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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: I was watching my therapist the other day on TikTok

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Speaker 3: and oh yeah, my therapist is TikTok so.

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Speaker 4: Or Mamma Mia. I'm your host, as Shani Dante. Welcome

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Speaker 4: to But are you happy? Because healing isn't just a

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Speaker 4: vibe check?

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Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Anastagia Hernus, a clinical psychologist passionate about

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Speaker 2: happiness and one of the biggest challenges to my field

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Speaker 2: over the last decade or so has been the rise

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Speaker 2: of the influenza self development social media TikTok therapy guru.

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Speaker 1: That's somewhat of a title.

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Speaker 5: Look and look.

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Speaker 2: There are some genuinely good people who are providing genuinely

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Speaker 2: good information on social media.

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Speaker 5: But not everyone is. And it's really hard for you, you, especially.

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Speaker 2: When you're really needing some help to know how to

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Speaker 2: spot the difference.

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Speaker 1: Are you here to help? I absolutely am great. Let's

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Speaker 1: jump in, Anastasia.

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Speaker 4: If I believed everything my algorithm told me, I would

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Speaker 4: have OCD, ADHD PTSD and I need all the treatments.

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Speaker 4: How is social media making your job harder?

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Speaker 2: Social media is making everyone a mental health expert. Apparently,

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Speaker 2: It's definitely making my job both harder and easier.

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Speaker 5: Look, there's pros and cons.

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Speaker 2: It's making my job harder because there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of misinformation out there, and I'm super passionate about dispelling

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Speaker 2: myths when it comes to mental health, neuroscience, and wellbeing.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of misinformation circulating and I think

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Speaker 2: we as therapists then have to do a lot of

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Speaker 2: work to undo some of the learnings that our clients

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Speaker 2: might have. But on the flip side, people are way

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Speaker 2: more aware of their mental health and have greater language

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Speaker 2: around talking about how they're feeling and what their well

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Speaker 2: being is like.

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Speaker 4: So, has anyone ever come to you with a self

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Speaker 4: diagnosis that they've kind of come to for themselves from

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Speaker 4: looking at content online like TikTok?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely all the time, especially the younger generation. I often

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Speaker 2: have people who come into the clinic and say, I

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Speaker 2: think I have this particular diagnosis because I saw online

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Speaker 2: a video of someone talking about their symptoms, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like I can relate to those symptoms. A common

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Speaker 2: one we're seeing at the moment is adult diagnoses of ADHD.

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Speaker 2: So from a scientific perspective, we've absolutely seen an increase

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Speaker 2: in how many people have been diagnosed with ADHD as adults.

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Speaker 2: And that is true and valid, but it is what's

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Speaker 2: out there circulating at the moment, and so a lot

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Speaker 2: more people are actually coming into the therapy room saying

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Speaker 2: that they think they have ADHD based on information and

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Speaker 2: content that they've consumed online. Now, sometimes that might actually

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Speaker 2: be the case, and if so, great they've got this

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Speaker 2: new information and they're in a better position to be

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Speaker 2: able to help themselves. But there's also a lot of

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Speaker 2: cases where people are coming in thinking that they have

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Speaker 2: something like ADHD when actually their symptoms, once we do

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Speaker 2: an in depth clinical assessment, are more aligned with something

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Speaker 2: like anxiety or trauma.

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Speaker 4: So with the clients that you have seen that have

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Speaker 4: coming to the clinic and they've given themselves a self

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Speaker 4: diagnosis and you've run the tests essentially, and they may

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Speaker 4: not have that diagnosis that they thought, how do they

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Speaker 4: react to that? Are they quite open to it? Have

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Speaker 4: they been quite resistant?

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Speaker 2: I try to prep people from the outset, so as

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Speaker 2: soon as they come into the therapy room from that

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Speaker 2: very first session, and they tell me they think they

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Speaker 2: might have a particular diagnosis for whatever reason. Maybe it

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Speaker 2: runs in their family, maybe they've seen it on TikTok,

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Speaker 2: maybe they read an article about it. Doesn't really matter

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Speaker 2: where the information comes from. If they have a reconceived notion,

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Speaker 2: I really try to prep them to be open to

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Speaker 2: other possibilities, and I'm always really validating of what people

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Speaker 2: come in, saying like I'm always pleased to hear that

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Speaker 2: people have tried to do their own research. And that's

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Speaker 2: one of the beauties of the Internet and technology these days.

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Speaker 2: People are really well informed, but I do encourage them

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Speaker 2: to keep an open mind and for us to go

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Speaker 2: through the clinical process of doing in depth assessments and

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Speaker 2: going through a process of what we call differential diagnosis,

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Speaker 2: essentially differentiating between different diagnoses that may actually present quite similarly.

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Speaker 2: If we think about things like ADHD, anxiety, trauma, those three,

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Speaker 2: for example, there are actually similar features amongst them. So

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Speaker 2: just because you have one symptom doesn't that matches a

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Speaker 2: particular diagnosis, doesn't mean that you have that diagnosis.

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Speaker 5: We've really got to do the digging and explore.

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Speaker 4: I read a report recently where it's a seventy three

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Speaker 4: percent of young people access social media for mental health advice.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not surprised that people are coming into the

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Speaker 4: clinic and you know, they've already done all the research

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Speaker 4: and everything like that. But what about the other side,

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Speaker 4: because I think there is a lot of power in

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Speaker 4: social media, and kind of to your point before you

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Speaker 4: said that it's great that people are doing their own research, like,

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Speaker 4: what are some of the benefits.

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Speaker 2: The benefits are that people are just way more informed

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Speaker 2: and they've got what I would call, in technical terms,

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Speaker 2: emotional literacy, right, they've got the language. Previous to mental

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Speaker 2: health really kind of stepping into the space of being

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Speaker 2: something that people commonly talk about, a lot of people

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Speaker 2: didn't have the language to actually communicate what they were experiencing,

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Speaker 2: and that might be emotions that they were experiencing or

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Speaker 2: other signs and symptoms that they were experiencing. Now to

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Speaker 2: have language around your experience is incredibly important because you're

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Speaker 2: then better able to go to a doctor, a psychologist,

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Speaker 2: a therapist and tell them what's gone going on in

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Speaker 2: your body and in your experience. But look, I think

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Speaker 2: there's a big difference between seeking it out and sort

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Speaker 2: of being bombarded with it because I know when I

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Speaker 2: open my apps, whether I like it or not, I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing mental health related.

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Speaker 5: Videos pop up. But it's a really high.

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Speaker 2: Proportion of people who are seeking out mental health support,

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Speaker 2: and I think there could be a number of reasons

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Speaker 2: as to why that is. As you said, sometimes it

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Speaker 2: can be costly to see a therapist. Sometimes it can

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Speaker 2: be long wait lists if you are trying to access

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Speaker 2: low cost services as well. And I think in society

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Speaker 2: we have an increasing awareness of how important mental health

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Speaker 2: is to so many facets of our life.

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Speaker 5: For us to be.

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Speaker 2: Able to show up with our family, do a good

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Speaker 2: job at work, feel like we're able to exercise and

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Speaker 2: sleep well, and function in our relationships, mental health relates

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Speaker 2: to all of that, and I think people are becoming

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Speaker 2: more aware of the important role it plays in just

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Speaker 2: their day to day life.

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Speaker 4: I find with the influencer culture it can be quite

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Speaker 4: performative at times. You know, there's the retreats and the

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Speaker 4: green juices, the yoga retreats.

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Speaker 1: Going to BALI. I mean, the list really is endless.

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Speaker 4: What do you think the impact is when you know

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Speaker 4: people are seen these things on social media?

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Speaker 1: Does it make it worse do you know.

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Speaker 2: What, when I see that stuff on social media, I

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Speaker 2: look at it, I go, Damn, that looks nice.

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't mind being there.

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Speaker 2: But I also think it misrepresents what therapy actually is.

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Speaker 2: Right when I see those really nice retreats and things,

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Speaker 2: they look really peaceful and relaxing, and yeah, I'd love

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Speaker 2: to sit in a spa for a weekends, and you know,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't that be nice for anyone? But actually, when you

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Speaker 2: do therapy in the therapy room for some sort of

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Speaker 2: mental health condition that you might have, it doesn't feel.

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Speaker 5: That nice, Like I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 2: Therapy is sometimes packaged up and sold as like this

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Speaker 2: thing and you walk out of the room and you

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Speaker 2: feel amazing at the end. Yes, sometimes you do, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes you've been crying for forty five minutes and that

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel particularly nice.

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Speaker 5: But it's certainly helpful.

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Speaker 2: So therapy, you know, we have to go through the

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Speaker 2: hard stuff to come out the other end and have

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Speaker 2: that really positive experience and helpful experience. But it takes

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Speaker 2: hard work from both a therapist but also the client

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Speaker 2: who's doing it. It's hard for them to sometimes delve

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Speaker 2: into the parts of themselves and their life that are

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Speaker 2: not so easy to talk about.

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Speaker 4: I find as well with that the influencer culture too.

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Speaker 4: It is quite romanticized and it looks like, oh, if

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Speaker 4: I go to that thing, this is going to be fixed.

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Speaker 4: But in reality, like what I'm hearing, there's so much

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Speaker 4: more grunt work we need to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the phrase gets thrown around, do the work, Yes,

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Speaker 2: what does do the work mean? I don't know that

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Speaker 2: doing the work is just going to a sort of

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Speaker 2: SPAA retreat. Doing the work is often sitting there and

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Speaker 2: unpacking the hard stuff about someone's life and about what

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Speaker 2: their experiences have been.

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Speaker 4: It's important for people that are seeking mental health support

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Speaker 4: to not see that as a solution. It's one of

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Speaker 4: you know, it's a supplement, but it's it's not like,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's not the real deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's getting the right help for the right person

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Speaker 2: at the right time. And so for someone who's seriously

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Speaker 2: suffering with a mental health condition, then a retreat like

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Speaker 2: that probably isn't going to be what helps them through.

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Speaker 5: But if someone is burnt.

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Speaker 2: Out at work and feeling like they need a reset

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Speaker 2: and a restore and a bit of kind of like

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Speaker 2: fulfilling self reflection. Then that sort of retreat might be

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Speaker 2: perfect for them. But it's about knowing what you need

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Speaker 2: at a.

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Speaker 4: Particular point in time and kind of comes back to

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Speaker 4: this point of discernment, knowing what's best for you exactly

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Speaker 4: at the right time. I know that this isn't social

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Speaker 4: media related specifically, but you know, I'm noticing a lot

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Speaker 4: of people are getting help on chat ept these days.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 6: Mmm.

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Speaker 2: The rise of AI as the therapist, We psychologists have

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Speaker 2: a lot of conversations about this. I think AI really

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Speaker 2: has a place and it can do some things really well.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you're familiar with an AI program

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Speaker 2: called pi PIAI yes, I love pi AI. It is

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Speaker 2: like a super validating supportive I'm here to give you

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Speaker 2: a hug friend. If you tell pi AI I've had

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Speaker 2: a really crappy day and I'm feeling really low, it

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Speaker 2: can actually really give you some validating support right. Whether

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Speaker 2: it can give you specific mental health advice or not

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Speaker 2: is questionable, But in terms of wanting to sometimes just

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Speaker 2: feel heard, some AI programs can do that fantastically. Those

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Speaker 2: micro counseling skills as we call them.

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Speaker 4: It really is excellent because I definitely have used chat

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Speaker 4: ChiPT just to soothe myself. I'm really good friends with

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Speaker 4: my chat ChiPT. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 2: So there's absolutely a place for AI. I think we

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Speaker 2: would want to be wary about using AI in substitute

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Speaker 2: of a therapist if we need one. So if someone

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Speaker 2: actually is suffering from more sort of moderate to severe

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Speaker 2: mental health issues, we would want to be recommending, of

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Speaker 2: course that they seek some professional help. And I don't

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Speaker 2: think they're the situations at the moment where AI can

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Speaker 2: really jump in and provide a substitute, but certainly for

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Speaker 2: some sort of like day to day I just want

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Speaker 2: to touch base and like rite out my feelings and

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Speaker 2: feel like they're heard.

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Speaker 5: AI can actually do that really well.

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Speaker 4: I find this is really interesting though, because with AI

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Speaker 4: it's really helpful because especially for people that may not

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Speaker 4: be able to access mental health services because it can

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Speaker 4: be expensive.

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Speaker 1: Like, what are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 2: I again come back to knowing where AI fits in

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Speaker 2: the bigger picture of someone getting their mental health supports right.

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Speaker 2: AI can can certainly sort of sit in a pocket

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Speaker 2: of that, but we don't want it to be the

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Speaker 2: be all and end all of mental health support for someone,

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Speaker 2: just like we don't want social media to be the

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Speaker 2: be all and end all of someone's mental health kind

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Speaker 2: of guidance and support. It can absolutely serve a place

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Speaker 2: and a role in someone's progress, but it's not the

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Speaker 2: only thing we want them looking to.

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Speaker 4: So I've got a bit of a thorny question, and

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to figure out how to word it.

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Speaker 1: In a way that is going to land.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like, with the rise of social media,

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Speaker 4: and you know all these different labels that are thrown

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Speaker 4: around ADHD, OCD, do you feel like people are wanting

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Speaker 4: a label to feel some sense of belonging or acceptance.

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Speaker 1: I just want to get your thoughts on that.

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Speaker 5: It's a tricky question, yes, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm going to answer this in a slightly

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Speaker 2: roundabout way. I think generally, as people, we want community,

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Speaker 2: we want a sense of belonging, right, we don't want

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Speaker 2: to feel on the outside. Many of us are also

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Speaker 2: quite impressionable to the things that we see online, and

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Speaker 2: the more we see something, the more we're going to

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Speaker 2: start to consider it. If I see twenty five videos

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Speaker 2: as I'm scrolling on ADHD, or twenty five videos on OCD,

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Speaker 2: and there's an element of that that relates for my experience,

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Speaker 2: there is a good chance that I'm going.

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Speaker 5: To lean into that more.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm not saying that is a good or a

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Speaker 2: bad thing, but we want to be mindful of over

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Speaker 2: identifying with anything we see online because we can certainly

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Speaker 2: be swayed in particular directions depending on what we consume.

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Speaker 2: And this is where I come back to what we

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Speaker 2: were talking about, where if you think you do relate

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Speaker 2: to some TikTok videos that you've seen that talk about

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Speaker 2: a particular diagnosis, bring that to a therapist.

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Speaker 5: And unpack it with them.

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Speaker 2: It could very well be the case that, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: know what, you actually have had ADHD your whole life

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Speaker 2: and no one ever diagnosed you, and here we are

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Speaker 2: doing it. And if that's the case, well done for

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Speaker 2: doing that self research. But it might also not be

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Speaker 2: the case. So collect your ideas, don't hold onto them

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Speaker 2: too tightly just in case they don't quite align with

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Speaker 2: actually what your experience is, but take them to someone

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Speaker 2: who can help you sort through them.

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Speaker 4: So it is taking more of a collaborative approach rather

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Speaker 4: than funneling in being like this is what it is.

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Speaker 1: This is who I am.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in the therapy world, we have a bit of

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Speaker 2: a saying, which is to the client, you are the

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Speaker 2: expert in you. You know your experience best, you know

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Speaker 2: your symptoms, you know your life, you know your personality

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Speaker 2: better than I ever will you know you. I know

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Speaker 2: psychology stuff, I know research, I know books, I know psychology,

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Speaker 2: and we work together. You've got your expertise, I have

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Speaker 2: my expertise, and we're going to bring them together to

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Speaker 2: help you solve your problem.

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Speaker 4: After this shopbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to teach you

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Speaker 4: how and when to use the advice you get from

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Speaker 4: social media, but more importantly, where you can get the

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Speaker 4: help you actually need. Okay, so what we know is

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Speaker 4: that people aren't actually going to get rid of their phones,

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Speaker 4: so algorithm is here to stay, whether we like it

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Speaker 4: or not.

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Speaker 1: So we really need.

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Speaker 4: To develop skills to manage and discern the tidal wave

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Speaker 4: of content constantly coming at us.

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Speaker 5: How big question.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to share two key ways to kind of

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Speaker 2: reflect on social media content. One is about what am

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Speaker 2: I consuming in terms of how valid it is, who's

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Speaker 2: providing the information and should I listen to this person

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Speaker 2: or not? And the second is about, regardless of whether

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Speaker 2: it's valid or not, how do I feel when I

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Speaker 2: consume that? Okay, so let's start with the first one.

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Speaker 2: So I want people to ensure that if they are

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Speaker 2: looking to TikTok, Instagram, social media for mental health and

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Speaker 2: wellbeing advice, that they're looking to people who are reputable

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Speaker 2: in the field. Ideally, we want to look at people

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Speaker 2: who are registered therapists, registered psychologists, psychiatrists, who have some

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Speaker 2: sort of degree behind them that shows that what they're

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Speaker 2: saying is actually based in science and evidence and research

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Speaker 2: and not just purely their opinions. We have seen the

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Speaker 2: rise of a lot of mental health coaches who maybe

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Speaker 2: don't really actually have any knowledge behind them or studies

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Speaker 2: or research that give them kind of credibility in that space,

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Speaker 2: and so we really just want to be wary about

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Speaker 2: who we're consuming content from. Any psychologist or psychiatrist will

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Speaker 2: have to be registered with in Australia the appropriate body.

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Speaker 2: So all psychologists are registered with OPERA, the Australian Health

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Speaker 2: Practitioners Regulation Agency, and psychiatrists have the medical body that

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Speaker 2: they're registered with as well. Similarly, with counselors, there's counseling

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Speaker 2: bodies that they need to be registered with.

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Speaker 5: So if you actually.

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Speaker 2: Ever do want to check what someone's credentials and credibility are,

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Speaker 2: you can actually go on the websites and search up

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Speaker 2: to see if they're registered. So that might be taking

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Speaker 2: it one step further than what people want to do.

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Speaker 5: That's something I might.

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Speaker 2: Do, but if you're ever curious, you can actually take

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Speaker 2: that step for yourself. It's also important to note that

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Speaker 2: the terms psychologists and psychiatrists are protected titles, so it's

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Speaker 2: actually illegal to call yourself a psychologist or a psychiatrist

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Speaker 2: if you're not one. On the flip side, the term

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Speaker 2: counselor is not a protected title, so literally, anyone who

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Speaker 2: wakes up one morning and decides they want to be

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Speaker 2: a counselor can set up a TikTok or an Instagram

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Speaker 2: and call themselves a counselor. It's not a protected term unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: which sucks for people who are registered counselors. Right, they've

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Speaker 2: done the study, they've done the years of hard work

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Speaker 2: to become registered with their counseling body, but unfortunately that

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Speaker 2: term is not protected and anyone can call themselves a counselor.

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Speaker 5: So just something for people to be aware of.

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Speaker 4: I actually didn't know that about the counselor thing that's

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Speaker 4: good for me to know. So then what happens if

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Speaker 4: people actually enjoy watching someone's content and they may actually

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Speaker 4: not be qualified.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: I think everything with a grain of salt. There's heaps

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Speaker 2: of content online that is general what I would call

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Speaker 2: psycho education, general information about psychology and how the brain works,

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Speaker 2: and how the mind works, and what emotions are. And

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Speaker 2: you don't need to be a registered psychologist or psychiatrist

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Speaker 2: to be able to talk about those topics. So it's

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Speaker 2: not to say that people who don't have those qualifications

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Speaker 2: can't provide really valuable content. I would say, take everything

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Speaker 2: you consume online with a grain of salt. Don't take

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Speaker 2: it to be entirely true, even if it's coming from

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Speaker 2: the most qualified person.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: We want to be able to fact check.

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Speaker 2: I think in today's day and age, where misinformation can

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Speaker 2: spread in so many ways, not just about mental health,

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Speaker 2: but politics in the world and society, one of the

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Speaker 2: skills we need to be able to learn is to

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Speaker 2: do some of that research and be able to fact

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Speaker 2: check for ourselves.

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Speaker 4: I create a lot of content online as do you,

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Speaker 4: and you know, when we're creating that content, we're putting

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Speaker 4: it out to the general public. It's not specifically tailored

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Speaker 4: to one individual and knowing exactly what they need.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's important for everyone who's listening to

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Speaker 2: always keep in mind, is that you could be following

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Speaker 2: someone online who's got really great content that they're putting

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Speaker 2: out that is valid, it's fact checked, it's really helpful,

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Speaker 2: but it is always going to be that you know,

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Speaker 2: TikTok influenza that therapist whoever they are speaking to a

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Speaker 2: general audience. We can't be specific when we put that

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Speaker 2: content out there, and the person consuming that content might

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Speaker 2: actually need something really specific or a specific application of

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Speaker 2: the technique that's being talked about.

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Speaker 5: So this is where the individual, one on one.

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Speaker 2: Kind of therapy really comes into place, because that's what

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Speaker 2: a therapist is there for, to help.

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Speaker 5: You apply that skill or that strategy.

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Speaker 2: Or that technique in a way that is relevant to

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Speaker 2: your personal situation. The other thing that I want people

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Speaker 2: to be aware of is not just the validity of

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Speaker 2: the content. You can, we want to be across fact

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Speaker 2: checking what we see.

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Speaker 5: But regardless of what you see, how does it make.

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Speaker 2: You feel at the end of twenty thirty sixty minutes

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Speaker 2: of scrolling tiktop therapy or instagram reels, how do you

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Speaker 2: actually feel after consuming that mental health information? And there

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Speaker 2: is something to be said for overtherapizing yourself. Right in

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Speaker 2: real life, it's a rare situation that I would recommend

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Speaker 2: people deep dive into therapy throughout the week. I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be saying to someone very often, you need to see

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Speaker 2: a psychologist every single day of the week, and you

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Speaker 2: need to see a psychiatrist, and you need the naturopath

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Speaker 2: and the GP and the whoever else is kind of

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Speaker 2: part of your recovery journey, right, maybe for some people,

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Speaker 2: but look, it's a really small small percentage of people.

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Speaker 2: So there's something to be said for over consuming this

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Speaker 2: information and at the end of it not feeling particularly

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Speaker 2: good about ourselves because TikTok therapy will tell us all

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Speaker 2: the things wrong about us and all the things we

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Speaker 2: need to do to fix ourselves. But in reality, most

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Speaker 2: of us are just out here living life.

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Speaker 5: We don't need that much therapy.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel like the byproduct with all this TikTok

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Speaker 4: therapy out there is that we actually start diagnosing other

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Speaker 4: people in our lives dot dot dot, husbands and partners

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Speaker 4: and everything in between.

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Speaker 2: When you see that good in surreal and you're like, hmm,

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Speaker 2: that sounds like someone I know.

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Speaker 5: Who Maybe I'll just send it to them. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 5: the beauty of the share button.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yes, Look, I think where many of us

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Speaker 2: are guilty of that, of seeing something online and saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: that sounds like someone I know. That sounds a bit familiar,

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Speaker 2: and look, maybe sometimes it is. Maybe sometimes through our

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Speaker 2: consumption of social media content about mental health, we do

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Speaker 2: pick up some signs and symptoms of people in our lives,

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Speaker 2: and maybe that can be a really helpful thing where

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Speaker 2: we see an account that's got some great information and

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Speaker 2: we can share that with someone, whether it's a diagnosing

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Speaker 2: them or if they already have some sort of mental

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Speaker 2: health struggle, being able to provide them with some resources

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Speaker 2: we've found that can be great. But of course we

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Speaker 2: want to be worry about doing that too much.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, some subtle messaging going on there. Yeah, after this

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Speaker 4: shotbreak we hear from a listener who's trying to keep

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Speaker 4: the good parts of social media without all the anxiety

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Speaker 4: in comparison, stay with us.

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Speaker 1: Berb berb Bibby, I'm having a serious christ.

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Speaker 2: To the BRB having a crisis.

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Speaker 4: Friends, we have arrived to the segment of this program

437
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 4: we call BRB Happy a Crisis, and today we're hearing

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Speaker 4: from Riley.

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Speaker 6: I like using social media to stay in the loop

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Speaker 6: and keep up with people I care about, But I'd

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Speaker 6: be lying if I said it didn't mess with my

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Speaker 6: head sometimes, you know, like I scroll Instagram and I

443
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 6: see these influences living what looks like the dream, traveling

444
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 6: all the time, perfect bodies, endless free time, and I know, like,

445
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 6: my life's never going to be like that. I've got

446
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 6: a regular nine to five, five days a week. I'm

447
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 6: not chetting off to Bali once every month, and I

448
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 6: definitely don't look like half these people I see on

449
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 6: my feed. It does get to me sometimes makes me

450
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,719
Speaker 6: feel like I'm falling behind or not doing enough. But

451
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 6: then I come across content creators. You talk about using

452
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 6: social media in a healthier way, muting accounts, focusing on

453
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 6: stuff that adds value. I don't know.

454
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 5: I'm just stuck.

455
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 6: Wondering, like, who's actually giving good advice? How do I

456
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 6: keep using these apps without constantly comparing myself and feeling

457
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 6: like I'm not measuring.

458
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: Up Riley, I'm an advocate for many of the positive

459
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: aspects that social media brings. As you said, social media

460
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: is a great way to stay in the loop, keep

461
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 2: up with what people are doing, keep in touch with people,

462
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: foster connections and relationships that maybe we don't naturally kind

463
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: of keep up with as easily in our day to

464
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: day life. I'm all for a good sharing something on

465
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: social media with a friend that I don't see that often,

466
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: but I get to kind of keep connected with through Instagram.

467
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: So look, there's positives to social media, but as you've shared,

468
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: there's the downsides as well, and so much comparison. Right,

469
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: we can all be so susceptible to comparing ourselves to

470
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: the influences of the world who are traveling to Bali

471
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: every month.

472
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 5: Gosh, wouldn't that be nice?

473
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind a monthly trip to itsh Can we

474
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: tee that up, Ashani?

475
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 5: Can you do it?

476
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: Put it out there?

477
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 5: If only?

478
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: But look, I would say, reflect on how you feel.

479
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: How do you feel when you see this influencer traveling

480
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: to Bali every month or with their you know, perfect

481
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: potentially photoshopped ai body. You know, how do you feel

482
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: when you consume all this content? Is it actually helping

483
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: you in your life in any way? Or is it

484
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: making you feel less than? Is it making you feel miserable?

485
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: Is it making you feel not good about yourself? How

486
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: would you be feeling today if you hadn't consumed that

487
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: content and if you just woke up, have your coffee,

488
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: and lived a normal day. Really start to tune in

489
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: on how this content is making you feel. From that

490
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 2: point you can make some informed decisions for yourself around

491
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: what you do and don't want to consume.

492
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 5: Unfollow the accounts.

493
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 4: You know.

494
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: They might seem quite glamorous and appealing and interesting to

495
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: look at, but if you don't feel good at the

496
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 2: end of it, unfollow that account. You know, there's lots

497
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: of great accounts nowadays, I think that are popping up

498
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: that focus on presenting the realities of life. I've seen

499
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: a lot of them in the parenting space about how

500
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: hard parenting can be, or about the kind of day

501
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: to day mundane aspects of life that can be really

502
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: quite boring and monotonous.

503
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 5: Sometimes there's a lot of content on social.

504
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: Media that is trying to undo the glitz and the

505
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,719
Speaker 2: glamour of influencer lifestyles. So look to some of that

506
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 2: to see if that helps you feel better, but ultimately

507
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: tune into your feelings again, their data points, their sources

508
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: of information. Unfollow, mute the stuff that doesn't make you

509
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: feel good and lean into the stuff that does.

510
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 4: Something I've also done which has been really helpful is

511
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: on your algorithm. Like on your feed, there's an option

512
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: the three dots on the side of the post that

513
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 4: you don't.

514
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Want to see. You click on it and then you

515
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: click not interested.

516
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 4: So in a way, you're actually retraining your algorithm.

517
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 5: Perfect.

518
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: We covered a lot of ground today, did it we, Anastasia,

519
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 4: Can you please give me a roundup of the key takeaways?

520
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 5: Absolutely?

521
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: First up, do not believe everything you see on the internet.

522
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: Always do some extra research. Second, take time to check

523
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: in with yourself and reflect on how you feel after

524
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: consuming certain types of content on social media. Third, please

525
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: don't overdo it with the online therapy. Everything in moderation.

526
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 5: And last there really isn't.

527
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: A substitute for real in per therapy with a qualified

528
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 2: professional when you need it.

529
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 5: Now. Next week is an important one.

530
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: We are going to talk about people pleasing in the workplace,

531
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: and why being a yes person isn't always the best strategy.

532
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 4: If you have a burning question, there are a few

533
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 4: ways to get in touch with us.

534
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: Links are in the show notes.

535
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't

536
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present

537
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal history. The

538
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: executive producer of But Are You Happy is Niama Brown.

539
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: Talie Blackman is our senior producer.

540
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 5: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.

541
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: I'm a Shandy Dante, and.

542
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: I'm doctor Anastasia Hernas. The names and stories of people

543
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: discussed have been changed for the purposes of maintaining anonymity.

544
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 2: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you,

545
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes

546
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach

547
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're

548
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: wanting more immediate support.

549
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.