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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia. Out loud. What women are actually talking about

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday, the twenty second of October. My name is

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Speaker 2: Holly Waynwright.

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Speaker 3: I am Amelia Lester and I'm Claire Murphy.

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Speaker 2: And on our agenda for today, I watched The Golden

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Speaker 2: Bachelor and now I need therapy, although maybe not for

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Speaker 2: the reason you expect.

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin's daughter Apple is everywhere right now?

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Speaker 1: Is this how a star is born? I want to

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Speaker 1: unpack the strategy.

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Speaker 4: And have you ladies heard about the October slump? It

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Speaker 4: sounds awful, but we have some tips on how to

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Speaker 4: pick that butt up out of its rut and get

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Speaker 4: your brain back in the game.

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Speaker 2: Thank god for that. But first, Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 1: Albow went to the White House on Monday. Finally got

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Speaker 1: it how they had a lovely lunch he and Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: I was concerned because on the lunch menu for dessert

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Speaker 1: they were having a pavlova, which sounded great, but it

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Speaker 1: was served with pair and ice cream, and my personal

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Speaker 1: view is that pavlova should not be served with ice

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Speaker 1: cream because traditionally you have worked cream on top.

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Speaker 4: So why did it have to have fruit accompanying it?

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Speaker 4: Because fruit should be part of the pavlova?

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Speaker 2: Should it not a lot of questions so a little

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Speaker 2: bit like the Americans didn't understand Pavlova.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't the most awkward part of the event though,

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Speaker 1: look overall it went pretty well. I think the consensus

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Speaker 1: is that Albanezi did a good job, but there was

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Speaker 1: one moment which I still cannot even think about without

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Speaker 1: experiencing full body squarem.

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Speaker 2: Full body squirm.

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Speaker 1: Sky News political editor Andrew Klennell was at a press

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Speaker 1: conference afterwards and he did a little bit of us

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Speaker 1: shall we say shit stirring I believe it's the technical

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Speaker 1: term love that he asked Trump about disparaging comments that

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Speaker 1: Australia's ambassador to the US, Kevin Rudd, had once made

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Speaker 1: about him. Let's take a listen, be.

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Speaker 5: Concerned in Australia that it's taken nine months to get

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Speaker 5: this meeting. Have you had any concerns with this administration

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Speaker 5: with a stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things

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Speaker 5: the ambassador said about you in the past. He's strain

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Speaker 5: an ambassador.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about him. If he said bad,

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Speaker 1: then maybe he'll like to apologize. I really don't know

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Speaker 1: an ambassador to say something bad about it. Don't tell

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Speaker 1: me where is he?

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Speaker 6: Is he still working for me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said bad.

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Speaker 5: Before I took dispositions to prison.

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Speaker 1: But I don't like you either, and probably never will.

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Speaker 1: So what you can't see that is Trump turns to Alberanezer,

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Speaker 1: who's sitting next to him, and says, do you know

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Speaker 1: about this guy's he's still working for you? And Albo

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Speaker 1: clearly had to make a decision in that second as

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Speaker 1: to what to do.

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Speaker 2: No, my decision would have been sliding under them, literally

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Speaker 2: out under the jamas.

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Speaker 1: Simpson retreating into the hedge, and he just has this

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Speaker 1: enormous smile on his face, which may be him on

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Speaker 1: the verge of tears and has to admit that the

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Speaker 1: person who called Trump a village idiot and the most

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Speaker 1: destructive president in history is in fact sitting on the

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Speaker 1: other side.

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Speaker 2: Of the table.

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Speaker 1: Claire, you are a news hound. Is this the most

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Speaker 1: awkward moment in diplomacy you've ever seen? I?

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Speaker 3: Mean, we've had worse.

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Speaker 4: There's been hot Mike moments which you know, have landed

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Speaker 4: our leadership team in trouble in the past, which I

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Speaker 4: think is potentially worse. But this was so beautiful. I

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Speaker 4: just I could not love this moment more. For the

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Speaker 4: starter is I don't know if it's a prerequisite if

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Speaker 4: you are an Australian reporter working at the White House

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Speaker 4: you have to sound as quintessentially Australian as humanly possible,

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Speaker 4: because that question could not have sounded more broadly aussy.

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Speaker 4: Then just that beautiful setup of knowing that Kevin Rudder

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Speaker 4: is sitting at that table, and Elbow knows that Kevin

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Speaker 4: Rudder is sitting at that table, and then for Trump

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Speaker 4: to drop it right in his lap and then he

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Speaker 4: has to deal with it, and I think he dealt

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Speaker 4: with it just beautifully in the fact that he just

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Speaker 4: literally pointed across the table at Kevin, like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's that guy.

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Speaker 3: It just felt like.

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Speaker 4: This moment of it could have been the undoing of

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Speaker 4: all of this, but I feel like it's almost made

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Speaker 4: it the ceiling of the deal, Like it made it

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Speaker 4: feel like, oh my god, they've had a bit of

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Speaker 4: a lull and I did hear that afterwards, Trump did

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Speaker 4: give Kevin Rut a full pardon for his past comments.

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Speaker 4: But it could have potentially been so much worse, but

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Speaker 4: it felt so very Australian. I think it just played

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Speaker 4: into every American person's vision of what Alarican ossie kind

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Speaker 4: of is in that moment, and I think it just

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Speaker 4: played out beautifully. I think it couldn't have gone better.

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Speaker 2: How is it a defense, like so he called Trump

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Speaker 2: village idiot? Let's be honest, there are many of us

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Speaker 2: who think good on you, Kevin. You said what everybody thought.

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Speaker 2: How is it a defense to be like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: mister president. But before I had this, if you're like,

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Speaker 2: I totally think you're a village idiot, but I'm not

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Speaker 2: allowed to say it now, It's basically what he was saying.

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Speaker 1: Holly, you had a really interesting comment when we were

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Speaker 1: chatting about it, which is that Albo and Trump represent

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Speaker 1: two very different ideas of masculinity. Definitely, And do you

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Speaker 1: feel like those two ideas ended up being complimentary rather

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Speaker 1: than clashing in this moment?

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Speaker 2: Look, it actually looked that way. I know there are

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Speaker 2: people who like to paint Albow as weak because he

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Speaker 2: is not the alpha male guy, or at least outwardly

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Speaker 2: he isn't. I mean, one assumes that he has to

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Speaker 2: have a pretty steel spine to get to where he is.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't perform a kind of alpha male energy. And

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Speaker 2: there are people who like you to believe he was weak.

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Speaker 2: But I think that the fact that he didn't hide

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Speaker 2: under the table, which is what I would have done,

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Speaker 2: or been like, no, I've never heard of him. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: He also didn't stop or starter either.

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Speaker 4: He didn't do like an uh uh uh like there

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Speaker 4: was none of that moment either, Like he just went

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Speaker 4: with it.

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Speaker 2: It suggests a bit of mutual respect to be fair,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, not that everybody wants to suck

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Speaker 2: up to Trump, but he is kind of important in

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Speaker 2: the scheme of things at the moment, as even Kevin

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Speaker 2: Rudd has to acknowledge.

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Speaker 6: Friends.

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Speaker 2: Last night, I watched The Golden Bachelor. I'm hoping it

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Speaker 2: will contribute to my eventual Walkley nomination. In case you

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Speaker 2: missed it, here's what you need to know about the

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Speaker 2: show that started on Monday night. It's a new version

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Speaker 2: of The Bachelor, right that show the normal Bachelor after

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Speaker 2: domination for several years in the early teens, and then

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Speaker 2: the Bachelorette spin off and that's success. It got canceled

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Speaker 2: in May last year, and the broad consensus is that

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Speaker 2: people really aren't into that kind of more innocent dating

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Speaker 2: show anymore. We like our maths, we like our fisty cuffs,

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Speaker 2: all that kind of thing. So nine have rolled the

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Speaker 2: dice on the idea that the people who are still

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Speaker 2: watching this kind of TV are actually Generation X and

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Speaker 2: they've given us our own version of grown up women

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Speaker 2: wearing lovely frocks and behaving in really inappropriate fashion.

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Speaker 1: So what ages are we talking?

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Speaker 2: Bear who's the Bachelor, And yes he is called Beer

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Speaker 2: and he's originally from Canada, but he's lived in Australia

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Speaker 2: a really long time, but he hasn't lost his accent.

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Speaker 3: Can't relate.

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Speaker 2: Bear is sixty one, he's a widower, his wife died

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Speaker 2: thirteen years ago, and he is choosing from twenty women

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Speaker 2: aged between fifty one and sixty six.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how they came up with that age group.

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Speaker 2: I know, right well, maybe it was his settings on Tinder.

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Speaker 7: Yet.

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Speaker 2: You know how you can pick. I think maybe that

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Speaker 2: was where he was already picking, right, so he seems

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Speaker 2: nice and everything bear like, kind of boring, kind of nondescript.

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Speaker 2: But who's not boring? Of the women and they steal

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Speaker 2: all the airtime, as they always do in these kind

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Speaker 2: of shows. But seeing this big group of grown up

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Speaker 2: women kind of entering the house, wearing their frocks, doing

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Speaker 2: all those things, the silly stunts they do. Somebody comes

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Speaker 2: on a horse, somebody comes in a wedding dress, blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. It kind of feels novel to

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Speaker 2: see women of that generation doing that. And I'm on

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Speaker 2: picking how I feel about it. But one of the

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Speaker 2: more complicated feelings watching this show brought up for me

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Speaker 2: is what I need to unpack today. There's a story

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Speaker 2: on Mamma Mia called Opinion because it was an opinion piece.

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Speaker 2: The Golden Bachelor highlights a new class divide. Now, it's

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Speaker 2: important to note that this particular story, as I'm talking now,

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Speaker 2: has been read by thousands and thousands of women and

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Speaker 2: is going very well on Mamma Mia, So plenty of

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Speaker 2: people are clicking on this story, and in it, the

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Speaker 2: writer Rachel Wells argues that what's most apparent when you

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Speaker 2: get twenty over fifty women in one room, is who

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Speaker 2: has had work and who has not. And she argues

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Speaker 2: that that distinction is all about who can afford it

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Speaker 2: and who can't, and that is like becoming a new

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Speaker 2: class divide.

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Speaker 1: Interesting because before it would have just been probably the

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Speaker 1: clothes or maybe the accent, but now it's written on

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Speaker 1: their faces.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And so I think that's true. But I

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Speaker 2: also think it's deeper than that, because I think that

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Speaker 2: the cold heart truth is that as a culture, and

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Speaker 2: possibly as a generation, I'm perfectly willing to be taken

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Speaker 2: to task by my younger co hosts today that we

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Speaker 2: are so obsessed with women's aging faces and the vast

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Speaker 2: array of decisions that are out there now, obviously informed

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Speaker 2: by things like access and money and desire, the vast

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Speaker 2: array of choices is that it's impossible to watch this

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Speaker 2: show and not be thinking. And this is what my

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Speaker 2: inner monologue was doing. And I'm always very staunch about

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Speaker 2: you do you when it comes to aging, it's impossible

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Speaker 2: not to be thinking, oh she's aging, well, oh she's

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Speaker 2: done a bit too much. Oh subtle talks, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of wrinkles.

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Speaker 7: We like.

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Speaker 2: That is basically it's impossible to not be reading their

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Speaker 2: faces like a rich text on aging. And I kind

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Speaker 2: of hate myself for that because that's just inside my

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Speaker 2: own head. It's like a smorgas board of beauty and

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Speaker 2: body choices. And I barely even looked at Bear like

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Speaker 2: he might as well have not been on screen. I'm

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Speaker 2: aware that that's the problem position in my own mind,

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Speaker 2: and it used to be on MoMA Mia for example,

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Speaker 2: that when we RecA and it still is to be honest,

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Speaker 2: when we recap reality shows and things, we've always stayed

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Speaker 2: away from commenting on women's individual appearances. And one of

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Speaker 2: the main reasons for that is because there's plenty of

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Speaker 2: that all over the internet, and almost always that gets

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Speaker 2: turned into the stick that she used to beat those

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Speaker 2: women with. It'll just be like, Wow, she's done as

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Speaker 2: pretty as she thinks she is, and she looks a

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Speaker 2: bit older, she needs to get to the gym, and

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Speaker 2: just all this awful, toxic dialogue about what women look like.

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Speaker 2: So broadly we've left all that alone because we don't

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Speaker 2: want to add to the pylon. But I feel like

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Speaker 2: when it comes to aging, women's faces and aging, we're like,

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Speaker 2: in a bit of a new era of disclosure. We've

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Speaker 2: talked about it on the show, a little bit of

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Speaker 2: disclosure and interest and sharing information, Amelia. Is that true?

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Speaker 2: Are we in this new age of disclosure? Or am

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Speaker 2: I just trying to justify what's going on inside my head?

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Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting what you said that MoMA

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Speaker 1: Mia used to have this policy, but that you feel

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Speaker 1: like it's changing a little bit. And I think the

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Speaker 1: reason why that might be is because, even from a

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Speaker 1: feminist perspective, which is where this conversation and where Mumma

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Speaker 1: Mira is coming from on this, you have to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that the connection between how you look and your age,

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Speaker 1: that link is now being weakened. We can no longer

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Speaker 1: safely assume what age someone is by how they look,

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Speaker 1: because now we have all sorts of options available that

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Speaker 1: we didn't have before. It reminded me of another big

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Speaker 1: debate that's happening in media at the moment, which is

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Speaker 1: about whether we should automatically put someone's age after their name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's been practiced in newspapers and in written publications forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for everybody, and it is standard training as a reporter, right.

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Speaker 1: You have to admit or or I will admit to

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Speaker 1: you that it's an instinct for me when I'm reading

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Speaker 1: a story to sort of scan for how old someone is.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it's because it helps

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Speaker 1: situate them for me. But now there's this debate that

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Speaker 1: says that's agist. Why is it that we have to

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Speaker 1: put someone's name and then immediately put their age after

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Speaker 1: their name, because we're trying to redefine what it means

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Speaker 1: to be a certain age, so that if it says

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Speaker 1: Amelia Luster of forty two, forty two today could mean

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Speaker 1: all sorts of different things that it didn't mean twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago. Claire, what do you think about that?

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Speaker 4: It's so interesting because I've spoken to a few psychologists

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Speaker 4: over the years about this very thing, and the thing

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Speaker 4: that they all say, us humans are really good at

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Speaker 4: is putting people in a framework that helps us understand

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Speaker 4: them better, whether that's putting them in a box, whether

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Speaker 4: that's finding patterns. Our brain really likes to contextualize things,

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Speaker 4: and part of that will be someone's age, their ethnicity,

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Speaker 4: it'll be what.

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Speaker 3: Country they're from.

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Speaker 4: Like, we've got all these ways of identifying ourselves so

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Speaker 4: that we can create a vision of who we think

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Speaker 4: this person is. And I had a discussion with my

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Speaker 4: husband about this is not about age, but about sexuality

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Speaker 4: and gender very recently, and there's a character on a

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Speaker 4: TV show and he was saying, Oh, is that a

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Speaker 4: man or is that a woman? And I said, look,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. They seem to be, you know, gender nonconforming.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure either way. And he said, oh, but

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Speaker 4: like do we know, like biologically? And I said to him,

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Speaker 4: why do you need to know, Like why do you

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Speaker 4: need to know whether that is a biological man or

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Speaker 4: a woman?

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Speaker 3: And he said, I don't know. My brain just is

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Speaker 3: telling me I need to know.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's the same with age, where we

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Speaker 4: find these people are appearing on our screens now they

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Speaker 4: seem fairly ageless, or we saw them when they were

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Speaker 4: young and now they still seem to be young, or

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Speaker 4: we see younger women now there's quite a big TikTok

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Speaker 4: movement of like younger women saying how old do you

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Speaker 4: think I am? And the person will go, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: like thirty five, and they're like, I'm twenty four because

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Speaker 4: they look so much older than what they would have done.

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Speaker 4: A few decades ago, so our brains really want to

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Speaker 4: hitch onto something to make us better understand who that

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Speaker 4: person is and if that person's faces had work done.

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Speaker 4: I think for us, we look at what age they are,

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Speaker 4: and then we go, oh, they've got a great plastic surgeon,

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Speaker 4: because they might be sixty three but they look forty two,

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Speaker 4: or you know, vice versa, if they've had bad work done.

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Speaker 4: I think our brains go, Okay, they've got a bad

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Speaker 4: plastic surgeon. But I think this whole idea of trying

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Speaker 4: to become an ageless society where we don't care about

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Speaker 4: how old someone is, I just don't think human brains

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Speaker 4: are wide in a way that allows us to completely

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Speaker 4: let that go. And we'll always be looking for patterns

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Speaker 4: or boxes to put people into try and contextualize them.

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Speaker 2: We're thin slicing people, right, We're going what I need

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Speaker 2: to know about you is broadly like how old you are,

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Speaker 2: what you do for a livah blah blah blah, so

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Speaker 2: that we can work out where to put them. But

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Speaker 2: I would argue that it's not necessarily about how old

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Speaker 2: you look, because I don't think that everybody who has

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Speaker 2: a lot of procedures necessarily look younger, but what they

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Speaker 2: look like is like they are. I think it's becoming

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Speaker 2: code for I am well groomed. I think that when

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Speaker 2: you move over fifty women sort of fall into camps

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Speaker 2: that somehow tell you, in thin slicing how how important

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Speaker 2: it is to them like what they look like, because

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Speaker 2: work can mean everything from can afford to see a

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Speaker 2: facialist and get really good facials once a month too,

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Speaker 2: I had a deep plane face lift, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. And that spectrum is enormous. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things about this show is you're kind of seeing

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Speaker 2: a spectrum there on the TV of all the different

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Speaker 2: ways that women who are in a similar ten year

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Speaker 2: age bracket look. And the argument in Rachel Wells's Peace was, well,

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Speaker 2: that tells you whether or not they could afford it.

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Speaker 2: But the problem with that argument is it suggests that

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Speaker 2: every single woman who can afford to do things to

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Speaker 2: her face to make her a lot younger will do it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not convinced that that's true, are you No?

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Speaker 1: And I also think that another dynamic is changing too.

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Speaker 1: You said that it doesn't necessarily make them look younger,

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Speaker 1: and that was the line on plastic surgery for a

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Speaker 1: long time, it doesn't make women look younger, it makes

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Speaker 1: them look different. I think because of advances in plastic surgery,

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Speaker 1: that is changing. And my evidence for that I've got

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Speaker 1: two celebrities. I want to posit to you that Anne

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Speaker 1: Hathaway looks younger than she looks younger than she used to.

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Speaker 1: And the other example is Chris Jenna, who's one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars facelift. To my eye, she now looks like

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Speaker 1: she has in her forties. She doesn't, she does, Holly.

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Speaker 1: Chris Jenna wants you to talk about it. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's in part because in this new era of surgery,

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Speaker 1: it's not just about radical transparency for the sake of it.

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Speaker 1: It's about wanting people to recognize the effort you put

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Speaker 1: in and the skill that has been applied to your work.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's why people want us to talk

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Speaker 1: about their surgery. Now. I want to be clear here,

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Speaker 1: I'm not advertising or for surgery, but I am saying

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Speaker 1: that the work is getting better. To my untrained eye,

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Speaker 1: I am now finding it more confusing to figure out

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Speaker 1: someone's age.

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Speaker 2: But don't you think that deep plane facelifts from Hollywood

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Speaker 2: plastic surgeons who can make magic aside like it or not.

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Speaker 2: And I, again, it's my conditioning, and I'm aware it's

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Speaker 2: my gen x conditioning, and I often try and program

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Speaker 2: against it. Right, what I see when I meet someone

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Speaker 2: who's my age, I'm fifty three. When I meet someone

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Speaker 2: who's my age, whether or not, she's had a lot

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Speaker 2: of things done to her face. And I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about deep planing facelifts because in my ordinary world, I

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Speaker 2: don't do my knowledge know anyone who's done that. But

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Speaker 2: a great deal of my friends will do injectables, fillers,

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Speaker 2: resurfacing teeth, stuff that is very common. And they're not

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Speaker 2: people who are in the public eye. They're people who

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Speaker 2: are teachers and marketing executives, whatever, like, lots of people

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Speaker 2: do that stuff. What it tells me about you is

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Speaker 2: it tells me about your priorities. In out loud as

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Speaker 2: a while ago, a woman posted a question that said,

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Speaker 2: if you could afford work, would you get it done?

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Speaker 2: And there were a lot of answers. There were like

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Speaker 2: two hundred answers to this question, and I think it

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Speaker 2: was about seventy thirty to the yes. Wow, that's much

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Speaker 2: higher than maybe sixty forty. I didn't do a full

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Speaker 2: I didn't feed it into the robot. Majority said yes.

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Speaker 2: But also to be clear, at work again was that

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Speaker 2: spectrum I was talking about from injectables to facelifts. But

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Speaker 2: a lot of people said, I'd rather spend the money

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Speaker 2: on travel if I had if I had disposable income,

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Speaker 2: I'd rather spend it on travel. Or some people said,

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Speaker 2: if I had the disposable income, I'd get facials and

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Speaker 2: expensive serums and rich lady treatments. But I wouldn't go

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Speaker 2: under the knife. So it tells you a lot about

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Speaker 2: I kind of sometimes read people's faces, rightly or wrongly,

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Speaker 2: about these are the decisions you've made, Like you've decided,

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Speaker 2: you know that three hundred dollars that it might cost

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Speaker 2: me four injectables is worth putting there. And it's becoming

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Speaker 2: almost code for we used to say well kept or

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Speaker 2: well preserved, well maintained maintenance. It's it's about maintenance. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of become codified for all kinds of things. It's

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Speaker 2: really interesting because back to whether or not you can

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Speaker 2: discuss it. Of course she can discuss.

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Speaker 1: Chris Jenna wants you to discuss.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what I was going to say, she's

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Speaker 2: a really interesting example because she's in this era of

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Speaker 2: new disclosure very much where she's like, here's the number

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Speaker 2: for my surgeon, good luck, you know, trying to get

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Speaker 2: in the Kardashians in general, who are very influential in

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Speaker 2: beauty standards, as we know, have become after being you know,

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Speaker 2: a long time of Saya Kylie being oh, no, I've

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Speaker 2: done nothing. I don't know what you mean. I just

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Speaker 2: got good at contouring. In twenty twenty five is really

401
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Speaker 2: open about saying no, I did this and this, and

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Speaker 2: I had this many meals in my lips, and I

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Speaker 2: did this and blah blah blah. So the age of

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Speaker 2: disclosure is real. But the question of whether it's okay

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Speaker 2: that I'm sitting there looking at these all these interesting

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Speaker 2: women of different ages and demographics and ethnicities on this

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Speaker 2: show and I'm thinking about how much effort they've put

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Speaker 2: into aging. If that's okay or not, I think still

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Speaker 2: depends on whether or not you're critiquing the actual woman.

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Speaker 2: Like I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting here or on social

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Speaker 2: media or anywhere going Betty looks like she's gone too far.

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Speaker 2: Sally looks like she doesn't give a shit, you know,

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Speaker 2: like it's still I think to the individual, woman feels

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Speaker 2: like about a cudgel.

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Speaker 1: You can critique my deep plant facelift all you want.

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Speaker 1: I think the surgeon did remarkable work. So holy.

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Speaker 4: The beauty of working at Mamma Mia is that we

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Speaker 4: are surrounded by generations, different generations of women, and so

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Speaker 4: we're sitting here talking about the Golden Bachelor through a

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Speaker 4: lens of us growing up in a time where we

421
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Speaker 4: were taught to judge women very harshly on a range

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Speaker 4: of things, aging being one of them. So we thought

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Speaker 4: we'd ask the women at Mamma Mia how they're feeling

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Speaker 4: about watching the Golden Bachelor and about seeing this group

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Speaker 4: of older women put themselves forward like this.

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Speaker 3: And this is what they had to say.

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Speaker 6: I mean, firstly, he's pretty good looking, but I think

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Speaker 6: it just gives us like a little bit of hope.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I seem in future and it's bright

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 6: I just think it's like wholesome and yeah, I just

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Speaker 6: want to say if men ever changed.

433
00:20:57,061 --> 00:21:01,022
Speaker 8: Okay, So my mum is divorced now and she's the

434
00:21:01,061 --> 00:21:03,622
Speaker 8: most beautiful person in the whole world. And so watching

435
00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:07,941
Speaker 8: women of her age demographic fine love is just so

436
00:21:08,022 --> 00:21:09,942
Speaker 8: beautiful and wholesome, and it gives me home for her.

437
00:21:10,381 --> 00:21:12,862
Speaker 7: It feels a lot more genuine For some reason, when

438
00:21:12,861 --> 00:21:14,941
Speaker 7: the person is over sixty, I just instantly believe that

439
00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:17,061
Speaker 7: they are actually in it for love and not fame

440
00:21:17,141 --> 00:21:19,662
Speaker 7: or Instagram followers. I think that makes for a much

441
00:21:19,661 --> 00:21:21,542
Speaker 7: more heartfelt, engaging show.

442
00:21:21,742 --> 00:21:26,421
Speaker 4: I just think there personifies that manly, gentlemanly energy that

443
00:21:26,502 --> 00:21:28,581
Speaker 4: we don't see as much from men our age, So

444
00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:30,101
Speaker 4: it's quite refreshing to watch.

445
00:21:30,782 --> 00:21:30,982
Speaker 1: Now.

446
00:21:31,022 --> 00:21:33,662
Speaker 2: I feel like a terrible human because not even one

447
00:21:33,702 --> 00:21:36,461
Speaker 2: of those women mentioned what those women look like.

448
00:21:36,581 --> 00:21:39,502
Speaker 1: But isn't it interesting that the words like wholesome come

449
00:21:39,581 --> 00:21:40,101
Speaker 1: up a lot?

450
00:21:40,821 --> 00:21:42,901
Speaker 2: I asked am Vernam Amelia, and I said, what do

451
00:21:42,942 --> 00:21:44,941
Speaker 2: you think about the Golden Bachelor? And she said, all

452
00:21:44,942 --> 00:21:47,941
Speaker 2: those women look cute, which is the word I hate

453
00:21:47,942 --> 00:21:51,461
Speaker 2: the most for describing grown up, wise people have lived alife.

454
00:21:51,742 --> 00:21:53,542
Speaker 2: They look cute, and I want to have a cup

455
00:21:53,581 --> 00:21:55,982
Speaker 2: of tea with them. And I'm like, oh, I am

456
00:21:56,141 --> 00:22:00,462
Speaker 2: entirely looking at this through my own insecurities.

457
00:22:00,742 --> 00:22:02,701
Speaker 1: Well we all are. I mean, I think another thing

458
00:22:02,742 --> 00:22:05,542
Speaker 1: that comes up through those vox pops is the idea

459
00:22:05,581 --> 00:22:09,502
Speaker 1: that young people are looking for love, perhaps often more

460
00:22:09,621 --> 00:22:12,421
Speaker 1: than older people, and they're looking at it through the

461
00:22:12,502 --> 00:22:15,022
Speaker 1: lens of will I find love? How do I find love?

462
00:22:15,101 --> 00:22:16,941
Speaker 1: You're looking at it through the lens of what should

463
00:22:16,942 --> 00:22:20,462
Speaker 1: my face look like? We're all bringing our own insecurities

464
00:22:20,462 --> 00:22:21,022
Speaker 1: to the table.

465
00:22:21,262 --> 00:22:24,022
Speaker 2: Terrible, But I want to be clear that having watched

466
00:22:24,022 --> 00:22:26,101
Speaker 2: the show, like as well as those women all looking

467
00:22:26,222 --> 00:22:28,702
Speaker 2: very different, as I've said many times, they're every bit

468
00:22:28,782 --> 00:22:30,941
Speaker 2: is varied, as the women on dating shows always are.

469
00:22:30,942 --> 00:22:33,581
Speaker 2: There's like a villain, you can see her already. There's

470
00:22:33,621 --> 00:22:36,101
Speaker 2: somebody who never gets picked and wants to get picked,

471
00:22:36,182 --> 00:22:39,621
Speaker 2: like all of the usual suspects are there, just in

472
00:22:39,661 --> 00:22:41,901
Speaker 2: a grown up form, which is great because that's one

473
00:22:41,942 --> 00:22:44,262
Speaker 2: of the things I always want to shove home, is

474
00:22:44,302 --> 00:22:48,261
Speaker 2: that not every woman who has reached a grown up

475
00:22:48,302 --> 00:22:51,181
Speaker 2: ages I like to call it, is completely sane and

476
00:22:51,222 --> 00:22:53,621
Speaker 2: wise and lovely and never has too many champagnes and

477
00:22:53,661 --> 00:22:56,621
Speaker 2: never says the wrong thing, Like where every bit is messy,

478
00:22:56,702 --> 00:22:57,861
Speaker 2: really is the younger ones.

479
00:22:57,982 --> 00:22:59,502
Speaker 4: To be fair, I was just looking at I'm thinking,

480
00:22:59,542 --> 00:23:01,782
Speaker 4: how can they still get around in heels at that age?

481
00:23:01,821 --> 00:23:03,942
Speaker 4: Like I haven't worn a heel in like ten years now.

482
00:23:04,022 --> 00:23:05,742
Speaker 4: I don't understand. It's so good on you for having

483
00:23:05,782 --> 00:23:13,262
Speaker 4: like good Achilles, well done. Are you experiencing an October slump? Well,

484
00:23:13,302 --> 00:23:20,421
Speaker 4: we'll find out what you can do about it. So friends,

485
00:23:20,422 --> 00:23:22,941
Speaker 4: despite the warmer weather approaching and the promise of some

486
00:23:23,061 --> 00:23:25,542
Speaker 4: long summer days and end of year festivities ahead, we

487
00:23:25,621 --> 00:23:29,061
Speaker 4: here in Australia are currently experiencing a phenomenon known as

488
00:23:29,061 --> 00:23:30,101
Speaker 4: the October slump.

489
00:23:30,182 --> 00:23:31,502
Speaker 3: Now the TLDR on.

490
00:23:31,502 --> 00:23:35,142
Speaker 4: The October slump, also sometimes referred to as the October slide,

491
00:23:35,422 --> 00:23:37,461
Speaker 4: is that we're in a position on the calendar with

492
00:23:37,502 --> 00:23:40,022
Speaker 4: the end of year looking very much inside, but like

493
00:23:40,262 --> 00:23:43,101
Speaker 4: the crush of work and tasks and home related things

494
00:23:43,101 --> 00:23:46,262
Speaker 4: that need to be completed by December, and the ramping

495
00:23:46,302 --> 00:23:50,982
Speaker 4: up of activities, maybe like your work functions, kids things,

496
00:23:51,101 --> 00:23:54,462
Speaker 4: partners functions, it can sometimes feel like you're clawing your

497
00:23:54,502 --> 00:23:56,662
Speaker 4: way to the finish line, you know, like your all

498
00:23:56,742 --> 00:23:58,902
Speaker 4: raggedy fingernails hanging on to the edge of your sanity.

499
00:23:59,222 --> 00:24:00,901
Speaker 4: And if you do want to delve into this little

500
00:24:00,901 --> 00:24:03,701
Speaker 4: bit more, the Quickies Done excellent episode about this is

501
00:24:03,742 --> 00:24:05,581
Speaker 4: also an article that we can link in our show

502
00:24:05,581 --> 00:24:08,542
Speaker 4: notes that our mate Analyst Todd wrote about it as well,

503
00:24:08,742 --> 00:24:10,942
Speaker 4: and so that's where we've find ourselves in October, although

504
00:24:10,982 --> 00:24:13,581
Speaker 4: for me it is slightly different because it's my birthday month,

505
00:24:13,702 --> 00:24:17,821
Speaker 4: so it is a month of celebration. However, I am

506
00:24:17,861 --> 00:24:19,941
Speaker 4: maybe pretty sure that this might be where I am

507
00:24:19,942 --> 00:24:23,941
Speaker 4: at despite my birthday celebrations coming, because I have also,

508
00:24:24,101 --> 00:24:25,702
Speaker 4: on top of all of this, added a house move

509
00:24:25,702 --> 00:24:27,581
Speaker 4: into the mix, that we all know is one of

510
00:24:27,621 --> 00:24:29,341
Speaker 4: the most stressful things you can do in your life.

511
00:24:29,821 --> 00:24:32,302
Speaker 4: And so I just want to know from you too quickly,

512
00:24:32,542 --> 00:24:35,941
Speaker 4: because I do have some solutions or potential solutions to

513
00:24:35,982 --> 00:24:38,462
Speaker 4: this October slump experience, but I want to know how

514
00:24:38,462 --> 00:24:40,502
Speaker 4: the both of you are feeling at this point in

515
00:24:40,581 --> 00:24:43,861
Speaker 4: the year. Amelia, are you experiencing an the October slump

516
00:24:43,901 --> 00:24:44,581
Speaker 4: that you're aware of.

517
00:24:44,901 --> 00:24:47,982
Speaker 1: I've been feeling a lot of ambient anxiety, not least

518
00:24:47,982 --> 00:24:50,542
Speaker 1: because socially, I feel like we've already gotten to the

519
00:24:50,542 --> 00:24:52,742
Speaker 1: point where it's like, are we going to see each

520
00:24:52,821 --> 00:24:54,061
Speaker 1: other before Christmas?

521
00:24:54,022 --> 00:24:56,742
Speaker 2: And I guess earlier all the time.

522
00:24:57,101 --> 00:24:59,141
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like a friendship test. I just

523
00:24:59,182 --> 00:25:03,061
Speaker 1: want to say, though, why is moving house truly stressful

524
00:25:03,101 --> 00:25:06,022
Speaker 1: because I remember when I was just starting out in

525
00:25:06,061 --> 00:25:08,821
Speaker 1: the world as a young adult and I needed to

526
00:25:08,821 --> 00:25:11,222
Speaker 1: pack up my belonging move and people told me that

527
00:25:11,341 --> 00:25:13,502
Speaker 1: old adage that moving house is one of the three

528
00:25:13,542 --> 00:25:16,502
Speaker 1: most stressful things that can happen to you. The other

529
00:25:16,581 --> 00:25:20,422
Speaker 1: two are death and divorce. I think I get death

530
00:25:20,462 --> 00:25:23,421
Speaker 1: and divorce, But like every time I move house, I

531
00:25:23,462 --> 00:25:27,142
Speaker 1: am surprised by how gobsmackingly awful it is, and it's

532
00:25:27,182 --> 00:25:28,581
Speaker 1: like I never learn the lesson.

533
00:25:28,861 --> 00:25:31,862
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is something truly heinous about leaving a property

534
00:25:31,901 --> 00:25:34,141
Speaker 4: and having to take every single item that you own

535
00:25:34,742 --> 00:25:36,821
Speaker 4: put it into a box, only to take it out

536
00:25:36,821 --> 00:25:38,782
Speaker 4: of the same box at the other end and put

537
00:25:38,782 --> 00:25:39,742
Speaker 4: it in a new location.

538
00:25:40,262 --> 00:25:41,902
Speaker 3: It's so dumb, Like I.

539
00:25:41,861 --> 00:25:44,061
Speaker 4: Wish I could just like light a match and walk

540
00:25:44,101 --> 00:25:46,421
Speaker 4: away and start over because it's so much hassle.

541
00:25:46,581 --> 00:25:48,341
Speaker 3: But yeah, god, it is truly the worst.

542
00:25:48,661 --> 00:25:50,782
Speaker 2: I want to move house three times in one year,

543
00:25:51,581 --> 00:25:54,461
Speaker 2: and every time. This is where having a bit of

544
00:25:54,462 --> 00:25:57,581
Speaker 2: a goldfish memory helps, right, is that every time I'd

545
00:25:57,621 --> 00:26:00,581
Speaker 2: be like, no big deal, no big deal, no big deal.

546
00:26:00,901 --> 00:26:02,061
Speaker 2: Every time it was a big deal.

547
00:26:02,182 --> 00:26:04,462
Speaker 1: I think our brains tell us that to protect us,

548
00:26:04,542 --> 00:26:07,662
Speaker 1: because if we remembered how bad it was. We wouldn't

549
00:26:07,661 --> 00:26:10,341
Speaker 1: have a property market. Everyone would just be living in

550
00:26:10,422 --> 00:26:12,222
Speaker 1: the same place that they grew.

551
00:26:12,061 --> 00:26:15,501
Speaker 2: Up in whatever anyway, but I derailed us.

552
00:26:15,581 --> 00:26:17,901
Speaker 1: Yes, I am feeling it, and I thought it was

553
00:26:17,982 --> 00:26:21,861
Speaker 1: mostly because of this social anxiety about making sure that

554
00:26:21,942 --> 00:26:24,661
Speaker 1: I somehow see everyone like I'm the pope or something.

555
00:26:26,061 --> 00:26:28,741
Speaker 1: I don't know, But Holly, do you feel that I do?

556
00:26:28,821 --> 00:26:31,222
Speaker 2: But I'm fighting it. So one of my least favorite

557
00:26:31,222 --> 00:26:33,782
Speaker 2: things in the world. And this irritates some of my friends.

558
00:26:34,661 --> 00:26:37,421
Speaker 2: I hate feeling like time is rushing past me, so

559
00:26:37,502 --> 00:26:39,661
Speaker 2: I will often refuse to make plans too far in

560
00:26:39,702 --> 00:26:40,821
Speaker 2: advance because.

561
00:26:40,581 --> 00:26:41,782
Speaker 1: You're so enigmatic.

562
00:26:42,022 --> 00:26:45,022
Speaker 2: I'm not. It's just that my nicole friends. So my

563
00:26:45,061 --> 00:26:47,821
Speaker 2: friend Penny, for example, who's the chief Nicole in my life,

564
00:26:48,061 --> 00:26:51,581
Speaker 2: she is already saying to me, next year, are we

565
00:26:51,661 --> 00:26:54,101
Speaker 2: going away in April? Can I book this day in

566
00:26:54,262 --> 00:26:56,502
Speaker 2: what about we're doing in the Winter's possible?

567
00:26:56,661 --> 00:26:58,142
Speaker 1: And fanning ahead?

568
00:26:58,302 --> 00:27:01,422
Speaker 2: And I'm like, do not live my life like will

569
00:27:01,502 --> 00:27:02,422
Speaker 2: leaving her on red?

570
00:27:02,621 --> 00:27:04,542
Speaker 1: Is that what you're doing? Like you're just like not

571
00:27:04,702 --> 00:27:06,262
Speaker 1: responding leave her on red?

572
00:27:06,262 --> 00:27:09,901
Speaker 2: But I literally say to her, I'm like, I don't

573
00:27:09,901 --> 00:27:11,941
Speaker 2: want to wish my life away, like if I'm thinking

574
00:27:11,982 --> 00:27:13,101
Speaker 2: about next so I.

575
00:27:12,982 --> 00:27:16,061
Speaker 4: Hate Oh my god, Holy stop disrespecting the fact that

576
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:17,381
Speaker 4: you have a Nicole.

577
00:27:17,502 --> 00:27:20,742
Speaker 3: Not everyone has one. They are like gold my friend.

578
00:27:20,901 --> 00:27:23,741
Speaker 2: I love my Nicole and she is amazing, but it

579
00:27:23,942 --> 00:27:27,981
Speaker 2: makes me deeply stressy to be planning Christmas in September.

580
00:27:28,101 --> 00:27:30,302
Speaker 1: Clai, You're a Nicole, right, I'm getting that vibe.

581
00:27:30,302 --> 00:27:33,421
Speaker 3: I am not in Nicole, I am not even close.

582
00:27:33,502 --> 00:27:36,222
Speaker 4: But I have some of the best Nicoles in my

583
00:27:36,422 --> 00:27:38,542
Speaker 4: I am going away next week to the Gold Coast

584
00:27:38,982 --> 00:27:42,582
Speaker 4: with my very favoritist Nicole, who's organized every damn thing

585
00:27:42,621 --> 00:27:44,661
Speaker 4: for me, given me the dates, and even organized my

586
00:27:44,661 --> 00:27:47,142
Speaker 4: birthday dinner for me on Friday night, like amazing.

587
00:27:47,341 --> 00:27:50,542
Speaker 2: But my point about this is that you don't have

588
00:27:50,621 --> 00:27:52,861
Speaker 2: to buy into the panic that it's nearly the end

589
00:27:52,861 --> 00:27:55,181
Speaker 2: of the year, because it actually isn't nearly the end

590
00:27:55,222 --> 00:27:57,742
Speaker 2: of the year. There are still two I can't count.

591
00:27:58,022 --> 00:27:59,982
Speaker 2: There are still two months and two weeks or something

592
00:27:59,982 --> 00:28:01,422
Speaker 2: to go to the end of the year. That's ages.

593
00:28:01,581 --> 00:28:03,542
Speaker 2: Like if you thought about two months in another.

594
00:28:03,302 --> 00:28:07,142
Speaker 1: Cama formadical skills in the context of twelve months, it's

595
00:28:07,222 --> 00:28:08,221
Speaker 1: nothing and I'm not.

596
00:28:08,302 --> 00:28:10,701
Speaker 2: But like if you if you would go now, I

597
00:28:10,702 --> 00:28:12,742
Speaker 2: mean that said she's fancy, she can do math. It's

598
00:28:12,742 --> 00:28:16,262
Speaker 2: all I mean, Amelia. Is that? All I mean is

599
00:28:16,262 --> 00:28:18,142
Speaker 2: that if you thought about two months in another way,

600
00:28:18,262 --> 00:28:20,982
Speaker 2: like if you were going on holiday for two months,

601
00:28:21,022 --> 00:28:23,302
Speaker 2: that would seem like a really long time. Do you

602
00:28:23,381 --> 00:28:25,502
Speaker 2: know what I mean? You can play mind games on

603
00:28:25,542 --> 00:28:27,702
Speaker 2: yourself for instead of going, oh my god, it's only

604
00:28:27,702 --> 00:28:30,101
Speaker 2: two months till Christmas, you could be like, imagine if

605
00:28:30,141 --> 00:28:31,741
Speaker 2: I was going to Europe for two months, I'd be like,

606
00:28:31,782 --> 00:28:34,141
Speaker 2: that is the longest holiday of all time. So what

607
00:28:34,182 --> 00:28:37,502
Speaker 2: I'm saying is don't let yourself slide. That is true.

608
00:28:37,821 --> 00:28:39,942
Speaker 4: But what if you have a conversation with a friend

609
00:28:40,182 --> 00:28:41,941
Speaker 4: who says, like I caught up with a friend not

610
00:28:41,982 --> 00:28:43,542
Speaker 4: long ago and I said, I was just on the

611
00:28:43,542 --> 00:28:45,262
Speaker 4: phone and I said, should we catch up? And she goes,

612
00:28:45,582 --> 00:28:48,542
Speaker 4: I don't have a free weekend now until December something

613
00:28:48,661 --> 00:28:49,742
Speaker 4: or other, And.

614
00:28:49,702 --> 00:28:50,942
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, okay.

615
00:28:51,302 --> 00:28:52,661
Speaker 4: And the same has happened to a lot of my

616
00:28:52,661 --> 00:28:56,182
Speaker 4: other friends, Like they are fully solidly booked every weekend

617
00:28:56,262 --> 00:28:58,941
Speaker 4: until the end of the year, Like it's done, the

618
00:28:58,982 --> 00:29:02,302
Speaker 4: calendar is full, the appointments are set like there is

619
00:29:02,422 --> 00:29:04,262
Speaker 4: not a lot of wiggle room towards this part of

620
00:29:04,262 --> 00:29:04,582
Speaker 4: the year.

621
00:29:04,702 --> 00:29:06,902
Speaker 2: But my point is is that, and this is something

622
00:29:06,942 --> 00:29:09,782
Speaker 2: I'm working on right. I don't believe you have to

623
00:29:09,862 --> 00:29:13,302
Speaker 2: always buy into everybody else's panic. So if it's really

624
00:29:13,342 --> 00:29:15,902
Speaker 2: stressing you out to think it's ten weeks till Christmas

625
00:29:16,062 --> 00:29:17,902
Speaker 2: and oh my god, the year is almost over. And

626
00:29:17,942 --> 00:29:20,222
Speaker 2: I said that this year I was gonna X y

627
00:29:20,382 --> 00:29:22,262
Speaker 2: Z and I haven't done it, so I'm a failure

628
00:29:22,302 --> 00:29:24,982
Speaker 2: and oh my god, it's like, actually no, there's still

629
00:29:25,661 --> 00:29:28,701
Speaker 2: however many weeks left and we've established I don't know,

630
00:29:30,142 --> 00:29:32,902
Speaker 2: and I feel like sometimes we just need to like

631
00:29:32,982 --> 00:29:34,782
Speaker 2: breathe in and go all right. It's not like I

632
00:29:34,822 --> 00:29:35,982
Speaker 2: have to throw the baby out with the by thought

633
00:29:36,102 --> 00:29:39,661
Speaker 2: which brings me to a substack that we were talking

634
00:29:39,702 --> 00:29:42,382
Speaker 2: about today. That's like what to do if you feel

635
00:29:42,382 --> 00:29:44,342
Speaker 2: like life is passing you by, because I feel like

636
00:29:44,422 --> 00:29:46,342
Speaker 2: that is kind of what this end of your panic

637
00:29:46,382 --> 00:29:48,142
Speaker 2: is about. It's like, oh my god, it's all just

638
00:29:48,182 --> 00:29:50,862
Speaker 2: happening again, and I reckon, you can grab onto the reins.

639
00:29:50,942 --> 00:29:53,142
Speaker 2: Was there anything in that that spoke to you?

640
00:29:53,422 --> 00:29:56,181
Speaker 4: There is so this substack was written by Alex Mothers.

641
00:29:56,182 --> 00:29:58,582
Speaker 4: He's a productivity expert, and you're right. The title is

642
00:29:58,582 --> 00:30:00,582
Speaker 4: ten things to do Today If you feel life is

643
00:30:00,661 --> 00:30:01,662
Speaker 4: passing you by.

644
00:30:01,782 --> 00:30:04,981
Speaker 1: Can you imagine having a productivity expert in your life?

645
00:30:05,022 --> 00:30:10,382
Speaker 2: Side note Nicole le Yes, Oh my god, they should

646
00:30:10,382 --> 00:30:11,461
Speaker 2: have Nicole in their job time.

647
00:30:11,502 --> 00:30:12,862
Speaker 4: All right, I'm not going to go through the whole ten,

648
00:30:12,902 --> 00:30:14,382
Speaker 4: but here are some highlights if you want to pull

649
00:30:14,422 --> 00:30:17,421
Speaker 4: your brain out of October slump mode and stop getting

650
00:30:17,422 --> 00:30:19,782
Speaker 4: caught up in the panic. As Holly says, so first

651
00:30:19,822 --> 00:30:22,102
Speaker 4: of all, we're going to start small. Make a commitment

652
00:30:22,142 --> 00:30:25,462
Speaker 4: to creating one new habit in a key life area.

653
00:30:25,542 --> 00:30:25,982
Speaker 3: Pick one.

654
00:30:26,062 --> 00:30:29,221
Speaker 4: It can be anything, health, money, relationships, adventure, whatever you like.

655
00:30:29,582 --> 00:30:31,342
Speaker 4: Focus in on one thing you can change or give

656
00:30:31,342 --> 00:30:34,181
Speaker 4: you an example. This time last year, when I was

657
00:30:34,222 --> 00:30:37,782
Speaker 4: experiencing the October slump, I decided to do fifty squats

658
00:30:37,822 --> 00:30:39,422
Speaker 4: every day while I brush my teeth.

659
00:30:39,182 --> 00:30:41,342
Speaker 2: In the morning. Oh my good, well done.

660
00:30:41,862 --> 00:30:42,022
Speaker 1: Now.

661
00:30:42,022 --> 00:30:44,902
Speaker 4: I made that decision because I was very aware by

662
00:30:44,942 --> 00:30:47,302
Speaker 4: them that I'm in perimenopause and I'm worried my bones

663
00:30:47,342 --> 00:30:49,102
Speaker 4: they are about to turn to dust and my muscles

664
00:30:49,102 --> 00:30:50,462
Speaker 4: are going to waste away until I'll be one of

665
00:30:50,462 --> 00:30:52,421
Speaker 4: those elderly ladies who get stuck on the toilet and

666
00:30:52,462 --> 00:30:53,982
Speaker 4: has to call someone to come and get them up.

667
00:30:54,462 --> 00:30:57,421
Speaker 2: So you're going to say, I'm well aware that I'm

668
00:30:57,542 --> 00:30:59,902
Speaker 2: chasing a fat ass.

669
00:31:01,022 --> 00:31:01,902
Speaker 1: Row but.

670
00:31:04,022 --> 00:31:07,182
Speaker 2: Because that's why the Kardashians talk about squats a lot, web.

671
00:31:06,982 --> 00:31:11,382
Speaker 4: Sorry, I mean, I am also trying to my Kardashian curves.

672
00:31:11,022 --> 00:31:14,221
Speaker 3: But unfortunately I don't feel like at this stage that

673
00:31:14,342 --> 00:31:15,662
Speaker 3: is possible without a BBL.

674
00:31:16,102 --> 00:31:18,702
Speaker 4: But I twelve months on from that point, I am

675
00:31:18,782 --> 00:31:22,221
Speaker 4: still doing my fifty squats, and they get easier and easier,

676
00:31:22,222 --> 00:31:24,062
Speaker 4: and now it's become a habit that I've come to

677
00:31:24,622 --> 00:31:27,461
Speaker 4: almost weirdly enjoy. I do not enjoy exercise, not in

678
00:31:27,462 --> 00:31:29,142
Speaker 4: any way, shape or form. I have to sneak it

679
00:31:29,142 --> 00:31:31,622
Speaker 4: in where I can, but this has become habit now.

680
00:31:31,622 --> 00:31:33,982
Speaker 4: So as soon as I've put the toothpaste on the toothbrush,

681
00:31:34,022 --> 00:31:36,461
Speaker 4: my brain's all right, squat time and I'm doing it.

682
00:31:36,462 --> 00:31:36,902
Speaker 1: I love that.

683
00:31:37,222 --> 00:31:37,702
Speaker 3: Number Two.

684
00:31:38,222 --> 00:31:40,982
Speaker 4: You can connect with someone you've been avoiding. I mean,

685
00:31:41,062 --> 00:31:43,981
Speaker 4: like a friend, family member, colleague. You're not avoiding them

686
00:31:43,982 --> 00:31:47,542
Speaker 4: because you don't like them, it's just because you haven't right,

687
00:31:47,622 --> 00:31:49,582
Speaker 4: So you haven't made the time, and then all of

688
00:31:49,582 --> 00:31:51,941
Speaker 4: a sudden time has passed, and now you're wondering if

689
00:31:51,982 --> 00:31:54,221
Speaker 4: you should or shouldn't reach out because you don't know

690
00:31:54,502 --> 00:31:55,181
Speaker 4: how they'll feel.

691
00:31:55,302 --> 00:31:58,102
Speaker 1: This was my favorite of the tips. It really spoke

692
00:31:58,182 --> 00:32:00,742
Speaker 1: to me, and it reminded me of some excellent advice

693
00:32:00,822 --> 00:32:03,862
Speaker 1: I got recently. I have a friend who let's say,

694
00:32:04,062 --> 00:32:07,062
Speaker 1: my friend is in politics. My friend is not Kevin.

695
00:32:06,902 --> 00:32:10,622
Speaker 3: Right, it's Alboux right, it's out.

696
00:32:11,022 --> 00:32:14,542
Speaker 1: Yeah, friend is in American politics, and he gave me

697
00:32:14,582 --> 00:32:17,222
Speaker 1: some advice. He's really good because he's in politics at

698
00:32:17,262 --> 00:32:20,221
Speaker 1: making sure everyone in his life feels like they are

699
00:32:20,262 --> 00:32:23,181
Speaker 1: seen by him and like he's caring about them. And

700
00:32:23,222 --> 00:32:25,342
Speaker 1: he told me that his advice is when you are

701
00:32:25,382 --> 00:32:27,221
Speaker 1: reaching out to someone that you haven't spoken to in

702
00:32:27,262 --> 00:32:29,421
Speaker 1: a while, it can be really scary for you, and

703
00:32:29,462 --> 00:32:31,622
Speaker 1: it can also be quite intimidating for the person you're

704
00:32:31,661 --> 00:32:34,342
Speaker 1: reaching out to because they start getting worried. If you

705
00:32:34,502 --> 00:32:36,461
Speaker 1: send them a text and say can we talk tomorrow,

706
00:32:36,542 --> 00:32:39,221
Speaker 1: They're like, oh my god, what's happened? Is there something wrong?

707
00:32:39,742 --> 00:32:41,582
Speaker 1: So he said to kind of just break the ice

708
00:32:41,622 --> 00:32:44,222
Speaker 1: between the two of you, you should just text someone

709
00:32:44,262 --> 00:32:46,822
Speaker 1: and say hey, can I get your advice on something tomorrow?

710
00:32:46,862 --> 00:32:47,902
Speaker 1: Can I call you at ten?

711
00:32:48,222 --> 00:32:49,222
Speaker 3: That's coolness?

712
00:32:49,582 --> 00:32:51,941
Speaker 1: And he says it doesn't matter. You don't actually need

713
00:32:51,982 --> 00:32:54,142
Speaker 1: advice on anything. And so I tried this out. I

714
00:32:54,182 --> 00:32:56,221
Speaker 1: texted someone who I've been meaning to text for a

715
00:32:56,222 --> 00:32:58,021
Speaker 1: long time, and I said, can I get your advice

716
00:32:58,062 --> 00:33:01,302
Speaker 1: on something? They write back immediately because they feel flattered

717
00:33:01,422 --> 00:33:04,142
Speaker 1: that they're not worried. They're like, yeah, they feeling important too,

718
00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:07,701
Speaker 1: really important and valued. And I called my friend who

719
00:33:07,742 --> 00:33:09,462
Speaker 1: I hadn't spoken to in a while. I just made

720
00:33:09,422 --> 00:33:11,582
Speaker 1: it up something that I needed advice on. Guess what

721
00:33:11,902 --> 00:33:14,622
Speaker 1: she gave me great advice. So I also got some

722
00:33:14,702 --> 00:33:17,022
Speaker 1: advice there I didn't even know I needed, and I've

723
00:33:17,062 --> 00:33:18,782
Speaker 1: just found it really helpful, amazing.

724
00:33:18,782 --> 00:33:20,502
Speaker 3: All right, well here's the message to you right now.

725
00:33:20,502 --> 00:33:23,261
Speaker 4: If you are listening to this and you're feeling October slumpy,

726
00:33:23,342 --> 00:33:25,582
Speaker 4: just hit pause on this. Don't leave us. You'll come

727
00:33:25,582 --> 00:33:28,462
Speaker 4: back to this podcast in a second. But hit pause, immediately,

728
00:33:28,502 --> 00:33:32,382
Speaker 4: get your phone. Text that person right now, Okay, right

729
00:33:32,462 --> 00:33:34,782
Speaker 4: this very second, exactly what Amelia told you.

730
00:33:34,862 --> 00:33:36,422
Speaker 3: Can I get some advice from you tomorrow?

731
00:33:36,742 --> 00:33:38,661
Speaker 4: It's a weight off, and you aren't thinking about that person,

732
00:33:38,702 --> 00:33:40,062
Speaker 4: whether they're mad at you or not, and you have

733
00:33:40,102 --> 00:33:41,022
Speaker 4: a clear conscience.

734
00:33:41,342 --> 00:33:43,142
Speaker 2: This is all very good advice, but you're just giving

735
00:33:43,182 --> 00:33:44,502
Speaker 2: me a lot more things to do. And there's a

736
00:33:44,502 --> 00:33:46,822
Speaker 2: different energy that needs to be embraced here. Friends, it's

737
00:33:46,822 --> 00:33:49,701
Speaker 2: the energy of nap. It is okay to do things

738
00:33:49,742 --> 00:33:53,502
Speaker 2: differently this year. Start now. You can't do it in December.

739
00:33:53,822 --> 00:33:56,582
Speaker 2: Is that when people start asking you everything. Just channel me,

740
00:33:56,982 --> 00:33:57,661
Speaker 2: Just channel.

741
00:33:57,462 --> 00:33:59,062
Speaker 1: Me the final quarter up.

742
00:33:59,142 --> 00:34:03,342
Speaker 2: I love it enough this year. I'm not going to xyz.

743
00:34:03,862 --> 00:34:05,702
Speaker 2: Turn to your partner if you have one. Why don't

744
00:34:05,702 --> 00:34:08,102
Speaker 2: you organize the presence for the teachers, give them lots

745
00:34:08,102 --> 00:34:08,662
Speaker 2: of warning.

746
00:34:08,982 --> 00:34:11,142
Speaker 3: Oh well that's a tough one to hand over.

747
00:34:11,222 --> 00:34:13,622
Speaker 2: But okay, whatever it is that always stresses you out

748
00:34:13,622 --> 00:34:16,462
Speaker 2: at this timeom ticklick. As we go into this massive rush,

749
00:34:16,502 --> 00:34:20,102
Speaker 2: it gets too late. Final quarter up energy, friends, don't

750
00:34:20,142 --> 00:34:23,982
Speaker 2: let yourself be overwhelmed. Hold onto the reins, be strong. No,

751
00:34:24,302 --> 00:34:26,062
Speaker 2: not going to do that. Maybe you could do that.

752
00:34:26,382 --> 00:34:28,181
Speaker 2: It's not too late, friends.

753
00:34:28,022 --> 00:34:31,102
Speaker 4: It's not too late, So go and just shake off

754
00:34:31,102 --> 00:34:34,582
Speaker 4: the slump. Have a bit of a less panicked October.

755
00:34:35,422 --> 00:34:38,542
Speaker 1: After the break, the topic that Holly and I begged,

756
00:34:38,902 --> 00:34:40,862
Speaker 1: begged our producers to talk about today.

757
00:34:42,022 --> 00:34:45,782
Speaker 2: Want unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

758
00:34:45,822 --> 00:34:49,901
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

759
00:34:49,902 --> 00:34:51,661
Speaker 2: of the show notes to get us in your ears

760
00:34:51,902 --> 00:34:54,661
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

761
00:34:54,822 --> 00:34:56,461
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

762
00:35:03,862 --> 00:35:09,861
Speaker 1: Some people enjoy bird watching, some people like Trainspotting, Hollywayne right,

763
00:35:09,902 --> 00:35:14,701
Speaker 1: and I like tracking Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin's child Apple. Oh.

764
00:35:14,741 --> 00:35:18,102
Speaker 4: I'm shocked that Holly Wainwright is doing something connected with

765
00:35:18,142 --> 00:35:18,982
Speaker 4: Gwyneth Paltrow.

766
00:35:19,022 --> 00:35:21,182
Speaker 1: This must be something new for her. But the thing

767
00:35:21,462 --> 00:35:26,221
Speaker 1: is that their daughter Apple is suddenly everywhere. It's uncanny.

768
00:35:26,422 --> 00:35:29,381
Speaker 1: So let me explain that the various places she's been

769
00:35:29,382 --> 00:35:33,582
Speaker 1: popping out recently. First of all, a band named Jade Street,

770
00:35:33,661 --> 00:35:36,221
Speaker 1: which is an la indie rock duo, is releasing its

771
00:35:36,261 --> 00:35:38,701
Speaker 1: third single next week. Now that wouldn't otherwise be something

772
00:35:39,661 --> 00:35:43,582
Speaker 1: this show, but Apple Martin is singing on the song,

773
00:35:44,062 --> 00:35:46,381
Speaker 1: and the consensus in the office is that we kind

774
00:35:46,382 --> 00:35:50,222
Speaker 1: of like the song. It's called Satellites.

775
00:35:48,261 --> 00:35:57,062
Speaker 2: We Ussie. Oh, it's beautiful.

776
00:35:57,102 --> 00:36:02,102
Speaker 1: It's very cold play, very Chris, did you catch that

777
00:36:02,221 --> 00:36:04,661
Speaker 1: guide you home there, I've gone deep on that. That

778
00:36:04,862 --> 00:36:07,821
Speaker 1: has to be an allusion to this iconic line from

779
00:36:07,822 --> 00:36:17,982
Speaker 1: Coldplays Fix You. I can't listen to this song without crying,

780
00:36:18,221 --> 00:36:20,341
Speaker 1: so we have to end it, and I have to

781
00:36:20,462 --> 00:36:23,582
Speaker 1: stop the song. So the twenty one year old Apple

782
00:36:23,781 --> 00:36:26,341
Speaker 1: made her debut as a model as well. She does

783
00:36:26,382 --> 00:36:28,861
Speaker 1: a lot of different things at Chanell's Paris Fashion Week

784
00:36:28,942 --> 00:36:32,341
Speaker 1: show in twenty twenty three, me too, And she has

785
00:36:32,781 --> 00:36:35,421
Speaker 1: just posed for Gaps Fall Down and campaign with her mother.

786
00:36:35,502 --> 00:36:37,742
Speaker 1: And she is also the face of the British brand

787
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:38,701
Speaker 1: self Portrait.

788
00:36:38,902 --> 00:36:40,781
Speaker 2: Have you seen those cute little Q and A she's

789
00:36:40,822 --> 00:36:43,542
Speaker 2: been doing in therese Yes, she is very busy.

790
00:36:43,661 --> 00:36:46,062
Speaker 1: All of us are very busy. And what fascinates me

791
00:36:46,181 --> 00:36:49,181
Speaker 1: about this is this strategy of building a star that

792
00:36:49,221 --> 00:36:51,822
Speaker 1: we are seeing here in real time. Why is Apple

793
00:36:51,862 --> 00:36:54,502
Speaker 1: Martin suddenly everywhere? I assume this is some kind of

794
00:36:54,542 --> 00:36:55,261
Speaker 1: concerted plan.

795
00:36:55,382 --> 00:36:57,142
Speaker 4: Can I interrupt us for one second when you say

796
00:36:57,181 --> 00:37:00,502
Speaker 4: Apple Martin is everywhere? I feel like your algorithms are

797
00:37:00,502 --> 00:37:02,941
Speaker 4: slightly different to mine, because today was the first time

798
00:37:02,982 --> 00:37:05,741
Speaker 4: I'd realized Apple Martin was doing anything. I knew that

799
00:37:05,781 --> 00:37:07,982
Speaker 4: she was a child of theirs, but I did not

800
00:37:08,102 --> 00:37:09,102
Speaker 4: know what she was doing or doing.

801
00:37:09,142 --> 00:37:11,462
Speaker 1: Now you know how you said you do fifty squats

802
00:37:11,502 --> 00:37:14,221
Speaker 1: while brushing your teeth. Collie and I exchanged text about

803
00:37:14,261 --> 00:37:16,941
Speaker 1: abrama rushing our teeth. Who's to say which one is better?

804
00:37:17,062 --> 00:37:17,782
Speaker 1: It's true.

805
00:37:18,102 --> 00:37:21,182
Speaker 2: There is no question that the culture, and not only

806
00:37:21,261 --> 00:37:24,942
Speaker 2: our obsession, is suddenly trying to thrust her upon us. Now.

807
00:37:25,062 --> 00:37:28,022
Speaker 2: I think it's all about the magic number twenty one.

808
00:37:28,302 --> 00:37:31,502
Speaker 2: That's what I think, right, Because if you have read,

809
00:37:32,022 --> 00:37:35,582
Speaker 2: as Amelia and I have the Gwyneth Pultrow biography by

810
00:37:35,622 --> 00:37:38,821
Speaker 2: Amy Odell, which last week Gwyneth referred to as a

811
00:37:38,862 --> 00:37:41,221
Speaker 2: hack job, which is a whole other conversation that we

812
00:37:41,302 --> 00:37:44,062
Speaker 2: will have off Mike, you would know that Gwyneth from

813
00:37:44,102 --> 00:37:45,942
Speaker 2: a very young age at school, wanted to be famous.

814
00:37:46,181 --> 00:37:48,781
Speaker 2: She wanted to be in movies. She wanted to act.

815
00:37:48,822 --> 00:37:51,222
Speaker 2: Her mum was an actress, her dad was a director.

816
00:37:51,261 --> 00:37:53,102
Speaker 2: So she was at what we would term a Neppo

817
00:37:53,181 --> 00:37:56,102
Speaker 2: Baby two and show. She was appearing. She was turning

818
00:37:56,181 --> 00:37:59,102
Speaker 2: up at her mom's theater, you know, summer theater, Stock place,

819
00:37:59,181 --> 00:38:01,582
Speaker 2: and appearing in the plays, and she was trying to

820
00:38:01,582 --> 00:38:04,062
Speaker 2: get parts in movies. When she was at UNI in

821
00:38:04,102 --> 00:38:06,701
Speaker 2: California when she was supposed to be studying, and her

822
00:38:06,741 --> 00:38:09,821
Speaker 2: parents tried to hold her back to a point until

823
00:38:09,822 --> 00:38:11,741
Speaker 2: she was an adult to enter the game, but she

824
00:38:11,902 --> 00:38:14,422
Speaker 2: jumped in a bit early, didn't she. I have a

825
00:38:14,462 --> 00:38:17,382
Speaker 2: theory that Gwinny and Chris, and Chris is a sensible

826
00:38:17,382 --> 00:38:21,301
Speaker 2: Englishman could clearly see Apple's stop tentral from a very

827
00:38:21,342 --> 00:38:24,942
Speaker 2: young age. Let's face it, she looks like a famous person.

828
00:38:25,261 --> 00:38:25,941
Speaker 2: I've only been.

829
00:38:26,142 --> 00:38:28,382
Speaker 1: Sounds like a famous person. She hands so much like Chris.

830
00:38:28,422 --> 00:38:31,902
Speaker 2: She suddenly looks ubiquitously familiar. And even those of us

831
00:38:31,942 --> 00:38:33,982
Speaker 2: who keep tabs on her Claire, I'm like you, I

832
00:38:34,022 --> 00:38:36,542
Speaker 2: haven't really been seeing her around that much until now.

833
00:38:36,741 --> 00:38:38,782
Speaker 2: She suddenly looks like I've been seeing her for ages.

834
00:38:39,022 --> 00:38:40,741
Speaker 2: I think they told her you have to wait to

835
00:38:40,822 --> 00:38:41,381
Speaker 2: her twenty one.

836
00:38:41,502 --> 00:38:43,421
Speaker 1: That makes sense because she turned twenty one in May,

837
00:38:43,741 --> 00:38:45,901
Speaker 1: and that's the age in the US where you can drink,

838
00:38:45,982 --> 00:38:48,861
Speaker 1: so it's very much like the mark of adulthood. And

839
00:38:49,221 --> 00:38:52,781
Speaker 1: she has been studying. She's at university, studying pre law

840
00:38:52,822 --> 00:38:55,462
Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt, which is a quite prestigious university in the

841
00:38:55,502 --> 00:38:58,381
Speaker 1: American South. She has said, my parents did a really

842
00:38:58,502 --> 00:39:00,781
Speaker 1: good job of telling me that I'm not entitled to

843
00:39:00,822 --> 00:39:02,781
Speaker 1: things that I need to work. I think that's a

844
00:39:02,902 --> 00:39:06,582
Speaker 1: very feasible theory. I want to complicate things, though, because

845
00:39:06,942 --> 00:39:10,102
Speaker 1: we can agree that her singing is really hauntingly familiar

846
00:39:10,142 --> 00:39:12,861
Speaker 1: to Chris's and is quite catchy and gordon, and she

847
00:39:12,982 --> 00:39:15,701
Speaker 1: certainly looks great in the bias cut dresses that she's

848
00:39:15,741 --> 00:39:19,502
Speaker 1: been modeling for self portrait. But she is modeling a

849
00:39:19,622 --> 00:39:22,902
Speaker 1: very different type of NEPO baby to others. She is

850
00:39:22,942 --> 00:39:25,582
Speaker 1: trying to show that she works very hard, that she

851
00:39:25,822 --> 00:39:29,062
Speaker 1: is getting there through discipline and through a concerted strategy.

852
00:39:29,181 --> 00:39:31,502
Speaker 1: There's another NEPO baby coming up through the ranks. Her

853
00:39:31,582 --> 00:39:34,222
Speaker 1: name is romy Mars. She is the daughter of Sophia

854
00:39:34,261 --> 00:39:37,702
Speaker 1: Coppola and the Phoenix singer Thomas Mars. She is eighteen,

855
00:39:37,781 --> 00:39:40,381
Speaker 1: so interesting age difference. There's still very much a child

856
00:39:40,462 --> 00:39:43,582
Speaker 1: in terms of the American markers of adulthood, and she

857
00:39:43,741 --> 00:39:47,542
Speaker 1: is completely unabashed about how her life is better than yours.

858
00:39:47,862 --> 00:39:50,902
Speaker 1: She's released this very super catchy single, it's called a Lister.

859
00:39:51,142 --> 00:39:53,942
Speaker 1: It's about flying in private jets, swimming in gorgeous pools.

860
00:39:53,942 --> 00:39:55,301
Speaker 1: I'm just going to play a little bit of it

861
00:39:55,342 --> 00:39:55,582
Speaker 1: for you.

862
00:39:55,622 --> 00:39:58,821
Speaker 6: Now, I'll say I'll be bored with everything that I've got,

863
00:39:58,982 --> 00:40:01,781
Speaker 6: get out of fancy clothes right after they get the

864
00:40:01,822 --> 00:40:05,262
Speaker 6: show and we create things from Masanna Kna flying REGI

865
00:40:05,902 --> 00:40:06,742
Speaker 6: just to feel something.

866
00:40:07,062 --> 00:40:09,222
Speaker 2: This song's going to make me cry for very different reason.

867
00:40:09,582 --> 00:40:11,182
Speaker 3: Fixed it's throwing shades.

868
00:40:11,422 --> 00:40:14,181
Speaker 4: Remember when her did Baby came out and said like

869
00:40:14,302 --> 00:40:16,781
Speaker 4: her mum never gave her anything designer when she was

870
00:40:16,781 --> 00:40:19,302
Speaker 4: growing up, and how hard life was for her.

871
00:40:19,741 --> 00:40:20,661
Speaker 3: That's what that feels like.

872
00:40:21,062 --> 00:40:22,942
Speaker 2: That was very catchy, though I enjoyed it.

873
00:40:22,982 --> 00:40:25,462
Speaker 1: Different great song, and she's just got a completely different

874
00:40:25,542 --> 00:40:28,942
Speaker 1: vibe to Apple. She originally became famous for a TikTok

875
00:40:29,022 --> 00:40:32,102
Speaker 1: in which she talked about being grounded because she attempted

876
00:40:32,102 --> 00:40:35,302
Speaker 1: to charter a helicopter to go and visit her friend,

877
00:40:35,982 --> 00:40:38,382
Speaker 1: which is relatable. And now she's very famous for a

878
00:40:38,382 --> 00:40:40,701
Speaker 1: TikTok dance that she filmed with Jacob A. Laudie where

879
00:40:40,701 --> 00:40:42,301
Speaker 1: they seem to be on the top of some kind

880
00:40:42,342 --> 00:40:46,942
Speaker 1: of Parisian skyscraper they're dancing, has more than thirty million views.

881
00:40:47,302 --> 00:40:49,741
Speaker 1: Be right back goodly, she makes me feel bad. The

882
00:40:49,781 --> 00:40:52,982
Speaker 1: thing about Apple is I think Apple's trying to position

883
00:40:53,062 --> 00:40:56,542
Speaker 1: herself as a different kind of nepo baby to that

884
00:40:56,741 --> 00:40:59,181
Speaker 1: Romy Mars model of Yeah, my life is great and

885
00:40:59,261 --> 00:41:00,381
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you about it.

886
00:41:01,542 --> 00:41:05,502
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's nothing new about daughters of actresses being actresses.

887
00:41:05,661 --> 00:41:07,821
Speaker 2: I think you're right, Like Romi is playing into a

888
00:41:07,862 --> 00:41:10,901
Speaker 2: bit more of that, like billionaire TikTok vibe, isn't she

889
00:41:11,261 --> 00:41:13,181
Speaker 2: We talked about Becka Bloom and that kind of look

890
00:41:13,221 --> 00:41:15,062
Speaker 2: at all my amazing stuff, And it's clear that Apple

891
00:41:15,102 --> 00:41:18,062
Speaker 2: wants to be. Well, what's interesting about that is, as

892
00:41:18,062 --> 00:41:20,701
Speaker 2: I said to Amelia when we're coming in, the gen

893
00:41:20,902 --> 00:41:22,301
Speaker 2: X in me is like, so does she want to

894
00:41:22,342 --> 00:41:23,781
Speaker 2: be an actress or does she want to be a

895
00:41:23,822 --> 00:41:25,662
Speaker 2: singer or does she want to be a model, Because

896
00:41:26,102 --> 00:41:28,622
Speaker 2: you used to have to pick one, right, But that's

897
00:41:28,661 --> 00:41:31,062
Speaker 2: not the way it works anymore. Clearly, Apple wants to

898
00:41:31,102 --> 00:41:34,701
Speaker 2: be all those things. The thing I find fascinating is

899
00:41:34,741 --> 00:41:38,222
Speaker 2: that Apple Martin would have grown up seeing her mom,

900
00:41:38,822 --> 00:41:41,942
Speaker 2: in particular her dad, everybody's kind of nice about generally,

901
00:41:42,221 --> 00:41:47,502
Speaker 2: but seeing her mom being slammed, mocked, derided for being

902
00:41:47,661 --> 00:41:50,902
Speaker 2: all the things that now Apple seems to be portraying

903
00:41:50,942 --> 00:41:53,062
Speaker 2: being a skinny blonde privilege.

904
00:41:53,622 --> 00:41:54,022
Speaker 1: It girl.

905
00:41:54,142 --> 00:41:56,781
Speaker 2: Essentially, yeah, being an it girl, a beautiful woman who

906
00:41:56,781 --> 00:42:00,902
Speaker 2: comes from privilege and then strategically used those advantages to

907
00:42:00,942 --> 00:42:02,782
Speaker 2: build a career. That's what a lot of people slag

908
00:42:02,862 --> 00:42:06,502
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow of for all the time. You might imagine

909
00:42:06,542 --> 00:42:08,582
Speaker 2: that if you grow up seeing that, you might think,

910
00:42:08,622 --> 00:42:10,821
Speaker 2: I don't want any part in that. I don't need

911
00:42:10,862 --> 00:42:12,661
Speaker 2: to do it for the money. I don't need to

912
00:42:12,701 --> 00:42:15,381
Speaker 2: have people writing about me, talking about me, slagging me off.

913
00:42:15,701 --> 00:42:18,062
Speaker 2: I could just live a nice, quiet life, but so

914
00:42:18,342 --> 00:42:22,462
Speaker 2: few do. It's really interesting to me that you would

915
00:42:22,622 --> 00:42:27,821
Speaker 2: be people are going to mock Apple Martin mercilessly. We

916
00:42:27,902 --> 00:42:31,181
Speaker 2: saw that because that beautiful song you played. She performed

917
00:42:31,181 --> 00:42:34,502
Speaker 2: it live at a gig in Nashville, and the video

918
00:42:34,542 --> 00:42:37,382
Speaker 2: of that has gone all over social media, and her

919
00:42:37,462 --> 00:42:39,622
Speaker 2: vocals don't sound as great as they do on that song.

920
00:42:39,862 --> 00:42:40,062
Speaker 1: You know.

921
00:42:40,181 --> 00:42:43,102
Speaker 2: I mean, it depends on your viewpoint, but she is

922
00:42:43,181 --> 00:42:47,301
Speaker 2: already being roundly mocked for being talentless and for being privileged,

923
00:42:47,302 --> 00:42:50,781
Speaker 2: and she will copy it. And I'm interested in this

924
00:42:50,942 --> 00:42:53,742
Speaker 2: sort of decision to do that when you're aware, whereas

925
00:42:53,741 --> 00:42:57,062
Speaker 2: a lot of famous people who become famous from nowhere,

926
00:42:57,102 --> 00:42:58,622
Speaker 2: so that you know their dad was a carpenter and

927
00:42:58,661 --> 00:43:00,062
Speaker 2: their mom was a teacher, but they wanted to be

928
00:43:00,142 --> 00:43:02,181
Speaker 2: an actor or a pop star. They'll say, nothing can

929
00:43:02,221 --> 00:43:05,462
Speaker 2: prepare you for fame, Nothing can prepare you for that spotlight.

930
00:43:05,542 --> 00:43:09,301
Speaker 2: It is a shock when it happens to you, exactly,

931
00:43:10,502 --> 00:43:13,462
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, we can barely walk outside. But like

932
00:43:13,582 --> 00:43:16,982
Speaker 2: these kids do know, they know exactly what's going to happen,

933
00:43:17,102 --> 00:43:19,342
Speaker 2: and yet they want to do it. So that's interesting

934
00:43:19,342 --> 00:43:19,862
Speaker 2: in itself.

935
00:43:19,942 --> 00:43:21,542
Speaker 4: Can I just say, what a time to be alive

936
00:43:21,582 --> 00:43:25,782
Speaker 4: that I've experienced second generation NEPO babies, Like this is fine,

937
00:43:25,982 --> 00:43:30,102
Speaker 4: that's such a good point. I do love a NEPO baby.

938
00:43:30,542 --> 00:43:33,301
Speaker 4: I mean, let's face it, though, these kids aren't the

939
00:43:33,342 --> 00:43:36,142
Speaker 4: first to step into the family business, Like you know,

940
00:43:36,261 --> 00:43:40,661
Speaker 4: if your family runs any kind of trade or store,

941
00:43:40,862 --> 00:43:45,142
Speaker 4: even like people step into their parents' shoes all the time,

942
00:43:45,302 --> 00:43:46,942
Speaker 4: Like you know, if your dad's a plumber, you end

943
00:43:46,982 --> 00:43:47,662
Speaker 4: up being a plumber.

944
00:43:47,741 --> 00:43:49,062
Speaker 3: Like no one kind of blinks an eye.

945
00:43:49,062 --> 00:43:52,382
Speaker 4: But when a kid of an entertainer also becomes an entertainer,

946
00:43:52,422 --> 00:43:55,262
Speaker 4: it's almost like we're going like, how dare they step

947
00:43:55,302 --> 00:43:57,661
Speaker 4: into that space? Like they're already ready for it.

948
00:43:57,701 --> 00:44:00,381
Speaker 2: I'm not shocked. I'm just amazed that they want that

949
00:44:00,502 --> 00:44:01,302
Speaker 2: level of attention.

950
00:44:01,542 --> 00:44:03,942
Speaker 4: They're used to it, right, There've been NEPO babies from

951
00:44:03,982 --> 00:44:06,501
Speaker 4: the moment they were in the world, and the fact

952
00:44:06,502 --> 00:44:09,221
Speaker 4: that they called her Apple was spread on headlines from

953
00:44:09,542 --> 00:44:11,181
Speaker 4: one end of the world to the other. Like, they

954
00:44:11,181 --> 00:44:14,221
Speaker 4: are so used to this attention already, I would be

955
00:44:14,261 --> 00:44:17,702
Speaker 4: surprised if they have not had many conversations Gwyneth, Chris

956
00:44:17,741 --> 00:44:20,221
Speaker 4: and Apple and the other one. There's a fourth one

957
00:44:20,221 --> 00:44:22,262
Speaker 4: of them, right, there's another child, Moses.

958
00:44:22,542 --> 00:44:24,181
Speaker 2: He's still at UNI. He has to wait till he

959
00:44:24,221 --> 00:44:24,941
Speaker 2: turns twenty one.

960
00:44:25,142 --> 00:44:27,502
Speaker 4: Like, I'm sure that they've had many conversations about the

961
00:44:27,582 --> 00:44:29,262
Speaker 4: choices that they're going to make if they do step

962
00:44:29,261 --> 00:44:31,301
Speaker 4: into the same limelight as their parents do. And I'm

963
00:44:31,302 --> 00:44:33,741
Speaker 4: sure that they are well armed to handle it, and

964
00:44:33,982 --> 00:44:36,301
Speaker 4: arguably are better armed to handle it than someone who

965
00:44:36,342 --> 00:44:38,741
Speaker 4: does come out of obscurity into the spotlight all of

966
00:44:38,741 --> 00:44:41,102
Speaker 4: a sudden, because they've grown up with it and understand

967
00:44:41,102 --> 00:44:41,901
Speaker 4: it so.

968
00:44:41,982 --> 00:44:42,741
Speaker 1: Like I get it.

969
00:44:42,902 --> 00:44:45,462
Speaker 4: Sure, they don't want to cop the shit, no one does,

970
00:44:45,542 --> 00:44:47,861
Speaker 4: but they're used to it in a way, and I

971
00:44:47,902 --> 00:44:50,902
Speaker 4: think they're fore armed and forewarned well, they definitely have

972
00:44:50,942 --> 00:44:53,421
Speaker 4: a role model for it. So Gwyneth Paltrow is well

973
00:44:53,462 --> 00:44:56,542
Speaker 4: known for being massively criticized, of course, and for she

974
00:44:56,661 --> 00:44:59,102
Speaker 4: has this I don't care energy about it, and some

975
00:44:59,142 --> 00:45:02,062
Speaker 4: people like that and some people don't. The crucial distinction

976
00:45:02,181 --> 00:45:04,301
Speaker 4: that needs to be made between your parent being a

977
00:45:04,342 --> 00:45:06,701
Speaker 4: plumber and your parent being a movie start, though, is there.

978
00:45:06,822 --> 00:45:09,542
Speaker 4: You don't hear a great deal plumbing. It's so high

979
00:45:09,701 --> 00:45:11,861
Speaker 4: to break into, Like you can go and do an

980
00:45:11,862 --> 00:45:15,901
Speaker 4: apprenticeship and become a plumber, like, whereas this world is

981
00:45:15,982 --> 00:45:18,862
Speaker 4: so rarefied, it's so hard people like to get into.

982
00:45:18,902 --> 00:45:21,462
Speaker 4: It's had anyway. The last point I want to make

983
00:45:21,741 --> 00:45:24,782
Speaker 4: is there are some only a few children of famous

984
00:45:24,822 --> 00:45:28,502
Speaker 4: people who do not step into their shoes. Bruce Springsteen

985
00:45:28,502 --> 00:45:30,502
Speaker 4: has a son who's a firefighter. One of Anna Wintour's

986
00:45:30,582 --> 00:45:33,742
Speaker 4: kids is a psychiatrist. Gordon Ramsey's daughter is a police officer.

987
00:45:33,902 --> 00:45:36,181
Speaker 1: Okay, problem with the Anna Winter one is that Anna

988
00:45:36,221 --> 00:45:38,981
Speaker 1: Wintre's ex husband, who is the father of the psychiatrist,

989
00:45:39,022 --> 00:45:44,542
Speaker 1: is a psychiatrist, so he's actually absent. Howard Stern's another

990
00:45:44,542 --> 00:45:47,421
Speaker 1: good example. He has two daughters, one is a rabbi

991
00:45:47,462 --> 00:45:48,861
Speaker 1: and one is a social worker.

992
00:45:48,781 --> 00:45:50,582
Speaker 2: So some of them do go no, I don't want

993
00:45:50,582 --> 00:45:53,661
Speaker 2: to do that out loud as a massive thank you

994
00:45:53,701 --> 00:45:55,862
Speaker 2: to all of you for being here with us today.

995
00:45:55,902 --> 00:45:59,022
Speaker 2: As always, remember you can watch this on YouTube if

996
00:45:59,062 --> 00:46:01,942
Speaker 2: you would like to see us responding to the fabulous

997
00:46:01,942 --> 00:46:03,661
Speaker 2: sulcit tones of Apple Martin.

998
00:46:03,542 --> 00:46:04,982
Speaker 1: Or my deep plame facelift.

999
00:46:05,022 --> 00:46:07,181
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you want to see a steep flame

1000
00:46:07,302 --> 00:46:10,102
Speaker 2: facelift and assess whether or not I could be on

1001
00:46:10,181 --> 00:46:12,942
Speaker 2: the Golden batchel if you're looking for something else to

1002
00:46:12,982 --> 00:46:17,102
Speaker 2: listen to. On yesterday's Subscribe episode, we tackled some listener

1003
00:46:17,102 --> 00:46:21,301
Speaker 2: dilemmas including is Laser out now that Kim k is

1004
00:46:21,302 --> 00:46:24,662
Speaker 2: bringing the bush back? And what are the rules around

1005
00:46:24,661 --> 00:46:28,062
Speaker 2: group office gifts? And can you ask for a refund?

1006
00:46:28,342 --> 00:46:30,941
Speaker 1: And don't forget to listen to Parenting out Loud, which

1007
00:46:31,022 --> 00:46:34,022
Speaker 1: drops every week on a Saturday. In our last episode,

1008
00:46:34,102 --> 00:46:37,582
Speaker 1: we talked about the very Australian problem with Halloween and

1009
00:46:37,701 --> 00:46:40,622
Speaker 1: whether we're actually all missing the point with it, and

1010
00:46:40,661 --> 00:46:45,262
Speaker 1: plus somehow Henley Bieber has become our accidental parenting guru.

1011
00:46:45,422 --> 00:46:47,702
Speaker 1: You need to listen to find out why, so find

1012
00:46:47,701 --> 00:46:50,182
Speaker 1: it in its own feed by searching parenting out loud

1013
00:46:50,221 --> 00:46:52,661
Speaker 1: and tap follow so you don't miss an episode.

1014
00:46:52,862 --> 00:46:55,182
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. Friends.

1015
00:46:55,462 --> 00:46:57,301
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to our team who help us

1016
00:46:57,302 --> 00:46:59,062
Speaker 2: put this show together every single day.

1017
00:46:59,542 --> 00:47:01,142
Speaker 3: Goodbye, bye bye.

1018
00:47:02,102 --> 00:47:04,982
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

1019
00:47:05,142 --> 00:47:08,022
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

1020
00:47:08,022 --> 00:47:10,142
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best best way to

1021
00:47:10,142 --> 00:47:12,542
Speaker 2: do it. There's a link in the episode description.