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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. When you think about sport in Australia,

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Speaker 2: who comes to mind? Is it Pat Cumments lifting the

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Speaker 2: cricket World Cup. Maybe it's Nick Curios at Wimbledon, or

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Speaker 2: perhaps Sam Kerr and the Matildas during their historic World

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Speaker 2: Cup run. Well, if your mind went straight to mail athletes,

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Speaker 2: you're not alone, and the latest research confirms why. Before

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Speaker 2: we unpack all of that though, here's Claire Murphy with

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Speaker 2: the latest from The Quickie newsroom for Wednesday, March five.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. Millions of people along a stretch of coastline

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Speaker 1: from southern Queensland to northern New South Wales are prepping

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Speaker 1: for the landfall of Cyclone Alfred, with many planning to

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Speaker 1: leave before tomorrow's expected arrival. Thousands of sandbags have been

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Speaker 1: delivered to people across the region, hoping to shore up

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Speaker 1: their homes before Alfred's arrival either tomorrow or early Friday.

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Speaker 1: With flash flooding heavy rainfall, destructive winds and storm surges

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Speaker 1: expected from Double Island Point in Queensland to Yamber in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales. The worst affected area is believed to

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Speaker 1: be Brisbane, the Gold Coast and the New South Wales

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Speaker 1: Northern Rivers, whose residents have only just recovered from deadly

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Speaker 1: floods just three years ago. The Prime Minister has flown

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Speaker 1: into Brisbane to support those who are facing potential natural disaster,

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Speaker 1: helping with the Federal Response Plan. Opposition Leader Peter Dutton

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Speaker 1: says public service employees will be forced to return to

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Speaker 1: the office five days a week if the Coalition wins

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Speaker 1: at the upcoming election. Mister Dutton claims the move would

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Speaker 1: make the sector more efficient and argues that it won't

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Speaker 1: disadvantage women, despite the data showing more women have moved

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Speaker 1: into full time work from part time due to being

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Speaker 1: able to be flexible working from home. Mister Dutton says

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Speaker 1: the order would only apply to those who refuse to

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Speaker 1: return and that it doesn't discriminate against people on the

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Speaker 1: basis of gender. Dutton also plans to cut more than

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Speaker 1: thirty six thousand jobs from the public sector. Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: Anthony Albernezi, calling both decisions a lazy policy stolen from

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, where US employees have been placed on administrative

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Speaker 1: leave if they've refused to return to the office full time.

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Speaker 1: Finance Minister Katie Gallaher accused Dutton of not understanding how

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Speaker 1: modern families operate and that women have a right to

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Speaker 1: feel at risk. Ukrainian President Vladimi Zelenski says he regrets

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Speaker 1: last week's fiery clash with US President Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: he wants to make things right. Releasing a statement a

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Speaker 1: day after Trump pulled or military aid to his country,

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Speaker 1: Zelenski said he supports peace negotiations and was ready to

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Speaker 1: sign a deal giving the US access to Ukrainian minerals,

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Speaker 1: a deal he left unsigned when he was forced to

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Speaker 1: leave the White House after being confronted by both Trump

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Speaker 1: and Vice President jd.

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Speaker 3: Vance.

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Speaker 1: Zelenski says he really does value how much America has

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Speaker 1: done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence, saying

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Speaker 1: he and his team are ready to work under President

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Speaker 1: Trump's strong leadership. After being delayed by the la wildfires, Meghan,

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Speaker 1: the Duchess of Sussex's new Netflix show With Love Meghan,

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Speaker 1: has debuted with an explanation as to why we should

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Speaker 1: stop calling her Meghan Markel. In an episode featuring comedian,

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Speaker 1: actor and writer Mindy Kaling, she commented on how no

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Speaker 1: one would believe that Meghan markle ate it jack in

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Speaker 1: the box. Meghan responded with it's funny how people still

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Speaker 1: call her Meghan Markel when her name is now actually

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Speaker 1: Meghan Sussex. She explained that she didn't realize how important

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Speaker 1: sharing a last name with her husband would be until

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Speaker 1: they had little Archie and Lily Beet, saying that all

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Speaker 1: having the name Sussex, which was bestowed on them by

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Speaker 1: the Queen when they got married, has been a really

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Speaker 1: important thing for her. Kalen and Meghan also shared their

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Speaker 1: experiences of both being on long running TV shows, Meghan

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Speaker 1: admitting she kept the pencil skirt she wore in episode

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Speaker 1: one of Suits.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Clen. Next, what does Australia really think about women

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Speaker 2: in sport? Women's sport has been dominating headlines this week,

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Speaker 2: but not always for the right reasons. In football or soccer.

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Speaker 2: It's been a nightmare tournament for the Matildas over the

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Speaker 2: last three or four days over in the US. You

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Speaker 2: know what they remind me of Year ten girls now

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry to undermine the whole sport, but that's what

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Speaker 2: I think of it, So you can stick it up

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Speaker 2: your ass. So we're playing in the She Believes Cup.

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Speaker 2: Men radio host Marty Sheergold sparked outrage with his dismissive

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Speaker 2: comments about the Matilda's and women's sport, broadly, prompting Football

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Speaker 2: Australia to issue a formal condemnation of his remarks and

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Speaker 2: broadcast Triple M to drop his show. Adding fuel to

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Speaker 2: the fire, the world's one hundred highest paid athletes list

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Speaker 2: was just released, with not a single woman making the cut.

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Speaker 2: The highest earning female athlete, tennis start Coco Golf didn't

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Speaker 2: even come close to cracking the list, dominated by male footballers,

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Speaker 2: basketball players and golfers. These controversies come time as the

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Speaker 2: Victorian Government's Office for Women in Sport and Recreation released

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Speaker 2: its second annual Conversations of Sport Report with findings that

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Speaker 2: may help explain why these attitudes persist. It turns out

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Speaker 2: women's sport makes up just twenty percent of total sport

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Speaker 2: media coverage across print, online, radio, and television. Of the

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Speaker 2: twenty sports examined in the study, only four had what

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Speaker 2: research has considered gender based coverage. That's swimming, athletics, hockey,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps unsurprisingly, netball. The research also revealed something many

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Speaker 2: female sports fans have long suspected. The way women's sports

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Speaker 2: is covered differs dramatically from men's. Female athletes are overwhelmingly

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Speaker 2: described as quiet achievers, while their male counterparts are, for

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Speaker 2: trade as well liked and popular. Even the assignment of

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Speaker 2: journalists tells a story. Female journalists made up just twenty

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Speaker 2: seven percent of sports bylines. Overall, they were sixty two

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Speaker 2: percent more likely to cover women's sports than their male colleagues.

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Speaker 2: All this comes after Australia experienced the euphoria of the

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Speaker 2: Matilda's World Cup campaign, which saw record viewership and attendance

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Speaker 2: for women's sports.

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Speaker 1: Running right a shot, they is no sport person little

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Speaker 1: Australia male female to talk.

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Speaker 2: Right now, But experts are questioning whether this interest has

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Speaker 2: been sustained or if we've slipped back into old patterns

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Speaker 2: of coverage. So how do we ensure women's sport gets

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Speaker 2: the recognition it deserves and what impact does media representation

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Speaker 2: have on the next generation of female athletes? To help

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Speaker 2: us unpack these findings and what they mean, for the

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Speaker 2: Future of Women's Sport in Australia were joined by the

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Speaker 2: Director of the Office for Women in Sport and Recreation

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Speaker 2: in Victoria, Sarah Styles. Sarah, the report shows that women's

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Speaker 2: sport still only makes up twenty percent of total coverage.

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Speaker 2: Were you surprised by that figure?

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Speaker 3: That's an interesting question, isn't it, Because on one hand,

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Speaker 3: you know, movement forward, that's always a positive. The year

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about here was the year of the

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Speaker 3: FIFA Women's World Cup, that incredible moment that you know,

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Speaker 3: just captured the entire country. So the fact it increased

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Speaker 3: I very much expected what I've liked to have seen

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Speaker 3: it a little bit more probably, So what we're seeing

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Speaker 3: here is, you know, yeah, women's sports content has increased

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Speaker 3: by a third in terms of its inclusion in news,

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Speaker 3: but that still means it's pretty much one piece of

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Speaker 3: news on women's sport for almost every four on men's sports.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit more about the

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Speaker 2: FIFA Women's World Cup. Obviously last year that would have

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Speaker 2: had a huge surge impact on the interest in women's sport,

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Speaker 2: both in the media covering and also the attendance in

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Speaker 2: general public sentiment.

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Speaker 3: It would be.

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Speaker 2: Great if every year we had like a Women's World

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Speaker 2: Cup and we all got behind the tillies like we

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Speaker 2: did last year. Is that sort of what it's going

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Speaker 2: to take or are we hoping that we'll see this

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Speaker 2: incremental growth in interest and coverage year on year.

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Speaker 3: Reality is, Australians love sport with context. Doesn't matter what

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Speaker 3: sport you're in, whether it is soccer, whether it is netball,

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Speaker 3: whether it is even when the cricketers are playing in

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Speaker 3: the ashes. Australia does respond to when there's sport with context.

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Speaker 3: So on one hand, that's always wonderful and we would

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Speaker 3: expect to see some uptick. But reality is, even if

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Speaker 3: we move away from those major events, all those major matches,

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Speaker 3: there is an opportunity here that women should be represented more.

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Speaker 3: And that's where this work with the Conversation of Sports started,

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Speaker 3: This idea of you know what, we're not even here

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Speaker 3: talking to the sports editors to say I want you

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Speaker 3: to commit to X tomorrow. What we're saying is, hey,

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Speaker 3: this is where you're at. What do you think do

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Speaker 3: you think that is reasonable? What do you think is

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Speaker 3: possible to do a little bit more tomorrow? Because one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent this idea of such a skew, it's just

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Speaker 3: not on.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk more about some of the other

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Speaker 2: content and the other findings from the report, but I

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Speaker 2: do just want to linger on the Matildas for one

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Speaker 2: more moment, because one of the findings that really piqued

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Speaker 2: my interest was that the Tillies had the third highest

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Speaker 2: share of coverage across sporting teams. They were the only

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Speaker 2: female team in the top ten, behind the Ossie cricket

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Speaker 2: team and the Magpie's AFL team. Surely that there solidifies

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Speaker 2: that there is an appetite for women's sport coverage.

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Speaker 3: That appetite and I think what was so wonderful about

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Speaker 3: the Matildas, whether it's the World Cup, all the shellouts

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Speaker 3: that they've had, is that shows what it can be like.

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Speaker 3: And I even think just before we all went into

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Speaker 3: lockdown twenty twenty, the T twenty World Cup Final with

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Speaker 3: the Australian Women's cricket team selling out the ZG that

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Speaker 3: was the last big major event, just before everything happened.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing time and time again, whether we go back

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Speaker 3: a couple more years, the launch of AFLW NRLW. One

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Speaker 3: thing that I suppose does get to me, is were

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Speaker 3: having this conversation that women's sport has arrived, and then

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Speaker 3: the next year there is women's sport has arrived, and

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Speaker 3: then women's sport has arrived. Women's sport has been arriving

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Speaker 3: for a very long time. And there's actually some work

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Speaker 3: that's not ours that shows this narrative of this newness

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Speaker 3: of women's sport. How do we move past that and

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Speaker 3: just kind of go women's put it here and it

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Speaker 3: is great fun.

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Speaker 2: This sort of conversation really flies in the face of

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Speaker 2: comments that are now certain ex broadcaster had made about

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Speaker 2: the Tillies and he was quite unhappy about them being

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Speaker 2: covered on his show. What do you make of Mardy

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Speaker 2: Sheergold's comments? What do they do when we're trying to

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Speaker 2: continue to foster that environment for women's sport.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, I'm not going to pretend it's not

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Speaker 3: disappointing when we hear things like this. I think the

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Speaker 3: opportunity here, though, is to not kind of go, hang on,

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Speaker 3: here's one person who said something that they shouldn't have,

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Speaker 3: and so therefore that one person has now experienced the

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Speaker 3: consequences of that, and we move on, because what will

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Speaker 3: happen then? Is the next time somebody says something that is,

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Speaker 3: you know what, really inappropriate. It's not about not criticizing

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Speaker 3: women's sport. Actually criticism of women's sport and the performances

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Speaker 3: and whatnot ironically a sign of progress because it's actually

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Speaker 3: meaningful engagement in the sport. For a long time, we

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Speaker 3: didn't actually extend past this idea of Wow, women play football.

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Speaker 3: How great is that. So if somebody's come in and saying,

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Speaker 3: hang on, what's going on with this performance or this

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Speaker 3: coaching or something like that, it's not automatically bad because

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about here is not criticism. What we're

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Speaker 3: talking about here is this internalized bias and pretty much

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Speaker 3: misogyny that is directed around women's sport. The one thing

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Speaker 3: I would say with what we saw play out was

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Speaker 3: let's not think here is one person and therefore that

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Speaker 3: one person has now had certain things happen to them.

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Speaker 3: How do we think about what is the ecosystem here

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Speaker 3: and what is the ecosystem that needs to change, Whether

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Speaker 3: it is around the massive under apent for women in

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Speaker 3: sports media, whether it is the fact that corporates are

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Speaker 3: still not sponsoring women athletes and women's sport like they should,

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Speaker 3: or just simply the opportunities to compete still aren't on

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Speaker 3: par with what they should be.

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Speaker 2: I love this idea of the ecosystem. Another factor in

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Speaker 2: that is how we actually report on women verse men

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Speaker 2: in sport. Are we seeing the gap close between the

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Speaker 2: types of stories that were being told when we report

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Speaker 2: on men in sport it almost feels like they received

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Speaker 2: this real three sixty approach, this nuanced analysis or like

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Speaker 2: profile pieces. Are we seeing that with women's sport or

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Speaker 2: are we still just seeing sort of straight up and

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Speaker 2: down results reporting.

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Speaker 3: We are seeing some positive trends here. So on one hand,

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Speaker 3: women are still much more likely to simply be here

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Speaker 3: was the thing that happened, you know, this match happened,

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Speaker 3: or this outcome happened. Men are still more likely to

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Speaker 3: have this more fulsome Here's the thing that happened, Here's

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Speaker 3: what happened before, Here's what's happening next? Here who liked

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Speaker 3: avocados this week? And that is a function of the

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Speaker 3: fact there is just simply more face still given to men.

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Speaker 3: But what we saw in this most recent report is

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Speaker 3: the gap is closing, because ultimately, what we would like

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Speaker 3: to see, similar to this idea that criticism is not

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Speaker 3: automatically bad. We want to see the same balanced courage

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Speaker 3: being spoken about in sport, whether it is men or women,

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Speaker 3: and we did see that. So, for example, we saw

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Speaker 3: differences in how women's sport is being spoken about in quality,

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Speaker 3: in how hard they're working, in the excellence of their performance.

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Speaker 3: The gap that previously skewed towards men, we're not seeing anymore.

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Speaker 3: We've still got some work to do, but definitely positive trends.

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Speaker 2: Well, we see the margins between how we view men

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Speaker 2: and women in sport closing. There's still a couple of

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Speaker 2: other glaring disparities, though pay is a massive one. Last month,

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Speaker 2: the one hundred highest paid athlete list was revealed, and

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Speaker 2: no surprises, not a single woman managed to crack that list.

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Speaker 2: Coco GoF came the closest, though she's an American tennis player,

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Speaker 2: but even still seven million dollars behind the athlete who

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Speaker 2: came in at the bottom of the list at number

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Speaker 2: one hundred. What does that tell you about where we're at?

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Speaker 3: For me, again, this goes to the ecosystem. You know,

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Speaker 3: we have seen some women in this list in the past,

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Speaker 3: often tennis players, golfers, people who are particularly earning strong

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Speaker 3: income from their endorsements, and that is usually because they

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Speaker 3: have really strong tie ups with brands that it's not

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Speaker 3: just a once off marketing campaign. So we have seen

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Speaker 3: it in the past, but we're not seeing it right now.

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Speaker 3: And so for me, it is how can we make

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Speaker 3: sure that as women's sport is growing, we recognize that

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Speaker 3: that is actually against the ongoing growth of men's sports. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, Christiano Ronaldo who was number one, he earned

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Speaker 3: one hundred million dollars more than who was number two,

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Speaker 3: and that's off the back of now him playing soccer

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Speaker 3: in Saudi Arabia. Where is the money coming from? You know,

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Speaker 3: the golfers who are playing on the live golf circuit

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Speaker 3: huge money and the fact that these big investments in

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Speaker 3: sport are only being directed towards men's sport, that's something

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Speaker 3: that that's a red flag. It's something we should be

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Speaker 3: watching out for. But it also goes to for sponsors,

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Speaker 3: there is a huge opportunity to actually align themselves with

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Speaker 3: women athletes.

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Speaker 2: So we've seen some increases in some areas in your

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Speaker 2: reporting and some stagnation and others. Where are we at

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Speaker 2: when this conversation moves forward? Do you expect we will continue

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Speaker 2: to see these incremental gains in how we cover and

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Speaker 2: tune into and consume women's sport with every report you

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Speaker 2: put out.

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Speaker 3: I think what I would like to see here is

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Speaker 3: this work expand I would like to see this work

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Speaker 3: go nationally to make sure that the conversation with sports editors,

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Speaker 3: with the news directors, with those people who are making

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Speaker 3: the decisions of what are we sharing with Australian sports fans,

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Speaker 3: and just simply the Australian community has great a gender balance.

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Speaker 3: The design of this report is and how do we

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Speaker 3: have those transparent conversations. I'm not here to punch down

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Speaker 3: on the decisions these guys a big makeups are making

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Speaker 3: and reality is, for the most part they are still

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Speaker 3: men in those roles. I'm here to say, well, here

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Speaker 3: is information. How do we have a conversation about how

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Speaker 3: we do better tomorrow? So I think there's an opportunity

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Speaker 3: for us to make sure this work continues, this work

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Speaker 3: goes nationally and those conversations continue. Otherwise I fear we

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Speaker 3: may go backwards.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano

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Speaker 2: and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Tom Lyons.