1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

2
00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

3
00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,974
Speaker 1: is recorded on.

4
00:00:21,734 --> 00:00:21,934
Speaker 2: Hi.

5
00:00:22,094 --> 00:00:24,894
Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy and this is the Hot Pod summer

6
00:00:24,934 --> 00:00:28,294
Speaker 1: series of Mamma MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. When

7
00:00:28,334 --> 00:00:30,974
Speaker 1: you're dipping your toe into the dating pool, there are

8
00:00:31,014 --> 00:00:34,254
Speaker 1: many obstacles to overcome. Is that profile pick one from

9
00:00:34,334 --> 00:00:37,214
Speaker 1: now or twenty years ago? Are they actually a nice person?

10
00:00:37,534 --> 00:00:39,534
Speaker 1: Will they murder me if I meet them in person?

11
00:00:40,174 --> 00:00:42,334
Speaker 1: But one thing that many more Aussies are coming up

12
00:00:42,334 --> 00:00:45,054
Speaker 1: against in twenty twenty five is whether the person in

13
00:00:45,094 --> 00:00:47,974
Speaker 1: the peak even exists and how can we tell if

14
00:00:48,014 --> 00:00:52,014
Speaker 1: they can't fishing us? Today we meet Kylie, a romance

15
00:00:52,054 --> 00:00:55,014
Speaker 1: scam investigator who has skills from her time as a

16
00:00:55,054 --> 00:00:58,294
Speaker 1: New South Wales detective to tell if that man is

17
00:00:58,334 --> 00:01:12,694
Speaker 1: for real. The twenty twenty three Swipe Bright Modern Dating

18
00:01:12,694 --> 00:01:15,174
Speaker 1: report from Choosey found that the majority of Ozzies in

19
00:01:15,214 --> 00:01:19,054
Speaker 1: our meeting potential partners through dating apps or online dating services,

20
00:01:19,214 --> 00:01:23,174
Speaker 1: with sixty two percent of us finding love online. Unfortunately,

21
00:01:23,214 --> 00:01:27,014
Speaker 1: for those seeking companionship via these channels, scam Watch found

22
00:01:27,094 --> 00:01:29,654
Speaker 1: of the four hundred and eighty four reports they received

23
00:01:29,694 --> 00:01:33,454
Speaker 1: about romance baiting scams. In twenty twenty three, Australians lost

24
00:01:33,454 --> 00:01:38,654
Speaker 1: a collective forty million dollars. These cruel scammers will spend

25
00:01:38,734 --> 00:01:42,014
Speaker 1: weeks or months preying on the lonely, making their victim

26
00:01:42,014 --> 00:01:45,614
Speaker 1: feel seen and heard like they've formed a genuine connection,

27
00:01:45,814 --> 00:01:49,614
Speaker 1: before the conversation turns to start asking for money, for investments,

28
00:01:49,654 --> 00:01:53,254
Speaker 1: for help, or for support. Those who are the most

29
00:01:53,334 --> 00:01:56,454
Speaker 1: frequent target of a romance scammer are those over the

30
00:01:56,454 --> 00:01:59,174
Speaker 1: age of fifty, like Anne, who was caught out with

31
00:01:59,214 --> 00:02:02,374
Speaker 1: a story that so many romance scammers used to hook us.

32
00:02:02,294 --> 00:02:07,614
Speaker 3: In, that we're American. Their mother was Australian and their

33
00:02:07,734 --> 00:02:12,014
Speaker 3: father had passed away, and says that the conversation, which

34
00:02:12,094 --> 00:02:14,374
Speaker 3: she tried to keep on the app platform for as

35
00:02:14,414 --> 00:02:17,294
Speaker 3: long as possible before jumping into other forms of communication

36
00:02:17,454 --> 00:02:20,334
Speaker 3: like email a watsapp, was a constant.

37
00:02:19,814 --> 00:02:22,614
Speaker 1: Flow back and forth each and every day for six

38
00:02:22,654 --> 00:02:25,654
Speaker 1: months until she felt comfortable talking about money.

39
00:02:26,254 --> 00:02:29,494
Speaker 3: What I was looking at was more property type of areas,

40
00:02:29,534 --> 00:02:33,774
Speaker 3: but I was interested in the crypto side of things,

41
00:02:33,894 --> 00:02:36,494
Speaker 3: but I didn't have much knowledge on it, and they

42
00:02:36,774 --> 00:02:40,334
Speaker 3: seemed to have more knowledge than me on it, and

43
00:02:40,374 --> 00:02:44,254
Speaker 3: then it just built from there. It was just generalized,

44
00:02:44,534 --> 00:02:47,494
Speaker 3: like just normal everyday talk, as if you're talking to

45
00:02:47,534 --> 00:02:48,054
Speaker 3: a friend.

46
00:02:48,574 --> 00:02:52,174
Speaker 4: They make you feel as if they're there with you.

47
00:02:52,694 --> 00:02:55,294
Speaker 3: They just get you to the point where you believe

48
00:02:55,374 --> 00:02:58,374
Speaker 3: in what they're saying to you, everything from just the

49
00:02:58,454 --> 00:03:01,774
Speaker 3: daily chat to them sharing things with you.

50
00:03:03,094 --> 00:03:05,734
Speaker 1: She says that she was wary about talking about money

51
00:03:05,734 --> 00:03:08,894
Speaker 1: with her online love, but when she experienced a family tragedy,

52
00:03:09,134 --> 00:03:12,254
Speaker 1: the scout moved in and she lost tens of thousands

53
00:03:12,254 --> 00:03:13,174
Speaker 1: of dollars.

54
00:03:13,734 --> 00:03:17,854
Speaker 3: Towards the end of last year, my mother passed away,

55
00:03:18,134 --> 00:03:22,094
Speaker 3: so I was flying back and forth because I lived

56
00:03:22,134 --> 00:03:26,014
Speaker 3: in estate from them, to deal with her and also

57
00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:27,454
Speaker 3: family stuff and that.

58
00:03:27,934 --> 00:03:30,774
Speaker 4: So I was running on adrenaline because of that. But

59
00:03:30,814 --> 00:03:34,694
Speaker 4: then he started to pressure more about things.

60
00:03:35,014 --> 00:03:38,254
Speaker 3: I started to get red flags. I suppose looking back,

61
00:03:38,294 --> 00:03:40,894
Speaker 3: they were probably already there, but they were more prominent

62
00:03:41,014 --> 00:03:44,454
Speaker 3: around that time, and I started pushing back and asking

63
00:03:44,494 --> 00:03:48,494
Speaker 3: more questions, and it just kind of unraveled from there.

64
00:03:49,614 --> 00:03:52,294
Speaker 1: When Anne started to realize that things weren't quite right

65
00:03:52,334 --> 00:03:54,854
Speaker 1: with the man she thought she was dating online, an

66
00:03:54,974 --> 00:03:58,214
Speaker 1: ad conveniently popped up that made her finally reach out

67
00:03:58,214 --> 00:04:00,814
Speaker 1: for help, and they came back with the news she

68
00:04:01,134 --> 00:04:02,014
Speaker 1: didn't want to hear.

69
00:04:02,494 --> 00:04:05,894
Speaker 3: Provid investigator came up on the TV show that I

70
00:04:05,974 --> 00:04:10,414
Speaker 3: was watching and they were talking about this, and then

71
00:04:10,934 --> 00:04:15,574
Speaker 3: that obviously set on more read elumps and they was thinking, well, yeah, okay,

72
00:04:15,654 --> 00:04:16,334
Speaker 3: that happens.

73
00:04:17,014 --> 00:04:21,294
Speaker 5: So I actually reached out to them and they investigated

74
00:04:21,374 --> 00:04:24,854
Speaker 5: it and came back with what I'd already had the

75
00:04:24,894 --> 00:04:29,414
Speaker 5: red Flakes for anyway, and confirmed what I was hoping

76
00:04:29,574 --> 00:04:30,094
Speaker 5: they wouldn't.

77
00:04:30,254 --> 00:04:31,014
Speaker 4: But they did.

78
00:04:31,494 --> 00:04:33,814
Speaker 3: Speaking to them and I ask got some advice on

79
00:04:33,894 --> 00:04:35,134
Speaker 3: them on what I should do.

80
00:04:35,494 --> 00:04:37,974
Speaker 4: I went to the police.

81
00:04:38,174 --> 00:04:40,694
Speaker 1: After filing a police report and dealing with the fallout

82
00:04:40,734 --> 00:04:43,134
Speaker 1: of losing the money and losing the person she thought

83
00:04:43,214 --> 00:04:45,574
Speaker 1: she was in love with, and still had to deal

84
00:04:45,574 --> 00:04:47,574
Speaker 1: with the scammer trying to keep her on the hook.

85
00:04:48,054 --> 00:04:52,174
Speaker 3: I cut off email and phone communication with them, but

86
00:04:52,254 --> 00:04:55,894
Speaker 3: they just tried with other numbers. Took me several weeks

87
00:04:55,974 --> 00:04:59,014
Speaker 3: before they've stopped contacting me, and of course all the

88
00:04:59,094 --> 00:05:03,054
Speaker 3: emails and text messages that did come through, we're all

89
00:05:03,134 --> 00:05:06,254
Speaker 3: saying how could I throw it away? And we worked

90
00:05:06,254 --> 00:05:10,454
Speaker 3: so hard and all this, I just said every you've said.

91
00:05:10,254 --> 00:05:11,214
Speaker 4: To me, he is a liar.

92
00:05:11,294 --> 00:05:14,254
Speaker 3: I even asked you to meet him in person because

93
00:05:14,294 --> 00:05:15,974
Speaker 3: we still hadn't met in person.

94
00:05:18,334 --> 00:05:21,654
Speaker 1: And story has been replicated thousands and thousands of times

95
00:05:21,694 --> 00:05:24,294
Speaker 1: across the internet. But there are people who are trying

96
00:05:24,334 --> 00:05:27,534
Speaker 1: their best to catch these people out. Just recently, in

97
00:05:27,574 --> 00:05:30,334
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, ten men and five women who were all

98
00:05:30,414 --> 00:05:33,854
Speaker 1: family members, were busted at a mansion in Sha Tin,

99
00:05:34,014 --> 00:05:38,054
Speaker 1: where investigators confiscated luxury cars and hundreds of thousands of

100
00:05:38,054 --> 00:05:41,774
Speaker 1: dollars in cash. In the Philippines, hundreds of people were

101
00:05:41,814 --> 00:05:44,774
Speaker 1: rescued from a love scam operation that forced them to

102
00:05:44,854 --> 00:05:48,254
Speaker 1: pose as lovers online to extort money. They were masquerading

103
00:05:48,294 --> 00:05:51,094
Speaker 1: as an online gambling operation, but they were in fact

104
00:05:51,134 --> 00:05:54,534
Speaker 1: scamming lonely hearts, with the scammers also in trapping people

105
00:05:54,574 --> 00:05:58,014
Speaker 1: and forcing them into the criminal activity. They called these

106
00:05:58,054 --> 00:06:02,054
Speaker 1: love scams pig butchering operations, referring to the victims being

107
00:06:02,094 --> 00:06:04,854
Speaker 1: fattened up with the illusion of a romantic or intimate

108
00:06:04,894 --> 00:06:09,534
Speaker 1: relationship before taking their money or slaughtering them. In September,

109
00:06:09,734 --> 00:06:12,374
Speaker 1: three people based in Cans were charged with operating a

110
00:06:12,454 --> 00:06:16,014
Speaker 1: romance scam with two men in their seventies allegedly responding

111
00:06:16,054 --> 00:06:18,334
Speaker 1: to a personal ad for conversation with a widow in

112
00:06:18,334 --> 00:06:21,574
Speaker 1: her fifties. One of the men lost forty two thousand dollars,

113
00:06:21,854 --> 00:06:29,054
Speaker 1: the second three hundred and forty three thousand. Kylie Dennis

114
00:06:29,094 --> 00:06:32,054
Speaker 1: is the founder of two Face Investigations. She's a former

115
00:06:32,094 --> 00:06:35,214
Speaker 1: New South Wales detective who started her new business after

116
00:06:35,254 --> 00:06:37,654
Speaker 1: overhearing a friend say that their mum had found a

117
00:06:37,734 --> 00:06:40,414
Speaker 1: new man online. Kylie, can you tell us a story

118
00:06:40,414 --> 00:06:42,534
Speaker 1: about your friend's mum that got you started in romance

119
00:06:42,534 --> 00:06:44,254
Speaker 1: scam investigations in the first place.

120
00:06:44,894 --> 00:06:46,494
Speaker 4: So my girlfriend rang me.

121
00:06:46,574 --> 00:06:48,374
Speaker 2: So I've known the family for a long time, and

122
00:06:48,494 --> 00:06:50,934
Speaker 2: she said to me forwards, mum has a boyfriend.

123
00:06:50,934 --> 00:06:51,054
Speaker 4: Now.

124
00:06:51,134 --> 00:06:53,774
Speaker 2: Mum's seventy nine at that time and was living in

125
00:06:53,774 --> 00:06:57,014
Speaker 2: a retirement village and she'd been divorced for over around

126
00:06:57,134 --> 00:07:00,254
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five years, but it never indicated that she

127
00:07:00,374 --> 00:07:04,374
Speaker 2: was looking for anybody. So I gave Anna ring and

128
00:07:04,414 --> 00:07:07,174
Speaker 2: said to her, you know, I believe you've met somebody.

129
00:07:07,494 --> 00:07:08,134
Speaker 4: Yes, you know.

130
00:07:08,294 --> 00:07:11,294
Speaker 2: He is a businessman and from Sydney and he's currently

131
00:07:11,334 --> 00:07:15,214
Speaker 2: in Turkey doing a contract before he retires. I say, yeah, okay,

132
00:07:15,254 --> 00:07:17,534
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty reasonable. How long you've been talking to him?

133
00:07:17,534 --> 00:07:18,574
Speaker 2: And she said five months?

134
00:07:19,614 --> 00:07:22,494
Speaker 4: Have you met him? No, I have not, right, that

135
00:07:22,614 --> 00:07:23,574
Speaker 4: was a bit of a red flag.

136
00:07:23,614 --> 00:07:26,734
Speaker 2: So then she sent me some photos over and at

137
00:07:26,734 --> 00:07:29,774
Speaker 2: that time Anne had a few medical issues, so the

138
00:07:29,774 --> 00:07:32,334
Speaker 2: photos she sent to me certainly indicated it was a

139
00:07:32,334 --> 00:07:35,814
Speaker 2: man in his very early fifties, not the sixty nine

140
00:07:35,854 --> 00:07:36,774
Speaker 2: year old that she had.

141
00:07:36,654 --> 00:07:37,974
Speaker 4: Been told that he was.

142
00:07:38,494 --> 00:07:40,694
Speaker 2: So I did a bit of investigation, found out that

143
00:07:40,734 --> 00:07:45,494
Speaker 2: the photos actually belonged to a real estate agent in California,

144
00:07:45,574 --> 00:07:47,614
Speaker 2: and that real estate agent wasn't on a dating app,

145
00:07:47,654 --> 00:07:49,814
Speaker 2: he was married, and et cetera, et cetera, And the

146
00:07:49,854 --> 00:07:52,534
Speaker 2: scammer had then actually used the real.

147
00:07:52,454 --> 00:07:55,454
Speaker 4: Estate agent's daughter that owns the photos.

148
00:07:55,694 --> 00:07:58,374
Speaker 2: So the scammer had collected that photo and used that

149
00:07:58,534 --> 00:08:01,614
Speaker 2: in the story as well. So Anne believed that, you know,

150
00:08:01,774 --> 00:08:04,854
Speaker 2: she was talking to Donald, and Donald had a daughter

151
00:08:04,894 --> 00:08:08,534
Speaker 2: called Elizabeth who was twenty five in London. So that's

152
00:08:08,574 --> 00:08:09,534
Speaker 2: how that all started.

153
00:08:10,294 --> 00:08:13,894
Speaker 1: And did Anne reveal how Donald had reached out to her?

154
00:08:14,414 --> 00:08:16,694
Speaker 4: So she was on an over sixties dating app.

155
00:08:17,014 --> 00:08:19,854
Speaker 2: The story is they sort of do a quick smile,

156
00:08:20,254 --> 00:08:23,574
Speaker 2: she smiles back. They said, ay, oh, I love your photo.

157
00:08:24,014 --> 00:08:26,774
Speaker 2: You know, can we start talking? And she started talking

158
00:08:26,774 --> 00:08:29,774
Speaker 2: on the dating app, so that went from there to

159
00:08:31,014 --> 00:08:35,814
Speaker 2: Gmail and then onto WhatsApp. So they slowly did that progression,

160
00:08:36,054 --> 00:08:38,734
Speaker 2: which is what they all do, to get them from

161
00:08:38,974 --> 00:08:43,494
Speaker 2: that dating platform into an encrypted messaging service. So that's

162
00:08:43,534 --> 00:08:45,054
Speaker 2: what she said, and she said it did only take

163
00:08:45,094 --> 00:08:47,814
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks and she had no reason to

164
00:08:47,894 --> 00:08:52,134
Speaker 2: believe that there was anything bad happening within that discussion.

165
00:08:52,774 --> 00:08:56,054
Speaker 1: Is that the first red flag when people want to

166
00:08:56,134 --> 00:08:59,134
Speaker 1: take the conversation away from that dating app into something

167
00:08:59,174 --> 00:09:02,814
Speaker 1: that's encrypted or easier for them to manipulate.

168
00:09:03,174 --> 00:09:06,774
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a fine line between the first red flag

169
00:09:07,014 --> 00:09:10,454
Speaker 2: I'm now looking at where I'm talking to scammers is

170
00:09:10,494 --> 00:09:14,934
Speaker 2: that we are on the dating app. Then they take

171
00:09:15,414 --> 00:09:19,334
Speaker 2: me very quickly to the Gmail account and then to

172
00:09:19,574 --> 00:09:23,934
Speaker 2: what's that. But then also within that timeline, you're actually

173
00:09:24,014 --> 00:09:26,774
Speaker 2: asking to meet as well, and they are slowly giving

174
00:09:26,814 --> 00:09:29,454
Speaker 2: you a reason as to why they can't. I always

175
00:09:29,454 --> 00:09:32,494
Speaker 2: say the first red flag is you cannot meet them.

176
00:09:32,774 --> 00:09:36,214
Speaker 2: They will give you an excuse why you cannot meet them.

177
00:09:36,334 --> 00:09:38,894
Speaker 1: And that excuse then that Donald has given Ann in

178
00:09:38,934 --> 00:09:41,894
Speaker 1: this instance where he's working overseas currently but is about

179
00:09:41,934 --> 00:09:43,694
Speaker 1: to return home. Is that a common one?

180
00:09:44,054 --> 00:09:48,494
Speaker 2: Yes, So one of the excuses will be I'm currently

181
00:09:48,534 --> 00:09:51,414
Speaker 2: here in Sydney, for example, Oh, I have to quickly

182
00:09:51,454 --> 00:09:55,494
Speaker 2: go overseas for a business meeting or to finalize a

183
00:09:55,534 --> 00:09:58,454
Speaker 2: family matter. But the conversation will always start that they

184
00:09:58,534 --> 00:10:01,294
Speaker 2: are in the town that they're meant to be in, Sydney,

185
00:10:01,654 --> 00:10:04,374
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. But when you then try to

186
00:10:04,574 --> 00:10:09,414
Speaker 2: organize a meeting, unfortunately I have to rush off overseas.

187
00:10:10,294 --> 00:10:14,334
Speaker 1: What other parts of these scammers' stories are common? I

188
00:10:14,374 --> 00:10:18,734
Speaker 1: understand that discussing some big tragedy or something that makes

189
00:10:18,734 --> 00:10:21,294
Speaker 1: you emotionally attached to them is also part of that

190
00:10:21,454 --> 00:10:22,414
Speaker 1: red flag pattern.

191
00:10:22,814 --> 00:10:25,614
Speaker 4: Absolutely, certainly they will always.

192
00:10:26,174 --> 00:10:29,294
Speaker 2: In my experience now, in talking to the victims that

193
00:10:29,334 --> 00:10:32,014
Speaker 2: I'm talking to, every one of them has talked to

194
00:10:32,054 --> 00:10:35,094
Speaker 2: somebody their partner has tragically died as a result of

195
00:10:35,134 --> 00:10:38,974
Speaker 2: cancer or in a car accident, and it's a story

196
00:10:39,014 --> 00:10:42,774
Speaker 2: that will break their heart. Their children will be overseas,

197
00:10:42,814 --> 00:10:45,294
Speaker 2: maybe at boarding school, or the tragedy will happen that

198
00:10:45,374 --> 00:10:47,854
Speaker 2: the husband and the son died in a car accident,

199
00:10:47,934 --> 00:10:50,894
Speaker 2: the daughters, you know, at school somewhere else. Such a

200
00:10:50,894 --> 00:10:55,734
Speaker 2: distressing conversation because they then will have tapped into why

201
00:10:55,814 --> 00:10:58,094
Speaker 2: you're on the dating app. So you will have told

202
00:10:58,134 --> 00:11:00,414
Speaker 2: them I'm on the dating app my wife died a

203
00:11:00,454 --> 00:11:02,534
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, or my husband, you know, divorce

204
00:11:02,614 --> 00:11:06,294
Speaker 2: or whatever. Then they will then have this really tragic

205
00:11:06,494 --> 00:11:09,694
Speaker 2: story that will tap into your heart strings.

206
00:11:10,214 --> 00:11:14,054
Speaker 1: What other patterns can we look out for? In this instance,

207
00:11:14,134 --> 00:11:16,814
Speaker 1: they'll be overseas so can't meet up in person. They'll

208
00:11:16,814 --> 00:11:19,934
Speaker 1: want to take you off platform pretty quickly. What else

209
00:11:19,934 --> 00:11:22,014
Speaker 1: do we need to look out for In the language

210
00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:23,614
Speaker 1: that they're using to talk to us.

211
00:11:24,014 --> 00:11:27,174
Speaker 4: It's very I call it the love letter template. It's

212
00:11:27,374 --> 00:11:28,334
Speaker 4: very love bombing.

213
00:11:28,734 --> 00:11:30,934
Speaker 2: You will notice when they talk to you, they may

214
00:11:30,974 --> 00:11:33,654
Speaker 2: not refer to you as your name. They'll say good morning,

215
00:11:33,654 --> 00:11:36,454
Speaker 2: my darling, good morning, my sweetheart. And that is because

216
00:11:36,494 --> 00:11:38,094
Speaker 2: you're not talking to the same scamming. You may be

217
00:11:38,134 --> 00:11:40,814
Speaker 2: talking to a couple of them, So that's another indicator.

218
00:11:40,854 --> 00:11:43,094
Speaker 2: And the conversation is not something that you would normally

219
00:11:43,094 --> 00:11:45,494
Speaker 2: have face to face. They would tell you that there's

220
00:11:45,534 --> 00:11:49,734
Speaker 2: blossoms in their stomach, and they will say words and

221
00:11:49,934 --> 00:11:54,574
Speaker 2: statements that is not normal in normal language between you know,

222
00:11:54,894 --> 00:11:57,974
Speaker 2: two people going out and first meeting. So it's very

223
00:11:58,094 --> 00:12:02,974
Speaker 2: in depth, it's very sometimes very sexualized, but it's very

224
00:12:03,294 --> 00:12:06,054
Speaker 2: very very loving and the idea is to get an

225
00:12:06,094 --> 00:12:09,494
Speaker 2: emotional response from you because then you're starting to fall

226
00:12:09,574 --> 00:12:14,214
Speaker 2: all into this. Let's call it a spell that will orchestrate,

227
00:12:14,574 --> 00:12:17,974
Speaker 2: you know, and encourage you to follow the lines and

228
00:12:18,014 --> 00:12:19,934
Speaker 2: what they want you to do, and you can actually

229
00:12:19,974 --> 00:12:23,734
Speaker 2: see patterns. You will see that they will always end

230
00:12:23,814 --> 00:12:26,174
Speaker 2: with I wish you were here tonight, I wish that

231
00:12:26,214 --> 00:12:29,174
Speaker 2: I could lay beside you, I wish I'd met you yesterday,

232
00:12:29,254 --> 00:12:32,654
Speaker 2: or you know something where they're removing themselves from allegedly

233
00:12:32,694 --> 00:12:35,654
Speaker 2: their previous relationship and saying that you should have been

234
00:12:35,694 --> 00:12:38,254
Speaker 2: part of their relationship right from day one.

235
00:12:39,014 --> 00:12:42,574
Speaker 1: Well, that's the language patterns. What about the picture patterns.

236
00:12:42,654 --> 00:12:44,854
Speaker 1: What can we look out for in those profile picks

237
00:12:44,854 --> 00:12:47,054
Speaker 1: that nine times out of ten would have been stolen

238
00:12:47,054 --> 00:12:50,374
Speaker 1: from somebody else? How do we look at those with

239
00:12:50,934 --> 00:12:53,014
Speaker 1: an eye to protecting ourselves?

240
00:12:53,334 --> 00:12:56,534
Speaker 4: They're very much model like photos.

241
00:12:56,574 --> 00:13:02,694
Speaker 2: They look really well constructed photos someone who may be

242
00:13:03,054 --> 00:13:06,334
Speaker 2: a blogger or an influencer. So it's not just you know,

243
00:13:06,374 --> 00:13:08,534
Speaker 2: me going down the right, just taking a quick snapshot.

244
00:13:08,814 --> 00:13:11,334
Speaker 2: So it'll have a like a bit of a frame

245
00:13:11,374 --> 00:13:13,774
Speaker 2: attached to a little bit of a smokiness attached to it.

246
00:13:13,774 --> 00:13:16,494
Speaker 4: All they will all seem quite similar.

247
00:13:16,894 --> 00:13:19,974
Speaker 2: So there's a photos I'm currently doing now with They've

248
00:13:19,974 --> 00:13:23,334
Speaker 2: stolen these ladies photos and she's a blogger, and all

249
00:13:23,414 --> 00:13:27,494
Speaker 2: the photos are strategically placed so they look like they

250
00:13:27,494 --> 00:13:29,014
Speaker 2: should have come out of a magazine.

251
00:13:29,054 --> 00:13:30,574
Speaker 4: They just seem too perfect.

252
00:13:30,974 --> 00:13:33,374
Speaker 1: Is that going to get even more difficult now that

253
00:13:33,454 --> 00:13:36,934
Speaker 1: AI is generating such realistic pictures?

254
00:13:37,174 --> 00:13:42,174
Speaker 2: One the biggest concern I have now is moving away

255
00:13:42,254 --> 00:13:46,614
Speaker 2: from just focusing on the photos because of AI. And

256
00:13:46,654 --> 00:13:50,254
Speaker 2: that is a huge concern and huge concern for the

257
00:13:50,294 --> 00:13:54,214
Speaker 2: older demographic as well, because everybody that I've spoken to,

258
00:13:54,494 --> 00:13:58,534
Speaker 2: they're all dating in secret. They're telling nobody. So when

259
00:13:58,574 --> 00:14:02,054
Speaker 2: you then have AI attached to this as well, there

260
00:14:02,134 --> 00:14:04,574
Speaker 2: is a whole world of problems and issues. And I

261
00:14:04,614 --> 00:14:07,054
Speaker 2: think then we have to revert back to the beginning.

262
00:14:07,534 --> 00:14:10,734
Speaker 2: You went on a dating app to look for human connection,

263
00:14:11,334 --> 00:14:14,774
Speaker 2: you have not met anybody. We need to go back

264
00:14:14,774 --> 00:14:16,774
Speaker 2: to that square one that you know what we're looking

265
00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:20,174
Speaker 2: for in the beginning companionship, you know, with AI coming

266
00:14:20,214 --> 00:14:22,934
Speaker 2: in and you're sitting at home and just talking to

267
00:14:23,014 --> 00:14:24,854
Speaker 2: somebody online.

268
00:14:24,934 --> 00:14:27,174
Speaker 4: You're not getting what you originally wanted.

269
00:14:27,854 --> 00:14:31,494
Speaker 1: You deal with people who lose thousands, hundreds of thousands

270
00:14:31,534 --> 00:14:35,294
Speaker 1: of dollars to these scammers. Many of them do not

271
00:14:35,494 --> 00:14:38,334
Speaker 1: want to report it. Why is there such a shame

272
00:14:38,694 --> 00:14:40,854
Speaker 1: about being caught out by a romance scam?

273
00:14:41,614 --> 00:14:44,894
Speaker 2: I think it's the language that people around them say

274
00:14:44,974 --> 00:14:47,694
Speaker 2: to them. The victims that I have will say that

275
00:14:47,894 --> 00:14:51,294
Speaker 2: people are so judgmental towards me, They are so critical.

276
00:14:51,654 --> 00:14:55,254
Speaker 2: They use language like how stupid could you be?

277
00:14:55,574 --> 00:14:55,774
Speaker 4: You know?

278
00:14:55,814 --> 00:14:59,654
Speaker 2: So, why would I tell anybody if I know that

279
00:14:59,734 --> 00:15:03,174
Speaker 2: people are going to be cranky and they get they

280
00:15:03,174 --> 00:15:06,334
Speaker 2: get cranky at the victims instead of supporting them and saying,

281
00:15:07,014 --> 00:15:09,534
Speaker 2: you know, what can we do to help you? Because

282
00:15:09,614 --> 00:15:12,214
Speaker 2: there is now an emotional you know, and a mental

283
00:15:12,254 --> 00:15:13,334
Speaker 2: health site attached to this.

284
00:15:13,494 --> 00:15:16,974
Speaker 4: Now they've become so ashamed.

285
00:15:17,334 --> 00:15:20,974
Speaker 2: And we've got men and women who will say, I

286
00:15:21,014 --> 00:15:24,374
Speaker 2: am so intelligent, I'm a smart man.

287
00:15:24,974 --> 00:15:26,414
Speaker 4: I don't know what happened.

288
00:15:26,174 --> 00:15:28,454
Speaker 2: And then you know, within themselves they have this sense

289
00:15:28,494 --> 00:15:32,014
Speaker 2: of shame, and I say to them, you're a victim

290
00:15:32,014 --> 00:15:35,494
Speaker 2: of a crime. You went online to find someone to

291
00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:41,174
Speaker 2: fill your heart and in the end, the deceitful criminal

292
00:15:41,334 --> 00:15:44,854
Speaker 2: syndicates have destroyed you. You know that they may have

293
00:15:44,974 --> 00:15:49,694
Speaker 2: lost their husband to cancer and they've just decided to

294
00:15:50,254 --> 00:15:52,454
Speaker 2: get out there in the dating world, or even being

295
00:15:52,534 --> 00:15:55,014
Speaker 2: a victim of a domestic violence. And I've had a

296
00:15:55,054 --> 00:15:58,454
Speaker 2: lady who was twenty years so she's now a victim

297
00:15:58,494 --> 00:16:03,454
Speaker 2: of a romance scammer, heartbroken and they're devastated because they

298
00:16:03,534 --> 00:16:07,174
Speaker 2: thought they just may be able to find somebody to

299
00:16:07,254 --> 00:16:08,814
Speaker 2: go for a drive with or to go out for

300
00:16:08,814 --> 00:16:09,254
Speaker 2: dinner with.

301
00:16:09,694 --> 00:16:13,294
Speaker 1: So would your advice be for those who are experienced

302
00:16:13,294 --> 00:16:15,214
Speaker 1: the dating scam We've obviously run through all of the

303
00:16:15,254 --> 00:16:17,654
Speaker 1: things that they can look out for, but for really

304
00:16:17,694 --> 00:16:20,694
Speaker 1: the people around those people who may be experiencing it

305
00:16:20,774 --> 00:16:23,294
Speaker 1: is to just be a little kinder to people and

306
00:16:23,334 --> 00:16:25,174
Speaker 1: maybe help them through this a.

307
00:16:25,094 --> 00:16:28,214
Speaker 2: Little bit more empathy. Listen to them, allow them to

308
00:16:28,334 --> 00:16:32,174
Speaker 2: vent because they're being cruel to themselves. So allow them

309
00:16:32,214 --> 00:16:35,174
Speaker 2: to say I've done the wrong thing. Don't lay judgment

310
00:16:35,214 --> 00:16:38,814
Speaker 2: on them. You don't dismiss how they're feeling. You know,

311
00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:42,014
Speaker 2: it is going to be a process, Like any sad

312
00:16:42,094 --> 00:16:45,294
Speaker 2: event that's happened in someone's life. It is a process

313
00:16:45,294 --> 00:16:48,334
Speaker 2: for them to move forward, and they will move forward.

314
00:16:48,534 --> 00:16:51,014
Speaker 2: But also, you know, let them know, you know there

315
00:16:51,054 --> 00:16:52,974
Speaker 2: are people out there that will sit down and talk

316
00:16:53,014 --> 00:16:55,734
Speaker 2: to them, you know, maybe go and see accounts, to

317
00:16:55,774 --> 00:16:59,814
Speaker 2: go and see your GP. Stop the judgment, because anybody

318
00:16:59,814 --> 00:17:03,694
Speaker 2: can be a victim of a scam, anybody. Romance has

319
00:17:04,174 --> 00:17:07,494
Speaker 2: a deeper element to this because it's now your heart

320
00:17:07,574 --> 00:17:09,934
Speaker 2: is shattered in a million pieces.

321
00:17:13,854 --> 00:17:16,414
Speaker 1: If you're having a conversation with someone online and this

322
00:17:16,454 --> 00:17:19,734
Speaker 1: episode is exposed and red flags for you, please reach

323
00:17:19,774 --> 00:17:22,214
Speaker 1: out to the people around you for support and speak

324
00:17:22,254 --> 00:17:25,934
Speaker 1: to police if money is involved. There's nothing shameful about

325
00:17:25,934 --> 00:17:28,654
Speaker 1: being caught out by a scammer. They're getting better and

326
00:17:28,694 --> 00:17:31,094
Speaker 1: better at fooling us each and every day, and with

327
00:17:31,254 --> 00:17:34,934
Speaker 1: AI now able to simulate voices and manipulate video, it

328
00:17:34,974 --> 00:17:37,934
Speaker 1: will be even harder to spot the fakes from the reality.

329
00:17:38,614 --> 00:17:41,854
Speaker 1: And says she's learned a very hard lesson and that

330
00:17:42,094 --> 00:17:44,854
Speaker 1: it's hurt her heart more than she can ever really explain.

331
00:17:45,174 --> 00:17:47,694
Speaker 1: That the money is secondary to the emotional trauma of

332
00:17:47,734 --> 00:17:50,934
Speaker 1: it all, but despite everything she's been through, she's still

333
00:17:50,934 --> 00:17:52,214
Speaker 1: not ready to give up on love.

334
00:17:52,854 --> 00:17:56,294
Speaker 3: I am looking, but I'm very tentative about it and

335
00:17:56,454 --> 00:18:00,054
Speaker 3: very skeptical about it. But I'm a romantic at heart

336
00:18:00,094 --> 00:18:02,894
Speaker 3: and i haven't given up on it. But if you

337
00:18:02,934 --> 00:18:05,774
Speaker 3: don't meet me within a certain timeframe and I'm a

338
00:18:05,894 --> 00:18:07,534
Speaker 3: meet in person, see you later.

339
00:18:09,014 --> 00:18:10,934
Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

340
00:18:11,014 --> 00:18:13,454
Speaker 1: us today, and remember across this summer period, if there's

341
00:18:13,454 --> 00:18:15,494
Speaker 1: a story you want us to check out for you,

342
00:18:15,574 --> 00:18:17,694
Speaker 1: please reach out. You can send us an email the

343
00:18:17,774 --> 00:18:20,374
Speaker 1: Quickie at mamamea dot com dot au, or you can

344
00:18:20,374 --> 00:18:22,734
Speaker 1: always hit us up on the socials. The Quikie is

345
00:18:22,774 --> 00:18:25,814
Speaker 1: produced by me Claire Murphy our senior producer Taylor Strano,

346
00:18:26,094 --> 00:18:27,934
Speaker 1: with audio production by Tom Lyn