1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: It's January fourth, nineteen eighty three in suburban Adelaide, and 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: the Bell family is wrapping up another lazy summer day 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: after the chaos of Christmas and. 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: The new year. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: Ten year old Louise is getting ready for bed and 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: is excited to slip into the brand new pajama top 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: she got for Christmas, pale yellow scattered with darker yellow flowers. 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: At eight thirty pm, Louise and her little sister Rachel 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: say good night to their parents, Colin and Diane, and 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: hop into their single beds, just a meter or so 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: apart in the homes front room overlooking the front yard. 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: At six am the next morning, Diane pops. 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: Her head in. 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: She notices Rachel's still fast asleep, but Louise's bed is empty. 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: After checking the house for her, she frantically wakes up. 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: Her husband. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: Colin inspects the girl's bedroom and makes a hor a 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: fye discovery. The window above their beds is open and 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: the fly screen has been cut from the corner of 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: the window frame. It's flapping in the breeze. They check 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: the house again. They run next door, They canvas the 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: whole street nothing. Louise is nowhere to be found. I'm 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: Jemma Bath and this is True Crime Conversations a Muma 24 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: mea podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: to the people who know the most about them. The 26 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: disappearance and subsequent murder of Louise Bell is a crime 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: that shocked and niggled at Australians for thirty years as 28 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: they waited for answers. How could a young girl tucked 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: up in her bed in a safe suburban neighborhood go 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: missing in the middle of the night. It was the 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing parents have nightmares about, and here it 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: was happening in real life. A man was originally convicted 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: for her abduction and murder, but several months later his 34 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: sentence was overturned and once again Adelaidians were left to 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: live with the uncomfortable reality that there was a killer 36 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: still at large. In nineteen eighty nine, a ten year 37 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: old boy called Michael Black was abducted and murdered about 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: an hour away from Louise Bell's home. The man responsible 39 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: for that and Adelaide High School teacher, was sentenced to 40 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: thirty eight years behind bars. 41 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: It took thirty years. 42 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: And advances in DNA technology to prove that the same 43 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: man was responsible for the murder of Louise. It was 44 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: a highly anticipated trial that started in twenty fifteen and 45 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: ended in twenty sixteen, one. 46 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: That delivered more than a few so prizes. 47 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: Our guest today, Candice Prosser, followed it closely for the ABC. 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: She joins us. 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Now, Candice, who were the Belle family and what were 50 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: they doing with their summer holidays in nineteen eighty three? 51 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: Can you talk us through it? 52 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? So the Belle family were a typical family living 53 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: in suburban area in the outer southern suburbs of Adelaide. 54 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: So it was summer school holidays at the end of 55 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty three, and Louise Bell, who was then ten 56 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 3: years old, and her younger sister Rachel were doing lots 57 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 3: of things that kids did back then with their parents. 58 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: They were just an ordinary family. 59 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: How would you describe the area where they lived. It 60 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: was a suburb called Hackham West. 61 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Hackheam West is in the outer southern suburbs 62 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 3: of Adelaide, very sort of family friendly out of suburbia. 63 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: Back in the eighties, it wouldn't have been anywhere near 64 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 3: as developed as it is now. And the Bells lived 65 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 3: in a very typical little family house in that area. 66 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: It was a blonde brick and had like an open 67 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: front lawn. The sisters shared a bedroom and their parents 68 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: were just next door in the next room. So a 69 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 3: very sort of suburban area with lots of families that 70 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: was a bit further out of Adelaide. 71 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: And the way the house was kind of orientated. The 72 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: girl's bedroom was right at the front of the house. 73 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: So was it shown from the road or how obvious 74 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: was it? 75 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the bedroom that the two girls shared, the 76 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 3: window to that room faced out onto the street where 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: they lived. There was a garden area at the front 78 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 3: which you could walk through to get to the window, 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: and it was quite visible from the street. 80 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: Let's go to the evening of January four. What were 81 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: the Bell family's movements on that evening? 82 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 3: So that evening was typical for the summer holidays. They 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: had had a day where they had had trips to 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 3: the shop, the bank. They'd watched television into that evening, 85 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 3: and then Louise and her sister Rachel were in bed 86 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 3: by nine o'clock that evening and they were listening to 87 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: a tape on the cassette player. That Louise had been 88 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: given for her birthday. So it takes you back to 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: the eighties when kids were doing that, and they were 90 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: listening to that in their room, and later that evening, 91 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: their dad, Colin checked on them, and at that time, 92 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 3: the youngest sister, Rachel, was asleep and Louise wasn't. Her 93 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 3: dad said good night to her, and that was the 94 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: last time that he saw his daughter. 95 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: So when did the family notice or when did the 96 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: parents notice that she was actually missing? 97 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: So it happened early the next morning. Louise's mother went 98 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: in to check on them on her way back from 99 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: collecting the milk from the front door, another throwback to 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties when people got milk delivered to their door, 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: and she went to check on her girls and Louise 102 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: wasn't there. 103 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming she at first might have thought, oh, 104 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: she's gone to the TV, or she's having breakfast, or 105 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: do we know what the movements of the morning were 106 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: trying to find her. 107 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: It was immediately obvious that something bad had happened, right, 108 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: and Louise Bell's parents immediately started looking for her. Her 109 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: dad round the streets, he looked in nearby pools, he 110 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: ran down to the school. They were frantically searching for 111 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 3: their daughter, and the police were called and they arrived 112 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 3: there early that morning too. 113 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: Was there anything that sparked their worry? Was there anything 114 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: suspicious in the room that the parents noticed? 115 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: Yes, so, first of all, it was very unusual. They 116 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 3: knew something was wrong. Their daughter wouldn't just leave like 117 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 3: that and go missing. That morning, they noticed that the 118 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: window in the girl's room had been opened more than 119 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: it had been the previous night. There had been some 120 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: damage to the flyscreen of that window prior to this crime. 121 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 3: On the morning of her disappearance, the parents noticed that 122 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 3: that fly screen damage was greater, that the hole had 123 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: been widened, and the window was also more open than 124 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: it had been the night before. So this was clearly 125 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: during summer in Adelaide. It would have been hot. The 126 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 3: window was left open a crack during the night, and 127 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: in the morning it was clear that that window had 128 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: been interfered with in some way. 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: Had any of the family heard anything, Obviously, Rachel was 130 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: sleeping right next to her and the parents were sleeping 131 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: in the next room, so had anyone heard a rustle 132 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: or her getting up in the middle of the night. 133 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: This is one of the miss of this case that 134 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: I don't think we will ever know the answer to 135 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: how this little girl was taken from her bedroom, sleeping 136 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 3: right next to her sister, a thin wall dividing their 137 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: room from their parents' room. We can't say how that happened. 138 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: The prosecution said that it was likely that Louise was 139 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: enticed out of her room, that any kind of forced 140 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: abduction would have surely woken her family up, and we 141 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 3: will never know. Unfortunately, many answers to this very sad case, 142 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: and that's one of them. In his judgment, the judge 143 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 3: did say that there were so many tantalizing gaps in 144 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,359 Speaker 3: the evidence that he couldn't answer. He couldn't make findings 145 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 3: about that, and he couldn't make a finding about how 146 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: Louise was abducted. But he did say that the prosecution 147 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: scenario that she was lured out of her bedroom was 148 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: probably the most likely scenario. It's really hard to wrap 149 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 3: your head around how it could have happened when she 150 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: was sleeping so close to her family members. 151 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: You said that the police were called quite quickly after 152 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: the family woke up realized she wasn't there. 153 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: How big of a search. Are we talking how. 154 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: Quickly did the authorities rally and what did that look like? 155 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: So this was a huge investigation on an unprecedented scale. 156 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: It was enormous and straightway, there was a large scale search. 157 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 3: During the investigation, police doorknoped two and a half thousand 158 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: homes in the area and they interviewed eight thousand people. 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: So this was all over the news. Everyone knew about 160 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: the Louise Bell disappearance, and yet decades went by without 161 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: any real answers. 162 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: Can you describe Loise? How is she referred to in 163 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: media reports at the time. 164 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 3: I'm just having a look here at the photograph that 165 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: was sent out at the time that we've used over 166 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: and over again of this beautiful, happy, smiling little girl. 167 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: Louise was a schoolgirl. She's got short brown hair with 168 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: a little fringe. That's a photo that so many South 169 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: Australians and Australians will be familiar with. And at the 170 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: time of her abduction, she was wearing her little yellow 171 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: pajama top, which would prove to be crucial later on 172 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 3: in the case. And everyone was searching for Louise. Police, 173 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 3: the public rewards were offered. Everyone knew about this case, 174 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 3: and everyone was trying to find this little girl. It 175 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 3: was unthinkable that a little girl could be taken from 176 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: her own bedroom. 177 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: Did her parents, because it's quite common when someone goes 178 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: missing that the family members might get up and kind 179 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: of do a bit of an appeal. 180 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: Did that happen? Did the parents kind of feel comfortable 181 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: doing that? 182 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 3: I don't think they did. What I'll say is that 183 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 3: clearly Louise Bell's parents have been deeply traumatized by what happened, 184 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: and they've been a very private family. Understandably, they found 185 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: the media focus and attention incredibly difficult while dealing with 186 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: the unimaginable trauma of having your child abducted. Over the years, 187 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: we've heard very little from the Bell family directly, and 188 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: they've kept very private and their grief is very private, 189 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: which the media has respected because this has been an 190 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 3: enduring nightmare for them for decades now. 191 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: There were some rewards announced early on, so it was 192 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: a five thousand dollars reward, and then it actually got 193 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: increased to fifteen thousand because some good Samaritans decided to 194 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: help boost the figure. I guess that kind of shows 195 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: how invested the community was in this little girl. Did 196 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: it kind of really stop Adelaide and South Australia at the. 197 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: Time it did. 198 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: This was something that you just didn't think could happen. 199 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 3: You know, this little girl went to sleep next to 200 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: her sister in their family home and the next morning 201 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 3: she was gone. She'd somehow been taken from her own bed. 202 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: It was just inconceivable that a child could go missing 203 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: in this way and that there'd be no trace. It 204 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 3: was just horrible and everyone was aware of the case. 205 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: It was incredibly high profile for those reasons, and I 206 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: think everybody at the time wanted to do whatever they 207 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: could to help, and it was clear even in the 208 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: judgment nearly forty years later, the judge remarked on the 209 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: fact that it just created so much publicity and anxiety 210 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: in the community. The South Australian community was just so 211 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: shocked by what had happened. It was just so hard 212 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 3: to fathom. 213 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: On in the search for Louise, a milkman came forward 214 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: with some information. 215 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: Can you talk us through what he saw? 216 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: So at the time there had been some tent wires 217 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 3: that had been placed in front of the little girl's 218 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: bedroom window, and the milkmen who delivered their milk in 219 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: the morning would have to sort of step over them 220 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: to put the milk down, and he noticed on that 221 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: morning of the abduction when he went to deliver the milk, 222 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: that those tent slats had been moved out of the 223 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: way so that there was literally a clear path to 224 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 3: the little girl's window. 225 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: Which is super eerie to hear about, isn't It kind 226 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: of shows that there might have been someone or there 227 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: was someone in the area, but obviously at this point 228 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: we had no idea who or what or when. One 229 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: of the next things that happened a few weeks after 230 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: Louise managed was a call from an anonymous caller who 231 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: claimed that he had Louise and he pointed police towards 232 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: some silver hoop earrings as evidence. Can you tell us 233 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: about that call and more about what he claimed. 234 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 3: That's one of the other really eerie aspects of this 235 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: case is that the killer clearly targeted this woman in 236 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: her home and called her and gave her information about 237 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: Louise Bell's disappearance that he wanted her to pass on 238 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: to police at the time, and he was taunting her 239 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 3: a little bit. The evidence at trial was that although 240 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: he started off sounding a bit nervous that he then 241 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: became more confident during the call and was mocking the 242 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: way police had conducted their investigation and pointing to bits 243 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 3: of evidence that he said that they had missed regarding 244 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 3: the window and the fly screen and how the little 245 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: girl would have been taken out of her room. And 246 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 3: he told the woman at the other end of the 247 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 3: line where to find Louise's ear rings. He claimed that 248 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 3: he had Louise with him and that if police went 249 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: to look at this particular location on the corner of 250 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 3: a road, underneath a rock, that her silver earrings would 251 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: be there. And when police went to search that area, 252 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: that's exactly what they found. 253 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: Just to confirm, this lady that received the call, she 254 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: was just a member of the neighborhood. She was not 255 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: linked to the case. 256 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: That's right. 257 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: She was a member of the neighborhood. And it seems 258 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 3: as though the killer picked her for whatever reason. And 259 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 3: there was a second incident that happened where he had 260 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 3: targeted that same woman. 261 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: So this was a few weeks later, and this lady, 262 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: this ordinary person from a nearby neighborhood, found a pajama 263 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: top on her front yard. 264 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: That's right. So that same woman who had received the 265 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: phone call some weeks prior that she'd reported to police. 266 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: She was one morning, just going about her day, dropping 267 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: a kid off at school, and she noticed that there 268 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 3: was something in the letterbox that looked like an item 269 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: of clothing. At that point, she just noticed it, but 270 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: kept walking and she came back to the house, didn't 271 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: really think anything of it. She saw that it was 272 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: a piece of child's clothing, and she just sort of 273 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: put it asigh, thinking that it would just be disposed of. 274 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: And at some point during that day she got the 275 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 3: thought that Louise Bell was wearing pajamas when she went missing, 276 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: and she went back and looked at this pajama top, 277 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: and that would have been a very disturbing moment when 278 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: this woman realized that this was probably linked to the case, 279 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: and so she called police. They came and seized that 280 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: pajama top, and that pajama top became crucial to the 281 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: conviction that happened nearly forty years later. 282 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: What state was the pajama top in? Was it wrecked 283 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: in any way? 284 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: Was it dirty? 285 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's scientific evidence that the pajama top had 286 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 3: been submerged in the Onka Paringa River. The on Care 287 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: Paringa was the river that ran through that area of Adelaide, 288 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: and there was evidence that was very specific to that 289 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: particular river that they could pinpoint that it had been there, 290 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: and there was also evidence that after it had been 291 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: in the river, it had been rinsed and it also 292 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 3: had some cuts down the sides of it. 293 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: When did police turn their attention to a man called 294 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: Raymond John Geesing. 295 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: So, Raymond John Geezing was a pedophile and police received 296 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: some information from informants prison informants who claimed that this 297 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: man Geezing had confessed to them while in prison on 298 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 3: unrelated matters to the murder, adduction and murder of Louise Bell, 299 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: and that formed the basis of the case against that 300 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 3: man when he was originally tried and convicted by a jury, 301 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 3: but that all unraveled pretty quickly. Two years later he 302 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 3: had his conviction overturned on appeal when one of those 303 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: witnesses changed their story and the Court of Criminal Appeal 304 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 3: found that there wasn't enough evidence, It wasn't reliable enough 305 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: evidence to convict this man of murder. So Geezing was 306 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 3: originally convicted of Louise Bell's murder, and that was later 307 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 3: overturned and he walked free. 308 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: And so the reason Geezing was able to get off 309 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: was because his case was mainly based on that circumstantial evidence, 310 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: those inmate testimonies. 311 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 2: There wasn't any physical evidence. 312 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 3: That's right. The prosecution case essentially relied on the testimony 313 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 3: of four other inmates that was found just not to 314 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: hold up to the standard of criminal proof beyond reasonable doubt. 315 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: So Geezing walks free and suddenly we still have this unsolved. 316 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: I guess it's a cold case by now in Adelaide. 317 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how that must have felt for 318 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: the family and the community, knowing that there was potentially 319 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: a killer still at large. 320 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 3: This is one of those cases that's just remained on 321 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: people's minds for years and decades. It was just one 322 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 3: of those really tragic cases that we just never got 323 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 3: any answers to, and it wouldn't be until years and 324 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: years later that any other real progress was made in 325 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 3: this case. 326 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to True Crime Conversations with me Jemma Bath. 327 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with ABC journalist Candy se Prosser about the 328 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: disappearance and murder of Louise Bell in nineteen eighty nine, 329 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: so this is quite a few years after Louise went missing. 330 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: There was a new potential lead that emerged, a man 331 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: named Dietera Fennick. Can you tell us about him and 332 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: what he did that year that helped police understand who 333 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: he was and how he could potentially be linked to Louise. 334 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 3: So in that year, and that was obviously a few 335 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 3: years after Louise Bell's disappearance, a little ten year old 336 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: boy called Michael Black was murdered and his body has 337 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: also never been found. And it was also around that 338 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: time that Fennig was on the radar for sexually assaulting 339 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: another boy. So Fennig was now well and truly in 340 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 3: the science of police and he was convicted of murdering 341 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: Michael Black and sexually abusing the other boy. He was 342 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 3: then sentenced to life in prison with a very long 343 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 3: non parole period. 344 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: So Fennig is behind bars, accused of these other horrific crimes, 345 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: and police are kind of trying to work out whether 346 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: he might have been involved in Louise Bell's murder as well. 347 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: Did they have any links to go off, did he 348 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: have anything to do with that family at. 349 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: All he did. Dieter Fennig, who time that Luise disappeared, 350 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 3: he was thirty four years old. He was a teacher. 351 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 3: He had two daughters, one of them was in the 352 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: same year as Louise Bell, and they were in the 353 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: same school. He lived just a couple of streets away 354 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: from the Bell family, and he was known in that community. 355 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: He was someone who was seen as highly intelligent. He 356 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: was born in Germany and had a slight German accent, 357 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: which was one of the other aspects that became part 358 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 3: of the circumstantial case against him with some of the 359 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 3: eyewitnesses that were called to give evidence many many years 360 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 3: later about what they saw and observed. But Fennig was 361 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 3: a teacher, he was a dad, and he was known 362 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 3: to that community, and he would have gained the trust 363 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: of lots of families. 364 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: Is it that there just wasn't enough evidence at the 365 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: time in nineteen eighty nine or in the years around 366 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: then to charge him or bring him in or do anything. 367 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: It was just these I wouldn't call them rumors, but 368 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: I guess allegations, but they couldn't really lead to a charge. 369 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 3: It was really hard to pinpoint any direct evidence to 370 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 3: the Louise Bell case until police reviewed the cold case 371 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 3: and a detective took over that in two thousand and 372 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: nine and started a review of all the evidence which 373 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: had been sort of stored in various exhibits in boxes 374 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 3: that had been stored away since the early eighties. And 375 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 3: the evidence that had been stored away included Louise's pajama top. 376 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: That was the pajama top that had been left at 377 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: the woman's address. And when police reopened the case and 378 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: did their review, they sent some samples of that pajama 379 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 3: top off to the Forensic Science Center in South Australia 380 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 3: and it came up with a probability match that didn't 381 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: exclude DETA. Fenig. So that was the first initial bit 382 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: of DNA evidence that implicated Fennig. And then police sent 383 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 3: that bit of sample off to a very advanced lab 384 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: in the Netherlands and they matched it to Fenig with 385 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: a huge probability of one in a billion. 386 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: Wow, So that's basically implicating him straight away. There's no 387 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: getting around DNA. You can't fake DNA. 388 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: That's right. So at nine thirty am on Tuesday, the 389 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 3: nineteenth of November in twenty thirteen, which is almost three 390 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 3: decades after Louise's parents woke up to find her missing 391 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: from her bed, Fnig was arrested and charged with the 392 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: murder of Louise Bell based on that DNA link. 393 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 1: So did Finnick have an alibi for the night Louise disappeared. 394 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: So at the time of the murder. Just beforehand, Fennig 395 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: and his family had been on a holiday a canoeing marathon, 396 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 3: and Fennig had actually returned home by himself before his 397 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 3: wife and daughters and was living back at the family 398 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 3: home just a couple of streets away from Louise at 399 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 3: the time of the abduction, But there was evidence that 400 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: he had kept the curtain shut and didn't want anyone 401 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: to know that he was home, and in fact, his 402 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 3: nextual neighbor, who'd been watering his lawn while he was away, 403 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 3: continued to do so after we now know that he 404 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 3: was at home, So when police did that initial huge 405 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: door knocking effort, there was no record that there was 406 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 3: an answer at the Fennig house, and his next neighbor, 407 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 3: who'd been watering his lawn for him while he was 408 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: away and continued to do so after the evidence now 409 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: shows he was back home told police that the Fennig 410 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 3: family wasn't there, and we now of course know that 411 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 3: he was there by himself, and there was evidence that 412 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: later on, when his next door neighbor saw him, Fennick 413 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: had said comments along the line of war, there goes 414 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 3: my alibi, which the neighbor at the time took as 415 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 3: a joke. 416 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: You were there, You sat in the courtroom as he 417 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: went on trial. How did you find that experience? What 418 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: was that trial like? It was actually quite a long trial, 419 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: wasn't it. 420 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 3: That trial was remarkable for so many reasons. I've spent 421 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 3: quite a number of years covering court cases in South Australia, 422 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 3: and this is one of those cases that stays with you. 423 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 3: I've always remembered this case. I don't think I'll ever 424 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: forget it. Certain aspects of it will stay with me forever. 425 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: And I think this was a case that had been 426 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 3: so highly anticipated, and you just got the feeling that 427 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 3: it was so high stakes that after so long without answers, 428 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: this was finally the chance for the wills of justice 429 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 3: to start turning in this case. And there was at 430 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 3: that point still some hope that the court case might 431 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 3: result in some of the answers to those questions that 432 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 3: never got resolved for this poor family. And it was huge. 433 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: I remember they set it up in one of the 434 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 3: larger courtrooms in the South Australian Courthouse and the Supreme Court, 435 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 3: the main building that houses the trials and the Sir 436 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 3: Samuel Way building, and there was so much interest. Lots 437 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: of detectives who had worked on the cases over the 438 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 3: years were there. There was a huge prosecution team and 439 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: defense team and it was a huge trial. Fenig elected 440 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: to be tried by judge alone, without a jury, which 441 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 3: sort of allowed the case to run on as long 442 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: as it did. 443 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: One of the reasons the trial went for so long 444 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: was because there was a medical emergency. 445 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 3: What was that, Yeah, So part way through the trial 446 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: the whole thing looked at one point as if it 447 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 3: could completely derail because Fennig suffered a medical episode. He 448 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 3: had an issue with his heart and he was taken 449 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 3: to whole spit all and was an induced coma and 450 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: had to have heart surgery. So the trial at that 451 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: point was paused and a few weeks later, once he'd 452 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 3: recovered from that surgery, the trial resumed. Just one of 453 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 3: the many unusual aspects of this case. Over this month's 454 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 3: long ordeal of this trial, there was also quite remarkable 455 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: aspects of the evidence. So Fenig actually challenged the validity 456 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 3: of the DNA evidence, and that in itself is so 457 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 3: rare to see. I mean, people just don't challenge DNA evidence. 458 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 3: They might try and explain away some sort of more 459 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 3: innocent explanation about how the DNA got there, but it's 460 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 3: very rare to actually mount a challenge against the scientific 461 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: process of getting the DNA evidence. And that's exactly what 462 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 3: Phennig's legal team did, and that resulted in some special 463 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: late night sittings of the court to get video links 464 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 3: to some of the best, most well renowned scientists in 465 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 3: their fears worldwide to give evidence in this trial about 466 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: the DNA process itself, to satisfy the court that the 467 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 3: analysis that they used to get this match with Fennig 468 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 3: could stand up, and of course the judge later found 469 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 3: that it did stand up. 470 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: I guess to me, that kind of shows that the 471 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: defense didn't have much else to go on, Like why 472 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: would you focus on that, I guess because there's not 473 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: much else to dispute. 474 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: They did then later on provide what they claimed to 475 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 3: be an alternative explanation as to how the DNA evidence 476 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 3: got there. So, after mounting this huge challenge that the 477 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 3: DNA evidence wasn't even valid, they then went on to 478 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: try to explain away how Fennig's DNA could be found 479 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: on Louise's pajama top, saying that it was like this 480 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 3: secondary transfer because Louise and his Phenigs daughter had played 481 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 3: basketball together. But the judge dismissed that there was evidence 482 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 3: that Louise hadn't seen Fennig's daughter for some time, and 483 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 3: that that pajama top was a Christmas present and it 484 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: couldn't possibly have happened the way that the defense claimed 485 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: it could have. 486 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit more about the evidence that 487 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: the prosecution went through. A few witnesses claimed that Fenig 488 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: actually confessed to them, confessed to murder. 489 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: Can you talk us through that? 490 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 3: Yes, So there are a couple of witnesses that were 491 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 3: called to the trial saying that Fenig had confessed to them. 492 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: One was an inmate and one was a pastor, who 493 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: both claimed that Fenig had confessed to them. The prosecution 494 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 3: clearly had to lead that evidence, and the inmate who 495 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: gave evidence was very closely scrutinized by the defense team. 496 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: In fact, Fennick himself didn't give evidence in his defense 497 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 3: in his trial, but the defense did actually call a 498 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: psychiatrist basically with a spell purpose of discrediting this prison 499 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 3: informant who had given evidence in the trial. And that 500 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 3: in itself was another bizarre aspect of the case where 501 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 3: this witness, this inmate, was getting really riled up when 502 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 3: he was thunder cross examination from Grant Algae, a very 503 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 3: high profile, well known barrister, and was insulting him and 504 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: calling him all sorts of names and was clearly very 505 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: rattled by the line of questioning. The judge later found 506 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: that his evidence just could not be relied upon, but 507 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: there were other aspects of the case that were strong 508 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 3: enough to convict Fenig without that testimony. But interestingly, there 509 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: was also plenty of other circumstantial evidence in the case. 510 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: As well as the DNA evidence, there was also this 511 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 3: whole other facet of evidence that the prosecutor, Sandy McDonald 512 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 3: said it was a trail of evidence that spent decades. 513 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: There was this picture that Fenig was obsessed with the 514 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 3: disappearance of Louise Bell and that he would talk to 515 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 3: people about it. He was a teacher at the time. 516 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 3: There was evidence that he had raised it in class 517 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: to the children in his class that he had infest 518 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 3: and talked about it. He was a canoeist, which was 519 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 3: his connection to Theonka Peringa River, and there was a suggestion 520 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 3: that he'd said that that's where Louise's body was. He'd 521 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: talked about it on canoeing trips. He talked about it 522 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 3: over the years, and there was also evidence that a 523 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 3: man sort of matching his description a taxi driver, gave 524 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 3: evidence that he had taken a man through the suburbs 525 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 3: and the weeks after her disappearance, he refused to say 526 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 3: where he wanted to go, but would direct him, and 527 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 3: then stood outside Louise Bell's house smoking a particular type 528 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 3: of cigar that Fenig was known to have used at 529 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 3: the time. And it was sort of this bizarre revisiting 530 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 3: of the crime scene. Those sorts of bits of evidence 531 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 3: in the end didn't quite meet the threshold that the 532 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: court could find beyond reasonable doubt were proved, but there 533 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 3: were plenty of other aspects of the case that were proved. 534 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: You sat there in a room with Finnig. What was 535 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: he like, did he react to the evidence, Did he 536 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: show any facial kind of emotion. 537 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: He was unmoving the whole time. He didn't really give 538 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: much away. I felt like there was a disconnect there. 539 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 3: There wasn't much in the way of reaction to any 540 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 3: of this. He was just very stonefaced the whole time. 541 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: Were the prosecution able to paint a picture of what 542 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: he did, of what happened, of how he did it, 543 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: and where he might have left Louise? 544 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, those are the things that the prosecution simply couldn't 545 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 3: tell the court, and at the end of the day, 546 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 3: the judge simply couldn't find other than the theory that 547 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 3: Louise was somehow lured out of her bedroom by someone 548 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: she knew, someone she trusted, a dad, a teacher. Benigmatched 549 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 3: that description. There was no other explanation as to how 550 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 3: Louise could have been abducted in those circumstances without anyone knowing. 551 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 3: It was just so difficult to answer some of the 552 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: enduring questions that remain about this case, and at the 553 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 3: end of the day, the prosecution couldn't do that. The 554 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 3: court couldn't do that. So there are many aspects of 555 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 3: the case that I don't think we'll ever know the 556 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: answer to about what happened when Louise was taken, how 557 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 3: she was murdered, when she was murdered, But at the 558 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: end of the day, the judge found that he was 559 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 3: satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that it was Fenig, and he 560 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 3: didn't need to answer those specific questions in order to 561 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 3: make his finding. 562 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you quickly about that anonymous 563 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: call that we spoke about earlier. Was the court able 564 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: to ascertain that that was him the called and why 565 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: he might have made a call like that? 566 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, the judge found that it was the killer who 567 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: made that call, and as to why, that's one of 568 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 3: the other questions that will never really know the answer 569 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 3: to what goes on in a killer's mind, a deranged 570 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 3: person's mind, someone who would take a child and kill them, 571 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 3: Other than perhaps there was some perverted attention that he 572 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 3: was getting from speaking about the case and seeing police 573 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 3: get led to evidence that he had left for them. 574 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 3: He was taunting police, That's what he was trying to 575 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 3: do through this third party. That's the only explanation you 576 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 3: can think as to why he would do that that 577 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 3: Over the years, this obsession with the Louise Bell case. 578 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: He wanted to talk about it. He wanted to seek 579 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 3: that perverse gratification from talking about the case. One can 580 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 3: only assume that was part of the motivation for making 581 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: the phone call. 582 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: He was convicted of murder finally in July twenty sixteen. 583 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,479 Speaker 1: Were you in the courtroom for that? Were you sitting 584 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: there when that happened? I was how was it? 585 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 2: What happened? Was he there? Did he react? 586 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm so curious as to what that moment was. It 587 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: was so many years in the making. 588 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 3: That was huge that moment. There's always a sense of 589 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 3: huge anticipation, almost like a sickening feeling, when a verdict's 590 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 3: about to be delivered. There's just so much writing on it, 591 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 3: and that atmosphere is palpable in the courtroom, never more 592 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 3: so that I've experienced than in this case. Every available 593 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 3: area of the public gallery was packed. We had retired 594 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 3: detectives filling the courtroom, people who used to know Louise. 595 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: Just so many people had come for this moment. It 596 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 3: was a trial by judge alone, So the judge after 597 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 3: the trial would go off and consider the verdict and 598 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 3: would then publish his written reasons for a verdict, rather 599 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 3: than in a jury trial where you just sort of wait, 600 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 3: you didn't know when they'd come back. We knew when 601 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 3: this verdict was being delivered, and there was such a 602 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 3: sense of anticipation and I think you could have heard 603 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 3: a pin drop in that courtroom when we were waiting 604 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 3: for Justice Michael David to deliver his verdict. And it 605 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 3: was a hugely emotional moment for everyone in that courtroom. 606 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 2: And what was the finding. 607 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 3: Justice David found Fennig guilty of murdering Louise Belle. He 608 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 3: reached the threshold of beyond reasonable doubt that it was Fennig, 609 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 3: and he found him guilty. Justice David said something at 610 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 3: that moment that is incredibly rare for a judge to say, 611 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: and I'll never forget it. And Justice David was one 612 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 3: of these fantastic, rare types of judges who was just 613 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 3: great at getting right to the heart of a matter 614 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 3: and cutting through all the legal ees and just asking 615 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 3: really great pointed questions. And after he delivered his verdict, 616 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 3: just as David asked Finnig to reveal where the bodies 617 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 3: of Louise Belle and Michael Black were and he said 618 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 3: that may or may not affect his sentence. So you've 619 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 3: got the Supreme Court judge directly appealing to a killer 620 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 3: to reveal where these children's bodies. 621 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 2: Are, which is unprecedented. 622 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 3: That was a huge moment and extremely emotional. 623 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: Did he reveal where the bodies were? 624 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 3: Unfortunately not. There was some hope at that stage that 625 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 3: now that there was this finding of guilt, that these 626 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 3: poor families could finally lay their children to rest, but 627 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: it wasn't to be. Fennig just continued to maintain his innocence. 628 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 3: He showed no remorse. He lodged in appeal against his conviction, 629 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 3: which was ultimately unsuccessful, and he's now serving the rest 630 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 3: of his days in prison. And unfortunately, that's something that 631 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 3: the family has had to deal with on top of 632 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 3: this awful tragedy, is never being able to lay their 633 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 3: daughter to rest. 634 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: Did we hear from the Bell family after the verdict? 635 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 3: The parents were too distressed, clearly to speak to the media. 636 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 3: But after the verdict there was a rare lack statement 637 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 3: from the family and Colin Bell stood next to the 638 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 3: investigating officer while the investigating officer read his statement. 639 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 4: Today's verdict leaves us feeling relieved. It has been a 640 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 4: long time coming, and while it's a significant outcome, it 641 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 4: is the end, not the end of this difficult journey. 642 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 4: Our beloved ten year old daughter was taken from her 643 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 4: own bedroom, a place where she should be safe, and 644 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 4: has never come home. Words cannot describe the impact this 645 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 4: has had on our lives. Today is the culmination of 646 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 4: our struggles to find answers for Luis. That is what 647 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 4: makes today's decision so important. It is a small victory 648 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 4: for Louis. We still want to be able to lay 649 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 4: Luise to rest. 650 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 3: It was a really moving moment, but again, the family's 651 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 3: very private. They understandably don't want to speak about their 652 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 3: grief publicly, and in fact, they declined to give a 653 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 3: victim impact statement as part of the sentencing process because 654 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 3: the court couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be published in 655 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 3: the media. And in that statement, he thanked police, and 656 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 3: as he stood next to the detective who was reading 657 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 3: that statement, it just you just can't help but feel 658 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 3: heartbroken for this man who's mourning the loss of his 659 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 3: daughter after so many years. Sorry, I kind of been emotional. 660 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 2: Actually, you're right. 661 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: Being in those courtrooms, I've done that. I've been at 662 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: a sentence and it's really hard, especially because you're often 663 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: sitting beside or behind family. 664 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of those emotional things that I think 665 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 3: at the time when I covered this case, I really 666 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 3: remember it really got to me, as it does with everyone. 667 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 3: It's you just can't help but think of about this 668 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 3: little girl and her poor family and what they've been through. 669 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 3: And since covering that case, I've become a mum myself, 670 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 3: and yeah, it's really hard to think about what that 671 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 3: family has gone through. I'll always remember Louise's dad, Colin Bell, 672 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: just the trauma that he's been through, and he's clearly 673 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 3: still extremely affected by it, and yeah, it's heartbreaking. You 674 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 3: can really see it written all over his face, and 675 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 3: I really feel for him and for all of Louisa's family, 676 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 3: and I think we all did, all the detectives, all 677 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 3: the journalists, everyone who'd been involved in that case. Just 678 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 3: so many heartbreaking aspects of it that you can just 679 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,240 Speaker 3: never give this family the answers that they deserve. 680 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: Thanks to Candie for assisting us to tell this story. 681 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations is a Mum of Meer podcast hosted 682 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: and produced by me Jemma Baff with audio design by 683 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: Scott Stronik. Our executive producer is Giamoylan. If you enjoyed 684 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,320 Speaker 1: this episode, let us know by leaving a rating or 685 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: review in your podcast app. Thanks so much for listening. 686 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another True Crime Conversation. 687 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 3: True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and 688 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 3: waters that this podcast was recorded on