Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hey friends. Earlier this week,
Speaker 2: you may have listened to my conversation with Jackie O
Speaker 2: and her friend and manager Jemma O'Neil, where we spoke
Speaker 2: about Jackie's addiction, how she got into it and how
Speaker 2: she got out of it, and how a phone call
Speaker 2: to Gemma really changed her life, and how that friendship.
Speaker 1: Saved her life.
Speaker 2: I think you'll also enjoy listening to the conversation I
Speaker 2: had with jack just a few months before this, where
Speaker 2: we talked about really different things like divorce, dating, and money.
Speaker 2: It was a fascinating conversation. Have a listen, hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2: Jackie O is on the dating apps at forty eight
Speaker 2: years old and single after her second divorce. You wouldn't
Speaker 2: expect someone as famous, as successful, as rich, and as
Speaker 2: powerful as Jackie O to be on Hinge, and yet
Speaker 2: there she is. She's not uncomfortable being on a dating app.
Speaker 2: She's pretty out there, open and honest about her life.
Speaker 2: She talks about herself and her life very candidly on
Speaker 2: her radio show with Carl Sandalans every single morning and
Speaker 2: has done for decades now. But there's one thing Jackie
Speaker 2: OO doesn't want to talk about, and that's money. And
Speaker 2: yet she did with me. She walked into the Mama
Speaker 2: Mayor office, friendly, warm, she wanted to say hello to everybody,
Speaker 2: and she just seemed really at ease, comfortable in her skin.
Speaker 2: I've wanted to get Jackie on no filter for a
Speaker 2: lot of years, and for reasons which you'll understand a
Speaker 2: little bit better after you've heard our conversation. The time
Speaker 2: has never been right. She hasn't been ready to sit down.
Speaker 2: But today she is ready to sit down. She's ready
Speaker 2: to talk and nothing was off limits. Kyle and JACKIEO
Speaker 2: have extraordinary power in the Australian media landscape, particularly in
Speaker 2: the radio industry. In a medium where things are really
Speaker 2: tough and audiences are shrinking, Jackie O and Kyle have
Speaker 2: remained at the top of the tree because they're so
Speaker 2: good at what they do. And not only do they
Speaker 2: win ratings, they're kingmakers when it comes to business. The
Speaker 2: revenue and advertising that they bring in with their show
Speaker 2: can make or break a company. In fact, they've done
Speaker 2: just that currently, Even as we speak, they're negotiating a
Speaker 2: new contract and the whole industry is waiting to see
Speaker 2: how much they're worth. The answer is a lot. We
Speaker 2: spoke about how much she earns her relationship with Kyle,
Speaker 2: what it's like off air, the times that they've not
Speaker 2: been so aligned, and we spoke a lot about divorce,
Speaker 2: about the biggest mistake people make when they go into
Speaker 2: a divorce, how her second divorce was so different to
Speaker 2: her first, and how she's feeling about love at age
Speaker 2: forty eight. Here's Jackie. Oh, and I think you're going.
Speaker 1: To really love this conversation.
Speaker 2: Jack I should probably know my first question, do you not? No?
Speaker 3: I know?
Speaker 2: And I don't have notes in front of me.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: We are delayed by a week? Yeah, because can I
Speaker 2: say why you cancel last time? Yeah?
Speaker 1: My fault?
Speaker 3: Actually, So I went away to Western Australia to swim
Speaker 3: with the whale sharks and stupidly did not put sunscreen
Speaker 3: on and I broke out in I reckon about nine
Speaker 3: cold saws on my lip, and the morning I was like,
Speaker 3: oh God, do you guys film this.
Speaker 1: And put it online? And You're like yeah, and oh no,
Speaker 1: it looked ridiculous. So we postponed, it didn't we.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because radio and podcasts didn't used to
Speaker 2: be filmed, I know, and that's one of the things
Speaker 2: I loved about them, and I've heard you say recently.
Speaker 2: Now it's more like TV. Now you've got to do
Speaker 2: your hair makeup before you come in. What's that transition
Speaker 2: been like for you.
Speaker 3: It's been a slow one, which is good because it
Speaker 3: didn't happen overnight, so they'd film little bits here and there.
Speaker 1: But I agree.
Speaker 3: I used to love radio because you didn't have to
Speaker 3: worry about what you look like, and now it is
Speaker 3: pretty much doing a TV show every day. You have
Speaker 3: to be mindful that it's going to be on camera.
Speaker 3: It's going to be on all your socials and people
Speaker 3: are going to see it, and people comment, people comment,
Speaker 3: they love to have a say, and whilst that should
Speaker 3: never drive the fact that you want to be presentable,
Speaker 3: it does.
Speaker 1: In the back of your mind.
Speaker 3: You're just like, I better do my hair today, Like
Speaker 3: I look like a wreck people are going to see now.
Speaker 3: So it's changed so much, but it's been a really
Speaker 3: gradual progression over the years, with radio being an anonymous
Speaker 3: to now completely front and center.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how has that changed your getting ready routine in
Speaker 2: the morning. I mean, I know, if I's obsessed with
Speaker 2: asking breakfast TV and breakfast radio presenters what time you
Speaker 2: get off and what your routine's.
Speaker 1: Like, I knows the number one question.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be Betty basic. So let's get that
Speaker 2: out of the way.
Speaker 3: So four AM, and the routine is very quick. Actually
Speaker 3: it's usually half an hour max, I'd say, just to
Speaker 3: kind of blow dry their hair real quick and put
Speaker 3: some makeup on, So it's not too bad.
Speaker 1: I guess before it was maybe five five ams, so.
Speaker 2: It's added an extra hour.
Speaker 3: Well, I've also moved further away, so that doesn't help.
Speaker 3: So we've stuck on a little bit of time needed.
Speaker 3: So the alarm, unfortunately, is now going off with four.
Speaker 2: Why do you have to drive to the studio? Why
Speaker 2: can't you do it from home?
Speaker 3: You can, and it's there ready to go in the bedroom.
Speaker 3: I've got a little office to the side. But you
Speaker 3: just don't feed off the energy of everyone around you
Speaker 3: in our office. We just have a great team and
Speaker 3: it's very different, really feel that kind of disconnect when
Speaker 3: you're at home. So Kyle and I hate doing it
Speaker 3: from home. But if we have to, we will. If
Speaker 3: I've slept in or he's sick, we can do that,
Speaker 3: but we would much rather not.
Speaker 2: You've had an amazing year, You've launched a whole new business.
Speaker 2: How are preparations going for Gwyneth Riving?
Speaker 1: Well, they're good.
Speaker 3: Actually, we're really sort of deep diving and in the process.
Speaker 3: Actually this weekend, jem and my bestie and I are
Speaker 3: going all in and really nutting out how we want
Speaker 3: it to kind of be formatted and where we want
Speaker 3: to go with it. I mean, we know we want
Speaker 3: to touch on a lot of things because she's such
Speaker 3: an interesting woman. She's had this incredible career in Hollywood,
Speaker 3: and she's grown up in Hollywood. She's had very high
Speaker 3: profile romances and marriages, and then she's built this empire
Speaker 3: of Goop, which is so successful. And I love that
Speaker 3: she has over the years stayed really true to her brand,
Speaker 3: despite the fact that she's copped a lot of flak
Speaker 3: for that. But she's always known what her brand is
Speaker 3: and I think there's something to learn from that. So,
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of things that I would
Speaker 3: want to touch on with Gwyneth, and I don't know
Speaker 3: where to start, but yeah, we're making that start this weekend.
Speaker 2: What's it like dealing with someone who is at that
Speaker 2: level of fame in terms of the people around her,
Speaker 2: what's required.
Speaker 3: It's actually been so easy with Gwenneth. We asked her
Speaker 3: what her rider was and or we got back was
Speaker 3: bottled water.
Speaker 1: That was it? Nothing else? Does she want nothing?
Speaker 3: I know, it's almost yeah. I think the story is
Speaker 3: that there is nothing. But I was surprised. She's very
Speaker 3: low maintenance. She is really keen to wear an Australian
Speaker 3: designer on stage, and there's really been not much else.
Speaker 3: Everything's been smooth sailing with her and her people, which
Speaker 3: is I mean for our first one, we got lucky.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: I'm sure down the track we'll have some bumps along
Speaker 3: the road, but this one's been very very easy.
Speaker 2: Why start a business, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think for me it's something I've always had in
Speaker 3: the back of my mind that I don't just want
Speaker 3: to always have only radio. Radio can't be the only
Speaker 3: thing that defines me because one day that's going to end,
Speaker 3: and who am I. I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: struggle with their identity when they've had a very long
Speaker 3: lasting career that they love and that they're passionate about.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like sports people when their rugby
Speaker 3: career is over or swimming career at the end of it,
Speaker 3: when they don't have another passion or another avenue to explore,
Speaker 3: they're lost. And I never want to be in that situation.
Speaker 3: So I think for me, it's always there. I've always
Speaker 3: wanted to do it. I just haven't known exactly what
Speaker 3: I want to do, and I didn't want to do
Speaker 3: something just for the sake of it.
Speaker 1: It had to be the right thing.
Speaker 3: And I think working with my best friend, who I've
Speaker 3: worked with before, so I know.
Speaker 1: We work really well together, this just seemed perfect.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I've been thinking about you and partnerships
Speaker 2: because you're obviously so inextricably linked with Kyle and now Gemma,
Speaker 2: and I thought that's interesting that when you chose to
Speaker 2: do your own thing away from Kyle and Jackie oh Brand,
Speaker 2: you chose to do it with someone else again, not
Speaker 2: by yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: No, with besties, because it's the two of them.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm talking now to my psychologists. Welcome,
Speaker 3: I bet you have some good insight on that too.
Speaker 1: What that says? Do you know that's true?
Speaker 3: And if I'm going to be really honest with you,
Speaker 3: it would be that I don't have the confidence to
Speaker 3: do it on my own. And that might be because
Speaker 3: I've spent years and years bouncing off someone and so
Speaker 3: it's all I know. So for me to go out
Speaker 3: completely on my own, Look, could I put this together?
Speaker 3: Probably not.
Speaker 1: I don't have.
Speaker 2: The've been hard to call it besties if it was.
Speaker 3: Just true, a bit awkward, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it's just to me. I like collaborating with people.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I would even enjoy doing it
Speaker 3: my own. I think I'd be very stressed doing it
Speaker 3: on my own. And could I do it on my own?
Speaker 3: I don't think I could. Not this kind of business.
Speaker 3: Jemma's got so much skill in the business, back end.
Speaker 1: Part of it. She studied it. She's got no degrees,
Speaker 1: so she.
Speaker 3: Understands that the numbers, and I've never had to deal
Speaker 3: with that in my life. I mean, I finished school
Speaker 3: in year ten and went to Tafe to do a
Speaker 3: secretarial course and that's it for me.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: So all I've known really is talking on the radio.
Speaker 3: So I don't claim to kind of know about business,
Speaker 3: and I don't know that I would want to do
Speaker 3: something like that on my own. That just seems a
Speaker 3: bit overwhelming, to be honest. So I think what works
Speaker 3: with Gemma and I. She's got that beack end and
Speaker 3: then I've got the other side that I can bring
Speaker 3: to the table, and the two work really well together.
Speaker 2: What's the difference between being in a business partnership with
Speaker 2: a guy and a girl? For you, what have you noticed?
Speaker 1: I think with Gemma there's more communication.
Speaker 3: So every step of the way, when a little problem arises,
Speaker 3: it's dealt with immediately, as opposed to it building and
Speaker 3: building and it becoming an issue. I would say that
Speaker 3: Kyle and I don't let it become a huge issue,
Speaker 3: but we certainly aren't dealing with it as it happens.
Speaker 3: And I think there's that really honest communication between Gemma
Speaker 3: and I, as opposed to maybe sometimes with Kyle and
Speaker 3: I I will sweep that one under the rug, won't
Speaker 3: address it. Everything gets addressed because you know, we love
Speaker 3: to communicate more than men.
Speaker 2: A lot of famous on air partnerships, either in TV
Speaker 2: or in radio aren't necessarily off screen or off air
Speaker 2: what they are on air in terms of their dynamic
Speaker 2: or in terms of the closeness. How has that evolved
Speaker 2: with you and Kyle over the years. I'm really curious
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 3: Well, there is a definite respect, always there and has
Speaker 3: been regardless of the different parts we've gone on. Because
Speaker 3: it's been what twenty three years now working together. Wow,
Speaker 3: it's a long friendship.
Speaker 2: That's longer than most marriages.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is just longer than any marriage I've had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we connected very quickly. I think after a
Speaker 3: year we really bonded. We went away to Spain for
Speaker 3: a work trip and got to know each other really well.
Speaker 1: That sounds like we slept together. We didn't.
Speaker 2: Was that chemistry ever there? Not chemistry that way, But
Speaker 2: you know in male female relationships, yeah, it's usually there.
Speaker 2: Even if it's not there, it's there, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know if it was with Carl and I.
Speaker 3: We had the chemistry of like a best friend would,
Speaker 3: But I don't think there's ever been any sexual chemistry.
Speaker 2: Not from you. What about from him?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know you well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's joking about it or not. I mean,
Speaker 1: he says that obviously a lot on air, So he's
Speaker 1: still say.
Speaker 2: And do you feel like he's like a brother, Like
Speaker 2: is that your feeling towards him, Like he wouldn't care
Speaker 2: if you farted in front of him or yeah, you brother,
Speaker 2: You're never try to know exactly.
Speaker 3: He's like my big brother, the protector. He's very protective
Speaker 3: of me extremely. How does that manifest, particularly now that
Speaker 3: I'm single? It manifestsn't that way like he's got big
Speaker 3: brother dad. Absolutely, it's hard to get his tick of approval.
Speaker 3: Put it that way. Yeah, yeah, really hard. So he's
Speaker 3: funny who is okay with and who is not? But
Speaker 3: you know, I interrupted you. You said you guys went
Speaker 3: away and there was no sex, but you had X
Speaker 3: and then we bonded and then we were so close.
Speaker 3: When he was with Tamara, we were Lee and I. Yes,
Speaker 3: so his first wife Tamara and then Lee and I
Speaker 3: as a foursome. We would hang out all the time
Speaker 3: and they lived just around the corner and we would
Speaker 3: go every Saturday night to their house and you know,
Speaker 3: drink and dance and just a couple of friends. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we were a couple of friends, and then when Tamora
Speaker 3: and Kyle split up. Kyle, I don't want to speak
Speaker 3: on his path, but he coped with that breakup by
Speaker 3: going down a completely different path, which he has said
Speaker 3: before involved a lot of partying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is when.
Speaker 3: It was probably around the time he was about thirty nine,
Speaker 3: thirty eight, thirty nine, and he just started to hang
Speaker 3: out in the Cross all the time, and then he
Speaker 3: was renting this house that just was party after party
Speaker 3: after party. I can't remember with the timeline, but it
Speaker 3: was sort of not long after that that I was
Speaker 3: also trying to feel pregnant, and we just went our
Speaker 3: separate ways in terms of the closeness that we had,
Speaker 3: but it was always there. It's never gone away. Our
Speaker 3: working relationship and how much we respect each other and
Speaker 3: get on, we always get on, but we just weren't
Speaker 3: socializing outside of work, and that remained that way for
Speaker 3: a really long time until Kyle.
Speaker 1: And Teague and got together. And then now we started
Speaker 1: to kind of be.
Speaker 2: A couple of friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did you guys have judgment for each other's lives back then?
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally we did. Yes.
Speaker 3: He thought I was so boring and didn't want to
Speaker 3: know anything about me because I was now a mum.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what's happened to you?
Speaker 3: Why are you doing all of this? This isn't you
Speaker 3: Because Kyle was a real homebody. He was a guy
Speaker 3: from Brisbane who didn't party. He came straight here into
Speaker 3: a relationship with Tomorrow and he was just not that
Speaker 3: kind of guy, and so that sort of shocked me.
Speaker 3: You know, what he was doing. It was almost like
Speaker 3: this kind of rebellious period. So yeah, we totally had
Speaker 3: judgment for each other's life.
Speaker 2: And were you worried about his health? He was making
Speaker 2: some pretty dangerous choices and he wasn't a young chicken anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was, you know, in his forties and he was
Speaker 2: not looking well and he was having a lot of
Speaker 2: time off for ye blood pressure and various things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was.
Speaker 3: He was having a lot of time off, And yeah,
Speaker 3: of course I was worried about his health, you know,
Speaker 3: because he's someone who who has picked up those habits
Speaker 3: at the time later on in life, which is kind
Speaker 3: of can be scary for men that are hitting their
Speaker 3: forties and suddenly they start doing that.
Speaker 1: When their body isn't used to it.
Speaker 3: So I was worried, but you can't say anything, can you, Like,
Speaker 3: I mean, you can say something, but they don't listen
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 2: No, especially if they think that you're just.
Speaker 1: Boring one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just the boring mum who's you know, not
Speaker 3: wanting him to have any fun.
Speaker 2: There's friend concerned, but then there was also I imagine
Speaker 2: there would have also been business concern, because it's like, dude,
Speaker 2: if you can't show up to work every day, or
Speaker 2: if you're hungover or tired or calling him sick, that
Speaker 2: impacts on you. Yeah, I mean, I'm the quality.
Speaker 1: Of the show or does it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It does? It definitely does. I mean there's no question
Speaker 3: we work best when we're together.
Speaker 1: I guess I just took it for what it was.
Speaker 3: I wasn't too concerned that, oh god, he's going to
Speaker 3: die and then there's going to be no show.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking like that.
Speaker 3: I think I was just taking it day to day,
Speaker 3: and I hate it when he's not there. Obviously, it
Speaker 3: makes the workload a trillion times harder. Why you're taking
Speaker 3: on everything yourself, so when you're doing it on air
Speaker 3: with someone else, you have that time to when the
Speaker 3: other person's talking, you have your time to catch up
Speaker 3: like a little bit in your mind. And especially when
Speaker 3: you're interviewing or anything. You're just so used to having
Speaker 3: like a little window of ten seconds to catch your breath.
Speaker 3: But when you're doing it on your own, it's a
Speaker 3: brain drain, basically.
Speaker 2: I know that when you've been away, like when you
Speaker 2: had time off, when you had your long COVID he
Speaker 2: had guest co hosts. If he calls in sick, does
Speaker 2: someone step in for him?
Speaker 3: Or you have to carry it theTimes we might just
Speaker 3: these days get a producer to just bounce off.
Speaker 1: We used to try and scramble around for people.
Speaker 3: We had people like Jewels, lun Bo Ryan with a
Speaker 3: specific phone. We would buy them and we would just
Speaker 3: say keep it on your bedside table, always on.
Speaker 1: No one will ever call it unless Kyle sick.
Speaker 3: And sometimes they didn't answer it because you know, it
Speaker 3: could be months that would go by and they'd think, oh,
Speaker 3: no one's going to call on the day we call,
Speaker 3: they don't have it. So you'd be scrambling at four
Speaker 3: am to find someone. You'd be calling ev everyone and
Speaker 3: there's just no one around. And I remember getting calls
Speaker 3: on the way into work saying what about so and so?
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking, oh god, this, I hate this.
Speaker 3: You know, they were my worst so and now we
Speaker 3: just do a producer and it's just easier that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's there must be so much. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know, hosting a podcast, the unspoken things that go
Speaker 2: between co hosts that have been working together for a
Speaker 2: long time, I guess, like any relationship. But what are
Speaker 2: the some of the things that you don't realize, the
Speaker 2: unspoken language between you and Kyle and till he's not
Speaker 2: there that other people might not know, as in like
Speaker 2: like the way you'll sort of save each other, or
Speaker 2: if you're looking at your phone, then he'll go, all right,
Speaker 2: she's distracted. Oh yes, oh, you know, covering for each other,
Speaker 2: like just you've got each other's backs in studio, on air.
Speaker 2: What are some of those?
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean there's many times where Carl might turn off
Speaker 3: his microphone and start having a conversation with one of
Speaker 3: the producers. No one will know that, but you just
Speaker 3: keep going, keep going. He might see that I don't
Speaker 3: have a question next, and so he knows. I don't
Speaker 3: even have to give him a look. He just knows
Speaker 3: when I have a question when I don't. It's just
Speaker 3: those little cues you pick up from working with someone
Speaker 3: for that long. There might be something that he even
Speaker 3: says on air where I give him just that little,
Speaker 3: kind of tiny look and he goes, oh shit, okay,
Speaker 3: I won't keep pushing that, And I'm okay for him
Speaker 3: to push stuff most of the time.
Speaker 1: But every now and again, all.
Speaker 3: You have to do is just give them a very
Speaker 3: slight look that no one else would pick up on
Speaker 3: except for them.
Speaker 2: My husband and I used to sometimes give it to
Speaker 2: the looks across the board table, and then one time
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, other people can see the
Speaker 2: expression on your face, right, And so you guys used
Speaker 2: to be able to do that more than I imagine
Speaker 2: you can now because it's being videoed. Yeah, so if
Speaker 2: you're like going oh yeah, quiet or.
Speaker 3: Wind up like doing the covery, one can see everyone
Speaker 3: can see it. To be honest, I think most of
Speaker 3: those times all they hopefully don't include. Hopefully we've got
Speaker 3: a good editor that cuts those things out. I don't
Speaker 3: see how our videos a half the time, So who
Speaker 3: knows what.
Speaker 2: Different roles do you guys play in the behind the
Speaker 2: scenes of the show, because there's a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: commentary about the roles that you play on the show,
Speaker 2: and I think it's often falsely said that he dominates
Speaker 2: or that you somehow enable him. How do you feel
Speaker 2: about that when people think that.
Speaker 3: When it comes to the show, there's things that people
Speaker 3: would listen to and think, why didn't she pull him
Speaker 3: up on that?
Speaker 1: And I can pull him up on that.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I also can see it for what it is,
Speaker 3: which is Kyle is kidding. And I don't like being
Speaker 3: a handbreak in life on everything. I do believe our
Speaker 3: listeners get it, and I think the ones that might
Speaker 3: tune in for the first time here and there don't.
Speaker 3: So when he says something it is a joke. Most
Speaker 3: people know him. For the two percent that are listening
Speaker 3: that don't understand Kyle's humor, then I'm not going to
Speaker 3: be the handbreak for just that two percent because hopefully
Speaker 3: everyone gets it that you know, it's very tongue in cheek. Yes,
Speaker 3: he says things that are and it shits me sometimes,
Speaker 3: and when it shits me, I will say it. But
Speaker 3: if it's not shitting me and I can see the
Speaker 3: humor in it, then I'm not going to pretend to
Speaker 3: be outraged.
Speaker 1: I just I don't like that style either.
Speaker 3: I just have to stay true to if I find
Speaker 3: it offensive, I will say something If I don't, and
Speaker 3: I think it's.
Speaker 1: Funny because I kind of love politically and correct humor.
Speaker 3: I still do to this day, and there's certain things
Speaker 3: that cross a line, and we're more sensitive to particular topics,
Speaker 3: which we should be, but I can also appreciate inappropriateness
Speaker 3: and personally if I find it funny.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend I don't.
Speaker 2: Have you ever felt resentful of people trying to push
Speaker 2: you into being the police and being his mum? Like
Speaker 2: you do that sometimes, but you don't always not consistent,
Speaker 2: but which means it's genuine. But so have you ever
Speaker 2: had to say to him, Hey, it's not fair that
Speaker 2: you always get to say the interesting, outrageous things and
Speaker 2: I've got to go come on, Kyle, Yeah, yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: how do you make sure that dynamic doesn't get too entrenched?
Speaker 3: I think there are certain times when Kyle he's thinking
Speaker 3: something off the air, and I know he's saying it
Speaker 3: to kind of gauge what my reaction is to it,
Speaker 3: and so there are many times off air that I
Speaker 3: say no, no, no, you're not going on air and
Speaker 3: saying that, so I am a lot more of a
Speaker 3: handbrake off the air because I don't want to stop.
Speaker 1: Down and ruin the flow of the show on air.
Speaker 3: So I think I subconsciously knows when it might be
Speaker 3: too far, which is why he runs have passed me
Speaker 3: in a way off the air. But in terms of
Speaker 3: playing that role, no, I've never felt pressured to do that,
Speaker 3: not from anyone I work with, maybe the audience, or
Speaker 3: maybe when I've been interviewed by someone. I've been asked
Speaker 3: that many times, but I don't listen to the noise
Speaker 3: outside of what's happening in that studio and what I
Speaker 3: feel at that moment.
Speaker 2: Up next, Jackie talks pretty candidly about divorce, how it
Speaker 2: was so different for her second time, the things no
Speaker 2: one can warn you about, the things she got most wrong,
Speaker 2: and how she navigates co parenting with a man she's
Speaker 2: no longer married. To stay with me, tell me about
Speaker 2: being divorced twice. Divorce, babe, divorce, How is it different
Speaker 2: being divorced the second time to being divorced the first time?
Speaker 3: So so different, very different with Phil. That felt like
Speaker 3: I guess I was so young when we were together nineteen.
Speaker 3: I was married at nineteen. Wow ya why I know?
Speaker 3: So I met him at eighteen and we were married
Speaker 3: by nineteen.
Speaker 2: But I don't understand why I.
Speaker 1: Tend to be an all in kind of person.
Speaker 3: I love love, and I think when I meet someone
Speaker 3: a lot of the time I tend to go, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a romantic and honestly like, Phil and
Speaker 3: I were such a great match in many ways. But
Speaker 3: the unfortunate thing with that was that he was twenty
Speaker 3: nine going on thirty and I was eighteen going on nineteen,
Speaker 3: and as a woman, you changed so much in those years.
Speaker 3: So I think the first marriage to Phil was beautiful
Speaker 3: and we worked well together.
Speaker 1: We got on so well, everything was great.
Speaker 2: He wasn't your boss, was he?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No? You together?
Speaker 3: We ended up working together in I followed him around.
Speaker 3: We went from the Gold Coast to Canberra, and then
Speaker 3: he got another job in Adelaide.
Speaker 2: He was an on air present He was an.
Speaker 3: Presenter doing the Hot thirty and I was just helping
Speaker 3: out one night in Adelaide and it all started from there.
Speaker 1: He used to call me at home.
Speaker 3: I'd come home from I was doing temping work and
Speaker 3: he used to call me, going, I need you to
Speaker 3: pretend to be a caller on air because we don't
Speaker 3: have any callers coming through.
Speaker 1: And I used to just be terrified and I'd never
Speaker 1: get it right.
Speaker 3: And he'd always made me go, no, yeah, I have
Speaker 3: to do it again and this time say this, and
Speaker 3: I hated it.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, who would do radio? This sucks?
Speaker 3: And then it happened that I was filling in for
Speaker 3: someone on the phones one night. But that marriage was
Speaker 3: really beautiful. But it was like a high school romance.
Speaker 3: And so when that ended, as painful as it was,
Speaker 3: it's very different to the marriage that ends when you
Speaker 3: have children.
Speaker 2: How long were you in Fielm married for We were.
Speaker 3: Married, So I was married from nineteen through to twenty four.
Speaker 2: That's quite a long time for a start of marriage.
Speaker 1: For a start of marriage, yeah, I know, but.
Speaker 2: You would have been a very different person at twenty four.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: I was very different.
Speaker 2: Was it a difficult decision to end?
Speaker 1: One hundred percent?
Speaker 3: Extremely You don't just wake up one day and go, Leah,
Speaker 3: I know this isn't working. It's something that you think
Speaker 3: about and you struggle with massively internally, and was.
Speaker 2: It because the next logical phase was for you to
Speaker 2: have kids with him?
Speaker 1: You know, we weren't even talking about it that much.
Speaker 3: Really, I don't even know that we ever had a
Speaker 3: serious conversation, which is why I feel like I look
Speaker 3: back on that and it was very much like this
Speaker 3: sort of high school sweetheart, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just felt so young and innocent.
Speaker 2: Did you feel stigma of being divorced at twenty four?
Speaker 3: I don't really care about stuff like that. I don't
Speaker 3: care what people think or their judgment. I just think
Speaker 3: you have to live the life that's true for you
Speaker 3: and what's going to make you happy. So I definitely
Speaker 3: had family at the time who were really disconnected from
Speaker 3: me completely because they thought I was making a mistake.
Speaker 3: They wouldn't come to the wedding, so you know, there
Speaker 3: was a bit of pushback there.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: Were those people happy when the marriage ended or they
Speaker 2: got used to the idea by then?
Speaker 1: No, they reached back out once the marriage had ended.
Speaker 3: But again, it was just you know, I kind of
Speaker 3: went from Phil to Lee really quickly. So what was
Speaker 3: the gap? It would have been maybe eight months. Oh wow, Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: see what I mean, girl, I hear?
Speaker 1: Which is my flaw? Ye did meet?
Speaker 3: It's something I've learned now. I met Lee when I
Speaker 3: was out. We were at the Blue Room. Do you
Speaker 3: remember the Blue Room on Street?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I really do.
Speaker 3: And I had just started pop stars. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 3: a bar that was, yeah, the place to be at
Speaker 3: the time. And he was British, not here for long,
Speaker 3: and he had seen me on TV and he's too
Speaker 3: nervous to come over, so he sent his friend over
Speaker 3: to buy me a drink. And that was kind of
Speaker 3: how we met. And I thought it was gorgeous obviously.
Speaker 2: And eight months m you single? Fa.
Speaker 3: I had a little fling in there with a mechanic
Speaker 3: that lasted for late two or three months and then
Speaker 3: yeah it was Lee.
Speaker 2: So you seem to be well for that period of
Speaker 2: your life. You were certainly a monogamous girl like to
Speaker 2: be in relationships. Yeah, yeah, not a single creature.
Speaker 1: Definitely not.
Speaker 3: I was that girl that was desperate for another relationship
Speaker 3: not long after. Yeah, It's taken me a bit of
Speaker 3: work to get to this point now where I'm not
Speaker 3: like that anymore.
Speaker 1: But I have always been like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, how did you get to the point where
Speaker 2: you didn't just want to jump when things ended with Lee,
Speaker 2: that you didn't just want to jump back in.
Speaker 3: I think once the Lee marriage ended, because I had Kitty,
Speaker 3: there was so much more to it than just me
Speaker 3: jumping into a new relationship. There's a lot of pain
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of healing you have to do
Speaker 3: after that kind of thing, and I really wanted to
Speaker 3: focus on Kitty, really really focus on that, because those
Speaker 3: years for her were really important. I mean, she was
Speaker 3: around nine, and from nine to twelve, it's a lot
Speaker 3: when your parents are divorcing, So I really wanted to
Speaker 3: give her all of my time and not bring someone
Speaker 3: new into her life very quickly. Not that I think
Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but I just really
Speaker 3: wanted to make sure she could get through that in
Speaker 3: a stable environment, because it's such a shock for kids
Speaker 3: to go through seeing their parents' divorce.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad I did that.
Speaker 3: And then obviously I wasn't feeling great at the time anyway,
Speaker 3: and as you know, got into a little bit of
Speaker 3: a rut. And then once I've been out of that,
Speaker 3: I kind of feel now in a really good place
Speaker 3: to start dating in a really healthy way too.
Speaker 2: You said divorce after a child is very different to
Speaker 2: divorce before you have kids, And I've also heard you
Speaker 2: say that people think that divorce will just be a
Speaker 2: few bad months or ah a year.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the.
Speaker 2: Time frame of divorce in the different phases.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked that, because I have a
Speaker 3: lot of friends who are going through that and you
Speaker 3: don't want to scare them completely. But it is not
Speaker 3: quick by any means. So the initial period might feel
Speaker 3: depending on the circumstances. Of course, you might feel some
Speaker 3: sort of relief in there and you think, Okay, this
Speaker 3: decision's now been made and we're kind of going our
Speaker 3: separate ways.
Speaker 1: Isn't this great?
Speaker 3: And then the reality hits and then you have to
Speaker 3: start dealing with separating of assets and child custody And
Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter how great your relationship is. That
Speaker 3: part is so painful and so triggering for everyone I
Speaker 3: know who's been.
Speaker 2: Through it in what ways Without wanting to probe what
Speaker 2: parts of that are triggering, what parts of that are painful.
Speaker 3: The worst comes out in people, and when lawyers are involved,
Speaker 3: so you might say certain things within your relationship if
Speaker 3: we ever split up, I would never do this, I
Speaker 3: would never ask for this. And then suddenly you're alone
Speaker 3: with your lawyer, and your lawyer's going you have to
Speaker 3: ask for this, and so you're hit with those kind
Speaker 3: of demands and then you feel betrayed and that is
Speaker 3: incredibly triggering, and you think.
Speaker 1: How could they do this, Why do they want this?
Speaker 1: Or why does she want this?
Speaker 3: So a lot of raw nerves hit during that process,
Speaker 3: because I can understand it. People are like, this is final,
Speaker 3: this is the last chance of whatever it is that
Speaker 3: each party wants. But it does hurt, and that part
Speaker 3: is I've noticed with my friends and myself, is the
Speaker 3: most difficult part.
Speaker 1: And you know that.
Speaker 2: I mean the negotiating.
Speaker 3: I think the negotiating and working through all that. Then
Speaker 3: once you're through that, it calms down, and I tell
Speaker 3: everyone that it does.
Speaker 1: Just let it go. You've got to let it go.
Speaker 1: Once that decision has been made, let it go.
Speaker 3: You can't harbor any kind of resentment because at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, you're going to be co parenting
Speaker 3: and you want to keep that really coe pathetic. So
Speaker 3: once you let that go, then the healing starts, and
Speaker 3: that takes another couple of years. So I would say
Speaker 3: to anyone going through this, it's a three year process.
Speaker 1: Easy.
Speaker 2: What about the custody part, because no parent goes into
Speaker 2: having a child thinking I'm going to see this child
Speaker 2: part time or half the time or two days a week. Yeah,
Speaker 2: how did you manage the grief of that when you
Speaker 2: had to navigate it?
Speaker 3: You know, in a way, I tried to look at
Speaker 3: the bright side of that, which is that when you're
Speaker 3: at home twenty four to seven with your children or
Speaker 3: child in my case, a lot of the time, you
Speaker 3: can be distracted, you can be impatient, you can be
Speaker 3: on your phone.
Speaker 1: And I found that by having.
Speaker 3: Kitty fifty percent of the time, I was a better
Speaker 3: mother than I was having her one hundred percent of
Speaker 3: the time because I appreciated and value to her presence
Speaker 3: so much. So I made that count and I think
Speaker 3: in a way it was.
Speaker 1: Actually a good thing. I just tried to.
Speaker 3: Look at it from a positive point of view. But
Speaker 3: it was difficult on the days that I didn't have her.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie those days you kind of suddenly
Speaker 3: left on your own, and I think in those moments
Speaker 3: you can start drinking a little more. You know, you
Speaker 3: don't have any responsibilities, you're a bit lost, and you
Speaker 3: either embrace those moments by doing self care, maybe catching
Speaker 3: up with friends, or you can go the other way
Speaker 3: and you sit at home alone and then you have
Speaker 3: a drink and you know, you watch TV. And unfortunately
Speaker 3: I kind of went that way instead of the healthier way,
Speaker 3: and I think that's kind of what sort of started
Speaker 3: to just everything became really unhealthy.
Speaker 1: So I had these two lives.
Speaker 3: I was living like the good mom, the one that
Speaker 3: was present and happy and taking her out and doing things,
Speaker 3: and then there was the other side that was a
Speaker 3: little bit dark and a little bit lonely.
Speaker 2: I remember my husband and Nice put up when our
Speaker 2: son was about two or three for a few years,
Speaker 2: and I remember weekends that I didn't have him were
Speaker 2: weird because it wasn't like being away from your child.
Speaker 2: If you were on holidays or had to travel for work,
Speaker 2: that's very different. But when you are in your house
Speaker 2: and in your city without your child, it just felt odd.
Speaker 2: It's like a deep sorrow and sadness that I had
Speaker 2: to get used to in past, but it's like I'm
Speaker 2: a mother who's not with her child. It felt, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was weird. It's really really difficult to get cast is.
Speaker 3: Yes, it does pass, you do become comfortable with it
Speaker 3: and accepting of it. Kitty said to me the other day,
Speaker 3: she said, I'm so glad you and Dad aren't together.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, why why is that? Because
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like we were fighting a load
Speaker 3: in front of her or anything.
Speaker 1: She just said, I just get the best of both worlds.
Speaker 3: I get all of your time when I'm with you,
Speaker 3: and then I get all of Dad's time. And I
Speaker 3: have two bedrooms and I have two of this, and
Speaker 3: you know, I have these two great lives almost And
Speaker 3: she thankfully came out the other side really kind of
Speaker 3: well adjusted and got through it okay. But it was
Speaker 3: really hard during those times, like adjusting to the alone
Speaker 3: time and not being there because you're right, it's so different.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like when you have that temporary breakup
Speaker 3: with a boyfriend and they're not the on a Saturday night,
Speaker 3: you feel so depressed, but then if they've gone away
Speaker 3: with the boys for a week, you're like, oh, brilliant,
Speaker 3: I've got all this alone time. You know, it's just
Speaker 3: a heaviness that sort of sits there with you.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're a control freak. Are you
Speaker 2: a control freeking?
Speaker 1: No? Not at all.
Speaker 2: Okay, So who carried you? Know? When you were with Lee?
Speaker 2: Who carried like most of the mental load? Because in
Speaker 2: my marriage it's for all the house stuff and finances
Speaker 2: and everything. It's my husband for the emotional state of
Speaker 2: the kids. It's kind of me. But what was the
Speaker 2: breakdown like in your marriage and when it ended, what
Speaker 2: did you have to pick up in terms of mental load?
Speaker 3: I would say that in terms of the household running
Speaker 3: of the household stuff was me and I would say
Speaker 3: that we were probably an equal mix with the emotional load.
Speaker 3: I mean, Lee is the most wonderful dad. He really
Speaker 3: is very hands on and present. And you know, I'm
Speaker 3: so lucky that I married somebody like that and went
Speaker 3: through a divorce with somebody like that, because he never
Speaker 3: tried to make it difficult for me.
Speaker 1: He was never spiteful. I was never spiteful.
Speaker 3: I just watch other people go through a bitter divorce
Speaker 3: and oh my god, it makes it that much harder.
Speaker 2: Like life is.
Speaker 3: Incredibly difficult when you're involved in that kind of toxic relationship.
Speaker 2: When kids are weaponized in custody.
Speaker 1: That was never the case with us.
Speaker 2: And so what did you have to learn to do
Speaker 2: that you didn't do before?
Speaker 1: I just had to call a handyman. What did I
Speaker 1: have to do? What else did I have to do?
Speaker 3: I didn't feel that there was that much of a change,
Speaker 3: to be honest, in that period. It was more just
Speaker 3: the little things, you know, those little things where you go, hey,
Speaker 3: can you.
Speaker 1: Deal with this?
Speaker 3: Even just little decisions you make, Like I remember one
Speaker 3: of the first nights I was in that Bondaie apartment
Speaker 3: that I was renting and Kitty was there and there
Speaker 3: was a huge humpsman in the house. Now, if Lee
Speaker 3: were there, I would just spray the shit out of
Speaker 3: that thing until it was white and it's done. But
Speaker 3: for some reason, because it was just me on my
Speaker 3: own and Kiddy, I had this conscience of I can't
Speaker 3: do that to a spider. This poor thing is living
Speaker 3: its life and what's it done wrong? And I just
Speaker 3: had this mental shift of like, no, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to do that. So I got a cup and a
Speaker 3: piece of paper and I actually did it. I did it,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't too afraid because I think something kicks in.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, no, I have to take care of
Speaker 3: this situation because it's just.
Speaker 1: Me now on my own.
Speaker 3: And that's probably a bad analogy, but I just remember
Speaker 3: thinking I would never have done this if I was
Speaker 3: at home with they would have said, either you get
Speaker 3: rid of it or I'm going to spray it.
Speaker 1: I think you just have to kick into gear where
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: It's just you can't always rely on somebody else in
Speaker 3: the house that's going to take care of things.
Speaker 1: You're the adult. You're the one and only adult.
Speaker 2: Of the adult.
Speaker 1: It's so true. No one to delegate, No, no one
Speaker 1: to delegate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, co parenting can be hard, even when you're living
Speaker 2: in the same house and you're married. Not everyone has
Speaker 2: the same views on how to parent or ideas around
Speaker 2: boundary or screen time. How have you navigated it and
Speaker 2: what have you learned about co parenting after divorce?
Speaker 1: The communication has to be there, but we're not going
Speaker 1: to lie.
Speaker 3: It's very, very difficult to be consistent when there are
Speaker 3: two different households. So Whilstly and I might agree that okay,
Speaker 3: we're not happy that she's done this, so we've both
Speaker 3: agreed now on the phone that there's going to be
Speaker 3: only an hour of screen time max. And then then
Speaker 3: you find out each one of us hasn't done that.
Speaker 3: We've both relaxed because we think the other ones probably
Speaker 3: relaxed it too, And no one wants to be.
Speaker 1: The bad parent.
Speaker 3: So it's just about getting on the same page and
Speaker 3: sticking to it. And that's actually really hard to do
Speaker 3: when you're not living in the same house because you
Speaker 3: don't actually know what's going on over there and he
Speaker 3: doesn't know what's going on over here.
Speaker 2: So and kids are smart.
Speaker 3: They're smart, you know, they're very smart, especially when it
Speaker 3: comes to screen time.
Speaker 1: They're driving force. So yes, I will admit that things
Speaker 1: like that can be tricky.
Speaker 2: I remember when you signed up with weight Watchers and
Speaker 2: there was lots of people that were like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: so bad, and why is she losing weight? And bad
Speaker 2: role model and all of those things. And I remember
Speaker 2: reaching out to you and saying, I hope you're doing okay,
Speaker 2: Like you should be able to do whatever you want
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Thank you, And I appreciated that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if a woman wants to lose weight, she should
Speaker 2: be allowed to lose weight. Yeah, once you sign a
Speaker 2: contract like that and you're contractually obliged to talk about
Speaker 2: your weight, and then you decide to end that contract.
Speaker 2: How do you redraw the boundaries about what you are
Speaker 2: prepared to talk about in public.
Speaker 3: The thing is is, I didn't mind talking about my
Speaker 3: weight loss over that journey, but I think when the
Speaker 3: weight loss became quick and this year, you noticed a
Speaker 3: huge difference from last year to this year, and I
Speaker 3: think there became this real interest.
Speaker 1: They were obsessed.
Speaker 3: The media is all they talked about it, and I
Speaker 3: don't think I was prepared for that side of it.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't bother me that much, honestly, it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think other people are more up in
Speaker 3: arms about it than I am, but.
Speaker 2: In what way?
Speaker 3: I think they're up in arms because every single headline
Speaker 3: has to mention how much weight I've lost, every one
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 1: Like I'm just referring to Daily Mail.
Speaker 2: Actually it's you talk to Christy Swan about that same deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And you just can't escape it. But that's fine, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, it is what it is. I don't really
Speaker 3: care what they're writing, but I feel like it has
Speaker 3: gone on a bit long, so I try not to
Speaker 3: feed into it by giving any new information, because the
Speaker 3: minute they have one little new bit of information, then
Speaker 3: it just keeps fueling it. So yeah, I just tried
Speaker 3: to really kind of pull back on any talk of
Speaker 3: that because I don't think we should have that much
Speaker 3: of an obsession about weight loss. Like you say, it's
Speaker 3: okay if you want to lose weight, weight loss can
Speaker 3: be so great for your health and the knock on
Speaker 3: effect that it has. I don't think it's a bad
Speaker 3: thing if someone wants to lose weight, But I don't
Speaker 3: want the message to be when you lose weight suddenly,
Speaker 3: oh you get talked about and everyone loves you. You know.
Speaker 3: That's the part that is tricky and doesn't necessarily send
Speaker 3: out a great message.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just try not to talk about it
Speaker 1: that much on now.
Speaker 2: We've had interesting conversations on me out loud about this
Speaker 2: in terms of how much do famous people owe anyone
Speaker 2: when it comes to private matters, either how they lost weight,
Speaker 2: what surgery they had, how they got pregnant, whether they
Speaker 2: had fertility treatment. And I don't know where I've landed
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 1: I don't know either.
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about that lately too, Okay, So let's
Speaker 3: say someone's had plastic surgery.
Speaker 1: Let's say a certain celebrity.
Speaker 3: Is in her fifties and she looks fabulous, and we
Speaker 3: look at her and go, well, why don't I look
Speaker 3: like that? Does she have an obligation to let us know? Hey, guys,
Speaker 3: it's not natural. Don't feel bad about yourself. I got
Speaker 3: work done, I have money, I was able to access
Speaker 3: the best surgeon, and this.
Speaker 1: Is why I look like that.
Speaker 3: But we're asking them to do that to make us
Speaker 3: feel better. And I don't think they have an obligation
Speaker 3: to reveal things medically by any means. And I think
Speaker 3: some of that can be really private, especially when it
Speaker 3: comes to fertility pregnancy surgeries.
Speaker 1: But then I think.
Speaker 3: It's up to the individual if they want to share
Speaker 3: that because a lot of the time they might have
Speaker 3: this unfair advantage because of the money that they have
Speaker 3: to not make others feel inadequate.
Speaker 1: Because hey, why don't I look like you? But I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that there's way too much invasion when it
Speaker 3: comes to celebrities. It's like we all think we have
Speaker 3: a right to every single piece of information that exists
Speaker 3: about them, and we don't they're people too.
Speaker 1: So I think they have the right to privacy.
Speaker 3: But I think you choose to go into this industry,
Speaker 3: you know what it's about. You think fame is this
Speaker 3: fabulous thing and you chase after it, but then you
Speaker 3: can't then get there and go I want to keep
Speaker 3: the fame and all the perks, but hey, leave me alone.
Speaker 3: Like you do have to accept that there is the
Speaker 3: good and the bad, and I accept that with my job.
Speaker 3: I know that there is ship parts to it, and
Speaker 3: sometimes it can feel very intrusive and you feel so
Speaker 3: vulnerable when that happens. It's horrible, but you can't really
Speaker 3: complain about it because if you don't like it, then
Speaker 3: you can do another job. You know, you can back
Speaker 3: out of that industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, you had someone photographing inside your house.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's legal. It can't be legal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you process that?
Speaker 2: And what do you do? Because you know, here's a
Speaker 2: tiny violin for all the celebrities. Yeah, but that's outrageous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was awful, I gotta say, because the reason
Speaker 3: it's so awful is because you're already in a vulnerable
Speaker 3: place in your life, because you might be seeing someone
Speaker 3: or and then you've got the added pressure of knowing
Speaker 3: that someone that night was as the road, lying in
Speaker 3: the grass, spying on you the whole time. And it's
Speaker 3: just that creepiness of oh fuck, sorry, excuse my language.
Speaker 2: What else it's so used to?
Speaker 1: Is there a sense of him?
Speaker 3: You can even yeah, really, I have been known to
Speaker 3: pull it out every now and exact.
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: It's more just the thought of, oh God, what else
Speaker 3: did I do that.
Speaker 1: That man was watching?
Speaker 3: So it feels super vulnerable when something like that happens.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're walking down the street, fine whatever,
Speaker 3: that's okay, but when they're spying on you in your home.
Speaker 3: And Kitty left the other night. Actually Lee had picked
Speaker 3: her up. It was a week night, and you know,
Speaker 3: my place is a little bit of a fishbowl and
Speaker 3: it's on the beach, so yes, there are windows there
Speaker 3: and you can see in so that sucks that part,
Speaker 3: but hey, you've got to sacrifice one for the other.
Speaker 3: And she called me like two minutes after she drove off,
Speaker 3: and she said, Mom, there's a man lying in the
Speaker 3: park opposite watching into the house, which.
Speaker 2: Would be legal if he then wasn't going to sell
Speaker 2: the photos and make money from stealing your privacy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an odd position to be put in, but
Speaker 3: there's just so much great.
Speaker 2: I'm say more angry than you. Yeah, I'm not that angry.
Speaker 2: I just find I am why aren't you?
Speaker 1: Because I just know.
Speaker 3: That this is what comes with that, and I accept
Speaker 3: that that's what comes.
Speaker 2: With dragmatic about it.
Speaker 1: I'm pragmatic about it, but it's not to say.
Speaker 3: You have moments where you feel really exposed and open
Speaker 3: to everyone's views on what you're doing on your balcony
Speaker 3: and you just feel vulnerable. But it's part of the job.
Speaker 3: So that part is not fun, but most of it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have a parasocial relationship with you. Before that
Speaker 2: word even existed, and before we had social media and influencers,
Speaker 2: people thought they knew you, and they think they know you,
Speaker 2: and in some ways maybe they do know you. You've
Speaker 2: been in areas for decades talking spontaneously about your life.
Speaker 2: So how do you draw those boundaries? Like everyone's lived through,
Speaker 2: you know, marriage to Lee, the baby and kitty and
Speaker 2: Kitty growing up and all of those things, So how
Speaker 2: do you say, and are there areas where you're just like, right,
Speaker 2: I'm going to draw some boundaries around certain things. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to talk about them on air. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to talk about them publicly.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: Most of the time, the boundaries I have in place
Speaker 3: are am I speaking on behalf of two people here? So,
Speaker 3: for instance, the marriage to Lee, I would never say
Speaker 3: certain things because I shouldn't have the power to say
Speaker 3: something really personal that affects someone else as well. It's his, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: So I'm really mindful of that. The people in my life,
Speaker 3: I know what I can and can't say. I also
Speaker 3: know with Kitty the certain things that I would never
Speaker 3: say on air, and they know that what she would
Speaker 3: be okay with me saying. And that goes the same
Speaker 3: with any kind of relationship. I think that there's two
Speaker 3: people involved. I'm very mindful of that. Anything to do
Speaker 3: with me, I'm pretty okay with. You know, there are
Speaker 3: certain things you may not want to share that involve
Speaker 3: just you, and you know what those boundaries are. But
Speaker 3: I think most of the stuff I'm pretty good with sharing.
Speaker 3: I've been so used to it, and I know that
Speaker 3: sometimes people find a lot of comfort in that relating
Speaker 3: to something so personal, So I'm aware that it makes
Speaker 3: someone else feel better that you can share something vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I do like that part of the job because.
Speaker 3: It brings me closer to the audience and I get
Speaker 3: that kind of feedback from so many particularly women who
Speaker 3: might have been through similar things to myself, and I
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just nice to hear when someone else
Speaker 3: is going.
Speaker 1: Through what you're going through.
Speaker 3: So I do like to be able to share a lot,
Speaker 3: but there's always going to be certain things that are
Speaker 3: off limits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was certainly not the end of my conversation
Speaker 2: with Jackie O because I had to ask about something
Speaker 2: that makes her really uncomfortable, and she was such a
Speaker 2: good sport it. I asked her about money and what
Speaker 2: she does with all of it.
Speaker 1: Here's a little taste.
Speaker 3: It's just difficult mea. It's very difficult in many aspects.
Speaker 3: Money is so great on the one hand because it
Speaker 3: gives you this beautiful, comfortable life and you don't.
Speaker 1: Have those worries and pressures.
Speaker 3: And then on the other hand, sometimes you just want
Speaker 3: to be rid of it as well, because it changes dynamics.
Speaker 3: When you're talking about male female dynamics in relationships. There's
Speaker 3: no question that that plays a big part in that,
Speaker 3: and that's when I hate it.
Speaker 2: I also asked her about dating, because she didn't want
Speaker 2: to date straight after she got divorced because her daughter
Speaker 2: was still coming to terms with it, and she was
Speaker 2: still coming to terms with it. But now she is
Speaker 2: diving in and she is even on the apps. She
Speaker 2: explained a few things to me about the apps and
Speaker 2: how people really know that it's her to hear the
Speaker 2: second part of my conversation with Jackie to the link
Speaker 2: in our show notes. The executive producer of No Filter
Speaker 2: is Kimberly Bradish, with sound production by Madeline Gioanno. I'm
Speaker 2: mea Friedman and thank you for having me in your ears.