1 00:00:11,149 --> 00:00:13,909 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,829 --> 00:00:18,349 Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:18,349 --> 00:00:20,069 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,269 --> 00:00:23,109 Speaker 1: Hello. I'm Stacy Hicks. I'm the editor of Mamma Mia 5 00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:25,629 Speaker 1: and I'm also the host of our new parenting podcast, 6 00:00:25,749 --> 00:00:29,149 Speaker 1: Parenting out Loud. And this summer, we're curating your listening 7 00:00:29,149 --> 00:00:32,189 Speaker 1: with a healthy dose of culture savvy conversations that parents 8 00:00:32,309 --> 00:00:36,229 Speaker 1: actually want. This holiday season, we're bringing you unmissable episodes 9 00:00:36,349 --> 00:00:39,789 Speaker 1: right here into your podcast playlist. It's your summer listening sorted. 10 00:00:40,229 --> 00:00:42,109 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for more to listen to, every 11 00:00:42,189 --> 00:00:45,069 Speaker 1: Muma Mia podcast is curating some are listening right across 12 00:00:45,109 --> 00:00:48,909 Speaker 1: the network, from pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews. 13 00:00:49,189 --> 00:00:51,629 Speaker 1: There's something for everyone. There's a link in the show notes. 14 00:00:58,829 --> 00:01:01,949 Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast where we bring 15 00:01:02,029 --> 00:01:06,469 Speaker 2: you the week in parenting culture. I'm Monique Bowley, I'm Amelia. 16 00:01:06,109 --> 00:01:08,149 Speaker 1: Laster, and I am Stacy Hicks. 17 00:01:08,349 --> 00:01:10,549 Speaker 2: Hey, before we start, I have a public servicenouncement for 18 00:01:10,589 --> 00:01:13,269 Speaker 2: you both. We've all been saying Birkenstock wrong. 19 00:01:13,709 --> 00:01:14,989 Speaker 3: How is it meant to be? 20 00:01:15,509 --> 00:01:19,989 Speaker 1: It's Birkenstock, but you're not expecting us to say that 21 00:01:20,109 --> 00:01:21,829 Speaker 1: like Bartholonna, are you. 22 00:01:22,189 --> 00:01:24,349 Speaker 2: Yes, yes? The Germans want you to say it like that. 23 00:01:24,509 --> 00:01:26,669 Speaker 2: So Damien Wilno is the fashion writer for the City 24 00:01:26,709 --> 00:01:28,989 Speaker 2: Morning Herald, and he did this great piece. He went 25 00:01:28,989 --> 00:01:31,469 Speaker 2: to Germany and talked to the people that make Birkenstocks 26 00:01:31,989 --> 00:01:35,189 Speaker 2: and he said they're the thinking person's crocs. I love that. 27 00:01:35,509 --> 00:01:37,949 Speaker 3: I love that makes me feel so much better about 28 00:01:37,949 --> 00:01:39,269 Speaker 3: wearing them literally all the time. 29 00:01:39,949 --> 00:01:42,869 Speaker 2: My other favorite part of the article was Birkenstocks are 30 00:01:42,869 --> 00:01:45,989 Speaker 2: having a moment. They're very trendy right now. All these 31 00:01:46,029 --> 00:01:48,269 Speaker 2: brands are trying to collab with them. And Louis Vuitton 32 00:01:48,429 --> 00:01:52,109 Speaker 2: tried to collab with Birkenstocks and they said, no, it's 33 00:01:52,149 --> 00:01:53,429 Speaker 2: not orthopedically good. 34 00:01:54,109 --> 00:01:54,309 Speaker 4: Oh. 35 00:01:54,349 --> 00:01:58,389 Speaker 3: I love her. Never change, Birkenstock, Never change. 36 00:01:59,269 --> 00:02:01,229 Speaker 2: Hey. Coming up on today's show, what have We Got? 37 00:02:01,309 --> 00:02:04,589 Speaker 1: Hailey Bieber has just become my unlikely parenting guru, So 38 00:02:04,589 --> 00:02:06,149 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you exactly what she said. 39 00:02:06,309 --> 00:02:09,389 Speaker 2: Halloween just gets bigger and bigger every year, but are 40 00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:10,709 Speaker 2: we missing the whole point of it? 41 00:02:11,029 --> 00:02:13,869 Speaker 4: And the new Victoria Beckham documentary on Netflix has got 42 00:02:13,909 --> 00:02:17,229 Speaker 4: me thinking about why we love some famous kids and 43 00:02:17,309 --> 00:02:18,789 Speaker 4: roll our eyes at others. 44 00:02:19,189 --> 00:02:21,269 Speaker 2: First, Stacey, what stories have we missed this week? 45 00:02:21,509 --> 00:02:23,469 Speaker 1: This one blew my mind, so I had to bring 46 00:02:23,509 --> 00:02:25,429 Speaker 1: it to you. Have either of you got a spare 47 00:02:25,469 --> 00:02:28,709 Speaker 1: thirty k laying around, No, because that's how much it's 48 00:02:28,749 --> 00:02:31,989 Speaker 1: going to cost for you to get Taylor Humphrey, professional 49 00:02:31,989 --> 00:02:34,189 Speaker 1: baby namer to name your baby for you. 50 00:02:34,309 --> 00:02:36,709 Speaker 3: A professional baby name. Ah huh ahu. 51 00:02:37,069 --> 00:02:39,269 Speaker 1: She claimed she just started this out of a passion 52 00:02:39,389 --> 00:02:41,829 Speaker 1: for babies name, so it's a very niche passion. 53 00:02:41,829 --> 00:02:44,029 Speaker 3: I have a passion for money. I should start, Yeah, 54 00:02:44,069 --> 00:02:47,029 Speaker 3: you really should. But she's in hot demand. 55 00:02:47,069 --> 00:02:49,589 Speaker 1: She's in San Francisco, so a lot of rich and 56 00:02:49,629 --> 00:02:52,269 Speaker 1: famous people use her. And there is a scale to this. 57 00:02:52,389 --> 00:02:55,189 Speaker 1: Thirty k is obviously for the more deluxe package. For 58 00:02:55,269 --> 00:02:58,309 Speaker 1: two hundred bucks you can get some personalized name ideas 59 00:02:58,349 --> 00:03:01,349 Speaker 1: in an email. For thirty grand, you're getting things like 60 00:03:01,749 --> 00:03:06,229 Speaker 1: a genealogical research system and think tanks to come up 61 00:03:06,269 --> 00:03:09,109 Speaker 1: with the perfect name for your baby. And there was 62 00:03:09,149 --> 00:03:11,789 Speaker 1: this brilliant piece in the San Francisco Chronicle where this 63 00:03:12,029 --> 00:03:15,189 Speaker 1: luxury real estate agent spoke about how she was about 64 00:03:15,229 --> 00:03:17,269 Speaker 1: to get kicked out of the hospital because she'd been 65 00:03:17,269 --> 00:03:19,709 Speaker 1: there so long, but they wouldn't let her leave without 66 00:03:19,789 --> 00:03:23,909 Speaker 1: naming the baby. They'd chosen the first name. They'd chosen 67 00:03:23,949 --> 00:03:27,429 Speaker 1: the name Mara, they just couldn't agree on a middle name, 68 00:03:27,669 --> 00:03:31,589 Speaker 1: so they use this woman on an emergency call to 69 00:03:31,829 --> 00:03:32,989 Speaker 1: name their baby. 70 00:03:33,349 --> 00:03:36,229 Speaker 2: What as I'm sorry, that is such a waste to 71 00:03:36,309 --> 00:03:38,389 Speaker 2: use on a middle name, like, at least use it 72 00:03:38,429 --> 00:03:39,189 Speaker 2: on the first name. 73 00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:40,869 Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you want to know what the middle 74 00:03:40,909 --> 00:03:43,109 Speaker 1: name is? What this hard earned money got them? 75 00:03:43,469 --> 00:03:44,949 Speaker 3: Lily? Nice name. 76 00:03:45,069 --> 00:03:48,109 Speaker 4: I relate to this, though. I think boys' names in particular. 77 00:03:48,229 --> 00:03:50,309 Speaker 4: I found it really challenging coming up with a boy 78 00:03:50,429 --> 00:03:53,829 Speaker 4: name so hard. Ultimately went with the most popular name 79 00:03:53,869 --> 00:03:56,669 Speaker 4: of all time, John, So maybe we should have used 80 00:03:56,669 --> 00:03:57,189 Speaker 4: the service. 81 00:03:57,269 --> 00:03:59,429 Speaker 1: Well, I just feel like they're doing this because it's 82 00:03:59,469 --> 00:04:02,309 Speaker 1: like renovating a bathroom, like you could do it yourself. 83 00:04:02,549 --> 00:04:04,229 Speaker 1: But if you've got the money, why would you like 84 00:04:04,349 --> 00:04:06,149 Speaker 1: just leave it to someone who's really into it. 85 00:04:06,389 --> 00:04:10,509 Speaker 2: Okay, hear me out. What if this is a good investment, 86 00:04:11,069 --> 00:04:14,589 Speaker 2: It's insane. No, it's like price per wear, price per 87 00:04:14,669 --> 00:04:17,789 Speaker 2: use of a name comes down a lot. And also, 88 00:04:17,989 --> 00:04:20,949 Speaker 2: if we're talking return on investment. We talked about this 89 00:04:20,989 --> 00:04:25,309 Speaker 2: a few weeks ago about how certain names attract certain figures, 90 00:04:25,349 --> 00:04:28,629 Speaker 2: like your lifetime earnings can be boosted if you have 91 00:04:28,669 --> 00:04:31,789 Speaker 2: a certain name over another one. So that could be 92 00:04:31,829 --> 00:04:34,669 Speaker 2: worth tens of thousands of dollars. So maybe spending thirty 93 00:04:34,669 --> 00:04:37,509 Speaker 2: grand on a name is an investment. It's a marketing 94 00:04:37,589 --> 00:04:39,349 Speaker 2: ploy that's going to last a lifetime. 95 00:04:39,429 --> 00:04:41,549 Speaker 1: For thirty thousand dollars months, I want them to move 96 00:04:41,589 --> 00:04:45,109 Speaker 1: in and raise the child for me, that is insane. 97 00:04:45,229 --> 00:04:45,989 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. 98 00:04:46,509 --> 00:04:49,629 Speaker 1: Just call them Bobby and move one. 99 00:04:49,269 --> 00:04:53,229 Speaker 4: Cost per use t Hey, I've got a story that 100 00:04:53,429 --> 00:04:54,789 Speaker 4: I just loved this week. 101 00:04:54,909 --> 00:04:56,469 Speaker 3: It was a real feel good story. 102 00:04:56,629 --> 00:04:59,309 Speaker 4: So year twelve students all around Australia right now are 103 00:04:59,309 --> 00:05:01,909 Speaker 4: sitting their final exams. Do you remember what that moment 104 00:05:02,069 --> 00:05:05,549 Speaker 4: was like in your life? It was so stressful but exciting, 105 00:05:06,109 --> 00:05:09,789 Speaker 4: And I just love reading stories about students who've overcome 106 00:05:09,829 --> 00:05:12,269 Speaker 4: all sorts of challenges to get to that point, and 107 00:05:12,349 --> 00:05:14,789 Speaker 4: this week there was a real cracker in that genre. 108 00:05:15,269 --> 00:05:19,389 Speaker 4: Jet Thompson is a kid at Sydney's Mossman High School 109 00:05:19,589 --> 00:05:21,709 Speaker 4: and he lost his sight when he was eight. He 110 00:05:21,749 --> 00:05:23,789 Speaker 4: found that he kept falling down the stairs and so 111 00:05:23,869 --> 00:05:27,309 Speaker 4: they took him to the optometrist. Next thing, they knew 112 00:05:27,349 --> 00:05:30,149 Speaker 4: they were at the doctor's office. He had a brain tumor. 113 00:05:30,509 --> 00:05:32,709 Speaker 4: And the very next day, aufter the diagnosis, he goes 114 00:05:32,749 --> 00:05:35,109 Speaker 4: in for surgery and he comes out and he has 115 00:05:35,149 --> 00:05:37,989 Speaker 4: lost his sight. And that was at age eight. He 116 00:05:38,029 --> 00:05:40,149 Speaker 4: found that he couldn't participate in any of the things 117 00:05:40,189 --> 00:05:42,229 Speaker 4: that he used to love. He couldn't play video games, 118 00:05:42,269 --> 00:05:44,509 Speaker 4: he couldn't play sports. So he poured himself into his 119 00:05:44,589 --> 00:05:46,949 Speaker 4: academic work. This is an article on the Sydney Morning Herald, 120 00:05:46,989 --> 00:05:49,229 Speaker 4: by the way, and he has wound up ducks of 121 00:05:49,269 --> 00:05:49,789 Speaker 4: his school. 122 00:05:49,949 --> 00:05:51,389 Speaker 3: Oh how cool. 123 00:05:51,549 --> 00:05:54,189 Speaker 4: And it's also a story about his amazing teachers because 124 00:05:54,229 --> 00:05:56,629 Speaker 4: he has to do his exams in Braille. So for instance, 125 00:05:56,709 --> 00:06:00,869 Speaker 4: his HSC Maths exam goes for seven hours because obviously 126 00:06:00,869 --> 00:06:04,029 Speaker 4: it takes a long time to read Braille. His teachers 127 00:06:04,069 --> 00:06:06,389 Speaker 4: have all earned Braille so that they can better support 128 00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:09,789 Speaker 4: him in his studies. This just makes me feel so 129 00:06:10,189 --> 00:06:13,189 Speaker 4: proud of his teachers and of Jet, and we just 130 00:06:13,189 --> 00:06:15,349 Speaker 4: want to wish Jet all the best in his exams. 131 00:06:15,589 --> 00:06:16,149 Speaker 3: How good. 132 00:06:16,549 --> 00:06:19,349 Speaker 2: I loved that story. I want to talk about Halloween 133 00:06:19,709 --> 00:06:24,629 Speaker 2: because Halloween's here and it's a full cultural takeover and 134 00:06:24,669 --> 00:06:26,229 Speaker 2: I want to go there. But first I've got some 135 00:06:26,309 --> 00:06:30,549 Speaker 2: ground rules. Number one, let's not argue about whether Halloween 136 00:06:30,589 --> 00:06:33,709 Speaker 2: should be a thing, and number two, let's not talk 137 00:06:33,749 --> 00:06:37,709 Speaker 2: about how it's too American, and number three, let's not 138 00:06:37,789 --> 00:06:44,109 Speaker 2: talk about its pagan origins. Okay, because it's not going anywhere. 139 00:06:44,349 --> 00:06:48,069 Speaker 2: It gets bigger every year and kids lose their mind 140 00:06:48,149 --> 00:06:51,709 Speaker 2: over it. So what I'm interested in is this. Some 141 00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:56,229 Speaker 2: people say it's great, it builds community, it's a developmental 142 00:06:56,309 --> 00:06:59,549 Speaker 2: gold mine. There are psychologists who say this is really 143 00:06:59,629 --> 00:07:02,989 Speaker 2: important because it gives kids a chance to flirt with 144 00:07:03,149 --> 00:07:06,469 Speaker 2: kind of dark themes and scary things in quite a 145 00:07:06,469 --> 00:07:10,629 Speaker 2: safe environment, and it improves social skills talking to neighbors 146 00:07:10,629 --> 00:07:14,669 Speaker 2: and getting out there. There's this other thought, which is, no, 147 00:07:14,989 --> 00:07:18,589 Speaker 2: this is just a sugared up stress bomb for parents 148 00:07:18,589 --> 00:07:23,389 Speaker 2: that are already stretched. It's an environmental nightmare. It's consumerism 149 00:07:23,429 --> 00:07:25,909 Speaker 2: in a witch has had so grab your witches brooms. 150 00:07:26,189 --> 00:07:32,429 Speaker 2: Let's discuss Amelia. You have American Halloween experience and you're 151 00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:35,549 Speaker 2: now here, So where do you land on the spectrum? 152 00:07:35,669 --> 00:07:38,909 Speaker 4: So I think that what's happened with Australian Halloween is 153 00:07:38,949 --> 00:07:42,429 Speaker 4: that it's taken the worst elements of American Halloween and 154 00:07:42,469 --> 00:07:45,709 Speaker 4: none of the good parts of American Halloween, and so 155 00:07:45,829 --> 00:07:48,509 Speaker 4: of course a lot of Australians are feeling hostile towards it. 156 00:07:48,829 --> 00:07:52,029 Speaker 4: So let me explain. The reason why Americans love Halloween 157 00:07:52,549 --> 00:07:55,589 Speaker 4: is because it is about getting to know your neighbors. 158 00:07:55,829 --> 00:07:59,029 Speaker 4: It is a chance to build community in your neighborhood. 159 00:07:59,789 --> 00:08:01,669 Speaker 4: When you have young kids, most of the people you 160 00:08:01,749 --> 00:08:04,149 Speaker 4: spend time with are other people who have young kids. 161 00:08:04,549 --> 00:08:06,669 Speaker 4: But the great thing that happens when you trick or 162 00:08:06,709 --> 00:08:08,989 Speaker 4: treat is that the kids get to connect with people 163 00:08:09,029 --> 00:08:11,949 Speaker 4: in very different way life situations that happen to live 164 00:08:11,989 --> 00:08:15,229 Speaker 4: in your area, and it's often older people who happen 165 00:08:15,309 --> 00:08:17,069 Speaker 4: to live near them that they would never have had 166 00:08:17,069 --> 00:08:20,429 Speaker 4: the chance to meet otherwise. I think this is because 167 00:08:20,509 --> 00:08:23,429 Speaker 4: in the US there's no real social safety net, so 168 00:08:23,709 --> 00:08:26,469 Speaker 4: if something really bad happens to you, the government is 169 00:08:26,509 --> 00:08:29,389 Speaker 4: not going to help you out with it, so your neighbors, 170 00:08:29,389 --> 00:08:31,349 Speaker 4: the people around you have to step up. 171 00:08:31,389 --> 00:08:34,149 Speaker 3: And there's a really strong sense of organic. 172 00:08:33,749 --> 00:08:37,909 Speaker 4: Community because people know the last safety net between them 173 00:08:37,989 --> 00:08:41,629 Speaker 4: and crisis other people around them, not the government. And 174 00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:44,069 Speaker 4: what happens with trick or treating and why it's such 175 00:08:44,109 --> 00:08:47,389 Speaker 4: a genius way of creating that sense of community is 176 00:08:47,429 --> 00:08:50,509 Speaker 4: that you send kids, almost as ambassadors, to go and 177 00:08:50,589 --> 00:08:53,189 Speaker 4: knock on doors and speak to strangers and ask them 178 00:08:53,229 --> 00:08:56,469 Speaker 4: for candy. This is precisely what we spend the other 179 00:08:56,509 --> 00:08:58,429 Speaker 4: three hundred and sixty four days of the year telling 180 00:08:58,509 --> 00:09:01,349 Speaker 4: children not to do. But on this one day, we say, 181 00:09:01,709 --> 00:09:04,949 Speaker 4: we trust our neighbors enough to send our precious children 182 00:09:05,029 --> 00:09:08,029 Speaker 4: to their doors to knock on them and to engage 183 00:09:08,029 --> 00:09:09,509 Speaker 4: with them and to ask for something. 184 00:09:10,229 --> 00:09:11,389 Speaker 3: Us exercise there. 185 00:09:11,709 --> 00:09:14,909 Speaker 4: That is very powerful, and I think that's why Americans 186 00:09:15,109 --> 00:09:16,709 Speaker 4: love Halloween so much. 187 00:09:17,029 --> 00:09:20,789 Speaker 1: I don't agree because I feel like you go and 188 00:09:21,189 --> 00:09:23,749 Speaker 1: you knock, and you get the chocolate, and then you're gone, 189 00:09:23,829 --> 00:09:26,829 Speaker 1: like five seconds later. And in my neighborhood, maybe I'm 190 00:09:26,829 --> 00:09:28,669 Speaker 1: in the wrong neighborhood, but a lot of people have 191 00:09:28,709 --> 00:09:31,949 Speaker 1: to drive to other neighborhoods where they really go big 192 00:09:31,989 --> 00:09:33,469 Speaker 1: with Halloween to then do it there. 193 00:09:33,669 --> 00:09:35,349 Speaker 3: And that's what I mean about doing it wrong. 194 00:09:35,469 --> 00:09:39,229 Speaker 4: Yeah. The thing in the US is that in your neighborhood, 195 00:09:39,229 --> 00:09:42,669 Speaker 4: they'll be little block parties. People might do a little barbecue, 196 00:09:42,909 --> 00:09:45,509 Speaker 4: and they'll be like adults sitting in their garden like 197 00:09:45,669 --> 00:09:48,109 Speaker 4: drinking a beer and waiting for the kids to come by. 198 00:09:48,509 --> 00:09:50,869 Speaker 4: And there's also no hostility. I think I've done trick 199 00:09:50,949 --> 00:09:53,389 Speaker 4: or treating here. And I know a lot of Australians 200 00:09:53,429 --> 00:09:56,029 Speaker 4: think of it as a really sort of toxic American 201 00:09:56,109 --> 00:09:57,789 Speaker 4: import and they roll their eyes at it. 202 00:09:57,949 --> 00:09:58,869 Speaker 3: So you're not. 203 00:09:58,829 --> 00:10:01,629 Speaker 4: Getting that sense of every single house is excited to 204 00:10:01,669 --> 00:10:04,069 Speaker 4: greet your kids, he's excited to give them the camera. 205 00:10:04,149 --> 00:10:05,989 Speaker 1: Well, to me, the most exciting bit about it is 206 00:10:05,989 --> 00:10:07,829 Speaker 1: that you get to have a little sticky beak inside 207 00:10:07,829 --> 00:10:10,269 Speaker 1: your neighbor's houses. Like I know you're only at the door, 208 00:10:10,309 --> 00:10:12,829 Speaker 1: but that bits appealing to me. I always want to 209 00:10:12,829 --> 00:10:15,149 Speaker 1: know what everyone else's house on my street looks like. 210 00:10:15,269 --> 00:10:16,669 Speaker 3: Do you even know your neighbors? 211 00:10:16,709 --> 00:10:18,709 Speaker 4: Like it's telling that you don't really know what the 212 00:10:18,749 --> 00:10:20,029 Speaker 4: inside of their houses look like. 213 00:10:20,189 --> 00:10:20,749 Speaker 3: Yeah that's true. 214 00:10:20,789 --> 00:10:23,229 Speaker 1: Where great mates with our neighbors on one side, but 215 00:10:23,309 --> 00:10:25,309 Speaker 1: yeah the rest of the street no. So maybe this 216 00:10:25,469 --> 00:10:28,069 Speaker 1: is like an opportunity to open that up. 217 00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:30,989 Speaker 2: I do think it's a missed opportunity for us. So 218 00:10:31,189 --> 00:10:34,629 Speaker 2: I was a Halloween hater, but thinking fit through to 219 00:10:34,709 --> 00:10:38,389 Speaker 2: talk to you about it, it has potential, right, community 220 00:10:38,549 --> 00:10:43,229 Speaker 2: is really very much needed now, and that's the promise 221 00:10:43,349 --> 00:10:46,149 Speaker 2: of Halloween, and that sounds like what it is in America. 222 00:10:46,229 --> 00:10:49,309 Speaker 2: I just wish the execution in Australia was that. I 223 00:10:49,349 --> 00:10:51,549 Speaker 2: wonder if we'll get there, because I think people are 224 00:10:51,669 --> 00:10:54,669 Speaker 2: really hungry for that connection, Like most of us are 225 00:10:54,749 --> 00:10:57,789 Speaker 2: raising kids with no time, with no energy, with no aunties, 226 00:10:57,989 --> 00:11:00,469 Speaker 2: sort of down the road. So instead of it being 227 00:11:00,549 --> 00:11:04,309 Speaker 2: about community, it does feel like this just pressure cooker 228 00:11:04,509 --> 00:11:09,269 Speaker 2: of costumes, lollies, plastic, fake spiderwebs that hurt wildlife, Like 229 00:11:09,589 --> 00:11:12,149 Speaker 2: there's a lot of rama around it. But I think 230 00:11:12,189 --> 00:11:14,789 Speaker 2: we are desperate for shared rituals. The thing I like 231 00:11:14,829 --> 00:11:18,349 Speaker 2: about Halloween is it's a space to do it. It's 232 00:11:18,349 --> 00:11:21,269 Speaker 2: a way to do it that's not sporting. It's not 233 00:11:21,349 --> 00:11:24,469 Speaker 2: afloor n RL, it's not political, it's not divisive like 234 00:11:24,469 --> 00:11:28,709 Speaker 2: Australia Day slash Invasion Day. So it's non political, non sporting, 235 00:11:28,829 --> 00:11:31,349 Speaker 2: and so in that sense it has the potential to 236 00:11:31,389 --> 00:11:34,189 Speaker 2: be quite a good community event in the way that 237 00:11:34,269 --> 00:11:34,829 Speaker 2: you say. 238 00:11:35,029 --> 00:11:38,309 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what you say about everyone kind of being separated, 239 00:11:38,349 --> 00:11:40,469 Speaker 1: like I think that's so important. A lot of us 240 00:11:40,789 --> 00:11:43,749 Speaker 1: kind of are very siloed and don't talk to the neighbors, 241 00:11:43,789 --> 00:11:46,149 Speaker 1: and it reminded me of this great piece by Tiffany 242 00:11:46,149 --> 00:11:48,429 Speaker 1: Watt Smith. She wrote this piece why neighbors are so 243 00:11:48,469 --> 00:11:50,909 Speaker 1: important in the Digital Age, and she spoke about how 244 00:11:50,909 --> 00:11:52,829 Speaker 1: we kind of all live by that old adage now 245 00:11:52,869 --> 00:11:55,669 Speaker 1: that good fences make good neighbors, So we're not really like, 246 00:11:55,709 --> 00:11:57,269 Speaker 1: as long as they kind of stick to themselves and 247 00:11:57,269 --> 00:12:00,149 Speaker 1: don't annoy us, then they're a good neighbor. What we 248 00:12:00,229 --> 00:12:02,869 Speaker 1: need to be doing is kind of leaning into the 249 00:12:02,909 --> 00:12:05,909 Speaker 1: neighbors around us. That has to start with a moment, 250 00:12:05,949 --> 00:12:08,469 Speaker 1: and maybe Halloween is that moment. Like when else would 251 00:12:08,469 --> 00:12:10,549 Speaker 1: you just wander up to a neighbor's house, knock on 252 00:12:10,589 --> 00:12:11,709 Speaker 1: the door and start a chat. 253 00:12:11,949 --> 00:12:14,509 Speaker 4: I have a theory as to why I think it's 254 00:12:14,589 --> 00:12:19,389 Speaker 4: hard for Australians to embrace Halloween. Apart from the American connotations, 255 00:12:19,389 --> 00:12:22,229 Speaker 4: which I understand, there's a lot going on in America 256 00:12:22,349 --> 00:12:24,469 Speaker 4: right now that people probably don't want to see come 257 00:12:24,469 --> 00:12:27,509 Speaker 4: to Australia. I'm wondering if it has something to do 258 00:12:27,549 --> 00:12:30,629 Speaker 4: with the relationship Australians have with property and with where 259 00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:33,509 Speaker 4: they live. Think about that old cliche that Australians want 260 00:12:33,549 --> 00:12:36,149 Speaker 4: a quarter acre block, they want a house, a freestanding 261 00:12:36,189 --> 00:12:38,669 Speaker 4: house on a quarter acre block. That is a dream 262 00:12:38,829 --> 00:12:41,709 Speaker 4: that is completely out of reach for a lot of Australians, 263 00:12:41,789 --> 00:12:45,909 Speaker 4: especially younger Australians, who are now likely renting more than 264 00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:49,349 Speaker 4: previous generations used to, and don't have a connection to 265 00:12:49,389 --> 00:12:52,149 Speaker 4: the neighborhood that you might have if you own property 266 00:12:52,149 --> 00:12:54,229 Speaker 4: in it, because you know that your landlord could kick 267 00:12:54,269 --> 00:12:56,789 Speaker 4: you out at any time. You might feel resentful of 268 00:12:56,829 --> 00:12:59,109 Speaker 4: that lack of permanence in your neighborhood. Do you think 269 00:12:59,109 --> 00:13:02,709 Speaker 4: that's part of why it might have trouble gaining traction here, 270 00:13:02,789 --> 00:13:06,269 Speaker 4: because people don't feel that they're grounded in their community 271 00:13:06,349 --> 00:13:07,549 Speaker 4: because they're having to rent. 272 00:13:07,869 --> 00:13:10,029 Speaker 2: I think we've lost our social skills. I think, particular 273 00:13:10,269 --> 00:13:13,349 Speaker 2: post COVID, we've really lost our social skills. But I 274 00:13:13,389 --> 00:13:15,949 Speaker 2: think the other point you touched on Amelia and I 275 00:13:15,989 --> 00:13:17,469 Speaker 2: know the start I said this was one of the 276 00:13:17,549 --> 00:13:19,749 Speaker 2: rules we can't go there is the americanness of it, 277 00:13:20,029 --> 00:13:22,629 Speaker 2: and that doesn't sit very comfortably with us. And I 278 00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:27,549 Speaker 2: think it's because the acceleration of Halloween is largely due 279 00:13:27,549 --> 00:13:29,709 Speaker 2: in fact, to the media that we consume now. So 280 00:13:29,749 --> 00:13:32,349 Speaker 2: when we were kids, we had really limited options. It 281 00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:35,629 Speaker 2: was broadcast TV. You've watched Neighbors, You've watched ha Hate Saturday. 282 00:13:35,909 --> 00:13:39,949 Speaker 2: But now with Netflix, with YouTube, the dominant culture is 283 00:13:40,109 --> 00:13:45,309 Speaker 2: American culture. So Halloween is this kind of prolific runaway train. 284 00:13:45,389 --> 00:13:48,189 Speaker 2: It's a prolific part of our kids' media diets. And so, 285 00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:51,429 Speaker 2: like you say, it's not going anywhere, But where it 286 00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:53,829 Speaker 2: rankles with us is there is this feeling that we 287 00:13:53,869 --> 00:13:57,469 Speaker 2: are losing our australianness in this. It feels kind of 288 00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:58,669 Speaker 2: imperialistic in a way. 289 00:13:58,749 --> 00:14:02,269 Speaker 1: But I'd argue that's the same with every big kids event. Now, 290 00:14:02,269 --> 00:14:04,429 Speaker 1: don't you feel like they're all on steroids now? Like 291 00:14:04,789 --> 00:14:08,309 Speaker 1: book Week, Easter Hat Parade, like all of these things 292 00:14:08,349 --> 00:14:10,709 Speaker 1: that we do. I don't think it isn't necessarily an 293 00:14:10,709 --> 00:14:14,509 Speaker 1: American problem. I feel like we just have commodified everything 294 00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:15,869 Speaker 1: to the point where we feel like we have to 295 00:14:15,869 --> 00:14:19,229 Speaker 1: do it bigger and better every single year. Like everyone's 296 00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:21,229 Speaker 1: doing those things to the instagrae Now. 297 00:14:21,029 --> 00:14:23,029 Speaker 3: The Easter Hat parade is a great example. 298 00:14:23,069 --> 00:14:26,109 Speaker 4: Yeah, I discovered that I need to now own and 299 00:14:26,349 --> 00:14:31,509 Speaker 4: use a glue gun. Yes, I said, never never decided 300 00:14:31,549 --> 00:14:33,549 Speaker 4: that she needed a glue gun to make my Easter 301 00:14:33,669 --> 00:14:35,909 Speaker 4: hat for the parade. I do think there's an element 302 00:14:35,949 --> 00:14:39,389 Speaker 4: where children's activities have been turbocharged. And I do take 303 00:14:39,429 --> 00:14:41,949 Speaker 4: your point once about this feeling that Halloween has kind 304 00:14:41,989 --> 00:14:44,589 Speaker 4: of been foisted on us as another sort of American 305 00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:48,909 Speaker 4: commercial activity. It's hard, though, because I want people to 306 00:14:49,029 --> 00:14:52,869 Speaker 4: understand that the Halloween that they're experiencing here is just 307 00:14:52,909 --> 00:14:55,109 Speaker 4: simply not as good as it could or should be. 308 00:14:55,869 --> 00:14:57,829 Speaker 4: But I don't know if we can ever get over 309 00:14:57,909 --> 00:15:00,029 Speaker 4: that stigma of it seeming American. 310 00:15:00,229 --> 00:15:02,949 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think it's definitely onto something with that. 311 00:15:02,989 --> 00:15:06,189 Speaker 1: It needs to come back to that focus of community 312 00:15:06,309 --> 00:15:08,629 Speaker 1: rather than like going and grabbing as many chocolates as 313 00:15:08,709 --> 00:15:09,349 Speaker 1: you can get. 314 00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:10,389 Speaker 3: Well, you said us. 315 00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:13,469 Speaker 4: A great article Stacy this week from the Financial Times 316 00:15:13,669 --> 00:15:16,109 Speaker 4: that makes the point that we all kind of intuitively 317 00:15:16,189 --> 00:15:18,309 Speaker 4: know that if we know the people who live around us, 318 00:15:18,349 --> 00:15:21,629 Speaker 4: it probably makes for a greater sense of stability and 319 00:15:21,789 --> 00:15:25,269 Speaker 4: rootedness in where we live. And yet there's been remarkably 320 00:15:25,349 --> 00:15:28,709 Speaker 4: little research done into the connection between well being and 321 00:15:28,789 --> 00:15:31,829 Speaker 4: knowing your neighbors. But we all kind of know intuitively 322 00:15:31,909 --> 00:15:32,869 Speaker 4: that that's a good thing. 323 00:15:33,029 --> 00:15:35,429 Speaker 1: Yeah. She told this beautiful story and the piece about 324 00:15:35,549 --> 00:15:37,989 Speaker 1: how she went from kind of being on nodding terms 325 00:15:38,029 --> 00:15:40,229 Speaker 1: with one of her neighbors, Jan to being at the 326 00:15:40,269 --> 00:15:42,149 Speaker 1: point where they had each other's house keys, and she 327 00:15:42,349 --> 00:15:44,469 Speaker 1: kind of got involved towards the end of Jan's life 328 00:15:44,509 --> 00:15:47,149 Speaker 1: with a lot of her decisions and medical decisions and 329 00:15:47,229 --> 00:15:49,909 Speaker 1: letting her family know that we're far away how she 330 00:15:49,989 --> 00:15:50,429 Speaker 1: was doing. 331 00:15:50,709 --> 00:15:50,789 Speaker 4: So. 332 00:15:51,029 --> 00:15:54,069 Speaker 1: Not everyone has support nearby, not everyone has family and 333 00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:56,549 Speaker 1: friends super closed, but everyone has a neighbor. So it 334 00:15:56,549 --> 00:15:58,349 Speaker 1: probably should be something we're exploring more. 335 00:15:58,749 --> 00:16:02,029 Speaker 2: Hugh McKay is this amazing Australian social researcher Amelia who 336 00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:04,269 Speaker 2: does make that link. He wrote a book about it 337 00:16:04,269 --> 00:16:07,109 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago and talked about how community 338 00:16:07,149 --> 00:16:10,629 Speaker 2: is built in small gestures over a long period of time. 339 00:16:10,709 --> 00:16:13,789 Speaker 2: So it's bringing the neighbor's bin in taking over some biscuits. 340 00:16:13,869 --> 00:16:17,749 Speaker 2: It's just these tiny little moments over a sustained period, 341 00:16:18,789 --> 00:16:21,309 Speaker 2: not necessarily throwing your hand in the lolly bowl once 342 00:16:21,309 --> 00:16:21,589 Speaker 2: a year. 343 00:16:21,709 --> 00:16:24,829 Speaker 4: I love that takeover some biscuits, because that's not American 344 00:16:24,909 --> 00:16:27,709 Speaker 4: Americans would say takeover some cookies. We can all agree 345 00:16:27,789 --> 00:16:29,629 Speaker 4: that we should be taking our neighbors and biscuits. 346 00:16:29,709 --> 00:16:31,549 Speaker 2: Yeah, is there a way to resist it? Or do 347 00:16:31,589 --> 00:16:34,229 Speaker 2: we just have to roll over and accept that we're 348 00:16:34,269 --> 00:16:37,149 Speaker 2: going to be in the shops the day before buying 349 00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:39,069 Speaker 2: a twenty four pack of Caramela qualas. 350 00:16:39,309 --> 00:16:41,869 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we do need to accept that, because 351 00:16:42,189 --> 00:16:44,589 Speaker 1: I think the thing is we can resist, but they're 352 00:16:44,669 --> 00:16:46,589 Speaker 1: little for such a small period of time, and I 353 00:16:46,589 --> 00:16:49,429 Speaker 1: feel like, just like with Christmas, Halloween is that time 354 00:16:49,949 --> 00:16:51,389 Speaker 1: it can be a bit of joy and a bit 355 00:16:51,429 --> 00:16:53,629 Speaker 1: of silliness and it doesn't need to be so serious. 356 00:16:53,669 --> 00:16:55,909 Speaker 1: So as much as we say, oh, it's one of 357 00:16:55,909 --> 00:16:58,349 Speaker 1: those things where we're buying more stuff, we'll probably all 358 00:16:58,429 --> 00:17:00,389 Speaker 1: end up throwing together a costume at the last minute 359 00:17:00,429 --> 00:17:02,669 Speaker 1: and getting out there because at the end of the day, 360 00:17:03,029 --> 00:17:04,629 Speaker 1: it is a bit of joy with our children and 361 00:17:04,629 --> 00:17:05,709 Speaker 1: we could all use a bit of that. 362 00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:08,029 Speaker 4: My prediction there's going to be some K pop demon 363 00:17:08,109 --> 00:17:09,509 Speaker 4: hunters out there on the streets. 364 00:17:10,389 --> 00:17:12,029 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there is going to be a lot 365 00:17:12,029 --> 00:17:16,309 Speaker 1: of purple braids selling out Foreshore, I now have an 366 00:17:16,389 --> 00:17:20,429 Speaker 1: unlikely parenting guru, and it's Hailey Bieber. So a lot 367 00:17:20,469 --> 00:17:23,429 Speaker 1: of people will know her as Justin Bieber's wife, but 368 00:17:23,469 --> 00:17:26,429 Speaker 1: they shouldn't because she's really incredible and she's just sold 369 00:17:26,469 --> 00:17:30,309 Speaker 1: her business road for one billion dollars like she is 370 00:17:30,389 --> 00:17:32,909 Speaker 1: no joke. And she was interviewed by the Wall Street 371 00:17:32,949 --> 00:17:35,269 Speaker 1: Journal and they were asking her what the most surprising 372 00:17:35,349 --> 00:17:38,789 Speaker 1: parts about becoming a mama, and she had the most 373 00:17:38,909 --> 00:17:40,549 Speaker 1: eloquent answer, Take a listen. 374 00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:42,429 Speaker 5: When you become a mom, you change a lot, and 375 00:17:42,469 --> 00:17:44,309 Speaker 5: I think you don't know what to expect, and I 376 00:17:44,349 --> 00:17:45,349 Speaker 5: think that's very hard. 377 00:17:45,509 --> 00:17:48,629 Speaker 6: Before it happens, you're like I can't wait to go 378 00:17:48,749 --> 00:17:51,669 Speaker 6: back to blank, or like I can't wait until I 379 00:17:51,749 --> 00:17:53,309 Speaker 6: feel like blank again. 380 00:17:53,509 --> 00:17:54,829 Speaker 5: I think a lot of the time there isn't a 381 00:17:54,869 --> 00:17:57,429 Speaker 5: going back of sorts. It's like you become a mom 382 00:17:57,429 --> 00:17:59,549 Speaker 5: and then you move forward from there, and that's a 383 00:17:59,549 --> 00:18:00,789 Speaker 5: whole other journey in itself. 384 00:18:00,989 --> 00:18:04,309 Speaker 6: I feel like becoming a mom has given me a 385 00:18:04,389 --> 00:18:08,109 Speaker 6: different kind of like confidence to be more upfront and 386 00:18:08,149 --> 00:18:09,629 Speaker 6: see how I really feel and like not have to 387 00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:12,189 Speaker 6: hold back because you're your child's advocate. 388 00:18:12,189 --> 00:18:14,589 Speaker 5: And I think it's helped me advocate for myself more. 389 00:18:14,829 --> 00:18:17,389 Speaker 1: I love that, Isn't it great? It's kind of like 390 00:18:17,469 --> 00:18:19,709 Speaker 1: the mental load in the best possible way. Like once 391 00:18:19,749 --> 00:18:21,829 Speaker 1: you've got so much on and you've got a child, 392 00:18:21,949 --> 00:18:24,469 Speaker 1: you go, you know what, I don't care anymore? These 393 00:18:24,469 --> 00:18:26,029 Speaker 1: are the things that matter to me, and it kind 394 00:18:26,069 --> 00:18:27,709 Speaker 1: of brings out fury in a good way. 395 00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:30,149 Speaker 2: This is something that no one tells you will happen 396 00:18:30,229 --> 00:18:32,589 Speaker 2: when you become a mum. People say, oh, your nipples 397 00:18:32,589 --> 00:18:35,109 Speaker 2: will bleed and you'll be so tired, but no one 398 00:18:35,149 --> 00:18:37,469 Speaker 2: tells you about the moment that you step into like 399 00:18:37,949 --> 00:18:42,309 Speaker 2: mum mode and it's quite powerful and it's fucking awesome. 400 00:18:42,629 --> 00:18:45,989 Speaker 2: So the bit I love about this, why this is 401 00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:49,949 Speaker 2: so important that Hayley Bieber has done this is because 402 00:18:49,989 --> 00:18:54,789 Speaker 2: she's saying motherhood makes you stronger, read, even better at 403 00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:58,189 Speaker 2: your job. And that is so important because there are 404 00:18:58,309 --> 00:19:03,589 Speaker 2: multiple studies out there by psychologists, sociologists, anthropologists saying that 405 00:19:03,629 --> 00:19:07,989 Speaker 2: there exists a motherhood penalty in the workplace where mothers 406 00:19:08,109 --> 00:19:13,069 Speaker 2: are viewed as less competent, less committed, and less suited 407 00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:18,149 Speaker 2: to leadership. So Hailey Bieber saying basically the opposite. She's 408 00:19:18,189 --> 00:19:22,149 Speaker 2: an extremely influential, powerful business woman, Like that is culture 409 00:19:22,149 --> 00:19:23,549 Speaker 2: shifting and that is important. 410 00:19:23,789 --> 00:19:24,349 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 411 00:19:24,389 --> 00:19:26,309 Speaker 1: And I think we talk about mum rage a lot, 412 00:19:26,589 --> 00:19:28,909 Speaker 1: like that's kind of become the new thing that everyone 413 00:19:28,989 --> 00:19:30,549 Speaker 1: was like, oh, we never got told about this before, 414 00:19:30,589 --> 00:19:32,549 Speaker 1: and we do now. But I feel like what she's 415 00:19:32,589 --> 00:19:35,629 Speaker 1: talking about is more that being harnessed in a way 416 00:19:35,629 --> 00:19:37,709 Speaker 1: for your child, Like you do feel like you get 417 00:19:37,749 --> 00:19:42,029 Speaker 1: really protective over them, and by doing so, you advocate 418 00:19:42,029 --> 00:19:43,109 Speaker 1: for yourself more as well. 419 00:19:43,509 --> 00:19:46,189 Speaker 4: Yeah, I found this the use of her word advocate 420 00:19:46,389 --> 00:19:49,749 Speaker 4: or advocate really interesting, because that is exactly what you 421 00:19:49,869 --> 00:19:51,269 Speaker 4: have to become for your child. 422 00:19:51,349 --> 00:19:52,709 Speaker 3: They can't call. 423 00:19:52,749 --> 00:19:55,309 Speaker 4: The people that need to be called to get medical appointments, 424 00:19:55,429 --> 00:19:58,589 Speaker 4: they can't talk to the teacher about the educational issues 425 00:19:58,589 --> 00:20:00,949 Speaker 4: that your child is going through. You have to step 426 00:20:00,949 --> 00:20:03,349 Speaker 4: into that and assert yourself, even if you've spent your 427 00:20:03,389 --> 00:20:06,949 Speaker 4: whole life kind of avoiding situations of confrontation. So I 428 00:20:06,989 --> 00:20:09,989 Speaker 4: found it really astute of her to point out that 429 00:20:10,189 --> 00:20:13,589 Speaker 4: in stepping into that assertive mode for your child, you 430 00:20:13,749 --> 00:20:17,949 Speaker 4: also find yourself doing it more for yourself. Your personality changes. 431 00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:20,789 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I don't want to offend people that 432 00:20:20,829 --> 00:20:23,469 Speaker 2: don't have children, but and I don't want to use 433 00:20:23,509 --> 00:20:25,909 Speaker 2: that term like as a mum, but who I am 434 00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:28,909 Speaker 2: in the workplace, Like becoming a mother made me a 435 00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:31,549 Speaker 2: better manager, It made be better at work. And it's 436 00:20:31,589 --> 00:20:34,789 Speaker 2: frustrating that the studies say that the bias is the 437 00:20:34,829 --> 00:20:38,629 Speaker 2: opposite way that people view you as more incompetent, because 438 00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:42,109 Speaker 2: I think the opposite's true, and that's what she's saying. Yay, yay, Hayley. 439 00:20:42,429 --> 00:20:46,149 Speaker 4: It certainly made me more efficient at work, and it 440 00:20:46,189 --> 00:20:50,109 Speaker 4: speaks to this idea of balance between work and parenting 441 00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:53,349 Speaker 4: in that sometimes I feel like I'm spending too much 442 00:20:53,469 --> 00:20:56,189 Speaker 4: of my mental energies on work and not enough on 443 00:20:56,269 --> 00:20:59,949 Speaker 4: my children. Having to tune in constantly to how much 444 00:20:59,989 --> 00:21:02,789 Speaker 4: effort you're putting in at work versus out of work, 445 00:21:02,829 --> 00:21:05,949 Speaker 4: that's not a question that you have unless you're juggling 446 00:21:06,069 --> 00:21:07,429 Speaker 4: family responsibilities. 447 00:21:07,589 --> 00:21:07,829 Speaker 3: Yeah. 448 00:21:07,869 --> 00:21:11,189 Speaker 1: I thought it was really indi of her to say that, 449 00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:14,349 Speaker 1: and really touching actually that she said it and was like, 450 00:21:14,709 --> 00:21:17,909 Speaker 1: it's okay, you can feel this way now. I loved it, 451 00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:20,589 Speaker 1: and I loved at the start where she spoke about 452 00:21:20,909 --> 00:21:23,269 Speaker 1: how you kind of think you'll get to go back, 453 00:21:23,309 --> 00:21:25,109 Speaker 1: like it's all about once I have a baby, I'll 454 00:21:25,109 --> 00:21:26,749 Speaker 1: get back to this and I'll get back to that, 455 00:21:27,229 --> 00:21:29,189 Speaker 1: and that is just never what happens. And I know 456 00:21:29,349 --> 00:21:31,509 Speaker 1: I definitely fought that for a long time. I think 457 00:21:31,549 --> 00:21:33,749 Speaker 1: I was a bit in denial about the fact that 458 00:21:33,749 --> 00:21:36,069 Speaker 1: that version of me was gone. So I like that 459 00:21:36,109 --> 00:21:38,349 Speaker 1: she was talking about, you know, there's no going back now, 460 00:21:38,469 --> 00:21:40,549 Speaker 1: there's only moving forward from here, and that is a 461 00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:41,829 Speaker 1: different version of you. 462 00:21:42,229 --> 00:21:44,029 Speaker 3: Did you feel the same? Absolutely? 463 00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:46,229 Speaker 4: I remember that shortly after my first child was born, 464 00:21:46,269 --> 00:21:48,149 Speaker 4: I tried to go out for a fancy. 465 00:21:47,829 --> 00:21:50,989 Speaker 3: Dinner with the kid in the car seat just at 466 00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:51,469 Speaker 3: our feet. 467 00:21:51,549 --> 00:21:55,269 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And it was awful because even though he was, 468 00:21:55,429 --> 00:22:00,029 Speaker 4: you know, absolutely appropriately behaved for his age, I felt 469 00:22:00,069 --> 00:22:03,149 Speaker 4: so stressed out the whole time. I couldn't enjoy myself. 470 00:22:03,549 --> 00:22:05,589 Speaker 4: You know, you often hear people say I don't want 471 00:22:05,629 --> 00:22:08,669 Speaker 4: children to change me. Hailey is saying they're going to 472 00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:10,349 Speaker 4: change you, and that's okay. 473 00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:10,629 Speaker 1: It's okay. 474 00:22:10,949 --> 00:22:13,389 Speaker 3: I actually like Hailey. Now I not go and get some. 475 00:22:13,309 --> 00:22:16,549 Speaker 4: Of her peptide glazing fluid because that sounds like an 476 00:22:16,589 --> 00:22:19,109 Speaker 4: important product for someone who doesn't sleep a lot. 477 00:22:19,189 --> 00:22:19,589 Speaker 3: It does. 478 00:22:20,469 --> 00:22:23,429 Speaker 4: There's a new documentary about Victoria Beckham on Netflix, and 479 00:22:23,589 --> 00:22:28,989 Speaker 4: the breakout star is absolutely her fourteen year old daughter Harper. Yes, 480 00:22:29,429 --> 00:22:32,229 Speaker 4: she's the only one of the Beckham's four children who 481 00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:34,949 Speaker 4: is still living at home, and so that's part of 482 00:22:34,949 --> 00:22:36,869 Speaker 4: why she gets a lot of screen time. But I 483 00:22:36,909 --> 00:22:39,309 Speaker 4: think she's also on screen a lot, because she's just 484 00:22:39,389 --> 00:22:42,389 Speaker 4: really charming and funny. Like at one point, Victoria is 485 00:22:42,429 --> 00:22:46,909 Speaker 4: going to get an award from Harper's Bizarre and Harper says, 486 00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:49,229 Speaker 4: why is it called that? And Victoria says, well, it's 487 00:22:49,229 --> 00:22:51,669 Speaker 4: the name of a fashion magazine, and Harper says, I'd 488 00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:54,469 Speaker 4: always just assumed that it was named after me and. 489 00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:56,629 Speaker 3: Something very winning about that. 490 00:22:57,189 --> 00:22:59,909 Speaker 4: So it wasn't surprising to read reports this week that 491 00:23:00,069 --> 00:23:03,749 Speaker 4: said that Harper is starting her own beauty line, and 492 00:23:03,869 --> 00:23:07,589 Speaker 4: there's been a Hiku by Harper trademark application put in 493 00:23:07,629 --> 00:23:10,549 Speaker 4: the Sun reports her mum apparently wants to be as 494 00:23:10,589 --> 00:23:13,549 Speaker 4: big as Kylie Jenner's lip kits. I bet you does, 495 00:23:14,669 --> 00:23:16,509 Speaker 4: And to be honest, it sounds like a great idea 496 00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:18,789 Speaker 4: to me, but I did have to check myself because 497 00:23:19,749 --> 00:23:23,949 Speaker 4: I wondered why I'm cheering on this NEPO baby starting 498 00:23:23,989 --> 00:23:27,989 Speaker 4: a business, and yet in Victoria and David Beckham's family, 499 00:23:28,029 --> 00:23:32,589 Speaker 4: there's another quite famous NEPO baby who we all unfortunately 500 00:23:32,749 --> 00:23:35,469 Speaker 4: roll our eyes at, and that would be brother Brooklyn. 501 00:23:35,829 --> 00:23:39,229 Speaker 4: He's tried as a reminder, photography, he's tried cooking, he's 502 00:23:39,269 --> 00:23:44,389 Speaker 4: tried social media influencing, and rather famously he's flamed out 503 00:23:44,509 --> 00:23:48,709 Speaker 4: at every turn. Yeah, So my question is why are 504 00:23:48,749 --> 00:23:52,429 Speaker 4: they good NEPO babies and bad nepo babies. 505 00:23:52,869 --> 00:23:56,869 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the core of it is about fairness 506 00:23:56,989 --> 00:23:57,469 Speaker 2: and effort. 507 00:23:57,989 --> 00:24:00,349 Speaker 1: I have a theory about this, and I feel like 508 00:24:00,509 --> 00:24:05,229 Speaker 1: it all comes down to their skill or perceived skill. 509 00:24:05,629 --> 00:24:07,869 Speaker 1: So I think we very much have the feeling of 510 00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:09,709 Speaker 1: you can have it as long as you're good at it. 511 00:24:10,189 --> 00:24:13,429 Speaker 1: So if they are Dakota Johnson, who's the daughter of 512 00:24:13,589 --> 00:24:17,349 Speaker 1: Melanie Griffith, then that's okay because you've proved yourself as 513 00:24:17,349 --> 00:24:19,309 Speaker 1: a pretty good actress, like you can do it. Same 514 00:24:19,349 --> 00:24:22,909 Speaker 1: with Zoe Kravitz, daughter of Lenny Kravitz. It's when they 515 00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:25,429 Speaker 1: take that privilege but don't have the skill to back 516 00:24:25,429 --> 00:24:27,309 Speaker 1: it up that I think we get our back up 517 00:24:27,349 --> 00:24:27,749 Speaker 1: about it. 518 00:24:27,789 --> 00:24:29,189 Speaker 3: Like my dad's an electrician. 519 00:24:29,389 --> 00:24:31,709 Speaker 1: If I've gone into his family business and become an 520 00:24:31,709 --> 00:24:33,869 Speaker 1: electrician and been good at it, I doubt anyone would 521 00:24:33,869 --> 00:24:35,909 Speaker 1: have said anything. If I went in there and displayed 522 00:24:35,949 --> 00:24:38,909 Speaker 1: the skills I own, which are none for that, then 523 00:24:38,909 --> 00:24:41,149 Speaker 1: people would be annoyed. So I think it's the same 524 00:24:41,189 --> 00:24:44,109 Speaker 1: in everyday life and in the celebrity world. You have 525 00:24:44,189 --> 00:24:45,869 Speaker 1: to be able to prove yourself and back it up. 526 00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:48,229 Speaker 1: Sure you can take the privilege, but you need to 527 00:24:48,229 --> 00:24:48,949 Speaker 1: be able to back it up. 528 00:24:49,069 --> 00:24:51,469 Speaker 4: I think that's interesting, but I want to throw out 529 00:24:51,549 --> 00:24:54,869 Speaker 4: that there's some wrinkles in that theory. So, for instance, 530 00:24:54,949 --> 00:24:58,029 Speaker 4: Nicole Kidman just went to Paris Fashion Week with two 531 00:24:58,029 --> 00:25:01,469 Speaker 4: of her daughters, including seventeen year old Sunday Rose Urban, 532 00:25:01,549 --> 00:25:03,749 Speaker 4: who has walked the runway as a model for your 533 00:25:04,069 --> 00:25:07,429 Speaker 4: Naomi Watts, Nicole Kidman's best friend, her daughter Kai is 534 00:25:07,469 --> 00:25:10,909 Speaker 4: also launching a modeling career. And I think in something 535 00:25:10,989 --> 00:25:14,069 Speaker 4: like modeling, I think it would be wrong to say 536 00:25:14,069 --> 00:25:17,469 Speaker 4: that we're just assessing their skill in the abstract. We 537 00:25:17,589 --> 00:25:20,349 Speaker 4: are thinking about their parents when we're deciding whether or 538 00:25:20,349 --> 00:25:20,829 Speaker 4: not they're. 539 00:25:20,629 --> 00:25:21,349 Speaker 3: A good model. 540 00:25:21,829 --> 00:25:24,789 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe modeling is a different kettle of fish because 541 00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:26,269 Speaker 1: it's so subjective. 542 00:25:26,629 --> 00:25:32,109 Speaker 2: This is all about branding and cut through and p R. 543 00:25:32,429 --> 00:25:34,669 Speaker 4: But why does some of the branding work? And like 544 00:25:34,709 --> 00:25:36,749 Speaker 4: the idea of a family business. 545 00:25:36,469 --> 00:25:37,829 Speaker 2: Which one works? Tell me? 546 00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:41,909 Speaker 4: Well, for instance, Ben Stiller, he has a new documentary 547 00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:44,709 Speaker 4: out about his parents. It's called Stiller and Miara and 548 00:25:44,749 --> 00:25:47,349 Speaker 4: nothing is lost. Now, his parents were actors, not as 549 00:25:47,349 --> 00:25:49,949 Speaker 4: successful as Ben Stiller, but his dad. You would have 550 00:25:49,949 --> 00:25:53,469 Speaker 4: seen and Seinfeld as George's father. And the whole point 551 00:25:53,509 --> 00:25:56,349 Speaker 4: of that documentary is he's exploring the ways in which 552 00:25:56,389 --> 00:25:59,789 Speaker 4: his parents influenced his acting career, both in good and 553 00:25:59,909 --> 00:26:03,069 Speaker 4: bad ways. The example he gives is that he really 554 00:26:03,069 --> 00:26:04,389 Speaker 4: wanted to pursue comic acting. 555 00:26:04,469 --> 00:26:05,589 Speaker 3: Remember he was in Zoolander. 556 00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:08,109 Speaker 4: We sort of forget that now that he's producing Severance 557 00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:10,069 Speaker 4: and has become so serious, but he used to be 558 00:26:10,269 --> 00:26:12,909 Speaker 4: a well known comic actor. And he talks in the 559 00:26:12,949 --> 00:26:15,389 Speaker 4: documentary about the fact that his mother really tried to 560 00:26:15,389 --> 00:26:18,709 Speaker 4: dissuade him from that, and he speculates it's because she 561 00:26:18,909 --> 00:26:22,069 Speaker 4: never had the comedic acting career that she wanted, and 562 00:26:22,109 --> 00:26:24,229 Speaker 4: so she was kind of putting this all on Ben 563 00:26:24,309 --> 00:26:27,109 Speaker 4: and saying, I didn't get what I wanted in comic acting. 564 00:26:27,509 --> 00:26:29,549 Speaker 4: I'm really scared for you, and I don't want you 565 00:26:29,629 --> 00:26:30,909 Speaker 4: to fall into the same trap. 566 00:26:31,309 --> 00:26:34,589 Speaker 1: Maybe it's perceived effort. Then maybe that's what it is, 567 00:26:35,189 --> 00:26:38,189 Speaker 1: that you're wanting people who are really putting in the time, 568 00:26:38,429 --> 00:26:40,869 Speaker 1: like Ben Stiller. We go, yeah, yeah, you're fine, you 569 00:26:40,909 --> 00:26:43,669 Speaker 1: get a pass. It's when they do something like a model, 570 00:26:43,709 --> 00:26:45,709 Speaker 1: which does have a lot of stigma around it that 571 00:26:45,749 --> 00:26:47,629 Speaker 1: we'd go, oh, you don't really do anything, you just 572 00:26:47,709 --> 00:26:50,109 Speaker 1: walk down a runway. And I think that is why 573 00:26:50,189 --> 00:26:53,189 Speaker 1: Brooklyn Beckham gets such a hard time. There is this 574 00:26:53,309 --> 00:26:55,389 Speaker 1: video that has lived rent free in my mind for 575 00:26:55,389 --> 00:26:57,869 Speaker 1: about three years now where he got approached on the 576 00:26:57,869 --> 00:26:59,869 Speaker 1: street by a TikToker who was like. 577 00:26:59,989 --> 00:27:01,589 Speaker 3: Hey, man, I love your car. 578 00:27:02,029 --> 00:27:04,269 Speaker 1: What do you do for a job, Because he's in 579 00:27:04,309 --> 00:27:07,389 Speaker 1: a one point two million dollar convertible going down Rodeo 580 00:27:07,469 --> 00:27:09,669 Speaker 1: Drive and he looks at the guy and looks at 581 00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:14,069 Speaker 1: it uncomfor and goes, ah, I'm a chef, and he's like, yeah, cool, 582 00:27:14,309 --> 00:27:17,269 Speaker 1: and he drives off. Now that may have been Brooklyn 583 00:27:17,389 --> 00:27:19,149 Speaker 1: just trying to be very humble and not wanting to 584 00:27:19,229 --> 00:27:21,989 Speaker 1: say my parents are worth five hundred million dollars, which 585 00:27:22,069 --> 00:27:24,549 Speaker 1: is really probably how he got the car because he's 586 00:27:24,589 --> 00:27:25,429 Speaker 1: not actually a chef. 587 00:27:25,509 --> 00:27:27,189 Speaker 3: He cooks and films it. 588 00:27:27,709 --> 00:27:30,309 Speaker 1: But I think maybe that's what it is that annoys 589 00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:33,269 Speaker 1: us is that they handed a lot of privilege, and 590 00:27:33,349 --> 00:27:35,789 Speaker 1: so we're like, if you're getting that, you better be 591 00:27:35,869 --> 00:27:37,109 Speaker 1: putting in the work to get it. 592 00:27:37,229 --> 00:27:38,469 Speaker 3: And I think that's the distinction. 593 00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:41,229 Speaker 2: I hard agree Stacy, because I think at the core 594 00:27:41,309 --> 00:27:45,429 Speaker 2: of this is fairness, and fairness something that's really hardwired 595 00:27:45,469 --> 00:27:47,989 Speaker 2: from an early age. Like there are studies showing that 596 00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:50,509 Speaker 2: toddlers even get upset when other people get more cake 597 00:27:50,589 --> 00:27:53,269 Speaker 2: than them. You know, kids will often say that's not fair. 598 00:27:53,469 --> 00:27:56,109 Speaker 2: It's a very common refrain. So when we see someone 599 00:27:56,229 --> 00:27:59,989 Speaker 2: that's five steps ahead, that gets to start five steps ahead, 600 00:28:00,109 --> 00:28:02,749 Speaker 2: it kind of does trigger something quite primal in us. 601 00:28:02,829 --> 00:28:06,109 Speaker 2: So it's not necessarily about the NEPO babies themselves. It's 602 00:28:06,109 --> 00:28:09,709 Speaker 2: about what they represent, and that is that sometimes a 603 00:28:09,789 --> 00:28:11,949 Speaker 2: lot of time the system is rigged. 604 00:28:12,429 --> 00:28:14,229 Speaker 4: Yeah, but here's what I'm going to push back on 605 00:28:14,749 --> 00:28:17,909 Speaker 4: the idea that parents wanting their children to have the 606 00:28:18,029 --> 00:28:22,589 Speaker 4: best start in whatever they're interested in is somehow morally wrong. 607 00:28:23,229 --> 00:28:26,589 Speaker 4: If my children want to go into podcasting or journalism, 608 00:28:26,709 --> 00:28:28,229 Speaker 4: I'm going to do everything. 609 00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:30,709 Speaker 3: I can to make that work. Yeah, And then that's 610 00:28:30,749 --> 00:28:31,029 Speaker 3: the thing. 611 00:28:31,189 --> 00:28:33,709 Speaker 1: If you've got the opportunity there to give your child 612 00:28:33,749 --> 00:28:35,749 Speaker 1: a leg up, should you or should you let them 613 00:28:35,749 --> 00:28:38,669 Speaker 1: struggle to get resilience? Like I think if I look 614 00:28:38,669 --> 00:28:40,669 Speaker 1: at my eye would help, I would help. I would 615 00:28:40,749 --> 00:28:42,549 Speaker 1: use whatever I have at my disposal to help my 616 00:28:42,669 --> 00:28:45,029 Speaker 1: child get ahead of course, But is that a bad 617 00:28:45,069 --> 00:28:47,909 Speaker 1: example of like bulldozer parenting where you're just clearing the 618 00:28:47,949 --> 00:28:48,509 Speaker 1: path for them? 619 00:28:48,669 --> 00:28:51,069 Speaker 4: And also, how is this different to the very cozy 620 00:28:51,349 --> 00:28:54,189 Speaker 4: notion of a family business. Yeah, we love the idea 621 00:28:54,229 --> 00:28:57,949 Speaker 4: of small businesses that are passed down from generation to generation. 622 00:28:58,109 --> 00:28:59,949 Speaker 4: We think that's a good thing when it comes to 623 00:29:00,029 --> 00:29:02,229 Speaker 4: a small business. So why does that become a bad 624 00:29:02,349 --> 00:29:03,989 Speaker 4: thing when we're talking about acting or. 625 00:29:04,029 --> 00:29:07,909 Speaker 2: Modeling family businesses? You learn from a really early age 626 00:29:08,069 --> 00:29:10,789 Speaker 2: that there are a lot of really hard work and 627 00:29:10,949 --> 00:29:13,069 Speaker 2: most of us are out here telling our kids, Hey, 628 00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:15,669 Speaker 2: life's not fair, but you've got to work hard anyway. 629 00:29:15,789 --> 00:29:17,509 Speaker 3: Can I ask, have you actually said that to your 630 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:18,869 Speaker 3: kids Life's not Yes? 631 00:29:19,149 --> 00:29:22,109 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I say it all the time. My parents said 632 00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:24,949 Speaker 2: it all the time to me, It's not fair. I'm sorry, 633 00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:27,109 Speaker 2: life's not fair, but you've just got to work hard 634 00:29:27,189 --> 00:29:30,509 Speaker 2: and show up anyway. And then along comes people who 635 00:29:30,589 --> 00:29:34,549 Speaker 2: get to skip the queue. Harper Beckham starting a skincare line. 636 00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:37,469 Speaker 2: How hard is she working on that? Is that just 637 00:29:37,629 --> 00:29:42,349 Speaker 2: savvy marketing and positioning? Is Victoria Beckham and her advisors going, Hey, 638 00:29:42,829 --> 00:29:45,029 Speaker 2: skincare for the eleven to fourteen year old market is 639 00:29:45,149 --> 00:29:50,349 Speaker 2: absolutely through the roof, Mecca, Sephora, Alta Beauty all have 640 00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:54,109 Speaker 2: specific marketing campaigns trying to get these children to buy 641 00:29:54,349 --> 00:29:58,629 Speaker 2: more products. Let's shoehorn in on that. It feels kind 642 00:29:58,669 --> 00:30:00,029 Speaker 2: of icky, it feels rigged. 643 00:30:00,309 --> 00:30:02,629 Speaker 1: That's exactly what you say about skipping the queue. 644 00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:03,389 Speaker 3: That's what it is. 645 00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:06,709 Speaker 1: Nothing makes us more annoyed than in someone pushes in 646 00:30:06,749 --> 00:30:08,989 Speaker 1: front of us, and that's what nefo babies do. 647 00:30:09,189 --> 00:30:11,509 Speaker 4: I feel like there are two types of parents, and 648 00:30:11,549 --> 00:30:13,989 Speaker 4: I'm setting aside the famous people here. There are the 649 00:30:14,069 --> 00:30:16,389 Speaker 4: parents who tell their kids' life is not fair. Yeah, 650 00:30:16,429 --> 00:30:18,269 Speaker 4: this is obviously one of them. Are you one of 651 00:30:18,349 --> 00:30:19,109 Speaker 4: those parents? 652 00:30:19,389 --> 00:30:19,749 Speaker 2: H I do? 653 00:30:20,109 --> 00:30:22,349 Speaker 3: I don't know. And then there's a second group that 654 00:30:22,509 --> 00:30:23,829 Speaker 3: is not telling their children that. 655 00:30:23,949 --> 00:30:26,309 Speaker 4: I have not told my children that Mon's I kind 656 00:30:26,349 --> 00:30:28,989 Speaker 4: of don't want them to know that until they discover 657 00:30:29,109 --> 00:30:30,229 Speaker 4: it for themselves. 658 00:30:30,509 --> 00:30:32,029 Speaker 2: And then what's going to happen when they discover it 659 00:30:32,069 --> 00:30:33,829 Speaker 2: for themselves and you haven't prepared them for that. 660 00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:36,709 Speaker 4: I guess my thinking is that if I tell my 661 00:30:36,869 --> 00:30:43,029 Speaker 4: children life is not fair, I am assuming that life 662 00:30:43,069 --> 00:30:44,109 Speaker 4: won't be fair for them. 663 00:30:44,749 --> 00:30:46,149 Speaker 3: I think it's almost superstitious. 664 00:30:46,269 --> 00:30:48,229 Speaker 4: I think if I tell them life is not fair, 665 00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:50,629 Speaker 4: then their life is not going to be fair, and 666 00:30:50,749 --> 00:30:53,029 Speaker 4: I realized there might be something irrational about that. It 667 00:30:53,149 --> 00:30:55,389 Speaker 4: just feels like too big a truth to put on children. 668 00:30:55,629 --> 00:30:57,309 Speaker 4: I just want them to discover it for themselves. 669 00:30:57,549 --> 00:30:59,189 Speaker 2: What do you say then, when they scream at you 670 00:30:59,349 --> 00:31:01,349 Speaker 2: that's not fair? What do you say? 671 00:31:01,629 --> 00:31:03,589 Speaker 4: You know? To be honest, I think you're really hitting 672 00:31:03,629 --> 00:31:06,069 Speaker 4: a nerve here, which is I'm probably one of those 673 00:31:06,229 --> 00:31:09,469 Speaker 4: bulldoze of parents who's trying to get all the impediments 674 00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:11,349 Speaker 4: out of the way, and when they scream at me 675 00:31:11,469 --> 00:31:15,509 Speaker 4: about that, my first instinct is probably to try and 676 00:31:15,589 --> 00:31:18,789 Speaker 4: fix the problem. And maybe that's why I'm protecting the 677 00:31:18,869 --> 00:31:20,109 Speaker 4: NEPO baby parents. 678 00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:23,309 Speaker 3: Oh we David and Victoria. I think that's what's happening. 679 00:31:23,469 --> 00:31:25,389 Speaker 4: I'm going to choose this moment to announce that my 680 00:31:25,549 --> 00:31:28,709 Speaker 4: daughter is launching her own skincare line for the coveted 681 00:31:28,829 --> 00:31:30,429 Speaker 4: five to seven age group. 682 00:31:30,949 --> 00:31:34,589 Speaker 3: It will leach your retinals and exfoliants. I will stay there. 683 00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:40,909 Speaker 2: Every week we bring you the things we are loving sick. 684 00:31:41,109 --> 00:31:44,429 Speaker 2: These are random little life upgrades, hacks and tidbits and 685 00:31:44,469 --> 00:31:46,429 Speaker 2: recommendations that you didn't even. 686 00:31:46,309 --> 00:31:46,909 Speaker 1: Know you needed. 687 00:31:47,709 --> 00:31:51,269 Speaker 2: And Stacy, have you noticed how much Amelia keeps us guessing, 688 00:31:51,429 --> 00:31:53,949 Speaker 2: Like some weeks it's the reject Shop, and then the 689 00:31:53,989 --> 00:31:55,749 Speaker 2: week after it's something very highbrow. 690 00:31:55,989 --> 00:31:57,149 Speaker 3: She's a mystery. 691 00:31:57,309 --> 00:32:01,829 Speaker 1: Rocks painting rocks. He's my favorite. Yeah, I never never know. 692 00:32:02,389 --> 00:32:04,149 Speaker 1: We let her surprise us every week. 693 00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:05,789 Speaker 2: What's it this week, Amelia? 694 00:32:06,229 --> 00:32:08,949 Speaker 3: This week is a little bit high brow? Oh okay, 695 00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:10,029 Speaker 3: over the whole. 696 00:32:10,949 --> 00:32:14,429 Speaker 4: I went down the New Southwlles South Coast with my 697 00:32:14,589 --> 00:32:17,309 Speaker 4: family and as everyone knows, when you get out of 698 00:32:17,389 --> 00:32:20,349 Speaker 4: the city, you look up at the night sky and 699 00:32:20,469 --> 00:32:23,629 Speaker 4: it does inspire or because you're just looking up there 700 00:32:23,869 --> 00:32:26,789 Speaker 4: at all these stars that you never see when you're 701 00:32:26,829 --> 00:32:30,829 Speaker 4: in the middle of the smog filled city. When we 702 00:32:30,909 --> 00:32:32,549 Speaker 4: were down there and we were looking at the stars, 703 00:32:32,829 --> 00:32:36,949 Speaker 4: I downloaded an app called Stellarium. It's free to use, 704 00:32:37,189 --> 00:32:39,949 Speaker 4: and it maps the constellations for you. Because I'm terrible 705 00:32:39,989 --> 00:32:42,429 Speaker 4: at the constellations. I can never actually see what they're 706 00:32:42,429 --> 00:32:42,829 Speaker 4: meant to be. 707 00:32:43,749 --> 00:32:48,069 Speaker 3: A yeah, I've got that one. 708 00:32:48,709 --> 00:32:51,629 Speaker 4: And my favorite feature of this app is it has 709 00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:55,029 Speaker 4: a tab called Star Cultures, and basically you can select 710 00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:59,549 Speaker 4: different cultures constellations, so it has very specific Polynesian and 711 00:32:59,669 --> 00:33:02,949 Speaker 4: indigenous cultures within this tab. And you can see how 712 00:33:03,149 --> 00:33:06,629 Speaker 4: even though everyone's looking at the same night sky, there've 713 00:33:06,669 --> 00:33:10,989 Speaker 4: been these wonderful and unique stories developed by different cultures 714 00:33:11,069 --> 00:33:13,109 Speaker 4: as to how to interpret them. And I just love 715 00:33:13,189 --> 00:33:15,509 Speaker 4: that idea. And the other great thing about this app 716 00:33:16,029 --> 00:33:18,829 Speaker 4: is that the animation of the constellation, so you actually 717 00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,789 Speaker 4: literally hold it up at the stars and then it 718 00:33:20,829 --> 00:33:23,669 Speaker 4: will animate the constellations that you see as you move 719 00:33:23,749 --> 00:33:24,469 Speaker 4: your phone around. 720 00:33:24,949 --> 00:33:28,749 Speaker 3: And the animations are really amazing and it just sparked 721 00:33:28,749 --> 00:33:31,429 Speaker 3: a lot of wonder in all of us, the kids 722 00:33:31,469 --> 00:33:32,789 Speaker 3: and the adults are Lol. 723 00:33:33,189 --> 00:33:37,349 Speaker 2: You had this moment outside looking at the stars, you 724 00:33:37,469 --> 00:33:40,549 Speaker 2: had to optimize it by getting your phone out. Why 725 00:33:40,669 --> 00:33:42,669 Speaker 2: don't you just look at the stars and let the 726 00:33:42,749 --> 00:33:44,789 Speaker 2: stars be stars? And then, Amelia, you're telling me that 727 00:33:44,869 --> 00:33:47,669 Speaker 2: you're looking at the stars through your phone? Are you okay? 728 00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:49,189 Speaker 3: What look? 729 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:51,909 Speaker 4: As listeners to this podcast will know, I am a 730 00:33:52,029 --> 00:33:55,149 Speaker 4: proud Type B in a collection of Type a's and 731 00:33:55,309 --> 00:33:57,749 Speaker 4: us Type bs need a little bit of help telling 732 00:33:57,949 --> 00:34:00,709 Speaker 4: exactly which the Southern Cross is. And I'm so sorry 733 00:34:00,749 --> 00:34:03,109 Speaker 4: that I can't just see it automatically when I look up, 734 00:34:03,149 --> 00:34:04,909 Speaker 4: but I wasn't a prefect. 735 00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:08,389 Speaker 2: I'm sorry to rag on your wreck. But just look 736 00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:11,949 Speaker 2: at the stars. That's the fun. You get to make 737 00:34:12,029 --> 00:34:14,029 Speaker 2: shit up. Your kids are looking at you, go, you 738 00:34:14,109 --> 00:34:15,509 Speaker 2: know what. That's the bloody pans. 739 00:34:15,549 --> 00:34:18,509 Speaker 3: That's not factually accurate. That makes me upset. 740 00:34:19,069 --> 00:34:21,029 Speaker 2: That's the dog looking down us. That's the chicken that 741 00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:23,109 Speaker 2: died last week. Like, that's the fun. 742 00:34:23,749 --> 00:34:26,269 Speaker 1: It's fun telling them that the stars are your chicken 743 00:34:26,349 --> 00:34:29,029 Speaker 1: that died last week. I'd much rather it. 744 00:34:29,189 --> 00:34:31,629 Speaker 3: Just give me a story. It's more in tune with 745 00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:35,109 Speaker 3: the natural world. She had or has chickens. I certainly 746 00:34:35,189 --> 00:34:35,789 Speaker 3: can't claim that. 747 00:34:36,029 --> 00:34:40,029 Speaker 2: No, what's your rackmonds, I have the world's best kids 748 00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:43,909 Speaker 2: book that you've never heard of. Oh's by Memphox. So 749 00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:48,109 Speaker 2: you know Memfox. She's written Possum Magic, She's written where 750 00:34:48,229 --> 00:34:52,069 Speaker 2: is the Green Sheep? It's not those There's nothing flashy 751 00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:55,589 Speaker 2: or trendy about this book whatsoever. There's no Gruffalo, there's 752 00:34:55,629 --> 00:34:58,549 Speaker 2: no bear, there's no piranhas, there's no celebrity writing it, 753 00:34:59,189 --> 00:35:01,589 Speaker 2: which is such a trend at the moment. Okay, it's 754 00:35:01,749 --> 00:35:06,709 Speaker 2: called Hanwick's Egg. It's illustrated by Pamela Lofts. Don't forget 755 00:35:06,749 --> 00:35:12,069 Speaker 2: the illustrators. It is the most beautiful melancholy story. I'm 756 00:35:12,109 --> 00:35:14,109 Speaker 2: not going to tell you what it's about. All you 757 00:35:14,229 --> 00:35:17,109 Speaker 2: need to know is this. It's so simple that you 758 00:35:17,149 --> 00:35:19,749 Speaker 2: can read it in five minutes, and it's so profound 759 00:35:19,909 --> 00:35:21,989 Speaker 2: it'll wreck you for the rest of the night. 760 00:35:22,109 --> 00:35:23,069 Speaker 3: What age is like for? 761 00:35:23,789 --> 00:35:26,429 Speaker 2: Oh, it's probably for I still read it to my 762 00:35:26,629 --> 00:35:28,229 Speaker 2: kids and they're seven. 763 00:35:28,229 --> 00:35:30,269 Speaker 3: So it's like green sheep, not gruffalo. 764 00:35:30,949 --> 00:35:35,069 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's lower primary. I guess if I ever did 765 00:35:35,149 --> 00:35:37,709 Speaker 2: a Ted talk it would be on why this is 766 00:35:37,789 --> 00:35:40,069 Speaker 2: the greatest kid's book of all time? And kids books 767 00:35:40,429 --> 00:35:43,669 Speaker 2: my Roman Empire. I am obsessed with them. I love them. 768 00:35:44,429 --> 00:35:44,749 Speaker 1: It's this. 769 00:35:44,949 --> 00:35:47,549 Speaker 2: It's Handwick's Egg, the greatest kids books of all time, 770 00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:50,469 Speaker 2: and it's somehow slipped under the radar, but not anymore. 771 00:35:50,629 --> 00:35:52,629 Speaker 2: So read it and tell me why I'm right. 772 00:35:52,709 --> 00:35:56,229 Speaker 3: I want to know. Mine is the Hey Doodle drawing Mat. 773 00:35:56,309 --> 00:35:58,629 Speaker 1: So I bought one of these in like a cute 774 00:35:58,669 --> 00:36:00,629 Speaker 1: gift shop up in the Blue Mountains, but they sell 775 00:36:00,709 --> 00:36:03,549 Speaker 1: them online and they sell them in kid stuff shops 776 00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:06,829 Speaker 1: as well. It's essentially like a drawing mat that's made 777 00:36:06,869 --> 00:36:09,429 Speaker 1: of silicon, so they do all different patterns and all 778 00:36:09,469 --> 00:36:11,989 Speaker 1: different designs on them, and you can roll them up 779 00:36:12,029 --> 00:36:14,509 Speaker 1: really tiny, like they would fit in a tiny little handbag. 780 00:36:14,669 --> 00:36:17,189 Speaker 1: With the pens that come with them, they can color 781 00:36:17,269 --> 00:36:18,549 Speaker 1: them in and then you just wipe it off with 782 00:36:18,589 --> 00:36:20,349 Speaker 1: a wet world and they can start again. 783 00:36:20,909 --> 00:36:22,149 Speaker 3: So I have a few of them. 784 00:36:22,229 --> 00:36:24,669 Speaker 1: I'm not mum. Like any cafe I go to, I 785 00:36:24,789 --> 00:36:27,189 Speaker 1: take like a canvas bag for your crab a. 786 00:36:27,909 --> 00:36:30,069 Speaker 3: I know, bring activities to the cafe. 787 00:36:30,269 --> 00:36:32,829 Speaker 1: Bring activities, but if you bought nothing else, this would 788 00:36:32,829 --> 00:36:34,429 Speaker 1: be the best one to bring because they can't like 789 00:36:34,669 --> 00:36:36,989 Speaker 1: mess anything else up with it because it just draws 790 00:36:37,029 --> 00:36:41,269 Speaker 1: on the silicon mats. Female owned Aussie business. They're really cool. 791 00:36:41,669 --> 00:36:43,669 Speaker 1: They do them for Christmas as well, like they do 792 00:36:43,749 --> 00:36:45,229 Speaker 1: all different designs. They're awesome. 793 00:36:45,429 --> 00:36:47,829 Speaker 2: Yeah. My library, my local library's got one, like a 794 00:36:47,909 --> 00:36:48,349 Speaker 2: big one. 795 00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:52,109 Speaker 4: Mine's a You a parent who brings activities to the cafe. 796 00:36:52,269 --> 00:36:53,549 Speaker 4: I already know the answer to this. 797 00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:58,069 Speaker 2: Not only that, but we have car activities too, cafe activities, Yes, 798 00:36:58,109 --> 00:37:00,269 Speaker 2: I am yep. Do you not have a box in 799 00:37:00,349 --> 00:37:02,709 Speaker 2: your car full of like delightful activities? 800 00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:07,909 Speaker 4: Jacy is our container expert, Yeah, knows all about parenting containers, 801 00:37:07,949 --> 00:37:09,549 Speaker 4: And no I don't have a box in the car. 802 00:37:09,709 --> 00:37:11,429 Speaker 3: I have an phone with apps on it. 803 00:37:11,549 --> 00:37:13,909 Speaker 1: I'll make you one and before we go, I also 804 00:37:13,989 --> 00:37:16,029 Speaker 1: wanted to throw in one more reco this week. It's 805 00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:18,389 Speaker 1: a brilliant podcast on the Mum and Mean network called 806 00:37:18,469 --> 00:37:22,549 Speaker 1: She Built That. So it's hosted Yeah, it's really cool. 807 00:37:22,589 --> 00:37:24,749 Speaker 1: It's hosted by Analys Todd and it's created as a 808 00:37:24,789 --> 00:37:27,229 Speaker 1: co listening podcast. So the aim of it is that 809 00:37:27,309 --> 00:37:29,709 Speaker 1: it's entertaining for you and entertaining for the kids. So 810 00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:32,229 Speaker 1: really good one to listen to in the car or 811 00:37:32,429 --> 00:37:34,029 Speaker 1: at night if you're doing a bit of a wine 812 00:37:34,029 --> 00:37:36,709 Speaker 1: down and don't on screen time. And in each episode 813 00:37:36,789 --> 00:37:39,749 Speaker 1: they speak to an inspiring woman. So there's one that's 814 00:37:39,789 --> 00:37:42,149 Speaker 1: like Catherine Bennell Peg so she was the first ever 815 00:37:42,349 --> 00:37:46,069 Speaker 1: Australian astronaut qualified under the Australian flag. So they talked 816 00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:49,109 Speaker 1: to all these really inspiring women, young women, a lot 817 00:37:49,149 --> 00:37:51,469 Speaker 1: of them are teens, about the kind of future they 818 00:37:51,509 --> 00:37:52,669 Speaker 1: built for themselves and it's. 819 00:37:52,509 --> 00:37:54,669 Speaker 3: Just really lovely. Yeah, very cool. 820 00:37:54,749 --> 00:37:56,869 Speaker 1: So it's called She Built That? And what age do 821 00:37:56,909 --> 00:37:59,269 Speaker 1: you think that, I'd say like school age kids, So 822 00:37:59,469 --> 00:38:00,829 Speaker 1: from you know, five onwards. 823 00:38:01,429 --> 00:38:03,109 Speaker 2: That's all we have time for this week. On parenting 824 00:38:03,149 --> 00:38:05,509 Speaker 2: out Loud and a huge thanks to all the people 825 00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:07,869 Speaker 2: that follow us and that listen every week. We love 826 00:38:07,989 --> 00:38:11,029 Speaker 2: hearing from you. I think we are still in the 827 00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:13,629 Speaker 2: early days of this show, so you're all early adopters, right, 828 00:38:13,749 --> 00:38:15,829 Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this show now, you're like 829 00:38:15,949 --> 00:38:18,789 Speaker 2: on the inner circle. And this means you should tell 830 00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:21,669 Speaker 2: people about it now before someone tells you about it. 831 00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:24,429 Speaker 2: Tell your group chat, tell your book club, be the 832 00:38:24,589 --> 00:38:27,909 Speaker 2: one who says it first, like I love I love 833 00:38:27,989 --> 00:38:31,549 Speaker 2: discovering stuff first, so you can say, hey, there's this show. 834 00:38:32,109 --> 00:38:35,349 Speaker 2: It's a lot like MoMA mea out Loud. It's for parents, 835 00:38:35,509 --> 00:38:37,469 Speaker 2: but also it's for non parents too. There's a lot 836 00:38:37,509 --> 00:38:39,949 Speaker 2: of non parents that listen. They'll say, hey, you're cool. 837 00:38:39,989 --> 00:38:42,789 Speaker 2: What's it called And you'll say, oh, it's called Parenting. 838 00:38:42,869 --> 00:38:46,909 Speaker 2: About that, you'll be like, look, it's an Out Loud 839 00:38:46,949 --> 00:38:49,269 Speaker 2: spin off. They didn't have thirty grand to spend on 840 00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:51,989 Speaker 2: a naming servers, so they just did it themselves. Okay, 841 00:38:52,149 --> 00:38:53,869 Speaker 2: and maybe they were tired and they were like, you 842 00:38:53,949 --> 00:38:55,389 Speaker 2: know what, just just call it that. 843 00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:56,709 Speaker 1: It's just good for CEO. 844 00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:59,789 Speaker 2: So that's the inner workings here. A big thanks to 845 00:38:59,829 --> 00:39:03,109 Speaker 2: the team on this show. Tessa Kotovich, Leah Porges, Sashatanic 846 00:39:03,189 --> 00:39:05,189 Speaker 2: and the group ep Is Ruth de Vine have a 847 00:39:05,229 --> 00:39:08,349 Speaker 2: great week. We'll be back in this feed next Saturday morning. 848 00:39:08,629 --> 00:39:09,509 Speaker 4: Bye bye,