Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Mom and me are out loud what women
Speaker 1: are actually talking about on Monday, the fourteenth of October.
Speaker 1: I'm me of.
Speaker 3: Friedman, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm Vannon filling in for
Speaker 3: Holly Today. You can normally hear me.
Speaker 2: On our daily entertainment podcast A Spell.
Speaker 1: And on the show today Welcome in.
Speaker 2: By the way, thank you.
Speaker 1: You were meant to be here last week, but you
Speaker 1: chucked Asiki.
Speaker 2: I chucked to Siki. I know you hate that. I
Speaker 2: noted just inspired.
Speaker 1: Were you very sick?
Speaker 2: I was properly sick.
Speaker 3: Now. I can't even say that I was probably sick
Speaker 3: because I don't sound believable.
Speaker 1: No, I trust you. Nicole Kidman and Keith Urbans teenage
Speaker 1: daughter Sunday Rose walk the runway for Me Me last week.
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian's interview with her twin daughter is going viral,
Speaker 1: but one Australian businesswoman an influencer, has taken a very
Speaker 1: different approach to how she puts her child on social
Speaker 1: media and some of her followers are weirdly angry about it.
Speaker 1: The world's number one show is about healthy relationships and
Speaker 1: loser's siblings. We're unpacking why nobody wants this has become
Speaker 1: the unexpected streaming hit of the year. And don't call
Speaker 1: me baby or mate, the iconic word that people are
Speaker 1: passionately arguing about this week after a retail worker got
Speaker 1: in trouble for using it at work, but.
Speaker 3: First in case he missed it for the first time
Speaker 3: since becoming King Charles will be visiting Australia next week
Speaker 3: and nobody wants to go to his party.
Speaker 4: Okay, King Charles is actually sick and he's coming to Australia.
Speaker 2: It caused his cancer treatment to come to Australia.
Speaker 4: Not like you last week, not like this films was anything.
Speaker 1: It feels rude. Can I just say that last time
Speaker 1: he was in Australia, or it might have been the
Speaker 1: time before, I was invited to go and meet him
Speaker 1: and Camilla.
Speaker 4: And you went, well, ye had nothing else.
Speaker 1: I curred to me to not go. I did go
Speaker 1: for a bit disloyal to Diana in a way meeting Camilla,
Speaker 1: but they were a hoot.
Speaker 3: So I've got all the excuses. So it's all the
Speaker 3: state premiers that aren't going okay to his kind of
Speaker 3: welcoming party in Canberra. So here are the excuses. So
Speaker 3: the Victorian Premier just Into Alan says she's at a
Speaker 3: cabinet meeting that day. New South Wales Premier Chris Minn
Speaker 3: says he's also at a cabinet meeting that day.
Speaker 4: Couldn't be the same cabinet meeting he.
Speaker 2: Meets the same one.
Speaker 3: South Australian Premier Peter Malanowski says he has a regional
Speaker 3: cabinet meeting that day.
Speaker 1: He can't get far off away.
Speaker 3: Queensland Premier Stephen Miles says he's too busy with campaigning
Speaker 3: for the re election.
Speaker 4: Oh that's that sounds like a stretch. That's the weakest
Speaker 4: excuse i've heard thus far.
Speaker 2: I think the best one.
Speaker 3: Tasmanian Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe is on a US trade mission,
Speaker 3: so he's actually busy, all right.
Speaker 2: He's a Western.
Speaker 3: Australia's Premier Roger Cook says he just had other commitments.
Speaker 4: Okay, even he took a leaf out of I think
Speaker 4: it's Zoe Foster Blake who's talked about this. You don't
Speaker 4: give an excuse because Charles might say it's all right,
Speaker 4: I'll go the next day when you don't have your
Speaker 4: cabinet meeting. Yeah, and then and then you're screwed, whereas
Speaker 4: this guy has gone absolutely not. I'm just out for
Speaker 4: the whole week. How about the New South Wales cabinet meeting.
Speaker 1: But that's why I went because I didn't have a
Speaker 1: cabinet meeting obviously. But I'm interested to understand what this means,
Speaker 1: because obviously all of these people could make themselves available,
Speaker 1: but they've chosen not to. Do you think that they
Speaker 1: all checked with each other, that there's a group text
Speaker 1: as a group chat, and they're all like, I'm not going,
Speaker 1: and it's all if you're not going, and I'm not going,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, if we all make excuses, then
Speaker 1: there's no attention on any one of us fight turning up.
Speaker 4: For example, if Tasmania just went, you'd look very loyalist.
Speaker 4: It would be almost a political statement to be the
Speaker 4: only one going. But I just keep thinking, this is
Speaker 4: a recurring nightmare of mind. This is why I don't
Speaker 4: have birthday parties, because I have this dream that I
Speaker 4: invite all of these people to my house and no
Speaker 4: one shows up, and poor Charles must be because remember
Speaker 4: there's humming with these coronations. He asked all the people
Speaker 4: to perform, and all of them said no.
Speaker 1: Katie pir he said, yes, if you could live inside
Speaker 1: of a cartoon, which one would it be?
Speaker 5: Barbie?
Speaker 6: And why?
Speaker 7: I really like Raquel and it's a good show and
Speaker 7: I watch it every night.
Speaker 1: I will literally be like gues, I'm a barbe Come on.
Speaker 4: Two things happened over the weekend that made me think
Speaker 4: about social media, children's faces, fame, and the choices that
Speaker 4: parents make. The first was Australian business owner Kick founder
Speaker 4: Steph clare Smith, who is mum to three year old Harvey,
Speaker 4: and over the weekend I noticed she uploaded a video
Speaker 4: of a day out with Harvey, but in that video,
Speaker 4: his face was blurred and that was the first time
Speaker 4: I'd seen her blow his face. Reacting to what must
Speaker 4: have been some criticism, she then jumped onto her stories
Speaker 4: and said that along with her husband, they've decided to
Speaker 4: no longer share Harvey's face. He has been recognized on
Speaker 4: the street by people he doesn't know and that's really
Speaker 4: confusing for him. And so from now on she said,
Speaker 4: we won't see him on her Instagram, and she has
Speaker 4: one point five million followers.
Speaker 1: We won't see him at all, or we just won't
Speaker 1: see his actual face.
Speaker 4: We won't see his face, okay, And you know, she said,
Speaker 4: a lot of people are going, oh, well, why even
Speaker 4: upload that? If I scroll back, if I Google, I
Speaker 4: can find pictures of him. So what's the difference. And
Speaker 4: to that, she said, you don't have to understand my
Speaker 4: decision or agree with it. This is what we're doing
Speaker 4: moving forward now. The next thing I saw in my
Speaker 4: Instagram feet over the weekend was reality star and business
Speaker 4: owner Kim Kardashian speaking to Interview magazine beside her eleven
Speaker 4: year old daughter Northwest. Clips from that conversation have since
Speaker 4: gone viral, which you heard at the top of the segment.
Speaker 4: Northwest was speaking about her relationship with God, how much
Speaker 4: she loves Barbie, her complicated relationship with the paparazzi, and
Speaker 4: how she can't wait to start her careers. Mostly she's
Speaker 4: brimming with business idea. She wants to have fashion label
Speaker 4: called Northwest, and the fact that she used careers plural,
Speaker 4: I think says everything about this upcoming generation. These two
Speaker 4: examples felt like such an illustrative snapshot of the tensions
Speaker 4: that currently exist in our culture around sharing images of
Speaker 4: children online and if we do share, how much at
Speaker 4: what age? And can we change our decision? M you
Speaker 4: know social media better than just about anyone. Do you
Speaker 4: have any reaction when you see either someone share images
Speaker 4: of their kids or share images with their faces blurred out?
Speaker 4: Because I've seen that increasingly as well.
Speaker 3: When I first started seeing this happen, because I think
Speaker 3: only now a lot of my friends are having children,
Speaker 3: so there's a lot of kids on my Instagram feeds.
Speaker 3: Didn't ask for them to be. Yeah, I don't follow them.
Speaker 3: I follow my friends follow Get out of my face.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants this, he said.
Speaker 3: But what I've noticed is that you know how Instagram
Speaker 3: has like a close friends options when you do your
Speaker 3: Instagram stories, I've noticed that a lot of them will
Speaker 3: blur their kids' face on their main stories or their feed,
Speaker 3: but have the normal photo without the blur on their
Speaker 3: close friends stories. And I don't know how to ask
Speaker 3: why am I allowed to see your child? And who's
Speaker 3: not allowed to see your child?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Who doesn't make it?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: These aren't famous people to be clear.
Speaker 2: No, these are like my friends who aren't famous.
Speaker 4: I've got people who are influencers who I say do
Speaker 4: the same thing. I wonder that too.
Speaker 2: I go, who are you?
Speaker 4: Who is? And I get it, like maybe they know
Speaker 4: that they've got certain journalists or they've got I mean
Speaker 4: home a journalists.
Speaker 1: But oh no, I completely understand that that's about having control,
Speaker 1: because anyone can follow you if you're not private, anyone
Speaker 1: can follow you on social media, and particularly if you
Speaker 1: need to have a public account for your job, particularly
Speaker 1: if you're an influencer, but if you're any person in
Speaker 1: the public eye. Everybody kind of needs to promote their
Speaker 1: business these days, no matter what it is, so there
Speaker 1: will always be people following you who you don't know,
Speaker 1: whereas with close friends, you can literally choose maybe that's
Speaker 1: only four people, or maybe that's forty people, but they're
Speaker 1: all people who you actually know.
Speaker 3: But what I want to know is also, if you're
Speaker 3: going to blur your kid's face, why post the photo
Speaker 3: in the first place. I think it ruins a really
Speaker 3: good photo.
Speaker 4: I have heard a few of my friends get snarky
Speaker 4: about this because they say, just don't share it. It's fine.
Speaker 4: I will defend people uploading pictures with a blurred face,
Speaker 4: because if you want to share scenes from your life,
Speaker 4: and if you're a content creator, if you've got to
Speaker 4: feed that beast, then I totally get how you want
Speaker 4: to share parts of you and what you're doing. Your
Speaker 4: child is inevitably probably in some of those images, and
Speaker 4: so blurring their face means you can still share it
Speaker 4: but not reveal their identity. And I think this is
Speaker 4: something I'm grappling with.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you can this is going to
Speaker 1: sound wrong perform your identity as a parent, and I
Speaker 1: don't mean perform has been faking, but like sharing your
Speaker 1: identity as a parent without sharing your child's actual identity exactly.
Speaker 4: And if you're a parent, then that is what your
Speaker 4: weekends look like. Like what are you meant to do?
Speaker 4: Kick them out of the photo?
Speaker 3: I was going to say, like do one photo for
Speaker 3: the family and then one I'm without the kids, so
Speaker 3: it's like you're just like in an empty high chair,
Speaker 3: like feeding nothing.
Speaker 4: I totally get it, because my tension around this has
Speaker 4: been how do we protect the images of children who
Speaker 4: can't consent to having their image shared while also having
Speaker 4: important conversations about parenting and motherhood and not erasing the
Speaker 4: experience of parenting from the public domain, Like, how do
Speaker 4: you have conversations about that without children?
Speaker 1: Well, maybe it's by blurring faces. I mean, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm now going through it again with Lunar, my granddaughter,
Speaker 1: your child, and I'm really confirmed. Well, I'm actually not
Speaker 1: conflicted about it. I'm just not going to do it.
Speaker 1: I just haven't done it. At first.
Speaker 4: I had.
Speaker 1: I didn't do it because I didn't feel that it
Speaker 1: was my right to do it, because it's up to
Speaker 1: you and Luca. Now I I feel very clearly that
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it for the same reason
Speaker 1: that I don't do it for my own children and
Speaker 1: never have. Because I have a lot of people who
Speaker 1: are following me, and not all of those people like me.
Speaker 1: Some of those people hate follow me, and I would
Speaker 1: never want to put anyone that I love in that situation.
Speaker 1: And also, my children don't want to be public people.
Speaker 1: Northwest clearly does, Sunday Rose clearly does. So she's on
Speaker 1: a catwalk. Although Nicole and Keith have almost never shared
Speaker 1: photos of their children, it's interesting now she's sixteen, she
Speaker 1: could consent and I know that's not social media that's
Speaker 1: being in the public eye. The question is what are
Speaker 1: children consenting to and are they capable of making those
Speaker 1: kinds of decisions?
Speaker 4: And I suppose too, what are parent's consenting to? Right
Speaker 4: because we don't know. It's an ever changing beast that
Speaker 4: we don't fully understand. And what I really respect about
Speaker 4: Steph klas Smith I defect and her right to change
Speaker 4: her mind about So I think that that's a one
Speaker 4: year old is different to a three year old, is
Speaker 4: different to a thirteen year old, and we're all at
Speaker 4: different stages. And I think that's the thing with parenting too,
Speaker 4: is that everyone has different values or hierarchy of values
Speaker 4: when it comes to parenting, and no judgment about what
Speaker 4: they are. Like my child is probably eating a lunch
Speaker 4: right now. That would horrify some listeners because the nutritional
Speaker 4: makeup of her lunch isn't my number one priority, right,
Speaker 4: But for other people, like if Steph Klasmith did want
Speaker 4: to share her child's face, like that's just how she's
Speaker 4: choosing to parent. And because it's so public, I think
Speaker 4: everyone then feels like they get to have an opinion
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 1: As we're all figuring it out. But the other thing
Speaker 1: is what she said, which is so relevant and I
Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about it before, is that it's a
Speaker 1: safety issue for these children. You have to teach your
Speaker 1: children about stranger danger and who you speak to in
Speaker 1: public and who's a safe person and who's not. If
Speaker 1: someone suddenly knows your name, recognize as you calls out
Speaker 1: to you in the street. You're always with a three
Speaker 1: year old, but what if you're not, Yeah, when they're
Speaker 1: a little bit older and they're waiting outside the schoolgate
Speaker 1: and someone's like, hey, Harvey, your mum told me to
Speaker 1: come and pick you up, or even just hey Harvey,
Speaker 1: can I have a selfie? And you're not there to
Speaker 1: protect to.
Speaker 4: Have Yeah, And how are you to anticipate that before
Speaker 4: it happens. That's something that I've recognized, right, Like I
Speaker 4: might have told this on the podcast before, but I
Speaker 4: was sharing images of Luna in particularly the first few
Speaker 4: months of her life. She is my entire world, so
Speaker 4: it feels like what else would I share? And a
Speaker 4: few comments popped up about I'd spoken on the podcast
Speaker 4: about her she was slow to gain weight, and a
Speaker 4: few really critical comments popped up about Luna and about
Speaker 4: how she looked. And I read those and had this
Speaker 4: fierce protective instinct of say what you want about me,
Speaker 4: but you don't get to say that about my daughter.
Speaker 4: Like I was so so horrified by that, and I
Speaker 4: never would have thought that that would happen, like, which
Speaker 4: sounds so silly because you go, well, of course people
Speaker 4: are going to be critical. If people hate you, they'll
Speaker 4: hurt your kid, but of a baby, But of a baby.
Speaker 4: It's like I had to have that experience to go
Speaker 4: all right, I am going to be forever navigating my
Speaker 4: relationship between how much I share about me and my
Speaker 4: child and all of it.
Speaker 3: If Luna becomes more recognizable when she gets older, because
Speaker 3: right now, for me, like all babies can't look the
Speaker 3: same way.
Speaker 2: I understand.
Speaker 4: I agree with you.
Speaker 3: I understand the change like showing your baby and then
Speaker 3: it becomes recognizable. So then you stop, do you reckon
Speaker 3: or stop showing her.
Speaker 4: We've talked before about leaking intimacy and having moments. You know,
Speaker 4: my phone is just photos and videos of Luna that
Speaker 4: are being sent to family all the time.
Speaker 1: And we're content creators. Yeah, so it's it's challenging, right
Speaker 1: because you're like, this is a funny story, this is
Speaker 1: a cute video. We all try to show up on
Speaker 1: social in an authentic way. And it often strikes me
Speaker 1: that my children and now Luna are my whole world,
Speaker 1: and I don't put any of them on social at all.
Speaker 1: But we're sort of talking about the downside of it.
Speaker 1: The other side of it is just that when you're
Speaker 1: on social media, whether you have a big following or
Speaker 1: whether you don't, people do have a parasocial relationship with you, right,
Speaker 1: And that is a weird thing to come to terms
Speaker 1: with and to process. And we're all still doing it
Speaker 1: like that. People feel that they know us because they
Speaker 1: do know us, because we put a lot of ourselves
Speaker 1: out there, whether it's on this show or on our socials.
Speaker 1: But that is a very big burden to give a child,
Speaker 1: because the person who wants a selfie might not be
Speaker 1: a kidnapper. They might just want a selfie. But that's weird,
Speaker 1: Like it's not a decision that they ever made out,
Speaker 1: it's just a bit of a head scrap.
Speaker 4: I suppose is that if you are a public figure,
Speaker 4: then there's an element of that happening anyway. Right, you're
Speaker 4: walking down the street and people go, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 4: Hamish Blake, and if you're with your kids, then suddenly
Speaker 4: they're thrust into the spotlight. And we know Northwest is
Speaker 4: talking about being happed, like these children are also being
Speaker 4: photographed without their permission. For the lacks of Northwest. I
Speaker 4: was thinking, yeah, she was in Vogue at one, but
Speaker 4: also her life has been the stuff of a reality
Speaker 4: television show since she was born, so she's of course yeah.
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to watch that video and
Speaker 1: read that interview. And she's on the cover of this
Speaker 1: magazine and she's eleven, right, and one of the quotes
Speaker 1: or one of the you know, it was her mother
Speaker 1: doing the interview. But I felt very this sounds like
Speaker 1: concern trolling. But the stuff you say at eleven, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you want that immortalized. Like she says
Speaker 1: some pretty full on stuff about God and about the
Speaker 1: devil and her siblings, and you know, even some of
Speaker 1: the more innocuous stuff. Kim says to her, what do
Speaker 1: you want to be when you grow up? And north says,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I already do a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that I want to be when I grow up.
Speaker 1: I just want to pursue my careers now, and then
Speaker 1: Kim says, that's amazing that you know so young. What
Speaker 1: would be your fake name? This is the family business.
Speaker 1: The family business is reality TV, it's selling product, it's
Speaker 1: having all these kinds of opportunities because of your name.
Speaker 1: And she sees her whole family work really hard as well,
Speaker 1: but they exist in front of the camera. She's never
Speaker 1: known anything else, and so does her father.
Speaker 2: I saw as well.
Speaker 4: Just recently, Saint, who's the I think next youngest maybe
Speaker 4: got a YouTube account and Kim Kardashin had Saint sign
Speaker 4: a contract that she shared, you know, all the accounts,
Speaker 4: even Kim and North. The TikTok account is definitely overseen
Speaker 4: by an adult, you can tell. And it's pretty harmless stuff.
Speaker 4: But when you're a parent, I think that you assume
Speaker 4: that everyone will love your child as much as you
Speaker 4: do because you see something very different to what the
Speaker 4: rest of the world sees. So when I was sharing
Speaker 4: those images of Luna, I was like, can you even believe.
Speaker 1: I have had the most breathtaking childs? And there people
Speaker 1: like she looks like a potato.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I feel like this is the whole universe
Speaker 4: in an image. Can you believe anything has ever been
Speaker 4: this cute? And the thing about the world is that
Speaker 4: they are simply not looking at the same photograph. And
Speaker 4: so even Northwest I've seen. Do you remember recently the
Speaker 4: Lion King the she performed in the Music Hall and
Speaker 4: there was a Lion King clip and then that went
Speaker 4: viral because a lot of people went, well, I think
Speaker 4: that it's nepotism that she got this role and it
Speaker 4: was a terrible performance, and listened to her voice.
Speaker 1: I felt the same way about Sunday Rose Kidman Urban
Speaker 1: who opened the show for Meumu. Now, she's a girl
Speaker 1: who was always the minute she was on a red carpet,
Speaker 1: and I noticed that Nicole had heard two daughters when
Speaker 1: she was inducted into a Hall of Fame for something recently,
Speaker 1: she had her two daughters on the red carpet with
Speaker 1: her for the first time, along with her sister and
Speaker 1: her niece. I was like, Oh, those girls are going
Speaker 1: to be models in a hot second, because they're tall,
Speaker 1: they're beautiful, they're like all of those things. But to
Speaker 1: open a Mewmu show, that is a big friggin deal.
Speaker 1: And I get that she's sixteen. What an amazing opportunity,
Speaker 1: but she got absolutely slammed because that's what the internet is, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there are going to be people who are going to
Speaker 1: be lovely, but most of the people who are going
Speaker 1: to comment are going to say horrible things. Oh that's
Speaker 1: a big thing to expose your child too. So as
Speaker 1: a parent, how do you balance that between here's this
Speaker 1: amazing opportunity, Yeah, what am I exposing them to?
Speaker 3: Because it has to come out one way, right, So
Speaker 3: is it better to come out as an eleven year
Speaker 3: old or as a sixteen year old? Like even with
Speaker 3: the Northwest stuff. I was watching that interview, and everything
Speaker 3: she says, in my eyes, seemed fine for an eleven
Speaker 3: year old to say, because all eleven year olds are notissist, Like,
Speaker 3: that's something.
Speaker 2: I would have said. I would have said the exact
Speaker 2: same thing.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to do my careers, except my mom
Speaker 3: would have been like, that's my sweetie. We is like
Speaker 3: tell me more like she's like indulging that behavior.
Speaker 4: It's trademarket.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's the biggest difference, where they've
Speaker 3: been sheltered and then suddenly they want to do something
Speaker 3: and the parent has to decide should I do it
Speaker 3: now or should I wait a bit later, Like when
Speaker 3: will be the strongest point in their life that they
Speaker 3: can have this feedback come back.
Speaker 4: And let's not pretend that we're not marinating in a
Speaker 4: culture where having a public presence isn't something most people want,
Speaker 4: even at eleven, like the thing about Northwest, even watching
Speaker 4: that Northwest wants to be on camera. And I've heard
Speaker 4: a lot of people say this about content creators going.
Speaker 4: My five year old loves it, like we have all
Speaker 4: this time together. And I know that it can to
Speaker 4: some people it might look a bit dangerous, but there
Speaker 4: are very few jobs that allow parent to spend time
Speaker 4: with their child while also making money to make homemaking
Speaker 4: or like what's happening inside the house monetized.
Speaker 1: What's tricky is I came up in the Internet at
Speaker 1: the time of mummy bloggers that and it was an
Speaker 1: amazing time. And it was the first time that women's
Speaker 1: roles as parents were visible, and that was a beautiful
Speaker 1: thing and it helped so many people will feel seen
Speaker 1: and also the people express themselves. But the toll on
Speaker 1: those children when the Internet flipped and needed you to
Speaker 1: make money, make branded content, you know, Heather Armstrong was
Speaker 1: very famously probably the og mummy blogger, and she had
Speaker 1: a blog called Douce and she used to write so
Speaker 1: incredibly about her children and parenting and she was such
Speaker 1: a funny writer. But then when she had to do
Speaker 1: branded content, she was like, my kids hate having to
Speaker 1: do this and perform and talk about this brand or
Speaker 1: go in this car or and she was really torn
Speaker 1: and she had to give it up because they just
Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. And I was listening to
Speaker 1: a podcast interview with a YouTube family creator who made
Speaker 1: the same decision. But it's hard to walk away from
Speaker 1: all of that money. And the money is also you know,
Speaker 1: it was going to pay for their college and becomes
Speaker 1: a way to support the family.
Speaker 4: Your life, your work can be a lot more flexible,
Speaker 4: You get to spend more time with the people you
Speaker 4: want to spend more time with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so those decisions come even harder when money is involved.
Speaker 1: And you might feel one way that I don't want
Speaker 1: to show my child's face, but then you get this opportunity, well,
Speaker 1: we're going to pay you ten thousand dollars if you
Speaker 1: do this thing for this brand with your child in it.
Speaker 1: And then you say well, that ten thousand.
Speaker 4: Dollars could means I work one less daal Ware.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and I can be with my child more or Yeah,
Speaker 1: the opportunities that it brings you. So there's no easy answer.
Speaker 1: I think what I love about Steph klas Smith is
Speaker 1: that she's figuring it out.
Speaker 4: And I also resent that in this whole conversation the
Speaker 4: people we ever talk about are mother's. I have never
Speaker 4: heard or even seen a comment about a father. Sharing
Speaker 4: a picture of the child is just applause that you're
Speaker 4: spending good time with them. Out Louders let us know
Speaker 4: what you think. You can jump into the out Loud
Speaker 4: Facebook group. You can send us a voice note and
Speaker 4: send it to out loud at mummeat dot com dot au.
Speaker 4: We always love your feedback and if you want to
Speaker 4: hear more from Steph Klaire Smith, there is a brilliant
Speaker 4: episode of but Are You Happy? You can listen to
Speaker 4: that by clicking on the link in the show notes.
Speaker 6: You should be.
Speaker 4: Diating hot Rabbi.
Speaker 1: We definitely are a week.
Speaker 4: I just heard him introduce you as his friend.
Speaker 8: You're going to turn your whole left wepsode down fantastic.
Speaker 8: You're never going to end that with my son.
Speaker 1: On the weekend, it was announced that the Netflix rom
Speaker 1: com Nobody Wants This is going to have a second
Speaker 1: season after the first season has been the number one
Speaker 1: show in the streaming world for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: It stars Adam Brody who was I Didn't watch the
Speaker 1: Open and Seth Cohen. He plays Noah, a cool La
Speaker 1: rabbi who falls in love with an agnostic podcast host
Speaker 1: called Joanne played by Kristen Bell.
Speaker 2: Is a millennial's wet dream.
Speaker 1: Joanne isn't Jewish, but the show is about how love
Speaker 1: conquers all, or maybe it doesn't. It was created by
Speaker 1: Aaron Foster, who, like Joanne, hosts a podcast with her
Speaker 1: sister and married a Jewish guy despite not being Jewish herself.
Speaker 1: And there are two big themes in the show that
Speaker 1: we think has contributed to its breakthrough global success, and
Speaker 1: we wanted to unpack them today. Will there be spoilers?
Speaker 1: Not really, This isn't really about the show.
Speaker 4: Itself, because I will speak from the perspective I've got
Speaker 4: two episodes to go, and so I will not have
Speaker 4: it spoiled. I still don't know, will they won't they?
Speaker 4: I don't have the answer yet, so you know, no
Speaker 4: spoilers from you to a challenge.
Speaker 1: Okay, not really because anyway, I won't spoil it. The
Speaker 1: first theme of this show, why people are saying that
Speaker 1: it's really cut through, is that it depicts the idea
Speaker 1: of healthy relationships, or more importantly, it flips the script
Speaker 1: on the usual girl chasers guy who doesn't want to
Speaker 1: commit stereotype by portraying this very securely attached guy Noah
Speaker 1: who's trying to pin down an avoidant woman Joanne, who
Speaker 1: is a bit of a fuck up. And it also
Speaker 1: has a great subplot of the main character's siblings, and
Speaker 1: this is the second sort of theme we wanted to explore.
Speaker 1: Noah's brother and Joe and sister call themselves loser siblings,
Speaker 1: and they make a group chat between the two of
Speaker 1: them called.
Speaker 8: That having siblings is hard, especially when one sibling is
Speaker 8: the clear loser. You may be suffering from losers siblings syndrome.
Speaker 8: If your sibling cringed in school when teachers asked if
Speaker 8: the two of you were related, your sibling jokes that
Speaker 8: you'll have to live in their basement one day. There's
Speaker 8: a secret family group chat that you're not a part
Speaker 8: of you did it yet another walking red flag, and
Speaker 8: instead of being surprised, your family says, that's so you
Speaker 8: you were born the middle child. Sound familiar, we thought.
Speaker 1: So that's been so successful that TikTok is demanding the
Speaker 1: loser siblings, who are Justine Loop who plays Morgan and
Speaker 1: Timothy Simons who plays Sasha, have their own show because
Speaker 1: they want to what happens with them. I actually, funnily enough,
Speaker 1: did an episode of No Filter this week about attachment
Speaker 1: theory and this idea of the secure attachment style and
Speaker 1: all the other attachment styles. There are three others, and
Speaker 1: the secure is the most healthy, but it's not shown
Speaker 1: in rom coms very.
Speaker 4: Much ever, and it's not ever shown in even like
Speaker 4: fiction movies, rom coms because in order for there to
Speaker 4: be a complication, that complication often has to be internal.
Speaker 4: So there are all these roadblocks, so someone is anxiously
Speaker 4: attached or avoidant, and so you have one chasing like
Speaker 4: a cat and mouse situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: What was genius about this was that the complication which
Speaker 4: is required in order to sustain a ten episode.
Speaker 1: And ten episodes is long.
Speaker 4: It's long. All the complications were external. They were the
Speaker 4: fact that he is Jewish and he's around.
Speaker 1: He didn't approve, His family didn't approve, her sister didn't approve.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So actually their relationship from the beginning, and what
Speaker 4: I thought was so appealing about it was that I went,
Speaker 4: that is what it's like meeting your person, like when
Speaker 4: you fall in love. I'm sure this isn't universal, but
Speaker 4: in my experience when I fell in love, it became
Speaker 4: very uncomplicated internally. There wasn't will he text. You know,
Speaker 4: we've just seen the phenomenon of it ends with us,
Speaker 4: where there's all this really toxic behavior that toxic stuff
Speaker 4: for you know, healthy relationships often evaporates. And this became
Speaker 4: like a bingo card of green flax of all the
Speaker 4: things that when you see in someone, like organizing the date,
Speaker 4: being emotionally available, apologizing, went last stuff up, not lying,
Speaker 4: not hiding things, not hiding things.
Speaker 1: All of it transparent.
Speaker 4: Was like a guidebook. There's this article going around about
Speaker 4: a different movie and kind of praise kink. This is
Speaker 4: like healthy relationship kink in terms of the woman who
Speaker 4: just wants someone who is stay predictable clearly is really
Speaker 4: into her. Yeah, And there's a complication because otherwise we
Speaker 4: wouldn't watch it. But it's all external.
Speaker 2: Does that actually exist though in real life? Like that's secure?
Speaker 3: Like I've never once met a secure person In relationships,
Speaker 3: I feel like there's always and always am anxious, like
Speaker 3: someone's always chasing, someone always likes the other person a
Speaker 3: little bit more.
Speaker 1: Yes, but you don't have to be avoidant. I think
Speaker 1: that in this I said that Joanne was avoidant. She
Speaker 1: you're right, Aunt Jesse. She's not actually avoidant, but she's complicated,
Speaker 1: complicated and she doesn't know, but you're right. They just
Speaker 1: want to be together.
Speaker 4: Early on in the series, she has this moment where
Speaker 4: she says, I'm terrified I'm too much, that I'm going
Speaker 4: to say I want you, that I'm going to have
Speaker 4: to rely on someone, and that You're going to say
Speaker 4: I'm too much. And I was reading this review that said,
Speaker 4: you know, millions of women around the world have had
Speaker 4: that exact dialogue where they've tried to sustain their own
Speaker 4: sort of independence because they don't want to be porous
Speaker 4: and they don't want to rely on someone because they're
Speaker 4: terrified of being let down. And in this case, the
Speaker 4: show was almost showing the stability of Adam Brady.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that. My favorite line in the
Speaker 1: whole thing, the one that just made me melt, was
Speaker 1: when he said I can handle you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh.
Speaker 4: I think as well that what you say about the
Speaker 4: loser siblings. The gold for me was also the relationship
Speaker 4: between the sisters. I think there are a few things funnier,
Speaker 4: you know this m than the relationship between sisters, Like
Speaker 4: it is so nuanced and so weird and so perfectly
Speaker 4: written that for a lot of women we also saw
Speaker 4: it was.
Speaker 1: The sister relationship well written, as you both have sisters
Speaker 1: and I don't.
Speaker 3: And I think the reason they made them sisters was
Speaker 3: because if they were best friends and they had like
Speaker 3: their big fights, I don't think they could have convinced
Speaker 3: us that they would make up so quickly, whereas with
Speaker 3: sisters you always make up.
Speaker 4: In the same conversation, in the same conversation.
Speaker 2: But do you want to go just watch a movie?
Speaker 4: The chemistry as well, like everyone's talking about how this
Speaker 4: chemistry just exploded and the kiss, and you know, they're
Speaker 4: both obviously very attractive. Interestingly, they're totally ageless, like they
Speaker 4: don't give any indications of how old they are marriage.
Speaker 4: Babies don't really come up other than the Jewish thing.
Speaker 4: But the chemistry for me came from the humor, like
Speaker 4: they just had exactly the same sense of humor, and
Speaker 4: that was the hottest thing. The banter, the banter that
Speaker 4: kind of went back and forth. And the podcasting I
Speaker 4: thought was funny because Sex and City is obviously like
Speaker 4: the kind of sitcom that every millennial gen X woman
Speaker 4: is obsessed with, and that was the column. The rom
Speaker 4: com has this device of like even how to Lose
Speaker 4: a Guy in Ten Days, where it's the column and
Speaker 4: you're writing and you're living and you're reflecting and you're funny.
Speaker 1: It's the career girl of the moment, what's her job?
Speaker 4: Yes? And in this it was basically call her.
Speaker 1: Day, yes, except with two of them. And it's funny
Speaker 1: because I went and listened to their actual podcast, which
Speaker 1: is shambolish, like it's not it made me feel good
Speaker 1: about us in terms of how organized we are, but
Speaker 1: it is actually a very accurate depiction and they are
Speaker 1: just like wandering off and going to the bathroom and eating.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think they've got a whole
Speaker 1: lot more listeners now and everyone now, but it's still
Speaker 1: as completely shambala and disorganize. But they were saying that
Speaker 1: one of the criticisms of the series is, oh, as
Speaker 1: if you could make enough money to support yourself by
Speaker 1: having this shambolic podcast, and they were like, we do,
Speaker 1: and we have, as they threw to one of their
Speaker 1: seventeen hours, and you actually wrote a story for Mum
Speaker 1: and mea that was about another issue that you found
Speaker 1: really poignant when you watch this show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is exactly the relationship we were talking about before,
Speaker 3: the relationship between Joanne and Morgan, the sisters. When you
Speaker 3: see Joanne kind of just swept away into this relationship
Speaker 3: and Justine access so well because you can see the
Speaker 3: cogs in her brain like as she's acting this out
Speaker 3: of like watching your person find their person and seeing
Speaker 3: yourself slowly loose them, the sense of loss and the
Speaker 3: sense of loss and you can't be upset because it's
Speaker 3: not like you were in a relationship with them, and
Speaker 3: you have to be happy for them because you want
Speaker 3: them to be happy. And it's one of those situations
Speaker 3: where it's happened to me so many times where like
Speaker 3: I've had my best friend and then she falls in
Speaker 3: love and I see her slowly like stepping out of
Speaker 3: my life in weird ways, like finding out like oh,
Speaker 3: I'm not your emergency contact anymore, or like oh, you
Speaker 3: don't have me on find my friends anymore. And I'm
Speaker 3: meant to be okay with that. And I don't even
Speaker 3: get the breakup. Yeah, Like I just get.
Speaker 2: The slow goo.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. That's a little bit like when your
Speaker 1: child grows up and falls in love and moves away
Speaker 1: from me. It's a little bit like when Luca found you, Jesse.
Speaker 1: Not such a sense the sense of loss was maybe
Speaker 1: was smaller for me. There was also the beautiful sense
Speaker 1: of gain of watching your person be loved in the
Speaker 1: way that you think they deserve to be loved. That's beautiful.
Speaker 4: I certainly had that with Claire, like when she met
Speaker 4: her person a lot younger than I did. It was
Speaker 4: this me of grief and joy, like this bizarre, bizarre mix.
Speaker 3: And I think that's why I was impressed they made
Speaker 3: them sisters, because even being that single best friend, you know,
Speaker 3: there are certain things you can't say without it sounding
Speaker 3: like you're the sad single best friend, Like you can't
Speaker 3: comment on their partner if you didn't like something they said,
Speaker 3: because then you're jealous. You're automatically you're a jealous person
Speaker 3: who just wants to be in a relationship. I'm having
Speaker 3: a sad dating app with your sister or with friends
Speaker 3: with friends, it's happened with friends. I think there's too
Speaker 3: much of an age gap between me and my sister.
Speaker 3: But when they were having that fight and Joanne said
Speaker 3: it's like, not my fault, you're still un stuck on
Speaker 3: the sad dating apps, that hit something in me.
Speaker 1: Oh that was that was a deep cart.
Speaker 3: Because I feel like when you're talking about like the
Speaker 3: dating app stage of life, a lot of people see
Speaker 3: that as a phase, and I'm like, some women have
Speaker 3: been on dating apps the entire like dating life.
Speaker 7: And there's a smugness of like I graduated, I got out, Yeah,
Speaker 7: and you're still stuck. Like that hit a nerve and
Speaker 7: I was like so happy that that blew up for them,
Speaker 7: Like that was like the catalyst.
Speaker 1: Because you felt defensive. Yeah, out louder is if you
Speaker 1: want to hear more about attachment styles and what yours
Speaker 1: might be, plus what it says about you. Guess what,
Speaker 1: I'm not one of the functional ones. There's only one
Speaker 1: functional one and I'm not have a Listen to today's
Speaker 1: episode of No Filter when you can hear my conversation
Speaker 1: with doctor Morgan Anderson, who is an expert on attachment theory.
Speaker 1: There is a link in the show notes.
Speaker 4: And what do you think you are?
Speaker 2: What attachment style?
Speaker 3: I've been told by a man I think you said
Speaker 3: to me? Have you always been an avoidant?
Speaker 1: So the four styles are secure, avoidant, anxious, and disorganized?
Speaker 2: Which one's the worst?
Speaker 1: Is there?
Speaker 2: Avoidant?
Speaker 1: Secure is the only one you want to be. That's
Speaker 1: where we're all aiming to be. It's at the top
Speaker 1: of the leaderboard, something to work towards.
Speaker 4: If you want to know what Holly and I are,
Speaker 4: you can listen to tomorrow's subscribe episode where look, we
Speaker 4: took a quiz and we had some insights and we
Speaker 4: had there was a bit of soul searching, So you
Speaker 4: can listen to that tomorrow. Wan unlimited out loud access.
Speaker 4: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum
Speaker 4: and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes
Speaker 4: to get us in your ears five days a week.
Speaker 4: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 6: Nate May why hey me your mate? Mate?
Speaker 5: Thanks?
Speaker 9: Mate?
Speaker 1: Look mate?
Speaker 8: No, you look mate.
Speaker 3: A father of a retail worker went on Reddit to
Speaker 3: ask if calling someone mate was now offensive. So he
Speaker 3: said that his daughter called the customer mate, and towards
Speaker 3: the end of their interaction, the customer said, can I
Speaker 3: tell you something? Please don't call me mate. His daughter
Speaker 3: Dan apologized and said, I'm sorry if I've offended you.
Speaker 3: The customer said it's unprofessional to use that word in
Speaker 3: the workplace. He said that his daughter was pretty sure
Speaker 3: the customer was Australian and has now kind of spiraled
Speaker 3: and has like stopped using any sort of like langui customers.
Speaker 3: So I went onto this Reddit post and I was
Speaker 3: looking at all of the comments, and a lot of
Speaker 3: them were quite shocked that someone said that it's offensive,
Speaker 3: like don't call me mate. But there were few people
Speaker 3: who did say that it's not offensive, but it is unprofessional. Jesse,
Speaker 3: what goes through your mind and someone' say hey mate,
Speaker 3: how are you going?
Speaker 4: It is so neutral to me that I don't even
Speaker 4: hear it. I absolutely use it in the workplace. I
Speaker 4: used to work behind a bar for years and years
Speaker 4: always said mate, I like it because it's gender neutral,
Speaker 4: a concert to men.
Speaker 2: And women, so you say mate to women.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I wonder if one of the reasons
Speaker 4: if I have got this gender dynamic, correct, did an
Speaker 4: older man not like being called mate by a younger woman?
Speaker 4: And is it because the word mate infers equality? And
Speaker 4: that's why I think that it's uniquely Australian because everyone's
Speaker 4: your mate. It kind of suggests that there's no hierarchy,
Speaker 4: that we're all on the same level.
Speaker 1: And there are some thought she should have been subservient.
Speaker 4: Yes, I wonder if that's what it was about, that
Speaker 4: he should have been sir or something that kind of.
Speaker 1: My king, my king, that it was too informal.
Speaker 4: It was too informal, and that she should because sometimes
Speaker 4: they teach you. I remember it when I worked at
Speaker 4: this pub. It was they wanted you to say sir
Speaker 4: and Ma'm like as a way of.
Speaker 2: At the pub at the pub, and I was like, I.
Speaker 4: Will, over my dead body, I will just not be referring.
Speaker 4: And I also think it makes people feel old and
Speaker 4: I think I just.
Speaker 2: Think someone younger than you exactly.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I see it in the eyes of people who
Speaker 4: are like giving you a coffee or whatever, where they
Speaker 4: choose whether they're going to go with you know, dull, ma'm.
Speaker 1: Pet pet petal love sweetheart.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't think we should be choosing spur of
Speaker 4: the moment. I think it makes people feel judged. I
Speaker 4: think we just go mate.
Speaker 1: Eating mates a safe bet.
Speaker 4: I think it's safe.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the word mate and how its
Speaker 1: versatility is possibly what can make it problematic, because how
Speaker 1: it's intended might not be how it's received. So tone
Speaker 1: and setting and subject all these things can completely alter
Speaker 1: the definition of the words. So you can call your
Speaker 1: best friend mate with great affection, right, So that's the
Speaker 1: way I think most people would be thinking about it
Speaker 1: in this context, like mate, have you been? You know?
Speaker 1: But you can also address a complete stranger as mate
Speaker 1: in an unfamiliar encounter, particularly if you don't know their name,
Speaker 1: if you've forgot their name. Mate or babe are the
Speaker 1: two easy ones.
Speaker 4: Yep. Luca has said to me before, actually we've been
Speaker 4: doing exciting at home and I've gone something like listen here,
Speaker 4: like just use the word mate to Luca, and he
Speaker 4: has said that gives me that he really doesn't like
Speaker 4: it in a romantic relationship. Because it is.
Speaker 1: It's quite snarky.
Speaker 4: It's snarky, but it's also very unsexual. Yeah, like, that's true.
Speaker 4: It's a little bit distant.
Speaker 1: Do you use it? But there's other ways. I've got
Speaker 1: more ways. It can be a complete sentence like may
Speaker 1: like that's almost. That can also convey exasperation. And then
Speaker 1: if you say it like bead ly, like with a
Speaker 1: bit of a snap in your voice, it can make
Speaker 1: it very clear that you're pissed off, like mate, you're
Speaker 1: in my car spot. Yeah, yeah, anyone said that to me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just yesterday.
Speaker 4: It feels more aggressive than if they said you're in
Speaker 4: my car correct. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And then old mate maybe she called him old mate
Speaker 1: even like that. I actually like old mate. And then
Speaker 1: when we often will say to Holly or you, like
Speaker 1: if I'm talking about Jordan Peterson, I'll go, your mate
Speaker 1: is in the need, which is like.
Speaker 2: Figure out.
Speaker 1: So there's so many different ways to use it, and
Speaker 1: that's why I think maybe it can be misinterpreted. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm similar to Luca.
Speaker 3: I never use the word mate. I hate it, but
Speaker 3: I will use the word mate when I'm talking to
Speaker 3: certain men to make sure that they know I don't
Speaker 3: want to have sex with them.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Okay, play that out. How does it work? Well?
Speaker 3: If a guy comes up to me and he's like, hey,
Speaker 3: can I buy you a drink or anything?
Speaker 2: No thanks, mate?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a very no.
Speaker 1: This is platonic. Yeah, because if you just went no thanks,
Speaker 1: it would thank you. It would open'd be like, oh
Speaker 1: can I get you something out? I love it when
Speaker 1: men call me mate, really, I really do. I also
Speaker 1: like the women call me mate.
Speaker 4: What's friendly?
Speaker 1: When my kids called me mate, they're taking the pierce.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, you're right mate, our executive producer who
Speaker 4: I think this context is important because we are missing
Speaker 4: the British perspective in Hollywood. I think you should give
Speaker 4: a Monsurian accent. She was saying that when she first
Speaker 4: got to Australia she found it aggressive, that it was
Speaker 4: something that in a different context can feel like, hey, mate,
Speaker 4: can just feel like I guess it can feel quite
Speaker 4: bloky and aggressive. I can kind of see how that would.
Speaker 1: It can be a bit like the precursor to some
Speaker 1: biffo like yeah, like it can almost be an insult,
Speaker 1: like an aggressive challenge to someone.
Speaker 4: But the ones I'm hearing a lot lately, are hey boss?
Speaker 4: Do you hear this like I hear it at the gym?
Speaker 1: Queen? My daughter calls me queen.
Speaker 2: That's so cute.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know like, I don't care, Like I'll just
Speaker 1: be called anything.
Speaker 4: How about hate Chapman, Buddy?
Speaker 1: I like buddy.
Speaker 2: I think buddy, Hey Buddy, Hi buddy, buddy.
Speaker 4: Kids Reddit thread said why don't you just call them friend? Hey? Friends?
Speaker 1: I say that sometimes. I'll say hey friend if I
Speaker 1: can't remember someone's name, often to.
Speaker 4: The person at the cafe or the.
Speaker 1: No, but someone who I'm familiar with. Actually, not just
Speaker 1: people that I say sweet. I don't say a lot,
Speaker 1: hey sweetie, hey friend. I'll say hey friend. That's like
Speaker 1: an affectionate.
Speaker 4: What's your term of endearment for the lovely person behind
Speaker 4: the counter when you're doing your grocery shopping? What do
Speaker 4: you call them?
Speaker 1: Thanks? Your a legend. I'll call them. I use them
Speaker 1: like a noun, like a legend. I won't say mate, No,
Speaker 1: I won't say buddy. I won't say I say you're
Speaker 1: a babe.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I won't call them anything. I don't know. I've got
Speaker 1: a friend who calls waiters darling. Female waiters I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I think she's never been a
Speaker 1: waiter and I have been.
Speaker 4: I don't hate it.
Speaker 1: You don't like you don't want darling?
Speaker 4: Darling? Well, it depends on the tone and whether or
Speaker 4: not it's condescending. But if they're being complimentary, I'm happy
Speaker 4: for them to call me anything.
Speaker 1: But yeah, oh no, I don't mind. I use that
Speaker 1: as a term of affection too.
Speaker 4: As the boss in this room. Yeah, is it unprofessional?
Speaker 4: If I was using mate a lot in the workplace
Speaker 4: in meetings?
Speaker 3: There was a time where you hated when we said, dude,
Speaker 3: do you remember that, you made like a full announcement
Speaker 3: stop calling people too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 1: I was someone who once started working here and had
Speaker 1: just met me started calling me bestie my time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think language is fun. I like people to play
Speaker 1: with language.
Speaker 3: So we ask people in the mumumme office who've moved
Speaker 3: to Australia some of the phrases they did not understand.
Speaker 2: Here's what they said.
Speaker 6: My favorite Australian scene, possibly my favorite scene hands down
Speaker 6: from anywhere, is I'm not here to fox fiders because
Speaker 6: it makes sense, but at the same time, it actually
Speaker 6: makes a lot of sense. And I'm also just waiting
Speaker 6: to finally meet the cherson who actually is here for
Speaker 6: fuck spiders. That would be a very special day for me.
Speaker 9: So when I first moved to Australia from New Zealand,
Speaker 9: we would always go to barbacues and drinks with a chiliban,
Speaker 9: and so I'd be telling everyone to put everything in
Speaker 9: the chiliban, or like where's beer? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 9: in the chiliban and you call it eski here, which
Speaker 9: is actually after the brand where there. We're quite literal
Speaker 9: on New Zealand, and we call it a chili ban,
Speaker 9: so something that you get chilled under them.
Speaker 5: Okay. So when I first moved to Australia, some very
Speaker 5: lovely mums at the school gates said, you know, come over.
Speaker 5: I got a few people coming. Bring a plate. I
Speaker 5: thought this was a little strange. I was like, I
Speaker 5: can bring a plate. I will bring a plate. But
Speaker 5: then I was like, do I put food on the plate?
Speaker 9: Surely not.
Speaker 5: I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I turned up.
Speaker 5: I had a pack of emergency Sos tim Tams in
Speaker 5: my bag, but I also had a plate just in case,
Speaker 5: and I've got lots of expat friends here who have
Speaker 5: all confessed the.
Speaker 1: Same We had no idea. Out Louders, I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: got your own head to the Outlauders Facebook group and
Speaker 1: share them with us. That's it from us today, out Louders.
Speaker 1: We could go on, but our producers are hovering with
Speaker 1: a taser to stop us talking.
Speaker 4: Good luck, out louders. If you enjoyed Amelia Lester on
Speaker 4: the show last week, then you'll probably love our US
Speaker 4: election subscriber episodes. I learned so much about Milania Trump
Speaker 4: because Amelia, of course sat down and read the whole
Speaker 4: book beginning to end. So if you want to hear that,
Speaker 4: there's a link to that episode in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Bye. Shout out to any Muma Mia subscribers listening. If
Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well,
Speaker 1: subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode
Speaker 1: description