WEBVTT - Icy In-Laws & 'Boring' Husbands. Marian Keyes Is Here To Help. 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.767 --> 0:00:20.847 that this podcast is recorded on. I don't think my 0:00:20.967 --> 0:00:24.287 daughter in law likes me. I'm not sure what it 0:00:24.407 --> 0:00:28.567 is I've done wrong. My team thinks that I'm their therapist. 0:00:29.607 --> 0:00:33.647 I can't lose weight no matter what I do. My 0:00:33.727 --> 0:00:36.927 best friend ghosted me and my heart is broken. My 0:00:37.047 --> 0:00:42.047 hairdresser's highlights have failed. My husband doesn't understand my perry phase. 0:00:42.807 --> 0:00:45.807 I'm never good enough for my mother in law. I'm 0:00:45.887 --> 0:00:49.167 lonely help. I don't want to go to my best 0:00:49.167 --> 0:00:54.007 friend's baby shower because for me, the IVF just won't work. 0:00:54.687 --> 0:00:59.807 Behind every problem, every question, a story, a small hurt 0:01:00.327 --> 0:01:03.087 or a big one, a betrayal. We can't admit to 0:01:03.647 --> 0:01:10.607 someone who's done us wrong. Hello, I'm Holly Wainwright and 0:01:10.727 --> 0:01:18.527 I am mid midlife, midfamily, midfix. Today we are solving problems, 0:01:19.007 --> 0:01:22.847 your problems like the ones you just heard. And when 0:01:22.887 --> 0:01:26.807 I say we, I mean we, because sitting beside me 0:01:26.847 --> 0:01:30.127 today to talk through your troubles is a hero of mine. 0:01:31.087 --> 0:01:37.367 One Marian Keys. Marian says that she started writing books 0:01:37.407 --> 0:01:41.887 four thousand years ago but actually it was only thirty 0:01:41.967 --> 0:01:45.167 years ago. I bet that you have read at least 0:01:45.207 --> 0:01:48.567 one Maryan Keys, and if you've read one, you've probably 0:01:48.647 --> 0:01:53.207 read I don't know fifteen. Her first Watermelon, was published 0:01:53.247 --> 0:01:56.327 in nineteen ninety five, and ever since, the way she 0:01:56.447 --> 0:01:59.447 spins up the sticky themes of our real lives with 0:01:59.527 --> 0:02:02.767 wicked humor and big dollops of heart and irish wit 0:02:03.287 --> 0:02:08.327 have made her both incredibly successful and beloved. She has 0:02:08.367 --> 0:02:11.967 written twenty four books now and sold more than there 0:02:12.007 --> 0:02:15.607 are zeros to count. And not only is this woman 0:02:15.647 --> 0:02:19.007 one of the most successful novelists of her generation. Not 0:02:19.047 --> 0:02:22.487 only has she shared her hilarious natural storytelling with the world, 0:02:22.767 --> 0:02:26.487 but she's also shared herself. Because Marian has written about 0:02:26.487 --> 0:02:30.087 depression and alcoholism and loss, and these are things that 0:02:30.167 --> 0:02:33.047 she has lived as well as written. And if you, 0:02:33.567 --> 0:02:36.327 like me, are just a little bit obsessed with Mary Keys, 0:02:36.687 --> 0:02:39.847 you'll know there's something else she does too. A podcast 0:02:39.887 --> 0:02:42.807 of her own for the BBC called Now You're Asking 0:02:43.247 --> 0:02:46.287 with fellow writer and great friend Tara Flynn, and on 0:02:46.327 --> 0:02:50.447 that they answer listener's questions with as much heart as expertise. 0:02:51.167 --> 0:02:53.727 So when Marian was in Sydney, recently for an event 0:02:53.807 --> 0:02:57.087 to celebrate her lady's book, My Favorite Mistake, which I 0:02:57.167 --> 0:03:00.207 was lucky enough to host for her. I couldn't resist 0:03:00.607 --> 0:03:03.047 asking her to come and tell me how things are going, 0:03:03.847 --> 0:03:06.367 update me on the world and on the Walshisters, who 0:03:06.407 --> 0:03:09.087 she's written so many books about that you love, and 0:03:09.447 --> 0:03:13.567 also to help us with some of those sticky mid 0:03:13.807 --> 0:03:17.047 questions of yours. Come sit with us and let solve 0:03:17.047 --> 0:03:20.967 some problems. Marian, thank you so much for being here 0:03:20.967 --> 0:03:21.567 with me today. 0:03:21.727 --> 0:03:22.647 Thank you for having me. 0:03:23.047 --> 0:03:24.727 I know that all the mid audience are going to 0:03:24.727 --> 0:03:26.927 be so excited that you're here. We were talking of 0:03:27.047 --> 0:03:29.207 Mike about how you've had a couple of chats with 0:03:29.247 --> 0:03:31.407 me here before on No Filter, and I'm going to 0:03:31.407 --> 0:03:34.047 put the links to those episodes in the show notes 0:03:34.047 --> 0:03:35.887 on this so people can go back and listen to 0:03:35.887 --> 0:03:39.327 those two. Thank you, because selfishly, I really want to 0:03:39.367 --> 0:03:41.567 talk to you about My Favorite Mistake. 0:03:42.087 --> 0:03:43.527 Thanks. That's not selfish at. 0:03:43.487 --> 0:03:48.767 All, because it's a Welsh family book. Yes am I 0:03:48.927 --> 0:03:51.287 right in that this is the eighth, it's. 0:03:51.127 --> 0:03:54.487 The seventh, but they're all standalones, right in case anyone 0:03:54.567 --> 0:03:54.967 is worried. 0:03:55.127 --> 0:03:56.807 No you don't, Yeah, you don't have to have read 0:03:57.087 --> 0:04:00.527 no but that feature the same family they do. And 0:04:00.567 --> 0:04:03.367 so although they don't, although they're all standalones, the thing 0:04:03.407 --> 0:04:07.087 that's glorious is obviously the characters are all grown up 0:04:07.127 --> 0:04:08.327 now like us. Yeah. 0:04:08.567 --> 0:04:11.567 Yeah, I've been about them for thirty years, and I 0:04:11.727 --> 0:04:16.167 was thirty one, I think when I got started. So yeah, 0:04:16.167 --> 0:04:18.327 as I've aged, they've aged. 0:04:18.607 --> 0:04:21.047 And it's I think there's so much, particularly in this 0:04:21.087 --> 0:04:24.847 book that's wonderful about Anna and this phase of life 0:04:24.887 --> 0:04:26.567 that a lot of our listeners are in. 0:04:27.127 --> 0:04:32.367 Yeah, Anna's forty eight and is invisible to young men 0:04:32.567 --> 0:04:36.167 on the street. She walks through a pile of them. 0:04:36.207 --> 0:04:38.207 They just refuse to make room for her, and she 0:04:38.367 --> 0:04:42.207 just barrels through them out of rage and just the 0:04:42.247 --> 0:04:47.487 fact that they have no manners. And yeah, she's going 0:04:47.527 --> 0:04:52.767 through menopause. She's like genuinely burnt out on a very 0:04:52.767 --> 0:04:57.927 stressful job. She's had a long relationship that has kind 0:04:57.927 --> 0:05:00.087 of run its course, and she doesn't see any point 0:05:00.687 --> 0:05:05.367 in hanging around trying to resuscitate it. And she kind 0:05:05.407 --> 0:05:08.167 of throws her entire life up in the air and 0:05:08.247 --> 0:05:12.967 waits to see where things will land. And she's angry 0:05:13.007 --> 0:05:18.567 and she's hopeful, and she feels still entitled to love 0:05:18.807 --> 0:05:24.807 and to sex and to live in whatever way she 0:05:24.927 --> 0:05:29.287 feels like living. And I've seen that, like I'm older 0:05:29.287 --> 0:05:31.767 than that, I'm sixty one, but I've seen it so 0:05:31.927 --> 0:05:35.527 much in women in their late forties and fifties and older. 0:05:36.047 --> 0:05:39.327 I've just deciding, I've still got like decades of life 0:05:39.327 --> 0:05:43.127 ahead of me, and I don't really enjoy I'm not 0:05:43.167 --> 0:05:45.167 getting the same kind of enjoyment out of my life 0:05:45.167 --> 0:05:48.247 as I have been for the last twenty thirty whatever years, 0:05:48.687 --> 0:05:50.767 And I just want to try living in a different way, 0:05:51.447 --> 0:05:54.887 and I love to see it happen, like in big 0:05:54.927 --> 0:05:57.927 ways in small ways, like last year, I took a 0:05:57.927 --> 0:06:00.007 lot of time off work and I went back to 0:06:00.487 --> 0:06:03.967 college and I did a course just something that I 0:06:04.007 --> 0:06:06.607 had always wanted to do and never really felt that 0:06:06.647 --> 0:06:08.527 it was the right time to do it. But I've 0:06:08.807 --> 0:06:12.087 seen people but like leave marriages or you know, or 0:06:12.247 --> 0:06:16.287 just take breaks from their marriage or just leave their 0:06:16.407 --> 0:06:21.287 job and decide that they will live very frugally for 0:06:21.327 --> 0:06:26.647 a while until they figure out what they want or 0:06:26.727 --> 0:06:29.487 can do next. You know, there's a feeling that like 0:06:30.567 --> 0:06:36.287 life is for living, and it is not infinite. 0:06:36.927 --> 0:06:41.007 Yeah, it's not infinite. But also it's not done before 0:06:41.047 --> 0:06:41.447 it's done. 0:06:41.527 --> 0:06:43.927 Oh god, absolutely not for as long as we're alive. 0:06:44.007 --> 0:06:44.727 We're alive. 0:06:45.407 --> 0:06:48.487 Yes, I love that you've just said that about this, 0:06:48.527 --> 0:06:51.287 because this is exactly obviously, which was your intention, what 0:06:51.367 --> 0:06:53.607 I got from Anna. So when we meet her at 0:06:53.607 --> 0:06:55.767 the beginning of the book, she's in New York, where 0:06:55.767 --> 0:06:58.047 she's been for a long time, and as she says, 0:06:58.047 --> 0:07:01.727 she's burnt out and she's been through COVID. So and 0:07:01.767 --> 0:07:04.407 then what I love is that when she decides she's 0:07:04.447 --> 0:07:06.367 going to move home, and obviously we're not going to 0:07:06.367 --> 0:07:09.567 do spoilers, but that's pretty much in the book. Are 0:07:09.567 --> 0:07:12.767 a bit like really, and it made me think about, 0:07:13.167 --> 0:07:15.567 you know, when you're making those big changes in your 0:07:15.567 --> 0:07:17.567 life that a lot of people do this stage. Often 0:07:17.607 --> 0:07:18.727 the people around. 0:07:18.407 --> 0:07:22.487 You, they don't celebrate it. They really don't. It's not 0:07:22.807 --> 0:07:26.127 like a movie like, it's really not there. You don't 0:07:26.167 --> 0:07:30.127 get applauded. I mean, in Anna's particular case, she works, 0:07:30.167 --> 0:07:32.887 she does pr for like a load of skincare brands, 0:07:32.967 --> 0:07:35.327 so her sisters and her mother's and her mother are 0:07:35.447 --> 0:07:38.327 used to getting free stuff. And now that she's giving 0:07:38.407 --> 0:07:40.767 up her job. They won't be getting any more free stuff. 0:07:41.087 --> 0:07:43.927 And it is really funny when something people can be 0:07:44.047 --> 0:07:47.887 happy for you in the abstract, but if it impacts 0:07:47.927 --> 0:07:52.607 you negatively, then people stop being happy for you. It's 0:07:52.847 --> 0:07:57.567 very It's just people are complicated, and you know, people 0:07:57.607 --> 0:07:59.767 are always going to kind of react from their own 0:08:00.527 --> 0:08:03.207 their own needs, are their own wants. So no, her 0:08:03.247 --> 0:08:06.407 mother and sisters are really really disappointed and afraid. 0:08:06.847 --> 0:08:10.047 Yes I'm afraid for her, but also for them how 0:08:10.047 --> 0:08:12.767 it impacts them, because as you say, I think that, 0:08:13.487 --> 0:08:15.007 as you say that, people are ready to applaud you 0:08:15.087 --> 0:08:18.287 unless it impacts them or be it makes them wonder 0:08:18.327 --> 0:08:19.087 about their lives. 0:08:19.087 --> 0:08:22.767 Oh that's another thing. Yes, that's another thing. Yes, if 0:08:22.767 --> 0:08:26.727 somebody comes to you and says, you know, I'm leaving 0:08:27.687 --> 0:08:31.847 my husband of whatever number of years, and say, until 0:08:31.847 --> 0:08:33.567 this point you have always thought he was fine, a 0:08:33.607 --> 0:08:36.407 bit boring, but actually really quite boring. But he was okay. 0:08:36.767 --> 0:08:40.927 But then when one person starts leaving their husband, it 0:08:41.127 --> 0:08:45.927 kind of makes one question your own circumstances and thinking, well, 0:08:45.927 --> 0:08:49.047 should I be leaving mine? Or or actually mine is 0:08:49.167 --> 0:08:52.407 less than optimal. You know, you kind of start wondering 0:08:52.407 --> 0:08:57.847 at what point does less than optimal become unsustainable, you know, 0:08:58.007 --> 0:09:02.127 or like if somebody else says, actually, I've decided to 0:09:02.487 --> 0:09:04.767 stop drinking. You know, I actually think I kind of 0:09:04.767 --> 0:09:09.407 have an issue with it, and I'm stopping People who 0:09:09.487 --> 0:09:12.367 might have talked behind your back, you know, about how 0:09:12.367 --> 0:09:15.367 bad you're drinking was up to this point, might suddenly 0:09:15.407 --> 0:09:18.167 think Jesus Christ, know you're fine. You're fine. No, really, 0:09:18.167 --> 0:09:21.287 you're fine. You just overdo it like at birthdays or whatever, 0:09:21.327 --> 0:09:24.567 But you're fine. Because once people, once one person kind 0:09:24.567 --> 0:09:27.367 of changes their life, it makes the people around them 0:09:27.647 --> 0:09:30.887 start looking at their own lives and thinking, should I 0:09:30.927 --> 0:09:34.087 be changing in mind? Do I need changing or fixing? 0:09:34.607 --> 0:09:36.767 Did your family think that feel like that when you 0:09:36.807 --> 0:09:38.127 went did your course last year? 0:09:39.567 --> 0:09:41.407 Why is Marian going back to college? 0:09:41.487 --> 0:09:41.607 No? 0:09:41.807 --> 0:09:45.327 Actually no, they were fairly happy for me. The funny 0:09:45.327 --> 0:09:48.647 thing is, like I studied law like eight million years ago. 0:09:48.727 --> 0:09:51.287 I have a law degree. But one of the women 0:09:51.327 --> 0:09:55.167 that I went through university with, she also went back 0:09:55.207 --> 0:09:58.727 to college last year to study fashion. Like, you know, 0:09:58.807 --> 0:10:03.527 we're in our sixties and I kind of, you know, 0:10:04.207 --> 0:10:07.447 it's much harder to learn new things at this age. 0:10:07.727 --> 0:10:09.167 But you can still do it. 0:10:09.367 --> 0:10:10.647 Yes, it's still. 0:10:10.527 --> 0:10:14.887 Possible, and why not. Yeah, it's so exciting. Yes, when 0:10:15.407 --> 0:10:17.927 you've always been curious about something but the door has 0:10:17.967 --> 0:10:20.647 been blocked to you for whatever reason, and suddenly somebody 0:10:20.687 --> 0:10:23.087 is saying, come in, I'll deconstruct it for you. 0:10:23.407 --> 0:10:24.487 What cost did you go back to? 0:10:24.527 --> 0:10:28.847 You need to do interior design? Yeah, Like, I've always 0:10:28.887 --> 0:10:33.407 loved color and fabric, and as it turned out, it 0:10:33.567 --> 0:10:37.007 wasn't really about that. It was about more fundamentals. Like 0:10:37.287 --> 0:10:39.647 I know this sounds pathetic, but I am really good 0:10:39.687 --> 0:10:42.607 at measuring things now, like and I have a lovely 0:10:42.687 --> 0:10:46.807 eight meter long yellow metal measuring tape that my husband 0:10:47.007 --> 0:10:49.127 bought me, which honestly is one of my most favorite 0:10:49.127 --> 0:10:51.887 things ever. Yeah, so I'm kind of good at the 0:10:51.927 --> 0:10:55.207 technical stuff. And then I had taken enough time off work, 0:10:55.287 --> 0:10:58.207 so you know, I've I've parked it for the moment. 0:10:58.487 --> 0:11:00.127 So have you been putting that to you? So you 0:11:00.247 --> 0:11:02.567 let doing your house? I am need to love it. 0:11:02.687 --> 0:11:07.487 I love it. Yes, Yeah, I am your style. I 0:11:07.567 --> 0:11:10.047 know nothing about interior design, right, but I know that broadly, 0:11:10.087 --> 0:11:13.287 there's like minimalism, and there's like shabby she and there's 0:11:13.967 --> 0:11:17.207 gold toilets. I don't know what's your style. 0:11:17.647 --> 0:11:21.647 It's sort of girly gothic girl. Yeah, like I bought 0:11:21.647 --> 0:11:27.127 an antique wooden carved bed from Portugal, and yeah, kind 0:11:27.127 --> 0:11:30.007 of a lot of black and purple colored wallpapers. It's 0:11:30.447 --> 0:11:35.207 and green glass. It's the spare bedroom. I want people 0:11:35.247 --> 0:11:38.367 to come in and feel sort of mildly uneasy, you know, 0:11:38.447 --> 0:11:40.087 that they're kind of happy to stay for a night, 0:11:40.167 --> 0:11:41.567 but maybe not for much longer. 0:11:42.167 --> 0:11:47.287 God, that's perfection. It's great. So what I loved about 0:11:47.287 --> 0:11:49.847 Anna and the other wallh sisters, but in this book, 0:11:50.247 --> 0:11:53.647 so you nail. And it's not surprising, of course, these 0:11:53.687 --> 0:11:57.447 particular midlife moments, like before she decides because she's, as 0:11:57.487 --> 0:12:00.927 you said, she's going through perimenopause and menopause, and before 0:12:00.967 --> 0:12:04.087 she does get into the HRT, she tries looming for 0:12:04.127 --> 0:12:08.047 a while. She's you know, and which I think is 0:12:08.087 --> 0:12:10.247 so common, is that lots of so like, what's happening 0:12:10.287 --> 0:12:12.567 to me? Yes, I need to find a way to 0:12:12.607 --> 0:12:17.727 man regulate myself. Maybe gardening is my cliched answer. Maybe 0:12:17.807 --> 0:12:21.127 you know, looming or whatever, scrap booking or what those 0:12:21.207 --> 0:12:21.807 kind of things. 0:12:21.927 --> 0:12:24.967 Yeah, upcycling furniture, yes, that was mine for a while. 0:12:25.087 --> 0:12:27.687 Yes, So we grab onto these things and then finally 0:12:27.687 --> 0:12:30.807 we're like, okay, something really is happening. Yeah, and Anna, 0:12:31.007 --> 0:12:34.527 like very many women, including myself, then she's on an 0:12:34.527 --> 0:12:38.767 almost comic but serious quest for our HRT. The doctors 0:12:38.767 --> 0:12:40.607 don't want to give it to her. It's out of 0:12:40.647 --> 0:12:42.487 stock at the chemists. We've all been there. 0:12:42.687 --> 0:12:46.807 Yeah, I mean, it's bizarre, like half of the world's 0:12:46.807 --> 0:12:49.487 population go through this and have done since the dawn 0:12:49.487 --> 0:12:54.007 of time, and like, why has it never been spoken 0:12:54.047 --> 0:12:56.487 about when it is Okay, some people breeze through it, 0:12:56.567 --> 0:12:59.567 and fair play to them, lucky them, but I don't 0:12:59.607 --> 0:13:02.167 want to hear from them, thank you very much, because 0:13:02.207 --> 0:13:06.407 for an awful lot of people, it's incredibly debilitating, because 0:13:06.447 --> 0:13:09.967 it's like adolescence in reverse, and like we can see 0:13:10.087 --> 0:13:13.847 now as adults how awful it is for teenagers, like 0:13:14.007 --> 0:13:17.887 the terror, the change of the moods. They can't regulate, 0:13:18.287 --> 0:13:21.687 the changes in their body, the changes in their identity 0:13:21.687 --> 0:13:25.407 and sense of self. And that's what menopause is, its 0:13:25.527 --> 0:13:29.047 adolescence in reverse, and for an awful lot of people 0:13:29.127 --> 0:13:32.167 it's very, very frightening, and like for me, it wasn't 0:13:32.167 --> 0:13:35.647 so much the hairiness and the hot flushes. It was 0:13:35.687 --> 0:13:40.687 the anxiety, And it was like forgetting people's names, Like 0:13:40.807 --> 0:13:43.567 when that first began to happen, like I thought I 0:13:43.647 --> 0:13:48.047 was getting dementia, and there was no one there to say, oh, 0:13:48.927 --> 0:13:52.727 that's probably part of the menopause. That's probably you know, 0:13:52.967 --> 0:13:54.967 you're depleted in estrogen or whatever. 0:13:55.327 --> 0:13:55.447 Like. 0:13:55.487 --> 0:13:59.207 There hasn't been a road map given to us, Like 0:13:59.407 --> 0:14:03.047 there has been just complete silence about all the possible 0:14:03.087 --> 0:14:05.207 ways that it can affect us. 0:14:06.087 --> 0:14:08.247 I think that's one of the things that's so good 0:14:08.287 --> 0:14:10.247 about this book is that, as we were saying before, 0:14:10.287 --> 0:14:14.047 it's your characters have aged as we've aged, and we 0:14:14.127 --> 0:14:16.647 are seeing these issues being explored in all kinds of 0:14:16.647 --> 0:14:19.847 different accessible ways now, including in our favorite fictional people. 0:14:20.407 --> 0:14:22.167 But before I get onto one of the things that 0:14:22.207 --> 0:14:23.647 I love the most about Anna, which is that she 0:14:23.767 --> 0:14:26.087 still wants to have sex and fall in love, I 0:14:26.207 --> 0:14:28.047 just have to tell you that one of the things 0:14:28.207 --> 0:14:30.087 I'm not sure which one of your characters mentions is, 0:14:30.207 --> 0:14:33.007 but they say that a podcast about murders committed by 0:14:33.047 --> 0:14:38.087 menopausal women against man's plaining men. I was like, that's 0:14:38.087 --> 0:14:39.327 a solid idea. 0:14:39.127 --> 0:14:40.247 That's a great idea. 0:14:40.727 --> 0:14:42.727 When you're done with now you're asking this is your 0:14:42.807 --> 0:14:46.727 ex podcast women who have been wrongly convicted. 0:14:48.167 --> 0:14:54.127 It wasn't their fault. They were pushed beyond human endurance. Yeah, 0:14:54.767 --> 0:14:55.687 that we need that. 0:14:55.887 --> 0:15:00.687 Yes, after this shortbreak, more from the very funny Marrying 0:15:00.767 --> 0:15:07.927 Keys on sex and desire and so much more. One 0:15:07.927 --> 0:15:10.407 of the things that is most common that a lot 0:15:10.407 --> 0:15:11.767 of women feel as they get all that, as you've 0:15:11.807 --> 0:15:15.087 mentioned already, is invisible and we are often written or 0:15:15.207 --> 0:15:19.927 perceived as being these sort of either just hypernurturers or 0:15:20.407 --> 0:15:23.927 just sort of bland and self sacrificing. But Anna is 0:15:24.287 --> 0:15:27.687 a properly layed person and she has when she does 0:15:27.967 --> 0:15:30.487 sort of restart her life again in this small town, 0:15:31.047 --> 0:15:34.247 she has options when it comes to love and sex. 0:15:34.287 --> 0:15:36.007 And I love the way you wrote that. Were you 0:15:36.967 --> 0:15:42.287 intentional about wanting to explore that for women in that 0:15:42.327 --> 0:15:43.727 of this age? 0:15:43.887 --> 0:15:47.847 I suppose I was, because I mean, I really dislike 0:15:47.927 --> 0:15:50.967 the mythology around women and sex. You know, is that 0:15:51.127 --> 0:15:53.927 you know is that women actually don't like sex at all, 0:15:54.367 --> 0:15:57.927 and that it's merely transactional, that like, women will only 0:15:58.007 --> 0:16:00.847 have sex in order to get their grass cut or 0:16:00.887 --> 0:16:03.127 to have shelves puts off. Yes, you know that it's 0:16:03.207 --> 0:16:07.487 only ever given. You know that it's never joyful or 0:16:07.567 --> 0:16:11.407 like or lost for or you know that women aren't 0:16:11.447 --> 0:16:17.167 allowed to be horny or or are loving. Yes, you 0:16:17.207 --> 0:16:19.767 know that it's always given kind of in a mean 0:16:19.847 --> 0:16:20.647 spirited way. 0:16:20.847 --> 0:16:23.527 It's a weapon or a yes, or something to be 0:16:23.567 --> 0:16:25.367 swapped for something else. Commitment. 0:16:25.567 --> 0:16:29.647 Yeah, exactly, exactly, And like you know, I know a 0:16:29.647 --> 0:16:33.167 lot of women. We all do, probably, and we all 0:16:33.167 --> 0:16:36.727 have different attitudes to sex at different points of our lives. 0:16:37.207 --> 0:16:41.207 And the worst myth of all is that like women 0:16:41.247 --> 0:16:45.847 shut up shop entirely at forty because that's not what 0:16:45.927 --> 0:16:48.567 I see and some people do. And again, I really 0:16:48.607 --> 0:16:51.167 mean this with love. If that's how it is for you, 0:16:51.207 --> 0:16:53.407 if you feel, you know, you just don't want it, 0:16:53.447 --> 0:16:55.767 you're dead from the neck down and you and your 0:16:55.807 --> 0:17:03.047 partner are happy, that's wonderful. But like I don't, not 0:17:03.127 --> 0:17:05.927 every woman I know feels like that. Far from it. 0:17:06.247 --> 0:17:08.887 And you know, people have kind of happy sex within 0:17:08.927 --> 0:17:13.487 a really relationship, or people have various flings, or people 0:17:13.847 --> 0:17:17.767 just they're not committed to anyone and they're having joyful, 0:17:17.967 --> 0:17:22.927 happy sex. And yeah, I just wanted to show that 0:17:22.967 --> 0:17:26.487 there are many ways to be a woman after forty 0:17:27.087 --> 0:17:29.647 and that an awful lot of us are still having sex. 0:17:29.967 --> 0:17:34.687 And you know, and again, it's not something that kind 0:17:34.687 --> 0:17:38.527 of travels in a straight line. The desire comes and 0:17:38.527 --> 0:17:42.727 goes all depending on your life circumstances, how what your 0:17:42.767 --> 0:17:47.487 body is doing, you know, how your workload is, how 0:17:47.607 --> 0:17:50.167 stressed you're feeling or not feeling, how resentful or not 0:17:50.407 --> 0:17:54.087 that you're feeling. You know, it's something that's in flux. 0:17:54.167 --> 0:17:57.887 It's not a fixed part of our identity, and it's 0:17:57.887 --> 0:18:00.727 something that can always be picked up again. You can 0:18:00.727 --> 0:18:03.367 go through long spells of thinking that's gone forever, yeah, 0:18:03.447 --> 0:18:04.887 and then it can come back. 0:18:05.207 --> 0:18:09.087 Which I think is reflected in this because obviously Anna's 0:18:09.527 --> 0:18:12.407 reflecting on different bits of her life, and there's the 0:18:12.487 --> 0:18:14.007 kind of section you might have when you're young, other 0:18:14.047 --> 0:18:16.687 way you feel about somebody at that time, and then 0:18:16.727 --> 0:18:18.127 there are periods of your life when you're like, I 0:18:18.127 --> 0:18:19.847 wonder if I'm ever going to feel like that again, 0:18:19.887 --> 0:18:22.047 And Anna's kind of feeling like that because she's been 0:18:22.087 --> 0:18:24.847 with this lovely, sensitive guy, and then the stirring for 0:18:24.887 --> 0:18:26.647 the bad boy kind of comes back, and I just 0:18:27.087 --> 0:18:29.127 what I just like about all that is it's just 0:18:29.967 --> 0:18:32.967 very human, which is what we all are, rather than 0:18:33.007 --> 0:18:35.047 it being like midlife ladies. 0:18:35.447 --> 0:18:37.927 Yeah, don't do any of that or any of them. Yeah, no, 0:18:38.127 --> 0:18:39.887 I mean, and like in many ways, like Anna is 0:18:39.927 --> 0:18:42.047 a lot more mature than she used to be, and 0:18:42.127 --> 0:18:47.047 she knows that this bad boy well was a bad boy, 0:18:47.367 --> 0:18:49.727 and that there's an awful lot of kind of potential 0:18:49.807 --> 0:18:51.047 heartbreak from going down their road. 0:18:51.047 --> 0:18:52.327 But she's still self protected. 0:18:52.447 --> 0:18:56.687 Yeah, would she still fancies something. And I love that 0:18:56.847 --> 0:19:01.887 for her because people still fancy each other like that 0:19:01.927 --> 0:19:04.527 doesn't seem to stop, or people still get crushes on 0:19:04.607 --> 0:19:07.527 people that doesn't stop, or people still fall in love. 0:19:08.087 --> 0:19:10.487 I just think you know that thing that like young 0:19:10.487 --> 0:19:13.767 people think that they invented sex. Yeah, they really do. 0:19:14.207 --> 0:19:17.327 Mean in no disrespect, I was young myself once, But 0:19:17.447 --> 0:19:21.247 that kind of giddy butterflies in your stomach feeling, there's 0:19:21.287 --> 0:19:25.487 always potential for that, which is beautiful. It's lovely, isn't it? 0:19:25.527 --> 0:19:25.727 Is it? 0:19:25.767 --> 0:19:27.807 I just ask you one more thing about the Welsh 0:19:27.847 --> 0:19:31.807 family before I get I ask you nicely to answer 0:19:31.847 --> 0:19:34.767 some of our listeners questions. Is it lovely to spend 0:19:34.847 --> 0:19:37.767 time with them again if you're writing, you know, as 0:19:37.767 --> 0:19:39.927 you said, this is your seventh book about them, and 0:19:39.967 --> 0:19:43.087 I know that your audience loves it when you write 0:19:43.087 --> 0:19:45.767 about them and they welcome them back like old friends. 0:19:45.927 --> 0:19:47.207 Is that what it feels like to you? 0:19:47.447 --> 0:19:49.807 Yeah? I mean I'd never intended to write a sequel. 0:19:49.967 --> 0:19:52.407 I'd given each of the five sisters their book, yes, 0:19:52.447 --> 0:19:55.047 and the last one was in twenty twelve, and then 0:19:55.207 --> 0:19:58.727 through the pandemic, I decided to return to Rachel. And 0:19:58.767 --> 0:20:01.207 it was so lovely because I couldn't see my own 0:20:01.207 --> 0:20:04.887 family during lockdown, and it did feel like I had well, 0:20:04.887 --> 0:20:06.967 I certainly had the same They have the same energy 0:20:07.007 --> 0:20:11.207 the Watches as my family, that kind of noisy, opinionated. 0:20:10.647 --> 0:20:12.327 Funny, funny, funny. 0:20:12.447 --> 0:20:14.687 It was lovely. And then I was going to write 0:20:14.687 --> 0:20:17.127 a very different book after again Rachel, and I thought, no, 0:20:17.687 --> 0:20:20.567 I'm just I prefer to stay in a happy place 0:20:20.767 --> 0:20:22.807 for a while, so I stayed with that. Then I 0:20:22.847 --> 0:20:24.767 was all set to do a third sequel, but my 0:20:25.007 --> 0:20:27.847 editor said yet, really, yeah, she did, that's enough Watches 0:20:27.887 --> 0:20:30.167 for a while, she said, So I'm writing something different, 0:20:30.207 --> 0:20:34.007 but they do it feels it just feels very familiar 0:20:34.007 --> 0:20:36.567 and fun and war and safe. That's what it feels. 0:20:36.607 --> 0:20:39.647 Yeah, right, and they almost live alongside you and they 0:20:39.687 --> 0:20:41.287 are I don't know if you're allowed to talk about this. Yes, 0:20:41.287 --> 0:20:44.447 I yeah, you are, Yes, yes, yes, because the TV series, Yes, 0:20:44.927 --> 0:20:46.167 the Walsh Systems. 0:20:45.927 --> 0:20:48.847 Yes, the first The first series has wrapped the BBC, 0:20:49.087 --> 0:20:52.767 the BBC. It's coming to Australia on Stan. Yeah, it's 0:20:52.807 --> 0:20:55.247 going to be out in November, I think in the 0:20:55.287 --> 0:20:58.527 Northern Hemisphere. I don't know when it will be here. 0:20:58.887 --> 0:20:59.767 Have you been involved? 0:21:00.047 --> 0:21:02.767 Well, I'm called an executive producer. I don't know what 0:21:02.807 --> 0:21:03.287 that means. 0:21:03.687 --> 0:21:05.887 I mean what says who I work with? Her book 0:21:05.887 --> 0:21:07.687 has been turned in and she's she says, I'm the 0:21:07.727 --> 0:21:09.967 executive producer. But yeah, I have no idea. 0:21:10.047 --> 0:21:11.927 Yeah, yeah, I have no idea and I think I 0:21:11.967 --> 0:21:14.447 have no rights either, But it doesn't matter. They're ask 0:21:14.607 --> 0:21:18.327 me small things like would Maggie wear disengagement ring and 0:21:18.327 --> 0:21:21.207 stuff like that, which I love being asked. And you know, 0:21:21.407 --> 0:21:25.327 I was allowed on set, like I was allowed off 0:21:25.367 --> 0:21:26.207 her opinions. 0:21:26.367 --> 0:21:28.207 I didn't like to see them come to Lifeline. 0:21:28.207 --> 0:21:32.287 It was so beautiful. I've lived with them for thirty 0:21:32.367 --> 0:21:35.967 years and my husband and I went to the set 0:21:36.007 --> 0:21:39.247 together and we don't have children, and we wanted children. 0:21:39.247 --> 0:21:40.887 And I don't know if this is part of it, 0:21:41.247 --> 0:21:45.207 but like we arrived and this woman was strutting along 0:21:45.247 --> 0:21:48.447 and like she had amazing blonde highlights in her hair, 0:21:48.487 --> 0:21:51.007 and she had like gold rimmed sunglasses, and she was 0:21:51.087 --> 0:21:53.767 just really glamorous and fabulous, and I thought, that's Claire. 0:21:54.367 --> 0:21:56.687 And then there's another one and she's her hair is 0:21:56.687 --> 0:21:59.087 sort of in a mullet, and there's something slightly off 0:21:59.207 --> 0:22:02.847 about her. Her jeans are slightly too short, she's got 0:22:02.887 --> 0:22:05.647 like her hands bunched into fists in her pockets, and 0:22:05.647 --> 0:22:08.567 she's kind of just just very dissatisfied with the world. 0:22:08.847 --> 0:22:11.767 And that was Helen, and it was it was so 0:22:11.967 --> 0:22:16.607 weird to see these people that I recognized by their 0:22:16.607 --> 0:22:18.247 clothes and their body language. 0:22:18.327 --> 0:22:21.087 It must have been well done, yeah, because it must 0:22:21.127 --> 0:22:23.887 have been very beautifully produced because they've done. 0:22:23.807 --> 0:22:28.047 Such a lovely job. They really have. You know, it 0:22:28.487 --> 0:22:31.727 was fairly low budget, but you would never know how 0:22:31.967 --> 0:22:35.367 it was made with so much love. It's beautiful. 0:22:35.967 --> 0:22:37.487 I think people are going to be very. 0:22:37.447 --> 0:22:40.807 It's very uplifting and it's very kind of Yeah, it's 0:22:40.887 --> 0:22:41.407 very loving. 0:22:41.967 --> 0:22:44.167 Actually, just because of what you just said about you 0:22:44.247 --> 0:22:46.167 and your husband going to set and you hadn't had kids. 0:22:46.207 --> 0:22:48.687 One of the other things I love about Anna in 0:22:48.727 --> 0:22:52.287 this book is the other thing that's that comes through 0:22:52.447 --> 0:22:54.247 is the choices that all the sisters have made, or 0:22:54.327 --> 0:22:56.847 choices that weren't even choices, things that have happened to them. 0:22:57.367 --> 0:23:01.487 Is the making peace with things, like holding on to 0:23:01.567 --> 0:23:03.367 some of the sadnesses that are always going to be there. 0:23:03.807 --> 0:23:06.247 It's just very well rounded, like it's just that's what 0:23:06.287 --> 0:23:10.647 life's like, like a loss, doesn't you know, Anna lost 0:23:10.927 --> 0:23:14.967 had a terrible loss in her husband. But it doesn't 0:23:15.007 --> 0:23:17.807 mean that everything's funny there. I think you are masterful 0:23:17.847 --> 0:23:19.087 of that complexity. 0:23:19.647 --> 0:23:22.567 Thank you so much, Holly. Yeah. I mean, nobody gets 0:23:22.607 --> 0:23:25.927 through life without something, you know, one of those huge, 0:23:26.087 --> 0:23:28.607 painful things that are only meant to happen to other people. 0:23:29.247 --> 0:23:32.567 It happens to us all, even if it's something as banal. 0:23:33.447 --> 0:23:36.127 I hope that word isn't offensive, but like, you know, 0:23:36.207 --> 0:23:40.127 to lose a parent, you know, it's so it happens 0:23:40.167 --> 0:23:45.447 to everyone, but it's so huge and so shocking, and 0:23:45.487 --> 0:23:49.567 the idea of getting over something I don't really think 0:23:49.607 --> 0:23:53.407 of it in those terms anymore. But I live alongside 0:23:53.527 --> 0:23:58.247 things and I don't, and the volume of loss gets 0:23:58.327 --> 0:24:01.567 dialed down, and then there are days when it can 0:24:01.647 --> 0:24:06.727 be suddenly very loud again, and that's okay, It's all okay. 0:24:07.887 --> 0:24:10.527 I don't think anything ever really goes way. It stays 0:24:10.567 --> 0:24:14.367 on file, and it can be resuscitated under certain circumstances. 0:24:14.567 --> 0:24:18.007 But we've survived it this far. We are more resilient 0:24:18.127 --> 0:24:21.567 than we know. Somebody said that to me recently. And 0:24:21.687 --> 0:24:23.807 often we don't know how resilient we are until we're 0:24:23.807 --> 0:24:28.607 in the circumstances that need the resilience. But we are. 0:24:29.767 --> 0:24:33.127 I know this sounds really trite, but we are stronger 0:24:33.167 --> 0:24:37.567 than we know we are. And yeah, just because we 0:24:37.727 --> 0:24:41.567 have survived the loss doesn't mean that it will never 0:24:41.847 --> 0:24:44.647 be painful against you know, the pain will come back, 0:24:45.087 --> 0:24:47.407 and then it will recede and we'll still be here. 0:24:47.887 --> 0:24:51.767 Marian. One more thing on aging, so physical aging, as 0:24:51.767 --> 0:24:55.167 in how we look, because physical aging means all kinds 0:24:55.167 --> 0:24:57.407 of things, of course, but how we look is something 0:24:57.407 --> 0:24:59.087 that also gets touched on quite a bit in here. 0:24:59.087 --> 0:25:00.887 I love that Anna is when she gets to this 0:25:00.927 --> 0:25:02.647 small town Nile and she is finding that way to 0:25:02.687 --> 0:25:05.007 get the boatox pretty quickly, which is great. But I 0:25:05.047 --> 0:25:08.687 love this paragraph that you wrote about Anna's view of 0:25:08.727 --> 0:25:10.687 what was matt hat and old because she'd been living 0:25:10.687 --> 0:25:12.087 in New York for a long time and then she 0:25:12.127 --> 0:25:15.647 goes back to Ireland and can I just read to 0:25:15.687 --> 0:25:16.327 you this little bit? 0:25:16.527 --> 0:25:17.447 Thank you please? 0:25:17.607 --> 0:25:20.487 Yeah? She said, this is a warning against being a 0:25:20.487 --> 0:25:23.407 person who tends towards optimism. I hadn't thought of myself 0:25:23.447 --> 0:25:26.287 as middle aged, never mind old. I think that's something 0:25:26.447 --> 0:25:29.367 that we all feel at that point. You could blame 0:25:29.407 --> 0:25:34.127 my mindset on Manhattan, where once you hit forty, aging 0:25:34.207 --> 0:25:38.527 no longer happened, or rather, an elaborate protocol was used 0:25:38.527 --> 0:25:43.207 to blur the evidence, including but not limited to restaalin, retinol, 0:25:43.407 --> 0:25:48.127 hit yoga, hair bowtox, hair botox, edible collagen, low carving, 0:25:48.207 --> 0:25:51.887 no carving, intermittent fasting, be twelve injections, and wearing trainers 0:25:51.887 --> 0:25:54.807 and dimante canes to black tie garlands. This seemed to 0:25:54.807 --> 0:25:58.207 work efficiently until maybe the age of ninety two, where 0:25:58.247 --> 0:26:01.327 your hit broke unexpectedly while you were opening the fridge, 0:26:01.327 --> 0:26:05.407 and then a conversation had to be had. Now, Anna 0:26:05.447 --> 0:26:08.527 says that because she'd done spin classes four times a week, 0:26:08.727 --> 0:26:10.767 and she had the stressful job that stopped her remaining, 0:26:10.887 --> 0:26:13.127 and she was doing botox and fillers and all the things. 0:26:13.367 --> 0:26:15.287 She thought she could pass for a woman much younger 0:26:15.287 --> 0:26:18.527 than her, but she realized that she was just Manhattan. 0:26:18.607 --> 0:26:21.887 All. Yeah, she was like masking the evidence. Yeah, because 0:26:21.887 --> 0:26:24.927 it is a thing, because I have botox and you know, 0:26:25.127 --> 0:26:28.167 and I kind of I'm at my face with various things, 0:26:28.247 --> 0:26:31.487 you know, But then my feet are gone to the dogs, 0:26:31.527 --> 0:26:34.247 Like I have a Bonian. They're painful, you know, and 0:26:34.287 --> 0:26:38.287 it's like that's not meant to happen, you know, Like 0:26:38.727 --> 0:26:42.447 and like I still run, but like I'm in bits. 0:26:42.967 --> 0:26:44.567 You know. There's something kind of going on with my 0:26:44.687 --> 0:26:49.727 left arm. And it's really strange when your body starts 0:26:49.767 --> 0:26:51.687 letting you down in those kind of ways. 0:26:52.087 --> 0:26:57.007 Do you think, though, that we have maybe decided that 0:26:57.367 --> 0:27:00.007 aging is a choice. You can face it off. Yeah. 0:27:00.727 --> 0:27:04.567 Resources exactly, enough resources and the right like peer group 0:27:04.607 --> 0:27:06.407 who can hook you up with all the rare things 0:27:06.807 --> 0:27:08.567 that we think it's a choice. And that's why it's 0:27:08.567 --> 0:27:11.527 almost more shock when you have asked, starts doing something 0:27:11.607 --> 0:27:13.567 funny and refuses to go away. 0:27:13.727 --> 0:27:18.407 Yeah, that it's a choice and sort of an obligation almost, 0:27:18.847 --> 0:27:23.687 and that if if anything goes wrong, it's your own fault. 0:27:24.207 --> 0:27:26.967 You could have prevented that if you had done X, 0:27:27.127 --> 0:27:31.647 Y or Z and then protein. Yeah, but actually no, 0:27:32.567 --> 0:27:36.607 I cannot hold back, you know, time, and then that's 0:27:36.647 --> 0:27:40.207 a bit kind of can't I. This is very disappointing, 0:27:40.447 --> 0:27:41.927 you know, with all the things I was doing and 0:27:41.967 --> 0:27:45.247 they still weren't enough. Yeah, it's funny because we are 0:27:45.327 --> 0:27:50.207 living so much longer, but we are not remaining in 0:27:50.647 --> 0:27:55.567 perky twenty seven year old style help till the age 0:27:55.567 --> 0:27:59.607 of one hundred and twelve, you know that. Yeah, we are. Actually, 0:27:59.647 --> 0:28:03.367 the d L joints aren't great, and these things happen, 0:28:03.487 --> 0:28:04.807 and it's a surprise. 0:28:05.207 --> 0:28:10.287 It is a surprise. Don't go anywhere, because when you 0:28:10.327 --> 0:28:14.327 come back, we're getting to your questions. Yes, yours, mid listeners, 0:28:14.367 --> 0:28:16.647 you sent them to me, and now Marian and I 0:28:16.727 --> 0:28:19.567 are going to talk them over, and her answers are 0:28:19.687 --> 0:28:23.087 very marrying keys in the best possible way back in 0:28:23.167 --> 0:28:31.487 a tick. My other Maryan Keys related obsession is your 0:28:31.487 --> 0:28:35.527 podcast with Tara Flynn, My beloved Tara, My goodness, you 0:28:35.527 --> 0:28:38.807 two on that show. I shouldn't be promoting other podcasts 0:28:38.807 --> 0:28:41.647 on my podcast just Rude, But now you're asking is 0:28:41.687 --> 0:28:43.687 a joy, and I bet there are so many MID 0:28:43.727 --> 0:28:47.287 listeners who listen to it. So you answer listener questions, Yeah, 0:28:47.327 --> 0:28:50.127 you and Tara all kinds of things, Yeah. 0:28:50.007 --> 0:28:52.807 Like funny, serious, dark, not dark. 0:28:53.087 --> 0:28:56.607 It's one of my favorite comfort listens. I just love 0:28:56.727 --> 0:28:58.927 listening to you. So when I knew you were going 0:28:58.967 --> 0:29:01.247 to come on MID, I said, do you think that 0:29:01.287 --> 0:29:03.647 we could ask some of our listeners. I would be 0:29:03.807 --> 0:29:07.207 honored because I think they would love us to talk 0:29:07.247 --> 0:29:10.087 through some of their Sure, we might have to put 0:29:10.127 --> 0:29:11.887 a bit of color around some of these because I 0:29:11.927 --> 0:29:13.887 asked them on social media and the box where they 0:29:13.887 --> 0:29:16.967 put their problems quite small. Okay, we've got really good, 0:29:17.367 --> 0:29:20.527 succinct problems. We may have to color in some context. 0:29:20.767 --> 0:29:23.367 I'm going to start with actually my favorite of all 0:29:23.447 --> 0:29:25.967 the problems. Okay, I got this is a very good 0:29:26.007 --> 0:29:28.967 problem to have from one of our middle listeners who says, 0:29:29.687 --> 0:29:32.807 I want to spend three months in Italy next year 0:29:32.887 --> 0:29:35.807 with my bestie but no husbands. 0:29:36.207 --> 0:29:40.727 How do we tell the husbands? Okay, this is fantastic, 0:29:40.847 --> 0:29:44.807 good problem. This is it's a great problem. And it's 0:29:44.847 --> 0:29:47.927 also it's very zeitgeist. 0:29:48.767 --> 0:29:52.287 Yeah, you know, isn't it Like it's hard to know 0:29:52.807 --> 0:29:53.927 what age they are. 0:29:54.487 --> 0:29:57.367 So I think I think we can assume that most 0:29:57.407 --> 0:30:01.207 of these listeners are over fourteen, not necessarily, but let's 0:30:01.247 --> 0:30:03.567 say broadly like forty. 0:30:04.007 --> 0:30:10.527 Yeah, okay, all right, so grown up as I them. Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay. 0:30:10.967 --> 0:30:12.887 I mean I think it's a fabulous thing to do, 0:30:12.927 --> 0:30:16.047 and I think the way to do it is to 0:30:16.167 --> 0:30:20.327 present it as a huge positive. You know, I've had 0:30:20.327 --> 0:30:24.247 this great idea, you know, and maybe there's something the 0:30:24.327 --> 0:30:28.847 husband has always wanted to do. There probably is. There's 0:30:28.887 --> 0:30:33.247 always there are always dreams that we've never had a 0:30:33.327 --> 0:30:38.327 chance to fulfill. And to present it as you can 0:30:38.407 --> 0:30:42.007 go and I don't know, walk the Camino, or or 0:30:42.647 --> 0:30:46.687 do a tour of all the great football grounds of Europe. 0:30:47.007 --> 0:30:51.087 Or oh you could stay high home, peace and quiet. 0:30:50.767 --> 0:30:51.647 For three months. 0:30:51.767 --> 0:30:56.367 Yes, yeah, I wonder if I would maybe, but this 0:30:56.487 --> 0:30:58.887 might spoil the whole thing. But I might say we 0:30:58.927 --> 0:31:03.607 could meet up in the middle or something for a while. 0:31:04.007 --> 0:31:06.927 Well, I would present that in vague terms. Maybe we 0:31:07.007 --> 0:31:10.447 could even and meet up, yeah, you know, somewhere if 0:31:10.447 --> 0:31:12.167 her past across. I mean, probably kind of quite new 0:31:12.167 --> 0:31:15.647 at the end, but you know, never finish the sentence, 0:31:15.807 --> 0:31:17.567 you know, just kind of throw it into the mix, 0:31:17.607 --> 0:31:20.607 but never actually wild it down. And the thing is, 0:31:21.927 --> 0:31:25.047 I think people are more emotionally literate than they used 0:31:25.087 --> 0:31:26.927 to be, you know, and that it would be easy 0:31:27.007 --> 0:31:29.327 to say to the person because Okay, if I was 0:31:29.367 --> 0:31:32.007 the person being left at home or being told tour 0:31:32.087 --> 0:31:35.407 the football grounds, I might feel kind of rejected. Or 0:31:35.527 --> 0:31:38.367 is this the first part of a kind of a 0:31:38.607 --> 0:31:42.167 you know, a divorcing or whatever, you know, for somebody 0:31:42.367 --> 0:31:45.687 to be honest with you and say, I'm mad about you. 0:31:45.687 --> 0:31:47.807 You know, you're my best friend, Like I want us 0:31:47.847 --> 0:31:52.127 to grow older together, but I want to do this 0:31:52.247 --> 0:31:55.647 with my friend and only with her. You know, the 0:31:55.767 --> 0:31:58.607 dynamic would be completely different if you came with us. 0:31:58.927 --> 0:32:02.287 You know, you are a good man. You're an intelligent person. 0:32:02.367 --> 0:32:04.767 Please try and understand that. Even if he isn't a 0:32:04.767 --> 0:32:07.407 good intelligent man, say it anyway, you know, kind of 0:32:07.927 --> 0:32:11.767 lead with the positive, you know, yes, say and like 0:32:11.807 --> 0:32:14.247 you could go and hang out with your brother or 0:32:14.287 --> 0:32:18.567 the guys, or you know, you could just you know, yeah, 0:32:18.847 --> 0:32:21.687 and then at three months, after three months, I'll come 0:32:21.687 --> 0:32:25.007 back and I can show you. I don't know, I 0:32:25.007 --> 0:32:28.647 can do a slide show whatever. Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, 0:32:28.887 --> 0:32:32.167 Like I really think the thing is right. We get 0:32:32.327 --> 0:32:36.407 one life, you know, and if you don't ask, you 0:32:36.447 --> 0:32:38.447 don't get And. 0:32:38.247 --> 0:32:41.167 This might be your moment to say this, right, yes. 0:32:41.327 --> 0:32:45.807 Yeah, And like if you kind of anticipate how the 0:32:45.847 --> 0:32:48.047 other person will be feeling when you when you ask, 0:32:48.927 --> 0:32:52.327 stroke tell them, you know, try and meet their fears 0:32:52.727 --> 0:32:58.607 and their insecurities head on and and ask them to 0:32:58.607 --> 0:33:01.647 trust you. You know that you've been together for eight years, 0:33:01.647 --> 0:33:06.967 fifteen years already, and that you're going anyway. Yeah, because 0:33:06.967 --> 0:33:12.407 they because once you've kind have forged that plan and 0:33:12.527 --> 0:33:18.527 been brave enough to ask. If you're told no, that's 0:33:18.527 --> 0:33:20.967 going to damageationship anyway. 0:33:20.767 --> 0:33:23.327 That we could maybe come back from that, but it 0:33:23.367 --> 0:33:25.087 will always the resentment there. 0:33:25.527 --> 0:33:25.767 Yeah. 0:33:25.767 --> 0:33:27.407 I think you're right. So I don't think it's an 0:33:27.447 --> 0:33:28.047 ass yea. 0:33:28.207 --> 0:33:30.567 Three months out of eighty years or however long we're 0:33:30.607 --> 0:33:31.287 living these days. 0:33:31.407 --> 0:33:34.887 Yes, yeah, not bad. Okay, this one is a little 0:33:34.927 --> 0:33:39.207 more serious. My husband is sixteen years older. It's been 0:33:39.287 --> 0:33:43.607 perfect for decades, decades okay her many, but now he's 0:33:43.647 --> 0:33:46.367 an old man. In mind, body, and spirit. 0:33:46.527 --> 0:33:52.367 Oh dear, Oh, this is so sad. Sad, that is so. 0:33:52.887 --> 0:33:56.687 But this is this is a thing that age differences, 0:33:56.967 --> 0:33:59.607 which you know, very common and happen all the time, 0:33:59.647 --> 0:34:02.567 and no big deal. Sometimes they shift as you age, 0:34:03.007 --> 0:34:06.327 right in whichever direction. I mean, that's obvious. I suppose 0:34:06.327 --> 0:34:08.367 that they shifted you age. But it isn't a problem. 0:34:08.407 --> 0:34:10.007 It isn't a problem. It is a problem. And suddenly 0:34:10.087 --> 0:34:10.487 it's odd. 0:34:10.767 --> 0:34:14.207 Yeah, yeah, suddenly, and forgive my language, but kind of 0:34:14.327 --> 0:34:18.527 suddenly the older partner falls over a cliff in terms 0:34:18.767 --> 0:34:23.007 of the aging process. You know, for a long time, 0:34:23.047 --> 0:34:27.047 they're they're they're great for their age, and then we 0:34:27.167 --> 0:34:33.407 can't outrun the process, not forever, and like people age differently, 0:34:34.087 --> 0:34:39.767 And this is incredibly sad. And for the listener who 0:34:39.807 --> 0:34:42.247 has written in, first of all, you have my my 0:34:42.367 --> 0:34:48.127 acute sympathy because you've lost the man you love and 0:34:48.767 --> 0:34:52.247 that now you're having to caretake in a way that 0:34:52.247 --> 0:34:56.167 perhaps you had never anticipated. Because you know, when we 0:34:56.287 --> 0:34:59.727 know somebody at their their most vital and vibrant and 0:34:59.767 --> 0:35:03.167 strong and healthy, it's kind of impossible to imagine them 0:35:03.247 --> 0:35:10.727 being properly old until it happens and I mean, in 0:35:10.767 --> 0:35:15.087 practical terms, I would ask you to get as much 0:35:15.167 --> 0:35:18.127 support as possible. If you have children, if you have 0:35:18.207 --> 0:35:22.247 extended family, you know, if their home helps, like we 0:35:22.327 --> 0:35:24.927 have them in Ireland. You know, get as many people 0:35:24.967 --> 0:35:29.047 as who can, who can help, you know, pick up 0:35:29.087 --> 0:35:36.287 the practical slack. But then also spend time with your 0:35:36.367 --> 0:35:42.567 husband and you know, remember them sorry. You know what, 0:35:45.087 --> 0:35:47.407 it's kind of very hard to be kind to people 0:35:47.407 --> 0:35:49.647 when they let us down, when they let us down 0:35:49.887 --> 0:35:52.127 by getting sick or aging. I know it's a really 0:35:52.207 --> 0:35:57.087 kind of selfish response, but it's human, But I be kind. 0:35:58.447 --> 0:36:02.807 Do you think do you think that this part, as 0:36:02.847 --> 0:36:05.767 she says when she says help, this part is going 0:36:05.807 --> 0:36:08.207 to be hard, right, this part is going to be hard. 0:36:08.927 --> 0:36:12.207 But the decades that you've had that are perfect, maybe 0:36:12.287 --> 0:36:14.567 this is payback. 0:36:14.607 --> 0:36:16.287 I mean, that's an awful kind of transaction the way 0:36:16.287 --> 0:36:18.727 of looking at it. But it's I suppose it's a 0:36:18.807 --> 0:36:22.527 fact and you were clearly very happy. You say it 0:36:23.247 --> 0:36:25.687 at the start of your letter. You know, you were 0:36:25.807 --> 0:36:31.007 very happy, And that's still possible, not all the time, 0:36:31.407 --> 0:36:35.527 like things have definitely changed, but it's still it's still there. 0:36:36.527 --> 0:36:42.927 But to also find a way to grieve separately. Okay, 0:36:42.927 --> 0:36:48.047 that sounds very selfish. Okay, enjoy what you can of 0:36:48.247 --> 0:36:52.687 what remains of the man you married, and at the 0:36:52.727 --> 0:36:57.207 same time find a way to grieve. See a counselor, 0:36:57.767 --> 0:37:01.247 I don't know, some sort of spiritual practice, maybe like meditation, 0:37:01.727 --> 0:37:05.327 anything that helps kind of you to live with the 0:37:05.327 --> 0:37:08.687 pain of this. Do it and get as much practical 0:37:08.687 --> 0:37:10.567 help as you can. And I wish you so. 0:37:10.847 --> 0:37:14.807 Wells Absolutely, it's it's a lot to be able to 0:37:15.087 --> 0:37:19.207 say that out loud, even I think friendships. So many 0:37:19.367 --> 0:37:21.247 questions about friendships. 0:37:20.727 --> 0:37:26.007 Mary, Isn't it bizarre? It's the most the most taboo relationship. 0:37:26.487 --> 0:37:29.287 It's so rarely openly discussed female friendships. 0:37:29.327 --> 0:37:31.847 It's true. So I've got a couple about friendships, but 0:37:31.887 --> 0:37:34.607 this is a good one because it's about how to 0:37:34.647 --> 0:37:37.007 put a boundary in place, basically. And I think you 0:37:37.607 --> 0:37:40.447 I've heard you talk about this before. This woman says, 0:37:40.487 --> 0:37:42.487 I've got a high school friend I see twice a year, 0:37:42.527 --> 0:37:45.687 once on my birthday and once on hers. I've come 0:37:45.727 --> 0:37:48.207 to hate these birthday dinners. It's forced, and we have 0:37:48.287 --> 0:37:51.047 nothing in common. And if I talk about enjoying work 0:37:51.127 --> 0:37:54.607 or my kids doing well, she gets annoyed, suggests, I 0:37:54.607 --> 0:37:56.927 guess that she doesn't feel that way. How do I 0:37:57.127 --> 0:38:00.727 stop these birthday dinners? I get so anxious when they 0:38:00.767 --> 0:38:03.287 come around, But I don't want to hurt her. 0:38:03.567 --> 0:38:09.247 Oh my god, who doesn't who doesn't sympathize and identify 0:38:09.327 --> 0:38:12.407 FI with this? Oh? And I feel so bad for 0:38:12.527 --> 0:38:16.327 the letter writer because, yeah, like the remnants of the 0:38:16.847 --> 0:38:19.487 kind of the friendship that was once there that makes 0:38:19.487 --> 0:38:23.487 you not want to hurt them. I mean, there are 0:38:23.527 --> 0:38:25.767 two there are three things you can do. One is 0:38:25.807 --> 0:38:28.367 you carry on as you are. Please don't like, please 0:38:28.447 --> 0:38:30.607 don't like, please please please don't. 0:38:30.727 --> 0:38:33.927 Your birthday is kind of important to yeah, feeling anxious 0:38:33.927 --> 0:38:35.687 about this event you don't want to. 0:38:35.807 --> 0:38:38.447 And also to be seeing a person who kind of 0:38:38.647 --> 0:38:43.727 doesn't celebrate your successes and joys, like, don't do that 0:38:43.767 --> 0:38:46.727 to yourself, like, please don't. Life is far shorter than 0:38:46.727 --> 0:38:50.367 we realize. I mean, if you add up all those birthdays, 0:38:50.367 --> 0:38:53.687 how many months of your life have you spent in 0:38:53.727 --> 0:38:56.967 the company of a person who doesn't celebrate your happiness? Okay, 0:38:57.167 --> 0:38:59.247 so you could continue doing it, but I'm begging you 0:38:59.327 --> 0:39:04.487 not to. You could say, I mean, people have done 0:39:04.487 --> 0:39:07.407 this you know, you could say it's really not working 0:39:07.447 --> 0:39:11.007 for me anymore. You know, I wish you well, I 0:39:11.087 --> 0:39:15.767 really sincerely do, but we won't be friends going forward. 0:39:16.007 --> 0:39:17.647 Isn't it very funny? Like you could say that to 0:39:17.687 --> 0:39:19.767 a boyfriend or a husband or something. You could say, 0:39:20.007 --> 0:39:22.727 you know, I have loved you and I don't love 0:39:22.767 --> 0:39:26.047 you anymore, and our lives will be separate from now on. 0:39:27.287 --> 0:39:30.007 And people might be upset, but they wouldn't think it 0:39:30.047 --> 0:39:30.447 was odd. 0:39:30.567 --> 0:39:33.727 No, and they're not say now I don't think so. Well, no, 0:39:33.767 --> 0:39:34.367 they might. 0:39:34.287 --> 0:39:38.527 They might, but but you can stand your ground. Or 0:39:39.247 --> 0:39:44.407 you could do the gentle slip, which is so around 0:39:44.447 --> 0:39:47.967 the time of your birthday. You could be very busy. 0:39:48.007 --> 0:39:50.727 You could have gone away, somebody took you away for 0:39:50.767 --> 0:39:54.887 a weekend in such a place. And then I know 0:39:55.007 --> 0:39:58.527 this is awful, but could you have some sort of 0:39:58.727 --> 0:40:03.487 ear infection? You know, maybe not actually diagnosed, but like 0:40:03.687 --> 0:40:05.807 you know, you're not hearing so well and there's a 0:40:05.887 --> 0:40:08.087 kind of blocked up feeling like you've been swimming and 0:40:08.127 --> 0:40:11.807 you can't hear very well. A point and then let 0:40:11.847 --> 0:40:14.447 a couple of texts go on, red, I've got this 0:40:14.727 --> 0:40:16.487 brutal I know, you know. 0:40:16.527 --> 0:40:18.447 It's just tricky though, right because one of the other 0:40:18.487 --> 0:40:20.447 ones I've got is that this person said that they 0:40:20.527 --> 0:40:24.607 feel their good friend has ghosted them, is what we're 0:40:24.647 --> 0:40:27.887 sort of almost suggesting here, and that they've said, I've 0:40:27.887 --> 0:40:29.607 got no idea what I've done, and I can't stop 0:40:29.647 --> 0:40:32.647 thinking about it now that that's like the other side 0:40:32.647 --> 0:40:35.847 of this. But when you were saying before you could 0:40:35.927 --> 0:40:38.247 say to them, you know, I don't love you anymore, 0:40:38.487 --> 0:40:41.807 or you know, words that effect, the thought of doing that, 0:40:41.847 --> 0:40:43.487 particularly face to face. 0:40:43.407 --> 0:40:44.247 Is horrific. 0:40:44.687 --> 0:40:48.487 It almost feels impossible climbing every yeah, jumping out of 0:40:48.487 --> 0:40:49.487 a plane or something. 0:40:49.527 --> 0:40:53.527 Yeah, yeah, you think you got to email it? What 0:40:53.527 --> 0:40:56.687 do you think? I mean, it's God, it's difficult. You know, 0:40:56.927 --> 0:41:02.007 we can't be saints. Oh god, I mean it's hard 0:41:02.047 --> 0:41:05.767 because who wants to cause pain to another person? But okay, 0:41:06.087 --> 0:41:09.407 all right, if you felt and this doesn't come across, 0:41:09.847 --> 0:41:12.007 if the woman who wrote in and felt that, like 0:41:12.087 --> 0:41:14.727 this other woman is trilled to see her and it's 0:41:14.727 --> 0:41:17.687 delighted to see her, and like it really like lifts 0:41:17.687 --> 0:41:19.847 her up, and she loves here and all the news 0:41:19.927 --> 0:41:22.287 and she's so happy for all the good things in 0:41:22.327 --> 0:41:25.087 the letter writer's life, you'd feel, ah, for God's sake, 0:41:25.127 --> 0:41:26.847 how much does it kill me to spend two and 0:41:26.887 --> 0:41:30.367 a half hours in her company twice a year? That's 0:41:30.887 --> 0:41:34.727 but if you're already getting if you're feeling undermined and 0:41:34.767 --> 0:41:39.527 that you have nothing in common, a little brutality. See, 0:41:39.527 --> 0:41:42.567 I would find this very very difficult, very very who 0:41:42.607 --> 0:41:47.167 wouldn't I? And only a psychopath was literally only a psychopath. 0:41:47.327 --> 0:41:49.407 And this is why I think that maybe it is 0:41:49.447 --> 0:41:51.567 a time when it is permitted to put it in writing, 0:41:52.087 --> 0:41:56.487 all right, because I think that maybe because I know 0:41:56.567 --> 0:41:58.247 what you mean about if it's only wants a year 0:41:58.287 --> 0:42:00.167 two hours. But she says she feels anxious, and she 0:42:00.327 --> 0:42:02.527 uses the word I've come to hate these dinners, So 0:42:02.727 --> 0:42:05.567 that suggests she comes home feeling terrible. Yeah, And you know, 0:42:05.767 --> 0:42:08.087 sometimes I think it's cruel when we might go home 0:42:08.127 --> 0:42:09.887 and we might she might then bit about this woman 0:42:10.687 --> 0:42:14.367 friends to our husband or two around for ages and 0:42:14.527 --> 0:42:17.287 in a way that's not gravy either, No, it's not. 0:42:17.647 --> 0:42:19.727 So maybe this is a time when you're allowed to 0:42:19.807 --> 0:42:20.927 run email. 0:42:20.727 --> 0:42:24.967 Yes, and to be and to write it with huge 0:42:25.047 --> 0:42:31.367 love and pick the words yeah, and to not assign 0:42:31.447 --> 0:42:35.807 any blame, but to say it's simply our lives have 0:42:35.887 --> 0:42:41.447 gone in such different directions and I like blah blah blah, 0:42:41.727 --> 0:42:45.007 and you like such and such, and I get pleasure 0:42:45.087 --> 0:42:49.607 from this thing, and you're the things you love leave 0:42:49.687 --> 0:42:52.327 me cold. And not even language like that, but just 0:42:52.327 --> 0:42:58.447 just to kind of lovingly give reasons for yes, why 0:42:58.567 --> 0:43:02.687 why there, why it is in no longer nourishing, it 0:43:02.727 --> 0:43:06.007 no longer serves you in the in the therapy language. Yeah, 0:43:06.047 --> 0:43:08.727 and just you know, to end with that, you know, 0:43:09.407 --> 0:43:14.207 to wish them happiness and joy and peace and like 0:43:14.287 --> 0:43:16.327 every good thing that they could have in their life 0:43:17.047 --> 0:43:20.047 and detached with love. 0:43:20.327 --> 0:43:23.087 I think. I think that's good because I also think 0:43:23.127 --> 0:43:26.287 that to our other writer, the other lady who wrote 0:43:26.287 --> 0:43:28.847 in and said I'd love some advice about being ghosted, 0:43:28.967 --> 0:43:30.447 I have no idea what I've done, and I can't 0:43:30.447 --> 0:43:33.647 stop thinking about it. I think that if you do, 0:43:34.047 --> 0:43:38.087 if you write an email or whatever, is that you're 0:43:38.087 --> 0:43:40.727 not then going to enter into correspondence. That's right, You've 0:43:40.727 --> 0:43:42.727 provided your side of the story. 0:43:43.047 --> 0:43:45.527 Yeah. I mean as for the woman who has been ghosted, 0:43:45.567 --> 0:43:47.407 I mean, that is a horrible thing to happen, and 0:43:47.447 --> 0:43:51.487 I think they're entitled to email and say, look, either 0:43:51.527 --> 0:43:56.407 I did something or something wasn't working for you. All 0:43:56.807 --> 0:43:59.327 all I need is an explanation. You know, I'm not 0:43:59.367 --> 0:44:03.087 looking to be friends again. You know I'm adult enough 0:44:03.527 --> 0:44:04.927 to know that that's not what you want. But I 0:44:04.927 --> 0:44:08.807 would just really like to know. I mean, that's that's allowed. 0:44:08.887 --> 0:44:12.447 Also, I think that's reasonable to it. Well, it's not 0:44:12.487 --> 0:44:15.047 that you deserve an explanation, but it's that that will 0:44:15.087 --> 0:44:16.447 at least give you something. 0:44:16.367 --> 0:44:19.647 Yeah, concrete, to kind of comfort yourself with. 0:44:19.887 --> 0:44:22.687 Yes, otherwise you can spin off. Yeah, I've got one 0:44:22.807 --> 0:44:26.647 about a sibling. How to stop my brother. This is 0:44:26.687 --> 0:44:30.287 full of the story behind this message must be fantastic. 0:44:30.687 --> 0:44:33.207 How to stop my brother being so soft and generous 0:44:33.207 --> 0:44:35.607 with his adult kids. They are taking advantage of him. 0:44:36.207 --> 0:44:41.647 Oh my god, in what we well obviously financially. 0:44:46.567 --> 0:44:49.527 But I wonder do you think, because you write so 0:44:49.607 --> 0:44:54.567 brilliantly about siblings, do you think it's any of her business? 0:44:54.687 --> 0:44:58.207 That's the very phrase I was going to use, was 0:44:58.447 --> 0:45:02.887 in what way is this any of her business? It isn't. 0:45:03.327 --> 0:45:08.767 It absolutely isn't. You know? If he is compassmentous, it's 0:45:08.807 --> 0:45:11.527 none of her business. He can give them you know, 0:45:11.647 --> 0:45:14.607 the shirt off his back if he so chooses, if 0:45:14.647 --> 0:45:17.687 he's sane, he can do what he likes. 0:45:18.807 --> 0:45:20.567 And do you think it's hard to stay out of 0:45:20.567 --> 0:45:21.487 his siblings business. 0:45:21.607 --> 0:45:24.567 It's very, very hard. I mean people are very opinionated, 0:45:25.047 --> 0:45:28.727 and people, Yeah, I suppose I speak for myself, like, yes, 0:45:28.807 --> 0:45:33.047 I have opinions on everything. But having opinions and actually 0:45:33.647 --> 0:45:37.647 deciding to interfere they're two different things. Have opinions all 0:45:37.687 --> 0:45:42.727 you like, but no, when you're dealing with adults, unless 0:45:42.727 --> 0:45:48.567 what they're doing is criminal or the signs of mental illness, 0:45:50.487 --> 0:45:53.247 they can live their lives whatever weight they want, and 0:45:53.287 --> 0:45:57.127 they can parent whatever weight they want. Just because it's 0:45:57.167 --> 0:45:59.567 not the way we would choose to do it, it doesn't 0:45:59.607 --> 0:46:02.607 give us any rights. And yeah, because I mean siblings 0:46:02.687 --> 0:46:05.967 especially are very it's kind of weird. You think you 0:46:06.007 --> 0:46:07.927 come from the same set of parents and you kind 0:46:07.927 --> 0:46:10.807 of have learned the same way to parent, but you 0:46:10.847 --> 0:46:14.967 don't know. You know, there's five people in my family. 0:46:15.247 --> 0:46:18.447 You know we had five different sets of parents. Yes, 0:46:19.127 --> 0:46:21.967 it's bizarre, but it's it's true. You know your parents 0:46:21.967 --> 0:46:26.127 are at different stages with different children. And and just 0:46:26.167 --> 0:46:30.647 because the woman who's written in has a different approach 0:46:32.207 --> 0:46:33.607 what a brother is doing. 0:46:33.807 --> 0:46:37.687 It's not wrong, it's not wrong. And one last family one. 0:46:38.327 --> 0:46:40.567 There were a few in here about daughters in law, 0:46:40.767 --> 0:46:42.087 which I think is really sad. 0:46:42.087 --> 0:46:45.567 It is obviously difficult, but it is it, but it is, 0:46:45.967 --> 0:46:50.447 you know, it's it always has been clearly. 0:46:51.167 --> 0:46:54.047 I think my new daughter in law doesn't like me. 0:46:54.487 --> 0:46:55.287 Oh god. 0:46:55.447 --> 0:46:59.567 And I don't think I have done anything wrong. Oh lord, 0:47:00.367 --> 0:47:05.927 I really feel for this person. Yes it's a short message, 0:47:05.967 --> 0:47:08.727 but I don't think I have done anything wrong. 0:47:09.527 --> 0:47:11.527 It's oh, it feels like. 0:47:11.447 --> 0:47:12.647 A chasing child. 0:47:13.127 --> 0:47:13.687 It does. 0:47:14.767 --> 0:47:17.367 Have you seen in your family and your travels or 0:47:17.367 --> 0:47:21.127 in your books even like a way that this relationship 0:47:22.047 --> 0:47:26.287 like how what distance is the right amount of distance here? 0:47:26.567 --> 0:47:30.647 I don't know. I mean I'm lucky, Like my mother 0:47:30.687 --> 0:47:34.287 in law is a lovely, lovely woman, and like yeah, 0:47:34.367 --> 0:47:37.807 and like like as soon as I met her, I 0:47:37.847 --> 0:47:41.927 saw how much she loved her son, and she could 0:47:41.967 --> 0:47:46.167 have taken again me like because I don't have children, 0:47:46.207 --> 0:47:49.247 but I understand that thing of like I love this 0:47:49.327 --> 0:47:54.607 person and I don't want you to take them from me, 0:47:55.367 --> 0:47:58.327 or I don't want you to be inferior to what 0:47:58.447 --> 0:48:01.247 he deserves. I mean, there's so much weird stuff going on. 0:48:02.007 --> 0:48:07.487 And then as a daughter in law, there's other fears 0:48:07.527 --> 0:48:11.167 of like she disapproves of me, or she thinks I'm 0:48:11.207 --> 0:48:14.007 not good enough for him, or she interferes too much, 0:48:14.207 --> 0:48:21.447 or and it's it's awful because it's a forced relationship, 0:48:22.007 --> 0:48:24.247 you know, like you wouldn't kind of decide to be 0:48:24.327 --> 0:48:30.007 friends spontaneously, which you're obliged to be two people united 0:48:30.047 --> 0:48:34.967 by the love of one person. And and some people 0:48:35.167 --> 0:48:37.807 they just hit it off. They're just they're on the 0:48:37.847 --> 0:48:42.527 same side. I just think for most people it's fear, 0:48:42.647 --> 0:48:44.367 fear of being usurped or yes. 0:48:44.567 --> 0:48:49.447 It sometimes feels like for the mothers sometimes it feels 0:48:49.487 --> 0:48:53.087 like this woman might have the power to take my 0:48:53.207 --> 0:48:55.487 son away way, yeah, you. 0:48:55.447 --> 0:48:57.127 Know, and that. 0:48:58.527 --> 0:49:00.727 It feels like a power thing that can be very 0:49:00.807 --> 0:49:03.047 unhealthy if that's the way of viewing it, like one 0:49:03.047 --> 0:49:04.007 of us has to be more. 0:49:03.927 --> 0:49:06.607 Important or yes, I has to have that that yeah, 0:49:07.047 --> 0:49:07.847 the upper hand. 0:49:08.447 --> 0:49:12.567 Yes. But then from the daughter in law's perspective, if 0:49:12.607 --> 0:49:15.007 this woman is saying I don't think she likes me, 0:49:15.167 --> 0:49:17.127 well does she have to like you? As in that 0:49:17.207 --> 0:49:19.207 you would go and have you know, a coffee together 0:49:19.327 --> 0:49:22.367 or whatever, or do you just have to be able 0:49:22.447 --> 0:49:25.087 to coexist when necessary? 0:49:26.087 --> 0:49:28.927 God, I don't know. I mean personally speaking, I prefer 0:49:29.007 --> 0:49:34.407 to be liked, like I want warm hugs and and 0:49:34.727 --> 0:49:38.087 kind of so lovely to see you and that's come 0:49:38.127 --> 0:49:42.167 around for dinner. Yeah, well no, actually no, I mean yeah, 0:49:42.207 --> 0:49:44.127 or a line there for sure. No, I don't mean that. 0:49:44.167 --> 0:49:47.647 But like I think, I think a separate relationship outside 0:49:47.727 --> 0:49:51.687 of the sun isn't necessary. Yea, but it is kind 0:49:51.687 --> 0:49:55.327 of horrible to feel, even on those family occasions, that 0:49:55.567 --> 0:49:58.767 somebody is cold or withholding and you don't know why 0:49:58.807 --> 0:50:02.567 when all you have been is friendly and welcoming. I 0:50:02.567 --> 0:50:08.727 don't know. I would recommend that the woman has written 0:50:08.727 --> 0:50:14.047 in just continues love bombs the daughter in law, right, yeah, 0:50:14.087 --> 0:50:16.767 like why not? Maybe the daughter in law is feeling insecure, 0:50:17.167 --> 0:50:22.487 maybe maybe she'll change. Maybe she's afraid of you. Maybe 0:50:22.487 --> 0:50:24.687 she's afraid of you and she doesn't know what you know. 0:50:24.927 --> 0:50:27.647 And a lot of the time we behave in ways 0:50:27.647 --> 0:50:31.087 and we don't know what's driving us. But you don't know, 0:50:31.247 --> 0:50:33.807 and I think there is no circumstance at the moment 0:50:33.847 --> 0:50:35.687 you can kind of front up and say have I 0:50:35.727 --> 0:50:38.567 done something to you like you can't, you know, so 0:50:39.207 --> 0:50:41.367 kind of try and accept that it may not be comfortable, 0:50:42.327 --> 0:50:47.887 but be the adult here and be kind, keep your 0:50:47.927 --> 0:50:51.927 distance a little bit, let that. Let it be like 0:50:51.967 --> 0:50:55.527 a little wounded bird. Give her, give her kind of space, 0:50:56.007 --> 0:50:58.647 the daughter in law to kind of find her feet 0:50:58.807 --> 0:51:03.327 within the dynamic. And and maybe when she realizes that 0:51:03.407 --> 0:51:06.367 you're not going to, you know, gather the son up 0:51:06.407 --> 0:51:09.527 under your arm and run off with them, maybe she 0:51:09.847 --> 0:51:13.327 relax a bit. Yeah. Yeah, so kind of start by 0:51:13.327 --> 0:51:18.687 being the bigger person and and give it I don't know, 0:51:19.247 --> 0:51:22.007 I don't know how much time, you know, six months, 0:51:22.007 --> 0:51:24.167 a year, and then if she hasn't warmed up by then, 0:51:24.567 --> 0:51:30.447 then don't bother. Yeah yeah, nothing, nothing, nothing at all. 0:51:30.807 --> 0:51:33.367 I'm kind of joking about that. Yeah, be a be 0:51:33.487 --> 0:51:35.247 as kind as you can for as long as you can. 0:51:35.847 --> 0:51:37.487 And then but as you say, we're not perfect. 0:51:37.527 --> 0:51:39.847 We're not perfect, and we cannot be perfect, and we 0:51:39.927 --> 0:51:43.087 try our best, and some days our best is pretty poor. 0:51:43.127 --> 0:51:46.607 And I speak for myself marrying Keith. 0:51:46.647 --> 0:51:48.407 Thank you. I don't think Tara Flynn needs to worry 0:51:48.407 --> 0:51:53.607 about them. Wonderful now you're asking, but I so appreciate you. 0:51:53.607 --> 0:51:54.407 You were lovely. 0:51:54.767 --> 0:51:57.487 Thank you, yes, but I so appreciate you answering our 0:51:57.527 --> 0:51:58.487 listeners questions. 0:51:58.607 --> 0:51:59.727 It was an honor. 0:52:00.247 --> 0:52:03.527 Thank you, and thank you so much for writing another 0:52:03.607 --> 0:52:08.127 wonderful book, all the wonderful books. I really appreciate it, 0:52:08.167 --> 0:52:08.967 so thank you so much. 0:52:08.967 --> 0:52:11.487 It's my absolute pleasure. Holly, thank you so much for 0:52:11.527 --> 0:52:11.927 having me. 0:52:12.087 --> 0:52:21.927 It's been a joy. How good was that now? It 0:52:22.087 --> 0:52:24.207 was such a delight. And of course, if you want 0:52:24.247 --> 0:52:26.967 to know more about Marian read her books all those things. 0:52:27.007 --> 0:52:29.367 There are links in the show notes. But if you 0:52:29.407 --> 0:52:32.647 want to hear another conversation with an incredible author, please 0:52:32.647 --> 0:52:35.727 scroll back in your feed and find my conversations with 0:52:35.847 --> 0:52:39.887 Leanne Moriadi or with Jane Tara right here on MID. 0:52:40.967 --> 0:52:43.847 If you have a dilemma that you would like us 0:52:43.887 --> 0:52:46.167 to tackle on mid, we would like to do that 0:52:46.247 --> 0:52:48.527 for you, and we've got an address week and send them. 0:52:48.567 --> 0:52:51.367 It's helped me at mamamea dot com dot au. And 0:52:51.447 --> 0:52:54.167 if you send us any dilemmas there, who knows who 0:52:54.247 --> 0:52:57.367 might answer them with me for you. We didn't necessarily 0:52:57.367 --> 0:52:58.927 know maryan Keyth was going to do that, but she 0:52:58.967 --> 0:53:01.487 certainly did. Thank you. For being with us here on 0:53:01.567 --> 0:53:03.927 mid We have loved it. I would love you to 0:53:03.967 --> 0:53:06.047 be here with us next week too, for the final 0:53:06.127 --> 0:53:10.407 episode of this current season. The executive of this episode 0:53:10.487 --> 0:53:13.447 his name A Brown. The producer is Charlie Blackman, and 0:53:13.487 --> 0:53:16.567 we've had audio production from Jacob Brown. And a massive 0:53:16.607 --> 0:53:19.447 thanks to all of them and to you. See you 0:53:19.487 --> 0:53:19.927 next week.