WEBVTT - We Do We Procrastinate? Here Are Some Tips To Focus

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I need to study, but you know what, I

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<v Speaker 2>have some laundry to do. Let me just go do that. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>time to study. Wait, did I need the stove on?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Let me go have a look. Okay, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>guess it's off. I'm a little sleepy. Let me take

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<v Speaker 1>a nap so i'm alert when I start to study

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<v Speaker 1>for Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashanny Dante. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>But Are You Happy? The podcast for people who romanticize

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<v Speaker 1>slow mornings and then snooze is their alarm six times?

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm doctor Anastagia Hernus, a clinical psychologist passionate about

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<v Speaker 2>happiness and mental health. Do you ever set yourself a

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<v Speaker 2>goal or a task, but when it comes time to

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<v Speaker 2>do it, you just can't seem to focus or follow through.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, I'm definitely guilty of this. I'm suddenly doing ten

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<v Speaker 1>other things around the house and not actually doing the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that's priority.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're not alone. Procrastination is super common, and today

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to dive into what's really going on when

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<v Speaker 2>we put things off and why it happens in the

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<v Speaker 2>first place.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get into it. I feel like, procrastination is such

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<v Speaker 1>a relatable behavior. I feel like I do it all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Hence why we're dedicating a whole episode to this,

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<v Speaker 1>aren't we? Yeah? So what is procrastination?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's start off with some terms and some definitions.

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<v Speaker 2>Procrastination is essentially a behavior where we delay a task

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<v Speaker 2>we need to do. It's really as simple as that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's putting something off that we know needs to get

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<v Speaker 2>done or we know that we need to do so.

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<v Speaker 1>It does sound like such a blanket statement and very generic.

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<v Speaker 1>So are there different types of procrastination or do we

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<v Speaker 1>all just do the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>We all procrastinate at times, right, because it's a normal

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<v Speaker 2>human natural desire to want to sometimes put things off,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if they're hard, or we know we're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy them, or they bring up difficult emotions for us.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a whole range of reasons why we might procrastinate

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<v Speaker 2>on certain things. That's normal, that's natural. We all do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess there's a difference between those of us who

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<v Speaker 2>might sort of do it infrequently versus those of us

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<v Speaker 2>who do it on the regular. And that's where it

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<v Speaker 2>becomes more problematic for people where they really end up

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<v Speaker 2>in difficult situations because they've delayed tasks so long. But

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to different types of procrastination, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there's the avoidance procrastination, where we just want

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<v Speaker 2>to completely avoid doing a task so we don't do

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<v Speaker 2>it at all. But then there's the procrastination that might

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<v Speaker 2>feel productive, where we do the less important tasks first.

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<v Speaker 2>I've certainly been guilty of this at times. Well, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>answer my emails before I get onto the big task

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<v Speaker 2>I need to do, because.

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<v Speaker 1>That feels it feels way better.

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<v Speaker 2>It feels like I'm still doing so I'm still doing

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<v Speaker 2>something right, so I'm technically not procrastinating even though I am.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's that kind of like useful procrastination or productive

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<v Speaker 2>procrastination as we might call it. And then there's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of this more like perfectionistic procrastination, So people that feel like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't start yet because everything's not yet in order.

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<v Speaker 2>I need things to kind of be perfect or to

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<v Speaker 2>be right or to be in order before I can

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<v Speaker 2>start the task, which means that the task often ends

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<v Speaker 2>up getting very delayed because it's really hard to get

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<v Speaker 2>things to feel like they're perfect or exactly right before

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<v Speaker 2>we start.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so interesting as you're talking about all three types

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<v Speaker 1>of procrastination. In my head, I'm like, yep, that's me, Yep,

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<v Speaker 1>that's me. Oh that's me again. Excellent. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>this is I'm curious to know whether I sit on

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<v Speaker 1>the normal or the chronic side of procrastination. So well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I be a therapy session for me.

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<v Speaker 2>So we would ask someone, you know, like, is procrastination

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<v Speaker 2>causing problems in your life? Because we all do it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like any kind of coping behavior or coping mechanism, right,

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<v Speaker 2>anything in moderation can be okay. But if we feel

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<v Speaker 2>like it means that I'm getting additional fines because I'm

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<v Speaker 2>paying my bills late, or if it means that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're if someone's at UNI and you're chronically handing

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<v Speaker 2>in your assessments late and they're threatening to keep you

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<v Speaker 2>out of the course, for example, It's sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>how much of a problem does it show up as

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<v Speaker 2>in your life? Because if we procrastinate but there's no

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<v Speaker 2>real problem about it, then I always say something's a

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<v Speaker 2>problem only if it's a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, that's a really good way to discern between

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<v Speaker 1>which side that you're on. Yeah, so why do we

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<v Speaker 1>actually procrastinate, Like, what's the reason underneath it all?

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<v Speaker 2>There can be a range of different reasons y.

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<v Speaker 1>So some of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Common ones can be if someone has a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>self doubt or a kind of fear of failure. This

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<v Speaker 2>can really get in the way of starting a task.

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<v Speaker 2>So again, if someone's got a UNI assignment to complete,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, and they're worried about it. They're worried about

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<v Speaker 2>not doing a good job, they're worried about getting a

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<v Speaker 2>bad grade, they're worried that they don't understand the content

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<v Speaker 2>well enough. This can absolutely get in the way of

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<v Speaker 2>them starting the task. So that kind of fear attached

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<v Speaker 2>to the task. It might also be a fear that's

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<v Speaker 2>related to kind of not knowing how to do the task. So,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, if someone has to do their taxes and

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<v Speaker 2>they've never done their taxes before, or they find that

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<v Speaker 2>a really hard thing, that could be another reason why

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<v Speaker 2>someone procrastinates because it feels hard and overwhelming. We also

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<v Speaker 2>have the category of people who are more perfectionistic and

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<v Speaker 2>do have those perfectionistic tendencies, and that can make tasks

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<v Speaker 2>feel really overwhelming because if I approach a task feeling

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<v Speaker 2>like it needs to be perfect or I need to

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<v Speaker 2>get it exactly right or do the absolute best I

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<v Speaker 2>possibly can, it feels like a lot of pressure, and

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<v Speaker 2>so naturally and understandably, someone's going to delay starting that task.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's really interesting because all the three factors

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<v Speaker 1>you've just identified is so relatable. And I know for me,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of women ask me. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>procrastination is definitely a question that comes up women who

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<v Speaker 1>want to start their own businesses and they want to

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<v Speaker 1>know how to combat this. But a lot of the time,

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<v Speaker 1>at the root of it is things like fear. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we just keep ruminating, ruminating on all these thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>and it actually gets me thinking about two seasons ago

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<v Speaker 1>on our first episode we talked about anxiety, and I

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<v Speaker 1>know you mentioned a lot of okay, what's actually helpful

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts and unhelpful and I feel like that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>weaves in quite nicely with what we're identifying.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and I love that you talk about this link

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<v Speaker 2>between perfectionism and kind of self doubt and self belief, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because the two really do go hand in hand. Often

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<v Speaker 2>it is that the person who may appear as being

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<v Speaker 2>quite perfectionistic and having everything put together and under control,

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<v Speaker 2>operates that way as a coping mechanism for those underlying

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<v Speaker 2>beliefs or fears around self doubt.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so true. Gosh, it feels like you're reading my

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<v Speaker 1>journal lately. I was like, how does she literally write

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<v Speaker 1>about perfectionism like the other day? It's great. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting to me because when it comes to procrastination, it

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat feels quite automatic, like it's a habit. Like what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on there?

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<v Speaker 2>It can become a habit, right, The more we do

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<v Speaker 2>something more habitual it does become. So the more we procrastinate,

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<v Speaker 2>the easier it will be for our brain and body

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<v Speaker 2>to procrastinate. Again, if I talk about neural pathways in

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<v Speaker 2>the brain, the more that we use a pathway in

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<v Speaker 2>the brain, the stronger and more automatic it becomes. So

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<v Speaker 2>if procrastination becomes a habit for me, it's often because

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<v Speaker 2>I've practiced it a lot. But procrastination is often in

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<v Speaker 2>some way a choice. Right. We don't not do the

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<v Speaker 2>task because we forget about it, because if we do,

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<v Speaker 2>if I forget to do my taxes, that's different to

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<v Speaker 2>me procrastinating doing my taxes. If I'm procrastinating, I know

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<v Speaker 2>at the back of my head, I've got that thing,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh do your taxes? Do your taxes? You know, like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not forgetting about it. It's there. Yeah, So there

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<v Speaker 2>is a degree of choice when it comes to procrastination,

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<v Speaker 2>and people are often aware that they're procrastinating. It's slightly

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<v Speaker 2>different to something we would refer to as task paralysis.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a kind of form of procrastination that

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<v Speaker 2>some people can develop. We see it sometimes common for

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<v Speaker 2>people ADHD, for example. But it is this overwhelm that

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<v Speaker 2>feels paralyzing. It's almost like the body's fight flight freeze

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<v Speaker 2>system is activated and someone goes into a freeze state,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's much less of a choice. That's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>an experience that overwhelms someone and renders them sort of

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<v Speaker 2>paralyzed to be able to engage in that task.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, I didn't know about that. It's really interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely can find myself when I'm on social media.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to take a break,

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<v Speaker 1>and then next minute, I'm literally I don't even know

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<v Speaker 1>if we say next minute anymore. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>that's a trend. Gen Zs. Don't judge me, but literally,

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<v Speaker 1>ten like thirty minutes later, I've been scrolling and it

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<v Speaker 1>gets me thinking about the environment that we're in. So

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<v Speaker 1>how does environment impact procrastination?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good point, you know, if we are in

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<v Speaker 2>an environment where we have a lot of distractions, where

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lack of structure, for example, this can make

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<v Speaker 2>it easier for us to procrastinate. In every day. We

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<v Speaker 2>have limited mental resources and only so much capacity to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to plan out the day right, So, being

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<v Speaker 2>able to have sort of structure in our day, if

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<v Speaker 2>I know that when I wake up, I have these

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<v Speaker 2>certain tasks I need to do, it's going to reduce

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<v Speaker 2>some of the mental load that I need for the

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<v Speaker 2>day ahead. But if everything is kind of unstructured in

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<v Speaker 2>my day to day life, if it feels quite chaotic

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<v Speaker 2>and disorganized, it means that I need to use more

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<v Speaker 2>of my mental load, more of that mental capacity to

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<v Speaker 2>figure things out and plan as I go along. So

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<v Speaker 2>that can sometimes be not very helpful if I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to reduce the amount that I procrastinate.

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<v Speaker 1>I really love that you're talking about structure, because essentially

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<v Speaker 1>structure does give us more clarity, like in our everyday task,

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<v Speaker 1>but also in our inner world too.

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<v Speaker 2>Clarity and control. Right, if i feel like I've got

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<v Speaker 2>a plan for the day, if i feel like I've

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<v Speaker 2>got some degree of structure, I feel more in control

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<v Speaker 2>over myself, over my behaviors and actions for the day

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<v Speaker 2>and how the day might pan out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so fascinating because procrastination it feels like there are

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<v Speaker 1>so many layers to it, and I feel like you've

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<v Speaker 1>already spoken to the emotions. It can be a habit.

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<v Speaker 1>There's the environment, like are there other reasons as well

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<v Speaker 1>why we procrastinate?

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<v Speaker 2>There can be unhelpful thought patterns attached to procrastination. So

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<v Speaker 2>if we think about we've talked about thoughts, feelings, and

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<v Speaker 2>behaviors in the past, these link up. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>foundation of a lot of psychological work that we do.

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<v Speaker 2>If we think about the emotion underpinning procrastination, it's often

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<v Speaker 2>an emotion relating to anxiety or overwhelm or stress or

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<v Speaker 2>fear of that kind of fear of failure. But there

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<v Speaker 2>can be some unhelpful thought patterns attached to it as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So these might be thoughts like what we call the

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<v Speaker 2>optimism bias, so I'll feel like doing it later. It's

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of false optimism. I don't feel like doing

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<v Speaker 2>it now, but I'll feel like doing it later, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to wait for that feeling to come about

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<v Speaker 2>because that will motivate me to get the task done.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice in theory, but usually doesn't work that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So are we like lying to ourselves in that

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<v Speaker 1>moment when we say that subconsciously?

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Mostly. I mean if you are the sort of person

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<v Speaker 2>and you have the experience in the past of going

0:11:13.599 --> 0:11:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I know that I will feel like it later and

0:11:15.319 --> 0:11:18.199
<v Speaker 2>I can run with that, then great, okay, But for

0:11:18.319 --> 0:11:22.040
<v Speaker 2>most of us, the feeling will come once we start.

0:11:22.959 --> 0:11:25.679
<v Speaker 2>It's not often that the kind of feeling of motivation

0:11:25.839 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to do my taxes is going to just magically appear.

0:11:28.599 --> 0:11:29.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true.

0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.479
<v Speaker 2>So there's this kind of optimism bias where we're biased

0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.279
<v Speaker 2>in thinking that at a later point in time we'll

0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.079
<v Speaker 2>feel more motivated to do it, and that's not how

0:11:36.119 --> 0:11:39.559
<v Speaker 2>motivation works. Motivation typically works by us starting a task

0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and then building upon that, and once we start, we

0:11:42.119 --> 0:11:44.920
<v Speaker 2>generally feel more motivated to keep going and complete it.

0:11:45.319 --> 0:11:48.880
<v Speaker 2>So there's this optimism bias. There's also sometimes a bit

0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.040
<v Speaker 2>of a planning fallacy, and again I think this is

0:11:52.079 --> 0:11:55.719
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of us sometimes lying to ourselves, where

0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.519
<v Speaker 2>we maybe tell ourselves a task won't actually take as

0:11:59.599 --> 0:12:02.040
<v Speaker 2>long to get done as we think, or the task

0:12:02.079 --> 0:12:05.960
<v Speaker 2>won't require as much effort as it actually will. This

0:12:06.119 --> 0:12:09.400
<v Speaker 2>is a way of kind of minimizing the requirements of

0:12:09.439 --> 0:12:12.000
<v Speaker 2>the task and being like, I'll do it later because

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 2>it only takes me like twenty minutes to do it,

0:12:13.839 --> 0:12:16.319
<v Speaker 2>when in reality it probably won't take me twenty minutes

0:12:16.359 --> 0:12:18.359
<v Speaker 2>to do it, or I'll do it at the end

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.719
<v Speaker 2>of the day, when actually at the end of the day,

0:12:20.719 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm probably going to be most tired and less willing

0:12:23.599 --> 0:12:26.600
<v Speaker 2>to do it. So we can, you know, play sort

0:12:26.599 --> 0:12:30.080
<v Speaker 2>of little mental mind games and tricks and fall into

0:12:30.119 --> 0:12:34.199
<v Speaker 2>these unhelpful patterns of thinking that mean we delay a task,

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.439
<v Speaker 2>but it's not actually very good for us.

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's such an interesting one, the planning fallacy one,

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 1>because I feel like I'm the opposite where I can

0:12:43.239 --> 0:12:45.879
<v Speaker 1>overthink a task and like this is going to take

0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 1>me five hours and it can be quite dramatic with it,

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 1>but I actually can sit with it and you're like, oh, dang,

0:12:50.439 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 1>it took me an hour. Yes, so it's like I'm

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:53.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm going the other.

0:12:53.719 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Way, which is great when you do it and you

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 2>get that after effect of like, oh it wasn't as

0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>bad as I thought. Yeah, But on the flip side,

0:13:00.959 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 2>that this is going to take five hours can feel

0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 2>really overwhelming because it's where am I going to find

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.400
<v Speaker 2>five hours to fit this in and to do this task?

0:13:07.439 --> 0:13:07.600
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>That real big, overwhelming kind of approach can also have

0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.359
<v Speaker 2>the opposite effect where we then procrastinate because it feels

0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:14.839
<v Speaker 2>so big.

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:16.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's also hard. I mean, this is where

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.319
<v Speaker 1>we've got a blanket some self compassion in it, because

0:13:19.359 --> 0:13:22.279
<v Speaker 1>sometimes there's tasks that we haven't genuinely done before or

0:13:22.439 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 1>their new tasks, so we don't actually know how long

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 1>it's going to take as well.

0:13:26.239 --> 0:13:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's true. That's true.

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.199
<v Speaker 1>So I feel like the word procrastination can often get villainized.

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Is there any good to procrastination?

0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:41.439
<v Speaker 2>Well, to procrastination itself, to delaying task? Right, if we're

0:13:41.479 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 2>talking about procrastination is delaying tasks sometimes, like you know,

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.559
<v Speaker 2>if I have something I really need to focus on

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 2>right now, and this other task can wait then delaying

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 2>it is a useful approach, but I kind of wouldn't

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 2>necessarily call that procrastination. Procrastination is when we're intentionally putting

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.279
<v Speaker 2>things off that we know we need to do. What

0:14:01.319 --> 0:14:05.199
<v Speaker 2>I would say is there is a usefulness to sometimes

0:14:05.239 --> 0:14:09.639
<v Speaker 2>feelings of anxiety slash stress, because that's often what might

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 2>be underlying the feeling of wanting to delay something. So

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.239
<v Speaker 2>there's actually something called the yerkx Dodson law, Yes, the

0:14:17.359 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 2>law about the law. So essentially what it is if

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 2>you can imagine an upside down U shape, right, So

0:14:25.479 --> 0:14:29.279
<v Speaker 2>there is a level of stress. And when I'm talking

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>about stress, I'm really talking about kind of a physiological stress.

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>To think of it like energy or adrenaline, not like

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, debilitating worry. Yeah, there's a level of stress

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.239
<v Speaker 2>that can be helpful for us when we're trying to

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 2>get tasks done. So if you imagine the upside down

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 2>U shape, if you're on the very end of the

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of you where you have no stress whatsoever, this

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 2>means we don't really have much motivation to get things done.

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>So it actually can be really hard if we have

0:14:57.359 --> 0:15:00.999
<v Speaker 2>no stress to get the task done. On the other end,

0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 2>of the U. When we have extreme amounts of stress,

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.119
<v Speaker 2>this can also be debilitating because we're not in the

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 2>right mind frame, we're not in the right sort of

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.960
<v Speaker 2>physiological state to actually get the task done. So there's

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 2>this optimal level in the middle, at the peak of

0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.200
<v Speaker 2>our you where we have some stress in the body,

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.239
<v Speaker 2>and that means that we're actually quite effective at getting

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 2>the task done and getting it done with a degree

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 2>of efficiency and accuracy as well.

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I really love the visual diagram because I'm just

0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:31.680
<v Speaker 1>seeing it now and it's just going to be a

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.399
<v Speaker 1>good check for me next time when I'm stressing out

0:15:34.479 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 1>or procrastinating being like, Okay, where am I at with

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.999
<v Speaker 1>this law? Yeah, at the Yerkstudson law.

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.479
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And when you feel that like a little bit

0:15:42.479 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>of stress there that's kind of niggling almost like lean

0:15:45.239 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 2>into that and use that and be like, right now's

0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>my moment, I've got a little bit of that stress

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.879
<v Speaker 2>kind of happening. I can lean into that and actually

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>use that to motivate me to get the task done,

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 2>because when the stress gets to the other end and

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.280
<v Speaker 2>it's overwhelming, we're probably not getting much done there.

0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, for me, my inner critic voice can

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>get louder sometimes, especially when I'm procrastinating. Is that a

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 1>normal thing?

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.239
<v Speaker 2>It's very common. Ye, it's unfortunately common because people know

0:16:09.359 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 2>they have a task that needs to get done and

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.359
<v Speaker 2>they do want to do it. It's not that we

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 2>don't want to do it, we just don't want to

0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>have to go through the process of doing it. We

0:16:16.239 --> 0:16:18.440
<v Speaker 2>want it done without having to do it totally, and

0:16:18.479 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 2>so we know we need to do it, we know

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 2>it might be really important as well, But there is

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.600
<v Speaker 2>that part of us that in a critic that comes

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>up and that can be really mean and harsh towards

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.759
<v Speaker 2>us when, as we said, sometimes things are just hard

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 2>to do. Sometimes they feel quite overwhelming. Sometimes they don't

0:16:34.359 --> 0:16:36.879
<v Speaker 2>feel personally important to us, and we almost kind of

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 2>resent the fact we have to do them. But that

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.359
<v Speaker 2>inner critic can make the whole process so much harder

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 2>to deal with.

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>So true. Thank god I'm not alone. So when it

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.359
<v Speaker 1>comes to procrastination, the hardest part is always starting. So

0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.040
<v Speaker 1>how do we start building momentum?

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 2>The hardest part is starting, and I want to say

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.920
<v Speaker 2>sometimes the most important part is starting. Yeah, momentum and

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 2>motivation comes once we start. So that's why the start

0:17:11.879 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 2>is so important. If we wait for motivation to come,

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.439
<v Speaker 2>we'll be probably waiting a really long time. So we

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 2>have to find ways to make the start feel as

0:17:22.159 --> 0:17:26.159
<v Speaker 2>easy as possible. And typically what we recommend is break

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 2>the task down into its smallest components, and I would

0:17:30.399 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 2>often recommend find the easiest part to do first. So

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 2>if it's you know, I'm going to use the example

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 2>of doing your taxes, right, if you have the task

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.639
<v Speaker 2>of doing your taxes, the idea of doing my taxes

0:17:42.679 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 2>feels big and overwhelming and oh my gosh, it's going

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 2>to take hours and I'm going to have to do

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.960
<v Speaker 2>so much and go through so much paperwork. Yeah, what's

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.600
<v Speaker 2>the first the first part of it. Maybe the first

0:17:51.679 --> 0:17:54.680
<v Speaker 2>part is just gathering a bunch of papers and receipts,

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>you know. Maybe it's just putting everything in a pile

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 2>together on the desk, And that's the first step. Find

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the first step and make it as small and as

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.920
<v Speaker 2>easy as possible. And that's important to start this kind

0:18:06.919 --> 0:18:09.679
<v Speaker 2>of trajectory of motivation to come from there. And I

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 2>love that it sounds simple, It sounds a bit cliched,

0:18:13.639 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 2>but it is effective.

0:18:14.919 --> 0:18:17.039
<v Speaker 1>So have you found that effective for you breaking it up.

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes'm I mean I'm not a typical procrastinator. I like

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.800
<v Speaker 2>to do I'm II lean the opposite way. I like

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 2>to do things as soon as they like come into

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 2>my orbit.

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:29.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I love that.

0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.239
<v Speaker 2>But I will say the one thing, well, one of

0:18:33.399 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 2>things that I did procrastinate was when I had to

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.480
<v Speaker 2>start writing my book. I procrastinated that for about a month.

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I only had like a six month deadline, so a

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>month felt like a long time to produce the manuscript.

0:18:44.919 --> 0:18:49.119
<v Speaker 2>But I delayed it because it felt like once I started,

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.200
<v Speaker 2>then I've started. But before I start, I haven't yet

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.999
<v Speaker 2>started writing. So it was almost this like fake reassurance.

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Well I haven't started yet. I haven't. I've still got time.

0:18:56.879 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I haven't started yet. And I remember I was like, okay, Anastasia,

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 2>you just need to create the document that you're going

0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.200
<v Speaker 2>to start writing in. And I remember like the day

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.560
<v Speaker 2>where I like sat down and was like, I'm making

0:19:09.639 --> 0:19:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the document and this is the start of the book.

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 2>And I just put the title there and that's all

0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.199
<v Speaker 2>I did. But I started. It was like literally as

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 2>simple as just starting a word document and that was it.

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.439
<v Speaker 2>I didn't put any more pressure on myself, and I

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 2>knew that it would sort of come once I ripped

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.479
<v Speaker 2>off that band aid and started that first part. But

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 2>that first part I did delay, but just breaking it

0:19:31.399 --> 0:19:33.279
<v Speaker 2>down into the smallest part of like you just got

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.840
<v Speaker 2>to start a document that made it feel more manageable.

0:19:35.879 --> 0:19:38.239
<v Speaker 2>And I just had to focus on right now, not

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.479
<v Speaker 2>on finishing it, not on the end point, but just

0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:42.640
<v Speaker 2>on doing the thing that I have to do right now,

0:19:42.679 --> 0:19:43.879
<v Speaker 2>this one simple task.

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 1>I really love that because essentially we're wanting to create

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a winnable game for ourselves, Like every task we do,

0:19:48.919 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>it's a game. And I think when we can show

0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.519
<v Speaker 1>ourselves like, oh, look we did that one thing. We

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 1>put a title on that document.

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's a win.

0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>It is, and it's celebrating the small wins, that takes

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>that pressure off. Yeah.

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And I think to kind of build on this

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 2>com about sort of time management and structural techniques. When

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 2>it comes to addressing procrastination. There is something called the

0:20:11.679 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Pomodoro technique. So this again is about time management and

0:20:15.919 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>breaking tasks down, but it's more about time intervals rather

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>than pieces of the task itself. So the suggestion is

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.479
<v Speaker 2>to try and improve focus in productivity. We work on

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 2>a single task for twenty five minutes, take a five

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.080
<v Speaker 2>minute break, and then repeat this cycle. And after you've

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.159
<v Speaker 2>done four rounds of this, you take longer breaks of

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:37.600
<v Speaker 2>fifteen to thirty minutes.

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, And that's effective.

0:20:39.639 --> 0:20:43.440
<v Speaker 2>It is effective, And I like it because it's prescriptive.

0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.639
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes when we're struggling to find our own self

0:20:47.679 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>motivation or self regulation, having a prescribed pathway can be

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:55.280
<v Speaker 2>useful to lean on.

0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, So, I know you've given us some really

0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 1>great practical time management skills, but when it comes to procrastination,

0:21:03.159 --> 0:21:05.959
<v Speaker 1>it isn't all about time management, right, because there's stuff

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.640
<v Speaker 1>going on underneath, So like, how do we address that?

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 2>The time management is a real sort of practical sort

0:21:12.159 --> 0:21:14.480
<v Speaker 2>of way to approach it. But as we said before,

0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 2>there's these emotional underpinnings at a lot of the time

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.159
<v Speaker 2>that can be related to sort of fear or overwhelm.

0:21:20.639 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 2>I think this is where it's really important for us

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.239
<v Speaker 2>to reflect on what's actually underneath my procrastination. What am

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I feeling? Why am I feeling this urge to procrastinate

0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 2>this task and put it off? Is it that I'm

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.759
<v Speaker 2>worried about the failure potential failure? Is it that I

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>feel like I need to get it one hundred percent right,

0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.440
<v Speaker 2>that I resent the fact I have to do this task.

0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.919
<v Speaker 2>If we can address and find those underlying feelings getting

0:21:48.919 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 2>in the way of the procrastination, then we can work

0:21:51.879 --> 0:21:54.239
<v Speaker 2>with those feelings. We can sort of challenge some of

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.879
<v Speaker 2>those those emotions and thoughts attached to the emotions. We

0:21:57.919 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 2>can journal about it, we can kind of work through

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the feelings to take away a layer of a barrier

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>to that procrastination.

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 1>So what about the environment when it comes to breaking

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.119
<v Speaker 1>through procrastination and building that momentum.

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:18.879
<v Speaker 2>I would recommend an environment that is quite clear, you know,

0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.879
<v Speaker 2>clear of distractions. We don't want too many distractions in

0:22:21.919 --> 0:22:24.880
<v Speaker 2>the space. We want it to not be an environment

0:22:24.919 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 2>where maybe we usually do other things. So often we

0:22:27.399 --> 0:22:29.439
<v Speaker 2>recommend to people, you know, don't sit and try and

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.280
<v Speaker 2>do work in bed, for example, because bed is attached

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 2>to sleep, not attached to work. Guilty, and we might

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.719
<v Speaker 2>be more likely to just open Netflix rather than actually

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of do the task in front of us. Again,

0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>this is with a grain of salt. If you find

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.959
<v Speaker 2>you work really well in bed and can also sleep

0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.080
<v Speaker 2>really well, then keep going. But for those of us

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.760
<v Speaker 2>who might procrastinate, don't try and work in bed or

0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.199
<v Speaker 2>sometimes even in your room. I know that's not always

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.680
<v Speaker 2>possible for people who might be living in spaces where

0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the only place they can work for is in their bedroom,

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.919
<v Speaker 2>but if possible, maybe not working in the bedroom. It

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 2>might be sort of taking yourself to a different space.

0:23:04.639 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Some people will find working in a cafe can be

0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:08.919
<v Speaker 2>really effective for them, so taking themselves to a space

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.439
<v Speaker 2>that's away from their kind of usual environment.

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love that you were really unpacking environment because

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>for me, I can operate very differently because I like

0:23:17.679 --> 0:23:21.600
<v Speaker 1>to romanticize my space, so lights and candles, incense. I

0:23:21.679 --> 0:23:24.439
<v Speaker 1>might even create a bit of a reward system for myself,

0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.919
<v Speaker 1>being like, okay, Shannie, you can have a mucha after

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.160
<v Speaker 1>you get through this task. It's still a reward even

0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.480
<v Speaker 1>though I have it every day. But I think creating

0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.600
<v Speaker 1>a cozy space for me feels like it just allows

0:23:35.639 --> 0:23:38.119
<v Speaker 1>it to feel a little bit more enjoyable. So it

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:39.880
<v Speaker 1>is you know, it is going to be different for everyone,

0:23:39.919 --> 0:23:40.879
<v Speaker 1>and that's okay too.

0:23:41.159 --> 0:23:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely, sometimes people will find a lot of comfort

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 2>in that romanticized space as you said for others, it'll

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.479
<v Speaker 2>feel too comfortable and they'll not want to do the

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.600
<v Speaker 2>work or the hard task. So it depends on the

0:23:52.639 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 2>person totally.

0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:55.720
<v Speaker 1>And I think something that's really worked for me, And

0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.160
<v Speaker 1>it's an interesting one because I know we have all

0:23:58.159 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 1>sorts of people tuning in, but I know for me

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 1>being a woman, and you know, whether it's people that

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.399
<v Speaker 1>have wombs as well, knowing that women operate on a

0:24:06.399 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty eight day cycle, you know, because I think we're

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:13.359
<v Speaker 1>used to that more masculine consistency, twenty four hour clock,

0:24:13.399 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 1>but our bodies aren't designed like that. And that's been

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 1>a massive breakthrough for me because I'm tracking where I'm

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.840
<v Speaker 1>at in my different phases on my cycle. So right

0:24:21.919 --> 0:24:25.280
<v Speaker 1>now I'm giving you all insight into my cycle. But

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm like in my late lou Tell phase, So that's

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.759
<v Speaker 1>when I feel a lot more tired. I'm like not

0:24:30.919 --> 0:24:33.560
<v Speaker 1>my energy is dipping, So that's when I can ramp

0:24:33.639 --> 0:24:36.359
<v Speaker 1>up my self compassion, and then that also helps me

0:24:36.399 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 1>to know what environment I want to be in. I

0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:41.639
<v Speaker 1>want to be horizontal while doing my work and that's okay,

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:43.879
<v Speaker 1>you know. So I think it's really nice that we

0:24:43.919 --> 0:24:45.879
<v Speaker 1>can bring more of an awareness to it because I

0:24:45.879 --> 0:24:48.280
<v Speaker 1>think it's like a new dialogue that's coming through for women.

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely, and on a broad level, just this idea

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 2>that we're not consistent as people. You know, we're going

0:24:56.399 --> 0:24:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to vary in terms of our mood, how we're feeling,

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.359
<v Speaker 2>how much energy we have, and that's going to impact

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 2>our ability to get things done in the day. Herb Hearb, Hearb.

0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm cowving a serious crisis. BRB having a crisis.

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:18.880
<v Speaker 1>We've reached that time in our episode where we answer

0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 1>a question or dilemma from one of you Anaesthesia. This

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:23.480
<v Speaker 1>one comes from Eve.

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if this is procrastination or if it's

0:25:26.639 --> 0:25:29.800
<v Speaker 3>something deeper, but I find myself putting things off, even

0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:32.320
<v Speaker 3>things that I really want to do. Like I'll look

0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:33.800
<v Speaker 3>forward to the weekend and I think I'm going to

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:36.399
<v Speaker 3>start this brand new project. I've been excited about it

0:25:36.399 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 3>for months, and then on the weekend, I'll just spend

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.399
<v Speaker 3>the time like cleaning, watching videos on my phone, and

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 3>just doing anything except like the project that I really

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 3>care about doing. And with this comes a massive like

0:25:48.159 --> 0:25:51.600
<v Speaker 3>shame spiral. I beat myself up. I'm always telling myself

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 3>that I'm lazy and unmotivated and just like not disciplined

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:57.719
<v Speaker 3>enough to follow stuff through. But I don't think that

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.520
<v Speaker 3>voice is helping. If anything, it's probably making it harder

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:03.119
<v Speaker 3>for me to get started. Why do I keep avoiding

0:26:03.159 --> 0:26:05.679
<v Speaker 3>the things that matter to me? And how do I

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:08.199
<v Speaker 3>stop feeling so much shame around it?

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Great? Self aware? Does Eve?

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 2>I agree?

0:26:12.159 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:26:12.399 --> 0:26:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I agree, especially recognizing that that shame spiral isn't probably helping.

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:20.159
<v Speaker 2>Right when I was listening to this, I was thinking

0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 2>about that productive procrastination sort of category that we were

0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.080
<v Speaker 2>talking about. Not that they're sort of clinical definitions of procrastination,

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 2>but these sort of subtypes we can fall into. They're

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.360
<v Speaker 2>sort of cleaning the house instead of starting that project

0:26:31.399 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 2>that you want to start. I would recommend to Eve

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 2>to think about what's getting in the way of starting

0:26:37.399 --> 0:26:40.840
<v Speaker 2>that project. Is it that it feels too big and

0:26:40.919 --> 0:26:43.159
<v Speaker 2>overwhelming and you're just not really sure where to start.

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Is it that you're worried about starting it and not

0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 2>being successful or there being some sort of failure along

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the way. Do you feel like, perhaps you know, once

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 2>you start it, then it's real, you've sort of committed

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:57.920
<v Speaker 2>to it, and there's something scary about that. I would say,

0:26:57.919 --> 0:27:01.879
<v Speaker 2>spend some time thinking about the fear or the emotions

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.280
<v Speaker 2>underlying the procrastination for you and what getting in the way,

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:07.679
<v Speaker 2>and once you're able to identify that, you'll be able

0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:10.520
<v Speaker 2>to figure out ways to move past it. As we've

0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.200
<v Speaker 2>said before as well, starting small is the best way.

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Where they say you eat an elephant one bite at

0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 2>a time, or whatever the saying is, that's not the saying.

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I hope I got that right. If not, that will

0:27:21.399 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 2>sound terrible.

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:23.360
<v Speaker 1>We're a leading elephants now.

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:27.560
<v Speaker 2>But it really is the idea of just like taking

0:27:27.639 --> 0:27:29.679
<v Speaker 2>it one chunk at a time, figure out what that

0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:31.959
<v Speaker 2>first step is with this project that you've got your

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.479
<v Speaker 2>mind set on, and what's the very first small step

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.160
<v Speaker 2>that you can take to get started on that. And

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:41.240
<v Speaker 2>as for the shame spiral and the self criticism, you're

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:43.999
<v Speaker 2>absolutely right that this is probably not helping you. So

0:27:44.159 --> 0:27:46.680
<v Speaker 2>in that case, i'd actually recommend you check back in

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Without Inner Critic episode all about self criticism to find

0:27:50.679 --> 0:27:53.959
<v Speaker 2>out some ways to combat that critical inner voice.

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.679
<v Speaker 1>You've got this Eve, let us know how you go

0:27:56.760 --> 0:28:02.080
<v Speaker 1>with breaking up at it. Anastasia, can you summarize all

0:28:02.159 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 1>of the latest takeaways we got from this episode sure can.

0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:09.879
<v Speaker 2>First of all, procrastination is a normal, natural, common behavior

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.639
<v Speaker 2>that everyone does. Second, some people might fall into the

0:28:13.679 --> 0:28:17.400
<v Speaker 2>category of chronic procrastinators if they find themselves doing it

0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:21.999
<v Speaker 2>too much and in excess. Third, starting is the best

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:26.719
<v Speaker 2>way to overcome procrastination, So find the smallest first step

0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>you can possibly do and build from there. And then, lastly,

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>remember to hold compassion for yourself if you do find

0:28:33.679 --> 0:28:36.119
<v Speaker 2>yourself falling into the procrastination trap.

0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 1>If you have a burning question for us, there are

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.040
<v Speaker 1>a few ways to get in contact with us, links

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:42.999
<v Speaker 1>through in the show notes.

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.800
<v Speaker 2>And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't

0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:49.600
<v Speaker 2>a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas that we

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:53.360
<v Speaker 2>present here should always take into account your personal medical history.

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 1>On next week's episode, we're going to be talking about

0:28:56.560 --> 0:29:00.720
<v Speaker 1>different ways to grieve, what's healthy and what's not. Tune

0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:01.479
<v Speaker 1>in next week.

0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 2>The senior producer of But Are You Happy?

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Is Tarlie Blackman, Executive producer is Naima Brown, and Social

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 1>producer is Jemma Donaho.

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Sound design and editing by Tina Madalov.

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>You can find us on Instagram and TikTok search at

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 1>but Are You Happy? Pod. I'm a Shani Dante and.

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm doctor Anastatia Heronus. The names and stories of clients

0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.480
<v Speaker 2>If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you,

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 2>we have links for more resources in the show notes

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 2>around the topics we discussed today. If you are wanting

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 2>more immediate support, you can also reach out to organizations

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 2>like Lifeline or Beyond Blue.

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening, See you next time.

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.959
<v Speaker 2>waters that this podcast is recorded on.