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Speaker 1: You're listening to I'MM with mea podcast. Makeup is my therapy.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to you beauty. This is the formula

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Speaker 3: and I'm Keeley mccarrott. Have you ever ordered a tiny,

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Speaker 3: little beauty product and then it arrived in a huge

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Speaker 3: box filled with enough bubble wrap to choke a whale?

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Speaker 1: I know I have, and the guilt is real.

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Speaker 3: Today we're deep diving into a topic that is becoming

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Speaker 3: non negotiable for all of us, sustainable beauty.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is the entrepreneur.

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Speaker 3: Who solved her own business's massive packaging problem and accidentally

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Speaker 3: became Australia's leading expert in eco friendly shipping.

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Speaker 1: She's the co founder and CEO of Hero.

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Speaker 3: Packaging, servicing over forty five thousand online retailers, and the

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Speaker 3: author of Sell Anything Online. Get ready to find out

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Speaker 3: what the future of our routines looks like with less waste.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Formula.

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Speaker 3: Anita Sukha, you're such beautiful skill But how all right?

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Speaker 3: So let's start with the moment that changed everything. You've

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Speaker 3: told the story of seeing your own children playing in

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Speaker 3: a pile of plastic waste from your first business. Like,

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Speaker 3: explain how you felt in that moment and what was

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Speaker 3: the exact spark that made you decide I really need

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Speaker 3: to solve this problem with waste.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a big question. I wasn't explaining. Also, what

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Speaker 1: your first business, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So before Hero, I had this other business which was

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Speaker 2: like personalizing leather goods onto you know, bags and wallets

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Speaker 2: and things, and I loved it. It was called Olivia

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Speaker 2: and Co.

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Speaker 1: And it was like a direct copy of you know,

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Speaker 1: The Daily Edited. I just wanted to get out of.

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Speaker 2: A nine to five and I started this business and

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Speaker 2: I just loved it. Like I realized that that's all

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do in my life was be in business.

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Speaker 2: And so this small business was growing and it was

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Speaker 2: like one order a day, ten orders a day, and

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Speaker 2: then there was this one moment, like it was peak

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Speaker 2: season and I had sixty orders coming in a day

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Speaker 2: and I was so excited.

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Speaker 1: It was school holidays. I was packaging orders.

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Speaker 2: I got my two girls, who were really young at

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Speaker 2: the time, and they came in and they were packing

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Speaker 2: with me, and it was just like this one moment

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Speaker 2: I looked around the room and it was packages everywhere,

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Speaker 2: like piled up sixty eighty packages, all plastic, all single use,

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Speaker 2: and my kids were sitting there in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the piles, like playing with all that waste and thinking

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Speaker 2: it was so cool and tying it up and platting it.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, that's disgusting.

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Speaker 2: I never really thought about waste before, like all sustainability.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't really something that I grew up with.

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Speaker 2: But I looked around the room and I was like,

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Speaker 2: m that looks really terrible, and I can't believe this

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Speaker 2: is one business, one business day, one person making all

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Speaker 2: this waste, and it's going to go straight into the bin.

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Speaker 2: And so it was that moment I looked around and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I think I want to make a

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Speaker 2: change for my business and I don't want to use

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Speaker 2: this plastic. And it was just like a tiny little

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Speaker 2: thought that I had, and I went home and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm just going to find the solution when

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Speaker 2: I really was like creating Hero, before even creating the business,

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Speaker 2: all I wanted to do was just not use plastic

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Speaker 2: in my own business. It was not meant to be

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Speaker 2: a business idea. I just didn't want to use all that.

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Speaker 3: More so that you thought I need to find a

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Speaker 3: better way to package my product.

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Speaker 1: Correct. I wanted something so that I wasn't putting the.

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Speaker 2: Burden on my customers to like throw it in the

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Speaker 2: bin and feel crap about it.

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Speaker 3: And for anyone playing along at home, when you think

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Speaker 3: about how much waste there was from sixty sales in

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Speaker 3: the day, let us take a moment to think about

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Speaker 3: what the factory of Shean would look.

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Speaker 1: Like exactly exactly. It's actually terrified. Have you actually ordered

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Speaker 1: from Shean?

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Speaker 3: No, I am morally opposed. But then someone pointed out

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Speaker 3: that it's not that much better from Amazon. I have

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Speaker 3: ordered on Amazon, so I'm like, I, actually, that's so true.

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Speaker 3: I haven't ordered from Shean, but I have seen the

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Speaker 3: halls on TikTok Oh.

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Speaker 1: They're discussing it's disgusting.

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Speaker 2: It's actually just waste everywhere, Like they're ripping open these

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Speaker 2: packages and it's just one person buying four things, but

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Speaker 2: the plastic waste.

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Speaker 1: Is still lower.

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Speaker 3: And it's also like then they just are ordering ridiculous

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Speaker 3: things for the views and it's the amount of consumption

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Speaker 3: and waste that companies like and I will say at

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Speaker 3: least on Amazon, you're only purchasing things that you need,

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Speaker 3: like you're not doing holes. Yes, well i've never seen

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Speaker 3: anyone go this is what I got in my Amazon hall.

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Speaker 2: No, they do in America, and that's coming here, right,

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Speaker 2: So they're going to do like all the halls here

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Speaker 2: because all the fashion is coming here that hasn't launched on.

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Speaker 1: Amazon yet that's coming. Unfortunately, it's all just plastic crap.

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Speaker 1: It is it is.

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Speaker 3: So you went out and you were like, Okay, I

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Speaker 3: can't find it, and then that's when you decided to

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Speaker 3: talk to us about that process.

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Speaker 1: Then well, oh rats, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.

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Speaker 2: Well, what existed was boxes and paper packaging, both horrible

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Speaker 2: for my business. Boxes super expensive to ship it just

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Speaker 2: like three x to my shipping fee.

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Speaker 1: And then paper was like you put a little droplet

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Speaker 1: of water on it and it just like breaks apart.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I can't use anything like that.

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Speaker 2: And then I went to Woolies and I saw a

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Speaker 2: fruit and vegetable bag which was compostible, and I was like.

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Speaker 1: That's what I want, that's what I need, and.

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Speaker 2: So I just took that concept and I took a

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Speaker 2: photo and I sent it to Ali Barber Manufacturers and

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Speaker 2: I was like, go make this for me, and they

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Speaker 2: were like, this is not possible. Took me nine months,

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Speaker 2: but I was like a dog with a bone. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I got to solve this thing. And then

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Speaker 2: nine months later I got my first prototype, which actually

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Speaker 2: looked good and it looked and acted like plastic, but

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Speaker 2: it was like strong. And then I put in my

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Speaker 2: home compost bin and I could see it breaking down

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, I think I've

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Speaker 2: solved my own problem. This is the coolest thing ever.

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Speaker 2: I guess as an entrepreneur, you just feel so excited

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Speaker 2: because you're like, I think I solved this. It's all

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Speaker 2: you want to do in life. You just want to

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Speaker 2: solve problems. And so then I was like, great, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to do it. The problem that I had was

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Speaker 2: that I needed to order ten thousand as a minimum

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Speaker 2: order quantity.

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Speaker 1: How was I going to use ten thousand?

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Speaker 2: I was shipping sixty orders a day, and so then

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Speaker 2: I asked all my business friends if they wanted it,

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Speaker 2: and they were like hell yeah. And so then I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, I think I've got a business.

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Speaker 2: Like fifteen out of fifteen people said yes. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, I think I've got a business idea, and

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where it all started.

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Speaker 1: And what do you think made people say yes straight away?

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Speaker 3: Because obviously it is more expensive than plastic I'm assuming

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Speaker 3: it is. Yeah, what do you think drove that? And

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Speaker 3: you she'll just straight away yes from everyone.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because I use the word sustainable, and

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Speaker 2: I said, do you want to not use plastic anymore?

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Speaker 2: I've got this alternative? Can you test it for me?

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Speaker 2: Would you be interested in just trying it? It was

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Speaker 2: just a trying moment and they were all like, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: we want to try that.

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Speaker 3: I really love that though, because I have to admit

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Speaker 3: that I am often quite cynical, I think, and I

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Speaker 3: just always assume that a lot of companies choose the

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Speaker 3: sustainable option if there is one, because they want to

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Speaker 3: be able to tell their customers that they are a

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Speaker 3: sustainable brand. Yeah, they're looking after things on a eco front.

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Speaker 3: So it's actually quite not that they didn't even know

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Speaker 3: if they would be able to market as such, I

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Speaker 3: guess yeah, but that they were straight away like yes.

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Speaker 2: I mean I think for them it was like if

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Speaker 2: there is something even a little bit better than what

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Speaker 2: I'm currently using?

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Speaker 1: Why not give it a go? When Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: they're witnessing the sheer amount of shit and everyone is right.

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Speaker 2: And then also what I find is that customers tend

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Speaker 2: to complain a lot, and rightfully, so they complain and

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Speaker 2: they ask questions and they're constantly hounding businesses now about like, hey,

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Speaker 2: so where do I put this? Do I put this

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Speaker 2: in the bin? Do I put it in a recycling bin?

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Speaker 2: What do I do with it? Like I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm buying all your bottles of stuff?

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Speaker 1: What do I do with it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: There's no instructions, and so business owners are always trying

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Speaker 2: to solve that for their customers too.

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Speaker 1: So it was like a really easy.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah yeah, because I guess then they're making up

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Speaker 3: that cost because they're not dealing with hundreds of customer

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Speaker 3: inquiries per day. Yeah, so we've all felt that pang

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Speaker 3: of just oh. And I mean it happens to me

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Speaker 3: still so often where I will get something I've ordered

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Speaker 3: or it's pr and it's a giant.

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Speaker 1: Box that arrives at my house. Yeah, oh cool, what's in?

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Speaker 1: That's fine?

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Speaker 3: The amount of just plastic and crap that's inside that

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Speaker 3: box for a product that's like a couple of lip glosses.

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Speaker 3: It's just insane. So we've all sort of had one

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Speaker 3: of those experiences, I think with plastic. But it was

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Speaker 3: that pang that then led you to heroes. So were

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Speaker 3: you for a while then using it for that monogrammed

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Speaker 3: leather goods sprant?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all I used it for, And then it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that you dove straight into the hero business now.

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Speaker 2: So I just remember calling my husband when everyone said

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Speaker 2: yes they want to try it. I remember calling him going, hey,

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Speaker 2: I think I've got a business idea and he's like,

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Speaker 2: what's new.

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Speaker 1: He was like, explore it.

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Speaker 2: And he said to me, I think this is a

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Speaker 2: really good idea. If you can get our first one

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Speaker 2: hundred paying customers, I'll leave my job and I'll join

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Speaker 2: you in that. And so he was like, if you

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Speaker 2: can do that for me, I'll actually leave my job.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, challenge accepted. So my job was

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Speaker 2: to get one hundred paying customers. And you know what,

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Speaker 2: the way I did that was so clever, Thank you

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Speaker 2: very much.

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Speaker 3: Me.

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Speaker 2: I did a Google ad and I basically like ran

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Speaker 2: it to a page where I was giving away free mailers,

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Speaker 2: and I just said, take a free mailer. And then

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Speaker 2: a week later we had over one thousand people. And

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Speaker 2: I said to my husband, I'm like, we've got a

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Speaker 2: thousand customers. He's like, no, they haven't paid for anything yet,

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Speaker 2: So until you get a hundred. And then about two

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Speaker 2: months later we had seventy percent of them come back,

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Speaker 2: which is our first seven hundred paying customers. And then

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I got a business.

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Speaker 1: He quit his job, Oh my god, within a few months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think is the biggest thing in

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Speaker 3: sustainable packaging that a lot of brands are going to

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Speaker 3: jump on or are jumping on right.

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Speaker 1: Now from what I've seen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know we've heard about this one hundred times,

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Speaker 2: but refillable packaging is like a huge thing. So like Dermalogica,

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Speaker 2: for example, they're like focused on refills, constant refills. They

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Speaker 2: can get a little bit confusing and a little bit messy,

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Speaker 2: and they're very hard logistically to do, but refills are

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Speaker 2: a huge one.

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Speaker 1: And so it's how many things you can't refill?

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Speaker 2: You can't I'm going to and people don't buy it,

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Speaker 2: I know, Like that's something that they're focused on. I

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Speaker 2: think something else is, you know what brands should be

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Speaker 2: focused on is like more information and more education.

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Speaker 1: It's actually not that hard to do.

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Speaker 2: So if I was a brand, I would be having

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Speaker 2: like you know, if you have your beauty products or

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Speaker 2: you've got a box or something, and they're like, but

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Speaker 2: I have no space to put on like recycle or

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Speaker 2: do this or do that, or it's made from XYZ.

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Speaker 1: Have a little QR code.

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Speaker 2: I would just want all beauty, any brand to have

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Speaker 2: a QR code and that can go to a live

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Speaker 2: page that you can constantly update and has all the

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Speaker 2: stuff on there.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's something that I think is like such a small

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Speaker 2: thing that brands can do, but they don't. I think

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Speaker 2: another thing that brands are doing, which I think is

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Speaker 2: awesome so tbh or like the breakout hack, what she's

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Speaker 2: doing is using sugar cane like materials for all of

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Speaker 2: her beauty packaging as well. So that's like renewable sources

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Speaker 2: and it's also much easier at end of life. It's

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Speaker 2: just like a really good natural product that you can use.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's like a bunch of things that

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Speaker 2: you can do, but big brands they need to do

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Speaker 2: is one is think about the consumer first refills. If

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Speaker 2: customers don't like them and they're not going to use them,

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Speaker 2: stop focusing on them. Maybe focus on education and teaching

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Speaker 2: people to not over consume first.

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Speaker 1: I would say, that's like number one. How do you

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Speaker 1: think that we can do that? Though? How do you

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Speaker 1: think businesses can do that?

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Speaker 3: Because for me as a podcaster, the way that I

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Speaker 3: do it is I'm like, I know that I'm recommending

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Speaker 3: another new Miscara, but I'm not telling you to go

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Speaker 3: buy it. I'm telling you to go buy it if

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Speaker 3: you're looking for a new one exactly like wait until

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Speaker 3: you're done finished. You don't need six miscas.

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Speaker 1: No one does.

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Speaker 2: So that's one thing. Another thing I would say is

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Speaker 2: like multi use products would be really good at this.

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Speaker 2: So instead of going like buy a shampoo and a

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Speaker 2: body wash and a face wash and this and that,

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Speaker 2: and you've got like nine hundred steps in your shower routine,

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Speaker 2: there are some really cool brands out there that are

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Speaker 2: like amalgamating I guess few things in one so like

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Speaker 2: the hair wash as a soap is a body wash

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Speaker 2: as well, and it works in both capacities. Even do

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Speaker 2: you with that little hack back in the day. What's

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Speaker 2: that Dandriff brand that is nice or something?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the people are that as a face wise, yes,

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Speaker 2: and like you can actually clear a lot of your

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Speaker 2: acne with that. And it's an anti Dandriff shampoo as

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Speaker 2: well because it's antibacterial. Antibacterial, so like multi use products

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Speaker 2: can actually save on a lot of waste too. It's

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Speaker 2: like a really simple thing that brands can do.

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Speaker 3: What's the biggest thing that you see beauty companies do

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Speaker 3: in terms of green washing? Because I think that that

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Speaker 3: is more rife than ever, Like with the people saying

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Speaker 3: different claims or saying that you can compost something but

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Speaker 3: you can't, or clean beauty.

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Speaker 1: In all of those silly claims, you are saying exactly

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Speaker 1: the right thing.

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Speaker 2: I think it's when you use words like we are

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Speaker 2: more sustainable than before, You're like, uh.

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Speaker 1: Than what though, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: I think it's like the little words in there that

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Speaker 2: they use eco friendly and sustainable green washing. There was

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Speaker 2: a study done where they asked a whole like thousands

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Speaker 2: of consumers what they look for in beauty products when

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Speaker 2: it comes to labeling, and the first one that they

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Speaker 2: voted on was non toxic second one was cruelty free,

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Speaker 2: and the third one was sustainable.

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Speaker 1: But what all three of those things are just marketing words, right?

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Speaker 2: And do you know what's so interesting about this is

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Speaker 2: that sustainability in a lot of big brands is actually

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Speaker 2: under the marketing department and not under like product.

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Speaker 3: Because it just means, like this perception is everything exactly.

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Speaker 3: They probably plant a tree a year. Yeah, maybe reduced

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Speaker 3: plastic by five percent over the past twenty years. Correct,

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Speaker 3: It is just a marketing term, just like toxic non toxic. Well,

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Speaker 3: does that mean everything's toxic in a large enough dose?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: You can't say chemical free either. Everything is a chemical.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense. So what I want is like

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Speaker 2: when you are looking at a product, I want you

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Speaker 2: to train yourself and basically look at it and go, Okay,

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Speaker 2: someone has said they are a clean beauty product or

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Speaker 2: they are sustainable. How just ask yourself how? And so

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Speaker 2: when you ask yourself that question, it's like, okay, doesn't

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Speaker 2: say anywhere on the bottle what that means. So sometimes

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Speaker 2: what brands will do is go, we are more green

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Speaker 2: or we are eco friendly. This bottle is made from

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Speaker 2: fifty percent bio based materials. And then you have to

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Speaker 2: like look a little bit further and go you're made

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Speaker 2: from bio based materials, which actually means the other fifty

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Speaker 2: percent is petroleum based. Then it also means it can't

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Speaker 2: go in a recycle bin because it's mixed materials. You're

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Speaker 2: not making sense. So instead of saying that I'm sustainable,

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Speaker 2: do you know what brands should floody do, which I

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Speaker 2: would love is actually just have something on their website

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Speaker 2: or their report or whatever which says like, we are struggling,

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Speaker 2: but this is what.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I just would love to see a

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Speaker 2: little bit more transparency around this as well.

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Speaker 3: When you're looking at the bottle or package of something,

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Speaker 3: there's a huge difference between someone that's just said non toxic,

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Speaker 3: which means nothing, or this product doesn't have XYZ in it,

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Speaker 3: which might be specific ingredients you're looking like just the

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Speaker 3: language different. I think it's specifics, exact use, color and fun.

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Speaker 3: At what stage did hero packaging turn into really fun colors?

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that it wasn't or did it from the

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Speaker 3: get go?

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Speaker 1: It was from the get go. I mean, packaging is

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Speaker 1: boring as hell.

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Speaker 2: Sustainability is boring as hell too, Like cardboard boxes are boring.

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Speaker 2: That's what we do with manufactured boxes all day long,

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Speaker 2: and so decided to make it a little bit fun. Well,

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Speaker 2: we have to because and I think that if any

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Speaker 2: brand is starting and you don't have a personality, what

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Speaker 2: you're doing is selling a product and you could probably

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Speaker 2: get that product anywhere. So what you need to do

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Speaker 2: is have some kind of personality to shine through, to

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Speaker 2: cut through the noise. Like one thing we did was

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Speaker 2: so we have compostible packaging, right, we started with three colors, pink, black,

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Speaker 2: and white. And the pink we chose was like that

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Speaker 2: millennial pink, you know, Frank Body style, And we thought, well,

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Speaker 2: Frank body was big at the time, and I remember

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Speaker 2: just thinking, if we have that pink, so many brands

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Speaker 2: are trying to copy them, and they're going to use

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Speaker 2: our pink. And they did, and we got tagged and

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Speaker 2: we got shared and mentioned on social media so much.

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Speaker 1: It was like one of the best things that we did.

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Speaker 2: So we realized that color is actually a big part

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Speaker 2: of selling our packaging, which a lot of.

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Speaker 3: People wouldn't consider. They would just think, oh, just make

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Speaker 3: it make it.

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Speaker 2: Back, yeah, make it white, like you're plain, that's all

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Speaker 2: you need, and like that's what packaging is. It's boring,

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Speaker 2: but packaging can actually like make the entire experience so good.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you're starting a brand, the best

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Speaker 2: thing that can happen to you is like people tag you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you have to be taggable for that to happen.

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Speaker 3: Yes, to say like thank you for like this looks

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00:16:33,994 --> 00:16:34,914
Speaker 3: like a present or.

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00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:37,274
Speaker 1: Yes, and they want to take a photo of it.

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Speaker 3: Yes. I always think of Glossy Air as a good

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Speaker 3: example of like just brilliant branding. Yes, because I was

380
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Speaker 3: in New York once and went into I don't care

381
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Speaker 3: about the products, but I went into the store to

382
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Speaker 3: take a photo and to like look around at everything

383
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Speaker 3: because it was just so esthetic and so oh it's

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Speaker 3: so beautiful, and the whole experience I so lovely, Like

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Speaker 3: you want to buy something even if the products aren't good,

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Speaker 3: because it's an experience.

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Speaker 1: But no over consumption, yes, exactly the pouch.

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Speaker 2: No, But that happens to me with Charlotte Tilbury too,

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00:17:05,114 --> 00:17:07,714
Speaker 2: you know, because it's so like glittery and like glam

390
00:17:07,754 --> 00:17:09,154
Speaker 2: and you think, oh if I because I.

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Speaker 3: Could look like that, Yeah, I'll look like that very

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Speaker 3: face tuned, blurring person with glitter over them. That's what

393
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Speaker 3: I want when we think about like you touched on refills,

394
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Speaker 3: but they're still quite messy.

395
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Speaker 1: Is that actually logistically helping? Do you think?

396
00:17:29,554 --> 00:17:32,194
Speaker 3: Is it something that's actually going to be really convenient

397
00:17:32,234 --> 00:17:34,434
Speaker 3: and scalable for people? Because so many, as you said,

398
00:17:34,474 --> 00:17:37,754
Speaker 3: so many people are introducing it into their business model,

399
00:17:37,794 --> 00:17:40,554
Speaker 3: and to be completely honest, it is sometimes in really

400
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Speaker 3: ridiculous categories.

401
00:17:42,154 --> 00:17:45,474
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's truly scalable, if I'm honest

402
00:17:45,514 --> 00:17:48,194
Speaker 2: with you, because I feel like big businesses might be

403
00:17:48,234 --> 00:17:50,033
Speaker 2: able to make it work, but it's actually not what

404
00:17:50,074 --> 00:17:52,553
Speaker 2: they're trying to do. It's what the customer will end

405
00:17:52,674 --> 00:17:54,914
Speaker 2: up doing. And the customer is going to end up

406
00:17:54,954 --> 00:17:58,073
Speaker 2: buying the same product in the same bodle over and

407
00:17:58,114 --> 00:18:01,234
Speaker 2: over again rather than buy the refills and read and

408
00:18:01,274 --> 00:18:02,114
Speaker 2: like pour.

409
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Speaker 1: In something and do something like that.

410
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Speaker 2: Unless you're making it super easy, like putting a little

411
00:18:06,794 --> 00:18:09,313
Speaker 2: fun in there, and then you're like helping them to

412
00:18:09,354 --> 00:18:10,354
Speaker 2: do it, it's so.

413
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Speaker 3: Hard giving them an incentive, a really good incentive.

414
00:18:14,114 --> 00:18:16,754
Speaker 2: Yes, Like so exactly, what's that one where you can

415
00:18:16,754 --> 00:18:18,674
Speaker 2: return your bottles and get like ten cents you know

416
00:18:18,874 --> 00:18:21,114
Speaker 2: kids do that, like you return plastic bottles and then

417
00:18:21,154 --> 00:18:23,474
Speaker 2: you get that you can do things like that too,

418
00:18:23,634 --> 00:18:26,474
Speaker 2: but ultimately free refills, like but you had to go

419
00:18:26,594 --> 00:18:28,274
Speaker 2: in store or something that would be cool.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that would be so then a lot

421
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Speaker 1: of people would still them. How would the business make money?

422
00:18:33,234 --> 00:18:36,714
Speaker 3: Though, Well, they've got a charge of awful lot for

423
00:18:36,754 --> 00:18:40,273
Speaker 3: the upfront bottle and have it just so beautiful that

424
00:18:40,354 --> 00:18:42,514
Speaker 3: a lot of people want it. But it's probably then

425
00:18:42,554 --> 00:18:44,874
Speaker 3: only like we get free refills for a year and

426
00:18:44,914 --> 00:18:46,114
Speaker 3: then you've got to pay for the next year or

427
00:18:46,154 --> 00:18:47,553
Speaker 3: something like that, like a subscription.

428
00:18:47,834 --> 00:18:50,474
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that, Yeah, I think that might be the

429
00:18:50,514 --> 00:18:51,033
Speaker 2: right thing to do.

430
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Speaker 3: I love a subscription model. But the problem is is

431
00:18:54,594 --> 00:18:58,634
Speaker 3: that in this society of overconsumption is that people are

432
00:18:58,634 --> 00:19:02,594
Speaker 3: always wanting to try different things. Something on TikTok and

433
00:19:02,594 --> 00:19:04,194
Speaker 3: they'll be like, I want to try that new cool brand.

434
00:19:04,194 --> 00:19:06,553
Speaker 3: Who cares about the old one? Like, no one's loyal

435
00:19:06,594 --> 00:19:07,354
Speaker 3: to different.

436
00:19:07,634 --> 00:19:09,834
Speaker 2: It's the social media side of things that it's made

437
00:19:09,834 --> 00:19:10,874
Speaker 2: it so much worse.

438
00:19:11,234 --> 00:19:13,634
Speaker 1: And I have fallen victim to this, Like I do it.

439
00:19:14,514 --> 00:19:17,914
Speaker 3: I'm disappointed. Yeah, as good as what it looked like online.

440
00:19:17,514 --> 00:19:18,794
Speaker 1: We can't do that anymore.

441
00:19:18,834 --> 00:19:20,994
Speaker 2: This planet is actually not going to survive if we

442
00:19:21,074 --> 00:19:21,834
Speaker 2: keep working.

443
00:19:21,714 --> 00:19:24,314
Speaker 1: Like it exactly and we are well.

444
00:19:24,394 --> 00:19:27,634
Speaker 3: I'm saying that to you as someone that recommends things though,

445
00:19:27,674 --> 00:19:28,834
Speaker 3: but once again, it's if.

446
00:19:28,714 --> 00:19:29,234
Speaker 1: You need it.

447
00:19:29,794 --> 00:19:32,273
Speaker 3: There was this last year we were talking about a

448
00:19:32,314 --> 00:19:34,194
Speaker 3: couple of things from Kmart and then it was sold out.

449
00:19:34,234 --> 00:19:36,874
Speaker 3: It like every came up and it's like, guys, yeah,

450
00:19:37,834 --> 00:19:40,513
Speaker 3: love that, you love and trust our recommendation so much,

451
00:19:40,554 --> 00:19:42,154
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure not every single.

452
00:19:41,914 --> 00:19:44,594
Speaker 1: Person in Australia needed it. YEP, I agree with you.

453
00:19:44,994 --> 00:19:46,954
Speaker 2: And now you can see Kmart doing the dupes right

454
00:19:46,994 --> 00:19:50,074
Speaker 2: like they're doing the MC style dupes as well, and

455
00:19:50,474 --> 00:19:53,114
Speaker 2: it's just that thing of like that younger consumer. I

456
00:19:53,114 --> 00:19:55,194
Speaker 2: was actually listening to one of your episodes, like that

457
00:19:55,314 --> 00:19:59,674
Speaker 2: younger consumer is like really going after these high end products,

458
00:19:59,714 --> 00:20:01,874
Speaker 2: but they want the dupe version and they're just buying

459
00:20:01,874 --> 00:20:03,634
Speaker 2: them left, right and center. I just I have an

460
00:20:03,674 --> 00:20:06,434
Speaker 2: eleven year old girl and her birthday party was they

461
00:20:06,434 --> 00:20:07,114
Speaker 2: all just said to me.

462
00:20:07,154 --> 00:20:07,914
Speaker 1: I said, what do you want to do?

463
00:20:07,954 --> 00:20:09,794
Speaker 2: And they said, we just want to go to kmart

464
00:20:09,794 --> 00:20:12,834
Speaker 2: and buy like all the skincare jubes. And I was like, no,

465
00:20:12,914 --> 00:20:15,553
Speaker 2: can we go and play like mini golf or something.

466
00:20:15,714 --> 00:20:18,754
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what they mean. Caramont is fine. I will

467
00:20:18,754 --> 00:20:19,874
Speaker 1: say it's going on.

468
00:20:19,994 --> 00:20:20,434
Speaker 3: If I was.

469
00:20:20,474 --> 00:20:25,194
Speaker 2: Eleven eleven and buying skincare Jube, no no, I was like, no,

470
00:20:25,234 --> 00:20:25,994
Speaker 2: that's not happening.

471
00:20:26,234 --> 00:20:30,354
Speaker 3: What would you say with Hero was the biggest challenge

472
00:20:30,394 --> 00:20:33,474
Speaker 3: in trying to make the packaging sustainable? You said it

473
00:20:33,474 --> 00:20:34,354
Speaker 3: took nine months?

474
00:20:34,474 --> 00:20:36,994
Speaker 2: Did it took nine months to make it sustainable and

475
00:20:37,034 --> 00:20:37,954
Speaker 2: to make it what I wanted?

476
00:20:38,034 --> 00:20:38,194
Speaker 1: Yeah?

477
00:20:38,234 --> 00:20:40,474
Speaker 2: That was the That was the biggest challenge of all time.

478
00:20:40,674 --> 00:20:43,474
Speaker 2: Second challenge I will say is that sustainable products are

479
00:20:43,514 --> 00:20:46,634
Speaker 2: more expensive, So trying to convince every brand in Australia

480
00:20:46,714 --> 00:20:48,793
Speaker 2: to buy sustainable products, even though they want to be

481
00:20:48,794 --> 00:20:52,754
Speaker 2: a sustainable brand, they can't justify the price and therefore they'll.

482
00:20:52,554 --> 00:20:53,874
Speaker 1: Go back to the cheaper products.

483
00:20:53,874 --> 00:20:56,794
Speaker 2: The cheaper and nasty thing is that's a really big

484
00:20:56,834 --> 00:20:59,954
Speaker 2: part of my business that we're trying to convince people.

485
00:21:00,274 --> 00:21:02,314
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that, it's really important.

486
00:21:02,354 --> 00:21:05,194
Speaker 2: So what we do, actually I think it's pretty smart,

487
00:21:05,594 --> 00:21:10,234
Speaker 2: is try and educate the end customer to demand sustainability

488
00:21:10,314 --> 00:21:12,513
Speaker 2: from the brands that they buy from. So we're not

489
00:21:12,674 --> 00:21:16,033
Speaker 2: educating the brands we're educating the end consumers to demand

490
00:21:16,034 --> 00:21:17,314
Speaker 2: that from from the brands.

491
00:21:17,394 --> 00:21:26,034
Speaker 3: Yeah, you went the opposite from industry, the big dogs.

492
00:21:26,754 --> 00:21:29,874
Speaker 3: How do you think people can cut through the noise

493
00:21:29,914 --> 00:21:30,794
Speaker 3: in a crowded market?

494
00:21:30,874 --> 00:21:31,394
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

495
00:21:31,434 --> 00:21:34,394
Speaker 2: So I actually came prepared for this question, by the way,

496
00:21:34,794 --> 00:21:37,194
Speaker 2: because I have like six things that I want to

497
00:21:37,234 --> 00:21:39,234
Speaker 2: tell everyone that I think that they need to do.

498
00:21:39,714 --> 00:21:43,434
Speaker 2: So the first one is, instead of thinking about being better,

499
00:21:43,474 --> 00:21:47,114
Speaker 2: I want everyone to think about being remarkably different from

500
00:21:47,154 --> 00:21:49,794
Speaker 2: anyone else. So if you're starting, don't think about like,

501
00:21:49,834 --> 00:21:51,154
Speaker 2: how can I be better than that brand?

502
00:21:51,274 --> 00:21:52,954
Speaker 1: Or No, it doesn't work if someone will come and

503
00:21:52,994 --> 00:21:53,513
Speaker 1: beat you with that.

504
00:21:53,994 --> 00:21:56,594
Speaker 2: I think being remarkably different is such an interesting way

505
00:21:56,594 --> 00:21:59,114
Speaker 2: to look at things. So, for example, there's so much

506
00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:01,874
Speaker 2: talk about clean beauty. You know everyone is clean beauty

507
00:22:01,914 --> 00:22:03,674
Speaker 2: now right, There is a brand that's come out and

508
00:22:03,674 --> 00:22:07,554
Speaker 2: said we're dirty beauty, and I love that love because

509
00:22:07,554 --> 00:22:10,834
Speaker 2: it's about creating skincare from the soil and they use

510
00:22:10,874 --> 00:22:13,154
Speaker 2: grounded stuff and they call it dirty beauty and I.

511
00:22:13,114 --> 00:22:15,513
Speaker 1: Was like, so just to play at different, it shows

512
00:22:15,554 --> 00:22:17,354
Speaker 1: how silly the whole clean beauty.

513
00:22:17,474 --> 00:22:20,834
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. I want everyone to think about being really different.

514
00:22:21,074 --> 00:22:25,833
Speaker 2: Second thing I would do is to immediately go and

515
00:22:25,914 --> 00:22:28,194
Speaker 2: send out your products and gain feedback from one hundred

516
00:22:28,234 --> 00:22:31,194
Speaker 2: people straight away. Those people are going to be everything

517
00:22:31,234 --> 00:22:33,033
Speaker 2: to you because you need to know how to improve

518
00:22:33,114 --> 00:22:36,114
Speaker 2: really quickly. I would also say create the VIP focus

519
00:22:36,194 --> 00:22:39,674
Speaker 2: group and the breakout hack. Like Rach does this really well.

520
00:22:39,794 --> 00:22:41,834
Speaker 2: Every time she launches a new product or a brand,

521
00:22:42,194 --> 00:22:44,794
Speaker 2: she has a focus group or multiple focus groups where

522
00:22:44,834 --> 00:22:48,114
Speaker 2: she asks them questions and then iterates her products based

523
00:22:48,114 --> 00:22:50,954
Speaker 2: on their feedback, so they feel like they've created the

524
00:22:50,994 --> 00:22:54,114
Speaker 2: products with her. She has buy in from them, and

525
00:22:54,154 --> 00:22:56,394
Speaker 2: then they go and tell all their friends, so immediately

526
00:22:56,394 --> 00:23:00,274
Speaker 2: she's got inbuilt customers, which I just love. Number four

527
00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:02,474
Speaker 2: is I play pickleball.

528
00:23:02,514 --> 00:23:05,194
Speaker 1: I don't know. I forgot about you and the pickaball.

529
00:23:05,234 --> 00:23:08,714
Speaker 3: Okay, when I were talking, you were like going on

530
00:23:08,754 --> 00:23:09,594
Speaker 3: about pickleballs.

531
00:23:09,754 --> 00:23:12,513
Speaker 1: I feel the same about netball, do you really?

532
00:23:12,914 --> 00:23:13,114
Speaker 3: Yes?

533
00:23:13,394 --> 00:23:16,914
Speaker 1: Sir? Still yes? Neple is for like you when you're eleven.

534
00:23:17,234 --> 00:23:18,954
Speaker 1: It's not for eleven year olds.

535
00:23:19,634 --> 00:23:22,033
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've met any grown ups who play,

536
00:23:22,074 --> 00:23:24,994
Speaker 2: you've met me. Well, I love pickleball, and my point

537
00:23:25,154 --> 00:23:27,314
Speaker 2: is that, like if I was starting a beauty brand,

538
00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:31,914
Speaker 2: I would niche down so much into something like to

539
00:23:31,954 --> 00:23:33,033
Speaker 2: the point of obsession.

540
00:23:33,354 --> 00:23:35,754
Speaker 1: So it's like, I love pickleball, you love netple.

541
00:23:36,074 --> 00:23:40,313
Speaker 2: I would create a beauty or skincare brand based on

542
00:23:40,754 --> 00:23:43,954
Speaker 2: you know, women who love pickleball.

543
00:23:43,874 --> 00:23:44,714
Speaker 1: Chafe from it all.

544
00:23:44,794 --> 00:23:48,234
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, something really specific and like go right down,

545
00:23:48,274 --> 00:23:50,594
Speaker 2: because then you've got your customers, even if it's one

546
00:23:50,674 --> 00:23:53,273
Speaker 2: hundred people, like, you've got them for life.

547
00:23:53,474 --> 00:23:55,553
Speaker 1: And I think that could be the product to go

548
00:23:55,634 --> 00:23:56,474
Speaker 1: to for that group.

549
00:23:56,634 --> 00:23:58,874
Speaker 3: I forget who said it, but I was listening to

550
00:23:58,914 --> 00:24:01,594
Speaker 3: someone speak once and they pointed out, all you need

551
00:24:01,674 --> 00:24:03,714
Speaker 3: is a hundred people that believe in you, willing to

552
00:24:03,714 --> 00:24:05,833
Speaker 3: spend one hundred dollars over the course of a year.

553
00:24:05,874 --> 00:24:08,234
Speaker 1: And that's one hundred thousand dollars, that's ten thousand.

554
00:24:08,234 --> 00:24:10,994
Speaker 2: Oh but no, it's exactly.

555
00:24:11,154 --> 00:24:11,874
Speaker 1: I think you're right.

556
00:24:11,954 --> 00:24:15,154
Speaker 2: You need to get a thousand raving fans basically. And

557
00:24:15,234 --> 00:24:17,594
Speaker 2: it's like, if you have a thousand raving fans, max

558
00:24:17,754 --> 00:24:21,954
Speaker 2: is not where I write, but is no put me

559
00:24:21,994 --> 00:24:25,354
Speaker 2: on the court watch miss Slay. So it's exactly that

560
00:24:25,474 --> 00:24:27,394
Speaker 2: you need to have a thousand people and if they

561
00:24:27,434 --> 00:24:29,914
Speaker 2: are so obsessed with you, then that's the one thing

562
00:24:29,914 --> 00:24:31,874
Speaker 2: that you need. That's all you need because they'll go

563
00:24:31,914 --> 00:24:33,793
Speaker 2: and tell other people as well. But the way to

564
00:24:33,794 --> 00:24:36,593
Speaker 2: get a thousand is really to like niche down. The

565
00:24:36,914 --> 00:24:39,634
Speaker 2: fifth point I want to say is be your own media.

566
00:24:40,154 --> 00:24:42,754
Speaker 2: So not just like founder content, like everyone is doing

567
00:24:42,834 --> 00:24:45,034
Speaker 2: this founder content. What I would do is like have

568
00:24:45,394 --> 00:24:48,954
Speaker 2: like infographics. I would have reports on like the things

569
00:24:48,954 --> 00:24:52,513
Speaker 2: that you're doing, like beauty reports and information. You know,

570
00:24:52,594 --> 00:24:55,434
Speaker 2: if people are on this podcast, that's amazing for their brand, right,

571
00:24:55,674 --> 00:24:57,674
Speaker 2: but if they don't have the opportunity to come on

572
00:24:57,674 --> 00:25:00,714
Speaker 2: something like this, create your own podcast, become your own media,

573
00:25:00,754 --> 00:25:02,714
Speaker 2: and like actually get the word out that you are

574
00:25:02,794 --> 00:25:05,074
Speaker 2: knowledgeable and you're like an authority.

575
00:25:04,474 --> 00:25:06,594
Speaker 3: In the space that you're in, because then I guess

576
00:25:06,594 --> 00:25:10,434
Speaker 3: you get lots of opportunities to talk about things that

577
00:25:10,434 --> 00:25:11,314
Speaker 3: you're knowledgeable.

578
00:25:11,394 --> 00:25:13,794
Speaker 1: But then therefore your product as well, correct because you

579
00:25:13,794 --> 00:25:16,234
Speaker 1: don't talk about your product at all with the media.

580
00:25:16,314 --> 00:25:19,234
Speaker 2: But if you are so knowledgeable about that industry, people like,

581
00:25:19,274 --> 00:25:22,154
Speaker 2: if she knows so much about that, that product's.

582
00:25:21,714 --> 00:25:23,034
Speaker 1: Going to be good. Okay.

583
00:25:23,074 --> 00:25:25,033
Speaker 2: And number six, and this is the fun one is

584
00:25:25,034 --> 00:25:26,954
Speaker 2: like if I'm starting a beauty brand, I want to

585
00:25:26,954 --> 00:25:29,273
Speaker 2: get in front of people in real life, like do

586
00:25:29,434 --> 00:25:31,714
Speaker 2: your activations do the little pop ups, like get in

587
00:25:31,754 --> 00:25:34,194
Speaker 2: front of people, do host a little event. You know,

588
00:25:34,234 --> 00:25:36,634
Speaker 2: when I was trying to sell my book, I didn't

589
00:25:36,634 --> 00:25:38,994
Speaker 2: know really how to get the word out there, and

590
00:25:39,074 --> 00:25:41,514
Speaker 2: so I just hosted this lunch. It cost me two

591
00:25:41,554 --> 00:25:43,474
Speaker 2: thousand dollars okay, for this lunch, I had to pay

592
00:25:43,514 --> 00:25:46,674
Speaker 2: for I think fifteen people, and I just invited like

593
00:25:46,994 --> 00:25:49,914
Speaker 2: people in business that I knew, and just by them

594
00:25:49,954 --> 00:25:52,794
Speaker 2: posting about it and then saying like I love this book.

595
00:25:52,714 --> 00:25:54,314
Speaker 1: Or like I love being at this lunch. I sold

596
00:25:54,434 --> 00:25:57,074
Speaker 1: hundreds of books that day. So, like in real life things,

597
00:25:57,074 --> 00:25:58,634
Speaker 1: there's nothing that can be because.

598
00:25:58,474 --> 00:26:00,154
Speaker 3: The thing is is that I guess even if those

599
00:26:00,194 --> 00:26:02,314
Speaker 3: people didn't have huge followings or anything, a lot of

600
00:26:02,354 --> 00:26:05,434
Speaker 3: people that do follow them would be keen business owners.

601
00:26:05,194 --> 00:26:07,554
Speaker 1: Or keen niching down exactly.

602
00:26:08,034 --> 00:26:10,634
Speaker 3: Jumping ten years into the future, looking back at the

603
00:26:10,634 --> 00:26:14,954
Speaker 3: beauty industry and our sustainability efforts today, what's one thing

604
00:26:14,994 --> 00:26:18,874
Speaker 3: that you hope the industry does less of and one

605
00:26:18,874 --> 00:26:21,634
Speaker 3: thing that you hope we start doing more of to

606
00:26:21,754 --> 00:26:24,714
Speaker 3: truly earn the title of a more sustainable future In

607
00:26:24,754 --> 00:26:26,154
Speaker 3: ten years.

608
00:26:25,954 --> 00:26:27,354
Speaker 1: I think it's exactly what you said.

609
00:26:27,474 --> 00:26:29,674
Speaker 2: One thing that everyone should be doing less of is

610
00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:33,514
Speaker 2: the over consumption and the running to the store when

611
00:26:33,594 --> 00:26:37,474
Speaker 2: there's a trending video. Okay, please like really second guess

612
00:26:38,034 --> 00:26:41,594
Speaker 2: that temptation to go and run and buy something that's trending.

613
00:26:41,834 --> 00:26:44,314
Speaker 2: I have done that one hundred times, and it's so silly.

614
00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:46,354
Speaker 2: Every single time I regret it. I'm like, it's a

615
00:26:46,394 --> 00:26:48,514
Speaker 2: nice product, but like, oh my god, I didn't need it.

616
00:26:48,514 --> 00:26:50,834
Speaker 3: It's also embarrassing. Why not embarrassing, but why do you

617
00:26:50,874 --> 00:26:52,314
Speaker 3: want the same thing that everyone else has got?

618
00:26:52,394 --> 00:26:52,874
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.

619
00:26:52,914 --> 00:26:55,554
Speaker 2: I feel like it's just a dopamine hit. We can't

620
00:26:55,554 --> 00:26:58,074
Speaker 2: help it. We've got to control it somehow. So I

621
00:26:58,114 --> 00:27:00,274
Speaker 2: would like that to be the less part of it.

622
00:27:00,474 --> 00:27:02,834
Speaker 2: The more I would say is this is going to

623
00:27:02,874 --> 00:27:07,874
Speaker 2: sound a little bit high level, but more regulation from governments.

624
00:27:08,074 --> 00:27:12,914
Speaker 2: Oh and finding companies that do the wrong thing. Just

625
00:27:13,194 --> 00:27:17,273
Speaker 2: give them a fine for doing crappy business practices, for

626
00:27:17,354 --> 00:27:20,834
Speaker 2: saying words like eco friendly without backing it up, using

627
00:27:20,874 --> 00:27:24,234
Speaker 2: materials that are awful and can't be recycled or you know,

628
00:27:24,314 --> 00:27:26,954
Speaker 2: can't it has to go into landfill, like have like

629
00:27:26,994 --> 00:27:29,354
Speaker 2: a teered system I know in the UK they've implemented that,

630
00:27:29,594 --> 00:27:33,674
Speaker 2: but just having more regulation around that exactly tax those

631
00:27:33,674 --> 00:27:36,074
Speaker 2: businesses that are doing the wrong thing, and then the

632
00:27:36,074 --> 00:27:37,674
Speaker 2: burden is not on the customer.

633
00:27:37,794 --> 00:27:40,354
Speaker 1: It's on the businesses to do the right thing. Well,

634
00:27:40,394 --> 00:27:41,114
Speaker 1: thank you so much.

635
00:27:41,234 --> 00:27:43,474
Speaker 3: I feel like I could just keep talking, but we've

636
00:27:43,474 --> 00:27:44,434
Speaker 3: already been talking for an.

637
00:27:44,394 --> 00:27:48,553
Speaker 1: Hour, so so have we. That was such a good conversation.

638
00:27:48,994 --> 00:27:51,554
Speaker 3: I just adore her, and I'm sure that everyone loved

639
00:27:51,594 --> 00:27:54,354
Speaker 3: that conversation as much as I loved having it. You

640
00:27:54,354 --> 00:27:56,634
Speaker 3: can find all of the links to Hero Packaging and

641
00:27:56,674 --> 00:27:59,273
Speaker 3: Anita's book in our show notes. Make sure to hit

642
00:27:59,314 --> 00:28:01,754
Speaker 3: subscribes you don't miss any of our next deep dives,

643
00:28:01,794 --> 00:28:03,594
Speaker 3: and thanks for tuning in to the formula

644
00:28:13,954 --> 00:28:13,994
Speaker 1: H