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Speaker 1: I think it's important for us to remember that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things we're starting to see men struggle

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Speaker 1: with may have been there all along in some form,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that we're starting to see them may

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Speaker 1: be a sign that we're starting to break through some

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Speaker 1: of those traditionally very powerful ways that the world has

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Speaker 1: said this is masculine, this is feminine, because actually, at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's biologically often not what

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Speaker 1: we are and who we are. That's what society tells

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Speaker 1: us we are, and we can change that narrative, and

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Speaker 1: I think for men's health, we need to be changing

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Speaker 1: that narrative.

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Speaker 2: These are the yays of our lives. Busy and happy

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Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 2: rarely we play, and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives they adore,

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Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst days

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Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your Yeay. Sarah

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Speaker 2: Davidson or A spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur

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Speaker 2: who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha

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Speaker 2: Maiden and matcha Milkbar. CZA is a series of conversations

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Speaker 2: on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge,

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Speaker 2: joy and fulfillment along the way. Welcome back to yeas

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Speaker 2: of our lives, Lovelyyighborhood. This one is a bit of

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Speaker 2: a cracker in a CZA. First, I didn't write any

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Speaker 2: notes to prepare for this episode or edit any of

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Speaker 2: it at all, which has never happened before, which is

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Speaker 2: both terrifying and liberating as well as a testament to

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Speaker 2: what a great conversationalist our guest for the episode truly is.

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by absolute legend doctor Kieran Kennedy, a medical doctor, psychiatrist,

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Speaker 2: and mental health advocate who first appeared on the show

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Speaker 2: back in episode ninety two, which I highly recommend you

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Speaker 2: go back and have a listen to for context. It

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Speaker 2: is in fact the one year anniversary this week of

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Speaker 2: our chat for last year's Men's Health Week, and I

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Speaker 2: thought who better to join for a reunion to discuss

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Speaker 2: this year's Men's Health Week then Kieran. Kieran is a

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Speaker 2: dedicated advocate for redefining societal ideas about masculinity, encouraging open

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Speaker 2: conversations about mental health and well being, and has been

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Speaker 2: a shining light for many of us through the challenges

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Speaker 2: of Victoria's continued lockdowns. He also expertly weaves in amongst

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Speaker 2: his technical scientific wisdom, a wicked sense of humor, passion

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Speaker 2: for Calf Club which I'll never let him live down

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Speaker 2: and which you'll hear all about, and love for seizing

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Speaker 2: his yea, making this chat an absolute hoot. We really

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Speaker 2: only met properly during last year's episode and haven't known

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Speaker 2: each other that long, but he's one of those people

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Speaker 2: you instantly trust and can have the most enjoyably tangential

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Speaker 2: conversations with. I had also been filming for over fifteen

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Speaker 2: hours when we recorded this one, so do please excuse

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Speaker 2: my delirium. I usually don't let my crazy out of

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Speaker 2: the bag that much, but hopefully you get a few

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Speaker 2: laughs out of it, as well as a more serious

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Speaker 2: practical insights on managing your mental health. Doctor Kieran Kennedy

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Speaker 2: and Calf Club member extraordinaire, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited, Sira, Thank you for having me, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having Calf Club, having Lammy it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be back. What can I say? Oh my god?

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Speaker 2: Okay, firstly, everyone, you know I'm usually pretty planned out

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Speaker 2: and researched. I have done zero planning. We have both

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Speaker 2: been going for like twelve hour days and this is

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Speaker 2: going to be an absolute joy. I can already feel it.

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Speaker 2: I'm so delirious.

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Speaker 1: I feel humbled actually that you that you feel safe

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Speaker 1: enough with me, mate to let me on the Delirious podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is I'm touched.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we went for a walk recently, and not

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Speaker 2: even in a delirious state, like completely well rested, we

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Speaker 2: ended up talking about UFOs and questions the universe. There's

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Speaker 2: nothing I could say to you that would surprise you.

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Speaker 2: I don't feel so it's always a safe place.

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Speaker 1: Now. Remember one thing you said to me on that

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Speaker 1: walk was surprising, the Yosemite Vigimi rabbit hole. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna lie. I'm a psych I've heard a lot of stuff,

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Speaker 1: but that that kind of blew the little peanut brain

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Speaker 1: a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I have actually blown the mind of a doctor of psychiatry. Wow,

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Speaker 2: wow done. Wow. So context there are so many things

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Speaker 2: we need to provide context for here. Firstly, during our walk.

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Speaker 2: We were really just off on twenty five million tangents,

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Speaker 2: which is such a joy. And this is why I

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Speaker 2: love chatting to you, because we just go off in

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Speaker 2: all directions. I decided to let you in on my

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Speaker 2: theory of why your seventy National Park in the States

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Speaker 2: is pronounced wrong because okase In points too much the

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Speaker 2: United States. You have named one of your national parks

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Speaker 2: incorrectly because veggiemite is not vegemity. I win, and.

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Speaker 1: Again, as a psychiatry doctor, I had no comeback or

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Speaker 1: argument to that it is at all. I was just

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Speaker 1: a bit stumped.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like it really upset you, like you

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Speaker 2: were posting stories about it later that day, like it

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Speaker 2: was really affecting your well being.

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Speaker 1: I mean, lockdown, I've been fine worth the pandemic sweet,

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Speaker 1: but that was like strong on Camel's back. That sort

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Speaker 1: of broke me.

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Speaker 2: So you're so welcome. It's a mystery of the universe.

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Speaker 2: It really is. I should write to the President and

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Speaker 2: just address the concerns that I have with the seventy

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Speaker 2: National Park. Second thing we need to provide context for

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Speaker 2: is calf Club and Lammy, because anyone who hasn't heard

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Speaker 2: your wonderful, wonderful episode of CZA. This is not your

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Speaker 2: first time on the podcast exactly a year ago. Actually,

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Speaker 2: it's just Men's Health Week twenty twenty one has just finished,

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Speaker 2: so that makes this our anniversary so much yay. So

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Speaker 2: can you let us in on the secret of what

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Speaker 2: calf Club actually is and why every time I see

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Speaker 2: you I have to mention it and ask how lamb

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Speaker 2: he's going back in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: H I mean, it's a pleasure. I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: I feel like last time to set you off, so

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Speaker 1: I'm really ready to do that a second time. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about neuropsychiatry and mental health calf Club Boom.

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Speaker 1: We talked about lambs for about two hours straight.

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Speaker 2: So basically I had you on the show to discuss

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Speaker 2: men's health because as a doctor of psychiatry in Men's

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Speaker 2: Health Week, you had just graced the cover of Men's

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Speaker 2: Health magazine. I thought it was really important to address,

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Speaker 2: you know, breaking down the stereotypes we have of masculinity

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Speaker 2: and talking about the mental health challenges we were all

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Speaker 2: facing in Lockdown last year. And somehow in my research

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Speaker 2: I unearthed that actually your launch into the stratosphere of

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Speaker 2: the universe was calf Club back in New Zealand, which

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Speaker 2: is can you explain for all the mainlanders in here?

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Speaker 1: Once a year in New Zealand, most rural country schools

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Speaker 1: will do what we call calf Club and it's a

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Speaker 1: big call. But it may or may not be the

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Speaker 1: best day of the entire year.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not going on in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like a bit of a like a

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Speaker 1: fair day at school. There's kind of stalls and everything,

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Speaker 1: but the main event is everyone raises a little calf

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Speaker 1: or a lamb and you and you compete, so you

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Speaker 1: will lead them around little courses or your practice who's

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Speaker 1: raised the best one and judges will come around and judge.

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Speaker 2: It makes me so happy. But what makes me even

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Speaker 2: more happy is that every time I tell someone who

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Speaker 2: you are. Like I was saying to my mum the

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Speaker 2: other day, I went for a really nice walk with Kieren,

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Speaker 2: She's like, who's Kieren. I was like, calf Club. She's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: kiers that. Every time every time I explain it to someone,

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Speaker 2: I then show them Lammy, who is your award winning

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Speaker 2: like calf Club award winning lamb? And everyone's like, that's

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Speaker 2: not a calf like. What's happening?

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Speaker 1: And in a shocking modern twist, I've been told that

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Speaker 1: kids also have chickens now as well, So that's an

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Speaker 1: ad point for you, mate, But oh my god.

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Speaker 2: What's happened to tradition?

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Speaker 1: Honestly, this is going to spiral down into a calf club.

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Speaker 2: It's already, sir, I can literally I was trying to

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Speaker 2: be serious just before. I can't hold it in it.

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Speaker 2: Just if you need yay today, just look up calf

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Speaker 2: club like. It is just such a joyful concept. We

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Speaker 2: just don't have it here.

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Speaker 1: If anyone needs a laugh, I'll resind you that photo mate,

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Speaker 1: of me with my bowl cut at ten years old

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Speaker 1: with Lammy and.

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Speaker 2: It's in my favorites. It's in my favorites. You don't

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Speaker 2: need a recent entry.

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Speaker 1: It's a definite laugh. If you need a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a yay and your day, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, thank you for joining me on this episode.

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Speaker 2: That's all I need for today and bye. That was

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Speaker 2: such a great chat. But in all seriousness, apart from

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Speaker 2: being a calf club champion extraordinaire, you are an extremely

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Speaker 2: accomplished qualified doctor of psychiatry who's doing wonderful things in

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Speaker 2: the world of mental health for men in particular, but

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Speaker 2: for everyone generally, and being a wonderful spokesperson for mental

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Speaker 2: health in a time where it's probably been challenged more

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Speaker 2: than it really ever has been in it our memories.

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Speaker 2: So I thought for today's yas of our lives, because

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Speaker 2: I have done zero preparation, that I would let you

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Speaker 2: choose the quote of the A and see if there

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Speaker 2: was anything that had kind of come up for you

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Speaker 2: in the last I mean, we've just come out of

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Speaker 2: Lockdown number four after having done our last episode in

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Speaker 2: Lockdown number miscellaneous number. Who knows what has the last

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks been like for you? And is there

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Speaker 2: a quote that you wanted to chat about today?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I mean, as always, mate, that was way

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Speaker 1: too kind. And you know, I won't tell everyone the

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Speaker 1: horrible things you tell me when behind closed doors and

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Speaker 1: we're just hanging out as mate, but.

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Speaker 2: When I pay you out, that was it was really too.

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Speaker 1: Far, too kind. But the last few weeks for me

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Speaker 1: have been pretty busy but really good. I think last

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Speaker 1: time we spoke, I was finishing up a clinical part

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Speaker 1: of my specialist training and now we're fast forward a year,

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Speaker 1: and so I've done that. So it's been a really

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Speaker 1: crazy year with all the pandemic and the way that

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Speaker 1: that's affected people's mental health. But it's also been a

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Speaker 1: really great year because now that I've finished that registrar

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Speaker 1: part of my training, I can sort of branch out

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Speaker 1: and do a lot of different things. So I'm doing

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Speaker 1: some psychiatry works of locom work, we call it sort

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Speaker 1: of little private contract work the doctors, and I'm also

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Speaker 1: rolling up the sleeves to help the vaccine roll out,

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Speaker 1: So I've been doing a vaccine clinic a few days

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Speaker 1: a week as well, which has been something different and

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Speaker 1: something really important to get behind. And then just my

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Speaker 1: usual rambling and trying to get the message out there

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Speaker 1: as well. So it's been really, really busy, but really

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Speaker 1: good as well, because, just as you said, Sarah, that's

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Speaker 1: never a time more that we need to be talking

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Speaker 1: about mental health, because I think we're all feeling it

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Speaker 1: in some way right now.

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Speaker 2: For sure, absolutely, And I think something that has been

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Speaker 2: really wonderful. I mean, it was probably starting to happen,

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Speaker 2: but that's kind of solidified itself over the past year

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Speaker 2: and a bit like maybe eighteen months has been a

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Speaker 2: real light being shone on men's mental health in particular,

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Speaker 2: and maybe because it's been more acute and the need

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Speaker 2: has been greater to sort of talk about it more

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Speaker 2: and encourage conversations and really engage in preventive mental health

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Speaker 2: for the gender who is not traditionally encouraged to kind

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Speaker 2: of show when they're struggling or reach out. Absolutely, and

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Speaker 2: you've been a wonderful spokesperson for that, like guiding us

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Speaker 2: all through I mean, as soon as the lockdown happens again,

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Speaker 2: every announcement, you've just been pumping out really reassuring but

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Speaker 2: not too scientific or over complicated information either. That's been

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Speaker 2: really really really wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you mate. But yeah, and I mean that's

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Speaker 1: what I love about chats, just like this sort you know,

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Speaker 1: getting these messages out there is you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be overly complicated and psychobably, you know, doing

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Speaker 1: it in a relatable kind of fresh way, as I

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Speaker 1: think the way we need to go, especially as you say,

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Speaker 1: for men or for people who maybe don't connect with

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Speaker 1: chats about mental health and psychology and emotions and all

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Speaker 1: of those things as readily or easily you know, I

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Speaker 1: think making it relatable is key, but yeah, I almost forgot.

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Speaker 1: Then I did find a quote because I took all

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Speaker 1: that pressure on my back knowing that I needed to

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Speaker 1: find the quote because you've been hectic.

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Speaker 2: Today, I delegated. I was like, I need to just

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Speaker 2: lean on you. I'm just going to delegate this task

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Speaker 2: right out to you because I feel like you'll find

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Speaker 2: something really intelligent and I'll just come up with some

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Speaker 2: babble about calves.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, I mean, you brought about ten quotes about

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Speaker 1: calves to the table, so I've vetoed those for everyone listening.

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Speaker 1: Those were vetos.

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Speaker 2: I want to listen to that episode. I'm just saying.

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Speaker 1: But the quote that I did come up with, or

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Speaker 1: that came actually pretty quickly to mind when you said

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Speaker 1: we'd sort of start the chat today with a quote.

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Speaker 1: There's one that I'm sure you've heard before, and you

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Speaker 1: might even probably have had someone bring up on the

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Speaker 1: show before. But it's a quote. It's one of my favorites.

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Speaker 1: It's by the Persian poet Roomy, and it's uh, probably

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Speaker 1: know what's coming, but it's you are not just a

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Speaker 1: drop in the ocean. You're the entire ocean and a drop,

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Speaker 1: And I love that quote and I've always found it

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Speaker 1: incredibly powerful. But you know, when I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: us talking about mental health and this current time and

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Speaker 1: Men's Health Week that we've just had last week, that

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Speaker 1: one sort of stands out as well, because I think

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Speaker 1: there's a bit of a stormy, a stormy old ocean

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Speaker 1: going on out there in the world at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and it's so easy for all of us to feel

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Speaker 1: like we're pretty isolated and alone and you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of hemmed and with a lot of anxiety and worry

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Speaker 1: right now. So you know that that idea or ethos

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Speaker 1: of you know, you're not just the drop, you you're

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Speaker 1: the ocean in that drop is I think quite powerful

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Speaker 1: when we're thinking about having these discussions, because no matter

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Speaker 1: how alone or isolated you feel, you're worth you know,

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Speaker 1: your story is worth being heard and you are worth

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Speaker 1: reaching out. So that that is a bit psychobably and psychiatrisy.

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Speaker 1: But I said, I wasn't going to go there, but

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, in its own way, that's what that

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Speaker 1: quote sort of clicked them with quite nicely to me

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Speaker 1: this past week.

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Speaker 2: I love that so much. I think it really does

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Speaker 2: hammer home the fact that one of the biggest barriers

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Speaker 2: to any kind of seeking of help for mental health

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Speaker 2: or just reaching out is that isolation piece, like feeling

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Speaker 2: lonely or feeling like no one else could possibly understand

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Speaker 2: what you're going through, and that you know no one

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Speaker 2: would understand even if you tried, or they wouldn't know

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Speaker 2: what to do. But actually, I think there are so

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Speaker 2: many people out there who are who know what to

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Speaker 2: say or who know who to help you, how to

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Speaker 2: get you to someone who knows what to say.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, definitely i'd love to know.

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Speaker 2: Like reflecting because this is our anniversary reflecting on Men's

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Speaker 2: Mental Health Week last year, either for you personally or

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Speaker 2: as a practitioner or just as a general participant in

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Speaker 2: this great rollercoaster of what the last sort of years, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: compared to this year, are there any like big observations

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Speaker 2: changes forwards or backwards, or themes that aren't as strong

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Speaker 2: this year that were last year, or anything that you've

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Speaker 2: just kind of noticed since we.

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Speaker 1: Spoke last Yeah, you know, it's been a really interesting week.

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Speaker 1: As you say, it's men's health work is always quite

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Speaker 1: a busy week for me, and I love that it

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Speaker 1: is but you know, it's a week where lots of

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Speaker 1: people are wanting to talk about men's health, and you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it's TV or radio or little articles for things,

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Speaker 1: and this week, this year, I really felt that, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it was almost like there was this real

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Speaker 1: need for us to be talking about especially the mental

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Speaker 1: side of things for men more. And I think you

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Speaker 1: said it before, Sarah, but the almost the strange double

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Speaker 1: take silver lining to everything we've all been through in

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Speaker 1: the last twelve months is that it's really just outed

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Speaker 1: the fact that mental health and mental illness is something

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Speaker 1: that unites us, it doesn't separate us. And I think

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Speaker 1: of anything this Men's Health Week, it's just been so

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Speaker 1: so so bloody amazing for me as a mental health

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Speaker 1: doctor to see that mental health health has really been

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Speaker 1: an equal kind of partner to physical health, because it's

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Speaker 1: not just Men's Health Week, it's it's all health weeks.

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Speaker 1: And it goes for women too, I think, but we're

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Speaker 1: often so much quicker to just jump on, Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about prostate cancer, and let's talk about viagra,

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Speaker 1: and let's talk about men's sexual health and their fitness

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Speaker 1: and you know, all of those big ticket physical things

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Speaker 1: that are really really important, but sometimes the mental health

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Speaker 1: discussions can feel a little secondary. But for me, this

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Speaker 1: past week with Men's Health Week has really just felt

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Speaker 1: very strongly that we've kind of bumped mental health up

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Speaker 1: to an equal placing on that table and that's exactly

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Speaker 1: where it should be. And you know, that's been so

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Speaker 1: so so great to see.

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Speaker 2: That's so exciting to hear from, particularly from a practitioner's

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Speaker 2: point of view, because you have such a greater insight

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Speaker 2: into what is actually kind of happening out in society

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Speaker 2: or as we're very influenced just by who we're following

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Speaker 2: or who we're talking to. But to see that even

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Speaker 2: just how often, you know, how regularly you've been consulted

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Speaker 2: to contribute to things, and watching your career blossom as well,

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Speaker 2: is in itself kind of a sign that these conversations

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Speaker 2: are becoming more important and have evolved from almost being

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Speaker 2: a little bit sort of tokenistic and like a week

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Speaker 2: where we just tick the box of which is not

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Speaker 2: a bad thing. I mean, it's better than nothing. It's

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Speaker 2: the start of how conversations begin. But it's almost like

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Speaker 2: it stopped being just something we think about for one

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Speaker 2: week and it started being something that different organizations or

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Speaker 2: different spokesperst people or ambassadors are actually bringing up all

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. And you know, so many other avenues

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Speaker 1: and places, and you know, whether it's companies or brands

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Speaker 1: or you know, different media platforms. So many places that

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't traditionally associate you chatting about men's mental health

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Speaker 1: with have sort of been doing amazing work, you know,

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Speaker 1: separately from me as well. Obviously, I've seen so many

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Speaker 1: people on social media and in the media this past

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Speaker 1: week just really pushing that, you know, and so to

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Speaker 1: see fitness influences or you know, media platforms that might

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Speaker 1: not traditionally talk about some of that nitty gritty difficult stuff.

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Speaker 1: To see places like that kind of pushing for for

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Speaker 1: health of mind as being equally important as your body.

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Speaker 1: That's been so you know, it's been really special to see, actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I think men's health is that you know,

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Speaker 1: and obviously women's health is as well, but you know,

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Speaker 1: men's health is so much more than you know, gymming

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Speaker 1: and you know, lifestyle stuff and prostate cancer and although

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Speaker 1: are the physical things and obviously they all have their place,

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Speaker 1: but you know, men and men's health as a whole.

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Speaker 1: You know, men are so much more than that. And

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Speaker 1: men are you know, the vulnerable side. Men are, you know,

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Speaker 1: the panic attacking side. They're the worrying about failure, worrying

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Speaker 1: if they stack up against other guys, worrying if they're

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Speaker 1: ever gonna you know, nail down a partner or have

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Speaker 1: kids one day. You know, all of these things that

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Speaker 1: that masculinity has for so long told men they can't

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Speaker 1: be or they can't touch. You know, it's really important

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Speaker 1: that we acknowledge that that those things are men's health

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Speaker 1: as well. And you know, it's this really interesting shift

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Speaker 1: happening in the world, I think where for men and women,

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Speaker 1: we're sort of sitting up to the fact that our

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Speaker 1: health is so much more than sort of what we

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Speaker 1: see on the surface and are biased. But you know,

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Speaker 1: as a psychiatry doctor, I think that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: bloody view orful things. So it's you know, it's been

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Speaker 1: actually a really sort of humbling, special sort of week

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Speaker 1: to see in the midst of all this COVID chaos,

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Speaker 1: some of the messages that we're pushing for men and

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Speaker 1: their health right now.

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Speaker 2: It is really exciting when you look at the fact

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Speaker 2: that you would never wish for this to be why

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Speaker 2: it's sort of come to the fore forefront of our attention,

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Speaker 2: but that there is really quite a big silver lining

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Speaker 2: for mental health in particular, and that there are so

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Speaker 2: many areas of dialogue that are traditionally feminine, because perhaps

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Speaker 2: we do have more tendencies towards self doubt and comparison

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Speaker 2: and over delivering, and our value is tied up in

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Speaker 2: being nurturers and all that kind of stuff. But that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's exclusively female. And I don't think men

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Speaker 2: have really ever been given permission to say I've got

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Speaker 2: comparison itis about my career or my worth or my body,

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Speaker 2: like body image in particular, something you spoke to me

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Speaker 2: about last year, and that was quite new, Like I

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Speaker 2: don't think many men had even started having those conversations.

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Speaker 2: So it's really wonderful to see how far in just

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Speaker 2: a year we've come.

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Speaker 1: One hundred, you know. And I mean, that's what I

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Speaker 1: love about chatting with you, mate, and what you do

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Speaker 1: here with with your platform and your voice is it's

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Speaker 1: it's finding that that little positive needle in a in

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Speaker 1: a ship storm of a haystack let's face it, the

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Speaker 1: last the last twelve months have been pretty damn tough.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think if there's any silver lining,

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Speaker 1: at least from a health perspective, it's it's the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's made us really have to confront some of

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Speaker 1: these things, you know. And you know what we always

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Speaker 1: say in psychiatry, and it's not my quote at all,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the the unexamined life, you know, is

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Speaker 1: questionably you know that the examined life is the life

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Speaker 1: worth living, you know. So I think if it's taken

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Speaker 1: something like this to get us all to sit up,

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Speaker 1: and especially to get us men to sit up and

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Speaker 1: really start acknowledging that these things of your very real

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Speaker 1: and they're very important, and that it doesn't make you

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Speaker 1: less of a man. It actually makes you more of

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Speaker 1: a man to kind of acknowledge that we're struggling and

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Speaker 1: to reach out and ask for help. So, no, it's huge,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, just as you said there, So, there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of sort of research and things coming

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Speaker 1: out lately showing that men really are feeling a lot

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Speaker 1: of these things that we traditionally just sort of wouldn't

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Speaker 1: think that men would be feeling or worrying about. And

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Speaker 1: as you said, the body image struggles and things is

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Speaker 1: one that's really skyrocketing for men lately. But also those

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Speaker 1: fears about whether we're doing okay and you know, what

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Speaker 1: other people think, and all of those things. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think they've always been there for men. But masculinity

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Speaker 1: and femininity, they have their physiological components. You know, men

433
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: and women are different in certain ways for definite reasons.

434
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: But you know, so much of what masculinity is and

435
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: femininity is is socially constructed. You know that the world

436
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: tells a man what a man is supposed to be,

437
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: and vice versa tells a woman what a woman's supposed

438
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: to be. And you know, I think that can make

439
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: it really difficult if naturally we actually are also underneath

440
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: feeling things that the world tells us we're not supposed

441
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: to feel. And obviously for people who are in between,

442
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, genders, or who might be fluid in their

443
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: gender and things, that brings in a whole other range

444
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: of difficult kind of pushes and pulls there too. So

445
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: I think it's important for us to remember that a

446
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: lot of the things we're starting to see men struggle

447
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: with may have been there all along in some form,

448
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: but the fact that we're starting to see them may

449
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: be a sign that we're starting to break through some

450
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: of those traditionally very powerful ways that the world has

451
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: said this is masculine, this is feminine, because actually, at

452
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's by logically often not

453
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: what we are and who we are. That's what society

454
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: tells us we are, and we can change that narrative,

455
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: and I think for men's health, we need to be changing.

456
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: That narrative totally. And I think on a broader level,

457
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: that's how societal expectations and norms operate, not just on gender,

458
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: but on career, on like all kinds of things that

459
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: we have in our life, all the boxes that we

460
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: think we need to tick, that we get very influenced

461
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: by what everyone thinks we should be doing rather than

462
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: you know, how we feel. And I think spokespeople like

463
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: you are so important to help normalize breaking down those

464
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: barriers where they're not productive, because sometimes they are, but

465
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: where then you know, where they might stop someone from

466
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: reaching out to get help. And one of the things

467
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: that I wanted to ask you in the Yighborhood Watch section,

468
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: coming at it from quite a different perspective that I

469
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: normally would, where you know, I'm normally looking out there

470
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: for like a community hero story or a community group

471
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: or something, but I'd love to ask you just from

472
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: a I know you can't talk specifics about patient or

473
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: people or conversations, but I think one of the big

474
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: barriers is access, and not access in that psychiatrists and

475
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: psychologists aren't accessible, but more that patients don't actually go

476
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: and seek them, and that's a really big psychological barrier.

477
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: So for people who might be wanting to chat to

478
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: someone like you or even just open the conversation, I

479
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: know that social media has made it a lot easier

480
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: to drop you a DM or kind of say, reach

481
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: out in a less formal way, which obviously can sometimes

482
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: compromise your working hours and like stretch your boundaries, but

483
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: it also means that you've probably connected with a lot

484
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: of people who would never have otherwise consulted a psychiatrist

485
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: just to ask questions about how they feel or what

486
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: the right resources are. So on the whole in the neighborhood,

487
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: are there any questions or themes that have repeatedly come

488
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: up that if someone was listening they might find useful

489
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: to hear what your answer was. Who might have missed

490
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: your DM, who might have missed your stories or the

491
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: places where you've kind of said the same thing a

492
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: couple of times that you know might be useful for

493
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: them as a starting point.

494
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: Oh, such a good question, Yeah, you know, I think,

495
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: and especially if we're again sort of thinking about this

496
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: anniversary and Men's Health Week and things. You know, there

497
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: have really been some big ticket things that have come up,

498
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the first ones that comes

499
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: to mind is really a lot of you know, girlfriends, wives, mums, sisters,

500
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: friends asking how they can support the man or the

501
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: men in their lives if they're struggling, you know, And

502
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: that's a really powerful thing too, you know, and that

503
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: always really warms me, you know, to know that we're

504
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: looking out for each other that way. You know. Obviously

505
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: we talk about men's health and women's health, but we're

506
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: all in this together and overall it's just health. So

507
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: one of the things that I often get asked is

508
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: how can I make it easier in terms of opening

509
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: up or broaching these conversations, and especially for men, I

510
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: think because of all those sort of traditional things, men

511
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: have been made to feel and the messages we've taken,

512
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: and it can be hard for guys in particular to

513
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: open up about this stuff. So a question I often

514
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: get asked is how do I kind of get in

515
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: their efforts if it's a bit tough in terms of

516
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: getting him to open up or getting him to talk

517
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: about these things.

518
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, without like let's go get a money petty and

519
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: talk about Nick. Could not enjoy that, couldn't enjoy that. No,

520
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: that's not the right approach for him.

521
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: And for some for some leads it might be. And

522
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: that is more than okay. But yeah, you know, and

523
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: obviously there's no rhyme and reason to this. Everyone's going

524
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: to be slightly different. But you know, some interesting research

525
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: has come out about what can make it easier for men,

526
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, And and one of them that I love

527
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: to talk about is this thing called a diffuser, which

528
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: is adding something within or in between the conversation just

529
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: to make it slightly less emotionally confronting and intense. And

530
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: some really fascinating research that shows that for guys in particular,

531
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: this can actually help just ease things a little bit

532
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: to get us to open up and to talk about

533
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: some of these touchy feely kind of difficult things. So

534
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: by a diffuser, I mean there's research that shows raising

535
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: it in the car when you're side by side rather

536
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: than face to face, men often find side by side

537
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: conversations about this mental health emotional tricky stuff easier than

538
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 1: when it's face to face sometimes, So trying it out

539
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: in the car can be helpful while you're doing the

540
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: dishes together, if your mates or whatever, when you're going

541
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: for a job or a jog sorry, or when you're

542
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: doing a job together. You know, something in between that

543
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: kind of means there's a little element of distraction there.

544
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: You can be using your hands or there's other things

545
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: going on. It can just for some people, women included,

546
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: just take that emotional intensity out of it and that

547
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: can be enough to allow someone to sort of open up.

548
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: So that's a tip I often throw out there or

549
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: give to people if they're saying, how do I open

550
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: up easier if I want to? Or for someone who's

551
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: in the support role who's worried about someone and wanting

552
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: them to open up, you know, that's something that they

553
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: can use as well, just sort of trying and slip

554
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: it in there when there's a bit of a diffuser

555
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: in there too.

556
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: That's so interesting and so practical. I think, like sometimes

557
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: there's a lot of you know, your automatic response if

558
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: you're worried about someone is to go deep dive into

559
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: the research and like try and read all the books

560
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: and understand and listen to the podcasts. But that simple,

561
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: just practical tip could change the whole conversation. And you've

562
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: just scientifically explained the meme about how car conversations like

563
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: car dn ms are low key therapy sessions. I'm like,

564
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: oh my god, he's just explained it from a scientific

565
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: point of view. It's because there's a diffuser.

566
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: Science, ma'am science, I've.

567
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Answered the universe. But it's because like you're not making

568
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: eye contact. That's such, like that's why walking and talking

569
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 2: is so much easier to open up, because eye contact

570
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: is really confronting, and like, I don't know about you. Okay,

571
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to blow delirious areas back out. I'm going

572
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: to blow your mind again, and it's going to be

573
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: really awkward. But I cannot be the only person in

574
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: the world who thinks that when I'm looking at someone

575
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: really close, I start to overthink that I can't look

576
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: at both their eyes at the same time, and then

577
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: I have to look at one or the other, and

578
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: then I think, oh my god, they're going to see

579
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: that I'm not looking at them straight on, that I'm only.

580
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: You're going to be the only person with my left

581
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: just looking at that eye.

582
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: But you know, when you're like like really face to

583
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: face with someone, you can't actually look at both eyes

584
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: at the same time unless you're looking in the middle

585
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 2: of the nose. And it gets really distracting because then

586
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: of course I overthink it and I'm like, shit, they're

587
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: telling me they're like deepest darker secrets, and I'm like,

588
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: which Irish do I look into to not look cross

589
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: while I'm talking to you. Hell, I would like to

590
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: do a virtual poll right now. Please everyone DM me

591
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: if you have had that exact thought before during a

592
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: serious conversation. But I get like it removes that whole

593
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: intimacy that makes the conversation more intimidating when you're looking

594
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: at someone's facial expression. That makes so much sense.

595
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, you know, and obviously really connecting with someone,

596
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: being face to face, looking someone in the eye. You know,

597
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: all of that stuff is important in its right place.

598
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: And I think when we're in that space and zone,

599
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: when we're feeling really comfortable and connected, but at least

600
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: to start with some of these conversations, You're absolutely right,

601
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: it can just feel really kind of charged and intense

602
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: and a bit confronting sometimes, I think, And so especially

603
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: for people who might not have have always felt safe

604
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: to raise some of the stuff or to be vulnerable

605
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: or to talk about you know that they had a

606
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: panic attack the other day, didn't tell anyone, or you

607
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: know that they're actually really scared that the business is

608
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: going down the tubes, you know. And for men, I think,

609
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: because again of that societal kind of plaster that society

610
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: has put over men, sometimes I think that can be

611
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: pretty prominent. So just diffusing the situation a little bit,

612
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: and as you say, meming it up with that car,

613
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: with that car therapy session, or the water, the walk

614
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: around the lake, whatever it is. You know, as you say,

615
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: that's not just a meme, there's some actual science in

616
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, that's that's a big that's a big

617
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: thing that I rolled out to people when they're asking

618
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: sort of how can I get you know, my mate

619
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: or my partner, or my mom or my dad or

620
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: my son to open up more, you know, trying that

621
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: can help. And you know, I think something else to

622
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: really remember as well, especially if you're the supporter of

623
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: someone who's struggling, is that it's okay to take the

624
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: pressure off. You know, you said before, Sarah. You know,

625
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: often we'll like google search psychiatry and we'll be like

626
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: getting textbooks out and like trying to see what therapy

627
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: technique we can like put under a everyone's start waving

628
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: a clock in front of their face. You know, I

629
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: think taking that pressure off it on both sides is

630
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: important because actually, far and away, the biggest thing that

631
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: helps in these scenarios is when we are just there,

632
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: and if we're the one that needs to talk, the

633
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: biggest benefit comes from just talking and just getting out

634
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: whatever you feel you can, you know, because these things

635
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: can be complicated, hard to explain. It's not easy sometimes

636
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: to sum up how you're feeling and why and what

637
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: it means. But there's often a pressure to think, we

638
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: have to do that, And if you're on the other

639
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: side of the conversation, there can often be this pressure

640
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: should I have to I have to come up with

641
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: some solution or some way to fix it, or help

642
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: them or know something profound to say. But actually the

643
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: biggest benefit from being the supporter is just being a

644
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: bit of a sponge, just being there to listen. So

645
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: I think if we take the pressure and intensity out

646
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: of some of these situations, that actually means we're not

647
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: only open up to each other, but the opening up

648
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: as actually more helpful, you know. So I always say

649
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: to people, whether it's in the hospital or out of

650
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: the hospital, just do it. Like it doesn't have to

651
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: be a it doesn't have to be a Ted talk.

652
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: It just has to be whatever comes out, you know.

653
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: And that's thank you for.

654
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: My Ted talk on Virginity versus Yosemite. Thank you, thank.

655
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: You, And you'll know. You'll note, Sarah that that conversation

656
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: happened when we were walkingside, so probably you wouldn't have

657
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: felt safe to do that. If I was like steering

658
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: directly at your left eye.

659
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: Would not have been out. No, I would have been like,

660
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: what's wrong with my iris? Like why is he looking

661
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: at marble? So do I have pink? I did pick

662
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: fut on my pillow? What is happening to me right now?

663
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: Probably he probably did. I love it Also, how I

664
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: was like let's go for a casual catch up. I

665
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 2: know you're a psychiatrist, so I'm going to offload everything

666
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: that I have onto you right now and pretend that

667
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: it's like a light and easy conversation, floaded just as

668
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: much you or the other thing. I think that's I mean,

669
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: I would love to talk to you about mental health forever.

670
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many things that I think

671
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: are important. But I also I'm conscious that we're both

672
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: well you're not, but I'm losing coherence. So I think

673
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: another thing that is really important in CZA, but in

674
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: life in general, is that when you are as passionate

675
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: as you are about what you do, and access to

676
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: you has become easier for good reason. And I'm sure

677
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: you've had you have many instances in your mind where

678
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: you're so glad that someone was able to reach out

679
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: to you in a way that they couldn't have a

680
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: decade ago or five years ago. I think one of

681
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: the things we talked for most of the lake about

682
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: before UFOs and Calf Club and various named national parks

683
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: in the US, was that we felt guilty that we

684
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: were relieved, like in part relieved about a fourth lockdown,

685
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: having not learned our lessons the first three times. And

686
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: because that's why I talk about platio so much, because

687
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: we do get really consumed in our careers because when

688
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 2: you love them like, there really is very little incentive

689
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: to kind of slow down before it's too late. And

690
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: so I'd love to ask in this Neighborhood Watch section

691
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: if there's anything you've seen that made you smile out

692
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: in the community that wasn't about mental health, or that

693
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: wasn't work related or a win as a psychiatrist, but

694
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: that was just something you saw that made you happy,

695
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: or that you did that made you happy, or a

696
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: restaurant that you were like, you know, just an experience

697
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: coming out of lockdown that really reminded you why it's

698
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: exciting to be alive.

699
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, other than.

700
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 2: Our walk, because I already know that that was really crating.

701
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: That was clearly the highlight of the last six months.

702
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: But apart from.

703
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: That goes without saying I'm already ware, you don't need it,

704
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 2: you don't need to clarify.

705
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: I feel I'm afraid that the po that the recording

706
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: is going to get cut right now.

707
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: Someone's going to be like, did he say the safe word?

708
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: Is she domestically abusing him like right now, absolutely.

709
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: The safe word is lammy and we didn't use that word.

710
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: So we're fine. We're fine. Something that made me really

711
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: smile lately, you know, I think it was coming out

712
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 1: of lockdown and I did. I was getting my coffee

713
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: where I would normally get my coffee in the morning

714
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: before clinic and seeing people come in and like just

715
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: the excitement of being able to go in and like

716
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: sit down in the shop again and people saying hello

717
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: to each other and hello to the barrister, and you know,

718
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: it was just it did kind of make me stop

719
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: and you know, have a little internal smile because I

720
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: don't want to be that guy just standing there by

721
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: himself like with a smile of faith.

722
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 2: We all know you're a creep. We've talked about, Karen.

723
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: We've literally my last text from you is sorry, I

724
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: didn't mean to be as sound as creepy as I was.

725
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: And I was like, it's okay, we all know you're

726
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: a creep. Is fun, so we can move on from that.

727
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: I feel like that needs context, but we're not gonna

728
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: We're not going to pull the She's not.

729
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 2: A creep, guys, she's the loveliest gentleman in the whole world.

730
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 2: My love language with Kieren is just paying him out.

731
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: Wow, you really went this.

732
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: I'm just being honest. I mean, I just you know,

733
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: you're like a brother.

734
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: Well exactly, I mean, and how it goes. And standing

735
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 1: in the corner of a coffee shop smiling to myself

736
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: that the creep kind Yeah, absolutely so so internally smiled.

737
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just that, you know, just seeing

738
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: people connecting with each other, even in tiny little ways.

739
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, people that don't actually know each other, but

740
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: people that might just get a coffee at the same

741
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: time in the same place each day, or the arista

742
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: and the person that goes in every second day to

743
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: get the coffee. You know, I think this whole pandemic

744
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: life and going into lockdown and out lockdown. You know. Again,

745
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: a silver lining in its own weird way, is that

746
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: it's just shown us how important connection is, even those

747
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: tiny little connections that we probably don't even think of

748
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: as connections. You know, I think when we think connections

749
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: to other humans, we think, you know, our girlfriend, or

750
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: we think our best mate, or we think our parents

751
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: or siblings, but actually all those little other people and

752
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: other little fleeting connections in our day are really really

753
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: important to just living as well, you know. So yeah,

754
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: so that was that was something that made me sort

755
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: of have a little bit of yay in the day

756
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: just to see that coming across as people came out

757
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: of Melbourne's you know, eleven hundredth.

758
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: Lockdown, everyone was just so excited to see each other.

759
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's something that you might not notice,

760
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: actually does happen quite often that strangers will smile at

761
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: each other or connect for a second over their dog,

762
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: or you know, something will happen or like someone even

763
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 2: something as small as someone was driving past a cafe

764
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: that I was sitting at and beeping his horn like

765
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: crazy person, and all of us just laughing together like

766
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: oh my god, what like connecting over that was like

767
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: I haven't just laughed with the stranger in a long time.

768
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: And those little moments are really really lovely where you

769
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: all just know how nice it is to see another

770
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: person laugh and smile at.

771
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: Something that shared humanity kind of yeah, yeah, so yeah,

772
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that we all really miss

773
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: when we're in lockdown and under COVID restrictions, as just

774
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: that connectivity with each other in the world, and you know,

775
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a storm, a storm of a

776
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: kind of a social setting at the moment. And I

777
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,959
Speaker 1: think it's what it has done is pull out those

778
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: real fundamental things to just being human that we all

779
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: really miss when they're not there. So totally, there's definitely

780
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: a little creepy smile point for me.

781
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: Something that I really love is that even when like

782
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: sometimes memes hit me so hard in the heart, even

783
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: though they're so stupid, like they are really just sometimes

784
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: so hysterically dumb. But why I love that, I think

785
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: why people love them so much is because they usually

786
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: hit one of those joint humanity, like anywhere in the world,

787
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: everyone understands why that particular thing is funny. And that's

788
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 2: why I love the Internet, because when you can't connect

789
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: in person, you can all join together about how hysterical

790
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: it is that you know, everyone around the world, like

791
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: every woman in the world has seventy five lip balms

792
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: and hair ties and you can never find them, and

793
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: we all can just bond over that experience, you know,

794
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: just like little small things or no you know, everyone

795
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: has a chair or a couch in their room where

796
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: their laundry lives. For eighty five years after it's cleaned,

797
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: before it gets folded and put away. Like we all

798
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: understand those communal humanity things, and I think it's because

799
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 2: that's part of just being a human.

800
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: You're so right. I saw one that just you saying

801
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: laundry reminded me of one that popped up on my

802
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: phone the other day, and I was like, this is

803
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: legitimy this week. But it was just a picture of

804
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: someone's washing machine and it was like wet washing in

805
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: the washing machine, and it was like, why do I

806
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: do this every time? Fourth cycle? You know, like you

807
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: just you wash it and then you leave it there

808
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: long enough that you're like, it's going to stink now,

809
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: so I'm going to have to wash it again. Yeah.

810
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: I think I literally got up to about five last week,

811
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: and we all get it.

812
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 2: We're all like, yes, it gets that weird smell.

813
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: Thank god I'm not alone, or that thing.

814
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: Where like you've made a really nice dinner and then

815
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 2: you forget to rinse the pan when it's still wet,

816
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: and then everything dries on the bottom and then you

817
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: go to wash it and then you're like it needs

818
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: to soak, but really, you just CBF cleaning it, so

819
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: you should just leave it to soak, But you.

820
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: Feel great about it because you're like, actually, I think

821
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: Mum would back this decision. It needs to so it

822
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: is really dried off.

823
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, I am a domestic goddess. I am soaking

824
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: when I know how to get a stain out. I'm like, hmmmm,

825
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 2: I'm like a grandmother from the sixties. I know about

826
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: baking soda on stains.

827
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well you'll see that I've aptly turned the

828
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: camera just to face a blank wall.

829
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Because there'd be too much laundry.

830
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: We turned it around right now to show you my

831
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: apartment that whole ven year of this is. A doctor

832
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: who's got a shit together would just fall apart, needs

833
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: a bit of a clean. Let's just say that that's okay.

834
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: Pandemic life absolutely been gentle on ourselves. We're accepting our

835
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: flaws were acceptable.

836
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: We are leaning and we absolutely are leaning in, which

837
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: is also why I think it's important to admit that

838
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: we all, you know, maybe wanted to come out of

839
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: lockdown with a new skill or having read some literature

840
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: or new language, a new language, and really we all

841
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: just came out with a really intimate knowledge of Netflix,

842
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: stand Binge, like everything that we could get our hands on,

843
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: which is why the last section is called recommendations, because

844
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: I think particularly when we aren't you know, we're still

845
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: restricted in movement and we are relying a little bit

846
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: on the internet for human connect and those like hit

847
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 2: you in the heart kind of things. Even music. I

848
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: noticed I had forgotten to listen to music because I'm

849
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: not driving as much, and I put on a playlist

850
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: the other day and it made me so happy, and

851
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: that made me happy for the rest of the day.

852
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: And I just forgot how much the stimulus you put

853
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: in your brain affects your mood for the rest of

854
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: the day. And so as much as I do love

855
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: making time for serial killer movies because they're really important

856
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: for me, Like this section is where those things that

857
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: you watch and they're just feel good. You can't not

858
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: feel good and happy about being a human. I love

859
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: sharing those because then when you post about it, someone

860
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: from across the world will go, oh, my god, I

861
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 2: cried in that movie because it was so beautiful, and

862
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: you're like, yes, I understand, humans are beautiful. Have you

863
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: seen was your recommendation? A show, a book, a movie?

864
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: It can be old or anything you've seen lately that

865
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: just made you really happy.

866
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I did have to think about this a

867
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 1: little bit because you know, you know, we're slightly similar,

868
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I think I said on the last podcast,

869
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm a massive horror movie fan, so I was like,

870
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: probably not gonna fit the recommendation kind of brief if

871
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: from like, watch some guy chase people around with like

872
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: a massive act, I.

873
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: Saw, fifty five is not going to make the list.

874
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: Fifty five was the one, you know, I was like.

875
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 1: The conjuring or four. Don't know how I can work

876
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: either of those into an inspiring chat about me time,

877
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: But no one that actually I did see recently, and

878
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: I am that. I am that guy who is like, mate,

879
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,479
Speaker 1: did you see that movie? Like it's really good, and

880
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: my friends will all be like, what rock are you under?

881
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: That movie came out like two years ago. Like I

882
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: am that. I'm that person, so two years is not

883
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: not that bad.

884
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 2: I'm the one who's like, oh, that came out in

885
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: late nineteen eighty five. I'm like, oh, brand new information.

886
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how. I don't think it's that old.

887
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: But I watched the movie on Netflix last week. My

888
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: optopus teacher. I don't know if you've seen that documentary.

889
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay, okay, okay, this is so weird.

890
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: I watched this movie yesterday. No, it was my recommendation

891
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,479
Speaker 2: for today. What the actual fuck were you about to say?

892
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: I was actually about to say it. And by like

893
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 2: bye yesterday, I mean literally call Nick right now. We

894
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 2: want it yesterday.

895
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: How weird is that?

896
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: That is the weirdest thing in the whole entire world.

897
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 2: That is so weird.

898
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: And I'm just searching. I'm searching my mind to think

899
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: if us catching up lately, if either of us mentioned

900
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: an octopus at all, but we legit did it?

901
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: Okay, you explained why you love it.

902
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: Okay, you go for it. You.

903
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 2: This is why I love this podcast so much, because

904
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 2: even if no one else listens, like, I'm so happy

905
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: right now, that is literally what's happening right now.

906
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: I mean we did just talk about joint humanity and

907
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: human connection, so same.

908
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 2: This was because of your Semite National Park to aquarium

909
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 2: to ocean too.

910
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't go down there, yeah ye No, Like I

911
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: legitimately I loved it, like i'd heard it was really

912
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: good and had won a bunch of awards and things,

913
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: but never got around to watching it. And yeah, just

914
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: like all of it again, I'll go out on the

915
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: man limb and make myself a bit vulnerable. But like

916
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: it may have been a few little man teas ship

917
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: like when the the pus you know, passed away and

918
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: stuff like. It was. Yeah, it was just a really

919
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 1: weirdly powerful movie. And I think again what it links

920
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: back to, at least for me, was just that that

921
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: whole thing of connection, like just kind of stopping in

922
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: our day, stopping in our lives to realize that these

923
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: tiny little points of connection that we have to other

924
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: people or to an animal, or to just nature or

925
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: what's around us. Yeah, just like really kind of sucker

926
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: punched me in the gut in terms of our sa

927
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: how awful that is? And it was yeah, really kind

928
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: of surprisingly powerful.

929
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: So oh my god, I love that you said that one.

930
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: Oh so guys, now you go, why did you like it? Well?

931
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: Firstly, I feel like most people listening will probably be like, dude,

932
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: that was like ten years ago, so twenty ten. But

933
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: if you haven't, it is the documentary that won the

934
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: Best Documentary at the Oscars, so is brilliant. Firstly, like

935
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: that shouldn't you shouldn't need if you don't trust Kieran

936
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: and I and my judgment after this conversation, trust the

937
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: oscars because it's amazing. Yeah, I know.

938
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: I was like, I need to creep, but that's fine.

939
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 2: And I started this conversation with Virgemity Yosemite, so it's

940
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: I'm not really I like documentaries, but they're not my yay, like,

941
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: I'll watch them with someone else and I'll always appreciate them.

942
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 2: And there have been some brilliant ones that I've watched,

943
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 2: but I don't choose them first, and I don't know why,

944
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: but I just I don't know. I saw it and

945
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: I was like, like what, I don't get it, Like

946
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 2: it just it did not even call out to me

947
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: one bit. And I only chose to watch it because

948
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 2: Nick had said it's been on my list of pages,

949
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: and I was playing some game on my phone and

950
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, I'm not going to concentrate,

951
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: so I can play my game on my phone and

952
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 2: watch it. And from the first minute it was literally

953
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 2: this guy who is a filmmaker and he really burned

954
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: himself out and lost creativity and couldn't work. He couldn't film,

955
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: he had no inspiration to edit, so he started He's

956
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: from South Africa, and he started going into the same

957
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: part of the ocean near where he lives. And one

958
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: day he discovered this female octopus and got really sort

959
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: of intrigued by what made her come out of her

960
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: den and just look at him. And he thought, what

961
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: if I go back the same you know, every day

962
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 2: and show her that my camera's not foreign. I'm not

963
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: going to you know, I'm not a threat. And over

964
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 2: like seven to ten days, she started to touch, like her

965
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 2: little legs and tentacles started to touch. Like there's this

966
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: amazing footage of all the little what are they call

967
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: they called suction things.

968
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: What are they called? I don't know, but like.

969
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 2: On the screen of the camera, like feeling it out.

970
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: And then she reached out and touched his hand and

971
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: then crawled onto his hand. And over three hundred and

972
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 2: twenty days, which is pretty much the life span of

973
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: an octopus. The footage is all from ten years ago,

974
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: and then he got the help of two directors to

975
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 2: then make it into an actual film. Yeah, so it's

976
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: all his original footage of the octopus under the sea.

977
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: But he was never a wildlife photographer, and he never

978
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: made it for a documentary, so he got someone to

979
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: actually turn it into something ten years later. But the

980
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 2: footage that he saw of her is like, you start

981
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: to conceive of this mollusk as this super intelligent being

982
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: that recognizes him every day and comes and says hi,

983
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: hugs him on the chest, and then she gets threatened

984
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 2: by sharks that are in her environment. And at the beginning,

985
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: like he sees her crawl up into this like octopuses

986
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: can actually octopy or whatever you say, can actually make

987
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: themselves like liquid. They can get through the tiniest cracks.

988
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 2: But she rolled herself up into a ball, changed color,

989
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: and then grabbed all the shells from around her, and like,

990
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: was this weird shell disco ball looking down? I didn't

991
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: know you know that bit And he didn't know what

992
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: it was. And then at the end he realized it

993
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: was camouflage. So she looked like a rock with shells

994
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,919
Speaker 2: on her to hide from the sharks. Oh my god,

995
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 2: it's so smart. Yeah, And I'm just like I've never like,

996
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: I love animals, but for some reason, mollusks and like

997
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: anenemies or whatever, they're not They're not like you know,

998
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: cute fluffy mammals, you know, so I've never Yeah they're

999
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 2: not Paul, right, so I don't. But at the end,

1000
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: I was like, I love you.

1001
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: So beautiful.

1002
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: It's so clever, Like I never thought I could spend

1003
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: an hour and a half watching this octopus and this man,

1004
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 2: like have all these revelations about how we're visitors here,

1005
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 2: We're not here to indulge and consume nature, like, we're

1006
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 2: just visiting temporarily, and the nature, like the ocean is

1007
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: an organ that's got infinite wisdom, and you're just like

1008
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: bawling with like the world is amazing.

1009
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It's pretty bloody special. Hey, and just

1010
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: that again for me, I think the most powerful bit

1011
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: in it for me in terms of the recommendation you know,

1012
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: people from from my side, was just that, you know,

1013
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: just that power of that basic just that psychological emotional connection.

1014
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: You know, this is an octopus and a human. But

1015
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: the way the movie's done, and you know, just as

1016
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: you say, the journey you see it going on, it's

1017
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: just like this bond kind of formed, and you know,

1018
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: it just kind of strips all those other things away,

1019
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, all those other things that as modern day humans.

1020
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: We get thrown at us on a daily basis in

1021
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: terms of what's important and what we need to be

1022
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,439
Speaker 1: worrying about and doing with our lives and all these

1023
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: things that kind of though again it's between a human

1024
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: and an opopusa, just kind of frames that you know,

1025
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: actually just being together and connecting and you know, treasuring

1026
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: that is what actually matters.

1027
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: And totally yeah, I have two others as well that

1028
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: are so random, but I've been waiting to do them

1029
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks and then I've had guests

1030
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 2: and I've forgotten to as recommendations because like I did tonight,

1031
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: I was like, we'll be done in half an hour.

1032
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 2: It's been fifty minutes. So I'm so sorry. It's been

1033
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 2: such a lovely chat.

1034
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: Trust me, I can go on talking my ramboys for hours,

1035
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: you know that.

1036
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 2: So one of them is actually an Instagram page that

1037
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: makes me really really happy every time I see it.

1038
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: It's Jacob's Food Diaries. I don't know if you've heard

1039
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: of it, but it's a mum who makes her son's

1040
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: food look like Disney characters, Pixar characters, but like and

1041
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: she now she used to just post the static photos

1042
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 2: but now she posts the behind the scenes videos of

1043
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 2: how she made it, and I'm talking Picasso looking creations,

1044
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: like I don't.

1045
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: Know, out of what vegetables.

1046
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, vegetables, whatever she can find to make it look realistic.

1047
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't. I can't even explain. Like here,

1048
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 2: let me just show you. Her name is Leila. She's amazing.

1049
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: She's got like a quarter of a million followers. But

1050
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: for example, she made how do I show you Shrek

1051
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: with spaghetti?

1052
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: Holy crap? Looks like a.

1053
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: Right, it's I'm sure I'll obviously show you guys in

1054
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: the show notes, But that's a panda made of rice

1055
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: from Kung Fu Panda? Can you see that? What the

1056
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 2: heck isn't it insane? Like when you say she makes

1057
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 2: like peak characters out of food, you think, oh, yeah, okay, cool,

1058
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 2: she like makes a piece of look at the old lady.

1059
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: Wow, what's that have made out of potatoes or something?

1060
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: Mashed potato? Noodle's purple cabbage goji? Like how does she

1061
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: do it? It is so it is so incredible, but like, seriously,

1062
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 2: look at that. That's Terry Crews. That is crazy and

1063
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: it's all edible and you can't actually comprehend.

1064
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: Too, those little things that are just like, you know,

1065
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: just blow your mind. Look at on the cake.

1066
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I don't actually understand. It just makes me

1067
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 2: so happy that someone out there puts the effort in.

1068
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 2: This takes her hours, like someone puts the effort in

1069
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: because it brings joy. I just love that. So look

1070
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: at Micky and Minnie.

1071
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 1: That is yeah. I mean I struggle to just cook rice.

1072
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: The microwave rice for thirty seconds, really struggle.

1073
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to soak that plate.

1074
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 2: And the other one is a movie which again is

1075
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: really old, but I watched it again the other day

1076
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: with my mum and I just was in stitches. It's

1077
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 2: called The Banger Sisters. I don't know if you've seen it.

1078
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a chick flick, but it's one

1079
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 2: of those ones where you just like everyone has met

1080
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 2: each of the characters in their life at some point.

1081
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 2: Goldie Horn is like the So Goldie Horn and Susan

1082
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: surround and when they were younger were groupies who were

1083
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 2: with you know, they followed bands around in the sixties

1084
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 2: and seventies and like did a lot of drugs and

1085
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 2: were wild. And then Goldiehorn kind of stays wild, and

1086
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 2: Susan Surrounder gets married to like a banker and it

1087
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: becomes all proper, and Goldiehorn goes and Caesar like thirty

1088
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: years later, and it's just I kind of explained why

1089
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 2: it's funny, but it's just because we all know one

1090
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: of those people, like one of each people. And Goldie

1091
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: kind of reminds Susan how much she's suppressed of her

1092
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 2: yay self, and they start to like she's like this

1093
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: really proper lady with like a golf course membership and

1094
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: like beige suits, and she goes into a wardrobe and

1095
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 2: she's like everything I have is beige, and she has

1096
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: like this breakdown and then they get caught by her

1097
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: husband's smoking pot going through all their photos of themselves,

1098
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: like and her old self comes out. Like it's just

1099
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: so hysterical of like a woman finding herself again, and

1100
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: it like made me think of Platier like remembering how

1101
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: to play. I'm not endorsing smoking weed or joints, but

1102
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: it's just so beautiful watching her find life again and

1103
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,919
Speaker 2: like she went really beige and she found color again.

1104
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 2: It's just and they're hysterical actress, It's like it's amazing.

1105
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: It's a great I can feel that vibe. I can

1106
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: pull the psychiatrist's metaphor out of that.

1107
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like you could. I feel

1108
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: like there'd be a lot of psychiatrists going on like

1109
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 2: all that complex.

1110
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:07,959
Speaker 1: There is a you know again, right, it's like you say,

1111
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, not to psychiatrist that up

1112
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: too much, but yeah, you know that's again. I think

1113
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 1: that's what the pandemic has shown us is that, you know,

1114
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: life has some bloody, tough, tough stuff happening each and

1115
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: every day to a lot of people, but you know

1116
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: those tiny, ordinaryish little pockets of yeah, as you say,

1117
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: joy and connection and shared experience and yeah, I absolutely

1118
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: love that.

1119
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining me legend in

1120
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: the middle of the night at like one day's notice.

1121
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: Does that make me that guy that doesn't have any

1122
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: plans tomorrow?

1123
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? I can. Yeah, what type?

1124
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: What type tonight do you want to do now? Instead?

1125
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm free now.

1126
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: But I'm that obnoxious person who was like, can you

1127
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 2: do like one hour's time? I literally was like, Karen,

1128
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: it's Sunday, it's four pm. Can you do six pm? Sunday?

1129
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 2: Like this Sunday like now in two hours.

1130
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: We all know you're raging narcissism.

1131
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: Mate, It's fine, absolutely, Ashole, Well, thank you so much

1132
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: for brightening up my evening. If no one else is,

1133
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 2: this is such a.

1134
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: Joy, been an absolute pleasure. And like you say, I

1135
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: mean apologies to everyone that had to sit through some

1136
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: of that that rambling and those you didn't awful jokes

1137
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: from me. But you know, I think also you know

1138
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: your platform and what you're doing on it here, you

1139
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: know how much I love it and respect it, and

1140
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, to have the chance to come on and

1141
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: push you know, the mental health message, the men's health message,

1142
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: to combo those up up in some messy, semi coherent way,

1143
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's always super super special and humbling.

1144
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: So thank you, and you know, I hope, if anything,

1145
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: a takeaway from this for anyone listening is that you know,

1146
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: whether you're a man or a woman or anyone in between,

1147
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: you know wherever you are and whoever you are. You

1148
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: know it's okay to be struggling right now, and you're

1149
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 1: not alone if you are. And you know, like we

1150
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: said right back at the start, you're not just a drop.

1151
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,439
Speaker 1: You're you're the ocean inner drop, so you know you're

1152
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: worth reaching out for and talking out for and getting

1153
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: help for. So if that's signaling to a quack like

1154
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: me that you need a bit of help, that's cool.

1155
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: Or if it's signaling to a friend or a parent

1156
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: or a partner that you're not doing so well, especially

1157
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: if you're a guy, and that's hard, that's that's what

1158
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: we need to be doing. So yeah, thanks to you

1159
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: for letting me share that my friend, and.

1160
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 2: I'll pop some of Kieran's recommended links in the show

1161
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 2: notes as well for other resources. And there's a lot

1162
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: of helplines you can call if you want to go anonymous,

1163
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 2: and lots of resources in places, and I'm sure Kieran

1164
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 2: can share with us.

1165
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you,