Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
Speaker 1: on today.
Speaker 2: They were like, oh, you have to lie on top
Speaker 2: of Kelly for five minutes, and then I just hear
Speaker 2: the mom from another room going, you guys are too
Speaker 2: young for this.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, the Wildly, Wildly,
Speaker 3: wildly Unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and
Speaker 3: everything in between.
Speaker 2: I'm Kelly McCarran and.
Speaker 1: I'm Key Resels. And in case you missed it, last week,
Speaker 1: we chatted to a lovely shitter, Jossy, who shared her
Speaker 1: story and decision after five organizing years of IVF, to
Speaker 1: put her mental and physical health first and called it quits.
Speaker 2: We've had such an incredible response to Jossy's episode. She's
Speaker 2: just so generous sharing her story and like just all
Speaker 2: of her insights, and she's just got a really great,
Speaker 2: unique way of looking at things and I very much
Speaker 2: so appreciated it. And she spoke to us on her birthday.
Speaker 2: I know, what a coin. But today we are exploring
Speaker 2: a question that has been popping up left, right and center.
Speaker 2: Should I let my child go on a sleepover. It's
Speaker 2: proving quite a divisive subject. We chat about the pros
Speaker 2: and cons and about what our shitters think about it
Speaker 2: and some things that we might not have even considered.
Speaker 2: But first key, you're up for peak and pitch.
Speaker 1: So the pit actually happened last night. So I was
Speaker 1: actually doing peek and pit on my socials while Rue
Speaker 1: and Charlie were in the kitchen cooking at dinner. So
Speaker 1: Rue sits on the sorry, this is your pit, and
Speaker 1: I'm going no, but seriously, we lovedy. So Rue's always like,
Speaker 1: can I sit?
Speaker 2: Can I sit?
Speaker 1: And we put her up on the bench and it's
Speaker 1: like Charlie was cooking, so I guess he had his
Speaker 1: back towards her, and then she went a bit silent,
Speaker 1: and then I hear Charlie go, are you okay? And
Speaker 1: I didn't hear her say anything, and I'm like, is
Speaker 1: she okay? And then I don't know what happened, but
Speaker 1: it was like she made some kind of noise that
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, I need to get up
Speaker 1: and assess, like, see what's happening here? So I went
Speaker 1: in and she kind of started gagging, like what happened?
Speaker 1: And so we have a little like dryer next to
Speaker 1: the sink where we put her baby stuff, so like
Speaker 1: her drink bottles, and in this case, what was sitting
Speaker 1: there was like the applicator for medicine, so like the
Speaker 1: thing that you give like paracetamol or ibuprofen, the liquid stuff,
Speaker 1: so like one of the little syringes. Yeah, was just
Speaker 1: there drying out on the rack. And she had picked
Speaker 1: it up and she had shoved it down her throat,
Speaker 1: but it was backwards, so the end of it is
Speaker 1: kind of flat, like a ten cent piece almost, And
Speaker 1: Charlie said it looked like what she'd done is shoved
Speaker 1: it down her throat and then it got stuck. And
Speaker 1: then he was trying to stay calm and just be like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2: And then while she's got it poking out of her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she looks terrified. So she pulls it straight
Speaker 1: out and she's in shock. And then that's when she
Speaker 1: starts gagging, and I realize, like, oh, okay, she might
Speaker 1: actually vomit here.
Speaker 2: Which is generally their response when something like that's happened.
Speaker 2: So she's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Charlie's holding her. I've leant underneath them to go grab
Speaker 1: a bowl, like, because we've got these big mixing bowls
Speaker 1: that we also use as vomit bowles. We washed them,
Speaker 1: but they're big bowls that are like really light, so
Speaker 1: you can grab them quickly can chuck them to each other. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I wasn't quick enough. The words could not come out
Speaker 1: of my mouth before she started vomiting.
Speaker 2: And I mur.
Speaker 1: Underneath her. I stand up and move back because I've
Speaker 1: kind of realized what's happening. And she vomits like on
Speaker 1: my sleeves of my hands, but then a little bit
Speaker 1: gone to my mouth, didn't it. But I couldn't do
Speaker 1: anything in that moment. I just kind of like I
Speaker 1: had to.
Speaker 2: Just take it, not immediately project our vomit back over
Speaker 2: because this is a really stressful situation.
Speaker 1: I've got my mum had on because what's happened is
Speaker 1: I'm like grab a bowl and he's moved her towards
Speaker 1: the sink, and it's just comical at this point anyway,
Speaker 1: So we're trying to recover from that.
Speaker 2: It's very She's crying, she's because of the choke and
Speaker 2: because of the vomit. And then we sit down crying
Speaker 2: because you covered in her vomit.
Speaker 1: Anyway, fast forward to later in the night, she's gone
Speaker 1: down for bed. Everything's okay, we've recovered, and we're like
Speaker 1: watching something and I said, hey, can you pause it?
Speaker 1: And he's like yeah, and I'm like, I didn't tell you.
Speaker 1: But when she vomited, it got in my mouth.
Speaker 2: And he was like, you want to kiss.
Speaker 1: He's like, that is so foul, and I'm like, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, but I didn't want to make a big
Speaker 1: dealer at the time. It's like nah, because then that
Speaker 1: upsets them more and like it's foul, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of vomit, but it's all right. So that was
Speaker 1: my pit. It was like just the shock of it happening,
Speaker 1: and like, you know how you're just really risk averse
Speaker 1: with having a kid, like I can anticipate when things
Speaker 1: are going to happen.
Speaker 2: Syringe was not on my Bengo. He didn't have marbles
Speaker 2: sitting next to her thinking go for gold sicks.
Speaker 1: No, but she does love shoving stuff in her mouth.
Speaker 1: She does it all the time with like the lids
Speaker 1: of the yogurt and stuff. Oh that's so so we
Speaker 1: pinched her nose and then she'll spit it out because
Speaker 1: she's like needs to breathe.
Speaker 2: That is so smart.
Speaker 1: Someone told me that I can't take credit for it.
Speaker 1: But someone's like just pinch their nose because they have
Speaker 1: to breathe, so they'll push it out with their tongue
Speaker 1: so that they can take a breath.
Speaker 2: Touchwood Lenni's never put something in his mouth, and he hasn't
Speaker 2: needed to rudious leap on a dummy. He's like, listen,
Speaker 2: he still loves to shove a dummy into his mouth,
Speaker 2: doesn't he?
Speaker 1: See he does little dummy all right, So let's finish
Speaker 1: on the puok.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's much better.
Speaker 1: So friends of ours invited us to go to Disney
Speaker 1: on Ice.
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm assuming you mean you took rue So we
Speaker 2: took her? Oh you're like, no, My peak was that
Speaker 2: I went by myself to Disney on Ice.
Speaker 1: No, we took all the kids. So it was really cute.
Speaker 1: We got there, We came and we sat down. The
Speaker 1: first half she sat there just like eyes big, very
Speaker 1: kind of confused about what's going on. She's just like
Speaker 1: staring and I could like wave my hand in front
Speaker 1: of her, and she was just transfixed on like what
Speaker 1: was happening. And so I was like it was hard
Speaker 1: to tell if she was enjoying is this real low
Speaker 1: stimulation going on? And I'm like, maybe you need a
Speaker 1: snack cause I like gave her a snuck. So she's
Speaker 1: just like staring down at the ice and Garlie's like,
Speaker 1: is she okay. I'm like, I'm not doing I reckon
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. So then intermition came and
Speaker 1: then for the second half it was like whoa, she
Speaker 1: had settled in. She was like, all right, I know
Speaker 1: what's happening now. She's like clapping arms in the air.
Speaker 1: She loved it.
Speaker 2: It's so cute.
Speaker 1: Loved it, and it was just such a cute thing
Speaker 1: to do on the weekend because we kind of thought
Speaker 1: that when we got the invite, were it's going to
Speaker 1: be good, like like of course all bigger, but we
Speaker 1: didn't know whether or not it would be age appropriate,
Speaker 1: and we don't she doesn't watch any Disney movies, so
Speaker 1: she doesn't know any of the songs. But we just
Speaker 1: thought would give it go, and we thought, all, what
Speaker 1: else we're gonna do. We usually just go to the markets, like,
Speaker 1: may as well change it up, and it was just
Speaker 1: so fun to do something different as a family that
Speaker 1: was like really wholesome, but also was super nostalgic for us, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: when Aladdin came on, we were popping out what was
Speaker 1: the song for in Sallyalia bu? So do you know
Speaker 1: what we did when we got home watching the Aladden
Speaker 1: It's a great film, it's a great good It was
Speaker 1: just like really wholesome. It just made us feel And
Speaker 1: then we also were like, we need to have like
Speaker 1: family movie fun stays on the way to teach her
Speaker 1: Disney film so the classics. She can't sit through more
Speaker 1: than twenty minutes, so.
Speaker 2: I had twenty minutes is actually impressive.
Speaker 1: We got through twenty minutes on Saturday, twenty minutes on Sunday.
Speaker 1: And then I was just watching Aladdin in my spare
Speaker 1: time by myself, doing a shot the movie because I'm like,
Speaker 1: what happens? Japa has just found it Genie's bottle.
Speaker 2: And it was Robin Williams, wasn't it?
Speaker 4: They did there?
Speaker 1: It was also happen to be like what would have
Speaker 1: been his seventy third birthday over the world. So it's
Speaker 1: like quite a thing and it's just wonderful. There's something
Speaker 1: about like old animation that is just so nostalgia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you have a big appreciation for Also all the
Speaker 1: jokes that like I can recite but had no idea
Speaker 1: what it meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like some of them had innuan don Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we were both buzzing after.
Speaker 2: That's so cute.
Speaker 1: She fucking went out like a log, you know, with
Speaker 1: a lot of simulations. So she was like, oh, it
Speaker 1: was really good. So highly recommend if it's coming to
Speaker 1: your town sitting near you, buy the ticket. We've got
Speaker 1: some merch. Got at her a little Mowana T shirt
Speaker 1: which is really cute. I'm not that So next up,
Speaker 1: can I unpacking a topic that keeps popping up on
Speaker 1: our radar ya, the news, amongst friends or on socials.
Speaker 1: It's sleepovers. So you might trust your friends or your
Speaker 1: family with your kids, but you never really know who
Speaker 1: else is going to be in someone else's home. There's
Speaker 1: also the issue of bullying and being exposed to things
Speaker 1: you might otherwise have kept from them. Typically seen as
Speaker 1: a rite of passage, sleepovers are so ingrained in our
Speaker 1: culture that the mere mention of it on our socials
Speaker 1: but an instant debate. So what are the benefits?
Speaker 2: What are the risks?
Speaker 1: Do they outweigh every other factor and do they still
Speaker 1: have a place and the childhood of kids today.
Speaker 2: We are speaking from the perspective of being todd the
Speaker 2: mums not yet having to make that decision in real life.
Speaker 2: But we just thought it would be really interesting.
Speaker 1: It's definitely having a bit of a moment culturally, especially
Speaker 1: in the realm of parenting. So first up, we threw
Speaker 1: it out to you. Shit is because we really wanted
Speaker 1: to get a sense of where you guys were at
Speaker 1: with the topic of sleepovers. Will you want you and why?
Speaker 1: So we asked you are you going to let your
Speaker 1: kid or kids go to sleepovers? And the responses were
Speaker 1: very close. So the yes's were at fifth fifty six
Speaker 1: point three percent and the no's were at forty five
Speaker 1: point eight percent. You were surprised by this.
Speaker 2: I thought that was wild because if I asked people
Speaker 2: just in my immediate circle that I know, it would
Speaker 2: be like, I reckon ninety five percent. Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, right, because I had a feeling it
Speaker 1: would be close because of a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: are saying no. But I also think that there is
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure to have your kids go to sleepovers.
Speaker 2: No, it's very easy for us to say no when
Speaker 2: we don't have teenagers going at the back, ma'am.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But also even just like when I was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of research for this, a lot of people
Speaker 1: were saying, like external pressures like family members also just
Speaker 1: like your significant other, the other parent in the relationship.
Speaker 1: And I put the question to Charlie last night in
Speaker 1: preparation for this, and he was like, oh, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna we'll let her go. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is gonna have to be something that we talk
Speaker 1: about because I'm not your same opinion.
Speaker 2: Happy to let anyone look after her.
Speaker 1: Well, not anyone. We have like one babysitter that we
Speaker 1: use who is her educator from her first.
Speaker 2: Day, so she's got like the credentials in the background
Speaker 2: checks and everything exactly.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't feel like I want to
Speaker 1: try out a new babysitter, Like I don't want to
Speaker 1: just get one. Luckily, we were like, oh my niece,
Speaker 1: Like she's so good and she's got like younger siblings,
Speaker 1: like little little siblings. She's spending heaps of babysitting over
Speaker 1: the holidays and she's so good with kids, and were
Speaker 1: already knows her and she came, she put her to
Speaker 1: bed and she was so chilled and like she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she was really easy to put down. I'm like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's so good. So now like I'm
Speaker 1: fine with our niece doing it. I just want to
Speaker 1: have to throw that on her. But she's at the
Speaker 1: age of when she wants to make money. So I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: we have a line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing, And it's also nice ruin and.
Speaker 1: She loves her lovely. Anyway, we got a little bit
Speaker 1: started tract there. So when we said, for those people
Speaker 1: who answered no, because we get white people answer yes,
Speaker 1: it's a ride of passage of people believe that it's
Speaker 1: part of childhood. Why not, like we don't need to
Speaker 1: like coddle our kids. But I think it was more
Speaker 1: interesting finding out other people said no.
Speaker 2: Most of the responses were exactly as we sort of
Speaker 2: predicted the risk of childhood sexual assault, people that had
Speaker 2: known people or themselves had been sexually assaulted as a child,
Speaker 2: and then things like what movies are they watching? Is
Speaker 2: there any bullying? Social media? Like all of these things
Speaker 2: if you can't control them or know what's happening under
Speaker 2: your own roof. I guess just those sorts of concerns.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what I thought was interesting is like one
Speaker 1: of our shitters did answer yes, but she wanted to
Speaker 1: answer this question specifically because she said her step sons
Speaker 1: are allowed to go to sleepovers and without fail, every
Speaker 1: time they come home, they tell me so many stories
Speaker 1: that boil down to a lack of appropriate parental supervision
Speaker 1: in her opinion, So I think it's I like to
Speaker 1: go there, but she would still let her kids go,
Speaker 1: but she has said that it would be limited to
Speaker 1: a few trusted family members. So I think there are
Speaker 1: varying degrees of also the definition of a sleepover, Like
Speaker 1: I think it's different to would you let your kids
Speaker 1: stay at their cousin's house? Some people would feel okay
Speaker 1: with that, maybe some people would. I guess it's like
Speaker 1: do you like your brother or sister in law or
Speaker 1: what kind of parents are they?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: Do they have rules?
Speaker 1: Do they not have rules?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 1: There are lots of things that contribute to this, and
Speaker 1: I know we're kind of talking about it in a
Speaker 1: broad way, but I thought like that was really interesting.
Speaker 1: A lot of people sharing that they've listened too many
Speaker 1: podcasts and heard too many horror stories, so I think,
Speaker 1: just like the awareness exactly, it does change things a
Speaker 1: little bit. The other question I was really interested to
Speaker 1: hear from us it is, was had there been any
Speaker 1: fallout with friends or family due to the decision to
Speaker 1: not let your kids have a sleepover. A lot of
Speaker 1: people saying that their parents didn't understand it, that they
Speaker 1: thought it was silly, but begrudgingly it's fine that you
Speaker 1: don't let your kids go to sleepovers. But for the
Speaker 1: most part, people were pretty understanding. They didn't agree, but
Speaker 1: they were understanding, which I think is a nice thing.
Speaker 2: One thing that I think I've really struggled with since
Speaker 2: becoming a parent is that and I can admit this now,
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't have, you know, a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: but I used to be not judgmental. Actually yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess really judgmental about these sorts of situations because I
Speaker 2: used to just think, how can you not know, ah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that that is happening under your roof, or that that
Speaker 2: person's a pedo. But since becoming a parent, and I
Speaker 2: guess thinking about it more and hearing these stories they
Speaker 2: didn't know. I was listening to a podcast where this
Speaker 2: girl was raped consistently by her grandfather from ages twelve
Speaker 2: to fifteen. Her mum had the most beautiful relationship with
Speaker 2: her father, like telling her broke the entire family because
Speaker 2: there was no possible way that anyone ever suspected he
Speaker 2: was a nice old man. Yeah, And I think that
Speaker 2: that's why for me, one of the reasons why I'm like,
Speaker 2: I think I just have to have the blanket rule
Speaker 2: because you actually don't know anyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is it. You don't know, And I just
Speaker 1: don't think you ever want to live with any regret
Speaker 1: when it comes to kind of like the mental and
Speaker 1: physical well being of your kid at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, Like you want to make sure that you
Speaker 1: are protecting them as much as possible. And it is
Speaker 1: sad because obviously when you think about your childhood compared
Speaker 1: to theirs, because we have a lot more awareness about
Speaker 1: just how horrible people can be, the bad things that
Speaker 1: kids get up to by themselves, the bullying that can
Speaker 1: happen in these situations. Everything's not as like clean cut
Speaker 1: as like oh, yeah, go go to your friends sleepover,
Speaker 1: all good here, don't worry about that. It's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things to consider. Okay, well, let's
Speaker 1: start with the benefits of a sleepover, just so we
Speaker 1: keep it balanced and interview a licensed clinical psychologist, doctor
Speaker 1: Levers Landis, talks about sleepovers helping children to develop independence
Speaker 1: and to learn to adapt to situations outside of their routine.
Speaker 1: They also get to practice navigating social situations away from school.
Speaker 1: So she says learning flexibility is healthy for us humans.
Speaker 1: It's good to be exposed to different ways of doing things,
Speaker 1: different foods, different ways of having a meal, and the
Speaker 1: different ways of interacting. It's healthy to not always do
Speaker 1: things exactly the same way. And a lot of other
Speaker 1: experts that I read were saying that in some cases,
Speaker 1: not having exposure to flexible learning and opportunities to practice
Speaker 1: independence can result in kids developing like separation anxiety, fears,
Speaker 1: even phobias when they kind of leave their safe space
Speaker 1: of home and they're entering new spaces. So that's interesting
Speaker 1: and in consideration, so I think you want to kind
Speaker 1: of land maybe somewhere in the middle of that. So
Speaker 1: the negatives of it, though are sexual assault, well that
Speaker 1: is the obvious one. So there's also slip distruction. So
Speaker 1: think about winning away on holiday. You never sleep well,
Speaker 1: the kids are staying up late. They yap and yap
Speaker 1: and up, and you pick up your kid in the
Speaker 1: morning and they are overtired, over stimulated, grumpy things, and
Speaker 1: they might take a day or two to settle down.
Speaker 1: Exposure to things that might not be age appropriate, so movies, music,
Speaker 1: I don't know, websites, things like that. Bullying came up
Speaker 1: a lot, so a lot of peer pressure in these
Speaker 1: situations to do certain things like and that could be anything,
Speaker 1: it could be it's been the bottle. It's been the
Speaker 1: bottle exactly, something that is relatively like not that bad.
Speaker 1: But also you don't want to push someone into having
Speaker 1: a kiss, so they don't want to. Yeah, and of
Speaker 1: course the big one, which is abuse that something might
Speaker 1: happen to your kid, either mentally, physically or sexually. So Kel,
Speaker 1: when I first broached this with you, like I know
Speaker 1: your feelings now, but when I first broached this with
Speaker 1: you, you remember you gualked a little bit at me, being
Speaker 1: like about the idea of no for sleepovers. And I'm
Speaker 1: talking about last year when I first talked to you
Speaker 1: about this, and then two days later that's story came out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one that I had some feelings about I
Speaker 2: just thought that maybe he wanted a nice night of sleep.
Speaker 1: But do you know what's funny is that that was
Speaker 1: actually his argument in court. See, so let me just
Speaker 1: share what we're talking about with our shit is. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of you would have heard this because
Speaker 1: it went viral everywhere. So in August twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: a fifty year old man was accused of drugging three
Speaker 1: of his daughter's twelve year old friends during a sleepover.
Speaker 4: Fifty seven year old Michael Meadan turned himself in this
Speaker 4: week after being accused of leasing mango smoothies with a
Speaker 4: drug that's usually used to treat insomnia and panic attacks,
Speaker 4: and then giving those drinks to three twelve year old
Speaker 4: girls at his daughter's sleepover.
Speaker 1: So, they had had a spa day that when it
Speaker 1: got when nails done, and the dad was like taking
Speaker 1: them everywhere. They came back, they watched movies. I went
Speaker 1: in the hot tub, they had shower, and then I
Speaker 1: went downstairs and started watching movies in the basement. And
Speaker 1: the father came down about eleven and insisted that the
Speaker 1: girls go to bed and they drink these smoothies that
Speaker 1: he prepared. And the girls have since shed in an
Speaker 1: affidavit to police that the drinks had white chunk in
Speaker 1: them and a white powder on top. One of the
Speaker 1: girls reported that she even told the friend's dad that
Speaker 1: HER's tasted funny. That girl, thankfully didn't finish her smoothie.
Speaker 1: Her friends passed out around her, and then the father
Speaker 1: allegedly kept coming down and checking on the girls multiple
Speaker 1: times while the girl who was conscious, pretended to be asleep,
Speaker 1: and she alleges that he did things like wafer's hand
Speaker 1: in front of the sleeping girl's faces and put his
Speaker 1: fingers under their nose to check if they were breathing.
Speaker 1: So she messaged your mother asking her to pick her up,
Speaker 1: saying like say it's a family emergency. This was around
Speaker 1: one am. Her mother didn't wake up, at which time
Speaker 1: she then proceeded to message her other friends to see
Speaker 1: if any of them could wake up one of their
Speaker 1: parents to come and get her. And that's what happened.
Speaker 1: So for family.
Speaker 2: I love that this girl, though, has the courage to
Speaker 2: do that, because when I was twelve, I would have
Speaker 2: been like, I'm just going to go to sleep and
Speaker 2: hope that it's fine.
Speaker 1: I know, I know. And also an argument there for
Speaker 1: giving devices to twelve year old. So I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 1: there's so many things. I've been challenged on a lot
Speaker 1: of things here. So that friend's mum picked her up. Weirdly,
Speaker 1: the guy let her leave. I mean, what was he
Speaker 1: going to do, but he let.
Speaker 2: Her leave weirdly. He can't hold her there.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm getting down to my story. The mum of
Speaker 1: her friend took her home, woke up her parents, who
Speaker 1: then alerted the parents of the other girls who were
Speaker 1: still there, and they went up and picked up the
Speaker 1: other girls. But the dad did try to intervene when
Speaker 1: those parents came back, saying that oh, no, no, they're asleep,
Speaker 1: you know, come back tomorrow, and they were like, no, no,
Speaker 1: we want our children right now. They took the kids
Speaker 1: to the hospital, where it was confirmed that they had
Speaker 1: traces of benzo diazepine in their system, which is typically
Speaker 1: used to treat in stomia and anxiety.
Speaker 2: So it's terrifying he told me this story. I didn't
Speaker 2: know all of those details. To be fair, though, you
Speaker 2: just told me like frontline and I go, oh, I
Speaker 2: think I'd clearly had a bad night sleep the night before,
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, you know, what teenage girls like,
Speaker 2: they would have been up or not giggling. He probably
Speaker 2: just wanted a good night sleep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I said, ah, Kelly, why are you defending
Speaker 1: the middle ages? Jill can't drug other people's kids. That's
Speaker 1: still punishable by law. And last month he was sentenced
Speaker 1: to two years in prisoner.
Speaker 7: That's it.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he drugged a bunch of twelve year
Speaker 2: olds and he got two years.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he pleaded guilty for three felony counts of
Speaker 1: causing another person to ingest a controlled substance. Thank god,
Speaker 1: that's all that happened. Like, that's terrifying enough. Thank god,
Speaker 1: that's all that happened.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 1: But his argument was kel that he was wanting them
Speaker 1: to go to bed because he wanted them to be
Speaker 1: asleep by ten or eleven. I think it's a convenient argument,
Speaker 1: so did the prosecutor.
Speaker 2: Even though it kept coming down to check on their breaths.
Speaker 1: And there's like a few more details. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to go into everything too much, but if you want
Speaker 1: to read about it, you can google it and have
Speaker 1: a little read. But I think what's interesting is like
Speaker 1: a few people have done it, all right, It's not
Speaker 1: like a thing, and some people have taken a bit further.
Speaker 1: So there are obviously these stories that are quite alarming,
Speaker 1: and we don't want to be alarmisted.
Speaker 2: Didn't you When you were first looking into that, you
Speaker 2: came across a TikTok where a girl was like people
Speaker 2: asking me why I wasn't allowed to go to sleepovers?
Speaker 1: Well, this is the other thing that went viral around
Speaker 1: the same time. A girl who had just turned eighteen
Speaker 1: or was maybe talking about when she turned eighteen going
Speaker 1: to her first sleepover that basically all throughout her adolescent
Speaker 1: she was never allowed to sleep at anyone's house. And
Speaker 1: her friends asked her so, like you know, on the night,
Speaker 1: saying like, all, so, why were you not allowed to
Speaker 1: go to sleepovers as a kid, And she said, oh, well,
Speaker 1: my dad was sexually abused when he was a kid
Speaker 1: and he just never wanted that to happen to me.
Speaker 1: So she had a sleepover.
Speaker 6: She rings us late at night crying emotional and I said,
Speaker 6: what's wrong, like saying wrong, I'll come pick you up.
Speaker 6: She has no I just want to say thank you
Speaker 6: to your mom for protecting me. Because she's sitting around
Speaker 6: in a circle with her friends, her closest friends, five
Speaker 6: of them, and they were all shocked, like they couldn't
Speaker 6: believe that this was Oceana's first sleepover. She tells them
Speaker 6: why because my dad's story. He's very protective. Mom and
Speaker 6: dad work in the sector, you know, domestic violence and abuse.
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 6: All her friends start crying and they said, we wish
Speaker 6: our parents protected us. Like you're She's like, what do
Speaker 6: you mean? So we've all been abused. All the girls
Speaker 6: one by one opened up how they were all touched
Speaker 6: and it wasn't stranger danger, there was a family member,
Speaker 6: it was a friend of the house. So when we
Speaker 6: talk about statistics of you know, who's being abused, like,
Speaker 6: you're not going to see the rule of the reality
Speaker 6: because most survivors don't open up till twenty thirty years plus.
Speaker 1: Of course, that went viral because people aren't necessarily giving
Speaker 1: up that information freely. But when someone outlines it in
Speaker 1: front of you and they said, well, yeah, that did
Speaker 1: happen to me, it's like and typically people don't report abuse,
Speaker 1: especially kids, So especially kids. Yeah, it's very interesting. So
Speaker 1: I don't want to be all doom and gloom.
Speaker 2: Well, what can we discuss like what your experiences were
Speaker 2: with sleepovers, like were you allowed to go on them?
Speaker 2: What was your upbringing like in terms of slumber party sleepovers, I.
Speaker 1: Was allowed to go anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yes, well your grandparents raised you and they were probably.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yes, well I was allowed to always sleep
Speaker 1: at my cousin's houses, which is good. But then I
Speaker 1: remember I would live at my friends' houses because a
Speaker 1: lot of people felt sorry for me, kind of adopted
Speaker 1: me as like there, you know, extra kid. But there
Speaker 1: wasn't really anything nefarious ever happening at sleepovers. I think obviously,
Speaker 1: as I got older, we would sneak out and drink,
Speaker 1: but that's like sixteen, you know, fifteen sixteen, which obviously
Speaker 1: I don't really want rue to do that.
Speaker 2: But like, my.
Speaker 1: Experience isn't dictating what I want rue, because I loved
Speaker 1: sleepovers as a kid. I loved like watching your movies
Speaker 1: and getting to hang out with your friends and talking
Speaker 1: at night and giggling. But I don't know, it's a
Speaker 1: difficult situation because I think sometimes like that's just pure luck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I was friends with nice kids, Like I wasn't
Speaker 1: really bullied into doing anything or.
Speaker 2: Just bullied at all situations, So tell me about your
Speaker 2: experience in So, Yeah, when I was younger, no real rules.
Speaker 2: I mean there definitely was, like we've discussed how strict
Speaker 2: my parents were, but like mum and dad would go
Speaker 2: overseas and leave us with like our grandparents. We'd go
Speaker 2: for a couple of days at my auntie's house and
Speaker 2: like allowed to have slumber parties and sleepovers with our friends.
Speaker 2: And it's you're saying that, like all of your friends
Speaker 2: were really good kids and good families. It does depend
Speaker 2: on that, because I'm thinking about, like I grew up
Speaker 2: in probably a little bit of not a rough area,
Speaker 2: but there's lots of different types of families, and there
Speaker 2: were some situations that I look back on and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: my goodness, that was so dodgy. Yeah, Like in primary school,
Speaker 2: I was bullied so badly, as I've discussed, and sometimes
Speaker 2: I think the parents would make the kid invite me
Speaker 2: to a big group slumber party because I was in
Speaker 2: the group. But then yeah, it was just nasty and
Speaker 2: they'd make me do things or even just things like
Speaker 2: watching horror movies that I absolutely wasn't old enough to
Speaker 2: watch that literally terrified me to this day.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, things like spin the bottle and just things that
Speaker 2: weren't age appropriate. But the parents you can't sit in
Speaker 2: the room with the kids when there's ten or eleven
Speaker 2: as well, like they're doing their own thing. But I
Speaker 2: remember they were like, oh, you have to lie on
Speaker 2: top of Kelly for five minutes. And then I just
Speaker 2: hear the mom from another room going.
Speaker 7: You guys are too young for this, and in my
Speaker 7: mind I thought, oh, thank god, someone like a parent's
Speaker 7: come in because I was just so uncomfortable with the thought.
Speaker 2: Of a boy lying on top of me. I didn't
Speaker 2: have boobies or anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I think I told the story on another
Speaker 2: episode about we went to a slumber party for someone's
Speaker 2: twelfth or thirteenth birthday and the mom like fucked off
Speaker 2: to the pub and brought home a one night stand
Speaker 2: and she was kissed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's one of our Shitters was saying, is like, like,
Speaker 1: not all parents parents.
Speaker 2: The same, That's what I mean, Like, some parents are
Speaker 2: a little bit dodgy. Yeah, so you might think, oh,
Speaker 2: she's going she's safe.
Speaker 1: I was not safe.
Speaker 2: I had no one parenting me or watching out. And
Speaker 2: then she let some other bloke into the house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not great.
Speaker 2: I would say most people were fine, But then there
Speaker 2: was this other friend. And my parents always very This
Speaker 2: was in high school. They were always very iffy about
Speaker 2: her and her family. But I used to get so
Speaker 2: upset because she was one of my besties. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you know what happened the one time I was allowed
Speaker 2: to go to a sleepover. Her mom didn't give a shit.
Speaker 2: We went out, We went to the local park.
Speaker 1: Did you get ground?
Speaker 2: They never found out. They thought I was like curled
Speaker 2: up in bed with my friend, like giggling, eating popped corn.
Speaker 2: I'm so lucky that nothing bad ever happened, but there
Speaker 2: was still.
Speaker 1: Enough that's happened for you to be like, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to listen to this and think
Speaker 2: if they let their kids go for god with sleepovers.
Speaker 2: I don't want them to think that we're judging them.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: I might change my mind. And also, I think it
Speaker 2: depends on the kid. I think I was shy. I
Speaker 2: was very subdued with things, and I just wanted to
Speaker 2: fit in and be liked. Well, I think your kid
Speaker 2: has to be emotionally mature spoken, yeah, or just just
Speaker 2: understanding like good touch, bad touch, or you know, if
Speaker 2: they can leave, if they want to leave and they're
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with you know what the other kids are doing,
Speaker 2: to give them a call, will pick them.
Speaker 1: Up Like I had any other night.
Speaker 2: I never ever would have been strong enough of a
Speaker 2: person to actually make that call. That's why I think
Speaker 2: it depends on the kid as well. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: think for the next few years at the very least, Well,
Speaker 2: he's a little boy, not a chance. Yeah, he had
Speaker 2: a sleepover at his cousin's house with my mum. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I go for sleepovers with him to my girlfriend's house.
Speaker 1: So how do we navigate sleepovers safely?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 1: For those who are wanting to.
Speaker 2: Do this, independent children that know no means no respect,
Speaker 2: my body.
Speaker 1: All of those things, but communication with the parents in
Speaker 1: which they are going to be having this potential sleepover with.
Speaker 2: Who's list every single person that's going, well, that's what
Speaker 2: I've got on my list.
Speaker 1: It's going to be supervising the kids. Who else will
Speaker 1: be home? Are there any restrictions on what type of
Speaker 1: movies or TV shows that they can watch over the
Speaker 1: course of the sleepover. Disclosing medical conditions and food allergies
Speaker 1: and just saying like, hey, I don't really let them
Speaker 1: watch XYZ. And then just like bedtimes and wake times,
Speaker 1: just kind of like if your kid needs to be
Speaker 1: woken up by a certain time or whatever, just sussing that.
Speaker 1: But the biggest thing that I came out of my
Speaker 1: research that I did was this kind of trending alternative
Speaker 1: which is called a sleep under. So this is basically
Speaker 1: where a kid stays at a friend's house late but
Speaker 1: eventually goes home to sleep, so you pick them up
Speaker 1: at the end of the night. And recently, this mum
Speaker 1: who is from America, went viral for this video and
Speaker 1: how she navigated her six year old daughter receiving her
Speaker 1: first invitation to a sleepover. And she isn't a parent
Speaker 1: who feels comfortable with her child going to a sleepover,
Speaker 1: but the way in which she handled it kind of
Speaker 1: went viral.
Speaker 5: So I got this message with the birthday invitation saying
Speaker 5: it's going to be a sleepover, and I immediately knew that
Speaker 5: my daughter would not be allowed to do that, so
Speaker 5: I just responded back and I said, my daughter would
Speaker 5: love to celebrate your child's birthday but she's not able
Speaker 5: to do sleepovers. So I could bring her over evening
Speaker 5: time of the party, and I'll come pick her up
Speaker 5: for sleeping at home, and I can bring her back
Speaker 5: in the morning if you're planning on doing any activities
Speaker 5: in the morning, but also if you're not doing any
Speaker 5: morning activities, you don't have to say it's okay for
Speaker 5: her to come back. The other parent was super sweet
Speaker 5: about it, and she said, here are the things we're
Speaker 5: planning on doing the night before. Here's what we're planning
Speaker 5: on doing the next morning. If you want to bring
Speaker 5: her back from this time to this time in the morning,
Speaker 5: then that would be great. Here's how I navigated it
Speaker 5: when my daughter, You're going to go to your friend's
Speaker 5: house to celebrate your birthday, but then at the end
Speaker 5: of the evening, I said, some friends are going to
Speaker 5: say the night and sleep there, and some friends are
Speaker 5: going to go home and sleep in their own bed.
Speaker 5: And you're going to be one of those friends who
Speaker 5: goes home and sleeps in her own bed. But you're
Speaker 5: going to get to go back in the morning and
Speaker 5: partake in all the fun stuff that they do in
Speaker 5: the morning too. But I just want to say this.
Speaker 5: It's easy as parents to say absolutely no sleepovers, but
Speaker 5: then when you come to navigating, all right, what is
Speaker 5: that going to look like for us as my child's
Speaker 5: is not going to go to go to the party,
Speaker 5: or what are we gonna do? And I found this
Speaker 5: time that taking my child in the evening, picking her up,
Speaker 5: taking her back in the morning has been a really
Speaker 5: easy process and I'm glad it's the decision I made
Speaker 5: for now that.
Speaker 2: Is so good.
Speaker 1: It's such a good spies like, it's just it's a
Speaker 1: way for them to still have that right of passage
Speaker 1: and still be involved in those social situations that you
Speaker 1: don't want them to miss out on. You never want
Speaker 1: them to be excluded by anything.
Speaker 2: That's what because I'm thinking them home at the end
Speaker 2: of the night, of how heartbroken I would be when
Speaker 2: Lenny's like, everyone's gonna bully.
Speaker 1: Me so I don't get to go?
Speaker 2: Or what do I have to miss out? So in
Speaker 2: my mind I'm already like, what would I be able
Speaker 2: to offer him that's more fun?
Speaker 1: Like as an alternative, well, it's just creating the boundary, right,
Speaker 1: Like you're still letting them do the thing, but you're
Speaker 1: creating a boundary and it's like you're meeting them in
Speaker 1: the middle, which I think.
Speaker 2: I love that so much.
Speaker 1: No wonder it went viral, right, Yeah, so good smart lady. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed this episode, shit is, and we
Speaker 1: hope that we provided a little bit of food for thought.
Speaker 1: It certainly got us thinking. And look, never say never.
Speaker 2: I think, oh god, you might be laughing at us
Speaker 2: so much because you might be like, just you two
Speaker 2: waste exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: But we think it's an interesting topic to talk about.
Speaker 1: Chat great chat, and it's just something that I think
Speaker 1: all of us are trying to figure out with all
Speaker 1: the new knowledge and things that we have about parenting,
Speaker 1: how do we still give the kids a happy, fun
Speaker 1: childhood with but also keep them safe them safe from
Speaker 1: with the knowledge that the world is just full of psychopaths.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2: We love being in your ears. And I do just
Speaker 2: want to reiterate if you do go for gold with sleepovers,
Speaker 2: like I think that that's incredible if that's what you
Speaker 2: want to do and that's what you comfortable. And I
Speaker 2: also think that it would be really nice not to
Speaker 2: just think of the true crime conversations that go on
Speaker 2: in my head.
Speaker 1: Yeah so yeah.
Speaker 2: I just don't want anyone to listen to this and
Speaker 2: think that there's any judgment if you do, because there
Speaker 2: absolutely isn't.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and it's good cause for debate. This episode
Speaker 1: was produced by myself, Key Resales, and Kelly McCarran, with
Speaker 1: audio production by the wonderful and very talented Madeline Joanna.
Speaker 1: Have a great week, shitters will be in your ears
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 2: Bye bye ah you gone.
Speaker 1: I love this guy, show some respect down on one knee.
Speaker 1: I love it so much.
Speaker 2: The words