WEBVTT - 'The Gap Year That Saved My Marriage’ 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:14.807 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges 0:00:14.847 --> 0:00:17.567 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.607 --> 0:00:23.407 is recorded on. The Invisible Woman still leaves quite the 0:00:23.447 --> 0:00:27.727 gap when she actually disappears, because you might not have 0:00:27.807 --> 0:00:31.087 seen her as she smoothed your path this morning to 0:00:31.127 --> 0:00:33.007 get out of the house in clean clothes with the 0:00:33.007 --> 0:00:36.167 full belly, petrol in the car, or charge on your card. 0:00:36.727 --> 0:00:38.847 You didn't see her paying the bills that catch your 0:00:38.847 --> 0:00:42.527 Wi Fi on your Netflix streaming, remembered to renew your 0:00:42.527 --> 0:00:46.727 gym membership, make that doctor's appointment, refill your prescription, reminded 0:00:46.767 --> 0:00:49.487 you to call your sister for her birthday. You were 0:00:49.567 --> 0:00:53.047 vaguely aware of her moving through the house, picking things up, 0:00:53.447 --> 0:00:57.647 setting things right, keeping things calm, making her work fit 0:00:57.767 --> 0:01:01.127 around what makes your will turn, putting herself at the 0:01:01.247 --> 0:01:04.567 end of every list, choosing to make other lives easier 0:01:04.567 --> 0:01:10.127 and brighter while hers fades into the scenery until she doesn't. 0:01:10.887 --> 0:01:14.127 When the Invisible Woman packs her bags and buggers right off, 0:01:14.567 --> 0:01:21.527 suddenly the space she filled is blindingly clear. Hello, I 0:01:21.607 --> 0:01:26.607 am Holly Wainwright and I am mid Midlife, Midfamily mid 0:01:26.647 --> 0:01:31.727 A rewatch of Shirley Valentine. Excuse my language, but fuck 0:01:32.087 --> 0:01:35.647 I forgot to live my life. This is the statement 0:01:35.767 --> 0:01:39.047 that popped into Monique Van Tulda's head on the day 0:01:39.167 --> 0:01:43.447 she decided to disappear, the mom to two almost grown 0:01:43.527 --> 0:01:46.887 up sons, wife to a man she'd been prioritizing for years. 0:01:47.287 --> 0:01:50.087 It took the sudden loss of an old love to 0:01:50.207 --> 0:01:54.207 shock her into what she now calls the great untethering. 0:01:54.847 --> 0:01:58.567 As you're about to hear. Soon after that, Monique decided 0:01:58.607 --> 0:02:01.407 it was time to take a grown up gap year. 0:02:02.127 --> 0:02:04.847 She went away to change some light bulbs, and she 0:02:04.887 --> 0:02:08.967 didn't come back for months. Her sons call it the 0:02:09.007 --> 0:02:11.727 time my mum got mad and took off. She calls 0:02:11.727 --> 0:02:14.647 it the decision that changed her life and saved her 0:02:14.647 --> 0:02:18.407 from a divorce and made her family see her value clearly, 0:02:19.007 --> 0:02:22.767 maybe for the first time. Since then, Monique has written 0:02:22.767 --> 0:02:25.167 a book called The grown Ups Gap Year and built 0:02:25.207 --> 0:02:27.727 a community of midlife women who want to escape their 0:02:27.767 --> 0:02:30.447 lives for a few weeks, a few months, for a 0:02:30.527 --> 0:02:34.047 year and travel, or to change their lives and study, 0:02:34.487 --> 0:02:37.927 or to renegotiate their lives and decide that their relationships 0:02:38.007 --> 0:02:42.647 need to change. Basically, women making a bid for freedom, 0:02:43.287 --> 0:02:45.527 and she couldn't have done it at a better time. 0:02:45.967 --> 0:02:49.687 Women make up seventy one percent of solo travelers these days, 0:02:49.967 --> 0:02:53.887 and Monique knows why. Now She's got a podcast and 0:02:53.927 --> 0:02:56.167 a site by the same name, grown Up Gap Year, 0:02:56.447 --> 0:03:00.687 and is regularly on TV espousing the benefit of the FLT. 0:03:01.327 --> 0:03:04.207 But the real secret, as she explains in this interview, 0:03:04.327 --> 0:03:08.007 is not settling back into sameness when you get back 0:03:08.247 --> 0:03:12.607 from that gap year. Manique's marriage, for example, was never 0:03:12.647 --> 0:03:20.527 the same again, and thank god for that, Monique, thank 0:03:20.527 --> 0:03:23.007 you so much for being here with me. Olly, it's 0:03:23.007 --> 0:03:27.287 a pinch me moment. Oh wow. I want to start 0:03:27.487 --> 0:03:30.767 with the statement that runs through a lot of what 0:03:30.807 --> 0:03:33.847 you're doing with the grown Up Gap Year, and that 0:03:34.087 --> 0:03:37.407 is you don't want to get to the end, and 0:03:37.447 --> 0:03:42.087 your epitaph to read fuck I forgot to live my life? Absolutely. 0:03:42.207 --> 0:03:46.007 Can you tell me about your moment when you are like, 0:03:46.527 --> 0:03:48.167 am I living my life? Yes? 0:03:48.567 --> 0:03:51.647 Well, it was a sad moment. It's quite a strong statement, 0:03:51.807 --> 0:03:54.207 and I think it probably took me about a decade 0:03:54.327 --> 0:03:54.927 to get there. 0:03:55.727 --> 0:03:56.767 I'll go back a little bit. 0:03:57.007 --> 0:04:00.247 We now have a wonderful conversation, a raw not a 0:04:00.327 --> 0:04:04.847 rumble about menopause and perimenopause, but that's very new, very new, 0:04:05.167 --> 0:04:09.047 and I am nearly fifty eight. And in my forties 0:04:09.567 --> 0:04:11.327 I went through a period of time where I thought, 0:04:12.127 --> 0:04:14.887 something's going on. Why am I not coping so well? 0:04:15.247 --> 0:04:21.367 And GPS had no training, I had no experience in 0:04:21.447 --> 0:04:23.647 what I might be experiencing. And my mother might have 0:04:23.727 --> 0:04:27.767 said to me metopause and I said, please go away, 0:04:27.967 --> 0:04:28.447 I mean my. 0:04:28.447 --> 0:04:30.887 Forties, and because we didn't know what it. 0:04:30.887 --> 0:04:32.767 Meant, and that just made me feel like I was 0:04:32.807 --> 0:04:34.767 going to be old and I wasn't ready for that. 0:04:34.847 --> 0:04:36.767 The only thing we used to know about it really 0:04:36.847 --> 0:04:38.847 is and I don't know about your mom, but my 0:04:38.967 --> 0:04:41.287 mom was quite like, oh, you'll be fine, tough it out. 0:04:41.287 --> 0:04:44.687 But also that's what happens when you get old well, 0:04:44.927 --> 0:04:46.607 and you do not feel old in your forties. No, 0:04:46.687 --> 0:04:49.247 we're not, No, well, you're not well. We absolutely went on. 0:04:49.647 --> 0:04:51.847 I had a couple of incidences in my forties where 0:04:51.927 --> 0:04:54.767 you know, I was very capable driver, and I used 0:04:54.767 --> 0:04:56.727 to drive all over the state for work, and then 0:04:56.767 --> 0:04:58.887 I was driving through the Sydney Harbor Tunnel once to 0:04:58.967 --> 0:05:01.127 drive the kids to rowing, and I thought, my god, 0:05:01.167 --> 0:05:02.567 I'm not going to make it to the other end. 0:05:02.687 --> 0:05:05.047 I am having a panic attack. I feel like there 0:05:05.087 --> 0:05:07.087 are lights and this is all closing in on me. 0:05:07.127 --> 0:05:10.567 And I thought, you know, pull yourself together, And actually 0:05:11.047 --> 0:05:13.847 I felt quite ashamed. I didn't tell anybody. And I 0:05:13.887 --> 0:05:16.967 spent the next ten years circumventing the city, dropping the 0:05:16.967 --> 0:05:19.367 boys to rowing all over the town, going across the 0:05:19.367 --> 0:05:21.687 Harbor Bridge without going in the tunnel, without going in 0:05:21.727 --> 0:05:23.287 the tunnel, and everyon would say, why you're not going 0:05:23.287 --> 0:05:25.687 in the tunnel. So it was quicker this way, and 0:05:25.807 --> 0:05:27.407 you know, I'd go to the GP and so on 0:05:27.447 --> 0:05:29.687 and so forth. So anyway, that was that, and just 0:05:29.767 --> 0:05:31.887 kept on going, and you know, we're busy with children, 0:05:31.927 --> 0:05:34.527 and we're busy with life and work and partners and etc. 0:05:34.807 --> 0:05:34.967 Etc. 0:05:35.767 --> 0:05:37.847 And then we were in COVID. 0:05:37.767 --> 0:05:40.047 And it was a hard time for everybody, although it 0:05:40.167 --> 0:05:42.087 sort of slowed down a little bit as well. So 0:05:42.327 --> 0:05:45.887 you know, waxed and waned, and I had two sons 0:05:45.967 --> 0:05:48.607 going through the HSC back to back online and that 0:05:48.687 --> 0:05:51.087 was interesting. And then I had news of a friend 0:05:51.127 --> 0:05:53.567 who had passed and it wasn't because of COVID, it 0:05:53.647 --> 0:05:55.647 just happened to be smack bang, you know, towards the 0:05:55.687 --> 0:05:59.767 tail end of and I think the human spirit can 0:06:00.007 --> 0:06:03.767 survive until there's one more thing and it doesn't really 0:06:03.847 --> 0:06:06.167 matter what the thing is. Although that was a shockingly 0:06:06.527 --> 0:06:10.807 hideous thing, but that was my thing. That's when I 0:06:10.887 --> 0:06:14.287 just fell apart, you know, almost didn't leave bed for 0:06:14.367 --> 0:06:17.247 about a month, and you know, walked around the block 0:06:17.287 --> 0:06:20.887 playing November Rain oh, and you know, had my husband 0:06:20.887 --> 0:06:23.687 sticking his head in, going like, I'm really sad for you, 0:06:23.727 --> 0:06:28.247 but like, this is another bloke. And this friend was 0:06:28.287 --> 0:06:30.967 a you know, forever friend and a long ago love 0:06:31.567 --> 0:06:33.447 and we weren't in each other's lives. You know, he 0:06:33.487 --> 0:06:35.327 had a family. I had a family, but it was 0:06:35.487 --> 0:06:38.367 just the thing. So it's interesting when your past collides 0:06:38.407 --> 0:06:39.087 with your present. 0:06:39.327 --> 0:06:43.647 It is. And also it's interesting when news like that, 0:06:44.087 --> 0:06:45.967 even though it's not the kind of grief that would 0:06:45.967 --> 0:06:47.807 affect you day to day, because as you say, it's 0:06:47.847 --> 0:06:50.487 not like there's a hole presented in your life by 0:06:50.527 --> 0:06:52.847 this person's passing because you weren't in each other's lives 0:06:52.887 --> 0:06:56.447 at that moment. But there's something about this time of 0:06:56.527 --> 0:06:59.247 life that a moment like that can just shock you 0:06:59.447 --> 0:07:03.087 so much because it's a cliche, but you're very aware 0:07:03.127 --> 0:07:06.207 of our mortality in that moment, and also that a 0:07:06.247 --> 0:07:09.527 part of your story has gone. It really shakes. 0:07:09.807 --> 0:07:12.527 One hundred percent and that's it. That is absolutely it. 0:07:12.647 --> 0:07:15.567 So devastated, very sad. And then you know, about a 0:07:15.607 --> 0:07:19.087 month later, I you know, I thought, oh gosh, you know, 0:07:19.127 --> 0:07:20.847 we used to have so much fun. I was a 0:07:20.887 --> 0:07:24.807 really fun person, used to live a life in technicolor, 0:07:24.847 --> 0:07:26.807 and we all do in our twenties and thirties, I 0:07:26.847 --> 0:07:29.807 mean really, And then I just thought, I am sad, 0:07:30.047 --> 0:07:34.447 sweaty and really pissed off most days, and is this it? 0:07:34.847 --> 0:07:37.767 You know, the kids are going to finish school eventually, please, 0:07:37.847 --> 0:07:40.607 you know, we'll come out of COVID, and then what 0:07:40.687 --> 0:07:42.287 on earth am I going? You know, what does life 0:07:42.287 --> 0:07:44.727 look like? What am I going to do? Cross with 0:07:44.807 --> 0:07:48.007 my husband because he had a career renaissance and he 0:07:48.087 --> 0:07:52.047 was booming and wonderfully loving sick, he was loving himself sick. 0:07:52.167 --> 0:07:54.967 And you know, we'd had a conversation prior to getting 0:07:54.967 --> 0:07:59.407 married about you know, raising children and expectations as much 0:07:59.407 --> 0:08:02.047 as you could twenty five years ago. But you know, 0:08:02.127 --> 0:08:04.207 there was an expectation it would be a fifty to 0:08:04.207 --> 0:08:07.367 fifty come to the table to look after things, and 0:08:07.447 --> 0:08:09.887 I'd gone into the slow slide of I was chief 0:08:10.007 --> 0:08:14.007 executive emotional officer of everything to do with the family. 0:08:14.847 --> 0:08:17.687 And it was never the parenting and the doing that 0:08:17.847 --> 0:08:20.887 was the thing that stuck in my craw. It was 0:08:20.887 --> 0:08:22.567 the extended family. 0:08:22.167 --> 0:08:23.047 That sort of rippled. 0:08:23.087 --> 0:08:26.687 You know, Moniques working from home, Monique's freelance, you know, 0:08:26.767 --> 0:08:29.727 she can take on whatever it is x YZN, And 0:08:29.767 --> 0:08:33.487 so all of a sudden, his elderly parents became your responsibility. 0:08:33.967 --> 0:08:37.607 Beautiful people since past rest in peace. But it wasn't 0:08:37.607 --> 0:08:39.727 what I felt like I signed up for. So anyway, 0:08:40.167 --> 0:08:43.367 friend passed and about a month later I went walking 0:08:43.687 --> 0:08:45.767 as I do every morning, and I passed a group 0:08:45.807 --> 0:08:48.727 of elderly women. And I say elderly because I don't 0:08:48.767 --> 0:08:50.727 like to use that word, but honestly, they're probably in 0:08:50.767 --> 0:08:54.647 their nineties. They were older women, and they were having 0:08:54.767 --> 0:08:56.967 so much fun down at the beach. They were jumping 0:08:56.967 --> 0:08:58.807 in the water, they were helping each other get out, 0:08:58.847 --> 0:09:00.407 and they were having a ball. And I thought, I 0:09:00.447 --> 0:09:03.407 want some of whatever they're having. This has got to stop. 0:09:03.447 --> 0:09:05.847 Something's got to change. And I loved swimming and I 0:09:05.887 --> 0:09:07.487 hadn't for a long time. So the next morning, it 0:09:07.527 --> 0:09:09.647 was a July, freezing cold winter morning. 0:09:09.927 --> 0:09:11.847 I got up early. The kids were, you know, still 0:09:11.887 --> 0:09:12.287 at school. 0:09:12.287 --> 0:09:13.967 Everyone was asleep, and I went for a swim in 0:09:13.967 --> 0:09:15.847 the ocean and I just looked down and there were 0:09:15.887 --> 0:09:18.047 fish and there were sand, and I felt free. And 0:09:18.167 --> 0:09:20.567 that was the point at which I thought, righty ho, 0:09:21.327 --> 0:09:23.607 if you see k I'm not going to let my 0:09:23.647 --> 0:09:26.287 epitaph read I forgot to live my life. And that 0:09:26.367 --> 0:09:28.967 was a very long version of a should have been 0:09:29.007 --> 0:09:29.687 a shorter armwer. 0:09:29.727 --> 0:09:33.647 So that's it. It's what you've done is encapsulated. I 0:09:33.687 --> 0:09:36.007 think for very many people listening to this will be nodding. 0:09:36.087 --> 0:09:40.247 They're going, yeah, like things started out in my relationship 0:09:40.247 --> 0:09:42.327 with my family, like we're both doing this, we're all 0:09:42.327 --> 0:09:44.607 doing this, and then suddenly, hold on, how come I'm 0:09:44.687 --> 0:09:48.607 holding everybody's emotional well being in my hands? All of 0:09:48.647 --> 0:09:51.487 the drudge? And where am I on this list? So 0:09:51.727 --> 0:09:53.967 does this bring us to the bit that, as you 0:09:54.007 --> 0:09:57.327 say in your book, is that time mum got mad 0:09:57.887 --> 0:10:00.487 and took off? Is that what happened? 0:10:00.687 --> 0:10:04.607 Yes, indeed, I like to call it the great untether Ring. Yes, 0:10:05.007 --> 0:10:07.447 my family call it the time Mum got mad and 0:10:07.487 --> 0:10:08.207 took off, So. 0:10:08.247 --> 0:10:09.407 Yes, it does well. 0:10:09.567 --> 0:10:11.967 It was actually that was probably six months later because 0:10:12.207 --> 0:10:14.167 you know, i'd sort of the kids got through school, 0:10:14.447 --> 0:10:15.887 and I think we all see a bit of a 0:10:15.887 --> 0:10:18.127 finish line for our offspring. 0:10:18.167 --> 0:10:18.887 At the end of school. 0:10:18.927 --> 0:10:21.287 You sort of think, oh, you might breathe a little 0:10:21.287 --> 0:10:23.527 bit and there might be a bit of me time. 0:10:23.567 --> 0:10:25.567 There might be a bit of us time if you're coupled. 0:10:25.967 --> 0:10:29.527 And then that didn't happen because kidults tend to stay 0:10:29.527 --> 0:10:30.887 at home and in the nest for longer. 0:10:30.927 --> 0:10:32.087 And I mean, honestly, they're eighteen. 0:10:32.127 --> 0:10:34.807 I'm hardly kicking them out, although I think, you know, 0:10:34.887 --> 0:10:38.887 the inker barely dried and my sister and I certificate, 0:10:39.047 --> 0:10:40.967 you know, leaving certificate at school, and it was like, 0:10:41.047 --> 0:10:43.527 you know, we were showing showing the door, have a 0:10:43.567 --> 0:10:46.487 lovely life to see you at Christmas. But anyway, and 0:10:47.127 --> 0:10:49.807 so I probably hadn't spent any time sort of really 0:10:49.807 --> 0:10:52.487 thinking about what on earth came next, and I was pooped. 0:10:52.727 --> 0:10:55.567 So yes, that's when Mum took off. So it started 0:10:55.607 --> 0:10:59.007 with the swim that day of you almost just reclaiming 0:10:59.607 --> 0:11:02.247 a bit of joy for yourself a bit of this 0:11:02.287 --> 0:11:05.047 is who I was. This is remember you love swimming, 0:11:05.127 --> 0:11:07.647 you know, just that kind of thing. Yes. And then 0:11:07.727 --> 0:11:09.607 over that period of time to that six months of 0:11:09.647 --> 0:11:12.847 when you went actually i'm going I'm leaving for a while, 0:11:13.887 --> 0:11:16.847 did the idea start bubbling in your head? Because I 0:11:16.887 --> 0:11:19.207 think am I right that in the first instance, you've 0:11:19.247 --> 0:11:22.207 got a holiday house. Yes, in Queensland? Yes, And is 0:11:22.207 --> 0:11:23.407 that where you're from? Look? 0:11:23.527 --> 0:11:25.167 Yes, and no I was born in New Zealand. We 0:11:25.167 --> 0:11:27.727 don't need to go in one ak's whole bio. But yes, 0:11:27.807 --> 0:11:30.367 my family had lived in the wit Sundays for about 0:11:30.487 --> 0:11:32.007 thirty five years, so yes. 0:11:31.927 --> 0:11:33.927 Yes, So that's kind of like an area that you've 0:11:33.967 --> 0:11:36.807 got a connection torect So you had a holiday house 0:11:36.887 --> 0:11:39.807 up there. And my understanding is at the beginning of 0:11:39.847 --> 0:11:43.087 this the whole Mum got Madden took off. You just 0:11:43.607 --> 0:11:45.887 I'm going there. That's what I'm doing. I'm going to 0:11:45.967 --> 0:11:48.127 change some light bulbs. And then you didn't come back 0:11:48.127 --> 0:11:51.047 for six months? Was it like that? Absolutely? Did you 0:11:51.087 --> 0:11:51.567 plot it? 0:11:51.647 --> 0:11:54.167 No, it was not premeditation. It taught me through that 0:11:54.407 --> 0:11:55.807 I quite catually. 0:11:55.887 --> 0:11:56.927 I actually went with Mum. 0:11:56.927 --> 0:11:59.287 It was the first flight out of Sydney after COVID 0:11:59.327 --> 0:12:01.447 and I remember taking off looking out going. 0:12:01.327 --> 0:12:04.727 Oh, so we'd been literally trapped. I mean different Obviously, 0:12:04.767 --> 0:12:06.687 listeners to this will be in different states. Our Melbourne 0:12:06.727 --> 0:12:08.887 listeners will be like, trapped, you don't know the meaning 0:12:08.887 --> 0:12:11.567 of the world. Wa listeners will be like, what are 0:12:11.567 --> 0:12:15.047 you talking about? But in Sydney we'd been literally on 0:12:15.127 --> 0:12:17.607 lockdown for quite some time at that point. And when 0:12:17.607 --> 0:12:21.047 they opened the borders to Queensland, you were like, gone, 0:12:21.207 --> 0:12:22.687 is that? Did you know you were going to do that? 0:12:22.727 --> 0:12:24.487 Well? I knew I was going to go and check 0:12:24.527 --> 0:12:26.687 the house hadn't been for about four years, I suppose 0:12:26.727 --> 0:12:28.887 at that point, and took Mum with me so she 0:12:28.887 --> 0:12:31.127 could go and see her friends. And then Mum went 0:12:31.167 --> 0:12:33.487 home after about five nights, and I was booked to 0:12:33.567 --> 0:12:35.847 go home the next day after locking up the house, 0:12:36.407 --> 0:12:39.887 and sat and watched the sunrise and had a hot coffee, 0:12:40.447 --> 0:12:42.807 and you know, I sort of say after years of 0:12:42.887 --> 0:12:46.327 lukewarm everything, and it was the hot coffee, quite literally, 0:12:46.367 --> 0:12:49.007 the hot coffee that I just thought, I'm a grown up. 0:12:49.207 --> 0:12:50.007 My children are. 0:12:49.927 --> 0:12:54.207 Through school, my husband as happy as can be. I'm 0:12:54.247 --> 0:12:57.047 not thrilled with things right now. And where am I 0:12:57.127 --> 0:13:00.527 hurrying to and why am I hurrying? And everybody is 0:13:00.607 --> 0:13:03.487 safe and cared for, and I'm going to stay. 0:13:03.607 --> 0:13:04.847 So I drove to. 0:13:05.247 --> 0:13:08.607 The post office and got a post office box number, 0:13:08.647 --> 0:13:11.447 which was my life in the sand, which hence the 0:13:11.527 --> 0:13:13.887 mum got mad bit because really it sounds mad. Was 0:13:13.927 --> 0:13:15.687 my hus We're going to send me a postcard saying 0:13:15.807 --> 0:13:18.527 have a nice time, I'll see you. I don't know 0:13:18.847 --> 0:13:20.847 when you come back from under a palm tree. I 0:13:20.847 --> 0:13:24.327 had zero plan, Holly. It was ridiculous, but yes, that's 0:13:24.327 --> 0:13:25.567 what I did, and then I stayed. 0:13:26.047 --> 0:13:29.407 So did you call and say I might be another week, 0:13:29.527 --> 0:13:31.407 or did you I might be another month? Or did 0:13:31.447 --> 0:13:34.647 you like how did it? I'm just imagined the temptation. 0:13:34.767 --> 0:13:36.847 I think many of us can relate to that idea 0:13:36.927 --> 0:13:38.967 of I don't want to go home. I'm not ready 0:13:39.007 --> 0:13:41.487 to go home. And then you're like, I'm actually not 0:13:41.527 --> 0:13:43.687 going to get on that plane. Did you call them 0:13:43.727 --> 0:13:45.567 and say I'm not getting on the plane? Oh, I 0:13:45.647 --> 0:13:47.687 just I turned my phone off. I sent an email. 0:13:47.927 --> 0:13:49.967 Look it's breath taking, it really is. 0:13:50.007 --> 0:13:52.207 And then look, you know we had we proceeded this 0:13:52.327 --> 0:13:54.687 part of the conversation with hormone, so who knows, But 0:13:54.847 --> 0:13:57.087 really I probably wasn't in my right mind. 0:13:57.127 --> 0:13:58.087 I just I was. 0:13:58.167 --> 0:14:01.967 Really tired and responsible people don't tend to do these 0:14:01.967 --> 0:14:04.567 sorts of things. I know that, but I just wanted 0:14:04.607 --> 0:14:07.727 to feel Can a fifty eight year old woman say naughty? 0:14:07.727 --> 0:14:09.607 But I wanted to say naughty again. 0:14:10.007 --> 0:14:10.767 I just wanted to. 0:14:10.727 --> 0:14:14.167 Feel like I was in control of my own decisions, 0:14:14.167 --> 0:14:16.567 that I didn't need a committee for every decision. And 0:14:16.607 --> 0:14:20.087 I think I was just staking my claim to my 0:14:20.127 --> 0:14:21.087 own life. 0:14:20.807 --> 0:14:21.727 And that was it. 0:14:22.167 --> 0:14:24.127 And so I sent an email, and my husband did 0:14:24.127 --> 0:14:27.367 call my mother and say issue okay. Mom said, well, 0:14:27.527 --> 0:14:29.207 when I saw her a day ago, she seemed to 0:14:29.207 --> 0:14:31.287 be pretty fine to me. You know, do you need 0:14:31.327 --> 0:14:34.127 to know how to use the oven and the fridge? 0:14:34.367 --> 0:14:37.127 Is you know foolish? I'll come and show you once 0:14:37.167 --> 0:14:39.847 and then enjoy. So your mom was on site with him, 0:14:40.047 --> 0:14:41.247 was very much on side. 0:14:41.327 --> 0:14:42.207 That Did I call her? 0:14:42.207 --> 0:14:44.247 Maybe I didn't, maybe I emailed her too, but she 0:14:44.247 --> 0:14:45.687 could read between the lines. 0:14:45.887 --> 0:14:48.767 She could see that you obviously so. And I have 0:14:48.807 --> 0:14:50.047 a fabulous husband. 0:14:50.047 --> 0:14:52.487 He's lovely, but he's not particularly evolved as many of 0:14:52.527 --> 0:14:55.687 his generation, as in I can't cook. You know, I 0:14:55.687 --> 0:14:57.847 don't know how to look after myself in that regards, 0:14:57.887 --> 0:14:59.127 and it's like, come on, you can read. 0:14:59.167 --> 0:15:00.527 I think you can figure it out. You can figure 0:15:00.567 --> 0:15:02.687 it out. So you know, there's a thing called uber eats. 0:15:02.727 --> 0:15:03.527 I don't know if you've heard of it. 0:15:03.607 --> 0:15:06.127 Oh exactly, I don't know. I figured it out anyway, 0:15:06.207 --> 0:15:08.127 So we'll get on to the rest of it later. 0:15:08.207 --> 0:15:09.927 He has evolved since then, and it was very good 0:15:09.967 --> 0:15:13.007 for him too, So yes, sent an email, turned the 0:15:13.007 --> 0:15:16.567 phone off, took the phone calls, and later on probably 0:15:16.607 --> 0:15:18.967 in the week, and you know, everyone just sort of 0:15:19.007 --> 0:15:20.327 got on with it for a bit, and there was 0:15:20.367 --> 0:15:22.287 sort of I left hanging for how long it was 0:15:22.327 --> 0:15:24.327 going to be because I thought, look, maybe I'll just 0:15:24.327 --> 0:15:25.647 stay for a week and then I'll come back. 0:15:26.207 --> 0:15:28.327 But I the week turned into. 0:15:28.287 --> 0:15:30.687 About a month, and then I came home and I 0:15:30.727 --> 0:15:32.847 did feel the freezer, because you know, I thought that 0:15:32.887 --> 0:15:36.087 would be a nice thingible caring. Well, I just thought, like, 0:15:36.127 --> 0:15:38.607 I'll show everyone what to do. I possibly could have 0:15:38.647 --> 0:15:40.967 left a few instructions, because you know, if you handle 0:15:41.007 --> 0:15:44.127 a position, any sort of position, then you didn't you know, 0:15:44.167 --> 0:15:46.567 you do have a handover period and so you know 0:15:46.607 --> 0:15:49.047 I wasn't a responsible person in that regard, so I 0:15:49.047 --> 0:15:52.007 thought that'd be nice and then headed back because I 0:15:52.007 --> 0:15:55.087 could work from up there remotely, and I saw no 0:15:55.167 --> 0:15:57.767 good reason to return immediately I needed to. 0:15:58.007 --> 0:16:00.007 It sounds great. Sit for a minute. I can't want 0:16:00.047 --> 0:16:02.247 to come to the Sundays with you, But tell me 0:16:02.927 --> 0:16:05.087 in that first month when you were literally just sort 0:16:05.127 --> 0:16:07.567 of as you say, you weren't necessarily in your right 0:16:07.647 --> 0:16:10.447 mind in terms of well, actually, the words you just 0:16:10.567 --> 0:16:13.247 used is responsible people don't do this kind of thing. 0:16:13.447 --> 0:16:16.447 That's really interesting, because interesting it sounds like you had 0:16:16.487 --> 0:16:19.527 been being responsible, being the good parent, being the good 0:16:19.527 --> 0:16:24.007 wife for a long time. What was that first month like? Like, 0:16:24.047 --> 0:16:27.167 what did you do? And did you how long did 0:16:27.207 --> 0:16:30.367 it take for your body and your mind to sort. 0:16:30.167 --> 0:16:35.767 Of It was exhilarating because I guess I was from there. 0:16:35.807 --> 0:16:37.447 I'd lived there for a couple of years in my 0:16:37.487 --> 0:16:40.487 early twenties. You know, it was reacquainting myself with the 0:16:40.527 --> 0:16:42.887 community I hadn't been in for a long time. And 0:16:43.087 --> 0:16:44.927 you know, we can get into the whys and wherefores, 0:16:45.007 --> 0:16:48.767 but you know, Sydney, where I live predominantly, was never 0:16:48.807 --> 0:16:51.527 my hometown. It was always my husband's hometown, so I 0:16:51.527 --> 0:16:54.567 guess by default I just sort of slid into his life, 0:16:54.607 --> 0:16:57.247 I suppose, And so all of a sudden, I felt 0:16:57.247 --> 0:17:00.047 like I was reclaiming my past. And it's interesting you 0:17:00.087 --> 0:17:03.367 get to a point where that's really comforting. I think 0:17:03.407 --> 0:17:06.527 sometimes we spend a lot of time escaping or you know, 0:17:06.607 --> 0:17:09.767 seeking greener pastures, and sometimes it's quite used to come 0:17:09.767 --> 0:17:10.487 home to roost. 0:17:10.527 --> 0:17:13.087 And I was pooped, I think, you know, everything every bit. 0:17:12.967 --> 0:17:16.047 About me was frazzled, and it just sort of soothed, 0:17:16.487 --> 0:17:19.047 and you know, I got back into a fitness routine 0:17:19.047 --> 0:17:20.847 that I hadn't done for a long time. I made 0:17:20.847 --> 0:17:24.167 food for myself. I'd come back into the house exactly 0:17:24.167 --> 0:17:26.367 as I left the house. I think that was the 0:17:26.407 --> 0:17:26.927 biggest thing. 0:17:27.127 --> 0:17:29.087 That is one of the most glorious things. 0:17:29.407 --> 0:17:32.647 Made my half of the bed only very nice. You know. 0:17:32.887 --> 0:17:35.607 Washing machine awa eating exactly what you want one hundred percent. 0:17:35.687 --> 0:17:39.487 Washing machine went on once a week. And interestingly, during 0:17:39.527 --> 0:17:41.447 the COVID period, a lot of the properties in our 0:17:41.487 --> 0:17:45.327 neighborhood had turned over, and there seemed to be about 0:17:45.327 --> 0:17:47.807 half a dozen of us in terms of us being 0:17:47.847 --> 0:17:51.847 women of about my age whose husband you know husbands 0:17:51.847 --> 0:17:55.567 lived elsewhere, and so I thought, the little community I 0:17:55.607 --> 0:17:58.447 have kindred spirits here, Maybe it's not just me after all. 0:17:58.567 --> 0:18:00.487 And that was it, and I started sharing on Instagram. 0:18:00.527 --> 0:18:03.367 I've always been on Instagram. It's like my journal, I suppose, 0:18:03.887 --> 0:18:06.847 and we've got a nice community. And I thought, look, 0:18:06.847 --> 0:18:09.327 I'll be a bit hesitant about this because you know, 0:18:09.807 --> 0:18:12.087 many of us are still in the trenches, and b 0:18:12.447 --> 0:18:15.167 it isn't an option for a lot of people. But 0:18:15.567 --> 0:18:17.647 I don't know, maybe if I just start saying, hang on, 0:18:17.847 --> 0:18:20.527 just stop it. Wherever you are, whatever your circumstances are, 0:18:20.687 --> 0:18:22.567 just stop for two seconds and think, where are you 0:18:22.607 --> 0:18:26.287 sitting on the list of priorities? Yes, and lots of 0:18:26.327 --> 0:18:29.647 women said, keep running for us. Let us know what 0:18:29.687 --> 0:18:31.687 it's like on the other side. You know, we see 0:18:31.687 --> 0:18:33.967 a light now. This is kind of cool. And of 0:18:33.967 --> 0:18:35.727 course lots of us are talking about it now, and 0:18:35.727 --> 0:18:40.407 there's lots of wonderful books about menopause and women's experiences. 0:18:40.407 --> 0:18:43.287 But at that point there was Eat, Pray, Love under 0:18:43.327 --> 0:18:45.527 the Tuscan Sun and Shirley Valentine. 0:18:45.527 --> 0:18:48.447