1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:19,942 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the. 4 00:00:19,902 --> 00:00:22,941 Speaker 3: Product had notes of geranium. Is that a flower? Yes, 5 00:00:23,102 --> 00:00:30,902 Speaker 3: yes it is citrusy Berger Mott Yes, Seda Absolute, Cedar, Ceda, Absolute, 6 00:00:31,582 --> 00:00:36,501 Speaker 3: Mask Rose and Mask Demid Right, Jesse, I know I 7 00:00:36,622 --> 00:00:38,422 Speaker 3: never said words before out loud. 8 00:00:38,422 --> 00:00:38,781 Speaker 4: We know. 9 00:00:43,182 --> 00:00:45,622 Speaker 2: Welcome to Mamma Mia. Out loud what women are actually 10 00:00:45,662 --> 00:00:48,782 Speaker 2: talking about On Wednesday, the twenty first of May. I'm 11 00:00:48,822 --> 00:00:51,262 Speaker 2: Holly Wainwright, I'm Meya Friedman. 12 00:00:51,142 --> 00:00:53,542 Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens and Melbourne. 13 00:00:53,582 --> 00:00:55,702 Speaker 2: We are going to be seeing you tomorrow night for 14 00:00:55,782 --> 00:00:58,542 Speaker 2: the last show of our twenty twenty five tour and 15 00:00:58,582 --> 00:01:03,742 Speaker 2: we are excited. But on today's show, when compassion bumps 16 00:01:03,782 --> 00:01:07,741 Speaker 2: into cover up the reckoning over Joe Biden's health, Tom 17 00:01:07,742 --> 00:01:11,142 Speaker 2: and Nicole, Tom and Katie and the man often called 18 00:01:11,182 --> 00:01:14,181 Speaker 2: the last great movie star remains one of our Roman 19 00:01:14,182 --> 00:01:17,782 Speaker 2: Empire obsessions. Why and the woman with heels in her bag, 20 00:01:17,902 --> 00:01:20,262 Speaker 2: the couple not talking at the restaurant, and the woman 21 00:01:20,302 --> 00:01:23,222 Speaker 2: who can't shut up about her early morning polates class. 22 00:01:23,502 --> 00:01:26,302 Speaker 2: Who is the woman you always told yourself you wouldn't 23 00:01:26,342 --> 00:01:28,462 Speaker 2: become but first Mia Friedman. 24 00:01:28,742 --> 00:01:31,662 Speaker 1: In case you missed it, the new Liberal leader, Susan Lay, 25 00:01:32,142 --> 00:01:35,142 Speaker 1: has had the most intense week of her life. First 26 00:01:35,182 --> 00:01:37,902 Speaker 1: she got a new job as opposition leader, then her 27 00:01:37,902 --> 00:01:41,661 Speaker 1: mother died, and now her coalition partner of eighty years, 28 00:01:41,702 --> 00:01:44,862 Speaker 1: the National Party has broken up with her, saying it's 29 00:01:44,862 --> 00:01:48,742 Speaker 1: not us, it's you. Now. The Nationals focus on rural 30 00:01:48,822 --> 00:01:51,462 Speaker 1: and regional Australia, and Holly is our regional correspondence, so 31 00:01:51,622 --> 00:01:54,022 Speaker 1: please explain to us why did they break up. 32 00:01:54,142 --> 00:01:56,822 Speaker 2: The Nationals do say that they are laser focused on 33 00:01:56,902 --> 00:01:59,702 Speaker 2: representing the nine million Aussies who do not live in 34 00:01:59,742 --> 00:02:02,382 Speaker 2: a capital city. Right, And this is a big problem 35 00:02:02,422 --> 00:02:05,502 Speaker 2: for the Libs because capital cities are who threw them 36 00:02:05,662 --> 00:02:09,142 Speaker 2: out this election. So the Liberals no longer have anyone 37 00:02:09,222 --> 00:02:11,462 Speaker 2: voting for them in the capital cities and they want 38 00:02:11,501 --> 00:02:13,782 Speaker 2: to win them back. So the Libs are kind of 39 00:02:13,862 --> 00:02:17,782 Speaker 2: like you. Nationals are like our country cousins who are 40 00:02:17,782 --> 00:02:20,382 Speaker 2: making us appear a little bit daggy in front of 41 00:02:20,422 --> 00:02:21,942 Speaker 2: all the cool city people. 42 00:02:22,181 --> 00:02:22,341 Speaker 1: Right. 43 00:02:22,862 --> 00:02:24,862 Speaker 2: So the Libs are saying, so can you change a bit, 44 00:02:25,062 --> 00:02:27,702 Speaker 2: like can you have a bit of a makeover so 45 00:02:27,742 --> 00:02:30,302 Speaker 2: that we could appeal to those city people, and the 46 00:02:30,422 --> 00:02:33,662 Speaker 2: Nationals are saying, but hold on, we won all our seats, 47 00:02:34,181 --> 00:02:37,062 Speaker 2: so why should we change when people like us like 48 00:02:37,181 --> 00:02:40,782 Speaker 2: we are. It's you guys who lost. It's not us, 49 00:02:40,902 --> 00:02:43,782 Speaker 2: it's you. That's kind of what has happened. 50 00:02:44,022 --> 00:02:46,262 Speaker 3: What I want to know is what the impact of 51 00:02:46,302 --> 00:02:48,502 Speaker 3: this is going to be, because this is one of 52 00:02:48,542 --> 00:02:51,221 Speaker 3: the longest standing I think it is the longest standing 53 00:02:51,502 --> 00:02:54,422 Speaker 3: political coalition in the world. This isn't the first time 54 00:02:54,462 --> 00:02:57,582 Speaker 3: that they've split, although it's been very short term when 55 00:02:57,622 --> 00:02:58,862 Speaker 3: they've split in the past. 56 00:02:59,181 --> 00:03:02,022 Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty seven they had a little break like Ross 57 00:03:02,022 --> 00:03:04,302 Speaker 1: and Rachel, and they think they did got. 58 00:03:04,181 --> 00:03:07,342 Speaker 3: Back together, which is lovely. But does this mean that 59 00:03:07,422 --> 00:03:11,462 Speaker 3: the Liberal Party would be moving more sort of centrist 60 00:03:11,622 --> 00:03:14,422 Speaker 3: because the Nationals are often positioned as being a bit 61 00:03:14,462 --> 00:03:15,822 Speaker 3: more conservative than the Liberals. 62 00:03:15,862 --> 00:03:19,062 Speaker 2: Right, the Nationals have said that in this big reckoning 63 00:03:19,102 --> 00:03:21,462 Speaker 2: that the Libs are having, they want to hold on 64 00:03:21,542 --> 00:03:23,621 Speaker 2: to some of the things they took to the Parliament, 65 00:03:23,662 --> 00:03:27,022 Speaker 2: notably nuclear power, right, the commitment to nuclear power, and 66 00:03:27,062 --> 00:03:29,422 Speaker 2: the Libs have realized that that's on the nose. So yes, 67 00:03:29,462 --> 00:03:31,982 Speaker 2: the Libs have got to remake themselves to make themselves 68 00:03:32,022 --> 00:03:35,502 Speaker 2: look sexy and the nats they think are holding them 69 00:03:35,502 --> 00:03:38,502 Speaker 2: back a bit. But to MEA's point about Ross and Rachel, 70 00:03:38,902 --> 00:03:41,222 Speaker 2: a lot of people are saying this is just a break, 71 00:03:41,262 --> 00:03:43,822 Speaker 2: it is not a divorce, because neither of these parties 72 00:03:43,822 --> 00:03:46,742 Speaker 2: can ever get back into Parliament without each other, so 73 00:03:46,862 --> 00:03:49,502 Speaker 2: this might be a little bit. Let's pretend we've broken 74 00:03:49,582 --> 00:03:54,222 Speaker 2: up during the relaunch phase, but before the wedding, we 75 00:03:54,302 --> 00:03:55,342 Speaker 2: might just get back together. 76 00:03:55,542 --> 00:03:57,582 Speaker 1: I wonder if they might have a little rebound with 77 00:03:57,822 --> 00:04:01,422 Speaker 1: Clive Palmer's party or pull In Hanson's party in. 78 00:04:01,342 --> 00:04:05,182 Speaker 2: Case you missed it. The main streaming of medical weight loss, 79 00:04:05,382 --> 00:04:09,062 Speaker 2: including gpl on drugs like ozempic, we go vi, monduro 80 00:04:09,222 --> 00:04:13,022 Speaker 2: become more and more common, might also bring down the 81 00:04:13,062 --> 00:04:17,302 Speaker 2: price of airline tickets. Apparently, this is kind of interesting 82 00:04:17,342 --> 00:04:21,141 Speaker 2: to think about. The collective human weight of a plane 83 00:04:21,902 --> 00:04:25,061 Speaker 2: accounts for about twenty five percent of the costs for 84 00:04:25,101 --> 00:04:28,702 Speaker 2: the airline because obviously the heavier the plane, the more 85 00:04:28,821 --> 00:04:31,022 Speaker 2: fuel you need. That's why they weigh our bags, that's 86 00:04:31,022 --> 00:04:32,981 Speaker 2: why they have limits on what you can take on board, 87 00:04:33,022 --> 00:04:36,421 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, and so generally the thinking is 88 00:04:36,981 --> 00:04:40,621 Speaker 2: if people weigh less because as a culture, as a 89 00:04:40,662 --> 00:04:43,781 Speaker 2: widespread phenomena, people are losing weight because of these drugs, 90 00:04:44,061 --> 00:04:47,581 Speaker 2: it could cost less to fly a plane. United Airlines 91 00:04:47,582 --> 00:04:51,181 Speaker 2: in the States estimate if the average passenger weight drops 92 00:04:51,181 --> 00:04:55,981 Speaker 2: by about five kilos, United Airlines could save twenty seven 93 00:04:56,061 --> 00:05:00,101 Speaker 2: million gallons of fuel per year and save about eighty 94 00:05:00,301 --> 00:05:04,181 Speaker 2: million dollars. Now, of course, we know that companies don't 95 00:05:04,181 --> 00:05:07,782 Speaker 2: always pass on save costs to consumers, so we might 96 00:05:07,821 --> 00:05:10,501 Speaker 2: be a bit suspicious of this idea. Suddenly everything's going 97 00:05:10,582 --> 00:05:13,702 Speaker 2: to get cheaper. But is this just a sign of 98 00:05:13,861 --> 00:05:16,261 Speaker 2: just how widespread the effects could be of these so 99 00:05:16,421 --> 00:05:17,582 Speaker 2: called miracle drugs. 100 00:05:17,861 --> 00:05:21,462 Speaker 1: You know, this is interesting. It's talking about the consequences 101 00:05:21,541 --> 00:05:24,782 Speaker 1: and the knock on effects that people might have not considered. 102 00:05:25,501 --> 00:05:28,702 Speaker 1: Some of the others is just a change in spending 103 00:05:28,981 --> 00:05:31,822 Speaker 1: and behavior. So, for example, one of the effects of 104 00:05:31,861 --> 00:05:34,021 Speaker 1: these golp one drugs for a lot of people is 105 00:05:34,061 --> 00:05:37,141 Speaker 1: that they've got less desire to drink alcohol and even 106 00:05:37,181 --> 00:05:40,702 Speaker 1: do things like bite their nails or shop compulsively, some 107 00:05:40,782 --> 00:05:45,381 Speaker 1: of the things that these drugs inhibit. And so already 108 00:05:45,421 --> 00:05:49,342 Speaker 1: they're seeing a reduction in the basket size in a 109 00:05:49,381 --> 00:05:53,022 Speaker 1: lot of grocery stores, particularly in America, that they're putting 110 00:05:53,101 --> 00:05:55,981 Speaker 1: down to this. Even things like gambling, all of those 111 00:05:56,101 --> 00:06:00,782 Speaker 1: kind of impulses are said to be reduced by golp one. 112 00:06:00,981 --> 00:06:03,181 Speaker 1: So we don't yet know what the knock on effects 113 00:06:03,181 --> 00:06:04,342 Speaker 1: of all of those things are going to be. 114 00:06:04,702 --> 00:06:09,101 Speaker 3: The question of how a society and culture changes. I 115 00:06:09,101 --> 00:06:12,621 Speaker 3: mean the predictions that half of say a UK or 116 00:06:12,621 --> 00:06:15,582 Speaker 3: a US or an Australian population could be on these drugs, 117 00:06:15,981 --> 00:06:18,662 Speaker 3: So the question of how that impacts how a society 118 00:06:18,741 --> 00:06:22,782 Speaker 3: arranges itself is fascinating. One I've read about is reduced 119 00:06:22,902 --> 00:06:26,902 Speaker 3: sick days, because we know that everything from blood pressure 120 00:06:26,981 --> 00:06:30,621 Speaker 3: to heart disease to obviously the diabetes impact. People are saying, 121 00:06:30,782 --> 00:06:34,301 Speaker 3: if health is improved, then you've got less sick days 122 00:06:34,301 --> 00:06:39,342 Speaker 3: for people. The other is how gyms are being rearranged. 123 00:06:39,861 --> 00:06:44,142 Speaker 3: So there is an enormous focus on building muscle, because 124 00:06:44,142 --> 00:06:47,062 Speaker 3: if you are on these drugs then it can have 125 00:06:47,101 --> 00:06:50,902 Speaker 3: an impact on your muscle. So rather than having we've 126 00:06:50,941 --> 00:06:53,021 Speaker 3: spoken about this on the show before ten years ago, 127 00:06:53,061 --> 00:06:56,421 Speaker 3: the cardio floor was full of women on treadmills. Now 128 00:06:56,981 --> 00:06:58,622 Speaker 3: it looks like a lot of gyms are going to 129 00:06:58,662 --> 00:07:01,702 Speaker 3: have to reorganize themselves so that their strength and weight 130 00:07:01,782 --> 00:07:04,741 Speaker 3: flaws are more of a focus. And there are personal 131 00:07:04,782 --> 00:07:07,861 Speaker 3: trainers and programs that focus on people who are on 132 00:07:07,981 --> 00:07:11,342 Speaker 3: these drugs and need to do particular exercises. And the 133 00:07:11,381 --> 00:07:16,142 Speaker 3: other thing is the impact on social and family lives. 134 00:07:16,182 --> 00:07:19,701 Speaker 3: There was an article in the Telegraph UK about you 135 00:07:19,742 --> 00:07:25,782 Speaker 3: know what happens when the dinner table? Isn't this focus 136 00:07:25,862 --> 00:07:30,022 Speaker 3: in family life because maybe some people aren't particularly interested 137 00:07:30,142 --> 00:07:34,341 Speaker 3: in food anymore. I did hear someone say, remember Yohn 138 00:07:34,381 --> 00:07:38,342 Speaker 3: Hari wrote a book he talked about how it changed 139 00:07:38,422 --> 00:07:42,261 Speaker 3: him some of these drugs, And I heard someone ask recently, 140 00:07:42,422 --> 00:07:46,982 Speaker 3: what is the impact if half a population has been 141 00:07:47,342 --> 00:07:52,182 Speaker 3: dealing with some emotional issues through food, which we know 142 00:07:52,302 --> 00:07:54,941 Speaker 3: that's not for everyone, but for some people that is 143 00:07:55,222 --> 00:07:59,821 Speaker 3: a crutch. Where does that go? Because for yo Han Hari, 144 00:07:59,941 --> 00:08:01,782 Speaker 3: he said that he was confronted with a lot of 145 00:08:02,182 --> 00:08:06,262 Speaker 3: psychological issues that he hadn't explored before because he was 146 00:08:06,302 --> 00:08:09,782 Speaker 3: able to cover them with emotional eating. So we just 147 00:08:09,821 --> 00:08:12,701 Speaker 3: find it fascinating to think what the world might look 148 00:08:12,782 --> 00:08:16,422 Speaker 3: like in five or ten years when a drug takes 149 00:08:16,422 --> 00:08:17,261 Speaker 3: over a population. 150 00:08:17,542 --> 00:08:21,141 Speaker 1: And obviously we are not recommending anyone takes these drugs 151 00:08:21,182 --> 00:08:23,342 Speaker 1: or doesn't take these drugs. That's a conversation for you 152 00:08:23,381 --> 00:08:24,142 Speaker 1: and your doctor. 153 00:08:25,302 --> 00:08:28,782 Speaker 3: Over the weekend, a spokesman for former President Joe Biden 154 00:08:28,862 --> 00:08:31,862 Speaker 3: announced that the eighty two year old had been diagnosed 155 00:08:31,941 --> 00:08:36,702 Speaker 3: with aggressive prostate cancer. In a statement, his office said 156 00:08:36,862 --> 00:08:40,502 Speaker 3: he had been having increasing urinary symptoms and was last 157 00:08:40,622 --> 00:08:44,342 Speaker 3: week seen by doctors there. He was diagnosed with prostate 158 00:08:44,382 --> 00:08:48,342 Speaker 3: cancer and the cancer cells have spread it to the bone. Now, 159 00:08:48,462 --> 00:08:52,222 Speaker 3: prostate cancer is something you might often hear men die 160 00:08:52,302 --> 00:08:55,822 Speaker 3: with rather than of. It is highly survivable, with about 161 00:08:55,822 --> 00:08:59,142 Speaker 3: one in six men being diagnosed in their lifetime. But 162 00:08:59,222 --> 00:09:02,182 Speaker 3: it is also the second leading cause of cancer death 163 00:09:02,262 --> 00:09:05,102 Speaker 3: in men. And there's a scale called the Gleason Scale 164 00:09:05,142 --> 00:09:07,542 Speaker 3: when it comes to prostate cancer, and it ranges from 165 00:09:07,582 --> 00:09:10,942 Speaker 3: six to ten in severity, and Biden's cancer sits at 166 00:09:10,942 --> 00:09:14,502 Speaker 3: a nine. That's why it's being described as aggressive. President 167 00:09:14,542 --> 00:09:18,262 Speaker 3: Donald Trump expressed his sympathy for Biden, but then went 168 00:09:18,302 --> 00:09:21,302 Speaker 3: on to cast doubt about the timing of his advanced 169 00:09:21,382 --> 00:09:24,142 Speaker 3: cancer diagnosis. Here are some of what he said. 170 00:09:24,542 --> 00:09:28,262 Speaker 4: I think it's very sad. Actually, I'm surprised that it 171 00:09:28,342 --> 00:09:31,262 Speaker 4: wasn't you know, the public wasn't notified a long time ago, 172 00:09:31,462 --> 00:09:33,662 Speaker 4: because they get to stage nine. That's a long time. 173 00:09:33,902 --> 00:09:36,502 Speaker 4: So it's a look, it's a very very sad situation. 174 00:09:36,702 --> 00:09:40,302 Speaker 4: I feel very badly about it, and I think people 175 00:09:40,342 --> 00:09:42,622 Speaker 4: should try and find out what happened, because I'll tell 176 00:09:42,662 --> 00:09:44,422 Speaker 4: you the Walt I don't know if it had anything 177 00:09:44,422 --> 00:09:46,702 Speaker 4: to do with the hospital. Walter Reader is really good. 178 00:09:47,502 --> 00:09:49,462 Speaker 4: They're some of the best doctors I've ever seen. I 179 00:09:49,502 --> 00:09:52,262 Speaker 4: don't even know if they were involved, but a doctor 180 00:09:52,382 --> 00:09:55,382 Speaker 4: was involved in each case. Maybe it was the same doctor. 181 00:09:55,822 --> 00:09:59,142 Speaker 4: And somebody is not telling the facts. That's a big problem. 182 00:10:00,302 --> 00:10:03,982 Speaker 3: But Trump isn't the only one inviting speculation on Biden's health. 183 00:10:04,142 --> 00:10:06,462 Speaker 3: A book is about to be released called Original Sin. 184 00:10:06,582 --> 00:10:09,182 Speaker 3: It's all about the alleged cover up of Biden's physical 185 00:10:09,182 --> 00:10:12,782 Speaker 3: and mental deterioration by his inner circle. And there's a 186 00:10:12,822 --> 00:10:16,542 Speaker 3: story in there about him not recognizing George Clooney, who 187 00:10:16,582 --> 00:10:19,622 Speaker 3: was not only a very longtime friend decades and decades 188 00:10:19,742 --> 00:10:23,142 Speaker 3: their relationship had gone on major donor to the Democrats, 189 00:10:23,302 --> 00:10:27,462 Speaker 3: but he is also George Clooney. Maya, how much of 190 00:10:27,502 --> 00:10:31,382 Speaker 3: this is a conspiracy theory that serves the Republican Party, 191 00:10:31,782 --> 00:10:35,982 Speaker 3: and how much of it is about legitimate political reporting. 192 00:10:36,502 --> 00:10:39,382 Speaker 1: I think it's both, and I think it's so sad. 193 00:10:39,862 --> 00:10:42,982 Speaker 1: And I've been reading a few excerpts of this book 194 00:10:43,062 --> 00:10:46,142 Speaker 1: that's coming out, co authored by Jack Tapper, who's a 195 00:10:46,182 --> 00:10:49,782 Speaker 1: CNN reporter and who was actually one of the moderators 196 00:10:49,822 --> 00:10:56,502 Speaker 1: on that debate where Biden was so catastrophically revealed his 197 00:10:56,582 --> 00:10:59,142 Speaker 1: decline in that first debate against Trump, and he sort 198 00:10:59,142 --> 00:11:01,102 Speaker 1: of never recovered from that, held on for sort of 199 00:11:01,102 --> 00:11:04,742 Speaker 1: three weeks, but then had to leave. And when this 200 00:11:04,902 --> 00:11:09,862 Speaker 1: news broke, I thought, Oh, that's going to make that conversation, 201 00:11:09,942 --> 00:11:13,062 Speaker 1: which I think is a really legitimate conversation about whether 202 00:11:13,222 --> 00:11:17,702 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and particularly those close to Biden covered 203 00:11:17,782 --> 00:11:21,342 Speaker 1: up his decline and kept it from the public. That 204 00:11:21,462 --> 00:11:23,622 Speaker 1: conversation won't be able to be had now because it's 205 00:11:23,622 --> 00:11:26,102 Speaker 1: incredibly awkward and the timing is awful, and it seems 206 00:11:26,142 --> 00:11:30,062 Speaker 1: really insensitive. That grab from Trump was really indicative of 207 00:11:30,102 --> 00:11:32,662 Speaker 1: the mood where it starts, everyone's like thoughts and prayers. 208 00:11:32,702 --> 00:11:35,302 Speaker 1: This is tragic to a man who's experienced so much tragedy. 209 00:11:35,342 --> 00:11:39,382 Speaker 1: You know, he lost his baby daughter and his first 210 00:11:39,382 --> 00:11:43,062 Speaker 1: wife in a car accident, and his eldest son to 211 00:11:43,102 --> 00:11:45,382 Speaker 1: a brain tumor a number of years ago. His surviving 212 00:11:45,382 --> 00:11:50,542 Speaker 1: two children spiraled into drug addiction. But it's very quickly 213 00:11:50,622 --> 00:11:55,542 Speaker 1: given way to this actually reinforcing the idea that there's 214 00:11:55,582 --> 00:11:58,342 Speaker 1: been a cover up, because you know Trump, you'll be 215 00:11:58,342 --> 00:12:00,022 Speaker 1: shocked to him he spoke when he said stage nine. 216 00:12:00,022 --> 00:12:01,542 Speaker 1: There's no stage nine, but he was talking about the 217 00:12:01,542 --> 00:12:04,182 Speaker 1: Gleason scale. And it's true. There are tests that can 218 00:12:04,422 --> 00:12:08,261 Speaker 1: pick up prostate cancer much much earlier blood tests and 219 00:12:08,382 --> 00:12:11,982 Speaker 1: more regular exams. And that suggests that either he's known 220 00:12:12,022 --> 00:12:15,222 Speaker 1: for a really long time, or he wasn't attending to 221 00:12:15,302 --> 00:12:18,942 Speaker 1: his physical health and perhaps not looking after himself in 222 00:12:18,982 --> 00:12:21,022 Speaker 1: the way that we would have been led to expect. 223 00:12:21,622 --> 00:12:24,302 Speaker 2: Is there any suggestion that the announcement is to do 224 00:12:24,382 --> 00:12:28,142 Speaker 2: with those books because this conversation about cover up, and 225 00:12:28,342 --> 00:12:30,822 Speaker 2: I listened to interviews with the authors of those books 226 00:12:31,342 --> 00:12:33,622 Speaker 2: just recently. In the lead up to those coming out, 227 00:12:33,622 --> 00:12:36,381 Speaker 2: because obviously the Bidens knew they were coming out, they 228 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,142 Speaker 2: went and did some carefully choreographed press appearances. They went 229 00:12:40,182 --> 00:12:43,182 Speaker 2: on a daytime show, Jill and Joe Show's not Jill 230 00:12:43,182 --> 00:12:45,502 Speaker 2: and Joe. Jill and Joe went on the daytime show 231 00:12:46,062 --> 00:12:49,102 Speaker 2: and it didn't really help them very much. But apparently 232 00:12:49,142 --> 00:12:54,102 Speaker 2: the Biden camp are absolutely furious about these books and 233 00:12:54,182 --> 00:12:58,302 Speaker 2: this reporting and feel furious about it. So is the 234 00:12:58,422 --> 00:13:02,142 Speaker 2: conspiracy going as far as to say that maybe the 235 00:13:02,182 --> 00:13:04,542 Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis has been known for a long time, but 236 00:13:04,702 --> 00:13:07,542 Speaker 2: it's been pulled out to hopefully dull the impact of 237 00:13:07,582 --> 00:13:08,902 Speaker 2: these books. Is anyone saying that. 238 00:13:08,942 --> 00:13:11,502 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, yes, of course, and we don't know. 239 00:13:11,742 --> 00:13:14,022 Speaker 1: The truth is we don't know, and there has been 240 00:13:14,062 --> 00:13:18,742 Speaker 1: You're right, an aggressive campaign by the Biden family. They're 241 00:13:18,742 --> 00:13:21,422 Speaker 1: fighting for his legacy. Now, Yeah, will he go down 242 00:13:21,622 --> 00:13:25,902 Speaker 1: as the president who beat Trump or the president who 243 00:13:26,142 --> 00:13:28,942 Speaker 1: allowed Trump to come back into office because he's stubbornly 244 00:13:29,062 --> 00:13:31,942 Speaker 1: held on and shouldn't have even been running for reelection 245 00:13:32,062 --> 00:13:32,982 Speaker 1: because he was too old. 246 00:13:33,182 --> 00:13:36,022 Speaker 2: It feels really cruel in a way that this is 247 00:13:36,062 --> 00:13:38,062 Speaker 2: all happening at once, Right. 248 00:13:38,222 --> 00:13:42,982 Speaker 3: It's difficult when you've got a reckoning happening in the 249 00:13:43,022 --> 00:13:46,942 Speaker 3: Democrats within the Democratic Party, which needed to happen and 250 00:13:47,102 --> 00:13:50,702 Speaker 3: which there was. Remember the open letter that George Clooney 251 00:13:50,702 --> 00:13:52,782 Speaker 3: wrote saying Joe Biden is a friend of mine, but 252 00:13:52,822 --> 00:13:55,022 Speaker 3: he needs to step down as reclined was a part 253 00:13:55,022 --> 00:13:59,502 Speaker 3: of that reckoning and that is justified, and it's also 254 00:13:59,582 --> 00:14:03,502 Speaker 3: about making the Democrats better and stronger. But that is 255 00:14:03,542 --> 00:14:07,542 Speaker 3: being weaponized, as often happens when you know, you try 256 00:14:07,542 --> 00:14:12,302 Speaker 3: and do legitimate analysis actors who are coming in and 257 00:14:12,342 --> 00:14:17,382 Speaker 3: sort of suggesting that it's more of a conspiracy theory 258 00:14:17,422 --> 00:14:22,342 Speaker 3: and actually Jill Biden is responsible for elder abuse, which 259 00:14:22,382 --> 00:14:25,582 Speaker 3: is what someone in Trump's camp has actually said. Donald 260 00:14:25,622 --> 00:14:29,262 Speaker 3: Trump Junior has said that it's yet another cover up, 261 00:14:29,302 --> 00:14:31,262 Speaker 3: and he shared an old video. I must say that 262 00:14:31,342 --> 00:14:34,142 Speaker 3: this old video feels somewhat relevant in this moment. It's 263 00:14:34,182 --> 00:14:38,462 Speaker 3: from twenty twenty two, and Biden is talking about environmental 264 00:14:38,542 --> 00:14:43,502 Speaker 3: pollution and he concludes, that's why I and so many 265 00:14:43,542 --> 00:14:47,062 Speaker 3: other people I grew up with have cancer. And at 266 00:14:47,062 --> 00:14:51,142 Speaker 3: the time some people said, oh, has he misspoken. Biden's 267 00:14:51,182 --> 00:14:53,302 Speaker 3: camp came out and said he was talking about skin 268 00:14:53,342 --> 00:14:56,622 Speaker 3: cancers because he'd gotten skin cancers removed. There is a 269 00:14:56,622 --> 00:15:00,302 Speaker 3: world in which Biden knew he had prostate cancer. Then 270 00:15:00,462 --> 00:15:02,782 Speaker 3: I know lots of men with prostate cancer who are 271 00:15:02,782 --> 00:15:04,902 Speaker 3: not worried about it because it's something that you can 272 00:15:05,102 --> 00:15:08,462 Speaker 3: live with. Right, If he did have prostate cancer in 273 00:15:08,502 --> 00:15:11,142 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two and it was looking all right. He 274 00:15:11,462 --> 00:15:17,182 Speaker 3: was getting appropriate treatment. Do we think it was entirely 275 00:15:17,982 --> 00:15:20,462 Speaker 3: relevant or necessary for us to know about it? What 276 00:15:20,502 --> 00:15:21,222 Speaker 3: do you guys think? 277 00:15:21,662 --> 00:15:25,182 Speaker 1: Yeah? I do, because they've got issues in America with 278 00:15:25,222 --> 00:15:29,062 Speaker 1: their whole political system. They have a flaw age limit. 279 00:15:29,102 --> 00:15:32,862 Speaker 1: You can't run for president unless you're thirty five or older, 280 00:15:33,502 --> 00:15:36,982 Speaker 1: because they acknowledge that cognitively and from a life experience 281 00:15:37,022 --> 00:15:40,982 Speaker 1: point of view, a certain amount of life experience and 282 00:15:41,222 --> 00:15:44,582 Speaker 1: maturity is required to be the president. But a huge 283 00:15:44,702 --> 00:15:49,502 Speaker 1: number of members of Congress are over eighty. Trump is 284 00:15:49,502 --> 00:15:51,982 Speaker 1: the oldest president that we have. The fact that Biden 285 00:15:52,902 --> 00:15:55,382 Speaker 1: he was really pushing it when he ran against Trump, 286 00:15:55,422 --> 00:15:57,102 Speaker 1: and it was great that he won, but he always 287 00:15:57,142 --> 00:15:58,622 Speaker 1: said at the time that he would just be a 288 00:15:58,662 --> 00:16:02,982 Speaker 1: bridge to a new generation. And then he decided that 289 00:16:03,102 --> 00:16:05,702 Speaker 1: he wasn't and that he could do it. And you know, 290 00:16:05,822 --> 00:16:08,382 Speaker 1: Jake Tappa, the author of this book, is not a hack. 291 00:16:08,502 --> 00:16:12,062 Speaker 1: He's not partisan. He's a proper reporter. And I think 292 00:16:12,102 --> 00:16:16,222 Speaker 1: that just because Trump is awful doesn't mean that the 293 00:16:16,262 --> 00:16:19,622 Speaker 1: Democrats were not doing some really bad things. Not all 294 00:16:19,662 --> 00:16:22,462 Speaker 1: of the Democrats, but the ones who covered up his declining. 295 00:16:21,982 --> 00:16:26,582 Speaker 3: Health prostate cancer doesn't impact your cognitive ability, and there's 296 00:16:26,582 --> 00:16:27,742 Speaker 3: this strange thing that happens. 297 00:16:27,742 --> 00:16:28,982 Speaker 2: They're two different things. 298 00:16:29,222 --> 00:16:31,502 Speaker 1: No, No, the whole argument is that he was not 299 00:16:32,022 --> 00:16:34,702 Speaker 1: fit to run, that he was not in physical and 300 00:16:34,742 --> 00:16:36,102 Speaker 1: mental health, that he was too old. 301 00:16:36,462 --> 00:16:39,982 Speaker 3: And in the US there's this bizarre thing that happens 302 00:16:39,982 --> 00:16:42,302 Speaker 3: that happened just last month with Trump, which is a 303 00:16:42,342 --> 00:16:46,262 Speaker 3: public medical examination where for some reason we get access 304 00:16:46,462 --> 00:16:49,822 Speaker 3: to how much they weigh to heart to liver. For 305 00:16:49,862 --> 00:16:53,382 Speaker 3: some reason, I know that Donald Trump has a benign 306 00:16:53,662 --> 00:16:58,462 Speaker 3: colon polyp and his doctor has come out and said, yep, 307 00:16:58,662 --> 00:17:01,702 Speaker 3: in great health, wonderful. And I think that this has 308 00:17:01,702 --> 00:17:04,582 Speaker 3: something to do with his frequent victories in golf events. 309 00:17:05,022 --> 00:17:07,942 Speaker 3: So in a way, this has been a joke. This 310 00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:12,262 Speaker 3: medical examination, which is your own doctor or whatever, has 311 00:17:12,382 --> 00:17:14,821 Speaker 3: kind of been sent up for a little while. Holly, 312 00:17:14,861 --> 00:17:17,701 Speaker 3: do you think it's relevant the prostate cancer thing or 313 00:17:17,742 --> 00:17:18,902 Speaker 3: is it the cover up? 314 00:17:18,942 --> 00:17:21,982 Speaker 2: I think MEA's point is correct. I think it's relevant broadly. 315 00:17:22,542 --> 00:17:25,061 Speaker 2: It's really interesting. You know, the way that this is 316 00:17:25,101 --> 00:17:28,462 Speaker 2: all rolling out is in some ways it's like an 317 00:17:28,462 --> 00:17:31,542 Speaker 2: act of self harm for the Democrats, because they should 318 00:17:31,542 --> 00:17:34,421 Speaker 2: be looking forward, not back. Right, they should really be 319 00:17:34,542 --> 00:17:38,701 Speaker 2: doing that. Every single piece of energy in any anti 320 00:17:38,782 --> 00:17:41,581 Speaker 2: Trump campaign should be well, who is the next guy 321 00:17:41,782 --> 00:17:44,142 Speaker 2: or woman, who is the next person who is going 322 00:17:44,182 --> 00:17:46,102 Speaker 2: to do this? And where are we going to find them? 323 00:17:46,101 --> 00:17:48,141 Speaker 2: And how are we going to avoid all the mistakes 324 00:17:48,581 --> 00:17:51,661 Speaker 2: that were made last year with the rush on bringing 325 00:17:51,702 --> 00:17:54,661 Speaker 2: kum Alla through. But the other thing I keep thinking 326 00:17:54,702 --> 00:17:57,501 Speaker 2: because Biden and I can't help but feel I know 327 00:17:57,742 --> 00:18:00,661 Speaker 2: how flawed its whole process was, but very sorry for 328 00:18:00,702 --> 00:18:02,942 Speaker 2: them because, as Mia says, they're fighting for his legacy 329 00:18:02,982 --> 00:18:06,022 Speaker 2: now when he does die, not necessarily because of this, 330 00:18:06,141 --> 00:18:09,421 Speaker 2: but he will one day. His whole legacy of life's 331 00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:12,022 Speaker 2: work and public work has been massively tainted. But I 332 00:18:12,022 --> 00:18:14,462 Speaker 2: think there's something else at play, which is it's time 333 00:18:14,542 --> 00:18:19,181 Speaker 2: for the old guard of the Democratic Party to step aside. Right, Clinton's, Obama's, Biden's, 334 00:18:19,222 --> 00:18:21,581 Speaker 2: all of them. They are held up as royalty within 335 00:18:21,621 --> 00:18:24,702 Speaker 2: the party. They have an enormous amount of influence still 336 00:18:24,742 --> 00:18:26,421 Speaker 2: within the party, and they've got to go, and a 337 00:18:26,462 --> 00:18:28,621 Speaker 2: new guard's got to come in. And very often what 338 00:18:28,661 --> 00:18:30,621 Speaker 2: a new guard needs to do to set the tone 339 00:18:30,702 --> 00:18:33,222 Speaker 2: is to set everything on fire. Right, It's kind of 340 00:18:33,262 --> 00:18:35,181 Speaker 2: a little bit similar to what's happening here with the 341 00:18:35,182 --> 00:18:37,982 Speaker 2: Libs at the moment is a lot of the conversations 342 00:18:38,022 --> 00:18:40,621 Speaker 2: around the soul searching that the Liberal Party needs to 343 00:18:40,661 --> 00:18:44,182 Speaker 2: do is decouple from always talking about the golden era 344 00:18:44,302 --> 00:18:48,262 Speaker 2: of Howard and Costello Menzies, God knows what it's got 345 00:18:48,302 --> 00:18:50,302 Speaker 2: to be now and looking forward. And I kind of 346 00:18:50,341 --> 00:18:54,221 Speaker 2: feel like it's almost like part of the process to 347 00:18:54,381 --> 00:18:58,222 Speaker 2: tear down the idols of the past, and Biden through 348 00:18:58,302 --> 00:19:01,821 Speaker 2: all these personal stories is definitely being torn down at 349 00:19:01,861 --> 00:19:02,502 Speaker 2: the moment. 350 00:19:02,462 --> 00:19:05,422 Speaker 3: And what's being lost in that, maybe I think lost 351 00:19:05,462 --> 00:19:08,782 Speaker 3: in a lot of the reporting is any cancer diagnosis 352 00:19:08,861 --> 00:19:11,502 Speaker 3: is really so and really scarin as you say me 353 00:19:11,621 --> 00:19:14,821 Speaker 3: out Jill and Joe Biden lost a son to a 354 00:19:14,861 --> 00:19:19,141 Speaker 3: brain tumor, and I wouldn't wish a cancer diagnosis on 355 00:19:19,702 --> 00:19:23,262 Speaker 3: my worst enemy. So it is really really sad and 356 00:19:23,942 --> 00:19:26,901 Speaker 3: regardless of timing or what they did and didn't say. 357 00:19:26,942 --> 00:19:29,782 Speaker 3: And maybe I come from an Australian sensibility of feeling 358 00:19:29,821 --> 00:19:33,621 Speaker 3: like medical information is private. It's funny thinking like when 359 00:19:33,661 --> 00:19:35,742 Speaker 3: do you need to announce it? When do people deserve 360 00:19:35,821 --> 00:19:38,542 Speaker 3: to know if our prime minister had a cancer diagnosis? 361 00:19:38,542 --> 00:19:40,341 Speaker 3: Do we need to know within ours do we need 362 00:19:40,381 --> 00:19:42,702 Speaker 3: to know within weeks? Like I think it's an interesting 363 00:19:43,101 --> 00:19:45,981 Speaker 3: thing to wrestle with because I'm not sure I'm really 364 00:19:46,101 --> 00:19:49,181 Speaker 3: decided on the answer, but I do see something a 365 00:19:49,182 --> 00:19:52,302 Speaker 3: little bit private about health diagnoses and dealing with it 366 00:19:52,302 --> 00:19:53,022 Speaker 3: in your own time. 367 00:19:53,502 --> 00:19:55,861 Speaker 1: In a moment, we have some breaking genital news. We 368 00:19:56,022 --> 00:19:59,982 Speaker 1: finally have the origin story behind Gwyneth Paltrow's candle called 369 00:19:59,982 --> 00:20:03,821 Speaker 1: this Smells Like My Vagina. 370 00:20:03,942 --> 00:20:07,542 Speaker 5: You know, that product is so fascinating because we were 371 00:20:07,621 --> 00:20:10,741 Speaker 5: messing around with different Sense one day and I smelled 372 00:20:10,742 --> 00:20:14,542 Speaker 5: something and I was like, oh, that smells like you know. 373 00:20:15,621 --> 00:20:18,742 Speaker 2: I was joking, and then he was like. 374 00:20:18,702 --> 00:20:20,421 Speaker 5: Oh, we should make that a candle and put it 375 00:20:20,462 --> 00:20:22,861 Speaker 5: on the site, and I thought he was kidding and 376 00:20:22,901 --> 00:20:25,581 Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, definitely, that's that sounds like a 377 00:20:25,621 --> 00:20:29,421 Speaker 5: winner right there. And then all of a sudden it 378 00:20:29,502 --> 00:20:33,782 Speaker 5: was literally on the website, and then we broke the 379 00:20:33,821 --> 00:20:39,182 Speaker 5: internet again, and then it took us a long time 380 00:20:39,222 --> 00:20:41,781 Speaker 5: to live that one down. But I kept it on 381 00:20:41,821 --> 00:20:46,782 Speaker 5: the site because there is an aspect to women's sexuality 382 00:20:47,381 --> 00:20:50,381 Speaker 5: that I think we're socialized to feel a lot of shame, 383 00:20:50,462 --> 00:20:53,422 Speaker 5: and I sort of loved this kind of punk rock 384 00:20:53,982 --> 00:20:58,061 Speaker 5: idea we are beautiful and we are awesome and go 385 00:20:58,222 --> 00:20:58,942 Speaker 5: fuck yourself. 386 00:21:02,341 --> 00:21:02,542 Speaker 1: Ah. 387 00:21:02,861 --> 00:21:06,861 Speaker 2: That was my friend Gwyneth Paltrow at her best, talking 388 00:21:06,901 --> 00:21:11,262 Speaker 2: at the gloriously named Mind Valley manifesting summits at the 389 00:21:11,302 --> 00:21:15,061 Speaker 2: weekend about how it came to be that a candle 390 00:21:15,141 --> 00:21:18,262 Speaker 2: smelling like her who ha ended up on Goop next 391 00:21:18,302 --> 00:21:20,742 Speaker 2: to hambags that cost twenty three thousand dollars and four 392 00:21:20,821 --> 00:21:25,821 Speaker 2: hundred dollars hair brushes. Very sadly that candle no longer exists, 393 00:21:25,982 --> 00:21:27,821 Speaker 2: and the fact that I will go to my grave 394 00:21:28,022 --> 00:21:30,461 Speaker 2: not knowing what Gwyned's lady parts smell like is a 395 00:21:30,502 --> 00:21:33,901 Speaker 2: source of great sadness to me. Mia was this business genius. 396 00:21:34,141 --> 00:21:37,182 Speaker 1: We'll never say never whole there's still tying it's true. Yeah, 397 00:21:37,182 --> 00:21:40,101 Speaker 1: it was so smart. It was so smart. I mean, 398 00:21:40,581 --> 00:21:44,621 Speaker 1: Gwyneth has been clever in that way that she just 399 00:21:44,702 --> 00:21:48,181 Speaker 1: knows how to poke at the culture and living in 400 00:21:48,222 --> 00:21:51,422 Speaker 1: an attention economy. That was a pretty out there thing 401 00:21:51,462 --> 00:21:53,542 Speaker 1: for her to do, especially since the candle was not 402 00:21:53,621 --> 00:21:56,782 Speaker 1: just called this smells like a vagina. It was called 403 00:21:56,782 --> 00:21:58,662 Speaker 1: this smells like my vagina. 404 00:21:58,742 --> 00:22:00,342 Speaker 3: Do you want to know what notes it had? 405 00:22:00,462 --> 00:22:00,622 Speaker 2: Yes? 406 00:22:00,702 --> 00:22:00,981 Speaker 1: I do. 407 00:22:01,341 --> 00:22:03,302 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe you could go into your garden and we 408 00:22:03,341 --> 00:22:05,741 Speaker 3: couldn't make it. We could have a little crafty. 409 00:22:06,182 --> 00:22:07,542 Speaker 1: So tuna and salmon. 410 00:22:08,381 --> 00:22:10,581 Speaker 3: Stop it, may I think you should go to the doctor. 411 00:22:10,621 --> 00:22:10,981 Speaker 1: Sorry. 412 00:22:11,341 --> 00:22:14,022 Speaker 3: The product had notes of geranium. Is that a flower? 413 00:22:14,341 --> 00:22:14,581 Speaker 1: Yes? 414 00:22:14,702 --> 00:22:14,902 Speaker 2: Yes? 415 00:22:15,141 --> 00:22:25,581 Speaker 3: Okay, citrusy burgher mootte yes, citrus okay, seda absolute cedar okay, 416 00:22:25,621 --> 00:22:29,621 Speaker 3: woody woody. That's not how I describe my vagina, mask 417 00:22:29,982 --> 00:22:32,621 Speaker 3: rose and mask dems. 418 00:22:32,542 --> 00:22:36,742 Speaker 1: Right, Jesse, I said words before. 419 00:22:36,502 --> 00:22:39,502 Speaker 3: No, I haven't and something called ambrit seed. 420 00:22:39,661 --> 00:22:41,661 Speaker 2: Oh nice, No salt. I thought there might be a 421 00:22:41,702 --> 00:22:44,141 Speaker 2: little salt in there that might just be me and 422 00:22:44,182 --> 00:22:44,941 Speaker 2: my salt. 423 00:22:44,942 --> 00:22:49,182 Speaker 4: And have you ever. 424 00:22:49,022 --> 00:22:51,342 Speaker 1: Heard words come out of your mouth that made you wonder? 425 00:22:52,022 --> 00:22:54,661 Speaker 1: Who the hell have I become? Jesse sent a link 426 00:22:54,901 --> 00:22:58,021 Speaker 1: in our group chat around this week to a story 427 00:22:58,061 --> 00:23:00,461 Speaker 1: called I Swore I'd never be that woman, and it 428 00:23:00,542 --> 00:23:04,141 Speaker 1: was by Victoria de la Fuente, and she wrote about 429 00:23:04,141 --> 00:23:06,181 Speaker 1: this exact thing. She said, I used to look at 430 00:23:06,222 --> 00:23:09,821 Speaker 1: couples bickering in grocery stores, Mum's hissing at dad's about 431 00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:12,742 Speaker 1: forgetting the wipes or picking the wrong yogurt, and think 432 00:23:12,782 --> 00:23:15,742 Speaker 1: to myself, God, I never want to become that woman, 433 00:23:16,262 --> 00:23:18,221 Speaker 1: you know, the one, the one with a sharp tone, 434 00:23:18,302 --> 00:23:21,542 Speaker 1: the dead eyes, the sigh that says I've explained this 435 00:23:21,702 --> 00:23:25,022 Speaker 1: four hundred times and you still don't get it. And 436 00:23:25,141 --> 00:23:29,422 Speaker 1: yet here I am, mouth tight, eyes twitching, whisper, screaming 437 00:23:29,462 --> 00:23:32,341 Speaker 1: across the kitchen island. How do you not know where 438 00:23:32,341 --> 00:23:37,581 Speaker 1: the baby's pajamas are? We've lived here for five years? Jesse, 439 00:23:37,702 --> 00:23:39,901 Speaker 1: what comes out of your mouth? Like? Why could you 440 00:23:39,942 --> 00:23:40,542 Speaker 1: relate to this? 441 00:23:41,141 --> 00:23:41,501 Speaker 4: Ah? 442 00:23:41,542 --> 00:23:44,141 Speaker 3: I felt so seen. And I think when we all 443 00:23:44,182 --> 00:23:47,941 Speaker 3: accept that we're gonna all become the woman that we 444 00:23:48,022 --> 00:23:49,262 Speaker 3: swore we would never become. 445 00:23:49,782 --> 00:23:51,182 Speaker 1: Is this just code for our mothers? 446 00:23:51,502 --> 00:23:53,382 Speaker 3: I think it's code for our mothers. Yes, I think 447 00:23:53,381 --> 00:23:55,101 Speaker 3: it is a little bit code for our mothers. But 448 00:23:55,141 --> 00:23:57,222 Speaker 3: I think we've become more generous to other women when 449 00:23:57,262 --> 00:24:00,502 Speaker 3: we accept that we are evolving and a work in progress. 450 00:24:00,901 --> 00:24:03,742 Speaker 3: We in the live shows that we've been doing, there's 451 00:24:03,901 --> 00:24:07,101 Speaker 3: a segment where we talk about the trope of the 452 00:24:07,262 --> 00:24:12,702 Speaker 3: busy working mum, talking about how as a teenager I 453 00:24:12,782 --> 00:24:16,461 Speaker 3: remembered walking to school backpack on to the train station 454 00:24:16,621 --> 00:24:19,462 Speaker 3: and seeing women in like a two piece business suit 455 00:24:19,821 --> 00:24:22,982 Speaker 3: with socks and runners on, and I just thought, how 456 00:24:22,982 --> 00:24:26,581 Speaker 3: could you have such little pride that you would ruin 457 00:24:26,621 --> 00:24:29,662 Speaker 3: an outfit like that and wear your runners with your 458 00:24:30,061 --> 00:24:33,621 Speaker 3: heels in your bag or something. Have you no dignity? 459 00:24:33,742 --> 00:24:36,621 Speaker 3: Where must you be in the judgment that was forming 460 00:24:36,661 --> 00:24:38,341 Speaker 3: in my fourteen year old brain. 461 00:24:38,502 --> 00:24:41,061 Speaker 1: And now here you are flying around the country with 462 00:24:41,141 --> 00:24:42,061 Speaker 1: a cameltoe. 463 00:24:42,182 --> 00:24:44,981 Speaker 3: Exactly how long did it take me to become the 464 00:24:44,982 --> 00:24:48,702 Speaker 3: woman who needs to wear my comfortable shoes wherever I'm 465 00:24:48,742 --> 00:24:51,741 Speaker 3: going because we need arch support and we need, you know, 466 00:24:51,861 --> 00:24:54,302 Speaker 3: to make sure that our ankles are in a good way, 467 00:24:54,782 --> 00:24:58,542 Speaker 3: and wearing heels is never a good idea. I think 468 00:24:58,621 --> 00:25:01,701 Speaker 3: it happened so much throughout our lives. I also, you know, 469 00:25:01,702 --> 00:25:05,621 Speaker 3: I remember being younger and leaving the house was like, 470 00:25:05,782 --> 00:25:07,502 Speaker 3: you know, you'd do your hair a bit and you'd 471 00:25:07,542 --> 00:25:10,181 Speaker 3: put on a bit of makeup. Since become a a mom, 472 00:25:11,341 --> 00:25:17,302 Speaker 3: my threshold for leaving the house is, oh my god. 473 00:25:17,381 --> 00:25:19,262 Speaker 3: The out louders who see me in public must wonder 474 00:25:19,302 --> 00:25:22,502 Speaker 3: if I'm doing okay. It's dirty clothes. It's often it'll 475 00:25:22,502 --> 00:25:24,101 Speaker 3: get to four pm and I'll think I haven't looked 476 00:25:24,101 --> 00:25:26,701 Speaker 3: in the mirror today, Like I don't know if I 477 00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:29,102 Speaker 3: have food on my face. I have no idea who 478 00:25:29,101 --> 00:25:31,061 Speaker 3: would be staring back at me. I swore I would 479 00:25:31,061 --> 00:25:33,942 Speaker 3: not become the woman who had no pride in my appearance. 480 00:25:33,942 --> 00:25:37,181 Speaker 3: But it has happened very very quickly. How about you, Holly? 481 00:25:37,502 --> 00:25:39,461 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yes, I was thinking about this. And 482 00:25:39,502 --> 00:25:42,381 Speaker 2: when I was young, young, like late teens, early twenties, 483 00:25:42,422 --> 00:25:45,782 Speaker 2: I was so judgmental when I think about it now. Well, 484 00:25:45,782 --> 00:25:47,821 Speaker 2: for a start, I was very unhealthy. So I remember 485 00:25:47,901 --> 00:25:49,941 Speaker 2: being about twenty, and I swore I would never be 486 00:25:49,982 --> 00:25:53,022 Speaker 2: a person who gave up smoking because I really liked 487 00:25:53,061 --> 00:25:57,262 Speaker 2: and valued people who prioritize pleasure overboring things like health. Yep, yeah, 488 00:25:57,302 --> 00:26:01,702 Speaker 2: that's something that doesn't last very long in relationships. I 489 00:26:01,782 --> 00:26:03,861 Speaker 2: swore I would never be a woman who'd say no 490 00:26:04,061 --> 00:26:06,262 Speaker 2: to morning sex because I was worried about being late 491 00:26:06,302 --> 00:26:08,941 Speaker 2: for work. Oh like, can you imagine I used to 492 00:26:08,982 --> 00:26:11,861 Speaker 2: be like a mud saying no because I've got a meeting. 493 00:26:12,742 --> 00:26:15,061 Speaker 3: You imagine Holly coming late to a morning meeting and 494 00:26:15,061 --> 00:26:17,542 Speaker 3: we're like, Holly, what have you been doing? What my 495 00:26:17,581 --> 00:26:18,141 Speaker 3: morning sets? 496 00:26:18,621 --> 00:26:20,542 Speaker 2: And I used to say I would never be the 497 00:26:20,661 --> 00:26:22,861 Speaker 2: kind of person who would get up and brush their 498 00:26:22,901 --> 00:26:25,221 Speaker 2: teeth before kissing the person in bed with them. I 499 00:26:25,341 --> 00:26:29,381 Speaker 2: used to be so judgmental about that. I'm like, you 500 00:26:29,422 --> 00:26:32,542 Speaker 2: should be so into each other and passionate and accepting 501 00:26:32,581 --> 00:26:35,142 Speaker 2: of all of yourselves. Like I was so judgmental about 502 00:26:35,182 --> 00:26:37,381 Speaker 2: those kind of things, and I definitely said I'd never 503 00:26:37,422 --> 00:26:41,101 Speaker 2: be a gardener, a morning exerciser, a bed before midnight person, 504 00:26:41,341 --> 00:26:43,942 Speaker 2: like just all the things that, of course I am, 505 00:26:44,022 --> 00:26:46,502 Speaker 2: because you evolve and you were an idiot when you 506 00:26:46,542 --> 00:26:47,742 Speaker 2: were young. Let's be honest. 507 00:26:47,742 --> 00:26:49,942 Speaker 1: Well it's interesting. I mean they say that you get 508 00:26:49,982 --> 00:26:53,061 Speaker 1: more conservative as you get older and the things that 509 00:26:53,141 --> 00:26:57,181 Speaker 1: horrify me. So to me, it's not necessarily being like 510 00:26:57,262 --> 00:27:00,901 Speaker 1: my mother, but it's just becoming older, like an older woman. 511 00:27:01,022 --> 00:27:03,821 Speaker 1: Like when I used to be rushing my kids and 512 00:27:03,821 --> 00:27:06,902 Speaker 1: I'd say, quick sticks, quick. 513 00:27:06,702 --> 00:27:08,061 Speaker 2: Sticks, what the fuck? 514 00:27:08,702 --> 00:27:13,341 Speaker 1: And things like I'll be driving and I'll see schoolgirls 515 00:27:13,422 --> 00:27:15,181 Speaker 1: and I'll be like, oh that skirts too short? 516 00:27:15,542 --> 00:27:19,901 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I reckon that parenting is an exercise in 517 00:27:20,341 --> 00:27:23,102 Speaker 3: becoming the woman you swore you never would, or becoming 518 00:27:23,101 --> 00:27:24,502 Speaker 3: the mother you swore you never would. 519 00:27:24,861 --> 00:27:26,381 Speaker 1: I just think it's getting older, Jesse. 520 00:27:26,901 --> 00:27:29,061 Speaker 2: I mean, it's even just mothering. 521 00:27:28,742 --> 00:27:31,101 Speaker 3: Because no, no, no, it's not just mothering, that there 522 00:27:31,141 --> 00:27:34,661 Speaker 3: is something that happens, because I think you can be idealistic. 523 00:27:34,702 --> 00:27:37,141 Speaker 3: You are so naive in your early stages, and I 524 00:27:37,141 --> 00:27:39,901 Speaker 3: remember I would look around before I had lunar and think, 525 00:27:39,942 --> 00:27:42,581 Speaker 3: I will never be the mother who brings her child 526 00:27:42,621 --> 00:27:45,782 Speaker 3: out covered in snot food, all over the face into 527 00:27:45,782 --> 00:27:48,901 Speaker 3: tu tu Like, don't you realize that your child looks unhinged? 528 00:27:49,262 --> 00:27:53,341 Speaker 3: And now I'm like, honestly, maybe your threshold for giving 529 00:27:53,422 --> 00:27:55,422 Speaker 3: a shit what people think about you just gets lower 530 00:27:55,502 --> 00:27:58,581 Speaker 3: and lower until you, yeah, you just have no standards. 531 00:27:58,782 --> 00:28:01,542 Speaker 1: Well, that's true because as your estrogen drops. Estrogen is 532 00:28:01,542 --> 00:28:05,661 Speaker 1: the approval hormone, so you do care less what people think. 533 00:28:05,742 --> 00:28:09,861 Speaker 1: But then at the same time, I'm more judgment like 534 00:28:09,861 --> 00:28:12,261 Speaker 1: I care that's what people think about me, but I 535 00:28:12,341 --> 00:28:15,542 Speaker 1: care more about other people and what they're doing. 536 00:28:16,861 --> 00:28:19,701 Speaker 2: I think it's just as your reality shifts, like you know, 537 00:28:19,821 --> 00:28:22,262 Speaker 2: of course you could have those opinions about moms with 538 00:28:22,341 --> 00:28:24,461 Speaker 2: their two tuos, and that's not when that wasn't your world, 539 00:28:24,821 --> 00:28:27,981 Speaker 2: but that is your world, and suddenly you understand you know, yeah, 540 00:28:28,061 --> 00:28:30,342 Speaker 2: I certainly thought I would never be kind of sellout 541 00:28:30,381 --> 00:28:33,621 Speaker 2: who promoted themselves on the internet. Oh that's all I do. 542 00:28:33,861 --> 00:28:37,222 Speaker 2: I never thought i'd get botox. Remember that I know 543 00:28:37,381 --> 00:28:40,702 Speaker 2: we change. Let's celebrate changing and growing friends. 544 00:28:40,902 --> 00:28:43,862 Speaker 3: The out louders had some examples of the woman they 545 00:28:43,902 --> 00:28:46,142 Speaker 3: swore they'd never become. One said, I swore I would 546 00:28:46,142 --> 00:28:48,741 Speaker 3: never be a kitchen gadget girl. But me and my 547 00:28:48,822 --> 00:28:51,661 Speaker 3: air fryer are in a committed relationship. That's me and 548 00:28:51,742 --> 00:28:54,822 Speaker 3: my thermo mix. I swore I would never get obsessed 549 00:28:54,942 --> 00:28:57,342 Speaker 3: with cooking, but you do. I swore I would never 550 00:28:57,382 --> 00:28:59,742 Speaker 3: wear tracksuit pants or ug boots outside my own home. 551 00:28:59,902 --> 00:29:00,302 Speaker 1: Oh love. 552 00:29:00,542 --> 00:29:02,742 Speaker 3: I swore I'd never be the woman who complained about 553 00:29:02,742 --> 00:29:05,062 Speaker 3: her kids or husband. Why would you swear that? I 554 00:29:05,102 --> 00:29:07,862 Speaker 3: swore i'd never look through my partner's texts, and I do. 555 00:29:08,462 --> 00:29:10,181 Speaker 3: And the last one. I swore I'd never swear in 556 00:29:10,222 --> 00:29:12,181 Speaker 3: front of my kids. But my Toddley uses fuck in 557 00:29:12,222 --> 00:29:14,022 Speaker 3: the right context. So I don't know whether to be 558 00:29:14,062 --> 00:29:14,701 Speaker 3: mortified or. 559 00:29:14,702 --> 00:29:18,982 Speaker 2: Proud proud after the break, Tom and Nicole, Tom and Caty, 560 00:29:19,222 --> 00:29:22,342 Speaker 2: Tom and Us. Why is the biggest movie star in 561 00:29:22,382 --> 00:29:24,582 Speaker 2: the world completely uncancellable? 562 00:29:25,102 --> 00:29:27,862 Speaker 1: Do you want daily Outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We 563 00:29:27,982 --> 00:29:32,302 Speaker 1: dropped episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, exclusively from Mum of MEA. 564 00:29:32,342 --> 00:29:34,822 Speaker 1: Subscribers follow the link in the show notes to get 565 00:29:34,902 --> 00:29:37,222 Speaker 1: us in your ears five days a week, and a 566 00:29:37,302 --> 00:29:39,622 Speaker 1: huge thank you if you're already a subscriber. 567 00:29:45,222 --> 00:29:48,421 Speaker 2: Last week, despite all I know about celebrity news and 568 00:29:48,502 --> 00:29:51,862 Speaker 2: media and clickbait, I almost broke my thumb clicking on 569 00:29:51,942 --> 00:29:55,822 Speaker 2: a story that declared Tom Cruise makes rare comments about 570 00:29:55,902 --> 00:29:58,661 Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman and I wasn't the only one, because that 571 00:29:58,742 --> 00:30:01,862 Speaker 2: story appeared in about a million places, And yet when 572 00:30:01,942 --> 00:30:05,582 Speaker 2: you clicked surprise, surprise, Cruise had said next to nothing. 573 00:30:05,702 --> 00:30:08,421 Speaker 2: He'd made a very oblique reference about the time he 574 00:30:08,462 --> 00:30:11,862 Speaker 2: and Kidman were in London filming Eyes Wide Shut, and 575 00:30:11,902 --> 00:30:15,022 Speaker 2: that was enough for the breathless headlines to travel around 576 00:30:15,022 --> 00:30:18,862 Speaker 2: the world. Because the whole Tom Nicole love story and 577 00:30:18,982 --> 00:30:23,502 Speaker 2: divorce story is still almost thirty years on one of 578 00:30:23,542 --> 00:30:27,461 Speaker 2: the enduring obsessions of gen X pop culture. It's also 579 00:30:27,622 --> 00:30:30,661 Speaker 2: twenty years this week since Tom Cruise jumped on a 580 00:30:30,702 --> 00:30:34,382 Speaker 2: couch on the Oprah Winfrey Show to profess his love 581 00:30:34,822 --> 00:30:38,582 Speaker 2: for his next wife, Katie Holmes, and then their wedding, 582 00:30:38,622 --> 00:30:42,982 Speaker 2: their baby. Their divorce story is another complete obsession. None 583 00:30:42,982 --> 00:30:45,862 Speaker 2: of the scandal attached to those stories, or his very 584 00:30:45,862 --> 00:30:49,941 Speaker 2: controversial religious affiliation with scientology, or the fact that he 585 00:30:49,982 --> 00:30:52,862 Speaker 2: can be narki, shall we say, with journalists who don't 586 00:30:52,862 --> 00:30:56,501 Speaker 2: follow his script have dented his appeal at the box office. 587 00:30:56,502 --> 00:31:00,221 Speaker 2: This week, Cruz opened probably the last massive movie of 588 00:31:00,222 --> 00:31:02,502 Speaker 2: his career, maybe one of the last massive movies in 589 00:31:02,542 --> 00:31:05,941 Speaker 2: a way, the final installment of Mission Impossible, and with 590 00:31:06,062 --> 00:31:08,862 Speaker 2: his trademark commitment, he's selling the shit out of it. 591 00:31:08,942 --> 00:31:12,422 Speaker 2: He is every screen you look at. He's being charming 592 00:31:12,462 --> 00:31:16,262 Speaker 2: in every format. He's everywhere. He's jumping on a plane, 593 00:31:16,302 --> 00:31:19,181 Speaker 2: he's jumping on a train, He's waving to all the journos. 594 00:31:19,742 --> 00:31:22,862 Speaker 2: He is the last great movie star getting bums on seats. 595 00:31:23,182 --> 00:31:26,582 Speaker 2: What is it with our obsession of Tom Cruise and 596 00:31:26,661 --> 00:31:29,941 Speaker 2: why despite all the scandals that have followed him, does 597 00:31:30,022 --> 00:31:32,142 Speaker 2: he appear to be teflon Mia. 598 00:31:32,302 --> 00:31:35,222 Speaker 1: Well, many people say he's the last great movie star 599 00:31:35,382 --> 00:31:40,582 Speaker 1: and he's the only thing that's saving Hollywood because he's 600 00:31:40,702 --> 00:31:46,142 Speaker 1: so passionate about movies and about getting people out to 601 00:31:46,302 --> 00:31:51,382 Speaker 1: movies and supporting the industry and making sure that the 602 00:31:51,462 --> 00:31:54,462 Speaker 1: craft of movie making is not lost in this digital era. 603 00:31:55,222 --> 00:31:58,022 Speaker 1: Even the people that he's really pissed off, like Steven Spielberg, 604 00:31:58,062 --> 00:32:00,822 Speaker 1: who he worked with in War of the Worlds, and 605 00:32:00,822 --> 00:32:03,981 Speaker 1: that was the press tool where he imploded and he 606 00:32:04,302 --> 00:32:10,702 Speaker 1: attacked Brookshields for having medication, for having postnatored depression. He 607 00:32:10,862 --> 00:32:14,062 Speaker 1: attacked Matt Lauer, he jumped on couches, He just started 608 00:32:14,062 --> 00:32:17,782 Speaker 1: proselytizing about scientology, and he became sort of came across 609 00:32:17,822 --> 00:32:20,262 Speaker 1: as quite unhinged, and apparently on the set of War 610 00:32:20,302 --> 00:32:22,542 Speaker 1: of the World he insists on having a scientology tent, 611 00:32:22,661 --> 00:32:25,342 Speaker 1: and he was really difficult on the set, and basically 612 00:32:25,422 --> 00:32:30,421 Speaker 1: his whole scientology jag in that press tour really tanked 613 00:32:30,462 --> 00:32:33,622 Speaker 1: the movie. So Steven Spielberg apparently hasn't really spoken to 614 00:32:33,702 --> 00:32:36,461 Speaker 1: him for the last twenty years. But when he bumped 615 00:32:36,462 --> 00:32:40,142 Speaker 1: into him in some awards ceremony things last year, he 616 00:32:40,182 --> 00:32:43,902 Speaker 1: reportedly said, you've saved us. You know, you've saved the movies. 617 00:32:43,942 --> 00:32:49,981 Speaker 1: Like grudgingly, perhaps, but everyone acknowledges that even amongst young people, 618 00:32:50,262 --> 00:32:53,182 Speaker 1: this guy who's in his sixties who insists on doing 619 00:32:53,222 --> 00:32:56,102 Speaker 1: all of his own stunts is still this sort of 620 00:32:56,422 --> 00:32:57,342 Speaker 1: icon of Hollywood. 621 00:32:57,742 --> 00:33:00,702 Speaker 3: There are a few things about Tom Cruise. The first 622 00:33:00,982 --> 00:33:06,982 Speaker 3: is that he is an outstanding actor. He is brilliant. 623 00:33:07,262 --> 00:33:10,902 Speaker 1: He's great at being Tom Cruise, isn't he Well yeah. 624 00:33:10,742 --> 00:33:14,022 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I also think more of the world's Vanilla Sky, 625 00:33:14,382 --> 00:33:17,302 Speaker 3: Like there are these movies that you watch and he 626 00:33:18,062 --> 00:33:21,702 Speaker 3: is so arresting and mesmerizing as an actor. So he's 627 00:33:21,702 --> 00:33:24,421 Speaker 3: brilliant at what he does. That's the first thing. The 628 00:33:24,502 --> 00:33:26,902 Speaker 3: second thing is that he has had run ins with journalists. 629 00:33:26,942 --> 00:33:29,502 Speaker 3: That's a really good point, Holly. But some friends that 630 00:33:29,542 --> 00:33:31,781 Speaker 3: I have in media, I often ask them, friends who 631 00:33:31,902 --> 00:33:33,862 Speaker 3: interview a lot of celebrities, and I say, who's the 632 00:33:33,862 --> 00:33:37,302 Speaker 3: most likable, best celebrity interview you've ever done? And so 633 00:33:37,422 --> 00:33:39,142 Speaker 3: many of them say, Tom Cruise. 634 00:33:39,222 --> 00:33:42,462 Speaker 2: He understands the job right, he understands what's required. 635 00:33:42,502 --> 00:33:46,742 Speaker 3: He is ridiculously charismatic and friendly, and he can turn 636 00:33:46,782 --> 00:33:50,742 Speaker 3: it on. I also wonder if Scientology it being powerful. 637 00:33:50,782 --> 00:33:53,782 Speaker 3: I suppose it's been subject to a lot of criticism, 638 00:33:53,902 --> 00:33:57,542 Speaker 3: but as an organization, it is worth an estimated two 639 00:33:57,582 --> 00:34:00,542 Speaker 3: billion dollars, right, It's incredibly wealthy and it has a 640 00:34:00,582 --> 00:34:04,582 Speaker 3: lot of resources, and I think that that has helped 641 00:34:05,102 --> 00:34:10,062 Speaker 3: in either covering up a few things that happened in 642 00:34:10,142 --> 00:34:14,982 Speaker 3: Tom Cruise's past, because the fact he hasn't been canceled, 643 00:34:15,222 --> 00:34:18,302 Speaker 3: like the Brookshields comment sucked. That wasn't a good comment. 644 00:34:18,342 --> 00:34:20,062 Speaker 3: He did apologize for it to Brookshields. 645 00:34:20,142 --> 00:34:22,221 Speaker 2: She says it was part of a whole thing that 646 00:34:22,221 --> 00:34:24,261 Speaker 2: he had going on at the time. Toma's point about 647 00:34:24,261 --> 00:34:26,782 Speaker 2: this era when he was just all the time, instead 648 00:34:26,781 --> 00:34:29,341 Speaker 2: of talking about the movies, he was telling everyone how 649 00:34:29,422 --> 00:34:31,821 Speaker 2: to live their lives. Medication was bad. The only people 650 00:34:31,862 --> 00:34:34,542 Speaker 2: who could save anyone in a disaster, with scientologists at 651 00:34:34,582 --> 00:34:37,982 Speaker 2: a certain level, you know, psychiatrists are evil, all of 652 00:34:38,022 --> 00:34:41,341 Speaker 2: this stuff. I feel like he went through that and 653 00:34:41,382 --> 00:34:43,781 Speaker 2: he learned his lesson to shut the fuck up. 654 00:34:44,022 --> 00:34:48,622 Speaker 3: I wonder too, if the public has been able to 655 00:34:48,701 --> 00:34:52,062 Speaker 3: see scientology as something distinct from Tom Cruise. And by 656 00:34:52,102 --> 00:34:54,542 Speaker 3: that I mean I think there's a bit of feeling 657 00:34:54,622 --> 00:34:56,982 Speaker 3: sorry for him. I reckon that there's a sense that 658 00:34:57,062 --> 00:35:00,982 Speaker 3: scientology got its clause into Tom Cruise. He's now become 659 00:35:01,062 --> 00:35:04,301 Speaker 3: this poster boy he can't really leave. We know that 660 00:35:04,462 --> 00:35:07,022 Speaker 3: he doesn't really have a relationship with the child that 661 00:35:07,062 --> 00:35:10,542 Speaker 3: he had with Katie Holmes, So I wonder if that way, 662 00:35:10,661 --> 00:35:13,221 Speaker 3: it's like we don't see him as much as like 663 00:35:13,302 --> 00:35:15,462 Speaker 3: sort of a perpetrator, but more as a victim. Do 664 00:35:15,502 --> 00:35:16,382 Speaker 3: you think that's fair? 665 00:35:16,781 --> 00:35:19,221 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I don't think of him as a 666 00:35:19,302 --> 00:35:21,941 Speaker 2: victim at all. I really don't. I see him as 667 00:35:22,142 --> 00:35:26,782 Speaker 2: a king of the world type always what I wonder, 668 00:35:27,302 --> 00:35:29,741 Speaker 2: because I don't know if women love Tom Cruise, we 669 00:35:29,741 --> 00:35:31,662 Speaker 2: should prosecute this a bit because one of the reasons 670 00:35:31,701 --> 00:35:34,582 Speaker 2: why he can open movies massively is the appeal is 671 00:35:35,022 --> 00:35:37,781 Speaker 2: everybody right, it's mass it's men, it's women, it's girls, 672 00:35:37,822 --> 00:35:40,142 Speaker 2: it's but like you look at something like Top Grund, 673 00:35:40,181 --> 00:35:43,462 Speaker 2: Maverick or Mission Impossible. These are huge movies that are 674 00:35:43,542 --> 00:35:45,941 Speaker 2: just stuff that people like, you know what I mean. 675 00:35:45,982 --> 00:35:49,741 Speaker 2: He goes hard on populism. He's stopped telling everyone how 676 00:35:49,781 --> 00:35:53,102 Speaker 2: to live their lives. But women. When you think about 677 00:35:53,181 --> 00:35:57,022 Speaker 2: his history, it's definitely ickworthy. Right. There was the silent 678 00:35:57,102 --> 00:35:59,821 Speaker 2: birth with Katie Holmes, to remember that they were very 679 00:35:59,822 --> 00:36:01,982 Speaker 2: open about that at the time she spoke about it. 680 00:36:02,382 --> 00:36:04,622 Speaker 2: There was the divorce from Kidman, where she very much 681 00:36:04,661 --> 00:36:06,781 Speaker 2: appears to have been muzzled, which is why we'll never 682 00:36:06,822 --> 00:36:10,622 Speaker 2: really know. There's the questionable relationship with his children. There's 683 00:36:10,661 --> 00:36:13,022 Speaker 2: the Brookshields post aatal depressions, in a thing. These are 684 00:36:13,062 --> 00:36:16,901 Speaker 2: things that generally women will get an ick from, even 685 00:36:16,902 --> 00:36:19,381 Speaker 2: if they don't think you're like an abuser or a perpetrator, 686 00:36:19,462 --> 00:36:22,982 Speaker 2: they'll be like, not my guy. But he seems to 687 00:36:23,102 --> 00:36:25,221 Speaker 2: be able to ride that out. Do you have a 688 00:36:25,342 --> 00:36:26,342 Speaker 2: theory on it, Mia. 689 00:36:26,701 --> 00:36:29,781 Speaker 1: I don't. What he is is very well controlled. He 690 00:36:29,902 --> 00:36:32,342 Speaker 1: doesn't play the game in the same way that a 691 00:36:32,422 --> 00:36:35,221 Speaker 1: lot of celebrities do. Like the fact that no one 692 00:36:35,942 --> 00:36:40,821 Speaker 1: has really asked about Suri Cruz and his relationship with 693 00:36:40,982 --> 00:36:43,542 Speaker 1: the child he was so obsessed with. He hired an 694 00:36:43,661 --> 00:36:45,981 Speaker 1: ultrasound He bought an ultrasound machine so that when Katie 695 00:36:45,982 --> 00:36:48,701 Speaker 1: Holmes was pregnant he could look at Suri twenty four 696 00:36:48,741 --> 00:36:51,701 Speaker 1: seven if he wanted to. He's never asked about that 697 00:36:51,902 --> 00:36:54,181 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It's like that there's a generation of 698 00:36:54,221 --> 00:36:58,661 Speaker 1: celebrities like Nicole Kidman ironically, who is called mother by 699 00:36:59,062 --> 00:37:01,781 Speaker 1: jen Z, who they just think she's iconic, and they 700 00:37:01,862 --> 00:37:04,542 Speaker 1: sort of don't hold them to the same I guess 701 00:37:04,701 --> 00:37:10,302 Speaker 1: woke or accountability standards as younger celebrities like maybe Timothy 702 00:37:10,342 --> 00:37:15,142 Speaker 1: Schallamet or Zendaya or you know, Jenna Otaga, And I 703 00:37:15,221 --> 00:37:17,502 Speaker 1: think that's kind of it like Tom Cruise is almost 704 00:37:17,622 --> 00:37:20,221 Speaker 1: like he's so cute, you know what I mean, Like 705 00:37:20,261 --> 00:37:22,502 Speaker 1: they almost think of him as cute, like a granddad. 706 00:37:22,982 --> 00:37:27,701 Speaker 3: Controlled is an interesting descriptor because Scientology, which is just 707 00:37:28,142 --> 00:37:32,422 Speaker 3: I think he's marriage to Katie Holmes or Nicole Kidman 708 00:37:32,502 --> 00:37:35,661 Speaker 3: or whoever it was. David Misscavige was his best man, 709 00:37:35,701 --> 00:37:39,221 Speaker 3: and David Misscavage is basically the head of Scientology. Now, 710 00:37:39,382 --> 00:37:43,741 Speaker 3: David's wife, Shelley has gone missing decades ago, has just 711 00:37:43,902 --> 00:37:47,301 Speaker 3: gone missing, and people in the scientology community say there 712 00:37:47,302 --> 00:37:51,142 Speaker 3: are allegations that she was killed, or that she's in hiding, 713 00:37:51,542 --> 00:37:54,622 Speaker 3: or that she's locked up, like lots and lots of conspiracy. 714 00:37:55,142 --> 00:37:58,741 Speaker 3: But there is something really unknowable about what happened there. 715 00:37:58,902 --> 00:38:01,781 Speaker 3: And I've watched a bunch of documentaries and stuff on 716 00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:04,502 Speaker 3: Scientology because I find it endlessly fascinating. But part of 717 00:38:04,582 --> 00:38:08,462 Speaker 3: what they do in their process is you sit there 718 00:38:08,942 --> 00:38:10,821 Speaker 3: and then there are allegations that, you know, you talk 719 00:38:10,862 --> 00:38:12,781 Speaker 3: about the worst things that you've ever done, which makes 720 00:38:12,822 --> 00:38:17,781 Speaker 3: you very vulnerable to leaving when public perception and your 721 00:38:17,862 --> 00:38:20,382 Speaker 3: image is so important to your career. 722 00:38:20,781 --> 00:38:23,982 Speaker 1: But he's all in on Scientology, like he's essentially the 723 00:38:24,181 --> 00:38:27,862 Speaker 1: two ice to David MSUs Cabbage. Here's scientology royalty, and 724 00:38:27,982 --> 00:38:30,261 Speaker 1: so are his two children, his first two children with 725 00:38:30,422 --> 00:38:33,741 Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, who she hasn't seen for many many years 726 00:38:33,902 --> 00:38:38,582 Speaker 1: reportedly and is estranged from because they've you know, sided 727 00:38:38,622 --> 00:38:42,142 Speaker 1: with Tom in that custody dispute when you know she 728 00:38:42,342 --> 00:38:44,221 Speaker 1: decided that she didn't want to be part of the church, 729 00:38:44,622 --> 00:38:47,862 Speaker 1: same with Katie Holmes. So I don't think he's trapped. 730 00:38:48,102 --> 00:38:50,542 Speaker 1: I think that he's all in. 731 00:38:50,982 --> 00:38:52,862 Speaker 2: I think you hit the nail on the head the 732 00:38:53,062 --> 00:38:56,382 Speaker 2: Miya when you said he's held to a different standard, 733 00:38:56,661 --> 00:38:59,262 Speaker 2: whether it's because of his generation or whether it's because 734 00:38:59,422 --> 00:39:02,221 Speaker 2: of his success, his phenomenal success and the kind of 735 00:39:02,261 --> 00:39:04,542 Speaker 2: movies he makes. Now we talk about all the time 736 00:39:04,622 --> 00:39:07,462 Speaker 2: on the show How on TikTok, a female celebrity just 737 00:39:07,542 --> 00:39:10,781 Speaker 2: has to look sideways funny at somebody and she's a 738 00:39:10,862 --> 00:39:13,462 Speaker 2: terrible person, you know, like, oh, we can see who 739 00:39:13,542 --> 00:39:15,661 Speaker 2: you really are. You must be a bad person. We 740 00:39:15,701 --> 00:39:17,382 Speaker 2: don't know if we want to see your movies anymore. 741 00:39:18,142 --> 00:39:23,382 Speaker 2: Whereas Tom Cruise has done some literally deeply questionable things 742 00:39:23,542 --> 00:39:25,941 Speaker 2: and admitted them and spoken openly about them. But it's 743 00:39:26,022 --> 00:39:28,381 Speaker 2: like crazy old dude, bit of a grandpa, but he's 744 00:39:28,542 --> 00:39:31,942 Speaker 2: very entertaining because he stopped making those serious movies that 745 00:39:31,982 --> 00:39:34,902 Speaker 2: he made for a while ages ago and just played 746 00:39:34,982 --> 00:39:39,022 Speaker 2: to his strength. Then he's nailing it. That's all we've 747 00:39:39,062 --> 00:39:41,901 Speaker 2: got time for today. A massive thank you to all 748 00:39:41,982 --> 00:39:44,221 Speaker 2: of you out louders for listening to today's show and 749 00:39:44,302 --> 00:39:47,702 Speaker 2: to our fabulous team for putting it together. Melbourne out Louders, 750 00:39:47,781 --> 00:39:49,982 Speaker 2: we will see you tomorrow and we will be back 751 00:39:49,982 --> 00:39:51,142 Speaker 2: in your ears tomorrow too. 752 00:39:51,502 --> 00:39:56,582 Speaker 3: Bye bye, out Louders. We have a quick exciting announcement. 753 00:39:56,701 --> 00:39:59,941 Speaker 3: Mom Mayer out Loud is celebrating a major milestone this year, 754 00:40:00,221 --> 00:40:04,462 Speaker 3: ten years as Australia's number one women's podcast, and right now, 755 00:40:04,582 --> 00:40:06,142 Speaker 3: as a bit of a gift to you all, we're 756 00:40:06,221 --> 00:40:09,942 Speaker 3: taking thirty percent off yearly. Mumma mea subscription with the 757 00:40:10,022 --> 00:40:14,142 Speaker 3: discount code ten years ten as in the numbers one 758 00:40:14,342 --> 00:40:17,062 Speaker 3: oh years. This gives you full access to all the 759 00:40:17,142 --> 00:40:20,381 Speaker 3: stories and shows that you love from us, including our 760 00:40:20,422 --> 00:40:25,462 Speaker 3: episode yesterday where we unpacked. Whether subscribing to OnlyFans is 761 00:40:25,741 --> 00:40:28,462 Speaker 3: considered cheating, we had lots of thoughts on that one. 762 00:40:29,062 --> 00:40:32,701 Speaker 3: Plus subscribing also means that you get unlimited access to 763 00:40:32,822 --> 00:40:37,341 Speaker 3: our exercise app Moves. This offer is for limited time only, 764 00:40:37,502 --> 00:40:39,221 Speaker 3: so head to the link in our show notes for 765 00:40:39,382 --> 00:40:40,662 Speaker 3: all the details asap. 766 00:40:41,661 --> 00:40:44,502 Speaker 2: Shout out to Emmie Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you 767 00:40:44,701 --> 00:40:47,542 Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing 768 00:40:47,582 --> 00:40:49,902 Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it. 769 00:40:50,221 --> 00:40:52,062 Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.