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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hey friends. Earlier this week,

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Speaker 2: you may have listened to my conversation with Jackie O

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Speaker 2: and her friend and manager Jemma O'Neil, where we spoke

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Speaker 2: about Jackie's addiction, how she got into it and how

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Speaker 2: she got out of it, and how a phone call

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Speaker 2: to Gemma really changed her life, and how that friendship.

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Speaker 1: Saved her life.

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Speaker 2: I think you'll also enjoy listening to the conversation I

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Speaker 2: had with jack just a few months before this, where

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Speaker 2: we talked about really different things like divorce, dating, and money.

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Speaker 2: It was a fascinating conversation. Have a listen, hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Jackie O is on the dating apps at forty eight

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Speaker 2: years old and single after her second divorce. You wouldn't

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Speaker 2: expect someone as famous, as successful, as rich, and as

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Speaker 2: powerful as Jackie O to be on Hinge, and yet

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Speaker 2: there she is. She's not uncomfortable being on a dating app.

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Speaker 2: She's pretty out there, open and honest about her life.

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Speaker 2: She talks about herself and her life very candidly on

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Speaker 2: her radio show with Carl Sandalans every single morning and

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Speaker 2: has done for decades now. But there's one thing Jackie

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Speaker 2: OO doesn't want to talk about, and that's money. And

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Speaker 2: yet she did with me. She walked into the Mama

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Speaker 2: Mayor office, friendly, warm, she wanted to say hello to everybody,

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Speaker 2: and she just seemed really at ease, comfortable in her skin.

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Speaker 2: I've wanted to get Jackie on no filter for a

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Speaker 2: lot of years, and for reasons which you'll understand a

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Speaker 2: little bit better after you've heard our conversation. The time

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Speaker 2: has never been right. She hasn't been ready to sit down.

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Speaker 2: But today she is ready to sit down. She's ready

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Speaker 2: to talk and nothing was off limits. Kyle and JACKIEO

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Speaker 2: have extraordinary power in the Australian media landscape, particularly in

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Speaker 2: the radio industry. In a medium where things are really

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Speaker 2: tough and audiences are shrinking, Jackie O and Kyle have

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Speaker 2: remained at the top of the tree because they're so

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Speaker 2: good at what they do. And not only do they

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Speaker 2: win ratings, they're kingmakers when it comes to business. The

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Speaker 2: revenue and advertising that they bring in with their show

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Speaker 2: can make or break a company. In fact, they've done

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Speaker 2: just that currently, Even as we speak, they're negotiating a

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Speaker 2: new contract and the whole industry is waiting to see

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Speaker 2: how much they're worth. The answer is a lot. We

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Speaker 2: spoke about how much she earns her relationship with Kyle,

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Speaker 2: what it's like off air, the times that they've not

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Speaker 2: been so aligned, and we spoke a lot about divorce,

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Speaker 2: about the biggest mistake people make when they go into

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Speaker 2: a divorce, how her second divorce was so different to

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Speaker 2: her first, and how she's feeling about love at age

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Speaker 2: forty eight. Here's Jackie. Oh, and I think you're going.

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Speaker 1: To really love this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Jack I should probably know my first question, do you not? No?

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Speaker 3: I know?

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Speaker 2: And I don't have notes in front of me.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: We are delayed by a week? Yeah, because can I

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Speaker 2: say why you cancel last time? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: My fault?

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Speaker 3: Actually, So I went away to Western Australia to swim

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Speaker 3: with the whale sharks and stupidly did not put sunscreen

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Speaker 3: on and I broke out in I reckon about nine

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Speaker 3: cold saws on my lip, and the morning I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh God, do you guys film this.

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Speaker 1: And put it online? And You're like yeah, and oh no,

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Speaker 1: it looked ridiculous. So we postponed, it didn't we.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because radio and podcasts didn't used to

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Speaker 2: be filmed, I know, and that's one of the things

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Speaker 2: I loved about them, and I've heard you say recently.

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Speaker 2: Now it's more like TV. Now you've got to do

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Speaker 2: your hair makeup before you come in. What's that transition

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Speaker 2: been like for you.

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Speaker 3: It's been a slow one, which is good because it

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Speaker 3: didn't happen overnight, so they'd film little bits here and there.

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Speaker 1: But I agree.

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Speaker 3: I used to love radio because you didn't have to

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Speaker 3: worry about what you look like, and now it is

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Speaker 3: pretty much doing a TV show every day. You have

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Speaker 3: to be mindful that it's going to be on camera.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be on all your socials and people

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Speaker 3: are going to see it, and people comment, people comment,

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Speaker 3: they love to have a say, and whilst that should

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Speaker 3: never drive the fact that you want to be presentable,

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Speaker 3: it does.

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Speaker 1: In the back of your mind.

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Speaker 3: You're just like, I better do my hair today, Like

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Speaker 3: I look like a wreck people are going to see now.

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Speaker 3: So it's changed so much, but it's been a really

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Speaker 3: gradual progression over the years, with radio being an anonymous

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Speaker 3: to now completely front and center.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how has that changed your getting ready routine in

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Speaker 2: the morning. I mean, I know, if I's obsessed with

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Speaker 2: asking breakfast TV and breakfast radio presenters what time you

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Speaker 2: get off and what your routine's.

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Speaker 1: Like, I knows the number one question.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be Betty basic. So let's get that

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Speaker 2: out of the way.

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Speaker 3: So four AM, and the routine is very quick. Actually

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Speaker 3: it's usually half an hour max, I'd say, just to

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Speaker 3: kind of blow dry their hair real quick and put

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Speaker 3: some makeup on, So it's not too bad.

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Speaker 1: I guess before it was maybe five five ams, so.

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Speaker 2: It's added an extra hour.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've also moved further away, so that doesn't help.

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Speaker 3: So we've stuck on a little bit of time needed.

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Speaker 3: So the alarm, unfortunately, is now going off with four.

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Speaker 2: Why do you have to drive to the studio? Why

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Speaker 2: can't you do it from home?

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Speaker 3: You can, and it's there ready to go in the bedroom.

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Speaker 3: I've got a little office to the side. But you

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Speaker 3: just don't feed off the energy of everyone around you

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Speaker 3: in our office. We just have a great team and

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Speaker 3: it's very different, really feel that kind of disconnect when

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Speaker 3: you're at home. So Kyle and I hate doing it

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Speaker 3: from home. But if we have to, we will. If

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Speaker 3: I've slept in or he's sick, we can do that,

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Speaker 3: but we would much rather not.

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Speaker 2: You've had an amazing year, You've launched a whole new business.

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Speaker 2: How are preparations going for Gwyneth Riving?

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Speaker 1: Well, they're good.

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Speaker 3: Actually, we're really sort of deep diving and in the process.

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Speaker 3: Actually this weekend, jem and my bestie and I are

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Speaker 3: going all in and really nutting out how we want

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Speaker 3: it to kind of be formatted and where we want

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Speaker 3: to go with it. I mean, we know we want

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Speaker 3: to touch on a lot of things because she's such

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Speaker 3: an interesting woman. She's had this incredible career in Hollywood,

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Speaker 3: and she's grown up in Hollywood. She's had very high

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Speaker 3: profile romances and marriages, and then she's built this empire

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Speaker 3: of Goop, which is so successful. And I love that

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Speaker 3: she has over the years stayed really true to her brand,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that she's copped a lot of flak

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Speaker 3: for that. But she's always known what her brand is

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Speaker 3: and I think there's something to learn from that. So,

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of things that I would

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Speaker 3: want to touch on with Gwyneth, and I don't know

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Speaker 3: where to start, but yeah, we're making that start this weekend.

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Speaker 2: What's it like dealing with someone who is at that

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Speaker 2: level of fame in terms of the people around her,

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Speaker 2: what's required.

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Speaker 3: It's actually been so easy with Gwenneth. We asked her

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Speaker 3: what her rider was and or we got back was

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Speaker 3: bottled water.

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Speaker 1: That was it? Nothing else? Does she want nothing?

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Speaker 3: I know, it's almost yeah. I think the story is

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Speaker 3: that there is nothing. But I was surprised. She's very

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Speaker 3: low maintenance. She is really keen to wear an Australian

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Speaker 3: designer on stage, and there's really been not much else.

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Speaker 3: Everything's been smooth sailing with her and her people, which

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Speaker 3: is I mean for our first one, we got lucky.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure down the track we'll have some bumps along

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Speaker 3: the road, but this one's been very very easy.

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Speaker 2: Why start a business, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think for me it's something I've always had in

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Speaker 3: the back of my mind that I don't just want

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Speaker 3: to always have only radio. Radio can't be the only

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Speaker 3: thing that defines me because one day that's going to end,

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Speaker 3: and who am I. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: struggle with their identity when they've had a very long

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Speaker 3: lasting career that they love and that they're passionate about.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit like sports people when their rugby

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Speaker 3: career is over or swimming career at the end of it,

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Speaker 3: when they don't have another passion or another avenue to explore,

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Speaker 3: they're lost. And I never want to be in that situation.

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Speaker 3: So I think for me, it's always there. I've always

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Speaker 3: wanted to do it. I just haven't known exactly what

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Speaker 3: I want to do, and I didn't want to do

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Speaker 3: something just for the sake of it.

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Speaker 1: It had to be the right thing.

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Speaker 3: And I think working with my best friend, who I've

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Speaker 3: worked with before, so I know.

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Speaker 1: We work really well together, this just seemed perfect.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, I've been thinking about you and partnerships

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Speaker 2: because you're obviously so inextricably linked with Kyle and now Gemma,

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Speaker 2: and I thought that's interesting that when you chose to

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Speaker 2: do your own thing away from Kyle and Jackie oh Brand,

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Speaker 2: you chose to do it with someone else again, not

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Speaker 2: by yourself.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, with besties, because it's the two of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm talking now to my psychologists. Welcome,

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Speaker 3: I bet you have some good insight on that too.

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Speaker 1: What that says? Do you know that's true?

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Speaker 3: And if I'm going to be really honest with you,

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Speaker 3: it would be that I don't have the confidence to

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Speaker 3: do it on my own. And that might be because

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Speaker 3: I've spent years and years bouncing off someone and so

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Speaker 3: it's all I know. So for me to go out

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Speaker 3: completely on my own, Look, could I put this together?

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Speaker 3: Probably not.

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Speaker 1: I don't have.

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Speaker 2: The've been hard to call it besties if it was.

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Speaker 3: Just true, a bit awkward, that's true, that's true.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just to me. I like collaborating with people.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I would even enjoy doing it

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Speaker 3: my own. I think I'd be very stressed doing it

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Speaker 3: on my own. And could I do it on my own?

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Speaker 3: I don't think I could. Not this kind of business.

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Speaker 3: Jemma's got so much skill in the business, back end.

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Speaker 1: Part of it. She studied it. She's got no degrees,

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Speaker 1: so she.

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Speaker 3: Understands that the numbers, and I've never had to deal

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Speaker 3: with that in my life. I mean, I finished school

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Speaker 3: in year ten and went to Tafe to do a

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Speaker 3: secretarial course and that's it for me.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 3: So all I've known really is talking on the radio.

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Speaker 3: So I don't claim to kind of know about business,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know that I would want to do

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Speaker 3: something like that on my own. That just seems a

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Speaker 3: bit overwhelming, to be honest. So I think what works

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Speaker 3: with Gemma and I. She's got that beack end and

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Speaker 3: then I've got the other side that I can bring

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Speaker 3: to the table, and the two work really well together.

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Speaker 2: What's the difference between being in a business partnership with

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Speaker 2: a guy and a girl? For you, what have you noticed?

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Speaker 1: I think with Gemma there's more communication.

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Speaker 3: So every step of the way, when a little problem arises,

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Speaker 3: it's dealt with immediately, as opposed to it building and

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Speaker 3: building and it becoming an issue. I would say that

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Speaker 3: Kyle and I don't let it become a huge issue,

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Speaker 3: but we certainly aren't dealing with it as it happens.

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Speaker 3: And I think there's that really honest communication between Gemma

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Speaker 3: and I, as opposed to maybe sometimes with Kyle and

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Speaker 3: I I will sweep that one under the rug, won't

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Speaker 3: address it. Everything gets addressed because you know, we love

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Speaker 3: to communicate more than men.

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Speaker 2: A lot of famous on air partnerships, either in TV

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Speaker 2: or in radio aren't necessarily off screen or off air

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Speaker 2: what they are on air in terms of their dynamic

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Speaker 2: or in terms of the closeness. How has that evolved

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Speaker 2: with you and Kyle over the years. I'm really curious

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, there is a definite respect, always there and has

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Speaker 3: been regardless of the different parts we've gone on. Because

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Speaker 3: it's been what twenty three years now working together. Wow,

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Speaker 3: it's a long friendship.

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Speaker 2: That's longer than most marriages.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is just longer than any marriage I've had.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we connected very quickly. I think after a

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Speaker 3: year we really bonded. We went away to Spain for

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Speaker 3: a work trip and got to know each other really well.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like we slept together. We didn't.

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Speaker 2: Was that chemistry ever there? Not chemistry that way, But

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Speaker 2: you know in male female relationships, yeah, it's usually there.

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Speaker 2: Even if it's not there, it's there, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know if it was with Carl and I.

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Speaker 3: We had the chemistry of like a best friend would,

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Speaker 3: But I don't think there's ever been any sexual chemistry.

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Speaker 2: Not from you. What about from him?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know you well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he's joking about it or not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he says that obviously a lot on air, So he's

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Speaker 1: still say.

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Speaker 2: And do you feel like he's like a brother, Like

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Speaker 2: is that your feeling towards him, Like he wouldn't care

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Speaker 2: if you farted in front of him or yeah, you brother,

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Speaker 2: You're never try to know exactly.

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Speaker 3: He's like my big brother, the protector. He's very protective

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Speaker 3: of me extremely. How does that manifest, particularly now that

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Speaker 3: I'm single? It manifestsn't that way like he's got big

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Speaker 3: brother dad. Absolutely, it's hard to get his tick of approval.

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Speaker 3: Put it that way. Yeah, yeah, really hard. So he's

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Speaker 3: funny who is okay with and who is not? But

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Speaker 3: you know, I interrupted you. You said you guys went

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Speaker 3: away and there was no sex, but you had X

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Speaker 3: and then we bonded and then we were so close.

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Speaker 3: When he was with Tamara, we were Lee and I. Yes,

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Speaker 3: so his first wife Tamara and then Lee and I

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Speaker 3: as a foursome. We would hang out all the time

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Speaker 3: and they lived just around the corner and we would

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Speaker 3: go every Saturday night to their house and you know,

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Speaker 3: drink and dance and just a couple of friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we were a couple of friends, and then when Tamora

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Speaker 3: and Kyle split up. Kyle, I don't want to speak

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Speaker 3: on his path, but he coped with that breakup by

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Speaker 3: going down a completely different path, which he has said

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Speaker 3: before involved a lot of partying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is when.

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Speaker 3: It was probably around the time he was about thirty nine,

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Speaker 3: thirty eight, thirty nine, and he just started to hang

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Speaker 3: out in the Cross all the time, and then he

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Speaker 3: was renting this house that just was party after party

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Speaker 3: after party. I can't remember with the timeline, but it

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Speaker 3: was sort of not long after that that I was

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Speaker 3: also trying to feel pregnant, and we just went our

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Speaker 3: separate ways in terms of the closeness that we had,

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Speaker 3: but it was always there. It's never gone away. Our

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Speaker 3: working relationship and how much we respect each other and

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Speaker 3: get on, we always get on, but we just weren't

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Speaker 3: socializing outside of work, and that remained that way for

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Speaker 3: a really long time until Kyle.

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Speaker 1: And Teague and got together. And then now we started

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Speaker 1: to kind of be.

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Speaker 2: A couple of friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys have judgment for each other's lives back then?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally we did. Yes.

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Speaker 3: He thought I was so boring and didn't want to

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Speaker 3: know anything about me because I was now a mum.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what's happened to you?

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Speaker 3: Why are you doing all of this? This isn't you

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Speaker 3: Because Kyle was a real homebody. He was a guy

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Speaker 3: from Brisbane who didn't party. He came straight here into

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Speaker 3: a relationship with Tomorrow and he was just not that

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Speaker 3: kind of guy, and so that sort of shocked me.

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Speaker 3: You know, what he was doing. It was almost like

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Speaker 3: this kind of rebellious period. So yeah, we totally had

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Speaker 3: judgment for each other's life.

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Speaker 2: And were you worried about his health? He was making

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Speaker 2: some pretty dangerous choices and he wasn't a young chicken anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was, you know, in his forties and he was

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Speaker 2: not looking well and he was having a lot of

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Speaker 2: time off for ye blood pressure and various things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was.

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Speaker 3: He was having a lot of time off, And yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course I was worried about his health, you know,

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Speaker 3: because he's someone who who has picked up those habits

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Speaker 3: at the time later on in life, which is kind

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Speaker 3: of can be scary for men that are hitting their

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Speaker 3: forties and suddenly they start doing that.

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Speaker 1: When their body isn't used to it.

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Speaker 3: So I was worried, but you can't say anything, can you, Like,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can say something, but they don't listen

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 2: No, especially if they think that you're just.

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Speaker 1: Boring one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just the boring mum who's you know, not

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Speaker 3: wanting him to have any fun.

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Speaker 2: There's friend concerned, but then there was also I imagine

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Speaker 2: there would have also been business concern, because it's like, dude,

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Speaker 2: if you can't show up to work every day, or

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Speaker 2: if you're hungover or tired or calling him sick, that

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Speaker 2: impacts on you. Yeah, I mean, I'm the quality.

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Speaker 1: Of the show or does it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It does? It definitely does. I mean there's no question

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Speaker 3: we work best when we're together.

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Speaker 1: I guess I just took it for what it was.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't too concerned that, oh god, he's going to

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Speaker 3: die and then there's going to be no show.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking like that.

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Speaker 3: I think I was just taking it day to day,

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Speaker 3: and I hate it when he's not there. Obviously, it

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Speaker 3: makes the workload a trillion times harder. Why you're taking

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Speaker 3: on everything yourself, so when you're doing it on air

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Speaker 3: with someone else, you have that time to when the

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Speaker 3: other person's talking, you have your time to catch up

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Speaker 3: like a little bit in your mind. And especially when

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Speaker 3: you're interviewing or anything. You're just so used to having

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Speaker 3: like a little window of ten seconds to catch your breath.

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Speaker 3: But when you're doing it on your own, it's a

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Speaker 3: brain drain, basically.

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Speaker 2: I know that when you've been away, like when you

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Speaker 2: had time off, when you had your long COVID he

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Speaker 2: had guest co hosts. If he calls in sick, does

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Speaker 2: someone step in for him?

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Speaker 3: Or you have to carry it theTimes we might just

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Speaker 3: these days get a producer to just bounce off.

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Speaker 1: We used to try and scramble around for people.

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Speaker 3: We had people like Jewels, lun Bo Ryan with a

365
00:17:50,485 --> 00:17:52,885
Speaker 3: specific phone. We would buy them and we would just

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Speaker 3: say keep it on your bedside table, always on.

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Speaker 1: No one will ever call it unless Kyle sick.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes they didn't answer it because you know, it

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Speaker 3: could be months that would go by and they'd think, oh,

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Speaker 3: no one's going to call on the day we call,

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Speaker 3: they don't have it. So you'd be scrambling at four

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Speaker 3: am to find someone. You'd be calling ev everyone and

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Speaker 3: there's just no one around. And I remember getting calls

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Speaker 3: on the way into work saying what about so and so?

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Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking, oh god, this, I hate this.

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Speaker 3: You know, they were my worst so and now we

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Speaker 3: just do a producer and it's just easier that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's there must be so much. I mean,

379
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Speaker 2: I know, hosting a podcast, the unspoken things that go

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Speaker 2: between co hosts that have been working together for a

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Speaker 2: long time, I guess, like any relationship. But what are

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Speaker 2: the some of the things that you don't realize, the

383
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Speaker 2: unspoken language between you and Kyle and till he's not

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Speaker 2: there that other people might not know, as in like

385
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Speaker 2: like the way you'll sort of save each other, or

386
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Speaker 2: if you're looking at your phone, then he'll go, all right,

387
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Speaker 2: she's distracted. Oh yes, oh, you know, covering for each other,

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Speaker 2: like just you've got each other's backs in studio, on air.

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Speaker 2: What are some of those?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: I mean there's many times where Carl might turn off

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Speaker 3: his microphone and start having a conversation with one of

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Speaker 3: the producers. No one will know that, but you just

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Speaker 3: keep going, keep going. He might see that I don't

395
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Speaker 3: have a question next, and so he knows. I don't

396
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Speaker 3: even have to give him a look. He just knows

397
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Speaker 3: when I have a question when I don't. It's just

398
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Speaker 3: those little cues you pick up from working with someone

399
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Speaker 3: for that long. There might be something that he even

400
00:19:24,365 --> 00:19:26,885
Speaker 3: says on air where I give him just that little,

401
00:19:27,085 --> 00:19:29,605
Speaker 3: kind of tiny look and he goes, oh shit, okay,

402
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Speaker 3: I won't keep pushing that, And I'm okay for him

403
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Speaker 3: to push stuff most of the time.

404
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Speaker 1: But every now and again, all.

405
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Speaker 3: You have to do is just give them a very

406
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Speaker 3: slight look that no one else would pick up on

407
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Speaker 3: except for them.

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Speaker 2: My husband and I used to sometimes give it to

409
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Speaker 2: the looks across the board table, and then one time

410
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Speaker 2: I was like, you know, other people can see the

411
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Speaker 2: expression on your face, right, And so you guys used

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Speaker 2: to be able to do that more than I imagine

413
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Speaker 2: you can now because it's being videoed. Yeah, so if

414
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Speaker 2: you're like going oh yeah, quiet or.

415
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Speaker 3: Wind up like doing the covery, one can see everyone

416
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Speaker 3: can see it. To be honest, I think most of

417
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Speaker 3: those times all they hopefully don't include. Hopefully we've got

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Speaker 3: a good editor that cuts those things out. I don't

419
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Speaker 3: see how our videos a half the time, So who

420
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Speaker 3: knows what.

421
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Speaker 2: Different roles do you guys play in the behind the

422
00:20:12,765 --> 00:20:15,445
Speaker 2: scenes of the show, because there's a lot of you know,

423
00:20:15,725 --> 00:20:18,085
Speaker 2: commentary about the roles that you play on the show,

424
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Speaker 2: and I think it's often falsely said that he dominates

425
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Speaker 2: or that you somehow enable him. How do you feel

426
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Speaker 2: about that when people think that.

427
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Speaker 3: When it comes to the show, there's things that people

428
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Speaker 3: would listen to and think, why didn't she pull him

429
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Speaker 3: up on that?

430
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Speaker 1: And I can pull him up on that.

431
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Speaker 3: Sometimes I also can see it for what it is,

432
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Speaker 3: which is Kyle is kidding. And I don't like being

433
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Speaker 3: a handbreak in life on everything. I do believe our

434
00:20:50,885 --> 00:20:52,685
Speaker 3: listeners get it, and I think the ones that might

435
00:20:52,725 --> 00:20:54,805
Speaker 3: tune in for the first time here and there don't.

436
00:20:55,205 --> 00:20:58,005
Speaker 3: So when he says something it is a joke. Most

437
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Speaker 3: people know him. For the two percent that are listening

438
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Speaker 3: that don't understand Kyle's humor, then I'm not going to

439
00:21:03,045 --> 00:21:05,725
Speaker 3: be the handbreak for just that two percent because hopefully

440
00:21:05,765 --> 00:21:08,285
Speaker 3: everyone gets it that you know, it's very tongue in cheek. Yes,

441
00:21:08,325 --> 00:21:10,725
Speaker 3: he says things that are and it shits me sometimes,

442
00:21:10,765 --> 00:21:13,485
Speaker 3: and when it shits me, I will say it. But

443
00:21:13,525 --> 00:21:15,165
Speaker 3: if it's not shitting me and I can see the

444
00:21:15,205 --> 00:21:17,245
Speaker 3: humor in it, then I'm not going to pretend to

445
00:21:17,285 --> 00:21:17,965
Speaker 3: be outraged.

446
00:21:18,045 --> 00:21:21,365
Speaker 1: I just I don't like that style either.

447
00:21:21,685 --> 00:21:23,645
Speaker 3: I just have to stay true to if I find

448
00:21:23,645 --> 00:21:25,805
Speaker 3: it offensive, I will say something If I don't, and

449
00:21:25,845 --> 00:21:26,365
Speaker 3: I think it's.

450
00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:29,005
Speaker 1: Funny because I kind of love politically and correct humor.

451
00:21:29,045 --> 00:21:32,405
Speaker 3: I still do to this day, and there's certain things

452
00:21:32,405 --> 00:21:36,045
Speaker 3: that cross a line, and we're more sensitive to particular topics,

453
00:21:36,045 --> 00:21:40,445
Speaker 3: which we should be, but I can also appreciate inappropriateness

454
00:21:40,605 --> 00:21:43,445
Speaker 3: and personally if I find it funny.

455
00:21:43,165 --> 00:21:44,765
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend I don't.

456
00:21:45,525 --> 00:21:49,605
Speaker 2: Have you ever felt resentful of people trying to push

457
00:21:49,645 --> 00:21:53,565
Speaker 2: you into being the police and being his mum? Like

458
00:21:53,925 --> 00:21:56,725
Speaker 2: you do that sometimes, but you don't always not consistent,

459
00:21:57,605 --> 00:22:00,085
Speaker 2: but which means it's genuine. But so have you ever

460
00:22:00,125 --> 00:22:02,965
Speaker 2: had to say to him, Hey, it's not fair that

461
00:22:03,045 --> 00:22:06,125
Speaker 2: you always get to say the interesting, outrageous things and

462
00:22:06,125 --> 00:22:08,645
Speaker 2: I've got to go come on, Kyle, Yeah, yeah, Like,

463
00:22:08,725 --> 00:22:11,285
Speaker 2: how do you make sure that dynamic doesn't get too entrenched?

464
00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:14,965
Speaker 3: I think there are certain times when Kyle he's thinking

465
00:22:15,005 --> 00:22:17,205
Speaker 3: something off the air, and I know he's saying it

466
00:22:17,205 --> 00:22:19,885
Speaker 3: to kind of gauge what my reaction is to it,

467
00:22:20,405 --> 00:22:24,645
Speaker 3: and so there are many times off air that I

468
00:22:24,685 --> 00:22:26,885
Speaker 3: say no, no, no, you're not going on air and

469
00:22:26,925 --> 00:22:29,605
Speaker 3: saying that, so I am a lot more of a

470
00:22:29,645 --> 00:22:32,685
Speaker 3: handbrake off the air because I don't want to stop.

471
00:22:32,445 --> 00:22:34,365
Speaker 1: Down and ruin the flow of the show on air.

472
00:22:34,445 --> 00:22:37,365
Speaker 3: So I think I subconsciously knows when it might be

473
00:22:37,405 --> 00:22:39,405
Speaker 3: too far, which is why he runs have passed me

474
00:22:39,485 --> 00:22:41,605
Speaker 3: in a way off the air. But in terms of

475
00:22:41,605 --> 00:22:45,525
Speaker 3: playing that role, no, I've never felt pressured to do that,

476
00:22:45,965 --> 00:22:48,445
Speaker 3: not from anyone I work with, maybe the audience, or

477
00:22:48,525 --> 00:22:52,205
Speaker 3: maybe when I've been interviewed by someone. I've been asked

478
00:22:52,205 --> 00:22:56,685
Speaker 3: that many times, but I don't listen to the noise

479
00:22:57,205 --> 00:22:59,365
Speaker 3: outside of what's happening in that studio and what I

480
00:22:59,445 --> 00:23:00,645
Speaker 3: feel at that moment.

481
00:23:02,805 --> 00:23:07,685
Speaker 2: Up next, Jackie talks pretty candidly about divorce, how it

482
00:23:07,725 --> 00:23:11,165
Speaker 2: was so different for her second time, the things no

483
00:23:11,245 --> 00:23:14,645
Speaker 2: one can warn you about, the things she got most wrong,

484
00:23:15,445 --> 00:23:19,565
Speaker 2: and how she navigates co parenting with a man she's

485
00:23:19,605 --> 00:23:28,045
Speaker 2: no longer married. To stay with me, tell me about

486
00:23:28,245 --> 00:23:32,805
Speaker 2: being divorced twice. Divorce, babe, divorce, How is it different

487
00:23:33,085 --> 00:23:37,045
Speaker 2: being divorced the second time to being divorced the first time?

488
00:23:37,685 --> 00:23:42,165
Speaker 3: So so different, very different with Phil. That felt like

489
00:23:42,765 --> 00:23:46,685
Speaker 3: I guess I was so young when we were together nineteen.

490
00:23:46,805 --> 00:23:51,365
Speaker 3: I was married at nineteen. Wow ya why I know?

491
00:23:51,485 --> 00:23:54,445
Speaker 3: So I met him at eighteen and we were married

492
00:23:54,485 --> 00:23:55,085
Speaker 3: by nineteen.

493
00:23:55,285 --> 00:23:57,845
Speaker 2: But I don't understand why I.

494
00:23:57,805 --> 00:24:00,005
Speaker 1: Tend to be an all in kind of person.

495
00:24:00,885 --> 00:24:05,845
Speaker 3: I love love, and I think when I meet someone

496
00:24:05,885 --> 00:24:08,645
Speaker 3: a lot of the time I tend to go, oh,

497
00:24:08,725 --> 00:24:12,045
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a romantic and honestly like, Phil and

498
00:24:12,125 --> 00:24:16,365
Speaker 3: I were such a great match in many ways. But

499
00:24:16,565 --> 00:24:20,045
Speaker 3: the unfortunate thing with that was that he was twenty

500
00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:23,405
Speaker 3: nine going on thirty and I was eighteen going on nineteen,

501
00:24:23,525 --> 00:24:27,685
Speaker 3: and as a woman, you changed so much in those years.

502
00:24:27,765 --> 00:24:31,525
Speaker 3: So I think the first marriage to Phil was beautiful

503
00:24:31,685 --> 00:24:33,325
Speaker 3: and we worked well together.

504
00:24:33,445 --> 00:24:35,845
Speaker 1: We got on so well, everything was great.

505
00:24:36,365 --> 00:24:37,725
Speaker 2: He wasn't your boss, was he?

506
00:24:38,045 --> 00:24:38,165
Speaker 1: No?

507
00:24:38,685 --> 00:24:39,805
Speaker 2: No? You together?

508
00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:43,325
Speaker 3: We ended up working together in I followed him around.

509
00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:46,005
Speaker 3: We went from the Gold Coast to Canberra, and then

510
00:24:46,045 --> 00:24:47,565
Speaker 3: he got another job in Adelaide.

511
00:24:47,645 --> 00:24:49,365
Speaker 2: He was an on air present He was an.

512
00:24:49,485 --> 00:24:52,565
Speaker 3: Presenter doing the Hot thirty and I was just helping

513
00:24:52,565 --> 00:24:54,845
Speaker 3: out one night in Adelaide and it all started from there.

514
00:24:55,325 --> 00:24:56,525
Speaker 1: He used to call me at home.

515
00:24:56,565 --> 00:24:59,405
Speaker 3: I'd come home from I was doing temping work and

516
00:24:59,525 --> 00:25:01,365
Speaker 3: he used to call me, going, I need you to

517
00:25:01,405 --> 00:25:03,445
Speaker 3: pretend to be a caller on air because we don't

518
00:25:03,445 --> 00:25:04,405
Speaker 3: have any callers coming through.

519
00:25:04,445 --> 00:25:06,805
Speaker 1: And I used to just be terrified and I'd never

520
00:25:06,845 --> 00:25:07,645
Speaker 1: get it right.

521
00:25:08,005 --> 00:25:09,485
Speaker 3: And he'd always made me go, no, yeah, I have

522
00:25:09,485 --> 00:25:11,445
Speaker 3: to do it again and this time say this, and

523
00:25:11,805 --> 00:25:12,445
Speaker 3: I hated it.

524
00:25:12,485 --> 00:25:14,765
Speaker 1: I was thinking, who would do radio? This sucks?

525
00:25:15,245 --> 00:25:17,165
Speaker 3: And then it happened that I was filling in for

526
00:25:17,205 --> 00:25:20,045
Speaker 3: someone on the phones one night. But that marriage was

527
00:25:20,165 --> 00:25:23,405
Speaker 3: really beautiful. But it was like a high school romance.

528
00:25:24,045 --> 00:25:26,525
Speaker 3: And so when that ended, as painful as it was,

529
00:25:27,005 --> 00:25:30,005
Speaker 3: it's very different to the marriage that ends when you

530
00:25:30,045 --> 00:25:30,605
Speaker 3: have children.

531
00:25:31,045 --> 00:25:33,245
Speaker 2: How long were you in Fielm married for We were.

532
00:25:33,205 --> 00:25:36,285
Speaker 3: Married, So I was married from nineteen through to twenty four.

533
00:25:36,965 --> 00:25:39,085
Speaker 2: That's quite a long time for a start of marriage.

534
00:25:39,285 --> 00:25:41,525
Speaker 1: For a start of marriage, yeah, I know, but.

535
00:25:41,485 --> 00:25:43,485
Speaker 2: You would have been a very different person at twenty four.

536
00:25:43,685 --> 00:25:43,965
Speaker 2: I was.

537
00:25:44,125 --> 00:25:45,045
Speaker 1: I was very different.

538
00:25:45,125 --> 00:25:46,485
Speaker 2: Was it a difficult decision to end?

539
00:25:46,565 --> 00:25:47,325
Speaker 1: One hundred percent?

540
00:25:47,765 --> 00:25:51,005
Speaker 3: Extremely You don't just wake up one day and go, Leah,

541
00:25:51,005 --> 00:25:53,605
Speaker 3: I know this isn't working. It's something that you think

542
00:25:53,605 --> 00:25:57,485
Speaker 3: about and you struggle with massively internally, and was.

543
00:25:57,445 --> 00:25:59,885
Speaker 2: It because the next logical phase was for you to

544
00:25:59,965 --> 00:26:01,485
Speaker 2: have kids with him?

545
00:26:01,645 --> 00:26:04,525
Speaker 1: You know, we weren't even talking about it that much.

546
00:26:05,005 --> 00:26:07,765
Speaker 3: Really, I don't even know that we ever had a

547
00:26:07,805 --> 00:26:11,925
Speaker 3: serious conversation, which is why I feel like I look

548
00:26:12,005 --> 00:26:14,445
Speaker 3: back on that and it was very much like this

549
00:26:15,125 --> 00:26:16,725
Speaker 3: sort of high school sweetheart, you know.

550
00:26:17,045 --> 00:26:20,605
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just felt so young and innocent.

551
00:26:21,045 --> 00:26:23,685
Speaker 2: Did you feel stigma of being divorced at twenty four?

552
00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:26,765
Speaker 3: I don't really care about stuff like that. I don't

553
00:26:26,765 --> 00:26:29,805
Speaker 3: care what people think or their judgment. I just think

554
00:26:29,845 --> 00:26:32,525
Speaker 3: you have to live the life that's true for you

555
00:26:32,605 --> 00:26:36,045
Speaker 3: and what's going to make you happy. So I definitely

556
00:26:36,125 --> 00:26:40,125
Speaker 3: had family at the time who were really disconnected from

557
00:26:40,125 --> 00:26:42,205
Speaker 3: me completely because they thought I was making a mistake.

558
00:26:42,205 --> 00:26:44,725
Speaker 3: They wouldn't come to the wedding, so you know, there

559
00:26:44,725 --> 00:26:45,845
Speaker 3: was a bit of pushback there.

560
00:26:45,885 --> 00:26:46,365
Speaker 1: For sure.

561
00:26:46,725 --> 00:26:49,205
Speaker 2: Were those people happy when the marriage ended or they

562
00:26:49,325 --> 00:26:50,485
Speaker 2: got used to the idea by then?

563
00:26:50,565 --> 00:26:52,805
Speaker 1: No, they reached back out once the marriage had ended.

564
00:26:53,245 --> 00:26:55,725
Speaker 3: But again, it was just you know, I kind of

565
00:26:55,765 --> 00:27:01,245
Speaker 3: went from Phil to Lee really quickly. So what was

566
00:27:01,285 --> 00:27:07,925
Speaker 3: the gap? It would have been maybe eight months. Oh wow, Yeah, yeah, okay,

567
00:27:08,005 --> 00:27:10,565
Speaker 3: see what I mean, girl, I hear?

568
00:27:10,925 --> 00:27:12,845
Speaker 1: Which is my flaw? Ye did meet?

569
00:27:13,045 --> 00:27:15,485
Speaker 3: It's something I've learned now. I met Lee when I

570
00:27:15,525 --> 00:27:17,165
Speaker 3: was out. We were at the Blue Room. Do you

571
00:27:17,165 --> 00:27:18,685
Speaker 3: remember the Blue Room on Street?

572
00:27:19,245 --> 00:27:19,485
Speaker 2: Yeah?

573
00:27:19,605 --> 00:27:20,325
Speaker 1: I really do.

574
00:27:20,565 --> 00:27:23,245
Speaker 3: And I had just started pop stars. Yeah, it's like

575
00:27:23,285 --> 00:27:26,245
Speaker 3: a bar that was, yeah, the place to be at

576
00:27:26,285 --> 00:27:29,725
Speaker 3: the time. And he was British, not here for long,

577
00:27:29,885 --> 00:27:33,325
Speaker 3: and he had seen me on TV and he's too

578
00:27:33,325 --> 00:27:35,405
Speaker 3: nervous to come over, so he sent his friend over

579
00:27:35,485 --> 00:27:38,045
Speaker 3: to buy me a drink. And that was kind of

580
00:27:38,045 --> 00:27:41,685
Speaker 3: how we met. And I thought it was gorgeous obviously.

581
00:27:41,965 --> 00:27:45,765
Speaker 2: And eight months m you single? Fa.

582
00:27:45,925 --> 00:27:47,885
Speaker 3: I had a little fling in there with a mechanic

583
00:27:49,605 --> 00:27:51,845
Speaker 3: that lasted for late two or three months and then

584
00:27:52,005 --> 00:27:53,485
Speaker 3: yeah it was Lee.

585
00:27:53,685 --> 00:27:56,565
Speaker 2: So you seem to be well for that period of

586
00:27:56,565 --> 00:27:59,645
Speaker 2: your life. You were certainly a monogamous girl like to

587
00:27:59,685 --> 00:28:03,805
Speaker 2: be in relationships. Yeah, yeah, not a single creature.

588
00:28:03,925 --> 00:28:04,685
Speaker 1: Definitely not.

589
00:28:05,205 --> 00:28:09,325
Speaker 3: I was that girl that was desperate for another relationship

590
00:28:09,485 --> 00:28:11,765
Speaker 3: not long after. Yeah, It's taken me a bit of

591
00:28:12,045 --> 00:28:14,685
Speaker 3: work to get to this point now where I'm not

592
00:28:14,805 --> 00:28:15,565
Speaker 3: like that anymore.

593
00:28:16,125 --> 00:28:18,405
Speaker 1: But I have always been like that.

594
00:28:18,645 --> 00:28:20,605
Speaker 2: I mean, how did you get to the point where

595
00:28:20,645 --> 00:28:22,885
Speaker 2: you didn't just want to jump when things ended with Lee,

596
00:28:22,925 --> 00:28:24,365
Speaker 2: that you didn't just want to jump back in.

597
00:28:25,485 --> 00:28:29,725
Speaker 3: I think once the Lee marriage ended, because I had Kitty,

598
00:28:29,845 --> 00:28:32,005
Speaker 3: there was so much more to it than just me

599
00:28:32,205 --> 00:28:35,405
Speaker 3: jumping into a new relationship. There's a lot of pain

600
00:28:35,525 --> 00:28:37,925
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of healing you have to do

601
00:28:38,045 --> 00:28:41,685
Speaker 3: after that kind of thing, and I really wanted to

602
00:28:41,725 --> 00:28:45,805
Speaker 3: focus on Kitty, really really focus on that, because those

603
00:28:45,925 --> 00:28:48,805
Speaker 3: years for her were really important. I mean, she was

604
00:28:49,365 --> 00:28:53,885
Speaker 3: around nine, and from nine to twelve, it's a lot

605
00:28:53,885 --> 00:28:56,285
Speaker 3: when your parents are divorcing, So I really wanted to

606
00:28:56,325 --> 00:28:59,805
Speaker 3: give her all of my time and not bring someone

607
00:28:59,885 --> 00:29:02,845
Speaker 3: new into her life very quickly. Not that I think

608
00:29:02,845 --> 00:29:06,725
Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but I just really

609
00:29:06,725 --> 00:29:10,245
Speaker 3: wanted to make sure she could get through that in

610
00:29:10,285 --> 00:29:14,525
Speaker 3: a stable environment, because it's such a shock for kids

611
00:29:14,605 --> 00:29:16,965
Speaker 3: to go through seeing their parents' divorce.

612
00:29:17,445 --> 00:29:18,725
Speaker 1: So I'm glad I did that.

613
00:29:18,845 --> 00:29:22,565
Speaker 3: And then obviously I wasn't feeling great at the time anyway,

614
00:29:22,845 --> 00:29:25,245
Speaker 3: and as you know, got into a little bit of

615
00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:26,725
Speaker 3: a rut. And then once I've been out of that,

616
00:29:26,805 --> 00:29:29,125
Speaker 3: I kind of feel now in a really good place

617
00:29:29,285 --> 00:29:31,605
Speaker 3: to start dating in a really healthy way too.

618
00:29:32,605 --> 00:29:35,845
Speaker 2: You said divorce after a child is very different to

619
00:29:35,965 --> 00:29:40,485
Speaker 2: divorce before you have kids, And I've also heard you

620
00:29:40,525 --> 00:29:43,605
Speaker 2: say that people think that divorce will just be a

621
00:29:43,605 --> 00:29:45,485
Speaker 2: few bad months or ah a year.

622
00:29:45,645 --> 00:29:48,005
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the.

623
00:29:47,365 --> 00:29:50,405
Speaker 2: Time frame of divorce in the different phases.

624
00:29:50,925 --> 00:29:53,365
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked that, because I have a

625
00:29:53,365 --> 00:29:56,925
Speaker 3: lot of friends who are going through that and you

626
00:29:56,965 --> 00:30:00,245
Speaker 3: don't want to scare them completely. But it is not

627
00:30:00,485 --> 00:30:04,205
Speaker 3: quick by any means. So the initial period might feel

628
00:30:04,205 --> 00:30:07,965
Speaker 3: depending on the circumstances. Of course, you might feel some

629
00:30:08,005 --> 00:30:10,925
Speaker 3: sort of relief in there and you think, Okay, this

630
00:30:11,005 --> 00:30:13,285
Speaker 3: decision's now been made and we're kind of going our

631
00:30:13,285 --> 00:30:13,885
Speaker 3: separate ways.

632
00:30:13,925 --> 00:30:14,605
Speaker 1: Isn't this great?

633
00:30:15,245 --> 00:30:18,005
Speaker 3: And then the reality hits and then you have to

634
00:30:18,045 --> 00:30:22,805
Speaker 3: start dealing with separating of assets and child custody And

635
00:30:22,885 --> 00:30:27,645
Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter how great your relationship is. That

636
00:30:27,805 --> 00:30:32,725
Speaker 3: part is so painful and so triggering for everyone I

637
00:30:32,765 --> 00:30:33,485
Speaker 3: know who's been.

638
00:30:33,365 --> 00:30:37,445
Speaker 2: Through it in what ways Without wanting to probe what

639
00:30:37,605 --> 00:30:41,005
Speaker 2: parts of that are triggering, what parts of that are painful.

640
00:30:40,565 --> 00:30:43,405
Speaker 3: The worst comes out in people, and when lawyers are involved,

641
00:30:43,605 --> 00:30:46,805
Speaker 3: so you might say certain things within your relationship if

642
00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:48,765
Speaker 3: we ever split up, I would never do this, I

643
00:30:48,765 --> 00:30:52,005
Speaker 3: would never ask for this. And then suddenly you're alone

644
00:30:52,005 --> 00:30:54,565
Speaker 3: with your lawyer, and your lawyer's going you have to

645
00:30:54,605 --> 00:30:57,725
Speaker 3: ask for this, and so you're hit with those kind

646
00:30:57,765 --> 00:31:01,685
Speaker 3: of demands and then you feel betrayed and that is

647
00:31:01,765 --> 00:31:03,685
Speaker 3: incredibly triggering, and you think.

648
00:31:03,485 --> 00:31:05,325
Speaker 1: How could they do this, Why do they want this?

649
00:31:05,445 --> 00:31:06,725
Speaker 1: Or why does she want this?

650
00:31:07,445 --> 00:31:10,805
Speaker 3: So a lot of raw nerves hit during that process,

651
00:31:11,445 --> 00:31:16,445
Speaker 3: because I can understand it. People are like, this is final,

652
00:31:16,605 --> 00:31:19,925
Speaker 3: this is the last chance of whatever it is that

653
00:31:20,205 --> 00:31:23,885
Speaker 3: each party wants. But it does hurt, and that part

654
00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:27,125
Speaker 3: is I've noticed with my friends and myself, is the

655
00:31:27,165 --> 00:31:28,205
Speaker 3: most difficult part.

656
00:31:28,685 --> 00:31:29,405
Speaker 1: And you know that.

657
00:31:29,445 --> 00:31:30,605
Speaker 2: I mean the negotiating.

658
00:31:30,805 --> 00:31:33,605
Speaker 3: I think the negotiating and working through all that. Then

659
00:31:33,645 --> 00:31:36,485
Speaker 3: once you're through that, it calms down, and I tell

660
00:31:36,525 --> 00:31:37,245
Speaker 3: everyone that it does.

661
00:31:37,605 --> 00:31:39,445
Speaker 1: Just let it go. You've got to let it go.

662
00:31:39,525 --> 00:31:41,965
Speaker 1: Once that decision has been made, let it go.

663
00:31:42,605 --> 00:31:45,485
Speaker 3: You can't harbor any kind of resentment because at the

664
00:31:45,605 --> 00:31:47,405
Speaker 3: end of the day, you're going to be co parenting

665
00:31:47,565 --> 00:31:50,125
Speaker 3: and you want to keep that really coe pathetic. So

666
00:31:50,925 --> 00:31:53,325
Speaker 3: once you let that go, then the healing starts, and

667
00:31:53,405 --> 00:31:55,765
Speaker 3: that takes another couple of years. So I would say

668
00:31:55,765 --> 00:31:59,165
Speaker 3: to anyone going through this, it's a three year process.

669
00:32:00,085 --> 00:32:00,445
Speaker 1: Easy.

670
00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:06,125
Speaker 2: What about the custody part, because no parent goes into

671
00:32:06,205 --> 00:32:09,245
Speaker 2: having a child thinking I'm going to see this child

672
00:32:09,805 --> 00:32:13,125
Speaker 2: part time or half the time or two days a week. Yeah,

673
00:32:13,925 --> 00:32:16,805
Speaker 2: how did you manage the grief of that when you

674
00:32:16,885 --> 00:32:18,525
Speaker 2: had to navigate it?

675
00:32:19,605 --> 00:32:23,645
Speaker 3: You know, in a way, I tried to look at

676
00:32:23,685 --> 00:32:26,405
Speaker 3: the bright side of that, which is that when you're

677
00:32:26,525 --> 00:32:29,565
Speaker 3: at home twenty four to seven with your children or

678
00:32:29,645 --> 00:32:32,805
Speaker 3: child in my case, a lot of the time, you

679
00:32:32,845 --> 00:32:36,365
Speaker 3: can be distracted, you can be impatient, you can be

680
00:32:36,445 --> 00:32:37,125
Speaker 3: on your phone.

681
00:32:37,965 --> 00:32:40,085
Speaker 1: And I found that by having.

682
00:32:39,925 --> 00:32:42,925
Speaker 3: Kitty fifty percent of the time, I was a better

683
00:32:42,965 --> 00:32:45,885
Speaker 3: mother than I was having her one hundred percent of

684
00:32:45,925 --> 00:32:50,085
Speaker 3: the time because I appreciated and value to her presence

685
00:32:50,125 --> 00:32:53,965
Speaker 3: so much. So I made that count and I think

686
00:32:54,005 --> 00:32:54,885
Speaker 3: in a way it was.

687
00:32:54,845 --> 00:32:57,245
Speaker 1: Actually a good thing. I just tried to.

688
00:32:57,165 --> 00:32:59,965
Speaker 3: Look at it from a positive point of view. But

689
00:33:00,085 --> 00:33:02,645
Speaker 3: it was difficult on the days that I didn't have her.

690
00:33:02,685 --> 00:33:05,565
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie those days you kind of suddenly

691
00:33:05,645 --> 00:33:10,005
Speaker 3: left on your own, and I think in those moments

692
00:33:10,045 --> 00:33:13,045
Speaker 3: you can start drinking a little more. You know, you

693
00:33:13,045 --> 00:33:17,245
Speaker 3: don't have any responsibilities, you're a bit lost, and you

694
00:33:17,405 --> 00:33:23,205
Speaker 3: either embrace those moments by doing self care, maybe catching

695
00:33:23,245 --> 00:33:25,925
Speaker 3: up with friends, or you can go the other way

696
00:33:25,965 --> 00:33:27,525
Speaker 3: and you sit at home alone and then you have

697
00:33:27,565 --> 00:33:31,125
Speaker 3: a drink and you know, you watch TV. And unfortunately

698
00:33:31,165 --> 00:33:33,445
Speaker 3: I kind of went that way instead of the healthier way,

699
00:33:33,445 --> 00:33:36,125
Speaker 3: and I think that's kind of what sort of started

700
00:33:36,165 --> 00:33:39,205
Speaker 3: to just everything became really unhealthy.

701
00:33:39,245 --> 00:33:40,645
Speaker 1: So I had these two lives.

702
00:33:40,685 --> 00:33:42,485
Speaker 3: I was living like the good mom, the one that

703
00:33:42,565 --> 00:33:45,365
Speaker 3: was present and happy and taking her out and doing things,

704
00:33:45,445 --> 00:33:47,005
Speaker 3: and then there was the other side that was a

705
00:33:47,045 --> 00:33:49,205
Speaker 3: little bit dark and a little bit lonely.

706
00:33:50,165 --> 00:33:51,965
Speaker 2: I remember my husband and Nice put up when our

707
00:33:52,045 --> 00:33:54,525
Speaker 2: son was about two or three for a few years,

708
00:33:54,565 --> 00:33:58,725
Speaker 2: and I remember weekends that I didn't have him were

709
00:33:58,765 --> 00:34:02,765
Speaker 2: weird because it wasn't like being away from your child.

710
00:34:02,765 --> 00:34:05,125
Speaker 2: If you were on holidays or had to travel for work,

711
00:34:05,165 --> 00:34:07,685
Speaker 2: that's very different. But when you are in your house

712
00:34:07,765 --> 00:34:12,325
Speaker 2: and in your city without your child, it just felt odd.

713
00:34:12,445 --> 00:34:16,925
Speaker 2: It's like a deep sorrow and sadness that I had

714
00:34:16,925 --> 00:34:19,325
Speaker 2: to get used to in past, but it's like I'm

715
00:34:19,365 --> 00:34:21,845
Speaker 2: a mother who's not with her child. It felt, Yeah,

716
00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:24,685
Speaker 2: it was weird. It's really really difficult to get cast is.

717
00:34:24,885 --> 00:34:28,085
Speaker 3: Yes, it does pass, you do become comfortable with it

718
00:34:28,165 --> 00:34:31,125
Speaker 3: and accepting of it. Kitty said to me the other day,

719
00:34:31,245 --> 00:34:33,525
Speaker 3: she said, I'm so glad you and Dad aren't together.

720
00:34:34,085 --> 00:34:35,965
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, why why is that? Because

721
00:34:35,965 --> 00:34:38,085
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like we were fighting a load

722
00:34:38,245 --> 00:34:39,325
Speaker 3: in front of her or anything.

723
00:34:39,805 --> 00:34:42,045
Speaker 1: She just said, I just get the best of both worlds.

724
00:34:42,085 --> 00:34:44,125
Speaker 3: I get all of your time when I'm with you,

725
00:34:44,205 --> 00:34:45,725
Speaker 3: and then I get all of Dad's time. And I

726
00:34:45,765 --> 00:34:47,845
Speaker 3: have two bedrooms and I have two of this, and

727
00:34:48,245 --> 00:34:51,085
Speaker 3: you know, I have these two great lives almost And

728
00:34:51,165 --> 00:34:55,125
Speaker 3: she thankfully came out the other side really kind of

729
00:34:55,205 --> 00:34:59,165
Speaker 3: well adjusted and got through it okay. But it was

730
00:34:59,245 --> 00:35:02,165
Speaker 3: really hard during those times, like adjusting to the alone

731
00:35:02,165 --> 00:35:05,445
Speaker 3: time and not being there because you're right, it's so different.

732
00:35:05,445 --> 00:35:07,525
Speaker 3: It's kind of like when you have that temporary breakup

733
00:35:07,565 --> 00:35:10,285
Speaker 3: with a boyfriend and they're not the on a Saturday night,

734
00:35:10,405 --> 00:35:12,885
Speaker 3: you feel so depressed, but then if they've gone away

735
00:35:12,925 --> 00:35:15,325
Speaker 3: with the boys for a week, you're like, oh, brilliant,

736
00:35:15,405 --> 00:35:17,685
Speaker 3: I've got all this alone time. You know, it's just

737
00:35:17,725 --> 00:35:19,605
Speaker 3: a heaviness that sort of sits there with you.

738
00:35:20,205 --> 00:35:21,885
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're a control freak. Are you

739
00:35:21,925 --> 00:35:23,725
Speaker 2: a control freeking?

740
00:35:24,165 --> 00:35:25,045
Speaker 1: No? Not at all.

741
00:35:25,245 --> 00:35:28,165
Speaker 2: Okay, So who carried you? Know? When you were with Lee?

742
00:35:28,245 --> 00:35:31,525
Speaker 2: Who carried like most of the mental load? Because in

743
00:35:31,565 --> 00:35:35,365
Speaker 2: my marriage it's for all the house stuff and finances

744
00:35:35,365 --> 00:35:38,965
Speaker 2: and everything. It's my husband for the emotional state of

745
00:35:39,005 --> 00:35:42,485
Speaker 2: the kids. It's kind of me. But what was the

746
00:35:42,525 --> 00:35:45,485
Speaker 2: breakdown like in your marriage and when it ended, what

747
00:35:45,605 --> 00:35:47,965
Speaker 2: did you have to pick up in terms of mental load?

748
00:35:48,285 --> 00:35:51,525
Speaker 3: I would say that in terms of the household running

749
00:35:51,525 --> 00:35:54,565
Speaker 3: of the household stuff was me and I would say

750
00:35:54,605 --> 00:35:58,325
Speaker 3: that we were probably an equal mix with the emotional load.

751
00:35:58,565 --> 00:36:02,845
Speaker 3: I mean, Lee is the most wonderful dad. He really

752
00:36:02,925 --> 00:36:06,285
Speaker 3: is very hands on and present. And you know, I'm

753
00:36:06,325 --> 00:36:11,725
Speaker 3: so lucky that I married somebody like that and went

754
00:36:11,765 --> 00:36:14,965
Speaker 3: through a divorce with somebody like that, because he never

755
00:36:15,125 --> 00:36:17,045
Speaker 3: tried to make it difficult for me.

756
00:36:17,725 --> 00:36:20,045
Speaker 1: He was never spiteful. I was never spiteful.

757
00:36:20,445 --> 00:36:24,325
Speaker 3: I just watch other people go through a bitter divorce

758
00:36:24,405 --> 00:36:26,925
Speaker 3: and oh my god, it makes it that much harder.

759
00:36:27,085 --> 00:36:28,045
Speaker 2: Like life is.

760
00:36:27,965 --> 00:36:32,205
Speaker 3: Incredibly difficult when you're involved in that kind of toxic relationship.

761
00:36:31,645 --> 00:36:33,285
Speaker 2: When kids are weaponized in custody.

762
00:36:34,045 --> 00:36:35,565
Speaker 1: That was never the case with us.

763
00:36:36,205 --> 00:36:38,445
Speaker 2: And so what did you have to learn to do

764
00:36:38,845 --> 00:36:40,085
Speaker 2: that you didn't do before?

765
00:36:41,165 --> 00:36:44,885
Speaker 1: I just had to call a handyman. What did I

766
00:36:44,925 --> 00:36:46,485
Speaker 1: have to do? What else did I have to do?

767
00:36:47,205 --> 00:36:49,805
Speaker 3: I didn't feel that there was that much of a change,

768
00:36:49,805 --> 00:36:52,245
Speaker 3: to be honest, in that period. It was more just

769
00:36:52,325 --> 00:36:56,205
Speaker 3: the little things, you know, those little things where you go, hey,

770
00:36:56,245 --> 00:36:56,605
Speaker 3: can you.

771
00:36:56,605 --> 00:36:57,245
Speaker 1: Deal with this?

772
00:36:57,965 --> 00:37:00,965
Speaker 3: Even just little decisions you make, Like I remember one

773
00:37:00,965 --> 00:37:03,245
Speaker 3: of the first nights I was in that Bondaie apartment

774
00:37:03,245 --> 00:37:05,565
Speaker 3: that I was renting and Kitty was there and there

775
00:37:05,605 --> 00:37:08,885
Speaker 3: was a huge humpsman in the house. Now, if Lee

776
00:37:08,965 --> 00:37:11,005
Speaker 3: were there, I would just spray the shit out of

777
00:37:11,005 --> 00:37:13,765
Speaker 3: that thing until it was white and it's done. But

778
00:37:13,845 --> 00:37:16,805
Speaker 3: for some reason, because it was just me on my

779
00:37:16,885 --> 00:37:20,365
Speaker 3: own and Kiddy, I had this conscience of I can't

780
00:37:20,365 --> 00:37:22,485
Speaker 3: do that to a spider. This poor thing is living

781
00:37:22,525 --> 00:37:25,525
Speaker 3: its life and what's it done wrong? And I just

782
00:37:25,565 --> 00:37:27,285
Speaker 3: had this mental shift of like, no, I'm not going

783
00:37:27,365 --> 00:37:29,445
Speaker 3: to do that. So I got a cup and a

784
00:37:29,445 --> 00:37:31,765
Speaker 3: piece of paper and I actually did it. I did it,

785
00:37:31,805 --> 00:37:34,405
Speaker 3: and I wasn't too afraid because I think something kicks in.

786
00:37:34,485 --> 00:37:35,965
Speaker 3: It's like, no, no, I have to take care of

787
00:37:36,005 --> 00:37:37,965
Speaker 3: this situation because it's just.

788
00:37:37,965 --> 00:37:39,005
Speaker 1: Me now on my own.

789
00:37:39,205 --> 00:37:42,205
Speaker 3: And that's probably a bad analogy, but I just remember

790
00:37:42,245 --> 00:37:44,205
Speaker 3: thinking I would never have done this if I was

791
00:37:44,325 --> 00:37:45,805
Speaker 3: at home with they would have said, either you get

792
00:37:45,885 --> 00:37:47,165
Speaker 3: rid of it or I'm going to spray it.

793
00:37:47,605 --> 00:37:49,525
Speaker 1: I think you just have to kick into gear where

794
00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:50,005
Speaker 1: you know.

795
00:37:50,085 --> 00:37:52,605
Speaker 3: It's just you can't always rely on somebody else in

796
00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:54,045
Speaker 3: the house that's going to take care of things.

797
00:37:54,085 --> 00:37:56,085
Speaker 1: You're the adult. You're the one and only adult.

798
00:37:55,765 --> 00:37:56,245
Speaker 2: Of the adult.

799
00:37:56,245 --> 00:37:58,405
Speaker 1: It's so true. No one to delegate, No, no one

800
00:37:58,405 --> 00:37:59,005
Speaker 1: to delegate.

801
00:37:59,125 --> 00:38:02,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, co parenting can be hard, even when you're living

802
00:38:02,805 --> 00:38:04,925
Speaker 2: in the same house and you're married. Not everyone has

803
00:38:04,965 --> 00:38:08,725
Speaker 2: the same views on how to parent or ideas around

804
00:38:08,845 --> 00:38:13,245
Speaker 2: boundary or screen time. How have you navigated it and

805
00:38:13,285 --> 00:38:16,685
Speaker 2: what have you learned about co parenting after divorce?

806
00:38:17,165 --> 00:38:20,005
Speaker 1: The communication has to be there, but we're not going

807
00:38:20,085 --> 00:38:20,365
Speaker 1: to lie.

808
00:38:20,365 --> 00:38:24,925
Speaker 3: It's very, very difficult to be consistent when there are

809
00:38:24,925 --> 00:38:29,805
Speaker 3: two different households. So Whilstly and I might agree that okay,

810
00:38:30,005 --> 00:38:32,445
Speaker 3: we're not happy that she's done this, so we've both

811
00:38:32,485 --> 00:38:35,085
Speaker 3: agreed now on the phone that there's going to be

812
00:38:35,125 --> 00:38:39,845
Speaker 3: only an hour of screen time max. And then then

813
00:38:39,925 --> 00:38:42,165
Speaker 3: you find out each one of us hasn't done that.

814
00:38:42,725 --> 00:38:45,365
Speaker 3: We've both relaxed because we think the other ones probably

815
00:38:45,405 --> 00:38:46,965
Speaker 3: relaxed it too, And no one wants to be.

816
00:38:46,965 --> 00:38:47,645
Speaker 1: The bad parent.

817
00:38:48,045 --> 00:38:50,205
Speaker 3: So it's just about getting on the same page and

818
00:38:50,245 --> 00:38:52,765
Speaker 3: sticking to it. And that's actually really hard to do

819
00:38:53,525 --> 00:38:57,245
Speaker 3: when you're not living in the same house because you

820
00:38:57,325 --> 00:38:59,805
Speaker 3: don't actually know what's going on over there and he

821
00:38:59,845 --> 00:39:01,285
Speaker 3: doesn't know what's going on over here.

822
00:39:01,445 --> 00:39:02,805
Speaker 2: So and kids are smart.

823
00:39:02,885 --> 00:39:06,285
Speaker 3: They're smart, you know, they're very smart, especially when it

824
00:39:06,325 --> 00:39:07,405
Speaker 3: comes to screen time.

825
00:39:07,445 --> 00:39:10,365
Speaker 1: They're driving force. So yes, I will admit that things

826
00:39:10,405 --> 00:39:11,445
Speaker 1: like that can be tricky.

827
00:39:12,165 --> 00:39:14,965
Speaker 2: I remember when you signed up with weight Watchers and

828
00:39:15,045 --> 00:39:16,925
Speaker 2: there was lots of people that were like, oh, it's

829
00:39:16,965 --> 00:39:20,845
Speaker 2: so bad, and why is she losing weight? And bad

830
00:39:20,965 --> 00:39:22,765
Speaker 2: role model and all of those things. And I remember

831
00:39:22,805 --> 00:39:26,485
Speaker 2: reaching out to you and saying, I hope you're doing okay,

832
00:39:26,605 --> 00:39:28,805
Speaker 2: Like you should be able to do whatever you want

833
00:39:28,845 --> 00:39:29,005
Speaker 2: to do.

834
00:39:29,125 --> 00:39:30,565
Speaker 1: Thank you, And I appreciated that.

835
00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:32,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, if a woman wants to lose weight, she should

836
00:39:32,805 --> 00:39:36,045
Speaker 2: be allowed to lose weight. Yeah, once you sign a

837
00:39:36,045 --> 00:39:39,605
Speaker 2: contract like that and you're contractually obliged to talk about

838
00:39:39,605 --> 00:39:43,285
Speaker 2: your weight, and then you decide to end that contract.

839
00:39:44,605 --> 00:39:50,965
Speaker 2: How do you redraw the boundaries about what you are

840
00:39:50,965 --> 00:39:53,045
Speaker 2: prepared to talk about in public.

841
00:39:53,605 --> 00:39:55,725
Speaker 3: The thing is is, I didn't mind talking about my

842
00:39:55,845 --> 00:39:58,765
Speaker 3: weight loss over that journey, but I think when the

843
00:39:58,805 --> 00:40:03,245
Speaker 3: weight loss became quick and this year, you noticed a

844
00:40:03,365 --> 00:40:06,725
Speaker 3: huge difference from last year to this year, and I

845
00:40:06,765 --> 00:40:09,165
Speaker 3: think there became this real interest.

846
00:40:09,445 --> 00:40:10,325
Speaker 1: They were obsessed.

847
00:40:10,325 --> 00:40:12,445
Speaker 3: The media is all they talked about it, and I

848
00:40:12,445 --> 00:40:14,525
Speaker 3: don't think I was prepared for that side of it.

849
00:40:14,765 --> 00:40:16,885
Speaker 3: And it doesn't bother me that much, honestly, it doesn't.

850
00:40:16,925 --> 00:40:18,485
Speaker 3: I mean, I think other people are more up in

851
00:40:18,605 --> 00:40:19,805
Speaker 3: arms about it than I am, but.

852
00:40:20,645 --> 00:40:21,165
Speaker 2: In what way?

853
00:40:21,765 --> 00:40:24,285
Speaker 3: I think they're up in arms because every single headline

854
00:40:24,365 --> 00:40:27,125
Speaker 3: has to mention how much weight I've lost, every one

855
00:40:27,165 --> 00:40:27,485
Speaker 3: of them.

856
00:40:27,525 --> 00:40:28,965
Speaker 1: Like I'm just referring to Daily Mail.

857
00:40:28,965 --> 00:40:31,765
Speaker 2: Actually it's you talk to Christy Swan about that same deal.

858
00:40:31,845 --> 00:40:36,045
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And you just can't escape it. But that's fine, Like,

859
00:40:36,125 --> 00:40:37,645
Speaker 3: you know, it is what it is. I don't really

860
00:40:37,685 --> 00:40:40,285
Speaker 3: care what they're writing, but I feel like it has

861
00:40:40,325 --> 00:40:43,125
Speaker 3: gone on a bit long, so I try not to

862
00:40:43,645 --> 00:40:46,885
Speaker 3: feed into it by giving any new information, because the

863
00:40:46,925 --> 00:40:50,125
Speaker 3: minute they have one little new bit of information, then

864
00:40:50,805 --> 00:40:54,085
Speaker 3: it just keeps fueling it. So yeah, I just tried

865
00:40:54,125 --> 00:40:56,765
Speaker 3: to really kind of pull back on any talk of

866
00:40:56,805 --> 00:41:00,005
Speaker 3: that because I don't think we should have that much

867
00:41:00,005 --> 00:41:02,285
Speaker 3: of an obsession about weight loss. Like you say, it's

868
00:41:02,325 --> 00:41:04,605
Speaker 3: okay if you want to lose weight, weight loss can

869
00:41:04,645 --> 00:41:07,365
Speaker 3: be so great for your health and the knock on

870
00:41:07,405 --> 00:41:10,005
Speaker 3: effect that it has. I don't think it's a bad

871
00:41:10,005 --> 00:41:13,045
Speaker 3: thing if someone wants to lose weight, But I don't

872
00:41:13,085 --> 00:41:15,565
Speaker 3: want the message to be when you lose weight suddenly,

873
00:41:15,605 --> 00:41:17,925
Speaker 3: oh you get talked about and everyone loves you. You know.

874
00:41:18,285 --> 00:41:22,085
Speaker 3: That's the part that is tricky and doesn't necessarily send

875
00:41:22,085 --> 00:41:23,125
Speaker 3: out a great message.

876
00:41:23,485 --> 00:41:26,365
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just try not to talk about it

877
00:41:26,645 --> 00:41:27,445
Speaker 1: that much on now.

878
00:41:27,725 --> 00:41:30,645
Speaker 2: We've had interesting conversations on me out loud about this

879
00:41:30,805 --> 00:41:35,925
Speaker 2: in terms of how much do famous people owe anyone

880
00:41:36,125 --> 00:41:40,285
Speaker 2: when it comes to private matters, either how they lost weight,

881
00:41:40,525 --> 00:41:44,205
Speaker 2: what surgery they had, how they got pregnant, whether they

882
00:41:44,245 --> 00:41:47,565
Speaker 2: had fertility treatment. And I don't know where I've landed

883
00:41:47,565 --> 00:41:47,805
Speaker 2: on that.

884
00:41:47,885 --> 00:41:48,765
Speaker 1: I don't know either.

885
00:41:49,205 --> 00:41:52,365
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about that lately too, Okay, So let's

886
00:41:52,365 --> 00:41:53,925
Speaker 3: say someone's had plastic surgery.

887
00:41:54,005 --> 00:41:57,165
Speaker 1: Let's say a certain celebrity.

888
00:41:56,765 --> 00:42:00,205
Speaker 3: Is in her fifties and she looks fabulous, and we

889
00:42:00,245 --> 00:42:02,925
Speaker 3: look at her and go, well, why don't I look

890
00:42:03,005 --> 00:42:07,565
Speaker 3: like that? Does she have an obligation to let us know? Hey, guys,

891
00:42:07,605 --> 00:42:09,565
Speaker 3: it's not natural. Don't feel bad about yourself. I got

892
00:42:09,565 --> 00:42:11,525
Speaker 3: work done, I have money, I was able to access

893
00:42:11,525 --> 00:42:12,525
Speaker 3: the best surgeon, and this.

894
00:42:12,445 --> 00:42:13,205
Speaker 1: Is why I look like that.

895
00:42:13,925 --> 00:42:16,045
Speaker 3: But we're asking them to do that to make us

896
00:42:16,045 --> 00:42:18,445
Speaker 3: feel better. And I don't think they have an obligation

897
00:42:18,565 --> 00:42:21,285
Speaker 3: to reveal things medically by any means. And I think

898
00:42:21,285 --> 00:42:23,725
Speaker 3: some of that can be really private, especially when it

899
00:42:23,765 --> 00:42:27,045
Speaker 3: comes to fertility pregnancy surgeries.

900
00:42:27,365 --> 00:42:28,245
Speaker 1: But then I think.

901
00:42:28,085 --> 00:42:30,125
Speaker 3: It's up to the individual if they want to share

902
00:42:30,165 --> 00:42:32,805
Speaker 3: that because a lot of the time they might have

903
00:42:32,885 --> 00:42:35,565
Speaker 3: this unfair advantage because of the money that they have

904
00:42:36,405 --> 00:42:39,485
Speaker 3: to not make others feel inadequate.

905
00:42:38,925 --> 00:42:41,925
Speaker 1: Because hey, why don't I look like you? But I

906
00:42:42,005 --> 00:42:42,445
Speaker 1: don't know.

907
00:42:42,565 --> 00:42:45,805
Speaker 3: I think that there's way too much invasion when it

908
00:42:45,845 --> 00:42:49,045
Speaker 3: comes to celebrities. It's like we all think we have

909
00:42:49,085 --> 00:42:52,325
Speaker 3: a right to every single piece of information that exists

910
00:42:52,325 --> 00:42:55,605
Speaker 3: about them, and we don't they're people too.

911
00:42:55,605 --> 00:42:58,045
Speaker 1: So I think they have the right to privacy.

912
00:42:58,525 --> 00:43:01,205
Speaker 3: But I think you choose to go into this industry,

913
00:43:01,285 --> 00:43:03,885
Speaker 3: you know what it's about. You think fame is this

914
00:43:04,045 --> 00:43:06,485
Speaker 3: fabulous thing and you chase after it, but then you

915
00:43:06,525 --> 00:43:08,845
Speaker 3: can't then get there and go I want to keep

916
00:43:08,845 --> 00:43:11,165
Speaker 3: the fame and all the perks, but hey, leave me alone.

917
00:43:11,205 --> 00:43:13,405
Speaker 3: Like you do have to accept that there is the

918
00:43:13,405 --> 00:43:16,205
Speaker 3: good and the bad, and I accept that with my job.

919
00:43:16,285 --> 00:43:18,405
Speaker 3: I know that there is ship parts to it, and

920
00:43:18,925 --> 00:43:23,765
Speaker 3: sometimes it can feel very intrusive and you feel so

921
00:43:24,005 --> 00:43:27,925
Speaker 3: vulnerable when that happens. It's horrible, but you can't really

922
00:43:27,925 --> 00:43:30,965
Speaker 3: complain about it because if you don't like it, then

923
00:43:31,405 --> 00:43:33,765
Speaker 3: you can do another job. You know, you can back

924
00:43:33,805 --> 00:43:34,685
Speaker 3: out of that industry.

925
00:43:34,885 --> 00:43:39,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, you had someone photographing inside your house.

926
00:43:39,405 --> 00:43:42,005
Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's legal. It can't be legal.

927
00:43:42,165 --> 00:43:44,325
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you process that?

928
00:43:44,405 --> 00:43:46,565
Speaker 2: And what do you do? Because you know, here's a

929
00:43:46,605 --> 00:43:50,925
Speaker 2: tiny violin for all the celebrities. Yeah, but that's outrageous.

930
00:43:51,365 --> 00:43:54,605
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was awful, I gotta say, because the reason

931
00:43:54,645 --> 00:43:59,365
Speaker 3: it's so awful is because you're already in a vulnerable

932
00:43:59,405 --> 00:44:02,845
Speaker 3: place in your life, because you might be seeing someone

933
00:44:03,005 --> 00:44:06,965
Speaker 3: or and then you've got the added pressure of knowing

934
00:44:07,005 --> 00:44:10,485
Speaker 3: that someone that night was as the road, lying in

935
00:44:10,525 --> 00:44:13,445
Speaker 3: the grass, spying on you the whole time. And it's

936
00:44:13,565 --> 00:44:17,365
Speaker 3: just that creepiness of oh fuck, sorry, excuse my language.

937
00:44:17,685 --> 00:44:20,405
Speaker 2: What else it's so used to?

938
00:44:21,005 --> 00:44:21,885
Speaker 1: Is there a sense of him?

939
00:44:22,005 --> 00:44:26,005
Speaker 3: You can even yeah, really, I have been known to

940
00:44:26,005 --> 00:44:27,565
Speaker 3: pull it out every now and exact.

941
00:44:27,645 --> 00:44:29,965
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites.

942
00:44:30,725 --> 00:44:33,725
Speaker 3: It's more just the thought of, oh God, what else

943
00:44:33,805 --> 00:44:35,325
Speaker 3: did I do that.

944
00:44:35,125 --> 00:44:36,365
Speaker 1: That man was watching?

945
00:44:37,165 --> 00:44:40,365
Speaker 3: So it feels super vulnerable when something like that happens.

946
00:44:40,725 --> 00:44:43,245
Speaker 3: You know, if you're walking down the street, fine whatever,

947
00:44:43,365 --> 00:44:46,885
Speaker 3: that's okay, but when they're spying on you in your home.

948
00:44:46,925 --> 00:44:49,965
Speaker 3: And Kitty left the other night. Actually Lee had picked

949
00:44:49,965 --> 00:44:52,525
Speaker 3: her up. It was a week night, and you know,

950
00:44:52,605 --> 00:44:54,685
Speaker 3: my place is a little bit of a fishbowl and

951
00:44:54,725 --> 00:44:57,085
Speaker 3: it's on the beach, so yes, there are windows there

952
00:44:57,085 --> 00:44:59,525
Speaker 3: and you can see in so that sucks that part,

953
00:44:59,565 --> 00:45:01,365
Speaker 3: but hey, you've got to sacrifice one for the other.

954
00:45:02,165 --> 00:45:05,885
Speaker 3: And she called me like two minutes after she drove off,

955
00:45:05,925 --> 00:45:09,885
Speaker 3: and she said, Mom, there's a man lying in the

956
00:45:09,925 --> 00:45:13,125
Speaker 3: park opposite watching into the house, which.

957
00:45:12,965 --> 00:45:15,725
Speaker 2: Would be legal if he then wasn't going to sell

958
00:45:15,805 --> 00:45:19,285
Speaker 2: the photos and make money from stealing your privacy.

959
00:45:19,445 --> 00:45:22,165
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an odd position to be put in, but

960
00:45:22,885 --> 00:45:24,605
Speaker 3: there's just so much great.

961
00:45:24,485 --> 00:45:27,125
Speaker 2: I'm say more angry than you. Yeah, I'm not that angry.

962
00:45:27,205 --> 00:45:29,885
Speaker 2: I just find I am why aren't you?

963
00:45:29,925 --> 00:45:31,005
Speaker 1: Because I just know.

964
00:45:31,085 --> 00:45:33,805
Speaker 3: That this is what comes with that, and I accept

965
00:45:33,885 --> 00:45:35,125
Speaker 3: that that's what comes.

966
00:45:34,845 --> 00:45:35,765
Speaker 2: With dragmatic about it.

967
00:45:35,805 --> 00:45:37,885
Speaker 1: I'm pragmatic about it, but it's not to say.

968
00:45:37,885 --> 00:45:41,805
Speaker 3: You have moments where you feel really exposed and open

969
00:45:41,925 --> 00:45:46,125
Speaker 3: to everyone's views on what you're doing on your balcony

970
00:45:46,165 --> 00:45:48,965
Speaker 3: and you just feel vulnerable. But it's part of the job.

971
00:45:49,085 --> 00:45:52,285
Speaker 3: So that part is not fun, but most of it is.

972
00:45:52,485 --> 00:45:55,365
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have a parasocial relationship with you. Before that

973
00:45:55,405 --> 00:45:59,125
Speaker 2: word even existed, and before we had social media and influencers,

974
00:45:59,165 --> 00:46:02,525
Speaker 2: people thought they knew you, and they think they know you,

975
00:46:02,805 --> 00:46:05,485
Speaker 2: and in some ways maybe they do know you. You've

976
00:46:05,485 --> 00:46:10,805
Speaker 2: been in areas for decades talking spontaneously about your life.

977
00:46:11,405 --> 00:46:15,565
Speaker 2: So how do you draw those boundaries? Like everyone's lived through,

978
00:46:16,125 --> 00:46:19,445
Speaker 2: you know, marriage to Lee, the baby and kitty and

979
00:46:19,525 --> 00:46:22,445
Speaker 2: Kitty growing up and all of those things, So how

980
00:46:22,445 --> 00:46:25,085
Speaker 2: do you say, and are there areas where you're just like, right,

981
00:46:25,405 --> 00:46:28,045
Speaker 2: I'm going to draw some boundaries around certain things. I'm

982
00:46:28,085 --> 00:46:29,445
Speaker 2: not going to talk about them on air. I'm not

983
00:46:29,485 --> 00:46:30,765
Speaker 2: going to talk about them publicly.

984
00:46:31,045 --> 00:46:31,245
Speaker 1: Yep.

985
00:46:31,645 --> 00:46:34,285
Speaker 3: Most of the time, the boundaries I have in place

986
00:46:34,325 --> 00:46:39,605
Speaker 3: are am I speaking on behalf of two people here? So,

987
00:46:39,885 --> 00:46:43,685
Speaker 3: for instance, the marriage to Lee, I would never say

988
00:46:43,765 --> 00:46:47,765
Speaker 3: certain things because I shouldn't have the power to say

989
00:46:48,285 --> 00:46:52,725
Speaker 3: something really personal that affects someone else as well. It's his, yeah, exactly.

990
00:46:52,885 --> 00:46:56,205
Speaker 3: So I'm really mindful of that. The people in my life,

991
00:46:56,205 --> 00:46:58,165
Speaker 3: I know what I can and can't say. I also

992
00:46:58,245 --> 00:47:01,165
Speaker 3: know with Kitty the certain things that I would never

993
00:47:01,205 --> 00:47:03,485
Speaker 3: say on air, and they know that what she would

994
00:47:03,485 --> 00:47:06,005
Speaker 3: be okay with me saying. And that goes the same

995
00:47:06,045 --> 00:47:08,565
Speaker 3: with any kind of relationship. I think that there's two

996
00:47:08,605 --> 00:47:11,885
Speaker 3: people involved. I'm very mindful of that. Anything to do

997
00:47:11,965 --> 00:47:14,525
Speaker 3: with me, I'm pretty okay with. You know, there are

998
00:47:14,525 --> 00:47:16,605
Speaker 3: certain things you may not want to share that involve

999
00:47:16,685 --> 00:47:19,165
Speaker 3: just you, and you know what those boundaries are. But

1000
00:47:19,205 --> 00:47:22,285
Speaker 3: I think most of the stuff I'm pretty good with sharing.

1001
00:47:22,325 --> 00:47:24,325
Speaker 3: I've been so used to it, and I know that

1002
00:47:25,085 --> 00:47:27,725
Speaker 3: sometimes people find a lot of comfort in that relating

1003
00:47:27,805 --> 00:47:31,485
Speaker 3: to something so personal, So I'm aware that it makes

1004
00:47:31,525 --> 00:47:35,365
Speaker 3: someone else feel better that you can share something vulnerable.

1005
00:47:36,005 --> 00:47:38,885
Speaker 1: I do like that part of the job because.

1006
00:47:38,565 --> 00:47:40,725
Speaker 3: It brings me closer to the audience and I get

1007
00:47:40,725 --> 00:47:44,645
Speaker 3: that kind of feedback from so many particularly women who

1008
00:47:44,845 --> 00:47:48,005
Speaker 3: might have been through similar things to myself, and I

1009
00:47:48,045 --> 00:47:49,965
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just nice to hear when someone else

1010
00:47:50,045 --> 00:47:50,365
Speaker 3: is going.

1011
00:47:50,245 --> 00:47:51,245
Speaker 1: Through what you're going through.

1012
00:47:51,285 --> 00:47:53,445
Speaker 3: So I do like to be able to share a lot,

1013
00:47:53,925 --> 00:47:55,765
Speaker 3: but there's always going to be certain things that are

1014
00:47:55,765 --> 00:47:56,285
Speaker 3: off limits.

1015
00:47:56,365 --> 00:48:01,325
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was certainly not the end of my conversation

1016
00:48:01,725 --> 00:48:05,485
Speaker 2: with Jackie O because I had to ask about something

1017
00:48:05,485 --> 00:48:08,485
Speaker 2: that makes her really uncomfortable, and she was such a

1018
00:48:08,565 --> 00:48:12,245
Speaker 2: good sport it. I asked her about money and what

1019
00:48:12,285 --> 00:48:13,405
Speaker 2: she does with all of it.

1020
00:48:14,085 --> 00:48:15,045
Speaker 1: Here's a little taste.

1021
00:48:15,285 --> 00:48:19,925
Speaker 3: It's just difficult mea. It's very difficult in many aspects.

1022
00:48:20,925 --> 00:48:24,765
Speaker 3: Money is so great on the one hand because it

1023
00:48:24,765 --> 00:48:28,525
Speaker 3: gives you this beautiful, comfortable life and you don't.

1024
00:48:28,325 --> 00:48:30,125
Speaker 1: Have those worries and pressures.

1025
00:48:30,285 --> 00:48:33,165
Speaker 3: And then on the other hand, sometimes you just want

1026
00:48:33,165 --> 00:48:36,685
Speaker 3: to be rid of it as well, because it changes dynamics.

1027
00:48:36,885 --> 00:48:41,285
Speaker 3: When you're talking about male female dynamics in relationships. There's

1028
00:48:41,405 --> 00:48:44,205
Speaker 3: no question that that plays a big part in that,

1029
00:48:44,405 --> 00:48:46,165
Speaker 3: and that's when I hate it.

1030
00:48:46,525 --> 00:48:49,685
Speaker 2: I also asked her about dating, because she didn't want

1031
00:48:49,725 --> 00:48:53,445
Speaker 2: to date straight after she got divorced because her daughter

1032
00:48:53,485 --> 00:48:55,725
Speaker 2: was still coming to terms with it, and she was

1033
00:48:55,725 --> 00:48:58,445
Speaker 2: still coming to terms with it. But now she is

1034
00:48:58,565 --> 00:49:01,645
Speaker 2: diving in and she is even on the apps. She

1035
00:49:01,725 --> 00:49:04,405
Speaker 2: explained a few things to me about the apps and

1036
00:49:04,445 --> 00:49:07,045
Speaker 2: how people really know that it's her to hear the

1037
00:49:07,045 --> 00:49:09,965
Speaker 2: second part of my conversation with Jackie to the link

1038
00:49:10,205 --> 00:49:13,205
Speaker 2: in our show notes. The executive producer of No Filter

1039
00:49:13,525 --> 00:49:17,885
Speaker 2: is Kimberly Bradish, with sound production by Madeline Gioanno. I'm

1040
00:49:17,885 --> 00:49:20,605
Speaker 2: mea Friedman and thank you for having me in your ears.