1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: On March seventeen, at twenty fifteen, seventeen year old schoolgirl 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Marsa Vuketich left her home in Doncaster, Melbourne at around 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: six pm for her usual evening walk through her local park. 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Earlier that day, the keen cosplayer who was obsessed with 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: the color pink, had attended classes at Canterbury Girls Secondary College. 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: She was hoping to one day become a lawyer. She'd 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: come home, shared a meal with her family, and then 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: spent some time texting her boyfriend Timothy Draper. They were 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: chatting about which dress she should wear to an upcoming formal, 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: but after that conversation, Timothy didn't receive any more messages 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: from her. Now that struck him as a bit odd 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: because she would normally say good night, but then he 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: assumed she was just busy, or maybe she'd fallen asleep. Instead, Masa, 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: wearing her headphones and listening to music, had gone for 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: a walk along the familiar footpath in the nearby Kunung 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Creek Linear Reserve, a quiet suburban park where she felt safe. 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: It was used by a lot of other locals to 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: exercise and walk their dogs, and it was of her 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: everyday routine. But as she continued along the path, she 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: was suddenly confronted by a man. By the next morning, 21 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: before the sun was even up, police were knocking on 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: Timothy's door, and instead of waking up to a text 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: from his girlfriend, he was told the unthinkable, Marsa had 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: never made it home. I'm Claire Murphy and you're listening 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most 26 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: most about them. The court would later hear how Marsa 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,919 Speaker 1: Vukeitch was forced into a secluded area of the Kunann 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: Creek Linear Reserve and stabbed forty nine times. Her screams 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: were heard by neighbors who contacted emergency services, but despite 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,279 Speaker 1: paramedics rushing to the scene along with police, they couldn't 32 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: save her. Mars's body was found at approximately six fifty 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: pm that evening near a footbridge. Police would scour CCTV 34 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: footage in the area, spotting a man in a red 35 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: shirt a mohawk shaved into his hair fleeing the scene 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: carrying a white plastic bag. They would also see him 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: jump on a bus, taking with him in that bag. 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: What police believe is the murder weapon. But Master's murder 39 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: wasn't the end of his violence. In the days it followed, 40 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: the man who would later be identified as thirty one 41 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: year old Sean Price would rob a woman at knife point, 42 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: beat a man in an elevator, rape a woman in 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: a Christian bookstore. Eventually, he would hand himself into police, 44 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: who realized they already knew him. In fact, he'd handed 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: himself into them before, more than ten years earlier, and 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: had a long history of violence and mental health issues, 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: committing crimes and expressing concerning behaviors that should have seen 48 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: him hand a much harsher punishments and be given much 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: more support. Instead, he was free to rape and murder. 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: Journalist and host of the podcast Diagnosing Murder Michael Bachelard 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: covered Master's story extensively in twenty fifteen when she was killed, 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and then again in twenty sixteen Whence was convicted. He 53 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: joins us, now, Michael, welcome to True Crime Conversations. I'd 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: like to start with you on what exactly happened on 55 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: March seventeen. So we know that Marsa was walking in 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: the park and was confronted by a man in the park. 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: We've since learned exactly what happened on that day. Can 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: you talk us through it? 59 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Sean Christian Price had been released from prison 60 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: perhaps six months earlier, and it's fair to say that 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: his rage and kind of symptoms of his illness had 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: been building over that time. And so you know, while 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: you've got Marsha going about her day as a year 64 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: twelve student at school doing VCE, coming home, having dinner, 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: you know, preparing for her evening walk, putting her headphones 66 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: in and going off on her walk, you also have 67 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: this man whose rage has been building for six months, 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: who's that day, March seventeenth, twenty fifteen, has been roaming 69 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: by public transport all over Melbourne, from Sunbury in the 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: west to Doncaster in the east, on and off trains 71 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: and buses, planning on killing someone, probably a woman, but 72 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: not knowing who and not really having a plan except 73 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: that he was full of rage for people he saw 74 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: as affluent, middle class. He described killing and raping women 75 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: as being a natural high, which he preferred to the 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: chemical high of drugs, but he participated, or I guess 77 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: enjoyed both. And so you've got these two kind of 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: people coming together. One young woman seventeen years old, you 79 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: wanting to be a lawyer, a cosplayer, princess to her 80 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: friends going about innocently going about her business, and another 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: man roaming Melbourne to try and find a victim. And 82 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 2: they came together at who known Linear Park at about 83 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: six fifty pm on March the seventeenth Saint Patrick's Day. 84 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen. We've got witnesses in that park saying 85 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: they saw a man hanging around a jogger. A female 86 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: jogger had run past and seen this man, who she 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: noted a fit looking, not bad looking, but fit, kind 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: of edgy looking, thirty one year old Sean Price. And then, 89 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: unfortunately for Marsha, she comes along and she doesn't know 90 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: what's going on. We suspect she had headphones in, probably 91 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 2: listening to music. He says, I saw this woman talking 92 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: to birds. He said, like some you know, some yuppy 93 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: Cinderella type figure. And he resolves to kill her, and 94 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: he jumps out from behind a tree, drags her into 95 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: the bushes and stabs her forty nine times in the neck. 96 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: Now her family start to worry about her after she 97 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: doesn't return from her walk. The way that Marsa's mother 98 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: finds out what's happened is truly heartbreaking. 99 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: So yeah, at that time of year, it was still light, 100 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: it was still they out saving and her mother started 101 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: to get worried when Marsha hadn't come home. She'd been 102 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: calling her on the phone and trying to raise her. 103 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: It was unlike Marsha not to answer, so she herself 104 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: went down. The mother went down to Kunung Lanier Reserve 105 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: where she knew Marsha had been walking, and she always 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: saw all this police activity, and these police officers gathered 107 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: in the area, and she went up to a police 108 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: officer and said, listen, my daughter's missing. I don't know 109 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: where she is. I've been calling her. The police officers 110 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: suggests that she call her phone, So her mother calls 111 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 2: her and in the bushes where the body is lying, 112 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: the phone rings, and that's how they know that Marsha 113 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: is the victim. 114 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: So paramedics and police turned up pretty quickly because neighbors 115 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: had called in that they'd heard screaming. But Price has 116 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: already gotten away. What do we know about his movements 117 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: when he leaves Kunung Linear Park. 118 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: So we know that this wasn't premeditated in the sense 119 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: that he was going to kill Marsha Vuktik. We do 120 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: know it was premeditated in that he had prepared. He 121 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: had a bag in it with a spare T shirt 122 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: and after he's killed her, he was covered in blood. 123 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: He's got a knife in his hands. He walks quickly 124 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 2: away and finds a tap in the backyard. He washes 125 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: the knife, He washes his hands and face with the blood. 126 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: He puts his fresh T shirt on over the top 127 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: of the T shirt that he's been in and he 128 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: gets on a bus and his heads west again and 129 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: gets off at Abbotsford, so he's quickly moved away from 130 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: the scene. He travels around a bit more that night 131 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: and finally ends up back at his unit in a 132 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: suburb called Albion in Melbourne's far West that night and 133 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: goes to bed. 134 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: In the days, though he's not satisfied after killing somebody, 135 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: his violence and rage is still simmering. What does he 136 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 1: do in the days after he's killed mars. 137 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: Well The following day in March eighteen, he goes out 138 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: again and again he starts roaming, and he says later 139 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: that at that time he is planning to kill somebody else, 140 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: but somewhere along the line, a stranger gives him fifty 141 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: dollars and that appeases him to the extent that he 142 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: is capable of resisting those murderous urges on day two, 143 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: so he doesn't kill anyone. But day three, March nineteen, 144 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 2: he's out again. At this point, there's this massive police 145 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: operation to try and find him and find out who 146 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: this guy is that they're sort of tracking his movements 147 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: on the day that he killed Marsha. But he goes 148 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: out again. He's out and about tooling around Melbourne on 149 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: public transport and he ends up in Footscrape and there 150 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: he checks in to his parole officer, and the parole 151 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: officer meets him and then lets him go again, and 152 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: clearly the message has not at that point got through 153 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: that Sean Price is the man who they're all searching for. 154 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: And he goes He goes out. He's in a pedestrian footbridge. 155 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: There's a lift and he gets in the lift and 156 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 2: he punches this man repeatedly in his face and steals 157 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: his wallet. He tries to steal a car, but the 158 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: owner of the car fights him off and he runs off. 159 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: Then he goes into a Christian bookshop, and there in 160 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: the Christian bookshop, he sexually assaults the worker there and 161 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: the most brutal fashion, you know, he lies on her, 162 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: he taunts her, he says, where's your Jesus now, he 163 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: rubs himself against her, and then he runs off, and 164 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 2: that's the sexual assault allegation that he's then tried for later, 165 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: And he says later that he he knows at this 166 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: point that he's going to be in prison for a 167 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: long time and he just wanted to get his rocks off, 168 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: essentially before he spends most of the rest of his 169 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: life in prison. And then he goes back to the 170 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: police station and turns himself in and he says, I'm 171 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: the Donnie killer, the don Caster killer, I'm the Donnie killer, 172 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: and turns himself in and is arrested. 173 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: And about the exact same time that he's handing himself in, 174 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: people do start to recognize who he is though, right 175 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: and I understand that maybe someone who even works for 176 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice rang in and said that I 177 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: think I know who this is because he had a 178 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: history with them. 179 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: Right well, Shawn Price has spent basically his entire adult 180 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: life in prison. He'd been arrested in two thousand and 181 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: four after some assaults sexual assaults, particularly in two thousand 182 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: and two and two thousand and three, again random street assaults. 183 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: He would drive around in his car with his pea 184 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: plates on and ask for directions, stop women, ask for directions, 185 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: then follow them and then assault them. One woman he 186 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: assaulted on the street, pulled her pants down and assaulted 187 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: her on the street. A thirteen year old girl coming 188 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: home from school, he assaulted her. Another woman he followed 189 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: into her home and assaulted her there. So in two 190 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: thousand and four, he was charged with twenty two separate 191 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 2: charges involving I think thirteen different women, and he was 192 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: sent to jail for five years and five months for 193 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: those assaults, ranging from scary kind of threats and assaults 194 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: to digital penetration rape. And he served that sentence in prison. 195 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: But then so when I first came across this story, 196 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: I'm starting to look up these sentences, and it turns 197 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: out like five years and five months, but doesn't work 198 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 2: between two thousand and four and when he's released in 199 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen or twenty fourteen. End of twenty fourteen, and 200 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: in prison, he's made a lot of enemies He's assaulted 201 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 2: a lot of people. He's been sentenced for those assaults. 202 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: So he is rocketed between Thomas Emblin, which was a 203 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: forensic psychiatric prison facility, and prison where is tried and 204 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: sentenced over and again for prison assaults. So this is 205 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: a man who is well known to the detention system 206 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: and well known for his sexual proclivities and for his violence, 207 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 2: his random and explosive violence. In two thousand and six, 208 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: he briefly made the news, though I don't think by name, 209 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 2: because he assaulted the then Health minister, later the Prime Minister, 210 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: Tony Abbott, who was visiting Thomas Emblin. He jumped out 211 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: at Abbot, grabbed him, punched him twice in the face 212 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: while that this senior politician, his minister, was doing a 213 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: tour of the facility. So yeah, he was well known 214 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: to prison authorities. 215 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to true crime Conversations with me Clare Murphy. 216 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: Today I'm speaking with Jenny List Michael Bachelade about the 217 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: tragic case of Massa Vukitch and the man who took 218 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: her life. Coming up, we delve into the shocking crime 219 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: Sean Price had already committed throughout the early two thousands, 220 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: long before he was able to attack Marsa. So what 221 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: do we know about his background up until these assaults 222 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: begin in two thousand and three, two thousand and four, 223 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: And there's this idea that maybe he's done a lot 224 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: of other crimes in other states, but he's just never 225 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: been charged with any of them. 226 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: What we know about Sean Christian prices background, his deep 227 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: background is that he is a descendant of the mutineers 228 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: from the bounty ship. The Christian is a reference to 229 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: Fletcher Christian, one of the chief mutineers who after the mutiny, 230 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: they put the captain will Imply on a little boat 231 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: and sent him off into the ocean and then landed 232 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: on Pitca, went to Tahi, he abducted, enslaved some men 233 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: and women from Tahiti and then sailed off to pitt 234 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: Can Island where they scuttled the boat and burned it 235 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: and set up a new society and became Pitcurners. Now 236 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: we do know that he was abused as a child, 237 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: that there was drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sexual abuse in 238 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: his family background. He spoke of being beaten up by 239 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: his father, of having his father put out cigarettes on 240 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: him as a child, so out of that horrendously abusive background, 241 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: he becomes this violent, unpredictable, somewhat undiagnosable patient and abuse it. 242 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, because when I was looking at 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: the mental health aspect of his situation, it seems doctors 244 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: have tried to diagnose him with a whole bunch of things. 245 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: We're talking schizophrenia, psychosis. Was he a psychopath, Was he 246 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: a narcissist? Did he have borderline personality disorder? It doesn't 247 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: seem anyone's really like narrowed it down to exactly what 248 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: his issues are. 249 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: That's right. This was It became clear to me when 250 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: I was researching this store and speaking to people who'd 251 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: worked with him at the various facilities he'd been at, 252 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: that various diagnoses were made over various periods of time, 253 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: but that none of them seemed to really fit his symptoms. 254 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: He was diagnosed with schizophrenia, for example, but when he 255 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: was put on anti schizophrenia medication, it kind of took 256 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: some of the edge off, but it didn't fix him. 257 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: He was on anti psychotic medication for a long time. 258 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: He was supposed to be on anti psychotic medication when 259 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: he was released. At the time when he ultimately then 260 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: killed Marshall Vuketik, but he was living in the community 261 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: and his supervision was pretty light. It's not clear that 262 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: he was taking his medication. He didn't like taking his 263 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: medication because it took the edge off. So yeah, he 264 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: was a seriously disturbed, essentially undiagnosable patient. But interestingly, he 265 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: wasn't tried as somebody who was incapable of knowing right 266 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: from wrong, and of being somebody who had to be 267 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: tried as not fit or competent to plead. He pleaded, 268 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: he pleaded guilty. His competence wasn't seriously questioned in the case, 269 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: and he was locked up as somebody who was a 270 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: competent person in prison. Now he's essentially in isolation because 271 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: he is such a dangerous, such an unpredictable, and such 272 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: an unfixable character. In Thomas Embling, I know they tried 273 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: to treat him with you know, they gave him books 274 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: to read, with exercise, with meditation. He had a girlfriend 275 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: for a while who was herself a schizophrenic killer, and 276 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: she tried to convert him to Christianity. I tried that 277 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: for a while, but that didn't stick either. So yeah, 278 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: I mean, his issues are incredibly complex and it makes 279 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: him a very very dangerous man. 280 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: What it seems when you read through the that he 281 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: has been up against judges or has been punished for 282 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: things that he's done behind bars, that he keeps getting 283 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: lenient punishments. I mean, in the bigger scale of things, 284 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: obviously wouldn't seem lenient to your eye, but to his circumstances, 285 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: they seem quite lenient. And every time it seems factored 286 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: in that his mental health is an issue, but that 287 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: that's not really treated well enough or monitored well enough. 288 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: Especially when he's released back out into the community. It 289 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: seems every report said he is a serious offender, he's 290 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: at very high risk of repeat offending. And yet it 291 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: seems like his monitoring and supervision, as you mentioned before, 292 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: was not great, and that he was kind of left 293 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: to his own devices. No one's monitoring that he's taking 294 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: his medication. Why was he treated so leniently when he 295 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: was such an obviously violent man. 296 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: That is kind of a remarkable fact of this case, 297 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: and it's the six million dollar question. Really, Well, let's 298 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 2: go back a little bit. In twenty thirteen, he was 299 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 2: released from prison, but he was deemed to be dangerous, 300 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: and he was put in a unit called the Kerala 301 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: Unit of ra at prison in Country Victoria, and the 302 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: Kerrella Unit is where they send people who have finished 303 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: their sentences but are deemed to be still too dangerous 304 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: to be released into the community. 305 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: Is this the place they refer to as the village 306 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: of the damned? 307 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: They refer to Corella as the Village of the Damned, 308 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: And that's because a lot of sexual offenders end up there, 309 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 2: people who are pedophiles and who believe are not reformed 310 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: and are not safe to be put into the community. 311 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: And this to some extent fitted Shorn Price's profile. But 312 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: at Kerrella he became this serial pest. He was violent, 313 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 2: He assaulted people, He assaulted the other prisoners, he assaulted 314 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: the guards. There are two occasions on which he does 315 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: these things and goes back for trial on these things, 316 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: and for one of them he's sentenced to three years 317 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: and eight months in prison, but on appeal that's reduced 318 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: to ten months, and so he serves his ten months. 319 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: He's sent back to Corella. He takes an iron bar 320 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: to the cars of the guards. He threatens the guards, 321 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 2: he smashes up the gym. There he's tried again and 322 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: again given a ten month sentence. After he's finished that sentence, 323 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: the correction system is wondering what to do with him, 324 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: I should say, shortly before he finishes his sentence. In 325 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, he does a spell in Port Philip Prison 326 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 2: and there he's such a difficult, violent character they put 327 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: him in an isolation cell. And over two days in 328 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 2: an isolation cell, he is on the intercom constantly, and 329 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: we know this because these calls are recorded and I 330 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: have those recordings. He is urinating the cell, he's flooding 331 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: the cell. He's making the most horrendous threats to the 332 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: g guards and to people. He says, when I get out, 333 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to come and get you. I'm going to 334 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: kill children. I'm going to slip their throats, so I'm 335 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 2: going to put the knife so far into them that 336 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: you know, it gets into their guts. I'm going to 337 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 2: come and get you. The guard he's talking to the 338 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: guard is giving it back as well. She calls him 339 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: rain man. She says, you know, how are you going 340 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: to be buzzing that into com if all your fingers 341 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: are broken. So there's this incredibly violent environment. He's charged 342 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: with those threats to kill. In fact, two days after 343 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: he's released in twenty fourteen, late twenty fourteen, he's brought 344 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: in and does a police interview over these charges. But 345 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, they let him go. And why have they 346 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: not sent him back to Kerrella where at least he's 347 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: under supervision, because they say they can't handle him because 348 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 2: of these two previous incidents of violence at Kerrella. They 349 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: can't handle him, So what do they do. They put 350 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: him in a unit in a suburban housing block in 351 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 2: West Albion and ask him to come in for psychological 352 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: profiling and bail conditions weekly. That's how this man is treated, 353 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 2: and that's where he was living, and this is the 354 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 2: state he was in when he killed this young seventeen 355 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: year old girl in Doncaster. 356 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: It feels so hard to comprehend that a man who 357 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: is that violent and that unstable, that the prison system, 358 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: the reform system, cannot handle him, that the next logical 359 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: step is to release him into the community where what 360 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: the community is expected to handle him. Has anyone along 361 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: this journey up to that point ever taken responsibility for that, 362 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: Because the result of that is that Massavukitich is dead. 363 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, if he'd served his full three years 364 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: and eight months on that twenty thirteen conviction, he would 365 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: still have been in prison on the day he was 366 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: killing Marsha Vukitik, but that was reduced to ten months. Look, 367 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: the state government, I think, recognizing what a mis handling 368 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: of this man had occurred here, did eat some humble pie. 369 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 2: They agreed that this had been badly handled. They apologized, 370 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: they apologized, The Premier apologized to the family, and they 371 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 2: instituted a review, the Harper Review of dealing with these 372 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: kind of serious sexual and violent offenders. That review made 373 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: thirty five recommendations. The government accepted them all and of 374 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: things like, you know, better orders here, and more supervision 375 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: there and so forth. Stuff that kind of is procedural 376 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 2: and bureaucratic and perhaps works, perhaps doesn't, but you know, 377 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: it doesn't change the fact that for this man, in 378 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: this case, the handling just failed. There was a proposal 379 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: at one point to put him on what's called a 380 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 2: detention order. This was debated up and down the prison system. 381 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: A detention order would be an order which would allow 382 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: them to keep him in prison even though his sentence 383 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: had ended. It's a pretty big thing to do. It's 384 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: kind of like extra judicial detention if you like. 385 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: It's not isolated, though, there's plenty of criminals who remain 386 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: behind bars purely from state governments enacting legislation that stops 387 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: them from being released. 388 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 2: That's right. That tends to be one off legislation for 389 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 2: people who were just a danger to society. So this 390 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: detention order was considered for Shawn Price and rejected for 391 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: reasons I'm not sure of. But again, you know, he 392 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: was supposed to be on a ten year supervision order 393 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: and yet he was allowed to live out in the community. 394 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: This was an egregious failure by the system in Victoria. 395 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: After the break, we examined what Seawan Price revealed in 396 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: his police interviews and how his behavior in the interview 397 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: room exposed who he really was when he's finally he 398 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: hands himself in. But when he's finally sat down and 399 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: police interview him about what had happened to marsa vug 400 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: did what did he say? What did he actually admit to? 401 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: He admitted to doing it, he said, I think the 402 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: phrase is he said he'd seen this girl talking to 403 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: a bird like snow fucking white, and he told her 404 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: that she was all yuppy and shit, and that's why 405 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: he wanted to kill her. He had this incredible chip 406 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: on his shoulder about people who were he perceived to 407 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: be wealthy and successful, and this young woman fit that mold, 408 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: unfortunately for her in his twisted mind, and off he 409 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 2: went and killed her. So he admitted to the murder. Oddly, 410 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: he resisted for a long time admitting to the rape 411 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 2: in the bookshop, whether or not he thought that was 412 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: didn't counters rape, or whether he thought there was some 413 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: kind of defining thing in his mind that he should 414 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: resist that. Then he pleaded guilty to it, and then 415 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: later he came back, you know, years later, he came 416 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 2: back and tried to appeal at representing himself. He tried 417 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: to appeal that added sentence for the sexual assault, and 418 00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: that was thrown out as well. 419 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: Just I mean, we don't know the answer to this, 420 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: as we don't know the answer to many things with 421 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: this case. But do you think that him having spent 422 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: time behind bars as a sexual predator taught him that 423 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: maybe he didn't want to go back in as a 424 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: sexual predator again, that perhaps it's better life in jail 425 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: to be seen as a murderer rather than a sex offender. 426 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: I think for him, as you say, we don't know, 427 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: we don't know what was going on in his mind. 428 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: We do know his words were essentially I knew I 429 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: was going back for a long time, so I wanted 430 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: to bust an up before I went back in. Hence 431 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: the sexual assault on day three of his rampage. I 432 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: think for him he refers to assault as a natural 433 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: high sexual assault. I think he'd never killed anyone before 434 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: and he wanted to see what that was like. I 435 00:25:54,359 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 2: think often with sexual killers and sexual abusers that the murder, 436 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 2: the torture, the pain, the fear is it's more about 437 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: that than about the actual sexual act, if you like. 438 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: He refers to he sees it as being the thrill 439 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 2: he gets. All the high he gets is from the torture, 440 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 2: not actually from the sexual act, if you like. So 441 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 2: for him, perhaps the murder was just an extension of that. 442 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: It's noteworthy. I suppose that it's a woman that he's talking, 443 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: not a man, so I think there's a sexual element 444 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 2: to that as well. 445 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: I mentioned this kind of earlier, but I wanted to 446 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: touch on the fact that so growing up, his parents 447 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: did eventually separate and his mum is living in New 448 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: South Wales and his dad in Victoria, where he eventually 449 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: commits a lot of those crimes. But there is suggestion 450 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: that perhaps he's behind crimes in New South Wales also 451 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: because you would sometimes go and live with his mother, 452 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: and that he'd potentially been connected to some crimes there too. 453 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: Has that ever been fully investigated in the timeframe, especially 454 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of what happened to Marsa. 455 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: Look, as far as I know, there was some speculation 456 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: around that, but from what I can see and from 457 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: what I know, there's been no serious effort by policing 458 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,239 Speaker 2: New South Wales to investigate those alleged crimes in New 459 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: South Wales. 460 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: I think what's really interesting about Sean Price is to 461 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: look at it from an outside perspective. Just knowing what 462 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: he's done and the reasons for him, the ones he's 463 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: given himself for doing what he did, he seems like 464 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: such an unhinged human being who's really suffering with some 465 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: very deep mental health issues. But when you hear police 466 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: interviews with him, he seems very rational and reasonable. When 467 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: he's explaining the things that he's done, he's almost unemotional 468 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: about it to a point, but he does say, like, 469 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: for example, when he's been in court, he has talked 470 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: about the fact that he feels like he shouldn't be 471 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: locked up for life. He knows there's something wrong with 472 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: him mentally, and that he should be able to prove 473 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: that he is a decent member of society, and that 474 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: he should be taking his medication. Like, he seems very 475 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: rational and reasonable when you do see him in this setting, 476 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: but then he can be completely unhinged. 477 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 2: Also. 478 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: I mean, he's tried to fire his legal team and 479 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: claim a whole bunch of stuff. But is that really 480 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: interesting that the fact is that he does seem to 481 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: really quite understand himself in those situations. 482 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: Well, I actually met him. I met Sean Price. I 483 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: was the investigations editor at the Age, and I got 484 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 2: a call from a guy saying, in fact, he dropped 485 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 2: some stuff off at reception for me to look at. 486 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: And he called me and he said, you know, I've 487 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: got some complaints about the way I was handled in 488 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: the prison system. And he was referring to those days 489 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: in isolation. And he got through the FOI Act, the 490 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: freedm Information Act, he got the recordings of his interactions 491 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: with guards in the system during that isolation, and he'd 492 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: edited them to put paint the guards in the worst 493 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: possible life light, and he'd sent them to me, and 494 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: he said he wanted to do a story about how 495 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: mistreatment of people in the prison system was driving them 496 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: towards radical Islam. And this is a period twenty fourteen 497 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: when Isis is running rampage in Iraq and Syria and 498 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 2: there's fears in the Australian community about radicalized Islam. So 499 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,239 Speaker 2: this struck me as potentially a good story. And I 500 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 2: called him and I said, look, I'm going to need 501 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: more than just the edited versions of this. I need 502 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: to hear the whole thing. I need to verify what 503 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: you're saying. And he agreed to hand them over, and 504 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: he agreed to meet me, and he came to the 505 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: Age building and we sat outside and had a coffee, 506 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: and he seemed rational. He was rational, He had a story, 507 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: applausible story to tell, and he was prepared to give 508 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: me the evidence. So he gave me the full six 509 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: hours of the tapes. He also gave me his DVD 510 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 2: of his police interview, which I watched and I noted 511 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 2: in my notebook he seemed edgy. He was quite a 512 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: handsome man, a very fit, lean, kind of muscular, and 513 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: that kind of slightly scary demeanor. He looked on edge. 514 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: I thought perhaps he was on methamphetamines or something like that. 515 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: But he was kind of clearly on edge, but also rational, 516 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 2: soft spoken, you know, and he had a plausible story 517 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: to tell. I parked the story. It was going to 518 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,239 Speaker 2: be complicated. I was working on something else. And it 519 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: wasn't until a week later, or a bit over a 520 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 2: week later, when I saw the photos of this man 521 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 2: in the back of a police car. I thought, shit, 522 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: I know who that is, and I was able to 523 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: identify him. But yeah, long diversion. To answer your question, 524 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: he can come across as rational. The people I've spoken 525 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 2: to who dealt with him in the system say that 526 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: he was always oscillating between this. They described it as 527 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 2: love hate. So he was oscillating between rationality and extreme 528 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 2: and kind of unpredictable violence. He would oscillate between in 529 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: self loathing and loathing of others and anger at others. 530 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: He read a lot. Clearly a clever man. He read 531 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: a lot, but he found it hard to stick to things. 532 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: He exercised a lot, or he didn't and became kind 533 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: of lazy and fat. As they described him, he was 534 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: either on or off and like this kind of split personality. 535 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 2: And so yeah, a rational, calm, self reflective man, self 536 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: loathing man, in some ways also prone to these extreme 537 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: and unpredictable outbursts of violence. It made him incredibly hard 538 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: to diagnose and also hard to predict and hard to control. 539 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: In the aftermath of what Sean Price did, obviously there's 540 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: a family who's now missing a daughter and a sister, 541 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: and in fact, her death really hit her local community very, 542 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,719 Speaker 1: very hard. There were people who are very scared in 543 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: the aftermath of that and were very relieved when Sean 544 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: Price was taken into custody. But more than a thousand 545 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: people turned up to her funeral, and the family spoke 546 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: so eloquently about the pain and the suffering that they 547 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: had endured. What kind of legacy does the death of 548 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: Master Ugiti to leave on that local community. 549 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: Look, it's incalculable the death of a relative, a loved one, 550 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: in such a random way, and because there's no explaining it, 551 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: there's no predicting it, there's no reason for it, there's 552 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: no motive beyond I just wanted to kill someone. It 553 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: seems so random, so pointless, so inexplicable, and that kind 554 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: of death, I know, leads it to mark on families 555 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: and communities. Does it mean that people won't go down 556 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 2: and walk in that beautiful little park in Doncaster? No 557 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: people walk there every evening. Does it mean we have 558 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: to change the way we live our lives? Know, because 559 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: we can't. But you know it has left its mark. 560 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: It's left its mark in Melbourne. It came not that 561 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: long after the murder of Jill Maher again by man 562 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: on parole Adrian Bailey was on parole. Yeah, it leaves 563 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 2: its mark on a society. But people move on and 564 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: you know, we have to live. We live our lives 565 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: because we don't have much choice. We have to. 566 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: I guess the one big legacy though, that legislation you 567 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: spoke about, the recommendations from the report that's known as 568 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: Mars's Law. Now, do police think that that has made 569 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: any difference those recommendations being implemented. 570 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that Mars's Law and 571 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 2: those those recommendations and the existence of Shawn Price has 572 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 2: made the authorities here more alert to the idea that 573 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: certain people shouldn't be in the community. You know, I 574 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 2: probably will describe myself as a civil libertarian, and I 575 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: find that a hard sentence to say. But when you 576 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 2: see the legacy of Sean Price, you see the behavior 577 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 2: of Seawan Price, I think, you know, there are some 578 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: people who just are bad and who need the kind 579 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: of extreme end of custodial law that we now have 580 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 2: in place. And those laws should be applied incredibly, sparingly 581 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 2: and with great reluctance. But sometimes they need to be applied, 582 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 2: and somebody like Sean Price is somebody that they need 583 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: to be applied to. 584 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: Sean Price is currently serving his forty year minimum sentence 585 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: in the high security Alaria unit of bow And Prison 586 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: in Victoria. He's made several attempts to appeal his sentence, 587 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: which have been refused, and he's been adding charges to 588 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: his rap sheet while behind bars, including one for assaulting 589 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: a prison officer. He'll be eligible for BARL twenty fifty 590 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: five when he'll be in his seventies. Will he be 591 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: any more suitable for a lease into the community, then 592 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: time will tell. Thank you to Michael for helping us 593 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: tell this story. You can find a link to Michael's 594 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: podcast Diagnosing Murder in our show notes. If you want 595 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: to see images from this story, head to our Instagram 596 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: page at True Crime Conversations. True Crime Conversations is hosted 597 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: by me Claire Murphy. Our senior producer is Tarlie Blackman. 598 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: The group executive producer is a Laria Brophy and has 599 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: been audio designed by Tina Madeloff. Thanks so much for listening. 600 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another True Crime Conversation. 601 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and 602 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on