WEBVTT - But What Have You Done To Your Face

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Amma mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on wrinkles and blotches and

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<v Speaker 2>bits that sag, shadows and creases and crape. My face

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<v Speaker 2>is changing, and I'm faking being fine with it. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you are too. I'm sure that wasn't there yesterday, I say,

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<v Speaker 2>peering into the mirror without my bifocal contact lenses with

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<v Speaker 2>their comforting blur, poking at a crevice, holding up an eyelid,

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<v Speaker 2>reaching for a tweezer, a potion, a coverall. Sometimes it

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<v Speaker 2>takes all the will in the world not.

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<v Speaker 1>To want to scrape it off.

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<v Speaker 2>Stop the change, stop the slide, stop the fold, stop

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<v Speaker 2>the inevitable. Freeze it in time, sand it, smooth it,

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<v Speaker 2>lift it, fill it. Maybe I will. Maybe if I

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<v Speaker 2>did that, I wouldn't notice anymore that I'm aging. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>fewer lines would distract me from my undulating hormones.

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<v Speaker 1>That little grunt as I stand up, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Advancing migrain, the birthday numbers counting up to nowhere, the

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<v Speaker 2>days I get to spend with my people counting down.

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<v Speaker 2>But also if I do that to try to trick

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<v Speaker 2>the mirror, then another trap yawns open.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't you dare look.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you're trying too hard, so sad, so desperate. What

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<v Speaker 2>have you done to your face? So many opinions, so

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<v Speaker 2>much criticism, so much wasted energy on this little patch

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<v Speaker 2>of fleshy real estate. Maybe if my face just bloody

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<v Speaker 2>stopped changing, I could pretend time wasn't passing. The change

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<v Speaker 2>is accelerating. Today, I'm despairing over an image that I

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<v Speaker 2>know in a year I will consider impossibly youthful. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>despairing is a strong word, one I should save for

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<v Speaker 2>things worthy of dis stress, illness, and loss and stubbed

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<v Speaker 2>toes in the dark. But then again, maybe despairing is

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<v Speaker 2>the right word, because our faces apparently mean so much.

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<v Speaker 2>They signal to the world where we're up to, near

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning, near the end, somewhere in the messy mid

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<v Speaker 2>They signal to the world, apparently, how much we care,

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<v Speaker 2>how together we are, how well we nurture ourselves. Does

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<v Speaker 2>an errant eyebrow mean we're messy, an unfilled line that

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<v Speaker 2>we've given up? Beauty is a beast when you're mid

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<v Speaker 2>because aging is a privilege, but looking young is everything.

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<v Speaker 2>The entire world says, So why, my mirror asks me,

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<v Speaker 2>as I peered too close? Do you care about this?

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<v Speaker 2>You're not a supermodel or a celebrity. Your worth isn't

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<v Speaker 2>tied to your foreheadlines. You know you're always saying it

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<v Speaker 2>that getting to bitch about wrinkles is a lottery winning luck.

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<v Speaker 2>So many others would give anything for. You know that,

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<v Speaker 2>deep in your bones that these are stripes of pride,

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<v Speaker 2>blotch of wisdom, folds of experience. Those words are so

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<v Speaker 2>true it hurts. We all feel it. We didn't get

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<v Speaker 2>this wise without knowing about insides versus outsides, and the

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<v Speaker 2>futility of relentless comparison, or the subtle manipulation of shifting

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<v Speaker 2>beauty standards. But still, even with all that wisdom, some days,

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<v Speaker 2>the mirror is a fucking bitch.

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<v Speaker 1>I said it.

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<v Speaker 2>My face is changing, and I'm busy faking being fine

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<v Speaker 2>with it. Maybe one day I won't have to fake

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<v Speaker 2>it at all. The hard fought wisdom that drew those

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<v Speaker 2>fine lines will settle into every cell of my body,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll be comfortable and confident in my serum lathered skin.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait. I'll see you there.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, Hello, I am Holly Wainwright and I am Mid,

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<v Speaker 2>mid Life, mid Family, mid Wrinkle, Panic, and today we're

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<v Speaker 2>bringing you the last conversation of mid season two. It

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<v Speaker 2>has been a ridiculous treat to bring you the conversations

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<v Speaker 2>we've brought you about sex, money, time, sisters, invisibility, rage,

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<v Speaker 2>and that big family shift. If you missed any of them,

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<v Speaker 2>now's your moment. Go back and listen, share them with

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who needs to hear them. And please, if you

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<v Speaker 2>love mid, throw us a follow and leave us a review.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that every podcast you listen to asks you.

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<v Speaker 1>To do that, but there's a good reason.

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<v Speaker 2>That's because it helps more people find us, and the

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<v Speaker 2>more mids, I think you'll agree, the better. But today

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<v Speaker 2>a treat. You might have gathered from my introduction that

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<v Speaker 2>we are talking about faces and bodies, and at the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of this season, I promised you a supermodel. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know who you thought was going to walk in

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<v Speaker 2>here with me, but I know you're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>delighted to meet her if you haven't already. Alison Bray

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<v Speaker 2>was the Australian model of the late eighties and early nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>On every magazine cover and on every teenage girl's wall.

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<v Speaker 2>She had a huge career here and overseas, and then

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<v Speaker 2>she married the equally famous and attractive Cameron Daddo and

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<v Speaker 2>backed right away from the industry, settled in la and

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<v Speaker 2>raised a family. Now, as Alison Bray Daddo, or Ali,

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<v Speaker 2>as very many of us know her, she's also become

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<v Speaker 2>just the most honest, interesting voice about midlife and menopause

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<v Speaker 2>and all the messy challenges it brings us. But today

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<v Speaker 2>we're not actually talking about that. We're getting deep about

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<v Speaker 2>surface stuff, beauty, whatever it means to us. And let's

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<v Speaker 2>be honest, there's a sliding scale of how much any

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<v Speaker 2>of us can ever claim to have felt beautiful at

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<v Speaker 2>any age. It's a beast in midlife because how we

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<v Speaker 2>wear our age on our face and our bodies can

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<v Speaker 2>feel so important and so crucial to how the outside

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<v Speaker 2>world sees us, even as we know that it's really

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<v Speaker 2>the silliest of all of our concerns. It often doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>feel that way. So come and talk to me and

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<v Speaker 2>Ali about how we're feeling about that, what we're doing

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<v Speaker 2>about that, and where we all stand on the mistakes

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<v Speaker 2>we've made in thinking and talking about our faces and

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<v Speaker 2>our bodies as we've.

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<v Speaker 1>Moved on through.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Mid Season two, Episode eight, Beauty with Ali Daddo. Alie,

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<v Speaker 2>I could talk to you about a million things on

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<v Speaker 2>mid that our audience would love to hear. You talk

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<v Speaker 2>about menopause obviously, yes, since you've literally written the book

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<v Speaker 2>Long Marriages and Relationships, because you've literally made a podcasts, correct,

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<v Speaker 2>starting a new business in mid like you've recently done that.

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<v Speaker 2>You're doing all kinds of things. But I asked you

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<v Speaker 2>here primarily to talk about something that should be beneath

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<v Speaker 2>us all I think, but actually really gets in our

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<v Speaker 2>way when we're in this phase of life. What we

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<v Speaker 2>look like, beauty, body, are faces, all those things. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, you're very beautiful. That's very kind.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't you look amazing?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you?

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<v Speaker 2>And I know, of course, because I've heard you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about it lots of times that even when you were

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<v Speaker 2>a very famous model, that wasn't currency you were particularly

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<v Speaker 2>interested in and it was quite difficult for you to handle.

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<v Speaker 2>But do you feel beautiful?

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<v Speaker 3>I actually feel much more beautiful now than I did

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<v Speaker 3>when I was modeling. Really yeah, and it's only been

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<v Speaker 3>a new experience. I still struggle with, like looking at

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<v Speaker 3>my legs or my cellulide or the belly that overhangs

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<v Speaker 3>the pants, and wish that I could wear the clothes

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<v Speaker 3>that I had, though there's just a feeling now that

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<v Speaker 3>I have in myself that is so much more at

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<v Speaker 3>peace than I was when I was younger and modeling,

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<v Speaker 3>and I didn't ever expect that that would happen. I

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<v Speaker 3>was sitting with a group of women and it was

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<v Speaker 3>a meditation and we were talking about it was sort

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<v Speaker 3>of like the things that are noise about our bodies

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<v Speaker 3>or the things we'd want to change. And I sat

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<v Speaker 3>there and I kind of was like, what do I

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<v Speaker 3>want to change? Like what am I unhappy with? And

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<v Speaker 3>I was like, there's things I want to change about

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<v Speaker 3>how I approach things and how I do some things

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<v Speaker 3>and how I react to some things. But I did

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<v Speaker 3>not come up with anything I wanted to change physically.

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard you talk over the process of this when

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<v Speaker 2>you released Queen Menopause, and you in that book very

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<v Speaker 2>honest diary entries of journal entries rather about various stages

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<v Speaker 2>of this. And so it's been a journey to use

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<v Speaker 2>it overase word to get to that place.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm not there all the time. I'm certainly not

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<v Speaker 3>there all the time, but I was in that moment

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<v Speaker 3>and I felt really the joy I felt in that

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<v Speaker 3>moment was like, oh, have I actually let it all go?

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<v Speaker 3>Am I actually okay with finally in my physical body.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it wasn't like the glaring list of I

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<v Speaker 3>wish I had longer legs and you know, smooth skin,

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<v Speaker 3>and I didn't have that come up with first. So

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<v Speaker 3>it was interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so good.

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<v Speaker 2>When you were a young model, did you ever think

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<v Speaker 2>about what it would be like to be the sage

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<v Speaker 2>were afraid of aging?

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<v Speaker 3>I was so naive at that age.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't really.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about sure as hell, didn't think about menopause and

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<v Speaker 3>even cross my mind. But I looked at my mom

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<v Speaker 3>and I knew I didn't want her body shape. I

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<v Speaker 3>remember thinking that I have her exact body shape.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, It's true. I was thinking about this the

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<v Speaker 2>other day and this is probably way tmi. But when

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<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, I was used to talk to

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<v Speaker 2>my mom when she was in the bath. We were

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<v Speaker 2>in a naked house, but that was often a place

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<v Speaker 2>where because she used to have a Bathnili every day English.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course she'd.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a bath Neil every day, and that would sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>be I would go and sit on the toilet seat

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<v Speaker 2>and talk to her, not you know what I mean. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we'd sometimes talk, and so I would look at her body,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm ashamed to say, but I did used to

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<v Speaker 2>think too, yeah, not terrible. And I also used to

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<v Speaker 2>think that will never be me. There was nothing wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with my mum's body, let's be clear. Yeah, but I

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<v Speaker 2>thought that will never be me.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course, it's exactly me. I'm identical to my

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<v Speaker 3>mother and my mom. I used to pat my mum's

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<v Speaker 3>tummy in say you get a baby in there, you're

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<v Speaker 3>pregnant mom. The amount of times I've been asked how

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<v Speaker 3>far along I am at the age of fifty four

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<v Speaker 3>is embarrassing. This is truly childhood karma coming back at

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<v Speaker 3>me very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I'm going to be honest and say that right

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<v Speaker 2>now if I was going to ask myself that question

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment, I'm not feeling that great about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I think I was feeling better about it. Actually

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<v Speaker 2>when I turn fifty and now I feel like it

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<v Speaker 2>all changes really quickly, and my skin tone and your

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<v Speaker 2>skin texture and all that boring stuff. The things I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing to keep a handle on my weight seemed

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<v Speaker 2>to not be working now, so I'm looking for a

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<v Speaker 2>new fix for that shit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But the thing is that sort of compounds feeling bad

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<v Speaker 2>about that stuff is that I also feel like I

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't care, Like, Yes, how stupid to care about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I am old and wise and I shouldn't care, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>But feeling guilty about that makes it worse.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that's where the idea of body positivity,

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<v Speaker 3>which of course if it's naturally there for you, it's

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<v Speaker 3>this very fine line where it can actually flip so

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<v Speaker 3>much into shame and guilt for women if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>have it, and then it's another thing to feel shitty

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<v Speaker 3>about yourself that you're not I should feel better, I

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<v Speaker 3>should love my body. You know when am I going

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<v Speaker 3>to love my body? And I think that's a real

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<v Speaker 3>catch for women, because we're sold, you know, this bill

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<v Speaker 3>of goods since day dot what the perfect body should

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<v Speaker 3>look like in the skin, and you know what is

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<v Speaker 3>deemed is the number one look, and then if you

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<v Speaker 3>don't fit that, then you're wrong. But then we're also

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<v Speaker 3>told love your curves, love you cellulate, love who you are,

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<v Speaker 3>and then if you don't feel that either, you're like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh crap, you know, I'm failing and everything. So I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's a really challenging position for women to find

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<v Speaker 3>themselves in if we're not like, I just love my

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<v Speaker 3>muffin top, This is amazing, you know, And I don't

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<v Speaker 3>feel that about my muffin top. You know, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>feel that I wish it would go away. I do,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'm not going to get upset about it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's the change for me where I used

0:12:20.687 --> 0:12:23.527
<v Speaker 3>to but now it's like I know how to dress

0:12:23.527 --> 0:12:27.967
<v Speaker 3>it up now, to learn those things what works and

0:12:28.007 --> 0:12:29.047
<v Speaker 3>what doesn't work. Now.

0:12:29.527 --> 0:12:31.367
<v Speaker 2>You know, we're supposed to be very wise at this

0:12:31.407 --> 0:12:33.127
<v Speaker 2>stage of life, and we are, but you still have

0:12:33.207 --> 0:12:35.087
<v Speaker 2>good days and bad days in terms of how much

0:12:35.087 --> 0:12:36.727
<v Speaker 2>you care about that. And one of the reasons why

0:12:36.727 --> 0:12:39.607
<v Speaker 2>it can really get in your head, I think, is

0:12:39.647 --> 0:12:42.327
<v Speaker 2>that we worry that what we look like and us

0:12:42.367 --> 0:12:44.927
<v Speaker 2>looking older or middle aged or whatever words we want

0:12:44.967 --> 0:12:48.247
<v Speaker 2>to put around that is not how we feel inside. Yes, yes,

0:12:48.807 --> 0:12:51.847
<v Speaker 2>So it's like the push to hold on to some

0:12:51.927 --> 0:12:54.527
<v Speaker 2>kind of youth in terms of what we look like

0:12:54.687 --> 0:12:57.607
<v Speaker 2>is about how we want to be seen by others,

0:12:57.647 --> 0:12:57.927
<v Speaker 2>isn't it?

0:12:58.007 --> 0:12:58.407
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:12:58.447 --> 0:13:02.127
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And I mean I think every woman feels that

0:13:02.207 --> 0:13:06.167
<v Speaker 3>invisibility factor when we hit a certain age where you

0:13:06.487 --> 0:13:10.767
<v Speaker 3>just sort of pushed in a certain direction for clothing,

0:13:10.887 --> 0:13:14.687
<v Speaker 3>for skincare, for you can't dress like that at your age.

0:13:15.047 --> 0:13:17.167
<v Speaker 3>You know, you have to change that, you have to

0:13:17.367 --> 0:13:20.967
<v Speaker 3>you know, there's a push in that direction, which I

0:13:21.007 --> 0:13:22.967
<v Speaker 3>think is challenging. And I think you know, I've been

0:13:23.007 --> 0:13:25.927
<v Speaker 3>asked that before. You know, as a model, have you

0:13:25.967 --> 0:13:29.767
<v Speaker 3>found it more confronting to hit menopause and age? And

0:13:29.807 --> 0:13:33.367
<v Speaker 3>I just think it's confronting for most women. I don't

0:13:33.407 --> 0:13:35.447
<v Speaker 3>think whether you're a model or not. I think it

0:13:35.567 --> 0:13:40.047
<v Speaker 3>can be very confronting. You know, as we see, you know,

0:13:40.167 --> 0:13:43.047
<v Speaker 3>my mother's body reflecting back in me at the mirror,

0:13:43.087 --> 0:13:46.087
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, Okay, yeah, this is not how I feel.

0:13:46.167 --> 0:13:48.607
<v Speaker 3>As you say, I still feel like I'm kind of

0:13:48.727 --> 0:13:51.887
<v Speaker 3>twenty one in a lot of ways, and I still

0:13:51.927 --> 0:13:54.727
<v Speaker 3>sometimes think I can shop like a twenty one year old.

0:13:54.807 --> 0:13:57.087
<v Speaker 2>Well, you and I both were in cool trainers to that, Ali,

0:13:57.287 --> 0:13:57.687
<v Speaker 2>that's right.

0:13:57.687 --> 0:13:59.647
<v Speaker 3>From my ankles down, we are twenty one.

0:13:59.807 --> 0:14:02.567
<v Speaker 1>Ankles down, we are exceptionally cool.

0:14:04.047 --> 0:14:06.327
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But then it's so funny, I go, I can't

0:14:06.367 --> 0:14:10.247
<v Speaker 3>wear those tight, tight dresses now, and then goes, of

0:14:10.247 --> 0:14:13.127
<v Speaker 3>course you can, of course you can. Who cares if

0:14:13.167 --> 0:14:16.247
<v Speaker 3>you've got a belly? Now, Like, who's the only person caring?

0:14:16.487 --> 0:14:19.807
<v Speaker 2>Really? And it would be me. Yeah, it's true, you know.

0:14:19.967 --> 0:14:22.367
<v Speaker 3>So it's like, yeah, you can, you can if you

0:14:22.407 --> 0:14:24.687
<v Speaker 3>want to, if you want to. So it's like all

0:14:24.727 --> 0:14:26.127
<v Speaker 3>of those machinations.

0:14:27.687 --> 0:14:29.927
<v Speaker 2>The thing about this is that we might make peace

0:14:30.327 --> 0:14:32.607
<v Speaker 2>with I'm getting older, my face looks older, my body

0:14:32.607 --> 0:14:35.287
<v Speaker 2>looks older. Then it feels like we have an array

0:14:35.287 --> 0:14:38.087
<v Speaker 2>of choices about how much to care, how much we're

0:14:38.127 --> 0:14:41.007
<v Speaker 2>going to do about it, right, depending on our resources

0:14:41.327 --> 0:14:45.167
<v Speaker 2>and our priorities. We have options available to us that

0:14:45.207 --> 0:14:48.967
<v Speaker 2>were not available to our mothers, everything from laser to

0:14:49.207 --> 0:14:52.807
<v Speaker 2>UV to micro needling to more invasive things, everything from

0:14:52.927 --> 0:14:57.767
<v Speaker 2>surgery to weight loss injections to keto. Right, we've got

0:14:58.287 --> 0:15:01.127
<v Speaker 2>a never ending barrage of stuff coming at us that

0:15:01.247 --> 0:15:03.127
<v Speaker 2>will You don't have to You don't have to look

0:15:03.167 --> 0:15:06.687
<v Speaker 2>middle aged if you don't want to. Are you comfortable

0:15:06.727 --> 0:15:08.407
<v Speaker 2>talking about what you do and don't do and what

0:15:08.447 --> 0:15:09.127
<v Speaker 2>your lines are?

0:15:09.287 --> 0:15:09.887
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

0:15:10.047 --> 0:15:10.687
<v Speaker 2>What do you do?

0:15:12.767 --> 0:15:15.847
<v Speaker 3>I've never had botox or fellows, I've never done anything like.

0:15:15.847 --> 0:15:17.287
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever been tempted to do that?

0:15:17.967 --> 0:15:20.407
<v Speaker 3>Do you know? Just recently, I was looking at my

0:15:20.527 --> 0:15:24.087
<v Speaker 3>friend who she's fifty, so she's a wee bit younger

0:15:24.127 --> 0:15:27.687
<v Speaker 3>than me. She only does her frown lines between the

0:15:27.687 --> 0:15:29.167
<v Speaker 3>eyebrows and minor.

0:15:29.047 --> 0:15:29.767
<v Speaker 2>Quite does that.

0:15:30.087 --> 0:15:33.207
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I have quite deep ish ones for me, like

0:15:33.327 --> 0:15:37.367
<v Speaker 3>I certainly see it in photos and you know, selfies

0:15:37.407 --> 0:15:40.927
<v Speaker 3>and all that crap. I'm like, ah, it's only those lines.

0:15:41.087 --> 0:15:43.807
<v Speaker 3>And I think it's because they're frown lines. I love

0:15:43.847 --> 0:15:47.287
<v Speaker 3>my laugh lines, love them. Anything to do with smiling,

0:15:47.447 --> 0:15:50.247
<v Speaker 3>enjoy those lines I love. But those ones are my

0:15:50.327 --> 0:15:53.247
<v Speaker 3>angry lines. And so sometimes I'm like, I don't think

0:15:53.287 --> 0:15:54.727
<v Speaker 3>I want those very much.

0:15:55.367 --> 0:15:57.927
<v Speaker 2>So that would exactly sorry when I said, before MEA

0:15:57.967 --> 0:15:59.927
<v Speaker 2>does that, I should clarify A. She would be so

0:16:00.007 --> 0:16:02.247
<v Speaker 2>cool with me saying that. But also that's what she

0:16:02.327 --> 0:16:04.807
<v Speaker 2>said when she was wrestling with herself about botox and God.

0:16:04.807 --> 0:16:06.887
<v Speaker 2>She wrestled with herself about bow tyes for a very

0:16:06.887 --> 0:16:10.887
<v Speaker 2>long time publicly, of course, she said she just didn't

0:16:10.887 --> 0:16:12.847
<v Speaker 2>want to look pissed off all the time when she

0:16:12.927 --> 0:16:16.047
<v Speaker 2>actually wasn't pissed off. Rest in bitch face and people

0:16:16.167 --> 0:16:19.247
<v Speaker 2>like to think that older women are grumpy anyway, So

0:16:19.527 --> 0:16:22.407
<v Speaker 2>that's a similar thing. It's about that making your outsides

0:16:22.607 --> 0:16:23.967
<v Speaker 2>much insides.

0:16:23.567 --> 0:16:25.007
<v Speaker 3>There, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:16:25.047 --> 0:16:27.287
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a barrier in your mind about doing it?

0:16:27.407 --> 0:16:29.327
<v Speaker 2>Or is it just whether or not you could be bothered?

0:16:29.607 --> 0:16:31.047
<v Speaker 3>It's a bit of a weather or not I could

0:16:31.087 --> 0:16:33.807
<v Speaker 3>be bothered, and I'm slightly terrified. I just think, am

0:16:33.847 --> 0:16:35.847
<v Speaker 3>I going to be that one person that has a

0:16:36.087 --> 0:16:41.007
<v Speaker 3>hideous reaction to it? My husband is delightfully proud of

0:16:41.047 --> 0:16:43.207
<v Speaker 3>the fact that I've never done anything, is he? He

0:16:43.327 --> 0:16:45.407
<v Speaker 3>talks about it all the time. He goes, you know,

0:16:45.607 --> 0:16:48.967
<v Speaker 3>look at your face, honey, you're aging so beautifully.

0:16:49.127 --> 0:16:49.247
<v Speaker 2>There.

0:16:49.407 --> 0:16:52.287
<v Speaker 3>So many women have done stuff and you haven't done anything.

0:16:52.327 --> 0:16:56.127
<v Speaker 3>And it's really lovely to have someone that sees the

0:16:56.167 --> 0:16:58.367
<v Speaker 3>beauty of my aging. Who is my partner?

0:16:58.607 --> 0:17:01.327
<v Speaker 2>You know? But isn't it funny that it's a compliment.

0:17:01.607 --> 0:17:03.847
<v Speaker 2>I think that my partner would be the same, and

0:17:03.927 --> 0:17:06.087
<v Speaker 2>that he would be a bit judge is probably the

0:17:06.087 --> 0:17:08.567
<v Speaker 2>wrong word, but probably is also the right word. He

0:17:08.687 --> 0:17:10.487
<v Speaker 2>probably would be a bit judgy if I stuff, if

0:17:10.487 --> 0:17:13.887
<v Speaker 2>you do something, yes, yeah, But it's funny that it's

0:17:13.967 --> 0:17:17.087
<v Speaker 2>kind of a compliment when really, how much of it

0:17:17.127 --> 0:17:18.647
<v Speaker 2>is to do with us, do you know what I mean?

0:17:18.807 --> 0:17:24.247
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know. I mean I am absolutely pro whatever

0:17:24.287 --> 0:17:26.767
<v Speaker 3>you want to do to your face, basically because I

0:17:26.807 --> 0:17:30.007
<v Speaker 3>think as long as it brings you to a place

0:17:30.007 --> 0:17:30.767
<v Speaker 3>of feeling better.

0:17:31.007 --> 0:17:31.167
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:17:31.247 --> 0:17:34.167
<v Speaker 3>I worry about people that, you know, go on those

0:17:35.007 --> 0:17:38.247
<v Speaker 3>massive plastic face journeys and still feel like crap because

0:17:38.247 --> 0:17:42.327
<v Speaker 3>it hasn't helped what's inside. But if a little tuck

0:17:42.447 --> 0:17:47.247
<v Speaker 3>and injectible really makes you feel better, then go for it.

0:17:47.367 --> 0:17:47.927
<v Speaker 2>Go you know.

0:17:48.367 --> 0:17:51.167
<v Speaker 3>And I've said this before. What I don't like is

0:17:51.487 --> 0:17:54.687
<v Speaker 3>but this is more like from celebrities, is when celebrities

0:17:54.727 --> 0:17:57.327
<v Speaker 3>have had so much work and then they go, oh,

0:17:57.407 --> 0:18:00.167
<v Speaker 3>it's just it's just because I wash my face with

0:18:00.847 --> 0:18:04.527
<v Speaker 3>lemon juice and eat cabbage. No it's not. And that

0:18:04.647 --> 0:18:07.407
<v Speaker 3>makes the rest of us feel like we can't keep up,

0:18:07.607 --> 0:18:10.887
<v Speaker 3>you know. But it's so vicious circle, isn't it. Like

0:18:10.967 --> 0:18:14.047
<v Speaker 3>the whole plastic surgery and everything, It's sort of the

0:18:14.047 --> 0:18:17.487
<v Speaker 3>more women have it, the more we feel we should

0:18:17.487 --> 0:18:20.167
<v Speaker 3>be having it the rest of us. And you know,

0:18:20.287 --> 0:18:23.447
<v Speaker 3>sometimes I think that I've been kind of left behind

0:18:23.567 --> 0:18:27.167
<v Speaker 3>in the plastic surgery injectable thing. It's like, oh, I'm

0:18:27.207 --> 0:18:29.167
<v Speaker 3>fifty four, it's too late to do anything now.

0:18:29.407 --> 0:18:31.207
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I should have done it earlier. I don't know.

0:18:32.087 --> 0:18:35.007
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I think now, if I went into and I

0:18:35.167 --> 0:18:36.567
<v Speaker 2>was like, right, I'm going to get this. I'm going

0:18:36.647 --> 0:18:38.287
<v Speaker 2>to get these rinkles sort out here, it would be

0:18:38.287 --> 0:18:40.807
<v Speaker 2>a bit like painting the skirting boards but leaving all

0:18:40.807 --> 0:18:41.287
<v Speaker 2>the walls.

0:18:41.367 --> 0:18:46.447
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, where do you stop? I know, I mean I

0:18:46.527 --> 0:18:48.247
<v Speaker 3>kind of course I know how it works, but I'm like,

0:18:48.287 --> 0:18:51.767
<v Speaker 3>the crevice is already there, So how does botox stop?

0:18:52.207 --> 0:18:55.647
<v Speaker 3>Does it stop me from frowning so the crevices disappear naturally?

0:18:55.847 --> 0:18:59.527
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, you know, it would be highly unlikely

0:19:00.087 --> 0:19:03.087
<v Speaker 3>that I will do it. Yeah, I've thought it would

0:19:03.087 --> 0:19:06.487
<v Speaker 3>be nice to not have that. I've thought about doing

0:19:06.607 --> 0:19:12.087
<v Speaker 3>the that freezing off of my stomach. I have definitely

0:19:12.127 --> 0:19:14.887
<v Speaker 3>thought about that. Again, I just I think I have

0:19:14.927 --> 0:19:16.927
<v Speaker 3>a fear of all that sort of stuff, like what

0:19:16.967 --> 0:19:20.167
<v Speaker 3>if something goes wrong? Yeah, So they're the two things

0:19:20.167 --> 0:19:21.367
<v Speaker 3>I've definitely do.

0:19:21.527 --> 0:19:25.327
<v Speaker 2>You are you a because your skin does look amazing,

0:19:25.367 --> 0:19:27.087
<v Speaker 2>But that's not what we're here to say. We're just

0:19:27.167 --> 0:19:30.887
<v Speaker 2>here to go. But you look great. Serum's potions, like,

0:19:30.967 --> 0:19:33.007
<v Speaker 2>do you put a lot of stock in that stuff?

0:19:33.327 --> 0:19:33.847
<v Speaker 2>Not really.

0:19:34.087 --> 0:19:37.287
<v Speaker 3>I do a little bit for my skin. The simpler

0:19:37.487 --> 0:19:41.447
<v Speaker 3>the better. I'm a very simple, simple, simple person. For

0:19:41.527 --> 0:19:44.607
<v Speaker 3>the longest time, I just washed my face with water

0:19:45.167 --> 0:19:47.407
<v Speaker 3>and then I did a Jjoba oil and something called

0:19:47.447 --> 0:19:51.807
<v Speaker 3>Egyptian magic. What's Egyptian magic? I found when we lived

0:19:51.847 --> 0:19:55.767
<v Speaker 3>in La. It's just it's a super super super old recipe,

0:19:55.847 --> 0:19:58.847
<v Speaker 3>like just an oil almost so I did oil on oil.

0:19:59.327 --> 0:20:02.407
<v Speaker 3>I have quite dry skin. I don't know. Sometimes the

0:20:02.527 --> 0:20:05.367
<v Speaker 3>serums don't feel like they I don't like them on

0:20:05.447 --> 0:20:11.047
<v Speaker 3>my skin. I don't like a cream moisturizer loving their retreatment. Botanicals,

0:20:11.087 --> 0:20:13.647
<v Speaker 3>you know that one. I'm living in John's brand, loving

0:20:13.687 --> 0:20:16.287
<v Speaker 3>that at the moment. But sometimes I'll just go back

0:20:16.287 --> 0:20:18.167
<v Speaker 3>to Joba oil and water.

0:20:18.367 --> 0:20:22.047
<v Speaker 2>So you've worked out what works for you and you're

0:20:22.167 --> 0:20:25.127
<v Speaker 2>not tempted to do all the fancy procedures.

0:20:25.527 --> 0:20:25.727
<v Speaker 3>No.

0:20:26.047 --> 0:20:27.847
<v Speaker 2>I feel like a lot of the soul searching and

0:20:27.887 --> 0:20:30.967
<v Speaker 2>worrying about that is a bit passe now, right, Like

0:20:31.727 --> 0:20:34.087
<v Speaker 2>my young friends don't worry about.

0:20:33.847 --> 0:20:35.727
<v Speaker 3>It if they want to go and get absolutely not.

0:20:35.767 --> 0:20:38.447
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like that whatever we do to ourselves.

0:20:38.527 --> 0:20:40.487
<v Speaker 2>It has to be so political, like such a big

0:20:40.527 --> 0:20:43.647
<v Speaker 2>because women's bodies always are right. It's like if whatever

0:20:43.727 --> 0:20:45.567
<v Speaker 2>size they are and whatever you decide to do with it,

0:20:45.567 --> 0:20:48.207
<v Speaker 2>it has to mean something, and that.

0:20:48.127 --> 0:20:49.367
<v Speaker 1>Can be really exhausting.

0:20:49.567 --> 0:20:52.967
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, can't it just mean I don't like my friend line?

0:20:53.087 --> 0:20:55.367
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right. I know this is so true because

0:20:55.407 --> 0:20:57.807
<v Speaker 3>my I have a twenty eight to twenty four an

0:20:57.847 --> 0:21:00.207
<v Speaker 3>eighteen year old, and they were sitting there the other

0:21:00.247 --> 0:21:02.967
<v Speaker 3>day at lunch figuring out what procedure they would have

0:21:03.047 --> 0:21:04.807
<v Speaker 3>if they were going to have a procedure, Like it

0:21:04.847 --> 0:21:07.967
<v Speaker 3>was like what would we order for lunch? And including

0:21:08.007 --> 0:21:10.767
<v Speaker 3>my son, who's already figured out I would do this,

0:21:10.847 --> 0:21:12.767
<v Speaker 3>and I would do that, and I do that, the

0:21:12.927 --> 0:21:14.567
<v Speaker 3>twenty eight say, oh what I would do this to

0:21:14.647 --> 0:21:16.927
<v Speaker 3>my lips? And I would do I mean that was

0:21:16.967 --> 0:21:19.527
<v Speaker 3>something I never would have considered at that age.

0:21:19.727 --> 0:21:21.687
<v Speaker 2>And also as a parent, we're like.

0:21:21.847 --> 0:21:22.967
<v Speaker 1>But you're perfect.

0:21:23.047 --> 0:21:25.847
<v Speaker 2>Of course, they don't mess with your face.

0:21:26.167 --> 0:21:30.207
<v Speaker 3>I know you dare start on that train. Yeah, but

0:21:30.247 --> 0:21:32.327
<v Speaker 3>that's so true. It's just an option. It's a health

0:21:32.327 --> 0:21:35.007
<v Speaker 3>care option or a self care option. It's whereas Yeah,

0:21:35.047 --> 0:21:37.367
<v Speaker 3>for me, I feel like it's a dramatic thing to

0:21:37.487 --> 0:21:41.327
<v Speaker 3>go and do, And yeah, am I betraying my womanhood

0:21:41.367 --> 0:21:45.247
<v Speaker 3>for like changing my face somehow? Like and all those

0:21:45.287 --> 0:21:47.367
<v Speaker 3>women that didn't do it. You know, we've got to

0:21:47.407 --> 0:21:50.527
<v Speaker 3>be strong. It's like, no, you don't. You just said

0:21:50.567 --> 0:21:52.927
<v Speaker 3>you just do what you do and if it makes

0:21:52.967 --> 0:21:53.607
<v Speaker 3>you feel good.

0:21:54.687 --> 0:21:57.407
<v Speaker 2>My main deterrent actually is just time. Is I think

0:21:57.967 --> 0:22:01.047
<v Speaker 2>I can barely get my haircut, you know what I mean? Yeah,

0:22:01.287 --> 0:22:03.407
<v Speaker 2>I can barely get my haircut. Am I going to

0:22:03.487 --> 0:22:08.687
<v Speaker 2>start a complicated dermatological procedures where I have to be

0:22:08.807 --> 0:22:10.607
<v Speaker 2>there every six weeks for I don't know.

0:22:11.487 --> 0:22:13.807
<v Speaker 3>And your face peels off for a bit? Again? I

0:22:13.847 --> 0:22:16.967
<v Speaker 3>have friends that do a lot of those face peels,

0:22:16.967 --> 0:22:20.087
<v Speaker 3>and stuff in their skin is actually fantastic, So I

0:22:20.127 --> 0:22:21.607
<v Speaker 3>know a lot of the stuff does work.

0:22:21.847 --> 0:22:23.607
<v Speaker 2>There's a gap in our minds between what we think

0:22:23.647 --> 0:22:25.607
<v Speaker 2>we look like and what we look like that sometimes

0:22:25.607 --> 0:22:29.127
<v Speaker 2>we catch now. And maybe this is generational because maybe

0:22:29.167 --> 0:22:31.527
<v Speaker 2>young people don't have that gap so much because they've

0:22:31.567 --> 0:22:34.167
<v Speaker 2>grown up with the front facing phone, so they've looked

0:22:34.167 --> 0:22:36.887
<v Speaker 2>at their faces a lot, and so sometimes when that

0:22:36.967 --> 0:22:39.367
<v Speaker 2>catches you and you get that glimpse a bit like

0:22:39.407 --> 0:22:44.127
<v Speaker 2>your mom's body in the bath. Yeah yeah, you're like, oh,

0:22:44.287 --> 0:22:46.767
<v Speaker 2>and that's back to that or my outside much my

0:22:46.847 --> 0:22:49.127
<v Speaker 2>insides bit and that's why it gets complex.

0:22:49.247 --> 0:22:51.767
<v Speaker 3>And do you think that, like the face filters are

0:22:51.967 --> 0:22:55.687
<v Speaker 3>to blame for a rise in plastic surgery. I mean,

0:22:55.727 --> 0:22:58.407
<v Speaker 3>I know people have said that before the those face filters,

0:22:58.407 --> 0:23:00.047
<v Speaker 3>it's a smoothie skin out that trim.

0:23:00.047 --> 0:23:01.087
<v Speaker 1>You knows that well.

0:23:01.087 --> 0:23:03.087
<v Speaker 2>It used to be very difficult for us to imagine

0:23:03.127 --> 0:23:05.687
<v Speaker 2>what we look like in different ways. Yeah right, I've

0:23:05.727 --> 0:23:07.487
<v Speaker 2>probably got quite a deep and it sounds like maybe

0:23:07.487 --> 0:23:09.887
<v Speaker 2>you do a little bit a deep seed that I

0:23:09.927 --> 0:23:13.127
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't care so much. I mean, obviously don't care that

0:23:13.167 --> 0:23:15.607
<v Speaker 2>much or I would look better, but you know, I

0:23:15.607 --> 0:23:19.487
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't care so much. But I won't put a picture

0:23:19.487 --> 0:23:22.007
<v Speaker 2>of myself up on my Instagram feed if I think

0:23:22.007 --> 0:23:24.407
<v Speaker 2>I look awful, I won't filter it, but I'll choose

0:23:24.447 --> 0:23:27.647
<v Speaker 2>a flattering angle. I'll take three or four pictures to

0:23:27.727 --> 0:23:29.887
<v Speaker 2>choose the one that I this is how I want

0:23:29.927 --> 0:23:34.847
<v Speaker 2>to present myself. So we're all on a scale of

0:23:34.887 --> 0:23:39.247
<v Speaker 2>that representation, aren't we. And then if I see myself

0:23:39.247 --> 0:23:41.367
<v Speaker 2>and I have been filtered, and I go, oh wow,

0:23:42.527 --> 0:23:47.327
<v Speaker 2>I can understand how seductive it is. Yeah, absolutely, and

0:23:47.527 --> 0:23:49.847
<v Speaker 2>I see that my daughter who when she does it,

0:23:49.887 --> 0:23:51.767
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's a bit beyond this now. But those

0:23:51.767 --> 0:23:54.727
<v Speaker 2>snapchat filters that are really cool, that just make your

0:23:54.727 --> 0:23:58.047
<v Speaker 2>eyes that little bit bigger, and your skin a little

0:23:58.047 --> 0:24:01.407
<v Speaker 2>bit whiter, which is problematic in its own way, and

0:24:01.447 --> 0:24:03.527
<v Speaker 2>your lip's a little bit fuller, and she suddenly just

0:24:03.607 --> 0:24:07.007
<v Speaker 2>looks kind of like the models used to sell us

0:24:07.047 --> 0:24:07.927
<v Speaker 2>bags or your fault.

0:24:08.207 --> 0:24:10.087
<v Speaker 3>I know it's true.

0:24:10.607 --> 0:24:13.567
<v Speaker 2>I'm part of the problem, Holly, But I have a friend.

0:24:13.647 --> 0:24:15.847
<v Speaker 2>We digress, well, we'll come back to the main point.

0:24:15.887 --> 0:24:18.167
<v Speaker 2>But I have a friend. She's a performer and she

0:24:18.207 --> 0:24:20.687
<v Speaker 2>does quite a lot of TV in Asia, and they

0:24:20.927 --> 0:24:25.047
<v Speaker 2>live filter faces now, so when she is on the

0:24:25.127 --> 0:24:29.127
<v Speaker 2>TV there, she has had a filter put over her,

0:24:29.847 --> 0:24:34.807
<v Speaker 2>and she says, it's amazing. You sit backstage and artists

0:24:34.807 --> 0:24:36.887
<v Speaker 2>come off stage and they look so different to what

0:24:36.927 --> 0:24:38.047
<v Speaker 2>you've just seen on the screen.

0:24:38.047 --> 0:24:40.327
<v Speaker 3>While they've do they still do a full face of

0:24:40.367 --> 0:24:42.847
<v Speaker 3>makeup or do they make as well, and then they

0:24:42.887 --> 0:24:45.367
<v Speaker 3>rely somewhat on the filter. That wow.

0:24:45.487 --> 0:24:48.007
<v Speaker 2>So if you think about when you were modeling, I'm

0:24:48.007 --> 0:24:49.287
<v Speaker 2>sure sometimes you were airbrushed.

0:24:49.287 --> 0:24:49.647
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you.

0:24:49.607 --> 0:24:53.167
<v Speaker 2>Didn't need it, of course, definitelysh you were airbrushed, and

0:24:53.407 --> 0:24:55.327
<v Speaker 2>you know, we all did whatever way you needed to

0:24:55.327 --> 0:24:58.487
<v Speaker 2>be whittled. And now that can happen in real time,

0:24:59.287 --> 0:25:02.927
<v Speaker 2>it does make you wonder what it's going to do

0:25:03.007 --> 0:25:05.967
<v Speaker 2>to our perception of beauty. Yes, if you never have

0:25:06.087 --> 0:25:09.247
<v Speaker 2>to even gaze upon a less than perfect face.

0:25:09.527 --> 0:25:12.727
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's exactly right, and it's a bit scary.

0:25:12.887 --> 0:25:15.447
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:16.047 --> 0:25:19.487
<v Speaker 2>After the break, Ali shares more about her own struggle

0:25:19.527 --> 0:25:21.687
<v Speaker 2>with body image as a young model and how she

0:25:21.807 --> 0:25:24.807
<v Speaker 2>feels about her body. Now we talk about body image

0:25:24.807 --> 0:25:30.727
<v Speaker 2>and how we're teaching young women to see beauty in

0:25:30.807 --> 0:25:33.207
<v Speaker 2>queen menopause and on no Filter with me, you wrote

0:25:33.207 --> 0:25:36.007
<v Speaker 2>really honestly and beautifully about grappling with changing shape. We've

0:25:36.007 --> 0:25:38.447
<v Speaker 2>touched on this a little bit already, and you wrote,

0:25:38.527 --> 0:25:40.807
<v Speaker 2>I know I'm feeling older than ever, my body shaping

0:25:40.807 --> 0:25:43.487
<v Speaker 2>itself into an actual potato. I really related to that.

0:25:44.087 --> 0:25:46.647
<v Speaker 2>What if this potato shape is permanent? What if this

0:25:46.767 --> 0:25:49.167
<v Speaker 2>is my final resting body shape? Can I love this

0:25:49.287 --> 0:25:51.167
<v Speaker 2>shape just as it is? How do I love my

0:25:51.247 --> 0:25:53.567
<v Speaker 2>body when I hold the comparison to my twenty one

0:25:53.647 --> 0:25:57.527
<v Speaker 2>year old self? Now, wait, is a tricky thing to

0:25:57.607 --> 0:26:01.247
<v Speaker 2>talk about it's taboo. Younger women tell me all the

0:26:01.327 --> 0:26:05.287
<v Speaker 2>time that we shouldn't talk about it at all, But

0:26:05.527 --> 0:26:09.207
<v Speaker 2>most older women I know have some kind of complex

0:26:09.367 --> 0:26:11.247
<v Speaker 2>relationship with their weight, and they do want to talk

0:26:11.287 --> 0:26:14.047
<v Speaker 2>about it. Yeah, and I know that you have and

0:26:14.167 --> 0:26:16.647
<v Speaker 2>do where do you stand on that idea of that

0:26:16.687 --> 0:26:19.447
<v Speaker 2>we should just try and make it less important by

0:26:19.487 --> 0:26:20.407
<v Speaker 2>not focusing on it.

0:26:20.927 --> 0:26:23.527
<v Speaker 3>I would love women to not focus on their weight.

0:26:23.807 --> 0:26:27.807
<v Speaker 3>I would just love women to feel strong and healthy.

0:26:28.007 --> 0:26:31.767
<v Speaker 3>They would be my two things that women focused on

0:26:32.087 --> 0:26:35.247
<v Speaker 3>out of anything, that they are healthy and strong, because

0:26:35.287 --> 0:26:38.247
<v Speaker 3>I think I know that, certainly knowing it enough now

0:26:38.567 --> 0:26:42.487
<v Speaker 3>and speaking to doctors and understanding about how important strength

0:26:42.607 --> 0:26:45.927
<v Speaker 3>is after menopause and what menopause does to your bones

0:26:45.967 --> 0:26:49.487
<v Speaker 3>and once the estrogen drops, and the most important thing

0:26:49.527 --> 0:26:52.367
<v Speaker 3>you can do for yourself is to be strong. So

0:26:52.487 --> 0:26:54.847
<v Speaker 3>I would love for women to feel that that was

0:26:54.927 --> 0:26:57.087
<v Speaker 3>their goal and healthy.

0:26:57.567 --> 0:27:00.887
<v Speaker 2>From the days when you wrote those words, for example,

0:27:00.967 --> 0:27:02.487
<v Speaker 2>to where you are now and you said at the

0:27:02.527 --> 0:27:04.767
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the show that you feel now like I

0:27:04.807 --> 0:27:07.527
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't change it, is that because you've gone through this

0:27:08.247 --> 0:27:11.687
<v Speaker 2>understanding this edge about what happens to your body, and

0:27:11.727 --> 0:27:14.727
<v Speaker 2>so now you've found the ways to make yourself feel stronger, Like,

0:27:14.807 --> 0:27:17.007
<v Speaker 2>do you relate to this person who's worried about being

0:27:17.047 --> 0:27:17.807
<v Speaker 2>potato shan oh?

0:27:17.847 --> 0:27:20.687
<v Speaker 3>God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's still definitely with me.

0:27:21.047 --> 0:27:26.407
<v Speaker 3>I just don't feel as attached to wanting to be

0:27:26.527 --> 0:27:28.807
<v Speaker 3>the shape I was when I was twenty one. I

0:27:28.887 --> 0:27:32.287
<v Speaker 3>feel like I've now lived in this shaped body long

0:27:32.407 --> 0:27:35.847
<v Speaker 3>enough to go. I don't think this we're going back.

0:27:37.647 --> 0:27:38.807
<v Speaker 3>I think this might be it.

0:27:39.007 --> 0:27:41.127
<v Speaker 2>So it's more maybe about grappling with the chain.

0:27:41.447 --> 0:27:44.007
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And if this is it, are you going to

0:27:44.287 --> 0:27:47.007
<v Speaker 3>talk crap to yourself for the rest of your life

0:27:47.127 --> 0:27:48.727
<v Speaker 3>or are you just going to be okay with what

0:27:48.807 --> 0:27:52.727
<v Speaker 3>you've got now? And that's something that I constantly sort

0:27:52.767 --> 0:27:56.487
<v Speaker 3>of work with, like just going, everything's working, Alli, you

0:27:56.527 --> 0:28:00.047
<v Speaker 3>don't have cancer, you don't have some other disease. You've

0:28:00.087 --> 0:28:03.327
<v Speaker 3>got all your limbs and fingers, your body is working.

0:28:03.527 --> 0:28:06.447
<v Speaker 3>Let's just work on that. I'd tell you something that's

0:28:06.567 --> 0:28:10.927
<v Speaker 3>really actually changed my mind is I don't know where.

0:28:10.687 --> 0:28:11.087
<v Speaker 2>I saw it.

0:28:11.007 --> 0:28:14.687
<v Speaker 3>It was some ad and it was a gentleman, Yeah,

0:28:14.767 --> 0:28:17.087
<v Speaker 3>I guess my age sort of thing, and he said,

0:28:17.127 --> 0:28:19.607
<v Speaker 3>I really want to be strong and healthy for my grandkids,

0:28:19.807 --> 0:28:22.887
<v Speaker 3>And I've got that in my mind now, and I

0:28:22.887 --> 0:28:25.367
<v Speaker 3>don't want to be a size seven. I mean to

0:28:25.407 --> 0:28:28.847
<v Speaker 3>size eight or six for my grandkids. I want to

0:28:28.847 --> 0:28:30.607
<v Speaker 3>be strong, I want to be healthy. I want to

0:28:30.607 --> 0:28:31.967
<v Speaker 3>be able to lift them up. And I want to

0:28:32.007 --> 0:28:33.727
<v Speaker 3>be running on the beach with them. I want to

0:28:33.727 --> 0:28:37.047
<v Speaker 3>be hiking with them. That's kind of where I've shifted

0:28:37.127 --> 0:28:40.167
<v Speaker 3>myself now, like what do I want my future self

0:28:40.207 --> 0:28:43.647
<v Speaker 3>to be? And it's not like bikini ready for the summer.

0:28:43.887 --> 0:28:47.647
<v Speaker 3>It's fit and feeling good and that's helpful.

0:28:47.887 --> 0:28:50.367
<v Speaker 2>Do you think, as my young colleagues tell me all

0:28:50.367 --> 0:28:54.727
<v Speaker 2>the time that our generation has particularly fucked up relationship

0:28:54.727 --> 0:28:58.927
<v Speaker 2>with our bodies. They think that we were very doused

0:28:58.967 --> 0:29:00.407
<v Speaker 2>in toxic diet culture.

0:29:00.727 --> 0:29:03.767
<v Speaker 3>Do the younger colleagues feel like that they're not doused

0:29:03.807 --> 0:29:04.007
<v Speaker 3>in it?

0:29:04.487 --> 0:29:06.607
<v Speaker 2>Jesse, my co host on out Loud, who's in her

0:29:06.687 --> 0:29:11.287
<v Speaker 2>thirties early thirties, she always says that Gen X we

0:29:12.007 --> 0:29:14.247
<v Speaker 2>are very hard on ourselves about our bodies, and she

0:29:14.327 --> 0:29:16.767
<v Speaker 2>thinks it is because we grew up in toxic diet culture,

0:29:17.407 --> 0:29:20.527
<v Speaker 2>which I think we did. Yeah, And it was also

0:29:20.767 --> 0:29:23.927
<v Speaker 2>so normal when we were young that there would be

0:29:24.007 --> 0:29:26.447
<v Speaker 2>ads on the TV telling you how to lose weight fast.

0:29:26.487 --> 0:29:28.807
<v Speaker 2>That every magazine and I worked in magazines, and I mean,

0:29:28.847 --> 0:29:31.487
<v Speaker 2>so did you in a different way, was like lose

0:29:31.487 --> 0:29:33.567
<v Speaker 2>five kilos fast. It was all out there, It was

0:29:33.607 --> 0:29:36.847
<v Speaker 2>all explicit. It was you need to lose weight. Was

0:29:36.927 --> 0:29:41.007
<v Speaker 2>kind of our constant track in our heads. And what

0:29:41.087 --> 0:29:42.927
<v Speaker 2>I wonder, and this is what I argue with Jesse

0:29:43.007 --> 0:29:45.127
<v Speaker 2>about a bit now, is I wonder if that track's

0:29:45.167 --> 0:29:50.527
<v Speaker 2>still there because on Instagram, certainly everybody is thin. TikTok,

0:29:50.647 --> 0:29:53.647
<v Speaker 2>everybody is thin. That we're still presenting all that. But

0:29:53.727 --> 0:29:55.527
<v Speaker 2>now that you're not allowed to say it out loud,

0:29:55.807 --> 0:29:58.007
<v Speaker 2>does that make it better or worse? Do you know

0:29:58.047 --> 0:29:58.487
<v Speaker 2>what I mean?

0:29:58.647 --> 0:30:02.447
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't see anything's changed. I mean, I maybe

0:30:02.487 --> 0:30:05.087
<v Speaker 3>I'm wrong. I'm not, you know, twenty one or thirty

0:30:05.167 --> 0:30:07.847
<v Speaker 3>or whatever. But you know, now we've got talk of

0:30:07.967 --> 0:30:11.567
<v Speaker 3>just taking a a zepic and losing weight, and isn't

0:30:11.567 --> 0:30:14.047
<v Speaker 3>this great? It's the fast way to lose weight. Like,

0:30:14.087 --> 0:30:17.847
<v Speaker 3>we've still got that talk. That's I hear a lot.

0:30:18.447 --> 0:30:21.767
<v Speaker 3>You know, my twenty eight year old still is concerned

0:30:21.807 --> 0:30:24.607
<v Speaker 3>if she puts on weight. My eighteen year old is

0:30:24.647 --> 0:30:26.647
<v Speaker 3>concerned if she loses too much weight.

0:30:26.807 --> 0:30:28.447
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know.

0:30:28.727 --> 0:30:32.687
<v Speaker 3>I haven't seen a change. I think there's still maybe

0:30:32.767 --> 0:30:38.287
<v Speaker 3>there's a slight better look in we're a little bit

0:30:38.327 --> 0:30:42.327
<v Speaker 3>more diverse in who we see on TV now, but

0:30:42.367 --> 0:30:45.647
<v Speaker 3>it's still described as isn't it amazing we've put like

0:30:45.687 --> 0:30:48.487
<v Speaker 3>a size twenty woman on a screen, Like it's still

0:30:48.487 --> 0:30:51.727
<v Speaker 3>like a thing that's like exciting and aren't we incredibly

0:30:51.887 --> 0:30:55.727
<v Speaker 3>amazing that we've decided to cast this person where I

0:30:55.727 --> 0:30:58.887
<v Speaker 3>don't know, it's still not like it's just average sizes

0:30:58.967 --> 0:31:02.567
<v Speaker 3>doing average things, seeing normal people on TV that are

0:31:02.567 --> 0:31:05.647
<v Speaker 3>bigger and smaller and different colors. And it's getting there,

0:31:05.767 --> 0:31:09.567
<v Speaker 3>though I don't think the diet culture has changed. I

0:31:09.567 --> 0:31:11.447
<v Speaker 3>would love it too, but I don't think it has.

0:31:11.487 --> 0:31:12.447
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it has really.

0:31:12.487 --> 0:31:15.927
<v Speaker 2>I just think maybe it's pushed underground a bit, like

0:31:15.967 --> 0:31:19.407
<v Speaker 2>it would be very uncool in my office where I work,

0:31:19.447 --> 0:31:22.607
<v Speaker 2>that anyone would ever say that anybody, you've lost weight,

0:31:22.727 --> 0:31:24.807
<v Speaker 2>you look great, you know, like whereas we used to

0:31:24.887 --> 0:31:27.167
<v Speaker 2>say that to each other all the time, and my

0:31:27.287 --> 0:31:29.927
<v Speaker 2>girlfriends who are a similar age to me still do

0:31:30.007 --> 0:31:33.767
<v Speaker 2>say that absolutely, and that wouldn't be okay to say.

0:31:33.807 --> 0:31:37.047
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't be okay to sit down at brunch and go,

0:31:37.327 --> 0:31:40.487
<v Speaker 2>I'm not eating carps, even though you might not be

0:31:40.607 --> 0:31:43.087
<v Speaker 2>eating cars do you know what I mean? Right?

0:31:44.087 --> 0:31:48.607
<v Speaker 3>But are they still talking behind other women's backs and going,

0:31:48.647 --> 0:31:50.567
<v Speaker 3>oh my god, she's put on a lot of weight.

0:31:51.687 --> 0:31:54.487
<v Speaker 2>Probably are, I don't know. It's interesting talking about daughters

0:31:54.527 --> 0:31:58.207
<v Speaker 2>is interesting here because my daughter's fourteen. I had my

0:31:58.287 --> 0:32:00.687
<v Speaker 2>kids much later than you were a similar age, so

0:32:00.727 --> 0:32:04.287
<v Speaker 2>you're at a different phase. But she is very you

0:32:04.327 --> 0:32:07.647
<v Speaker 2>can see, you can almost watch their brains switch on

0:32:07.887 --> 0:32:11.087
<v Speaker 2>about it matters a great deal about what I look

0:32:11.207 --> 0:32:14.127
<v Speaker 2>like and what size my body is and my messaging

0:32:14.167 --> 0:32:16.127
<v Speaker 2>to her, and I sometimes worry that I fucked it,

0:32:16.167 --> 0:32:17.967
<v Speaker 2>so you have to tell me if that's true. When

0:32:17.967 --> 0:32:19.607
<v Speaker 2>she was little, I was always like, it doesn't matter

0:32:19.607 --> 0:32:21.407
<v Speaker 2>at all, doesn't matter at all what you look like.

0:32:21.567 --> 0:32:24.847
<v Speaker 2>Bodies are for being strong and doing things. Everybody's beautiful,

0:32:24.887 --> 0:32:27.447
<v Speaker 2>like all of that's yeah, right, And then I have

0:32:27.527 --> 0:32:29.727
<v Speaker 2>a very clear memory of her. Maybe it was just

0:32:29.767 --> 0:32:32.047
<v Speaker 2>when she went to high school, just before high school,

0:32:32.167 --> 0:32:35.087
<v Speaker 2>going for a walk with her and me saying to her,

0:32:35.207 --> 0:32:37.247
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter what you look like, and her saying like

0:32:37.327 --> 0:32:38.527
<v Speaker 2>almost sheepishly.

0:32:38.167 --> 0:32:39.367
<v Speaker 1>Mom, it really matters.

0:32:39.687 --> 0:32:42.607
<v Speaker 2>Everybody talks about it all the time. You know that person,

0:32:42.967 --> 0:32:45.447
<v Speaker 2>she could see the split, she could see my lie

0:32:45.847 --> 0:32:49.287
<v Speaker 2>in a way. How have you dealt with your daughters

0:32:49.287 --> 0:32:50.887
<v Speaker 2>and talking about beauty and body?

0:32:51.007 --> 0:32:54.687
<v Speaker 3>You know, it was something that I was hyper aware of,

0:32:54.847 --> 0:32:58.327
<v Speaker 3>hyper aware of, and I think I fucked it, and

0:32:58.407 --> 0:33:00.327
<v Speaker 3>I know I fucked it, actually, And the way I

0:33:00.447 --> 0:33:06.327
<v Speaker 3>fucked it was I would say outwardly unkind things about

0:33:06.327 --> 0:33:10.727
<v Speaker 3>my appearance in front of my children. All mess that

0:33:10.847 --> 0:33:14.007
<v Speaker 3>up big time. How can I turn to them and say,

0:33:14.127 --> 0:33:17.847
<v Speaker 3>everybody's beautiful, you're perfect, and look in the mirror and go,

0:33:18.047 --> 0:33:21.847
<v Speaker 3>oh god, this doesn't fit. I've put on so much weight.

0:33:21.927 --> 0:33:26.407
<v Speaker 3>I can't wear this dress anymore. I remember my youngest

0:33:26.447 --> 0:33:29.047
<v Speaker 3>at one point saying, I hate it when you talk

0:33:29.087 --> 0:33:30.767
<v Speaker 3>to yourself like that.

0:33:30.767 --> 0:33:31.607
<v Speaker 1>That's so good.

0:33:31.727 --> 0:33:34.207
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's awful that you did, but it's good

0:33:34.247 --> 0:33:36.927
<v Speaker 2>that she said that. That was the first.

0:33:36.487 --> 0:33:39.527
<v Speaker 3>Thing that I remember going, that's got to be the

0:33:39.607 --> 0:33:43.047
<v Speaker 3>last time. If you're going to say it, say internally, like,

0:33:43.287 --> 0:33:47.007
<v Speaker 3>do not speak it out loud. Actually, it was, honestly

0:33:47.007 --> 0:33:50.727
<v Speaker 3>one of the first things that started changing my judgment

0:33:50.767 --> 0:33:53.607
<v Speaker 3>of myself. Just stop saying it out loud, like one step,

0:33:54.327 --> 0:33:56.647
<v Speaker 3>don't say it out loud, because I think it has

0:33:56.687 --> 0:33:59.127
<v Speaker 3>more power if you say it out loud, and especially

0:33:59.167 --> 0:34:02.567
<v Speaker 3>in a room full of people or in front of people. Plus,

0:34:02.607 --> 0:34:04.967
<v Speaker 3>I also had that thing, and I talk a little

0:34:05.007 --> 0:34:07.487
<v Speaker 3>bit about that in the book too, is that I

0:34:07.567 --> 0:34:12.527
<v Speaker 3>always felt nervous around women. It was so weird. I

0:34:12.567 --> 0:34:15.447
<v Speaker 3>know it sounds crazy, but I felt nervous around women

0:34:15.967 --> 0:34:18.807
<v Speaker 3>being a model, that they would think I was up

0:34:18.847 --> 0:34:21.967
<v Speaker 3>myself for being a model. So the first thing I

0:34:21.967 --> 0:34:24.287
<v Speaker 3>always did was start to put myself down. It was

0:34:24.327 --> 0:34:26.527
<v Speaker 3>the first thing I would say, whether it was I'm

0:34:26.567 --> 0:34:30.207
<v Speaker 3>not very smart, or yeah, I'm so flat chested, or

0:34:30.247 --> 0:34:33.327
<v Speaker 3>I've got this, I've got that, because I thought that

0:34:33.487 --> 0:34:35.327
<v Speaker 3>was the way I'm going to get liked. I'm not

0:34:35.367 --> 0:34:38.407
<v Speaker 3>going to be liked for being pretty amongst other women,

0:34:38.887 --> 0:34:42.487
<v Speaker 3>but if I put myself below you, then we might

0:34:42.527 --> 0:34:45.287
<v Speaker 3>be able to have a connection. Eh, that doesn't really work.

0:34:45.407 --> 0:34:47.087
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, did that work?

0:34:47.247 --> 0:34:49.607
<v Speaker 3>No, No, not at all. And that's one of the

0:34:49.647 --> 0:34:53.087
<v Speaker 3>things that modeling is a negative. For modeling, that was

0:34:53.087 --> 0:34:55.327
<v Speaker 3>one of the things I had to really undo and

0:34:55.367 --> 0:34:58.607
<v Speaker 3>it was really you know, hearing my daughter's going I

0:34:58.727 --> 0:35:01.567
<v Speaker 3>can't stand it when you say how mean you are

0:35:01.807 --> 0:35:02.487
<v Speaker 3>to yourself.

0:35:02.807 --> 0:35:05.527
<v Speaker 2>That's amazing because one of the things that's very relatable

0:35:05.567 --> 0:35:08.127
<v Speaker 2>about that I tried to never talk about body or

0:35:08.167 --> 0:35:11.087
<v Speaker 2>weight in front of my ca kids, but the number

0:35:11.087 --> 0:35:12.927
<v Speaker 2>of times that they would have seen me glance in

0:35:12.967 --> 0:35:15.487
<v Speaker 2>a mirror and go ough yeah. And the idea of

0:35:15.567 --> 0:35:18.607
<v Speaker 2>us looking at ourselves and going and then catching myself

0:35:18.607 --> 0:35:25.167
<v Speaker 2>and going, oh throats. When you actually take that out

0:35:25.207 --> 0:35:27.007
<v Speaker 2>of context and look at it from a helicopter, you're like,

0:35:27.047 --> 0:35:29.367
<v Speaker 2>how awful that we do that to ourselves, no matter

0:35:29.407 --> 0:35:31.727
<v Speaker 2>what we look like, whether we are models, whether we're not.

0:35:32.167 --> 0:35:36.887
<v Speaker 2>You've felt instinctively, I've got to pull myself back, and

0:35:36.887 --> 0:35:38.807
<v Speaker 2>then you probably began to believe the script. You were

0:35:38.847 --> 0:35:41.207
<v Speaker 2>telling yourself that you are smart and you weren't this,

0:35:41.367 --> 0:35:41.967
<v Speaker 2>and you weren't that.

0:35:42.167 --> 0:35:44.447
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I mean being a model, you're not booked

0:35:44.447 --> 0:35:46.367
<v Speaker 3>for your brains. You're not booked for how you can

0:35:46.447 --> 0:35:50.287
<v Speaker 3>understand this topic, or you're eloquent. It's like smile and

0:35:50.367 --> 0:35:53.927
<v Speaker 3>look pretty, and that was it. So and that's what

0:35:53.967 --> 0:35:58.247
<v Speaker 3>I became famous for. So it's taken me years to

0:35:58.327 --> 0:36:00.527
<v Speaker 3>get to a point where I felt like I had

0:36:00.727 --> 0:36:03.687
<v Speaker 3>something to say and someone might find it helpful or interesting,

0:36:04.047 --> 0:36:07.247
<v Speaker 3>you know. So, yeah, that was a long piece to

0:36:07.367 --> 0:36:08.287
<v Speaker 3>undo as well.

0:36:08.727 --> 0:36:11.007
<v Speaker 2>I always though that, even though, as you say, you're

0:36:11.007 --> 0:36:15.407
<v Speaker 2>not booked for being pretty, models probably have a different

0:36:15.447 --> 0:36:19.767
<v Speaker 2>relationship with criticism because you also get a lot more

0:36:19.767 --> 0:36:22.807
<v Speaker 2>of that, probably than your average person. I was thinking

0:36:22.807 --> 0:36:26.807
<v Speaker 2>about recently. I could probably tell you specifically some times

0:36:26.807 --> 0:36:28.927
<v Speaker 2>that people have commented on my appearance and it would

0:36:28.927 --> 0:36:31.447
<v Speaker 2>have really hurt my Yeah right, I remember a time

0:36:31.487 --> 0:36:34.967
<v Speaker 2>when my mom years ago commented on my weight. I

0:36:35.007 --> 0:36:37.327
<v Speaker 2>could still remember like what I was looking at out

0:36:37.327 --> 0:36:39.607
<v Speaker 2>of the window and what the days smelt like and

0:36:39.607 --> 0:36:42.047
<v Speaker 2>all those things, because it really hurt me. But being

0:36:42.047 --> 0:36:44.567
<v Speaker 2>a teenage model, you probably going to castings where people

0:36:44.567 --> 0:36:47.407
<v Speaker 2>were like too short, too tall, too blond, to this,

0:36:47.607 --> 0:36:50.767
<v Speaker 2>to that too, Like so what does that do? Do

0:36:50.807 --> 0:36:53.607
<v Speaker 2>you become better at handling it or do you just

0:36:54.167 --> 0:36:54.927
<v Speaker 2>hate yourself?

0:36:56.967 --> 0:36:59.487
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a little bit of both actually, But yeah,

0:36:59.527 --> 0:37:02.927
<v Speaker 3>that's a very very good point, because that's the thing.

0:37:02.967 --> 0:37:05.767
<v Speaker 3>You can be standing there and you can have six

0:37:05.847 --> 0:37:11.287
<v Speaker 3>people who are looking at you like a painting, going yeah, look,

0:37:11.327 --> 0:37:13.687
<v Speaker 3>she's got too many moles on that side of her back.

0:37:13.727 --> 0:37:15.967
<v Speaker 3>Can we like cover those up? Cover those up? Like

0:37:16.007 --> 0:37:19.087
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't look good? Yeah, like boobs are really small,

0:37:19.127 --> 0:37:21.567
<v Speaker 3>Like give us something more. Oh, Ali, you just need

0:37:21.607 --> 0:37:24.007
<v Speaker 3>to stand up a bit because when you slouch, like

0:37:24.047 --> 0:37:28.647
<v Speaker 3>your belly pokes out, you know. I mean, it's just like, okay,

0:37:28.687 --> 0:37:30.687
<v Speaker 3>what do I do? How do I eat? And you know,

0:37:30.767 --> 0:37:33.647
<v Speaker 3>suck in, suck in now, And of course you get

0:37:33.647 --> 0:37:35.887
<v Speaker 3>the oh you look gorgeous and blah blah blah blah blah.

0:37:35.967 --> 0:37:38.167
<v Speaker 3>But of course it's almost like you're waiting for the

0:37:38.167 --> 0:37:41.487
<v Speaker 3>criticism to go. Okay, is there a butt in there?

0:37:41.647 --> 0:37:43.527
<v Speaker 3>Is there a butt your hair? Or but this or

0:37:43.607 --> 0:37:46.767
<v Speaker 3>but that? Or striving to change this or striving to

0:37:46.807 --> 0:37:49.767
<v Speaker 3>get better? And I couldn't change my skin. My skin's

0:37:49.807 --> 0:37:52.167
<v Speaker 3>got a lot of freckles and moles. It was like, okay,

0:37:52.207 --> 0:37:55.807
<v Speaker 3>well I lost that job because I couldn't make that disappear.

0:37:55.927 --> 0:38:00.887
<v Speaker 3>So there's an enormous amount of criticism leveled. I think

0:38:00.887 --> 0:38:04.047
<v Speaker 3>it models and people say, well, that's your job, you know,

0:38:04.207 --> 0:38:06.327
<v Speaker 3>you put yourself in that position and that's your job.

0:38:06.367 --> 0:38:08.047
<v Speaker 3>And it's like, yeah, but I didn't sign up for

0:38:08.087 --> 0:38:08.687
<v Speaker 3>the criticism.

0:38:08.807 --> 0:38:11.847
<v Speaker 2>Wow. I was like, can't you just keep it quiet.

0:38:11.927 --> 0:38:13.727
<v Speaker 2>Do I have to hear it like you say it?

0:38:13.727 --> 0:38:14.407
<v Speaker 2>What I've left the.

0:38:14.407 --> 0:38:16.927
<v Speaker 3>Room the first time, because when I grew up in

0:38:16.967 --> 0:38:20.567
<v Speaker 3>an era of you know, you'd do a polaroid, wait

0:38:20.607 --> 0:38:23.287
<v Speaker 3>for the polaroid to dry, and you'd look at it

0:38:23.327 --> 0:38:27.047
<v Speaker 3>and you'd go, okay, let's change the lighting. Then you'd

0:38:27.047 --> 0:38:29.087
<v Speaker 3>shoot and it was film. You had no idea what

0:38:29.127 --> 0:38:31.247
<v Speaker 3>those photographs were going to look like until they turned

0:38:31.287 --> 0:38:35.007
<v Speaker 3>up in a magazine. But here I remember coming back,

0:38:35.047 --> 0:38:37.327
<v Speaker 3>having not modeled for years and years, I came back.

0:38:37.407 --> 0:38:39.647
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what I was shooting. I was shooting something.

0:38:40.407 --> 0:38:44.127
<v Speaker 3>And now you stand there and everyone's looking at the

0:38:44.407 --> 0:38:48.247
<v Speaker 3>computer monitor because every photograph's popping up on the computer monitor.

0:38:48.727 --> 0:38:52.087
<v Speaker 3>And I remember this job that they were airbrushing as

0:38:52.087 --> 0:38:53.767
<v Speaker 3>they went. They were like, yeah, just get rid of

0:38:53.767 --> 0:38:57.487
<v Speaker 3>the lines under the dark circles. We'll just smooth those out.

0:38:57.607 --> 0:39:02.327
<v Speaker 3>So I remember just standing behind the photographer and you know,

0:39:02.407 --> 0:39:07.127
<v Speaker 3>computer operator as they fixed me in real time, this going.

0:39:07.247 --> 0:39:12.607
<v Speaker 2>This is a zum watching yourself change is into this very.

0:39:12.807 --> 0:39:15.447
<v Speaker 3>Yes, just get rid of that. And whenever I do

0:39:15.527 --> 0:39:17.247
<v Speaker 3>a photo shoot for anything, and they said, you want

0:39:17.247 --> 0:39:18.887
<v Speaker 3>to come see the photos on the computer. I said,

0:39:18.887 --> 0:39:21.887
<v Speaker 3>absolutely not, that's good. I never want to see it.

0:39:21.927 --> 0:39:24.287
<v Speaker 3>And apparently a lot of old school models, which I

0:39:24.327 --> 0:39:27.207
<v Speaker 3>consider myself one, don't like to see it. It's too

0:39:27.287 --> 0:39:27.807
<v Speaker 3>off putting.

0:39:29.407 --> 0:39:30.367
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't want to know.

0:39:30.527 --> 0:39:32.807
<v Speaker 3>No, just take a nice photo and print it.

0:39:32.887 --> 0:39:36.207
<v Speaker 2>That's fine. This is interesting about retraining ourselves. You know

0:39:36.247 --> 0:39:38.847
<v Speaker 2>how you were saying that after hearing your daughter say

0:39:38.887 --> 0:39:41.327
<v Speaker 2>to you, I hate hearing you talk like that, and

0:39:41.367 --> 0:39:42.967
<v Speaker 2>you were like, right, I'm going to stop saying that

0:39:42.967 --> 0:39:45.607
<v Speaker 2>out loud. I do that a bit with you know,

0:39:45.647 --> 0:39:47.647
<v Speaker 2>we were talking before about whether or not our generation

0:39:47.967 --> 0:39:51.567
<v Speaker 2>was particularly brutal on ourselves and each other about our bodies.

0:39:52.767 --> 0:39:55.487
<v Speaker 2>I do that in terms of retraining myself not to

0:39:55.567 --> 0:39:58.527
<v Speaker 2>constantly comment on women's appearances. Yes, when they're on TV,

0:39:58.607 --> 0:40:01.327
<v Speaker 2>for example, Yes, you know, so the news readers on TV.

0:40:01.767 --> 0:40:03.647
<v Speaker 2>And if my mom was there, my mom would say

0:40:03.647 --> 0:40:04.207
<v Speaker 2>what hair?

0:40:04.607 --> 0:40:06.527
<v Speaker 1>Oh you know, oh.

0:40:06.407 --> 0:40:08.447
<v Speaker 2>That color does nothing for her. That would be my

0:40:08.527 --> 0:40:09.127
<v Speaker 2>mom for sure.

0:40:09.247 --> 0:40:11.047
<v Speaker 3>My mom would go look at the size of her,

0:40:11.167 --> 0:40:13.327
<v Speaker 3>how did she get to be that big? Yeah, I'm like,

0:40:13.487 --> 0:40:15.127
<v Speaker 3>oh my god.

0:40:16.047 --> 0:40:19.727
<v Speaker 2>So I've trained myself to not comment. Yes, and it

0:40:19.807 --> 0:40:23.207
<v Speaker 2>does change your behavior, ye, Like it really does. So

0:40:23.687 --> 0:40:26.807
<v Speaker 2>do you think that that comment from your daughter, as

0:40:26.847 --> 0:40:28.207
<v Speaker 2>well as a lot of the things you've been through

0:40:28.207 --> 0:40:30.287
<v Speaker 2>in the last few years with menopause and other things,

0:40:30.767 --> 0:40:33.327
<v Speaker 2>have helped you get to this place of not being

0:40:33.367 --> 0:40:36.367
<v Speaker 2>so critical of your body as you literally trained yourself

0:40:36.367 --> 0:40:36.727
<v Speaker 2>out of it.

0:40:36.887 --> 0:40:39.807
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Absolutely, I had to really work at it. It

0:40:39.887 --> 0:40:44.607
<v Speaker 3>wasn't just a natural progression. It was just a big

0:40:44.687 --> 0:40:47.847
<v Speaker 3>awakening around a whole lot of things. And part of

0:40:47.847 --> 0:40:52.847
<v Speaker 3>that was, you know, going through menopause and having a perimenopause,

0:40:52.927 --> 0:40:57.807
<v Speaker 3>having a really rough shot with it, and just thinking

0:40:57.847 --> 0:41:01.927
<v Speaker 3>about how much women go through, Just thinking about how

0:41:02.007 --> 0:41:06.767
<v Speaker 3>much pain we go through physically every month, you know,

0:41:06.847 --> 0:41:12.567
<v Speaker 3>women with endometriosis, women going through labor. It's so much

0:41:12.727 --> 0:41:14.807
<v Speaker 3>that we deal with day in and day out with

0:41:14.927 --> 0:41:18.407
<v Speaker 3>our physical bodies that we put aside, we work through,

0:41:18.447 --> 0:41:21.287
<v Speaker 3>we show up for work still, we show up to school.

0:41:21.727 --> 0:41:25.567
<v Speaker 3>We push through the pain. And then it was like

0:41:25.687 --> 0:41:29.487
<v Speaker 3>and then menopause, I was like, are you kidding me?

0:41:30.567 --> 0:41:31.807
<v Speaker 1>Are you serious?

0:41:32.687 --> 0:41:33.967
<v Speaker 2>This is not right?

0:41:34.567 --> 0:41:38.567
<v Speaker 3>So it was like, Okay, I am not going to

0:41:38.567 --> 0:41:42.807
<v Speaker 3>push through anything anymore. I am not gonna go Okay,

0:41:43.167 --> 0:41:46.407
<v Speaker 3>I'm fine, I'll keep going, I'll keep doing it. I'm

0:41:46.407 --> 0:41:49.007
<v Speaker 3>going to actually really take care of myself for the

0:41:49.047 --> 0:41:52.367
<v Speaker 3>first time. And I've been so mean to my body

0:41:52.447 --> 0:41:56.767
<v Speaker 3>for so long as I think the culture has and

0:41:56.807 --> 0:41:59.727
<v Speaker 3>it's hard not to see yourself the way culture does.

0:42:00.447 --> 0:42:04.167
<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, no, fuck it, Yes, I'm going to

0:42:04.247 --> 0:42:06.687
<v Speaker 3>be really nice to myself now, and I'm going to

0:42:06.727 --> 0:42:09.767
<v Speaker 3>give myself the self care that it's my body's always

0:42:09.807 --> 0:42:13.447
<v Speaker 3>wanted and all the nice words it's always wanted. And

0:42:13.487 --> 0:42:15.847
<v Speaker 3>I'm actually going to start to do it now. And

0:42:15.847 --> 0:42:18.807
<v Speaker 3>that's been, you know, a work in progress, but it's

0:42:18.847 --> 0:42:21.287
<v Speaker 3>actually made a huge, huge difference.

0:42:23.807 --> 0:42:26.247
<v Speaker 2>After the break, Ali and I talk about the falling

0:42:26.287 --> 0:42:30.367
<v Speaker 2>midlife libido and how women can feel sexy and sensual

0:42:30.727 --> 0:42:34.487
<v Speaker 2>when we're always in such a critical conversation with ourselves.

0:42:38.647 --> 0:42:41.487
<v Speaker 2>You also wrote in Queen Menopause a lot about libido

0:42:41.607 --> 0:42:43.287
<v Speaker 2>plunge and not feeling sexual.

0:42:43.407 --> 0:42:43.607
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:42:43.847 --> 0:42:47.767
<v Speaker 2>That is something that is so common for us at

0:42:47.807 --> 0:42:50.847
<v Speaker 2>this time in our life, and that comes, just like

0:42:50.927 --> 0:42:53.527
<v Speaker 2>all the other stuff, with a lot of shame. Yeah. Sure,

0:42:53.887 --> 0:42:55.727
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes it can be to do with hate how

0:42:55.767 --> 0:42:58.367
<v Speaker 2>my body looks. This isn't what sexy is, Yep. This

0:42:58.607 --> 0:43:01.087
<v Speaker 2>is not what anybody has ever ever told me that

0:43:01.207 --> 0:43:05.047
<v Speaker 2>sexy is as well as hormonal plunges that are just meaning.

0:43:05.127 --> 0:43:09.127
<v Speaker 2>I would rather eat a box of hair. After being

0:43:09.367 --> 0:43:11.607
<v Speaker 2>so honest about that, writing so beautifully about it in

0:43:11.647 --> 0:43:14.327
<v Speaker 2>your book, how have you wrangled that?

0:43:14.887 --> 0:43:18.327
<v Speaker 3>I actually think that's probably the last vestige of the

0:43:18.327 --> 0:43:20.927
<v Speaker 3>place that's the most challenging for me. I can do

0:43:20.967 --> 0:43:25.167
<v Speaker 3>it with myself in partnership with Cam and feeling myself

0:43:25.967 --> 0:43:30.807
<v Speaker 3>that sensual, sexy self in this body. Now, that is

0:43:30.887 --> 0:43:35.887
<v Speaker 3>my last challenge to really overcome. He's great. I've actually

0:43:36.087 --> 0:43:38.767
<v Speaker 3>given him dialogue to say I must say. I had

0:43:38.807 --> 0:43:44.207
<v Speaker 3>to do that because he will say things that are like, okay,

0:43:44.607 --> 0:43:46.887
<v Speaker 3>can we just back up on that comment, honey, because

0:43:46.887 --> 0:43:50.487
<v Speaker 3>that does not help me at all. I remember this.

0:43:50.607 --> 0:43:53.047
<v Speaker 3>The one comment was like I was looking in the mirror,

0:43:53.047 --> 0:43:56.287
<v Speaker 3>going I just hate my legs. They look like they've melted.

0:43:56.567 --> 0:44:00.447
<v Speaker 3>I have cankles and like everything's just melted downwards. And

0:44:00.487 --> 0:44:02.727
<v Speaker 3>he was like, oh, honey, he goes, I don't know

0:44:02.767 --> 0:44:05.287
<v Speaker 3>why they look like that. Why do they look like that?

0:44:06.047 --> 0:44:07.767
<v Speaker 3>You know, I mean, do you need I mean, we

0:44:07.767 --> 0:44:11.687
<v Speaker 3>could exercise more. It was like the wrong thing to say.

0:44:12.807 --> 0:44:14.687
<v Speaker 3>He was like, I know you were trying to be caring.

0:44:14.767 --> 0:44:18.247
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, no, no, here's the dialogue. I love your legs,

0:44:18.487 --> 0:44:21.727
<v Speaker 3>I love you, I love everything about you. I love

0:44:21.767 --> 0:44:25.447
<v Speaker 3>the changes. You're amazing. I'll always love you. So now

0:44:25.487 --> 0:44:27.887
<v Speaker 3>I've given him that script. That's what he says everything.

0:44:28.007 --> 0:44:31.847
<v Speaker 2>Yes, sometimes they need a script, and sometimes we need

0:44:31.887 --> 0:44:34.967
<v Speaker 2>a script too, because I think we talked about this

0:44:35.007 --> 0:44:38.087
<v Speaker 2>when we had a conversation for the Very Perry Summit.

0:44:38.807 --> 0:44:42.007
<v Speaker 2>But talking to your partner about how you feel about

0:44:42.007 --> 0:44:45.247
<v Speaker 2>your changing body, especially if you've been together a long time,

0:44:45.887 --> 0:44:49.167
<v Speaker 2>can be really hard because you don't want them to

0:44:49.247 --> 0:44:54.607
<v Speaker 2>stop seeing you. Yes, as an attractive sexual person, but

0:44:54.647 --> 0:44:57.047
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, you don't feel like an attractive

0:44:57.127 --> 0:45:00.207
<v Speaker 2>sexual person. I did an interview with you and Joe

0:45:00.247 --> 0:45:02.207
<v Speaker 2>Elvin about this, and I actually went home after it

0:45:02.287 --> 0:45:05.447
<v Speaker 2>and spoke to my partner because it was like I

0:45:05.487 --> 0:45:07.807
<v Speaker 2>needed a script too of what to say. And I

0:45:07.887 --> 0:45:11.647
<v Speaker 2>wonder if you've got any youthful tips about that, for like,

0:45:11.727 --> 0:45:13.687
<v Speaker 2>the women who were in a place closer to the

0:45:13.767 --> 0:45:15.927
<v Speaker 2>way you were when you were really like, what the

0:45:15.967 --> 0:45:18.247
<v Speaker 2>fuck is happening? Yeah, and you've got to express it

0:45:18.287 --> 0:45:23.087
<v Speaker 2>to the people around you. What was good? What was useful.

0:45:23.487 --> 0:45:27.447
<v Speaker 3>I think sometimes it helps to blow off steam more

0:45:27.527 --> 0:45:30.087
<v Speaker 3>with your girlfriends about how you're feeling. I think there

0:45:30.207 --> 0:45:35.407
<v Speaker 3>is something in that where Cam didn't notice the beard

0:45:35.567 --> 0:45:38.647
<v Speaker 3>I was growing on my gym, He did not notice

0:45:38.647 --> 0:45:42.207
<v Speaker 3>that I was the most observant. They're still seen.

0:45:42.407 --> 0:45:43.287
<v Speaker 2>They don't give a shit.

0:45:43.527 --> 0:45:46.367
<v Speaker 3>They don't give a shit. They just want to know

0:45:46.447 --> 0:45:49.487
<v Speaker 3>that you love them. They want to know that you

0:45:49.607 --> 0:45:53.607
<v Speaker 3>care about them because they're going through changes as well,

0:45:53.727 --> 0:45:57.487
<v Speaker 3>you know. And I've seen my husband go through dealing

0:45:57.487 --> 0:45:59.927
<v Speaker 3>with you know, gray hair and a bit of a

0:45:59.967 --> 0:46:02.847
<v Speaker 3>paunch or whatever he's got going on. You know, the

0:46:02.927 --> 0:46:05.887
<v Speaker 3>whole sex libido thing is that's a whole challenge in

0:46:05.927 --> 0:46:11.247
<v Speaker 3>itself because, as you say, there's a simply got chemicals happening.

0:46:11.527 --> 0:46:13.967
<v Speaker 3>It's a chemical thing that's going on in your body

0:46:13.967 --> 0:46:18.087
<v Speaker 3>with your hormones, where the libido is just nowhere to

0:46:18.127 --> 0:46:21.087
<v Speaker 3>be found in the building. But you've got everything else

0:46:21.167 --> 0:46:24.167
<v Speaker 3>that's happening, the stress of menopause, the stress of parents,

0:46:24.287 --> 0:46:27.287
<v Speaker 3>you've got the stress of young kids, sometimes the sandwich

0:46:27.327 --> 0:46:31.207
<v Speaker 3>generation as you know it's called, and so much happening,

0:46:31.287 --> 0:46:33.687
<v Speaker 3>and then the need of your partner to connect with

0:46:33.727 --> 0:46:36.607
<v Speaker 3>you on a physical level where it's like the last

0:46:36.727 --> 0:46:39.367
<v Speaker 3>thing you want to be doing, you know. I say

0:46:39.407 --> 0:46:41.567
<v Speaker 3>that in the sense of talk to your girlfriends about it.

0:46:41.647 --> 0:46:44.207
<v Speaker 3>I feel lucky that I've got a husband that really

0:46:44.207 --> 0:46:46.367
<v Speaker 3>really wants to know what's going on. And when he

0:46:46.527 --> 0:46:49.287
<v Speaker 3>knows what's going on with me, he feels better because

0:46:49.327 --> 0:46:52.607
<v Speaker 3>he's always trying to fix something and try to figure

0:46:52.647 --> 0:46:56.087
<v Speaker 3>out why I feel sad or why I don't want

0:46:56.087 --> 0:46:58.047
<v Speaker 3>to get undressed in front of him, because he thinks

0:46:58.087 --> 0:47:00.527
<v Speaker 3>it's about him. He thinks that it's about that I

0:47:00.527 --> 0:47:04.407
<v Speaker 3>don't like him anymore. And when I say I'm just

0:47:04.567 --> 0:47:07.487
<v Speaker 3>having a real shameful moment about the changes in my

0:47:07.567 --> 0:47:11.247
<v Speaker 3>body and I'm feeling slightly embarrassed about who i am

0:47:11.327 --> 0:47:14.447
<v Speaker 3>now and that you won't find me attractive anymore, I

0:47:14.447 --> 0:47:17.847
<v Speaker 3>mean that was shocking to Cam. It's like, what do

0:47:17.887 --> 0:47:21.847
<v Speaker 3>you mean? You know? So, I think being honest like

0:47:22.007 --> 0:47:25.687
<v Speaker 3>that really really helps. And honest, you know, I always say,

0:47:25.807 --> 0:47:28.927
<v Speaker 3>if it is menopause or whatever that's changed your body

0:47:29.007 --> 0:47:33.207
<v Speaker 3>and just growing older and your partner knowing that a

0:47:33.247 --> 0:47:36.087
<v Speaker 3>lot of those changes just could not be helped because

0:47:36.127 --> 0:47:39.367
<v Speaker 3>it's due to estrogen deficiency or whatever is happening. I

0:47:39.367 --> 0:47:43.127
<v Speaker 3>think taking a partner along to like doctor visits with

0:47:43.167 --> 0:47:46.647
<v Speaker 3>you and filling them in on what you understand about

0:47:46.687 --> 0:47:49.167
<v Speaker 3>menopause and the changes in your body. I think that

0:47:49.287 --> 0:47:53.207
<v Speaker 3>really helps them as well. And then of course finding

0:47:53.287 --> 0:47:57.847
<v Speaker 3>ways to connect. That's if you're not feeling sexual, you know,

0:47:58.167 --> 0:48:02.487
<v Speaker 3>a massage, massaging their feed or doing holding hands and

0:48:03.087 --> 0:48:06.247
<v Speaker 3>words of love. Like that's why we work on a

0:48:06.287 --> 0:48:09.367
<v Speaker 3>lot of the time. Oh, sometimes can goes. I just

0:48:09.367 --> 0:48:11.127
<v Speaker 3>want you to tell me that you're still into me.

0:48:11.727 --> 0:48:13.607
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just what you to say?

0:48:13.647 --> 0:48:15.687
<v Speaker 3>You're still into me and you still find me attractive.

0:48:15.927 --> 0:48:18.007
<v Speaker 3>Like that's just what he needs because if I was

0:48:18.047 --> 0:48:21.007
<v Speaker 3>having sex with him, that would be the stamp that

0:48:21.007 --> 0:48:23.767
<v Speaker 3>that was what I was feeling. But if that's not happening,

0:48:23.847 --> 0:48:26.287
<v Speaker 3>then you're I need you to tell me now. So

0:48:26.487 --> 0:48:27.647
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, okay, I get that.

0:48:28.047 --> 0:48:30.767
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting, isn't it, Because in straight relationships, I think

0:48:30.807 --> 0:48:33.407
<v Speaker 2>the stereotype is that men don't care. Do you know

0:48:33.447 --> 0:48:35.367
<v Speaker 2>what I mean? But that's not true. Yeah, it's not

0:48:35.367 --> 0:48:38.047
<v Speaker 2>true at all. No, No, the self esteem is also

0:48:38.127 --> 0:48:40.607
<v Speaker 2>fragile at this time and all the rest of it.

0:48:41.127 --> 0:48:42.847
<v Speaker 2>How are you going with and I know you don't

0:48:42.847 --> 0:48:45.967
<v Speaker 2>have an empty nest quite, but it's emptying out or

0:48:45.967 --> 0:48:48.127
<v Speaker 2>how very like, how's the transition?

0:48:48.727 --> 0:48:52.567
<v Speaker 3>I found it really difficult at first, really really difficult.

0:48:52.727 --> 0:48:57.847
<v Speaker 3>When our first child left the nest. I mourned that

0:48:58.167 --> 0:49:01.567
<v Speaker 3>for quite some time. It's one of those funny things too,

0:49:01.727 --> 0:49:05.607
<v Speaker 3>where you know, you speak to some parents and they're like, yes,

0:49:05.727 --> 0:49:07.887
<v Speaker 3>but you let them go, you let them fly. You

0:49:07.927 --> 0:49:09.767
<v Speaker 3>know you can't keep hold of them for ever, And

0:49:10.487 --> 0:49:14.447
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, I know that, but it doesn't mean I'm

0:49:14.487 --> 0:49:16.727
<v Speaker 3>not going to be really sad that that family of

0:49:16.767 --> 0:49:20.207
<v Speaker 3>five is now no longer. There's no more sitting around

0:49:20.247 --> 0:49:24.087
<v Speaker 3>the dinner table at night and being privy to the

0:49:24.127 --> 0:49:27.567
<v Speaker 3>ins and outs of her life every day and having

0:49:27.647 --> 0:49:29.327
<v Speaker 3>conversations whenever we want.

0:49:29.367 --> 0:49:31.847
<v Speaker 2>Like the loss of that, Oh I'm going to cry.

0:49:32.087 --> 0:49:37.127
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I really really struggled, really struggled with it. And

0:49:37.167 --> 0:49:40.447
<v Speaker 3>then when my son left, that was a whole other

0:49:40.487 --> 0:49:45.647
<v Speaker 3>morning as well. Yet I can say, now we're about

0:49:45.687 --> 0:49:49.287
<v Speaker 3>two three years on from that, the change in our

0:49:49.367 --> 0:49:53.447
<v Speaker 3>relationships or my relationships with the two older kids is

0:49:53.647 --> 0:49:58.447
<v Speaker 3>something I really treasure now, and it's become a different

0:49:58.607 --> 0:50:04.047
<v Speaker 3>kind of level of conversation and interest in you're where

0:50:04.087 --> 0:50:08.407
<v Speaker 3>it does become more two adults loving each other and

0:50:08.927 --> 0:50:11.887
<v Speaker 3>having shared interests and being able to still talk about

0:50:11.887 --> 0:50:16.567
<v Speaker 3>your childhood but still talking about other more adult worldly things,

0:50:16.607 --> 0:50:18.767
<v Speaker 3>and it's quite lovely.

0:50:18.527 --> 0:50:21.567
<v Speaker 2>And I guess it becomes well, ideally, it's now a

0:50:21.647 --> 0:50:25.287
<v Speaker 2>relationship of choice, right, Yeah, is that they will hang

0:50:25.327 --> 0:50:27.607
<v Speaker 2>out with you because they want to. Well, and maybe

0:50:27.607 --> 0:50:30.967
<v Speaker 2>they need something, but they want to. It's something that

0:50:30.967 --> 0:50:33.047
<v Speaker 2>they choose to do now rather than while you live here,

0:50:33.047 --> 0:50:35.567
<v Speaker 2>so you have to see me every day. That's so true.

0:50:35.687 --> 0:50:38.847
<v Speaker 2>And do you allow yourself to feel like a sense

0:50:38.887 --> 0:50:41.007
<v Speaker 2>of accomplishment that they want to be around you and

0:50:41.047 --> 0:50:42.727
<v Speaker 2>that the adult relationship is good?

0:50:43.087 --> 0:50:46.607
<v Speaker 3>Yes and no. Like there's also been conversations, particularly with

0:50:46.647 --> 0:50:50.407
<v Speaker 3>my son, where which I'm grateful to have, where he's

0:50:50.447 --> 0:50:55.887
<v Speaker 3>shared things from his childhood that were especially painful, of

0:50:56.207 --> 0:50:58.807
<v Speaker 3>things that we thought we were doing the best thing

0:50:58.927 --> 0:51:01.447
<v Speaker 3>for him and in fact it was really hurtful. So

0:51:02.127 --> 0:51:06.167
<v Speaker 3>there are moments like that where you go, oh, my god,

0:51:06.287 --> 0:51:09.047
<v Speaker 3>if only I could go back and change that aspect.

0:51:10.127 --> 0:51:14.447
<v Speaker 3>So there's those moments where sometimes I don't feel so accomplished,

0:51:14.487 --> 0:51:17.527
<v Speaker 3>where I go I mess that up for him, But

0:51:17.647 --> 0:51:20.327
<v Speaker 3>at least I go. He still wants to spend time

0:51:20.367 --> 0:51:23.967
<v Speaker 3>with us. He's still wanting to come over, and he's

0:51:24.007 --> 0:51:27.247
<v Speaker 3>still willing to share things about his childhood, and I'm

0:51:27.287 --> 0:51:31.247
<v Speaker 3>just grateful that I have that with him. Yeah, so

0:51:31.287 --> 0:51:33.647
<v Speaker 3>I go back and forth with that, but look, if

0:51:33.647 --> 0:51:36.567
<v Speaker 3>I took a step back, I think we've done a

0:51:36.607 --> 0:51:39.367
<v Speaker 3>pretty bloody good job with the kids. They are good

0:51:39.407 --> 0:51:42.727
<v Speaker 3>people that I know. They are good people with good morals,

0:51:42.727 --> 0:51:45.727
<v Speaker 3>and they're kind and loving, and I'm like, okay, yeah,

0:51:45.727 --> 0:51:46.207
<v Speaker 3>that's good.

0:51:47.087 --> 0:51:50.447
<v Speaker 2>I'll take that. They sound really good. Before we go,

0:51:50.647 --> 0:51:52.567
<v Speaker 2>we're not here to talk about menopause, even though we

0:51:52.607 --> 0:51:56.727
<v Speaker 2>have a little bit. But you are Queen menopause? Where

0:51:56.767 --> 0:52:00.127
<v Speaker 2>are you up to? Like I kind of I feel like,

0:52:00.927 --> 0:52:03.047
<v Speaker 2>you know, when I was preparing for our conversation, I

0:52:03.087 --> 0:52:04.807
<v Speaker 2>was revisiting a lot of the things you were talking

0:52:04.807 --> 0:52:08.767
<v Speaker 2>about around the book and you have really gone through it, Like, yeah,

0:52:08.807 --> 0:52:11.567
<v Speaker 2>we know all of our experiences are different. What's it

0:52:11.647 --> 0:52:12.567
<v Speaker 2>like where you are now?

0:52:12.967 --> 0:52:17.047
<v Speaker 3>I am most definitely postmenopause, which I was not when

0:52:17.047 --> 0:52:20.847
<v Speaker 3>I was writing that book. And I think that having

0:52:20.967 --> 0:52:25.167
<v Speaker 3>spoken to a bunch of women about postmenopause for the

0:52:25.207 --> 0:52:28.487
<v Speaker 3>book and then of course, since touring the book and

0:52:29.327 --> 0:52:32.567
<v Speaker 3>starting Aviana, the wellness platform for menopause or women that

0:52:32.567 --> 0:52:39.167
<v Speaker 3>we've started, and just hearing further stories of women postmenopause,

0:52:40.047 --> 0:52:44.927
<v Speaker 3>I got really really excited about postmenopause. I did feel

0:52:45.127 --> 0:52:47.687
<v Speaker 3>the light at the end of the tunnel, and that's

0:52:47.687 --> 0:52:50.287
<v Speaker 3>something that I'm really passionate about that women should know

0:52:50.367 --> 0:52:53.807
<v Speaker 3>about because it can be a shit show. And to

0:52:53.927 --> 0:52:56.207
<v Speaker 3>know that you will not always feel like that, you

0:52:56.247 --> 0:52:59.087
<v Speaker 3>will not always feel as bad as you do right now,

0:52:59.647 --> 0:53:02.647
<v Speaker 3>and there is help out there. Maybe for some women

0:53:02.847 --> 0:53:06.687
<v Speaker 3>it comes automatically, naturally that the birds start singing again

0:53:06.727 --> 0:53:10.007
<v Speaker 3>and you start sleeping and everything's magically delicious. I do

0:53:10.167 --> 0:53:13.847
<v Speaker 3>know that I had to work at feeling better, and

0:53:13.927 --> 0:53:16.367
<v Speaker 3>I have done a lot around that, you know, with

0:53:16.727 --> 0:53:21.367
<v Speaker 3>exercise and diet and mindset and stuff. But I do

0:53:21.687 --> 0:53:26.407
<v Speaker 3>feel happier within myself than I can ever remember.

0:53:27.007 --> 0:53:28.927
<v Speaker 2>That is something to look forward to.

0:53:28.927 --> 0:53:28.967
<v Speaker 3>It.

0:53:29.127 --> 0:53:32.087
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's the one thing you would tell somebody who's

0:53:32.167 --> 0:53:32.887
<v Speaker 2>where you were.

0:53:33.607 --> 0:53:39.207
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, definitely continue to seek assistance and help. Don't just

0:53:39.327 --> 0:53:42.207
<v Speaker 3>go I'll just put up with it till this is over.

0:53:42.607 --> 0:53:46.007
<v Speaker 3>There is a lot of great help out there, and yeah,

0:53:46.047 --> 0:53:50.047
<v Speaker 3>to know that there is definitely a world, a life

0:53:50.327 --> 0:53:53.607
<v Speaker 3>experience is ahead of you that are really joyful and

0:53:53.687 --> 0:53:57.567
<v Speaker 3>fun and wonderful, and now is the time, more than

0:53:57.847 --> 0:54:02.367
<v Speaker 3>your entire life experience, you deserve to be well taken

0:54:02.407 --> 0:54:05.967
<v Speaker 3>care of and do it. Spend the money on yourself

0:54:06.047 --> 0:54:07.407
<v Speaker 3>if you can do it.

0:54:07.527 --> 0:54:08.407
<v Speaker 2>Don't think that.

0:54:08.407 --> 0:54:11.447
<v Speaker 3>Oh I can't. You know, oh I don't have the time.

0:54:11.647 --> 0:54:14.447
<v Speaker 3>Make the time for you. It's so important.

0:54:19.407 --> 0:54:20.767
<v Speaker 1>A bloody love Ali Dado.

0:54:21.167 --> 0:54:23.287
<v Speaker 2>I've spoken to her a few times over the years

0:54:23.287 --> 0:54:25.207
<v Speaker 2>because of some of you all know. I've worked with

0:54:25.247 --> 0:54:27.527
<v Speaker 2>her brother in law for the longest time. We hosted

0:54:27.527 --> 0:54:30.367
<v Speaker 2>a show together called This Glorious Mess. And every time

0:54:30.367 --> 0:54:34.247
<v Speaker 2>I've interviewed her about family, about menopause, about this issue,

0:54:34.567 --> 0:54:37.167
<v Speaker 2>I find her just very real and very honest and

0:54:37.287 --> 0:54:40.047
<v Speaker 2>very thoughtful. I know you want to know, so I'm

0:54:40.087 --> 0:54:42.807
<v Speaker 2>also going to tell you, yes, she looks bloody great.

0:54:43.407 --> 0:54:46.407
<v Speaker 2>Not great for her age, but great for any age.

0:54:46.687 --> 0:54:48.687
<v Speaker 2>You can see the pictures for yourself. But she came

0:54:48.727 --> 0:54:51.607
<v Speaker 2>into the studio in a very cool dead and boiler suit,

0:54:51.687 --> 0:54:55.007
<v Speaker 2>all hair and glowing skin and big grin. She looks

0:54:55.087 --> 0:54:57.527
<v Speaker 2>like she's settled into that place. I said, I wanted

0:54:57.527 --> 0:55:00.127
<v Speaker 2>to get to in my intro a place of comfort

0:55:00.207 --> 0:55:03.847
<v Speaker 2>and confidence, but knowing midlife, it might just be a visit.

0:55:03.967 --> 0:55:07.127
<v Speaker 2>Because Holly knows what'll come next. It just keeps throwing curveballs,

0:55:07.607 --> 0:55:10.367
<v Speaker 2>which is why, of course, we're going to be back

0:55:10.807 --> 0:55:14.167
<v Speaker 2>very soon with season three of your show, and we'll

0:55:14.167 --> 0:55:18.287
<v Speaker 2>be talking about divorce and change and food and sexuality

0:55:18.367 --> 0:55:23.967
<v Speaker 2>and you know, more of the good stuff. I can't

0:55:24.007 --> 0:55:26.127
<v Speaker 2>thank you all enough for being here with us through

0:55:26.167 --> 0:55:29.927
<v Speaker 2>season two of Mid Please if this body image conversation resonated,

0:55:30.007 --> 0:55:32.247
<v Speaker 2>go and listen to our conversation from season one with

0:55:32.327 --> 0:55:36.487
<v Speaker 2>Helen Thorn about bodies because she was hilarious and honest

0:55:36.567 --> 0:55:39.687
<v Speaker 2>about her midlife body transformation. And you're going to laugh

0:55:39.687 --> 0:55:43.487
<v Speaker 2>so much again a week. But anyway, thank you, thank you,

0:55:43.647 --> 0:55:47.047
<v Speaker 2>and thank you to our mid team. That's our EP

0:55:47.367 --> 0:55:50.807
<v Speaker 2>name A Brown, our producers to Elisabezazz and Charlie Blackman.

0:55:51.167 --> 0:55:54.367
<v Speaker 2>Sound design and audio production from Leah Porge's and Tom Lyon,

0:55:54.687 --> 0:55:58.207
<v Speaker 2>and social media video production by Josh Green. And I'm

0:55:58.287 --> 0:56:01.127
<v Speaker 2>Holly Wainwright. And we'll see you back here in just

0:56:01.207 --> 0:56:02.047
<v Speaker 2>a few weeks.

0:56:02.407 --> 0:56:14.447
<v Speaker 4>On October the fifteenth, not long ago, goodbye.

0:56:10.527 --> 0:56:11.607
<v Speaker 1>Then