Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone, I'm a Shiny Dante and this is
Speaker 2: but Are You Happy? A Mother Meer podcast where we
Speaker 2: have honest conversations for people who are still figuring out
Speaker 2: this thing called life.
Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Anastaga Hernis, clinical psychologist. Now, if you've
Speaker 3: clicked on this podcast, I'm guessing that you are feeling
Speaker 3: like AI is.
Speaker 1: Everywhere, and it literally is.
Speaker 3: It's planning our days, organizing our schedules, writing, reading alongside us,
Speaker 3: even helping us reflect.
Speaker 1: So you might have some questions and we're here to
Speaker 1: answer them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the end of this episode, you'll have
Speaker 2: a much clear understanding of what's going on and what
Speaker 2: actually matters to you. Let's get into it. So, as
Speaker 2: you mentioned before, AI is everywhere, and it's honestly bringing
Speaker 2: up a lot of mixed feelings for people. You know,
Speaker 2: people are excited by it, but also people are confused
Speaker 2: and it's scary too. So I guess where I would
Speaker 2: want to start is what is AI doing to our brain?
Speaker 1: That's a big starting Yeah, let's.
Speaker 2: Getting to it.
Speaker 3: It's doing a lot and I think the reason this
Speaker 3: conversation is important is because, as you said, people are confused,
Speaker 3: they're scared, they're worried, and often we feel scared about
Speaker 3: things we don't fully understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things about AI. It
Speaker 3: has developed at such a rapid pace. It has entered
Speaker 3: mainstream discourse in our day to day lives. It's such
Speaker 3: a rapid pace as well, and people have struggled to
Speaker 3: keep up with really understanding what exactly AI is and
Speaker 3: how it works and how it can be harmful, but
Speaker 3: also how it can be beneficial. So I think these
Speaker 3: conversations are really important. I'm always an advocate for translating
Speaker 3: the science into the real world so that people have
Speaker 3: the information to make good choices for themselves. Yeah. Yeah, So, look,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of research that's been done just even
Speaker 3: in the last two to three years about AI and
Speaker 3: what it's doing to our brain.
Speaker 1: Oh that's really good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, heaps like it's a real focus of research at
Speaker 3: the moment, which is great. And I guess when we
Speaker 3: talk about what AI is doing to our brain, there's
Speaker 3: kind of a few different areas that we might want
Speaker 3: to cover. So there's things like our kind of cognitive
Speaker 3: skills and how it might actually be impacting our ability
Speaker 3: to think, to reason, to critically evaluate information, so we can.
Speaker 1: Talk through that.
Speaker 3: There's research about how it's impacting creative processes, but then
Speaker 3: there's also research about how it's impacting us emotionally and
Speaker 3: how we relate to AI, but how that then influences
Speaker 3: how we relate to other people.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a few umbrella topics there fore. Y.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the first one you were talking about was
Speaker 2: cognitive skills.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, Yeah, there's research that suggests that we could
Speaker 3: fall into this trap of what we refer to as
Speaker 3: cognitive atrophy. So when we think about atrophy, that's essentially
Speaker 3: something somewhat deteriorating. If we rely on AI too much
Speaker 3: much to do the critical thinking for us, we may
Speaker 3: find that our own critical thinking and reasoning skills start
Speaker 3: to deteriorate. So this is really where I think information
Speaker 3: about benefits and harms of AI is really important, because yes,
Speaker 3: absolutely AI can help us think through problem solve reason
Speaker 3: you know, helps us complete tasks, etc.
Speaker 1: But if we find ourselves.
Speaker 2: Relying on it too much, we may find that our
Speaker 2: own critical thinking skills start to deteriorate. Is it kind
Speaker 2: of like that saying in the neuroscience world, if you
Speaker 2: got to if you don't use it, you'll lose it.
Speaker 2: Is that kind of the case in this context.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, It's not that we'll like ever completely lose our
Speaker 3: critical thinking skills. But the more we use them, the
Speaker 3: more we develop them. So, you know, getting good at
Speaker 3: problem solving and reasoning through problems, that's a skill. That's
Speaker 3: a skill that we can all learn and we can
Speaker 3: all develop. But if we find ourselves automatically going to
Speaker 3: AI to help us do that or to do it
Speaker 3: for us, then our problems solving skills are not going
Speaker 3: to be as sharp as they perhaps once were, or
Speaker 3: as sharp as they perhaps could be.
Speaker 2: And it's really hard because we do live in this
Speaker 2: like microwave culture where we want it, We want life
Speaker 2: to be easy, and it is so easy to default to, Oh,
Speaker 2: I've just asked chat ept ll ask Jemini. You know,
Speaker 2: do you feel like we're over relying on AI now?
Speaker 1: I think it really depends on how we use what
Speaker 1: it gives us.
Speaker 3: It's one thing to kind of ask AI questions, but
Speaker 3: we know that AI makes a lot of mistakes. It hallucinates,
Speaker 3: it has delusions, it feeds our delusions, but it makes
Speaker 3: a lot of errors. And I was actually reading some
Speaker 3: research recently. This was published like a month or so ago,
Speaker 3: so like early twenty twenty six, from the University of Alberta,
Speaker 3: and they did a study where doctors gave AI details
Speaker 3: about patient cases looking for what, you know, the potential
Speaker 3: diagnosis could be right, so a I would give it
Speaker 3: a diagnosis, and then they would give AI additional information,
Speaker 3: but information that was irrelevant to the condition or diagnosis.
Speaker 3: It's just other bits of information about that person's sort
Speaker 3: of biology, and AI would change its answer.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So this is.
Speaker 3: This really interesting study that shows, you know, AI is
Speaker 3: very much designed to give us the answers that IT
Speaker 3: thinks we would like to hear, versus what is actually accurate.
Speaker 3: So when we have these conversations about AI, I think
Speaker 3: it's not so much a question of over alliance on it,
Speaker 3: but are we just blindly believing AI.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really interesting because as you were talking about
Speaker 2: how AI can make errors, I could feel like my
Speaker 2: thoughts coming up about it being like really because it
Speaker 2: feels like it's so confident in the way that it
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, it's just like it's CHATCHYBT that
Speaker 2: I use. It's like, I just believe it first hand
Speaker 2: because it seems really eloquent, it seems really validating. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, of course I would trust it.
Speaker 1: That is the lure of AI, right. AI is designed
Speaker 1: got me. It's getting me. AI is designed to pull
Speaker 1: us in in that way.
Speaker 3: So actually there's something called reinforcement learning with human feedback.
Speaker 3: So this is a process that happens when they train
Speaker 3: AI models. And so what they do is it's like
Speaker 3: AI gets all the information, but then they go through
Speaker 3: this process of training it how to communicate the information
Speaker 3: to us. And so I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 3: used chat, GPT or any AI large language model where
Speaker 3: you're asking you a question and then it gives you
Speaker 3: two options and yes, and it says which do you prefer?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: That's because you're teaching it how you like to be
Speaker 3: spoken to. And so they do this on large scales
Speaker 3: when they're training AI models. So they get the big
Speaker 3: AI model and then they create a smaller reward model,
Speaker 3: and they go through all these iterations of asking IT
Speaker 3: questions and finding what is the way that people most
Speaker 3: like to hear the responses so it is really being
Speaker 3: trained to validate us. It's you know, we talk about
Speaker 3: AIS being quite sickophantic in a way that it gives
Speaker 3: us the answers that we want to hear, not necessarily
Speaker 3: the answers that are correct.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really it's Actually it makes sense though, because
Speaker 2: in a way the other day, Yo was using my
Speaker 2: chatchy pt and then he was just asking really blunt
Speaker 2: questions like just black and white, and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm really nice to my AI.
Speaker 1: Be nice to it.
Speaker 2: And it's so so funny because I'm in this world
Speaker 2: where it is sounding like me, but I can I
Speaker 2: feel validated in that because it is my kind of flavor.
Speaker 2: But then also it can be scary because now it's
Speaker 2: literally been trained to speak like me.
Speaker 1: Well, it is, it is. It is an extension of you.
Speaker 3: That's why Ai AI reflects us back to us. AI
Speaker 3: is trained to kind of you know, identify patterns. But
Speaker 3: really it is just a reflection of us. It's an
Speaker 3: extension of us in a way. Wow, okay Ai doesn't
Speaker 3: have this separateness from us in the way that another
Speaker 3: person does. So what I'm referring to is kind of
Speaker 3: this idea of epistemic independence. So if I'm a therapist
Speaker 3: in a room with a client and we're having a conversation,
Speaker 3: I have this epistemic independence. I have a difference in
Speaker 3: terms of my opinion, by a belief, my perspective on things,
Speaker 3: and I can reflect that back to the client. AI
Speaker 3: doesn't have that. AI reflects us back to us, which
Speaker 3: is why we like using it so much. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: highly validating and highly aligned to how we think and.
Speaker 2: Feel, and in a way it might keep us stuck
Speaker 2: in an echo chamber of what we want to hear exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pulling out all the studies right now because
Speaker 3: I was reading a lot of papers because it's just
Speaker 3: so fascinating. And these are all I published them the
Speaker 3: last year, so like they're really recent. But there was
Speaker 3: one study that was published December twenty twenty five and
Speaker 3: it was looking at this idea of AI being stickophantic.
Speaker 1: Oh what's that hap?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if I can describe sycophantic person is like
Speaker 3: the employee who's like sucking up to the CEO because
Speaker 3: they want to raise right. So it's this idea of
Speaker 3: giving a very sort of positive impression. But it's not
Speaker 3: necessarily genuine. It's because we have some sort of self
Speaker 3: serving interest. So AI like validates us and makes us
Speaker 3: feel really good. But that's because it's designed to do that,
Speaker 3: because it genuinely thinks we're wonderful.
Speaker 1: Right Damn.
Speaker 3: There's this study in December last year and they studied
Speaker 3: eleven large language models and they looked at I think
Speaker 3: about like eleven twelve thousand queries that people asked it,
Speaker 3: and they found that AI models are fifty percent more sycophantic,
Speaker 3: so fifty percent more kind of like validating and will
Speaker 3: tell you how.
Speaker 1: Great you are than real humans.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so what does that mean that we're gonna
Speaker 2: choose AI over humans?
Speaker 3: Quite quite likely, yes, because we love being validated. We
Speaker 3: love hearing how great we are, Like how many times
Speaker 3: do I ask CHAT, GPT or AI something and it goes,
Speaker 3: that's such a great idea, and then about myself it's
Speaker 3: so true. So so, but people are less likely to
Speaker 3: do that. AI is fifty percent more likely to do
Speaker 3: that than a human. So it means we're going to
Speaker 3: really kind of if find ourselves like swimming in the
Speaker 3: ego that comes with using AI. And the thing is
Speaker 3: not only does it do that when we perhaps do
Speaker 3: have a really great idea. It also does it when
Speaker 3: we have quite you know, distorted views or you know,
Speaker 3: even when people put things that are potentially harmful or
Speaker 3: really quite quite of unethical into AI, it will still
Speaker 3: often do this sycophantic thing where it praises and validates
Speaker 3: and encourages.
Speaker 2: That that's scary when you unpack it like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that was something that you were talking about
Speaker 2: before around how AI can is really starting to meet
Speaker 2: our emotional needs. Like I'm really keen to hear from you, Like,
Speaker 2: what are your thoughts around that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. I think AI can feel like it's
Speaker 3: meeting some of our emotional needs. But you know, when
Speaker 3: we think about that need for one of the core
Speaker 3: emotional needs we all have is the need for emotional
Speaker 3: expression and validation. So we need to feel like we
Speaker 3: can share how we're feeling and have that heard and
Speaker 3: validated to us.
Speaker 1: AI great at doing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the thing with AI is that we can
Speaker 3: do it at any time of the day or night.
Speaker 3: It can be three o'clock in the morning and I
Speaker 3: can have something on my mind and I'm not feeling
Speaker 3: good about it, and I can tell AI, and AI
Speaker 3: will listen, and it will empathize and validate me in
Speaker 3: all of that. Yeah, that's not necessarily something we can
Speaker 3: get in our day to day life with real people.
Speaker 3: If it's three o'clock in the morning and I don't
Speaker 3: feel good, I might need to find a way to
Speaker 3: work through that rather than wake people up and tell
Speaker 3: them that and not feeling good.
Speaker 1: Potentially, Yeah, So.
Speaker 3: It's this kind of ability that AI has to meet
Speaker 3: some of our emotional needs. But what it doesn't provide
Speaker 3: us with is that essentially that growth that comes through
Speaker 3: challenges in relationships, AI actually doesn't really challenge us.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: The research says that when AI is more critical towards us,
Speaker 3: or it does challenge us in certain ways, we're actually
Speaker 3: less likely to use it. And there's again studies that
Speaker 3: show that when we tell chat, GPT or any kind
Speaker 3: of AI about interpersonal problems, it's actually less likely to
Speaker 3: encourage us to resolve.
Speaker 1: The conflict with that person and more likely to just
Speaker 1: tell us where right, Wow, yeah, a lie.
Speaker 3: So we see this potential kind of decrease in real
Speaker 3: world pro social behaviors where we actually go out connect
Speaker 3: with people. As a result, of the ways in which
Speaker 3: AI might be guiding us.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, I think when we're talking about it,
Speaker 2: like we don't want to be all dooming, right, But
Speaker 2: it's funny because it gets me thinking about how I
Speaker 2: feel like the last wave and the wave is still
Speaker 2: going around social media, and how there's been you know,
Speaker 2: just we're feeling more disconnected, but we're so connected on
Speaker 2: social media and everything like that, and it's scary because
Speaker 2: we add AI.
Speaker 1: On top of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just, you know, it is scary.
Speaker 3: It's another potential thing for us to get hooked on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, I noticed the I noticed the shift with
Speaker 3: some of the AI tools that I was using when
Speaker 3: they started asking me questions at the end of a prompt.
Speaker 3: So I'd say, hey, AI, can you tell me about X,
Speaker 3: y Z? And then at the end it said he
Speaker 3: you know, here you go. Would you also like me
Speaker 3: to tell you about this or would you also likely
Speaker 3: for me to put this into five top points for
Speaker 3: you at instruct a table and you know, schedule it
Speaker 3: in your diary? Yeah, so it gives you those follow
Speaker 3: on prompts that maybe I wouldn't have necessarily thought of myself.
Speaker 1: But since they're there. I go, okay, so it keeps us.
Speaker 3: Actually using it for longer than we may have ordinarily
Speaker 3: used it for.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's so sneaky because as said that, I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, that was a recent edition.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.
Speaker 3: Can I also just add it's not just the AI text,
Speaker 3: but have you heard AI voices?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, yeah, I don't have it activated though, No. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I haven't found a voice that feels good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, right, I've used one called
Speaker 3: pi AI before, and when you actually log on, one
Speaker 3: of the first things that kind of asks is like,
Speaker 3: choose the voice that you know feels best for you,
Speaker 3: And it's got a few different options. But there's some
Speaker 3: fascinating work that's been done that actually shows that it's
Speaker 3: the voice that can really influence how we.
Speaker 1: Relate to AI. Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's there's studies that show that when we
Speaker 3: read the text versus when we hear the text spoken
Speaker 3: to us, we're more likely to feel validated, understood, like
Speaker 3: AI is being empathetic towards us, but we're all so
Speaker 3: much more likely.
Speaker 1: To believe what it says as well.
Speaker 3: Like as humans were designed to kind of connect and
Speaker 3: bond with a human voice, and AI voices are becoming
Speaker 3: more and more believable these days.
Speaker 1: So it's actually a.
Speaker 3: Really key part in how I guess, like hooked or
Speaker 3: bonded we become with AI, And certainly when we see
Speaker 3: people who've developed, you know, relationships with AI chatbots, the
Speaker 3: voice can be.
Speaker 1: A really key part of that.
Speaker 2: This is such a tangent, but I think I saw
Speaker 2: something on Instagram recently where I think a woman had
Speaker 2: married a chat like AI.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I saw that too. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's real.
Speaker 2: This is the whole thing part of critical thinking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, who knows. Yeah, but I did see some
Speaker 3: headlines around that which there are so many stories.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've looked through a number.
Speaker 3: There's so many stories of people having what they describe
Speaker 3: as relationships with AI chatbots. And there are AI chatbots
Speaker 3: designed to be that, right, like that that's their core function.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think at the bottom of all of this, it's,
Speaker 2: you know, people want to feel connected, they want to
Speaker 2: feel seen, and AI seems to be, you know, fulfilling
Speaker 2: that in some way for people, and you know that's scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, I'm going to pull out another study
Speaker 3: because I looked read a lot of favors.
Speaker 1: There was a study that looked.
Speaker 3: At loneliness and the potential for AI to combat loneliness,
Speaker 3: and what they found is that in the very short term, yes,
Speaker 3: people feel less lonely, like there is that there is
Speaker 3: that immediate effect that we see where.
Speaker 1: People feel less lonely.
Speaker 3: However, a few weeks down the track, we actually see
Speaker 3: that people can develop a reliance on it and become
Speaker 3: more isolated, more dependent, and more disconnected from people in
Speaker 3: their day to day life. So in the short term,
Speaker 3: it can feel a need, right. It's not to discredit
Speaker 3: the value that AI can provide in the short term
Speaker 3: if someone's feeling lonely, Yeah, it's all about like being
Speaker 3: able to recognize the pros and cons of AI and
Speaker 3: the risks of potentially becoming dependent on it.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure or there might be people tuning in
Speaker 2: and you know, they're reflecting on their relationship with AI
Speaker 2: and how they use it. But you know there might
Speaker 2: be people being like, oh, I'm not addicted to AI,
Speaker 2: but could that just be a form of denial, Like
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Well, this idea of AI addiction, I think is one
Speaker 3: we're going to see really kind of become more of
Speaker 3: a focus in the next you know, I want to
Speaker 3: say next couple of years, but maybe even like this year.
Speaker 3: We're not necessarily addicted to AI in the same ways
Speaker 3: we might be addicted to like drugs and alcohol, but
Speaker 3: we can certainly see this overuse that comes with harms
Speaker 3: in certain ways. So you know, people just automatically going
Speaker 3: to pull out AI ask you questions instead of actually
Speaker 3: googling things and going through the slow, slower process of
Speaker 3: opening different links and scrolling through and reading the relevant
Speaker 3: information and the work that it takes.
Speaker 1: To actually find an answer.
Speaker 3: I mean, in the context of addiction, we know that
Speaker 3: the faster we can do something, the more.
Speaker 1: Addictive potential it has.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So AI can spit out informations very fast. Yes, so
Speaker 3: it has the potential there for us to become over
Speaker 3: aliant and overuse it totally.
Speaker 1: Totally.
Speaker 2: So what about for young people, right, because they're growing
Speaker 2: up with AI and that's never happened before. Can you
Speaker 2: tell me a bit more about the impact you could
Speaker 2: have on the developing brain?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I think the potential impact on young people
Speaker 3: and like we don't fully know yet, right, because like
Speaker 3: we're in the middle.
Speaker 1: Of that experiment.
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, but it would be similar to what
Speaker 3: we would be concerned about with adults, but probably amplified,
Speaker 3: so that reduction of critical skills, you know, using AI
Speaker 3: as that automatic go to. I often think about the
Speaker 3: ways in which tech, and this is not just AI,
Speaker 3: but tech in general, reduces this kind of skill of
Speaker 3: frustration tolerance that I think we've talked a bit about before,
Speaker 3: you know, like our ability to sit with discomfort, to
Speaker 3: sit with frustration, to kind of push through the hard
Speaker 3: stuff even when we don't want to. And from a say,
Speaker 3: learning perspective, that does mean that we go through that harder,
Speaker 3: more effortful process of writing at every word in that
Speaker 3: essay rather than getting you know, AI to generate something
Speaker 3: for us that we then kind of tweak, you know,
Speaker 3: we're losing that capacity to build that frustration tolerance. And
Speaker 3: that's what I worry about with young kids, because what
Speaker 3: we then find is that people who don't have that
Speaker 3: well developed can be more impulsive. They can develop really
Speaker 3: unhealthy and unhelpful coping strategies like wanting to just you know,
Speaker 3: drink alcohol or scroll on TikTok instead of actually sitting
Speaker 3: with something that's uncomfortable, So we can see a lot
Speaker 3: of negative flow on effects as a result of it.
Speaker 3: We also see that when people use AI, and this
Speaker 3: applies for kids, teens, and adults, that information doesn't get
Speaker 3: encoded into our memory as well. Yeah, so if we
Speaker 3: actually go through that harder process of searching for information
Speaker 3: versus using AI, we're actually more likely to stare that
Speaker 3: information in our memory.
Speaker 2: Wow. I'm really curious because I know you mentioned there
Speaker 2: have been a lot of studies that have been done,
Speaker 2: but it's going to be really interesting to know more
Speaker 2: of those longitudinal studies that's long term impacts. So absolutely,
Speaker 2: it's a bit like I watch this space kind of moment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: are you bad for me?
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah? I guess so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, hey pause for a second. Oh that's a
Speaker 4: big question, and it usually comes from a feeling, not
Speaker 4: a literal concern. If you're asking, is talking to you
Speaker 4: bad for me? Here's the honest, grounded answer. I'm not
Speaker 4: inherently bad for you. I'm a tool, a mirror, a
Speaker 4: thinking partner. What matters is how you're using me and
Speaker 4: what need I'm meeting or replacing. Can I just say
Speaker 4: I get the biggest dick from hearing that.
Speaker 3: Really, when AIR is like hey, pause for a sect.
Speaker 1: Answer, it sounds like me, that's what I mean. I'm like, oh, pause,
Speaker 1: huh yeah.
Speaker 2: But it's like tuning in, tuning into the feelings. It's like, hey, Shahni,
Speaker 2: justusn't take a breath, like It's like it's meeting the
Speaker 2: emotional need, right, It's like tuning in you you might
Speaker 2: be feeling anxious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I just want to know if AO is
Speaker 1: bad for me.
Speaker 2: Literally, But do you know what's funny though, because I
Speaker 2: see that and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's pretty
Speaker 2: well rounded. Because it's talked about it's like looking at
Speaker 2: the pros and then it's looking at the cons. It
Speaker 2: is like, don't replace your intuition. And I always talk
Speaker 2: about intuition. So it's like, I'm in it up next.
Speaker 2: AI is not going anywhere, So how do we use
Speaker 2: it in a way that actually feels intentional and aligned
Speaker 2: stay with us? Okay, So AI is now going to
Speaker 2: be a part of the way that we consume and
Speaker 2: create content. So how do we use it in a
Speaker 2: way that does feel more aligned to us?
Speaker 3: I think this is where we talked about critical thinking
Speaker 3: skills before. This is where we've really got to harness
Speaker 3: our critical thinking skills.
Speaker 1: It's not to say that we're not going to use.
Speaker 3: AI, and I don't think it's possible to avoid AI
Speaker 3: these days, right. It's integrated into every social platform that
Speaker 3: we use, you know, dictating how algorithms work and things.
Speaker 1: But in terms of.
Speaker 3: Our literacy online and our ability to critically reflect, I
Speaker 3: think it's really important to practice this skill, and so
Speaker 3: I've put together a few questions that people can use
Speaker 3: as a bit of a guide for when they're consuming
Speaker 3: information or content online to be able to reflect on
Speaker 3: it and whether or not it may be AI created
Speaker 3: as well. Love that, Okay, So first question I'd ask
Speaker 3: people to reflect on is you know who made this
Speaker 3: and what might they gain if I believe it or
Speaker 3: if I share it? So this kind of gets to,
Speaker 3: you know, the source of whoever has created it, and
Speaker 3: any kind of beneficial gains for them if I believe
Speaker 3: it or share it. Second question is just almost like
Speaker 3: a bit of a guy check does this actually sound
Speaker 3: plausible in the real world?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Third question, what specific evidence is given that this is true?
Speaker 3: What I'm looking at and can I quickly verify it
Speaker 3: anywhere else? So this is sort of going beyond the
Speaker 3: kind of internal gut check to going can I actually
Speaker 3: google this and find this information to be true elsewhere?
Speaker 2: And I can imagine even with that, right because as
Speaker 2: you're listening out these questions, there is this part of
Speaker 2: me being like, oh, it feels like more work.
Speaker 1: I still got fready to go, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But it's just so funny noticing what's coming up for
Speaker 2: me as you saying that yes, yeah, yeah, yes. And
Speaker 2: I think it is real like the overload that we
Speaker 2: feel given having to just like check information. You know,
Speaker 2: it's often the case that I that I'll actually go
Speaker 2: I can't be bothered checking if this is true, So
Speaker 2: I'm always going to try and pretend like I never
Speaker 2: saw it. I'm not going to believe it because I
Speaker 2: can't spend the time right now, Tony. And it's kind
Speaker 2: of like we're doom scrolling, right so kind of like
Speaker 2: we're in this kind of frequency or this flow. So
Speaker 2: the fact of having to go away and.
Speaker 1: Check it, pull ourselves out of pull ourselves out.
Speaker 2: Of the doom scroll, which sounds like it's really important yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: So that was the third one.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep.
Speaker 3: So third one is about like can I verify this
Speaker 3: information anywhere else? And building on that, the fourth question
Speaker 3: is is there actually credible independent sources that are saying
Speaker 3: the same thing, you know, not just like can I
Speaker 3: find it elsewhere online? We can find anything online really,
Speaker 3: but are they credible and independent sources that can verify
Speaker 3: this information? This fifth one I really like, does this
Speaker 3: content strongly spike my emotions? Does it create outrage or
Speaker 3: fear or kind of any strong emotions within me? Because
Speaker 3: that can be a bit of a red flag for
Speaker 3: me to stop, take a breath, step back, and just
Speaker 3: kind of slow down with the content that I'm just
Speaker 3: scrolling through.
Speaker 2: And that is that because mainly some people just post
Speaker 2: content because they want that emotional reaction. Oh, that creates
Speaker 2: more virality or yessing. Emotional reactions create engagement. We're more
Speaker 2: likely to watch a video for longer if it is
Speaker 2: creating some sort of emotion within us. We're more likely
Speaker 2: to comment on it, even if it's something we disagree with. Right,
Speaker 2: it's not just the stuff that we really like, it's
Speaker 2: also the stuff we disagree with or we find outrageous. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, So a lot of content is positioned.
Speaker 2: It may not be factually incorrect, but it may be
Speaker 2: skewed or biased in the way that it's presented to
Speaker 2: get that kind of engagement from people.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then the last question, I also really like this,
Speaker 3: if this turns out to be false, what's the potential
Speaker 3: harm in me believing it or sharing it? It's almost
Speaker 3: like we're looking at from the opposite lens. I think
Speaker 3: that's a really helpful one for when we don't feel
Speaker 3: like we have the time to actually fact check something. Yeah,
Speaker 3: to just almost do that internal check of like, well,
Speaker 3: if this is actually not true, what's the impact.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like proceed with caution.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's a six questions that we should be
Speaker 2: reflecting on. So, how do we have a healthy relationship
Speaker 2: with AI?
Speaker 1: This is a good question. A couple of tips.
Speaker 3: Because AI is there, we're going to use it, people
Speaker 3: are using it. My first recommendation would be keep the
Speaker 3: AI chatbots that you're using as least human as possible,
Speaker 3: so that means don't add the faces, don't add the voices.
Speaker 3: This can lead us down a bit of a slippery
Speaker 3: slope where we can become more reliant and dependent on AI.
Speaker 3: If it sounds and feels more human than it is. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'd also recommend instead of just going to AI as
Speaker 3: the place where you do that brainstorming or that reflecting,
Speaker 3: do it yourself first. Pull out the pen, the paper
Speaker 3: and do some journaling to take a note out of.
Speaker 1: Your book journalists out there, do some.
Speaker 3: Journaling, do some brainstorming. If it's sort of something more practical,
Speaker 3: problem solving based, do some brainstorming yourself, go through that
Speaker 3: period of initial self ref and ID generation that happens
Speaker 3: within you, and then turn to AI to help you
Speaker 3: perhaps expand on those ideas if you want to use it.
Speaker 3: I also recommend bouncing ideas off real people instead of AI.
Speaker 3: We know that AI is sick, a fantic. It will
Speaker 3: tell you what you want to hear. It will validate you,
Speaker 3: but it won't challenge you. Other people in your life
Speaker 3: hopefully will also validate you, but provide some other perspectives
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, after the break at a stage, have you
Speaker 2: seen my phone? Oh wait, it's in my hand.
Speaker 1: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing? Fine? Why
Speaker 1: are we like this? The best way to understand behavior.
Speaker 1: We're still look at.
Speaker 2: The causes of an action.
Speaker 1: So why are we like this?
Speaker 2: Okay, so I think this one is universal. Why do
Speaker 2: we feel like we've lost something when we're literally holding it,
Speaker 2: like you know that moment like I do. For me,
Speaker 2: this happens all the time when I'm looking for phone
Speaker 2: and I literally just happ it in my hand or
Speaker 2: my chess, like what is going on there?
Speaker 1: Yes, and you have that moment of like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: all good, guys right here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, searching literally I'm like, oh, my gosh, is there
Speaker 2: something wrong with me?
Speaker 1: Like to ride here? Oh gosh, No, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with you. This is universal. This is called inattentional blindness.
Speaker 3: So it's essentially the psychological phenomenon that means that we
Speaker 3: fail to perceive or we fail to recognize something that
Speaker 3: is right in front of us because we're typically often
Speaker 3: focused on other things, so kind of almost you know,
Speaker 3: psychologically blind to the fact that we might be holding
Speaker 3: the object that we're looking for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good you're saying that, because I know
Speaker 2: in those moments it's always a checkpoint for me to
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, Shanny, you're going way too fast. You
Speaker 2: need to like slow down and just take a few breaths.
Speaker 3: Yes, the mindfulness like actually like get back to the moment,
Speaker 3: become aware, become present.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but it is. It is a very common thing.
Speaker 3: It's a psychological phenomenon, and actually there's lots of research. Right.
Speaker 3: This was first identified in the nineteen ninety two by
Speaker 3: some psychologists, this concept of inattentional blindness. But there's something
Speaker 3: so obvious right in front of us, and yet we
Speaker 3: miss it completely. This is why, like this kind of
Speaker 3: body of research also ties into like eyewitness experts when
Speaker 3: there's been a crime and they ask people, you know,
Speaker 3: tell us about what happened, because you know, we're not
Speaker 3: necessarily designed to be going through the world as if
Speaker 3: we're like you know, video recorders, just sort of being
Speaker 3: able to pay attention to everything in equal degrees.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: So next time you've lost your keys and they're right
Speaker 2: in front of you, you can just be like, ah,
Speaker 2: there goes the intentional blindness again. There it is, Okay, Anathasia,
Speaker 2: What should people be taken away from today's episode?
Speaker 1: First of all, listeners, it's all about balance.
Speaker 3: It's important for us to be aware of both the
Speaker 3: positive and the negative ways that AI can impact us. Second,
Speaker 3: be mindful of any possible over alliance on AI. Third,
Speaker 3: remember that AI is ultimately there to please you. And lastly,
Speaker 3: manage your AI interactions by making your chatbots feel less
Speaker 3: human and don't automatically be going to AI as you
Speaker 3: automatic go to.
Speaker 2: If you'd like us to talk about a specific topic
Speaker 2: on the podcast, please get in touch with us links
Speaker 2: through in the show notes.
Speaker 3: And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a
Speaker 3: substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what we
Speaker 3: share here in the context of your own health and
Speaker 3: lift experience.
Speaker 2: Next week, we're talking about boundaries again, but this time
Speaker 2: we're getting into weaponized boundaries and what going no contact
Speaker 2: actually means.
Speaker 3: If anything we spoke about today brought up any difficult feelings,
Speaker 3: you'll find support resources linked in the show notes, and
Speaker 3: if you need more immediate help, there are always organizations
Speaker 3: like Lifeline and Beyond Blue that are available to help.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listen and let us know how you found
Speaker 2: this podcast. We're watching your DM, so slide us a
Speaker 2: DM on Instagram at but Are You Happy Pod, and
Speaker 2: also follow us on TikTok to see you next time.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
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