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Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia, welcome to The Spill, your daily pop

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Speaker 1: culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick and I'm Tina Burke, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the episode that has got everyone in this

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Speaker 1: studio all aflutter and tense and nervous. It is our

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Speaker 1: brutally honest review of Wuthering Heights, Emerald Fennell's 2026 reimagining,

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Speaker 1: I wanna say, of the classic novel.

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Speaker 2: I was so scared, we have so much to

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Speaker 1: say. Well, I just think we have been talking about

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Speaker 1: this movie so intensely since it was first, the casting

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Speaker 1: was announced, since the first images came out, the trailer,

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Speaker 1: the whole press cycle, which we've already talked about in depth,

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Speaker 1: so we won't go into that today. Instead, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about what we saw on the screen at

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Speaker 1: the Australian premiere, which we watched at the Australian premiere

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Speaker 1: with a Margot Robbie and Jacob Eordi there, and I

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Speaker 1: guess that there is so much to say, there are

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Speaker 1: gonna be spoilers for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Who hasn't seen the movie, but I would say that's

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Speaker 1: not that many people since the preview screenings of Wuthering

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Speaker 1: Heights and then the first week of the box office

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Speaker 1: broke records of what they were expecting. They made like

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Speaker 1: the movie budget back just in the first few days

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Speaker 1: of previews. That is crazy. Say what you will at

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Speaker 1: that press tour, but it did

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Speaker 1: its job.

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Speaker 2: It did its job. So many people I know who

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Speaker 2: say like, obviously, big movie girl right here, but so

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Speaker 2: many people I know who don't really care have already

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Speaker 2: seen it. Like so many girls.

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Speaker 2: girl's messaging me going, I went to see it on

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. I'm like, OK, cool.

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Speaker 1: Oh my God, people I know who never go to

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Speaker 1: the movies and like would not be across who Emerald

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Speaker 1: Fennell is, who've never heard of Wuthering Heights, lots of

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Speaker 1: people like that went to the movies on opening weekend

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Speaker 1: just because it was such a big deal. So, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting that like Margot Robbie's been

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Speaker 1: given some interviews this week where she says that she

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Speaker 1: doesn't really care as much about the criticism of her movies,

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Speaker 1: which I kind of believe is true because with her

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Speaker 1: production company, she's a real businesswoman.

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Speaker 1: And she's like you've got to make movies for the

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Speaker 1: people who are coming to see them, not for the critics.

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Speaker 1: And I think a big part of that that she

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to say, but what she's saying is she

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Speaker 1: wants to make movies for that box office taking, which

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Speaker 1: is still good movies but that are successful and that's

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Speaker 1: why a lot of people turn up to see her movies.

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Speaker 1: So Wuthering Heights is very loosely based, at least this interpretation,

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Speaker 1: very loosely based on the 1847 novel by Emily Bronte

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Speaker 1: and it was originally published,

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Speaker 1: Under the name Ellis Bell. And what I thought was

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Speaker 1: interesting looking at all the reviews for this version of

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Speaker 1: Wuthering Heights is because some of them were saying it

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Speaker 1: was brilliant, it was wonderful. Some of them were saying

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Speaker 1: it was trash and our eyeballs should never have been

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Speaker 1: upon such a terrible movie as this. And it was

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Speaker 1: interesting because when the Wuthering Heights novel came out, it

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Speaker 1: too was very polarizing. I wasn't around in 1847, but

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Speaker 1: word on the word on the street, I know, my

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Speaker 1: night cream is insane.

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Speaker 1: But um a word on the street is that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people found it like too difficult or too

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Speaker 1: problematic or they didn't understand it, and things got even

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Speaker 1: worse when it came out 3 years later it had

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Speaker 1: been written by a woman.

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Speaker 2: The shock and the horror.

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Speaker 2: And everyone was scared. But I mean it's understandable that

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Speaker 2: at the time it was received that way, I mean

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Speaker 2: this book delves into really dark themes and into like,

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Speaker 2: and also that people couldn't define it at the time, right,

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Speaker 2: that was the thing too. It was like it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a straight Gothic, it wasn't a straight,

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Speaker 2: You know, romance, it was like people didn't know where

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Speaker 2: to put it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly

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Speaker 2: that scares people,

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Speaker 1: and that's still a little bit true today, it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting the reason why people have been obsessed with this book,

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Speaker 1: for such a long time is that it has this

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Speaker 1: kind of alluring story that we both love and despise,

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Speaker 1: and so now we're gonna get,

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Speaker 1: Into the movie, starting with the opening scene, which is

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Speaker 1: interesting because it's one of the very few scenes in

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Speaker 1: the movie that is not adapted from the book. It

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Speaker 1: has come purely from the mind of Emerald Fennell, Oscar

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Speaker 1: winner who previous to this gave us the movie's Promising

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Speaker 1: Young Woman, which if anyone hasn't seen that.

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Speaker 1: 10 out of 10 movie love and Salt Burn, which

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Speaker 1: is also a very good movie in my opinion, but

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Speaker 1: kind of also a bit polarizing. For

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Speaker 2: me that one's a, but I did really love Promising

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Speaker 2: Young Woman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah, she came out of the gate strong with that one.

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Speaker 1: So we open with a public execution, so back in

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Speaker 1: the day with no Netflix and no phones to scroll,

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Speaker 1: no outdoor cinema, a public execution was,

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Speaker 1: an event for families and friends to attend together and

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Speaker 1: gather and share news and watch someone be killed for

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Speaker 1: a crime that they potentially did not commit because there

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Speaker 1: was no justice system really. And we open with someone

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Speaker 1: being hung in the square, and not only is it

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Speaker 1: this kind of brutal death, but there's also an erection scene,

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Speaker 1: which the camera really pans in on.

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Speaker 1: It's meant to kind of titillate the audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean obviously the scene begins with audio,

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Speaker 2: so at first the screen's dark and you just hear

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Speaker 2: the audio of like these really visceral grunting noises and

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Speaker 2: like a bit of a creaking sound, and the obvious

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Speaker 2: thing that you are supposed to think by hearing those

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Speaker 2: sounds is that we're opening on a sexy scene. And

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Speaker 2: then she subverts that with the fact that it opens

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Speaker 2: on this man being hung in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: town square.

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Speaker 2: And when that happened, when I was watching this in

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Speaker 2: the cinema, I thought, OK, so this movie is going

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Speaker 2: to be maybe a bit dark and interesting and sexy

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Speaker 2: and all the things they've promised that it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: Like I thought this was a deeply weird scene. I'd

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Speaker 2: heard about it though because obviously some early screenings, well

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Speaker 2: some early screenings, it was like leaked that there was

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Speaker 2: a scene like this, but I'd actually forgotten until the

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Speaker 2: moment when it happened.

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Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of book purists out there

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Speaker 1: and just they're having a bad week in general, so

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Speaker 1: um thoughts and prayers to them, but I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of book purists out there who were quite

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Speaker 1: upset that the movie opened on a scene which not

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Speaker 1: only doesn't appear in the novel but is also like

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Speaker 1: quite a departure from aspects of the original story. But

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Speaker 1: I thought it worked really well because, you know, Emerald

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Speaker 1: Fennell is there to make her own mark on this story,

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Speaker 1: and Wuthering Heights has over 30 movie adaptations.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go and watch a true to

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Speaker 1: the book, historically accurate, Oscar-winning actor performance, there's so many

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Speaker 1: versions of that. So the only way she was gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of cut through was to really make it her

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Speaker 1: own and subvert it, and I think this opening scene

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Speaker 1: is kind of like a little nod, it's a nod

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Speaker 1: to the people who don't know the story to kind

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Speaker 1: of let them know the world they're coming into, but

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Speaker 1: it's also a nod to the book lovers to be like,

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Speaker 1: this is not the Wuthering Heights that like you read

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Speaker 1: in year 10 English.

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Speaker 1: Class or that you read as like a young 20-something

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Speaker 1: or it's not like the Bronte poster you've got on

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Speaker 1: your wall, like it's

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Speaker 2: not that. Well yeah, the whole line of the press

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Speaker 2: tour has been like this isn't your grandmother's Wuthering Heights,

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Speaker 2: and like quite frankly it's not even Emily Bronte's, it's

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Speaker 2: just emerald Fennels, right? Emily

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Speaker 1: Bronte would go into that cinema with her popcorn and

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Speaker 1: be like, I have no idea what's gonna happen, I

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Speaker 1: don't recognize these people, and I think that was kind

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Speaker 1: of the

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Speaker 2: point. Yeah, and I mean watching that scene, I was like, OK,

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Speaker 2: so this story that is about to unfold is gonna

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Speaker 2: be like morbid and horny and like uncomfortable and interesting.

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Speaker 2: And do I think that she delivered on that remains

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Speaker 2: to be seen as we talk on this podcast, but

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Speaker 2: that opening scene did set me up to think, like

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Speaker 2: it was shock, it was shock value and it worked

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Speaker 2: on me cos I was like holy crap.

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Speaker 1: It

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Speaker 1: worked on me too, and I do understand why people

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Speaker 1: sort of weren't here for it, but those people, there

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Speaker 1: was so much worse for them to come, so,

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Speaker 2: and it spoke to like the kind of like violence

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Speaker 2: and grotesqueness that you're supposed to see in a Wuthering

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Speaker 2: Heights adaptation in the world of like the things that

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Speaker 2: those people

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Speaker 2: experience.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, and then we sort of get into our

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Speaker 1: main story.

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Speaker 1: Which is a young girl called Katherine Earnshaw, Cathy, who

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Speaker 1: lives with her father in the crumbling estate of Wuthering Heights.

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Speaker 1: Interesting that Emerald Fennell really, I mean, Wuthering Heights is

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Speaker 1: not a book that has a huge cast of characters,

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Speaker 1: but she really slimmed it down and one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest kind of casting changes that she made was that

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Speaker 1: in the book,

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Speaker 1: You have Cathy's father and brother who are very distinct

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Speaker 1: characters and really shape her story and in this movie adaptation,

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Speaker 1: she chose to kind of meld them together in a

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Speaker 1: way and just have the father figure. And her reasoning

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Speaker 1: for that wasn't to cutdown time or characters, her reasoning

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Speaker 1: for that is that when she first decided that she

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Speaker 1: wanted to do a Wuthering Heights adaptation,

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Speaker 1: She challenged herself, this is interesting, she challenged herself without

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Speaker 1: going back and rereading the book or sitting down to

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Speaker 1: make notes to just like retell herself the story of

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Speaker 1: Wuthering Heights in her head, of how she had remembered

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Speaker 1: reading it for the first time at 15.

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Speaker 1: And just put all that into like a doc, and

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Speaker 1: basically that fever dream of a 15 year old who

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Speaker 1: was editing out characters she didn't find interesting and focusing

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Speaker 1: on the characters that she loved and obviously that 15

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Speaker 1: year old version of Emerald Fennell wasn't interested in the

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Speaker 1: last few chapters of the book and wasn't interested in

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Speaker 1: the brother and all that sort of stuff. She wasn't

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Speaker 1: interested in a lot of things. Yeah, and we got

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Speaker 1: her fan fiction version of it, which is where we

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Speaker 1: find the young version of Cathy and having her father

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Speaker 1: bring home,

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Speaker 1: This dirty street urchin who she names Heathcliff after her

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Speaker 1: deceased brother.

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Speaker 2: Look, the decision to cut Hindley is one that I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people who've obviously read the book

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Speaker 2: are very upset about, that's her brother in the book,

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Speaker 2: and by doing so you obviously make the dad of

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Speaker 2: the violent character, which he is not in the book

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Speaker 2: for anyone who hasn't read it. And so I was

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Speaker 2: very interested watching these early like young scenes in the

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Speaker 2: house of like how that dynamic was gonna play out

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Speaker 2: because instead they've just turned Mr. Earnshaw,

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Speaker 2: Kind of like a rogue drunk who brings home children

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Speaker 2: and like abuses everybody. So I kind of

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Speaker 1: worked me again, I, I was really on board with

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Speaker 1: Emerald Fennell's vision of like, what if we stripped so

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Speaker 1: many interesting and nuanced parts away of Wuthering Heights and

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Speaker 1: just focused on the antagonistic and like animalistic relationship between

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Speaker 1: these two young people who are both so flawed and

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Speaker 1: broken and grew up both as brother and sister and

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Speaker 1: potential lovers. It's,

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting dynamic. So we see them as children,

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Speaker 1: we see them kind of like, you know, being very

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Speaker 1: protective of each other, and we see Cathy treats Heathcliff

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Speaker 1: as both a brother and a pet and later on

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Speaker 1: like a bit of a sex object, but I think

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Speaker 1: it really gets going when we have our main stars,

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Speaker 1: Margot Robbie and Jacob Bordi come in to play the

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Speaker 1: adult versions of these characters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I surprisingly was most moved by Margot Robbie and her,

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Speaker 1: yes.

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Speaker 1: Me too, I was.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I always thought that she worked really well

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Speaker 1: as Cathy, she seemed to really understand what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Obviously in the book, like Cathy is much younger, she

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Speaker 1: is like a teenager and you know, dark hair and

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Speaker 1: this whole thing, but I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we're throwing out the book, who cares? Put Meryl Streep

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Speaker 1: in there, that's fine, I don't care. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 2: kind of got over my whole she's not 18 thing,

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Speaker 2: so I was like, well this isn't Wuthering Heights anyway,

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Speaker 2: so like just do what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: I thought that she really understood that sometimes Cathy had

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Speaker 1: to be like just the.

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Speaker 1: Most unlikable bratty character and then sometimes she had to

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Speaker 1: play her almost childlike, like there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of

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Speaker 2: that was the one, it was a bit funny to

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Speaker 2: watch like a 35-year-old throwing a like foot stomping tantrum.

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Speaker 1: We've all been there. I'm older than 35 and I

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Speaker 1: throw tantrums all the time. I mean I don't

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Speaker 2: stomp my feet, but yeah, wait,

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Speaker 1: I weirdly

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Speaker 1: relate to Kathy Earnshaw. I would be stomping around that

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Speaker 1: more too.

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Speaker 2: I think she was, yeah, look, I don't think she

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Speaker 2: was as bratty as she is.

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Speaker 2: As she could have been, and I do think a

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Speaker 2: lot of that, I can't, I have to say some

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Speaker 2: of the things I wanna say because we need to

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Speaker 2: talk about them in conjunction, but like, I think they

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Speaker 2: dulled a lot of Cathy's brattiness to make you like

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Speaker 2: her by the end. You, you needed to still like

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Speaker 2: her for Emerald's version of Wuthering Heights, you needed to

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Speaker 2: still feel sympathy for her and wanna watch her have

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Speaker 2: a love story and so they kind of kept the

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Speaker 2: brattiness limited and you understood her brattiness cos she's in

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Speaker 2: this decrepit house, she's being abused by her dad, like

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Speaker 2: it's all very dark and awful.

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Speaker 2: And heinous,

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Speaker 1: and she lives a repressed life but she's also out

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Speaker 1: of that whole sad, broken Rotherhan Heights world they live in.

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Speaker 1: She is the only one there who's like a little

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Speaker 1: bit like idolized and cared for like a child, so

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Speaker 1: it kind of explains why she behaves that way, because yes,

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Speaker 1: her father treats her awfully, but like when he's sober

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Speaker 1: he kind of panders to her to a bit. Nelly's

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Speaker 1: entire job and like Emerald kind of changed the character

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Speaker 1: of Nelly a bit to make her more of a

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Speaker 1: big sister figure in this version.

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Speaker 1: You know, is there to like basically look after Cathy,

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Speaker 1: the servants all like adore her, you know, adore her

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Speaker 1: in a way of like the, you know, bratty woman

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Speaker 1: of the house we have to look after. Heathcliff's besotted

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Speaker 1: with her, so she's kind of used to being the cent,

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Speaker 1: even though their universe is a terrible crumbling universe, she's

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Speaker 1: used to being the center of it, so it explains

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Speaker 1: why she behaves that way. What did you think of

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Speaker 1: Jacob B Lordi, especially in these opening scenes when we

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Speaker 1: first see his version of Heathcliff, what did you think

295
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Speaker 1: about that? And this is a safe space, that tall

296
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Speaker 1: man is not here, say whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: I think if I look at like this is the

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Speaker 2: thing with an adaptation right, you go like, am I

299
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Speaker 2: looking at this as its own thing or am I

300
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Speaker 2: looking at it as the body of work that it

301
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Speaker 2: has taken its IP from. If I watch this movie

302
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Speaker 2: and I don't think about it,

303
00:12:22,564 --> 00:12:25,204
Speaker 2: I think that Jacob did a good job and I

304
00:12:25,204 --> 00:12:29,644
Speaker 2: was very enchanted by this handsome, tall, beautiful man who

305
00:12:29,644 --> 00:12:33,444
Speaker 2: just loved a girl through tough circumstances because that's all,

306
00:12:33,523 --> 00:12:36,403
Speaker 2: that's all it was in this smooth-brained universe where like

307
00:12:36,403 --> 00:12:38,833
Speaker 2: they do share some trauma obviously and there is obviously

308
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Speaker 2: some darkness to this story, not quite as much as

309
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Speaker 2: the book in terms of the grief and the trauma

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Speaker 2: they go through there, but watching it, I thought he

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Speaker 2: did a good job. What did you think?

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Speaker 1: I think he

313
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Speaker 1: was fine,

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Speaker 2: like fine. I think

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Speaker 1: he was fine. I've had

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Speaker 2: a he was quite tall, he was very tall.

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Speaker 2: Tortured and like sad and emotional in those early

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Speaker 2: scenes.

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Speaker 1: That was some complex thoughts around this because I think

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Speaker 1: he was fine. I think to be honest, his height

321
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Speaker 1: and his voice were doing a lot of the heavy

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Speaker 1: lifting and bringing Heathcliff to life. I think Emerald Fennell

323
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Speaker 1: is a director who fan casts on fantasy pictures in

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Speaker 1: her mind. She's the kind of director who'll just see

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Speaker 1: a headshot of someone and be like, that's the person.

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Speaker 1: So half the reason this movie got made is because

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Speaker 1: she saw images of Jacob Eordi and pictured him as

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Speaker 1: the Heathcliff she had held in her mind.

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Speaker 1: When she was growing up, so it only makes sense

330
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Speaker 1: that she would cast him because you're supposed to suspend

331
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Speaker 1: disbelief and just live an Emerald Fennell's teenage fever dream

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Speaker 1: for this entire movie, that's the only way to enjoy it.

333
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Speaker 1: It's the only way to enjoy it, you can't look

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Speaker 1: at it as a masterful piece of cinema, it's not that.

335
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Speaker 1: And so I kind of appreciated one if we're in

336
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Speaker 1: her fantasy, yeah, cast your fantasy guy, but then I

337
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Speaker 1: also think it was a lot of like tell not show,

338
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Speaker 1: it was a lot of the other characters explaining Heathcliff,

339
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Speaker 1: it was a lot of Jacob like long shots of

340
00:13:51,444 --> 00:13:55,713
Speaker 1: him looking really brooding and handsome and he's so tall

341
00:13:55,713 --> 00:13:57,653
Speaker 1: and it's just the whole thing. But then I also

342
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Speaker 1: thought to myself, Heathcliff is always meant to be a

343
00:14:00,773 --> 00:14:04,653
Speaker 1: plot device in Wuthering Heights, like he's not really always

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Speaker 1: his own character.

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Speaker 1: He's meant to be like, he is the Moores and

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00:14:08,009 --> 00:14:09,889
Speaker 1: the Moores are him and he is that time and he,

347
00:14:09,958 --> 00:14:12,668
Speaker 1: you know, people in the story like react off him

348
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Speaker 1: and it's, it's kind of Cathy's story. So then I

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Speaker 1: thought if Heathcliff is meant to be a plot device

350
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Speaker 1: and not a character, maybe it's OK that Jacob E

351
00:14:19,129 --> 00:14:22,639
Speaker 1: Lordi is also a plot device, not a character. And

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Speaker 1: so I had that whole thought process and I came

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Speaker 1: to peace with that in my heart. And then I

354
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Speaker 1: read just an interview with Emerald Fennell this week where

355
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Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, he's just a device. So I was like,

356
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Speaker 2: OK

357
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Speaker 1: girl, well then I guess it's

358
00:14:31,769 --> 00:14:32,119
Speaker 1: fine.

359
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Speaker 2: Like, OK, and it does.

360
00:14:33,804 --> 00:14:36,283
Speaker 2: Yeah, she says that he looked like the version of

361
00:14:36,283 --> 00:14:38,533
Speaker 2: Heathcliff on the book she had when she was 14,

362
00:14:38,963 --> 00:14:41,444
Speaker 2: and she's like, and so that's why when I saw

363
00:14:41,444 --> 00:14:44,483
Speaker 2: him on that set of Saltburn, I just went, that's

364
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:48,564
Speaker 2: my Heathcliff, and like, what the hell, sure. But obviously

365
00:14:48,564 --> 00:14:51,324
Speaker 2: one of the big problems with Jacob's casting that we've

366
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Speaker 2: discussed at length and that I couldn't keep out of

367
00:14:53,403 --> 00:14:55,163
Speaker 2: my mind while watching is the fact that this is

368
00:14:55,163 --> 00:14:56,514
Speaker 2: a role that's been whitewashed.

369
00:14:56,684 --> 00:14:58,843
Speaker 1: 100%, and that's why he doesn't look, when she said

370
00:14:58,843 --> 00:15:00,644
Speaker 1: that I was like that does not look like the

371
00:15:00,644 --> 00:15:01,564
Speaker 1: Heathcliff I had in mind.

372
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Speaker 1: My mind. I read this book as a very young teenager,

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Speaker 1: I read it again in my early twenties and I

374
00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:09,908
Speaker 1: had a really clear vision of what Heathcliff would look like.

375
00:15:09,958 --> 00:15:11,788
Speaker 1: You have to, so much of the book is about,

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Speaker 1: so much of the book is describing his face and

377
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:17,519
Speaker 1: his body and his skin color. How can you read

378
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:20,189
Speaker 1: that book and see Jacob Bordi? That's what I'll never understand.

379
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Speaker 1: That's a woman who didn't want to see anything else.

380
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Speaker 2: She

381
00:15:22,718 --> 00:15:24,679
Speaker 2: didn't want to see anything else, and obviously we know,

382
00:15:24,718 --> 00:15:27,158
Speaker 2: like you said, there have been so many adaptations of

383
00:15:27,158 --> 00:15:28,999
Speaker 2: this story, and there would have been so many different

384
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Speaker 2: types of covers.

385
00:15:29,673 --> 00:15:32,074
Speaker 2: That whatever cover she had had a white man on

386
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Speaker 2: the front allegedly, and a lot of, most of the

387
00:15:34,983 --> 00:15:38,314
Speaker 2: adaptations have starred white men. So, obviously, yes, that is

388
00:15:38,314 --> 00:15:42,153
Speaker 2: what she's saying she remembers, but it is widely understood

389
00:15:42,153 --> 00:15:44,593
Speaker 2: by everyone almost who has ever read this book and

390
00:15:44,593 --> 00:15:46,994
Speaker 2: by most scholars who've unpacked the different types of language

391
00:15:46,994 --> 00:15:49,074
Speaker 2: used in the book, that at the very least this

392
00:15:49,074 --> 00:15:52,593
Speaker 2: is not a white character and that his otherness and

393
00:15:52,593 --> 00:15:54,884
Speaker 2: his perceived otherness in the book is a big part

394
00:15:54,884 --> 00:15:57,614
Speaker 2: of the reason that he suffers and has the treatment that,

395
00:15:57,668 --> 00:16:00,829
Speaker 2: He has and that that is a big driving force

396
00:16:00,829 --> 00:16:04,468
Speaker 2: between like everything else that happens. So if you whitewash

397
00:16:04,468 --> 00:16:06,579
Speaker 2: that character and then you take away all of these

398
00:16:06,579 --> 00:16:08,739
Speaker 2: other things that happen as a result, which she did,

399
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:11,168
Speaker 2: she did take them away. But if you do all

400
00:16:11,168 --> 00:16:13,489
Speaker 2: of those things, you're sort of hollowing out the story

401
00:16:13,489 --> 00:16:16,249
Speaker 2: and you're just making it about some dude who's a

402
00:16:16,249 --> 00:16:19,749
Speaker 2: little upset and tall. It's a very like strange thing

403
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:21,468
Speaker 2: then to go like, who is Heathcliff, and you're right,

404
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:23,269
Speaker 2: I guess he's just a plot device in this movie

405
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:25,588
Speaker 2: rather than being as complicated and like layered.

406
00:16:25,994 --> 00:16:27,723
Speaker 2: As he could have been in the hands of someone

407
00:16:27,723 --> 00:16:28,184
Speaker 2: else.

408
00:16:28,444 --> 00:16:30,033
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people are saying like,

409
00:16:30,124 --> 00:16:32,324
Speaker 1: well you can't compare this movie to the book, and yes,

410
00:16:32,364 --> 00:16:36,033
Speaker 1: I understand that. Look, I suspended disbelief from that book

411
00:16:36,033 --> 00:16:37,874
Speaker 1: and every other version I've seen, and that's the only

412
00:16:37,874 --> 00:16:40,043
Speaker 1: reason I quite enjoyed this movie is like I looked

413
00:16:40,043 --> 00:16:41,963
Speaker 1: at it as a series of images, but I don't

414
00:16:41,963 --> 00:16:43,843
Speaker 1: think we should give Emerald Fennell that get out of

415
00:16:43,843 --> 00:16:46,944
Speaker 1: jail free card because she used the Wuthering Heights

416
00:16:46,944 --> 00:16:49,754
Speaker 2: IP and I cannot have one more conversation about those.

417
00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:53,306
Speaker 2: Goddamn quote marks. Every time this

418
00:16:53,306 --> 00:16:54,067
Speaker 2: comes up. Oh yeah,

419
00:16:54,186 --> 00:16:56,346
Speaker 1: because this is the first time we've had the Wuthering

420
00:16:56,346 --> 00:16:58,306
Speaker 1: Heights as a movie title in quote marks, in

421
00:16:58,306 --> 00:17:01,176
Speaker 2: quote marks. So it's like, so many people are saying, well,

422
00:17:01,186 --> 00:17:03,666
Speaker 2: it's in quote marks, it's a loose inspiration, it's an adaptation,

423
00:17:03,707 --> 00:17:05,975
Speaker 2: you can't compare the two. In fact, you can, you can.

424
00:17:06,067 --> 00:17:08,305
Speaker 2: You called the movie Wuthering Heights, the characters have the

425
00:17:08,306 --> 00:17:11,027
Speaker 2: same names, they're currently selling Emily Bronte's book in Dymocks

426
00:17:11,027 --> 00:17:13,286
Speaker 2: with the movie poster on the book

427
00:17:13,286 --> 00:17:14,707
Speaker 1: that, by the way, I hate that.

428
00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:18,050
Speaker 2: I mean, I, I don't mind it, but, but it

429
00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:19,849
Speaker 2: means you do get to be held to the standard

430
00:17:19,849 --> 00:17:22,890
Speaker 2: of the discussion. And also like, as someone who likes art,

431
00:17:22,969 --> 00:17:25,249
Speaker 2: I just like talking about it and I like discussing

432
00:17:25,249 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 2: it and you're not yet free from criticism because you're saying, oh,

433
00:17:28,170 --> 00:17:29,689
Speaker 2: but this is how I remember it when I was

434
00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:30,450
Speaker 2: 14.

435
00:17:30,729 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: You have to then think that your art's gonna be

436
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,489
Speaker 1: held against the book and then your art has to

437
00:17:34,489 --> 00:17:36,349
Speaker 1: stack up, which to be honest, for a lot of people,

438
00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:38,978
Speaker 1: this didn't. A lot of people didn't love it.

439
00:17:40,524 --> 00:17:44,034
Speaker 1: OK, so moving now into where the plot really gets going,

440
00:17:44,093 --> 00:17:47,573
Speaker 1: which is we have Kathy and Heathcliff living as a

441
00:17:47,573 --> 00:17:52,134
Speaker 1: sexy brother and sister in their home, which, you know,

442
00:17:52,254 --> 00:17:53,553
Speaker 1: it's again, it's been a plot device

443
00:17:53,553 --> 00:17:54,524
Speaker 2: they kind of shied

444
00:17:54,524 --> 00:17:56,562
Speaker 2: away from the incest of it all a little bit,

445
00:17:56,654 --> 00:17:57,524
Speaker 2: but OK, fine,

446
00:17:57,803 --> 00:17:58,374
Speaker 1: whatever gone harder.

447
00:17:58,568 --> 00:18:00,649
Speaker 1: And then we have a plot device which always serves

448
00:18:00,649 --> 00:18:03,088
Speaker 1: us well in a period drama, which is very Pride

449
00:18:03,088 --> 00:18:05,448
Speaker 1: and Prejudice, a new neighbor has moved to the area.

450
00:18:05,649 --> 00:18:06,438
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be so

451
00:18:06,438 --> 00:18:06,649
Speaker 2: exciting.

452
00:18:06,728 --> 00:18:09,688
Speaker 1: A marriageable man, a new neighbor. I guess the version

453
00:18:09,688 --> 00:18:11,088
Speaker 1: of that for us is like if you see a

454
00:18:11,088 --> 00:18:13,608
Speaker 1: moving van parked outside your apartment building, you're like, is

455
00:18:13,608 --> 00:18:16,427
Speaker 1: that a marriageable man of suitable age and income?

456
00:18:17,384 --> 00:18:19,664
Speaker 1: And chances are in Sydney, no. What are his prospects? Yeah,

457
00:18:20,124 --> 00:18:21,463
Speaker 1: what are my prospects? Nothing.

458
00:18:23,103 --> 00:18:27,062
Speaker 1: So we have Edgar Linton, played by Shahzad Latif, who

459
00:18:27,063 --> 00:18:29,264
Speaker 1: I thought was quite good in this role, moved to

460
00:18:29,264 --> 00:18:30,953
Speaker 1: a neighboring estate, a

461
00:18:30,953 --> 00:18:33,073
Speaker 2: very manicured and beautiful estate,

462
00:18:33,154 --> 00:18:37,433
Speaker 1: yes, and his ward Isabella, played by Alison Oliver, who

463
00:18:37,433 --> 00:18:41,193
Speaker 1: is also another player that Emerald Fennell likes to recast

464
00:18:41,193 --> 00:18:44,072
Speaker 1: in her movies because she was also in Saltburn.

465
00:18:44,473 --> 00:18:44,953
Speaker 2: What do you

466
00:18:44,953 --> 00:18:47,794
Speaker 2: think of the decision to make Isabella his ward and

467
00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:48,624
Speaker 2: not his sister?

468
00:18:48,874 --> 00:18:49,154
Speaker 1: I

469
00:18:49,154 --> 00:18:49,713
Speaker 2: think that that

470
00:18:49,713 --> 00:18:50,473
Speaker 1: was to be.

471
00:18:50,747 --> 00:18:52,506
Speaker 2: Cause I was like, what's the, I don't get it.

472
00:18:52,587 --> 00:18:55,247
Speaker 2: I don't, I still just thought of it as sis siblings.

473
00:18:55,707 --> 00:18:58,386
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, she still came across that like sister niece

474
00:18:58,386 --> 00:19:00,827
Speaker 1: kind of dynamic. To be honest, I don't think that

475
00:19:00,837 --> 00:19:03,987
Speaker 1: that's a layered conversation. I think when Emerald Fennell said

476
00:19:03,987 --> 00:19:06,747
Speaker 1: I just wrote what I remembered from 15, I think

477
00:19:06,747 --> 00:19:09,386
Speaker 1: she had just forgotten in the book what their

478
00:19:09,386 --> 00:19:10,067
Speaker 1: relationship was.

479
00:19:10,136 --> 00:19:11,266
Speaker 2: And you know what, no one else would have picked

480
00:19:11,266 --> 00:19:12,827
Speaker 2: it up because Margot said she hadn't even read the

481
00:19:12,827 --> 00:19:13,747
Speaker 2: book until she read the script.

482
00:19:13,786 --> 00:19:14,747
Speaker 1: That is crazy

483
00:19:14,747 --> 00:19:16,426
Speaker 1: to me. I was like, how did everyone get through

484
00:19:16,426 --> 00:19:18,186
Speaker 1: their teenage years? Either you read it as a.

485
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:20,310
Speaker 1: Loser like me at 12 of your own volition because

486
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:23,060
Speaker 1: you found it in the high school library, or surely

487
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:24,259
Speaker 1: everyone was forced to read it for school. I mean,

488
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 2: you're all from Queensland, did you not read it in school?

489
00:19:26,339 --> 00:19:27,129
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what Margot,

490
00:19:27,209 --> 00:19:27,219
Speaker 2: I

491
00:19:27,219 --> 00:19:27,959
Speaker 2: don't know what happened to them.

492
00:19:28,129 --> 00:19:30,169
Speaker 1: I'm just saying Margot, I mean, actually no, I'm not

493
00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:31,940
Speaker 1: that much older, I'm only 3 years older than Margot Robbie,

494
00:19:31,979 --> 00:19:33,099
Speaker 1: so I like to say, I was about to say

495
00:19:33,099 --> 00:19:34,939
Speaker 1: she's so young, but that's the other one, that's the

496
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:38,139
Speaker 1: tall Jacob one. No, apparently we all, Margot, Jacob and

497
00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:40,829
Speaker 1: I all went through the Queensland schooling system differently. Wow.

498
00:19:41,619 --> 00:19:43,859
Speaker 1: But that's neither here nor there. So then we, we

499
00:19:43,859 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 1: have Cathy go on a little bit of a journey.

500
00:19:46,013 --> 00:19:51,292
Speaker 1: To their estate and sprain her ankle outside the wall

501
00:19:54,332 --> 00:19:55,013
Speaker 2: so that she love that first, yeah, just sort of

502
00:19:55,013 --> 00:19:57,493
Speaker 2: like cos again it's a bit like Margot playing this

503
00:19:57,493 --> 00:19:59,613
Speaker 2: childish character who's like, they're not calling on me, I'm

504
00:19:59,613 --> 00:20:01,802
Speaker 2: so angry and stroppy, like obviously that was quite funny,

505
00:20:02,133 --> 00:20:05,093
Speaker 2: but the peeking over the wall and like getting that

506
00:20:05,093 --> 00:20:08,212
Speaker 2: first introduction to like that very otherworld aesthetic of the

507
00:20:08,212 --> 00:20:10,253
Speaker 2: Linton's for the first time because we knew from the

508
00:20:10,253 --> 00:20:12,273
Speaker 2: trailer that the costumes and like the vibe would be

509
00:20:12,572 --> 00:20:13,572
Speaker 2: at times just so.

510
00:20:13,755 --> 00:20:16,365
Speaker 2: Wild and like visually stunning but not at all correct.

511
00:20:16,645 --> 00:20:19,086
Speaker 2: But for the whole time at like Wuthering Heights, it

512
00:20:19,086 --> 00:20:22,515
Speaker 2: felt like period drama-esque still, and then suddenly we got

513
00:20:22,515 --> 00:20:24,285
Speaker 2: that glimpse into the Linton world and I went, huh,

514
00:20:24,405 --> 00:20:24,764
Speaker 1: it's

515
00:20:24,765 --> 00:20:27,076
Speaker 1: almost like when Cathy goes into the Linton world, it's

516
00:20:27,076 --> 00:20:30,895
Speaker 1: like that moment where like Alice in Wonderland falls through

517
00:20:30,895 --> 00:20:32,726
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole or something like that where

518
00:20:32,726 --> 00:20:33,645
Speaker 2: all of a sudden falls into

519
00:20:33,645 --> 00:20:35,715
Speaker 2: this dollhouse of ribbons and color

520
00:20:35,716 --> 00:20:39,196
Speaker 1: and latex and craziness and like the rules don't really apply,

521
00:20:39,245 --> 00:20:41,226
Speaker 1: so she stays there for six weeks. Yes.

522
00:20:41,438 --> 00:20:42,338
Speaker 1: For her ankle to heal.

523
00:20:42,438 --> 00:20:43,558
Speaker 2: Oh my God, back in the day,

524
00:20:44,899 --> 00:20:46,509
Speaker 1: we're lucky they didn't put a leech on that thing,

525
00:20:46,678 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 2: just put it out there. And obviously throughout that time

526
00:20:49,399 --> 00:20:52,299
Speaker 2: our Heathcliff is tortured and Nelly Dean will not let

527
00:20:52,299 --> 00:20:54,198
Speaker 2: him go see her. Oh, Nelly Dean,

528
00:20:54,358 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: well she knows what's going on over there. And then

529
00:20:56,639 --> 00:20:58,999
Speaker 1: when we have Catherine returning to Wuthering Heights as like

530
00:20:58,999 --> 00:21:01,478
Speaker 1: a well-dressed lady, it's kind of like she has shed

531
00:21:01,478 --> 00:21:04,549
Speaker 1: a little bit of that childish exterior and we now

532
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:07,158
Speaker 1: see her as more an adult. Yes, in one of

533
00:21:07,159 --> 00:21:08,398
Speaker 1: your favorite scenes, in

534
00:21:08,399 --> 00:21:09,078
Speaker 2: one of my favorites.

535
00:21:09,723 --> 00:21:12,044
Speaker 2: So she comes back and like there's a bit of

536
00:21:12,044 --> 00:21:14,674
Speaker 2: obviously tension and weirdness between her and Heathcliff and Heathcliff

537
00:21:14,674 --> 00:21:17,103
Speaker 2: makes it evident that he's upset and I think Jacob

538
00:21:17,103 --> 00:21:19,504
Speaker 2: Alordi being angry, good place for him, he's good at

539
00:21:19,504 --> 00:21:20,364
Speaker 2: that role. He knows

540
00:21:20,364 --> 00:21:21,203
Speaker 1: how to play in that area,

541
00:21:21,483 --> 00:21:22,924
Speaker 2: he knows that well. He's an angry man, he's an

542
00:21:22,924 --> 00:21:25,343
Speaker 2: angry boy on screen, lovely guy in person it seems,

543
00:21:25,483 --> 00:21:28,034
Speaker 2: but obviously where that leads us is like she goes

544
00:21:28,034 --> 00:21:30,364
Speaker 2: to go visit him one night to like test the

545
00:21:30,364 --> 00:21:33,924
Speaker 2: boundaries of this weird incestuous sexual relationship they might have

546
00:21:33,924 --> 00:21:34,424
Speaker 2: one day.

547
00:21:34,843 --> 00:21:38,823
Speaker 2: And she stumbles, I'm guessing across her first ever experience

548
00:21:38,823 --> 00:21:41,264
Speaker 2: of what it's like to see people having sex, cos

549
00:21:41,264 --> 00:21:43,394
Speaker 2: she goes to go to him and then she notices

550
00:21:43,394 --> 00:21:45,784
Speaker 2: down in the stables below that their servants are getting

551
00:21:45,784 --> 00:21:47,783
Speaker 2: kinky with some horse gear. Yeah,

552
00:21:47,894 --> 00:21:51,303
Speaker 1: and she's so like mesmerized by it I think that's

553
00:21:51,303 --> 00:21:53,543
Speaker 1: true because you've got to think like, not only, as

554
00:21:53,544 --> 00:21:56,103
Speaker 1: we know from Bridgerton, women of, you know, I know

555
00:21:56,103 --> 00:21:58,223
Speaker 1: that's not exactly the same time period, but I'm gonna

556
00:21:58,223 --> 00:21:59,943
Speaker 1: like limb and say for there was like a,

557
00:22:00,336 --> 00:22:03,735
Speaker 1: Kind of 100 year period time where no sex education

558
00:22:03,735 --> 00:22:06,895
Speaker 1: and especially because Cathy is not like growing up as

559
00:22:06,895 --> 00:22:08,836
Speaker 1: a lady at the same time, she doesn't have any,

560
00:22:09,046 --> 00:22:11,055
Speaker 1: I don't think Nellie is missing quite a lot

561
00:22:11,056 --> 00:22:13,796
Speaker 2: in this, right, is that in the book it's maybe slightly,

562
00:22:13,976 --> 00:22:16,696
Speaker 2: like they're a bit more in society quote unquote, like

563
00:22:16,696 --> 00:22:19,436
Speaker 2: in the movie they're very like living in a decrepit house,

564
00:22:19,546 --> 00:22:20,035
Speaker 1: like this

565
00:22:21,015 --> 00:22:23,196
Speaker 1: feels like it played out on like a stage or something,

566
00:22:23,375 --> 00:22:24,936
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like a, and I think that that

567
00:22:24,936 --> 00:22:25,296
Speaker 1: is meant to.

568
00:22:25,527 --> 00:22:28,057
Speaker 1: Happen. It's not because they didn't have the budget. It's,

569
00:22:28,087 --> 00:22:29,277
Speaker 1: it feels very

570
00:22:29,277 --> 00:22:31,807
Speaker 2: small in a very deliberate way and she's not quite

571
00:22:31,807 --> 00:22:33,368
Speaker 2: across the propriety of all of

572
00:22:33,368 --> 00:22:33,927
Speaker 2: that stuff.

573
00:22:34,087 --> 00:22:37,878
Speaker 1: It's like they've stripped back like crowd scenes, character scenes,

574
00:22:38,327 --> 00:22:40,807
Speaker 1: everything feels very small and boxed in, and I wonder

575
00:22:40,807 --> 00:22:42,947
Speaker 1: if that's because like dolls are such a big part

576
00:22:42,947 --> 00:22:45,927
Speaker 1: of the movie, you know, Cathy's dolls at the start

577
00:22:45,927 --> 00:22:48,488
Speaker 1: and then the dolls that Isabella's playing with, the dollhouse,

578
00:22:48,567 --> 00:22:50,648
Speaker 1: it's almost like I was like thinking like does.

579
00:22:50,759 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: Emerald Fennell want us to think that this is like

580
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,389
Speaker 1: her dollhouse of Wuthering Heights characters, and it's happening within

581
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:58,910
Speaker 1: like the Emerald Fennell's dollhouse of her mind and she's

582
00:22:58,910 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: just moving everyone around whatever the hell. And so she

583
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,478
Speaker 1: moves Kathy into the barn and she's peering down through

584
00:23:04,479 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: little cracks and she's seeing not just sex but a

585
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,790
Speaker 1: kind of a bit of a a roleplay between, I

586
00:23:09,790 --> 00:23:12,239
Speaker 1: mean those servants deserved it. I feel like they have

587
00:23:12,239 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: a hard life, they work hard and yeah, definitely have

588
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:15,999
Speaker 1: some hot sex.

589
00:23:16,192 --> 00:23:17,072
Speaker 1: In the barn. Why

590
00:23:17,072 --> 00:23:17,311
Speaker 1: not?

591
00:23:17,472 --> 00:23:20,082
Speaker 2: Why not? And obviously this is the Wuthering Height she promised, right?

592
00:23:20,192 --> 00:23:22,452
Speaker 2: We knew it was supposed to be like, whoa, so sexy.

593
00:23:23,151 --> 00:23:24,712
Speaker 2: So this is, and we'd seen it a little bit

594
00:23:24,712 --> 00:23:26,592
Speaker 2: in the trailer this scene. But the part for me

595
00:23:26,592 --> 00:23:28,351
Speaker 2: that was the most tense of this, and I'm sure

596
00:23:28,352 --> 00:23:31,031
Speaker 2: for most people, is that Heathcliff comes out and lies

597
00:23:31,031 --> 00:23:32,712
Speaker 2: on top of her and puts his hand over her

598
00:23:32,712 --> 00:23:34,992
Speaker 2: mouth and his hand over her eyes to sort of

599
00:23:34,992 --> 00:23:38,061
Speaker 2: shield her from seeing this and shield this from being like,

600
00:23:38,271 --> 00:23:41,391
Speaker 2: cos he knows her so well, cos again, brother and sister, um.

601
00:23:41,943 --> 00:23:44,062
Speaker 2: And he knows her so well and he's like, she

602
00:23:44,063 --> 00:23:45,583
Speaker 2: doesn't know anything, she doesn't know what's going on, I'm

603
00:23:45,583 --> 00:23:47,654
Speaker 2: gonna protect her innocence and cover her eyes and her ears,

604
00:23:47,703 --> 00:23:50,583
Speaker 2: but that is the first time in my life, I'm

605
00:23:50,583 --> 00:23:52,914
Speaker 2: bold enough to say it. I was like, oh Jacob

606
00:23:52,914 --> 00:23:55,864
Speaker 2: Bordi is hot. I know this is a fact and

607
00:23:55,864 --> 00:23:56,703
Speaker 2: not a hot take.

608
00:23:57,524 --> 00:24:00,093
Speaker 2: That's the whole reason he got cast in this role, yeah,

609
00:24:00,333 --> 00:24:02,603
Speaker 2: but I just, I, I was like, oh yeah, that's

610
00:24:02,603 --> 00:24:03,853
Speaker 2: a handsome boy. No,

611
00:24:03,973 --> 00:24:06,853
Speaker 1: can I just say, for me that was the hottest

612
00:24:06,853 --> 00:24:07,764
Speaker 1: scene in Wuthering Heights.

613
00:24:07,774 --> 00:24:07,894
Speaker 2: It

614
00:24:07,894 --> 00:24:09,773
Speaker 2: was the sexiest scene and it was them, not what

615
00:24:09,774 --> 00:24:10,693
Speaker 2: was going on downstairs.

616
00:24:10,733 --> 00:24:13,654
Speaker 1: 100%. Maybe that's because like with the sex scenes, which

617
00:24:13,654 --> 00:24:15,812
Speaker 1: we'll get to later on is that they were so

618
00:24:15,813 --> 00:24:17,764
Speaker 1: expect you, like we know they're gonna have hot sex.

619
00:24:18,053 --> 00:24:20,174
Speaker 1: There was nothing sort of and it was not.

620
00:24:20,308 --> 00:24:22,588
Speaker 1: That hot and it wasn't, didn't feel subversive, we knew

621
00:24:22,588 --> 00:24:25,269
Speaker 1: it was coming. Every time like it flashed on screen,

622
00:24:25,348 --> 00:24:27,509
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, again and again and again. Whereas this,

623
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:30,068
Speaker 1: the hottest part of any love story is never the

624
00:24:30,068 --> 00:24:32,389
Speaker 1: sex scene, it's always the build-up, and this was the

625
00:24:32,389 --> 00:24:34,948
Speaker 1: first time we saw a build-up, so when his dirty

626
00:24:34,948 --> 00:24:38,029
Speaker 1: hand went around her mouth and like was holding her

627
00:24:38,029 --> 00:24:40,419
Speaker 1: down and she both looked freaked out, but can I say,

628
00:24:40,468 --> 00:24:42,428
Speaker 1: you know I don't love a dirty hand, but I'd

629
00:24:42,428 --> 00:24:43,088
Speaker 1: let Jacoblo put his.

630
00:24:43,683 --> 00:24:46,103
Speaker 1: In this scene, put his dirty hand across my mouth

631
00:24:46,323 --> 00:24:47,274
Speaker 1: as long as he wanted.

632
00:24:47,424 --> 00:24:47,562
Speaker 2: It

633
00:24:47,563 --> 00:24:50,384
Speaker 2: was such a good scene. The tension was so good.

634
00:24:50,563 --> 00:24:53,573
Speaker 2: And then just like when obviously downstairs I finished up

635
00:24:54,203 --> 00:24:56,244
Speaker 2: and he like takes his hand slowly off her face

636
00:24:56,244 --> 00:24:57,963
Speaker 2: and he just like tries to be like, Cathy, it's

637
00:24:57,963 --> 00:24:59,634
Speaker 2: like OK, and she's like, ah yeah,

638
00:24:59,754 --> 00:25:01,223
Speaker 1: and she's probably like, I don't know what's, you're my brother,

639
00:25:01,244 --> 00:25:02,583
Speaker 1: but also I wanna also we're not

640
00:25:02,583 --> 00:25:05,483
Speaker 2: related but also oh what just happened? Yeah, and

641
00:25:05,483 --> 00:25:05,602
Speaker 1: she's

642
00:25:05,603 --> 00:25:06,963
Speaker 1: probably like, what just happened and it's just.

643
00:25:07,098 --> 00:25:09,539
Speaker 1: Whole thing of like that she both feels like restrained

644
00:25:09,539 --> 00:25:11,968
Speaker 1: by him but like aroused by him touching her and

645
00:25:11,968 --> 00:25:13,568
Speaker 1: it's not the first time but one of the first

646
00:25:13,568 --> 00:25:15,177
Speaker 1: times where it's clear to the audience he's seeing her

647
00:25:15,178 --> 00:25:17,139
Speaker 1: as more than his sister, so it's very, very hot.

648
00:25:17,218 --> 00:25:20,058
Speaker 2: And obviously then the next, like the big cut to

649
00:25:20,058 --> 00:25:21,279
Speaker 2: is just her in the kitchen, which there's a lot

650
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,937
Speaker 2: of comical cuttos, like this one was like someone kneading

651
00:25:23,938 --> 00:25:26,009
Speaker 2: the bread and she's looking at them traumatized from the

652
00:25:26,009 --> 00:25:28,088
Speaker 2: concept of sex, and then she goes off to the

653
00:25:28,088 --> 00:25:30,098
Speaker 2: moors to experience pleasure.

654
00:25:31,004 --> 00:25:33,833
Speaker 2: First time when I, like when you're in a cinema

655
00:25:33,833 --> 00:25:35,914
Speaker 2: filled with your colleagues, oh my God,

656
00:25:35,994 --> 00:25:38,833
Speaker 1: I was, I was not giving you guys a second thought.

657
00:25:38,914 --> 00:25:41,223
Speaker 2: Can I just say? Sometimes it can be so uncomfortable,

658
00:25:41,274 --> 00:25:42,953
Speaker 2: but I think everyone was just so wrapped up in

659
00:25:42,953 --> 00:25:43,644
Speaker 2: what was happening.

660
00:25:43,833 --> 00:25:45,193
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to paint a picture, I know we said

661
00:25:45,193 --> 00:25:47,193
Speaker 1: we were at the Australian premiere with Margot and Jacob,

662
00:25:47,233 --> 00:25:49,193
Speaker 1: and that's true. The other part is we were in

663
00:25:49,193 --> 00:25:52,433
Speaker 1: the 1st 3 rows of the state theater, and the

664
00:25:52,433 --> 00:25:54,394
Speaker 1: 2 rows in front of us and everyone beside us.

665
00:25:54,495 --> 00:25:57,586
Speaker 1: All our colleagues and we're pushed in so close together,

666
00:25:57,816 --> 00:26:00,125
Speaker 1: and I've got 3 glasses of wine on my lap

667
00:26:00,125 --> 00:26:03,005
Speaker 1: because that theater does not have tables for your drinks.

668
00:26:03,326 --> 00:26:06,395
Speaker 1: The stakes could not be higher. And then every time

669
00:26:06,395 --> 00:26:09,245
Speaker 1: something like this happened, like when Margot Robbie's Cathy starts

670
00:26:09,245 --> 00:26:11,535
Speaker 1: masturbating on screen, everyone started screaming.

671
00:26:11,775 --> 00:26:13,456
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a very loud cinema and a loud,

672
00:26:13,956 --> 00:26:15,455
Speaker 1: it's not a subversive scene at

673
00:26:15,456 --> 00:26:15,615
Speaker 1: all.

674
00:26:15,676 --> 00:26:17,495
Speaker 2: It's not, but I think just in a cinema packed

675
00:26:17,495 --> 00:26:17,875
Speaker 2: with people.

676
00:26:18,598 --> 00:26:21,797
Speaker 1: in a literary adaptation you don't often because they usually

677
00:26:21,797 --> 00:26:23,018
Speaker 1: stay so close to the book itself.

678
00:26:23,317 --> 00:26:24,837
Speaker 2: And I think it was the squealings of like, again

679
00:26:24,837 --> 00:26:26,277
Speaker 2: this is one of those times where we really see

680
00:26:26,277 --> 00:26:28,718
Speaker 2: that this is just some girl's fan fiction cos this

681
00:26:28,718 --> 00:26:31,777
Speaker 2: is straight out of the pages of a romance book

682
00:26:31,777 --> 00:26:34,398
Speaker 2: like in cos which is not Wuthering Heights, but like

683
00:26:34,398 --> 00:26:36,477
Speaker 2: it's straight out of the pages of like, he follows

684
00:26:36,478 --> 00:26:38,398
Speaker 2: her there, he wasn't expecting to see this is what

685
00:26:38,398 --> 00:26:41,157
Speaker 2: she's doing, and then when he realizes it's what she's doing,

686
00:26:41,197 --> 00:26:41,518
Speaker 2: he tries,

687
00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:45,259
Speaker 2: Make her feel comfortable and confident, like that's not what, like, no,

688
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:47,540
Speaker 2: that wouldn't happen, but it's great that it did

689
00:26:47,540 --> 00:26:50,030
Speaker 1: on screen. I love a little sprinkle of teenage fan

690
00:26:50,030 --> 00:26:50,540
Speaker 1: fiction on

691
00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:51,420
Speaker 1: a classic novel

692
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:53,300
Speaker 2: and like that actually again was probably one of the

693
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:55,659
Speaker 2: hottest scenes. They're fully clothed, he's like he picks her

694
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:58,530
Speaker 2: up by her corset with his finger and he like,

695
00:26:58,540 --> 00:27:00,979
Speaker 2: they go to kiss and that Charlie XCX music is

696
00:27:00,979 --> 00:27:02,729
Speaker 2: just pounding in your ears, like,

697
00:27:02,780 --> 00:27:04,420
Speaker 1: what about when he licked her hand, do you think

698
00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:05,129
Speaker 1: that was hot?

699
00:27:05,619 --> 00:27:06,139
Speaker 2: I can't talk about it.

700
00:27:07,313 --> 00:27:09,693
Speaker 1: Can I say this movie is doing things for hand.

701
00:27:09,914 --> 00:27:12,114
Speaker 1: The hand PR in this movie is top notch,

702
00:27:12,193 --> 00:27:13,914
Speaker 2: lots of important hand PR. Again, I do think that

703
00:27:13,914 --> 00:27:17,073
Speaker 2: was one of the more like scintillating sexy scenes of

704
00:27:17,073 --> 00:27:19,634
Speaker 2: the film, because again it was like he's showing her

705
00:27:19,634 --> 00:27:21,453
Speaker 2: that like he's obsessed and in love with her and

706
00:27:21,453 --> 00:27:23,754
Speaker 2: like what she just did is not embarrassing and he's

707
00:27:23,754 --> 00:27:24,914
Speaker 2: trying to be like embracing

708
00:27:24,914 --> 00:27:25,033
Speaker 1: he

709
00:27:25,034 --> 00:27:26,593
Speaker 1: just wants to be part of her in like any way.

710
00:27:27,134 --> 00:27:29,543
Speaker 1: Exactly. That to me again, that was a lot more

711
00:27:29,544 --> 00:27:32,582
Speaker 1: sexy and more intimate than even a lot of like

712
00:27:32,583 --> 00:27:34,664
Speaker 1: the full-on sex scenes we saw between them. When

713
00:27:34,664 --> 00:27:34,783
Speaker 2: they

714
00:27:34,784 --> 00:27:36,384
Speaker 2: were so vulnerable at that point too, when they were

715
00:27:36,384 --> 00:27:39,544
Speaker 2: like younger and like hadn't had anything happen yet, like

716
00:27:39,544 --> 00:27:41,582
Speaker 2: in that sense of, obviously they'd grown up in quite

717
00:27:41,583 --> 00:27:43,463
Speaker 2: a volatile environment, but they hadn't had all of the

718
00:27:43,463 --> 00:27:46,284
Speaker 2: rest of the issues of their relationships come to light yet, so,

719
00:27:46,583 --> 00:27:48,124
Speaker 2: I do think it was good and I will say

720
00:27:48,124 --> 00:27:50,463
Speaker 2: sensational use of fog, there is such good fog in

721
00:27:50,463 --> 00:27:53,384
Speaker 2: this movie, like, oh my God, who was on Fog?

722
00:27:53,664 --> 00:27:55,583
Speaker 2: Give them an Oscar, Oscar for Fog. Fog

723
00:27:55,583 --> 00:27:57,664
Speaker 1: operator of Wuthering Heights. Fog operator

724
00:27:57,664 --> 00:28:00,463
Speaker 2: was doing their job. Like I was impressed. I

725
00:28:00,463 --> 00:28:03,263
Speaker 1: loved it. And then before Kathy and Heathcliff can have

726
00:28:03,264 --> 00:28:07,603
Speaker 1: a torrid, almost siblings romance, she decides to accept Edgar's

727
00:28:07,803 --> 00:28:12,943
Speaker 1: marriage proposal and marries him and moves into Thrushcross Green,

728
00:28:13,223 --> 00:28:15,124
Speaker 1: his estate, which,

729
00:28:15,614 --> 00:28:18,624
Speaker 1: The set dressing and costuming of this estate, I thought

730
00:28:18,624 --> 00:28:20,884
Speaker 1: was one of my favorite parts of the movie because

731
00:28:21,124 --> 00:28:24,864
Speaker 1: it's such a kind of juxtaposition between the earlier scenes

732
00:28:24,864 --> 00:28:29,223
Speaker 1: where you see like the beautiful but crumbling, broken Wuthering

733
00:28:29,223 --> 00:28:32,463
Speaker 1: Heights where Cathy and Heathcliff have grown up, the wild

734
00:28:32,463 --> 00:28:35,483
Speaker 1: moors around them which you know is meant to symbolize

735
00:28:35,823 --> 00:28:39,254
Speaker 1: Heathcliff's character, but also like the inner turmoil that Cathy feels,

736
00:28:39,264 --> 00:28:40,853
Speaker 1: and so you have all that and then all of

737
00:28:40,853 --> 00:28:42,803
Speaker 1: a sudden we see Cathy as a character.

738
00:28:43,114 --> 00:28:47,093
Speaker 1: Brought into his estate, which is almost like a museum

739
00:28:47,093 --> 00:28:50,754
Speaker 1: of like captivity and it's all very much like, I

740
00:28:50,754 --> 00:28:52,274
Speaker 1: am gonna watch this movie again and I can't wait

741
00:28:52,274 --> 00:28:54,034
Speaker 1: to watch it at home so I can pause and

742
00:28:54,034 --> 00:28:57,073
Speaker 1: freeze frame, because all through the house you've got things

743
00:28:57,073 --> 00:29:01,433
Speaker 1: like goldfish frozen in vases and a taxidermy lamb in

744
00:29:01,433 --> 00:29:04,874
Speaker 1: a glass, and it's like everything's frozen in place and

745
00:29:04,874 --> 00:29:08,473
Speaker 1: sterile and gold and even like in the dining room

746
00:29:08,473 --> 00:29:10,193
Speaker 1: with the way they've painted the walls, it's meant,

747
00:29:10,284 --> 00:29:11,973
Speaker 1: To look like the walls are sweating. Yeah,

748
00:29:13,073 --> 00:29:13,103
Speaker 2: they got these

749
00:29:13,103 --> 00:29:16,723
Speaker 2: tiny little plastic bubbles and glued them all to this

750
00:29:16,723 --> 00:29:19,034
Speaker 2: metal wall to make it look like it was like dripping,

751
00:29:19,164 --> 00:29:21,713
Speaker 2: like it's, it's truly insane set design. Oh I

752
00:29:21,713 --> 00:29:21,803
Speaker 1: love

753
00:29:21,803 --> 00:29:21,884
Speaker 2: it.

754
00:29:21,924 --> 00:29:22,083
Speaker 1: I

755
00:29:22,083 --> 00:29:23,203
Speaker 1: loved every second of it. Like

756
00:29:23,203 --> 00:29:25,284
Speaker 2: red fur on the staircase, it's all happening.

757
00:29:25,443 --> 00:29:27,833
Speaker 1: And this is not really helping with the whole style

758
00:29:27,833 --> 00:29:31,193
Speaker 1: over substance argument that people are saying that Wuthering Heights

759
00:29:31,193 --> 00:29:33,203
Speaker 1: is all style and no substance, and there's a lot

760
00:29:33,203 --> 00:29:35,563
Speaker 1: of truth in that. It does look like it could

761
00:29:35,563 --> 00:29:37,524
Speaker 1: just be a very long music video.

762
00:29:38,534 --> 00:29:40,894
Speaker 1: But the set dressing is incredible and you do feel

763
00:29:40,894 --> 00:29:43,134
Speaker 1: a shift of like, oh, we're on the moors and

764
00:29:43,134 --> 00:29:44,973
Speaker 1: I felt so wild and free and now that we're

765
00:29:44,973 --> 00:29:48,534
Speaker 1: in the estate and everything's sterile and everything is dead

766
00:29:48,534 --> 00:29:50,894
Speaker 1: but their corpses are being displayed, but in a very,

767
00:29:50,933 --> 00:29:54,014
Speaker 1: like in a rich way to show like the wealth. Yeah,

768
00:29:54,134 --> 00:29:56,654
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden you feel very repressed. And

769
00:29:56,654 --> 00:29:58,884
Speaker 1: which leads us to my favorite piece of set design,

770
00:29:59,053 --> 00:30:02,093
Speaker 1: which everyone's been dying to hear I'm sure of the

771
00:30:02,093 --> 00:30:04,933
Speaker 1: whole movie, which is the skin wall that Edgar has created.

772
00:30:05,384 --> 00:30:08,303
Speaker 1: for Cathy's bedroom, which is a real map of Margot

773
00:30:08,303 --> 00:30:11,664
Speaker 1: Robbie's real skin, so they mapped her skin and scanned it,

774
00:30:11,983 --> 00:30:16,103
Speaker 1: turned it into paper, so every like little freckle, mole, hair,

775
00:30:16,504 --> 00:30:20,063
Speaker 1: texture is all on the walls through the wall. And

776
00:30:20,063 --> 00:30:22,624
Speaker 1: if you watch the wall closely through the movie, as

777
00:30:22,624 --> 00:30:26,134
Speaker 1: her skin changes as she ages, as she gets pregnant,

778
00:30:26,183 --> 00:30:29,424
Speaker 1: as she miscarries, as she dies, the wall changes in

779
00:30:29,424 --> 00:30:32,284
Speaker 1: the background too to reflect how she is dying.

780
00:30:32,784 --> 00:30:35,274
Speaker 1: And she's basically being kept in a flesh prison and

781
00:30:35,274 --> 00:30:35,593
Speaker 1: I loved

782
00:30:35,593 --> 00:30:35,833
Speaker 1: it.

783
00:30:36,193 --> 00:30:38,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, the skin, I can't wait to go back and

784
00:30:38,624 --> 00:30:40,593
Speaker 2: watch this movie for even just that, like I think

785
00:30:40,593 --> 00:30:42,274
Speaker 2: in the moment I did notice it, but I didn't

786
00:30:42,274 --> 00:30:44,674
Speaker 2: really think about it all that much. But the production

787
00:30:44,674 --> 00:30:47,823
Speaker 2: designer Susie Davies did like two Arch Digest tours of

788
00:30:47,823 --> 00:30:49,624
Speaker 2: both of the sets, so she did one of like

789
00:30:49,864 --> 00:30:52,034
Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights, and with that she was saying they designed

790
00:30:52,034 --> 00:30:54,494
Speaker 2: it and both of them were designed on sound stages,

791
00:30:54,583 --> 00:30:54,973
Speaker 2: and they were,

792
00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:58,126
Speaker 2: sets, which means they built the house of both of these,

793
00:30:58,207 --> 00:31:00,447
Speaker 2: like they built them full cos normally on a film set, yeah,

794
00:31:00,526 --> 00:31:02,126
Speaker 2: like you do one room and then you open the

795
00:31:02,126 --> 00:31:04,727
Speaker 2: door and it's just like, a blank wall. But they

796
00:31:04,727 --> 00:31:06,926
Speaker 2: built this as a full house including the outsides on

797
00:31:06,926 --> 00:31:09,727
Speaker 2: sound stages and then on like massive screens they had

798
00:31:09,727 --> 00:31:11,926
Speaker 2: printed out high res imagery of the background so they

799
00:31:11,926 --> 00:31:14,327
Speaker 2: could play with like a storm rolling in or whatever

800
00:31:14,327 --> 00:31:16,286
Speaker 2: it may be. And obviously they did a lot of

801
00:31:16,286 --> 00:31:17,447
Speaker 2: that because on the moors and,

802
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:19,859
Speaker 2: The house, Wuthering Heights, they wanted to be able to

803
00:31:19,859 --> 00:31:21,420
Speaker 2: like control the wind and the rain and all of

804
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:23,339
Speaker 2: those kinds of things. And there's like, when I looked

805
00:31:23,339 --> 00:31:25,180
Speaker 2: back at it, there's like rocks coming into the house

806
00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:28,180
Speaker 2: in Wuthering Heights, like, the ceiling's really low, the like

807
00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:30,099
Speaker 2: walls start to shift and things like that that they

808
00:31:30,099 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: did to make it feel like they said they wanted

809
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,900
Speaker 2: to make it feel like it was crushing you when

810
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:36,979
Speaker 2: you were there, and then the opposite at Thrushcross Grange,

811
00:31:37,219 --> 00:31:38,940
Speaker 2: which was that it was meant to feel like really

812
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:39,869
Speaker 2: open but,

813
00:31:40,674 --> 00:31:42,603
Speaker 2: Sterile, like you said, and then yeah, there's like the

814
00:31:42,603 --> 00:31:44,764
Speaker 2: color drenched room that's all red, then there's like the

815
00:31:44,764 --> 00:31:48,004
Speaker 2: walls that are full of crystals, it's just genuinely insane

816
00:31:48,004 --> 00:31:50,723
Speaker 2: design and it's so beautiful, and yeah maybe it's style

817
00:31:50,723 --> 00:31:53,343
Speaker 2: over substance, but I really liked the style.

818
00:31:53,443 --> 00:31:55,914
Speaker 1: Yeah, the style was great and again we jump forward

819
00:31:55,914 --> 00:31:59,083
Speaker 1: a few years where Cathy is like living with Edgar

820
00:31:59,083 --> 00:32:01,723
Speaker 1: and Isabella and they're this and Nelly's there of course too,

821
00:32:01,963 --> 00:32:07,473
Speaker 1: this weird dysfunctional family unit, and then Heathcliff returns, mysteriously

822
00:32:07,473 --> 00:32:08,083
Speaker 1: showered and,

823
00:32:08,213 --> 00:32:09,073
Speaker 1: Seriously rich.

824
00:32:09,534 --> 00:32:11,254
Speaker 2: And also through the fog again. Yeah,

825
00:32:11,353 --> 00:32:13,654
Speaker 1: that fog machine, again, doing the absolute most.

826
00:32:13,693 --> 00:32:14,174
Speaker 2: And this film

827
00:32:14,174 --> 00:32:16,813
Speaker 2: did nothing to address how any of that had happened

828
00:32:16,813 --> 00:32:18,213
Speaker 2: to him, and fine, whatever. But

829
00:32:18,213 --> 00:32:19,573
Speaker 1: I think it's fine, it's part of like kind of

830
00:32:19,573 --> 00:32:22,083
Speaker 1: meant to be part of the mystery. And when Cathy's like,

831
00:32:22,124 --> 00:32:23,534
Speaker 1: I don't wanna know, and I'm like, yeah, he did

832
00:32:23,534 --> 00:32:27,654
Speaker 1: not get that money through legal means. And that's, that

833
00:32:27,654 --> 00:32:30,483
Speaker 1: makes him much more interesting. A brooding man who doesn't

834
00:32:30,483 --> 00:32:32,904
Speaker 1: help himself, no time for that. A brooding, difficult man

835
00:32:32,904 --> 00:32:34,614
Speaker 1: who goes off and makes some money, that I can

836
00:32:34,614 --> 00:32:35,674
Speaker 1: get on board with, yes.

837
00:32:37,274 --> 00:32:40,394
Speaker 1: So then he and Cathy finally give in to their

838
00:32:40,394 --> 00:32:44,174
Speaker 1: animal desires after her father dies, which is fair enough, corpse.

839
00:32:44,274 --> 00:32:46,394
Speaker 2: I did, I loved the death of the dad.

840
00:32:46,674 --> 00:32:47,244
Speaker 1: Oh, you did,

841
00:32:47,433 --> 00:32:49,284
Speaker 2: like not how it was done cos obviously again so

842
00:32:49,284 --> 00:32:50,713
Speaker 2: different to the book, don't have time to unpack it,

843
00:32:50,794 --> 00:32:53,914
Speaker 2: but I loved the Heathcliff and Cathy when he died,

844
00:32:53,994 --> 00:32:55,713
Speaker 2: like I loved him supporting her even though they were

845
00:32:55,713 --> 00:32:58,244
Speaker 2: there fighting and being like brats and hating each other.

846
00:32:58,634 --> 00:33:02,593
Speaker 2: Support was like obviously the leeway into the illicit affair. Yes,

847
00:33:02,874 --> 00:33:05,524
Speaker 1: exactly. And then we finally got, and the thing is,

848
00:33:05,634 --> 00:33:07,394
Speaker 1: this was the hard bit I think for the movie

849
00:33:07,394 --> 00:33:10,294
Speaker 1: to land, and I don't know if it landed because

850
00:33:10,313 --> 00:33:12,624
Speaker 1: so much of the promise of the movie from the creators,

851
00:33:12,674 --> 00:33:15,034
Speaker 1: from the cast, from the trailer was like, this is

852
00:33:15,034 --> 00:33:16,994
Speaker 1: the Wuthering Heights, you pitch in your head, it's the,

853
00:33:17,073 --> 00:33:19,914
Speaker 1: it's the torrid sex scenes. It's gonna be so over.

854
00:33:20,034 --> 00:33:22,514
Speaker 1: The top and so sexy and so sensual and you

855
00:33:22,514 --> 00:33:24,073
Speaker 1: won't be able to watch it and we're releasing it

856
00:33:24,073 --> 00:33:24,953
Speaker 1: on Valentine's

857
00:33:24,953 --> 00:33:27,433
Speaker 2: Day and I did right before they hooked up for

858
00:33:27,433 --> 00:33:29,473
Speaker 2: the first time, I did turn to Laura in the

859
00:33:29,473 --> 00:33:32,233
Speaker 2: cinema and every other reaction I'd had was just like

860
00:33:32,233 --> 00:33:34,994
Speaker 2: me like guffawing and like laughing and accidentally spilling my

861
00:33:34,994 --> 00:33:35,193
Speaker 2: wine

862
00:33:35,193 --> 00:33:37,504
Speaker 1: at one point slipping, slapping my arm, and then you

863
00:33:37,504 --> 00:33:38,823
Speaker 1: spilled your wine on me. I did,

864
00:33:38,874 --> 00:33:39,034
Speaker 2: that

865
00:33:39,034 --> 00:33:40,313
Speaker 2: was when he pulled her under the bed and I

866
00:33:40,313 --> 00:33:41,394
Speaker 2: was like I didn't know this was a horror.

867
00:33:41,983 --> 00:33:44,683
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then it was fine. But the one time

868
00:33:44,683 --> 00:33:46,924
Speaker 2: I did actually turn to you and say something was

869
00:33:46,924 --> 00:33:48,803
Speaker 2: right before they did kiss for the first time, when, yeah,

870
00:33:48,843 --> 00:33:50,683
Speaker 2: they're storming back through the rain, they get under that

871
00:33:50,683 --> 00:33:52,634
Speaker 2: thing and he leaves her there. I was like, when

872
00:33:52,634 --> 00:33:54,843
Speaker 2: are they gonna fuck cos we're running out of

873
00:33:54,843 --> 00:33:55,274
Speaker 2: time.

874
00:33:55,524 --> 00:33:57,124
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should have stood up and been like, I

875
00:33:57,124 --> 00:33:58,813
Speaker 1: know Margot had left by then because she had another engagement,

876
00:33:58,904 --> 00:34:00,904
Speaker 1: you're like, Margot, we're an hour in, let's get, let's get,

877
00:34:00,963 --> 00:34:02,603
Speaker 2: I don't mind a long movie, but I was like,

878
00:34:02,644 --> 00:34:05,323
Speaker 2: you guys said this movie was crazy. Yeah. Where is it?

879
00:34:05,813 --> 00:34:08,333
Speaker 1: So far I've seen a finger in a fish and

880
00:34:08,333 --> 00:34:11,413
Speaker 1: um two servants fucking, which was great, and a slug,

881
00:34:11,494 --> 00:34:12,693
Speaker 2: like that was funny. I loved

882
00:34:12,692 --> 00:34:13,163
Speaker 1: the slug,

883
00:34:13,413 --> 00:34:13,933
Speaker 2: so moist.

884
00:34:14,063 --> 00:34:18,654
Speaker 1: Yeah, so disgustingly gloopy and gross and a beautiful, I

885
00:34:18,654 --> 00:34:20,792
Speaker 1: guess meant to be like an allegory for like the

886
00:34:20,793 --> 00:34:23,214
Speaker 1: visceral side of sex. Emerald Fennel,

887
00:34:23,734 --> 00:34:25,404
Speaker 2: but she just took all of it out and put

888
00:34:25,404 --> 00:34:27,093
Speaker 2: it on other things that were happening and then made

889
00:34:27,093 --> 00:34:28,914
Speaker 2: the sex very romantic, I thought.

890
00:34:29,413 --> 00:34:31,772
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was romantic. I was just like, are we

891
00:34:31,772 --> 00:34:34,853
Speaker 1: watching Wuthering Heights or watching Bridgerton, because they're very different stories.

892
00:34:34,972 --> 00:34:37,752
Speaker 1: Suddenly it was but she did merge the worlds together.

893
00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:38,292
Speaker 1: It was a

894
00:34:38,292 --> 00:34:41,052
Speaker 2: sexy montage and everyone wore clothes the whole time. Yeah,

895
00:34:41,443 --> 00:34:44,173
Speaker 1: I wonder if they, the wearing clothes was about, yeah,

896
00:34:44,292 --> 00:34:46,812
Speaker 1: having them fully clothed wearing sex. I guess one of

897
00:34:46,812 --> 00:34:48,922
Speaker 1: it is they had to be like in the malls,

898
00:34:48,972 --> 00:34:50,292
Speaker 1: they had to be in a carriage or.

899
00:34:50,397 --> 00:34:51,468
Speaker 1: Or even in

900
00:34:51,468 --> 00:34:51,578
Speaker 1: his

901
00:34:51,578 --> 00:34:53,828
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I need to see nudity. I'm just

902
00:34:53,828 --> 00:34:56,228
Speaker 2: saying you guys claimed this was crazy and it wasn't.

903
00:34:56,558 --> 00:34:58,877
Speaker 1: I'm just, yeah, but I wonder also if it was

904
00:34:58,877 --> 00:35:01,278
Speaker 1: not meant to be shocking that they were having sex,

905
00:35:01,518 --> 00:35:04,596
Speaker 1: if maybe the shockingness was, maybe it wasn't actually, I

906
00:35:04,597 --> 00:35:06,677
Speaker 1: think maybe they built up the shocking too much, and

907
00:35:06,677 --> 00:35:09,238
Speaker 1: I think because we're seeing Wuthering Heights through the eyes

908
00:35:09,238 --> 00:35:10,657
Speaker 1: of a 15 year old, which.

909
00:35:12,114 --> 00:35:14,573
Speaker 1: And don't, I won't lean too hard into that, and

910
00:35:14,573 --> 00:35:17,573
Speaker 1: as a 15 year old, maybe in your mind you

911
00:35:17,573 --> 00:35:21,373
Speaker 1: rewrite really torrid like explicit stuff to be a bit

912
00:35:21,374 --> 00:35:24,813
Speaker 1: more romantic and fan fictiony and loving and in, I

913
00:35:24,813 --> 00:35:27,573
Speaker 1: think this was Emerald Fennell wanting to create a loving

914
00:35:27,573 --> 00:35:30,773
Speaker 1: version of Heathcliff and more of a tender sexy version

915
00:35:30,773 --> 00:35:32,013
Speaker 1: which does not exist in

916
00:35:32,013 --> 00:35:34,533
Speaker 2: the book. No, and that's what she wanted and that's

917
00:35:34,533 --> 00:35:36,174
Speaker 2: what she's done and that's why she made so many

918
00:35:36,174 --> 00:35:38,654
Speaker 2: changes is she wanted you to watch this movie and,

919
00:35:38,728 --> 00:35:42,489
Speaker 2: To romanticize the man Heathcliff and his relationship with Cathy

920
00:35:42,809 --> 00:35:44,049
Speaker 2: and to look at it as a love story, that's

921
00:35:44,049 --> 00:35:46,728
Speaker 2: why they mention Romeo and Juliet randomly. Like she wants

922
00:35:46,728 --> 00:35:48,489
Speaker 2: you to see this as a tragic love story, not

923
00:35:48,489 --> 00:35:52,098
Speaker 2: like just a tragic and crazy story. So yeah, they're like,

924
00:35:52,128 --> 00:35:54,328
Speaker 2: look at this beautiful romance, and I went, oh,

925
00:35:54,648 --> 00:35:54,769
Speaker 1: and

926
00:35:54,769 --> 00:35:56,888
Speaker 1: I guess it's this one moment like it's such a

927
00:35:56,888 --> 00:35:59,589
Speaker 1: topsy-turvy world as we're saying, you've got a flesh wall,

928
00:35:59,928 --> 00:36:02,569
Speaker 1: there's all these little things to be like with the costumes,

929
00:36:02,609 --> 00:36:04,809
Speaker 1: like sometimes they're period accurate, a lot of the time

930
00:36:04,809 --> 00:36:05,329
Speaker 1: they're not.

931
00:36:05,753 --> 00:36:07,884
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll pop some latex in a costume or do

932
00:36:07,884 --> 00:36:08,243
Speaker 1: a milk clean after

933
00:36:08,243 --> 00:36:08,953
Speaker 1: that,

934
00:36:09,003 --> 00:36:11,484
Speaker 2: but I gotta say, when she walked into her, on

935
00:36:11,484 --> 00:36:15,843
Speaker 2: her wedding night, dressed in like a plastic garbage bag

936
00:36:15,843 --> 00:36:18,523
Speaker 2: pink gown with diamonds, I was like, why am I

937
00:36:18,523 --> 00:36:20,343
Speaker 2: in Barbie? Like what happened?

938
00:36:20,454 --> 00:36:22,353
Speaker 1: But we all love being in the rest of the

939
00:36:22,353 --> 00:36:24,924
Speaker 2: submersive costumes were amazing and I loved them because they

940
00:36:24,924 --> 00:36:27,643
Speaker 2: still felt just like a weird crazy Alice in Wonderland

941
00:36:27,644 --> 00:36:30,364
Speaker 2: version of a period costume, but that 10, you got

942
00:36:30,364 --> 00:36:30,953
Speaker 2: me emerald, yeah,

943
00:36:31,043 --> 00:36:31,484
Speaker 1: the little

944
00:36:31,484 --> 00:36:31,964
Speaker 1: pops of like.

945
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:35,079
Speaker 1: The sunglasses and the latex and at one point when

946
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:36,638
Speaker 1: her and like Edgar are having a bit of sex

947
00:36:36,638 --> 00:36:38,558
Speaker 1: and she's feeling like a woman, her hair's in like

948
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:41,609
Speaker 1: a braid that looks like a vagina. It's all very

949
00:36:41,609 --> 00:36:43,698
Speaker 1: kind of like all the little details of this world

950
00:36:43,698 --> 00:36:46,228
Speaker 1: amazing and she's meant to be and she's dressed more

951
00:36:46,228 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: and more like a doll as we go along to

952
00:36:47,839 --> 00:36:50,168
Speaker 1: be like, you know, Edgar and to an extent Isabella

953
00:36:50,398 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: are treating her like a doll in the house rather

954
00:36:52,279 --> 00:36:54,397
Speaker 1: than a woman, and Heathcliff is the only one who

955
00:36:54,398 --> 00:36:57,218
Speaker 1: sees her as a real person for better or for worse.

956
00:36:57,839 --> 00:36:58,678
Speaker 1: And of course when,

957
00:36:58,753 --> 00:37:01,073
Speaker 1: Cathy says that she can't see Heathcliff anymore because of

958
00:37:01,073 --> 00:37:04,114
Speaker 1: her marriage and her child. This scene was interesting. He

959
00:37:04,114 --> 00:37:05,993
Speaker 1: climbs into the bedroom of

960
00:37:05,993 --> 00:37:09,474
Speaker 2: immediately after. Also like it was so again twisted, but

961
00:37:09,474 --> 00:37:11,434
Speaker 2: it was twistedly romantic that he's like, do you think

962
00:37:11,434 --> 00:37:13,674
Speaker 2: you being pregnant would have stopped me? Like I'm in

963
00:37:13,674 --> 00:37:15,313
Speaker 2: love with you. And then they have sex and then

964
00:37:15,313 --> 00:37:17,073
Speaker 2: she's like, just kidding, I'm crying and I need to

965
00:37:17,073 --> 00:37:18,954
Speaker 2: go and I have to be with Linton, which I

966
00:37:18,954 --> 00:37:21,634
Speaker 2: do think, again, she's grown up in this decrepit world,

967
00:37:21,793 --> 00:37:23,954
Speaker 2: she's not really held to the standards of society as

968
00:37:23,954 --> 00:37:25,353
Speaker 2: like that time period the way you would.

969
00:37:25,428 --> 00:37:28,438
Speaker 2: In an Austen novel, like her character is not like, well, Cathy,

970
00:37:28,708 --> 00:37:30,569
Speaker 2: so it's like why didn't they just run away together

971
00:37:30,569 --> 00:37:32,329
Speaker 2: if we're doing crazy shit.

972
00:37:32,628 --> 00:37:35,688
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. Emerald probably too nervous to stray

973
00:37:35,688 --> 00:37:36,428
Speaker 1: that far away

974
00:37:36,428 --> 00:37:37,549
Speaker 2: from the book she strayed from

975
00:37:37,549 --> 00:37:37,748
Speaker 2: everything else.

976
00:37:37,868 --> 00:37:37,948
Speaker 1: She

977
00:37:37,948 --> 00:37:38,069
Speaker 2: was

978
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:40,188
Speaker 1: like I had, I had the execution erection in my

979
00:37:40,188 --> 00:37:41,888
Speaker 1: head and that is it. The rest of the time we're,

980
00:37:41,989 --> 00:37:43,428
Speaker 1: we're following Emily's plan.

981
00:37:43,708 --> 00:37:45,349
Speaker 2: Exactly, but I do think then I was like, I

982
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:47,228
Speaker 2: don't believe that you'd stay with Edgar, but fine, you've

983
00:37:47,228 --> 00:37:50,928
Speaker 2: stayed with Edgar, cool, great, and then Jacob Bordi's Heathcliff

984
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:51,769
Speaker 2: goes outside.

985
00:37:52,103 --> 00:37:54,174
Speaker 2: And then goes next door and goes into

986
00:37:54,174 --> 00:37:55,214
Speaker 2: Isabella's bedroom.

987
00:37:55,644 --> 00:37:58,663
Speaker 1: Exactly, and it's almost a scary moment because there's this

988
00:37:58,664 --> 00:38:01,944
Speaker 1: kind of like that old school horror movie vibe to

989
00:38:01,944 --> 00:38:04,384
Speaker 1: it of like the young maiden in her chamber and

990
00:38:04,384 --> 00:38:07,343
Speaker 1: like a dark mysterious, like almost like a vampire creature.

991
00:38:07,503 --> 00:38:10,944
Speaker 1: And for the falling he has that intensity. Yeah, and

992
00:38:10,944 --> 00:38:13,553
Speaker 1: this is where you see him because he has lost any,

993
00:38:13,864 --> 00:38:16,303
Speaker 1: any sort of softness that they gave him in this movie,

994
00:38:16,384 --> 00:38:18,704
Speaker 1: any sort of humanity he only has around Cathy.

995
00:38:18,779 --> 00:38:20,978
Speaker 1: And now that she's shut him out, he shuts off

996
00:38:20,978 --> 00:38:24,138
Speaker 1: his humanity, which makes him more like a vampire creature

997
00:38:24,138 --> 00:38:26,339
Speaker 1: crawling into her room and you have that very old

998
00:38:26,339 --> 00:38:29,618
Speaker 1: school kind of horror take. And it's almost also played

999
00:38:29,618 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: for comedy, which is interesting

1000
00:38:32,759 --> 00:38:32,769
Speaker 1: because

1001
00:38:32,769 --> 00:38:35,779
Speaker 1: people were laughing so much of him being like, I'm

1002
00:38:35,779 --> 00:38:37,658
Speaker 1: gonna treat you badly, and she's like, OK. And he

1003
00:38:37,658 --> 00:38:39,368
Speaker 1: was like, do you want me to stop? No, OK,

1004
00:38:39,499 --> 00:38:40,688
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna treat you really badly, and she's like,

1005
00:38:40,739 --> 00:38:43,498
Speaker 2: yep, great. Admittedly in that scene cos they had played

1006
00:38:43,499 --> 00:38:45,198
Speaker 2: her like such an idiot.

1007
00:38:45,484 --> 00:38:48,614
Speaker 2: Like she's played as a like naive like comedic relief

1008
00:38:48,614 --> 00:38:51,174
Speaker 2: all throughout. In that scene I was kind of like

1009
00:38:51,174 --> 00:38:54,063
Speaker 2: hm OK, like I get where people are giggling but OK.

1010
00:38:54,614 --> 00:38:57,174
Speaker 2: When the next scene was like them obviously rushing to

1011
00:38:57,174 --> 00:39:00,073
Speaker 2: get married and then him taking her back to his house,

1012
00:39:00,333 --> 00:39:03,033
Speaker 2: and in front of the servant essentially the vibe being

1013
00:39:03,033 --> 00:39:05,333
Speaker 2: as she as her letter to Nelly Dean is read

1014
00:39:05,333 --> 00:39:08,513
Speaker 2: out that who has she married, who is this monster,

1015
00:39:08,523 --> 00:39:10,493
Speaker 2: and there's scenes of him grabbing her and there's the

1016
00:39:10,493 --> 00:39:12,073
Speaker 2: scene of them going back for the honeymoon.

1017
00:39:12,424 --> 00:39:14,703
Speaker 2: And it seems like he is about to assault her

1018
00:39:14,704 --> 00:39:17,793
Speaker 2: obviously or like to be quite forceful with her. I

1019
00:39:17,793 --> 00:39:19,893
Speaker 2: sunk down in my seat and I went,

1020
00:39:21,114 --> 00:39:22,303
Speaker 1: OK you knocked me as you did it. Oh my God,

1021
00:39:22,353 --> 00:39:22,893
Speaker 1: calm down.

1022
00:39:24,874 --> 00:39:25,933
Speaker 1: Knocked my wine over.

1023
00:39:26,204 --> 00:39:28,484
Speaker 2: You, you spilt your wine on me. Let's have a

1024
00:39:28,484 --> 00:39:30,833
Speaker 2: fight on the spill. No, I sunk down in my

1025
00:39:30,833 --> 00:39:33,562
Speaker 2: seat and I was like, OK, she is gonna go

1026
00:39:33,563 --> 00:39:35,843
Speaker 2: there because that was the big question. It's like, how

1027
00:39:35,843 --> 00:39:38,323
Speaker 2: do you romanticize the story of Cathy and Heathcliff if

1028
00:39:38,323 --> 00:39:41,924
Speaker 2: you let Heathcliff be Heathcliff, and he is violent and

1029
00:39:41,924 --> 00:39:44,743
Speaker 2: monstrous and terrifying.

1030
00:39:45,263 --> 00:39:48,583
Speaker 2: And then it was a fake out and I went, OK, fine, Emerald, whatever.

1031
00:39:48,743 --> 00:39:50,424
Speaker 2: But there was a moment where I thought they were

1032
00:39:50,424 --> 00:39:53,614
Speaker 2: actually going to do this and do the story of

1033
00:39:53,614 --> 00:39:56,553
Speaker 2: Heathcliff becoming this person who is abusive towards Isabella and

1034
00:39:56,553 --> 00:39:58,184
Speaker 2: going to that storyline, and I'm not saying it would

1035
00:39:58,184 --> 00:39:59,704
Speaker 2: have fit in what Emerald has done.

1036
00:40:00,023 --> 00:40:02,013
Speaker 2: But obviously that was a fake out design to then

1037
00:40:02,013 --> 00:40:04,603
Speaker 2: be like gotcha, and then it's revealed that Isabella is

1038
00:40:04,603 --> 00:40:07,404
Speaker 2: actually just writing these letters which she herself jokingly is like,

1039
00:40:07,414 --> 00:40:09,772
Speaker 2: I thought it was quite harrowing, and he's like it

1040
00:40:09,773 --> 00:40:11,933
Speaker 2: wasn't enough or they would have come to rescue you.

1041
00:40:12,293 --> 00:40:13,174
Speaker 2: Like that was

1042
00:40:13,174 --> 00:40:15,654
Speaker 1: strange but putting her in on the joke is such, yeah,

1043
00:40:15,773 --> 00:40:17,533
Speaker 1: this is, this is one of the most, the biggest departments.

1044
00:40:17,759 --> 00:40:20,898
Speaker 1: Departures from novel to movie is the change of Isabella

1045
00:40:20,898 --> 00:40:25,299
Speaker 1: Linton's character and moving her more into this like BDSM

1046
00:40:25,299 --> 00:40:27,458
Speaker 1: almost subservient by choice

1047
00:40:27,458 --> 00:40:30,018
Speaker 2: almost character. It's still like, yes, like cos obviously people

1048
00:40:30,019 --> 00:40:31,779
Speaker 2: who've never read the book, there were many people still

1049
00:40:31,779 --> 00:40:35,198
Speaker 2: upset by this who still saw it as Heathcliff being like,

1050
00:40:35,779 --> 00:40:38,458
Speaker 2: manipulating her or abusing his power over her, but it

1051
00:40:38,458 --> 00:40:42,299
Speaker 2: is portrayed as somewhat consensual and also as like them

1052
00:40:42,299 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 2: lying to,

1053
00:40:44,134 --> 00:40:46,974
Speaker 2: Nelly and to Cathy through these letters to try to

1054
00:40:46,974 --> 00:40:49,533
Speaker 2: like invoke a reaction rather than it being real, and

1055
00:40:49,533 --> 00:40:51,734
Speaker 2: they're both like winking at each other, you know

1056
00:40:51,734 --> 00:40:51,964
Speaker 1: that,

1057
00:40:52,053 --> 00:40:54,252
Speaker 1: yeah, it was hard to find my footing in that

1058
00:40:54,253 --> 00:40:55,734
Speaker 1: part because that was one part I did have the

1059
00:40:55,734 --> 00:40:57,174
Speaker 1: book in my head of like no no no, like

1060
00:40:57,174 --> 00:40:59,134
Speaker 1: she is very much the victim in this as she

1061
00:40:59,134 --> 00:41:01,694
Speaker 1: is in the book, but then in the movie version,

1062
00:41:02,333 --> 00:41:03,993
Speaker 1: I know some people are being like, can she consent,

1063
00:41:04,023 --> 00:41:05,934
Speaker 1: and I was like, girl, we're way past that. This

1064
00:41:05,934 --> 00:41:08,013
Speaker 1: is a whole new ball game of what we're not

1065
00:41:08,013 --> 00:41:10,654
Speaker 1: prepared for. But it's almost like Emerald wrote this new

1066
00:41:10,654 --> 00:41:13,533
Speaker 1: version of Isabella and Alison Olivia played her very much

1067
00:41:13,533 --> 00:41:17,073
Speaker 1: this way, it's like she has been repressed and infantilized

1068
00:41:17,414 --> 00:41:20,253
Speaker 1: to an extent that even though the Heathcliff situation isn't

1069
00:41:20,253 --> 00:41:23,093
Speaker 1: great for her, she almost sees it as like this

1070
00:41:23,093 --> 00:41:25,493
Speaker 1: crazy freedom and she's gone wild with the first time

1071
00:41:25,493 --> 00:41:28,933
Speaker 1: that she's tasted being an adult and being free, and it's,

1072
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:31,938
Speaker 1: Interesting with some of those scenes like the scene where

1073
00:41:31,938 --> 00:41:34,418
Speaker 1: she's like on all fours and crawling around,

1074
00:41:34,878 --> 00:41:37,109
Speaker 2: um and they're doing it to horrify Nelly

1075
00:41:39,118 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: exactly, it's all part of her ruse, but also they

1076
00:41:40,799 --> 00:41:43,478
Speaker 1: spent a whole day filming her crawling around the floor,

1077
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,678
Speaker 1: the actress in different sorts of dog forms to kind

1078
00:41:46,678 --> 00:41:49,078
Speaker 1: of get the right one that would represent that yes

1079
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:52,878
Speaker 1: she's being like submissive but she's also being like playful

1080
00:41:52,878 --> 00:41:56,039
Speaker 1: and she's trying to be animalistic and then the whole dog.

1081
00:41:56,364 --> 00:41:58,543
Speaker 1: The whole thing is because Emerald Fennell didn't want to

1082
00:41:58,543 --> 00:42:00,043
Speaker 1: have the scene from the book where

1083
00:42:00,214 --> 00:42:01,944
Speaker 2: Heathcliff makes her her dog,

1084
00:42:02,174 --> 00:42:06,583
Speaker 1: kills the dog, has Isabella murder her dog. Um. Yeah,

1085
00:42:06,664 --> 00:42:08,543
Speaker 1: it's a pretty, I mean it's hard to see him

1086
00:42:08,543 --> 00:42:11,542
Speaker 1: as a romantic lead after that, so I understand that's

1087
00:42:11,543 --> 00:42:13,063
Speaker 1: why they took it out of the movie, but it

1088
00:42:13,063 --> 00:42:15,823
Speaker 1: was a nod to that of like for book people

1089
00:42:15,823 --> 00:42:17,543
Speaker 1: especially like oh you know what he did to the

1090
00:42:17,543 --> 00:42:19,223
Speaker 1: dog in the book and now he's making her act

1091
00:42:19,224 --> 00:42:21,103
Speaker 1: like a dog. It was like the rung down.

1092
00:42:21,204 --> 00:42:23,143
Speaker 2: It was, but I, I'm not good with it.

1093
00:42:23,648 --> 00:42:24,178
Speaker 1: No, oh

1094
00:42:24,178 --> 00:42:26,769
Speaker 2: no, no, no, no, I don't think you are, but

1095
00:42:26,769 --> 00:42:27,167
Speaker 2: like I'm

1096
00:42:27,168 --> 00:42:28,059
Speaker 1: not like I loved it,

1097
00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:30,688
Speaker 2: my favorite scene, but like I'm not like cool with

1098
00:42:30,688 --> 00:42:32,089
Speaker 2: this thing that she seems to have done a few

1099
00:42:32,089 --> 00:42:34,769
Speaker 2: times of like a nod to the darker themes, cos

1100
00:42:34,769 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 2: you avoid, you didn't do it, you wanted people to

1101
00:42:36,799 --> 00:42:38,648
Speaker 2: watch this movie and go, what a nice love story,

1102
00:42:38,658 --> 00:42:40,668
Speaker 2: or like it was a little sad but I love him.

1103
00:42:41,009 --> 00:42:43,489
Speaker 2: So then commit to that. Don't bring in things that

1104
00:42:43,489 --> 00:42:45,368
Speaker 2: are like you're not willing to play with, I think

1105
00:42:45,368 --> 00:42:46,688
Speaker 2: is the thing, like this is a book with so

1106
00:42:46,688 --> 00:42:48,888
Speaker 2: many complex themes and she didn't want to touch them,

1107
00:42:49,408 --> 00:42:50,269
Speaker 2: so then don't touch them.

1108
00:42:50,864 --> 00:42:52,503
Speaker 1: I know, but she also wanted to sort of play

1109
00:42:52,503 --> 00:42:54,663
Speaker 1: in that space and be like, this is a nod

1110
00:42:54,664 --> 00:42:56,664
Speaker 1: to like how you like, like it was like to

1111
00:42:56,664 --> 00:42:58,493
Speaker 1: the audience of like, oh you think this is bad,

1112
00:42:58,503 --> 00:43:01,223
Speaker 1: because people were horrified by that scene of Heathcliff's treatment

1113
00:43:01,224 --> 00:43:03,743
Speaker 1: of Isabella, and it's almost like she wanted to say like,

1114
00:43:03,783 --> 00:43:06,063
Speaker 1: oh you think this is bad. Imagine if he was

1115
00:43:06,063 --> 00:43:10,143
Speaker 1: having her kill her dog and then and then raping her,

1116
00:43:10,224 --> 00:43:11,904
Speaker 1: which is again what happens in the book. It's so

1117
00:43:11,904 --> 00:43:13,773
Speaker 1: funny you're talking about the wink, that wink that she

1118
00:43:13,773 --> 00:43:15,083
Speaker 1: does to Nelly's character.

1119
00:43:15,571 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: Was an ad-lib just on the day and Emerald just

1120
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,770
Speaker 1: caught it on camera and she was like, it's so

1121
00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:22,500
Speaker 1: messed up, I need to keep it and so that's

1122
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:24,571
Speaker 2: why what Alison Oliver did is like with what she

1123
00:43:24,571 --> 00:43:26,611
Speaker 2: was given, I think she is very talented and she

1124
00:43:26,611 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: did a great job, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then obviously like,

1125
00:43:30,250 --> 00:43:32,291
Speaker 2: the thing that's a shoot-off of that is the Nellie

1126
00:43:32,291 --> 00:43:36,170
Speaker 2: Dean change as well and her, I guess, involvement in

1127
00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:39,071
Speaker 2: the tragedy of the Heathcliff and Cathy love story because

1128
00:43:39,081 --> 00:43:40,051
Speaker 2: for anyone who hasn't read the,

1129
00:43:40,397 --> 00:43:42,637
Speaker 2: She's sort of like the unreliable narrator of the book

1130
00:43:42,637 --> 00:43:46,038
Speaker 2: because she's telling the story to someone else. But she's also,

1131
00:43:46,147 --> 00:43:47,748
Speaker 2: while she does do some of the things that she

1132
00:43:47,748 --> 00:43:49,798
Speaker 2: does in the film in the book, it's not seen

1133
00:43:49,798 --> 00:43:53,147
Speaker 2: as like, she's the architect of all these people's destruction.

1134
00:43:53,518 --> 00:43:55,677
Speaker 2: And in the movie, I think they did do a

1135
00:43:55,677 --> 00:43:58,478
Speaker 2: good job of showing her background, right? Like they showed

1136
00:43:58,478 --> 00:44:00,277
Speaker 2: the moment where she threw the cup at the servant

1137
00:44:00,278 --> 00:44:03,877
Speaker 2: back at Wuthering Heights. It shows that Cathy can be

1138
00:44:03,877 --> 00:44:04,738
Speaker 2: mean to her.

1139
00:44:04,864 --> 00:44:07,985
Speaker 2: But it still framed her as the reason that the

1140
00:44:07,985 --> 00:44:11,264
Speaker 2: miscommunication and the like, the split between Cathy and Heathcliff

1141
00:44:11,264 --> 00:44:13,094
Speaker 2: started in the first place. And then she's also the

1142
00:44:13,094 --> 00:44:15,263
Speaker 2: one that goes and tells Linton about the affair. She's

1143
00:44:15,264 --> 00:44:18,123
Speaker 2: the one that refuses to give the letters to Cathy

1144
00:44:18,304 --> 00:44:21,384
Speaker 2: detailing this. She's the one who doesn't help Cathy when

1145
00:44:21,384 --> 00:44:24,665
Speaker 2: she's sick. It basically villainizes Nellie Dean, and when I

1146
00:44:24,665 --> 00:44:26,074
Speaker 2: watched it, I kind of thought, and you and I

1147
00:44:26,074 --> 00:44:27,834
Speaker 2: actually spoke about this when we left and I chased

1148
00:44:27,834 --> 00:44:29,485
Speaker 2: Laura down the street and refused to let her leave.

1149
00:44:29,934 --> 00:44:31,414
Speaker 1: Well, no, tell the story correctly, we went and had

1150
00:44:31,414 --> 00:44:33,523
Speaker 1: 2 bottles of wine and talked about it. I was like,

1151
00:44:33,614 --> 00:44:35,573
Speaker 1: come on, let's discuss literature.

1152
00:44:35,654 --> 00:44:35,773
Speaker 2: I

1153
00:44:35,773 --> 00:44:38,974
Speaker 2: love literature, but I think she just wasn't complicated enough

1154
00:44:38,974 --> 00:44:41,093
Speaker 2: for people who don't know the whole story because all

1155
00:44:41,093 --> 00:44:43,293
Speaker 2: I have seen, all I have been messaged, cause I

1156
00:44:43,293 --> 00:44:46,134
Speaker 2: put up Justice for Nelly Deen and I was flooded

1157
00:44:46,134 --> 00:44:48,373
Speaker 2: with people who have only seen the film, who obviously

1158
00:44:48,374 --> 00:44:50,933
Speaker 2: have no other way to interpret it, obviously, and they're going,

1159
00:44:51,053 --> 00:44:53,174
Speaker 2: she's the culprit, she's the reason this all happened, she's

1160
00:44:53,174 --> 00:44:53,793
Speaker 2: the villain.

1161
00:44:54,114 --> 00:44:57,103
Speaker 2: It's interesting that that was the decision that Emerald made

1162
00:44:57,103 --> 00:44:58,773
Speaker 2: and that that's how so many people have read it,

1163
00:44:59,023 --> 00:45:00,022
Speaker 2: because I'm seeing it online

1164
00:45:00,023 --> 00:45:00,343
Speaker 2: everywhere.

1165
00:45:00,454 --> 00:45:02,343
Speaker 1: Oh no, I know people think she's the villain, and

1166
00:45:02,343 --> 00:45:04,263
Speaker 1: obviously I've read the book a few times, so maybe

1167
00:45:04,263 --> 00:45:06,174
Speaker 1: I have a bit of bias, but I was, I was,

1168
00:45:06,224 --> 00:45:09,333
Speaker 1: I had to separate book Nelly and movie Nelly because

1169
00:45:09,343 --> 00:45:11,664
Speaker 1: they're so different, so I actually didn't find it hard

1170
00:45:11,664 --> 00:45:14,503
Speaker 1: to separate them. And in my head I didn't find

1171
00:45:14,503 --> 00:45:18,864
Speaker 1: movie Nelly the villain because I got everything she was doing,

1172
00:45:18,984 --> 00:45:21,643
Speaker 1: she and Cathy were in this back and forth game. Also,

1173
00:45:21,823 --> 00:45:23,333
Speaker 1: she was probably like, yeah, you shouldn't marry him.

1174
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:26,079
Speaker 1: Cliff, go and marry the nice rich man down the

1175
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:28,138
Speaker 1: road who's gonna look after you because you're a child

1176
00:45:28,138 --> 00:45:29,118
Speaker 1: and and

1177
00:45:29,118 --> 00:45:29,478
Speaker 2: let us

1178
00:45:29,478 --> 00:45:30,478
Speaker 2: live a nice life and

1179
00:45:30,478 --> 00:45:32,188
Speaker 1: let us go live a nice life away from this

1180
00:45:32,188 --> 00:45:35,438
Speaker 1: abusive world and so I sort of, there's a lot

1181
00:45:35,438 --> 00:45:39,039
Speaker 1: of love and hate between Nelly and Cathy, and I

1182
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,589
Speaker 1: think that's because Emerald saw them, they're more sisters in

1183
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:43,559
Speaker 1: the movie than they are in the book, and so

1184
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:46,599
Speaker 1: that's their dynamic, and I thought the most interesting part

1185
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:49,299
Speaker 1: of Cathy's whole arc is at the end where she

1186
00:45:49,299 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: says to Nelly like don't worry, I won't tell, that

1187
00:45:51,799 --> 00:45:52,878
Speaker 1: you basically like,

1188
00:45:54,384 --> 00:45:56,734
Speaker 1: This is part of my, you know, your fault, and

1189
00:45:56,734 --> 00:45:59,583
Speaker 1: then they have that moment and that felt very earned

1190
00:45:59,583 --> 00:45:59,973
Speaker 1: to me.

1191
00:46:00,214 --> 00:46:02,333
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and for the people who do think

1192
00:46:02,333 --> 00:46:03,853
Speaker 2: she's a massive villain, it's like she spends all her

1193
00:46:03,853 --> 00:46:07,752
Speaker 2: time watching these two idiots in a situationship, just being

1194
00:46:07,753 --> 00:46:09,484
Speaker 2: awful to each other, like let the girl live, I

1195
00:46:09,484 --> 00:46:10,493
Speaker 2: don't care if she's a villain, fine. And

1196
00:46:10,493 --> 00:46:11,013
Speaker 1: she could have killed

1197
00:46:11,013 --> 00:46:11,993
Speaker 1: Cathy earlier if she wanted

1198
00:46:11,993 --> 00:46:12,134
Speaker 1: to.

1199
00:46:12,253 --> 00:46:14,323
Speaker 2: She could have pushed her off the moors, she's had

1200
00:46:14,323 --> 00:46:17,493
Speaker 2: ample opportunity, and you see it, right, you see how

1201
00:46:17,493 --> 00:46:20,783
Speaker 2: distraught and upset she is when she realizes that Cathy

1202
00:46:20,783 --> 00:46:22,003
Speaker 2: wasn't just whining for once.

1203
00:46:22,589 --> 00:46:23,388
Speaker 2: That there was to

1204
00:46:23,388 --> 00:46:25,989
Speaker 1: be fair, Cathy says she's gonna die every day, rela relatable.

1205
00:46:26,549 --> 00:46:28,377
Speaker 1: So how was she to know that this time,

1206
00:46:28,468 --> 00:46:30,029
Speaker 2: how would you, but I thought that was, I do

1207
00:46:30,029 --> 00:46:32,609
Speaker 2: think that was a really good scene between those two actors,

1208
00:46:32,628 --> 00:46:34,549
Speaker 2: and I just thought it was so emotional. I did

1209
00:46:34,549 --> 00:46:35,299
Speaker 2: shed a tear for them.

1210
00:46:35,549 --> 00:46:37,549
Speaker 1: Yeah, OK, so getting into the very final moments of

1211
00:46:37,549 --> 00:46:40,708
Speaker 1: the scene where Heathcliff learns that Cathy is not long

1212
00:46:40,708 --> 00:46:43,789
Speaker 1: for this world, and he jumps on his horse and

1213
00:46:43,789 --> 00:46:46,388
Speaker 1: races across the moors only to not get there in

1214
00:46:46,388 --> 00:46:48,829
Speaker 1: time and find her dead body under the sheet, and

1215
00:46:48,829 --> 00:46:51,688
Speaker 1: the little flesh wall is dead behind her as well.

1216
00:46:52,353 --> 00:46:54,073
Speaker 2: Again, visually stunning,

1217
00:46:54,263 --> 00:46:58,474
Speaker 1: visually incredible. Oh the blood coming out the bed. So

1218
00:46:58,474 --> 00:47:00,593
Speaker 1: I know it's a bit hacky and I know that

1219
00:47:00,593 --> 00:47:02,833
Speaker 1: everyone was like, we've seen this before. I know it's

1220
00:47:02,833 --> 00:47:05,194
Speaker 1: a bit hacky, but it still worked as a scene

1221
00:47:05,194 --> 00:47:08,913
Speaker 1: of like the life leaving her body and it's so

1222
00:47:08,914 --> 00:47:12,434
Speaker 1: visceral but also beautiful in a way, and Cathy is

1223
00:47:12,434 --> 00:47:15,323
Speaker 1: the one character who all the way through wore these bright.

1224
00:47:15,659 --> 00:47:21,130
Speaker 1: of red to signify to signify the turmoil and the

1225
00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:23,449
Speaker 1: destruction that she's in and then to have that red

1226
00:47:23,449 --> 00:47:25,770
Speaker 1: then moved from her costume and her skin into her

1227
00:47:25,770 --> 00:47:29,130
Speaker 1: own blood coming out across the bed was a really

1228
00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:33,669
Speaker 1: kind of tragically beautiful, end of the symbolism of that character,

1229
00:47:33,729 --> 00:47:35,530
Speaker 1: so I got it and of course he's holding her

1230
00:47:35,530 --> 00:47:38,570
Speaker 1: corpse and crying and as we know that is only half.

1231
00:47:38,736 --> 00:47:41,135
Speaker 1: Halfway through the book, but Emerald chose to end the

1232
00:47:41,135 --> 00:47:41,706
Speaker 1: story there

1233
00:47:41,706 --> 00:47:43,665
Speaker 2: and really end it there because they don't have kids

1234
00:47:43,666 --> 00:47:44,026
Speaker 2: either.

1235
00:47:44,486 --> 00:47:46,226
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because the whole, we want to get into

1236
00:47:46,226 --> 00:47:49,266
Speaker 1: the whole, the whole book is Cathy and Heathcliff's children

1237
00:47:49,266 --> 00:47:51,926
Speaker 1: and what happens to them and and the next generation, and,

1238
00:47:51,986 --> 00:47:53,605
Speaker 1: but I, I'm OK with not having that,

1239
00:47:53,746 --> 00:47:55,746
Speaker 2: most of them do end there, and I'm OK with

1240
00:47:55,746 --> 00:47:57,545
Speaker 2: if you were gonna end there not giving them kids

1241
00:47:57,545 --> 00:47:59,385
Speaker 2: also means it does end there for people who are

1242
00:47:59,385 --> 00:48:01,825
Speaker 2: only experiencing the film. So I think that's a good decision.

1243
00:48:02,444 --> 00:48:04,823
Speaker 1: So, I mean I wasn't super moved at the end.

1244
00:48:04,904 --> 00:48:06,783
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I mean I liked the movie,

1245
00:48:06,984 --> 00:48:09,793
Speaker 1: but people around us were sobbing sobbing, you were crying,

1246
00:48:09,823 --> 00:48:11,174
Speaker 1: and I guess it's that idea I

1247
00:48:11,174 --> 00:48:14,263
Speaker 2: was misty. OK, I wasn't sobbing sobbing. That's

1248
00:48:14,263 --> 00:48:14,783
Speaker 1: that's your story

1249
00:48:15,224 --> 00:48:17,644
Speaker 2: because, no, cos I, I do sob sob sometimes, whereas

1250
00:48:17,644 --> 00:48:20,944
Speaker 2: this was like I was moved, I was upset, but

1251
00:48:20,944 --> 00:48:23,904
Speaker 2: I also was just like, OK, and then Dying for

1252
00:48:23,904 --> 00:48:25,734
Speaker 2: Love by Charlie XCX came on and I was like

1253
00:48:25,734 --> 00:48:27,944
Speaker 2: that'll do it. Why are we shaking arse to the

1254
00:48:27,944 --> 00:48:30,303
Speaker 2: song about Margot dying, but anyway, still love.

1255
00:48:30,438 --> 00:48:30,958
Speaker 2: It's a great song.

1256
00:48:31,279 --> 00:48:33,868
Speaker 1: So overall final thoughts as we finish up now, our

1257
00:48:33,868 --> 00:48:38,398
Speaker 1: big epic debrief. I thought Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights was

1258
00:48:38,398 --> 00:48:42,478
Speaker 1: stylish and beautiful and evocative, but I also think it

1259
00:48:42,478 --> 00:48:46,158
Speaker 1: very much symbolizes the downfall of society and pop culture

1260
00:48:46,158 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: as we know it. Because as visually stunning as it was,

1261
00:48:49,878 --> 00:48:53,438
Speaker 1: it is also very much made for people who can't

1262
00:48:53,438 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: comprehend the complexities of the book and the story and

1263
00:48:56,319 --> 00:48:58,518
Speaker 1: who needed this story presented to them.

1264
00:48:58,993 --> 00:49:02,543
Speaker 1: In this very almost like TikTok clips, like Instagram clips,

1265
00:49:02,563 --> 00:49:05,533
Speaker 1: like a music video, and to have all the nuance

1266
00:49:05,533 --> 00:49:09,473
Speaker 1: and everything stripped away and have a smooth-brained Wuthering

1267
00:49:09,474 --> 00:49:10,283
Speaker 2: Heights and I don't

1268
00:49:11,993 --> 00:49:14,353
Speaker 1: smooth-brained Wuthering Heights. I never thought I'd live to see

1269
00:49:14,353 --> 00:49:16,833
Speaker 1: the day. I don't, I appreciate the movie but I

1270
00:49:16,833 --> 00:49:18,783
Speaker 1: don't love what it symbolizes. I,

1271
00:49:18,793 --> 00:49:21,353
Speaker 2: uh, I think, like you said, when I put my

1272
00:49:21,353 --> 00:49:23,393
Speaker 2: blinders on and I watched this movie and had it.

1273
00:49:23,726 --> 00:49:25,486
Speaker 2: Been called something

1274
00:49:25,486 --> 00:49:27,395
Speaker 1: else, a brooding man on the moors,

1275
00:49:28,256 --> 00:49:28,364
Speaker 2: guy

1276
00:49:28,365 --> 00:49:32,476
Speaker 1: gets sad, woman with vagina plait. So many other names,

1277
00:49:32,486 --> 00:49:33,405
Speaker 1: it could have been so many other

1278
00:49:33,405 --> 00:49:33,825
Speaker 1: things,

1279
00:49:33,845 --> 00:49:35,405
Speaker 2: like, and I think you and I spoke about this

1280
00:49:35,405 --> 00:49:37,926
Speaker 2: a little and it's ridiculous, but like, The Lion King's

1281
00:49:37,926 --> 00:49:40,365
Speaker 2: not called Hamlet. Like 10 Things I Hate About You

1282
00:49:40,365 --> 00:49:42,486
Speaker 2: is not called The Taming of the Shrew, and those

1283
00:49:42,486 --> 00:49:47,325
Speaker 2: are brilliant films interpretations. And if you wanna interpret something

1284
00:49:47,325 --> 00:49:48,205
Speaker 2: and you wanna say something.

1285
00:49:48,367 --> 00:49:50,897
Speaker 2: Different. Obviously it's great to have one, something else or

1286
00:49:50,897 --> 00:49:53,338
Speaker 2: more interesting to say to add to the conversation, which

1287
00:49:53,338 --> 00:49:55,538
Speaker 2: I don't think she did. I'm not hating on the film,

1288
00:49:55,578 --> 00:49:56,297
Speaker 2: but I don't think she did.

1289
00:49:56,347 --> 00:49:59,278
Speaker 1: Emerald Fennell as a director is very stylistic and she

1290
00:49:59,278 --> 00:50:01,498
Speaker 1: has a few little things to say of women and

1291
00:50:01,498 --> 00:50:03,567
Speaker 1: men and how men can be bad to women. She

1292
00:50:03,568 --> 00:50:05,097
Speaker 1: has a few little things to say of look at

1293
00:50:05,097 --> 00:50:07,578
Speaker 1: these rich people, aren't they crazy? But apart from that,

1294
00:50:07,738 --> 00:50:09,338
Speaker 1: she's a visual creator, she doesn't have a lot to

1295
00:50:09,338 --> 00:50:09,657
Speaker 1: say.

1296
00:50:09,897 --> 00:50:12,818
Speaker 2: And like I would have really enjoyed probably this movie

1297
00:50:12,818 --> 00:50:13,018
Speaker 2: if you.

1298
00:50:13,179 --> 00:50:16,229
Speaker 2: Actually just released it as something else because I knowing

1299
00:50:16,229 --> 00:50:19,029
Speaker 2: the book and knowing what this movie entailed, I would

1300
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:22,100
Speaker 2: not have gone, oh my God, it's Wuthering Heights without like,

1301
00:50:22,189 --> 00:50:24,830
Speaker 2: like really, and I think the reason that she so

1302
00:50:24,830 --> 00:50:26,979
Speaker 2: badly wanted to call it Wuthering Heights and stick to

1303
00:50:26,979 --> 00:50:28,909
Speaker 2: that is she still wanted it to be like a

1304
00:50:28,909 --> 00:50:32,909
Speaker 2: Gothic inspired, really cool period drama, and she didn't wanna

1305
00:50:32,909 --> 00:50:36,409
Speaker 2: lose that IP and the cultural capital of Emily Bronte's work,

1306
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:37,830
Speaker 2: and so she was like, well no, I'm just,

1307
00:50:37,971 --> 00:50:41,741
Speaker 2: Making my version of Wuthering Heights, and I was like, well,

1308
00:50:42,161 --> 00:50:44,342
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, but I did, I really enjoyed

1309
00:50:44,342 --> 00:50:45,790
Speaker 2: a lot of things about this film. I think I

1310
00:50:45,791 --> 00:50:47,321
Speaker 2: agree with you just on like every single point, you're

1311
00:50:47,322 --> 00:50:50,102
Speaker 2: just much smarter and more eloquent than I am. But

1312
00:50:50,241 --> 00:50:52,642
Speaker 2: something for me is just that, and I know we've

1313
00:50:52,642 --> 00:50:54,521
Speaker 2: spoken about this, but it all for me just came

1314
00:50:54,521 --> 00:50:57,711
Speaker 2: back to the decision to want Jacob Bordi because she's,

1315
00:50:57,761 --> 00:50:59,362
Speaker 2: and she said, right, yeah, it's because of the book

1316
00:50:59,362 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: cover blah blah blah, and she saw him on the

1317
00:51:00,961 --> 00:51:02,642
Speaker 2: set of Salt Burn and she's like, that's my Heath clip.

1318
00:51:03,243 --> 00:51:05,573
Speaker 2: She wanted Jacob Bordi, she wanted it to be a

1319
00:51:05,573 --> 00:51:07,454
Speaker 2: love story with a hot guy at the center of it,

1320
00:51:07,493 --> 00:51:09,753
Speaker 2: and in order to do that, you can't make him

1321
00:51:10,134 --> 00:51:12,634
Speaker 2: a violent monster. Yes. And so you have to cut

1322
00:51:12,634 --> 00:51:15,174
Speaker 2: and change the way that Isabella's story plays out. You

1323
00:51:15,174 --> 00:51:17,493
Speaker 2: can't make Cathy too much of a brat because this

1324
00:51:17,493 --> 00:51:18,924
Speaker 2: guy still needs to be in love with her, so

1325
00:51:18,924 --> 00:51:19,974
Speaker 2: therefore that's stole down.

1326
00:51:20,404 --> 00:51:22,763
Speaker 2: You need them not to be the reason they don't

1327
00:51:22,763 --> 00:51:24,484
Speaker 2: end up together, otherwise it's just not a tragedy, it's

1328
00:51:24,484 --> 00:51:27,163
Speaker 2: just two idiots who can't communicate. So, you make Nelly

1329
00:51:27,164 --> 00:51:29,874
Speaker 2: Dean the ultimate villain. All of the things that I'm like, oh,

1330
00:51:29,884 --> 00:51:31,724
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about, it does come back to just

1331
00:51:31,724 --> 00:51:34,234
Speaker 2: wanting Jacob Bordi, and obviously the reason people are so

1332
00:51:34,234 --> 00:51:36,114
Speaker 2: upset about that as well is that he was whitewashed,

1333
00:51:36,124 --> 00:51:39,043
Speaker 2: and I do think that's fucked up. But one article

1334
00:51:39,043 --> 00:51:40,603
Speaker 2: I did just quickly want to mention that I read

1335
00:51:40,603 --> 00:51:44,103
Speaker 2: was by a Refinery29 journalist, Kathleen Newman Breman, and,

1336
00:51:44,444 --> 00:51:47,033
Speaker 2: She wrote an article essentially saying that like while yes,

1337
00:51:47,283 --> 00:51:50,283
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be whitewashing in 2026, she said this movie

1338
00:51:50,283 --> 00:51:52,763
Speaker 2: wasn't smart or deep enough to handle Heathcliff being a

1339
00:51:52,763 --> 00:51:54,884
Speaker 2: man of color, and I actually think that that is

1340
00:51:54,884 --> 00:51:56,644
Speaker 2: the thing about a lot of these themes and a

1341
00:51:56,644 --> 00:51:58,763
Speaker 2: lot of the critiques that people have is, yeah, I

1342
00:51:58,763 --> 00:52:01,144
Speaker 2: actually I don't think Emerald Fennell was gonna pull off

1343
00:52:01,144 --> 00:52:04,003
Speaker 2: this story if she did it that way. Yes. And

1344
00:52:04,003 --> 00:52:06,323
Speaker 2: I agree with that take. She says that like Heathcliff

1345
00:52:06,323 --> 00:52:08,013
Speaker 2: and Cathy have a tumultuous and toxic relationship.

1346
00:52:08,114 --> 00:52:11,993
Speaker 2: He's surly and cruel and vindictive. He emotionally terrorizes Isabella

1347
00:52:11,993 --> 00:52:14,433
Speaker 2: Linton because he can't have Cathy, and she says it

1348
00:52:14,434 --> 00:52:16,563
Speaker 2: would take skill, care, and precision to pull this kind

1349
00:52:16,563 --> 00:52:19,884
Speaker 2: of thing off, especially if you involve a man of color,

1350
00:52:19,924 --> 00:52:21,984
Speaker 2: and she doesn't think Fennell has the range to do that.

1351
00:52:22,243 --> 00:52:24,073
Speaker 1: No, I'd agree, and I'd agree on that. That's

1352
00:52:24,073 --> 00:52:25,683
Speaker 2: a, I think that's a great point, and like that

1353
00:52:25,684 --> 00:52:27,444
Speaker 2: comes down to me for like what my issues with

1354
00:52:27,444 --> 00:52:29,364
Speaker 2: this movie are, and had you called it something else

1355
00:52:29,364 --> 00:52:31,904
Speaker 2: or like really adapted it and had something to say.

1356
00:52:32,924 --> 00:52:35,484
Speaker 2: Sure, but I don't think she did, but beautiful

1357
00:52:35,484 --> 00:52:38,684
Speaker 1: gowns, beautiful gowns, so important, and I think that's a

1358
00:52:38,684 --> 00:52:41,684
Speaker 1: beautiful moment to say thus ends our brutally honest review

1359
00:52:41,684 --> 00:52:44,543
Speaker 1: of Wuthering Heights, a movie that is style over substance,

1360
00:52:44,684 --> 00:52:46,374
Speaker 1: but I love it,

1361
00:52:46,724 --> 00:52:47,543
Speaker 1: it's good style.

1362
00:52:48,484 --> 00:52:49,583
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to.

1363
00:52:49,803 --> 00:52:52,364
Speaker 2: Spill today. If you're enjoying what you're hearing, please leave

1364
00:52:52,364 --> 00:52:54,243
Speaker 2: us a rating and a review. It takes just a

1365
00:52:54,243 --> 00:52:56,364
Speaker 2: second and it's the single best way to help us.

1366
00:52:56,684 --> 00:52:59,484
Speaker 2: Don't forget our morning dose of entertainment news, morning tea,

1367
00:52:59,603 --> 00:53:01,603
Speaker 2: drops right here in the feed on Monday morning at

1368
00:53:01,603 --> 00:53:04,384
Speaker 2: 7:00 a.m. Just hit follow so you don't miss a thing.

1369
00:53:04,603 --> 00:53:05,464
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening,

1370
00:53:05,603 --> 00:53:06,563
Speaker 1: bye, bye.