I'll have to get back to
Speaker 2: you right And so this might sound something like, firstly,
Speaker 2: nurturing the relationship. Always nurture the relationship if it's an
Speaker 2: important one to you, let the person know that. So
Speaker 2: if Rebecca's mom is asking her to have lunch on
Speaker 2: the weekend with you know, mum and the extended family,
Speaker 2: and Rebecca's really not quite sure if she.
Speaker 1: Wants to do that.
Speaker 2: When Mom calls and asks, Rebecca could say something like, look, Mom,
Speaker 2: this sounds really lovely. I love spending time with the family.
Speaker 2: I'm just not sure if right now I'm going to
Speaker 2: be able to commit to that for this weekend. I'm
Speaker 2: going to need to just check a few things and
Speaker 2: get back to you.
Speaker 1: But thanks for asking, and I'll let you know.
Speaker 2: Right So, I want to step away from this idea
Speaker 2: of us being like it's a no, like it's a
Speaker 2: hard no to you know, no is a complete sentence. Yes,
Speaker 2: no is a complete sentence, but it can come across
Speaker 2: more beneficial to the relationship if we can sort of
Speaker 2: pad that with nurturing the relationship. So first delay giving
Speaker 2: a response, then I would recommend that, you know, at
Speaker 2: some point Rebecca gives Mam a call back or texts
Speaker 2: her back in some way, again noure the relationship. Hey Mom,
Speaker 2: I know you asked me to join you guys for
Speaker 2: lunch on the weekend, and it sounds like you're going
Speaker 2: to have a really lovely time. I would have liked
Speaker 2: to be there, but unfortunately I'm just not going to
Speaker 2: be able to make it this weekend. I really appreciate
Speaker 2: you reaching out and you know, offering for me to come,
Speaker 2: but it's just not.
Speaker 1: Going to work with my schedule. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 4: So it's really interesting because these are really great. But
Speaker 4: I'm also thinking about even in the first steps, if
Speaker 4: you get backlash straight away and the like I mean
Speaker 4: with Rebecca's mom, I'm just saying hypothetically whims of Rebecca's
Speaker 4: mom felt really offended. She's like, how what do you
Speaker 4: mean you need to go away? Like, because she's noticing
Speaker 4: a difference in the dynamic, right, So it can bring
Speaker 4: up a lot for other people, like how do you
Speaker 4: handle that?
Speaker 2: I talk about this notion or technique of being a
Speaker 2: bit of a broken record, right, because these are the
Speaker 2: instances where we end up saying yes when we actually
Speaker 2: meant no, when we feel the pressure, when we feel
Speaker 2: like someone's guilt us to say yes to something when
Speaker 2: we really don't want to. So I talk about this
Speaker 2: idea of being a broken record, and we can do
Speaker 2: this really nicely, but it's literally just repeating ourselves again
Speaker 2: and again. So it might be something like I hear
Speaker 2: your mom, I know you really wanted me to come. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I'm just not going to be able to make it.
Speaker 2: I get it, Mom, I know you would have really
Speaker 2: liked me there. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen
Speaker 2: this weekend. Yeah, Mom, I know, but unfortunately I'm just
Speaker 2: not going to be able.
Speaker 1: To make it.
Speaker 2: So really just sticking to your guns and very kindly
Speaker 2: just repeating the same thing over and over.
Speaker 4: I really love that because the way that you're saying
Speaker 4: it is kind of what you're saying around nurturing the relationship,
Speaker 4: and you're validating Rebecca's mum's experience where she might feel hurt.
Speaker 4: So it's like, how do you do both? Which I
Speaker 4: really love? So tell us what the next step is?
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So the final step is the negotiation, right,
Speaker 2: and this doesn't have to be the final step, right, No,
Speaker 2: I can't come to lunch.
Speaker 1: Might be the final step.
Speaker 2: But if the relationship is important to us, we want
Speaker 2: to nurture it and we don't want to burn those bridges.
Speaker 2: It might be for Rebecca or for the person in
Speaker 2: Rebecca's shoes to think about what an alternative might be
Speaker 2: that actually suits her needs. So maybe Rebecca comes up
Speaker 2: with another option where she says, you know, look, unfortunately
Speaker 2: I'm not going to make family lunch this weekend, but
Speaker 2: I'd really love to see you one day through the
Speaker 2: week for dinner. Is there a night that you're free,
Speaker 2: I'll cook some lasagna and bring it over, you know,
Speaker 2: So come up with some alternatives to be able to
Speaker 2: negotiate if our goal is nurturing that relationship.
Speaker 4: So do you think a lot of this is influenced
Speaker 4: by society or culture.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we definitely see differences depending on whether people have
Speaker 2: grown up in a family dynamic or a culture that's
Speaker 2: more sort of individualistic versus collectivists. So what we see
Speaker 2: is that in those more individualistic societies and cultures, there
Speaker 2: is more of a focus on being able to say
Speaker 2: no and putting the boundaries in place, and less of
Speaker 2: a focus on repair in relationships. What we see that
Speaker 2: collectivist societies and cultures do really well is that they
Speaker 2: focus on maintaining and repairing dynamics. The reality is that
Speaker 2: we are always going to be faced in our life
Speaker 2: with situations where we have to say no to people,
Speaker 2: where ruptures occur in a relationship. It's normal and it's natural,
Speaker 2: and part of what we need to learn is how
Speaker 2: to be able to do that and become okay with it.
Speaker 4: So a lot of this is getting comfortable with disappointing
Speaker 4: other people.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're all unique people with different ways of thinking
Speaker 2: and being in the world, and that means that we're
Speaker 2: going to face conflict in life and we're going to
Speaker 2: disappoint people sometimes.
Speaker 1: That's just a part of it. And if we're not
Speaker 1: used to saying no or.
Speaker 2: Asserting our needs with other people, it's probably going to
Speaker 2: feel pretty uncomfortable to start with. It's a new, different
Speaker 2: experience for us. So we might actually find ourselves feeling
Speaker 2: a little bit anxious to do it. And if that's
Speaker 2: the case, then I advise listeners go back to episode
Speaker 2: one and have a listen to how to deal with
Speaker 2: anxiety and worry if it comes.
Speaker 1: About guilt tripping, So is that a real thing?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we can definitely have the experience of other people
Speaker 2: making us feel guilty. And what I want to highlight
Speaker 2: here is there is a difference between us feeling guilt
Speaker 2: and other people imposing guilt on us.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to come back.
Speaker 2: You'll probably hear me say this time and time again
Speaker 2: through our episodes that emotions serve a function, they're important.
Speaker 1: So if I feel guilt.
Speaker 2: If I naturally feel guilt doesn't feel pleasant, but it's
Speaker 2: an important emotion because it tells me that I've done
Speaker 2: something that goes against my moral code and my moral compass.
Speaker 2: So guilt gives us important information that we've done something
Speaker 2: that we don't feel good about, so that we can
Speaker 2: not do it again in the future and maybe try.
Speaker 1: And make some sort of repair and amend.
Speaker 2: That's very different to us feeling guilty because someone else
Speaker 2: has said we should or made it out as if
Speaker 2: we should be ashamed of ourselves for the decision that
Speaker 2: we've made. So it's really important in these situations for
Speaker 2: people to stop and reflect on is this guilt my
Speaker 2: own or is it guilt that someone else is putting
Speaker 2: on me?
Speaker 1: BRB Barb Bierb, I'm having a serious Christiss BRB having
Speaker 1: a crisis.
Speaker 4: Guys, it's time for BRB having a crisis. This is
Speaker 4: your opportunity, listeners to get Anastatia's advice and guidance on
Speaker 4: your dilemma, challenge or big live question. Today we're hearing
Speaker 4: from Ruby.
Speaker 5: My partner's a slow riser and loves easing into the weekend.
Speaker 5: I'm the opposite up early ready to get things done,
Speaker 5: and I get restless.
Speaker 1: If the day feels like it's slipping by. He always says, why.
Speaker 5: Do you have to be in such a rush, But
Speaker 5: it's not about rushing, it's just how I'm wired. On
Speaker 5: top of that, he watches every football game all weekend.
Speaker 5: I'm not into it, and sometimes it feels like I'm
Speaker 5: sidelined trying to fit in my own plans. I want
Speaker 5: to support his interests, but I also want space for
Speaker 5: my own. It's tough finding a balance between spending time
Speaker 5: together but also feeling fulfilled in myself on the weekends.
Speaker 2: Oh Ruby, this is a tough one. But I think
Speaker 2: you're not alone because I've heard a lot of people
Speaker 2: talk about this idea of individual identity versus the relationship identity,
Speaker 2: And how do I keep space for my own sense
Speaker 2: of self and who I am in the world and
Speaker 2: in the relationship while also building, developing, and nurturing the
Speaker 2: relationship which forms an identity of its own. What I
Speaker 2: would encourage you to do is maybe, as you can predict,
Speaker 2: this involves having a conversation with your partner, but invite
Speaker 2: him into the solution right when you talk to him,
Speaker 2: share what your thoughts, feelings, and concerns are and try
Speaker 2: and do so using eye statements.
Speaker 1: I feel this. I think that.
Speaker 2: This tends to result in more open communication and the
Speaker 2: other person doesn't feel as defensive if we start statements
Speaker 2: with I. But what I also encourage you to do
Speaker 2: is invite him into the solution right, open up the
Speaker 2: challenge that you're facing with him, and invite him to
Speaker 2: help you find a solution. So this might be something
Speaker 2: like saying, I really value our relationship and I want
Speaker 2: us to both feel.
Speaker 1: Good in it.
Speaker 2: How do you suggest we go about navigating this? So
Speaker 2: you're bringing him in so it can be a collaborative approach, because,
Speaker 2: as you've highlighted, that balance between individual identity and the
Speaker 2: relationship can be a challenging one to get right.
Speaker 1: And there's not one clear answer that's going to work
Speaker 1: every week.
Speaker 2: It's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with an
Speaker 2: ongoing solution.
Speaker 4: Saying no is literally such a skill. Sounds so simple,
Speaker 4: but really it's not. And Asasia, can you give us
Speaker 4: a recap of what we learned today?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, First up, it's okay to say no. Second, we
Speaker 2: can say no to other people while still maintaining kindness
Speaker 2: and respect for the relationship. Third, if saying no feels
Speaker 2: hard in the moment, try to opt for a not
Speaker 2: right now or I have to get back to you. Lastly,
Speaker 2: by saying no, we will have times where others are
Speaker 2: disappointed or they feel let down. This is normal and
Speaker 2: natural and a part of life. If you value the relationship,
Speaker 2: think about what else you can do to contribute to
Speaker 2: the relationship that still nurtures it while maintaining your boundary.
Speaker 2: Next week, we're tackling a biggie. It's when I hear
Speaker 2: about from so many people in my life, not just
Speaker 2: my work. We're going to be discussing the quickest and
Speaker 2: easiest way to get out of a life rust and
Speaker 2: reset when we feel like everything sucks.
Speaker 4: If you have any burning questions, there's a few ways
Speaker 4: to get in touch with us links in the show notes.
Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal history. The
Speaker 2: executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown.
Speaker 4: Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer.
Speaker 1: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 4: I'm a Shani Dante, and I'm.
Speaker 2: Doctor Anastaga Hernus. The names and stories of clients discussed
Speaker 2: have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.
Speaker 1: If this conversation.
Speaker 2: Brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links
Speaker 2: for more resources in the show notes around the topics
Speaker 2: we discussed today. You can also reach out to organizations
Speaker 2: beyond Blue All Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.