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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Mom and me are out loud what women

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Speaker 1: are actually talking about on Monday, the fourteenth of October.

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Speaker 1: I'm me of.

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Speaker 3: Friedman, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm Vannon filling in for

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Speaker 3: Holly Today. You can normally hear me.

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Speaker 2: On our daily entertainment podcast A Spell.

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Speaker 1: And on the show today Welcome in.

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Speaker 2: By the way, thank you.

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Speaker 1: You were meant to be here last week, but you

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Speaker 1: chucked Asiki.

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Speaker 2: I chucked to Siki. I know you hate that. I

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Speaker 2: noted just inspired.

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Speaker 1: Were you very sick?

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Speaker 2: I was properly sick.

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Speaker 3: Now. I can't even say that I was probably sick

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Speaker 3: because I don't sound believable.

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Speaker 1: No, I trust you. Nicole Kidman and Keith Urbans teenage

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Speaker 1: daughter Sunday Rose walk the runway for Me Me last week.

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Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian's interview with her twin daughter is going viral,

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Speaker 1: but one Australian businesswoman an influencer, has taken a very

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Speaker 1: different approach to how she puts her child on social

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Speaker 1: media and some of her followers are weirdly angry about it.

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Speaker 1: The world's number one show is about healthy relationships and

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Speaker 1: loser's siblings. We're unpacking why nobody wants this has become

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Speaker 1: the unexpected streaming hit of the year. And don't call

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Speaker 1: me baby or mate, the iconic word that people are

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Speaker 1: passionately arguing about this week after a retail worker got

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Speaker 1: in trouble for using it at work, but.

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Speaker 3: First in case he missed it for the first time

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Speaker 3: since becoming King Charles will be visiting Australia next week

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Speaker 3: and nobody wants to go to his party.

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Speaker 4: Okay, King Charles is actually sick and he's coming to Australia.

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Speaker 2: It caused his cancer treatment to come to Australia.

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Speaker 4: Not like you last week, not like this films was anything.

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Speaker 1: It feels rude. Can I just say that last time

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Speaker 1: he was in Australia, or it might have been the

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Speaker 1: time before, I was invited to go and meet him

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Speaker 1: and Camilla.

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Speaker 4: And you went, well, ye had nothing else.

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Speaker 1: I curred to me to not go. I did go

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Speaker 1: for a bit disloyal to Diana in a way meeting Camilla,

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Speaker 1: but they were a hoot.

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Speaker 3: So I've got all the excuses. So it's all the

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Speaker 3: state premiers that aren't going okay to his kind of

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Speaker 3: welcoming party in Canberra. So here are the excuses. So

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Speaker 3: the Victorian Premier just Into Alan says she's at a

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Speaker 3: cabinet meeting that day. New South Wales Premier Chris Minn

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Speaker 3: says he's also at a cabinet meeting that day.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't be the same cabinet meeting he.

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Speaker 2: Meets the same one.

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Speaker 3: South Australian Premier Peter Malanowski says he has a regional

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Speaker 3: cabinet meeting that day.

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Speaker 1: He can't get far off away.

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Speaker 3: Queensland Premier Stephen Miles says he's too busy with campaigning

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Speaker 3: for the re election.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's that sounds like a stretch. That's the weakest

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Speaker 4: excuse i've heard thus far.

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Speaker 2: I think the best one.

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Speaker 3: Tasmanian Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe is on a US trade mission,

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Speaker 3: so he's actually busy, all right.

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Speaker 2: He's a Western.

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Speaker 3: Australia's Premier Roger Cook says he just had other commitments.

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Speaker 4: Okay, even he took a leaf out of I think

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Speaker 4: it's Zoe Foster Blake who's talked about this. You don't

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Speaker 4: give an excuse because Charles might say it's all right,

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Speaker 4: I'll go the next day when you don't have your

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Speaker 4: cabinet meeting. Yeah, and then and then you're screwed, whereas

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Speaker 4: this guy has gone absolutely not. I'm just out for

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Speaker 4: the whole week. How about the New South Wales cabinet meeting.

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Speaker 1: But that's why I went because I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: cabinet meeting obviously. But I'm interested to understand what this means,

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Speaker 1: because obviously all of these people could make themselves available,

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Speaker 1: but they've chosen not to. Do you think that they

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Speaker 1: all checked with each other, that there's a group text

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Speaker 1: as a group chat, and they're all like, I'm not going,

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Speaker 1: and it's all if you're not going, and I'm not going,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, if we all make excuses, then

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Speaker 1: there's no attention on any one of us fight turning up.

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Speaker 4: For example, if Tasmania just went, you'd look very loyalist.

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Speaker 4: It would be almost a political statement to be the

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Speaker 4: only one going. But I just keep thinking, this is

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Speaker 4: a recurring nightmare of mind. This is why I don't

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Speaker 4: have birthday parties, because I have this dream that I

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Speaker 4: invite all of these people to my house and no

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Speaker 4: one shows up, and poor Charles must be because remember

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Speaker 4: there's humming with these coronations. He asked all the people

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Speaker 4: to perform, and all of them said no.

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Speaker 1: Katie pir he said, yes, if you could live inside

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Speaker 1: of a cartoon, which one would it be?

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Speaker 5: Barbie?

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Speaker 6: And why?

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Speaker 7: I really like Raquel and it's a good show and

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Speaker 7: I watch it every night.

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Speaker 1: I will literally be like gues, I'm a barbe Come on.

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Speaker 4: Two things happened over the weekend that made me think

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Speaker 4: about social media, children's faces, fame, and the choices that

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Speaker 4: parents make. The first was Australian business owner Kick founder

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Speaker 4: Steph clare Smith, who is mum to three year old Harvey,

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Speaker 4: and over the weekend I noticed she uploaded a video

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Speaker 4: of a day out with Harvey, but in that video,

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Speaker 4: his face was blurred and that was the first time

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Speaker 4: I'd seen her blow his face. Reacting to what must

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Speaker 4: have been some criticism, she then jumped onto her stories

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Speaker 4: and said that along with her husband, they've decided to

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Speaker 4: no longer share Harvey's face. He has been recognized on

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Speaker 4: the street by people he doesn't know and that's really

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Speaker 4: confusing for him. And so from now on she said,

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Speaker 4: we won't see him on her Instagram, and she has

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Speaker 4: one point five million followers.

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Speaker 1: We won't see him at all, or we just won't

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Speaker 1: see his actual face.

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Speaker 4: We won't see his face, okay, And you know, she said,

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Speaker 4: a lot of people are going, oh, well, why even

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Speaker 4: upload that? If I scroll back, if I Google, I

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Speaker 4: can find pictures of him. So what's the difference. And

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Speaker 4: to that, she said, you don't have to understand my

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Speaker 4: decision or agree with it. This is what we're doing

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Speaker 4: moving forward now. The next thing I saw in my

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Speaker 4: Instagram feet over the weekend was reality star and business

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Speaker 4: owner Kim Kardashian speaking to Interview magazine beside her eleven

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Speaker 4: year old daughter Northwest. Clips from that conversation have since

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Speaker 4: gone viral, which you heard at the top of the segment.

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Speaker 4: Northwest was speaking about her relationship with God, how much

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Speaker 4: she loves Barbie, her complicated relationship with the paparazzi, and

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Speaker 4: how she can't wait to start her careers. Mostly she's

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Speaker 4: brimming with business idea. She wants to have fashion label

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Speaker 4: called Northwest, and the fact that she used careers plural,

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Speaker 4: I think says everything about this upcoming generation. These two

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Speaker 4: examples felt like such an illustrative snapshot of the tensions

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Speaker 4: that currently exist in our culture around sharing images of

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Speaker 4: children online and if we do share, how much at

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Speaker 4: what age? And can we change our decision? M you

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Speaker 4: know social media better than just about anyone. Do you

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Speaker 4: have any reaction when you see either someone share images

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Speaker 4: of their kids or share images with their faces blurred out?

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Speaker 4: Because I've seen that increasingly as well.

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Speaker 3: When I first started seeing this happen, because I think

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Speaker 3: only now a lot of my friends are having children,

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Speaker 3: so there's a lot of kids on my Instagram feeds.

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Speaker 3: Didn't ask for them to be. Yeah, I don't follow them.

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Speaker 3: I follow my friends follow Get out of my face.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants this, he said.

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Speaker 3: But what I've noticed is that you know how Instagram

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Speaker 3: has like a close friends options when you do your

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Speaker 3: Instagram stories, I've noticed that a lot of them will

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Speaker 3: blur their kids' face on their main stories or their feed,

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Speaker 3: but have the normal photo without the blur on their

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Speaker 3: close friends stories. And I don't know how to ask

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Speaker 3: why am I allowed to see your child? And who's

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Speaker 3: not allowed to see your child?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: Who doesn't make it?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 1: These aren't famous people to be clear.

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Speaker 2: No, these are like my friends who aren't famous.

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Speaker 4: I've got people who are influencers who I say do

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Speaker 4: the same thing. I wonder that too.

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Speaker 2: I go, who are you?

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Speaker 4: Who is? And I get it, like maybe they know

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Speaker 4: that they've got certain journalists or they've got I mean

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Speaker 4: home a journalists.

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Speaker 1: But oh no, I completely understand that that's about having control,

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Speaker 1: because anyone can follow you if you're not private, anyone

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Speaker 1: can follow you on social media, and particularly if you

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Speaker 1: need to have a public account for your job, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you're an influencer, but if you're any person in

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Speaker 1: the public eye. Everybody kind of needs to promote their

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Speaker 1: business these days, no matter what it is, so there

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Speaker 1: will always be people following you who you don't know,

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Speaker 1: whereas with close friends, you can literally choose maybe that's

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Speaker 1: only four people, or maybe that's forty people, but they're

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Speaker 1: all people who you actually know.

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Speaker 3: But what I want to know is also, if you're

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Speaker 3: going to blur your kid's face, why post the photo

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Speaker 3: in the first place. I think it ruins a really

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Speaker 3: good photo.

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Speaker 4: I have heard a few of my friends get snarky

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Speaker 4: about this because they say, just don't share it. It's fine.

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Speaker 4: I will defend people uploading pictures with a blurred face,

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Speaker 4: because if you want to share scenes from your life,

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Speaker 4: and if you're a content creator, if you've got to

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Speaker 4: feed that beast, then I totally get how you want

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Speaker 4: to share parts of you and what you're doing. Your

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Speaker 4: child is inevitably probably in some of those images, and

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Speaker 4: so blurring their face means you can still share it

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Speaker 4: but not reveal their identity. And I think this is

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Speaker 4: something I'm grappling with.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that you can this is going to

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Speaker 1: sound wrong perform your identity as a parent, and I

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Speaker 1: don't mean perform has been faking, but like sharing your

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Speaker 1: identity as a parent without sharing your child's actual identity exactly.

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Speaker 4: And if you're a parent, then that is what your

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Speaker 4: weekends look like. Like what are you meant to do?

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Speaker 4: Kick them out of the photo?

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, like do one photo for

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Speaker 3: the family and then one I'm without the kids, so

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Speaker 3: it's like you're just like in an empty high chair,

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Speaker 3: like feeding nothing.

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Speaker 4: I totally get it, because my tension around this has

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Speaker 4: been how do we protect the images of children who

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Speaker 4: can't consent to having their image shared while also having

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Speaker 4: important conversations about parenting and motherhood and not erasing the

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Speaker 4: experience of parenting from the public domain, Like, how do

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Speaker 4: you have conversations about that without children?

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe it's by blurring faces. I mean, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm now going through it again with Lunar, my granddaughter,

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Speaker 1: your child, and I'm really confirmed. Well, I'm actually not

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Speaker 1: conflicted about it. I'm just not going to do it.

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Speaker 1: I just haven't done it. At first.

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Speaker 4: I had.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it because I didn't feel that it

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Speaker 1: was my right to do it, because it's up to

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Speaker 1: you and Luca. Now I I feel very clearly that

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do it for the same reason

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Speaker 1: that I don't do it for my own children and

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Speaker 1: never have. Because I have a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: are following me, and not all of those people like me.

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Speaker 1: Some of those people hate follow me, and I would

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Speaker 1: never want to put anyone that I love in that situation.

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Speaker 1: And also, my children don't want to be public people.

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Speaker 1: Northwest clearly does, Sunday Rose clearly does. So she's on

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Speaker 1: a catwalk. Although Nicole and Keith have almost never shared

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Speaker 1: photos of their children, it's interesting now she's sixteen, she

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Speaker 1: could consent and I know that's not social media that's

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Speaker 1: being in the public eye. The question is what are

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Speaker 1: children consenting to and are they capable of making those

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Speaker 1: kinds of decisions?

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Speaker 4: And I suppose too, what are parent's consenting to? Right

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Speaker 4: because we don't know. It's an ever changing beast that

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Speaker 4: we don't fully understand. And what I really respect about

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Speaker 4: Steph klas Smith I defect and her right to change

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Speaker 4: her mind about So I think that that's a one

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Speaker 4: year old is different to a three year old, is

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Speaker 4: different to a thirteen year old, and we're all at

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Speaker 4: different stages. And I think that's the thing with parenting too,

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Speaker 4: is that everyone has different values or hierarchy of values

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Speaker 4: when it comes to parenting, and no judgment about what

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Speaker 4: they are. Like my child is probably eating a lunch

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Speaker 4: right now. That would horrify some listeners because the nutritional

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Speaker 4: makeup of her lunch isn't my number one priority, right,

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Speaker 4: But for other people, like if Steph Klasmith did want

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Speaker 4: to share her child's face, like that's just how she's

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Speaker 4: choosing to parent. And because it's so public, I think

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Speaker 4: everyone then feels like they get to have an opinion

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 1: As we're all figuring it out. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: is what she said, which is so relevant and I

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Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about it before, is that it's a

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Speaker 1: safety issue for these children. You have to teach your

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Speaker 1: children about stranger danger and who you speak to in

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Speaker 1: public and who's a safe person and who's not. If

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Speaker 1: someone suddenly knows your name, recognize as you calls out

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Speaker 1: to you in the street. You're always with a three

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Speaker 1: year old, but what if you're not, Yeah, when they're

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Speaker 1: a little bit older and they're waiting outside the schoolgate

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Speaker 1: and someone's like, hey, Harvey, your mum told me to

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Speaker 1: come and pick you up, or even just hey Harvey,

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Speaker 1: can I have a selfie? And you're not there to

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Speaker 1: protect to.

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Speaker 4: Have Yeah, And how are you to anticipate that before

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Speaker 4: it happens. That's something that I've recognized, right, Like I

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Speaker 4: might have told this on the podcast before, but I

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Speaker 4: was sharing images of Luna in particularly the first few

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Speaker 4: months of her life. She is my entire world, so

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Speaker 4: it feels like what else would I share? And a

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Speaker 4: few comments popped up about I'd spoken on the podcast

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Speaker 4: about her she was slow to gain weight, and a

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Speaker 4: few really critical comments popped up about Luna and about

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Speaker 4: how she looked. And I read those and had this

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Speaker 4: fierce protective instinct of say what you want about me,

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Speaker 4: but you don't get to say that about my daughter.

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Speaker 4: Like I was so so horrified by that, and I

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Speaker 4: never would have thought that that would happen, like, which

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Speaker 4: sounds so silly because you go, well, of course people

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Speaker 4: are going to be critical. If people hate you, they'll

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Speaker 4: hurt your kid, but of a baby, But of a baby.

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Speaker 4: It's like I had to have that experience to go

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Speaker 4: all right, I am going to be forever navigating my

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Speaker 4: relationship between how much I share about me and my

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Speaker 4: child and all of it.

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Speaker 3: If Luna becomes more recognizable when she gets older, because

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Speaker 3: right now, for me, like all babies can't look the

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Speaker 3: same way.

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Speaker 2: I understand.

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Speaker 4: I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I understand the change like showing your baby and then

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Speaker 3: it becomes recognizable. So then you stop, do you reckon

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Speaker 3: or stop showing her.

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Speaker 4: We've talked before about leaking intimacy and having moments. You know,

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Speaker 4: my phone is just photos and videos of Luna that

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Speaker 4: are being sent to family all the time.

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Speaker 1: And we're content creators. Yeah, so it's it's challenging, right

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Speaker 1: because you're like, this is a funny story, this is

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Speaker 1: a cute video. We all try to show up on

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Speaker 1: social in an authentic way. And it often strikes me

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Speaker 1: that my children and now Luna are my whole world,

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Speaker 1: and I don't put any of them on social at all.

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Speaker 1: But we're sort of talking about the downside of it.

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Speaker 1: The other side of it is just that when you're

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Speaker 1: on social media, whether you have a big following or

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Speaker 1: whether you don't, people do have a parasocial relationship with you, right,

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Speaker 1: And that is a weird thing to come to terms

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Speaker 1: with and to process. And we're all still doing it

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Speaker 1: like that. People feel that they know us because they

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Speaker 1: do know us, because we put a lot of ourselves

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Speaker 1: out there, whether it's on this show or on our socials.

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Speaker 1: But that is a very big burden to give a child,

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Speaker 1: because the person who wants a selfie might not be

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Speaker 1: a kidnapper. They might just want a selfie. But that's weird,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not a decision that they ever made out,

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Speaker 1: it's just a bit of a head scrap.

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Speaker 4: I suppose is that if you are a public figure,

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Speaker 4: then there's an element of that happening anyway. Right, you're

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Speaker 4: walking down the street and people go, oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 4: Hamish Blake, and if you're with your kids, then suddenly

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Speaker 4: they're thrust into the spotlight. And we know Northwest is

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Speaker 4: talking about being happed, like these children are also being

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Speaker 4: photographed without their permission. For the lacks of Northwest. I

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Speaker 4: was thinking, yeah, she was in Vogue at one, but

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Speaker 4: also her life has been the stuff of a reality

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Speaker 4: television show since she was born, so she's of course yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to watch that video and

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Speaker 1: read that interview. And she's on the cover of this

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Speaker 1: magazine and she's eleven, right, and one of the quotes

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Speaker 1: or one of the you know, it was her mother

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Speaker 1: doing the interview. But I felt very this sounds like

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Speaker 1: concern trolling. But the stuff you say at eleven, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you want that immortalized. Like she says

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Speaker 1: some pretty full on stuff about God and about the

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Speaker 1: devil and her siblings, and you know, even some of

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Speaker 1: the more innocuous stuff. Kim says to her, what do

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Speaker 1: you want to be when you grow up? And north says,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because I already do a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that I want to be when I grow up.

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Speaker 1: I just want to pursue my careers now, and then

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Speaker 1: Kim says, that's amazing that you know so young. What

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Speaker 1: would be your fake name? This is the family business.

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Speaker 1: The family business is reality TV, it's selling product, it's

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Speaker 1: having all these kinds of opportunities because of your name.

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Speaker 1: And she sees her whole family work really hard as well,

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Speaker 1: but they exist in front of the camera. She's never

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Speaker 1: known anything else, and so does her father.

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Speaker 2: I saw as well.

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Speaker 4: Just recently, Saint, who's the I think next youngest maybe

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Speaker 4: got a YouTube account and Kim Kardashin had Saint sign

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Speaker 4: a contract that she shared, you know, all the accounts,

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Speaker 4: even Kim and North. The TikTok account is definitely overseen

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Speaker 4: by an adult, you can tell. And it's pretty harmless stuff.

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Speaker 4: But when you're a parent, I think that you assume

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Speaker 4: that everyone will love your child as much as you

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Speaker 4: do because you see something very different to what the

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Speaker 4: rest of the world sees. So when I was sharing

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Speaker 4: those images of Luna, I was like, can you even believe.

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Speaker 1: I have had the most breathtaking childs? And there people

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Speaker 1: like she looks like a potato.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I feel like this is the whole universe

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Speaker 4: in an image. Can you believe anything has ever been

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Speaker 4: this cute? And the thing about the world is that

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Speaker 4: they are simply not looking at the same photograph. And

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Speaker 4: so even Northwest I've seen. Do you remember recently the

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Speaker 4: Lion King the she performed in the Music Hall and

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Speaker 4: there was a Lion King clip and then that went

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Speaker 4: viral because a lot of people went, well, I think

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Speaker 4: that it's nepotism that she got this role and it

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Speaker 4: was a terrible performance, and listened to her voice.

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Speaker 1: I felt the same way about Sunday Rose Kidman Urban

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Speaker 1: who opened the show for Meumu. Now, she's a girl

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Speaker 1: who was always the minute she was on a red carpet,

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Speaker 1: and I noticed that Nicole had heard two daughters when

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Speaker 1: she was inducted into a Hall of Fame for something recently,

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Speaker 1: she had her two daughters on the red carpet with

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Speaker 1: her for the first time, along with her sister and

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Speaker 1: her niece. I was like, Oh, those girls are going

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Speaker 1: to be models in a hot second, because they're tall,

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Speaker 1: they're beautiful, they're like all of those things. But to

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Speaker 1: open a Mewmu show, that is a big friggin deal.

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Speaker 1: And I get that she's sixteen. What an amazing opportunity,

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Speaker 1: but she got absolutely slammed because that's what the internet is, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there are going to be people who are going to

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Speaker 1: be lovely, but most of the people who are going

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Speaker 1: to comment are going to say horrible things. Oh that's

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Speaker 1: a big thing to expose your child too. So as

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Speaker 1: a parent, how do you balance that between here's this

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Speaker 1: amazing opportunity, Yeah, what am I exposing them to?

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Speaker 3: Because it has to come out one way, right, So

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Speaker 3: is it better to come out as an eleven year

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Speaker 3: old or as a sixteen year old? Like even with

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Speaker 3: the Northwest stuff. I was watching that interview, and everything

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Speaker 3: she says, in my eyes, seemed fine for an eleven

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Speaker 3: year old to say, because all eleven year olds are notissist, Like,

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Speaker 3: that's something.

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Speaker 2: I would have said. I would have said the exact

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Speaker 2: same thing.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to do my careers, except my mom

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Speaker 3: would have been like, that's my sweetie. We is like

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Speaker 3: tell me more like she's like indulging that behavior.

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Speaker 4: It's trademarket.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's the biggest difference, where they've

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Speaker 3: been sheltered and then suddenly they want to do something

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Speaker 3: and the parent has to decide should I do it

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Speaker 3: now or should I wait a bit later, Like when

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Speaker 3: will be the strongest point in their life that they

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Speaker 3: can have this feedback come back.

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Speaker 4: And let's not pretend that we're not marinating in a

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Speaker 4: culture where having a public presence isn't something most people want,

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Speaker 4: even at eleven, like the thing about Northwest, even watching

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Speaker 4: that Northwest wants to be on camera. And I've heard

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Speaker 4: a lot of people say this about content creators going.

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Speaker 4: My five year old loves it, like we have all

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Speaker 4: this time together. And I know that it can to

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Speaker 4: some people it might look a bit dangerous, but there

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Speaker 4: are very few jobs that allow parent to spend time

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Speaker 4: with their child while also making money to make homemaking

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Speaker 4: or like what's happening inside the house monetized.

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Speaker 1: What's tricky is I came up in the Internet at

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Speaker 1: the time of mummy bloggers that and it was an

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Speaker 1: amazing time. And it was the first time that women's

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Speaker 1: roles as parents were visible, and that was a beautiful

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Speaker 1: thing and it helped so many people will feel seen

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Speaker 1: and also the people express themselves. But the toll on

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Speaker 1: those children when the Internet flipped and needed you to

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Speaker 1: make money, make branded content, you know, Heather Armstrong was

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Speaker 1: very famously probably the og mummy blogger, and she had

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Speaker 1: a blog called Douce and she used to write so

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Speaker 1: incredibly about her children and parenting and she was such

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Speaker 1: a funny writer. But then when she had to do

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Speaker 1: branded content, she was like, my kids hate having to

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Speaker 1: do this and perform and talk about this brand or

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Speaker 1: go in this car or and she was really torn

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Speaker 1: and she had to give it up because they just

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Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. And I was listening to

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Speaker 1: a podcast interview with a YouTube family creator who made

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Speaker 1: the same decision. But it's hard to walk away from

437
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Speaker 1: all of that money. And the money is also you know,

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Speaker 1: it was going to pay for their college and becomes

439
00:21:01,327 --> 00:21:02,647
Speaker 1: a way to support the family.

440
00:21:02,727 --> 00:21:04,767
Speaker 4: Your life, your work can be a lot more flexible,

441
00:21:04,807 --> 00:21:06,767
Speaker 4: You get to spend more time with the people you

442
00:21:06,807 --> 00:21:07,687
Speaker 4: want to spend more time with.

443
00:21:07,847 --> 00:21:12,367
Speaker 1: Yeah, so those decisions come even harder when money is involved.

444
00:21:12,367 --> 00:21:14,487
Speaker 1: And you might feel one way that I don't want

445
00:21:14,527 --> 00:21:18,087
Speaker 1: to show my child's face, but then you get this opportunity, well,

446
00:21:18,287 --> 00:21:21,327
Speaker 1: we're going to pay you ten thousand dollars if you

447
00:21:21,407 --> 00:21:23,927
Speaker 1: do this thing for this brand with your child in it.

448
00:21:24,367 --> 00:21:26,127
Speaker 1: And then you say well, that ten thousand.

449
00:21:25,887 --> 00:21:28,527
Speaker 4: Dollars could means I work one less daal Ware.

450
00:21:28,767 --> 00:21:31,887
Speaker 1: Exactly, and I can be with my child more or Yeah,

451
00:21:31,887 --> 00:21:34,607
Speaker 1: the opportunities that it brings you. So there's no easy answer.

452
00:21:34,767 --> 00:21:36,647
Speaker 1: I think what I love about Steph klas Smith is

453
00:21:36,687 --> 00:21:37,807
Speaker 1: that she's figuring it out.

454
00:21:37,887 --> 00:21:41,047
Speaker 4: And I also resent that in this whole conversation the

455
00:21:41,367 --> 00:21:44,327
Speaker 4: people we ever talk about are mother's. I have never

456
00:21:44,487 --> 00:21:47,607
Speaker 4: heard or even seen a comment about a father. Sharing

457
00:21:47,607 --> 00:21:51,127
Speaker 4: a picture of the child is just applause that you're

458
00:21:51,167 --> 00:21:54,047
Speaker 4: spending good time with them. Out Louders let us know

459
00:21:54,247 --> 00:21:56,407
Speaker 4: what you think. You can jump into the out Loud

460
00:21:56,647 --> 00:21:59,087
Speaker 4: Facebook group. You can send us a voice note and

461
00:21:59,167 --> 00:22:01,847
Speaker 4: send it to out loud at mummeat dot com dot au.

462
00:22:01,967 --> 00:22:04,207
Speaker 4: We always love your feedback and if you want to

463
00:22:04,247 --> 00:22:06,847
Speaker 4: hear more from Steph Klaire Smith, there is a brilliant

464
00:22:06,927 --> 00:22:10,047
Speaker 4: episode of but Are You Happy? You can listen to

465
00:22:10,087 --> 00:22:12,087
Speaker 4: that by clicking on the link in the show notes.

466
00:22:23,687 --> 00:22:24,447
Speaker 6: You should be.

467
00:22:25,727 --> 00:22:26,567
Speaker 4: Diating hot Rabbi.

468
00:22:26,927 --> 00:22:28,607
Speaker 1: We definitely are a week.

469
00:22:28,687 --> 00:22:33,567
Speaker 4: I just heard him introduce you as his friend.

470
00:22:34,327 --> 00:22:36,247
Speaker 8: You're going to turn your whole left wepsode down fantastic.

471
00:22:36,727 --> 00:22:38,567
Speaker 8: You're never going to end that with my son.

472
00:22:40,047 --> 00:22:42,647
Speaker 1: On the weekend, it was announced that the Netflix rom

473
00:22:42,727 --> 00:22:45,367
Speaker 1: com Nobody Wants This is going to have a second

474
00:22:45,447 --> 00:22:48,127
Speaker 1: season after the first season has been the number one

475
00:22:48,207 --> 00:22:50,927
Speaker 1: show in the streaming world for the last couple of weeks.

476
00:22:51,367 --> 00:22:54,447
Speaker 1: It stars Adam Brody who was I Didn't watch the

477
00:22:54,447 --> 00:22:58,047
Speaker 1: Open and Seth Cohen. He plays Noah, a cool La

478
00:22:58,167 --> 00:23:01,047
Speaker 1: rabbi who falls in love with an agnostic podcast host

479
00:23:01,247 --> 00:23:03,607
Speaker 1: called Joanne played by Kristen Bell.

480
00:23:05,567 --> 00:23:07,207
Speaker 2: Is a millennial's wet dream.

481
00:23:07,727 --> 00:23:10,567
Speaker 1: Joanne isn't Jewish, but the show is about how love

482
00:23:10,607 --> 00:23:13,607
Speaker 1: conquers all, or maybe it doesn't. It was created by

483
00:23:13,647 --> 00:23:17,967
Speaker 1: Aaron Foster, who, like Joanne, hosts a podcast with her

484
00:23:18,007 --> 00:23:21,847
Speaker 1: sister and married a Jewish guy despite not being Jewish herself.

485
00:23:21,887 --> 00:23:24,847
Speaker 1: And there are two big themes in the show that

486
00:23:25,047 --> 00:23:28,847
Speaker 1: we think has contributed to its breakthrough global success, and

487
00:23:28,887 --> 00:23:31,767
Speaker 1: we wanted to unpack them today. Will there be spoilers?

488
00:23:32,407 --> 00:23:35,047
Speaker 1: Not really, This isn't really about the show.

489
00:23:34,847 --> 00:23:37,407
Speaker 4: Itself, because I will speak from the perspective I've got

490
00:23:37,407 --> 00:23:39,847
Speaker 4: two episodes to go, and so I will not have

491
00:23:39,927 --> 00:23:42,527
Speaker 4: it spoiled. I still don't know, will they won't they?

492
00:23:42,807 --> 00:23:45,007
Speaker 4: I don't have the answer yet, so you know, no

493
00:23:45,087 --> 00:23:46,487
Speaker 4: spoilers from you to a challenge.

494
00:23:46,607 --> 00:23:52,327
Speaker 1: Okay, not really because anyway, I won't spoil it. The

495
00:23:52,447 --> 00:23:55,807
Speaker 1: first theme of this show, why people are saying that

496
00:23:55,847 --> 00:24:00,047
Speaker 1: it's really cut through, is that it depicts the idea

497
00:24:00,087 --> 00:24:04,047
Speaker 1: of healthy relationships, or more importantly, it flips the script

498
00:24:04,087 --> 00:24:06,207
Speaker 1: on the usual girl chasers guy who doesn't want to

499
00:24:06,207 --> 00:24:11,327
Speaker 1: commit stereotype by portraying this very securely attached guy Noah

500
00:24:11,607 --> 00:24:15,727
Speaker 1: who's trying to pin down an avoidant woman Joanne, who

501
00:24:15,807 --> 00:24:18,007
Speaker 1: is a bit of a fuck up. And it also

502
00:24:18,087 --> 00:24:21,327
Speaker 1: has a great subplot of the main character's siblings, and

503
00:24:21,327 --> 00:24:23,607
Speaker 1: this is the second sort of theme we wanted to explore.

504
00:24:24,207 --> 00:24:27,607
Speaker 1: Noah's brother and Joe and sister call themselves loser siblings,

505
00:24:27,647 --> 00:24:30,007
Speaker 1: and they make a group chat between the two of

506
00:24:30,047 --> 00:24:30,927
Speaker 1: them called.

507
00:24:30,847 --> 00:24:34,647
Speaker 8: That having siblings is hard, especially when one sibling is

508
00:24:34,687 --> 00:24:38,127
Speaker 8: the clear loser. You may be suffering from losers siblings syndrome.

509
00:24:38,167 --> 00:24:40,927
Speaker 8: If your sibling cringed in school when teachers asked if

510
00:24:40,967 --> 00:24:43,327
Speaker 8: the two of you were related, your sibling jokes that

511
00:24:43,367 --> 00:24:45,327
Speaker 8: you'll have to live in their basement one day. There's

512
00:24:45,327 --> 00:24:47,807
Speaker 8: a secret family group chat that you're not a part

513
00:24:47,847 --> 00:24:50,487
Speaker 8: of you did it yet another walking red flag, and

514
00:24:50,527 --> 00:24:54,087
Speaker 8: instead of being surprised, your family says, that's so you

515
00:24:54,087 --> 00:24:58,847
Speaker 8: you were born the middle child. Sound familiar, we thought.

516
00:24:58,647 --> 00:25:02,207
Speaker 1: So that's been so successful that TikTok is demanding the

517
00:25:02,287 --> 00:25:05,607
Speaker 1: loser siblings, who are Justine Loop who plays Morgan and

518
00:25:05,607 --> 00:25:08,847
Speaker 1: Timothy Simons who plays Sasha, have their own show because

519
00:25:08,847 --> 00:25:12,367
Speaker 1: they want to what happens with them. I actually, funnily enough,

520
00:25:12,367 --> 00:25:15,287
Speaker 1: did an episode of No Filter this week about attachment

521
00:25:15,327 --> 00:25:17,807
Speaker 1: theory and this idea of the secure attachment style and

522
00:25:17,847 --> 00:25:20,527
Speaker 1: all the other attachment styles. There are three others, and

523
00:25:20,567 --> 00:25:23,647
Speaker 1: the secure is the most healthy, but it's not shown

524
00:25:23,727 --> 00:25:25,807
Speaker 1: in rom coms very.

525
00:25:25,687 --> 00:25:29,807
Speaker 4: Much ever, and it's not ever shown in even like

526
00:25:30,087 --> 00:25:33,087
Speaker 4: fiction movies, rom coms because in order for there to

527
00:25:33,127 --> 00:25:36,727
Speaker 4: be a complication, that complication often has to be internal.

528
00:25:37,127 --> 00:25:42,087
Speaker 4: So there are all these roadblocks, so someone is anxiously

529
00:25:42,127 --> 00:25:44,887
Speaker 4: attached or avoidant, and so you have one chasing like

530
00:25:44,887 --> 00:25:46,087
Speaker 4: a cat and mouse situation.

531
00:25:46,247 --> 00:25:46,607
Speaker 1: Yeah.

532
00:25:46,647 --> 00:25:50,207
Speaker 4: What was genius about this was that the complication which

533
00:25:50,247 --> 00:25:54,247
Speaker 4: is required in order to sustain a ten episode.

534
00:25:54,007 --> 00:25:55,207
Speaker 1: And ten episodes is long.

535
00:25:55,327 --> 00:25:59,487
Speaker 4: It's long. All the complications were external. They were the

536
00:25:59,527 --> 00:26:02,247
Speaker 4: fact that he is Jewish and he's around.

537
00:26:02,287 --> 00:26:06,047
Speaker 1: He didn't approve, His family didn't approve, her sister didn't approve.

538
00:26:06,287 --> 00:26:10,887
Speaker 4: Yeah. So actually their relationship from the beginning, and what

539
00:26:10,967 --> 00:26:14,447
Speaker 4: I thought was so appealing about it was that I went,

540
00:26:14,807 --> 00:26:17,767
Speaker 4: that is what it's like meeting your person, like when

541
00:26:17,807 --> 00:26:20,887
Speaker 4: you fall in love. I'm sure this isn't universal, but

542
00:26:21,167 --> 00:26:23,567
Speaker 4: in my experience when I fell in love, it became

543
00:26:23,687 --> 00:26:28,207
Speaker 4: very uncomplicated internally. There wasn't will he text. You know,

544
00:26:28,247 --> 00:26:31,447
Speaker 4: we've just seen the phenomenon of it ends with us,

545
00:26:31,647 --> 00:26:37,567
Speaker 4: where there's all this really toxic behavior that toxic stuff

546
00:26:38,207 --> 00:26:41,927
Speaker 4: for you know, healthy relationships often evaporates. And this became

547
00:26:42,087 --> 00:26:45,487
Speaker 4: like a bingo card of green flax of all the

548
00:26:45,527 --> 00:26:48,687
Speaker 4: things that when you see in someone, like organizing the date,

549
00:26:48,927 --> 00:26:53,887
Speaker 4: being emotionally available, apologizing, went last stuff up, not lying,

550
00:26:54,047 --> 00:26:56,207
Speaker 4: not hiding things, not hiding things.

551
00:26:55,927 --> 00:26:57,287
Speaker 1: All of it transparent.

552
00:26:57,607 --> 00:27:01,127
Speaker 4: Was like a guidebook. There's this article going around about

553
00:27:01,167 --> 00:27:03,327
Speaker 4: a different movie and kind of praise kink. This is

554
00:27:03,367 --> 00:27:07,047
Speaker 4: like healthy relationship kink in terms of the woman who

555
00:27:07,167 --> 00:27:12,087
Speaker 4: just wants someone who is stay predictable clearly is really

556
00:27:12,087 --> 00:27:16,287
Speaker 4: into her. Yeah, And there's a complication because otherwise we

557
00:27:16,287 --> 00:27:18,727
Speaker 4: wouldn't watch it. But it's all external.

558
00:27:19,327 --> 00:27:22,487
Speaker 2: Does that actually exist though in real life? Like that's secure?

559
00:27:22,727 --> 00:27:26,927
Speaker 3: Like I've never once met a secure person In relationships,

560
00:27:27,007 --> 00:27:29,407
Speaker 3: I feel like there's always and always am anxious, like

561
00:27:29,447 --> 00:27:31,887
Speaker 3: someone's always chasing, someone always likes the other person a

562
00:27:31,887 --> 00:27:32,487
Speaker 3: little bit more.

563
00:27:32,847 --> 00:27:36,767
Speaker 1: Yes, but you don't have to be avoidant. I think

564
00:27:36,807 --> 00:27:40,247
Speaker 1: that in this I said that Joanne was avoidant. She

565
00:27:40,287 --> 00:27:45,167
Speaker 1: you're right, Aunt Jesse. She's not actually avoidant, but she's complicated,

566
00:27:45,327 --> 00:27:49,047
Speaker 1: complicated and she doesn't know, but you're right. They just

567
00:27:49,087 --> 00:27:49,847
Speaker 1: want to be together.

568
00:27:50,167 --> 00:27:52,367
Speaker 4: Early on in the series, she has this moment where

569
00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:55,847
Speaker 4: she says, I'm terrified I'm too much, that I'm going

570
00:27:55,927 --> 00:27:57,527
Speaker 4: to say I want you, that I'm going to have

571
00:27:57,567 --> 00:27:59,487
Speaker 4: to rely on someone, and that You're going to say

572
00:27:59,487 --> 00:28:01,887
Speaker 4: I'm too much. And I was reading this review that said,

573
00:28:02,127 --> 00:28:04,447
Speaker 4: you know, millions of women around the world have had

574
00:28:04,447 --> 00:28:07,887
Speaker 4: that exact dialogue where they've tried to sustain their own

575
00:28:08,007 --> 00:28:10,407
Speaker 4: sort of independence because they don't want to be porous

576
00:28:10,407 --> 00:28:12,127
Speaker 4: and they don't want to rely on someone because they're

577
00:28:12,207 --> 00:28:16,047
Speaker 4: terrified of being let down. And in this case, the

578
00:28:16,087 --> 00:28:20,087
Speaker 4: show was almost showing the stability of Adam Brady.

579
00:28:19,847 --> 00:28:21,487
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that. My favorite line in the

580
00:28:21,527 --> 00:28:23,767
Speaker 1: whole thing, the one that just made me melt, was

581
00:28:23,807 --> 00:28:25,287
Speaker 1: when he said I can handle you.

582
00:28:25,887 --> 00:28:30,207
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh.

583
00:28:28,687 --> 00:28:31,487
Speaker 4: I think as well that what you say about the

584
00:28:31,527 --> 00:28:34,967
Speaker 4: loser siblings. The gold for me was also the relationship

585
00:28:35,007 --> 00:28:37,687
Speaker 4: between the sisters. I think there are a few things funnier,

586
00:28:37,927 --> 00:28:40,527
Speaker 4: you know this m than the relationship between sisters, Like

587
00:28:40,607 --> 00:28:45,247
Speaker 4: it is so nuanced and so weird and so perfectly

588
00:28:45,687 --> 00:28:48,847
Speaker 4: written that for a lot of women we also saw

589
00:28:48,887 --> 00:28:49,207
Speaker 4: it was.

590
00:28:49,207 --> 00:28:51,967
Speaker 1: The sister relationship well written, as you both have sisters

591
00:28:52,007 --> 00:28:52,567
Speaker 1: and I don't.

592
00:28:52,807 --> 00:28:56,047
Speaker 3: And I think the reason they made them sisters was

593
00:28:56,087 --> 00:28:58,847
Speaker 3: because if they were best friends and they had like

594
00:28:58,887 --> 00:29:00,967
Speaker 3: their big fights, I don't think they could have convinced

595
00:29:01,007 --> 00:29:03,127
Speaker 3: us that they would make up so quickly, whereas with

596
00:29:03,207 --> 00:29:04,767
Speaker 3: sisters you always make up.

597
00:29:04,727 --> 00:29:06,767
Speaker 4: In the same conversation, in the same conversation.

598
00:29:07,567 --> 00:29:09,367
Speaker 2: But do you want to go just watch a movie?

599
00:29:09,687 --> 00:29:12,887
Speaker 4: The chemistry as well, like everyone's talking about how this

600
00:29:12,927 --> 00:29:15,087
Speaker 4: chemistry just exploded and the kiss, and you know, they're

601
00:29:15,087 --> 00:29:19,407
Speaker 4: both obviously very attractive. Interestingly, they're totally ageless, like they

602
00:29:19,407 --> 00:29:22,727
Speaker 4: don't give any indications of how old they are marriage.

603
00:29:22,767 --> 00:29:26,087
Speaker 4: Babies don't really come up other than the Jewish thing.

604
00:29:26,607 --> 00:29:29,447
Speaker 4: But the chemistry for me came from the humor, like

605
00:29:29,487 --> 00:29:31,247
Speaker 4: they just had exactly the same sense of humor, and

606
00:29:31,287 --> 00:29:33,807
Speaker 4: that was the hottest thing. The banter, the banter that

607
00:29:33,927 --> 00:29:37,567
Speaker 4: kind of went back and forth. And the podcasting I

608
00:29:37,607 --> 00:29:40,967
Speaker 4: thought was funny because Sex and City is obviously like

609
00:29:41,047 --> 00:29:44,527
Speaker 4: the kind of sitcom that every millennial gen X woman

610
00:29:44,607 --> 00:29:47,327
Speaker 4: is obsessed with, and that was the column. The rom

611
00:29:47,407 --> 00:29:49,967
Speaker 4: com has this device of like even how to Lose

612
00:29:50,007 --> 00:29:52,247
Speaker 4: a Guy in Ten Days, where it's the column and

613
00:29:52,247 --> 00:29:54,967
Speaker 4: you're writing and you're living and you're reflecting and you're funny.

614
00:29:55,047 --> 00:29:57,447
Speaker 1: It's the career girl of the moment, what's her job?

615
00:29:57,687 --> 00:30:00,327
Speaker 4: Yes? And in this it was basically call her.

616
00:30:00,327 --> 00:30:03,727
Speaker 1: Day, yes, except with two of them. And it's funny

617
00:30:03,727 --> 00:30:06,687
Speaker 1: because I went and listened to their actual podcast, which

618
00:30:06,727 --> 00:30:11,127
Speaker 1: is shambolish, like it's not it made me feel good

619
00:30:11,167 --> 00:30:13,127
Speaker 1: about us in terms of how organized we are, but

620
00:30:13,167 --> 00:30:15,287
Speaker 1: it is actually a very accurate depiction and they are

621
00:30:15,367 --> 00:30:18,087
Speaker 1: just like wandering off and going to the bathroom and eating.

622
00:30:18,127 --> 00:30:20,247
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think they've got a whole

623
00:30:20,287 --> 00:30:23,647
Speaker 1: lot more listeners now and everyone now, but it's still

624
00:30:23,687 --> 00:30:26,767
Speaker 1: as completely shambala and disorganize. But they were saying that

625
00:30:26,887 --> 00:30:30,127
Speaker 1: one of the criticisms of the series is, oh, as

626
00:30:30,167 --> 00:30:33,407
Speaker 1: if you could make enough money to support yourself by

627
00:30:33,807 --> 00:30:36,687
Speaker 1: having this shambolic podcast, and they were like, we do,

628
00:30:36,967 --> 00:30:39,767
Speaker 1: and we have, as they threw to one of their

629
00:30:39,807 --> 00:30:42,927
Speaker 1: seventeen hours, and you actually wrote a story for Mum

630
00:30:43,007 --> 00:30:45,687
Speaker 1: and mea that was about another issue that you found

631
00:30:45,727 --> 00:30:47,687
Speaker 1: really poignant when you watch this show.

632
00:30:47,887 --> 00:30:50,447
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is exactly the relationship we were talking about before,

633
00:30:50,447 --> 00:30:53,967
Speaker 3: the relationship between Joanne and Morgan, the sisters. When you

634
00:30:54,007 --> 00:30:57,287
Speaker 3: see Joanne kind of just swept away into this relationship

635
00:30:57,847 --> 00:31:00,607
Speaker 3: and Justine access so well because you can see the

636
00:31:00,647 --> 00:31:02,887
Speaker 3: cogs in her brain like as she's acting this out

637
00:31:02,887 --> 00:31:08,047
Speaker 3: of like watching your person find their person and seeing

638
00:31:08,127 --> 00:31:10,847
Speaker 3: yourself slowly loose them, the sense of loss and the

639
00:31:10,887 --> 00:31:13,287
Speaker 3: sense of loss and you can't be upset because it's

640
00:31:13,287 --> 00:31:14,647
Speaker 3: not like you were in a relationship with them, and

641
00:31:14,647 --> 00:31:16,407
Speaker 3: you have to be happy for them because you want

642
00:31:16,407 --> 00:31:19,727
Speaker 3: them to be happy. And it's one of those situations

643
00:31:19,767 --> 00:31:22,007
Speaker 3: where it's happened to me so many times where like

644
00:31:22,327 --> 00:31:24,407
Speaker 3: I've had my best friend and then she falls in

645
00:31:24,447 --> 00:31:27,087
Speaker 3: love and I see her slowly like stepping out of

646
00:31:27,087 --> 00:31:29,407
Speaker 3: my life in weird ways, like finding out like oh,

647
00:31:29,407 --> 00:31:31,767
Speaker 3: I'm not your emergency contact anymore, or like oh, you

648
00:31:31,807 --> 00:31:33,687
Speaker 3: don't have me on find my friends anymore. And I'm

649
00:31:33,687 --> 00:31:35,767
Speaker 3: meant to be okay with that. And I don't even

650
00:31:35,807 --> 00:31:38,527
Speaker 3: get the breakup. Yeah, Like I just get.

651
00:31:38,327 --> 00:31:39,047
Speaker 2: The slow goo.

652
00:31:39,247 --> 00:31:42,967
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. That's a little bit like when your

653
00:31:43,047 --> 00:31:45,687
Speaker 1: child grows up and falls in love and moves away

654
00:31:45,687 --> 00:31:47,767
Speaker 1: from me. It's a little bit like when Luca found you, Jesse.

655
00:31:48,487 --> 00:31:52,087
Speaker 1: Not such a sense the sense of loss was maybe

656
00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:55,967
Speaker 1: was smaller for me. There was also the beautiful sense

657
00:31:56,007 --> 00:31:59,127
Speaker 1: of gain of watching your person be loved in the

658
00:31:59,167 --> 00:32:02,967
Speaker 1: way that you think they deserve to be loved. That's beautiful.

659
00:32:03,287 --> 00:32:05,447
Speaker 4: I certainly had that with Claire, like when she met

660
00:32:05,527 --> 00:32:08,567
Speaker 4: her person a lot younger than I did. It was

661
00:32:08,767 --> 00:32:13,527
Speaker 4: this me of grief and joy, like this bizarre, bizarre mix.

662
00:32:13,687 --> 00:32:15,967
Speaker 3: And I think that's why I was impressed they made

663
00:32:16,007 --> 00:32:20,927
Speaker 3: them sisters, because even being that single best friend, you know,

664
00:32:21,007 --> 00:32:23,407
Speaker 3: there are certain things you can't say without it sounding

665
00:32:23,447 --> 00:32:26,007
Speaker 3: like you're the sad single best friend, Like you can't

666
00:32:26,087 --> 00:32:28,367
Speaker 3: comment on their partner if you didn't like something they said,

667
00:32:28,407 --> 00:32:30,927
Speaker 3: because then you're jealous. You're automatically you're a jealous person

668
00:32:30,967 --> 00:32:32,807
Speaker 3: who just wants to be in a relationship. I'm having

669
00:32:32,847 --> 00:32:35,327
Speaker 3: a sad dating app with your sister or with friends

670
00:32:35,607 --> 00:32:37,567
Speaker 3: with friends, it's happened with friends. I think there's too

671
00:32:37,647 --> 00:32:39,207
Speaker 3: much of an age gap between me and my sister.

672
00:32:39,527 --> 00:32:42,047
Speaker 3: But when they were having that fight and Joanne said

673
00:32:42,167 --> 00:32:44,007
Speaker 3: it's like, not my fault, you're still un stuck on

674
00:32:44,047 --> 00:32:46,567
Speaker 3: the sad dating apps, that hit something in me.

675
00:32:47,167 --> 00:32:49,687
Speaker 1: Oh that was that was a deep cart.

676
00:32:49,527 --> 00:32:51,727
Speaker 3: Because I feel like when you're talking about like the

677
00:32:51,807 --> 00:32:54,087
Speaker 3: dating app stage of life, a lot of people see

678
00:32:54,087 --> 00:32:56,687
Speaker 3: that as a phase, and I'm like, some women have

679
00:32:56,727 --> 00:32:59,447
Speaker 3: been on dating apps the entire like dating life.

680
00:32:59,167 --> 00:33:03,647
Speaker 7: And there's a smugness of like I graduated, I got out, Yeah,

681
00:33:03,687 --> 00:33:07,127
Speaker 7: and you're still stuck. Like that hit a nerve and

682
00:33:07,167 --> 00:33:09,647
Speaker 7: I was like so happy that that blew up for them,

683
00:33:09,767 --> 00:33:11,287
Speaker 7: Like that was like the catalyst.

684
00:33:10,927 --> 00:33:13,287
Speaker 1: Because you felt defensive. Yeah, out louder is if you

685
00:33:13,287 --> 00:33:15,887
Speaker 1: want to hear more about attachment styles and what yours

686
00:33:15,927 --> 00:33:19,087
Speaker 1: might be, plus what it says about you. Guess what,

687
00:33:19,367 --> 00:33:21,567
Speaker 1: I'm not one of the functional ones. There's only one

688
00:33:21,607 --> 00:33:26,047
Speaker 1: functional one and I'm not have a Listen to today's

689
00:33:26,047 --> 00:33:28,487
Speaker 1: episode of No Filter when you can hear my conversation

690
00:33:28,567 --> 00:33:31,447
Speaker 1: with doctor Morgan Anderson, who is an expert on attachment theory.

691
00:33:31,487 --> 00:33:33,367
Speaker 1: There is a link in the show notes.

692
00:33:33,127 --> 00:33:34,047
Speaker 4: And what do you think you are?

693
00:33:34,327 --> 00:33:35,207
Speaker 2: What attachment style?

694
00:33:35,367 --> 00:33:37,767
Speaker 3: I've been told by a man I think you said

695
00:33:37,807 --> 00:33:39,807
Speaker 3: to me? Have you always been an avoidant?

696
00:33:40,047 --> 00:33:43,847
Speaker 1: So the four styles are secure, avoidant, anxious, and disorganized?

697
00:33:44,047 --> 00:33:44,887
Speaker 2: Which one's the worst?

698
00:33:45,847 --> 00:33:46,127
Speaker 1: Is there?

699
00:33:46,167 --> 00:33:46,687
Speaker 2: Avoidant?

700
00:33:46,927 --> 00:33:48,807
Speaker 1: Secure is the only one you want to be. That's

701
00:33:48,847 --> 00:33:50,487
Speaker 1: where we're all aiming to be. It's at the top

702
00:33:50,527 --> 00:33:52,887
Speaker 1: of the leaderboard, something to work towards.

703
00:33:53,087 --> 00:33:54,527
Speaker 4: If you want to know what Holly and I are,

704
00:33:54,807 --> 00:33:57,567
Speaker 4: you can listen to tomorrow's subscribe episode where look, we

705
00:33:57,607 --> 00:34:00,407
Speaker 4: took a quiz and we had some insights and we

706
00:34:00,487 --> 00:34:02,727
Speaker 4: had there was a bit of soul searching, So you

707
00:34:02,767 --> 00:34:07,807
Speaker 4: can listen to that tomorrow. Wan unlimited out loud access.

708
00:34:08,047 --> 00:34:12,167
Speaker 4: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum

709
00:34:12,207 --> 00:34:15,207
Speaker 4: and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes

710
00:34:15,247 --> 00:34:17,727
Speaker 4: to get us in your ears five days a week.

711
00:34:17,847 --> 00:34:20,607
Speaker 4: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

712
00:34:28,127 --> 00:34:32,727
Speaker 6: Nate May why hey me your mate? Mate?

713
00:34:33,127 --> 00:34:33,407
Speaker 5: Thanks?

714
00:34:33,447 --> 00:34:33,727
Speaker 9: Mate?

715
00:34:33,727 --> 00:34:34,327
Speaker 1: Look mate?

716
00:34:34,527 --> 00:34:35,967
Speaker 8: No, you look mate.

717
00:34:36,327 --> 00:34:39,327
Speaker 3: A father of a retail worker went on Reddit to

718
00:34:39,487 --> 00:34:43,607
Speaker 3: ask if calling someone mate was now offensive. So he

719
00:34:43,647 --> 00:34:46,447
Speaker 3: said that his daughter called the customer mate, and towards

720
00:34:46,487 --> 00:34:49,287
Speaker 3: the end of their interaction, the customer said, can I

721
00:34:49,327 --> 00:34:52,407
Speaker 3: tell you something? Please don't call me mate. His daughter

722
00:34:52,447 --> 00:34:55,167
Speaker 3: Dan apologized and said, I'm sorry if I've offended you.

723
00:34:55,247 --> 00:34:58,447
Speaker 3: The customer said it's unprofessional to use that word in

724
00:34:58,487 --> 00:35:02,007
Speaker 3: the workplace. He said that his daughter was pretty sure

725
00:35:02,047 --> 00:35:05,087
Speaker 3: the customer was Australian and has now kind of spiraled

726
00:35:05,127 --> 00:35:09,927
Speaker 3: and has like stopped using any sort of like langui customers.

727
00:35:10,447 --> 00:35:12,047
Speaker 3: So I went onto this Reddit post and I was

728
00:35:12,087 --> 00:35:14,447
Speaker 3: looking at all of the comments, and a lot of

729
00:35:14,447 --> 00:35:17,367
Speaker 3: them were quite shocked that someone said that it's offensive,

730
00:35:17,447 --> 00:35:19,887
Speaker 3: like don't call me mate. But there were few people

731
00:35:19,887 --> 00:35:24,647
Speaker 3: who did say that it's not offensive, but it is unprofessional. Jesse,

732
00:35:24,927 --> 00:35:27,767
Speaker 3: what goes through your mind and someone' say hey mate,

733
00:35:27,887 --> 00:35:28,447
Speaker 3: how are you going?

734
00:35:28,527 --> 00:35:30,407
Speaker 4: It is so neutral to me that I don't even

735
00:35:30,447 --> 00:35:33,447
Speaker 4: hear it. I absolutely use it in the workplace. I

736
00:35:33,487 --> 00:35:35,247
Speaker 4: used to work behind a bar for years and years

737
00:35:35,727 --> 00:35:38,807
Speaker 4: always said mate, I like it because it's gender neutral,

738
00:35:39,007 --> 00:35:40,287
Speaker 4: a concert to men.

739
00:35:40,167 --> 00:35:41,567
Speaker 2: And women, so you say mate to women.

740
00:35:41,847 --> 00:35:46,287
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I wonder if one of the reasons

741
00:35:46,527 --> 00:35:49,847
Speaker 4: if I have got this gender dynamic, correct, did an

742
00:35:49,927 --> 00:35:53,207
Speaker 4: older man not like being called mate by a younger woman?

743
00:35:53,807 --> 00:35:57,887
Speaker 4: And is it because the word mate infers equality? And

744
00:35:57,927 --> 00:36:01,807
Speaker 4: that's why I think that it's uniquely Australian because everyone's

745
00:36:02,047 --> 00:36:04,447
Speaker 4: your mate. It kind of suggests that there's no hierarchy,

746
00:36:04,487 --> 00:36:05,647
Speaker 4: that we're all on the same level.

747
00:36:06,127 --> 00:36:08,407
Speaker 1: And there are some thought she should have been subservient.

748
00:36:08,567 --> 00:36:10,727
Speaker 4: Yes, I wonder if that's what it was about, that

749
00:36:10,767 --> 00:36:13,887
Speaker 4: he should have been sir or something that kind of.

750
00:36:14,247 --> 00:36:17,367
Speaker 1: My king, my king, that it was too informal.

751
00:36:16,967 --> 00:36:20,047
Speaker 4: It was too informal, and that she should because sometimes

752
00:36:20,047 --> 00:36:21,767
Speaker 4: they teach you. I remember it when I worked at

753
00:36:21,807 --> 00:36:23,807
Speaker 4: this pub. It was they wanted you to say sir

754
00:36:23,847 --> 00:36:25,527
Speaker 4: and Ma'm like as a way of.

755
00:36:25,567 --> 00:36:27,847
Speaker 2: At the pub at the pub, and I was like, I.

756
00:36:27,847 --> 00:36:30,807
Speaker 4: Will, over my dead body, I will just not be referring.

757
00:36:30,967 --> 00:36:33,207
Speaker 4: And I also think it makes people feel old and

758
00:36:33,247 --> 00:36:33,967
Speaker 4: I think I just.

759
00:36:34,047 --> 00:36:35,687
Speaker 2: Think someone younger than you exactly.

760
00:36:36,127 --> 00:36:38,527
Speaker 4: Sometimes I see it in the eyes of people who

761
00:36:38,567 --> 00:36:40,567
Speaker 4: are like giving you a coffee or whatever, where they

762
00:36:40,647 --> 00:36:44,807
Speaker 4: choose whether they're going to go with you know, dull, ma'm.

763
00:36:45,287 --> 00:36:49,327
Speaker 1: Pet pet petal love sweetheart.

764
00:36:49,407 --> 00:36:51,527
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't think we should be choosing spur of

765
00:36:51,527 --> 00:36:53,407
Speaker 4: the moment. I think it makes people feel judged. I

766
00:36:53,407 --> 00:36:54,367
Speaker 4: think we just go mate.

767
00:36:54,567 --> 00:36:55,767
Speaker 1: Eating mates a safe bet.

768
00:36:55,807 --> 00:36:56,447
Speaker 4: I think it's safe.

769
00:36:56,487 --> 00:36:59,367
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the word mate and how its

770
00:36:59,487 --> 00:37:05,167
Speaker 1: versatility is possibly what can make it problematic, because how

771
00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:08,087
Speaker 1: it's intended might not be how it's received. So tone

772
00:37:08,127 --> 00:37:10,567
Speaker 1: and setting and subject all these things can completely alter

773
00:37:10,647 --> 00:37:12,887
Speaker 1: the definition of the words. So you can call your

774
00:37:12,887 --> 00:37:15,167
Speaker 1: best friend mate with great affection, right, So that's the

775
00:37:15,207 --> 00:37:18,007
Speaker 1: way I think most people would be thinking about it

776
00:37:18,047 --> 00:37:21,767
Speaker 1: in this context, like mate, have you been? You know?

777
00:37:22,127 --> 00:37:25,367
Speaker 1: But you can also address a complete stranger as mate

778
00:37:25,607 --> 00:37:28,167
Speaker 1: in an unfamiliar encounter, particularly if you don't know their name,

779
00:37:28,207 --> 00:37:30,607
Speaker 1: if you've forgot their name. Mate or babe are the

780
00:37:30,687 --> 00:37:31,527
Speaker 1: two easy ones.

781
00:37:31,607 --> 00:37:35,007
Speaker 4: Yep. Luca has said to me before, actually we've been

782
00:37:35,047 --> 00:37:38,087
Speaker 4: doing exciting at home and I've gone something like listen here,

783
00:37:38,447 --> 00:37:40,287
Speaker 4: like just use the word mate to Luca, and he

784
00:37:40,327 --> 00:37:43,527
Speaker 4: has said that gives me that he really doesn't like

785
00:37:43,567 --> 00:37:45,607
Speaker 4: it in a romantic relationship. Because it is.

786
00:37:46,127 --> 00:37:48,127
Speaker 1: It's quite snarky.

787
00:37:48,567 --> 00:37:53,207
Speaker 4: It's snarky, but it's also very unsexual. Yeah, like, that's true.

788
00:37:53,287 --> 00:37:54,607
Speaker 4: It's a little bit distant.

789
00:37:54,927 --> 00:37:57,367
Speaker 1: Do you use it? But there's other ways. I've got

790
00:37:57,367 --> 00:38:02,607
Speaker 1: more ways. It can be a complete sentence like may

791
00:38:02,807 --> 00:38:07,647
Speaker 1: like that's almost. That can also convey exasperation. And then

792
00:38:07,647 --> 00:38:10,807
Speaker 1: if you say it like bead ly, like with a

793
00:38:10,807 --> 00:38:14,167
Speaker 1: bit of a snap in your voice, it can make

794
00:38:14,207 --> 00:38:17,807
Speaker 1: it very clear that you're pissed off, like mate, you're

795
00:38:17,847 --> 00:38:21,407
Speaker 1: in my car spot. Yeah, yeah, anyone said that to me, Yeah,

796
00:38:21,447 --> 00:38:22,207
Speaker 1: just yesterday.

797
00:38:22,487 --> 00:38:24,567
Speaker 4: It feels more aggressive than if they said you're in

798
00:38:24,567 --> 00:38:26,087
Speaker 4: my car correct. Absolutely.

799
00:38:26,167 --> 00:38:28,407
Speaker 1: And then old mate maybe she called him old mate

800
00:38:28,407 --> 00:38:31,087
Speaker 1: even like that. I actually like old mate. And then

801
00:38:31,127 --> 00:38:33,647
Speaker 1: when we often will say to Holly or you, like

802
00:38:33,687 --> 00:38:37,207
Speaker 1: if I'm talking about Jordan Peterson, I'll go, your mate

803
00:38:37,487 --> 00:38:38,687
Speaker 1: is in the need, which is like.

804
00:38:40,287 --> 00:38:40,767
Speaker 2: Figure out.

805
00:38:41,047 --> 00:38:43,487
Speaker 1: So there's so many different ways to use it, and

806
00:38:43,527 --> 00:38:47,007
Speaker 1: that's why I think maybe it can be misinterpreted. Sometimes

807
00:38:47,247 --> 00:38:48,527
Speaker 1: I'm similar to Luca.

808
00:38:48,847 --> 00:38:51,407
Speaker 3: I never use the word mate. I hate it, but

809
00:38:51,527 --> 00:38:54,327
Speaker 3: I will use the word mate when I'm talking to

810
00:38:54,567 --> 00:38:56,807
Speaker 3: certain men to make sure that they know I don't

811
00:38:56,807 --> 00:38:57,727
Speaker 3: want to have sex with them.

812
00:38:58,487 --> 00:39:02,247
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Okay, play that out. How does it work? Well?

813
00:39:02,287 --> 00:39:04,527
Speaker 3: If a guy comes up to me and he's like, hey,

814
00:39:04,607 --> 00:39:06,487
Speaker 3: can I buy you a drink or anything?

815
00:39:06,767 --> 00:39:07,567
Speaker 2: No thanks, mate?

816
00:39:08,607 --> 00:39:08,807
Speaker 1: Yeah?

817
00:39:08,887 --> 00:39:10,607
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a very no.

818
00:39:11,047 --> 00:39:13,887
Speaker 1: This is platonic. Yeah, because if you just went no thanks,

819
00:39:14,007 --> 00:39:16,527
Speaker 1: it would thank you. It would open'd be like, oh

820
00:39:16,727 --> 00:39:18,807
Speaker 1: can I get you something out? I love it when

821
00:39:18,807 --> 00:39:22,127
Speaker 1: men call me mate, really, I really do. I also

822
00:39:22,247 --> 00:39:23,447
Speaker 1: like the women call me mate.

823
00:39:24,007 --> 00:39:24,647
Speaker 4: What's friendly?

824
00:39:24,807 --> 00:39:26,887
Speaker 1: When my kids called me mate, they're taking the pierce.

825
00:39:27,287 --> 00:39:31,207
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, you're right mate, our executive producer who

826
00:39:31,287 --> 00:39:33,407
Speaker 4: I think this context is important because we are missing

827
00:39:33,407 --> 00:39:38,007
Speaker 4: the British perspective in Hollywood. I think you should give

828
00:39:38,487 --> 00:39:42,847
Speaker 4: a Monsurian accent. She was saying that when she first

829
00:39:42,887 --> 00:39:44,967
Speaker 4: got to Australia she found it aggressive, that it was

830
00:39:44,967 --> 00:39:48,127
Speaker 4: something that in a different context can feel like, hey, mate,

831
00:39:48,247 --> 00:39:51,047
Speaker 4: can just feel like I guess it can feel quite

832
00:39:51,127 --> 00:39:54,327
Speaker 4: bloky and aggressive. I can kind of see how that would.

833
00:39:54,647 --> 00:39:57,887
Speaker 1: It can be a bit like the precursor to some

834
00:39:57,927 --> 00:40:01,367
Speaker 1: biffo like yeah, like it can almost be an insult,

835
00:40:01,527 --> 00:40:03,527
Speaker 1: like an aggressive challenge to someone.

836
00:40:03,607 --> 00:40:06,647
Speaker 4: But the ones I'm hearing a lot lately, are hey boss?

837
00:40:06,767 --> 00:40:08,567
Speaker 4: Do you hear this like I hear it at the gym?

838
00:40:08,647 --> 00:40:10,607
Speaker 1: Queen? My daughter calls me queen.

839
00:40:10,767 --> 00:40:12,287
Speaker 2: That's so cute.

840
00:40:12,407 --> 00:40:14,927
Speaker 1: She doesn't know like, I don't care, Like I'll just

841
00:40:14,927 --> 00:40:15,767
Speaker 1: be called anything.

842
00:40:16,047 --> 00:40:18,687
Speaker 4: How about hate Chapman, Buddy?

843
00:40:19,607 --> 00:40:20,167
Speaker 1: I like buddy.

844
00:40:20,207 --> 00:40:22,727
Speaker 2: I think buddy, Hey Buddy, Hi buddy, buddy.

845
00:40:23,847 --> 00:40:27,927
Speaker 4: Kids Reddit thread said why don't you just call them friend? Hey? Friends?

846
00:40:28,047 --> 00:40:31,127
Speaker 1: I say that sometimes. I'll say hey friend if I

847
00:40:31,167 --> 00:40:32,887
Speaker 1: can't remember someone's name, often to.

848
00:40:32,847 --> 00:40:34,367
Speaker 4: The person at the cafe or the.

849
00:40:35,847 --> 00:40:39,807
Speaker 1: No, but someone who I'm familiar with. Actually, not just

850
00:40:39,887 --> 00:40:42,207
Speaker 1: people that I say sweet. I don't say a lot,

851
00:40:42,327 --> 00:40:45,647
Speaker 1: hey sweetie, hey friend. I'll say hey friend. That's like

852
00:40:45,727 --> 00:40:46,447
Speaker 1: an affectionate.

853
00:40:46,607 --> 00:40:49,527
Speaker 4: What's your term of endearment for the lovely person behind

854
00:40:49,527 --> 00:40:51,287
Speaker 4: the counter when you're doing your grocery shopping? What do

855
00:40:51,287 --> 00:40:51,767
Speaker 4: you call them?

856
00:40:51,927 --> 00:40:54,407
Speaker 1: Thanks? Your a legend. I'll call them. I use them

857
00:40:54,687 --> 00:40:57,687
Speaker 1: like a noun, like a legend. I won't say mate, No,

858
00:40:58,167 --> 00:41:00,767
Speaker 1: I won't say buddy. I won't say I say you're

859
00:41:00,887 --> 00:41:01,487
Speaker 1: a babe.

860
00:41:01,807 --> 00:41:02,047
Speaker 2: Yeah.

861
00:41:02,447 --> 00:41:04,767
Speaker 1: I won't call them anything. I don't know. I've got

862
00:41:04,767 --> 00:41:07,687
Speaker 1: a friend who calls waiters darling. Female waiters I don't.

863
00:41:08,087 --> 00:41:09,967
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I think she's never been a

864
00:41:09,967 --> 00:41:10,927
Speaker 1: waiter and I have been.

865
00:41:11,447 --> 00:41:12,207
Speaker 4: I don't hate it.

866
00:41:12,407 --> 00:41:13,647
Speaker 1: You don't like you don't want darling?

867
00:41:13,767 --> 00:41:16,727
Speaker 4: Darling? Well, it depends on the tone and whether or

868
00:41:16,807 --> 00:41:19,847
Speaker 4: not it's condescending. But if they're being complimentary, I'm happy

869
00:41:19,887 --> 00:41:20,847
Speaker 4: for them to call me anything.

870
00:41:20,887 --> 00:41:24,047
Speaker 1: But yeah, oh no, I don't mind. I use that

871
00:41:24,127 --> 00:41:25,447
Speaker 1: as a term of affection too.

872
00:41:26,287 --> 00:41:30,167
Speaker 4: As the boss in this room. Yeah, is it unprofessional?

873
00:41:30,527 --> 00:41:32,407
Speaker 4: If I was using mate a lot in the workplace

874
00:41:32,447 --> 00:41:33,087
Speaker 4: in meetings?

875
00:41:33,207 --> 00:41:35,167
Speaker 3: There was a time where you hated when we said, dude,

876
00:41:35,207 --> 00:41:37,007
Speaker 3: do you remember that, you made like a full announcement

877
00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:38,207
Speaker 3: stop calling people too.

878
00:41:38,607 --> 00:41:39,367
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was weird.

879
00:41:39,447 --> 00:41:42,607
Speaker 1: I was someone who once started working here and had

880
00:41:42,687 --> 00:41:48,887
Speaker 1: just met me started calling me bestie my time. Yeah,

881
00:41:49,127 --> 00:41:51,607
Speaker 1: I think language is fun. I like people to play

882
00:41:51,607 --> 00:41:52,407
Speaker 1: with language.

883
00:41:52,487 --> 00:41:55,007
Speaker 3: So we ask people in the mumumme office who've moved

884
00:41:55,047 --> 00:41:57,807
Speaker 3: to Australia some of the phrases they did not understand.

885
00:41:57,847 --> 00:41:58,687
Speaker 2: Here's what they said.

886
00:41:59,807 --> 00:42:04,607
Speaker 6: My favorite Australian scene, possibly my favorite scene hands down

887
00:42:04,887 --> 00:42:08,687
Speaker 6: from anywhere, is I'm not here to fox fiders because

888
00:42:08,687 --> 00:42:11,687
Speaker 6: it makes sense, but at the same time, it actually

889
00:42:11,687 --> 00:42:14,367
Speaker 6: makes a lot of sense. And I'm also just waiting

890
00:42:14,527 --> 00:42:17,087
Speaker 6: to finally meet the cherson who actually is here for

891
00:42:17,207 --> 00:42:19,807
Speaker 6: fuck spiders. That would be a very special day for me.

892
00:42:20,247 --> 00:42:22,647
Speaker 9: So when I first moved to Australia from New Zealand,

893
00:42:22,887 --> 00:42:27,007
Speaker 9: we would always go to barbacues and drinks with a chiliban,

894
00:42:27,407 --> 00:42:29,287
Speaker 9: and so I'd be telling everyone to put everything in

895
00:42:29,327 --> 00:42:31,687
Speaker 9: the chiliban, or like where's beer? And I'm like, well,

896
00:42:31,727 --> 00:42:34,847
Speaker 9: in the chiliban and you call it eski here, which

897
00:42:34,887 --> 00:42:37,207
Speaker 9: is actually after the brand where there. We're quite literal

898
00:42:37,247 --> 00:42:38,967
Speaker 9: on New Zealand, and we call it a chili ban,

899
00:42:39,047 --> 00:42:41,087
Speaker 9: so something that you get chilled under them.

900
00:42:41,327 --> 00:42:44,207
Speaker 5: Okay. So when I first moved to Australia, some very

901
00:42:44,207 --> 00:42:47,367
Speaker 5: lovely mums at the school gates said, you know, come over.

902
00:42:47,647 --> 00:42:50,767
Speaker 5: I got a few people coming. Bring a plate. I

903
00:42:50,767 --> 00:42:52,847
Speaker 5: thought this was a little strange. I was like, I

904
00:42:52,887 --> 00:42:54,687
Speaker 5: can bring a plate. I will bring a plate. But

905
00:42:54,727 --> 00:42:56,407
Speaker 5: then I was like, do I put food on the plate?

906
00:42:56,487 --> 00:42:56,927
Speaker 9: Surely not.

907
00:42:57,207 --> 00:42:58,087
Speaker 5: I don't understand.

908
00:42:58,207 --> 00:42:59,607
Speaker 1: Anyway, I turned up.

909
00:42:59,727 --> 00:43:03,167
Speaker 5: I had a pack of emergency Sos tim Tams in

910
00:43:03,207 --> 00:43:06,687
Speaker 5: my bag, but I also had a plate just in case,

911
00:43:07,327 --> 00:43:10,367
Speaker 5: and I've got lots of expat friends here who have

912
00:43:10,447 --> 00:43:11,167
Speaker 5: all confessed the.

913
00:43:11,167 --> 00:43:14,047
Speaker 1: Same We had no idea. Out Louders, I'm sure you've

914
00:43:14,087 --> 00:43:16,767
Speaker 1: got your own head to the Outlauders Facebook group and

915
00:43:16,847 --> 00:43:20,727
Speaker 1: share them with us. That's it from us today, out Louders.

916
00:43:20,767 --> 00:43:22,887
Speaker 1: We could go on, but our producers are hovering with

917
00:43:22,927 --> 00:43:24,407
Speaker 1: a taser to stop us talking.

918
00:43:24,487 --> 00:43:27,847
Speaker 4: Good luck, out louders. If you enjoyed Amelia Lester on

919
00:43:27,887 --> 00:43:30,087
Speaker 4: the show last week, then you'll probably love our US

920
00:43:30,167 --> 00:43:34,007
Speaker 4: election subscriber episodes. I learned so much about Milania Trump

921
00:43:34,207 --> 00:43:36,287
Speaker 4: because Amelia, of course sat down and read the whole

922
00:43:36,287 --> 00:43:38,487
Speaker 4: book beginning to end. So if you want to hear that,

923
00:43:38,527 --> 00:43:40,447
Speaker 4: there's a link to that episode in the show notes.

924
00:43:40,527 --> 00:43:44,727
Speaker 1: Bye. Shout out to any Muma Mia subscribers listening. If

925
00:43:44,767 --> 00:43:47,367
Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well,

926
00:43:47,567 --> 00:43:49,967
Speaker 1: subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way

927
00:43:49,967 --> 00:43:52,047
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode

928
00:43:52,087 --> 00:43:52,487
Speaker 1: description