1 00:00:11,464 --> 00:00:16,024 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:16,144 --> 00:00:19,624 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and borders that this podcast 3 00:00:19,744 --> 00:00:20,664 Speaker 1: is recorded. 4 00:00:20,304 --> 00:00:27,704 Speaker 2: On from Mamma Mia. Welcome to this spill your daily 5 00:00:27,744 --> 00:00:30,944 Speaker 2: pop culture fix. I remember, and I'm Laura Brodnick. And 6 00:00:31,024 --> 00:00:33,704 Speaker 2: on the show today we are talking about Andrew Garfield 7 00:00:33,704 --> 00:00:37,184 Speaker 2: and his new girlfriend. People aren't happy about it. This 8 00:00:37,224 --> 00:00:39,744 Speaker 2: has led to a bigger conversation about Hollywood men and 9 00:00:39,784 --> 00:00:40,904 Speaker 2: the women they choose to date. 10 00:00:41,064 --> 00:00:43,784 Speaker 1: But first, but first, well, I have a very interesting 11 00:00:43,824 --> 00:00:45,944 Speaker 1: Halle Berry sorry to tell you from a new interview 12 00:00:45,984 --> 00:00:47,464 Speaker 1: that she's done with Entertainment Weekly. 13 00:00:47,704 --> 00:00:48,544 Speaker 3: Love her. 14 00:00:48,624 --> 00:00:50,704 Speaker 1: But before I tell you this story, I need to 15 00:00:50,704 --> 00:00:53,424 Speaker 1: give you some very sad news, and that is the 16 00:00:53,424 --> 00:00:56,304 Speaker 1: fact that Halle Berry is no longer starring in the 17 00:00:56,384 --> 00:00:58,464 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian Ryan Murphy TV show. 18 00:00:58,784 --> 00:01:03,064 Speaker 2: Also, that was the one saving grace it has. I 19 00:01:03,144 --> 00:01:05,864 Speaker 2: know previously listened to the podcast and she was like, 20 00:01:05,904 --> 00:01:06,984 Speaker 2: you know what, I don't need that. 21 00:01:07,104 --> 00:01:09,504 Speaker 1: But we were supportive of her being in it. Shocked 22 00:01:09,664 --> 00:01:11,184 Speaker 1: but she was in it, but supportive. 23 00:01:11,464 --> 00:01:14,464 Speaker 2: So maybe she's filming a secret new X Men movie. 24 00:01:14,544 --> 00:01:16,464 Speaker 1: That would be the dream, But I don't think that's happening. 25 00:01:16,544 --> 00:01:18,904 Speaker 1: So we had previously reported on this very podcast that 26 00:01:19,024 --> 00:01:22,424 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian's big new legal drama comedy that she is 27 00:01:22,464 --> 00:01:25,704 Speaker 1: starring in as the lead actress, that Ryan Murphy is producing, 28 00:01:25,944 --> 00:01:28,384 Speaker 1: that halle Berry had not only joined the cast but 29 00:01:28,504 --> 00:01:31,264 Speaker 1: was also producing along with Glenn Close, and it was 30 00:01:31,304 --> 00:01:33,744 Speaker 1: a star studded thing. And now halle Berry has backed 31 00:01:33,784 --> 00:01:36,464 Speaker 1: out due to scheduling conflicts, which I think is probably 32 00:01:36,464 --> 00:01:38,864 Speaker 1: the case scheduling with what oh well, she hasn't said 33 00:01:38,944 --> 00:01:41,024 Speaker 1: she rarely does TV, so this is such a big deal. 34 00:01:41,424 --> 00:01:43,064 Speaker 1: So that news came out at the same time she 35 00:01:43,104 --> 00:01:45,704 Speaker 1: eve an interview to Entertainment Weekly where she reflected on 36 00:01:45,864 --> 00:01:48,584 Speaker 1: the craziness of Catwoman. Remember she was in Catwoman and 37 00:01:48,624 --> 00:01:51,064 Speaker 1: it was the most critically panned movie of all time 38 00:01:51,544 --> 00:01:54,624 Speaker 1: at the time. She won a Razzie, which has held 39 00:01:54,624 --> 00:01:56,304 Speaker 1: the same week as the Oscars, and it's for the 40 00:01:56,344 --> 00:01:59,224 Speaker 1: worst performers in movies of that year, And traditionally they 41 00:01:59,264 --> 00:02:01,384 Speaker 1: have a huge ceremony and they read out the winners, 42 00:02:01,384 --> 00:02:03,304 Speaker 1: but none of the stars actually go because like, how 43 00:02:03,384 --> 00:02:03,864 Speaker 1: dare you say? 44 00:02:03,864 --> 00:02:04,544 Speaker 3: I was terrible? 45 00:02:04,824 --> 00:02:06,984 Speaker 1: And in two thousand and five, halle Berry went to 46 00:02:06,984 --> 00:02:09,024 Speaker 1: the Razzies. She was the first big name actor to 47 00:02:09,064 --> 00:02:11,424 Speaker 1: ever do so with her oscar that she had just 48 00:02:11,464 --> 00:02:14,184 Speaker 1: won from Monster's Ball in hand, and she gave this 49 00:02:14,304 --> 00:02:17,104 Speaker 1: speech and everyone was like, hah, that was so funny. Now, 50 00:02:17,344 --> 00:02:20,064 Speaker 1: nearly twenty years later, she said that it wasn't like 51 00:02:20,104 --> 00:02:22,064 Speaker 1: this just fun flippant thing that she did, that she 52 00:02:22,144 --> 00:02:24,624 Speaker 1: was actually crazy proud of Catwoman and the amount of 53 00:02:24,664 --> 00:02:26,264 Speaker 1: work that she put into it. Of course, it's a 54 00:02:26,304 --> 00:02:29,744 Speaker 1: brilliant vision, and she said she spent a huge amount 55 00:02:29,744 --> 00:02:32,864 Speaker 1: of time writing and rewriting this speech delivered on the 56 00:02:32,984 --> 00:02:36,024 Speaker 1: Risy stage, and basically she said like, as a woman 57 00:02:36,064 --> 00:02:38,024 Speaker 1: of color, I'm used to the backlash. I'm used to 58 00:02:38,064 --> 00:02:40,464 Speaker 1: having negativity. I'm used to fighting and being a fish 59 00:02:40,504 --> 00:02:43,424 Speaker 1: swimming upstream all by myself. And she was like, I 60 00:02:43,424 --> 00:02:45,224 Speaker 1: didn't want to be casual about it, but I went 61 00:02:45,224 --> 00:02:47,264 Speaker 1: and collected that Risy. I laughed about it. I kept 62 00:02:47,304 --> 00:02:48,904 Speaker 1: moving and I wanted them to know they could never 63 00:02:48,984 --> 00:02:50,344 Speaker 1: take my oscar away from me. 64 00:02:50,664 --> 00:02:51,664 Speaker 3: What a legend. 65 00:02:52,224 --> 00:02:54,864 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with it. I loved Catwoman. I think it's 66 00:02:54,864 --> 00:02:55,664 Speaker 2: a brilliant. 67 00:02:55,304 --> 00:02:56,784 Speaker 1: I've watched it back now and I don't think it's 68 00:02:56,784 --> 00:02:59,704 Speaker 1: as terrible as everyone said it was obviously because it 69 00:02:59,744 --> 00:03:02,384 Speaker 1: was a female lead movie, it was meant to be camping, 70 00:03:02,504 --> 00:03:04,504 Speaker 1: over the top and wild, and also they toned it 71 00:03:04,544 --> 00:03:05,544 Speaker 1: down the original. 72 00:03:05,264 --> 00:03:07,224 Speaker 2: It was ahead of her, ahead of the time. 73 00:03:07,304 --> 00:03:08,024 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 74 00:03:08,544 --> 00:03:09,824 Speaker 1: I think it's become a bit more of a cult 75 00:03:09,824 --> 00:03:12,904 Speaker 1: class that followed her for years. But yes, I'm sad 76 00:03:12,904 --> 00:03:14,944 Speaker 1: that she's dropped out of all's fair, but happy that 77 00:03:14,984 --> 00:03:17,864 Speaker 1: she's now coming forward about her Razzi experience because that 78 00:03:17,904 --> 00:03:19,824 Speaker 1: has been a very infamous story for a long time 79 00:03:19,864 --> 00:03:23,944 Speaker 1: and we now know the truth Nana. So earlier this year, 80 00:03:24,024 --> 00:03:27,504 Speaker 1: Andrew Garfield, star of many movies, but most notably one 81 00:03:27,544 --> 00:03:30,544 Speaker 1: of the many Spider Men currently out and about in Hollywood. 82 00:03:30,624 --> 00:03:34,544 Speaker 1: One of three Spider Man was photographed with his new girlfriend, 83 00:03:34,624 --> 00:03:38,664 Speaker 1: doctor Kate Tamaz, who is a spiritual advisor and doctor. 84 00:03:39,064 --> 00:03:40,904 Speaker 1: There was huge news that came out because there were 85 00:03:40,904 --> 00:03:43,464 Speaker 1: all these pat photos that walking around all looking all 86 00:03:43,504 --> 00:03:46,184 Speaker 1: loved up, holding hands. There were all these articles of 87 00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:48,704 Speaker 1: like who is Andrew Garfield's new girlfriend? And they were 88 00:03:48,744 --> 00:03:52,144 Speaker 1: recently also photographed together at Wimbledon having a very sexy 89 00:03:52,264 --> 00:03:54,864 Speaker 1: romantic time. So everyone's like, okay, yes they're still together, 90 00:03:55,344 --> 00:03:58,464 Speaker 1: so from the outside that looked all beautiful and cute, 91 00:03:58,624 --> 00:04:00,464 Speaker 1: especially because people were like, oh, he must still love 92 00:04:00,504 --> 00:04:02,664 Speaker 1: Emma Stone even though she's married with a kid now 93 00:04:02,704 --> 00:04:04,464 Speaker 1: to someone else, because they were together for so long, 94 00:04:04,544 --> 00:04:07,264 Speaker 1: this idea that he'd found love. But now we found 95 00:04:07,264 --> 00:04:10,104 Speaker 1: out that it hasn't been all rosy behind the scenes 96 00:04:10,104 --> 00:04:12,944 Speaker 1: for hate, and that she's been receiving a huge amount 97 00:04:12,984 --> 00:04:16,184 Speaker 1: of hate for dating Andrew Garfield. There are whole like 98 00:04:16,264 --> 00:04:20,544 Speaker 1: online forums and pages and TikTok accounts dedicated to trolling her, 99 00:04:20,584 --> 00:04:22,664 Speaker 1: and she is very aware of them. And the reason 100 00:04:22,704 --> 00:04:24,664 Speaker 1: people are so upset is they don't think she's hot 101 00:04:24,744 --> 00:04:27,544 Speaker 1: enough to be dating Andrew Garfield, and they deemed her ugly. 102 00:04:27,744 --> 00:04:30,584 Speaker 1: Oh that's so may yes, and she's very aware of it. 103 00:04:30,624 --> 00:04:33,464 Speaker 1: So she gave an interview to The Times where she 104 00:04:33,624 --> 00:04:36,384 Speaker 1: talked about the perhaps like chasing them through the street. 105 00:04:36,464 --> 00:04:38,224 Speaker 1: She said they would take one hundred and fifty photos, 106 00:04:38,264 --> 00:04:40,184 Speaker 1: they would always choose the four where I look the 107 00:04:40,224 --> 00:04:43,184 Speaker 1: worst and always print those. And she thinks it's very 108 00:04:43,184 --> 00:04:46,744 Speaker 1: misogynistic that everything about her career and what she's built 109 00:04:46,824 --> 00:04:48,744 Speaker 1: up like she has her own podcast. She writes she 110 00:04:48,784 --> 00:04:51,264 Speaker 1: has like a huge following for her work, and she's like, 111 00:04:51,304 --> 00:04:54,144 Speaker 1: everything I've walked for has now been like built up 112 00:04:54,184 --> 00:04:56,264 Speaker 1: to dating this man, who she says she's very in 113 00:04:56,304 --> 00:04:59,024 Speaker 1: love and happy with. But it's a very mislogynist way 114 00:04:59,064 --> 00:05:01,984 Speaker 1: to look at it. And here's the kicker along with 115 00:05:02,024 --> 00:05:04,144 Speaker 1: all of this, and like her very important statement about 116 00:05:04,184 --> 00:05:06,344 Speaker 1: being judged for her looks and people telling her she 117 00:05:06,344 --> 00:05:07,944 Speaker 1: has like ugly and all this sort of stuff and 118 00:05:07,984 --> 00:05:11,064 Speaker 1: her pushing against it. She's also practicing witch, which is 119 00:05:11,184 --> 00:05:11,904 Speaker 1: very open about. 120 00:05:12,064 --> 00:05:13,744 Speaker 2: I was going to say she gives witch, and. 121 00:05:14,224 --> 00:05:16,824 Speaker 1: She's had to on her podcast and also in other 122 00:05:16,864 --> 00:05:20,744 Speaker 1: forms release a statement denying that she used magic, because 123 00:05:20,744 --> 00:05:23,744 Speaker 1: this is an real accusation for many people, that she 124 00:05:23,984 --> 00:05:27,144 Speaker 1: used magic to make Andrew Garfield fall in love with her, 125 00:05:27,544 --> 00:05:30,864 Speaker 1: because people are so angry that this ugly woman is 126 00:05:30,904 --> 00:05:32,344 Speaker 1: somehow dating again ugly. 127 00:05:32,384 --> 00:05:33,664 Speaker 3: That's their words, not ours. 128 00:05:33,944 --> 00:05:36,944 Speaker 1: She's very attractive from her photos, that she has used 129 00:05:36,944 --> 00:05:39,744 Speaker 1: magic to make Spider Man fall in love with her 130 00:05:39,784 --> 00:05:42,384 Speaker 1: and walk around the streets holding her hand, and there's 131 00:05:42,424 --> 00:05:44,144 Speaker 1: all these comments of people saying, look at her teeth, 132 00:05:44,184 --> 00:05:46,864 Speaker 1: look at her face, she's a witch. She's used magic, 133 00:05:46,904 --> 00:05:48,664 Speaker 1: and she's had to come out and be like I 134 00:05:48,704 --> 00:05:54,264 Speaker 1: would never use magic for that reason. She's not denying 135 00:05:54,264 --> 00:05:57,384 Speaker 1: that she couldn't do it. I would not use magic 136 00:05:57,544 --> 00:05:58,424 Speaker 1: for that course. 137 00:05:59,064 --> 00:06:02,424 Speaker 2: You deny that, I would say, of course I use magic, 138 00:06:02,584 --> 00:06:05,104 Speaker 2: and you know what you can too if you buy 139 00:06:05,144 --> 00:06:08,224 Speaker 2: my potion for fifty course. 140 00:06:10,384 --> 00:06:12,384 Speaker 1: Do have a course, But it's not about using magic 141 00:06:12,424 --> 00:06:14,144 Speaker 1: to force who would fall in love with you. Most 142 00:06:14,144 --> 00:06:16,544 Speaker 1: witches that's the only reason why I would use. Most 143 00:06:16,624 --> 00:06:19,304 Speaker 1: white witches are against that. It's a seduction course that 144 00:06:19,384 --> 00:06:24,784 Speaker 1: she teaches most white witches. Yeah, white magic, not why 145 00:06:24,984 --> 00:06:30,704 Speaker 1: and physically, which is a project. White magic is someone 146 00:06:30,744 --> 00:06:33,064 Speaker 1: who I grew up on witch TV, like Charmed and 147 00:06:33,744 --> 00:06:36,264 Speaker 1: the Craft and stuff. So I'm very cross this wouldn't 148 00:06:36,304 --> 00:06:38,744 Speaker 1: use magic because that's that leads to a whole lot 149 00:06:38,784 --> 00:06:42,784 Speaker 1: of consequences. But she does offer a seduction course through 150 00:06:42,824 --> 00:06:45,544 Speaker 1: her business, you too. I think she sounds like a 151 00:06:45,624 --> 00:06:47,984 Speaker 1: very hot, sexy woman who it sounds like she's very 152 00:06:48,024 --> 00:06:50,424 Speaker 1: in charge of what she wants, and I think that's 153 00:06:50,464 --> 00:06:52,304 Speaker 1: probably why Andrew Garfil fell in love with her, and 154 00:06:52,304 --> 00:06:53,464 Speaker 1: she didn't even need to cast a spell. 155 00:06:53,584 --> 00:06:56,584 Speaker 2: She doesn't sound so different to the TikTok life coaches 156 00:06:56,584 --> 00:06:57,744 Speaker 2: I see. 157 00:06:57,824 --> 00:06:58,984 Speaker 3: I just think like, this is the. 158 00:06:58,944 --> 00:07:01,864 Speaker 1: Stage that we're at that a perfectly normal woman who yes, 159 00:07:01,904 --> 00:07:04,504 Speaker 1: happens to be practicing witch is now dating a. 160 00:07:04,544 --> 00:07:07,464 Speaker 2: Hollywood people are saying it had to be magic. It 161 00:07:07,824 --> 00:07:08,664 Speaker 2: there's no other way. 162 00:07:08,784 --> 00:07:11,224 Speaker 1: This is where we've gone with Hollywood beauty standards now 163 00:07:11,504 --> 00:07:13,904 Speaker 1: that if you are just an ordinary woman dating a 164 00:07:13,944 --> 00:07:16,904 Speaker 1: man who's seen is attractive, you get accused of witchcraft 165 00:07:17,224 --> 00:07:19,624 Speaker 1: before you get accused of maybe having like a cute 166 00:07:19,664 --> 00:07:20,944 Speaker 1: faith and a nice personality. 167 00:07:21,064 --> 00:07:21,824 Speaker 3: That's where we're at. 168 00:07:22,024 --> 00:07:25,464 Speaker 2: The saddest thing about this is that with every woman 169 00:07:25,704 --> 00:07:30,024 Speaker 2: who's dated a man, you would know that you're always 170 00:07:30,064 --> 00:07:34,464 Speaker 2: comparing yourself to the ex and his ex's emmastone. She'd 171 00:07:34,504 --> 00:07:36,504 Speaker 2: already been doing that, and then the fact is you 172 00:07:36,504 --> 00:07:38,864 Speaker 2: have to rely on your friends and family to be like, no, 173 00:07:39,064 --> 00:07:41,184 Speaker 2: you're not like her, You're two different people, like he 174 00:07:41,224 --> 00:07:44,064 Speaker 2: loves you for you. But then she has the whole 175 00:07:44,104 --> 00:07:47,904 Speaker 2: world saying no, you're not like her. You should be upset, 176 00:07:48,224 --> 00:07:50,664 Speaker 2: like ya is insane. I would never be able to 177 00:07:50,704 --> 00:07:51,944 Speaker 2: cope like that exactly. 178 00:07:51,944 --> 00:07:53,544 Speaker 1: So she's come out and talked about it, but she's 179 00:07:53,584 --> 00:07:55,904 Speaker 1: not the first, I guess, quote unquote normal woman or 180 00:07:55,944 --> 00:07:58,664 Speaker 1: like an unfamous woman to date someone who was seen 181 00:07:58,664 --> 00:08:01,384 Speaker 1: as a Hollywood heart throb and then getting tense backlash. 182 00:08:01,544 --> 00:08:04,104 Speaker 1: Not just get intense backlash, but also have the man 183 00:08:04,224 --> 00:08:05,984 Speaker 1: kind of be held up of like, oh, he must 184 00:08:06,024 --> 00:08:08,384 Speaker 1: be such a nice guy if he's like dates such 185 00:08:08,384 --> 00:08:10,784 Speaker 1: an ugly woman. And it made me think, and these 186 00:08:10,824 --> 00:08:12,864 Speaker 1: headlines still make me sick. It made me think of 187 00:08:12,864 --> 00:08:15,544 Speaker 1: the first time that Keanu Reeves walked a red carpet 188 00:08:15,784 --> 00:08:19,544 Speaker 1: with his longtime girlfriend Alexander Grant. They're still together, they've 189 00:08:19,544 --> 00:08:21,984 Speaker 1: been like link since twenty nineteen, but they were together 190 00:08:22,064 --> 00:08:24,784 Speaker 1: long before that, before they did their first public appearance together. 191 00:08:25,104 --> 00:08:27,344 Speaker 1: And they walked down to that red carpet and there 192 00:08:27,424 --> 00:08:29,704 Speaker 1: was like this gasp across the world because they're. 193 00:08:29,504 --> 00:08:31,104 Speaker 3: Like, ah, he's dating her. 194 00:08:31,544 --> 00:08:33,784 Speaker 1: She's like very highly accomplished in all these things, but 195 00:08:33,824 --> 00:08:35,984 Speaker 1: she's got a movie stuff. Yeah, So people were like, oh, 196 00:08:35,984 --> 00:08:38,384 Speaker 1: he's dating a normal woman, but even worse than that 197 00:08:38,624 --> 00:08:40,624 Speaker 1: because she has gray hair. They were like, what could 198 00:08:40,624 --> 00:08:43,624 Speaker 1: he possibly see in her? You know, he's really lubered 199 00:08:43,704 --> 00:08:45,744 Speaker 1: himself to date her, and what a nice guy? Or 200 00:08:45,744 --> 00:08:48,504 Speaker 1: what has she got over him? Even though she's younger 201 00:08:48,544 --> 00:08:50,784 Speaker 1: than him. Yeah, she is younger than h oh, like 202 00:08:50,784 --> 00:08:52,784 Speaker 1: by a couple of years. Not crazy, but but you know, 203 00:08:52,984 --> 00:08:54,784 Speaker 1: if he had walked the red carpet was like a 204 00:08:54,784 --> 00:08:56,784 Speaker 1: young blonde woman who was twenty years younger, everyone would 205 00:08:56,784 --> 00:08:58,984 Speaker 1: be like, oh, classic Hollywood, like that's fine. 206 00:08:59,184 --> 00:09:00,944 Speaker 2: Like if he was with like Jennifer Addison or something, 207 00:09:01,024 --> 00:09:01,544 Speaker 2: they'd be like. 208 00:09:01,544 --> 00:09:03,304 Speaker 3: Yeah, nice, exactly. 209 00:09:03,344 --> 00:09:06,504 Speaker 1: But because this woman had gray hair and she wasn't famous, 210 00:09:06,544 --> 00:09:08,984 Speaker 1: and they didn't think she was like this conventional bombshell 211 00:09:09,384 --> 00:09:11,344 Speaker 1: that you'd see on a movie poster, there's always two 212 00:09:11,384 --> 00:09:14,464 Speaker 1: schools of thought in this case. Is that, oh, he's 213 00:09:14,504 --> 00:09:16,864 Speaker 1: such a nice guy to see past her ugliness even 214 00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:18,744 Speaker 1: though she's not ugly at all and they seem very 215 00:09:18,744 --> 00:09:21,584 Speaker 1: in love. Or what has she kind of done to 216 00:09:21,704 --> 00:09:24,584 Speaker 1: like what does him? Is she also a witch? 217 00:09:24,624 --> 00:09:26,424 Speaker 2: She blackmailed him to be in there? 218 00:09:27,064 --> 00:09:30,144 Speaker 1: Well, coming up next more famous man who have dated 219 00:09:30,464 --> 00:09:34,304 Speaker 1: quote unquote ugly women. It's the wildest story and what 220 00:09:34,584 --> 00:09:36,344 Speaker 1: people are really saying when they talk about. 221 00:09:36,184 --> 00:09:41,744 Speaker 2: This, talking about this, I remember this example that was 222 00:09:41,744 --> 00:09:45,224 Speaker 2: fairly recent, but it's not an Australian example, whereas in 223 00:09:45,264 --> 00:09:46,944 Speaker 2: like the people in Australia didn't really see it. But 224 00:09:46,984 --> 00:09:51,144 Speaker 2: I feel like internationally everyone saw it. Hugh Jackman, oh yes, 225 00:09:51,264 --> 00:09:53,864 Speaker 2: and Beverly Finess like we never saw it because Deborah 226 00:09:54,024 --> 00:09:55,864 Speaker 2: was like so famous for us and we were all like, 227 00:09:55,944 --> 00:09:59,184 Speaker 2: she's beautiful, she's studying, they're the perfect couple. But I remember, 228 00:09:59,304 --> 00:10:02,624 Speaker 2: like there's been so many interviews where he had to 229 00:10:02,704 --> 00:10:05,304 Speaker 2: like kind of talk about his marriage in a way 230 00:10:05,624 --> 00:10:07,744 Speaker 2: that was like kind of convincing people that yes, I 231 00:10:07,784 --> 00:10:08,904 Speaker 2: am in a happy marriage. 232 00:10:08,984 --> 00:10:10,704 Speaker 3: Yes, And I remember when. 233 00:10:10,664 --> 00:10:14,664 Speaker 2: They divorced that like people were like, oh, this makes 234 00:10:14,664 --> 00:10:17,544 Speaker 2: sense now, like of course they divorced, whereas like we were. 235 00:10:17,384 --> 00:10:18,704 Speaker 3: Shocked, Yeah, exactly. 236 00:10:18,864 --> 00:10:20,864 Speaker 1: That's one of the many cases where it's this idea 237 00:10:20,904 --> 00:10:23,104 Speaker 1: of like she must have had something over him, she 238 00:10:23,224 --> 00:10:26,304 Speaker 1: must have tricked him into something, even though he had 239 00:10:26,344 --> 00:10:28,624 Speaker 1: talked so candidly when they met that he was the 240 00:10:28,664 --> 00:10:30,864 Speaker 1: kind of struggling up and coming actor and she was 241 00:10:30,904 --> 00:10:33,864 Speaker 1: this cool woman about town in Australia that everyone was 242 00:10:33,904 --> 00:10:36,624 Speaker 1: obsessed with. And when she agreed to sort of meet 243 00:10:36,664 --> 00:10:38,784 Speaker 1: him for dinner for their first date, he couldn't believe 244 00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:41,304 Speaker 1: that this person that when she walked into a room, 245 00:10:41,344 --> 00:10:43,424 Speaker 1: everyone was drawn to her, Everyone went to her, everyone 246 00:10:43,464 --> 00:10:46,584 Speaker 1: loved her. That that magnetic person was going to date him, 247 00:10:46,984 --> 00:10:49,024 Speaker 1: And then when people saw pictures of them together over 248 00:10:49,024 --> 00:10:51,424 Speaker 1: the years, they were just like something fishy going on here. 249 00:10:51,424 --> 00:10:54,184 Speaker 2: Especially when he became really big in Hollywood with like 250 00:10:54,264 --> 00:10:55,664 Speaker 2: doing like X Men and stuff like that. 251 00:10:55,704 --> 00:10:56,304 Speaker 3: In the US. 252 00:10:56,664 --> 00:10:59,984 Speaker 2: I just remember all the international commentary on their relationship 253 00:11:00,104 --> 00:11:01,664 Speaker 2: was so gross towards her. 254 00:11:01,864 --> 00:11:04,144 Speaker 1: Oh, it's like with Pierce Brosnan and his wife Kiy, 255 00:11:04,384 --> 00:11:06,224 Speaker 1: Like there's been so many pictures them over the years, 256 00:11:06,224 --> 00:11:08,184 Speaker 1: because they were always like pashing on beaches and stuff. 257 00:11:08,224 --> 00:11:09,824 Speaker 1: For me, married for like forty years, it's the cutest 258 00:11:09,824 --> 00:11:12,584 Speaker 1: thing ever, always like making out on beaches and walking 259 00:11:12,584 --> 00:11:15,184 Speaker 1: around holding hands. And then people went up and dug 260 00:11:15,264 --> 00:11:17,624 Speaker 1: up photos when they first got together. And because you know, 261 00:11:17,744 --> 00:11:19,544 Speaker 1: she's younger and she hadn't had children yet and all 262 00:11:19,544 --> 00:11:22,144 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. Also, people's bodies changed without having children. 263 00:11:22,184 --> 00:11:25,144 Speaker 1: That's just a thing that happens. They were like, oh, okay, 264 00:11:25,224 --> 00:11:27,024 Speaker 1: so she was attractive when they met. It was like 265 00:11:27,064 --> 00:11:29,184 Speaker 1: a sigh of relief, like, oh, thank god, we found 266 00:11:29,184 --> 00:11:31,904 Speaker 1: a reason why Pierce bros and James Bond is with 267 00:11:32,504 --> 00:11:33,184 Speaker 1: this woman. 268 00:11:33,264 --> 00:11:35,064 Speaker 2: How dare she choose to age and change? 269 00:11:35,264 --> 00:11:37,504 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny. I rememberhen Jenny Slay, the amazing 270 00:11:37,544 --> 00:11:40,424 Speaker 1: comedian actress, started dating Chris Evans, and he was, you 271 00:11:40,464 --> 00:11:41,944 Speaker 1: know at the time, and I guess still is this 272 00:11:41,984 --> 00:11:44,544 Speaker 1: like Hollywood heart throb? And she was like she could 273 00:11:44,544 --> 00:11:47,744 Speaker 1: actually had to answer so many questions about them dating, 274 00:11:47,784 --> 00:11:49,424 Speaker 1: like how do you date someone more famous than you? 275 00:11:49,504 --> 00:11:51,504 Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, I guess I'm also pretty successful, 276 00:11:51,904 --> 00:11:54,784 Speaker 1: and also this idea that she's not conventionally attractive and 277 00:11:54,824 --> 00:11:56,584 Speaker 1: he's this like you know, he's Captain America. 278 00:11:56,744 --> 00:11:57,144 Speaker 3: Literally. 279 00:11:57,264 --> 00:11:59,384 Speaker 2: I remember everyone being like, oh, she must be really 280 00:11:59,464 --> 00:12:00,264 Speaker 2: really funny. 281 00:12:00,464 --> 00:12:01,784 Speaker 3: Yeah, and people would say to her. 282 00:12:01,864 --> 00:12:03,544 Speaker 1: There's like interviews with her and her carpet's like, oh, 283 00:12:03,584 --> 00:12:05,464 Speaker 1: so you must really make Chris laugh, and she's like, 284 00:12:05,584 --> 00:12:07,584 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's my job. I'm also really 285 00:12:07,624 --> 00:12:10,784 Speaker 1: good at tex Yeah, I'm sure I think it's vibe 286 00:12:10,864 --> 00:12:12,784 Speaker 1: was she never thought it was weird thing that he 287 00:12:12,864 --> 00:12:15,544 Speaker 1: was interested in her, but she was made aware of it. 288 00:12:15,864 --> 00:12:17,344 Speaker 1: And I think they didn't date for that long, and 289 00:12:17,384 --> 00:12:21,064 Speaker 1: it's probably because she was constantly being questioned about. 290 00:12:20,944 --> 00:12:22,544 Speaker 3: So, what do you think he's season you? 291 00:12:23,264 --> 00:12:25,624 Speaker 1: And like the subtext of that is like Jenny slat 292 00:12:25,824 --> 00:12:28,144 Speaker 1: super successful comedian actress. 293 00:12:27,984 --> 00:12:30,384 Speaker 3: Why is this hot man dating you when you're so ugly? 294 00:12:30,704 --> 00:12:33,544 Speaker 2: That's like that biggest fear of dating someone thinking that 295 00:12:33,584 --> 00:12:37,024 Speaker 2: we're like equally hot and then like the questions coming 296 00:12:37,024 --> 00:12:39,424 Speaker 2: with I'm going wait and we're not on the same Yeah, 297 00:12:39,544 --> 00:12:40,584 Speaker 2: we're not on the same level. 298 00:12:40,664 --> 00:12:41,344 Speaker 3: That's when you get that. 299 00:12:41,424 --> 00:12:43,064 Speaker 1: Well, it's a very telling thing of the of the 300 00:12:43,104 --> 00:12:45,584 Speaker 1: conversation around it, because I'm sure there's people out there saying, 301 00:12:45,784 --> 00:12:48,544 Speaker 1: it's not that these women are ugly if it's definitely 302 00:12:48,544 --> 00:12:50,544 Speaker 1: not all we're saying, but that's what commenters are saying, 303 00:12:50,784 --> 00:12:53,544 Speaker 1: and articles and people on red carpets, they're like, oh, 304 00:12:53,584 --> 00:12:56,704 Speaker 1: it's just interesting when someone non famous dates someone really famous, 305 00:12:56,744 --> 00:12:58,584 Speaker 1: but that's not the case. And I think a really 306 00:12:58,584 --> 00:13:01,024 Speaker 1: prime example of that is zac Efron. 307 00:13:01,064 --> 00:13:01,984 Speaker 3: Remember when he was. 308 00:13:01,944 --> 00:13:03,424 Speaker 1: Like he was in Australia for a really long time 309 00:13:04,664 --> 00:13:07,664 Speaker 1: Byron Bay and he started dating an actress Slash. 310 00:13:07,704 --> 00:13:09,264 Speaker 3: I think she was an influencer or something. 311 00:13:09,264 --> 00:13:11,384 Speaker 1: After that she was like a way a waitress and 312 00:13:11,424 --> 00:13:15,264 Speaker 1: a Byron Bay cafe, Vanessa Valderes, and they started dating 313 00:13:15,264 --> 00:13:16,944 Speaker 1: this that there was this whole story of like he 314 00:13:17,184 --> 00:13:20,064 Speaker 1: was this huge Hollywood heart throb, he'd come to Byron Bay, 315 00:13:20,384 --> 00:13:22,944 Speaker 1: he'd met this waitress at a cafe. They'd fallen madly 316 00:13:22,984 --> 00:13:25,624 Speaker 1: in love, and now they were together, and no one 317 00:13:25,784 --> 00:13:28,184 Speaker 1: was questioning that because she was hot, because she's like 318 00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:30,344 Speaker 1: a thin young woman, and everyone was like looked at 319 00:13:30,384 --> 00:13:32,064 Speaker 1: her and we're like, oh, she's got like a conventionally 320 00:13:32,104 --> 00:13:34,544 Speaker 1: attractive face in terms of like she's what we would 321 00:13:34,584 --> 00:13:38,304 Speaker 1: picture him with. And therefore no one was questioning should 322 00:13:38,344 --> 00:13:40,304 Speaker 1: they be together. No one thought it was weird that 323 00:13:40,504 --> 00:13:43,184 Speaker 1: he was famous and she wasn't. They were just like, 324 00:13:43,264 --> 00:13:45,384 Speaker 1: this is a rom com, this is a love story, 325 00:13:45,424 --> 00:13:48,824 Speaker 1: and everyone was so invested in, so behind it, and 326 00:13:48,904 --> 00:13:51,424 Speaker 1: the only difference between her and these other women is 327 00:13:51,464 --> 00:13:55,024 Speaker 1: that she looked like the person they thought a Hollywood 328 00:13:55,024 --> 00:13:55,864 Speaker 1: star should be dating. 329 00:13:55,944 --> 00:13:58,984 Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yes, I even remember the conversations around that, 330 00:13:59,104 --> 00:14:01,144 Speaker 2: because we were talking about a lot here. 331 00:14:01,064 --> 00:14:04,704 Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm going to Byron. Yeah, Like so. 332 00:14:04,824 --> 00:14:07,344 Speaker 2: No one was actually like, oh, that could have been 333 00:14:07,384 --> 00:14:09,824 Speaker 2: me because I've been to that restaurant, because we all 334 00:14:09,904 --> 00:14:11,344 Speaker 2: knew that. No, she's still a model. 335 00:14:11,584 --> 00:14:13,944 Speaker 3: Yes, something else happening there. 336 00:14:14,624 --> 00:14:16,704 Speaker 1: I know. It kind of just leans back into this 337 00:14:16,904 --> 00:14:19,104 Speaker 1: stereotype that's been in Hollywood for a long time, but 338 00:14:19,144 --> 00:14:21,784 Speaker 1: it does bleed into real life. Is that I know 339 00:14:21,824 --> 00:14:23,704 Speaker 1: this sounds like such a boring topic. Everyone's like, oh, 340 00:14:23,784 --> 00:14:26,304 Speaker 1: we get this, but it's so prevalent still today, which 341 00:14:26,344 --> 00:14:28,024 Speaker 1: is I think is like people talk about moving on 342 00:14:28,144 --> 00:14:30,624 Speaker 1: and that things are getting better, but I think we're 343 00:14:30,664 --> 00:14:34,184 Speaker 1: still very trapped in this idea that men can like 344 00:14:34,224 --> 00:14:36,704 Speaker 1: they obviously like they get big movie roles of they're attractive, 345 00:14:36,744 --> 00:14:38,624 Speaker 1: but there's also so many men in Hollywood that are 346 00:14:38,664 --> 00:14:41,864 Speaker 1: deemed unconventionally attractive, but they've got a great personality, or 347 00:14:41,864 --> 00:14:44,784 Speaker 1: they're in comedy and that stereotype of like the schlubby 348 00:14:44,824 --> 00:14:47,984 Speaker 1: guy who's like, you know, super funny and always has 349 00:14:47,984 --> 00:14:51,504 Speaker 1: this conventionally very attractive, thin young woman as his partner. 350 00:14:51,544 --> 00:14:53,864 Speaker 1: Like it's something that started like on sitcoms and TV 351 00:14:53,984 --> 00:14:56,944 Speaker 1: and then moved into like blockbuster movies, and you never 352 00:14:56,944 --> 00:14:59,944 Speaker 1: see the reverse of a woman who isn't super conventionally 353 00:14:59,984 --> 00:15:03,944 Speaker 1: attractive with a conventionally attractive man. It's like a woman 354 00:15:04,024 --> 00:15:06,624 Speaker 1: has to be all things and a man can just 355 00:15:06,704 --> 00:15:07,584 Speaker 1: be a bit funny. 356 00:15:07,984 --> 00:15:11,104 Speaker 2: I think it's also with the women, because I have 357 00:15:11,184 --> 00:15:14,984 Speaker 2: an example of like Selena Gomez and Bennie Blanco. People 358 00:15:14,984 --> 00:15:17,384 Speaker 2: were like so shocked that they've together because they deemed 359 00:15:17,464 --> 00:15:20,584 Speaker 2: him as like conventionally unattractive in her like so attractive. 360 00:15:21,024 --> 00:15:23,224 Speaker 2: But I also think with women, when you see other 361 00:15:23,304 --> 00:15:27,224 Speaker 2: women dating men who aren't also supermodels, you're like, oh, 362 00:15:27,344 --> 00:15:28,904 Speaker 2: you kind of like get it, Like you're like. 363 00:15:28,864 --> 00:15:29,904 Speaker 3: Oh, you was attractive. 364 00:15:30,024 --> 00:15:31,504 Speaker 1: Yeah, You're like, oh, he must be nice, he must 365 00:15:31,504 --> 00:15:33,384 Speaker 1: be funny. Like you see it instantly and you don't 366 00:15:33,384 --> 00:15:34,264 Speaker 1: think it's a weird thing. 367 00:15:34,424 --> 00:15:36,544 Speaker 2: And it comes down to like that whole trend of 368 00:15:36,624 --> 00:15:38,904 Speaker 2: like there are four different types of handsome for men, 369 00:15:39,064 --> 00:15:41,704 Speaker 2: but like with women, you're either hot or not, whereas men, 370 00:15:41,864 --> 00:15:44,184 Speaker 2: all men are attractive, there's just different types of them 371 00:15:44,304 --> 00:15:45,184 Speaker 2: that allow them to. 372 00:15:45,144 --> 00:15:46,184 Speaker 3: Be attractive exactly. 373 00:15:46,184 --> 00:15:47,824 Speaker 1: I think it's a whole rat boy train, Like that's 374 00:15:47,864 --> 00:15:50,704 Speaker 1: all about men who aren't seen as conventionally attractive because 375 00:15:50,704 --> 00:15:52,664 Speaker 1: they have features that aren't the typical kind of old 376 00:15:52,704 --> 00:15:53,984 Speaker 1: school Hollywood. 377 00:15:53,504 --> 00:15:54,864 Speaker 3: Clamor leading man. 378 00:15:55,224 --> 00:15:57,904 Speaker 1: But everyone's like losing their minds and frothing over them 379 00:15:58,144 --> 00:16:00,344 Speaker 1: because they're like, oh, it gives them a personality. It's 380 00:16:00,384 --> 00:16:03,504 Speaker 1: so interesting. But you never see rat girls, No you don't. 381 00:16:03,984 --> 00:16:06,344 Speaker 2: You'll be like, oh, that's an ugly woman, maybe the. 382 00:16:06,384 --> 00:16:08,824 Speaker 1: Side character actress or something like that, or they be 383 00:16:08,904 --> 00:16:11,064 Speaker 1: like the foil for the you know, a real leading 384 00:16:11,104 --> 00:16:12,704 Speaker 1: lady has to be conventionally attractive. 385 00:16:12,784 --> 00:16:15,544 Speaker 2: And it's just really unfortunate because with these men who 386 00:16:15,624 --> 00:16:18,544 Speaker 2: are dating quote unquote ugly women, like imagine seeing your 387 00:16:18,584 --> 00:16:21,664 Speaker 2: partner having to go through this constantly like that. There's 388 00:16:21,704 --> 00:16:23,344 Speaker 2: no way or relationship like that could. 389 00:16:23,224 --> 00:16:24,664 Speaker 3: Last exactly well. 390 00:16:24,704 --> 00:16:26,264 Speaker 1: I feel for Kate Tomas, and I mean, you know, 391 00:16:26,344 --> 00:16:29,384 Speaker 1: she sounds like super successful and very cast a spell 392 00:16:29,384 --> 00:16:31,424 Speaker 1: on them. I was aboud to say, Kate, you're a witch. 393 00:16:31,504 --> 00:16:33,304 Speaker 1: You now have familied to cast a spell on all 394 00:16:33,384 --> 00:16:36,824 Speaker 1: of these people. We're not judging you, if anything, we're 395 00:16:36,864 --> 00:16:39,464 Speaker 1: backing you use your magic for evil to hold the 396 00:16:39,504 --> 00:16:40,824 Speaker 1: people who wronged you to account. 397 00:16:41,184 --> 00:16:43,384 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today. 398 00:16:43,464 --> 00:16:46,664 Speaker 2: If you want more content from us, Cancel that's hosted 399 00:16:46,704 --> 00:16:50,744 Speaker 2: by Claire and Jesse. Stevens did a cancelation of zac Efron. 400 00:16:50,784 --> 00:16:53,344 Speaker 2: We will link that episode in our show notes. Otherwise, 401 00:16:53,344 --> 00:16:55,104 Speaker 2: we will see you back here in your podcast speed 402 00:16:55,144 --> 00:16:56,264 Speaker 2: at three pm tomorrow. 403 00:16:56,504 --> 00:17:02,464 Speaker 3: Bye bye, Lan