Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to biz Your Work Life Sorted. I'm
Speaker 2: m Vernon and today we're talking about revenge quitting. Apparently
Speaker 2: it's going to be twenty twenty five's biggest career trend.
Speaker 2: And honestly, look, I have some thoughts. So you know
Speaker 2: how when you're just like really angry about work and
Speaker 2: you have that fantasy where you dramatically quit your job
Speaker 2: and leave your terrible boss in the lurch. Well, according
Speaker 2: to TikTok, people are actually doing that, like a lot
Speaker 2: of people. So today our career coaches Michelle Battisby and
Speaker 2: Sophhurst are breaking down whether revenge quitting is actually worth it.
Speaker 2: Michelle is an entrepreneur who launched Bumble in Australia and
Speaker 2: now runs her own startup called Sunroom, and sof took
Speaker 2: the leap from Google to launch work Baby. It's a
Speaker 2: career coaching program for people in their early career era
Speaker 2: like myself. So Michelle actually did a video on revenge quitting.
Speaker 2: She posted on TikTok and it went viral. Here's what
Speaker 2: she had to say.
Speaker 3: Revenge quitting it's essentially where you get fed up resentment
Speaker 3: has built up, and you leave abruptly with no warning.
Speaker 3: Experts are saying that this is happening predominantly amongst young people,
Speaker 3: and they're saying it's because younger people don't know how
Speaker 3: to deal with complex issues in the workplace and they
Speaker 3: want to leave their employers in shitty positions.
Speaker 4: They're kind of doing it out of spite.
Speaker 3: You don't owe it to your employer to hang around
Speaker 3: if you're not happy.
Speaker 4: Everyone is replaceable. I know that can feel hard to hear.
Speaker 3: You do owe it to yourself, though, to get the
Speaker 3: best outcomes and revenge.
Speaker 2: Quitting is all over TikTok. Right now, this is your
Speaker 2: sign to quit your job.
Speaker 4: I've just quit my full time job and I've got.
Speaker 1: No plan, no money, no next job, but I feel
Speaker 1: free away from toxicity.
Speaker 5: WHOA, I'm going to be submitting my noticement else day
Speaker 5: is going to be on Friday. Also, didn't give two weeks.
Speaker 5: I just got a text that said the short notice
Speaker 5: leaves a sour taste up departure. How are you going
Speaker 5: to lay people off and give them no notice but
Speaker 5: them when I am giving you all like four days notice.
Speaker 6: I was so scared to leave my toxic job, for
Speaker 6: fear of having that gap in my resume, for fear
Speaker 6: of having people ask why I was only there for
Speaker 6: eleven months, for fear of having people ask why would
Speaker 6: I leave a title end company that were successful? Why
Speaker 6: would I walk away from that? But the reality is
Speaker 6: the title, the job, the status, all of it was
Speaker 6: not worth my mental health. I would cry almost daily
Speaker 6: having to walk into that office. I mean, I blew
Speaker 6: up my life quitting that job, but I don't regret
Speaker 6: it at all.
Speaker 2: I have a spoiler. There might actually be a way
Speaker 2: to get revenge on your toxic workplace without totally destroying
Speaker 2: your career. Let's get it to it.
Speaker 7: Michelle, you posted a video on TikTok. It's kind of
Speaker 7: gone viral. I think it's up to close to a
Speaker 7: million views. Now what is going on?
Speaker 4: I have no idea, but I think it means it's
Speaker 4: a hot topic.
Speaker 1: It's wild.
Speaker 7: There's like five hundred messages. I feel like you've been
Speaker 7: flooded with dams.
Speaker 3: There's a bit of a generational war going on in
Speaker 3: the comments. There are a lot of gen Z's showing
Speaker 3: a lot of pride around the fact that they have
Speaker 3: revenge quit and then there's definitely what appears to be
Speaker 3: older generations saying, you know, don't burn bridges, it's not
Speaker 3: worth it. What are you going to do if you
Speaker 3: ever need a reference? Everything comes back around and those
Speaker 3: sorts of things. But I think in amongst all of that,
Speaker 3: some of the comments that have really stood out to
Speaker 3: me are the ones that are talking about the state
Speaker 3: of the economy and that it still is a bit
Speaker 3: more of an.
Speaker 4: Employer market out there.
Speaker 3: And so there are some people that have done this
Speaker 3: and they haven't been able to find jobs since. A
Speaker 3: bit of a word of warning there, which we'll definitely
Speaker 3: get into. But I'm curious, So, if you've ever had
Speaker 3: anyone in the teams you've managed quit in a way
Speaker 3: that would be detrimental to their future employment.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess I've never worked at a company that's
Speaker 7: been bad enough that people would want to quit in
Speaker 7: that way. But what I have actually seen, Michelle a
Speaker 7: lot is people, especially young people, will leave a job
Speaker 7: without having a conversation around what is actually making them unhappy,
Speaker 7: and then the leaders will like in a super genuine way,
Speaker 7: say we just wish they had have told us because
Speaker 7: we could have changed XOSA. So definitely. Not all problems
Speaker 7: can be solved at a company, you know, egotistical founders,
Speaker 7: leadership problems, culture fit, ethics, But I do think some
Speaker 7: problems can be solved. The number one reason that people
Speaker 7: hate their job, there's some stats behind this, but is
Speaker 7: often their manager, right, So I think it's seventy five
Speaker 7: percent of people in a study that will link the
Speaker 7: show notes said that their manager is the most stressful
Speaker 7: part of their job and that their manager, their direct manager,
Speaker 7: actually has more of an impact on their mental health
Speaker 7: than their therapist or a doctor. Managers have a massive
Speaker 7: impact on people and it can make people really unhappy.
Speaker 7: That is actually sometimes solvable, not all the time, but
Speaker 7: sometimes it might be can you move teams? Can you
Speaker 7: get yourself into positions where that person is not managing you?
Speaker 7: And some times it can be smaller things that are
Speaker 7: leading to bigger problems. So I'm pretty pro it's so hard,
Speaker 7: but try and have a conversation, working out the courage
Speaker 7: to actually have a conversation with the person that you
Speaker 7: have a problem with, and at least exploring or exhausting
Speaker 7: your options before you leave a job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that, and I think it ultimately comes
Speaker 3: down to what kind of person you are, I think,
Speaker 3: and what the circumstances are, and how much you love
Speaker 3: the company or the mission, and if you feel like
Speaker 3: it's worth working on. It's a little bit like a relationship,
Speaker 3: you know, like if you really love someone, you I
Speaker 3: want to have communicated clearly before you decide to walk
Speaker 3: out the door, so you leave with no regrets. There
Speaker 3: are many different ways to look at this, and I
Speaker 3: think it yeah, kind of comes down to how much
Speaker 3: you want to work on it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I totally agree. I think even if someone's like, well,
Speaker 7: that conversation sounds really hard, I don't even know what
Speaker 7: I would say. And again, this is really hard. I'm
Speaker 7: not saying it's easy, but it could be the type
Speaker 7: of thing where you say to a manager, I've got
Speaker 7: some feedback on how we work together. Our relationship is
Speaker 7: really important. I want to invest in making it good.
Speaker 7: Can we have a conversation around how we communicate, how
Speaker 7: we work together and I can share some of these
Speaker 7: things and just then, you know, taking observable examples and
Speaker 7: talking about how it impacts you. Just trying to do
Speaker 7: that before you quit a job can be helpful.
Speaker 3: I love that so much, all right, so we are
Speaker 3: also going to chat to an HI expert on all
Speaker 3: of this because we've got our own opinions, but we
Speaker 3: also want to make sure that everyone is hearing from
Speaker 3: someone who's seen it a million times before, and if
Speaker 3: there is a right or wrong way to quit your job.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I cannot wait. Quiet quitting made me sad, and
Speaker 7: revenge quitting is making me honestly scared. Michelle, what is
Speaker 7: revenge quitting and how is it different to just regular quitting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so revenge quitting is you're wanting to drive the
Speaker 3: knife in, like you're wanting to do a bit of damage.
Speaker 3: I think the key difference is regular quitting you're not
Speaker 3: really trying to stir the pot. You're just leaving quite amicably.
Speaker 3: You're giving your notice, you're working on your closing tasks handover.
Speaker 4: But revenge quitting might.
Speaker 3: Show up like you strategically leaving at a time where
Speaker 3: you know the business really needs you or they'll be
Speaker 3: at a loss without you on a certain project, and
Speaker 3: it's usually coupled with some damaging the behaviors like deleting
Speaker 3: work before you leave, maybe some it breaches, or potentially
Speaker 3: warning to publicly slam your ex employer either via social media,
Speaker 3: glassdoor reviews and things like that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is the part that actually scares me because
Speaker 7: it's like there's almost this normalization that happens because people
Speaker 7: are seeing other people talking about this a lot and
Speaker 7: showing their behaviors of how they're revenge quitting on social
Speaker 7: there's almost this normalization of that behavior that does scare me. Michelle.
Speaker 7: In the dms that people were leaving, did anyone give
Speaker 7: examples of how they revenge.
Speaker 3: Quit or there wasn't necessarily examples, but there was coming
Speaker 3: back to that a lot of pride, like I did
Speaker 3: this and don't regret it for a second.
Speaker 4: I must be a trendsetter because I did this last year.
Speaker 4: I do love this one. I'm revenge staying out of spite.
Speaker 4: There are other people.
Speaker 3: Saying, you know, people forget that when you apply to
Speaker 3: a new job they ask for reference answers.
Speaker 1: Be careful.
Speaker 3: There's people praising the younger generation, like I kind of
Speaker 3: love the younger gen for this, though companies show no
Speaker 3: loyalty to their employees, so it's just being reciprocated. And
Speaker 3: that is something that I also touched on in this
Speaker 3: TikTok Is it can be really hard to hear this.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't like hearing this, but everyone
Speaker 3: is replaceable in the workplace, Like at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, it is a transaction. And so that's why
Speaker 3: I have never subscribed to just hanging around. You're not happy,
Speaker 3: you're not being appreciated, you're not being developed because you
Speaker 3: think you have to or you have to, you know,
Speaker 3: reach a certain number and write that on your CV, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't subscribe to that. But I also don't think
Speaker 3: I subscribe to revenge quitting in the way it's been
Speaker 3: showing up in my comments, where it's like people think
Speaker 3: they have the upper hand when they revenge quit. I
Speaker 3: don't know if I'm really picking up through these comments
Speaker 3: that they necessarily do have the upper hand in the
Speaker 3: employment relationship. There were people naming and shaming, and I
Speaker 3: don't know if it's amazing. I'd love your opinion on
Speaker 3: this as well. But the social media shaming, I think
Speaker 3: can come across as a little bit emotional, and it's
Speaker 3: a little bit short term gain, like drive the knife
Speaker 3: in and drag someone through the mard, but long term,
Speaker 3: I think it could be really detrimental.
Speaker 7: Emotion is okay, at work, but you always want to
Speaker 7: be low drama. And I think the best piece of
Speaker 7: advice that I've ever had around this is that as
Speaker 7: much as possible at work, you want to respond, not react,
Speaker 7: and so react is high emotion. You're often in an
Speaker 7: unemotionally regulated state, and it's like this quick reaction. Responding
Speaker 7: is when you let those emotions settle and you actually
Speaker 7: kind of decide how you want to show up and
Speaker 7: how you want to respond to something. And just back
Speaker 7: to your point, Michelle, I think you know whether you
Speaker 7: want to react, to respond combined with this feel good
Speaker 7: short term just to have really long lasting impact on
Speaker 7: your career, Like that combined together is sort of what
Speaker 7: revenge quitting is, which what makes me nervous about it.
Speaker 7: I do agree that like there is something in this
Speaker 7: and that it's probably going to feel pretty good if
Speaker 7: an employer really has fed you over, so I'm not
Speaker 7: like totally against it, But Michelle, beyond just the kind
Speaker 7: of like how it's making people show up, there are
Speaker 7: actually some potential more serious dangers people should be aware of,
Speaker 7: Like what other things should people be thinking about if
Speaker 7: they're planning to revenge quit.
Speaker 3: I think when you're in that short term reactive mindset,
Speaker 3: you're not thinking that you're ever going to need that
Speaker 3: employer's reference ever again. But you made an amazing point
Speaker 3: the other day where you would just be blown away
Speaker 3: with how the ghosts from your network come back around
Speaker 3: further down the track, and you just can't bank on that.
Speaker 3: You can't bank on someone not back channeling and maybe
Speaker 3: going and asking about you, or you actually needing a
Speaker 3: reference from that workplace in the future.
Speaker 7: Your reputation is the thing that walks into a room
Speaker 7: before you and so leaving and damaging your reputation either
Speaker 7: with like individual people or with a company. It actually
Speaker 7: just closes doors. Right if you're early in your career,
Speaker 7: like you haven't experienced this yet, it will explode your
Speaker 7: brain the way people from your work past then like
Speaker 7: get reintroduced to you. Someone will be like, oh, you're
Speaker 7: working on this new project. Here's the stakeholder that you're
Speaker 7: working with, and it's someone that you screwed over, or
Speaker 7: in reverse, it's someone that screwed you over, and you're like,
Speaker 7: hello again, old friends. So protect your reputation and just
Speaker 7: like quickly also think about some more serious dangers, things
Speaker 7: like company documents are the property of the company. So
Speaker 7: you go in deleting files or like taking things with you,
Speaker 7: there are some potential legal risks you so like some
Speaker 7: stuff is serious and think about that. But also just yet,
Speaker 7: as you said, Michelle, like not having that reference burning
Speaker 7: those bridges.
Speaker 3: I think there is also another way to look at
Speaker 3: all of this, which I touch on in the TikTok,
Speaker 3: which is some accountability does need to be taken by
Speaker 3: the employers as well.
Speaker 4: And I think if you are the.
Speaker 3: Kind of employer or you're a manager where this sort
Speaker 3: of thing is happening time and time again in your
Speaker 3: team or company, then you are actually the problem.
Speaker 4: That is a huge red flag, and I think.
Speaker 3: That's when the reputational side of things actually flips, and you,
Speaker 3: as an employer will start to get a bad reputation
Speaker 3: and you won't be able to attract top talent. Because
Speaker 3: backchanneling happens in all areas of the employment relationship. Glassdoor
Speaker 3: is obviously like a huge one, and sometimes these stories
Speaker 3: do go viral on social media where it is a
Speaker 3: pretty serious and pretty bad look for the employer.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 7: I actually think there's some power in it, and I
Speaker 7: sort of started thinking like could revenge quitting actually be
Speaker 7: a good thing? And there were some comments on your video,
Speaker 7: someone saying I revenge quit and my company took me
Speaker 7: back for fifty k more. Another person saying, my boss's
Speaker 7: cared both times I revenge quit, they called me to
Speaker 7: join a week later on a higher daily rate. But
Speaker 7: also someone else just saying younger generations are much more
Speaker 7: courageous than us. Millennials need to do better. And I
Speaker 7: do think there is some power in that, in saying
Speaker 7: you can't treat a whole workforce badly without there being ramifications,
Speaker 7: and we are going to talk about it and we
Speaker 7: are going to have our voice. I do think there
Speaker 7: is a positive side to it too.
Speaker 3: Both of us don't think that you should stay in
Speaker 3: a work environment where you're not feeling appreciated, you're not
Speaker 3: feeling like you can work collaboratively with senior.
Speaker 4: Leaders, you're not growing. It is not worth it.
Speaker 3: And because everyone is replaceable, that really drives that home
Speaker 3: for me again, like it is not worth your sanity
Speaker 3: to stay in that kind of an environment. I'm all
Speaker 3: for getting up and walking out the door when it
Speaker 3: no longer serves you, but doing it with grace. We'll
Speaker 3: take you further later down the track.
Speaker 7: Okay, so you've heard from the perspective of Michelle and I.
Speaker 7: I think it's time we bring in an expert. Up next,
Speaker 7: we speak to a recruitment and talent expert who knows
Speaker 7: all about the art of quitting.
Speaker 3: Okay, we are joined by Nichola Squires, who is a
Speaker 3: recruitment and talent expert with ten years experience in banking
Speaker 3: and finance.
Speaker 4: And Nikola was also my first work wife.
Speaker 3: So this is a live demonstration of your network coming
Speaker 3: back around a decade later.
Speaker 4: Nikola, Welcome to VIZ.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Michelle, it's great to be here.
Speaker 3: We are talking all about quitting and specifically if there
Speaker 3: is a right or wrong way to quit your job.
Speaker 3: So Nicola, be straight up with us. Do you think
Speaker 3: there's a right or wrong way to quit?
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think there's a wrong way to quit,
Speaker 1: but there is most definitely a wrong way to exit
Speaker 1: an organization. So we call it managing your exit now,
Speaker 1: especially if you're in a role you feel like you've
Speaker 1: made a really significant contribution to an organization, you felt underappreciated,
Speaker 1: you decided okay, it's time to move on. From the firm.
Speaker 1: You've gone out, You've secured a fantastic role in another organization,
Speaker 1: You've got an incredible pay rise, you're really excited about
Speaker 1: the team that you're going to be joining. You then
Speaker 1: land in a position where you're standing staring down the
Speaker 1: barrel of a one two three month notice period and
Speaker 1: maintaining motivation through that period is supremely challenging, but it
Speaker 1: is so important. Essentially, you will be remembered for your
Speaker 1: last work, and if you're not managing that process well,
Speaker 1: you will then undermine all of that hard work that
Speaker 1: you've done over your career in that organization, or you
Speaker 1: can do. I mean, then there's so many elements to it.
Speaker 1: You really need to go out strong. You need to
Speaker 1: work in partnership with your management team as you're leaving.
Speaker 1: This is things like wrapping out and doing candovers, making
Speaker 1: sure that any work that only you are holding or
Speaker 1: you have the key to is wrapped up in a
Speaker 1: really nice end to meet way. It's also about communication, so,
Speaker 1: for example, firms might want you to communicate your departure
Speaker 1: in a specific way. You need to stick to that.
Speaker 1: It could be very tempting, especially if you feel underappreciated
Speaker 1: that specific situation to go around talk about the new
Speaker 1: opportunity you got, all the reasons why, and start bad
Speaker 1: mouthing individuals within your management hierarchy. That is a definite no.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 4: I love what you said.
Speaker 3: You'll be remembered for your last work, and we put
Speaker 3: our best face forward when we enter an organization.
Speaker 4: I do feel like we should do the same when
Speaker 4: we leave. But a question that popped.
Speaker 3: Up as you were speaking, actually, do you think you
Speaker 3: should always have a new role before you resign?
Speaker 1: No, not necessarily. I mean with everything here, it's so circumstantial.
Speaker 1: If you're in a position where you know an organization
Speaker 1: isn't right for you anymore, and you feel comfortable from
Speaker 1: a financial position that you can actually wrap things up
Speaker 1: well there and then use some downtime to really search.
Speaker 1: Especially if you have finessed exactly what it is that
Speaker 1: you want for your next role, you know that you're
Speaker 1: going to need to put time, effort, and energy into that.
Speaker 1: If you want to say, look, let's part ways here,
Speaker 1: I will do a handover, I will wrap up here
Speaker 1: and then start exploring other opportunities. I don't think there
Speaker 1: is any issues with that at all. In fact, it's
Speaker 1: actually very appealing as someone who's hiring to have a
Speaker 1: strong profile in front of you and know that they
Speaker 1: can start immediately. That is something that is a huge
Speaker 1: advantage or can be a huge advantage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is an effort peak perspective that I think
Speaker 3: would help a lot of our listeners. This leads into
Speaker 3: my next question, which is how do you know that
Speaker 3: it's the right time to leave a role.
Speaker 1: I think if we just look at a standard scenario,
Speaker 1: it's when you feel like you have capped out your
Speaker 1: great potential in that particular role. And that's not for everyone.
Speaker 1: Not everybody wants to continually move all of the time.
Speaker 1: But I think roughly, you're in a role in a
Speaker 1: seat for twelve months, you have kind of done a
Speaker 1: full cycle, You've mastered it, you understand what needs to
Speaker 1: happen there. You then have six to twelve months more
Speaker 1: of operating with like your full masterfull ship under your belt,
Speaker 1: and then it's time to start looking. Now. That can
Speaker 1: be a lateral move within the organization. You might be
Speaker 1: going from a sales seat into a product team or
Speaker 1: something along those lines. It could be a jump to
Speaker 1: a managerial role, and if those opportunities don't exist in
Speaker 1: the organization that you are sitting under. That's when you
Speaker 1: need to start looking externally. That's kind of a generic
Speaker 1: of circumstances. I think if you're in an environment where
Speaker 1: there's been a cultural change which means you are no
Speaker 1: longer enjoying the role, so that could be a changing
Speaker 1: strategy of the firm, which means fundamentally your day to
Speaker 1: day job looks completely different and it's not what you
Speaker 1: want to be doing, then that is a good trigger.
Speaker 1: But moving on from a role could be a management change.
Speaker 1: Do you now have a manager whose style does not
Speaker 1: align with the style in which you like to be managed.
Speaker 1: That could be a trigger to move on from a role.
Speaker 1: There's a variety of triggers and it really just depends
Speaker 1: on the circumstances. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that you brought up twelve months because I
Speaker 3: think traditionally people have felt like they have to stick
Speaker 3: it out to reach a certain number that I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe was implemented by society.
Speaker 4: I think back in the old days, people would work.
Speaker 3: At companies for five, ten, fifteen years, and I think
Speaker 3: it was really our generation. I've even forgot what general
Speaker 3: we are gen why are we gen Why started to
Speaker 3: jump around.
Speaker 1: When millennials I'm a millennial. Yeah, I think you're a
Speaker 1: customer millennials.
Speaker 3: As we'll go with that, we started to kind of
Speaker 3: jump around a little bit more. Do you think that
Speaker 3: there is a certain amount of time you need to
Speaker 3: stick it out in a role that looks good or
Speaker 3: maybe is a red flag on paper?
Speaker 1: I think your CV essentially needs to tell a story.
Speaker 1: So if you're staying seven months in a role and
Speaker 1: then moving to a new organization, a completely new organization
Speaker 1: in a lateral role, doing the same thing, and then
Speaker 1: you move again, well, to me, it's like, what is
Speaker 1: the story behind this? And it's likely that there is
Speaker 1: an alignment issue and potentially that is a issue if
Speaker 1: you're not staying in a role because you're moving to
Speaker 1: the next opportunity, So your role changes because you're staying
Speaker 1: within the same organization and it's a broader scope, you've
Speaker 1: got a bigger portfolio of clients, or maybe you've been
Speaker 1: promoted into a leadership position. I mean that tells a
Speaker 1: lovely story in terms of being jumpy on your CB.
Speaker 1: If I look at somebody's profile and I can see
Speaker 1: why they've made the move. I'm like, Okay, they were
Speaker 1: at this organization and they moved after seven months, fifteen months,
Speaker 1: sixteen months. They haven't stated this organization so very long,
Speaker 1: but it's clear to me, Okay, they've moved from this
Speaker 1: seat into a completely different seat in a different organization.
Speaker 1: Then you can see the flow through and it makes sense.
Speaker 1: But you have to be cognizant of that fact that
Speaker 1: your CV tells the story and you, once you get
Speaker 1: to interview, have the opportunity to provide supplementary information to
Speaker 1: that CV, but it's still the CV that will be
Speaker 1: screened on.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Such a good point.
Speaker 3: Okay, So we've been speaking a lot in this episode
Speaker 3: about revenge quitting, which is this new trend set to
Speaker 3: be twenty twenty five's biggest career trend.
Speaker 4: Have you seen this trend?
Speaker 1: I've seen the commentary around it. I think revenge quitting,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few elements to it, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: To be truly revenged quitting, your absence has to be
Speaker 1: mourned by the previous employer, So it needs to be
Speaker 1: handled with that level of finesse that I was speaking
Speaker 1: about earlier in terms of managing your exit process and
Speaker 1: going out and really being like using a notice period
Speaker 1: to be like, here's everything that I do for you.
Speaker 1: Here it is, I've wrapped everything up, I've played the game.
Speaker 1: I was an a grade employer, and now I'm going
Speaker 1: elsewhere because I haven't been appreciated for the contributions I
Speaker 1: was making here. I think for it to truly be revenge,
Speaker 1: you have to handle it in such a way that
Speaker 1: it's probably not known that that's actually what is happening.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that, and then on reflection they will
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, wow, we probably should have done more
Speaker 1: for this person.
Speaker 8: Oh that is totally it's nikola because there's been a
Speaker 8: lot of like pride coming through in some of the
Speaker 8: comments on TikTok, like these people feeling like they really
Speaker 8: drove the knife in and they're making it a lot
Speaker 8: about themselves.
Speaker 3: But it really needs to be yeah, the employer mourning
Speaker 3: your loss.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and if you show a level of immaturity during
Speaker 1: that period of time where they're going to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: she probably wasn't or he probably wasn't right for the organization. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we probably weeded out someone who wasn't a fit for
Speaker 1: our culture. Whereas if you do it, handle it with
Speaker 1: complete grace, then that is when it's true revenge because
Speaker 1: they look back and go, damn, wow.
Speaker 3: You've answered my last question, which was going to be
Speaker 3: can you revenge quit with grace? And you can, and
Speaker 3: I think you must for it to truly be revenge quitting.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, you would need to be super mindful about
Speaker 1: how you handled the entire process, and I touched earlier
Speaker 1: around how you handle your communication. Everything would need to
Speaker 1: be I don't want to use the word strategic, but
Speaker 1: in an element it would need to be. And if
Speaker 1: you're letting emotions come in outwardly throwing your toys out
Speaker 1: of the pram, the revenge isn't going to come off
Speaker 1: quite in the way you wanted it to.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I love this. This is so helpful. Thank
Speaker 3: you so much, Nikola the worries.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: That part hit home for me where it was For
Speaker 3: it to truly be revenge, the employer must mourn you,
Speaker 3: and if you are immature on the way out, that
Speaker 3: won't happen.
Speaker 7: That's it. It's like, the best revenge is you showing up,
Speaker 7: you know, a year later with this amazing role and
Speaker 7: you're just smashing it and had your employers like, oh god.
Speaker 7: Just a couple of other points that I thought were
Speaker 7: absolutely brilliant. I just loved hearing her perspective. Okay, the
Speaker 7: myth busting around, you know, do you have to have
Speaker 7: another job lined up before you quit. I've always thought
Speaker 7: that hiring managers might see it as a bad thing
Speaker 7: if someone's unemployed while they're going for a role. But
Speaker 7: it's actually the opposite, she's saying. You know, it's kind
Speaker 7: of enticing because you know this person can start straight away,
Speaker 7: which I think is cool. Also think that gaps on
Speaker 7: CBS in general are becoming more normalized, and I love
Speaker 7: seeing people actually take pride in putting like, you know,
Speaker 7: six months off, one year off gaps on CBS and
Speaker 7: talking about what they did in their life you know
Speaker 7: that wasn't working in that time.
Speaker 1: The other point that.
Speaker 7: I absolutely loved is really it's not so much about
Speaker 7: the quitting, it's to really think about your exit. And
Speaker 7: if you're in a truly toxic environment, you're not thinking
Speaker 7: about this like fully planned exit where you're going to
Speaker 7: be showing up at your best. It's like toxic environments
Speaker 7: are a different ballgame, and I do think they're very
Speaker 7: serious and there's a lot of PTSC and trauma that
Speaker 7: can come from that. So but in a normal work environment,
Speaker 7: I do think really, you know, responding thinking rationally and
Speaker 7: thinking about how you want to show up as you exit.
Speaker 7: Just her practical advice around you know, proper handover, don't
Speaker 7: badmouth a leaders is just yes, so good.
Speaker 3: Another myth she busted, which I loved, was around if
Speaker 3: you leave a role after seven months, but you've moved
Speaker 3: to a different company doing something completely different, that doesn't
Speaker 3: tell a bad story. Or if you've moved because you've
Speaker 3: taken on a role that is larger with more responsibility,
Speaker 3: that also paints an amazing story. So I think that's
Speaker 3: good for people to know as well, because I think
Speaker 3: sometimes they are sticking it out in potentially toxic work
Speaker 3: environments because they think twelve months might look bad or
Speaker 3: six months might look bad. But I think, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: about how you tell the story.
Speaker 7: Oh man, your career is way too important and your
Speaker 7: life is way too precious to be unhappy every day
Speaker 7: going to work. So yeah, definitely make the change if
Speaker 7: it has to happen.
Speaker 4: Okay, so've hit us with the action points.
Speaker 7: Okay, so number one, explore your options before you leave,
Speaker 7: talk to your manager. If your manager is the problem,
Speaker 7: then talk to a different leader. Realign the expectations for
Speaker 7: your role, talk about what's making you unhappy, and try
Speaker 7: to make some changes. Number two, design your exit. So
Speaker 7: think about the people that you want to get references
Speaker 7: from before you leave. Think about your handover, think about
Speaker 7: the people that you want to stay in touch with,
Speaker 7: and even book in coffee catch ups with them before
Speaker 7: you leave, so you can retain that relationship and that
Speaker 7: network that you've built and worked for. And then number three,
Speaker 7: make them more new. So think about how you are
Speaker 7: showing up in a way that when you leave, they're
Speaker 7: going to say, we cannot believe we've lost this person.
Speaker 7: Make them more new.
Speaker 2: That line about true revenge is when your employer mourns
Speaker 2: your loss hits so hard. It's so simple. Just be
Speaker 2: good at your job, and instead of revenge quitting, you
Speaker 2: can leave so gracefully that they realize exactly what they're losing.
Speaker 2: If you're sitting there thinking about quitting your job revenge
Speaker 2: style or otherwise, definitely check out our newsletter this week.
Speaker 2: We've got practical steps for exploring your options before you
Speaker 2: make any dramatic exit. And don't forget Our Biz Inbox
Speaker 2: episode drops this Thursday, where we answer all of your
Speaker 2: career dilemmas. So check our show notes to find exactly
Speaker 2: how to submit your work questions. See you next time.
Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on