Speaker 1: These are the yeays of our lives. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore
Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your yea. I'm
Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned
Speaker 1: entrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found
Speaker 1: Matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar.
Speaker 2: Sez the Ya is.
Speaker 1: A series of conversations on finding a life you love
Speaker 1: and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along
Speaker 1: the way.
Speaker 2: Oh christiando sup detectors.
Speaker 1: If there are any mcgrub girls listening, they'll know.
Speaker 2: You would use terrible subject what I said.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Yay's of our lives, guys, I finally
Speaker 1: have a voice back after weeks and a week because
Speaker 1: I was so anal about pre recording so many episodes
Speaker 1: so that we wouldn't have a single break during the honeymoon,
Speaker 1: and I managed to upload like to our suppose a
Speaker 1: week from Egypt, but then had to take a month
Speaker 1: off when I I know you hadn't.
Speaker 2: You've had a spell of illness, haven't you. I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm a bad to. It's my voice that a
Speaker 2: bad run. Had a bad run.
Speaker 1: You lose your voice because you've been we had a
Speaker 1: sleep over.
Speaker 2: What was that car outside? It's a very loud vehicle.
Speaker 1: Anyway, welcome back, then, welcome, No, welcome you back.
Speaker 2: From Egypt? Have you missed us? God?
Speaker 1: So, as you all know, we've had a little break.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your patience.
Speaker 2: I just was not well.
Speaker 1: My voice was not great and I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I could bring the full yay for the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks.
Speaker 2: But we're back.
Speaker 1: So we did have on the schedule a sort of
Speaker 1: Egypt honeymoon rap and a catch up. Lots of neighborhood
Speaker 1: watch stories have happened over the past little while.
Speaker 2: But then I did a little.
Speaker 1: Ask Me Anything anonymously Q and A, and that brought
Speaker 1: up some fascinating questions. Firstly, I just want to say
Speaker 1: the yighborhood is so lovely. A couple of people who
Speaker 1: have opened themselves up to anonymous questions have not had
Speaker 1: a very nice time, And I have only had the
Speaker 1: most respectful, loving kind curiosity, and I'm so so grateful
Speaker 1: for that. But they've also been really interesting questions, like
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of reflection.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just would like to provide some feedback. I
Speaker 2: submitted an anonymous question and I was tagged in my response.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that makes it not anonymous.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I left the veil your identity.
Speaker 2: You didn't answer the question.
Speaker 1: Do you know if I had done a poll an
Speaker 1: Instagram wide pole on who that question was from, there
Speaker 1: is not even one chance that anyone wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to get I don't even know why I used five
Speaker 1: thousand negatives just then everyone would have known it was you.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you didn't answer the question, but I think
Speaker 2: deserves an answer doing it for the people. The question
Speaker 2: was do you do silent and deadly's or are you
Speaker 2: allowed farder?
Speaker 1: I mean both?
Speaker 2: You were such a silent such.
Speaker 1: Yeah, majority, but I can also do like in DEALI No,
Speaker 1: you can't you care DELI. I can dabble, but your
Speaker 1: allowed is still smelly. Okay, well, you know I like
Speaker 1: to overachieve in all areas.
Speaker 2: But you see that didn't start again, Gal start again.
Speaker 2: I bet you didn't see that one coming in this episode.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I probably could have guessed that you
Speaker 1: were going to bring it up because you were very
Speaker 1: passive aggressive.
Speaker 2: Ever, the fact that I didn't directly answer you.
Speaker 1: So we had seriously some of the most interesting questions.
Speaker 1: You guys know that I throth the chance to answer
Speaker 1: questions about just life, not necessarily straightforward questions either, like
Speaker 1: philosophical reflective questions. So would you rather? Is my favorite
Speaker 1: game in the entire universe, as Ange loves to join
Speaker 1: in with, but Nick absolutely hates top fives. If I've
Speaker 1: ever sat down with you, if I've ever traveled with
Speaker 1: you on a long card drive, I've probably asked what
Speaker 1: your top favorite like fruits and vegetables are and why
Speaker 1: or modes of transformed Like I just think you learned
Speaker 1: so much about a person that you wouldn't get to do.
Speaker 1: So having this many beautiful questions has been really nice,
Speaker 1: you know, chance to reflect for myself, and I answered
Speaker 1: as many as I could with like sa long answers
Speaker 1: because I really wanted to be thorough.
Speaker 2: I was like, you can't resume. I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, actually I'm dizzy, but very helpful.
Speaker 1: Well, I am so glad they introduced that new font,
Speaker 1: you know, the default one that now comes up on stories,
Speaker 1: because it's like narrow socus letters in. It's just like,
Speaker 1: I don't want each one to like spill over onto
Speaker 1: a new frame because there's so many. Anyway, So the
Speaker 1: ones that I did get a chance to answer, I've
Speaker 1: saved in a little highlight because they were quite detailed answers.
Speaker 1: But then there were just so many more questions than
Speaker 1: I expected, and I thought we'd pop it in a
Speaker 1: little episode before we get to our normal days of Allies,
Speaker 1: which will now be the next episode. And if you
Speaker 1: want to skip, you know, straightforward to your question, that's
Speaker 1: totally fine. I'll listen them in order so you can
Speaker 1: kind of find I might even do a transcript so
Speaker 1: you can see the time marker of the answer. But
Speaker 1: I thought that particularly around adoption and fertility and conception,
Speaker 1: those were the main questions I got it. Instagram really
Speaker 1: isn't deep enough to kind of get into things. So
Speaker 1: I've lifted them all and divided them all by topic.
Speaker 1: We've got adoption fertility slash conception match, a maiden career
Speaker 1: kind of questions, lifestyle questions and then some fun fast
Speaker 1: fire ones at the end. And you all know I've
Speaker 1: tried monologues before, and I kind of laugh a lot
Speaker 1: of my own jokes, so I thought getting it and
Speaker 1: on board during how our first catch up sleepover in Ages.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so fun. I love it. I used
Speaker 2: to well, I self invited myself because like you never
Speaker 2: invited anywhere anymore as a joke obviously, And I said,
Speaker 2: what do you mean, how can I invite you when I'm.
Speaker 1: Self invited to your house? You kind of just announced
Speaker 1: it to both of us. I booked you and we
Speaker 1: were your plus one and two. It was really cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it made them come to dinner with me,
Speaker 2: So I was in lonely and then I said, I'm
Speaker 2: going to also then sleep at your house.
Speaker 1: Get the bed rend We've got a little ang doner
Speaker 1: and a pillow and it's we make a little like
Speaker 1: ang nest. Yeah, well night's coming out to dinner.
Speaker 2: We haven't done that.
Speaker 3: It is a love a.
Speaker 2: Week day off. It's like the old times again.
Speaker 1: It's like this so okay side note, I reckon at
Speaker 1: the career section, you'll be able to weigh in quite
Speaker 1: a lot on the questions about sort of being restless
Speaker 1: and having multi passionate direction, kind of being pulled in
Speaker 1: different directions. So we'll definitely get into that. But An
Speaker 1: has two adios at the moment. You work the weekend
Speaker 1: and two deals, yeah, which is so great, and she
Speaker 1: gets a little taste again of being able to just
Speaker 1: dress up in.
Speaker 2: Carrot costumes on my days, pretty much what we did
Speaker 2: before this episode.
Speaker 1: It's also one and we woke up like all have
Speaker 1: done his work up my name breakfast.
Speaker 2: It's literally we've done all day.
Speaker 1: And we're a carrot costume. Do you even carry it
Speaker 1: all about your work advice?
Speaker 2: If I have every time I dressed up in that
Speaker 2: costume and you said that exact same.
Speaker 1: Phrase, what else am I going to say about it?
Speaker 2: Fifty? Wait?
Speaker 1: So I only half mentioned it that one time. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's kick off with adoption.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of questions on that, and enough
Speaker 1: questions I think that I'm actually going to get a
Speaker 1: fellow adoptee on to do a full episode because that
Speaker 1: would be really fun, and also I think I'm going
Speaker 1: to get someone on who's also had their own biological
Speaker 1: children since then, So stay tuned for a deeper chat
Speaker 1: and please think about some questions you like for that one.
Speaker 1: But for now, the questions that we were asked are
Speaker 1: as follows. We. By we, I mean me and the
Speaker 1: big pimple on my chinen. Okay, once an episode, it's
Speaker 1: our standard for in that we have one joke that
Speaker 1: is not funny to anybody else except us, and even
Speaker 1: if we're explo okay, try and explain it.
Speaker 2: So a few episodes back, when I had my big
Speaker 2: cold saw, we were laughing because we got it. Kat
Speaker 2: did we call it? I was talking about you know,
Speaker 2: cold saws in mind gone away, and Sarah said something
Speaker 2: about it. She's like, oh, I'm so sad theod and
Speaker 2: I lost it. I was you know, when you're in
Speaker 2: one of those states where everything's just holidous. So now
Speaker 2: that's stuck and Sarah feels like she's got a lot
Speaker 2: of pimples when she's got like, I've got a katut behove,
Speaker 2: and so now we call pimples any kind of facial lumps. Yeah,
Speaker 2: appearances katut behood was in the neighborhood of Katut.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't cut the same ring as yeah, because
Speaker 1: it does not rhyme with nay.
Speaker 2: But it's so funny. Please censer pictures of your if
Speaker 2: you have anything that can be.
Speaker 1: Then in this episodes, I have to do more Easter
Speaker 1: eggs we do okay, this week's East d egg please
Speaker 1: d m us your and also what name you name them?
Speaker 1: Like some my pimples used to be Gavin? Yeah, catu
Speaker 1: became part of the world.
Speaker 2: Okay. Questions first theme is adoption. First question is have
Speaker 2: I met or what I consider finding my biological or
Speaker 2: your biological But.
Speaker 1: I was like, you adopted to I didn't know what
Speaker 1: these questions have you met what you consider finding? I wrote,
Speaker 1: I had to retype them all out in order, so
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can describe them.
Speaker 2: Probably okay.
Speaker 1: I also disclaimer I've probably answered if you're a regular
Speaker 1: listener or have listened from the beginning, I probably answered
Speaker 1: most of these questions before, so you can skip through
Speaker 1: if you onto, or maybe my answer have changed. But
Speaker 1: I feel like if people have asked the question, they
Speaker 1: might not have been able to find the answer before.
Speaker 1: So for this first one, I have never met my
Speaker 1: birth parents, and I am.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily deeply.
Speaker 1: Motivated to do so. I think there's a couple of
Speaker 1: factors in that. Firstly, in Korea in the eighties when
Speaker 1: I was adopted, it was obviously a very different country.
Speaker 1: It was a lot less developed the eighties. In general,
Speaker 1: documents weren't digitized. It's very difficult, Like logistically, it is
Speaker 1: very very difficult, particularly cross culturally and cross country adoption.
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to find out that information. So firstly,
Speaker 1: there's that big hurdle. Often the birth father wasn't even
Speaker 1: recorded at all. There's sort of societal expectations and stuff
Speaker 1: that made it difficult to even Yeah, sometimes that information
Speaker 1: was never there, even if it is, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people are often motivated by feeling a bit
Speaker 1: of a gap in their identity. I've never felt that
Speaker 1: I've had the most beautiful upbringing. My family, my adoptive family,
Speaker 1: I don't even call them that. That feels weird because
Speaker 1: of their my family. I have never had the feeling of
Speaker 1: missing something that often drives that search. So no is
Speaker 1: the short answer. But if it was made very easy,
Speaker 1: like if for example, you could just tick a box
Speaker 1: or they turned off my doorstep, I would not say no.
Speaker 1: I definitely be curious to see them and know what
Speaker 1: they look like. Medical history is a really big thing
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about in the context of something else.
Speaker 1: I would not not be curious. It's just that you've
Speaker 1: got to really really want it for it's taken some
Speaker 1: people that I know thirteen fourteen years. Sometimes it opens
Speaker 1: up wormholes of things you maybe didn't need to know about,
Speaker 1: circumstances of your adoption that could be traumatic, whereas you
Speaker 1: know without knowing that it doesn't affect my life, the
Speaker 1: fact that I don't, So no, I haven't met them,
Speaker 1: and now I'm not desperate too. But I have met
Speaker 1: my foster family and that.
Speaker 2: Was really beautiful.
Speaker 1: So once you're adopted, your adoptive family can pay extra
Speaker 1: for you to be fostered with a family instep like,
Speaker 1: so you get a family environment instead of being just
Speaker 1: in the orphanage. And I was with a family Missus Kim.
Speaker 1: Even though everyone in Korea is called missus Kim. There's
Speaker 1: only five surnames pretty much in Korea, Kim, Park, hollow Lee, Holloway, Davidson,
Speaker 1: and I was her first child that she fostered she's fostered,
Speaker 1: you know, tens and maybe I don't even know how
Speaker 1: many children, but I've been back to meet her and
Speaker 1: that was really beautiful because she has photos of me
Speaker 1: when I was little and remembers me as a baby,
Speaker 1: so that was really special.
Speaker 2: On the back of that, have you ever wondered how
Speaker 2: life would have been like if you were in Korea
Speaker 2: or grew up in Korea?
Speaker 1: Always I reflect on that all the time, and especially
Speaker 1: in the eighties. It was a much poorer country. The
Speaker 1: opportunity for women were very different and limited access to education.
Speaker 1: You know, there was sex, slavery and trafficking and all
Speaker 1: kinds of things, and you know, I mean, I haven't
Speaker 1: researched it enormously, but it could have been a very
Speaker 1: very different life. Like Mum cries all the time thinking
Speaker 1: about that, and I think it's what makes me so
Speaker 1: keen to do so many things, is because I am,
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind so acutely aware of
Speaker 1: how lucky we are to be here. I think everyone
Speaker 1: who lives in Australia now is lucky to be here,
Speaker 1: but I have that extra layer of knowing I might
Speaker 1: not have been, so I'm even more like well, I
Speaker 1: can't waste my spot like this is such a sliding
Speaker 1: doors moment. I did nothing to deserve to get adopted.
Speaker 1: I did nothing to deserve a better chance. And it's
Speaker 1: as I get older, especially I think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you know you're not You're born into certain circumstances, but
Speaker 1: I got to have another chance, a better life, love career.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I was just reflecting about my time in Korea.
Speaker 2: We love it a lot over there, such a cool place.
Speaker 2: Would you consider adopting yourself?
Speaker 1: I've already been adopted once. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: need to.
Speaker 2: Be touched again. So I read that without covers adopting yourself.
Speaker 1: The person who submitted that question. Your punctuation was fine,
Speaker 1: It was totally clear what you meant. Yes, we absolutely would.
Speaker 1: I think most of you probably know by now that
Speaker 1: Nick and I both have adoption in our family. So
Speaker 1: obviously my brother and I were adopted. But Nick's mum
Speaker 1: was also adopted, and she is also has an Asian heritage.
Speaker 1: She was born in Singapore and she was also you know,
Speaker 1: she spent a lot of her first sort of home
Speaker 1: was in an orphanage as well, but she was there
Speaker 1: until she was fifteen, I think, and so you know,
Speaker 1: it's not foreign to either of us, not that like
Speaker 1: I think, if it hasn't you don't have an example
Speaker 1: of a family who's adopted successfully, it would be a
Speaker 1: lot more intimidating or overwhelming or scary or foreign or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But because for us it's so normal,
Speaker 1: it's really normalized, and we really want a family, So
Speaker 1: if we weren't able to have children ourselves, it would
Speaker 1: definitely be on the cards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to adopt. Also, I just feel
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I haven't researched it up. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's really hard. It's very difficult.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the rules are now, but it's
Speaker 1: universally difficult, and there are really good reasons for the bureaucracy,
Speaker 1: like you know, child protection and making sure the welfare
Speaker 1: of the family, you know, what life will they go
Speaker 1: into in the family that they're being adopted into. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I think sometimes it's so strict
Speaker 1: that what could be worse than often where they're coming from,
Speaker 1: which it's really difficult.
Speaker 2: It's so so messy hard balance, isn't it, Because I
Speaker 2: always think about that being like it's so hard, but
Speaker 2: of course that's for the safety of the child. But
Speaker 2: then it means that maybe they lose that chance of
Speaker 2: ever being adopted because the process.
Speaker 1: Is so hard AnyWho, and it's extremely expensive, so some
Speaker 1: people don't have the option, like they can't have their
Speaker 1: own children, but they don't necessarily have the funding to
Speaker 1: be able to do or the access like it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a hard area.
Speaker 2: This is a cute one from another Korean born Australian girl.
Speaker 2: Australian born, however, I've had a white, very white upbringing.
Speaker 2: I hardly any other Asian Australian friends in school, which
Speaker 2: is naturally extended into adult life. This has sometimes left
Speaker 2: me feeling weirdly stuck in the middle. Have you ever
Speaker 2: had similar struggles with identity?
Speaker 1: That's an amazing question, And I actually just did a
Speaker 1: wonderful podcast for the Weekend Briefing with Jamilla Rizvi, who
Speaker 1: has been a guest on CZA and is someone I
Speaker 1: admire so much. We had a fascinating conversation about justice,
Speaker 1: so highly recommend you have a listener that comes out
Speaker 1: in a few weeks. Shorter answer is absolutely, I've had
Speaker 1: lots of identity struggles around being an Asian Australia and
Speaker 1: separate to adoption, like that already is sort of an
Speaker 1: interesting cultural heritage to come from where, and I mean
Speaker 1: you all have had that as well, Like putting the
Speaker 1: adoption side part aside. In any teenagehood, while you're finding yourself,
Speaker 1: you kind of swing between your heritage but also the
Speaker 1: culture you live in, and like honoring and keeping some
Speaker 1: parts of your background but also embracing Australian culture, Like
Speaker 1: it's hard for anyone who's got two or three or
Speaker 1: multiple different backgrounds. Add adoption to it, and the fact
Speaker 1: that we don't actually have parents who are preserving the
Speaker 1: Korean heritage or culture for us, but also our connection
Speaker 1: to it is kind of lost.
Speaker 2: It's even kind of messier.
Speaker 1: So it's definitely been something that's taken me a long
Speaker 1: time to navigate. It helps that our family have been
Speaker 1: so supportive of whichever way we happen to be swinging.
Speaker 1: Like you know, there have been years where I really
Speaker 1: wanted to explore my careanness. And when we were children,
Speaker 1: we went to han ho, which is a like a
Speaker 1: Korean playgroup where you learn Korean nursery rhymes and you
Speaker 1: get to wear your harmbuck and you can learn all
Speaker 1: about your culture. But then if we didn't want to go,
Speaker 1: they didn't force us, and they've taken us back to
Speaker 1: Korea so that we could investigate that culture more if
Speaker 1: we wanted to. And then there have definitely been times
Speaker 1: where I've kind of tried to suppress it because one
Speaker 1: of you know, I think that comment the person who
Speaker 1: asked to mention they in school had a lot of
Speaker 1: non Asian friends just because and I had exactly the
Speaker 1: same all the way up until mcgrob, so up until
Speaker 1: year nine, so I was very much like, let's assimilate,
Speaker 1: let's be really bogan, and let's you know, not like
Speaker 1: kind of suppress the Asian things about me, like anything
Speaker 1: that was really stereotypically Asian. I wouldn't do, I dress
Speaker 1: in a really different way, I wouldn't listen to any
Speaker 1: k pop like, you know, all of those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: And then at mcgrob, suddenly it was so natural to
Speaker 1: have a different culture and be really proud of it.
Speaker 1: So then I was like, oh, like shit, what's been Korean?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: How cool is that?
Speaker 1: It was an amazing place to find yourself and just
Speaker 1: stop having hang ups about trying to be everyone else
Speaker 1: because everyone was weird in their own way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, it's weird though, because as much as
Speaker 2: we're very much the same Asians being brought up in Australia,
Speaker 2: sometimes I find myself saying to you things like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: growing up Asian as if you didn't grow up Asian,
Speaker 2: because you kind of didn't Asian. Yeah, And sometimes i'd
Speaker 2: say things to Sarah. You'd ask me like, how did
Speaker 2: you know what was dinner like growing up? And I'd say, well,
Speaker 2: we'd have one bowl of rice and it'd be food
Speaker 2: in the middle, and then you pick that middle food
Speaker 2: into the rice and that's how you had meals or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. And you didn't really grow up with that.
Speaker 2: It was very much a Western diet. Even I was
Speaker 2: lucky though I grew up with BNOI living with us.
Speaker 2: So it's hard to not maintain a lot of culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is so beautiful. I think that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: I just sometimes get myself. I catch myself being like, oh,
Speaker 2: I talk about growing up Asian as if I didn't
Speaker 2: grow up Asian despite being Asian, But then obviously you didn't.
Speaker 2: And so it's this like it's just strange. It sits funny.
Speaker 1: And do you know how that manifests for me now
Speaker 1: that I did grow up Asian in that I got
Speaker 1: treated as an Asian by others, but internally in my brain,
Speaker 1: I didn't have the same cultural upbringing experience as an
Speaker 1: I would have in an Asian family. So I kind
Speaker 1: of have that experience of maybe racism or discrimination or
Speaker 1: just questions about difference without identifying with the culture that
Speaker 1: it comes from, which is weird. And now I get
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of lovely comments about representing people
Speaker 1: of color on TV or you know, that kind of
Speaker 1: representation piece, and then I feel like an imposter in
Speaker 1: that situation. I don't feel like I can fly the
Speaker 1: flag for Asian Australians because I didn't grow up with
Speaker 1: Asian parents. So I sort of feel like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: really lovely that you think that. And I do think
Speaker 1: we should all look at the media and see ourselves.
Speaker 1: When I was younger, I wanted to see Asian looking people,
Speaker 1: but then I also don't feel like I'm Asian enough
Speaker 1: to kind.
Speaker 2: Of be that. But do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's so I know what you mean, but I don't
Speaker 2: know you should ever feel like an imposter. I think
Speaker 2: there's different types of diversity. One is physical, how you
Speaker 2: look and how you feel. And also, I don't know,
Speaker 2: like you don't necessarily have to be the be all
Speaker 2: end of that particular culture, but it still provides a
Speaker 2: lot of great diversity, yeah, visually even on a TV screen.
Speaker 2: But on the back of what you said before about racism,
Speaker 2: have you actually ever experienced casual racism and if so,
Speaker 2: do you have any that you know you remember quite vividly.
Speaker 1: A lot more during primary school. I think society generally
Speaker 1: has come a long way, and I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: we don't have a lot further to go, but I
Speaker 1: think the conversation around people of color and embracing diversity
Speaker 1: and multiculturalism has come a long way from like tokenism
Speaker 1: to meaningful conversations and big changes institutionally, and that's amazing.
Speaker 1: There's so much more representation in the media, but when
Speaker 1: I was in primary school, there wasn't. And you know,
Speaker 1: in Delly magazine and onun Home and Away and Neighbors
Speaker 1: and all those kinds of things, I wouldn't see anyone
Speaker 1: who looked like me and did have a lot of
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it was kids teasing each other and
Speaker 1: it just happened to be about my eyes being small
Speaker 1: or something, not necessarily because they understood it was a
Speaker 1: race thing. It was more like the same way we'd
Speaker 1: tease someone with ginger hair, Like it was just kids
Speaker 1: being kids. And then sometimes it was curiosity that felt
Speaker 1: like racism, like people being like, what's that food?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1: Like I didn't have the food thing, but I did
Speaker 1: have the like, you know, like the eyes thing was
Speaker 1: such a big thing. I remember people always being like
Speaker 1: can you even see? Or like why your eyes looked
Speaker 1: like that? Or from an adoption perspective, it was like
Speaker 1: why didn't your parents look like you? You know, those
Speaker 1: kinds of questions, And it's hard to say it was
Speaker 1: racism because kids are curious about difference, But towards our
Speaker 1: older years it definitely it was more casual and probably
Speaker 1: more subtle. But I have had more overt examples over time,
Speaker 1: and I think so one of the questions I did
Speaker 1: answer this on Instagram, so you can go and look
Speaker 1: at the highlight, But I think you have to remember,
Speaker 1: as with any kind of difference, it reflects much more
Speaker 1: about the person than it does on you, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it's okay, and it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: they shouldn't change. But sometimes you can't also be an
Speaker 1: activist and try and change everyone for the better because
Speaker 1: you'll have no energy left. So if you can learn
Speaker 1: how to step in and educate where you think it's
Speaker 1: going to make a difference, but also not take it
Speaker 1: as any reflection on your own value. If you can't
Speaker 1: make a difference or you can't speak up because of
Speaker 1: complicated reasons. If it's in the workplace, there are definitely
Speaker 1: official courses of action you can take, and you definitely should.
Speaker 1: And there was a question about more casual racism, and
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of colloquial ways that
Speaker 1: things have been become ingrained that are inherently ras that
Speaker 1: we still kind of laugh at and don't really realize
Speaker 1: they're not okay. And I think it's everyone needs to
Speaker 1: have a safe space to learn and to be pulled
Speaker 1: up on it and then change their behavior. And everyone
Speaker 1: also needs to feel comfortable to be able to pull
Speaker 1: people up and know that they're going to be able,
Speaker 1: you know, not take it badly. I think just the
Speaker 1: more you are compassionate and patient but also use your
Speaker 1: platforms to educate in a in a way that's going
Speaker 1: to help people change is yeah, because it's again another
Speaker 1: hard one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The second part to that question was how do
Speaker 2: you handle it when you see it from friends? But
Speaker 2: you kind of did just answer it. I'm the worst
Speaker 2: of handling it because I wouldn't say I'm an instigator
Speaker 2: of cateugracism because I would never be. But sometimes I
Speaker 2: make jokes that I am so used to, perhaps because
Speaker 2: I sometimes say it before someone else says it, so
Speaker 2: it just like you preempt it.
Speaker 1: So it kind of makes it fine, breaks the barrier
Speaker 1: being like diffuses it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if someone asks me to do a math equation,
Speaker 2: I'll be like, just because I'm Asian or you know,
Speaker 2: just kind of like I don't know add levity. But
Speaker 2: also and then at the same time that almost eggs
Speaker 2: people to feel like they can. That's also interesting. So
Speaker 2: it's a bit tricky because I'm just alaric in general. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's not malicious and I don't mean any malice
Speaker 2: when I say it, but I have I think I've
Speaker 2: slowly come to realize that that actually doesn't help the situation.
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it's kind of tricky making those kinds
Speaker 2: of jokes.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point because anyone who' hung out
Speaker 1: with me before will no. I do that too. Definitely
Speaker 1: do it, and I do it in a way that
Speaker 1: is kind of self defense, like you're almost pre emptying
Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't know, yeah, diffusing the situation by
Speaker 1: just saying it first. But there are some situations where
Speaker 1: you kind of need to acknowledge with levity.
Speaker 2: I e.
Speaker 1: When I'm getting my makeup done by a makeup artist
Speaker 1: who hasn't done Asian eyes before, I need to sort
Speaker 1: of say the approach has to be different because my
Speaker 1: eyes aren't hooded, and I don't want to make them
Speaker 1: feel like, oh stable, So I'll kind of laugh about it,
Speaker 1: like be like, oh my, but that's hard because I'm
Speaker 1: not making a racist joke, but I do need to
Speaker 1: explain there are physical differences, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: make them feel awards.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be serious. It's really difficult. So
Speaker 2: I have learned in a way where it's I'm like,
Speaker 2: there's a difference between racism and levity and joking, and
Speaker 2: like I'm just such a jokester, and I would say
Speaker 2: that if I would said to you, oh, just because
Speaker 2: I'm Asian, as a joke, You're welcome to laugh at
Speaker 2: it because it's a joke. It's different when it comes
Speaker 2: with a different type of motive and you can feel
Speaker 2: the malice behind its act. You said that to me,
Speaker 2: even as a joke, to me personally, i'd probably laugh
Speaker 2: because that's who I am. They know, and they do
Speaker 2: it directing it to me in that way that I
Speaker 2: would have directed it to them. It's really for me,
Speaker 2: it's okay. But sometimes when it becomes quite confronting or
Speaker 2: actually mean, that's when it's not that nice. Even you're
Speaker 2: talking about curiosity, being like what's in your food? That's
Speaker 2: the difference between saying, hey, what's that that you're eating?
Speaker 2: And the big difference between that and saying ill, what's that? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Or like ill that looks like pooh?
Speaker 2: Like I've had that before when I when I was
Speaker 2: in high school, I brought pork floss and I had
Speaker 2: people being like, ill, that looks like cow poo poo,
Speaker 2: that looks like fluffy. Yeah. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: kind of know it was racism, but that stuff, but
Speaker 2: it can't It feels a little bit harsh than if
Speaker 2: someone to say, hey, what's that like, I've never had
Speaker 2: that before.
Speaker 1: I think intension is very important, and there does have
Speaker 1: to be a safe space for curiosity because otherwise everyone
Speaker 1: will be too scared to say anything, which then doesn't
Speaker 1: help break down and like barriers, you know, it makes
Speaker 1: the barriers higher. So it's hard, very hard.
Speaker 2: That cops the adoption topic. In the next topic is
Speaker 2: fertility EO, something that you and I have been speaking
Speaker 2: about a lot more over the last period.
Speaker 1: So disclaimer here, neither of us are fertility experience, and
Speaker 1: I have like we're very very early on preliminary steps,
Speaker 1: so anything including you have been part of the triplet
Speaker 1: that is going to be the parents of this child.
Speaker 1: You know, we're like so preliminary, and there are people
Speaker 1: who have been a long way through the process who
Speaker 1: have much more to say. And so I am doing
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, I'll be doing a separate adoption episode.
Speaker 1: I'll also do a separate fertility episode with a guest
Speaker 1: who I already have in mind, who is much further
Speaker 1: along the process, and we'll be able to shed light
Speaker 1: on the stages of IVF. And you know, I'm very
Speaker 1: very early, but there are lots of questions.
Speaker 2: So, but also this is questions about your experience. You
Speaker 2: don't have to be an expert in.
Speaker 1: But also I think it's important to cover like more
Speaker 1: of those early stage preparation things because you just get
Speaker 1: the biggest surprise for me, and response, like, the response
Speaker 1: to that surprise has been very like echoing this out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm saying people are echoing that surprise
Speaker 1: is that you can get to your thirties or whatever
Speaker 1: age you start thinking about it and not know anything.
Speaker 1: There are four stages two our cycle. What like that
Speaker 1: is brand new information?
Speaker 2: Wow? Did you know that?
Speaker 1: Of course we learn, yeah, but people who don't work
Speaker 1: in the medical arena genuinely have never heard. Like someone
Speaker 1: replied to my story being like, what do you mean
Speaker 1: we have four stages?
Speaker 2: I'm like, see, no, it's fair. And also I know
Speaker 2: they're full stages, but I couldn't tell you anymore what
Speaker 2: any of them mean.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do that quickly, because I think that's important.
Speaker 1: So there are four stages, the lute phase, the killer
Speaker 1: phase for the killer.
Speaker 2: Let me let's find it.
Speaker 1: Four phases is population of phase? Good question TBC, Yes,
Speaker 1: ovulation lutel the actual menstruation and follicular and that is like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I'd heard the word follicular until like
Speaker 1: I did the Tour Organic podcast and talk to a
Speaker 1: specialist about my cycle, and I was like, do you
Speaker 1: understand I am learning this for the first time? Like
Speaker 1: now crazy?
Speaker 2: And do you people forget about the understanding how estrogen
Speaker 2: and progesterone work? Yeah, Like, don't even know.
Speaker 1: Crazy. So, menstation is when the lining of your uterus sheds.
Speaker 1: Then your first phase after that is follicular. Oh, hold on,
Speaker 1: filicid phase starts on the first day of mensuration, sorry,
Speaker 1: and ends with ovulation. So that is when the hormone,
Speaker 1: the follicle stimulating hormone, stimulates the ovary to produce around
Speaker 1: five to twenty follicles which be on the surface. Then
Speaker 1: ovulation is the phase when your mature eggs are being released.
Speaker 1: Is the time when you are supposed to be trying
Speaker 1: to get pregnant, and you need to identify when you're
Speaker 1: ovulating in the window that you're ovulating in, which there
Speaker 1: are lots of We'll talk about this in the questions
Speaker 1: and there's a lot more articulate explanations of this, but
Speaker 1: ovulation is the phase. I used to think you could
Speaker 1: get pregnant anytime, but no, you have to be ovulating,
Speaker 1: so that's a whole thing. And then the lutel phase
Speaker 1: is after that. And yeah, there's a lot of scientific
Speaker 1: things about the corpus lutan and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Please go and research it because it's crazy, Like there's
Speaker 1: just so much information about it. I might share the
Speaker 1: link to the Tom Organon episode because it was so fascinating.
Speaker 1: There's stages of your cycle. You have different energy, Like
Speaker 1: why do you go and schedule the most energy intensive
Speaker 1: things at the wrong time in your cycle? Like how
Speaker 1: have we not been learning how to harness our energy
Speaker 1: the most efficiently? Anyway, So first thing you need to
Speaker 1: know is is the stages of your cycle?
Speaker 2: All right, good wrap up.
Speaker 1: That was the least articulate thing I've ever said, But
Speaker 1: we go and google it. It's blows your mind.
Speaker 2: Okay, So first question, biggest question members what's the plan?
Speaker 2: And also I love that you left this comment in
Speaker 2: loving your care free lifestyle.
Speaker 1: I think I've left that in two dalg about that
Speaker 1: we have been pretty carefree.
Speaker 2: We got married three years ago and yeah.
Speaker 1: Nearly three I don't believe it, and we weren't in
Speaker 1: a rush like you guys have obviously anyone who's followed
Speaker 1: for a while. Now, we're pretty busy, like we have
Speaker 1: lots of things to do, and we've got lots of
Speaker 1: business there and we've recently sold the businesses which we'll
Speaker 1: also get to so there's been a lot on. Also,
Speaker 1: my father and Lawa's been unwell, so there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of travel, a lot of uncertainty. And then COVID,
Speaker 1: like it just pretty much as soon as we got married.
Speaker 1: It hit so when we were otherwise probably going to
Speaker 1: start immediately, but then you know, the rules about being
Speaker 1: in hospital and delivery and all those things just were
Speaker 1: so up in that we thought, we're just not in
Speaker 1: a rush, let's survive COVID and see what happens. And
Speaker 1: then now that things have been going back to normal
Speaker 1: a little bit, it's only really been this year, and
Speaker 1: I would say the last few months that we started
Speaker 1: to think suddenly, I went into COVID as a thirty
Speaker 1: year old and I've come out like thirty three, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, it felt like a minute,
Speaker 1: but you know, mentally I'm no older. But the body
Speaker 1: clock ticking is a reality for women. It's quite confronting
Speaker 1: and really overwhelming. So this was the year that I
Speaker 1: thought I need to at least look at how to prepare.
Speaker 1: You could just start going for it, hammer and Tong,
Speaker 1: but we also don't have any medical information. The other
Speaker 1: two people in our relationship, we're in a quadruple. I
Speaker 1: didn't tell you you're not one of them, just saying,
Speaker 1: but I thought, you know, you could just start going
Speaker 1: at it. But because we have no medical information on
Speaker 1: my side or Nick's mom's side, there are actually things
Speaker 1: you can do. So I went to the GP.
Speaker 2: So sorry.
Speaker 1: Answer to that question is the plan is We're not
Speaker 1: not trying. We are not actively. We haven't started. Someone
Speaker 1: actually asked a question the other day are you t TC?
Speaker 2: And I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
Speaker 2: Trying to conceive? It's like a thing. Okay, surely that's
Speaker 2: not a common it's a thing. Off topic quickly, there
Speaker 2: was a quiz in the Ages. The question in the
Speaker 2: quiz in the Age the other day, a question of
Speaker 2: something was along the lines of in social media and texting,
Speaker 2: what does ti L stand for?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: No idea, no ideas? And I know what is spelt?
Speaker 2: How is pizza spelt? Sourdo? Anyway? What is t I
Speaker 2: L no idea? Today I learned, Oh my god, that
Speaker 2: is not a thing. I've never seen that. Have you
Speaker 2: seen that?
Speaker 1: I c M I I see why? Am I like
Speaker 1: I only learned that the other day?
Speaker 2: No, I feel like I see that a lot that
Speaker 2: I have not seen. TiO have you seen? I m
Speaker 2: a h oh in my humble.
Speaker 1: Opa A good one? A ng L Nick started using
Speaker 1: that lie. Yeah, it's like a whole new world. Any
Speaker 1: TTC is trying to conceive we are not TTC, like
Speaker 1: I would not say that we're in that phase. So
Speaker 1: the okay, so we've got I've gone to the GP
Speaker 1: and like said, what are the things I need to do?
Speaker 1: The GP has said, which I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people will have heard, you just need to start trying.
Speaker 1: There are no things you can do like b TTC,
Speaker 1: and then if six months later nothing happens, then you
Speaker 1: go and do all the tests. My overachieve your self
Speaker 1: was like, no, no, no, I'm not just gonna like
Speaker 1: try will and nearly for six months. I want the information.
Speaker 1: We want information gathering. So we're not TTC.
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
Speaker 1: Christ, you are excluded as godmother in the context of TTC.
Speaker 1: Sorry anyway, So I ended up convincing her she knows
Speaker 1: me well, she understands my brain. I ended up convincing
Speaker 1: her that we want to do some information gathering first.
Speaker 1: So first thing was come off the pill. It's been
Speaker 1: quite a few months. We are all so different in
Speaker 1: how long it takes to get a regular cycle back,
Speaker 1: but that is a very important part of preparing your body.
Speaker 1: I'm probably at the stage where I have a cycle,
Speaker 1: which is amazing and exciting. The biggest change I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people have quite a hard time. I
Speaker 1: haven't had much trouble with the change. It did take
Speaker 1: a bit to get a cycle, but my skin has
Speaker 1: been a little bit upset by it. I don't normally
Speaker 1: get big hormonal pimples. Topbhood wouldn't have been a word
Speaker 1: last year it is now. So that was one big thing,
Speaker 1: and I think is really different for everyone, but for
Speaker 1: me it hasn't been that hard. The first thing that
Speaker 1: she recommended that we do is an AMH blood test.
Speaker 1: Now that is just like you know, is a regular
Speaker 1: blood test, but it measures so it's called an anti
Speaker 1: malarian hormone test. As a woman, as most of you know,
Speaker 1: we run out of eggs as we get older, so
Speaker 1: the egg count goes lower and that obviously impacts your fertility.
Speaker 1: The number of those small follicles decline in number, and
Speaker 1: as a result, the serum anti malarian hormone falls. So
Speaker 1: you're testing for the level of hormone, which will tell
Speaker 1: you how many eggs you have in your what's called
Speaker 1: ovarian reserve. That's the term used to describe the number
Speaker 1: of good quality eggs left in your ovaries. And it's
Speaker 1: important to know if you have a diminished reserve because
Speaker 1: then you will know that you have diminished fertility and
Speaker 1: be able to kind of manage those risks. So in
Speaker 1: terms of like getting a full picture, that is a
Speaker 1: really useful place to start.
Speaker 2: That's not very invasive and malarian not malaria. Yeah, m
Speaker 2: m U L L E R I A M.
Speaker 1: I heard hilarian as in malaria, the disease, And imagine
Speaker 1: all these people want to get antimolarians. So the recommendation
Speaker 1: is that women under the age of thirty eight who
Speaker 1: are considering del laying pregnancy, women with the family history
Speaker 1: of a varian failure or to immune disease, chemotherapy or
Speaker 1: previous surgery are kind of the recommended people. I just
Speaker 1: thought I was getting to the stage in my almost
Speaker 1: mid thirties that I should do it. Medicaid doesn't cover
Speaker 1: this test, so the cost I think is like about
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars. And yeah, the levels fluctuate very little
Speaker 1: during a cycle, so you can do it anytime anyway.
Speaker 1: Go and see your GP and then they can get
Speaker 1: that test organized for you. Something else other people have
Speaker 1: mentioned to me which I haven't done, is a thing
Speaker 1: called eugene testing, like the name eugene, and I think
Speaker 1: this is a genetic test that does it tests your
Speaker 1: genes to support pregnancy, heart and cancer health. I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about this because I haven't done that one,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to say anything about it because
Speaker 1: I'm not qualified. But yeah, that's been a very common
Speaker 1: recommendation to get your genetic background on fertility eugene e U,
Speaker 1: G E N. When you get your AMH blood test
Speaker 1: results back, you'll then go through the results and you'll
Speaker 1: either say you've got a high level or a low
Speaker 1: level or a moderate level, and then based on that
Speaker 1: you'll know if you've got good fertility, low fertility, middle
Speaker 1: and then you can work out a plan. I had
Speaker 1: a lot of eggs, which is great, but it could
Speaker 1: also mean that you have polycystic overies, which a lot
Speaker 1: of people. We've spoken about pecos a lot. It's very underrecognized.
Speaker 1: It it results in a regular period, the regular ovulation.
Speaker 1: It can manifest very differently for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And then you know, for some people it doesn't do
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect the fertility, or for some people it does.
Speaker 1: So I have a high level of eggs, which could
Speaker 1: have meant policystic overies. So I went to get a
Speaker 1: pelvic ultrasound, which is a bit more invasive.
Speaker 2: It is internal.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what to say to the doctor
Speaker 1: while she was like playing with my junk TikTok about
Speaker 1: It was really fun. Don't have the results back yet,
Speaker 1: but that was the next thing that I've done. I
Speaker 1: haven't done anything else, so, like I said, the most preliminary.
Speaker 1: But those are a couple of starting points if you
Speaker 1: want to start researching, and if you also want to
Speaker 1: figure out start tracking your cycle so you can work
Speaker 1: out when you're ovulating. There are some awesome apps. There
Speaker 1: are some amazing podcasts that you can listen to as well.
Speaker 1: Our good friend Laws is pretty much an expert, so
Speaker 1: you could text.
Speaker 2: Between anything.
Speaker 1: There are also ovulation sticks you can pee on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but beyond that, I can't really speak much further than that.
Speaker 1: We're just very early stages.
Speaker 2: I when you guys were in Europe, not your Egypt.
Speaker 2: I'm messaging you every second day being like, so you pregnant,
Speaker 2: So you're.
Speaker 1: Pregnant, babies, babies make the more.
Speaker 2: For my benefit.
Speaker 1: It's like, we're not TC, We're not TTC.
Speaker 2: I only did that because I knew you were doing
Speaker 2: the whole process. I would have said that and pushed
Speaker 2: that upon you if you weren't at that stage important
Speaker 2: note to make. I'm gonna beh but.
Speaker 1: We're like, I mean, I'll document the process. I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to say anything because the pressure then as on
Speaker 1: everyone being like wh when. But then I also was like,
Speaker 1: there's no harm in like information gathering, and I think
Speaker 1: maybe everyone might be curious in doing that.
Speaker 2: So this one is more an advice question. How to
Speaker 2: be happy for friends' pregnancy announcements when you're in the
Speaker 2: depth of infertility struggles.
Speaker 1: That is an extremely common situation, and often people are
Speaker 1: suffering in silence because if you are on that kind
Speaker 1: of journey, you often don't want to share what's going
Speaker 1: on because it's devastating, it's vulnerable, and I can't imagine
Speaker 1: how difficult that would be because they are sort of
Speaker 1: celebrating everything that you are trying to have, and I
Speaker 1: don't think many things can make that sort of pain
Speaker 1: go away. And it's the same as any kind of comparison. Really,
Speaker 1: it's so difficult sometimes when someone's getting something that is
Speaker 1: exactly what you're trying so hard to get. But I
Speaker 1: think my only advice is to not deprive yourself of
Speaker 1: the feelings. You're allowed to feel bad. You're allowed to
Speaker 1: feel resentful. You obviously don't have to express that to them,
Speaker 1: but you're allowed to have those feelings.
Speaker 2: So sit in them.
Speaker 1: That's part of the process of getting through them. And
Speaker 1: speak to your partner and speak to people who are
Speaker 1: going to understand, but do the things that allow you
Speaker 1: to then celebrate with them when you do see them,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe don't go to them first. Maybe monitor
Speaker 1: the way that you access those kind of announcements, and
Speaker 1: if you need to see a psychologist, maybe see a therapist.
Speaker 1: That might also be really helpful for you to have
Speaker 1: an outlet. But I think allow yourself the feelings. Know
Speaker 1: that that's very normal, but also that everyone's on their
Speaker 1: own journey. And you know, if you deeply love someone,
Speaker 1: you are also going to be happy with them. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you have to be happy with them
Speaker 1: without also feeling sad for yourself. You can have lots
Speaker 1: of emotions at once. It's just learning when and how
Speaker 1: to express happiness for them. Not in the right place,
Speaker 1: then that's not the day you go visit them.
Speaker 2: You know it's good one.
Speaker 1: I can't speak from experience yet, but that's my advice
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 2: And then how do you work on comparison? This person
Speaker 2: he's thirty three, not married or have children, so feel
Speaker 2: a bit of self.
Speaker 1: Doubt, same thing I think, like anything, you know, I
Speaker 1: talk a lot in this EASA book about blinkers. Sometimes
Speaker 1: comparison is really triggering and you can't get through it,
Speaker 1: and you just need to put on metaphorical blinkers or
Speaker 1: physical blinkers to stop the things that are triggering you.
Speaker 1: Like racehorses have blinkers because they run their own race.
Speaker 1: They don't they'll get so distracted if they see what
Speaker 1: everyone else is doing in the field, but they just
Speaker 1: put the blinkers on, and you know, for example, in
Speaker 1: our wedding, I could look at other weding dresses because
Speaker 1: I was just going to get lumped in a whole
Speaker 1: spiral of comparison that will then take away the joy
Speaker 1: from what I'm doing. So I think you need to
Speaker 1: be really disciplined about knowing what triggers those feelings and
Speaker 1: how to kind of push them away really quickly so
Speaker 1: you're not indulging that self doubt. Learn to speak about
Speaker 1: it with people who will not reinforce the doubt but
Speaker 1: help you back kind of in your own lane to
Speaker 1: celebrate the things that you do have. And overall, my
Speaker 1: biggest reminder is, like no one else in your life
Speaker 1: has to deal with the consequences of your choices about
Speaker 1: how you live it. Like you're the only one that's
Speaker 1: lumped with the consequences. You have to live with your choices.
Speaker 1: I mean obviously impacts other people, but you have to
Speaker 1: be happy with the life that you want. So making
Speaker 1: decisions just because someone else is doing them to the
Speaker 1: detriment of what's right for you, it's never.
Speaker 2: Going to make you happy.
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no point in comparing yourself and changing everything
Speaker 1: about your decisions to map someone else, because that's not
Speaker 1: your life. So the more you can be really in
Speaker 1: tune with and honor what makes you feel good, what
Speaker 1: makes you happy, what aligns with your values, it's just
Speaker 1: so important that really what anyone's, what anyone else is
Speaker 1: doing and thinking, is actually kind of irrelevant. Yep.
Speaker 2: There was this really good quote and I always forget it,
Speaker 2: but I love it. It's got to do with you're
Speaker 2: never too far in front and you're never too far
Speaker 2: behind you where you need to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was our code of the gay oh this week.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, remember we were like, you
Speaker 1: can never fall behind in your own life. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: because like you're exactly where're supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something like that, because always so true people,
Speaker 2: We always compare ourselves to where we're meant to be,
Speaker 2: because because society is that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because someone else is, because.
Speaker 2: Someone else is. But people aren't judging where you are.
Speaker 2: You just feel that pressure yourself, which is hard to
Speaker 2: obviously work through.
Speaker 1: But and also some people might not want you or
Speaker 1: not want to get married.
Speaker 2: When she was forty two, I still loved life like
Speaker 2: it's And.
Speaker 1: If you if you don't want children either, I think
Speaker 1: like the worst thing that you could go and do
Speaker 1: is then have one, just because you think everyone else
Speaker 1: like that's the natural timeline. There is no natural timeline.
Speaker 2: You can't refund them. You just gotta keep on going.
Speaker 1: Such a weird comment, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you
Speaker 1: need to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to make decisions that are different to
Speaker 1: other people's. But you know, we're all different. There's a reason,
Speaker 1: this is the point of this podcast, the whole idea
Speaker 1: that like one person's joy is another person's hell, and
Speaker 1: that's why the world works because we're also different.
Speaker 2: So stick to the things that you know are joyful
Speaker 2: for you. And that was the last question of the
Speaker 2: fertility section.
Speaker 1: If you have any further questions, and particularly further along
Speaker 1: the line with IVF and that kind of thing, we
Speaker 1: will be doing another episode on that, so please send
Speaker 1: them through.
Speaker 2: Next topic is Matcha. So do I just brought up
Speaker 2: the microphone? Nah? Okay, first question, why did you sell
Speaker 2: match a Maiden? Great question?
Speaker 1: So we had been seven years?
Speaker 3: Seven years, that's.
Speaker 2: More than double the time I was a lawyer, that
Speaker 2: is correl I was involved in it. I thought that
Speaker 2: has been established for so much longer than I started.
Speaker 1: Nah. So basically it was you know, when we started,
Speaker 1: as you all know, it was a very happy accident.
Speaker 1: We didn't think it was going to have legs in it,
Speaker 1: let alone like full time me changing our entire career
Speaker 1: path legs. And the first couple of years was so crazy.
Speaker 1: They were just so chasing our tail, no real time
Speaker 1: to kind of re evaluate and think about it, and
Speaker 1: just madness, but it's so exciting. Then we entered that
Speaker 1: like hard bit where you have to suddenly deal with
Speaker 1: instead of being the only matcher on the market, it
Speaker 1: was a saturated market and all these new challenges started
Speaker 1: to come in where we had to really make conscious,
Speaker 1: proactive decisions rather than reactive. That's probably the time when
Speaker 1: we realized we had to stop winging it. That was
Speaker 1: no longer going to be enough. Very hard, huge learning
Speaker 1: curve went through the Chabini incubator at that stage totally
Speaker 1: revolutionized our business based on their expertise in mass market,
Speaker 1: but it actually showed us that where we logically would
Speaker 1: go with Matcha is not where we're best placed as individuals.
Speaker 1: And this comes back to the comparison thing, the logical
Speaker 1: assumption in businesses that bigger is better. So we were like, obviously,
Speaker 1: the more stockers we keep having, the more volume, the
Speaker 1: higher revenue, Like, that's where we should go. But as
Speaker 1: it got bigger, we started to realize day to day
Speaker 1: it was no longer like I had become corporate again,
Speaker 1: which is what I left. And Nick is creative and
Speaker 1: he was only doing non creative logistical things, which is
Speaker 1: not a bad thing. But if the whole point was
Speaker 1: to follow what we're best at, we're really good at
Speaker 1: startup mode. We're not very good at like exponential growth
Speaker 1: phase from the five to ten year mark. That's a
Speaker 1: whole different ballgame. So we started looking for investors because
Speaker 1: we were like, there are people who aren't good at
Speaker 1: the startup phase, but it's their jam to take businesses
Speaker 1: from five to ten and then they sell to someone
Speaker 1: who goes ten onwards. And in the hunt for an
Speaker 1: investor to partner with to we've always thought of our
Speaker 1: set is like a jigsall puzzle. You know, I was
Speaker 1: talking about yea being a jigsaw puzzle. Solways a skills base.
Speaker 1: We realized there was a big missing piece for like
Speaker 1: the scale up piece, and looked for someone to fill it.
Speaker 1: We found these incredible investors who came on board and
Speaker 1: had everything that we didn't have, and we had everything
Speaker 1: that they wanted. And it was this beautiful partnership for
Speaker 1: about six months, and then they realized, actually, the brand
Speaker 1: is stronger than we thought it would be without you
Speaker 1: being front facing all the time. And in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I'd freed up all this time to build CZA into
Speaker 1: a business level thing and speaking and ambassadorships and realized
Speaker 1: that brought me back closer to people interactions rather than like.
Speaker 2: Through a product.
Speaker 1: It was direct, direct conversations, direct impact direct, you know,
Speaker 1: like the nature of my work was with face to
Speaker 1: face with people. And they offered to buy their remaining
Speaker 1: shares and that was sort of like another big step
Speaker 1: in the staircase that I never knew was coming.
Speaker 2: But I was like, it's time.
Speaker 1: This beautiful thing has outgrown us. We've outgrown it. These
Speaker 1: new guardians are doing a much better job at the
Speaker 1: next phase which we just weren't interested in, and everything else.
Speaker 1: It started to also hold us, Oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: gonna loave so much it became mutually exclusive. I could
Speaker 1: no longer do both without sacrificing on one or the other.
Speaker 1: And that was where that's where the law firm departure happened,
Speaker 1: was when I couldn't do both very well and I
Speaker 1: don't like doing things half fast. So then when the
Speaker 1: offer came up, it made sense.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good. Other thing is that you
Speaker 2: knew it was time like. I think that's an important
Speaker 2: part of it was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: Everyone just got to watch go watch Gruel and Grace.
Speaker 2: It's a reference.
Speaker 1: You need to include this in your references. And he's
Speaker 1: in charge of of doing the pictorial references for jokes.
Speaker 2: Ayay, So next question is quite question. Answer. I left
Speaker 2: How much did you sell?
Speaker 1: I left it because I didn't want anyone to think
Speaker 1: I ignored the one dollar That is too personal but
Speaker 1: also contractually private.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, but thank you for asking. I can tell
Speaker 2: you if you signed to my DMS, i'll tell.
Speaker 1: You it was four dollars fifty fifty from all those
Speaker 1: carrot dollars that I actually mated, plus inflation four.
Speaker 2: Dollars at two. What are you working on now? That
Speaker 2: match and made it. WHOA what are you working on
Speaker 2: now that the match and Maiden and Match of Milk
Speaker 2: Bar ventures have wrapped up?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Interestingly, so I answered this on Instagram in a
Speaker 1: very long essa, so you can go and look at
Speaker 1: that one, but very short answer is we didn't have
Speaker 1: the situation like a lot of people who sell their
Speaker 1: business have where they haven't got anything to jump to
Speaker 1: and they have this gaping hole in their life day
Speaker 1: to day and it's really overwhelming. We both Nick had
Speaker 1: kept his creative agency bushy the whole time and had
Speaker 1: in the meantime started working on what most of you
Speaker 1: will have seen, this incredible botanical beauty startup called Bloom Effects,
Speaker 1: and his role there had become exponentially bigger already, so
Speaker 1: that was holding him back in that and CZA had
Speaker 1: well before become a full time gig along with sort
Speaker 1: of all my other TV and radio and all those
Speaker 1: kinds of things. So we really didn't have a jump.
Speaker 1: We already were running different businesses that are our own.
Speaker 1: The big shift for me was going from a product
Speaker 1: to a service, and from having the buffer of a
Speaker 1: product to speak for itself to.
Speaker 3: It being me.
Speaker 1: So the self doubt, imposter syndrome is a much bigger
Speaker 1: thing when you're the product, but the simplicity of it
Speaker 1: has also been beautiful. So where I'm working on CZA
Speaker 1: and Spoonful, which is kind of just me, and Nick
Speaker 1: is working on Bushy Creative and bloom Effects, and.
Speaker 2: I feel like you, guys lifting listing those both as
Speaker 2: just two entities makes it seem like you don't do
Speaker 2: very much, but sees for you entails all of your
Speaker 2: own podcast producing podcasts for other companies and brands, on
Speaker 2: top of that being Channel seven House of Wellness presenting
Speaker 2: and radio, and then obviously CZA itself on social media,
Speaker 2: and then on top of that travel. You know, you've
Speaker 2: done all some things within Trepid, so all of that
Speaker 2: false under seas not just your book and your podcast
Speaker 2: and your flipbook. And then same with Nick. Bushy is
Speaker 2: an agency for multiple, multiple startups, and people forget that
Speaker 2: Nick is kind of the only man behind that, So
Speaker 2: you're both kind of running both of your things individually
Speaker 2: and solo, which is actually a really big job to have.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, we can emulator.
Speaker 1: So I made zero from the sale.
Speaker 2: And cool so segways perfectly into this tech section, which
Speaker 2: is massive.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like, oh my god, rode fifty five minutes.
Speaker 1: But career, we'll try and go as quick as again.
Speaker 1: Korea as in not cores in South Korea are cute.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go not quick fire. But yeah, sorry, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you don't have to.
Speaker 2: There's things that you don't want to say. Answer, Sarah,
Speaker 2: you're and the queen of academics. I'm a fellow unique
Speaker 2: student wondering if you had any tips on how to
Speaker 2: do well bracket starting early, early, et CETERA.
Speaker 1: Great question, quick recommendation. Sarah rav on Instagram and TikTok
Speaker 1: is an amazing, amazing influencer who's had a big account
Speaker 1: for a really long time. She has pivoted recently, I
Speaker 1: think into study tips and interviews a lot of people
Speaker 1: who got nine nine point nine five in their atar
Speaker 1: and for like practical hacks in terms of actual study styles.
Speaker 1: Her account the awsome go and have a look, and
Speaker 1: there are lots of other educational tips and tricks. My
Speaker 1: biggest tip would be obviously find out the study styles
Speaker 1: that work for you. Some people cram, some people need
Speaker 1: longer to absorb information. It's all experimenting with what works
Speaker 1: best for you. Again, don't compare to what other people
Speaker 1: are doing. We all study and learn differently. The biggest
Speaker 1: tip that really helped me two of them are one,
Speaker 1: pick subjects or make choices based on what you're really
Speaker 1: good at and enjoy, not just forcing because you think
Speaker 1: you should, because often you'll do better in the subject
Speaker 1: that you're interested in, which looks better even if it's
Speaker 1: not directly related to the career you want to go into.
Speaker 1: People know that there are transferable skills and intelligence. They
Speaker 1: know that you're not always going to only do the
Speaker 1: subjects that like. Obviously there are preres if you do
Speaker 1: have a choice in your electives. I chose random subjects
Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with commercial law, but I
Speaker 1: had a better chance of getting into law because I
Speaker 1: did better in them because I was interested in them.
Speaker 1: So that's one and same in uni number two studying,
Speaker 1: I think, and you probably agree with this, Bim, you
Speaker 1: do better like anything if it's not the only thing
Speaker 1: you do. So, oh my god, Bim, if you didn't
Speaker 1: say that, I was going to just add that in right,
Speaker 1: and we are walking examples of that. We did one
Speaker 1: million extracurricular activities that took away from our study time,
Speaker 1: Like our whole time at mcgrob was sport, drama, music, everything, chrals,
Speaker 1: like debating, like everything, and that took so much time
Speaker 1: that on the face of it looks very anti academic.
Speaker 1: But the break for your brain, the diversity of activities
Speaker 1: during your week mean you're always fresh when you come
Speaker 1: back to studying. It makes you balanced, it makes you interesting.
Speaker 1: And the times where I would pull back on those
Speaker 1: and just study study, study, I wouldn't do any better.
Speaker 1: In fact, i'd be more tired and burnt out.
Speaker 2: I agree, and I think I tried almost to make
Speaker 2: a statement out of it in your not forcefully doing
Speaker 2: more than necessary, but I had done it in the background,
Speaker 2: being like, well, let's just do this little case study
Speaker 2: between me and one of the best mates. And we
Speaker 2: have the same similar studying studying styles, we did the
Speaker 2: same subjects. I kept all of my co curricula and
Speaker 2: more and worked and everything. She quit all of hers,
Speaker 2: and prior to that was doing quite a lot. And
Speaker 2: then in terms of our scores it was markedly different
Speaker 2: because of and I attributed it very much to that
Speaker 2: and me not being stressed out by exams and her
Speaker 2: maybe being a bit more stressed. But also I had
Speaker 2: the best year twelve of my whole life, and I
Speaker 2: think everyone was surprised at the end of the year
Speaker 2: with what I ended up with because I just was
Speaker 2: hardly in school same, we were the same.
Speaker 1: All of our teachers for both of us were just
Speaker 1: like what yeah, me BG news, but we enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: U twelve was one of the best years of my
Speaker 1: life as well. Like I had a great time and
Speaker 1: I studied really hard, But I also don't remember that
Speaker 1: year as being only that I have like other memories.
Speaker 2: And practical tips. Are you a.
Speaker 4: Big advocate for lots of practice exams? Yes, get me
Speaker 4: to heaps. I love them, heaps of practice exams. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like just to practice. Okay, firstly handwriting, Like you need
Speaker 4: to get your hand used to writing that quickly. Honestly,
Speaker 4: these days we don't handwrite at all, and like you
Speaker 4: don't want your downfall to be because your hand got
Speaker 4: a cramp. Like yeah, but also so many questions come
Speaker 4: up again in like a slightly different form, getting your
Speaker 4: brain used to the time that, like, just just do them.
Speaker 1: There's so many of them. They're so helpful.
Speaker 2: I did millions. Yeah, I think it was a macgrov
Speaker 2: thing though. It was almost like a battle of who
Speaker 2: could do more practice exactly fifty two methods, exams, practices, whatever,
Speaker 2: and I got a fifty row whatever. There is not
Speaker 2: that you really monitor. This is the first time I've
Speaker 2: ever seen you flexed.
Speaker 1: You know why though?
Speaker 2: I only did you do that? Did you do further?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I did methods? Do you know? No hate to further?
Speaker 2: Mass is maths.
Speaker 1: Mass is hard work, but like I only flex it
Speaker 1: because I failed in your eleven Can you imagine the
Speaker 1: jump in from failing to year eleven because I just
Speaker 1: like was totally non attentive.
Speaker 2: I think you and I love to prove people from.
Speaker 1: It. It was like the math Underdog Math and science.
Speaker 1: Like everyone at McGrath was like, you're a waste of
Speaker 1: space because you're so naughty and you're wagging and like
Speaker 1: being with Melbourne heard bois not a Gill anyway.
Speaker 2: Balance balance, I have an aversion to being average in society.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if this is something you battle with. This
Speaker 2: is a great one for us.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're like speaking of flexing. Our scores were amazing
Speaker 1: and we're balanced, though, Chill no, absolutely. That is a
Speaker 1: really really difficult thing for like highly driven A type
Speaker 1: people to just coast sometimes and not need to be
Speaker 1: the best at everything. And you guys know that playta. I.
Speaker 1: Actually I have to force myself to do activities I
Speaker 1: know i'm bad at so that I don't so that
Speaker 1: I can relax and I don't try and win and
Speaker 1: make a business out of every single thing that I do.
Speaker 1: And it's really difficult, Like your identity gets so wrapped
Speaker 1: up in trying to be the best at everything, and
Speaker 1: it's tiring and it's not joyful. You need to be
Speaker 1: able to do some activities just for the pleasure. And you,
Speaker 1: bim have been very good at that for me because
Speaker 1: you forced me to do activities you know, because I'm
Speaker 1: below I wouldn't know it's because you force me to
Speaker 1: choose things that you know I don't like and I'm
Speaker 1: not good at, but you make me more comfortable with
Speaker 1: not being good at it and still enjoying it.
Speaker 2: I think it's because we're so used to being high achieving.
Speaker 2: That's why we don't do it for the praise.
Speaker 1: It's just hard when you it's an identity thing. It's
Speaker 1: like you can't do anything halfway.
Speaker 2: It's a go get a mentality.
Speaker 1: And if I know, if I try it once and
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like so far away from being good.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, i't do it, but you make me
Speaker 1: still do it, like bouldering and like go exceeding and
Speaker 1: all you like boxing, But I could be good at
Speaker 1: boxing if I tried harder, but like, I will never
Speaker 1: be good at tennis. Like I have good ball eye coordination,
Speaker 1: but for some.
Speaker 3: Reason, oh, oh my god, I feel in.
Speaker 2: Hand eye ball. Will see you next year. On the
Speaker 2: back of that question, there's a question that says, speaking
Speaker 2: of average, what about your contract score at nick?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I want to divorce right now when
Speaker 1: I take back everything I said about fertility. No, so
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing joke. Law school, I got I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just had released my Internet in year
Speaker 1: twelve and then it was out and I was never
Speaker 1: putting it back in the box. I did very well
Speaker 1: academically and got all distinctions and high distinctions except for
Speaker 1: one subject, which was my best subject. And because I
Speaker 1: overthought everything, I did too many readings and I got
Speaker 1: way too distracted, and I got like ten percent through
Speaker 1: the paper and didn't finish it, and so I got
Speaker 1: a credit. And now, guys, guys, listen. The fact that
Speaker 1: she's so sad and traumatized about a credit answers the
Speaker 1: other question. No, but it's because there's only one, like
Speaker 1: I get so upset when I see my transfer a
Speaker 1: see literally, and now, because contracts is the main subject
Speaker 1: that you use in business every time, Nicole, go, can
Speaker 1: you just read this contract?
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't worry about it, Nick. Every time, literally,
Speaker 2: how you go towards getting better not being average? Have Nick?
Speaker 1: He'll literally be like, Okay, so I've got this bloom,
Speaker 1: it's really important this contract. Actually, no, it's really important,
Speaker 1: so you shouldn't read it or get someone else to
Speaker 1: read this contract like whole. No, he's amazing and I
Speaker 1: do read his contracts all the time, and I use
Speaker 1: that more than any other skill.
Speaker 2: Best advice with someone in the early twenties, This one
Speaker 2: I put in career.
Speaker 1: I think it was really meant more broadly. That's a
Speaker 1: really hard one. But honestly, the biggest tip is my
Speaker 1: favorite quote, or one of my favorite quotes. You don't
Speaker 1: have to see the whole staircase to take the first step.
Speaker 1: The whole of my twenties was very consumed by what's
Speaker 1: the next step. I need to have it all figured out.
Speaker 1: When I was at the law firm, everything was about
Speaker 1: the final destination. It was like partnership or the next
Speaker 1: promotion like it was very ladder climby and box tickie.
Speaker 1: And I think if you become too fixated on not
Speaker 1: just career wise, but life wise, like who you should
Speaker 1: be at the end destination, or what you should have
Speaker 1: or what should earn or whatever question it is, or
Speaker 1: you know who your friend should be or who your
Speaker 1: partner should be, then you don't a enjoy the ride
Speaker 1: or b leave the possibility that actually your plan could
Speaker 1: be terrible and the universe could have something way better
Speaker 1: you planned. So my advice in your twenties is like,
Speaker 1: explore all sides of yourself while you're like young and silly.
Speaker 1: Enjoy that, go and exchange, travel, try a new activity,
Speaker 1: be different, be different.
Speaker 3: You have to be different.
Speaker 1: It's like the freest decade of your life.
Speaker 2: Enjoy that.
Speaker 1: Like try new things, take risks, talk to new people always,
Speaker 1: try like to meet new people and learn from them.
Speaker 1: Everyone you meet will know something you don't and they
Speaker 1: can introduce you to a world you never knew existed.
Speaker 1: Don't be too hard on like making a lifelong decision,
Speaker 1: because there is no such thing anymore. The world moves
Speaker 1: too quickly, so actually it takes the pressure off. You
Speaker 1: don't need to make a forever decision. Ye, enjoy your twenties.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: And it's chill because your circle might reduce in size,
Speaker 2: and that's chill and that's normal. Yeah, and we have
Speaker 2: a circle of two. The line.
Speaker 1: Before these gays introducing this concept of linear friendship, it's
Speaker 1: like two people in a gang.
Speaker 2: It's a collab. Guys like a vote on people say.
Speaker 1: And we're not very big on making fun of people,
Speaker 1: but some people call it a collabor It's.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's not okay. Delirium activate. Most of your friends
Speaker 2: seem very motivated with side hustles and big careers. Most
Speaker 2: of my friend linear friendship. Do you purposely seek out
Speaker 2: people like this in order to have like minded friends?
Speaker 2: And what do you look for in friends?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I definitely have made a big conscious effort, particularly
Speaker 1: in the earlier years of leaving law. Whenever you move
Speaker 1: goals or values or direction, it's a really important thing
Speaker 1: to also help shape your friendship group so that it
Speaker 1: supports where you're going rather than where you came from
Speaker 1: or where you once were. And that doesn't mean like
Speaker 1: let go of all your friends, but it does mean
Speaker 1: it's easier to achieve something when the people around you
Speaker 1: believe you can or have done similar things, or understand
Speaker 1: where you're coming from. And I didn't necessarily have that
Speaker 1: in my legal friends, because they thought the same way
Speaker 1: that I'd been trained to. So there are shifts in
Speaker 1: your friendship every time there's a shift in your mentality.
Speaker 2: Having said that, I.
Speaker 1: Think it's also very important to have friends who are
Speaker 1: really different to you as well. So I love that
Speaker 1: I still have friends who are in corporate. I love
Speaker 1: that I have friends who are so the opposite of
Speaker 1: me in every way, because they keep your mind open
Speaker 1: and they teach you other things, and they every friendship
Speaker 1: I have adds something really different to my life. So
Speaker 1: you want like minded friends, but you don't want only
Speaker 1: like minded friends, and you can also accept. And I
Speaker 1: think as you get older, I've learned that there are
Speaker 1: some friendships where you want the whole person in one person,
Speaker 1: but there are maybe parts of that friendship that compromise
Speaker 1: you a little bit or that you're not aligned on.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean always that you have to like
Speaker 1: you know, we always say walk away from toxic things.
Speaker 1: You don't always have to love every part of a
Speaker 1: person to have a great friendship. You can accept the
Speaker 1: really good parts and learn to manage the other parts.
Speaker 1: So I think have a really broad range of friendships
Speaker 1: is my best advice. Definitely have friends that are you know,
Speaker 1: to like that are going to help you achieve the
Speaker 1: goal you're in right now, But but keep other friendships
Speaker 1: as well because you don't want to become too siloed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think is what I mean. I feel like
Speaker 2: I slightly beg to different in your purpose seeking of
Speaker 2: like minded people because I don't feel like you do
Speaker 2: it actively on purpose. You don't go out and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you are an entrepreneur, therefore made to be friends. I
Speaker 2: feel like you naturally gravitate towards the people that better you,
Speaker 2: and then as a result that becomes your friendship group,
Speaker 2: rather than you're going to seek out people like minded,
Speaker 2: which is very different to just being that's true your
Speaker 2: people at that time. Yeah, and that's really naturally well,
Speaker 2: I think that's how it happens for you. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: the question is do you purposely seek out these people?
Speaker 1: And I don't think you know, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: What you mean.
Speaker 2: Don't you go out and be like, I'm going to
Speaker 2: network and find motivated people in therefore and then become
Speaker 2: friends with them or befriend them, which is very different.
Speaker 1: I do think though that some people are sort of like,
Speaker 1: how do those friendships come into your lap? And in
Speaker 1: that case, I think, no, you actually have to go
Speaker 1: to events or like put yourself in a situation where
Speaker 1: you might encounter new friendships kind of thing. Like some
Speaker 1: people don't network much outside their friendship group, but then
Speaker 1: don't get access to new people. And it's I did
Speaker 1: so much networking, like incidental networking of turning up at
Speaker 1: things by myself, which was kind of awkward, but then
Speaker 1: had forced me to talk to new people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun. And on the back of that, talking
Speaker 2: about friendships, what are your chips on navigating friendships in
Speaker 2: your thirties? They say, we only have space for five
Speaker 2: close friends, including family.
Speaker 1: Oh, so that's come from that quote. You're some of
Speaker 1: the five people you spend the most time with, which
Speaker 1: I love, and I think a big part of your
Speaker 1: thirties and probably forties and fifties, And I mean maybe
Speaker 1: at any stage in your life is that you start
Speaker 1: with like max volume, you go now quality And it
Speaker 1: does involve sometimes a real whittling down of your circle
Speaker 1: because life gets busier and the time you have allocated
Speaker 1: for friends is smaller, and your you know, ability to
Speaker 1: be a one friend for people get smaller as well.
Speaker 1: So I think we sometimes lament the changing of and
Speaker 1: maybe dwindling of friendship groups, but I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a bad thing. I think if you have some really
Speaker 1: really yeah good people in your life, you don't need
Speaker 1: a million friends. It's great to have a million people
Speaker 1: in your life, Like I definitely have a wide circle
Speaker 1: of people I get to spend time with, which is amazing.
Speaker 1: But your people people, you don't need to have that
Speaker 1: many of them, and you need to have enough room
Speaker 1: leftover in your emotional bank to be the person, the friend,
Speaker 1: the lover, the sister, the daughter, whatever you want to be.
Speaker 1: And sometimes that does mean like choosing kind of in
Speaker 1: a discerning way.
Speaker 2: And what are your quick tips on navigating the friendships
Speaker 2: in your thirties.
Speaker 1: Communication for anything including romantic relationships. I think that's my
Speaker 1: only tip. Really.
Speaker 2: All the other tips relate to communication.
Speaker 1: The more you get to know each other and the
Speaker 1: more you learn the ways to express enough appreciation but
Speaker 1: also to be able to pull each other up when
Speaker 1: there's like a bit of discord before it gets you know,
Speaker 1: if you can express how you feel in a safe
Speaker 1: way and they can do the same, everything else falls
Speaker 1: into place.
Speaker 2: Not a could must be a safe way? What let
Speaker 2: it's let its marit Nate good too, I don't a
Speaker 2: safe way, it's it was really good.
Speaker 1: And if you can pull them up on their bad jokes,
Speaker 1: like in a constructive lot of way, it's like really important.
Speaker 1: I love you, I see you, I hear you.
Speaker 2: But no play is our communication?
Speaker 1: Yes, very good ref episode. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: number is, but there's a episode. I think it's got
Speaker 1: play in the title, So go back and listen to that.
Speaker 2: Okay. Next one is tips for improving confidence or self worth,
Speaker 2: and second part to that question is growing communication.
Speaker 1: Yes, that is the hardest area. First tip is always
Speaker 1: self doubt is not ever going to go away in
Speaker 1: a good way. You don't want it to disappear. You
Speaker 1: don't want to ever not have that little like you know,
Speaker 1: not that you want to feel self doubtful. I'm probably
Speaker 1: saying this wrong, but I think if I ever didn't
Speaker 1: have a bit of self doubt, I'd worry I wasn't
Speaker 1: invested in doing a good job. It is a sign
Speaker 1: that you're doing something new and exciting and challenging. It's
Speaker 1: a good sign, but there's a limit. And also there
Speaker 1: has to be a way for you to accept it
Speaker 1: as a sign and then not let it dictate your
Speaker 1: decision decisions or change how you feel about yourself. Practice
Speaker 1: definitely practicing better self dialogue breaking that circuit. One of
Speaker 1: the things that makes humans unique is that unlike most
Speaker 1: mammals that just think, we can think about our thoughts.
Speaker 1: We have metacognition. That means you can think about your thoughts,
Speaker 1: so we can stop a bad thought and just change
Speaker 1: it at any time, which is why we're so special.
Speaker 1: So you can acknowledge the self doubt and then learn
Speaker 1: to just push it away if you can't do that yourself,
Speaker 1: and break the circuit yourself. At the beginning, phone a
Speaker 1: friend who's going to help you. And the more it's
Speaker 1: like a neural pathway, the more you get used to
Speaker 1: stopping that in its tracks and realizing you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: this opportunity if you couldn't cope with it. You wouldn't
Speaker 1: be given this, You wouldn't be put in this situation
Speaker 1: if you couldn't deal with it. You were chosen for
Speaker 1: a reason. You are wildly more capable than you think
Speaker 1: you are. If you aren't right now, you can be,
Speaker 1: and you will be, And you need people around you
Speaker 1: who will help you believe that, rather than people who
Speaker 1: will detract from that.
Speaker 2: It's my best advice.
Speaker 1: By your stuff A hype girl, girl per person, hype
Speaker 1: animal also sorry, oh yeah, the hype dog a dog a.
Speaker 3: God.
Speaker 2: And within law two parts of this just about to
Speaker 2: finish up. I'll be at Monash and tips for negotiating
Speaker 2: higher duties in workplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, so within law I think it is the
Speaker 1: most versatile degree ever. You are so well equipped for anything,
Speaker 1: whether it be in corporate, whether it be in the courts,
Speaker 1: whether it be in house or you know, there's just
Speaker 1: so many directions you can go inside the law. You
Speaker 1: don't need to go outside it to still get like
Speaker 1: a to have such a diverse range of careers, best
Speaker 1: advice is if you don't know what you want to do,
Speaker 1: and you don't, you're not going to figure that out
Speaker 1: on time, Like by the time you finish your degree,
Speaker 1: you've got to do something. The biggest thing in law
Speaker 1: is getting qualified, and you aren't. You don't graduate qualified.
Speaker 1: So if you can find a way to get qualified
Speaker 1: and buy yourself some time to figure out what you
Speaker 1: do want to do. Sometimes people think, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I know I don't want to be in law, so
Speaker 1: I'll just work at calls now, or I'll just do
Speaker 1: something else. But if you can get qualification it only
Speaker 1: takes you a year, then no matter what, you can
Speaker 1: go back to it. The time's going to pass anyway,
Speaker 1: so you might as well give yourself the best chance
Speaker 1: of starting. I didn't think I wanted to be in
Speaker 1: law forever, but I didn't know what else I would do,
Speaker 1: so I was like, well, I might as well open
Speaker 1: more doors rather than close them. And the more work
Speaker 1: experience you have, the more exposure you have to other
Speaker 1: jobs in the gray areas that you've never heard about before.
Speaker 1: So just get your foot in the door and speak
Speaker 1: to as many people as you can. Speak to ex lawyers,
Speaker 1: speak to current lawyers, speak to you know, get people
Speaker 1: friends and friends to introduce you to people for coffees.
Speaker 1: You need to like put some time into researching where
Speaker 1: you might want to go and who you want to become.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know that by the time you graduate,
Speaker 1: then start in the best place you can and go
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 2: Advice for outside of law, This is a few questions,
Speaker 2: So how to know whether it's stay in commercial law
Speaker 2: private practice long term. This person's working as a grad
Speaker 2: at a top tier firm and very proud to say
Speaker 2: that they made it this far. Sometimes they enjoy it,
Speaker 2: sometimes they don't, and also don't like the culture which
Speaker 2: looks at how late people stay back.
Speaker 1: Huge congratulations on making it this far. That's an amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing achievement. Again, you are in the best place possible
Speaker 1: to go anywhere in life, and if you choose to
Speaker 1: stay in that corporate context, that is still absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1: Most important thing which is maybe not what people think
Speaker 1: I would start with, you don't have to love your
Speaker 1: job all the time. Really, there's this beautiful privilege we
Speaker 1: have in this generation to have yea all the time
Speaker 1: in our work. But you don't necessarily have to have
Speaker 1: that all the time. As long as you're finding joy
Speaker 1: somewhere in your life. So if you are really stimulated
Speaker 1: and have an amazing opportunity and stability and financial rewards,
Speaker 1: and you know it helps you build the life that
Speaker 1: you want, and you enjoy it enough, you can stay there.
Speaker 1: You everyone has bad days at their job, everyone, and
Speaker 1: that alone is not a reason to think that law
Speaker 1: isn't suited for you. There are still things institutionally that
Speaker 1: need to change about FaceTime and long hours and you
Speaker 1: know balance, Like, definitely there's a long way to go.
Speaker 1: But that might not be a sign that you don't
Speaker 1: like law. That might just be that at the moment,
Speaker 1: working in a law firm involves that thing. So very
Speaker 1: first thing is don't throw away a really great career
Speaker 1: just because it's.
Speaker 2: Not you're not passionate all the time.
Speaker 1: But having said that, you won't know what else you
Speaker 1: like unless you explore so, and you're not going to
Speaker 1: find that if you just sit there in the same
Speaker 1: job wondering. So talk to people, go and have conversations,
Speaker 1: think about think you can do circonments, like put your
Speaker 1: hand up to do a seconment within your job where
Speaker 1: you could go in house at a company and see
Speaker 1: what it looks like to work in a business.
Speaker 2: You can do a.
Speaker 1: Startup on the side, you could volunteer at a startup
Speaker 1: on the side, you could do like you know, there's
Speaker 1: so many ways that you can expand what you are
Speaker 1: exposed to to see if you might like to do
Speaker 1: something else. But I think ours alone probably isn't. That's
Speaker 1: not law specific, and it's not a reflection on whether
Speaker 1: or not you like law. It might just be the
Speaker 1: culture where you are. You could consider a different law
Speaker 1: firm if it's really changing your lifestyle. There are lots
Speaker 1: and lots of options. But the biggest thing I would
Speaker 1: say is I didn't leave until I had something to
Speaker 1: jump to. And the reality of life is you want
Speaker 1: to have plata and you want to have joy, but
Speaker 1: you also have to pay bills and a lot of
Speaker 1: people have dependents and responsibilities. So I think if you
Speaker 1: if you can use the time that you have there
Speaker 1: to still have a way still support yourself and look
Speaker 1: for other things, maybe don't jump and do you have
Speaker 1: something to jump to?
Speaker 2: But depends on your financial situation. The next two questions
Speaker 2: probably could are answered in your book and or slightly
Speaker 2: answered in this podcast. Advice a something someone wanting to
Speaker 2: leave lord enter wellness space, and where do I start
Speaker 2: if you kind of.
Speaker 1: Just touched all oh yeah, same thing, yeah, same thing,
Speaker 1: I think, explore as much as you can. It is
Speaker 1: very rare that people are able to leave their job
Speaker 1: and have enough finances and stability to leave to nothing
Speaker 1: and then build the business. I would just say for
Speaker 1: risk management and also for yourself to like, you know,
Speaker 1: cut your teeth and get used to it is. Once
Speaker 1: you have your idea, do both as long as you can.
Speaker 1: You might as well, like you won't have a full
Speaker 1: time load of work straight away in a startup, so
Speaker 1: give yourself as much chance to do both until it
Speaker 1: becomes mutually.
Speaker 2: Exclusive to that prozer we love.
Speaker 1: And if you don't have your idea yet, also like
Speaker 1: it might not be the first idea that works, so
Speaker 1: you might do a few things on the side and
Speaker 1: side hustles before you have a full time business life
Speaker 1: rewards you on like your fifth sixth, twelfth, thirteenth, twelfth,
Speaker 1: eleventh backwards chance. So you you know, give quite a
Speaker 1: few things a go and see how they go, and
Speaker 1: then build up to like a full time loading and
Speaker 1: then you can make the decision. But again, the best
Speaker 1: thing is talk to as many people who have done
Speaker 1: the same thing as you, and that helps really enlighten
Speaker 1: the pathway and get confidence because you know that other
Speaker 1: people have done it, and you know ask if you
Speaker 1: could sit down for a coffee or read people's books. Like.
Speaker 1: The more you can expose yourself to that career path,
Speaker 1: the less foreign and scary it feels. But also the
Speaker 1: more you're of juices will get flowing and you might
Speaker 1: hit that idea.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I have a decent following, but not sure
Speaker 2: how to get invited to cool events or receive PR packages.
Speaker 2: Do you have any tips?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's an interesting one. I think it's interesting. The
Speaker 1: way PR works is often once you get on a
Speaker 1: mailing list or on someone's radar, you stay on it
Speaker 1: and then like they will represent a lot of different
Speaker 1: clients and a lot of different events. So sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just getting to the first one and you can I
Speaker 1: don't know how it goes down when you like reach
Speaker 1: out directly, but I mean you always could. I think
Speaker 1: the worst answer you can get is a no, And
Speaker 1: if you ask really politely in in a way that's
Speaker 1: very curious about a particular client, or you do your
Speaker 1: research like that, could you know, definitely go well, if
Speaker 1: you just do some research on the right person who
Speaker 1: runs a certain account within a pr firm. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of information on LinkedIn, and I would have done
Speaker 1: the same with the law firm if I was after
Speaker 1: a particular person or opportunity. Also, you could try and
Speaker 1: like if a friend gets invited. The way I started
Speaker 1: to meet a lot of the prfms was going as
Speaker 1: a plus one to people two events and then but
Speaker 1: not just turning up and leaving, turning up, going to
Speaker 1: meet the person who was the representative from the PRFM,
Speaker 1: making a relationship with them, making sure to tag the
Speaker 1: business afterwards, and provide some really good value from the
Speaker 1: event so that you're you're showing why you should be
Speaker 1: invited next time. I think it's it's definitely a matter
Speaker 1: of getting on the radar in a gentle, strategic way
Speaker 1: and an authentic like yeah, yeah, And I also just
Speaker 1: realized I forgot to answer the question. Sorry, this is
Speaker 1: going to be all out of order about negotiating different
Speaker 1: responsibilities in a workplace. One statistic I alwayshare which fascinates
Speaker 1: me so much is that I think it was a
Speaker 1: heil At Packard study, women will apply for a promotion
Speaker 1: when they have one hundred and twenty percent of the criteria.
Speaker 2: Men apply.
Speaker 1: This is mass generalization, but men apply when they have
Speaker 1: sixty percent because they know that they can learn the
Speaker 1: other forty.
Speaker 2: Totally logical.
Speaker 1: Women will lose out every time just on timing because
Speaker 1: they apply too late. So I think we not just women,
Speaker 1: but everyone who is a bit hesitant about negotiating more pay,
Speaker 1: more responsibilities or whatever. You have to be willing to
Speaker 1: have the conversation because even our superiors are humans after all,
Speaker 1: Even if you're the most deserving, if you're not making
Speaker 1: noise or reminding them of that, how can they remember
Speaker 1: They've got enough stuff going on by themselves. Schedule meetings,
Speaker 1: have conversations, ask the question. But the big thing to
Speaker 1: remember is when you're pitching something like that, don't pitch
Speaker 1: why you want it. You have to pitch why it's
Speaker 1: good for them. Remember your audience. And it's the same
Speaker 1: with selling things like who are you speaking? To make
Speaker 1: it an easy decision for them, show them why you
Speaker 1: meet the criteria, Not like I want this because it
Speaker 1: would help me. You want to do this because it
Speaker 1: will help you kind of thing. And it's hard, it's
Speaker 1: so freaking uncomfortable. I am so bad at having conversations
Speaker 1: with superior about anything, which is why I just don't
Speaker 1: have superiors anymore. But learn how to book a meeting
Speaker 1: and broach the subject and push through the discomfort, because
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't ask, you don't get really.
Speaker 2: Oscars of the career section, would you consider studying a
Speaker 2: mentoring program or platform for young women who want to
Speaker 2: start a conversation slash explore creative side hustles on top
Speaker 2: of their usual nine to five jobs. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: so many people asked about this.
Speaker 1: It's so lovely and I get I reckon once a week,
Speaker 1: a full pitch for someone to be mentored, like who
Speaker 1: wants me to mentor them? Which is the most flattering,
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what I would say, but
Speaker 1: I would really love to do that. I just don't
Speaker 1: think that one on one mentoring. I just don't have
Speaker 1: any more time to do it one on one to
Speaker 1: the level that I would like to be able to
Speaker 1: do it. But I would love to be able to
Speaker 1: do it in a group context or some kind of
Speaker 1: setup like that. So there's something I'm working on that's
Speaker 1: really exciting that's coming out soon, which I haven't told
Speaker 1: you about them, but I will what a flan well,
Speaker 1: which I will share soon. But I also would love
Speaker 1: to do something a little bit more structured and a
Speaker 1: little bit more yiaghborhood focused.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how on that that out, but
Speaker 2: I will start thinking studying. I love mentoring, you know,
Speaker 2: but also knowing us.
Speaker 1: Every time I say I'm going to work on those
Speaker 1: really exciting like, then seven months later, I still haven't
Speaker 1: done it, really sorry, guys. We still also have the
Speaker 1: Peanut for cars, the bike. We have so many things
Speaker 1: on the cards. Has just been like a really crazy year.
Speaker 2: So we have two sections left.
Speaker 1: Oh what I thought, we're up to fast Fire? I thought,
Speaker 1: so lifestyle or should we do this in the next episode.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, do you want to yeah,
Speaker 1: toward to the next episode, and you could expand that
Speaker 1: those questions based on whatever other questions you might get. Yeah,
Speaker 1: from now until then, Yeah, Okay, okay, guys, there's one
Speaker 1: one hour and twenty minutes. We're going to take a
Speaker 1: break and we will release the next half with the
Speaker 1: lifestyle questions and the fast Fire questions, which I will
Speaker 1: list now so that you know not to look for
Speaker 1: them in this episode.
Speaker 2: And we'll listen to the next week. Thank you guys
Speaker 2: for joining and listening CC. I need always a bath, okay,
Speaker 2: By
Speaker 3: And at F