Speaker 1: You're listening to I'MM with Me podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
Speaker 2: today I have so first YEA. Every week we answer
Speaker 2: your burning career questions in the simplest way possible because
Speaker 2: we're busy. We know you're busy, so we're not going
Speaker 2: to sugarcoat anything. We're just going to give you real
Speaker 2: answers without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1: This week we're getting into working well with the team,
Speaker 1: vague managers and desk etiquette.
Speaker 2: Super spicy questions this week, which is why this week
Speaker 2: in particular, we've chosen all of the questions to be
Speaker 2: from completely anonymous submissions. So if you do have a
Speaker 2: burning career or workplace question that you're kind of scared
Speaker 2: to put your name on, you can just email us
Speaker 2: message us dm US anonymously and we won't say your name.
Speaker 2: Your secret is kept with us. So the first one
Speaker 2: we're going to get into came through our inbox and
Speaker 2: it said, I'm working with a teammate on a project
Speaker 2: and they keep missing the deadlines. It's so frustrating. Should
Speaker 2: I tell my manager? And is it ever okay to
Speaker 2: throw someone under the bus? This question is so spicy
Speaker 2: to me because I've had definitely experiences of working with
Speaker 2: someone and them just not pulling their weight. But I
Speaker 2: never thought about escalating that. I'd always just do all
Speaker 2: the work. And then I just talked to my manager
Speaker 2: and say, I'd rather work on projects by myself.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, have you ever had the flip happen where
Speaker 1: a coworker has saved you, like they could have thrown
Speaker 1: you under the bus and they actually didn't and saved you.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've had that happen to me many times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I think about those moments all the time.
Speaker 1: I know you're like, I'm going to love you forever.
Speaker 1: I remember I had this woman I was I just
Speaker 1: started working at Google. Maybe it was like six months in,
Speaker 1: like long enough that you're meant to know what you're doing,
Speaker 1: but I still did not, and we had this like
Speaker 1: a weekly whip with our manager. And our team was
Speaker 1: quite small at the time. I think it was even
Speaker 1: just three people. And at the end of the quarter,
Speaker 1: you have to have spent one hundred percent of your budget.
Speaker 1: So most companies, if you go over budget, you get
Speaker 1: in trouble. At Google, it was like if you went
Speaker 1: under budget you got control. I hadn't spent so I
Speaker 1: was like way under budget and our team was way
Speaker 1: under budget.
Speaker 3: But it was my fault.
Speaker 1: And our manager in the meeting was like, why are
Speaker 1: we so out of the budget. This is a real problem,
Speaker 1: and my teammates jumped in. He's like, no, soph and
Speaker 1: I had already talked about it. We're gonna split some
Speaker 1: budget between us and figure things out straight after this.
Speaker 1: We'll send you an email. It's all sorted. And he
Speaker 1: just saved me in the meeting. It was completely my fault.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna love you forever. So like, back
Speaker 1: to the question that this person sent in, is it
Speaker 1: ever okay to throw someone under the bus if it's
Speaker 1: a last resort, But first you have to ask yourself
Speaker 1: two things. So one, have you tried everything you can
Speaker 1: to resolve it directly with the person first? And then two,
Speaker 1: what is your motivation for actually throwing someone under the bus,
Speaker 1: Because sometimes people think they can do it by making
Speaker 1: someone else look bad they look better, and it's a
Speaker 1: really bad.
Speaker 3: Idea to do that.
Speaker 1: So first of all, in this situation, I think this
Speaker 1: person keeps missing project deadlines, which is actually super annoying
Speaker 1: and it can make you look bad and it can
Speaker 1: be actually bad for the outcome of the project. So
Speaker 1: to your point, Emmern, you're taking all the work on
Speaker 1: and then you know, just asking not to collaborate with
Speaker 1: people anymore. It's like what you could do is talk
Speaker 1: to the person first and try and ask, you know,
Speaker 1: is there something going on for you?
Speaker 3: What is making it hard for you to meet these deadlines?
Speaker 1: I mean, people have got a lot of stuff going
Speaker 1: in their lives, and so I always appreciate the coworkers
Speaker 1: who first just come and talk to you about stuff
Speaker 1: and trying to actually ask you if there is something
Speaker 1: that they can do to help. Really good tip for
Speaker 1: this is instead of using why questions like why aren't
Speaker 1: you hitting deadlines?
Speaker 3: Use what and how questions.
Speaker 1: So say to them like, what is making it hard
Speaker 1: for you to hit these deadlines? Or how is it
Speaker 1: that I can help you? If you use why, like
Speaker 1: why aren't you doing this, it can sound quite accusatory
Speaker 1: and it can kind of make the vible so interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always love that little tip.
Speaker 2: It's like such a simple word switch.
Speaker 1: I know. I think it's because from when we're young,
Speaker 1: you're like getting in trouble and your parents are.
Speaker 3: Like, why did you do this?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some like hardcore psychology behind it, but
Speaker 1: always try and resolve it with your coworker first. But
Speaker 1: there are actually situations where people just won't fix it
Speaker 1: and it's actually making the project result bad, or it's
Speaker 1: like it's actually bad for the work, or it like
Speaker 1: can damage your reputation. So one other thing that you
Speaker 1: can do is before you sort of, you know, escalate
Speaker 1: and make someone look bad, you can ask your manager
Speaker 1: for advice, so you can sort of just give them
Speaker 1: the heads up like this is the situation. Instead of saying,
Speaker 1: Alex keeps missing the deadlines and it's messing the project up,
Speaker 1: you might want to say, we've had some timeline issues.
Speaker 1: I've tried X y Z with Alex, but we're still struggling.
Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for other things I could try, so,
Speaker 1: you know, notifying your manager that there maybe are some issues.
Speaker 1: You're doing what you can, but you know you're keeping
Speaker 1: it professional not personal.
Speaker 3: That's what I would do.
Speaker 2: Ah, that's such good advice. Write that down everyone.
Speaker 1: I think in general, like it's not throwing someone under
Speaker 1: the bus. If you are trying to save sort of
Speaker 1: the project or the work outcome, and you're like, you've
Speaker 1: done what you can to help this person. But it's
Speaker 1: also just keep in mind the thing I said at
Speaker 1: the start, which is those moments when your coworkers save you,
Speaker 1: like you've got a friend for life.
Speaker 2: And then like, also you could probably be that for them,
Speaker 2: like you can save them and they'll think about it
Speaker 2: and then it probably might adjust their behavior.
Speaker 3: That's actually so true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, So the next question has come in
Speaker 2: through a voice message on our Instagram page biz by
Speaker 2: Mama Mia. Please follow us if you don't already. We
Speaker 2: post so much on there. And this is what they said.
Speaker 1: Okay, I need help.
Speaker 2: My manager is super vague and unclear, kind of random.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they give me tasks and then when I do
Speaker 2: them and show them, they say it's not what they wanted.
Speaker 3: It's killing me. I'm certain it's not me hearing them wrong.
Speaker 1: And have you seen that Elon Musk meme where it's
Speaker 1: like it's a photo of Elamsk and he's obviously just
Speaker 1: announced another project or something random, and then Baron Trump
Speaker 1: is standing next to him. Oh yeah, he's just looking
Speaker 1: really scared and solemn, and the one that I saw
Speaker 1: it was like above elamusk management, don't worry, We'll get
Speaker 1: it done somehow. And then this solemn baron is like
Speaker 1: me knowing I'm somehow. That's how it feels sometimes if
Speaker 1: you've got a super random manager who's like, let's do
Speaker 1: this and this and this, and you're like.
Speaker 3: I'm the person who's supposed to be getting this done.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my god, I'm getting like a little bit
Speaker 2: triggered from this.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's really hard. There definitely has been times
Speaker 2: where I've had not necessarily a manager, but just someone
Speaker 2: who's higher than me say they want to get this done,
Speaker 2: this done, this done, And like I'm in a meeting
Speaker 2: with fifty people and we all know that I'm meant
Speaker 2: to be the person to be getting this done.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's why I think I have an aversion, which
Speaker 2: I have said before, to brainstorm meetings, Like I actually
Speaker 2: hate brainstorm meetings because I'm a doer and everyone knows
Speaker 2: I'm a doer and they all expect me because that's
Speaker 2: just been who I am since I've started working. I
Speaker 2: am always a person, even though I'm such a creative person.
Speaker 2: I'm always a person that you do the brainstorm, just
Speaker 2: tell me what I need to do. But then when
Speaker 2: I'm in that brainstorm, I just start sweating because these
Speaker 2: ideas get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then they
Speaker 2: leave and they go out for lunch and never come back,
Speaker 2: and then I'm stuck having to do everything they brainstorm.
Speaker 1: My manager gave me some advice about this exact thing once,
Speaker 1: and he said, sometimes so you just have to let
Speaker 1: balls drop. So I think someone like you probably who's
Speaker 1: used to picking up all these loose ends and like
Speaker 1: getting it done, and that's your reputation. That's awesome, right,
Speaker 1: and like don't stop doing that. But sometimes you can't
Speaker 1: be the person who's always doing that, and sometimes you
Speaker 1: just have to let things go. And if someone's gonna
Speaker 1: come and chase you, or like something doesn't get done,
Speaker 1: or hey, that's actually someone else's job anyway. Always been
Speaker 1: the person who's like taking the action items and taking
Speaker 1: things on. Sometimes you just have to push back a
Speaker 1: little bit as well. But back to the manager, like
Speaker 1: giving your tasks, and when you show them the tasks,
Speaker 1: like they say, it's not what you want, and they're
Speaker 1: just like giving you a bunch of stuff. This like
Speaker 1: never really goes away. It'll happened to you all throughout
Speaker 1: your career. And it's a skill that if you can learn,
Speaker 1: like master this skill now, it will help you so
Speaker 1: much in your career. So it's such a it's such
Speaker 1: a sick skill to be able to manage managers like this.
Speaker 1: And I will just say one thing, which is, as
Speaker 1: a manager, it's quite.
Speaker 3: Easy to do this.
Speaker 1: It's quite easy to kind of get excited about things
Speaker 1: or not really know all of the tasks that you're
Speaker 1: handing over to someone, and just to keep piling things
Speaker 1: on them and to sometimes be unclear, Like I tried
Speaker 1: so hard, you know, as a manager to be awesome,
Speaker 1: Like I spent you know, eighty percent of my mental
Speaker 1: space trying to be an awesome manager. And I know
Speaker 1: that I still did this to my report sometimes. So
Speaker 1: here's what you can do. Try and remember this acronym
Speaker 1: per per. The first one is point. So ask your
Speaker 1: manager like, what is the point of this?
Speaker 3: What is the purpose?
Speaker 1: So something I would always like to do is sort
Speaker 1: of say to them, you know, I really like knowing
Speaker 1: how things fit into the bigger picture. Can you kind
Speaker 1: of explain to me what bigger priority this ladder is
Speaker 1: up to or what problem this is going to help solve.
Speaker 1: So first like point and then the next one is
Speaker 1: end product, so ask them like, do you have something
Speaker 1: in mind for what you think the end product actually.
Speaker 3: Looks like for this? So that's all about like have
Speaker 3: they actually thought it through?
Speaker 1: It is so easy as a manager to not actually
Speaker 1: think something through and just be like this sounds like
Speaker 1: a good idea in my head and then task someone
Speaker 1: with it. That awesome person takes it really seriously and
Speaker 1: they're like, I'm going to try and do this, but
Speaker 1: it can be completely impossible. So to kind of get
Speaker 1: them to think through well, actually like is this a
Speaker 1: document that I wanted to do? Is it like a
Speaker 1: whole project? I think that one can really help end product.
Speaker 1: And then the last one is replay, So replay what
Speaker 1: you think that you have interpreted from what they said
Speaker 1: back to them so that they can actually correct it
Speaker 1: if it's not.
Speaker 3: What they said.
Speaker 1: So you might say something like, you know, to confirm,
Speaker 1: you'd like me to do X and have it ready
Speaker 1: by why does that sound right?
Speaker 3: Gives them an opportunity to correct if they haven't actually
Speaker 3: thought about it.
Speaker 2: That's actually such good advice because I feel like early
Speaker 2: in my career when I just wanted to impress people,
Speaker 2: I was just told that just say yes to everything,
Speaker 2: so they'd be like these massive projects and stuff that
Speaker 2: I just say yes too and then completely butcher them
Speaker 2: because I actually didn't know what I was meant to
Speaker 2: be doing.
Speaker 3: It's so true, do you know as well?
Speaker 1: It's like, if you can just ask a few questions
Speaker 1: in the moment, it can save you so much time. Also,
Speaker 1: I think the hardest thing to learn in your career
Speaker 1: is you're not meant to do everything that your manager
Speaker 1: tells you to do. But sometimes if you kind of
Speaker 1: just let things slide and don't bring them up again,
Speaker 1: they'll be like, what about that thing I told you
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 3: So you sort of do need to remember everything they
Speaker 3: told you to do.
Speaker 1: The line is like always changing, and it's very blurry,
Speaker 1: and it's very hard to figure out, like what things
Speaker 1: am I meant to remember and do and then what
Speaker 1: things were they actually like not that serious about anyway.
Speaker 1: One thing that I do like is if you kind
Speaker 1: of think they just like had this idea.
Speaker 3: In the moment and they weren't really that serious about it.
Speaker 1: Anyway, the next week that you have that meeting with him,
Speaker 1: you can kind of just say, you know, last week
Speaker 1: we aligned on a do you still want me to
Speaker 1: move forward with that or is this now a bigger priority?
Speaker 1: Because sometimes other things will come up and they'll be like, actually,
Speaker 1: that wasn't really that important anyway.
Speaker 2: Right, okay, And I think it will make them realize that, like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I probably should have told her that.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of this, by the way, a lot
Speaker 1: of the owners on this is in managers. I think
Speaker 1: it is your manager's responsibility to be delegating tasks clearly
Speaker 1: to you, definitely giving you the end goal. They don't
Speaker 1: always need to tell you the how to get there,
Speaker 1: but they always need to be giving you clarity around
Speaker 1: the end goal. And I think a lot of this
Speaker 1: actually comes from people not being trained in terms of
Speaker 1: how to delegate and manage properly.
Speaker 2: So good, okay, So well, after the break, we are
Speaker 2: going to be getting into a question about workplace desk politics.
Speaker 2: It's a juicy.
Speaker 3: One, okay.
Speaker 1: And this episode's been pretty serious and working. I think
Speaker 1: we need to lighten it up and have a little
Speaker 1: bit of fun. This question comes in and it like, honestly,
Speaker 1: I was getting so triggered reading it. The question is
Speaker 1: my coworkers give me side eyes when I do zoom
Speaker 1: meetings at my desk with my headphones on. But where
Speaker 1: else am I supposed to do them? Is it okay
Speaker 1: to do calls at my desk?
Speaker 3: M What do you think for me personally?
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, calls is not the biggest issue that
Speaker 2: I have with my desk mates. Okay, So I want
Speaker 2: to kind of expand this.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want a whole list of your issues that
Speaker 1: you have with your desk, Maes.
Speaker 2: I've been working at a desk for around six years now,
Speaker 2: so I've experienced a lot. I think we can broaden
Speaker 2: this out to I guess what's appropriate to do at
Speaker 2: your desk and what isn't. And I have done a
Speaker 2: very controversial list of workplace etiquettes I will link in
Speaker 2: the show notes because I feel like people would.
Speaker 3: Love to fight about that.
Speaker 2: But for me, I think there's so many other things,
Speaker 2: like shoes off. Like I've had people who've had their
Speaker 2: shoes off at their desks who are like either sitting
Speaker 2: opposite me or next to me.
Speaker 3: What offends you about that?
Speaker 2: It's just we're in a workplace, Like I don't need
Speaker 2: to see your dogs in like my time, Like I'm
Speaker 2: not getting paid to watch that.
Speaker 3: It's too much.
Speaker 2: I think. Also, talking and laughing really loudly at your desk.
Speaker 2: I'm not like a fun police. I am a really
Speaker 2: fun person. I enjoy a laugh and a giggle and
Speaker 2: a talk. But I think it's the constant laughing and
Speaker 2: talking and then not inviting me into that, Like when
Speaker 2: I see like two desk mates like having a big
Speaker 2: chat and I'm like, oh, at least include me. But
Speaker 2: I understand the whole meeting at the desk if it's
Speaker 2: really loud. I mean, there are workplaces like our office
Speaker 2: right now. The meeting rooms do get booked quite a lot,
Speaker 2: so there's no other place to have a meeting, but
Speaker 2: at your desk. I would just be careful of what
Speaker 2: kind of meeting it is. Like if you're having a
Speaker 2: meeting and you're it's like a really private meeting. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I can't be.
Speaker 3: Heard in another peace in office.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so hard, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I want to hear some more on your list, and
Speaker 1: then maybe I can add to it as well, because
Speaker 1: I have a lot of issues with desk behavior as well,
Speaker 1: but this is kind of the problem. Like I remember,
Speaker 1: I actually got in trouble for this exact thing. So
Speaker 1: it was when sort of video calls first became a thing,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, five, six, seven years ago, and
Speaker 1: I was taking them all at my desk and my
Speaker 1: manager actually had to pull me aside and say, just
Speaker 1: want you to know some people have said that your
Speaker 1: voice is really loud when you're taking these calls, and
Speaker 1: we need to figure out something else.
Speaker 3: So I actually got like, this was me.
Speaker 1: If they're not a bunch of places where you actually
Speaker 1: can take these calls, then literally where else are you
Speaker 1: supposed to take them? So yeah, you sort of do
Speaker 1: have to take them at your desk.
Speaker 3: Sometimes.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the phone call walking meeting,
Speaker 1: so if it's someone that you can do it as
Speaker 1: a phone call with, but often you're like looking at
Speaker 1: docs and typing, so it's not it's not going to work.
Speaker 1: But can I add some more things to your lists
Speaker 1: that annoy me that people do?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Please, This is kind of the opposite of making noise,
Speaker 1: but this annoys me. If you are having a conversation
Speaker 1: with someone and you like talking about probably like a
Speaker 1: work thing, and someone else who is not anything to
Speaker 1: do with the project or the conversation just sits there
Speaker 1: staring at you guys and like maybe it's because we're
Speaker 1: talking too loudly in retrospect, but say you're not talking
Speaker 1: too loudly. Sometimes they would just sit there and stare
Speaker 1: and like listen in I'm like, why are you listening
Speaker 1: to this? And then the other one that sometimes annoys
Speaker 1: me kind of the opposite of what you said, which
Speaker 1: is if everyone's having he so fun and like having
Speaker 1: a laugh and there's someone that's just sitting there the
Speaker 1: whole time with their headphones on. They never talk, they
Speaker 1: never interact for like long periods of time. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you are bringing the vibe down, and that is annoying.
Speaker 2: That's actually so true.
Speaker 1: Every hour or so, just take your headphones off and
Speaker 1: give us a little something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about people who like if you have your
Speaker 2: headphones on? Because I guess I'm like in the editorial section,
Speaker 2: we're all riders. So sometimes we'll be in the zone
Speaker 2: of like writing a piece and then someone will just
Speaker 2: like tap you on the shoulder and just be like
Speaker 2: take him off, take them off. And you take them
Speaker 2: off and they'll be like, how's your day? I'm like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean?
Speaker 3: How is my day?
Speaker 1: There? So I guess it's like, don't do it to us,
Speaker 1: don't wear your head phones, but then don't interrupt us.
Speaker 3: If we're wearing our headphones, that's bad. We're bad. That's bad.
Speaker 1: So yeah, back to the question. Then, what do you reckon?
Speaker 1: Can you take zoom calls at your desk?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I go, yes, but try and keep your voice
Speaker 3: a little bit low.
Speaker 2: Learn from my mistakes, and then also tell your co
Speaker 2: workers that they're getting some juicy details from your meetings.
Speaker 3: It's a win win.
Speaker 1: Make the call really interesting, just like drop some little
Speaker 1: like in jokes in personal exactly. Okay, thank you for
Speaker 1: helping us clear the b's inbox today. If you've got
Speaker 1: a work question, send it our way. As you know,
Speaker 1: we won't include your name. If you don't want us to.
Speaker 1: You'll find a link to submit those questions in the
Speaker 1: show notes, or drop me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 3: I love hearing from you guys.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm going to drop you a damn
Speaker 2: cause I keep me enough. And if you missed it
Speaker 2: earlier this week, Mission so did a really big episode
Speaker 2: on time blocking and how it can actually give you
Speaker 2: your hours back. Head back into the feed to check
Speaker 2: it out. We'll also put a link in our show
Speaker 2: notes and we'll be back here in the inbox next week.
Speaker 3: Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on