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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Hey, out louders, it's Maya here for your out loud

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Speaker 1: Sunday special.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I know I've been banging on a little bit on

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've been banging on about hosting, well,

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Speaker 1: not hosting No Filter anymore, and passing the mic over

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Speaker 1: to Kate Langbrook. I spoke about it on last week's show,

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Speaker 1: the announcement came out, and today I'm excited to share

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Speaker 1: with you. You might have heard it if you follow

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Speaker 1: No Filter. If you don't, why don't you? But if

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Speaker 1: you missed it, Kate's very first episode as a new

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Speaker 1: host of No Filter, and she's got an amazing guest.

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Speaker 1: It's a complete exclusive. It's me shocking twist. No one

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Speaker 1: saw this coming. I was very easy to book. I

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Speaker 1: want you to also get to know Kate a little

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Speaker 1: bit because, of course, because it's me, I have to

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Speaker 1: turn the tables and start asking her questions. She's got

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal story. Mother of four, Her eldest was diagnosed

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Speaker 1: with leukemia when he was really little, and she spent

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Speaker 1: years keeping this out of the public eye and dealing

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Speaker 1: with that while she had more children, and it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing story. I absolutely love this woman. I'm practically dry

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Speaker 1: humping her in the studio. You can hear if you

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Speaker 1: listen closely. Here is a very special episode of No Filter,

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Speaker 1: hosted by Kate Langbrook. And for more of Kate and

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Speaker 1: more of the show, she's got some phenomenal interviews coming up.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you follow the link in the show notes

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Speaker 1: and subscribe. Felt like I had no skin, Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: felt like I was just raw. I was just an

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Speaker 1: open I was just all Yeah, I had no protection. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just I was a friggin.

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Speaker 3: Mess for Mama, Maya.

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Speaker 1: This is No Filter.

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Speaker 2: I'm Kate Langbrook. Yes you are, Yes, I am. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to introduce Okay, I'm Kate Lanebrook and I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by someone who when I have listened to No Filter

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Speaker 2: over the years, I have wanted to talk to this

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Speaker 2: person more than anybody else. I would like to introduce

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Speaker 2: my very special guest, Maya Friedman.

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Speaker 1: I was easy to get.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you were not easy to get.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's true. That's also true.

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Speaker 2: In fact, part of the reason I think we're sitting

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Speaker 2: here is that you've been very hard to get.

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Speaker 1: I like playing hard to get. Yes, we did have

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Speaker 1: an aborted attempt at this a year ago, didn't we. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we did. I've been thinking about that a lot when

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about today and how this time last

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Speaker 1: year we sat down before you were going to host

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Speaker 1: the summer summers edition Summer Season of No Filter, to

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Speaker 1: see how you liked it, because I needed a rest,

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Speaker 1: and well, you were hanging by a three, taking you

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Speaker 1: by thread, and it wasn't, in hindsight, a very good

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Speaker 1: time to do an interview. And I never sit down

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Speaker 1: and do long form interviews, so I hadn't for a

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Speaker 1: long time before that, like years, And I sat down

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Speaker 1: and you thought it went well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. It was absolutely fascinating, youth. I

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Speaker 2: would call it well at the time as well. Well,

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Speaker 2: I didn't really think about it a message afterwards. I

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Speaker 2: tried to cancel a few times. You did try to

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Speaker 2: cancel anyway.

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Speaker 1: This is all boring, but this is all behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes stuff. But I pulled the pin because it wasn't

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Speaker 1: When I say it wasn't me at my best. I

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Speaker 1: just I was a hot mess. And I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: always a hot mess. But I was in a particularly

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Speaker 1: fragile state this time last year, and I didn't I

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Speaker 1: just didn't particularly want to put that out there because

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Speaker 1: I was still in the middle of being in that

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Speaker 1: fragile state, you know.

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Speaker 2: Because you were processing something which I know at the time,

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Speaker 2: but I could tell when I was talking to you,

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Speaker 2: And do you remember the question that tricked your trigger?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember what it was?

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'll say it to you now because because you're in

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Speaker 2: such a vastly different place I said to you, because

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Speaker 2: I've been reading your book. I've read your book, and

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Speaker 2: this was you were on the cusp then of waiting

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Speaker 2: for strife to come out. So there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of there were a lot of shadows that came in

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I had no skin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you were.

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Speaker 1: I was just raw. I was just an open I

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Speaker 1: was just all yeah, I had no protection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But you were still as you do and as

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Speaker 2: you have to do. You were still navigating your way

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Speaker 2: through this world because you've got so many, you know,

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Speaker 2: plates spinning at all times, and if you drop the plates,

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Speaker 2: there's a world on each of those plates. So I

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Speaker 2: get the feeling you're very conscious of not dropping those

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Speaker 2: plates because you don't want to damage the people that

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Speaker 2: are on the plates.

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Speaker 1: That's very That's such an insightful observation. And you're right.

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Speaker 1: It's like, I think I probably had some kind of breakdown.

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Speaker 1: I had a sort of a slow moving, ongoing breakdown

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Speaker 1: over the last around that time, before that and probably

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Speaker 1: through to about halfway through this year, which.

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Speaker 2: Weirdly makes me want to laugh.

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Speaker 1: Well it is, it's like, let's just crack into it. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we haven't even have no small talk.

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Speaker 2: Well well you may as well laugh. Oh no, but

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Speaker 2: it is funny.

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Speaker 1: It's like, because I had this breakdown and I probably

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Speaker 1: should have taken myself away somewhere, yes, but I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't. You Hosting the summer season of No

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Speaker 1: Filter was the first tentative step that I'd taken from

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Speaker 1: stepping back from really anything since I wasn't the editor

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Speaker 1: of MMAMEA anymore. I know. So yeah, it was it was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just I was a friggin mess.

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Speaker 2: Because you know, those of us who really just if

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Speaker 2: we knew nothing about you others and your output, if

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Speaker 2: we knew nothing other than that, that is extraordinary, and

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Speaker 2: that is exhausting to think about. So you were exhausted

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Speaker 2: and this is this is the thing, and I wasn't

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Speaker 2: doing It wasn't a gotcha, it wasn't whatever. It was

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Speaker 2: like a genuine because I just wanted to work out

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Speaker 2: what your driver was, what your engine, what what what

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Speaker 2: your engine takes. And I said to you, because I'd

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Speaker 2: read your book, and I said, it's really interesting because

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Speaker 2: you you we talked about whether or not you ever

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Speaker 2: reflect on the amazing thing that you've built things and

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Speaker 2: you said no. And then I said, you know what's

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Speaker 2: interesting in your book and you talk about work that's

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Speaker 2: still got to be done and you know what you

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Speaker 2: could have done better? And I said, but you never

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Speaker 2: talk about the concept of happiness.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that? All I can say I can

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Speaker 1: feel yeah again, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was just a yeah. And then that

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Speaker 2: was like, I don't know, It's like someone pulled a

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Speaker 2: little stitch, the last stitch that you were hanging by,

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Speaker 2: and then you kind of just unraveled.

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Speaker 1: A little bit. Oh yeah, a lot. Yeah, how to

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Speaker 1: we cry? Yeah, it's true, it's like happiness kind of

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Speaker 1: doesn't really when you're running a business, it's not. Actually,

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Speaker 1: that's a luxury that sort of sits on the side

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Speaker 1: and not to be matter like I also love my work.

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Speaker 1: I think it would be easier if I didn't. You know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't If I didn't love my work, I would

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Speaker 1: go I'm so burnt out, I'm so exhausted, I need

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Speaker 1: to back away. But firstly, when you've built something in

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Speaker 1: this size, it's hard to extract yourself. But also I

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Speaker 1: love it. I love what I do like I love

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Speaker 1: what I do. And it's a question of working out

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Speaker 1: when it's time to call time on certainty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, which has led us to this today. How do

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Speaker 2: you work that out? Because I mean, you are apparently

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Speaker 2: the Meya in Mum and Me well I used to be.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: know who I am anymore, who might experience Muma Mea

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Speaker 1: through one of our other podcasts, not no filter or

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Speaker 1: written content or social content that they might consume or something,

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Speaker 1: and they wouldn't even know, particularly younger people gen z

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Speaker 1: ds and millennials who wouldn't even know who I was,

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Speaker 1: which is the way it has always which is what

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Speaker 1: we've always wanted. Jason and I, Yes, as when we

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Speaker 1: first started our last seventeen years have been about slowly

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Speaker 1: backing me out.

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Speaker 2: That's a long that's a long reverse.

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Speaker 1: That's long driveway sories. That's when you're back into the

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Speaker 1: fence many which I've done many times, many many times.

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Speaker 1: My old producer on No Filter, Eliza Ratliffe, knows that

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to quit No Filter for two years,

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Speaker 1: and not because I don't love it, but just be

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Speaker 1: because it takes a lot, Like it takes a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a lot, and for I mean people listening

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Speaker 2: to it, I think they know intuitively, even if they

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Speaker 2: haven't thought in a more academic since about how much

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Speaker 2: it takes that if you're interviewing someone who's got a

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Speaker 2: body of work, you pay them the courtesy of familiarizing

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Speaker 2: yourself with their body of work.

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Speaker 1: Well, that can be books, what is it can be? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the different things and even just getting to understand

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Speaker 1: who someone is like To prepare for an interview, my

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Speaker 1: process is just very immersive and I can only do

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Speaker 1: it within about twenty four hours of actually sitting down

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Speaker 1: with them.

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Speaker 2: So because you've done so many new things over the

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Speaker 2: last I don't know, Like you said, there's a plethora

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Speaker 2: of new podcasts. It kind of feels like there's another

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Speaker 2: you're going to another level, which might be the les

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Speaker 2: which you kind of get to.

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Speaker 1: I think the business is getting bigger, but I want

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Speaker 1: to get smaller, right if that makes sense?

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Speaker 2: It does make sense. But do you know how to

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Speaker 2: do that?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what the last sort of eighteen months to

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Speaker 1: two years has been. It's been setting us up for

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Speaker 1: Jason and I to be able to accelerate that with us,

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Speaker 1: like I don't want to completely building, but to go okay,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't an option until sort of the last eighteen months,

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Speaker 1: so that it's been finding the right people. A new CEO,

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Speaker 1: when new chief content officer, we've got a new chief

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Speaker 1: revenue officer, all these different people to put in to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: we now feel able to step back further to a

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Speaker 1: point where we don't have to run the whole thing anymore,

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Speaker 1: that they can take the baton from us. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you want to hire people who are smarter than you.

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Speaker 1: You want to work with people who are smarter than you.

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Speaker 2: But after a while, when you've done something for a while,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to find those people because you've been in the.

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Speaker 1: Space it's really hard to find those people. And also

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Speaker 1: I'm free. So you know the reason why I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh me, you can do it, me, you can do it. Me,

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Speaker 1: you can do it, and I'll put up my hand

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Speaker 1: is that I am free and I'm available of course,

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Speaker 1: and you know, hiring really good people like you and

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Speaker 1: other and the executives that we've got and all the

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Speaker 1: people that work in our business, including our head of content,

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Speaker 1: that costs a lot of money, and you have to

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Speaker 1: be you know, people see the front, but they don't know.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like the dark gliding across the pond.

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Speaker 1: They don't see what's going on under the surface. And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot going on under the surface.

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Speaker 2: It's like my husband who own nightclubs, and people always think, oh,

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Speaker 2: you must get cheap booze. You don't, you don't. You

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Speaker 2: actually can get it cheaper at Dan Murphy's. But also

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Speaker 2: they don't know about rent and people and insurance and Capra.

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Speaker 1: And La la la and Nicolas exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: So what okay, So here's the thing with you and

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Speaker 2: you're seventeen year reversing out.

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Speaker 1: Of the driveway.

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Speaker 2: But because it's not just a business, it's also your family.

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Speaker 2: So that is just another mind boggle. Like when I

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Speaker 2: was here yesterday and you were arriving with Luca and

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Speaker 2: Jesse Jesse, which was gorgeous, And then someone made the joke,

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Speaker 2: was at Luca that you just derived from the succession helicoptery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's like it was like we bumped into

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Speaker 1: each other in the car and they drove in together.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's a family business. Like there's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty people in it, but Jason and I

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Speaker 1: are the co founders, Luca is the chief operating and

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Speaker 1: product officer, and you know my friend and daughter in law, Jesse.

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Speaker 1: I posted a podcast with her, and so yeah, everyone's

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Speaker 1: various people are involved in the business. I mean to you,

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Speaker 1: youngest children just want to get away from it, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they'll probably get sucked into it too. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that means that it's not a job you can

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Speaker 1: easily quit.

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Speaker 2: But also aside from the job, you've also as a

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Speaker 2: human and as a woman and as a mother, you've

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Speaker 2: become a mother in law and that's and a grandmother

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Speaker 2: and that's all happened at the same time as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that last year was a real

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Speaker 1: unraveling for me, Like on every level of my identity.

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Speaker 1: I turned, I turned, how old did I added? Whatever?

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Speaker 1: I turned fifty fifty three blurred. I became a grandmother.

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Speaker 1: My eldest son got married, Like all of these things happened.

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Speaker 1: My youngest child sort of, you know, got beyond that

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Speaker 1: age where you know, he turned sixteen. So it's like

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Speaker 1: I officially moved into that age of your kids are

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Speaker 1: growing up in a way their own families, and what

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Speaker 1: does that mean? And at the same time, the world

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Speaker 1: is telling you you're irrelevant, you're invisible, you're a carrying,

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Speaker 1: your socks are the wrong length, your socks, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: a loser, all of those things. And then it's like,

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Speaker 1: well and then what do you do with your face

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Speaker 1: and what like? And I just I just lost it,

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Speaker 1: Like I just felt really it was like you know,

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Speaker 1: the when you're doing a software upgrade and you get

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Speaker 1: the like the spinning wheel, right, the wheel was just spinning.

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Speaker 1: It was like the spinning wheel. It's like it was

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Speaker 1: before this new phase. I was just really lost. I

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Speaker 1: was lost at work, I was lost at home. I

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Speaker 1: was lost in with my place in the world. All

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Speaker 1: of those things and part of the reason that I

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Speaker 1: also wanted to find the right person to hand no

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Speaker 1: Filter over to was I wanted to make some room

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Speaker 1: creatively to do some other things, and there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: any room. And I used to think that I could

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Speaker 1: just take on more and more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: And last year I realized, oh, I'm breaking, I'm broken,

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Speaker 1: and I realized that, okay, I can't. So I had

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Speaker 1: to make some space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and how okay. So, in my experience, when you

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Speaker 2: find yourself in situations like that, if you don't make

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Speaker 2: the decision, your body will make the decision for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it's like actors will often say, if they've been

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Speaker 2: in like a long run of a play, they get

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Speaker 2: sick on the last night they had their rap party

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Speaker 2: and then they got their down, So you had to

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Speaker 2: call it before your body called it.

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Speaker 1: My body's tried to call it for a really long time,

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Speaker 1: like you know. Jason was talking to someone the other

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Speaker 1: day and said, MAYA has passed the point of burnout

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Speaker 1: so many times, because it's like it's just not been

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Speaker 1: an option. So it's been I've gone past burnout, past burnout,

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Speaker 1: past burnout, past burnout. And I was sick quite a lot.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, I just got like you know,

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Speaker 1: usual winter thing. Lots of people have just got sick.

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Speaker 1: My immune system has been okay, but I've also been

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Speaker 1: going through perimenopause and then menopause, and so it's been

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Speaker 1: all infusing to know what yes, exactly, and I just

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Speaker 1: I recover very very easily. And I've got a really

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Speaker 1: big engine, I think because I'm quite also forgetful, and

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Speaker 1: I just forget that I'm exhausted, Like don't I don't

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Speaker 1: marinate in things long, like I just slate well really well.

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Speaker 1: Or what time do you go to bed? I probably

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Speaker 1: I look at my phone until maybe fifteen seconds before

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Speaker 1: I'm before I'm asleep, Like I'll just look at it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people that need to do

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Speaker 1: special sleep hygiene and everything. I'm fortunate in that way.

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Speaker 1: And then I will just literally turn my phone off,

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Speaker 1: put it on the floor, and within fifteen seconds going

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Speaker 1: to sleep.

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Speaker 2: And how long do you sleep for?

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Speaker 1: Probably about seven between six to seven hours. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wake up pretty early.

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Speaker 2: Do you wake up and you're full of ideas? Or

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Speaker 2: do you wake up slowly and step into the day.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've never been like a jump out of bed person.

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Speaker 2: No, but sometimes I wake up and I'm like boo,

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Speaker 2: and it's like all these things have happened in my sleep.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, all of those things happen in my way. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: yeah no. So often, what I've become very aware of

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Speaker 1: is that I wake up, open my eyes, pick up

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Speaker 1: my phone, and just saturate myself with stimulation. I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably what most of us do, and for my brain,

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Speaker 1: it needs that. But I've also become aware that that's

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Speaker 1: not a very gentle weight away here. It's not a brutal.

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Speaker 2: Pretty brutal, particularly if you're looking at news.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. The first thing I'll do is

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Speaker 1: look at my WhatsApp and if any of the chats

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Speaker 1: have gone off, Like you know, sometimes I wake up

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Speaker 1: and there'll be thirty messages and it might be that

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Speaker 1: just one of my group chats has gone off overnight

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Speaker 1: about whatever, but it also could be breaking news that

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Speaker 1: I've missed because you know, someone else was up before me.

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Speaker 1: The day starts hard, and then on weekends, Luca brings

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Speaker 1: over Luna, so you're, yeah, I wake up to her,

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Speaker 1: you know, I get up and she's she arrives pretty

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Speaker 1: soon after. So yeah, I'm not. I'm not a sort

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Speaker 1: of lying around person. Like my brain just goes all

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Speaker 1: the time, which is exhausting in itself.

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Speaker 2: So you know how you were saying, Jason said you'd

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Speaker 2: gone beyond burnout so many times. How did that manifest?

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Speaker 1: Then? Great question? Just despair. I think just like cry

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Speaker 1: most days. Sometimes I'd cry in meetings, which is bad.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes i would out of just out of just full.

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Speaker 1: Full, overwhelmed, just overwhelmed, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelmed. I'd feel just

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed a lot of the time. And then I'd have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, come in here, and I'd lived because I

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Speaker 1: had to live, sure, But.

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Speaker 2: And also there's distraction then, and distraction is just so

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Speaker 2: gratefully received when you're like that.

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Speaker 1: I love coming in into the office and I love

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Speaker 1: you know, I love recording the podcast that Mummy are

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Speaker 1: out loud. And then No Filter would often be a

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Speaker 1: lot because when you have to meet like the conversations

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Speaker 1: that you have on this show, not that they're always

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Speaker 1: bleak or sad, but they're always deep and.

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Speaker 2: You have to be called no filter correct, So you

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Speaker 2: have to.

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Speaker 1: Meet someone there every single time. And it's really intense.

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Speaker 1: But I have this thing where I'll walk out of

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Speaker 1: the studio and I won't be able to remember anything.

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Speaker 1: So my poor producers would like try to sit down

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Speaker 1: with me afterwards and like what, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember anything.

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Speaker 2: It's weird.

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Speaker 1: It's like I'm so present at them at that time.

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Speaker 1: But I've got a very efficient clearing system, like my

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Speaker 1: hard drives just constantly being deleted, delete, delate, delete.

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Speaker 2: Where you don't have the storage.

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Speaker 1: I don't have the storage. So I'll walk out and

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Speaker 1: then I won't I actually won't ever want to listen

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Speaker 1: to it again. I want to do won't even talk

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Speaker 1: about it again. And this show requires a lot of

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00:20:09,341 --> 00:20:10,821
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of you've got to take

377
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Speaker 1: really good care of the people that you interview, and

378
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Speaker 1: you've got to follow through on that process. And I

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Speaker 1: just wasn't able to do that justice anymore. And I

380
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Speaker 1: felt what I love is actually I want to listen

381
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Speaker 1: to you interview people like I loved over Summer.

382
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Speaker 2: I love the girl I'm interviewing right now, your love

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Speaker 2: Mayor Friedman. I know you're desperate to escape, but you

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Speaker 2: shall not. I know where the exits are yeah, no

385
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Speaker 2: you don't. We've changed them. You're staying port.

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Speaker 1: I think you're the best interviewer in Australia. I think

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Speaker 1: you are. Oh calm down, you have because you're playful.

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Speaker 1: Even when we did that interview which we ended up

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Speaker 1: not publishing, you will so seamlessly because I was being interviewed,

390
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Speaker 1: but I was also observing you, not to judge you,

391
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Speaker 1: but just because I was interested in your in your practice,

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Speaker 1: and you did that really tricky thing which you took

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Speaker 1: me from tears and then you knew exactly when to

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Speaker 1: just bridge to something funny and we both laughed and

395
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Speaker 1: complete gear chack. But you know, it's an interesting it's

396
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Speaker 1: really rare. Most people can't do that.

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Speaker 2: But in friendships you do it all the time.

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Speaker 1: People do it all the time.

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Speaker 2: That's how you get your friends through, and that's how

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Speaker 2: you navigate those moments.

401
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Speaker 1: Where someone's really raw. And then you're like, it's true.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

403
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Speaker 2: I'm curious about Jay saying you've gone beyond burnout so

404
00:21:36,982 --> 00:21:42,702
Speaker 2: many times, and because of your relationship with him as

405
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Speaker 2: a husband and a lover.

406
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Speaker 1: And a business partner. I know everyone says, I don't

407
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Speaker 1: know how you could work with your partner, I never could.

408
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Speaker 1: What do you say? I would have said the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I would have said the same thing. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: your intention, was it. It was not my idea and

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Speaker 1: it was not my intention. But I certainly wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: here with Mum and MEA wouldn't be what it was. No,

413
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Speaker 1: if it wasn't for the two of us, Like he

414
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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it without me, and I certainly wouldn't

415
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Speaker 1: have done it without him. And I wasn't. I'd already

416
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Speaker 1: been doing it by myself for eighteen months, and i'd,

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Speaker 1: you know, made no money for eighteen months. I'd built

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Speaker 1: an audience, but I didn't know how to monetize it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the skills or the bandwidth to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't have the vision that he did for

421
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Speaker 1: the business. It's not I've got a business brain, but

422
00:22:34,861 --> 00:22:38,101
Speaker 1: not the big picture business and not the you know,

423
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Speaker 1: I can't I won't say I can't read a spreadsheet.

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Speaker 1: I remember Zoe Foster Blake said to me that when

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Speaker 1: she first started go to and she has a couple

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Speaker 1: of business partners co partners, and she said she'd sit

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Speaker 1: in meetings at first and be like, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: the numbers, and then she's like, and then I realized

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Speaker 1: that wasn't cute anymore. I don't do it to be cute.

430
00:22:58,262 --> 00:23:02,701
Speaker 1: But I also like, I just can't things that. I mean,

431
00:23:02,702 --> 00:23:05,101
Speaker 1: I suppose I could, and she has had to teach herself,

432
00:23:05,661 --> 00:23:07,542
Speaker 1: but there's no way I could do what I have

433
00:23:07,702 --> 00:23:09,542
Speaker 1: to do if I also had to do the other stuff.

434
00:23:09,581 --> 00:23:12,182
Speaker 2: And I'm just not that good at the other stuff. Okay,

435
00:23:12,262 --> 00:23:14,381
Speaker 2: but how good are you at being a wife?

436
00:23:15,341 --> 00:23:18,861
Speaker 1: Terrible? Of all? Right, so bad, so bad.

437
00:23:18,982 --> 00:23:22,502
Speaker 2: Let's just have a moment's pause for PJS.

438
00:23:22,982 --> 00:23:28,061
Speaker 1: He's very He's the nurture in this in our right.

439
00:23:28,222 --> 00:23:30,022
Speaker 1: It's not that I don't nurture the kids and I

440
00:23:30,061 --> 00:23:33,141
Speaker 1: don't love him. I love him. Maddling. We've just celebrated

441
00:23:33,182 --> 00:23:36,901
Speaker 1: our twenty fifth wedding anniversary. How did you celebrate for

442
00:23:36,942 --> 00:23:40,022
Speaker 1: the first time? We remembered, Oh, and we went out

443
00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:44,182
Speaker 1: to dinner and we've ever done that before. Really, we're

444
00:23:44,182 --> 00:23:46,262
Speaker 1: not like that, like when we don't give each other presents.

445
00:23:46,302 --> 00:23:49,461
Speaker 1: We're not present people. It's not our love language. We're

446
00:23:49,542 --> 00:23:52,821
Speaker 1: real homebodies. We love staying at home. So I often

447
00:23:52,942 --> 00:23:57,821
Speaker 1: think that if you've got a certain if every relationship

448
00:23:57,901 --> 00:24:00,341
Speaker 1: has a certain amount of petrol in the tank, yes,

449
00:24:00,542 --> 00:24:04,341
Speaker 1: until it sort of just runs out. Working together just

450
00:24:04,462 --> 00:24:06,621
Speaker 1: you you know, uses up that petrol.

451
00:24:06,742 --> 00:24:11,381
Speaker 2: Well, that's why that's why I ask, Yeah, I can't

452
00:24:11,381 --> 00:24:15,702
Speaker 2: even conceive of Like earlier last year, I was kind

453
00:24:15,702 --> 00:24:19,421
Speaker 2: of in between managers and Peter, my husband who I

454
00:24:19,462 --> 00:24:22,941
Speaker 2: also love, who I've been with for twenty one years.

455
00:24:23,581 --> 00:24:25,461
Speaker 2: He was kind of helping out for a while, and

456
00:24:25,502 --> 00:24:30,942
Speaker 2: it was really terrible. Not because he's terrible, he's really

457
00:24:30,942 --> 00:24:32,902
Speaker 2: good at business and he's whatever sexy, but.

458
00:24:32,901 --> 00:24:35,102
Speaker 1: The marrying that, yeah, marrying a thing.

459
00:24:35,422 --> 00:24:37,901
Speaker 2: The fantasy is that you're going to go in like

460
00:24:37,942 --> 00:24:39,982
Speaker 2: do you ever go into Jason's office, shut the door

461
00:24:39,982 --> 00:24:44,701
Speaker 2: behind you and just kind of take you up, because

462
00:24:44,782 --> 00:24:45,262
Speaker 2: that's great.

463
00:24:45,581 --> 00:24:48,142
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if we ever like touch each other

464
00:24:48,182 --> 00:24:52,462
Speaker 1: in meetings or something, Everyone's like ew, mum and dad, ew. No,

465
00:24:52,661 --> 00:24:55,382
Speaker 1: we don't do that. And that's why it's probably been

466
00:24:55,821 --> 00:24:59,222
Speaker 1: the best thing for our business and probably the worst

467
00:24:59,222 --> 00:25:02,622
Speaker 1: thing for our relationship is being in business. Although I've

468
00:25:02,621 --> 00:25:07,782
Speaker 1: also seen relationships where both couples are pulling in different directions.

469
00:25:07,821 --> 00:25:09,741
Speaker 1: Either one of them has a big job, or it

470
00:25:09,782 --> 00:25:13,341
Speaker 1: doesn't or they've both got big jobs or whatever, and

471
00:25:13,381 --> 00:25:16,581
Speaker 1: there's that constant competitiveness of whose job is more important

472
00:25:17,101 --> 00:25:18,821
Speaker 1: or whose role is more important.

473
00:25:18,861 --> 00:25:21,101
Speaker 2: And a lot of actors, if actors go out with

474
00:25:21,141 --> 00:25:23,382
Speaker 2: other actors, they have a very similar kind of imagine

475
00:25:23,381 --> 00:25:25,902
Speaker 2: what that would be like, terrible madness to go out

476
00:25:25,901 --> 00:25:31,502
Speaker 2: with them. Yeah, and I think, you know, for us,

477
00:25:31,702 --> 00:25:33,862
Speaker 2: we've at least always been pulling in the same direction,

478
00:25:34,621 --> 00:25:37,101
Speaker 2: you know, and in that way, it's very efficient. So

479
00:25:37,101 --> 00:25:40,501
Speaker 2: we've been able to tag team with kids and with work.

480
00:25:41,022 --> 00:25:45,101
Speaker 2: But it means that you can't, like a couple of

481
00:25:45,141 --> 00:25:46,742
Speaker 2: years ago, Jase had a or tried to have a

482
00:25:46,782 --> 00:25:49,821
Speaker 2: sabbatical for three months, and he could have a sabbatical

483
00:25:49,861 --> 00:25:51,982
Speaker 2: from the business, but he couldn't have a sabbatical from

484
00:25:52,061 --> 00:25:54,822
Speaker 2: his wife, who is also part of the business.

485
00:25:55,101 --> 00:25:57,701
Speaker 1: And so when I would ring him and you know,

486
00:25:57,782 --> 00:25:59,901
Speaker 1: want to talk about something or be upset about something

487
00:26:01,061 --> 00:26:04,102
Speaker 1: that was really hard. So it's like he couldn't get

488
00:26:04,141 --> 00:26:07,382
Speaker 1: away from me and from me. And since we've appointed

489
00:26:07,381 --> 00:26:10,542
Speaker 1: a new CEO this year and he has moved into

490
00:26:10,542 --> 00:26:14,022
Speaker 1: this role of executive chairman, and he is not we

491
00:26:14,101 --> 00:26:17,462
Speaker 1: don't work together day to day anymore. That's been so good.

492
00:26:17,821 --> 00:26:22,542
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we've rediscovered each other. Wonderful. Yeah, it's

493
00:26:22,542 --> 00:26:24,341
Speaker 1: been wonderful because there.

494
00:26:24,182 --> 00:26:27,422
Speaker 2: Are aspects that you I mean, you just can't serve

495
00:26:27,502 --> 00:26:29,421
Speaker 2: us all parts at the same time.

496
00:26:29,821 --> 00:26:32,661
Speaker 1: And it's really hard to be in meetings with someone

497
00:26:32,702 --> 00:26:35,581
Speaker 1: you know, so like you behave a certain way at home,

498
00:26:36,182 --> 00:26:38,821
Speaker 1: and like you know, when you're partner shitting you, you

499
00:26:38,861 --> 00:26:41,342
Speaker 1: give them a look across the table or you whatever,

500
00:26:41,502 --> 00:26:44,262
Speaker 1: fucked and then we're in meetings and some people here

501
00:26:44,262 --> 00:26:46,502
Speaker 1: have been in those meetings, you know, many years ago

502
00:26:46,661 --> 00:26:50,222
Speaker 1: when we would have discussions, we'd have Barney's about work,

503
00:26:50,262 --> 00:26:52,141
Speaker 1: and they'd be sort of uncomfortable. People get used to

504
00:26:52,182 --> 00:26:54,462
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly. But one time I had to say,

505
00:26:54,502 --> 00:26:56,022
Speaker 1: you know that other people can see the look that

506
00:26:56,022 --> 00:26:58,101
Speaker 1: you're giving me across the table, and he would have

507
00:26:58,141 --> 00:27:00,181
Speaker 1: to say the same to me, because you kind of

508
00:27:00,302 --> 00:27:02,502
Speaker 1: just forget that you've got to behave in a way

509
00:27:03,022 --> 00:27:06,182
Speaker 1: in front of other people. Yes, and it's yeah, it's

510
00:27:06,422 --> 00:27:09,421
Speaker 1: really it's been really challenging. But I'm very proud that

511
00:27:09,581 --> 00:27:14,462
Speaker 1: we are still married, yes, and that we have continued

512
00:27:14,502 --> 00:27:19,742
Speaker 1: to build the business together, and hopefully now that we're

513
00:27:19,821 --> 00:27:23,382
Speaker 1: able to you know, bring in new people and take

514
00:27:23,381 --> 00:27:27,101
Speaker 1: a step back. It means that we'll be able to

515
00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:29,702
Speaker 1: be married again and also just have some space from

516
00:27:29,742 --> 00:27:33,101
Speaker 1: each other. Yes, you know, like it's quite nice to

517
00:27:33,141 --> 00:27:36,381
Speaker 1: get home and go how is your day and not know, yeah,

518
00:27:36,861 --> 00:27:39,221
Speaker 1: you know, that's quite nice looking forward to seeing each other. Okay,

519
00:27:39,302 --> 00:27:43,181
Speaker 1: So if your plan is to make some more time

520
00:27:43,262 --> 00:27:46,141
Speaker 1: for yourself, really and how do you feel that? And

521
00:27:46,141 --> 00:27:49,022
Speaker 1: it's not going to be empty time if I know you? No,

522
00:27:49,222 --> 00:27:50,982
Speaker 1: But is that.

523
00:27:51,101 --> 00:27:54,262
Speaker 2: Commensurate with what Jace wants for himself as well?

524
00:27:54,661 --> 00:27:59,461
Speaker 1: The difference is that he loves Muma Mia and our

525
00:27:59,502 --> 00:28:01,302
Speaker 1: core purpose being to make the world a better place

526
00:28:01,302 --> 00:28:03,982
Speaker 1: for women girls actually came from him. I couldn't articulate it,

527
00:28:04,022 --> 00:28:06,182
Speaker 1: which is very embarrassing because I'm the writer in the family,

528
00:28:06,901 --> 00:28:09,222
Speaker 1: but he was the one, and I remember he wrote

529
00:28:09,222 --> 00:28:10,782
Speaker 1: it down on a piece of paper and he's like,

530
00:28:10,821 --> 00:28:12,661
Speaker 1: I think it's this, and because I was more just like,

531
00:28:12,702 --> 00:28:15,222
Speaker 1: it's the vibe. It's just the women and the vibe,

532
00:28:15,782 --> 00:28:18,181
Speaker 1: because I've like it's the water ice wimmen. I couldn't

533
00:28:18,182 --> 00:28:21,502
Speaker 1: even articulate it, but he could, so he obviously feels

534
00:28:21,542 --> 00:28:23,821
Speaker 1: very strongly about our core purpose, but he's got lots

535
00:28:23,861 --> 00:28:26,661
Speaker 1: of interests and hobbies and things that he wants to

536
00:28:26,702 --> 00:28:30,901
Speaker 1: do outside of mumamega. We're so well. The problem is

537
00:28:30,942 --> 00:28:32,742
Speaker 1: that my hobby is my work, which is I think

538
00:28:33,141 --> 00:28:36,421
Speaker 1: being one of the big drivers of Mumma mea. But

539
00:28:36,462 --> 00:28:41,062
Speaker 1: it makes it very hard to rest, it really does.

540
00:28:41,142 --> 00:28:44,502
Speaker 1: And so for me, the time that I get closest

541
00:28:44,502 --> 00:28:47,542
Speaker 1: to resting is I have a day a week with Luna,

542
00:28:47,622 --> 00:28:49,502
Speaker 1: which being a grandmother is so different to being a

543
00:28:49,582 --> 00:28:51,862
Speaker 1: mother in that you just can be very present because

544
00:28:51,862 --> 00:28:52,542
Speaker 1: it's like one day.

545
00:28:52,582 --> 00:28:54,862
Speaker 2: I know people say that, Yeah, I know, I.

546
00:28:54,822 --> 00:28:57,222
Speaker 1: Never understood it. Yeah, I don't understand. I still don't

547
00:28:57,302 --> 00:29:00,382
Speaker 1: understand that. You know, it is all of the same

548
00:29:00,422 --> 00:29:02,741
Speaker 1: amount of love. It's actually really weird because it's all

549
00:29:02,822 --> 00:29:05,662
Speaker 1: of the same amount of love, except they don't live

550
00:29:05,742 --> 00:29:08,342
Speaker 1: in your house, which is kind of wonderful, but also

551
00:29:08,422 --> 00:29:11,461
Speaker 1: you're coming to them devastation every time. But there's no

552
00:29:11,582 --> 00:29:14,302
Speaker 1: mental load. There's not one bit of mental load. There's

553
00:29:14,342 --> 00:29:17,582
Speaker 1: no guilt, you know, like I'm not like, oh no,

554
00:29:17,661 --> 00:29:21,662
Speaker 1: what if she hasn't eaten enough vegetables? Yeah right fake

555
00:29:21,742 --> 00:29:24,462
Speaker 1: beans again? Yeah, like she want a bickie? Oh, else,

556
00:29:24,661 --> 00:29:27,462
Speaker 1: I just love. It's just love. And it's not like

557
00:29:27,542 --> 00:29:30,342
Speaker 1: she stayed the night. She stays night a lot now,

558
00:29:30,422 --> 00:29:33,261
Speaker 1: but the first time she stayed the night, and if

559
00:29:33,302 --> 00:29:34,862
Speaker 1: she does stay and she wakes up in the night

560
00:29:34,902 --> 00:29:37,582
Speaker 1: when she was a little bit younger, and you know

561
00:29:37,661 --> 00:29:39,261
Speaker 1: that feeling when your baby wakes up in the night

562
00:29:39,422 --> 00:29:41,502
Speaker 1: or you toddally wakes up the night your kid, You've

563
00:29:41,582 --> 00:29:44,222
Speaker 1: got like there's a lot of feelings. It's like irritation

564
00:29:44,502 --> 00:29:46,661
Speaker 1: and resentment and a bit of panic and what if

565
00:29:46,702 --> 00:29:48,022
Speaker 1: this never what if I never sleep?

566
00:29:48,382 --> 00:29:50,181
Speaker 2: But then you're also plased to see them in.

567
00:29:50,222 --> 00:29:54,702
Speaker 1: A weird well yeah, and then I scanned my body

568
00:29:54,742 --> 00:29:58,222
Speaker 1: for any feelings of any negative feelings. Not one. It

569
00:29:58,342 --> 00:30:00,782
Speaker 1: was just like, yay, I get to sniff a little face,

570
00:30:00,942 --> 00:30:02,342
Speaker 1: I get to like give her a little cuddle and

571
00:30:02,382 --> 00:30:05,742
Speaker 1: give her a bottle, and you, oh, that's been fraught.

572
00:30:06,102 --> 00:30:08,742
Speaker 1: She calls me nana, So I thought I didn't want

573
00:30:08,742 --> 00:30:11,422
Speaker 1: to be called nana and whole anxiety, which I think

574
00:30:11,982 --> 00:30:15,822
Speaker 1: is really common in people when they become, particularly grandmothers,

575
00:30:16,661 --> 00:30:20,062
Speaker 1: because it's about your identity and grandma, like it suddenly

576
00:30:20,102 --> 00:30:22,862
Speaker 1: seems very important not to be called nana or grandma,

577
00:30:22,942 --> 00:30:25,181
Speaker 1: because I think what it meant for us was a

578
00:30:25,222 --> 00:30:27,702
Speaker 1: little old lady with gray hair whose life was over.

579
00:30:28,302 --> 00:30:32,902
Speaker 1: And we don't hear like that. I don't think you know,

580
00:30:33,062 --> 00:30:38,902
Speaker 1: like me, so I don't really. This is when I

581
00:30:38,942 --> 00:30:40,822
Speaker 1: was going through my whole identity crisis. I didn't want

582
00:30:40,862 --> 00:30:42,862
Speaker 1: to be that, and so it became very important to

583
00:30:42,902 --> 00:30:44,382
Speaker 1: not be called that and to be called maybe me

584
00:30:44,382 --> 00:30:47,542
Speaker 1: and me, I would decide, babies decide, don't. Well, she

585
00:30:47,702 --> 00:30:49,741
Speaker 1: just didn't call me anything. But what you don't realize

586
00:30:49,822 --> 00:30:52,022
Speaker 1: is that, for the first I don't know until they

587
00:30:52,062 --> 00:30:55,382
Speaker 1: can talk, it's not about what they call you, or

588
00:30:55,422 --> 00:30:57,182
Speaker 1: not about what you call yourself. It's about what everyone

589
00:30:57,222 --> 00:30:59,422
Speaker 1: else calls you. Because it's like here, you know, let's

590
00:30:59,622 --> 00:31:02,222
Speaker 1: here's nana or here you go to And so every

591
00:31:02,302 --> 00:31:05,022
Speaker 1: time they'd say grandma, I die a little bit inside.

592
00:31:05,661 --> 00:31:08,262
Speaker 1: And then I just realized, stop sucking making trying to

593
00:31:08,302 --> 00:31:10,302
Speaker 1: make me happen. It's not going to happen. But no

594
00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:12,982
Speaker 1: one's calling you that. It's like trying to give yourself

595
00:31:12,982 --> 00:31:15,342
Speaker 1: a nickname. It doesn't work, yes, And so I just went,

596
00:31:15,422 --> 00:31:17,782
Speaker 1: you know, I loved my nana so much. My kids

597
00:31:18,102 --> 00:31:20,782
Speaker 1: call my mum Nana. I'm like, I'll be Nana. There's

598
00:31:20,822 --> 00:31:22,502
Speaker 1: only two people who could be Nana, and I'll be

599
00:31:22,582 --> 00:31:24,982
Speaker 1: one of them. And then I had my latest neuroses

600
00:31:25,062 --> 00:31:26,862
Speaker 1: was that she also called Jesse's mum Nana.

601
00:31:27,382 --> 00:31:28,701
Speaker 2: Oh, so how do you different?

602
00:31:28,902 --> 00:31:31,502
Speaker 1: I went into a panic and I'm like, then I

603
00:31:31,582 --> 00:31:33,582
Speaker 1: tried to get her a call because Jesse's mum's so

604
00:31:34,062 --> 00:31:37,142
Speaker 1: so cruizy, and so I'm like, maybe call her Nan.

605
00:31:37,302 --> 00:31:38,981
Speaker 1: And I was trying to control what she called her

606
00:31:39,702 --> 00:31:42,182
Speaker 1: and was just like, knock yourself out, whatever you want

607
00:31:42,262 --> 00:31:44,942
Speaker 1: me to be called. But now she just I tried

608
00:31:44,982 --> 00:31:47,422
Speaker 1: to get her to call and Nan, but she won't,

609
00:31:47,502 --> 00:31:49,261
Speaker 1: and so we're both Nana and I'm just like, who

610
00:31:49,342 --> 00:31:49,862
Speaker 1: gives a shit?

611
00:31:50,102 --> 00:31:52,582
Speaker 2: And you can tell he well, lots of people.

612
00:31:52,462 --> 00:31:53,582
Speaker 1: I said it on out that and lots of it

613
00:31:53,742 --> 00:31:56,421
Speaker 1: was very funny conversation. Everyone was telling me how they

614
00:31:56,982 --> 00:32:01,822
Speaker 1: they had two nana's, but one was like, Nana Nana.

615
00:32:01,942 --> 00:32:05,422
Speaker 2: Husband's got old Nana, We've got old Nana, Lil, We've

616
00:32:05,462 --> 00:32:07,421
Speaker 2: got Nana Ree his mum and Marie.

617
00:32:07,982 --> 00:32:10,742
Speaker 1: So kids work it out. I know the difference. But

618
00:32:11,022 --> 00:32:13,582
Speaker 1: that speaks to my insecurity because I'm all about leaderboards

619
00:32:13,622 --> 00:32:16,942
Speaker 1: and I was worried that I would be low down

620
00:32:17,022 --> 00:32:19,622
Speaker 1: on the leaderboard of who she loved. This is how

621
00:32:19,661 --> 00:32:20,502
Speaker 1: I think about things.

622
00:32:20,582 --> 00:32:21,542
Speaker 3: Do you think that?

623
00:32:22,661 --> 00:32:27,542
Speaker 2: Because I honestly, if there was anyone to delight a child,

624
00:32:28,582 --> 00:32:32,822
Speaker 2: it's your elf and energy. Like seriously, well maybe.

625
00:32:32,661 --> 00:32:35,262
Speaker 1: It's in security. It's insecurity, I guess, But it's also

626
00:32:35,342 --> 00:32:38,742
Speaker 1: how I make sense of the world because I'm sort

627
00:32:38,782 --> 00:32:41,622
Speaker 1: of chaotic and I need to I like rules and

628
00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:44,702
Speaker 1: I like to know where I stand. I like feedback,

629
00:32:44,782 --> 00:32:48,661
Speaker 1: I like I like knowing things. So I was very

630
00:32:48,782 --> 00:32:50,701
Speaker 1: much well at the top of the leaderboards Jesse and

631
00:32:50,742 --> 00:32:54,062
Speaker 1: then Luca, and then Claire, Jesse's twin sister, and then Anne,

632
00:32:54,142 --> 00:32:58,222
Speaker 1: Jesse's mum, and then maybe me. Right, so I'm like, okay,

633
00:32:58,302 --> 00:33:00,622
Speaker 1: I'm number five. So Anne suggested that I just be

634
00:33:00,742 --> 00:33:07,582
Speaker 1: called five, and I was like, I got really upset

635
00:33:07,582 --> 00:33:10,982
Speaker 1: about that, and because anyway, it's just I told you,

636
00:33:11,062 --> 00:33:15,741
Speaker 1: I've been how two years like it's been, I've been

637
00:33:16,022 --> 00:33:18,261
Speaker 1: all over the shop, but I've not known who I am.

638
00:33:18,902 --> 00:33:21,382
Speaker 2: I think because I've seen you a little bit fleetingly

639
00:33:21,422 --> 00:33:25,181
Speaker 2: in those times and always lovely actually, but it's felt

640
00:33:25,262 --> 00:33:28,382
Speaker 2: to me like you're rebuilding.

641
00:33:28,942 --> 00:33:32,902
Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly right. I could see it like being

642
00:33:32,942 --> 00:33:36,142
Speaker 1: in a crystalist. Yeah yeah, yeah, and not that I

643
00:33:36,342 --> 00:33:38,502
Speaker 1: was a caterpillar and now in Butterfly. It's not like that,

644
00:33:38,622 --> 00:33:41,661
Speaker 1: but it was like it was a different phase of

645
00:33:41,782 --> 00:33:44,701
Speaker 1: my life and a different you know, it doesn't You

646
00:33:44,742 --> 00:33:46,542
Speaker 1: don't just go from one chapter to the next chapter.

647
00:33:46,982 --> 00:33:51,542
Speaker 2: And transitions are very painful and no matter where they are,

648
00:33:51,742 --> 00:33:54,142
Speaker 2: a new job, new, like anything, that's.

649
00:33:54,222 --> 00:33:58,222
Speaker 1: Very hard, very leave behind and fear. But stepping into

650
00:33:58,262 --> 00:34:01,182
Speaker 1: the unknown is always uncertainty. I'm not good with any

651
00:34:01,262 --> 00:34:05,462
Speaker 1: of that. I'm really not good with butriminals face, I don't.

652
00:34:05,502 --> 00:34:06,902
Speaker 1: I think most people aren't.

653
00:34:07,222 --> 00:34:10,102
Speaker 2: Really. I just think you expect more of you yourself.

654
00:34:10,582 --> 00:34:14,502
Speaker 2: I I I get very impatient. I'm like, again, I

655
00:34:14,661 --> 00:34:16,382
Speaker 2: know on the side, are we there yet? Are we

656
00:34:16,422 --> 00:34:18,022
Speaker 2: there yet? Am I in this new phase yet? Do

657
00:34:18,102 --> 00:34:19,221
Speaker 2: I understand who I am?

658
00:34:19,382 --> 00:34:19,542
Speaker 3: Yet?

659
00:34:20,022 --> 00:34:22,741
Speaker 1: And it was years of not not knowing what I

660
00:34:22,822 --> 00:34:25,942
Speaker 1: wanted not knowing, and I just find that very inefficient.

661
00:34:29,261 --> 00:34:33,222
Speaker 2: Mayor Friedman, please stay till after this wheat break twisted

662
00:34:33,302 --> 00:34:42,982
Speaker 2: my own. I'm just thinking about what you've built, and

663
00:34:43,062 --> 00:34:46,782
Speaker 2: I mean you built it for women, women and girls.

664
00:34:47,781 --> 00:34:50,062
Speaker 2: But I think the woman, and the girl that you

665
00:34:50,181 --> 00:34:53,982
Speaker 2: built it for was yourself. Because do you know what

666
00:34:54,062 --> 00:34:56,821
Speaker 2: I mean? If you think about if you think about

667
00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:59,342
Speaker 2: the conversations that happen every day and the things that

668
00:35:00,022 --> 00:35:02,781
Speaker 2: everyone's exposed to and that you bring to people, and

669
00:35:03,462 --> 00:35:06,902
Speaker 2: the little nugget of cheese or the dead mouse that

670
00:35:06,982 --> 00:35:09,622
Speaker 2: the cat leaves at the doorstep, all of that that

671
00:35:11,542 --> 00:35:14,822
Speaker 2: seems like it might have been for you to find

672
00:35:14,902 --> 00:35:18,942
Speaker 2: yourself or to bring something to yourself.

673
00:35:19,862 --> 00:35:24,622
Speaker 1: Yes, I think because I am so basic, I'm very common,

674
00:35:25,221 --> 00:35:27,462
Speaker 1: and I say that in a way like I'm very

675
00:35:29,261 --> 00:35:32,262
Speaker 1: i am very ordinary. And the things that I feel

676
00:35:32,582 --> 00:35:35,142
Speaker 1: and the things that I'm interested in are not the

677
00:35:35,181 --> 00:35:37,342
Speaker 1: things that everybody feels and they're interested in, But a

678
00:35:37,462 --> 00:35:40,821
Speaker 1: lot of people feel and are interested in those things too.

679
00:35:41,781 --> 00:35:45,622
Speaker 1: So often I'm always an observer of my own behavior,

680
00:35:45,661 --> 00:35:47,941
Speaker 1: and I know that when my behavior is shifting from

681
00:35:47,982 --> 00:35:51,302
Speaker 1: a consumer point of view, a content more likely that correct.

682
00:35:51,582 --> 00:35:53,821
Speaker 1: So like when I didn't know how to start a

683
00:35:53,862 --> 00:35:55,781
Speaker 1: business and I started a lady startup, or when I

684
00:35:55,942 --> 00:35:58,582
Speaker 1: was interested in perimenopause but there was nothing out there

685
00:35:58,622 --> 00:36:01,181
Speaker 1: and it felt very uncool, and we started the very

686
00:36:01,261 --> 00:36:03,781
Speaker 1: we did the very Perry summit, and it's kind of like,

687
00:36:03,902 --> 00:36:10,301
Speaker 1: what's next, What's next? What is next? I'm working on something. Yeah,

688
00:36:10,582 --> 00:36:13,901
Speaker 1: I'm working on a little secret thing. Oh and it's

689
00:36:13,982 --> 00:36:18,382
Speaker 1: not secret because I'm being KOI. It's secret because I

690
00:36:18,741 --> 00:36:20,462
Speaker 1: just want to see what it is.

691
00:36:20,781 --> 00:36:20,821
Speaker 2: Like.

692
00:36:21,181 --> 00:36:23,942
Speaker 1: One of the things I find I'm not suited to

693
00:36:24,022 --> 00:36:26,301
Speaker 1: being in a business of this size. I'm just not.

694
00:36:26,502 --> 00:36:28,462
Speaker 1: I don't have the patience for it. I don't have

695
00:36:29,342 --> 00:36:32,022
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to be in meetings and

696
00:36:32,741 --> 00:36:34,622
Speaker 1: I have to go through layers and you need all

697
00:36:34,661 --> 00:36:37,261
Speaker 1: of that at a company this size. You need processes

698
00:36:37,342 --> 00:36:41,382
Speaker 1: and layers and strategies and schedules. I just want to

699
00:36:41,422 --> 00:36:44,901
Speaker 1: work on a little couple of little things and it's

700
00:36:44,982 --> 00:36:49,422
Speaker 1: still a bit embryonic. And until it's done, I don't

701
00:36:49,622 --> 00:36:50,861
Speaker 1: commercialize it. I don't want to.

702
00:36:50,982 --> 00:36:51,622
Speaker 2: Don't jinx it.

703
00:36:52,062 --> 00:36:55,461
Speaker 1: It's not even jinxing it. It's just that I'll kind

704
00:36:55,502 --> 00:36:58,942
Speaker 1: of lose energy for it and lose interest in it

705
00:36:59,982 --> 00:37:03,462
Speaker 1: because you know, the economics of making content is that

706
00:37:05,022 --> 00:37:06,462
Speaker 1: it'll have to be sold and it will have to

707
00:37:06,502 --> 00:37:08,181
Speaker 1: be sponsored, and we'll have to you know, we'll have

708
00:37:08,302 --> 00:37:10,462
Speaker 1: to work out when in the schedule it should happen

709
00:37:10,582 --> 00:37:13,142
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, and all of that I completely

710
00:37:13,221 --> 00:37:15,381
Speaker 1: understand because I think a lot of people don't get

711
00:37:15,462 --> 00:37:17,342
Speaker 1: that content costs money to create.

712
00:37:18,542 --> 00:37:21,181
Speaker 2: You know why now, because we're used to getting it

713
00:37:21,261 --> 00:37:24,502
Speaker 2: for nothing. Yes, people don't even buy a newspaper anymore.

714
00:37:24,701 --> 00:37:26,542
Speaker 1: But do you know what we pay money for water?

715
00:37:26,982 --> 00:37:31,502
Speaker 1: We understand the water cost money, And yet content is

716
00:37:31,622 --> 00:37:35,902
Speaker 1: really undervalued. And I think that's both the best and

717
00:37:35,982 --> 00:37:38,221
Speaker 1: worst thing about the Internet. You know, it's democratized who

718
00:37:38,221 --> 00:37:40,142
Speaker 1: can make content, which I think is wonderful. I couldn't

719
00:37:40,142 --> 00:37:42,822
Speaker 1: have built the media company without the Internet with jas,

720
00:37:42,902 --> 00:37:46,341
Speaker 1: but you know I couldn't. I couldn't buy a TV

721
00:37:46,502 --> 00:37:49,422
Speaker 1: license or you know, start my own maggae buy a

722
00:37:49,462 --> 00:37:54,502
Speaker 1: TV license now exactly, get one for a hundred. But

723
00:37:55,142 --> 00:37:57,421
Speaker 1: that's been good. But the bad thing is that people

724
00:37:57,582 --> 00:38:01,741
Speaker 1: think that it doesn't take time and effort and expertise

725
00:38:01,902 --> 00:38:04,902
Speaker 1: to create good quality Yes, and this.

726
00:38:05,022 --> 00:38:08,542
Speaker 2: Is good quality content, really good quality content. This is

727
00:38:09,221 --> 00:38:12,341
Speaker 2: if I think about the things that I've got through

728
00:38:12,422 --> 00:38:14,742
Speaker 2: Mama mar and I've not been the most avid consumer

729
00:38:14,822 --> 00:38:19,382
Speaker 2: of anything online, particularly not through those years of intense

730
00:38:19,542 --> 00:38:22,022
Speaker 2: child rearing and stuff and leukemia and all of that.

731
00:38:22,382 --> 00:38:25,102
Speaker 1: So I wasn't. I've just been like, a, how do

732
00:38:25,181 --> 00:38:29,741
Speaker 1: you think that that experience of having your eldest get leukemia?

733
00:38:30,342 --> 00:38:32,542
Speaker 1: How do you think, because I know you're not a

734
00:38:32,701 --> 00:38:36,102
Speaker 1: very online person, No, how do you think it would

735
00:38:36,102 --> 00:38:39,462
Speaker 1: have been made either better or worse by having the

736
00:38:39,582 --> 00:38:42,942
Speaker 1: internet at that time? Both for community, because I know

737
00:38:43,022 --> 00:38:44,942
Speaker 1: a lot of people who've either the loved ones with

738
00:38:45,022 --> 00:38:50,221
Speaker 1: cancer of cancer themselves who whether it's group chats, you know,

739
00:38:50,542 --> 00:38:53,102
Speaker 1: what was your village through that time, because you're also

740
00:38:53,181 --> 00:38:54,261
Speaker 1: to keep it secret.

741
00:38:54,902 --> 00:38:59,342
Speaker 2: Yes, well secret, not to our friends and not to

742
00:38:59,462 --> 00:39:02,622
Speaker 2: our neighbors, and not to in fact, most of the

743
00:39:02,701 --> 00:39:04,261
Speaker 2: people in the media knew about it.

744
00:39:04,382 --> 00:39:07,181
Speaker 1: I found that extraordinary. Yes, I didn't know about it,

745
00:39:07,502 --> 00:39:09,102
Speaker 1: and not that we knew each other well then, but.

746
00:39:09,661 --> 00:39:10,542
Speaker 2: In Melbourne you're in city.

747
00:39:10,661 --> 00:39:13,622
Speaker 1: Yes, But the fact that the media, particularly the Melbourne media,

748
00:39:13,942 --> 00:39:16,182
Speaker 1: knew and it was such an open secret and everybody

749
00:39:16,261 --> 00:39:19,741
Speaker 1: kept it quiet for years, I thought was such a

750
00:39:19,942 --> 00:39:23,942
Speaker 1: tribute to how you're the esteem in which you're held

751
00:39:25,022 --> 00:39:28,102
Speaker 1: in our industry because that was a big story.

752
00:39:28,701 --> 00:39:31,102
Speaker 2: It was a big story, really, and at the time,

753
00:39:31,982 --> 00:39:35,862
Speaker 2: I think, I mean talk about hanging by three and

754
00:39:35,942 --> 00:39:39,422
Speaker 2: I don't think I had the energy to even address it,

755
00:39:40,102 --> 00:39:42,062
Speaker 2: and it was twofold. It was partly that it was

756
00:39:42,181 --> 00:39:45,102
Speaker 2: Lewis and eldest son, who was six when he was diagnosed,

757
00:39:45,221 --> 00:39:51,821
Speaker 2: and partly it was not our story to tell.

758
00:39:52,142 --> 00:39:56,501
Speaker 1: We were like the custodian of him through this terrible time.

759
00:39:57,781 --> 00:39:59,462
Speaker 1: But also I didn't have the energy.

760
00:40:00,181 --> 00:40:03,062
Speaker 2: I didn't even have the energy to like sometimes if

761
00:40:03,102 --> 00:40:06,181
Speaker 2: I'd bump into someone I saw and they'd go house Lewis,

762
00:40:06,261 --> 00:40:08,942
Speaker 2: I didn't even have that. Oh so the thought of

763
00:40:09,062 --> 00:40:13,861
Speaker 2: taking then the media aspect of it was completely.

764
00:40:13,422 --> 00:40:16,382
Speaker 1: You had this circle that closed around you. But similar

765
00:40:16,462 --> 00:40:18,821
Speaker 1: to you know, so self indulgent me saying I was

766
00:40:18,862 --> 00:40:20,701
Speaker 1: so burnt out and it was so hard deciding what

767
00:40:20,822 --> 00:40:23,022
Speaker 1: to be called. You had a child that was battling

768
00:40:23,062 --> 00:40:24,902
Speaker 1: cancer and you had to turn up at work on

769
00:40:25,022 --> 00:40:27,341
Speaker 1: breakfast radio every single day. It's not like you could

770
00:40:27,342 --> 00:40:28,542
Speaker 1: say I'm taking a year off. No.

771
00:40:28,982 --> 00:40:32,982
Speaker 2: But also this is why I understand what you're saying

772
00:40:33,181 --> 00:40:38,062
Speaker 2: about work. Work is a salvation. Work is a salvation

773
00:40:38,422 --> 00:40:40,022
Speaker 2: for us. I mean, yeah, it is for us, and

774
00:40:40,142 --> 00:40:43,102
Speaker 2: it was for me, and it just to have a

775
00:40:43,261 --> 00:40:45,622
Speaker 2: place where and I didn't tune up every day and

776
00:40:45,661 --> 00:40:48,902
Speaker 2: there were a couple of people that were just so fantastic.

777
00:40:48,982 --> 00:40:52,542
Speaker 2: Other comedians who were like, call us any time you know,

778
00:40:52,701 --> 00:40:56,102
Speaker 2: Mick malloy and Hellia and will be there. They had

779
00:40:56,181 --> 00:40:59,701
Speaker 2: your back. Yeah, they were fantastic. I was doing breakfast

780
00:41:00,102 --> 00:41:04,542
Speaker 2: Radio with Hughesy in Melbourne at the time, but there

781
00:41:04,582 --> 00:41:07,462
Speaker 2: were times when it would be the only time. Sometimes

782
00:41:07,462 --> 00:41:10,022
Speaker 2: I'd only get in there once for the week, right,

783
00:41:10,822 --> 00:41:13,341
Speaker 2: and it would be the only time in the week

784
00:41:14,022 --> 00:41:18,301
Speaker 2: that wasn't about cancer the only time. And so even

785
00:41:18,342 --> 00:41:21,181
Speaker 2: though I was a bit wobbly, I was very hollow inside.

786
00:41:21,661 --> 00:41:24,022
Speaker 2: But the muscles that you train, and I think this

787
00:41:24,142 --> 00:41:26,062
Speaker 2: in life anyway. I always say it to my children.

788
00:41:27,102 --> 00:41:30,221
Speaker 2: The muscles that you train will be your strongest muscles.

789
00:41:30,781 --> 00:41:34,022
Speaker 2: And because I had been doing breakfast radio for so

790
00:41:34,181 --> 00:41:37,341
Speaker 2: many years, and doing breakfast radio you have to wake

791
00:41:37,382 --> 00:41:40,261
Speaker 2: up whistling and it's like you coming into the office here.

792
00:41:40,582 --> 00:41:40,781
Speaker 1: Yeah.

793
00:41:40,942 --> 00:41:45,982
Speaker 2: So my muscles to be optimistic, to be cheerful, to

794
00:41:46,142 --> 00:41:49,982
Speaker 2: be funny, yeah, and to be and to enjoy the

795
00:41:50,142 --> 00:41:54,582
Speaker 2: world are very strong muscles. And so I get really

796
00:41:54,622 --> 00:41:57,942
Speaker 2: annoyed in my household when people are grumpy. I hate

797
00:41:58,062 --> 00:42:00,221
Speaker 2: fucking bad mood people. Yep.

798
00:42:00,382 --> 00:42:03,982
Speaker 1: But you're not. That's interesting because the downside of that

799
00:42:04,102 --> 00:42:05,181
Speaker 1: is toxic positivity.

800
00:42:05,221 --> 00:42:08,181
Speaker 2: But you're not that. What is toxic positivity?

801
00:42:08,542 --> 00:42:10,542
Speaker 1: That's kind of like look at the bright side?

802
00:42:11,502 --> 00:42:14,901
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, No, no, I no, I don't

803
00:42:14,942 --> 00:42:15,422
Speaker 2: think I'm.

804
00:42:15,342 --> 00:42:19,502
Speaker 1: That it's like forcing everybody to not be able to

805
00:42:19,862 --> 00:42:22,622
Speaker 1: experience their full range of emotions. You're not that, because

806
00:42:22,661 --> 00:42:24,622
Speaker 1: that can be quite controlling and quite toxic.

807
00:42:25,022 --> 00:42:29,461
Speaker 2: No, but I think it's more about, certainly breakfast radio,

808
00:42:29,542 --> 00:42:32,542
Speaker 2: which is probably a metaphor for life. You're waking up

809
00:42:32,622 --> 00:42:38,221
Speaker 2: to the world. My job is to give listeners the

810
00:42:38,342 --> 00:42:42,822
Speaker 2: gift of faith. Faith in the day, faith that everything

811
00:42:42,862 --> 00:42:45,822
Speaker 2: will be all right, Faith that you are not alone

812
00:42:46,062 --> 00:42:49,142
Speaker 2: going through this, Faith that once you get out there,

813
00:42:49,221 --> 00:42:51,782
Speaker 2: it's going to be great. It'll be fine. It won't

814
00:42:51,822 --> 00:42:54,902
Speaker 2: be without challenges, but you're going to be fine because

815
00:42:55,022 --> 00:42:58,902
Speaker 2: you've got me, you've got him, we've got us. And

816
00:42:59,062 --> 00:43:04,261
Speaker 2: that also things in the world that might be ludicrous,

817
00:43:04,462 --> 00:43:08,981
Speaker 2: that might be frightening. If you stop, if you don't

818
00:43:09,102 --> 00:43:11,062
Speaker 2: walk in to the dark room with your eyes shut

819
00:43:11,062 --> 00:43:12,941
Speaker 2: because you're scared of what you see. But if you open,

820
00:43:13,062 --> 00:43:15,022
Speaker 2: actually open your eyes and you look across the room,

821
00:43:15,062 --> 00:43:19,982
Speaker 2: there's someone else there, you can turn that moment into

822
00:43:20,142 --> 00:43:21,862
Speaker 2: something humorous.

823
00:43:22,062 --> 00:43:24,301
Speaker 1: So who is that for you? If you were out

824
00:43:24,382 --> 00:43:26,902
Speaker 1: for everyone during that dark time, who is that for you?

825
00:43:29,342 --> 00:43:36,261
Speaker 2: Uh? My mother in law Marie Peter's mum Peter to

826
00:43:36,382 --> 00:43:38,661
Speaker 2: a certain extent, But that was also very hard.

827
00:43:38,781 --> 00:43:42,062
Speaker 1: That was you know, a lot of relationships break up. Yeah.

828
00:43:42,661 --> 00:43:47,221
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's instinct also. I'm very you know, cognizant

829
00:43:47,261 --> 00:43:50,902
Speaker 2: of the fact we had a good outcome so and

830
00:43:51,462 --> 00:43:51,821
Speaker 2: was touching.

831
00:43:51,982 --> 00:43:55,462
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the people that didn't, the children that fell

832
00:43:55,622 --> 00:44:00,382
Speaker 1: along the way? Would you sometimes in breaks just cry

833
00:44:00,701 --> 00:44:02,622
Speaker 1: or you would just be in there and you would

834
00:44:02,661 --> 00:44:05,301
Speaker 1: be like, right, the shutters are coming up or they're

835
00:44:05,302 --> 00:44:07,142
Speaker 1: coming down, but I'm like no.

836
00:44:07,342 --> 00:44:09,821
Speaker 2: In the break, we'd be talking about what was going on.

837
00:44:10,382 --> 00:44:12,262
Speaker 2: U's at some point go say how I thinks?

838
00:44:12,382 --> 00:44:15,942
Speaker 1: How's it? Louis? We talk about it? And then you

839
00:44:16,062 --> 00:44:18,181
Speaker 1: were just clicking to gear and click out.

840
00:44:18,302 --> 00:44:23,102
Speaker 2: Sometimes sometimes it was not not so much clicky, but

841
00:44:23,542 --> 00:44:28,582
Speaker 2: you just have to start the scene again, what are

842
00:44:28,622 --> 00:44:32,062
Speaker 2: you going to do? Four years? Oh, in my head

843
00:44:32,102 --> 00:44:35,462
Speaker 2: it was two four years for boys because of the

844
00:44:35,582 --> 00:44:40,582
Speaker 2: lukini he had, because it hides, it hides in the lining,

845
00:44:40,822 --> 00:44:43,342
Speaker 2: in the in the spinal cord and in the brain

846
00:44:43,502 --> 00:44:46,982
Speaker 2: lining and in boys in the testicles. So for girls

847
00:44:47,102 --> 00:44:51,261
Speaker 2: the treatment is some good news. For girls, the treatment's

848
00:44:51,302 --> 00:44:55,901
Speaker 2: much shorter the girls. Four years, Yeah, four years, four

849
00:44:55,982 --> 00:44:59,462
Speaker 2: years of chema, Yeah, lumber punctures.

850
00:45:00,622 --> 00:45:02,781
Speaker 1: You had more children in that time, didn't you know

851
00:45:03,102 --> 00:45:05,222
Speaker 1: I'd had I'd had yarning.

852
00:45:05,382 --> 00:45:09,022
Speaker 2: My youngest was five months old when Lewis was diagnosed,

853
00:45:09,062 --> 00:45:13,822
Speaker 2: so we had four under six, And so when Lewis

854
00:45:13,902 --> 00:45:18,661
Speaker 2: was diagnosed, I had to stop feeding Yarny obviously our youngest.

855
00:45:18,822 --> 00:45:21,462
Speaker 2: And like it was just like our daughter went to

856
00:45:21,542 --> 00:45:25,142
Speaker 2: school too soon, because it was like everybody's got to

857
00:45:25,181 --> 00:45:26,382
Speaker 2: get out of the house because we're going to be

858
00:45:26,382 --> 00:45:26,862
Speaker 2: at the hospital.

859
00:45:26,902 --> 00:45:28,781
Speaker 1: Everyone's got to get on with things. Chop chop.

860
00:45:28,982 --> 00:45:32,102
Speaker 2: Like. It was a bit like that, and we didn't

861
00:45:32,221 --> 00:45:34,462
Speaker 2: mean to be brutal, but it did. There was a

862
00:45:34,582 --> 00:45:41,261
Speaker 2: period in which anyone else's ailment a lot of sympathy, Yeah,

863
00:45:41,422 --> 00:45:43,982
Speaker 2: because at one stage, Yanni, this is the worst thing

864
00:45:44,022 --> 00:45:47,261
Speaker 2: in the world, had a broken wrist for two days

865
00:45:47,302 --> 00:45:50,582
Speaker 2: and we didn't realize it because it wasn't lukem Heir

866
00:45:50,622 --> 00:45:52,701
Speaker 2: And it was only when Ray came over and she

867
00:45:52,822 --> 00:45:56,221
Speaker 2: grabbed him to swing him around by his you know,

868
00:45:56,382 --> 00:45:59,102
Speaker 2: grabbed him his hands, swinging in a circle, and he

869
00:45:59,302 --> 00:46:03,261
Speaker 2: let out this blood curdling yelp and it had a

870
00:46:03,302 --> 00:46:06,022
Speaker 2: broken wrist from where he jumped off the bottom stemp.

871
00:46:06,181 --> 00:46:11,821
Speaker 1: And how did you find the because you know, the

872
00:46:11,862 --> 00:46:15,622
Speaker 1: squeaky wheel gets the oil, so you know you are

873
00:46:16,342 --> 00:46:21,342
Speaker 1: biologically programmed to focus all your attention on the weakest

874
00:46:21,382 --> 00:46:24,062
Speaker 1: link and the most vulnerable, which was look for four years. Yes,

875
00:46:24,502 --> 00:46:28,782
Speaker 1: So at what point did that stop?

876
00:46:29,462 --> 00:46:29,502
Speaker 2: Like?

877
00:46:29,942 --> 00:46:32,821
Speaker 1: How did you get to the point where you trusted

878
00:46:33,542 --> 00:46:37,062
Speaker 1: his recovery and you could look at your other kids

879
00:46:37,142 --> 00:46:40,622
Speaker 1: and go mmm, I mean, I'm sure it wasn't like

880
00:46:40,701 --> 00:46:44,181
Speaker 1: a click up thing, but how did you navigate that?

881
00:46:44,701 --> 00:46:49,181
Speaker 2: So when Lewis finished treatment, we stopped doing breakfast radio

882
00:46:49,261 --> 00:46:53,422
Speaker 2: after twelve years men hughsy and he wanted to do

883
00:46:53,582 --> 00:46:55,422
Speaker 2: more stand up, which is the opposite of.

884
00:46:55,862 --> 00:46:58,261
Speaker 1: You know, did you want to keep going? No?

885
00:46:58,942 --> 00:47:01,142
Speaker 2: No, I didn't want to keep going, but I was

886
00:47:01,181 --> 00:47:03,382
Speaker 2: happy for him to make the decision. I went unhappy.

887
00:47:03,422 --> 00:47:04,982
Speaker 4: Whatever you want, Why didn't you want to keep going?

888
00:47:05,022 --> 00:47:08,941
Speaker 4: The money's amazing because I wanted to have a time

889
00:47:08,982 --> 00:47:15,702
Speaker 4: at home with yarny apropos boy, school, Yes, exactly, because

890
00:47:15,822 --> 00:47:16,981
Speaker 4: he had.

891
00:47:16,942 --> 00:47:19,622
Speaker 2: Been like from the womb untimely ripped or from the

892
00:47:19,661 --> 00:47:22,741
Speaker 2: boob untimely ripped. And I was always conscious of the

893
00:47:22,822 --> 00:47:25,582
Speaker 2: fact that we had this little one who I had

894
00:47:25,701 --> 00:47:29,462
Speaker 2: really not got to spend much time with her. If

895
00:47:29,502 --> 00:47:32,622
Speaker 2: I did, it was in between hospital visits, and you.

896
00:47:32,661 --> 00:47:35,261
Speaker 1: Know, so I took that.

897
00:47:35,542 --> 00:47:37,022
Speaker 2: It turned out to be a year. I didn't know

898
00:47:37,102 --> 00:47:39,462
Speaker 2: how long it was going to be. We finished during

899
00:47:39,462 --> 00:47:42,462
Speaker 2: breakfast radio had a gorgeous fee well. It was just beautiful,

900
00:47:42,582 --> 00:47:45,461
Speaker 2: and I thought it might be forever. You know, when

901
00:47:45,502 --> 00:47:46,661
Speaker 2: youry you.

902
00:47:47,422 --> 00:47:48,781
Speaker 1: No, it didn't worry me.

903
00:47:49,181 --> 00:47:50,542
Speaker 2: No, it didn't worry me.

904
00:47:51,181 --> 00:47:53,221
Speaker 1: But you went from making all of this money like

905
00:47:53,342 --> 00:47:56,781
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Radio particularly then not so much now, but

906
00:47:56,942 --> 00:48:00,542
Speaker 1: then big best and biggest and most high profile job.

907
00:48:00,942 --> 00:48:04,901
Speaker 1: You guys were iconic. Yeah, did you feel the need

908
00:48:05,181 --> 00:48:07,382
Speaker 1: or you just felt I need to just catch my

909
00:48:07,462 --> 00:48:09,261
Speaker 1: breath now, I think so.

910
00:48:09,542 --> 00:48:13,222
Speaker 2: And Peter uttered a phrase which as a modern woman,

911
00:48:13,422 --> 00:48:16,022
Speaker 2: I had never heard in my life, and it was

912
00:48:16,062 --> 00:48:19,062
Speaker 2: one of the greatest things any man has. It is

913
00:48:19,142 --> 00:48:23,262
Speaker 2: the greatest thing any man's ever said to me. He said, darling,

914
00:48:23,462 --> 00:48:25,901
Speaker 2: you don't have to work. I can look after both

915
00:48:25,982 --> 00:48:26,261
Speaker 2: of us.

916
00:48:27,942 --> 00:48:35,701
Speaker 1: My wowd oh, my god, suck it suck. It's like

917
00:48:35,982 --> 00:48:38,982
Speaker 1: so and I remember at the time, had you been

918
00:48:39,022 --> 00:48:41,781
Speaker 1: the breadwinner before that, Yeah, you we have a lot

919
00:48:41,822 --> 00:48:42,142
Speaker 1: of bread.

920
00:48:42,422 --> 00:48:45,821
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you need a lot of bread for six people, Yeah,

921
00:48:45,982 --> 00:48:49,622
Speaker 2: you do. And so we'd made one of those decisions,

922
00:48:49,661 --> 00:48:52,942
Speaker 2: you know, the you know, practical decision that because I

923
00:48:53,181 --> 00:48:55,381
Speaker 2: would earn more money than him, that he would.

924
00:48:55,942 --> 00:48:56,542
Speaker 1: So he did that.

925
00:48:56,701 --> 00:48:59,542
Speaker 2: Probably he was at home for probably about eighteen months,

926
00:48:59,622 --> 00:49:03,342
Speaker 2: and then it just wasn't good for him. It was

927
00:49:03,422 --> 00:49:05,221
Speaker 2: never a point of he was never like I don't

928
00:49:05,221 --> 00:49:07,822
Speaker 2: want to do this. He was never resentful or whatever.

929
00:49:07,982 --> 00:49:11,862
Speaker 2: But I'm just like working man wasn't enough for He

930
00:49:12,022 --> 00:49:15,861
Speaker 2: needs to work. Yeah, like a working dog needs to work.

931
00:49:17,022 --> 00:49:22,261
Speaker 1: So I'm working, I need to work. Yeah. Yeah.

932
00:49:22,342 --> 00:49:25,382
Speaker 2: So anyway, so it actually gave me the liberty to

933
00:49:25,462 --> 00:49:28,182
Speaker 2: say I'm going to be at home.

934
00:49:28,781 --> 00:49:29,821
Speaker 1: I'm going to be at home.

935
00:49:29,982 --> 00:49:32,142
Speaker 2: And it was such a great It only ended up

936
00:49:32,181 --> 00:49:36,381
Speaker 2: being one year, and it was a very challenging year

937
00:49:36,982 --> 00:49:39,421
Speaker 2: from what I recall, well, because I was at home.

938
00:49:40,142 --> 00:49:42,221
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to stay careful what you wish for?

939
00:49:42,942 --> 00:49:43,782
Speaker 1: I was at home?

940
00:49:44,342 --> 00:49:44,582
Speaker 2: Yeah?

941
00:49:44,661 --> 00:49:46,062
Speaker 1: Did you feel irrelevant?

942
00:49:48,982 --> 00:49:51,582
Speaker 2: I probably felt more irrelevant when we went and lived initially,

943
00:49:52,302 --> 00:49:55,062
Speaker 2: when we were in an Italian class and I said,

944
00:49:55,902 --> 00:49:58,582
Speaker 2: and I thought, I was so proud with myself. I said,

945
00:49:58,661 --> 00:50:04,062
Speaker 2: I I'm Molieria Cassa or whatever. I'm housewife. And if

946
00:50:04,102 --> 00:50:06,462
Speaker 2: I said that in Australia, at least a couple of

947
00:50:06,502 --> 00:50:06,902
Speaker 2: people in the.

948
00:50:06,942 --> 00:50:10,542
Speaker 1: Road last and go, oh yeah, Catlin brook Lod because

949
00:50:10,542 --> 00:50:12,622
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, it wasn't ironic.

950
00:50:13,022 --> 00:50:15,341
Speaker 2: She's a housewife. Yeah.

951
00:50:16,022 --> 00:50:18,142
Speaker 1: Interesting, So that was like a stripping back of ego

952
00:50:18,142 --> 00:50:19,102
Speaker 1: because nobody knew you.

953
00:50:19,181 --> 00:50:24,661
Speaker 2: That totally very great. I heartily recommend it, heartily. That's

954
00:50:24,661 --> 00:50:28,421
Speaker 2: why I do yoga, because I need I need the humiliation.

955
00:50:29,582 --> 00:50:33,022
Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. To having teenagers. What do you do

956
00:50:33,781 --> 00:50:34,701
Speaker 1: we're having teenager I.

957
00:50:34,661 --> 00:50:35,381
Speaker 2: Don't count them.

958
00:50:35,422 --> 00:50:40,301
Speaker 1: I don't count that. I don't count too high. Terrible time. No, yeah,

959
00:50:40,422 --> 00:50:44,862
Speaker 1: grown up children, I know, but I just don't. I

960
00:50:45,022 --> 00:50:45,862
Speaker 1: can't take that on.

961
00:50:46,062 --> 00:50:48,982
Speaker 2: It's like women, you know, when you go shopping with

962
00:50:49,102 --> 00:50:51,661
Speaker 2: a teenage daughter. You see it all the time at

963
00:50:51,741 --> 00:50:55,902
Speaker 2: any Westfield and there's a woman with a certain posture

964
00:50:56,622 --> 00:50:59,221
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, and the girls with it, and.

965
00:51:02,741 --> 00:51:05,462
Speaker 1: I'm just like, what are we doing? You do get

966
00:51:05,582 --> 00:51:08,022
Speaker 1: through that, Like I'm now at the point because I

967
00:51:08,142 --> 00:51:08,661
Speaker 1: know what you mean.

968
00:51:08,741 --> 00:51:09,102
Speaker 2: I've done.

969
00:51:09,382 --> 00:51:11,261
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you would ever get through it.

970
00:51:11,342 --> 00:51:14,102
Speaker 1: But my daughter, who just turned nineteen, now we can

971
00:51:14,181 --> 00:51:16,542
Speaker 1: go shopping and it's delightful. I think our girls are

972
00:51:16,582 --> 00:51:19,741
Speaker 1: the same as it's delightful, and I will actually ask

973
00:51:19,822 --> 00:51:23,302
Speaker 1: her advice and she'll give it to me without making

974
00:51:23,382 --> 00:51:24,461
Speaker 1: me feel like a piece of shit.

975
00:51:24,622 --> 00:51:27,741
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I noticed, because I'm always, I think too

976
00:51:28,221 --> 00:51:31,342
Speaker 2: maybe too aware of not giving them too much power,

977
00:51:31,701 --> 00:51:33,261
Speaker 2: because you don't want to end up being one of

978
00:51:33,302 --> 00:51:37,822
Speaker 2: those women whose self esteem has just been totally strip

979
00:51:37,942 --> 00:51:41,461
Speaker 2: mind like a sloth scratching at a tree truck. There's

980
00:51:41,582 --> 00:51:44,701
Speaker 2: nothing left because they've had years of should I wear this?

981
00:51:44,942 --> 00:51:46,701
Speaker 2: And the door's going where the gray one?

982
00:51:47,022 --> 00:51:50,382
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I can't give away too much. You can't. Can't.

983
00:51:50,982 --> 00:51:54,582
Speaker 2: Power is very important, and no matter where you find

984
00:51:54,661 --> 00:51:59,301
Speaker 2: that power, like you might be the nurturer, you might

985
00:51:59,422 --> 00:52:03,222
Speaker 2: be the cook, you might be the one who's magical

986
00:52:03,342 --> 00:52:06,301
Speaker 2: with the grandchildren. You might be doesn't matter. But you

987
00:52:06,502 --> 00:52:09,421
Speaker 2: need to have a little patch of territory that's your.

988
00:52:11,102 --> 00:52:14,302
Speaker 2: And now I've got your fucking patch of terroritory God,

989
00:52:15,422 --> 00:52:18,181
Speaker 2: thank god, no one will try not to break ash.

990
00:52:18,542 --> 00:52:20,462
Speaker 1: You're so good at this. I can't think of anyone

991
00:52:20,781 --> 00:52:23,502
Speaker 1: who is going to be better. I can't wait to

992
00:52:23,582 --> 00:52:26,382
Speaker 1: be listening every single week. And what an honor to

993
00:52:26,462 --> 00:52:29,701
Speaker 1: be your first guest. Literally no one else in the

994
00:52:29,741 --> 00:52:35,221
Speaker 1: building anyway. I love you, I love you.

995
00:52:35,982 --> 00:52:39,981
Speaker 2: Enjoy your secret square well and some suns.

996
00:52:40,142 --> 00:52:41,342
Speaker 1: You'll be the first one to know.

997
00:52:47,462 --> 00:52:52,221
Speaker 2: So Maya has left the building and you are now

998
00:52:52,382 --> 00:52:54,022
Speaker 2: in my culpable hands.

999
00:52:55,701 --> 00:52:59,942
Speaker 1: Come back me. Oh no, she's gone. I'll see you

1000
00:53:00,102 --> 00:53:00,502
Speaker 1: next week.

1001
00:53:01,302 --> 00:53:05,382
Speaker 2: The executive producer of No Filter is Naima Brown, Senior

1002
00:53:05,502 --> 00:53:12,142
Speaker 2: producer Grace Rouvre, producer Charlie Blackman, Audio production and sound

1003
00:53:12,221 --> 00:53:17,142
Speaker 2: design by Jacob Brown. And I'm your host Caitline Brook.