1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:09,686 Speaker 1: You're listening to. 2 00:00:06,926 --> 00:00:10,685 Speaker 2: A Mother and Me podcast. 3 00:00:11,006 --> 00:00:14,286 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Cassanne Lukich here, host of Diary of a Birth, 4 00:00:14,566 --> 00:00:17,925 Speaker 1: and this summer we've curated your delivery room playlist to 5 00:00:17,966 --> 00:00:21,526 Speaker 1: bring you even more unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're 6 00:00:21,566 --> 00:00:24,286 Speaker 1: bringing you our favorite episodes of Diary of a Birth 7 00:00:24,526 --> 00:00:25,766 Speaker 1: right here in your feet. 8 00:00:26,206 --> 00:00:27,926 Speaker 2: That's your holiday listening sorded. 9 00:00:28,366 --> 00:00:30,806 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for more to listen to, every 10 00:00:30,846 --> 00:00:34,165 Speaker 1: Mum and mea podcast is curating your summer listening right 11 00:00:34,246 --> 00:00:38,565 Speaker 1: across our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews, 12 00:00:38,726 --> 00:00:41,126 Speaker 1: there's something for everyone. Check out the link in the 13 00:00:41,126 --> 00:00:41,726 Speaker 1: show notes. 14 00:00:46,446 --> 00:00:50,285 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Cassenie Lukic and this is Diary of a Birth. 15 00:00:51,086 --> 00:00:55,126 Speaker 3: One in four women experience a miscarriage, and for some reason, 16 00:00:55,726 --> 00:00:59,286 Speaker 3: there's still a societal expectation to not tell anyone about 17 00:00:59,286 --> 00:01:03,526 Speaker 3: a pregnancy until twelve weeks, meaning that many women who 18 00:01:03,606 --> 00:01:08,685 Speaker 3: do experience a loss suffer in silence. Today's mum was 19 00:01:08,965 --> 00:01:11,966 Speaker 3: one of them, and when she fell pregnant again, it 20 00:01:12,126 --> 00:01:15,566 Speaker 3: was the natural fear that she would experience another loss. 21 00:01:16,406 --> 00:01:20,206 Speaker 4: The big side effect of having a loss at any 22 00:01:20,206 --> 00:01:22,566 Speaker 4: point sort of in your journey, is it does color 23 00:01:22,806 --> 00:01:26,606 Speaker 4: your celebration of any of the next pregnancies that you 24 00:01:26,646 --> 00:01:27,686 Speaker 4: may be lucky enough to have. 25 00:01:29,566 --> 00:01:33,326 Speaker 2: Our mom today is also an adoptee who had no 26 00:01:33,606 --> 00:01:37,766 Speaker 2: known blood relatives of her own, so during her second pregnancy, 27 00:01:37,886 --> 00:01:41,366 Speaker 2: she was faced with questions of identity and what it 28 00:01:41,446 --> 00:01:45,246 Speaker 2: truly means to be a family. They say blood is 29 00:01:45,286 --> 00:01:49,046 Speaker 2: thicker than water, but in this mom's case, love is 30 00:01:49,126 --> 00:01:52,566 Speaker 2: thicker than both. So let's meet today's mom. 31 00:01:53,286 --> 00:01:56,006 Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Sarah and this is the diary of my 32 00:01:56,086 --> 00:01:57,126 Speaker 4: birth with Teddy. 33 00:01:59,006 --> 00:02:02,966 Speaker 1: So, Sarah, you have been, you know, pretty candid about 34 00:02:03,206 --> 00:02:07,166 Speaker 1: your journey and what you've got through. But I wanted 35 00:02:07,166 --> 00:02:11,806 Speaker 1: to kind of start with your backstory. Now you're an adoptee. 36 00:02:12,365 --> 00:02:14,366 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, a little bit different. 37 00:02:15,365 --> 00:02:19,245 Speaker 1: Yeah, So growing up, did you know much about your 38 00:02:19,326 --> 00:02:20,286 Speaker 1: birth parents? 39 00:02:20,886 --> 00:02:26,126 Speaker 4: So it's quite a unique situation when you are adopted, 40 00:02:26,925 --> 00:02:32,125 Speaker 4: when there's cross cultural adoption and cross country adoption, because 41 00:02:33,206 --> 00:02:35,925 Speaker 4: it depends very much on the country that you were 42 00:02:35,925 --> 00:02:40,286 Speaker 4: born in and the level of documentation and record keeping 43 00:02:40,486 --> 00:02:45,645 Speaker 4: that existed over there. And so my parents, it's the 44 00:02:45,766 --> 00:02:48,085 Speaker 4: clarity I sometimes say my adoptive parents, but they're sort 45 00:02:48,125 --> 00:02:50,766 Speaker 4: of the only parents I've ever known and you know 46 00:02:50,846 --> 00:02:53,486 Speaker 4: my family. I always say people say blood is thicker 47 00:02:53,486 --> 00:02:55,566 Speaker 4: than water, and I always say love is thicker than both. 48 00:02:55,566 --> 00:02:58,886 Speaker 4: So they're my parents. They brought my younger brother and 49 00:02:58,925 --> 00:03:02,286 Speaker 4: I up with as much support as we wanted to 50 00:03:02,486 --> 00:03:07,525 Speaker 4: explore our roots and Korean culture and our birth parents, 51 00:03:08,125 --> 00:03:11,686 Speaker 4: and made those doors open, but never pushed us in 52 00:03:11,726 --> 00:03:15,686 Speaker 4: that direction. The problem is, even if you've you're curious, 53 00:03:15,805 --> 00:03:19,406 Speaker 4: of course I'd be curious to go and explore it. 54 00:03:19,446 --> 00:03:22,725 Speaker 4: I've never had that. I think sometimes people are driven 55 00:03:23,206 --> 00:03:25,686 Speaker 4: to find their birth parents by a sense of a 56 00:03:25,726 --> 00:03:28,446 Speaker 4: gap or something's missing. I never felt that. I was 57 00:03:28,486 --> 00:03:30,645 Speaker 4: more driven by it'd be cool to have my medical 58 00:03:30,685 --> 00:03:33,766 Speaker 4: history for things like fertility, or just to see what 59 00:03:33,805 --> 00:03:36,486 Speaker 4: you look like, or you know, out of interest. But 60 00:03:36,806 --> 00:03:39,886 Speaker 4: the big difficulty is that it's extremely hard. Career was 61 00:03:40,046 --> 00:03:43,326 Speaker 4: a third world country back in the eighties. There wasn't 62 00:03:43,406 --> 00:03:48,926 Speaker 4: really the internet, files weren't digitized. Often the circumstances of 63 00:03:48,966 --> 00:03:52,046 Speaker 4: your adoption are also shrouded in secrecy, so the original 64 00:03:52,126 --> 00:03:57,206 Speaker 4: documents might not even have the accurate information anyway. And then, 65 00:03:57,246 --> 00:03:59,326 Speaker 4: of course, by the time you're an adult and you 66 00:03:59,406 --> 00:04:02,366 Speaker 4: might make a decision to go back and find those details. 67 00:04:02,726 --> 00:04:06,366 Speaker 4: People have moved house or changed names, or moved cities, 68 00:04:06,446 --> 00:04:11,366 Speaker 4: and it's just sort of a logistical nightmare. It is possible. 69 00:04:11,686 --> 00:04:13,606 Speaker 4: I do know people who have gone to try and 70 00:04:13,766 --> 00:04:18,406 Speaker 4: make connections and reconnect with family members, but the enormity 71 00:04:18,406 --> 00:04:20,446 Speaker 4: of the process, you've got to really want it, and 72 00:04:20,486 --> 00:04:22,086 Speaker 4: I really have just never felt that. 73 00:04:22,445 --> 00:04:22,885 Speaker 5: Yeah. 74 00:04:23,005 --> 00:04:24,806 Speaker 1: I could probably talk to you for about an hour 75 00:04:24,806 --> 00:04:27,965 Speaker 1: about that, because I find it incredibly interesting, but particularly 76 00:04:28,005 --> 00:04:29,246 Speaker 1: the cultural. 77 00:04:28,726 --> 00:04:30,326 Speaker 2: Impacts of it. 78 00:04:30,445 --> 00:04:32,406 Speaker 1: And there is a bit of news about, you know, 79 00:04:32,686 --> 00:04:36,886 Speaker 1: adoption trauma and feeling like you're a part of your 80 00:04:36,926 --> 00:04:40,126 Speaker 1: heritage but then your family as well. But it sounds 81 00:04:40,166 --> 00:04:43,126 Speaker 1: like you've had a really beautiful upbringing and family. But 82 00:04:43,606 --> 00:04:46,926 Speaker 1: let's talk first a little bit about you and Nick 83 00:04:47,765 --> 00:04:52,445 Speaker 1: felt pregnant using ovulation induction. Yes, what happened with that 84 00:04:52,686 --> 00:04:53,645 Speaker 1: first pregnancy. 85 00:04:54,086 --> 00:04:57,445 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we have an even more unique kind of 86 00:04:58,005 --> 00:05:02,646 Speaker 4: tapestry of fertility and background in that I was adopted 87 00:05:02,686 --> 00:05:06,526 Speaker 4: and Nick's mum was also adopted, and she was actually 88 00:05:06,526 --> 00:05:08,926 Speaker 4: one of the first Asians adopted into Australia. So when 89 00:05:08,926 --> 00:05:11,926 Speaker 4: we first met, my mom didn't believe that it was true. 90 00:05:11,926 --> 00:05:14,046 Speaker 4: She sort of said to me, boys, we'll say things 91 00:05:14,166 --> 00:05:15,926 Speaker 4: just to get certain things out of you. I'm sure 92 00:05:16,046 --> 00:05:17,766 Speaker 4: that's too much of a coincidence, but it turned out 93 00:05:17,765 --> 00:05:20,205 Speaker 4: to be true. So when we did start trying, we 94 00:05:20,246 --> 00:05:22,686 Speaker 4: didn't have a lot of background on whether it would 95 00:05:22,726 --> 00:05:25,366 Speaker 4: be difficult or not. But we just sort of thought, 96 00:05:25,406 --> 00:05:27,606 Speaker 4: we'll try naturally for a little while and see how 97 00:05:27,646 --> 00:05:29,525 Speaker 4: it goes. And I'd been on the pill for a 98 00:05:29,565 --> 00:05:31,926 Speaker 4: very long time. I was a ballerina when I was younger, 99 00:05:31,926 --> 00:05:33,126 Speaker 4: and I thought that it would be a lot more 100 00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:36,086 Speaker 4: difficult than it was. But we actually fell pregnant quite quickly. 101 00:05:36,126 --> 00:05:41,085 Speaker 4: I think it was within three natural cycles the very 102 00:05:41,086 --> 00:05:43,725 Speaker 4: first time that we started trying. We didn't use ovulation induction. 103 00:05:43,806 --> 00:05:47,206 Speaker 4: We just started tracking my cycles and then yeah, and 104 00:05:47,246 --> 00:05:50,565 Speaker 4: then we're very lucky to just fell pregnant quite quickly 105 00:05:51,445 --> 00:05:56,166 Speaker 4: and within about six weeks, so we knew very early 106 00:05:56,206 --> 00:05:58,046 Speaker 4: because I was tracking my cycles. I was a little 107 00:05:58,046 --> 00:05:59,846 Speaker 4: bit older than I probably thought I would have been 108 00:05:59,885 --> 00:06:02,565 Speaker 4: when we first started trying, because COVID had gotten the way, 109 00:06:02,646 --> 00:06:05,166 Speaker 4: we had an illness in the family. I do believe 110 00:06:05,206 --> 00:06:07,686 Speaker 4: it all worked out exactly how it was supposed to do, 111 00:06:07,726 --> 00:06:11,126 Speaker 4: but it's hard to believe that going forward. At the time, 112 00:06:11,966 --> 00:06:14,565 Speaker 4: but by the time of our six week scan, so 113 00:06:14,606 --> 00:06:18,046 Speaker 4: I had symptoms very early. We had our initial viability 114 00:06:18,086 --> 00:06:22,086 Speaker 4: scan and they could see the sack, the gestational sack, 115 00:06:22,126 --> 00:06:26,086 Speaker 4: but there was no heartbeat or fetal pole I think 116 00:06:26,126 --> 00:06:28,006 Speaker 4: it was at the time, and they said that sometimes 117 00:06:28,046 --> 00:06:31,606 Speaker 4: can happen. It's not conclusive either way, but if you're 118 00:06:31,606 --> 00:06:35,526 Speaker 4: getting symptoms and all the right levels arising, then come 119 00:06:35,565 --> 00:06:37,046 Speaker 4: back in a week. And so we went back at 120 00:06:37,086 --> 00:06:40,606 Speaker 4: seven weeks, same thing, and by that time they sort 121 00:06:40,606 --> 00:06:43,046 Speaker 4: of thought, look, if you're really not seeing a heart 122 00:06:43,046 --> 00:06:45,406 Speaker 4: beat by now, we don't think that this is going 123 00:06:45,406 --> 00:06:50,086 Speaker 4: to progress. But again, stranger things have happened. Come back 124 00:06:50,086 --> 00:06:51,726 Speaker 4: in another week, and so we were kind of being 125 00:06:51,846 --> 00:06:55,686 Speaker 4: droop fed this information and seven days has never felt longer. 126 00:06:56,166 --> 00:06:58,726 Speaker 4: And by eight weeks, you know, it was pretty clear 127 00:06:58,806 --> 00:07:02,286 Speaker 4: that we had been able to conceive, but just the 128 00:07:02,765 --> 00:07:07,246 Speaker 4: pregnancy wasn't viable. There was no particular reason, just sometimes 129 00:07:07,246 --> 00:07:12,606 Speaker 4: the science doesn't do the science and it never progressed too. 130 00:07:12,686 --> 00:07:15,006 Speaker 4: So I think it's called a missed miscarriage when it 131 00:07:15,046 --> 00:07:17,206 Speaker 4: never progresses to a viable pregnancy. 132 00:07:17,606 --> 00:07:22,766 Speaker 1: Obviously an incredibly difficult time, and miscarriage, I think is 133 00:07:22,806 --> 00:07:26,846 Speaker 1: something that's really hard for women to talk about and 134 00:07:27,566 --> 00:07:30,686 Speaker 1: really important for us to address it. Whether it's six 135 00:07:30,726 --> 00:07:34,326 Speaker 1: weeks or twenty weeks, it is a really really hard 136 00:07:34,446 --> 00:07:36,086 Speaker 1: thing to go through. 137 00:07:36,606 --> 00:07:39,606 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that is one of the 138 00:07:39,646 --> 00:07:43,046 Speaker 4: first things I did say to myself as a coping 139 00:07:43,086 --> 00:07:47,246 Speaker 4: mechanism was oh, it's fine, though, because it was so early, 140 00:07:47,606 --> 00:07:52,206 Speaker 4: and almost tried to dismiss any emotional response because I 141 00:07:52,206 --> 00:07:54,526 Speaker 4: felt bad that it hadn't been longer and that I 142 00:07:54,686 --> 00:07:57,886 Speaker 4: didn't I compared it to people who had had a 143 00:07:57,886 --> 00:08:00,646 Speaker 4: heartbeat first and had made it to twelve weeks, and 144 00:08:01,926 --> 00:08:05,006 Speaker 4: did sort of try and downplay it, maybe as a 145 00:08:05,006 --> 00:08:08,926 Speaker 4: protection mechanism. But it is funny how instantly women do 146 00:08:09,246 --> 00:08:15,206 Speaker 4: try and be stoic and cope and hide it. It's 147 00:08:15,246 --> 00:08:20,326 Speaker 4: so shrouded in secrecy and shame and stigma. And I 148 00:08:20,366 --> 00:08:23,966 Speaker 4: didn't tell anybody, and I'm a chronic oversharer. I mean, 149 00:08:24,006 --> 00:08:25,726 Speaker 4: it's so hard to get me not to tell you 150 00:08:25,766 --> 00:08:28,046 Speaker 4: about my bodily functions. So the fact that I held 151 00:08:28,086 --> 00:08:32,526 Speaker 4: it in in such a dramatic time was quite unusual. 152 00:08:33,406 --> 00:08:36,446 Speaker 4: And I think the difficulty for me was I had 153 00:08:36,486 --> 00:08:38,526 Speaker 4: a lot of symptoms. I was still quite nauseous, but 154 00:08:39,405 --> 00:08:43,606 Speaker 4: the miscarriage didn't pass naturally. It wasn't happening. So I 155 00:08:43,646 --> 00:08:46,766 Speaker 4: stayed feeling pregnant for quite a few weeks and I 156 00:08:46,766 --> 00:08:49,565 Speaker 4: couldn't get in to anywhere that I wanted to get 157 00:08:49,566 --> 00:08:55,366 Speaker 4: into for the DNC procedure that I needed, and it 158 00:08:55,366 --> 00:08:57,606 Speaker 4: took me three weeks, so I had to keep just 159 00:08:57,806 --> 00:09:00,846 Speaker 4: living feeling pregnant but knowing that it wasn't going to 160 00:09:00,886 --> 00:09:02,966 Speaker 4: go ahead, and that was I think the hardest, the 161 00:09:03,006 --> 00:09:06,246 Speaker 4: hardest part of it all. And I did end up 162 00:09:07,045 --> 00:09:10,925 Speaker 4: getting the DNC, and the crazy timing was I had 163 00:09:10,926 --> 00:09:13,446 Speaker 4: the surgery. I gave myself two days of grace again, 164 00:09:13,526 --> 00:09:15,966 Speaker 4: a very typical thing, and then I went straight into 165 00:09:16,966 --> 00:09:19,686 Speaker 4: It was International Women's Day. It's the busiest week of 166 00:09:19,766 --> 00:09:22,086 Speaker 4: the year for me with hosting and MC and in 167 00:09:22,126 --> 00:09:26,285 Speaker 4: a room full of supportive women talking about women's unique issues, 168 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:29,566 Speaker 4: I still didn't say anything, and that now shocks me 169 00:09:29,686 --> 00:09:31,566 Speaker 4: to think why I didn't. 170 00:09:32,285 --> 00:09:35,606 Speaker 1: I think I think it's again a protection mechanism, because 171 00:09:35,646 --> 00:09:39,526 Speaker 1: often it's almost like i'll talk about it. I'm ready 172 00:09:39,526 --> 00:09:42,566 Speaker 1: to talk about it with you once I've processed it, 173 00:09:43,246 --> 00:09:45,326 Speaker 1: because if I talk about it right away, I'm going 174 00:09:45,366 --> 00:09:47,246 Speaker 1: to break down. Then this is not going to work. 175 00:09:47,966 --> 00:09:52,446 Speaker 1: Let's move on to falling pregnant with Teddy. So you 176 00:09:52,686 --> 00:09:55,806 Speaker 1: mentioned that you did, at this point for your second 177 00:09:55,846 --> 00:09:58,285 Speaker 1: pregnancy use ovulation induction. 178 00:09:59,086 --> 00:10:03,886 Speaker 4: Yes, so I got my cycle back pretty quickly, and interestingly, 179 00:10:03,966 --> 00:10:07,326 Speaker 4: I'd had really long cycle since getting off the pill, 180 00:10:07,366 --> 00:10:10,086 Speaker 4: like fifty to sixty days, and it's funny what the 181 00:10:10,086 --> 00:10:12,966 Speaker 4: body can do to heal itself. Pretty much straight away, 182 00:10:13,206 --> 00:10:16,286 Speaker 4: my periods went back to thirty days, like twenty eight 183 00:10:16,326 --> 00:10:19,966 Speaker 4: to thirty days, very regular. But because I'd never really 184 00:10:20,006 --> 00:10:23,766 Speaker 4: had a cycle that I knew well or was familiar with, 185 00:10:23,886 --> 00:10:25,846 Speaker 4: I didn't know when I was ovulating. So Nick and 186 00:10:25,846 --> 00:10:27,846 Speaker 4: I were just kind of stabbing in the dark. I mean, 187 00:10:27,886 --> 00:10:32,246 Speaker 4: the timing is everything has to align so fratuitously that 188 00:10:32,326 --> 00:10:34,165 Speaker 4: the more information you can get the better. And we 189 00:10:34,165 --> 00:10:36,806 Speaker 4: were both in our thirties and thought, let's not wait, 190 00:10:37,405 --> 00:10:40,166 Speaker 4: let's get some support from a fertility specialist. And that 191 00:10:40,246 --> 00:10:42,366 Speaker 4: was a person who had been seeing through that whole 192 00:10:42,446 --> 00:10:44,886 Speaker 4: D and C process as well, and they had suggested, 193 00:10:45,526 --> 00:10:48,165 Speaker 4: if you use ovulation induction, you can really track what 194 00:10:48,206 --> 00:10:51,406 Speaker 4: your body's doing and pinpoint the most optimal time for 195 00:10:51,446 --> 00:10:54,486 Speaker 4: you to be trying and then you take trigger injections 196 00:10:54,486 --> 00:10:56,205 Speaker 4: and it makes sure that you are ovulating in the 197 00:10:56,246 --> 00:10:58,286 Speaker 4: window that you need to be. And we did that 198 00:10:58,326 --> 00:11:01,606 Speaker 4: for three months and that wasn't successful. And I think 199 00:11:01,606 --> 00:11:04,086 Speaker 4: that's it's quite normal. I think as an A type personality, 200 00:11:04,086 --> 00:11:05,966 Speaker 4: you want it to happen on the first time that 201 00:11:06,006 --> 00:11:07,646 Speaker 4: you do all the things, and that's just not how 202 00:11:07,686 --> 00:11:09,686 Speaker 4: it works. But we had a wedding overseas and I 203 00:11:09,686 --> 00:11:11,806 Speaker 4: couldn't take the medication with me, so we didn't do 204 00:11:11,926 --> 00:11:17,126 Speaker 4: OI for one cycle. And that was the cycle when 205 00:11:17,165 --> 00:11:19,846 Speaker 4: we got pregnant, when I wasn't thinking about it and 206 00:11:19,926 --> 00:11:24,006 Speaker 4: I wasn't being so intense about the injections and the timing, 207 00:11:24,366 --> 00:11:25,246 Speaker 4: and it all happened. 208 00:11:25,526 --> 00:11:27,886 Speaker 1: I know you hear this story so often, but the 209 00:11:27,926 --> 00:11:30,766 Speaker 1: worst thing you can tell someone if they're struggling with 210 00:11:30,846 --> 00:11:33,926 Speaker 1: fertility or trying to have a baby, it's just relax, 211 00:11:34,446 --> 00:11:37,246 Speaker 1: go on a holiday. It's like the worst possible thing, 212 00:11:37,285 --> 00:11:41,966 Speaker 1: but so often it is the thing that can help. 213 00:11:42,686 --> 00:11:45,686 Speaker 1: So you feel pregnant. I imagine that there was a 214 00:11:45,726 --> 00:11:47,286 Speaker 1: bit of reluctance there for you. 215 00:11:48,045 --> 00:11:52,566 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the big side effect of having a 216 00:11:52,606 --> 00:11:54,926 Speaker 4: loss at any point sort of in your journey is 217 00:11:54,966 --> 00:11:59,046 Speaker 4: it does color your celebration of any of the next 218 00:11:59,566 --> 00:12:02,686 Speaker 4: pregnancies that you may be lucky enough to have, And 219 00:12:02,766 --> 00:12:04,405 Speaker 4: in a way I was a bit sad about that, 220 00:12:04,766 --> 00:12:07,206 Speaker 4: but in a way I also was glad because the 221 00:12:07,246 --> 00:12:10,486 Speaker 4: statistics are that one in four pregnancies end in loss, 222 00:12:10,606 --> 00:12:13,766 Speaker 4: and maybe if I had known that the first time, 223 00:12:13,806 --> 00:12:16,566 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have been so crushed. Sometimes it's better to 224 00:12:16,606 --> 00:12:19,526 Speaker 4: know the statistics and maybe not celebrate so early so 225 00:12:19,566 --> 00:12:22,366 Speaker 4: it doesn't crush you so hard and you can get 226 00:12:22,405 --> 00:12:24,486 Speaker 4: on with it a little bit more easily because you're like, oh, look, 227 00:12:24,526 --> 00:12:26,766 Speaker 4: this just happens, rather than thinking it's the end of 228 00:12:26,806 --> 00:12:28,686 Speaker 4: the world. You just know you try again and it 229 00:12:28,726 --> 00:12:31,526 Speaker 4: can happen for you. So maybe it was good. I'm 230 00:12:31,526 --> 00:12:34,086 Speaker 4: not sure, but I did sort of hold back that 231 00:12:34,126 --> 00:12:39,406 Speaker 4: celebration until that twelve week series of scans that do 232 00:12:39,526 --> 00:12:43,405 Speaker 4: feel a bit like a milestone of being safer. And 233 00:12:43,446 --> 00:12:48,366 Speaker 4: then I waited another six weeks before we actually told anyone, 234 00:12:48,405 --> 00:12:52,286 Speaker 4: so I was eighteen weeks before we really allowed ourselves 235 00:12:52,285 --> 00:12:54,926 Speaker 4: to think, oh my gosh, this is a real baby, 236 00:12:55,846 --> 00:12:59,285 Speaker 4: this is happening. And I wasn't showing until then either, 237 00:12:59,285 --> 00:13:01,846 Speaker 4: so I lived in this weird duality of I'm really 238 00:13:01,886 --> 00:13:05,206 Speaker 4: excited that we've even gotten this far, but don't start 239 00:13:05,206 --> 00:13:07,165 Speaker 4: buying things yet. That was where my brain was. 240 00:13:07,646 --> 00:13:10,366 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean as a chronic over a share of myself. 241 00:13:10,446 --> 00:13:12,165 Speaker 1: I don't know how you held it in, because I 242 00:13:12,206 --> 00:13:15,086 Speaker 1: think I told everyone so quick with both of my kids, 243 00:13:15,126 --> 00:13:15,486 Speaker 1: because I. 244 00:13:15,446 --> 00:13:16,846 Speaker 2: Was just like, I can't hold it in. 245 00:13:16,966 --> 00:13:19,526 Speaker 1: Also, I feel like crap, and I need to explain 246 00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:22,486 Speaker 1: why I'm eating saka tars at seven o'clock in the morning. 247 00:13:22,726 --> 00:13:23,526 Speaker 2: I imagine that was. 248 00:13:23,526 --> 00:13:26,566 Speaker 1: Sort of just part of your process, and so I imagine 249 00:13:26,446 --> 00:13:27,686 Speaker 1: everyone was really thrilled for you. 250 00:13:27,806 --> 00:13:29,605 Speaker 2: How did you feel throughout your pregnancy. 251 00:13:30,405 --> 00:13:35,326 Speaker 4: I loved it. I know it's really not enjoyable for 252 00:13:35,366 --> 00:13:38,406 Speaker 4: a lot of women. It is incredibly hard on the body. 253 00:13:38,486 --> 00:13:41,206 Speaker 4: I think the stats are something like you're running five 254 00:13:41,285 --> 00:13:44,086 Speaker 4: marathons a week or whatever. It is like it's an 255 00:13:44,246 --> 00:13:47,806 Speaker 4: enormous undertaking for your body and your mind. But I 256 00:13:47,846 --> 00:13:51,206 Speaker 4: was very lucky that I had nausea quite intensely for 257 00:13:51,246 --> 00:13:56,526 Speaker 4: the first I think maybe fifteen weeks. I wasn't throwing up, 258 00:13:56,526 --> 00:13:58,486 Speaker 4: but I was I almost wish that I was, because 259 00:13:58,526 --> 00:14:02,326 Speaker 4: it was it would just sit right up here all 260 00:14:02,446 --> 00:14:06,806 Speaker 4: day long. It was just, oh yeah, I was quite debilitating. 261 00:14:06,886 --> 00:14:09,966 Speaker 4: But once I got to that fifteen week, market sort 262 00:14:09,966 --> 00:14:13,206 Speaker 4: of faded away, and then I just enjoyed the miracle 263 00:14:13,526 --> 00:14:17,685 Speaker 4: of getting boobs, you know, like my body just doing 264 00:14:17,726 --> 00:14:24,406 Speaker 4: its thing. I couldn't. I've always had quite a sort 265 00:14:24,406 --> 00:14:26,526 Speaker 4: of I've always called it my ten year old boy body. 266 00:14:26,566 --> 00:14:28,966 Speaker 4: I'm just kind of flat and straight up and down. 267 00:14:29,046 --> 00:14:33,046 Speaker 4: I've never really had curves. And I felt really feminine, 268 00:14:33,086 --> 00:14:35,246 Speaker 4: like I was just this beautiful coming into my own 269 00:14:35,326 --> 00:14:38,926 Speaker 4: of it's my body's doing it, it's growing this human 270 00:14:39,206 --> 00:14:42,766 Speaker 4: and I loved every minute of it. I was, And 271 00:14:43,046 --> 00:14:46,366 Speaker 4: maybe because I knew how close we'd come to not 272 00:14:46,486 --> 00:14:48,926 Speaker 4: having that first one, perhaps it allowed me to be 273 00:14:49,366 --> 00:14:52,566 Speaker 4: a bit more grateful. Every time i'd face a complaint, 274 00:14:52,686 --> 00:14:55,566 Speaker 4: the gratitude would just come straight in. But we made 275 00:14:55,606 --> 00:14:57,686 Speaker 4: it this far, And how lucky am I to feel this? 276 00:14:57,846 --> 00:15:00,326 Speaker 4: I think maybe that was the flip side of not 277 00:15:00,486 --> 00:15:03,326 Speaker 4: enjoying the first few weeks because I was too nervous. 278 00:15:04,126 --> 00:15:06,446 Speaker 4: The good part was that then every other week felt 279 00:15:06,526 --> 00:15:09,806 Speaker 4: like such a gift, So I loved every minute. 280 00:15:10,046 --> 00:15:12,886 Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier on that you felt like it was 281 00:15:13,686 --> 00:15:15,845 Speaker 1: meant to be this pregnancy. 282 00:15:16,526 --> 00:15:18,126 Speaker 2: Do you want to talk a little bit more about that. 283 00:15:18,766 --> 00:15:22,366 Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds so woo woo. And I think to 284 00:15:22,446 --> 00:15:24,926 Speaker 4: anyone who is still in that chapter where they might 285 00:15:24,926 --> 00:15:27,246 Speaker 4: have stuff at a loss or not even fallen pregnant 286 00:15:27,326 --> 00:15:31,606 Speaker 4: yet and still haven't been able to have their rainbow baby, 287 00:15:31,646 --> 00:15:35,406 Speaker 4: it sounds so silly and frustrating. But I truly believe 288 00:15:35,566 --> 00:15:38,126 Speaker 4: that the first pregnancy didn't work out for us because 289 00:15:38,566 --> 00:15:41,766 Speaker 4: it was always Teddy. He wasn't ready. But the minute 290 00:15:41,806 --> 00:15:44,446 Speaker 4: he was born, I was like, this is the baby 291 00:15:44,486 --> 00:15:47,406 Speaker 4: who wanted to be born into our family, and he 292 00:15:47,486 --> 00:15:50,006 Speaker 4: just wasn't ready last time. And there are so many 293 00:15:50,046 --> 00:15:53,326 Speaker 4: reasons I think that. I think my brother and I 294 00:15:53,486 --> 00:15:57,486 Speaker 4: we aren't biologically related. We came from different biological families, 295 00:15:57,526 --> 00:16:00,726 Speaker 4: adopted into the same family four years apart. We're born 296 00:16:00,766 --> 00:16:04,366 Speaker 4: on the same day, like we were meant to be siblings, 297 00:16:04,526 --> 00:16:06,526 Speaker 4: even if we weren't born into that family. And I 298 00:16:06,526 --> 00:16:08,286 Speaker 4: think Teddy was meant to be in our family, and 299 00:16:08,326 --> 00:16:11,166 Speaker 4: he was born three days before our birthday, Like there 300 00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:13,446 Speaker 4: are so many weird things that make me think it 301 00:16:13,446 --> 00:16:17,486 Speaker 4: was all meant to happen, and he was actually born 302 00:16:17,526 --> 00:16:21,806 Speaker 4: a week early, and he'd been originally due, so forty 303 00:16:21,846 --> 00:16:23,486 Speaker 4: weeks is kind of the due day that people give you. 304 00:16:24,246 --> 00:16:26,966 Speaker 4: He was breach for most of the pregnancy, and so 305 00:16:27,086 --> 00:16:29,406 Speaker 4: we had ended up scheduling a C section for thirty 306 00:16:29,486 --> 00:16:32,886 Speaker 4: nine weeks, and I'd made my peace with that. At 307 00:16:32,926 --> 00:16:36,526 Speaker 4: thirty eight weeks, on the dot, I had my check up, 308 00:16:36,566 --> 00:16:40,046 Speaker 4: so I was already in the hospital. My foot stepped 309 00:16:40,086 --> 00:16:42,886 Speaker 4: out onto the concrete of the car park at Cabrini 310 00:16:43,286 --> 00:16:46,366 Speaker 4: and my waters broke spontaneously. He was like, I am ready, 311 00:16:46,886 --> 00:16:49,326 Speaker 4: everyone's here. We might as well just do this. 312 00:16:49,766 --> 00:16:52,286 Speaker 2: And so your mom actually happened to be at the hospital, 313 00:16:52,326 --> 00:16:53,726 Speaker 2: didn't she yes. 314 00:16:54,166 --> 00:16:58,486 Speaker 4: In the weirdest sequence of events, I called her and 315 00:16:58,486 --> 00:17:00,726 Speaker 4: I knew she had an appointment at the hospital earlier 316 00:17:00,766 --> 00:17:03,606 Speaker 4: that day, but it was meant to be like two 317 00:17:03,686 --> 00:17:05,326 Speaker 4: hours before. So I called her and said, you're going 318 00:17:05,366 --> 00:17:07,725 Speaker 4: to have to come back. My waters have just broken, 319 00:17:08,246 --> 00:17:12,526 Speaker 4: and she said my appointment had been delayed. I'm actually 320 00:17:12,806 --> 00:17:15,406 Speaker 4: still here like at that time. 321 00:17:15,326 --> 00:17:16,926 Speaker 2: So she was there with you already. 322 00:17:17,166 --> 00:17:19,326 Speaker 4: She was already there, and she was already on the 323 00:17:19,366 --> 00:17:22,206 Speaker 4: same floor, and it was just all meant to be, 324 00:17:22,366 --> 00:17:25,006 Speaker 4: Like it was the wildest thing. I truly believe the 325 00:17:25,126 --> 00:17:28,446 Speaker 4: universe has a weird way to align the stars and 326 00:17:29,126 --> 00:17:31,286 Speaker 4: like that's it. Teddy was just like, oh, well, everyone's here, 327 00:17:31,366 --> 00:17:35,646 Speaker 4: might as well just arrive today coming up. It was 328 00:17:35,726 --> 00:17:40,686 Speaker 4: incredibly profound to realize that Teddy was my first blood 329 00:17:40,686 --> 00:17:43,566 Speaker 4: relative ever that I have met. I didn't even think 330 00:17:43,566 --> 00:17:45,526 Speaker 4: about it until someone else said it to me, like 331 00:17:45,646 --> 00:17:48,326 Speaker 4: late in the pregnancy, and I was like, really, what. 332 00:17:50,646 --> 00:17:54,326 Speaker 1: So, Sarah, your water's break, You're stepping onto the pavement. 333 00:17:55,126 --> 00:17:56,166 Speaker 2: What happened next? 334 00:17:56,566 --> 00:18:00,726 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, It's just so funny to think how 335 00:18:00,966 --> 00:18:04,606 Speaker 4: unprepared I was to become a mum that day. I 336 00:18:04,646 --> 00:18:07,926 Speaker 4: thought it was a standard appointment. I didn't take a handbag, 337 00:18:08,286 --> 00:18:12,926 Speaker 4: so I didn't even have like tissues to wipe the 338 00:18:12,966 --> 00:18:16,886 Speaker 4: water that was gushing out of my tiny shorts. Like 339 00:18:16,966 --> 00:18:21,286 Speaker 4: there was no covering what was going on. So Nick 340 00:18:21,526 --> 00:18:24,566 Speaker 4: rushed apart the car and we hobbled leaking all the 341 00:18:24,606 --> 00:18:29,006 Speaker 4: way through the hospital and called my ob and said, look, 342 00:18:29,006 --> 00:18:31,606 Speaker 4: I'm coming to my appointment, but should I just meet 343 00:18:31,606 --> 00:18:33,286 Speaker 4: you straight at the birth wall? And she said, yeah, 344 00:18:33,326 --> 00:18:36,166 Speaker 4: don't even stop by here, just go straight there. So 345 00:18:36,246 --> 00:18:40,246 Speaker 4: I literally was holding my pants together and it was, 346 00:18:40,566 --> 00:18:42,086 Speaker 4: you know, at least in the hospital. It wasn't the 347 00:18:42,126 --> 00:18:45,926 Speaker 4: weirdest thing I've ever seen. But I think one of 348 00:18:45,966 --> 00:18:49,086 Speaker 4: the really great things is I never was sad that 349 00:18:49,166 --> 00:18:53,566 Speaker 4: I didn't get to have a vaginal birth, but I 350 00:18:53,606 --> 00:18:56,366 Speaker 4: am glad that I got to experience contractions for a 351 00:18:56,366 --> 00:19:02,086 Speaker 4: little while. So I was moving quite slowly, and I 352 00:19:02,126 --> 00:19:04,126 Speaker 4: think it was about one o'clock. Yet it was one 353 00:19:04,126 --> 00:19:07,046 Speaker 4: o'clock when my waters broke, and they decided to just 354 00:19:07,126 --> 00:19:10,526 Speaker 4: let my body do its thing until six. It was 355 00:19:10,526 --> 00:19:12,846 Speaker 4: scheduled for six. I think that's when the anethetist and 356 00:19:12,886 --> 00:19:14,965 Speaker 4: everyone could kind of come at six, and they considered 357 00:19:15,006 --> 00:19:19,286 Speaker 4: that I would be okay until then, and Mum had 358 00:19:19,286 --> 00:19:21,206 Speaker 4: made her way to the room. Nick was in the room. 359 00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:25,366 Speaker 4: We'd called my Duela, who arrived very shortly after, and 360 00:19:25,886 --> 00:19:29,006 Speaker 4: we were just in one of the birthing suites, letting 361 00:19:29,046 --> 00:19:33,006 Speaker 4: my body slowly kind of figure itself out, and knowing 362 00:19:33,046 --> 00:19:35,406 Speaker 4: that I think a strange thing about a sea section 363 00:19:35,486 --> 00:19:37,326 Speaker 4: is even if it is an emergency sea section that 364 00:19:37,406 --> 00:19:39,406 Speaker 4: in earlier in the day, I didn't know was happening 365 00:19:39,766 --> 00:19:42,686 Speaker 4: for that five hours. I knew that at six o'clock 366 00:19:43,166 --> 00:19:45,246 Speaker 4: I would be a mum, and so it was just 367 00:19:45,286 --> 00:19:50,486 Speaker 4: this strange limbo of time where I wasn't yet there, 368 00:19:50,526 --> 00:19:52,406 Speaker 4: but I knew it was coming, and I wasn't at 369 00:19:52,406 --> 00:19:57,606 Speaker 4: home either, and we just sat and I don't even 370 00:19:57,646 --> 00:19:59,486 Speaker 4: know if we spoke that much. I mean, Nick was 371 00:19:59,526 --> 00:20:02,006 Speaker 4: pacing up and down. I've never seen him that nervous, 372 00:20:02,526 --> 00:20:05,606 Speaker 4: excited but nervous, and I was just sort of the 373 00:20:05,606 --> 00:20:09,486 Speaker 4: They were getting spicier and I was getting less comfortable sitting. 374 00:20:10,406 --> 00:20:14,726 Speaker 4: They never got really really intense, but I could imagine 375 00:20:14,806 --> 00:20:16,566 Speaker 4: I at least know what the feeling's like now. I 376 00:20:16,606 --> 00:20:19,926 Speaker 4: was like, oh, okay, this is I'm glad this didn't 377 00:20:19,926 --> 00:20:22,846 Speaker 4: get too much worse, but I know what it is. 378 00:20:22,886 --> 00:20:26,205 Speaker 4: So I feel like I've ticked at least understanding a 379 00:20:26,246 --> 00:20:28,446 Speaker 4: little bit what was going on. And then my ob 380 00:20:28,686 --> 00:20:31,046 Speaker 4: came in and she's got these multi colored gum boots on, 381 00:20:31,086 --> 00:20:33,926 Speaker 4: and I was like, gum boots, Why why do you 382 00:20:34,006 --> 00:20:37,486 Speaker 4: need those? What's going to be happening at six o'clock 383 00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:41,326 Speaker 4: that you need gum boots for? And she chatted us 384 00:20:41,486 --> 00:20:46,246 Speaker 4: through everything, and just suddenly it was six and we 385 00:20:46,246 --> 00:20:47,406 Speaker 4: were going in and. 386 00:20:48,806 --> 00:20:49,566 Speaker 2: It was wild. 387 00:20:49,966 --> 00:20:50,646 Speaker 5: It was wild. 388 00:20:50,806 --> 00:20:53,726 Speaker 4: I still kind of can't really believe it happened that way. 389 00:20:54,686 --> 00:20:56,406 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that you were like I kind 390 00:20:56,446 --> 00:20:59,286 Speaker 1: of liked the feeling of contractions because when mine first 391 00:20:59,366 --> 00:21:01,286 Speaker 1: started with both of mine, I was. 392 00:21:01,206 --> 00:21:05,446 Speaker 2: Like, oh okay, yeah, oh oh oh, here we go. 393 00:21:05,486 --> 00:21:07,766 Speaker 1: Oh and you're like I got this, I got this, 394 00:21:07,886 --> 00:21:10,686 Speaker 1: and they're like, I do not got this. I do 395 00:21:10,806 --> 00:21:15,166 Speaker 1: not got this. It just the intensity, obviously depending on 396 00:21:15,286 --> 00:21:18,606 Speaker 1: how you're giving birth, but I'm with you, I wanted 397 00:21:18,646 --> 00:21:20,526 Speaker 1: to experience that. 398 00:21:21,086 --> 00:21:24,086 Speaker 4: Yeah, I did. Towards the very end, like the last hour, 399 00:21:24,166 --> 00:21:28,726 Speaker 4: I was glad that there was an out booked already, 400 00:21:28,926 --> 00:21:32,806 Speaker 4: Like I was like, okay, okay, ah, that's not the 401 00:21:32,846 --> 00:21:36,406 Speaker 4: comfiest thing I've ever felt, and what time at six o'clock? 402 00:21:36,406 --> 00:21:39,806 Speaker 4: When is it coming? And when can we begin? But 403 00:21:40,086 --> 00:21:43,725 Speaker 4: it was really shocking to me also that like we 404 00:21:43,766 --> 00:21:46,446 Speaker 4: went in at six and then by six' TEN i 405 00:21:46,486 --> 00:21:49,726 Speaker 4: was a, Mom like it's very, fast and so there 406 00:21:49,766 --> 00:21:54,166 Speaker 4: really isn't that labor gives you this you know. TIME i, 407 00:21:54,206 --> 00:21:57,246 Speaker 4: mean some people get birth vaginally very, quickly but it 408 00:21:57,406 --> 00:21:59,766 Speaker 4: just was so rapid that he was not here and 409 00:21:59,806 --> 00:22:01,406 Speaker 4: then he was, here and THEN i was a, mum 410 00:22:01,486 --> 00:22:04,326 Speaker 4: and then it was recovery and then onwards with this 411 00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:06,486 Speaker 4: whole next chapter right. Away it was very. 412 00:22:06,566 --> 00:22:09,006 Speaker 1: Rapid you obviously had a Plan cesarian because he was 413 00:22:09,046 --> 00:22:10,846 Speaker 1: footling breached, Correct. 414 00:22:10,886 --> 00:22:13,166 Speaker 4: Yes so he was both ways that he was not 415 00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:16,086 Speaker 4: meant to. Be and we did all the things like 416 00:22:16,446 --> 00:22:21,526 Speaker 4: all the mocks of burning incense on the toe and love, 417 00:22:21,566 --> 00:22:22,046 Speaker 4: it love. 418 00:22:22,086 --> 00:22:24,286 Speaker 1: It but sometimes they just don't want to. Move their too, 419 00:22:24,326 --> 00:22:26,926 Speaker 1: Comfy so you go in for your. Caesar was your 420 00:22:26,966 --> 00:22:27,566 Speaker 1: mom there with? 421 00:22:27,606 --> 00:22:27,766 Speaker 6: You? 422 00:22:28,326 --> 00:22:32,725 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah so she couldn't come. IN i think there 423 00:22:32,766 --> 00:22:35,166 Speaker 4: could be one person in with, me And nick had 424 00:22:35,286 --> 00:22:39,566 Speaker 4: obviously wanted to be, there but Also mum's quite squeamish 425 00:22:39,766 --> 00:22:43,646 Speaker 4: and an absolute over the top end path like she 426 00:22:43,686 --> 00:22:47,726 Speaker 4: could not watch me in anything close to. PAIN i 427 00:22:47,766 --> 00:22:50,566 Speaker 4: think she was happy to just be. Around so she was, 428 00:22:50,606 --> 00:22:53,725 Speaker 4: there but she was waiting back in the. Ward she 429 00:22:53,846 --> 00:22:57,406 Speaker 4: was just elated at the fact that her grandchild was, 430 00:22:57,526 --> 00:23:00,646 Speaker 4: arriving but also because she had never had a. Pregnancy 431 00:23:00,766 --> 00:23:03,446 Speaker 4: AND i forget a lot of the time we look completely. 432 00:23:03,486 --> 00:23:06,086 Speaker 4: Different i'm fully Blown asian and She's, caucasian but we 433 00:23:06,206 --> 00:23:10,566 Speaker 4: often forget that there's NO dna between, us and SO 434 00:23:10,606 --> 00:23:13,486 Speaker 4: i forgot she'd never been. Pregnant she'd never had a, 435 00:23:13,606 --> 00:23:16,526 Speaker 4: childbirth she'd never been to an, ultrasound and so we 436 00:23:16,566 --> 00:23:18,646 Speaker 4: took her to. Everything but also she'd never been in 437 00:23:18,686 --> 00:23:22,046 Speaker 4: a birthing, ward and she'd never known about the difference 438 00:23:22,086 --> 00:23:25,166 Speaker 4: between a natural labor or a vaginal birth and A c. 439 00:23:25,366 --> 00:23:28,286 Speaker 4: Section she didn't know about, epidurals because why would you 440 00:23:28,446 --> 00:23:31,566 Speaker 4: if you had never done it or had never you, 441 00:23:31,566 --> 00:23:35,166 Speaker 4: know my, auntie her sister also didn't have, children so 442 00:23:35,166 --> 00:23:37,246 Speaker 4: she'd never been around, it so that or that she 443 00:23:38,246 --> 00:23:41,926 Speaker 4: had for the process was like her first time as, 444 00:23:41,966 --> 00:23:44,326 Speaker 4: well and it was just so special to be able 445 00:23:44,366 --> 00:23:47,566 Speaker 4: to share it, all even. Breastfeeding she's, Like i've never seen, 446 00:23:47,606 --> 00:23:52,126 Speaker 4: This and in her, era you didn't share probably as 447 00:23:52,246 --> 00:23:55,286 Speaker 4: much intimate detail about those parts of your lives with other, 448 00:23:55,326 --> 00:23:57,766 Speaker 4: women so she hadn't even seen it really in her friends, 449 00:23:57,806 --> 00:24:01,726 Speaker 4: Either and it was really beautiful for her to be 450 00:24:01,886 --> 00:24:04,046 Speaker 4: there WHEN i got back out of surgery and she 451 00:24:04,126 --> 00:24:05,486 Speaker 4: was waiting there to meet her. 452 00:24:05,566 --> 00:24:09,126 Speaker 1: Grandson oh my, GOSH i feel like we've completely forgotten 453 00:24:09,166 --> 00:24:13,566 Speaker 1: About nick, here but you, Know nick's there with. You 454 00:24:14,006 --> 00:24:17,406 Speaker 1: they Bring teddy out and they put him straight onto your. 455 00:24:17,486 --> 00:24:21,246 Speaker 1: Chest tell me about that. Moment between, You nick And 456 00:24:21,366 --> 00:24:22,366 Speaker 1: teddy for the first. 457 00:24:22,366 --> 00:24:32,286 Speaker 4: Time it was so surreal and so unbelievably. SPECIAL i 458 00:24:32,406 --> 00:24:34,926 Speaker 4: still don't really have words for. It AND i think 459 00:24:35,726 --> 00:24:38,126 Speaker 4: one of the Things i'm so grateful for is THAT 460 00:24:38,726 --> 00:24:40,766 Speaker 4: i never felt disappointed THAT i was having A c. 461 00:24:40,926 --> 00:24:43,006 Speaker 4: SECTION i think a lot of people put a lot 462 00:24:43,046 --> 00:24:47,326 Speaker 4: of pressure on themselves to have a natural. BIRTH i, 463 00:24:47,366 --> 00:24:49,166 Speaker 4: mean even the fact that we call it a natural 464 00:24:49,206 --> 00:24:52,526 Speaker 4: birth and that any other kind of birth isn't. NATURAL 465 00:24:52,606 --> 00:24:53,166 Speaker 4: i THINK. 466 00:24:53,006 --> 00:24:55,686 Speaker 1: I REFUSE i say vaginal OR i say ses, AREA 467 00:24:55,926 --> 00:24:57,965 Speaker 1: i refuse to use the word natural. 468 00:24:58,006 --> 00:25:01,766 Speaker 4: Birth, Yeah AND i think there is a bit of you, 469 00:25:01,806 --> 00:25:04,686 Speaker 4: know there's so many there's so many pressures and expectations 470 00:25:04,726 --> 00:25:08,606 Speaker 4: and things around birth and parenting and, everything AND i 471 00:25:08,646 --> 00:25:10,526 Speaker 4: think the method of your birth is one of. Them 472 00:25:10,566 --> 00:25:12,166 Speaker 4: people do put a lot of pressure on themselves to 473 00:25:12,166 --> 00:25:15,086 Speaker 4: have a vaginal birth and can feel disappointed if they 474 00:25:15,086 --> 00:25:17,886 Speaker 4: don't get. To BUT i had such an Incredible obe 475 00:25:18,086 --> 00:25:21,086 Speaker 4: who was very much you, know breach is just a 476 00:25:21,126 --> 00:25:25,246 Speaker 4: really really difficult medical situation and the ultimate result that 477 00:25:25,286 --> 00:25:27,726 Speaker 4: you want is a healthy. Baby but she also really 478 00:25:27,806 --> 00:25:31,366 Speaker 4: tried to make it feel as non clinical as she, 479 00:25:31,486 --> 00:25:35,206 Speaker 4: could and so that moment to, me WAS i became 480 00:25:35,246 --> 00:25:39,766 Speaker 4: a mother in that. Moment it was so nick AND 481 00:25:39,766 --> 00:25:43,286 Speaker 4: i didn't even. Cry we both just our brains were just, 482 00:25:43,406 --> 00:25:47,086 Speaker 4: like we made this tiny human who's gone from this 483 00:25:47,166 --> 00:25:50,686 Speaker 4: thing we can only see through scans to a human 484 00:25:50,926 --> 00:25:53,446 Speaker 4: that's breathing and looking at. Us and it was just 485 00:25:53,566 --> 00:25:57,486 Speaker 4: so so mind, blowing world. SHUDDERING i would, say. 486 00:25:57,726 --> 00:26:01,166 Speaker 1: Did it mean anything different to you for it to 487 00:26:01,246 --> 00:26:07,726 Speaker 1: be biologically your? Child did that have any impact one 488 00:26:07,726 --> 00:26:08,166 Speaker 1: way or? 489 00:26:08,206 --> 00:26:15,486 Speaker 4: Another that's an amazing, question AND i THOUGHT i was 490 00:26:15,486 --> 00:26:19,366 Speaker 4: actually prepared that it. MIGHT i have spent sort of 491 00:26:19,406 --> 00:26:24,646 Speaker 4: my whole life explaining to people why my adoption hasn't 492 00:26:24,686 --> 00:26:27,926 Speaker 4: been traumatic and hasn't given me an identity, crisis and 493 00:26:27,966 --> 00:26:32,846 Speaker 4: why my family is CLOSER i think than so many 494 00:26:32,886 --> 00:26:36,006 Speaker 4: FAMILIES i know, biologically AND i wondered if that might, 495 00:26:36,126 --> 00:26:38,926 Speaker 4: change or at least be shifted a little bit WHEN 496 00:26:38,966 --> 00:26:42,166 Speaker 4: i did go through this profound experience of SHARING dna 497 00:26:42,206 --> 00:26:44,166 Speaker 4: with a person THAT i had literally grown inside my. 498 00:26:44,206 --> 00:26:50,966 Speaker 4: Body and on the one, level it was incredibly profound 499 00:26:51,646 --> 00:26:54,926 Speaker 4: to realize That teddy was my first blood relative ever 500 00:26:55,166 --> 00:26:56,966 Speaker 4: THAT i have. MET i didn't even think about it 501 00:26:57,046 --> 00:26:59,166 Speaker 4: until someone else said it to me like late in the, 502 00:26:59,206 --> 00:27:03,286 Speaker 4: pregnancy AND i was, like really. What but at the same, 503 00:27:03,366 --> 00:27:05,686 Speaker 4: TIME i think the beautiful thing is it? All so 504 00:27:06,686 --> 00:27:10,686 Speaker 4: is the least profound part of, it because watching him 505 00:27:10,806 --> 00:27:13,886 Speaker 4: with my mum and him with my, brother and the 506 00:27:13,926 --> 00:27:16,526 Speaker 4: fact that the person he looked the most like for 507 00:27:16,566 --> 00:27:19,326 Speaker 4: the first couple of months was my, brother who shares 508 00:27:19,526 --> 00:27:25,166 Speaker 4: NO dna with him. Whatsoever it's been also not important 509 00:27:25,206 --> 00:27:27,846 Speaker 4: at all that they're not biologically. Related AND i don't 510 00:27:27,886 --> 00:27:30,806 Speaker 4: THINK i would love him IF i had not been 511 00:27:30,846 --> 00:27:32,806 Speaker 4: through the, pregnancy but they had put him on my 512 00:27:32,926 --> 00:27:36,966 Speaker 4: chest OR i got told. Now for, example this is 513 00:27:37,006 --> 00:27:38,446 Speaker 4: such a strange thing to, say but there's been a 514 00:27:38,446 --> 00:27:40,526 Speaker 4: lot in the media about mix ups at the hospital 515 00:27:40,566 --> 00:27:42,686 Speaker 4: or mix ups WITH. Ivf if you told me now 516 00:27:42,686 --> 00:27:46,446 Speaker 4: that he wasn't our genetic, material it would change nothing 517 00:27:46,766 --> 00:27:49,526 Speaker 4: to me about how MUCH i love, him and it 518 00:27:49,566 --> 00:27:52,606 Speaker 4: would change nothing about him being my. Son he's my. 519 00:27:52,646 --> 00:27:54,686 Speaker 4: Son it's so beautiful to look at him and, go 520 00:27:54,806 --> 00:27:56,686 Speaker 4: you are the product Of nick AND i and our, 521 00:27:56,726 --> 00:27:59,566 Speaker 4: love and we've been on our journey and OUR dna 522 00:27:59,606 --> 00:28:01,486 Speaker 4: and it will be fascinating to see what comes out 523 00:28:01,806 --> 00:28:04,006 Speaker 4: as our. Features but that's not WHY i love. Him 524 00:28:04,326 --> 00:28:07,086 Speaker 4: that's not why it's. Special SO i don't really have 525 00:28:07,166 --> 00:28:09,006 Speaker 4: words to describe, it BUT i would say it's so 526 00:28:09,286 --> 00:28:11,966 Speaker 4: profound and also incidental at the same. 527 00:28:11,966 --> 00:28:15,166 Speaker 1: Time, yeah tell me a little bit about the recovery 528 00:28:15,206 --> 00:28:16,126 Speaker 1: from the sea. 529 00:28:16,166 --> 00:28:20,286 Speaker 4: SECTION i was pleasantly. SURPRISED i was really nervous about. 530 00:28:20,286 --> 00:28:22,206 Speaker 4: IT i knew that that was one of the things 531 00:28:22,246 --> 00:28:25,046 Speaker 4: that's a bit different with A c section. Delivery BUT 532 00:28:26,246 --> 00:28:28,966 Speaker 4: i was walking like we were in the hospital for five, 533 00:28:29,046 --> 00:28:30,725 Speaker 4: days and then we went home AND i was up 534 00:28:30,766 --> 00:28:35,246 Speaker 4: and about walking Carrying teddy very. Quickly my sky's healed really. 535 00:28:35,286 --> 00:28:38,366 Speaker 4: Well it's been a really positive. Experience so, anyone if 536 00:28:38,886 --> 00:28:40,846 Speaker 4: you are having A c section and you're a little bit, 537 00:28:40,886 --> 00:28:43,246 Speaker 4: nervous it can be a really beautiful birth and a 538 00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:43,926 Speaker 4: really positive. 539 00:28:43,926 --> 00:28:47,566 Speaker 1: Recovery So teddy's just over one. Now i'm sure he's 540 00:28:47,726 --> 00:28:50,366 Speaker 1: running you off your. Feet is he walking At not? 541 00:28:50,526 --> 00:28:54,766 Speaker 4: Quite but he is just in. Everything our chapter of 542 00:28:54,806 --> 00:28:56,926 Speaker 4: being able to go to cafes is, over and. RIP 543 00:28:57,206 --> 00:28:57,486 Speaker 4: i am. 544 00:28:57,566 --> 00:29:01,166 Speaker 1: Sad thank you so much for telling your story and 545 00:29:01,206 --> 00:29:05,086 Speaker 1: being so, candid. Fascinating you know the way that it came, 546 00:29:05,126 --> 00:29:10,886 Speaker 1: about and not just the birth, itself but your feelings 547 00:29:10,926 --> 00:29:13,846 Speaker 1: on the miscarriage and. Adoption so thank you so much 548 00:29:13,926 --> 00:29:15,366 Speaker 1: for sharing your story with. 549 00:29:15,446 --> 00:29:17,166 Speaker 4: Us now thank you for having. 550 00:29:17,246 --> 00:29:21,926 Speaker 2: ME i wanted to know a little bit more about 551 00:29:21,926 --> 00:29:24,966 Speaker 2: the silence that we have around, miscarriage SO i enlisted 552 00:29:25,006 --> 00:29:28,966 Speaker 2: the help of our expert obstetrician and, gynocologist Doctor Bronwin, 553 00:29:29,006 --> 00:29:32,406 Speaker 2: devine to ask what do women need to know about? 554 00:29:32,526 --> 00:29:37,566 Speaker 6: Miscarriage the commonest reason for miscarrying is having a pregnancy 555 00:29:37,606 --> 00:29:40,726 Speaker 6: where the chromosome number is just not write and you 556 00:29:40,806 --> 00:29:43,606 Speaker 6: get to about six or seven weeks to, station and 557 00:29:44,086 --> 00:29:49,326 Speaker 6: the whole, system the whole complex maternal fetal placential, system 558 00:29:49,406 --> 00:29:53,686 Speaker 6: realizes that it's not right and so takes its course 559 00:29:53,966 --> 00:29:58,646 Speaker 6: and the pregnancy finishes and Miscarriages and there's absolutely nothing 560 00:29:58,686 --> 00:30:01,126 Speaker 6: that they did or didn't do to make that. Happen 561 00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:05,366 Speaker 6: it's just it was inherent within the very conception of 562 00:30:05,686 --> 00:30:08,806 Speaker 6: pregnancy that it was only ever going to last to 563 00:30:08,886 --> 00:30:12,526 Speaker 6: six or seven. Weeks but there still is huge perception 564 00:30:12,646 --> 00:30:14,806 Speaker 6: out there that if you, miscarried it was because you 565 00:30:15,046 --> 00:30:17,206 Speaker 6: ate something that you shouldn't, have or you did something 566 00:30:17,206 --> 00:30:19,726 Speaker 6: that you shouldn't, have or you worked too, hard or you, 567 00:30:19,766 --> 00:30:24,366 Speaker 6: know you didn't take your, pregnancy multivitamin, properly or something 568 00:30:24,406 --> 00:30:27,686 Speaker 6: that you. Did there's always this, guilt, guilt, guilt what 569 00:30:27,766 --> 00:30:30,526 Speaker 6: HAVE i done to make this. Happen we still as 570 00:30:30,566 --> 00:30:33,766 Speaker 6: a society don't deal with miscarriage very. Well it is 571 00:30:34,006 --> 00:30:39,246 Speaker 6: absolutely incredibly, common but people don't necessarily want to talk about. 572 00:30:39,246 --> 00:30:41,126 Speaker 6: It AND i think one of the things that sort 573 00:30:41,166 --> 00:30:46,286 Speaker 6: of made us culturally not let people know around us 574 00:30:46,326 --> 00:30:49,606 Speaker 6: that we're pregnant until we've had our twelve week scan 575 00:30:49,726 --> 00:30:52,006 Speaker 6: and the scans come back and says the pregnancy is 576 00:30:52,046 --> 00:30:56,286 Speaker 6: progressive and everything looks, good and the chromosome abnormality screening 577 00:30:56,326 --> 00:30:59,206 Speaker 6: that we do has come back low, risk and then 578 00:30:59,246 --> 00:31:02,606 Speaker 6: you can actually say to people we're expecting a. Baby 579 00:31:02,646 --> 00:31:05,926 Speaker 6: but what that means is that people often if they do, 580 00:31:06,006 --> 00:31:09,766 Speaker 6: miscarry do that in, silence or do that with not 581 00:31:10,526 --> 00:31:13,606 Speaker 6: the support of their crew around. Them you, know they 582 00:31:13,606 --> 00:31:17,246 Speaker 6: haven't necessarily told their, parents or they haven't told you, 583 00:31:17,286 --> 00:31:19,686 Speaker 6: know their, sister or they haven't told their best friend 584 00:31:19,806 --> 00:31:22,446 Speaker 6: that they're, pregnant and so when they do go on a, 585 00:31:22,486 --> 00:31:25,886 Speaker 6: miscarry they can't reach out to that support group for 586 00:31:26,286 --> 00:31:28,646 Speaker 6: the care that they. Need it can be very very. 587 00:31:28,686 --> 00:31:35,286 Speaker 1: Hard diary of a birth was hosted by Me Cassanie, 588 00:31:35,366 --> 00:31:39,446 Speaker 1: lukitch with expert input From Dr Bromwin. Devine we also 589 00:31:39,526 --> 00:31:42,406 Speaker 1: want to hear from. You if you like this, episode 590 00:31:42,526 --> 00:31:47,246 Speaker 1: please share and. SUBSCRIBE a five star rating goes a long, 591 00:31:47,326 --> 00:31:51,286 Speaker 1: way ensuring we continue to share all of your. Stories 592 00:31:52,206 --> 00:31:56,046 Speaker 1: this episode was produced By Ella maitland and, Myself Cassey, 593 00:31:56,126 --> 00:31:58,846 Speaker 1: lukitch with audio production By Tina. 594 00:31:58,886 --> 00:32:07,886 Speaker 5: Mattalov Mama mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the. Land 595 00:32:08,006 --> 00:32:11,366 Speaker 5: we have recorded this podcast on The gadigul people of 596 00:32:11,406 --> 00:32:14,926 Speaker 5: The Eor. Nation we pay our respects to their elders 597 00:32:14,966 --> 00:32:18,846 Speaker 5: past and, present and extend that respect to All aboriginal 598 00:32:18,886 --> 00:32:20,566 Speaker 5: and Torrest Rate islander. Cultures