1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds so fun. I can't come though, because 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 3: I have a think tomorrow where you have a thing tomorrow, 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: but I think, what are you doing? Well, I'm just 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,519 Speaker 3: busy tomorrow, Like I just en believe no, Like we 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 3: can all hang out, Like we'll just pick you up 9 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 3: at a we can all hang out. And I don't 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. I don't 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 3: want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. Well, why 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 3: don't you just see that I was busy? You just 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: keep asking fucking questions. It's cold boundaries. Stop making me 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 3: feel so stressed. 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 4: Or Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 4: But are you happy? Because doom scrolling is its self. 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: Reflection And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: about happiness and mental health. Today we are going to 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 2: tackle one of the most common challenges that so many 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: of my clients are facing. How to say no, especially 21 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: to the people we love. 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: Well, this is a big one that this is something 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 4: I see in myself and so many of my friends 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 4: to especially women. Are we going to learn how to 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 4: say no with our full body by the end of 26 00:01:27,199 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: this episode. 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: This is actually one of my favorite things to teach people. 29 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 4: Let's get stuck in, okay, Anastasia. We hear this idea 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 4: of toxic relationship a lot, but how do we actually 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 4: know if we have an unhealthy dynamic with someone? 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so toxic isn't a clinical definition, rightther A toxic 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: gets thrown around a lot, for sure, But I like 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,279 Speaker 2: to use the term sort of an unhealthy dynamic or 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: an unhealthy relationship. And this can look like so many 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,919 Speaker 2: different things. Again, there isn't like a one size fits 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: all answer with this. It can present in so many 38 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: different ways. But to give you a couple of examples 39 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: as to what an unhealthy might look like, it might 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: look like a relationship where there's an imbalance of power, 41 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: so one person doesn't necessarily feel like their voice is heard, 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: like they have the capacity in the relationship to say no, 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: to speak their mind, to voice their opinion. There's some 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: sort of imbalance in the relationship when it comes to 45 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: power dynamics. It might be that a person feels like 46 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: they can't fully be themselves, their authentic self, like they 47 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: have to hide parts of their identity or keep parts 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: of themselves hidden from the other person. 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: So it's this idea of not being. 50 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: Fully accepted for who we are by our partner or 51 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: by someone in a relationship. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean 52 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: that a person has to like all of us, because 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: being accepted is different to being liked. You know, I 54 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: might not like every part of someone, but I can 55 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: accept them for who they are. And I guess again, 56 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: coming back to this idea of I need to like 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: I can be myself and I can have a voice. 58 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: If that isn't there, then we're really looking at an 59 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: unhealthy dynamic in a relationship. 60 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 4: Essentially, what I'm hearing is at the bottom of it. 61 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: If the relationship doesn't have those key foundations of trust 62 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 4: and safety, a lot of things can happen, which I 63 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 4: know we'll dive into a little bit later. 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I love that you use the words trust 65 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: and safety because when we think about what a healthy 66 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: relationship looks like, or a healthy dynamic looks like on 67 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: the flip side, it absolutely is one where we feel 68 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: like we have that trust and that security in the 69 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: relationship with someone. And the reality is we all have 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: what we refer to in the psychology world as core 71 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: emotional needs. 72 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: So we all have core physical. 73 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: Needs, right we all need water and food and shelter 74 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: and protection from the elements, etc. But we all also 75 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: have core emotional needs. So these are things like we 76 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: all have the need secure attachment with other people. We 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: need to feel safe and securely connected to other people 78 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: in our life. We all have the need for being 79 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: able to express ourselves emotionally and to have that heard 80 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: and validated by other people. And we all have the 81 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 2: need for autonomy, for competence, for independence, to have a 82 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: sense of self, to know who I am in the 83 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: world and feel like I can express that freely. 84 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 4: And I really it's kind of extending on to expressing 85 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 4: that freely. I think it's really interesting because when we 86 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 4: think of unhealthy relationships and healthy relating, I feel like 87 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 4: communication is really important. And the reality is in a 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 4: healthy relationship you are going to come up against conflict 89 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: and disagreements and everything like that. But I think it's 90 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 4: around how do you move through that process? 91 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, and I think it's important at this point 92 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: as well to differentiate between things that are never okay 93 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: in a relationship versus dynamics that maybe don't suit us personally. 94 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: So we never want to be in a relationship where 95 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: we're consistently criticized, put down, called names by our partner 96 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: or by a friend, or by anyone we're in some 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: sort of friendship or relationship with. You know, there are 98 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 2: certainly some no goes that we don't want to accept. 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: But then there's also the other side where the way 100 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: I show up in the world might just be very 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: fundamentally different to how someone else shows up in the world, 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: and that creates a lot of friction and tension and conflict. 103 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. It just 104 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 2: means that the dynamic doesn't work as seamlessly as we 105 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: might like it to. 106 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 4: So obviously, for our purposes today, let's drill down on 107 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 4: how to say no, specifically to people we are actually 108 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 4: in some sort of relationship with, you know, that can 109 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 4: be family, partners and friends. 110 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. 111 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: I have a great example that comes to mind of 112 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: someone I worked with. 113 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: We'll call her Rebecca. 114 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: And she found herself in a really challenging dynamic with 115 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: her mom, the kind of mother daughter relationship is one 116 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: that I and that I hear about a fair bit. 117 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie in the therapy room. 118 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: Where there are certain expectations sometimes placed on a daughter 119 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: to show up in certain ways, whether that be how 120 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: she kind of presents herself in the world. 121 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: So this person I worked with, Rebecca, had. 122 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: A lot of expectations from mom as to how she 123 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: should look, what she should wear, how she should interact 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: with other people, but also how she should contribute as 125 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 2: an adult to the family, how she should help out, 126 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: how she should help take family members to doctor's appointments 127 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: and help them with the groceries and the shopping, and 128 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: you know, be available for all the family lunches and dinners. 129 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: So there was just a lot of expectations placed on her, 130 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: and she really struggled to figure out how to maintain 131 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 2: her own independence and identity and life whilst also keeping 132 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: that relationship with her mom. Because of the end of 133 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: the day, it's not like she wanted to cut mum off. 134 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: She wanted a happy, healthy relationship with her, but just 135 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: struggle to navigate that. 136 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 4: Okay, so there's a lot of Rebecca's tuning in today. 137 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 4: Why is it that we're so inclined to say yes. 138 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: This is a great question because again it comes back 139 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: to biology and what we're hardwired. I know last week 140 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: we were talking about emotions and how those are sort 141 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: of biologically ingrained in us. This desire to say yes 142 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: or the desire to not say no is biologically ingrained 143 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: in us. And I'll explain why from an evolutionary perspective. 144 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: If we think back to the caveman days, it was 145 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: really important for us to be part of the pack 146 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: for the survival of ourselves and survival of the species. 147 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: We needed to be part of the broader group. And 148 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: if we weren't, if we were isolated, we were more 149 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: vulnerable to threats, would be more likely to be eaten 150 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: by a tiger or a lion, or we'd be more 151 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: vulnerable in life, and it would be harder to survive. 152 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: So we have this ingrained sense of wanting to do 153 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: what we need to do to stay connected with others. Nowadays, 154 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: fast forward, how many hundreds and thousands of years, we 155 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: can survive pretty easily without that desire and ingrained need 156 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: to be so connected to other people. Right on a 157 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: physical level, we can survive, but because it is so 158 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: primal that part of us that wants to stay connected. 159 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: We find it quite hard to say no, and we 160 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: find that we are more inclined to say yes sometimes 161 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: when we actually do mean no. 162 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 4: It's interesting when you say that, because I'm thinking about 163 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 4: how there's so many times where I actually want to 164 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 4: say no, but I say yes. But then in my body, 165 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: I'm actually feeling all these different sensations, Like, I know 166 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 4: you're talking about the biology of things. Is what's going 167 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 4: on in the body, Like is there actual physical symptoms. 168 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: Exactly in what you describe where we yes, but we 169 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: actually mean no. We feel that tension, right, And again 170 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: I come back to emotions are sources of. 171 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: Data and information. 172 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: If we're feeling that tension in the gut, in our 173 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: body somewhere, I would say to listeners, tune into that 174 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: feeling because it's telling you something. It's giving you some 175 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: sort of message that there's this conflict internally happening within you. 176 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: So what is the impact of when we say yes 177 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 4: too much? 178 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: It often means that we end up over committing. So 179 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: we might be saying yes to too many things and 180 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: then we're over committed. 181 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: But the downside of that is that maybe we. 182 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: Don't end up having time for the things that actually 183 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 2: we really want to do, the things that align with 184 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: our values and that are important to us in our life. 185 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: So for everything we say yes to, we essentially sacrifice 186 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 2: something else. We only have so much time in the 187 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 2: day and so much kind of energy that we have 188 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: to work with through the week. So by saying yes 189 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: to certain things, we're also saying no to others. And 190 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: the things we say no to might actually be quite 191 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 2: important to us. 192 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 4: And I think it's really great that you're touching on 193 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 4: values again, because I know we spoke about that last 194 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 4: week and the importance of values and how it's needed 195 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 4: in decision making, but also how it's really relevant in 196 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 4: relationships as well, and how we communicate absolutely. 197 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: And the other downside of saying yes too often to 198 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: things that maybe we don't really want to or don't 199 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: feel inclined to, is that over time, we can inadvertently 200 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: send ourselves a message that our needs are not important, 201 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: that my needs are not valuable or as. 202 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: Important as others. 203 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: And it's actually a way in which I somehow lose 204 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: respect for myself if I'm not able to communicate to 205 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: someone else the no or communicate to someone else what's 206 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: important to me and what I need time for, I'm 207 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: actually disrespecting myself in the process. 208 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 4: It also kind of feels like self betrayal too. 209 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 5: Hmmm. 210 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: Yes, the idea of sol betrayal is a really big 211 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: one and I think a really important one for us 212 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: to unpack, because it really is this notion that we 213 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: don't give ourselves the time and the respect to fully 214 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: explore what's important to us and communicate that to others, right, 215 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: because there's something to be said for we need to 216 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: show and teach others how we want to be treated. 217 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: So if we show up in a relationship where we're 218 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 2: constantly saying yes to everything, unless we actually tell that 219 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: person no, sometimes they're not going to know that we're 220 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: saying yes but meaning no. Right, So they're just going 221 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: to continue treating us and acting in the way that 222 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: they are in the relationship because they don't know any different. 223 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: There really is an onus on us to be able 224 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: to communicate with others how we want to be treated, 225 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: how we want to fit in terms of a dynamic 226 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: in a relationship, and what we want from others. 227 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 4: And it kind of feels like with like the flip 228 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 4: side of self betray is taking like it's self responsibility, 229 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 4: Like it is our responsibility at the end of the 230 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 4: day to be able to communicate that. And I'm interested too, 231 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 4: because I know Rebecca. You know that's a mother daughter dynamic. 232 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 4: Like have you seen other kinds of relationships where these 233 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 4: kind of behaviors are playing out. 234 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, so I use the mother daughter dynamic as a 235 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 2: as a common one. But we see it play out 236 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: amongst friends. You know, we might have a friend who's 237 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: constantly asking something from us. Maybe it feels a bit 238 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: like a one way friendship where the one who's constantly 239 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 2: trying to reach out and organize things with them, or 240 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: they're constantly asking us for things. We see this in friendships, 241 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: we see it in sibling dynamics, we see it in 242 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: romantic relationships. It can really play out in any kind 243 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 2: of relationship where there's some degree of intimacy. And when 244 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: I say intimacy, I mean emotional intimacy. Self sacrificing is 245 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: also a really important part of this conversation because we 246 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: might find ourselves in situations where we genuinely feel like 247 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: other people's needs more important than ours. This is what 248 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: self sacrificing comes down to this idea that I need 249 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: to give and give to others in order to feel 250 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 2: like I'm a good person. And if I don't do that, 251 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: then I feel really bad and guilty about who I 252 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: am in relationships. 253 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I can definitely speak to self sacrificing and 254 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: I can just get out my scroll of all the 255 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 4: times I've done it, and I definitely know that this 256 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 4: is so common among so many women, and I know 257 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 4: for me. I think for me, I'm naturally someone that 258 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 4: does want to put my needs in the backseat and 259 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 4: be of service to the people that I love most. 260 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 4: And I remember recently I was going through a really 261 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 4: hard time emotionally and I just had to try and 262 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: take care of myself. But I remember getting a miscall 263 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 4: from one of my good friends who I know is 264 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 4: really struggling as well. And it was this moment because 265 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 4: I had a friend of mine who was really honest 266 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 4: with me recently. She said, Shany, you need to actually 267 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 4: put yourself first and not keep sacrificing yourself, and that 268 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: was hard to hear, but also I really trust her wisdom. 269 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: So I remember in that moment when I saw that 270 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 4: miscall from a friend. I just sent her a message 271 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 4: and I just said, hey, look I can't chat right now. 272 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: I'm really in it. Maybe just send me a voice 273 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 4: message for now and I'll give you a call back later. 274 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 4: And that was really hard, because it is it is 275 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 4: a skill, you know, especially when you've been so programmed 276 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: to go the other way. It takes time. 277 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: But I want to pick up on something you said. 278 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you made this comment about putting yourself first, right, 279 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: and we hear this all the time. We've got to 280 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: put ourselves first, you know. Don't just put other people's 281 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: needs first, put yourself first. And I almost want to 282 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: reframe that. And I think your example is a great one, 283 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: because did you put yourself first or did you put 284 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: yourself as equal to the other person? Like from what 285 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: I hear you're describing, you respected yourself and what you needed, 286 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: and you respected what the other person was wanting from you, 287 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: what your friend was wanting, which was to have some 288 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: degree of communication and connection. So I don't know that 289 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: you like necessarily put yourself first, And I feel like 290 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: people can rebel against that. Its a bit of a 291 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: selfish thing to do, but we can certainly put ourselves 292 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: as equal. 293 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually never heard it like that before. Now 294 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 4: that you've said it, I'm like, oh, that's going to 295 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: stick with me because it is a bit of a 296 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 4: reframe there. And also it's a bit like when you're 297 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 4: on the aeroplane. It talks about you can put your 298 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 4: oxygen mask on first, but hear it all the time, 299 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 4: put your own oxygen mask before you put someone else's. 300 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 4: But also what you're communicating is, hey, I need to 301 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 4: have this space for me so then I can be 302 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 4: better and show up in the world and be a 303 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 4: better friend to you. After the shortbreak, doc do Anastasia 304 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 4: is going to teach you exactly how to say no 305 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 4: to loved ones in a healthy way. Stay with us, Adasasia, 306 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 4: How did you teach Rebecca how to reset that dynamic 307 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 4: with her mum and how do we learn how to 308 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: do this with the relationships in our life without burning 309 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 4: any bridges. 310 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: The first thing I taught Rebecca, and the first thing 311 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: I would recommend to all our listeners who want to 312 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: set some boundaries. 313 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: Is to learn how to not give an. 314 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: Answer in the moment. So when someone makes a request 315 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: from us, it's a really important skill for us to 316 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: be able to kind of say I need to get 317 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: back to you or I can't give you an answer 318 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: right now. And in the case of Rebecca, she often 319 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: felt a lot of pressure and obligations from her mom, 320 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: so she really did want to maintain that relationship. It 321 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,479 Speaker 2: was really important for her to have a close relationship 322 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: with her mom, so she felt that pressure in the 323 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: moment to just sort of say yes, okay, I'll be 324 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: at that event, I'll be at the family lunch, I'll 325 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: take you to the shops on the weekend. You know, yes, 326 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: I'll do all these things. So the first thing we 327 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: actually practiced was how to say, I'll have to check. 328 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 4: And get back to you, okay, I need you to 329 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 4: give us a script. How do we exactly say no. 330 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: Yes okay. 331 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: So first up, when we get the request, we want 332 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: to try and say I'll have to get back to 333 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: you right And so this might sound something like, firstly, 334 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: nurturing the relationship. Always nurture the relationship if it's an 335 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: important one to you, let the person know that. So 336 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 2: if Rebecca's mom is asking her to have lunch on 337 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: the weekend with you know, mum and the extended family, 338 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 2: and Rebecca's really not quite sure if she. 339 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: Wants to do that. 340 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: When Mom calls and asks, Rebecca could say something like, look, Mom, 341 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 2: this sounds really lovely. I love spending time with the family. 342 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: I'm just not sure if right now I'm going to 343 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: be able to commit to that for this weekend. I'm 344 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: going to need to just check a few things and 345 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: get back to you. 346 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: But thanks for asking, and I'll let you know. 347 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: Right So, I want to step away from this idea 348 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: of us being like it's a no, like it's a 349 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: hard no to you know, no is a complete sentence. Yes, 350 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 2: no is a complete sentence, but it can come across 351 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 2: more beneficial to the relationship if we can sort of 352 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,120 Speaker 2: pad that with nurturing the relationship. So first delay giving 353 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: a response, then I would recommend that, you know, at 354 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: some point Rebecca gives Mam a call back or texts 355 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: her back in some way, again noure the relationship. Hey Mom, 356 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: I know you asked me to join you guys for 357 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 2: lunch on the weekend, and it sounds like you're going 358 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: to have a really lovely time. I would have liked 359 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: to be there, but unfortunately I'm just not going to 360 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 2: be able to make it this weekend. I really appreciate 361 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 2: you reaching out and you know, offering for me to come, 362 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: but it's just not. 363 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: Going to work with my schedule. I'm really sorry. 364 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,959 Speaker 4: So it's really interesting because these are really great. But 365 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 4: I'm also thinking about even in the first steps, if 366 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 4: you get backlash straight away and the like I mean 367 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 4: with Rebecca's mom, I'm just saying hypothetically whims of Rebecca's 368 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: mom felt really offended. She's like, how what do you 369 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: mean you need to go away? Like, because she's noticing 370 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 4: a difference in the dynamic, right, So it can bring 371 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 4: up a lot for other people, like how do you 372 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 4: handle that? 373 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: I talk about this notion or technique of being a 374 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: bit of a broken record, right, because these are the 375 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: instances where we end up saying yes when we actually 376 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 2: meant no, when we feel the pressure, when we feel 377 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: like someone's guilt us to say yes to something when 378 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: we really don't want to. So I talk about this 379 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 2: idea of being a broken record, and we can do 380 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 2: this really nicely, but it's literally just repeating ourselves again 381 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: and again. So it might be something like I hear 382 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: your mom, I know you really wanted me to come. Unfortunately, 383 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: I'm just not going to be able to make it. 384 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: I get it, Mom, I know you would have really 385 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: liked me there. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen 386 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 2: this weekend. Yeah, Mom, I know, but unfortunately I'm just 387 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: not going to be able. 388 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: To make it. 389 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 2: So really just sticking to your guns and very kindly 390 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: just repeating the same thing over and over. 391 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 4: I really love that because the way that you're saying 392 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 4: it is kind of what you're saying around nurturing the relationship, 393 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 4: and you're validating Rebecca's mum's experience where she might feel hurt. 394 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 4: So it's like, how do you do both? Which I 395 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 4: really love? So tell us what the next step is? 396 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So the final step is the negotiation, right, 397 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: and this doesn't have to be the final step, right, No, 398 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 2: I can't come to lunch. 399 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: Might be the final step. 400 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 2: But if the relationship is important to us, we want 401 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: to nurture it and we don't want to burn those bridges. 402 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: It might be for Rebecca or for the person in 403 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: Rebecca's shoes to think about what an alternative might be 404 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: that actually suits her needs. So maybe Rebecca comes up 405 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: with another option where she says, you know, look, unfortunately 406 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 2: I'm not going to make family lunch this weekend, but 407 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: I'd really love to see you one day through the 408 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: week for dinner. Is there a night that you're free, 409 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 2: I'll cook some lasagna and bring it over, you know, 410 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: So come up with some alternatives to be able to 411 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: negotiate if our goal is nurturing that relationship. 412 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 4: So do you think a lot of this is influenced 413 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: by society or culture. 414 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we definitely see differences depending on whether people have 415 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 2: grown up in a family dynamic or a culture that's 416 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: more sort of individualistic versus collectivists. So what we see 417 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: is that in those more individualistic societies and cultures, there 418 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: is more of a focus on being able to say 419 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: no and putting the boundaries in place, and less of 420 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: a focus on repair in relationships. What we see that 421 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: collectivist societies and cultures do really well is that they 422 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 2: focus on maintaining and repairing dynamics. The reality is that 423 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: we are always going to be faced in our life 424 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 2: with situations where we have to say no to people, 425 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: where ruptures occur in a relationship. It's normal and it's natural, 426 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: and part of what we need to learn is how 427 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: to be able to do that and become okay with it. 428 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 4: So a lot of this is getting comfortable with disappointing 429 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 4: other people. 430 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: Right. 431 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're all unique people with different ways of thinking 432 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: and being in the world, and that means that we're 433 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: going to face conflict in life and we're going to 434 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: disappoint people sometimes. 435 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: That's just a part of it. And if we're not 436 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: used to saying no or. 437 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: Asserting our needs with other people, it's probably going to 438 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: feel pretty uncomfortable to start with. It's a new, different 439 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: experience for us. So we might actually find ourselves feeling 440 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 2: a little bit anxious to do it. And if that's 441 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 2: the case, then I advise listeners go back to episode 442 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: one and have a listen to how to deal with 443 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: anxiety and worry if it comes. 444 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: About guilt tripping, So is that a real thing? 445 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we can definitely have the experience of other people 446 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: making us feel guilty. And what I want to highlight 447 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 2: here is there is a difference between us feeling guilt 448 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: and other people imposing guilt on us. 449 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to come back. 450 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 2: You'll probably hear me say this time and time again 451 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: through our episodes that emotions serve a function, they're important. 452 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: So if I feel guilt. 453 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: If I naturally feel guilt doesn't feel pleasant, but it's 454 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: an important emotion because it tells me that I've done 455 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: something that goes against my moral code and my moral compass. 456 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 2: So guilt gives us important information that we've done something 457 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: that we don't feel good about, so that we can 458 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 2: not do it again in the future and maybe try. 459 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: And make some sort of repair and amend. 460 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 2: That's very different to us feeling guilty because someone else 461 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: has said we should or made it out as if 462 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: we should be ashamed of ourselves for the decision that 463 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: we've made. So it's really important in these situations for 464 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 2: people to stop and reflect on is this guilt my 465 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: own or is it guilt that someone else is putting 466 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: on me? 467 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: BRB Barb Bierb, I'm having a serious Christiss BRB having 468 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: a crisis. 469 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 4: Guys, it's time for BRB having a crisis. This is 470 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 4: your opportunity, listeners to get Anastatia's advice and guidance on 471 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 4: your dilemma, challenge or big live question. Today we're hearing 472 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 4: from Ruby. 473 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 5: My partner's a slow riser and loves easing into the weekend. 474 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 5: I'm the opposite up early ready to get things done, 475 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 5: and I get restless. 476 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: If the day feels like it's slipping by. He always says, why. 477 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 5: Do you have to be in such a rush, But 478 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 5: it's not about rushing, it's just how I'm wired. On 479 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 5: top of that, he watches every football game all weekend. 480 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 5: I'm not into it, and sometimes it feels like I'm 481 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 5: sidelined trying to fit in my own plans. I want 482 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 5: to support his interests, but I also want space for 483 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 5: my own. It's tough finding a balance between spending time 484 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 5: together but also feeling fulfilled in myself on the weekends. 485 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: Oh Ruby, this is a tough one. But I think 486 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: you're not alone because I've heard a lot of people 487 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: talk about this idea of individual identity versus the relationship identity, 488 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: And how do I keep space for my own sense 489 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: of self and who I am in the world and 490 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 2: in the relationship while also building, developing, and nurturing the 491 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: relationship which forms an identity of its own. What I 492 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: would encourage you to do is maybe, as you can predict, 493 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 2: this involves having a conversation with your partner, but invite 494 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: him into the solution right when you talk to him, 495 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: share what your thoughts, feelings, and concerns are and try 496 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: and do so using eye statements. 497 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: I feel this. I think that. 498 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: This tends to result in more open communication and the 499 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: other person doesn't feel as defensive if we start statements 500 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: with I. But what I also encourage you to do 501 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: is invite him into the solution right, open up the 502 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: challenge that you're facing with him, and invite him to 503 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: help you find a solution. So this might be something 504 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: like saying, I really value our relationship and I want 505 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: us to both feel. 506 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: Good in it. 507 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 2: How do you suggest we go about navigating this? So 508 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: you're bringing him in so it can be a collaborative approach, because, 509 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: as you've highlighted, that balance between individual identity and the 510 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: relationship can be a challenging one to get right. 511 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: And there's not one clear answer that's going to work 512 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: every week. 513 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 2: It's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with an 514 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: ongoing solution. 515 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 4: Saying no is literally such a skill. Sounds so simple, 516 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 4: but really it's not. And Asasia, can you give us 517 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 4: a recap of what we learned today? 518 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely, First up, it's okay to say no. Second, we 519 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: can say no to other people while still maintaining kindness 520 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 2: and respect for the relationship. Third, if saying no feels 521 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: hard in the moment, try to opt for a not 522 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: right now or I have to get back to you. Lastly, 523 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 2: by saying no, we will have times where others are 524 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: disappointed or they feel let down. This is normal and 525 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: natural and a part of life. If you value the relationship, 526 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: think about what else you can do to contribute to 527 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: the relationship that still nurtures it while maintaining your boundary. 528 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 2: Next week, we're tackling a biggie. It's when I hear 529 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: about from so many people in my life, not just 530 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: my work. We're going to be discussing the quickest and 531 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 2: easiest way to get out of a life rust and 532 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: reset when we feel like everything sucks. 533 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 4: If you have any burning questions, there's a few ways 534 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 4: to get in touch with us links in the show notes. 535 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 536 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 537 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal history. The 538 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown. 539 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 4: Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer. 540 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown. 541 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 4: I'm a Shani Dante, and I'm. 542 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 2: Doctor Anastaga Hernus. The names and stories of clients discussed 543 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 544 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: If this conversation. 545 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 2: Brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links 546 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 2: for more resources in the show notes around the topics 547 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 2: we discussed today. You can also reach out to organizations 548 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: beyond Blue All Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support. 549 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.