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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 3: On Hello, it's producer to listen here and welcome to

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Speaker 3: part two of this episode of But Are You Happy?

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Speaker 3: With actor, musician and Australia's boyfriend Rob Mills. In part

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Speaker 3: one of this chat, you heard about the time Rob

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Speaker 3: was at his lowest while in the spotlight on stage,

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Speaker 3: his experience with Idol which wasn't quite what it seemed,

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Speaker 3: and the one thing he hopes the media will just

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Speaker 3: stop talking about. If you haven't heard part one of

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Speaker 3: this chat, it's best to start there. So there's a

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Speaker 3: link in the show notes. But here is part two

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Speaker 3: of Claire Stephens chat with Rob Mills.

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Speaker 2: You are engaged, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Can you just plan our wording for us as we're

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Speaker 1: not going to it?

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Speaker 2: No, what you have to do. You have to do

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Speaker 2: what I did, which was you give yourself a really

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Speaker 2: short deadline period of time and then you actually can't

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Speaker 2: make decisions because there are no choices available.

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Speaker 1: This is good.

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Speaker 2: So it's like choose a florist. There's one forlorest who

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Speaker 2: can do it? Choose a venue. There's only one place

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Speaker 2: that has a gap, so I think that will work.

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Speaker 1: Like I confused with the amount of toothpaste choices, like

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Speaker 1: very stressful. It's very stressful. When do I want my

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Speaker 1: teeth to be whier now a little bit later or

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Speaker 1: very difficult? So we have decision paralysis. We're going away

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Speaker 1: overseas in September. You're just gonna get married of.

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Speaker 2: Just a lope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like it doesn't count anyways. You have to

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Speaker 1: come back and get married at the registry office and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think so. But maybe we'll go find

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Speaker 1: somewhere that we both like and fall in love with,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe we'll just do it there. Who knows.

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Speaker 1: At this stage, you're just looking forward to a holiday.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we'd love to get married. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a very big thing. Our life

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Speaker 1: is a gig, so like, I don't need the wedding

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Speaker 1: to be another gig. Just wanted to be, like because

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Speaker 1: I what a live band and just like have my

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Speaker 1: mates get up and sing and then that's it. That's

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Speaker 1: pretty small.

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Speaker 2: You posted in twenty twenty, and this was before your book,

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Speaker 2: and you write about it in your book. About losing

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Speaker 2: two of your friends to cancer, and you wrote in

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Speaker 2: the post I'm tired and I'm sad, and you were

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Speaker 2: really honest about not feeling good at that time. And

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Speaker 2: it was a time where a lot of people were

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Speaker 2: struggling because it was COVID. And were you in Melbourne?

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Speaker 1: D're in COVID. Yeah, yeah, we were in the city

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Speaker 1: city apartment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And why Yeah the city was so dead. It must

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Speaker 1: have been dead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it must have been a really dark time for

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Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. How has death and grief changed

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Speaker 2: how you think about your own life?

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Speaker 1: It definitely starts the clock. I'm post forty now, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: losing friends who were forty and fifty, Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty sad, pretty terrifying. Also, like cancer, why why

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Speaker 1: are they going after the good people? And the paper

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Speaker 1: the good people? I think it helps put things in

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Speaker 1: perspective and makes you maybe motivated to do the things

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Speaker 1: that you need to do in this lifetime and knowing

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Speaker 1: that you have a limited amount of time and to

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Speaker 1: use it to the best of your capabilities. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what it does, I think for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. But also yeah, during that time, it's we

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Speaker 1: talked about this before, about the importance of community, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: where are they? They're all online. It's weird, Like I

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Speaker 1: want to see people. I think I remember talking about

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Speaker 1: this about in the article, Like when we did catch up,

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Speaker 1: we just drink and then just feel worse. Like, what's

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Speaker 1: the activities that we can do together that help us

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Speaker 1: grieve and help us connect without without the booze. We

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Speaker 1: don't really have that in Australia. Yeah, super important to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge to grieve with your people during that time. That

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Speaker 1: was really really hard to do. You know, for all

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Speaker 1: the people who lost loved ones during that during that time,

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Speaker 1: I can't even even imagine not being able to go

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Speaker 1: to the hospital or not being able to be at

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Speaker 1: the funeral, Like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was unnatural. It didn't feel happens again. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: didn't feel right to not be able to be with

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Speaker 2: people when they were suffering and you were suffering and

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Speaker 2: there was this physical distance. And I think it was

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Speaker 2: a really clarifying time in terms of how important it

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Speaker 2: is to actually be with people in a real sense.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a question for you. Do you

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Speaker 1: think we've straight after everyone was like hanging out all

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Speaker 1: the time. Have we gone back again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we settled at do less. I do

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Speaker 2: less socially than I did pre COVID.

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Speaker 1: You also have a baby now, yes, But I.

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Speaker 2: Think even before baby, I think people have retreated a

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Speaker 2: little bit from society.

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Speaker 1: They forget that that was the and thing that we

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Speaker 1: were switching for. Why do we go It's me and

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Speaker 1: my job and that's all that matters. And no, you're

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Speaker 1: going to burn out again. You're going to find the thing,

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Speaker 1: oh I need of the community. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you write in your book about this idea of

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Speaker 2: men obviously needing to talk more, have more in depth conversations,

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Speaker 2: and about how often the way men do that is

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Speaker 2: side by side rather than facing each other. And it's

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Speaker 2: something that I think a lot of people will will notice.

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Speaker 2: The men in their lives are a lot better when

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Speaker 2: they're half distracted and you can have a conversation, you.

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Speaker 1: Can washing the dishes or cooking and have chats about

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Speaker 1: stuff getting to doing a task.

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Speaker 2: I read something the other day that it was kind

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Speaker 2: of written from the perspective of a man, and it said, like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not scared of being vulnerable, I'm scared of sounding stupid.

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Speaker 2: That like they feel like they don't have the words.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's part of it?

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Speaker 1: I remember talking about my about this when my book

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Speaker 1: came out. She's, like I said, generally speaking, women are

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Speaker 1: much better at communicating and talking. They've been doing it

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Speaker 1: for much longer uder age, it's encouraged. It's all these

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Speaker 1: things right, And I said, would it be okay if

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Speaker 1: women help men in this regard? Like you no, you

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Speaker 1: what woman to do? You're better add it? Just help

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Speaker 1: us help and not judge so much for not being

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Speaker 1: good at it, because I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: blokes out there that do bot to talk. They don't

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Speaker 1: have the words, so go for that walk. And also

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Speaker 1: don't do it all the time. I think as men,

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Speaker 1: we feel uncomfortable, so therefore we don't do the thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good. I like that. I'm going to use that.

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Speaker 1: But also we don't like doing it all the time

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Speaker 1: because we've already talked about it. Yeah, while you bring

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Speaker 1: this up again, we just talked about it. Let me

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Speaker 1: go away and process this, or let me go away

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Speaker 1: and think about it, or put it in a box

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Speaker 1: and I'll won't deal with it for ages. But like

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Speaker 1: they bring it up all the time, just bring it

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Speaker 1: up once, you know, and let them go and think

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Speaker 1: about it on his own maybe, but yeah, the walk

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Speaker 1: side by side, go for a drive in the car

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Speaker 1: doing a task together. Yeah, or just call up a

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Speaker 1: mate and go, can you take it for a walk

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Speaker 1: and just find out what's going on. All that stuff

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Speaker 1: helps men hold onto a lot of the research that

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Speaker 1: I did for the book Guilt Shame more so than

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Speaker 1: women versus said, I'm generally speaking, this is just the

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Speaker 1: research that I've done and it's not helpful and we

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Speaker 1: don't really know how to get out of it. For

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Speaker 1: some blokes it's too much and they just will end

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Speaker 1: their lives, which is horrific. But we do respond well

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Speaker 1: to connection to other chats are UKDA is coming up,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's really important for people to understand

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Speaker 1: that if you don't have that connection with someone, find

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Speaker 1: the person that does to have that chat. You can't

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Speaker 1: just walk up to someone you don't really know, are

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Speaker 1: you okay? Like I don't know you, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you.

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Speaker 1: No, yea. And for blokes, this takes years sometimes to

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Speaker 1: build trust with someone in order to have those conversations

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Speaker 1: and the shit banter that a lot of women hate

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Speaker 1: that blokes do. That's trust building. You know, we neg

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Speaker 1: each other, we give each other ship.

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Speaker 2: That's actually and talking about the footy whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: That is building trust, yes, and that sometimes that takes

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Speaker 1: a long time. But if we get to a place

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Speaker 1: where okay, all that shit talking. Gus Wallen talks about

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Speaker 1: it his Charity's Got Your for Life and he says,

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Speaker 1: you know, just five percent real chat would be great

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Speaker 1: amongst blokes And I'm like, oh, I probably like twenty

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Speaker 1: five yeah, but that's more men. I'm in the arts,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, five percent would great. Somewhere in the middle

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Speaker 1: there'd be awesome. But let us have our bands out,

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Speaker 1: like we can't just have real chats at the top.

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Speaker 1: It's fucking exhausting. You get compassion fatigue talking about feelings

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Speaker 1: and yuck. It's not but you do need to let

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Speaker 1: off the valve at some stage. But yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: good reminder for AUKD know that you might not be

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Speaker 1: the person, but find someone who is. And it might

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Speaker 1: be a counselor it might be a professional or or

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Speaker 1: ask them do you want to have it about this?

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Speaker 1: You know, if not, it's totally cool as well. It

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Speaker 1: shouldn't just be one day.

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Speaker 2: There's a mental health crisis among men, and I think

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Speaker 2: the struggle to kind of be vulnerable and even have

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Speaker 2: the language around how they're feeling is a huge part

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Speaker 2: of it. And you know, we know that women are

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Speaker 2: socialized talk about that stuff more and men are not.

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Speaker 1: And do you want us to you know, there's bass

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Speaker 1: sounds in it, Like I think for a lot of blokes,

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Speaker 1: I just I just had this thought, they're like, for

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Speaker 1: shit at something, give a shit about it? Yeah, going,

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Speaker 1: why are you shit at it? Like you're really shit

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Speaker 1: at this? You know, like got it from a playful

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Speaker 1: kind of perspective that might help break the ice maybe

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Speaker 1: as well. We don't like to be told off, No

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Speaker 1: one likes to be told but like going with a

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Speaker 1: playful nagging energy, maybe I don't know, like that's a

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Speaker 1: way to break down the barrier for bokes.

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Speaker 2: I am terrible because I think there is a bit

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Speaker 2: of shame that goes on in a bit of kind

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Speaker 2: of putting shit on men about this. And if anybody

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Speaker 2: just sits in it and thinks when I get ship

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Speaker 2: put on me, I'm not motivated change I'm not And

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Speaker 2: you can.

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Speaker 1: Or go towards something where I'm accepted. Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: I think is happening for say, a lot of men,

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Speaker 1: for some men. And I don't want to overconflate the

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Speaker 1: addrew Tate supporters of this world who are Yeah, blocks

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Speaker 1: are awesome. Yeah, blocks are awesome. They can also be

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Speaker 1: kind and compassionate and vulnerable as well.

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Speaker 2: It's giving them creation.

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Speaker 1: What have you got a vagina like whatever? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, he's not your messiah. No, no, no

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Speaker 1: one is. Take something from from everyone is always my advice.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think for some blocks they do well.

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Speaker 1: I can't be accepted here, so I'll go to where

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Speaker 1: I am accepted, where I don't have to talk about

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Speaker 1: feelings and I can just be exactly that's helpful. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's helpful.

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Speaker 2: Little in your twenties, you experimented with your sexuality, and

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Speaker 2: it was a different time to what it is now

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Speaker 2: for people in their twenties. And I'm also interested because

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Speaker 2: you had developed a fan base of me, these really

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Speaker 2: enthusiastic girls. Was there any part of you that didn't

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Speaker 2: want to be honest about exploring a sexuality at that

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Speaker 2: time as a career move.

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Speaker 1: No, I never thought it was a career move. I

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Speaker 1: just thought it was just like personally, I just thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what this is. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I'd been with a couple of guys and I

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Speaker 1: was very honest with Georgie when we first met. She's like, going, great,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing, Like, oh, okay, this is amazing. Look, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to like put myself in the category because

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Speaker 1: it's cool, but I do consider myself probably queer, Like

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Speaker 1: I think I love the person more so than just

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Speaker 1: the sex, although I do love the sex. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I think at the time, I was like, maybe there

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Speaker 1: was shame around it, and I think that's why I

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Speaker 1: wanted to put it in the book and talk about

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Speaker 1: It's like, I think there's a lot of young men

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Speaker 1: that want to explore these things, but a fear of judgment,

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Speaker 1: Like because when you're a kid, you try out netball,

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Speaker 1: you try baseball, soccer, you try so many different things

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Speaker 1: to try and work out what you like, Like i'd

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Speaker 1: be people as well. Why is that weird? So I

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Speaker 1: think I wanted to not make other young men feel

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Speaker 1: the same way, or women or trans kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: feel othered. It just is, and who cares? Who cares

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Speaker 1: how you feel about other people society who get Like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: who cares? It doesn't actually make a difference in their

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Speaker 1: day to day but it matters to you. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: go explore, do the things, try it out. I'm enjoying

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Speaker 1: the rise in people coming to terms with their gender

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Speaker 1: as well. A lot of I suppose conservative people like,

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Speaker 1: but why do we care? Like they don't care.

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Speaker 2: Like, just let white people talking about it, like.

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Speaker 1: The meatia is talking about it because it's a thing

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Speaker 1: that generates clickbait. If it doesn't affect you, It's like

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Speaker 1: looking at the menu. I don't want that, then don't

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Speaker 1: it's something else? Yeah yeah, yeah, just there's something else

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Speaker 1: on the menu for you, Like, don't look at that story.

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Speaker 1: What are they talking about? It's important to them? Yeah

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Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, just like that. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: break down the taboo around it. But yeah, I like

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are more gender discussions happening and

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Speaker 1: openly happening. I think that's all it is. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they want any special prefluence or anything anyone does.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, let us exist and then just let's

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Speaker 1: break down the taboo around it or the stigma.

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Speaker 2: Up next a message from his fiance that brings Rob

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Speaker 2: to tears. When you think about your own life and

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Speaker 2: you think about potentially being an old man and looking

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Speaker 2: back on your life, what do you think it's going

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Speaker 2: to have been that made you the happiest? Oh?

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Speaker 1: This is good. Can I tell you a fun story?

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Speaker 1: Few years ago, I was doing some work with the

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Speaker 1: Reach Foundation, which I started by Jim Steins and Paul Curry.

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Speaker 1: Is excellent. We love Reach that you go out and

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Speaker 1: do empowering workshops for kids all across the country. They're fantastic.

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Speaker 1: And one of the workshops I went to, we all

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Speaker 1: had to get up and give our own eulogy. They'd

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Speaker 1: set up a casket or like a makeshift casket, and

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Speaker 1: you stood up in front of it and you did

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Speaker 1: your own eulogy and you talked about your own life.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what did you say?

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Speaker 1: I said to the thousands and attendance and the millions

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Speaker 1: watching around the world. I wanted to start with a gag,

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Speaker 1: just to break my own I remember talking about having

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Speaker 1: performed at some of the world's best stages, and which

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Speaker 1: I still think is highly possible. Although very tight. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've probably had a lot more drive in me. That's

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Speaker 1: probably fifteen years ago. If I look back when I'm older,

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Speaker 1: just the really great life and that had helped people

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Speaker 1: along the way feel better about themselves. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what I whether it's through entertaining them on the stage

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Speaker 1: or it's just a one on one cover station and

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Speaker 1: I've fustered really good friendships. I think that's something I

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Speaker 1: have struggled with my entire life, but it's something I

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Speaker 1: would like to get better at and to finally have

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Speaker 1: learned a lot of songs on guitar, which I keep

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Speaker 1: putting on this pod. Jervy Show will help me face

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Speaker 1: my fears of playing guitar in front of people.

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Speaker 2: Before I asked my last question, be.

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Speaker 1: A good dad, I should also put it and be

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Speaker 1: a good dad.

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Speaker 2: So you want kids?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, yeah, just like just wait, just waiting. At

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Speaker 1: least we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: It before we ask our last question. We did have

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Speaker 2: one little thing that we did as a bit of

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Speaker 2: a gift for you, and it is a lovely little

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Speaker 2: message from your Beyonce Georgie II.

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Speaker 1: They are my favorite.

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Speaker 4: I am thinking that you may have been talking a

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Speaker 4: little bit about me on this podcast. Hopefully you focus

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Speaker 4: on my smart sex equalities and not just how average

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Speaker 4: I am at domestic duties.

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Speaker 1: I've not said any of this, and if you've been.

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Speaker 4: Talking about me, what on earth have you been talking about?

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Speaker 4: But since this podcast is largely about happiness and our

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Speaker 4: relationship with it, I know that Claire has a very

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Speaker 4: important question to ask you very very soon.

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Speaker 1: Hi Claire, by the way, it's like she's here.

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Speaker 4: I just thought, though, Robert, that I would remind you

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Speaker 4: how much happiness you bring to my life and everyone

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Speaker 4: who's lucky enough to know you. I think that a

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Speaker 4: lot of the time we make our own luck. But

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Speaker 4: when it comes to you, Robert Mills, anyone who knows you,

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Speaker 4: who's lucky enough to know you to meet you, has

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Speaker 4: won the fucking lottery. You are the kindest, most generous

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Speaker 4: and joyous soul that I have met. I'm so lucky, fortunate, blessed,

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Speaker 4: enter another synonym here. That I fell in love with

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Speaker 4: you and that you fell in love with me. You're

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Speaker 4: first to keep learning and stay curious is number one hot,

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Speaker 4: but number two I think what makes you the most remarkable?

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Speaker 4: I truly think that the universe put you on this

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Speaker 4: planet to spread joy. I do worry though, that sometimes we,

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Speaker 4: myself included those around you, maybe take too much of

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Speaker 4: your joy, and that scares me because you are the

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Speaker 4: most precious thing, and precious things are usually finite. So

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Speaker 4: I am so happy that I can make sure that

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Speaker 4: your will does not run dry as we continue this

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Speaker 4: crazy little thing called life together. I'm so happy I

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Speaker 4: get you all of you, the hard stuff, the great stuff,

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Speaker 4: because I want it all, all of it. There's no

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Speaker 4: one else I'd want to ride this cecil with. I

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Speaker 4: love you.

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Speaker 1: We got Chash's very good. She's very good.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel listening to.

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Speaker 1: That god I talk about feelings? It feels Great's yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's very wonderful. It's very lovely to hear lovely things

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Speaker 1: about yourself. It's a weird thing. As I said, when

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Speaker 1: you have the imposter syndrome, sometimes you forget You're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't make a difference, or it is nice to hear,

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Speaker 1: especially from your person. I was like, where was that

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Speaker 1: the therapy session? Yeah, that's not true. She is the

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Speaker 1: best and I actually feel the same about her. And

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Speaker 1: I'm super lucky to have met someone who brings so

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Speaker 1: much sunshine to everyone around her.

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Speaker 2: So, Rob Mills, you have you have an impressive career.

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Speaker 2: Youah fans all over the country. You feel feared is

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Speaker 2: with people who want to see you perform, and you

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Speaker 2: bring joy to people through entertainment. But are you happy?

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Speaker 1: I am very happy at the moment, Like whatever first

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Speaker 1: world problems that I have at the moment, overall, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a million percent. Like We've never lived in a happier,

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Speaker 1: safer time or country in the world. Like I am happy.

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Speaker 1: I'm very lucky. I've got good friends, I've got a

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Speaker 1: great career, and especially very very lovely partner to help

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Speaker 1: me ride the seesaw.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to give space on this season to really

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Speaker 2: talk about men and mental health and what we need

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Speaker 2: to change in order to normalize vulnerability and help seeking

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Speaker 2: among men. I think Rob's candidness when it comes to

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Speaker 2: his own mental health struggles, even when they're quite serious,

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Speaker 2: as well as what he he finds helpful and what

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Speaker 2: he really doesn't, is particularly enlightening. I'm not sure that

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Speaker 2: shame is a driver of changing behavior, and I think

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Speaker 2: sometimes we shame men for the way they communicate, but

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Speaker 2: shame pushes people further and further away into isolation, and

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Speaker 2: that isn't what any of us want. The idea that

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Speaker 2: when men are doing that weird thing where they hang

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Speaker 2: out and don't seem to speak about anything big, they're

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Speaker 2: actually building trust is a very good point. Join me

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Speaker 2: next week for a chat with Olympian Ariane Titness about

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Speaker 2: what success actually means to her and why she says

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Speaker 2: swimming as only a small component of who she is.

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Speaker 1: I swim, I'm not a swimmer.

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Speaker 5: Swimming is an aspect of my life, and at the

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Speaker 5: moment it's a major aspect of my life, but it's

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Speaker 5: not who I am, and I know that who I

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Speaker 5: am as a person has way more to offer the

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Speaker 5: world than and what my swimming does. A lot of

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Speaker 5: people never ever, ever wanted a.

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Speaker 2: Piece of me before all this success came. On last

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Speaker 2: week's episode, I spoke to Laura Byrne about traumatic birth,

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Speaker 2: the impossible balance of being a mum and leaning into

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Speaker 2: your career ambitions, and the moment she found love on

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Speaker 2: TV and it was nothing like what she expected. There's

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Speaker 2: a link in the show notes to listen to that episode.

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Speaker 2: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review and

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Speaker 2: share it with anyone you think we'll enjoy it. If

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Speaker 2: you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, you can

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Speaker 2: get in touch with me. My Instagram handle is Claire

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Speaker 2: dot Stevens, or you can email us here at podcast

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Speaker 2: at mummeya dot com dot au. Some of my favorite

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Speaker 2: interviews have been suggestions from our listeners. This episode was

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Speaker 2: produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik.

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Speaker 2: See you next week

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Speaker 1: Two two