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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Muma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: I think the first five times I played that song,

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Speaker 1: I broke down. Afterwards we had to play it at

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Speaker 1: the very end, and now we still play at the

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Speaker 1: very end because that's just a remnant of me crying

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Speaker 1: after us. But I was also so sweaty that he

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Speaker 1: has just kind of went into the sweat and no

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Speaker 1: one would notice it was.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hello, and welcome to But are you Happy? The

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Speaker 2: podcast that asks the questions you've always wanted to know

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Speaker 2: from the people who appear to have it all. Dave

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Speaker 2: Bailey is a musician and the lead singer of British

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Speaker 2: indie rock band Glass Animals, whose music you've most definitely heard.

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Speaker 2: Glass Animals had the number one song in the world

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Speaker 2: with heat Waves, which went viral on TikTok and was

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Speaker 2: number one in the Triple J Hottest one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty before topping charts all over the world world,

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Speaker 2: including in the US. It was the top of the

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Speaker 2: Billboard Hot one hundred for five weeks in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and it actually broke the record for the longest charting

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Speaker 2: song on the Hot one hundred of all time, longer

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Speaker 2: than anything by Taylor Swift or Beyonce or Ed Sheeran.

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Speaker 2: Glass Animals were performing in Sydney around the time we

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Speaker 2: recorded this, and our producer Tarlie went to the show.

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Speaker 2: She asked a few people why they love Glass Animals

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Speaker 2: so much and what their music means to them.

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Speaker 3: I love them so much because I feel like their

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Speaker 3: music has accompanied so many important moments of my life,

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Speaker 3: and whenever I listen to that, I think about like

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Speaker 3: the triumphs and the sadness, and the friendships and the

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Speaker 3: relationships that have sort of bloomed around that music. Daved

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Speaker 3: writes some most beautiful, heartfelt lyrics, and the nostalgia just

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Speaker 3: takes me back, and like the heartache just brings me forward.

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Speaker 2: I've been listening to him for the boss six seven

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Speaker 2: years now, just really takes me back and looking forward

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Speaker 2: to what they've got to offer over the next couple of.

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Speaker 3: Months, transformation over what ten fifteen years, We're looking back

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Speaker 3: at what our.

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Speaker 4: Favorite songs are, and my favorite songs are kind of

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Speaker 4: from the first album.

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Speaker 3: So we went to their show in twenty seventeen in London,

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Speaker 3: so it was really kind of nostalgic.

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Speaker 2: Dave Bailey is a fascinating human being. I caught him

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Speaker 2: in a moment in his life where he's really grappling

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Speaker 2: with meaning and purpose and whether his pursuit of music

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Speaker 2: is ultimately selfish.

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Speaker 1: I've been asking myself that questions like is this a

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Speaker 1: selfish thing to do? Should I have stuck with what

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Speaker 1: I was doing? Was that more selfless? Would that help

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Speaker 1: more people? Because ultimately, wanting to be a doctor, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to help people.

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Speaker 2: Dave was studying medicine when he decided to take a

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Speaker 2: break to pursue music, and he was always tossing up

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Speaker 2: whether to go back. Then he wrote the biggest song

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Speaker 2: in the world. What does that feel like for Dave?

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Speaker 2: His career changed and his life changed, but not necessarily

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Speaker 2: in the way you'd expect. When he sings heat Waves

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Speaker 2: on stage in front of crowds at Glastonbrie or Coachella,

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Speaker 2: it means something very different to him than what it

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Speaker 2: means to other people in that crowd.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a subject matter of the song, like

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Speaker 1: hearing it everywhere? Is it kind of haunted by this?

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Speaker 1: This thing.

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Speaker 2: Here's my chat with Dave Bailey. Dave Bailey, you are

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Speaker 2: the lead singer for Glass Animals, and indie rock band

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Speaker 2: that a lot of listeners will know from your biggest

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Speaker 2: hit single, heat Waves, which you wrote and produced. Heat

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Speaker 2: Waves went viral on TikTok it won the Triple J

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Speaker 2: Hottest one hundred in twenty twenty. Australia has a bit

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Speaker 2: of a claim to being the tastemakers when it comes

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Speaker 2: to that, and it stayed at the top of charts

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Speaker 2: all over the world for years. In January twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: it was the most played song globally on Spotify. You

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Speaker 2: were nominated for Best New Artist at the Grammys in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Nominated for two brit Awards. You've played

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Speaker 2: festivals like Coachella and Glastonbury. You've reached what some might

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Speaker 2: consider the peak of a career in music. Behind all that,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to start by asking how are you right now?

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Speaker 1: Right now? Yeah, I'm I've just come off a plane.

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Speaker 1: I feel really good. I'm really excited to be here. Mainly,

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Speaker 1: I feel like Australia has always had a special place

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Speaker 1: in my heart Because a lot of things began here.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? Why does Australia seem

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Speaker 2: to get it quicker than everybody else?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you've got a really amazing

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Speaker 1: creative network here, from musicians to people like yourself, and

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Speaker 1: it's just a very positive creative force and backing here.

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Speaker 1: That's really Yes, it's a special place and things tend

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Speaker 1: to like happen here at first when it wasn't working

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Speaker 1: anywhere else in the world. It Yeah, I've actually I've

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Speaker 1: got a tattoo of Australia my bum.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I saw an interview about that and they

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Speaker 2: couldn't work out do you have Tasmania on the right side?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, because there was billion times because I think it

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Speaker 2: was a mirror to the photo. So they were like,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to be rude about your tattoo, but

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Speaker 2: Tasmania is not on that side.

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Speaker 1: I checked so many unless the tattoo artists did me dirty,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I've checked so many times. I think

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Speaker 1: I took that picture in a mirror.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, yes, yes, okay, good, but.

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Speaker 1: I'm I haven't. I can't look at it. It's just

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Speaker 1: one of those places like trying to look at your own.

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Speaker 2: The story of your career is a fascinating one because

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Speaker 2: while a lot of people might have discovered you in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty and beyond, you'd released your first EP eight

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Speaker 2: years before that, and you'd achieved success in the music industry.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty fourteen you had a single go platinum.

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Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, your album How to Be a Human

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Speaker 2: Being was nominated for the Mercury Prize. But then in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two you have the biggest song in the world.

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Speaker 2: And I'm fascinated by how those two versions of success feel.

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Speaker 2: And are you happier? Are you tangibly happier when you've

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Speaker 2: done what you unconsciously probably wanted to do your whole life?

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Speaker 1: I guess that's quite a big question, is that what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do my whole life? Is that the

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Speaker 1: meaning of success? I don't know. Like success for me

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Speaker 1: was always being able to make another album or keep

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Speaker 1: making music in the first place. Such a privilege to

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Speaker 1: be able to make music at all. For me, it's

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Speaker 1: always been a thing that you do as a hobby,

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Speaker 1: as the extra curricular. I grew up in that kind

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Speaker 1: of household, so to be able to call it like

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Speaker 1: a job because it feels really strangely even say it,

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Speaker 1: but it is a career, oh gosh.

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Speaker 2: And so when heat Waves happened, it's a new level

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Speaker 2: of success in that you probably know I can keep

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Speaker 2: doing this for a bloody long time, that you've reached

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Speaker 2: the peak of commercial success in music. From the outside,

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Speaker 2: does that feel different?

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Speaker 1: I guess there's a certain amount of like security that

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Speaker 1: comes from that. But I think the real kind of

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Speaker 1: joy of it comes from the freedom that the success

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Speaker 1: of that song allowed, which was I don't think anyone

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Speaker 1: expected it. I think we'd kind of made these slightly

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Speaker 1: underground records very much on our own, and we're given

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Speaker 1: a lot of freedom and making those records, and then

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Speaker 1: when something like this popped out of it, people were like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you did, but go ahead and

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Speaker 1: keep doing it, and that is an amazing thing. Like

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Speaker 1: that is really lucky.

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Speaker 2: And do you feel like the success of it was

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Speaker 2: because it came from that authentic place where it didn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of different people in it. When it

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Speaker 2: comes to your music, you're quite independent in how you

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Speaker 2: do it. Do you think there was something about the

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Speaker 2: core of that authenticity that made it resonate possibly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking about a lot. I always wonder

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Speaker 1: why that one, But I think I think it is that.

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Speaker 1: I think the first record was I didn't know anyone

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Speaker 1: in music, didn't know anything about music. I was just

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Speaker 1: making music alone in a bedroom, like really quietly at night,

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Speaker 1: and really shy about it. And you can hear that

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Speaker 1: in the first record, and it's not very personal, very abstract.

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Speaker 1: Second album, it's kind of stories about other people that

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Speaker 1: I'd met. And then this third album was much more personal,

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Speaker 1: personal stories but memories, and this song spun out of

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Speaker 1: there and it was probably the most personal of that

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Speaker 1: collection of songs album three, and it just made me

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Speaker 1: realize that it's okay to write like really personal stuff.

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Speaker 1: It made me realized that that's actually what resonates the most.

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Speaker 1: I was always too shy to do it myself, But

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Speaker 1: now that I've seen iterienced it, I see that, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of my favorite songs, favorite artists, I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge Beach Boys fan, those are really personal songs.

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Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, Dave talks about the story

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Speaker 2: behind his number one song, heat Waves, and the tension

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Speaker 2: that comes from garnering enormous success off the back of

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest tragedies in your life. Heat Waves

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Speaker 2: is about losing a friend, Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it must be quite surreal to be

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Speaker 2: performing a song that gives people a lot of happiness.

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Speaker 2: When you're performing it, people are in the moment experiencing joy,

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Speaker 2: but the subject matter of the song is not necessarily that.

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Speaker 2: How do you go with navigating the tension between having

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Speaker 2: a song that's about dark subject matter make people happy.

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Speaker 1: It's tough. You have to onto that happiness when you

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Speaker 1: see the happiness in people's faces, but it's not always

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Speaker 1: happiness that Sometimes you see someone in the front road

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Speaker 1: crying and it hits you and you I think the

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Speaker 1: first five times I played that song, I broke down afterwards.

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Speaker 1: We had to play it at the very end, and

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Speaker 1: now we still play at the very end because that's

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Speaker 1: just a remnant of me crying afterwards. But I was

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Speaker 1: also so sweaty that tears just kind of went into

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Speaker 1: the sweat and no one would notice, as it was okay.

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Speaker 1: There's an optimistic side to the song, and you have

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Speaker 1: to latch onto that. It's like you're trying to remember

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Speaker 1: the good things and be positive about a situation that

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Speaker 1: is absolutely awful. Yeah, and you just cling onto it

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Speaker 1: for dear life until the song's over. That's the trick.

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Speaker 2: And when you were writing it, you were also going

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Speaker 2: through a really difficult time because one of your band members, Joe,

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Speaker 2: had an accident in Dublin. Yeah, how did you cope

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Speaker 2: with that? And how scary did it get in terms

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Speaker 2: of thinking that music might be over and that glass

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Speaker 2: animals might not be a thing anymore.

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Speaker 1: It was very scary. I did think it was over

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Speaker 1: for a while. As soon as it happened, I went

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Speaker 1: like straight out. So I didn't realize quite how awful

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Speaker 1: the accident was until I got there because his dad

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Speaker 1: called me. I remember the phone call like vividly, and

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Speaker 1: I it was like book the flight for like six

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Speaker 1: am the next morning. Got there. His dad had played

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Speaker 1: it down so much on the phone, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: sink until that exact moment when I saw his face

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Speaker 1: and wow, I mean this is going to sound a

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Speaker 1: bit graphic, but like this he'd been hit by a

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Speaker 1: truck basically, so like seeing the state of his head

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Speaker 1: was so so shocking, and that was when I was like,

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Speaker 1: I obviously jumped first, like is he going to be okay,

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Speaker 1: and then a few days later it starts to think, like, gosh,

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Speaker 1: all of this stuff is going to fall apart around it.

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Speaker 1: It was sad, and we didn't know for about a week.

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Speaker 2: God, and you were studying medicine before you went in

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Speaker 2: to music, so you actually kind of knew how scary

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Speaker 2: a brain injury could be. What were your fears everything.

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Speaker 1: I think my fear was that what really was most

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Speaker 1: likely to happen would happen. I think there was a

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Speaker 1: very very good ninety five percent chance that a very

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Speaker 1: large amount of brain damage would have happened. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: he survived. It was that level of accident, And that's

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Speaker 1: your fear that your friend has gone and I've lost

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Speaker 1: a couple of friends, and then losing another one, especially

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Speaker 1: best friend, like that was just going to be There

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Speaker 1: was going to be a lot.

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Speaker 2: Do you think moments like that as horrifying as they are,

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Speaker 2: do you think they put things in to perspective that,

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Speaker 2: for example, there's almost something poetic about something so horrific happening.

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Speaker 2: Then you achieve all this success, and you probably have

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Speaker 2: a really good sense of what's important and what's not

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Speaker 2: important because you had been.

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Speaker 1: Through that hugely. Yeah, I think it just made me

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Speaker 1: feel absurdly lucky to be able to make music at

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Speaker 1: all and do anything at all with Joe. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: incredibly It's a very lucky, very lucky position.

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Speaker 2: And is he okay now?

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Speaker 1: He's amazing Now? Basically he had one surgery that just

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Speaker 1: changed the whole trajectory of his recovery. And shout out

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Speaker 1: to this amazing surgeon who came to the last show

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Speaker 1: we did. It was an island show, lived in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: and the surgeon came to the show and it was

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Speaker 1: just like everyone was looking around at each other crying.

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Speaker 1: Joe's dad was there with the surgeon. They were like embracing, weeping.

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Speaker 1: And then I looked up and I was embracing, and

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Speaker 1: we've been I looked over at show. I was like okay,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, what's wrong. It's like.

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Speaker 2: When you met your bandmates, you were at school and

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Speaker 2: you were stunnying medicine. Yeah, so then you dropped out

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Speaker 2: of medicine to pursue music. Did you ever feel like

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Speaker 2: you'd made a mistake?

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Speaker 1: Many times? My mum certainly did. She asked for about

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Speaker 1: five six years after that, she was asking me if

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Speaker 1: I was going to go back. When I was going back,

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Speaker 1: she asked my friends when I was going to go back.

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Speaker 1: She begged my friends to tell me to go back.

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Speaker 1: There are times that was one of them. We didn't

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Speaker 1: know if Joe would make a full, full recovery, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that we'd go on as a band

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Speaker 1: without him. So there was a moment there where I

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Speaker 1: was I didn't think it was a mistake dropping out,

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Speaker 1: but I did think that there are moments like that

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Speaker 1: where I thought it was over where, even after the

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Speaker 1: first album came out. Actually, so that's pre Joe's accident.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of it went well, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: hugely successful at the beginning. It took a minute, It

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Speaker 1: took a long time actually, and then it took like

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Speaker 1: two years. Yeah, so as soon as it came out,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, that was a really fun I'm

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Speaker 1: probably gonna end up going back.

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Speaker 2: The choice between staying at UNI and studying and doing music.

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Speaker 2: Was that a choice you made based on what made

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Speaker 2: you happy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot about happiness in there. That was

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Speaker 1: a big turning point in my life. A lot happened

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Speaker 1: in my life at that point, that's kind of where

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Speaker 1: that heat Wave song came in. My best friend had

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Speaker 1: ended his life at that point, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I've just got to take a break and rethink things

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Speaker 1: I need to focus on that. I actually couldn't because

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Speaker 1: it was like exam period. So I did the exams

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm taking a year out. I

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Speaker 1: have to absorb everything that's happened and makes sense of

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Speaker 1: all this. And he was always the person who encouraged

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Speaker 1: me to do music. Wow, And I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna keep rolling with it, see what happens. And

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Speaker 1: he was right, yeah, how old were you? I was

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Speaker 1: twenty at that point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you choose to do music.

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Speaker 1: But I went to the head of the university. It

295
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Speaker 1: was like, can I take a year to go do

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Speaker 1: this music? And she laughed at me. She was like, ah,

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Speaker 1: like she's had it before, I think many times. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I'm sorry. A lot has happened

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Speaker 1: and I just want to sort my head out and

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Speaker 1: music is how I do that.

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Speaker 2: Once you made that decision and you're doing music, you

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Speaker 2: were DJing for a bit.

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Speaker 1: I was teaching for a bit to kind of pay

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Speaker 1: my way through school.

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Speaker 2: As well, and what's that like As a creative person.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever have a moment of worrying that you

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Speaker 2: were turning the thing you loved most in the world

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Speaker 2: into a job and that you might then start to

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Speaker 2: hate it.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good question, and I think about that

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Speaker 1: a lot. I think that at the time, it almost

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Speaker 1: felt like a necessity, and music was like a kind

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Speaker 1: of therapy. I was quite a shy person. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: really like a I didn't even think about like performing

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Speaker 1: at all. I didn't really want to perform. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: that person at school. Wasn't like an actor, wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the debate team or anything. I was like the shy

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Speaker 1: kid in the chess club, and music was just the

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Speaker 1: way to put things down and get things out a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 2: How do you stay almost pure to the creative process

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Speaker 2: when you also have in your head this creative process

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Speaker 2: has to make an album, and that album has to

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Speaker 2: pay my bills. How do you make sure those don't

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Speaker 2: get mixed up?

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Speaker 1: It's very, very, very hard. I've struggled with that a lot.

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Speaker 1: That's probably one of the things I've struggled with most

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years. But you have to

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Speaker 1: absolutely make sure you're carving out the time to do

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Speaker 1: that thing that makes you feel grounded, and that for

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Speaker 1: me is making music or spending time with like old friends,

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Speaker 1: and just making sure your concrete platform is solid and

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Speaker 1: you're going back and returning to those things. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people lose that. I lost it for

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Speaker 1: a long time.

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Speaker 2: When did you lose it?

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Speaker 1: Post pandemic, post heat waves? There was just a lot

338
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Speaker 1: floating around, a lot of opportunities floating around, and I

339
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: took all of them because I was like, who am

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Speaker 1: I going to turn any of this stuff down? Like

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Speaker 1: it's amazing doing writing sessions every day, I was producing,

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Speaker 1: I was working on music for films. I was just

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Speaker 1: balancing around trying to be an extrovert when I really

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Speaker 1: really am not an extrovert. And you just have to

345
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Speaker 1: make sure you set aside that time to do the

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Speaker 1: music is like that thing that keeps me sane. You

347
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Speaker 1: just have to make sure you're doing it every day,

348
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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's very, very very hard.

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Speaker 2: That period I find really interesting because you were given

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Speaker 2: all sorts of opportunities to be in rooms with people

351
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Speaker 2: that there are people who would kill to be in

352
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Speaker 2: rooms with certain writers, certain artice. How did you decide

353
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Speaker 2: that it wasn't for you and start deciding what to

354
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Speaker 2: say yes and no to.

355
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Speaker 1: Well, it's not that it wasn't for me. It's just

356
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Speaker 1: a balance. You just have to make sure you're doing

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Speaker 1: the other the core as well. I don't think I

358
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Speaker 1: was very happy. I was in a weird place after that,

359
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 1: to be completely honest, and started going to therapy. I

360
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 1: started like trying to work out what was wrong. And

361
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Speaker 1: that's kind of where this latest album came from, was

362
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Speaker 1: trying to work out what was wrong here. I don't

363
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Speaker 1: think I was very happy in that sense of like

364
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Speaker 1: a lot of things in my life that were going well.

365
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Speaker 1: I was so happy about success. I'm so happy about

366
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Speaker 1: like you have friends that I have, and like my

367
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Speaker 1: relationship with my parents was great. All that was good,

368
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Speaker 1: but there was something deeply that was just like so wrong.

369
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Speaker 1: At the same time, it was odd. I was kind

370
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Speaker 1: of torn into bits, felt very detached from reality.

371
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Speaker 2: So you had had from the outside the most success

372
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Speaker 2: you'd ever had. From the outside. If somebody was looking

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Speaker 2: at your Instagram, the photos are incredible. The life you're living,

374
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Speaker 2: it's the absolute dream. But you weren't feeling it.

375
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Speaker 1: No, But I mean the Internet presence is the curated,

376
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: happy version of everything, and maybe that's part of what

377
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 1: made me feel like I had to do all those

378
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: things and be at everything and say yes to everything.

379
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Speaker 1: Like look on as soon as you look at the Internet,

380
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Speaker 1: you see like, Oh, this person's writing with this person,

381
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Speaker 1: this person's done this, this person so this, and you're

382
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: just comparing yourself over and over again. You're like, God,

383
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 1: I need to say yes to everything and do it,

384
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Speaker 1: oh and be everywhere. And I just completely left that, Like,

385
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Speaker 1: I don't think I ever spend any time like alone

386
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Speaker 1: writing for who knows how long years, probably two years.

387
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Speaker 2: And that's the thing that you love doing.

388
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Speaker 1: Well, that's the one thing that makes me feel like

389
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Speaker 1: me it's what pulled me out that whole. However, many

390
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Speaker 1: years ago when I started writing, and then I've kind

391
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: of realized that I'd forgotten about it again.

392
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Speaker 2: You became quite quickly in some senses and quite slowly

393
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: in other senses. You became a recognizable faith. And so

394
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Speaker 2: I imagine you're walking down the street and people are like, Hey,

395
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: that's Dave. When you meet people, do you feel pressure

396
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: to be a version of them that they'll really appreciate

397
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Speaker 2: because of who you are, and you know, it's a

398
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: huge moment in their lives, and how do you manage

399
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: that with just being who you are in the moment.

400
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Speaker 1: I was in that position before. I'd bump into, like

401
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: someone I really admired on the street, and I'd like,

402
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: sometimes you end up leaving those situations really upset, like, Oh,

403
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: that person was really mean and that's broken my heart.

404
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: I can't listen to that music anymore. I never want

405
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 1: to do that to anybody. So there was a bit

406
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: of pressure there. Like I was really influenced by those

407
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: kinds of people when I was a kid, just because

408
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: those people who'd written those songs that were so wise

409
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: in such a big part of my life, and they'd

410
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: say something to me in real life, I'd be like,

411
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: WHOA like? And so yeah, I just try to keep

412
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: that in the back of my mind the whole time

413
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: I bump into people.

414
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Speaker 2: For you, it's just kind of another interaction for them.

415
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: It's something they're going to think about forever.

416
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: But no, I think about it a lot too. I do.

417
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: I actually do those really important interactions, and they make

418
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Speaker 1: me really happy and it's absolutely lovely to bump into

419
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: people and have a conversation about music or something. The

420
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: thing unless I get a bit more like wary of

421
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,959
Speaker 1: is photographs and things like that. It's just I'm very

422
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: happy to stop and talk to someone. That's fine.

423
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something almost performative about the photograph. I can

424
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: kind of see that if you're just going about your

425
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: life that you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, i'll have

426
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: a chat. But then somebody taking a photo You're like, oh,

427
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: I wasn't ready.

428
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: For I know, it does happen sometimes you step, you

429
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: go onto the internet and look at like you're tagged

430
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: stuff and you're like, that is really creepy. Someone just

431
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: took a photo of me when I was like doing

432
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Speaker 1: my shopping. Wow, so weird.

433
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Speaker 4: Wow.

434
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: So you're just like aware there is this kind of

435
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: constant feeling like you're slightly being what And I think,

436
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: you know what. I just have to kind of get

437
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: used to that, and that's fine. It's part of this

438
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: career that I didn't really think about at the beginning,

439
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: and I appreciate I have to get used to that's

440
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: what it is. But it happened in a very strange circumstance,

441
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: and maybe that's why I'm struggling to wrap my head around.

442
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people that happens quite gradually.

443
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: And we release that album in the pandemic, and we're

444
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: sitting in my pants eating cereal watching it all happen,

445
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: and it didn't really feel real. When the world finally

446
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: opened up again, it was just so different, all of

447
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: a sudden, like it's two years since from when that

448
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: record came out to when we were really allowed to

449
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: be in public again.

450
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 2: That probably is quite a bizarre way to have that

451
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 2: moment because you don't get to see the incremental That's

452
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: like seeing a crowd and then seeing a bigger crowd

453
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: and then noticing that they're singing the words to your song,

454
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: and then having some of the biggest crowds in the

455
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: world singing the lyrics to your song. Do you think

456
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: that that contributed to the fact that it didn't feel real?

457
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. So it was such a sudden

458
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: shift for me personally. I think in the rest of

459
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: the world it was probably gradual, but I wasn't witnessing it,

460
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: and it was like reading the emails with the statistics

461
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden boom out in the

462
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: real world. You can see it or it hits you

463
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: like a wave. Yeah, it's quite long, it's quite mad.

464
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: It's a great wave. But it knocked me off my

465
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: feet for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

466
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 2: I always think that being in a band would be

467
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: the funnest way to be famous because you get to

468
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: do it with your friends, and so you get to

469
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: share in the joy and the success. Do you also

470
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: have difficulties in Obviously you've got to kind of navigate

471
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: decision making, what you say yes to, what you plan

472
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 2: around with other people. Is that a challenge?

473
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: It's a massive challenge. Yeah, you really care about these people.

474
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: In a lot of careers, there's this very defined hierarchy

475
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: and this kind of top down approach, and there's a

476
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: reason it exists. There four people, it's very easy to

477
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: be divided too, and two and the democracy doesn't work

478
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: so well for decision making, as I've witnessed, from choosing

479
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: a press photo to the kick drum sound in a song.

480
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: Everything is tough. This is one of the things my

481
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: hero is. Actually I love a very specific band that

482
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: I grew up with changed my life. Dove into their

483
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: records when I was about thirteen. I was moving from

484
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: America to England, and I was listening to these records

485
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: because it was a big move and it reminded me

486
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: of home. So I was listening to these records and

487
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: I remember hearing an interview where the lead songwriter was like,

488
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: don't start a band with your friends, because there's no

489
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: better way to end a friendship. And then I went

490
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: and did it. Yeah, yeah, and there element where like, yeah,

491
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: it was right. It's very very hard. You have to

492
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: put a lot of effort into that side of things.

493
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: You have to remember that you have to say friends. Yeah.

494
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: If you lose that side and you just become like

495
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: business colleagues, it's probably a bit broken.

496
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: The only way I can relate to it is I

497
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: work with my sister quite a bit, and we're lucky

498
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: in that with a sibling you can just be a

499
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: total bitch. I can say that's a terrible idea, and

500
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 2: she says, well, you're terrible, and we can have it

501
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 2: out and then two minutes later we're fine, and you

502
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: like that with the band. Now, have the boundaries eroded

503
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: because of how close you've had to become.

504
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've known each other for so long since those

505
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: really formative years of like twelve thirty or fourteen, like

506
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: we go away with like a brotherhood situation, so it

507
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: can be quiet. I imagine it's quite weird to witness,

508
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: but to be honest, I'm not the argumentative one. It's

509
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: and I love watching the others there too, particularly sometimes

510
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: rob each other out the wrong way. It's very funny.

511
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm the sneaky brother. He's just watches with popcorn from

512
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: the side.

513
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: They're like, yes, you have it, yeah, yeah, And if.

514
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: They're not fighting enough, I'll be like yeah. But then

515
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: he said this start some shit.

516
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: Has there been a particular moment that you can think

517
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: of where the world told you you'd be happy and

518
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 2: you weren't. So you had everything from the outside, but

519
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: deep down it wasn't feeling joyous.

520
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: Let's go for touring, for instance. I think people see

521
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: the curated version of the tour on the internet and

522
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: they think, Wow, what fun party. I'm not going to

523
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: say it's a bad thing, because I love it, but

524
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: it's a grind. You're stuck in a metal tube with

525
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: twelve people who smell for three months, and you're waking

526
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: up as I am to do your radio stuff, and

527
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: then you're going and seeing the label, and then you're

528
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: going to do sound check, and then you're doing a

529
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: meet and greet, and then you're doing the show, and

530
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: then you then like your mom's there, and it can

531
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: be a grind. I'm not complaining about it, because I

532
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: do absolutely love it. But I've had like my brother

533
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: on tour before, I've had the friends on tour before,

534
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: and a week is fun. My brother stayed for like

535
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: two weeks and by the end of the two weeks

536
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: he was like, I am done. I'm spent.

537
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: I reckon that would be as an introvert, I reckon

538
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: that would be my worst nightmare.

539
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Everywhere you look there are people.

540
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can't have a moment to yourself.

541
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: There's no alone time. Yeah, Like it's very fun. A

542
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: lot of my best memories are being on tour, but

543
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: there are moments where you're like, god, I wish I

544
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: had a nine to five. Yeah, like really big moments

545
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: is the greatest thing. And all of my best memories

546
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: come from touring. A lot of people kind of come

547
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: into touring for a year and they're just like no,

548
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: And then there are things like performances on Yeah, a

549
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: lot of the performance itself, but doing like a TV show,

550
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: So it's so nerve wracking. It's really nerve for me

551
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: at least. I'm sure some people absolutely love it, but

552
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: for someone who's had no experience doing any kind of

553
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: performance ever, and yeah, it's it's a lot.

554
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: When you have a huge success, do you worry about

555
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: trying to recreate it? Is it four years between albums?

556
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: In those four years, were you anxious about trying to

557
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: recreate that lightning moment where it exploded? And is that

558
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure?

559
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: I was putting a lot of pressure on myself initially,

560
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: and maybe that was kind of like deferring that by

561
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: doing all the other stuff, doing the writing, doing the

562
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: working on films, going to events, stuff like that. Maybe

563
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: I was just kind of pushing it away, working on

564
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: how the hell am I going to do this? I

565
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm gonna you know, maybe the that

566
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: was it, But ultimately it kind of came to the

567
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: realization that you basically just have to forget about all

568
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: of that success. Nothing good is going to come from that,

569
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: so you just have to go back to where that

570
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: came from, which is spending time alone writing. And I

571
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: found that again and stopped worrying about recreating anything, because

572
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: that's not why I got into it in the first place.

573
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: That's a very healthy attitude.

574
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I got there eventually. Well, I didn't

575
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: think I had that attitude initially. It took me a minute.

576
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: I can imagine that you got some financial success by

577
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: something blowing up. Do you think money buys happiness?

578
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: No, I can tell you it doesn't. There's a comfort

579
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: level and that really applies to touring in a big

580
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: way because we have a busy yep, we have a

581
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: bus and we can eat better food and things like that.

582
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: That is actually a really really big thing. You can

583
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: kind of afford to eat more healthily. You're not just

584
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: eating it like a petrol stops having snack bars and chocolate.

585
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: That is a real thing. But for me, it's never

586
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: really been about that. I've been asking myself what it's

587
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: about a lot lately, and that's a huge question. And

588
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: I've heard some terrible answers to that question.

589
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: But what told me about it answer?

590
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to drop people in it. But one

591
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: of the biggest musicians in the world, the Big Dog,

592
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: told me that. I don't know if I agree with

593
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: his answer at all, but they told me that something

594
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: inside of you is telling you your special when someone

595
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: once told you you would dirt and I was like,

596
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: that is not a good reason. It's basically revenge. Yeah,

597
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't say it at that. I

598
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: was like, I just don't think.

599
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: You know what, though, I have a theory that that

600
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: mentality is about fame, not about music. I think people

601
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: who want fame are and it's coming from a point

602
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: of wanting to prove something. But I agree that there's

603
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: something different if you're just pursuing something creatively that happens

604
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: to come with the fame side of things. Do you

605
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: have a sense that with music, comparing it to when

606
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: you were studying medicine? Do you worry that is music

607
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: helping people? Am I being a good person by doing music?

608
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: Do you beat yourself up with that?

609
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: Exactly? That's why I've been asking myself that question. It's like,

610
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: is this a selfish thing to do? Should I have

611
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: stuck with what I was doing? Was that more selfless?

612
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: Would that help more people? Because ultimately wanting to be

613
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: a doctor, I wanted to help people. And maybe this

614
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: comes back to when I first started doing music and

615
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: that big turning point going from medicine to music was

616
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: my best friend at that point was not happy and

617
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: that led to the worst thing that could possibly happen.

618
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: And I think there's something that since that moment, I've

619
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: been kind of trying to find a way to. Like

620
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: what I've come down to is that maybe it's trying

621
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: to like spread happiness or make like make people know

622
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: it's okay to feel like that, it's not a dead end,

623
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world. And that's kind

624
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: of that's where I'm at with the answer at the minute,

625
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: Like it's okay to be sad sometimes, and that is

626
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: what I really relate to in a lot of music,

627
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: is that you hear a sad song, You're like, oh wow,

628
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: it's okay, Like that person's okay, It's all right.

629
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: Up next, Dave talks about grappling with a question of

630
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: whether a career in music is ultimately selfish and whether

631
00:33:52,880 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: what he does actually helps people. I think that thing

632
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: that you're grappling with around is pursuing the thing I'm

633
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: passionate about, the thing I'm clearly drawn to in a

634
00:34:13,319 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 2: really profound way, is that selfish. I think that's quite

635
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: relatable for a lot of people. No matter what they do,

636
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 2: because it's the choice between the thing that brings you

637
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: joy and satisfaction and the thing you almost feel like

638
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: you should be doing because that's what society tells you

639
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: you should be doing. But from the outside, can I

640
00:34:35,759 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: just say that, as naf as it is, music really

641
00:34:40,879 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 2: does help people. It really does, and yours in particular.

642
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind. But maybe I've came up with

643
00:34:48,919 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: the answer and then realized maybe I've twisted the truth

644
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,559
Speaker 1: to make myself feel better about having not been like

645
00:34:56,319 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: something that really saves people. But yeah, I don't know.

646
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: I'm still still working out the answer to that. It's

647
00:35:03,359 --> 00:35:04,639
Speaker 1: a tough one, but.

648
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: I think that idea of it's okay to feel sad,

649
00:35:08,919 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: and it's almost more nuanced than that. It's like, it's

650
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: okay to feel the full range of human emotions and

651
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,159
Speaker 2: exactly probably the way in their day to day life

652
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 2: that a lot of people connect with that is music.

653
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: It's the quickest, most mindful way to feel something that

654
00:35:25,959 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: isn't the distraction of what's in your face moment to moment.

655
00:35:31,359 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: But I do find it really interesting that a person

656
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,599
Speaker 2: in your position battles with that, even though you're giving

657
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 2: a gift to other people. It's like, oh, but am

658
00:35:39,879 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: I being selfish? Should I pursue this other route? It's

659
00:35:43,439 --> 00:35:46,119
Speaker 2: a big battle, yeah, and I think I think there's

660
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: probably a lot of people who don't ask themselves that question.

661
00:35:49,399 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: Probably right, yeah, But I don't know. I've come to

662
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: a very pessimistic thing at the moment, where like something

663
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: bad again, but like happiness is quite like like short,

664
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: these little like blips we're like, whoa habit? Where does

665
00:36:03,279 --> 00:36:09,039
Speaker 1: it come? But comes from like it's like a fucking sorry. Yes,

666
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: it's like a beam of light coming down from the

667
00:36:11,879 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: sky and like boom, you're happy and you're like, I

668
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: don't even know why. Cool. You can't just maintain this

669
00:36:17,359 --> 00:36:20,559
Speaker 1: constant level of happiness and you can't keep trying to

670
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,119
Speaker 1: like do that for other people. You it's just an impossibility.

671
00:36:24,759 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: I'm kind of trying to work out the answer now,

672
00:36:26,399 --> 00:36:28,599
Speaker 1: which is probably too big a thing for right now.

673
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: But like when you're okay with dealing with the other

674
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: emotions and like being like, oh, I'm really pissed off

675
00:36:35,319 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: right now, it kind of automatically is like and that's

676
00:36:38,399 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: all right. You can't Yeah, you don't have to be

677
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,039
Speaker 1: happy right now, it's all right.

678
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,959
Speaker 2: And I think telling yourself that you have to be

679
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: happy ironically makes us less happy and makes feel really

680
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,159
Speaker 2: guilty and shameful, which is.

681
00:36:51,279 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: Big time and awful. Such a huge push for it

682
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: at the moment, I feel with the way the internet works,

683
00:36:55,879 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: it's like everyone's showing the happiness. It's quite an intense

684
00:36:59,959 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: thing to you know. I try to limit my amount

685
00:37:01,919 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: of time on the internet for that reason, because you're like,

686
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: look at all these happy, happy people happy all the time.

687
00:37:07,959 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: They've posted five times, so they're all so happy. I

688
00:37:10,959 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: feel like I've kind of stopped trying to like chase

689
00:37:14,279 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 1: being happy myself. It just kind of happens. Sometimes it's

690
00:37:18,399 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: flipping great. I love it, but stop trying to like

691
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: be it all the time. It's just a kind of impossibility.

692
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: It's maybe a lot easier to appreciate those happy moments

693
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: instead of constantly constantly doubting them and wondering when it's

694
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 1: going to go away.

695
00:37:33,799 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: Or if it's like happy enough, If you're feeling happy.

696
00:37:36,759 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: Enough, this is pretty good.

697
00:37:37,959 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. From what you've seen of I

698
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: guess the most successful version of musicians, and I'm sure

699
00:37:49,879 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: you've rubbed shoulders with all sorts of people. I was

700
00:37:52,879 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: going to bring up going to the Grammys, but you

701
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 2: had COVID and you didn't go to the Grammys when

702
00:37:58,479 --> 00:37:59,999
Speaker 2: you were nominated for Perst New Artist.

703
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, guys, that's the saddest thing. I mean, you

704
00:38:03,799 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: say it's sad, but I, like I'd say it wasn't

705
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: just sad. I was like, oh, I really wanted to

706
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: go to the Grammys. Not necessarily for myself. I felt

707
00:38:11,399 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: like it was going to like because all these amazing

708
00:38:14,439 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: people who had been listening to our music for a

709
00:38:15,839 --> 00:38:18,039
Speaker 1: long time, and it was like going for them in

710
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: a way, and going for like my mum and the

711
00:38:19,759 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: people who'd supported me through all this chaos, and choosing

712
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: to ditch a perfectly good career for one that seemed

713
00:38:26,839 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: absolutely unbelievable. But there was a bit element of relief

714
00:38:31,959 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: as well, because it's a stressful thing. I get quite

715
00:38:34,759 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: a bit like, whoa, this is a very surreal situation.

716
00:38:38,319 --> 00:38:41,079
Speaker 1: I'm not like, yes, I get to go on a

717
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: red carpet. It's a strange thing going on a red carpet.

718
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,519
Speaker 2: You've done the brit Awards, Yeah, do you enjoy it?

719
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: What's the vibe, meeting celebrities.

720
00:38:51,919 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: I find those kind of things quite strange. Maybe this

721
00:38:55,759 --> 00:38:58,519
Speaker 1: is too honest. I don't want to. I try to

722
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: enjoy them a lot, and I do enjoy them because

723
00:39:00,799 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: I get to meet some lovely people and people. I

724
00:39:03,439 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: speak to people about music and things that they're doing

725
00:39:06,319 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: that I am so passionate about. And I learned a

726
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: huge amount from people in those situations. I really really do.

727
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: But there's a very strange element where you are wearing

728
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,479
Speaker 1: a wild outfit walking down a carpet and there's a fence. Yeah,

729
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: it's quite odd. Yeah, and I'm slightly aware of that too.

730
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,519
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I've never been the person who like saw

731
00:39:27,879 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: those events and be like, I so wish I was

732
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: there anything to be there. But it's really nice.

733
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,639
Speaker 2: There's certain things about your private life that you seem

734
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,559
Speaker 2: to have kind of good boundaries in terms of what

735
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: you talk about what you don't talk about, And given

736
00:39:45,319 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: that a lot of your music people know is autobiographical,

737
00:39:50,439 --> 00:39:54,519
Speaker 2: that must be a bit of an intentional decision. Is

738
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: there a reason that you don't share a lot about

739
00:39:59,319 --> 00:40:00,999
Speaker 2: relationships or anything like that.

740
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,999
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in a way, i'd say I share

741
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: quite a lot about relationships. If you listen to the music,

742
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,999
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's all the secrets, some of the secrets,

743
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: Like there's got more songs in me, probably more things

744
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: to talk about, hope. No, I do actually seem to

745
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: have found like a rhythm at the minute. And yeah,

746
00:40:22,879 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: I just think if I have like family and friends

747
00:40:25,959 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: and relationships, they haven't chosen to I've kind of chosen

748
00:40:30,439 --> 00:40:33,599
Speaker 1: to go down this road, and I appreciate what comes

749
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,599
Speaker 1: with it. Maybe I didn't know at first what came

750
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,519
Speaker 1: with it, but I do appreciate the things that come

751
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,119
Speaker 1: with it, and I'm trying to embrace them. They didn't

752
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:41,559
Speaker 1: choose that.

753
00:40:42,479 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: I think that must be an interesting line to walk

754
00:40:44,879 --> 00:40:47,999
Speaker 2: between what is your story to tell and what's not

755
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: your story?

756
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: Maybe that's.

757
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,159
Speaker 2: So you've got a new album, uh huh coming out

758
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,479
Speaker 2: in July, tell us about it.

759
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like exploration about happiness. Isn't it

760
00:41:03,319 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: funnily enough? But it's I had an existential crisis, and

761
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: I guess we spoke about that a little bit. Coming

762
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: from this like sense of detachment and the success of

763
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: the last album kind of happening while I wasn't really

764
00:41:15,879 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: allowed to be part of it almost. It was happening

765
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: during COVID and I was watching it all happen and

766
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: then was kind of thrust out into it. And I

767
00:41:24,399 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: was so detached from that success in a weird way

768
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: that it spun me out big time. And then it

769
00:41:32,879 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: kind of all came to a head. I got this

770
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: like job writing for other people in La, went to

771
00:41:38,759 --> 00:41:42,039
Speaker 1: La to do this. I've got this airbnb, sweet deal,

772
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: really cheap, So why is it so cheap? Got there

773
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: and moved into the airbnb and realized why it was so.

774
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: She was just falling off a cliff. Oh wow, and

775
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: had these like stilts that was so like ten times

776
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: as follows the house holding this thing up on this cliff.

777
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,039
Speaker 1: And I was like, cool, I can go on with this.

778
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: But then this huge storm came massive, so one of

779
00:42:01,359 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: the biggest storms that's happened in La in like a century.

780
00:42:03,879 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: They said, it's called the Atmospheric River. It's raining, their

781
00:42:06,439 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: trees falling down the mountain. There's like landslide warnings everywhere

782
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: by phone. You know when your phone goes like marriage

783
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: like landslide warning. Everyone, stay indoors, do not try to

784
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: go outside. All this stuff. So I was like stranded

785
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,559
Speaker 1: in this house during this storm, and I moved the

786
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,559
Speaker 1: bed if like the bed was kind of on the

787
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: stilts end of the house and there's one bit connected

788
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: to the rock. I picked up the mattress and I

789
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: dragged it across the house, put it by the mountain,

790
00:42:27,959 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm going to die. This is

791
00:42:29,919 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: the end. And it kind of all came to a head.

792
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: I was finally forced to like spend time alone for

793
00:42:36,839 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: the first time in years, and was kind of forced

794
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: to confront all this and I kind of asked myself, like,

795
00:42:44,799 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: what does all this mean? Am I happy? Is this happiness?

796
00:42:47,799 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: Chasing all this stuff? And I kind of reached out

797
00:42:49,799 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: and tried to grab something and I grabbed Like what

798
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: I landed on was like that human connection is the

799
00:42:54,439 --> 00:42:57,519
Speaker 1: most important thing. So that's what this is about. It's

800
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 1: about like trying to pull myself back onto this like

801
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: rock that is human connection from that existential crisis. Wow,

802
00:43:07,439 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: kind of trying to claw my way back to what

803
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: the meaning of life is and what does make you happy?

804
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's an interesting metaphor the house on the cliff,

805
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,559
Speaker 2: and it's a bit of a blessing in disguise. But

806
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,959
Speaker 2: it forced you to stay there and get this out.

807
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean in the face of death, you write

808
00:43:24,279 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 1: very very quickly. And I wrote the whole album there

809
00:43:26,359 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: in that little house. Yeah.

810
00:43:27,439 --> 00:43:27,599
Speaker 4: Yeah.

811
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,999
Speaker 2: How long did it take to go?

812
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: About two and a bit weeks. Yeah. The thing is

813
00:43:31,759 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to do a space album, and I never

814
00:43:34,439 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: really worked out how to do it. Almost felt very cold,

815
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: like space is gold and quite heartless and stuff. And

816
00:43:40,279 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 1: then I finally found when I was in that house.

817
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,559
Speaker 1: I kind of it was in that existential crisis that

818
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: felt very much like space is vacuum, and kind of

819
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: reached out and grabbed that thing. And that's how I

820
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: finally made that connect. Like you can write these really

821
00:43:53,879 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: personal stories about hum connection but framed by the excidential

822
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,079
Speaker 1: reframe by these like space sounds, but the core these

823
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: really human love stories.

824
00:44:01,959 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: Basically, Dave Bailey, your band Glass Animals had the biggest

825
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: song in the world, and you've played at some of

826
00:44:09,799 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 2: the world's biggest festivals on some of the biggest stages.

827
00:44:13,759 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 2: But if you look at your life right now, are you.

828
00:44:16,879 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: Happy right now in this moment? I'm happy. Yeah, I

829
00:44:20,839 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 1: would say I am happy. I have to think it's

830
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 1: a very big question. But I think if I was

831
00:44:28,479 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: to do the simple answer, I say, yeah, I'm very happy.

832
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: Thank you. Does anyone ever ask you if you're happy?

833
00:44:35,439 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 2: Sometimes people do, and I'm like, oh, we don't want.

834
00:44:37,799 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: To get That's why I started this whole podcast, happiness

835
00:44:42,399 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: in general.

836
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 2: Ask other people. My chat with Dave was one of

837
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 2: my favorite conversations I've ever had on this podcast. I

838
00:44:52,879 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: think it's really common for people who have creative pursuits,

839
00:44:56,879 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 2: whether that's music or acting or art or media or podcasting,

840
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: to really wonder about the purpose of it. Is this

841
00:45:05,359 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 2: helping anyone? Is this indulgent? Why do I get to

842
00:45:08,919 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 2: do this and other people are doing jobs at the

843
00:45:11,879 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: same time that save lives? But music, I think is

844
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: one of the most powerful avenues for happiness. It allows

845
00:45:19,879 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 2: us to access the full range of human emotions in

846
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: an incredibly mindful way. It's the backdrop to our lives.

847
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 2: I know music plays in the background of some of

848
00:45:29,439 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: my most precious memories. This conversation also highlighted how sometimes

849
00:45:35,279 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: it's the moments we achieve the external markers of success

850
00:45:38,879 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: and feel like something is wrong that are the most clarifying.

851
00:45:42,839 --> 00:45:45,599
Speaker 2: It forces you to confront who you actually are and

852
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: what actually matters to you, and sometimes it's different to

853
00:45:49,399 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: what you imagined. Join me next week for a conversation

854
00:45:54,439 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: with media personality, youth worker, podcaster and author Brook Blurton

855
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 2: about processing trauma, balancing the pursuit of individual happiness with

856
00:46:03,919 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: the needs and struggles of your community, and the moment

857
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: she found love on national television and received news of

858
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: a personal tragedy at the same time.

859
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,999
Speaker 4: She's a bachelorette, you know, and all of these comments

860
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 4: and tabloids and etc. To then being in an ABNB

861
00:46:22,279 --> 00:46:25,159
Speaker 4: by yourself organizing a funeral for your sister that you've

862
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 4: just lost. It's just I don't not want to place

863
00:46:28,279 --> 00:46:29,159
Speaker 4: myself there ever again.

864
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,959
Speaker 2: In the meantime, if you want to listen to last

865
00:46:32,959 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: week's episode, I spoke to actor and Gowery Rice and

866
00:46:36,359 --> 00:46:40,039
Speaker 2: her mum Kate about what success looks like at such

867
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 2: a young age and how a parent navigates their child's

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Speaker 2: career in Hollywood, and Gowery spoke about her previous roles

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Speaker 2: and how she deals with criticism, while Kate spoke about

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Speaker 2: her experience being in the acting industry and what she

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Speaker 2: worries about regarding ang Gowery. If you enjoyed the podcast,

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00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,479
Speaker 2: please review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. If

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Speaker 2: you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, you can

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Speaker 2: get in touch with me directly. My Instagram handle is

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Speaker 2: Claire dot Stevens, or you can email us here at

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Speaker 2: podcast at mamameya dot com dot au. This episode was

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Speaker 2: produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik.

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Speaker 2: See you next week.