WEBVTT - Dealing With TAPS: One Of The Rarest Twin Complications Ever 0:00:21.773 --> 0:00:24.493 You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast. 0:00:25.212 --> 0:00:28.413 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:28.453 --> 0:00:31.452 that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects 0:00:31.533 --> 0:00:35.092 to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to 0:00:35.132 --> 0:00:38.253 continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has 0:00:38.293 --> 0:00:47.013 been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture. Hi. 0:00:47.173 --> 0:00:50.693 I'm Cassanya Lukich and this is diary of a birth. 0:00:51.333 --> 0:00:54.613 When Marnie Cochrane fell pregnant through IVF at forty two, 0:00:55.213 --> 0:00:57.813 she thought the hardest part of her fertility journey was 0:00:57.893 --> 0:01:01.013 behind her. But she was in for a big surprise. 0:01:01.813 --> 0:01:07.173 Her single embryo transfer turned into identical twin girls. Then 0:01:07.333 --> 0:01:11.053 a routine scan at twenty two weeks revealed a complication 0:01:11.333 --> 0:01:12.973 that would change everything. 0:01:13.693 --> 0:01:16.813 Everything had been fine prior with the scans in between 0:01:16.853 --> 0:01:19.572 thirteen and twenty two weeks. And when I walked in 0:01:19.613 --> 0:01:21.973 that day to the hospital, you know that were scanning 0:01:21.973 --> 0:01:24.693 me and everything seemed normal. At the end of the scan, 0:01:24.773 --> 0:01:26.253 they said, oh, look, we're just going to bring in 0:01:26.252 --> 0:01:28.973 a doctor, and you know, we waited for what seemed 0:01:29.053 --> 0:01:29.693 like forever. 0:01:31.133 --> 0:01:35.533 In today's episode, Marnei shares her extraordinary story of navigating 0:01:35.573 --> 0:01:40.372 one of the rarest twin complications taps, where one twin 0:01:40.532 --> 0:01:44.893 becomes dangerously anemic while the other develops too many red 0:01:44.893 --> 0:01:45.532 blood cells. 0:01:46.092 --> 0:01:47.653 So let's meet today's marm. 0:01:48.252 --> 0:01:50.653 My name's Many and this is the diary of my 0:01:50.773 --> 0:01:56.853 birth with my twins, Billy and Poppy. 0:01:56.933 --> 0:02:00.253 You know, your journey to getting pregnant obviously took a 0:02:00.293 --> 0:02:03.213 little bit of time. But what was your life like 0:02:03.333 --> 0:02:05.773 before you fell pregnant with the twins. 0:02:06.093 --> 0:02:08.733 I have been with my husband for a really long time, 0:02:09.093 --> 0:02:14.133 so we had been together, I think for about six 0:02:14.252 --> 0:02:17.972 years before we settled on the Gold Coast and bought 0:02:18.013 --> 0:02:21.213 our first townhouse together, and we had plan to get 0:02:21.252 --> 0:02:22.693 pregnant pretty soon. 0:02:23.333 --> 0:02:25.733 And yeah, it. 0:02:25.693 --> 0:02:29.333 Took obviously many years, but in that time, I guess 0:02:29.333 --> 0:02:31.093 we just spent a lot of time together. 0:02:31.333 --> 0:02:32.412 He's fantastic. 0:02:33.173 --> 0:02:39.293 We have adopted five birds, and we eventually upgraded to 0:02:39.333 --> 0:02:42.413 a bigger house on the Gold Coast. We hoped for 0:02:42.532 --> 0:02:46.852 a child and for the birds as well, so somewhere 0:02:46.893 --> 0:02:49.053 a little bit bigger that would house the birds and 0:02:49.213 --> 0:02:50.893 us and hopefully a child. 0:02:51.292 --> 0:02:55.093 Yeah, when you got pregnant, you went through IVF. They 0:02:55.173 --> 0:02:59.412 just put one embryo in and lo and behold. 0:03:00.773 --> 0:03:04.493 Yes, Well we didn't actually find that out until about 0:03:04.532 --> 0:03:09.373 thirteen weeks. So the IVF journey I was so nervous 0:03:09.493 --> 0:03:13.493 about that. I really was quite reluctant to do it. 0:03:13.532 --> 0:03:16.453 But we needed it obviously as I got older. But 0:03:16.653 --> 0:03:18.733 we had a bit of a triple whammy. So my 0:03:18.893 --> 0:03:23.173 age was against me. I had suspected endo and also 0:03:23.852 --> 0:03:26.813 my husband has a male fertility issue as well. 0:03:27.333 --> 0:03:29.012 Like everything was against us. 0:03:29.213 --> 0:03:33.133 And yeah, so we found a newer specialist and it 0:03:33.213 --> 0:03:36.053 went like a dream, like they got more eggs than 0:03:36.093 --> 0:03:37.173 they thought they would get. 0:03:37.653 --> 0:03:40.373 They told me maybe three, like zero to three. We 0:03:40.453 --> 0:03:41.053 got five. 0:03:41.693 --> 0:03:44.973 I think they expected maybe one to fertilize out of those, 0:03:45.573 --> 0:03:49.493 and we got three embryos out of that, and then 0:03:49.533 --> 0:03:52.573 they implanted one and at first we thought it was 0:03:52.733 --> 0:03:56.373 just one child. So I'd had a couple of scans 0:03:56.533 --> 0:03:59.693 at seven weeks and then at eleven weeks and the 0:03:59.933 --> 0:04:04.053 child was developing quite nicely. But yeah, we found out 0:04:04.093 --> 0:04:07.653 at thirteen weeks that that embryo had actually split and 0:04:07.893 --> 0:04:10.053 we were pregnant with identical twins. 0:04:10.493 --> 0:04:14.173 Was it that the embryo split quite late in the process. 0:04:14.213 --> 0:04:16.892 Is that why they wouldn't see it? Or was baby 0:04:16.973 --> 0:04:17.813 be hiding. 0:04:18.213 --> 0:04:20.773 So the first couple of scans I had wasn't like 0:04:20.813 --> 0:04:24.733 a professional ultrasound place. It was with my utility specialist, 0:04:24.733 --> 0:04:27.773 which is what they usually do just in the early weeks, 0:04:27.853 --> 0:04:30.293 just to make sure that there's a heartbeat and that 0:04:30.373 --> 0:04:31.973 you know, you go along and you do your. 0:04:31.933 --> 0:04:33.413 Nipped test and stuff like that. 0:04:33.533 --> 0:04:36.133 So they were really quite quick, and I think she 0:04:36.253 --> 0:04:39.293 was just looking for a baby and a heartbeat and 0:04:39.373 --> 0:04:42.053 didn't go looking for that second because we had one 0:04:42.173 --> 0:04:46.533 embryo implanted. I was forty two. It was amazing that 0:04:46.573 --> 0:04:50.773 I got pregnant first round at my age with one embryo. 0:04:50.973 --> 0:04:53.933 So yeah, I just don't think she went looking for it. 0:04:54.373 --> 0:04:56.813 So your partner, Lee and you, when you find out 0:04:56.813 --> 0:04:59.893 you're having twins, what was your reaction? 0:05:00.573 --> 0:05:03.173 Well, if I'm going to be really honest, the first 0:05:03.213 --> 0:05:08.053 reaction was an internal screaming no. I guess A few 0:05:08.093 --> 0:05:11.693 thoughts run through my mind. One was, oh my god, 0:05:11.733 --> 0:05:14.253 how am I going to cope with twins? My finances 0:05:14.293 --> 0:05:17.453 went through my head. Complications because I knew, like, we 0:05:17.533 --> 0:05:19.893 did everything that they told us to do during the round, 0:05:19.973 --> 0:05:23.413 so I knew that were identical twins, and so I 0:05:23.453 --> 0:05:26.453 was scared for the risks, you know, to me to 0:05:26.493 --> 0:05:27.173 the babies. 0:05:27.333 --> 0:05:30.493 So yeah, I was immediately. 0:05:29.893 --> 0:05:33.613 Fearful, but it's interesting what you do in that moment, 0:05:33.813 --> 0:05:37.693 like lower scanning the one. All I wanted to find 0:05:37.693 --> 0:05:40.693 out was if the other one was healthy. So I 0:05:40.813 --> 0:05:42.893 just had that instinct to protect them and that they 0:05:42.893 --> 0:05:46.053 were my babies, like immediately, even though I was like, 0:05:46.893 --> 0:05:50.013 oh crap, what am I going to do? So but 0:05:50.253 --> 0:05:54.133 once we started telling family members and workmates, you know, 0:05:54.253 --> 0:05:58.173 that fear turned into excitement and we were just like, 0:05:58.253 --> 0:06:00.173 oh my god, they're going to have a best friend 0:06:00.253 --> 0:06:00.693 for life. 0:06:00.733 --> 0:06:03.293 How cool is that? And a connection for life? 0:06:03.413 --> 0:06:07.333 Absolutely yeah, And we'll never understand this. We'll never understand 0:06:07.333 --> 0:06:10.693 this bond, but they will have it, and it was 0:06:10.813 --> 0:06:11.533 just incredible. 0:06:11.973 --> 0:06:15.373 Unfortunately, at twenty two weeks you did find out that 0:06:16.013 --> 0:06:19.493 there was a complication. Will you run us through that? 0:06:20.333 --> 0:06:20.533 Sure? 0:06:21.213 --> 0:06:23.973 So, because we found out quite late in the piece 0:06:24.053 --> 0:06:27.133 that I was having twins and that they were identical 0:06:27.133 --> 0:06:29.933 and that they shared a placenta, my referral to the 0:06:29.933 --> 0:06:31.253 hospital was, I guess a. 0:06:31.253 --> 0:06:32.613 Little bit later than normal. 0:06:32.973 --> 0:06:35.613 So at twenty two weeks I walked into my maternal 0:06:35.653 --> 0:06:39.533 fetal medicine scan. Everything had been fine prior with the 0:06:39.733 --> 0:06:42.733 scans in between thirteen and twenty two weeks. And when 0:06:42.733 --> 0:06:44.973 I walked in that day to the hospital, you know, 0:06:44.973 --> 0:06:48.213 they were scanning me and everything seemed normal. And then 0:06:49.693 --> 0:06:51.213 at the end of the scan, they said, oh, look, 0:06:51.253 --> 0:06:53.213 we're just going to bring in the doctor. And you know, 0:06:53.253 --> 0:06:57.373 we waited for what seemed like forever, and I've just 0:06:57.813 --> 0:07:00.373 had no thought in my mind that anything was wrong, 0:07:00.453 --> 0:07:03.893 even though I'd read the paperwork and the recommendations and 0:07:03.933 --> 0:07:07.613 things like that. And yeah, they told us that they 0:07:07.653 --> 0:07:13.133 suspected that the girls had twin anemia polypcythemia sequence or TAPS. 0:07:13.293 --> 0:07:16.533 So basically, one baby was anemic and one baby had 0:07:16.693 --> 0:07:18.173 too much by. 0:07:18.253 --> 0:07:19.093 Red blood cells. 0:07:19.133 --> 0:07:22.893 Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, so yeah, bloodtoothin, blood tooth thick 0:07:22.933 --> 0:07:25.773 they say, like lemonade and tomato sauce. 0:07:25.933 --> 0:07:28.013 That's the kind of consistency of the blood. 0:07:28.213 --> 0:07:31.373 Yeah, And what's the treatment for that? How do they 0:07:31.413 --> 0:07:32.773 help you get to term? 0:07:33.253 --> 0:07:36.613 Yeah, it's a really difficult thing because one TAPS is 0:07:36.653 --> 0:07:39.973 really quite newly discovered, like only in the last eighteen 0:07:40.053 --> 0:07:43.933 years or so, so the best treatment still hasn't been 0:07:43.973 --> 0:07:47.213 found out. So what they do is really individual to 0:07:47.293 --> 0:07:50.533 each person. In our case, there were options that were 0:07:50.573 --> 0:07:53.693 available to me and options that weren't. So in some cases, 0:07:53.693 --> 0:07:56.733 they can do laser surgery to laser the tiny connections 0:07:56.733 --> 0:08:00.733 in the BLAS center, doing in uterotransfusion, they can birth 0:08:00.773 --> 0:08:03.733 the babies early, or they can just wait and see, 0:08:03.813 --> 0:08:07.013 depending on that. So I had a bit of a combination. 0:08:07.293 --> 0:08:09.773 They wanted to wait and see how the girls went 0:08:10.293 --> 0:08:12.813 because in some cases they can adapt to their new 0:08:13.373 --> 0:08:18.133 I guess environment in the womb. But it did progress 0:08:18.213 --> 0:08:20.253 and did get worse, and that's where we had to 0:08:20.293 --> 0:08:21.813 look to treatment. 0:08:22.133 --> 0:08:26.253 Yeah, so, as I understand it, you had a blood transfusion. 0:08:27.053 --> 0:08:30.373 Yes, how does that work in utero? Yeah? 0:08:30.493 --> 0:08:34.252 Sure, So this is very interesting, especially when it comes 0:08:34.293 --> 0:08:39.293 to twins. So an in uterotransfusion for a normal anemic 0:08:39.973 --> 0:08:45.292 singleton baby is quite common, but in twins it's really uncommon. 0:08:45.453 --> 0:08:50.253 So what they actually had to do was transfuse adult 0:08:50.293 --> 0:08:54.493 donor blood to my anemic baby and take out small 0:08:54.533 --> 0:08:59.053 amounts of blood out of the polycyphemic baby and replace 0:08:59.093 --> 0:09:03.733 that with warm saline. So it was a very scary 0:09:03.773 --> 0:09:06.893 procedure and the way they do it. So I had 0:09:06.933 --> 0:09:10.253 an anterior placenta. It was right in front, so easy 0:09:10.333 --> 0:09:13.333 access to the placenta and umbilical cords. And they go 0:09:13.413 --> 0:09:16.933 in with a big needle, one by one and they 0:09:16.933 --> 0:09:21.173 go into the placenta and then the umbilical cord and 0:09:21.413 --> 0:09:24.173 they that's when they transfuse the blood. And then obviously 0:09:24.213 --> 0:09:27.173 they go into the next baby, big needle through the 0:09:27.213 --> 0:09:30.693 plazender and the umbilical cord and take out small amounts 0:09:30.693 --> 0:09:33.533 of blood and replace that with warm, salty water. 0:09:33.853 --> 0:09:35.733 And were you awake for this procedure? 0:09:36.173 --> 0:09:37.493 Yeah, so the first. 0:09:37.213 --> 0:09:40.373 One at twenty eight weeks, that one was actually just 0:09:40.413 --> 0:09:43.293 done in an ultrasound room. They set up a sterile 0:09:43.413 --> 0:09:46.533 environment and they actually have blood testing on site, so 0:09:46.573 --> 0:09:50.333 there's a formula attached to it as well. They find 0:09:50.373 --> 0:09:53.213 out how much blood they need and the doctors calculate 0:09:53.253 --> 0:09:57.053 all that. But yeah, I was awake, felt everything. There's 0:09:57.093 --> 0:10:01.013 only a local anesthetic on your belly, yep, just to 0:10:01.133 --> 0:10:04.093 numb where the injection site or the needles go in. 0:10:04.813 --> 0:10:07.813 And I had like a little bit of medication to 0:10:08.733 --> 0:10:11.253 I guess keep me calm, and medications to stop the 0:10:11.373 --> 0:10:13.253 uterus contracting and things like that. 0:10:13.573 --> 0:10:15.773 But I could see and feel everything. 0:10:15.853 --> 0:10:18.693 So they had the ultrasound screen up so I could see, 0:10:19.173 --> 0:10:20.893 you know, I just wanted to check that the baby 0:10:20.933 --> 0:10:23.973 girls were still moving and hearts were still beating and 0:10:24.013 --> 0:10:24.733 things like that. 0:10:24.853 --> 0:10:28.173 And Lee happened to be there with me during that one. 0:10:28.533 --> 0:10:31.373 I mean, it was very scary and surreal just to 0:10:31.413 --> 0:10:33.533 think about it, Like when I think about myself in 0:10:33.573 --> 0:10:37.453 that ultrasound chair looking at the screen. Yeah, it's just 0:10:37.853 --> 0:10:39.413 it's amazing what they can do. A bit at the 0:10:39.453 --> 0:10:41.573 same time, you're thinking, oh my god, is this my life? 0:10:42.093 --> 0:10:44.973 So yeah, I mean it's one thing to be pregnant 0:10:45.853 --> 0:10:49.973 after you know, years of infertility. It's enough to be 0:10:50.013 --> 0:10:53.213 pregnant with twins, and it's another thing on top of 0:10:53.213 --> 0:10:57.573 that when there's complications. Definitely, So in terms. 0:10:57.253 --> 0:11:01.053 Of like your mental health and how you were coping. 0:11:01.853 --> 0:11:03.773 Yeah, how was that time for you? 0:11:04.333 --> 0:11:06.573 Yeah? It was very hard. 0:11:06.733 --> 0:11:10.733 I mean, the thought of having something wrong with your 0:11:10.773 --> 0:11:13.773 babies in utero. Like I think the first thing I 0:11:13.853 --> 0:11:17.213 went to was, you know, what did I do? You know, like, 0:11:17.493 --> 0:11:19.733 this must be my fault. It must be something I ate, 0:11:19.813 --> 0:11:24.333 something I did in my you know, like pre pregnant life. 0:11:24.733 --> 0:11:26.493 You know, you think of all the things things and 0:11:26.613 --> 0:11:30.173 mum guilt sets in really quickly, But really I just 0:11:30.253 --> 0:11:33.733 had to turn to the focus of putting my trust 0:11:33.773 --> 0:11:37.173 in the doctors. We have such an incredible medical system, 0:11:37.533 --> 0:11:40.973 especially in Queensland, and access to the brilliant doctors at 0:11:41.013 --> 0:11:44.853 Martyr Hospital in Brisbane. It's incredible, Like the doctors up 0:11:44.893 --> 0:11:48.213 there are just world class and what they do is 0:11:48.333 --> 0:11:50.813 just unbelievable. So I did really feel like I was 0:11:50.853 --> 0:11:54.933 in good hands. I just had to trust that, yeah, 0:11:54.973 --> 0:11:57.732 that we would be okay. It was definitely hard. There 0:11:57.773 --> 0:11:59.973 were a lot of tears and I just had to 0:12:00.093 --> 0:12:01.773 lean on my supports. 0:12:01.333 --> 0:12:02.013 Like I had to. 0:12:02.933 --> 0:12:04.933 Like, there weren't many people going through what I was 0:12:04.973 --> 0:12:05.413 going through. 0:12:05.453 --> 0:12:06.213 It's so rare. 0:12:06.293 --> 0:12:08.693 It only happens in like three to five percent of 0:12:08.893 --> 0:12:13.693 identical twin pregnancies, so yeah, it's it's extremely rare. There's 0:12:13.733 --> 0:12:15.373 not a lot of people you can reach out to. 0:12:15.493 --> 0:12:17.733 But like I had my family and then I also 0:12:17.853 --> 0:12:21.333 had a tach support for them who were just wonderful. 0:12:21.413 --> 0:12:24.213 So yeah, sought some help online as well. You know 0:12:24.253 --> 0:12:27.133 what questions to ask and you know what's it like 0:12:27.253 --> 0:12:29.333 and can anyone tell me if they've had any UTEROI 0:12:29.413 --> 0:12:32.693 transfusion before, so really just reaching out to all the 0:12:32.733 --> 0:12:35.413 resources I could to help get me by. 0:12:35.613 --> 0:12:37.893 It was just really like survival mode, to be honest. 0:12:38.933 --> 0:12:43.573 I imagine that there was a discussion of how far 0:12:43.813 --> 0:12:46.773 into the pregnancy they would like you to get, and 0:12:47.333 --> 0:12:50.732 I imagine that they were suggesting. 0:12:50.213 --> 0:12:53.053 A c section because you were higher risk. 0:12:53.453 --> 0:12:56.333 Did they have a goal for you and can you 0:12:56.373 --> 0:12:59.173 tell us a little bit about going into labor? 0:12:59.693 --> 0:12:59.973 Sure? 0:13:00.573 --> 0:13:03.893 So, yes, the goal, and in most cases with taps 0:13:04.173 --> 0:13:06.973 is thirty two weeks. Getting to thirty two weeks usually 0:13:07.013 --> 0:13:10.253 the placenta is not happy by the end of thirty 0:13:10.293 --> 0:13:12.893 two weeks and it's a good idea to birth them 0:13:13.173 --> 0:13:15.813 because it gets riskier. There's no more treatment that can 0:13:15.853 --> 0:13:18.413 be done at that stage. So the aim for me 0:13:18.533 --> 0:13:21.693 was to get to thirty two weeks. Unfortunately, at thirty 0:13:21.733 --> 0:13:24.732 two weeks I went to my local hospital. They didn't 0:13:24.733 --> 0:13:28.733 have any nick Cure special care beds available for the girls, 0:13:28.773 --> 0:13:31.293 so they turned me back around, referred me back to 0:13:31.333 --> 0:13:34.893 the martyr and said, let's see what they think they 0:13:34.893 --> 0:13:39.653 should do with you, and they suggested another transfusion, which 0:13:39.653 --> 0:13:41.053 we did at thirty two weeks. 0:13:41.333 --> 0:13:43.293 Very very risky, but this time. 0:13:43.373 --> 0:13:46.493 It was in theater with an epidural, so I felt 0:13:46.493 --> 0:13:49.013 a lot safer if something went wrong, they could just 0:13:49.053 --> 0:13:54.133 birth the girls. Thankfully, it was very successful and they 0:13:54.173 --> 0:13:56.853 sent me home the next morning and just said it 0:13:56.893 --> 0:13:58.492 could be any time. If we get a couple of 0:13:58.573 --> 0:14:00.733 days out of this, it'll be great, And I was like, 0:14:00.893 --> 0:14:04.853 oh wow, Like reality just really set in. Then I 0:14:04.893 --> 0:14:09.333 got to thirty three plus two and my waters broke. 0:14:09.773 --> 0:14:13.173 So sitting on the couch on a Saturday night and 0:14:13.253 --> 0:14:16.252 my waters broke and I went to hospital. 0:14:17.093 --> 0:14:18.892 Now, my local hospital still. 0:14:18.613 --> 0:14:21.613 Didn't have nick cure or special care beds, so I 0:14:21.653 --> 0:14:24.453 stayed a couple of days there with antibiotics and there 0:14:24.533 --> 0:14:27.413 was no labor progressing aside from the water's breaking. 0:14:27.853 --> 0:14:30.773 So they sent me up to Marta and. 0:14:30.933 --> 0:14:34.573 When I got there, we made it through one night. 0:14:34.813 --> 0:14:37.813 The aim was to get me to thirty four weeks, 0:14:37.973 --> 0:14:39.573 so that was the plan. I was like, we had 0:14:39.573 --> 0:14:43.213 it in our minds Oka thirty four weeks, I was 0:14:43.253 --> 0:14:46.973 thirty three plus six and I went for a well 0:14:46.973 --> 0:14:50.053 being scan and everything seemed fine. That was at four 0:14:50.053 --> 0:14:55.373 o'clock in the afternoon. At ten pm during a routine CTG, 0:14:56.173 --> 0:14:59.933 my baby be had a very high heart rate. 0:15:00.693 --> 0:15:01.933 So they were like all of. 0:15:01.893 --> 0:15:05.613 A sudden, doctors and nurses swarming around me and said 0:15:05.733 --> 0:15:09.213 it's time to get the girls out. So my husband 0:15:09.253 --> 0:15:12.133 was still at home an hour away and didn't quite 0:15:12.213 --> 0:15:12.933 make the birth. 0:15:13.493 --> 0:15:14.853 Oh no, yeah. 0:15:15.653 --> 0:15:17.613 I asked them to hold on, like cut, you just 0:15:17.693 --> 0:15:21.293 hold on an hour until he gets here, but expecting 0:15:21.333 --> 0:15:24.653 to birth the next day. He rushed up the motorway 0:15:25.253 --> 0:15:27.893 but still didn't quite make it. But I found out 0:15:28.013 --> 0:15:31.253 later that it was probably like a category one sea section. 0:15:31.373 --> 0:15:33.733 They were like, these babies have to come now. It's 0:15:33.893 --> 0:15:36.853 really bad, but I didn't realize like they made me 0:15:36.973 --> 0:15:40.613 feel like, yes, it's an emergency, but everything's going to 0:15:40.693 --> 0:15:43.213 be okay. 0:15:43.253 --> 0:15:43.773 Coming up. 0:15:44.973 --> 0:15:48.093 My husband arrived just as Poppy had been born, so 0:15:48.453 --> 0:15:51.813 Billy was born first and she was the one whose 0:15:51.853 --> 0:15:54.573 heart rate had caused the emergency sea section. 0:15:59.253 --> 0:16:02.373 So by yourself, were you scared? 0:16:02.933 --> 0:16:03.653 Absolutely? 0:16:03.853 --> 0:16:06.013 I burst into tears a minute that they told me 0:16:06.093 --> 0:16:08.413 that the babies had to come right that minute. I 0:16:08.733 --> 0:16:13.613 was frantic, like calling my husband. I just I couldn't breathe. 0:16:14.133 --> 0:16:17.413 It was really awful. At one point when we got 0:16:17.493 --> 0:16:20.173 when I got to theater and I had everyone around me, 0:16:20.213 --> 0:16:21.853 and they asked you all the questions, what are we 0:16:21.893 --> 0:16:26.293 doing today having a C section? I started to calm 0:16:26.333 --> 0:16:29.093 down once I saw my medical team and I asked, someone, 0:16:29.213 --> 0:16:32.453 can you put on my playlist? Because I had organized 0:16:32.453 --> 0:16:34.893 a playlist and it was all my favorite songs. Forty 0:16:34.893 --> 0:16:37.733 five minutes of my favorite songs. They said, yep, we 0:16:37.773 --> 0:16:40.413 can absolutely do that. I was like, oh my god, 0:16:40.453 --> 0:16:43.373 thank you so much, started crying again, and then one 0:16:43.373 --> 0:16:45.933 of them put their hand on my shoulder and went, okay, 0:16:46.013 --> 0:16:49.413 let's have a birthday party. And that's where I was like, Okay, 0:16:49.533 --> 0:16:52.413 I feel well looked after now. So even though I 0:16:52.413 --> 0:16:55.013 didn't have my husband, I had my music, I had 0:16:55.013 --> 0:16:57.493 an incredible medical team, and I just really had to 0:16:58.533 --> 0:16:59.733 be grateful for what I. 0:16:59.653 --> 0:17:01.213 Did have, not what I didn't have. 0:17:01.413 --> 0:17:04.533 So yeah, yeah, and I knew that the babies were 0:17:04.532 --> 0:17:05.812 going to be safe as well. 0:17:06.332 --> 0:17:08.292 So the babies come out, did they go straight to 0:17:08.693 --> 0:17:09.253 the niku? 0:17:09.693 --> 0:17:11.372 Yeah, So they showed the girls to me. 0:17:11.453 --> 0:17:14.013 Their cards had to be cut straight away and they 0:17:14.052 --> 0:17:17.613 were whisked away. My husband arrived just as Poppy had 0:17:17.653 --> 0:17:21.852 been born, So Billy was born first, and she was 0:17:21.893 --> 0:17:25.213 the one whose heart rate had caused the emergency C section, 0:17:25.853 --> 0:17:29.213 so she was born first, and then Poppy was born 0:17:29.493 --> 0:17:32.333 and Lee just arrived, so he was able to follow 0:17:32.333 --> 0:17:33.893 them up, which was amazing. 0:17:34.333 --> 0:17:36.973 Yeah that's good. That would have made you feel a 0:17:37.013 --> 0:17:38.133 little bit calmer. 0:17:38.373 --> 0:17:39.013 Yeah. Yeah. 0:17:39.053 --> 0:17:42.133 All I could like at that point was about the babies, 0:17:42.333 --> 0:17:44.733 and so he was like, do you mind if I 0:17:44.773 --> 0:17:48.453 go up and I was like, yes, please go, yeah, go, 0:17:48.973 --> 0:17:50.813 and he named them up there and everything. 0:17:50.893 --> 0:17:55.173 So, yeah, tell me about your first time holding them. Yeah. 0:17:55.213 --> 0:17:58.693 So I actually didn't get to hold them what was 0:17:58.733 --> 0:18:03.133 one by one at first? They were in the nicku 0:18:03.253 --> 0:18:06.133 in separate CODs at separate ends of the room because 0:18:06.173 --> 0:18:08.693 that's all they had at the time. Yeah, it was 0:18:08.733 --> 0:18:11.612 a little bit sad, but I mean, the facilities up 0:18:11.613 --> 0:18:14.213 there are just so wonderful and the nurses are incredible. 0:18:14.733 --> 0:18:17.213 So I didn't get to hold them until about twelve 0:18:17.253 --> 0:18:20.213 hours after the birth, and that was separately, and it 0:18:20.213 --> 0:18:21.933 was all about of a whirlwind. I think I was 0:18:21.973 --> 0:18:24.653 a little bit drugged up still, to be honest, and 0:18:24.973 --> 0:18:26.933 I just couldn't believe everything that happened. 0:18:26.933 --> 0:18:28.973 I was just I think I was just in shock. 0:18:29.133 --> 0:18:31.933 But I do remember the moment that I held them 0:18:31.933 --> 0:18:34.653 both together, which was a couple of days later, and 0:18:34.693 --> 0:18:37.653 that was just the best thing ever, Like they were 0:18:37.693 --> 0:18:41.092 finally safe, they were finally together, they were finally with me, 0:18:41.413 --> 0:18:45.092 And yeah, it was just a beautiful, beautiful moment just 0:18:45.173 --> 0:18:45.773 holding them. 0:18:46.173 --> 0:18:48.453 Yeah. Well, you had, you know, months and months of 0:18:48.613 --> 0:18:55.213 stress and anxiety and stressful birth. To have them safe 0:18:55.253 --> 0:18:56.933 would have just been so special. 0:18:57.293 --> 0:19:01.133 Absolutely, Yeah, it was just wonderful. Yeah. 0:19:01.173 --> 0:19:04.453 And the question that I'm sure everybody asks a twin mom, 0:19:05.093 --> 0:19:06.133 did you mix them up? 0:19:06.813 --> 0:19:06.893 No? 0:19:08.733 --> 0:19:12.813 So well, I guess from the beginning. So we actually 0:19:12.853 --> 0:19:16.733 discovered that the reason that Billy caused the emergency c 0:19:16.933 --> 0:19:20.573 section was because I got an infection after the waters broke. 0:19:21.293 --> 0:19:24.173 So I ended up getting an ecoli infection on my 0:19:24.213 --> 0:19:29.052 placenta which spread to Billy because only her amniotic sac broke. 0:19:29.853 --> 0:19:32.133 So it was really easy to tell them apart because 0:19:32.173 --> 0:19:35.333 she had a line with antibiotics. So I know that 0:19:35.373 --> 0:19:37.613 sounds it's quite sad, but at the same time that 0:19:37.693 --> 0:19:40.133 it was impossible to mix them up, so we definitely 0:19:40.213 --> 0:19:43.413 knew who was who. But even after we got home, 0:19:43.573 --> 0:19:44.733 I never mixed them up. 0:19:44.773 --> 0:19:46.133 I just knew who was who. 0:19:46.413 --> 0:19:49.493 And I think the way that I answer that because 0:19:49.533 --> 0:19:51.773 everyone says, oh my god, they look exactly the same. 0:19:52.413 --> 0:19:54.493 I just say, I'm their mum and I can tell. 0:19:54.533 --> 0:19:59.493 So they're so different in personality, even their laughs, their voices, 0:20:00.413 --> 0:20:03.573 They've got opposite sides, like hair worlds. 0:20:04.173 --> 0:20:06.133 Yeah, they're just so different to us. 0:20:06.933 --> 0:20:07.973 How old are they now? 0:20:08.333 --> 0:20:10.733 They're two years old. Yeah, they just turned too. 0:20:10.973 --> 0:20:12.973 Yeah, and how was your recovery? 0:20:13.813 --> 0:20:14.812 Yeah it was rocky. 0:20:15.853 --> 0:20:20.613 My pain was definitely not controlled in the first few days. 0:20:21.173 --> 0:20:23.613 Yeah, my pain level was just through the roof. 0:20:23.693 --> 0:20:26.693 And the way they explained that is sometimes because of 0:20:26.733 --> 0:20:29.653 the extra stretching and things with twins, the pain level 0:20:29.693 --> 0:20:32.533 can be higher, so it was really hard to get 0:20:32.533 --> 0:20:35.813 that under control. So yeah, definitely for the first couple 0:20:35.853 --> 0:20:38.293 of weeks, I actually had to go home with pain relief, 0:20:38.373 --> 0:20:41.892 which is apparently not that common, so I need an 0:20:42.013 --> 0:20:46.653 extra extra week with the painkillers. But after that it 0:20:46.813 --> 0:20:49.013 was it was fairly okay, I think. 0:20:49.453 --> 0:20:52.532 Yeah, yeah, well you were sleep deprived and looking up 0:20:52.693 --> 0:20:53.532 through newborns. 0:20:53.813 --> 0:20:55.213 Yeah, I barely remember that. 0:20:55.453 --> 0:20:58.373 So, yeah, pumping eight times a day and you know, 0:20:58.533 --> 0:21:02.532 feeding eight times a day, and yeah, sterilizing and trying 0:21:02.533 --> 0:21:06.453 to get maybe an hour and a half combined sleep was. Yeah, 0:21:06.533 --> 0:21:08.893