WEBVTT - The Day You Disappear 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.767 that this podcast is recorded on. I can do a 0:00:23.807 --> 0:00:27.047 neat trick. I can disappear at wills. 0:00:29.047 --> 0:00:30.207 You probably can too. 0:00:31.167 --> 0:00:33.487 It's a skill that wasn't available to us when we 0:00:33.487 --> 0:00:37.407 were younger, and I's first turned in our direction, sliding 0:00:37.447 --> 0:00:41.007 over us on the street, at work, in shops and bars, 0:00:41.047 --> 0:00:47.087 and any space where we dared to exist, to judge us, slice, categorize, conquer. 0:00:47.607 --> 0:00:52.607 But now now we can slip through shops barely turning ahead, 0:00:53.127 --> 0:00:56.447 vanish instantly when leaning on a bar, and our voices 0:00:56.487 --> 0:00:59.847 when offering an opinion. Only dogs can hear it. I 0:00:59.887 --> 0:01:02.327 could lift a young man's phone from his hand before 0:01:02.327 --> 0:01:05.607 he noticed I was right there. I could collect sensitive 0:01:05.607 --> 0:01:09.647 intelligence from the finest spies while pretending to whirdle alongside them. 0:01:10.207 --> 0:01:13.127 And I am deliciously free to walk a street without 0:01:13.207 --> 0:01:17.087 cat call or comment. There are upsides to being invisible, 0:01:17.127 --> 0:01:18.367 you see, but. 0:01:18.447 --> 0:01:21.327 Generally it's a jolt. Do we still. 0:01:21.087 --> 0:01:24.207 Exist if we're harder to see? Does it matter what 0:01:24.287 --> 0:01:26.167 we say, or what we want or what we know 0:01:26.287 --> 0:01:30.407 if we're considered an amorphous lump of looser bodies, frizzier hair, 0:01:30.487 --> 0:01:33.847 flatter feet. If we are invisible, not just out in 0:01:33.887 --> 0:01:36.847 the wild, but in parliaments and boardrooms and on screens 0:01:36.847 --> 0:01:38.767 and in our ears and in the pages of books, 0:01:39.047 --> 0:01:43.287 will we ever even hear? Invisible women lose sight of 0:01:43.327 --> 0:01:46.847 themselves too. That's why we start trying so hard to 0:01:46.887 --> 0:01:49.567 stay seen, to remember who we were and who we 0:01:49.607 --> 0:01:53.407 are still becoming. There are some different tactics to being 0:01:53.487 --> 0:01:55.647 visible to the seeing eye, and we might try all 0:01:55.687 --> 0:01:59.367 of them. Paint on a bold lip, iron out our creases, 0:01:59.687 --> 0:02:03.807 cover our hair, silver stripes, wear a wild print, those thick, 0:02:03.887 --> 0:02:08.327 colorful specks, a statement, earring all of it, saying still here, 0:02:08.767 --> 0:02:11.207 see me pe color and movement over here? Can you 0:02:11.207 --> 0:02:16.007 still hear me? If I complain really loud? How about now? 0:02:16.967 --> 0:02:19.687 The trick is you, see, to lean into the soft 0:02:19.807 --> 0:02:22.767 power in visibility gives us. Now that we're not only 0:02:22.807 --> 0:02:26.047 defined by how firm and fuckable we are, while still 0:02:26.087 --> 0:02:30.807 feeling like ourselves, staying bright and in sharp focus of 0:02:30.847 --> 0:02:35.207 our own clear sight. I can do a neat trick now. 0:02:35.247 --> 0:02:40.927 Maybe you can too, The incredible invisible woman, watch your wallet. 0:02:43.927 --> 0:02:45.647 Hello, I'm Holly. 0:02:45.367 --> 0:02:51.207 Wainwright and I am mid midlife, midfamily, mid disappearance. Today 0:02:51.367 --> 0:02:55.007 I'm talking to a woman who turned midlife invisibility into 0:02:55.047 --> 0:02:59.367 a significant advantage. While no one was looking. She wrote 0:02:59.367 --> 0:03:01.847 a novel so clever and funny and sharp about this 0:03:01.967 --> 0:03:05.047 time of life. Hollywood are after it, and it all 0:03:05.087 --> 0:03:10.807 came from a particular shit moment. Jane Tara is a 0:03:10.847 --> 0:03:13.927 writer who has written lots of children's books, who has 0:03:14.007 --> 0:03:17.087 worked with and close to books for many years. But 0:03:17.207 --> 0:03:20.447 the year she turned fifty, things were going to poop. 0:03:20.927 --> 0:03:24.087 The year she turned fifty, she had been hospitalized with pneumonia, 0:03:24.447 --> 0:03:27.287 she'd lost her business, and her partner of a decade 0:03:27.327 --> 0:03:30.167 broke up with her by text. She sat on a 0:03:30.167 --> 0:03:33.407 beach and decided to change her life, which is the 0:03:33.447 --> 0:03:36.327 way a lot of my favorite stories start. Of course, 0:03:36.527 --> 0:03:41.167 changing a life is no small matter, especially when you're invisible. 0:03:41.767 --> 0:03:43.687 But Jane did it, and a lot of what we 0:03:43.727 --> 0:03:46.807 talk about today is about the how, as well as 0:03:46.807 --> 0:03:50.567 a discussion of how her book Tilda Is Visible, nails 0:03:50.607 --> 0:03:54.047 this part of life. This conversation is a bit self helpy, 0:03:54.247 --> 0:03:58.407 a touch woo woo, and also pretty practical. It's for 0:03:58.527 --> 0:04:01.167 you if you don't understand why everyone keeps telling you 0:04:01.207 --> 0:04:04.527 to meditate? What the hell phrase is like, show up 0:04:04.527 --> 0:04:08.487 for yourself, do the work and enoughness actually mean? And 0:04:08.647 --> 0:04:12.287 also if you just love a bloody good story. So 0:04:12.407 --> 0:04:16.287 here we go. Two invisible women make a podcast. Meet 0:04:16.367 --> 0:04:23.847 Jane Tara on how to bring yourself back into focus. Jane, 0:04:24.327 --> 0:04:27.527 this is the most wonderful idea for a book ever. 0:04:27.927 --> 0:04:29.607 Can I tell the audience about it? 0:04:29.927 --> 0:04:30.847 Yes? Please? 0:04:31.087 --> 0:04:31.407 Okay? 0:04:32.807 --> 0:04:35.287 Friends. Tilda is fifty two. 0:04:35.927 --> 0:04:39.447 She is a divorced mother of young adult children, living 0:04:39.447 --> 0:04:43.127 a seemingly great life, owning her own small business, living 0:04:43.127 --> 0:04:45.207 in her own home in a desirable bit of Sydney. 0:04:45.527 --> 0:04:48.887 She's got good friends around her. And then one day 0:04:48.967 --> 0:04:53.207 she wakes up and she realizes that she's becoming invisible. 0:04:54.047 --> 0:04:57.487 Her little finger is missing, but it hasn't gone. It's there, 0:04:57.847 --> 0:05:01.247 but she can't see it. And then her ear, and 0:05:01.247 --> 0:05:05.887 then her thumb. And she goes to the doctor and Jane, 0:05:06.047 --> 0:05:08.607 you tell me what the doctor diagnoses Tilda with. 0:05:09.407 --> 0:05:14.207 The doctor diagnoses Tilda with invisibility, and it turns out 0:05:14.247 --> 0:05:18.727 to be a not uncommon condition for women of a 0:05:18.727 --> 0:05:23.327 certain age. And Tilda goes on this journey where she 0:05:23.407 --> 0:05:26.887 meets other women who are at different stages of invisibility, 0:05:27.207 --> 0:05:30.727 and you know, it looks for a way to cure 0:05:30.807 --> 0:05:33.847 a supposedly incurable condition. 0:05:34.567 --> 0:05:38.967 It's so clever, Jane, because the initial stages of this, 0:05:39.647 --> 0:05:42.047 when the doctor is talking to her and saying it's 0:05:42.087 --> 0:05:45.927 an incurable condition, there's a support group, like there's a 0:05:45.967 --> 0:05:50.407 local support group of other women. Tilda starts googling, as 0:05:50.447 --> 0:05:53.167 of course she would, and she finds there's very little 0:05:53.167 --> 0:05:57.087 research done on invisible women's surprise, surprise, so no one's 0:05:57.127 --> 0:06:00.527 really sure if it's hormone related. Early symptoms include being 0:06:00.567 --> 0:06:04.567 overlooked by the servers in shops and bars, and there's 0:06:04.607 --> 0:06:08.207 no known cure. As you say, it's so funny and clever. 0:06:09.247 --> 0:06:11.927 Want to start with the question that I'm sure you 0:06:12.047 --> 0:06:14.167 have been asked many times, but we need to ask 0:06:14.967 --> 0:06:18.167 when did you get the first symptoms of invisibility. 0:06:18.647 --> 0:06:21.967 It's interesting because at a couple of events recently, people 0:06:22.047 --> 0:06:24.607 have told me that when they were reading the book 0:06:24.687 --> 0:06:27.327 that they've actually googled to see if it's a real conversion. 0:06:27.447 --> 0:06:29.687 And I've jumped in at that point and said, well, 0:06:29.727 --> 0:06:33.007 it is, like it actually is a real condition. It 0:06:33.087 --> 0:06:38.087 really is women. Generally from my personal experience and also 0:06:38.167 --> 0:06:42.567 talking to women, the forties seems to be key for this. 0:06:43.007 --> 0:06:47.007 We're juggling a lot in our forties, particularly if you 0:06:47.087 --> 0:06:49.847 have kids, and you're juggling all of that sort of stuff, 0:06:49.887 --> 0:06:52.327 and you're working and you've got all these balls in 0:06:52.367 --> 0:06:59.607 the air, and it collides with perimenopause and any unaddressed 0:06:59.687 --> 0:07:03.887 trauma or you know, past issues that you have sort 0:07:03.887 --> 0:07:06.767 of come home to roost at that particular point as well, 0:07:07.367 --> 0:07:12.007 and it's just this show of cortisol and stress and 0:07:12.247 --> 0:07:17.167 hormones and often deep seated grief and you're trying to 0:07:17.207 --> 0:07:19.807 do everything for everyone else, and at that point you 0:07:19.927 --> 0:07:22.887 start to lose sight of yourself. And that was very 0:07:23.007 --> 0:07:27.647 much my experience. And there were just little things that 0:07:27.847 --> 0:07:31.047 happened along the way where I was out in the 0:07:31.087 --> 0:07:35.687 world and suddenly I was treated in a certain way, 0:07:35.847 --> 0:07:40.407 or I wasn't seen, or there was one really, really 0:07:40.407 --> 0:07:43.407 great moment for me in my mid forties. My older 0:07:43.487 --> 0:07:46.047 son's a musician, and I was at a gig of 0:07:46.087 --> 0:07:49.487 his and I was talking to this musician who was 0:07:49.567 --> 0:07:53.167 doing kind of the staging for the band, and he 0:07:53.207 --> 0:07:55.767 was probably in his thirties and he was really hot. 0:07:56.087 --> 0:07:58.527 I was just laughing and chatting to him, thinking, oh god, 0:07:58.607 --> 0:08:00.407 you know if I was ten years younger, you know, 0:08:00.487 --> 0:08:04.247 he's a beautiful young man. At one point he goes, oh, 0:08:04.487 --> 0:08:07.767 I wish I had a mum like you, And he 0:08:08.007 --> 0:08:11.087 was for me as someone I'm so much older. It's 0:08:11.167 --> 0:08:14.607 kind of like somewhere in your thirties is still milfy 0:08:14.767 --> 0:08:17.527 or whatever. And then suddenly you take this leap, and 0:08:17.567 --> 0:08:19.687 from that point on I started to think, oh my god, 0:08:19.727 --> 0:08:22.047 I really am at that stage where people are seeing 0:08:22.087 --> 0:08:24.967 me or perceiving me in a certain way. 0:08:25.527 --> 0:08:29.687 It's often framed a little bit that it's vanity fretting 0:08:29.727 --> 0:08:34.807 about invisibility, or that it's very specifically about mourning being 0:08:34.927 --> 0:08:37.727 viewed in an objectively sexual way, like oh I don't 0:08:37.727 --> 0:08:40.567 get whistled out in the street, or like I think 0:08:40.607 --> 0:08:43.167 it's more than that, though, don't you. It's this sort 0:08:43.167 --> 0:08:46.567 of recategorization of you as you're talking about, like as 0:08:46.607 --> 0:08:48.007 a different kind of person. 0:08:48.447 --> 0:08:50.647 I think generally, you start to go through it and 0:08:50.647 --> 0:08:55.127 you realize that perhaps you did use your youth and 0:08:55.167 --> 0:08:59.687 your beauty as a certain currency without realizing, and that 0:08:59.767 --> 0:09:03.927 currency has waned it is more than that. It's questioning 0:09:04.767 --> 0:09:08.327 sort of purpose and who you are, and particularly as 0:09:08.367 --> 0:09:13.007 your kids get old, and perhaps you've made sacrifices of 0:09:13.087 --> 0:09:18.927 yourself for other people around you. And I've come to 0:09:19.007 --> 0:09:23.727 realize that the way that I made sacrifices was a 0:09:23.727 --> 0:09:27.647 form of self sabotage, because we do this as women 0:09:28.127 --> 0:09:30.007 because we think we have do or we think we 0:09:30.087 --> 0:09:33.727 need to give of ourselves at a certain level for 0:09:33.807 --> 0:09:38.047 everyone else to be happy, but ultimately we don't. And 0:09:38.527 --> 0:09:40.327 you know, the greatest thing we can actually do for 0:09:40.407 --> 0:09:42.847 our kids is to be happy ourselves and not be 0:09:42.927 --> 0:09:44.367 sacrificing ourselves. 0:09:45.727 --> 0:09:49.407 Also, it's interesting because what you're talking about, it's like 0:09:49.487 --> 0:09:53.647 a dual level invisibility. There's the invisibility in the world, which, 0:09:53.647 --> 0:09:56.607 as you make the point in Tilda, sort of starts 0:09:56.607 --> 0:10:00.207 when you notice yourself just being overlooked in situations and 0:10:00.247 --> 0:10:03.807 that shift, as you say in your sexual currency, perhaps, 0:10:04.367 --> 0:10:06.687 but then there's also that invisibility to yourself. 0:10:06.727 --> 0:10:08.487 So it's like there are two levels to it. 0:10:08.487 --> 0:10:12.447 Almost absolutely, and I'm being asked about both because I 0:10:12.647 --> 0:10:18.487 tend to really write about the latter, about becoming invisible 0:10:18.807 --> 0:10:21.447 to yourself. You know, I don't think I can change 0:10:21.807 --> 0:10:24.007 the world at the moment, although there are some great 0:10:24.007 --> 0:10:29.007 people out there trying to. But it's how we view ourselves, 0:10:29.047 --> 0:10:34.407 how we perceive ourselves, and that became something of great 0:10:34.727 --> 0:10:36.767 interest to me. And one of the reasons why this 0:10:36.847 --> 0:10:41.007 all happens in your forties, at this hormonal shift in 0:10:41.047 --> 0:10:43.887 our life as well, is because we're meant to be 0:10:43.967 --> 0:10:48.127 moving into the kind of wiser woman archetype in the 0:10:48.207 --> 0:10:54.487 human experience, and we're all grabbing hold of youth. We're 0:10:54.527 --> 0:10:58.567 wanting to maintain youth because we're told by the external 0:10:58.607 --> 0:11:01.087 thing that that's what gives us the currency, that's what 0:11:01.127 --> 0:11:03.927 gives us the power. But actually there's a very deep, 0:11:04.367 --> 0:11:07.687 almost spiritual wisdom that comes with getting older as a 0:11:07.687 --> 0:11:10.087 woman and the four what is I call it the 0:11:10.207 --> 0:11:14.287 vortex that you go through that period of time and 0:11:14.327 --> 0:11:16.887 you're meant to really sink into it and work out, 0:11:17.407 --> 0:11:20.567 you know, work through your past and your traumas, and 0:11:21.247 --> 0:11:23.807 work out who you are and start to see yourself 0:11:24.047 --> 0:11:29.007 very very clearly for who you are as you age 0:11:29.727 --> 0:11:33.567 as a woman into that. It's the matriarch in society 0:11:34.127 --> 0:11:42.127 and although society doesn't particularly value that, it will more 0:11:42.247 --> 0:11:47.727 so if individually and collectively women value that, absolutely, we 0:11:47.727 --> 0:11:52.007 need to start seeing ourselves as that community family matriarch 0:11:52.167 --> 0:11:54.127 rather than trying to sort of like keep hold of. 0:11:54.087 --> 0:11:57.967 Our youth and making that something that has status, which 0:11:58.127 --> 0:12:00.527 you know, you could argue maybe it used to in 0:12:00.567 --> 0:12:03.687 a different way. Now when we talk about aging, well, 0:12:03.767 --> 0:12:07.287 we often are talking about those external markers of youth 0:12:07.447 --> 0:12:09.647 and can we hold on to it enough. My skin 0:12:09.687 --> 0:12:11.967 plump enough, is my hair shiny enough, is my body 0:12:12.327 --> 0:12:14.847 limber enough? All those things that we hold on too 0:12:14.887 --> 0:12:17.327 from youth, And that's all important, and we'll get to that, 0:12:17.407 --> 0:12:20.367 but as you say, it's this much deeper shift. I 0:12:20.407 --> 0:12:22.927 wanted to ask you before we do talk about some 0:12:23.047 --> 0:12:27.407 of that deep searching work, whether or not you think 0:12:27.447 --> 0:12:31.207 there's any advantage to the invisibility that comes in midlife, 0:12:31.247 --> 0:12:36.247 because the external invisibility, the fact that you're less noticeable 0:12:36.287 --> 0:12:38.287 in a way moving through the world, it's a shock 0:12:38.367 --> 0:12:41.207 when it happens to you, because, as you said earlier, 0:12:41.647 --> 0:12:44.447 women are kind of it's sort of pushed upon us 0:12:44.487 --> 0:12:47.967 as soon as we hit adolescents. Really that this sexual 0:12:48.047 --> 0:12:50.247 visibility is something we're going to have to figure out 0:12:50.327 --> 0:12:54.127 how to handle and use maybe as a currency to figure. 0:12:53.807 --> 0:12:54.927 Out what we do with that. 0:12:55.527 --> 0:12:58.007 And when that leaves you there can be a bit 0:12:58.047 --> 0:13:00.527 of freedom in it. I sometimes feel a bit of 0:13:00.567 --> 0:13:02.967 freedom in the fact that nobody's looking at you or 0:13:03.047 --> 0:13:07.127 expecting too much. And I read a piece by Hannah 0:13:07.247 --> 0:13:10.487 Rosen once, the American journalist who wrote, really, because no 0:13:10.527 --> 0:13:12.687 one can see you, you can shed a lot of 0:13:12.687 --> 0:13:15.127 different worries as you enter your forties and fifties, and 0:13:15.167 --> 0:13:18.567 you can create, achieve, and not play in that way anymore. 0:13:18.847 --> 0:13:21.167 There's a freedom in that invisibility that we don't take 0:13:21.247 --> 0:13:24.607 enough advantage of. Do you think that's true at. 0:13:24.527 --> 0:13:29.967 One hundred percent? But I think that I enjoy that 0:13:30.127 --> 0:13:36.247 freedom now because I see myself clearly. So we still 0:13:36.287 --> 0:13:39.527 need to be visible to ourselves, which is the point 0:13:39.567 --> 0:13:42.687 of tild up, and yet we can't do much about 0:13:42.687 --> 0:13:45.727 the people who don't see us in the external world, 0:13:46.407 --> 0:13:49.367 or the opportunities that we miss out on because we're 0:13:49.407 --> 0:13:53.287 getting older. So there are some negatives to it as well, 0:13:53.287 --> 0:13:56.447 but there are some positives, you know, just the freedom 0:13:56.527 --> 0:13:59.727 that comes with not caring, really not giving a shit. 0:14:00.367 --> 0:14:04.527 It's the great gift of aging if you can harness it. 0:14:06.247 --> 0:14:08.847 More of my conversation with Jane Tara coming up next. Well, 0:14:08.887 --> 0:14:11.287 we discs us how to harness your mind through meditation 0:14:11.407 --> 0:14:13.847 if you can manage it and finally get out of 0:14:13.887 --> 0:14:19.327 survival mode as a mid woman. I want to move 0:14:19.407 --> 0:14:22.647 to this incredible talk you gave recently at an event 0:14:22.687 --> 0:14:25.607 in Sydney called Generation Women. And you've written about this, 0:14:26.047 --> 0:14:28.647 what you've touched on already about this period in your forties. 0:14:29.127 --> 0:14:30.687 I'm going to read a little bit about it. You 0:14:30.727 --> 0:14:33.767 talk about childhood trauma, as you mentioned before. You know, 0:14:33.927 --> 0:14:35.487 often in this period of your life, a lot of 0:14:35.527 --> 0:14:37.647 stuff that you think, and we've talked about this on 0:14:37.727 --> 0:14:38.447 mid quite a bit. 0:14:38.847 --> 0:14:39.687 You think you've. 0:14:39.567 --> 0:14:42.487 Kind of managed to push away will come back in 0:14:42.567 --> 0:14:44.647 this mail stream of all the things you're going through. 0:14:45.167 --> 0:14:48.207 You write, my forties arrived, and boy were they tough. 0:14:48.327 --> 0:14:51.727 With perimenopause, my trauma magnified, and everything that I'd been 0:14:51.727 --> 0:14:54.607 trying to unsuccessfully escape was mirrored back to me and 0:14:54.647 --> 0:14:56.887 the choices I'd made in the relationship I was in. 0:14:57.287 --> 0:15:00.447 I took an emotional and psychological beating in my forties. 0:15:00.767 --> 0:15:03.367 By forty nine, my life was in free fall. Two 0:15:03.447 --> 0:15:06.967 weeks before I turned fifty I was in hospital with pneumonia. 0:15:07.407 --> 0:15:10.487 I lost my business and my I partner of a decade, 0:15:10.607 --> 0:15:12.767 and did our relationship via text. 0:15:13.527 --> 0:15:14.287 On the day I. 0:15:14.207 --> 0:15:16.567 Turned fifty write A bit later on, I sat on 0:15:16.607 --> 0:15:19.287 the beach and I watched the sunrise on a new decade, 0:15:19.367 --> 0:15:20.927 and I made a promise to myself. 0:15:21.447 --> 0:15:23.127 This cycle of heartache. 0:15:22.687 --> 0:15:25.247 And trauma and the same old shit happening in countless 0:15:25.287 --> 0:15:26.567 ways was going to change. 0:15:27.167 --> 0:15:27.847 It had to. 0:15:28.687 --> 0:15:31.167 First of all, Jane, I could cry that is so 0:15:31.407 --> 0:15:34.407 relatable in so many different ways to myself and so 0:15:34.487 --> 0:15:36.447 many women who'll be listening to this. 0:15:37.207 --> 0:15:38.127 Tell me what you did. 0:15:38.847 --> 0:15:43.047 I went home and meditated, and I've meditated Nelly every 0:15:43.127 --> 0:15:47.087 day since I write in that speech. That was nothing 0:15:47.167 --> 0:15:51.727 new to me, Like I'd experimented with self development and 0:15:51.767 --> 0:15:56.407 self help and looked for a teacher or a way 0:15:57.367 --> 0:16:00.447 out of the trauma and the pain that I was 0:16:00.487 --> 0:16:04.927 carrying around from living in a house where domestic violence 0:16:05.047 --> 0:16:08.247 was the norm. So I'd really given it a good shot. 0:16:08.287 --> 0:16:11.207 And I think I've always been really positive person and 0:16:11.967 --> 0:16:15.287 had a really interesting life, but I carried this trauma 0:16:15.407 --> 0:16:21.607 around and it had really shaped my perception of the world. Relationships, 0:16:21.727 --> 0:16:25.767 love and self love ultimately. So that particular day, I 0:16:25.807 --> 0:16:30.367 went home and I started meditating every single day and 0:16:31.007 --> 0:16:34.447 sort of incorporated it in with a bit of neuroplasticity 0:16:34.927 --> 0:16:40.967 and really addressing my internal programs. And that's been a 0:16:41.007 --> 0:16:44.767 bit of a buzzword for a few years now. But 0:16:44.807 --> 0:16:47.287 the fact is that you can change the neural pathways 0:16:47.287 --> 0:16:49.327 of your brain, you can change the way you perceive 0:16:49.367 --> 0:16:53.527 the world. You can change yourself and in fact, if 0:16:54.327 --> 0:16:58.847 your life is chaotic, if your life keeps feeding back 0:16:58.927 --> 0:17:03.407 trauma loops to you, by changing the way you think 0:17:03.447 --> 0:17:06.167 about the world is the way you're going to change 0:17:06.167 --> 0:17:07.367 your external world. 0:17:07.847 --> 0:17:10.207 So you say in there, you, as you just said, 0:17:10.247 --> 0:17:13.047 you've always been something of a searcher, and you're familiar 0:17:13.047 --> 0:17:15.407 with ideas like chakras and all that kind of thing. 0:17:16.167 --> 0:17:19.927 For people who might say, oh, I've tried meditating, like 0:17:20.287 --> 0:17:22.047 I've sat in quiet rooms and I've tried, and I 0:17:22.087 --> 0:17:23.887 can't turn my brain off and it sounds like hard 0:17:23.927 --> 0:17:25.047 work and who's got time for that? 0:17:25.087 --> 0:17:25.487 And all that? 0:17:25.967 --> 0:17:29.927 Can you explain in a way that's quite simple to us? 0:17:30.607 --> 0:17:32.727 You also, right, Tilda goes on this journey too in 0:17:32.767 --> 0:17:35.927 the book. Right, And I've heard you say that you 0:17:36.007 --> 0:17:39.127 now put meditating above everything else in your life because 0:17:39.167 --> 0:17:41.927 you know that it's the foundation, So above family, above work, 0:17:41.967 --> 0:17:42.767 above all those things. 0:17:43.727 --> 0:17:51.087 Why like how because my meditation practice has now created 0:17:51.127 --> 0:17:56.207 a space in my life that allows the external events 0:17:56.287 --> 0:17:56.847 to occur. 0:17:57.527 --> 0:18:01.167 And of course I was so reactive. My whole life 0:18:01.567 --> 0:18:05.567 was spent reacting to things, and usually at quite a 0:18:06.047 --> 0:18:09.887 high level, because I was living in survival and had 0:18:09.927 --> 0:18:12.607 been living in the hormones of stress and survival my 0:18:12.807 --> 0:18:17.607 entire life. So as that started to settle through meditating, 0:18:18.207 --> 0:18:24.127 because it affects all your chemicals, your physiological, neurobiological kind 0:18:24.207 --> 0:18:28.167 of makeup, It impacts that and it settles you. So 0:18:28.287 --> 0:18:31.207 that's the first thing. And then it creates a space 0:18:31.327 --> 0:18:36.007 for you to actually have the experience of road rage. 0:18:36.087 --> 0:18:39.087 For example, someone yells at you and instead of that 0:18:39.247 --> 0:18:43.607 being a huge reaction from you as well, and then 0:18:43.687 --> 0:18:46.847 taking that into the next phase of the day and 0:18:46.887 --> 0:18:50.247 the next and it having ripple effects, you choose how 0:18:50.287 --> 0:18:53.407 you're going to react. You choose how you're going to 0:18:53.447 --> 0:18:56.287 react if someone is nasty, if your boss has a 0:18:56.367 --> 0:18:59.167 go at you, if your partner has a go at you. 0:18:59.887 --> 0:19:02.927 So there is a space there rather than being reactive 0:19:03.007 --> 0:19:06.207 because you flip into I need to survive because I'm 0:19:06.247 --> 0:19:08.927 being confronted here, I could yell like I was a 0:19:08.927 --> 0:19:12.367 big yella as well, And I can't even remember the 0:19:12.487 --> 0:19:15.567 last time I yelled because it has been completely wired 0:19:15.727 --> 0:19:17.967 out of my brain. Because I choose how I'm going 0:19:18.007 --> 0:19:21.127 to react, and generally it is to my benefit, I'm 0:19:21.127 --> 0:19:24.287 not going to like have an extreme reaction anymore. 0:19:24.607 --> 0:19:26.767 Can I ask you in a very practical way? Because 0:19:26.767 --> 0:19:30.087 I interviewed Catherine May on this podcast too. You probably 0:19:30.127 --> 0:19:34.527 know about amazing writer he evmentory, and she also meditates, 0:19:34.647 --> 0:19:37.127 of course, but she said that when she first started, 0:19:37.167 --> 0:19:38.687 she found it became a bit of a sort of 0:19:39.287 --> 0:19:42.007 another mountain to climb, another stick to beat herself with 0:19:42.047 --> 0:19:44.207 if she couldn't fit it in. She said sometimes she'd 0:19:44.207 --> 0:19:46.367 listen to Guruz who would say, you've got to do 0:19:46.407 --> 0:19:48.167 it for this amount of time at this time of day, 0:19:48.167 --> 0:19:49.607 and she would like, well, I can't, Like I've got 0:19:49.647 --> 0:19:51.927 the school run. I'm like, can you tell me in 0:19:51.967 --> 0:19:54.607 a practical way how you fit it into your life 0:19:54.807 --> 0:19:57.407 and how women you know who have benefited in a 0:19:57.447 --> 0:20:00.647 similar way. Do you have found ways to actually make 0:20:00.687 --> 0:20:01.487 it work. 0:20:01.807 --> 0:20:04.367 So I know what she means. I don't know whether 0:20:04.367 --> 0:20:06.287 you're up to this bit in the book, but Tilda 0:20:06.367 --> 0:20:08.647 does the the Passionate ten day course. 0:20:09.247 --> 0:20:11.527 So that's when you go away and you're not allowed 0:20:11.567 --> 0:20:12.967 to speak for ten days. 0:20:13.207 --> 0:20:18.367 Yeah, silent retreat for ten days. Hell so tough, very beneficial, 0:20:18.407 --> 0:20:22.127 but really tough. And you agree to give up all 0:20:22.167 --> 0:20:26.767 other types of meditation and different healing modalities if you 0:20:26.847 --> 0:20:30.607 become a practitioner and you're meant to meditate for at 0:20:30.687 --> 0:20:34.607 least an hour a day using this technique. And I 0:20:34.847 --> 0:20:39.247 found it so boring. The benefits were there, and I 0:20:39.327 --> 0:20:43.047 have friends who do it and they love it, but 0:20:43.167 --> 0:20:47.007 for me, I hated the structure of it. The meditation 0:20:47.207 --> 0:20:50.887 style that I use Now, I can meditate for fifteen 0:20:50.887 --> 0:20:54.687 minutes or I can meditate for two hours, depending on 0:20:54.727 --> 0:20:57.407 the day and the time that I have. I will 0:20:57.407 --> 0:21:01.207 meditate when it fits in. I'm in such a routine 0:21:01.287 --> 0:21:03.927 of it now that generally I know if I'm going 0:21:03.967 --> 0:21:05.687 to have that little bit of time in the morning, 0:21:05.807 --> 0:21:09.127 and I use guided meditations. I never did before. It 0:21:09.407 --> 0:21:11.887 just sit there and battle my brain and that was tough. 0:21:12.487 --> 0:21:16.647 So I use these guided meditations and they're fun. So 0:21:17.327 --> 0:21:22.727 what I now know is that our spiritual journey, our 0:21:22.887 --> 0:21:26.327 journey of personal growth, we're meant to actually enjoy it. 0:21:26.327 --> 0:21:28.847 It's not meant to be a drag. I love that 0:21:29.487 --> 0:21:33.047 you commit to yourself that you're going to sit. You 0:21:33.087 --> 0:21:35.687 don't beat yourself up if you miss it, but you 0:21:35.727 --> 0:21:38.767 commit to yourself because it is really an active of 0:21:38.927 --> 0:21:43.327 such self love to give yourself that time. And then 0:21:43.367 --> 0:21:46.527 you do fifteen minutes or you do an hour, depending 0:21:46.527 --> 0:21:51.087 on how long you've got busy lives. But you start 0:21:51.127 --> 0:21:53.567 to get into a routine of that and it starts 0:21:53.567 --> 0:21:57.367 to really impact your brain and your body and your life. 0:21:57.487 --> 0:22:02.047 And then it becomes non negotiable because you want it 0:22:02.167 --> 0:22:05.207 because you enjoy it. But the less structure you have 0:22:05.327 --> 0:22:07.447 around it, the less oh, I've got to do this, 0:22:07.527 --> 0:22:09.807 I've got to tick this box. It's another I've got 0:22:09.807 --> 0:22:13.047 a teck called another thing I need to juggle. It's 0:22:13.047 --> 0:22:13.887 got to be enjoyed. 0:22:14.607 --> 0:22:16.967 So this is where we're getting to. When you were 0:22:17.007 --> 0:22:20.607 saying about the day that you made the choice, and 0:22:20.807 --> 0:22:24.007 that's the day you started meditating in earnest and that 0:22:24.167 --> 0:22:27.647 self love and showing up for yourself, I've heard you say, 0:22:27.687 --> 0:22:30.207 is the thing that did change you. So the doctor 0:22:30.207 --> 0:22:31.967 talking to Tilda at the beginning of the book, who's 0:22:32.007 --> 0:22:36.927 saying there is no cure. You were looking for cures 0:22:36.927 --> 0:22:39.567 and treatments and you this has been your cure. 0:22:40.207 --> 0:22:44.807 Yes, absolutely so, Tilda's Journey is very much my journey. 0:22:45.047 --> 0:22:48.887 Yes, I've heard you describe it as fiction with self 0:22:48.887 --> 0:22:51.807 help woven through it. And I want to assure everybody 0:22:51.847 --> 0:22:54.807 like the book. It's so funny and it's so just 0:22:54.847 --> 0:22:56.127 delightful and surprising. 0:22:56.807 --> 0:22:59.247 So talk to me. The meditation is key. 0:22:59.607 --> 0:23:01.487 What else does showing up for yourself mean? 0:23:01.527 --> 0:23:02.567 Because to me and I. 0:23:02.487 --> 0:23:05.207