WEBVTT - Bek Condello Was Born Into A Cult. Escaping Was The Easy Part

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<v Speaker 1>I just kept on hoping that there were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there was far better things out there than because I

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<v Speaker 1>was just so miserable. I was like, it can't be

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<v Speaker 1>worse than this, And so I wrote my parents a letter,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, the only way they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>actually let me go is if I say that I've

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<v Speaker 1>slept with this guy Matt, and I hadn't, but I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm going to get kicked out of the

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<v Speaker 1>cult for two years for sleeping with someone outside of

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<v Speaker 1>the cult.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, I'm Kate Lanebrook, and my guest on No Filter

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<v Speaker 2>today is Beck Condello. How much of who you are

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<v Speaker 2>was chosen by you? And how much was chosen for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Beck was born into the Geelong Revival Center, a Pentecostal

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<v Speaker 2>church she now describes as a cult. From the outside,

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<v Speaker 2>it looked like an ordinary religious community. Inside, it shaped

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<v Speaker 2>every aspect of her life, what she believed, who she trusted,

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<v Speaker 2>who she could love, and what might happen if she

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<v Speaker 2>ever left. For years, Beck accepted that world as normal

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<v Speaker 2>because it was all she'd ever known. But eventually the

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<v Speaker 2>questions began to surface, and those questions would lead her

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<v Speaker 2>to leave not only the church she was raised in,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the marriage and identity that had been built

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<v Speaker 2>within it. Today we talk about fear and freedom, belonging

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<v Speaker 2>and loss, and what it takes to build a life

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<v Speaker 2>of your own after spending years living somebody else's version

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<v Speaker 2>of it. This is Bet Condelo. Bet Condello, welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>No Filter.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited, Well, I'm quite excited to speak to

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<v Speaker 2>you because your story is a really wide ranging, fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>tale of really, I guess, escape and redemption and finding yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>It should be. I mean, did you think about calling

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<v Speaker 2>it eat prey love. It's a millennial, modern day it is,

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<v Speaker 2>especially the praying part. Now, can you tell me and

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<v Speaker 2>the listeners why that is you spent so much time

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<v Speaker 2>on your knees praying? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, so I was born into a Pentecostal Christian

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<v Speaker 1>doomsday cult in Australia. My parents joined a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years before I was born, and so I was told

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<v Speaker 1>from a really young age that God was returning to

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<v Speaker 1>the earth any day now, and if I hadn't prayed

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<v Speaker 1>properly that morning, or the day before or that night,

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to burn in hell. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>grew up with the mortal fear of God and going

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<v Speaker 1>to hell and my parents disowning me if I ever sinned.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And when you said pentecostal, what does that mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that the people that speak in tongues.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, speaking tongues, you know, follow the King James version

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bible Jesus Diversians.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Very I think for most intents and purposes, like that

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<v Speaker 1>very basic idea of Christianity with the added layer of

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<v Speaker 1>every other Christian is wrong, except if you go to our.

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<v Speaker 2>Church, okay, and there's always like the fear of hell fire,

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<v Speaker 2>eternal damnation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and everything was if you weren't you know, if

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<v Speaker 1>you were sick, if you couldn't make it to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a church meeting, if you know, you were struggling with

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<v Speaker 1>anything that was a lack in your faith. And so

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<v Speaker 1>while you had a lack in your faith, your soul

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<v Speaker 1>was at risk. And I think that was their biggest

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<v Speaker 1>way of like keeping us and controlling us, because when

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<v Speaker 1>I tell everyone about it, they're just like, but why

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<v Speaker 1>were people staying?

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, well, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>But also I think there was that layer of fear

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<v Speaker 1>and just enough to keep people hooked, you know, because

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<v Speaker 1>there was a sense of community, but also there was

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<v Speaker 1>the isolation that came with it. You know, if you

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<v Speaker 1>your family, if they didn't joined, you had to disown them,

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<v Speaker 1>and you couldn't hang out with people outside of it,

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<v Speaker 1>so you were really isolated.

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<v Speaker 2>I was raised to Jehovah's Witness, and I can say

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<v Speaker 2>in your book, can you handle a girl like me?

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<v Speaker 2>No cult ever describes themselves as a cult. Yeah, which

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<v Speaker 2>is so interesting. It's true. It's like when you have

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<v Speaker 2>bought into the beliefs, to you, they seem so right,

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<v Speaker 2>and inarguable the cult sounds like an insult.

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<v Speaker 1>It actually took me a really long time after leaving,

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<v Speaker 1>and even now sometimes I still just call it a

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<v Speaker 1>church because it's not that I don't necessarily think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a cult. Cult just felt very dramatic, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>sort of something you watch a documentary about on Netflix,

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess because we didn't live on some remote

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<v Speaker 1>property wearing gowns, and you know, you watch Handmaid's Tale

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<v Speaker 1>and anyone could look at it and just think we

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<v Speaker 1>were maybe exclusive Brethren or Jehovah's Witness, or we just

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<v Speaker 1>looked like we were a bunch of Christians like you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't look no one would have known.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you were modesty dressing. Yeah, very trad values

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<v Speaker 2>in your upbringing. Your father was the head of the

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<v Speaker 2>household exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and women, for the most part, really didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a voice. And I think now my friends are wondering

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<v Speaker 1>why I'm always yapping about feminism, and I'm just because

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have a voice for most of my life,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had to fight really hard. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>only went to school for six years. I couldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>had a career. It was really my goal in life

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<v Speaker 1>to be a wife and mother, And not that there's

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<v Speaker 1>anything wrong with either of those two things, but that

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<v Speaker 1>is all I got told I could be as a woman.

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<v Speaker 2>So you only went to school for six years because

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<v Speaker 2>you were home schooled.

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<v Speaker 1>I was homeschooled, which didn't actually have anything to do

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<v Speaker 1>with the cult. That was my parents had an additional

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<v Speaker 1>layer of being very like controlling, and my mom especially

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<v Speaker 1>and that was her idea a homeschoolers. And so it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't until I was ten that I begged my parents

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<v Speaker 1>to let me go to school because I just wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to have friends and I just wanted to be normal,

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<v Speaker 1>and even within the cult, community. My brother and I

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<v Speaker 1>were a weird kid.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah. And within your family, it was interesting because

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<v Speaker 2>we were talking about that traditional your father being the

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<v Speaker 2>head of the house, but it was very much It

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<v Speaker 2>seems that your mother called the shots emotionally, yes, and

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<v Speaker 2>seemed to be a very complex, unhappy woman. How did

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<v Speaker 2>that manifest for you day to day as a as

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<v Speaker 2>a child, as her daughter?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I think I just spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of my childhood really just trying to please my mum

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<v Speaker 1>and make her happy and make her love me. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think i'll ever really understand why she was

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<v Speaker 1>the way she was. I think she had a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of maybe frustrations with the way her life had been.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that my dad was the first boyfriend she

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<v Speaker 1>ever had, and you know, sort of just married him

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<v Speaker 1>and it was like, well, you guys can't be together

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<v Speaker 1>unless you know, you can't be in the cult and

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<v Speaker 1>be together unless you get married. So I think they

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<v Speaker 1>got married quite quickly. And again I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>she was quite young, so I think that pressure within

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<v Speaker 1>the cult to have children, and it was a different

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<v Speaker 1>time then too, it was the early eighties. I think that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, so she finished her university degree early and

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<v Speaker 1>she starts, it's actually really funny and I can't remember,

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<v Speaker 1>but I know it had something to do with literature.

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<v Speaker 1>I think she wanted to be a writer, which for

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<v Speaker 1>me feels like this very bizarre, full circle moment where

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<v Speaker 1>in a different world she would have been really proud

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<v Speaker 1>at me. So it's very weird, especially because I spent

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<v Speaker 1>so much of my childhood just trying to keep her happy.

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<v Speaker 1>And she really was the you know, everything started and

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<v Speaker 1>ended with her in our house, and like she said,

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<v Speaker 1>like for all intensive purposes. My dad was the head

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<v Speaker 1>of the house, and I guess if he had stood

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<v Speaker 1>up to her or whatever, she would have respected him.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think it was easier for him to just

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<v Speaker 1>placate her and to keep her happy at the detriment

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<v Speaker 1>of my brother and I, And I think I absolved

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<v Speaker 1>him of a lot of blame for a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, like, my mom was never the one

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<v Speaker 1>that hit me growing up. She would tell my dad

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<v Speaker 1>to hit me, and she would say that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I had done something whatever wrong. She would you know,

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<v Speaker 1>get in one of her moods, and it was very arbitrary,

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<v Speaker 1>and she would tell my dad to hit me. And

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<v Speaker 1>she he just did whatever she told him to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think it just became easier for him. That

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<v Speaker 1>was his survival, I guess, in the house. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I absolved him of a lot of blame for a

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<v Speaker 1>really long time because I felt bad for him, Like

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<v Speaker 1>no child should ever feel bad for their parents when

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<v Speaker 1>it's the parent that's hitting them. And I think it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't until I was writing my book that I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>my god, like, actually, my dad should have protected me,

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<v Speaker 1>Like he had a responsibility as my parent to keep

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<v Speaker 1>me safe and he didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>You tell a story in the book about your dad

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<v Speaker 2>carving like lovingly and carefully carving a spoon and painting

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<v Speaker 2>it bright yellow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And when I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was reading it, I should have known better. I was like, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>he was crafty. I know, he had made a wooden

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<v Speaker 2>spoon with which to hit you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And he was actually a very creative and crafty person.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of weird that this was also then

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<v Speaker 1>something he created. And I remember it almost being like

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<v Speaker 1>this little joke, you know. And they really justified hitting

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<v Speaker 1>children in the cult because there was a scripture that

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<v Speaker 1>basically said train up a child in the way he

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<v Speaker 1>should go when he's old, he'll not depart from it, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And so that was their justification. And I think, in

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<v Speaker 1>a weird way, my parents genuinely thought that they were

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<v Speaker 1>doing the right thing for my eternal salvation by hitting me,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like the more you hit your child, the

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<v Speaker 1>more guaranteed their place in heaven was because that's what

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<v Speaker 1>God wanted. And so I think in their weird way,

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<v Speaker 1>they thought they were doing the right thing, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was their way of loving me. And yeah, he's hand

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<v Speaker 1>made this wooden paddle that I used to have to

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<v Speaker 1>go fetch from the they stored at the piano store.

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<v Speaker 1>And then as I got bigger, he made a bigger

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<v Speaker 1>one because obviously my little body got bigger. That didn't

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't big enough to hit me. And he used

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<v Speaker 1>to go around and shut all the windows in the

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<v Speaker 1>house so the neighbors wouldn't hear me screaming.

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<v Speaker 2>But within the church or the cult, it wasn't unusual

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<v Speaker 2>for children to be disciplined like that. There wasn't Occasionally

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<v Speaker 2>he got stuck into you in public and you said,

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<v Speaker 2>no one even turned their head to look what had

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<v Speaker 2>you done as a little girl? That incurred that physical wrath.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, When I greeted the pastor, I didn't use his name,

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<v Speaker 1>so I just said hello, and he was really angry

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<v Speaker 1>that I hadn't to him. He saw it as a

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<v Speaker 1>sign of disrespect. And I would have been maybe gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe seven, six or seven.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I was young, and you were scared of the pastor.

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<v Speaker 1>I was scared like they had ultimate authority, they were unquestionable,

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<v Speaker 1>and he just genuinely was not a warm person. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was a really timid child, Like I remember, I

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<v Speaker 1>used to cry sometimes if a stranger talked to me

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<v Speaker 1>because I was just so shy. And so I said hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and he got angry because I didn't say his full name.

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<v Speaker 1>And then it just became this thing that went on

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<v Speaker 1>for months, and I think it was just my anxiety.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I would just you know, my dad would make

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<v Speaker 1>me go up and say, you know, hello and use

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<v Speaker 1>his full name. I would just freeze and like the

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<v Speaker 1>words just could not come out of my mouth. And

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<v Speaker 1>I knew what was coming if I didn't do it,

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<v Speaker 1>but they just saw it as a sign of rebellion

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<v Speaker 1>that had to be beaten out of me, essentially.

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<v Speaker 2>And there was an occasion where the pasta this is

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<v Speaker 2>such a strange story. Can you tell me when the

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<v Speaker 2>pasta So you were away at a camp? Was it all?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? So? No, so we went we had like a

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 1>church barbecue on oh okay, yeah, if anyone knows camb Or.

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>It was a tidpinvilla nature reserve and so we were

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.720
<v Speaker 1>all having our little barbecue. Got there. Same thing happened.

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Every time I saw the pastor. It was like, you

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.800
<v Speaker 1>need to go up and say hello to him. Same

0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.320
<v Speaker 1>thing happened. I froze, couldn't say it, and then without warning,

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.440
<v Speaker 1>he just grabbed my hand and just like took me

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>off into the pine forest, and no one stopped him.

0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:52.960
<v Speaker 1>So I feel like there must have been some kind

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 1>of conversation that I was just not aware of that

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 1>they were he was going to do this, and I

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 1>was terrified, Like I was not sobbing, you know, I

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 1>just remember I just couldn't catch your breath. And he

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 1>basically said to me he wouldn't return me to my

0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 1>parents until I said hello properly.

0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 2>And as a little kid that of a forest with

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 2>this giant.

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Man so far away from my parents, he's walking me

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 1>deeper into the forest and he's like, you are not

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.360
<v Speaker 1>going back to your parents until you say hello to

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.040
<v Speaker 1>me properly. And as a little kid, that's a very

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 1>real threat. Like I mean, now, as an adult you're like, well,

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:28.840
<v Speaker 1>of course he would have returned to me at some point,

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 1>But as a kid, you're like, oh my god, I'm

0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 1>never going to go back to my parents, Like this

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>is going to be it. And I'm with this man

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>that I'm terrified of in this forest. So eventually I

0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 1>sort of sputted out the words out of pure fear.

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.560
<v Speaker 2>He was just heello pasta and his last name, right.

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's all he needed. And he was so smug,

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and it was almost just like that moment. And I

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 1>had many moments like this as a kid where it's

0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.319
<v Speaker 1>almost like when they broke me, then they were just

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 1>sort of like content, you know, like that was like,

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 1>yes see, I knew you were just being you know whatever,

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 1>naughty or lazy or whatever. And he returned me to

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.400
<v Speaker 1>my parents. Back at the barbecue, no one said a

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.760
<v Speaker 1>single thing to me, and I was broken, like I

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 1>had been sobbing, and no one even offered me a

0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 1>hug or a tissue or any consolation. My parents were happy,

0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 1>because then he was happy and that's all that mattered.

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>So in that circumstance were normally a child would turn

0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>to one of their parents, Yeah, who could you turn to?

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:31.640
<v Speaker 2>No one?

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.760
<v Speaker 1>And that was most of my childhood, if not all

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 1>of my childhood. I never could turn to anyone for

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 1>any kind of consolation or any reassurance or Yeah. I

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 1>went through most of my childhood on my own.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 2>And because children are curious. Yeah, that's one of the

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>jobs of children is to be curious. You learned really

0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 2>early that that was not the case for you.

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I guess you know, curiosity generally in the

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 1>cult was seen as questioning the pastors or God or

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, questions were not welcome because anything you needed

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 1>to know was in the Bible. So if you had

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 1>a question, you just prayed about it, and if you

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 1>couldn't figure it out, that was on you, Like that

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 1>was your lack of faith. So you just had to

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>keep on praying and hope that you'd figure it out

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 1>or you just forgot about it. And I'm still a

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 1>very curious person. Like if I had to think of

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 1>like a theme word for my life, it's curiosity. Like

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about people in life and the world. And

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 1>I've always been curious, but that was just seen as naughty.

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.760
<v Speaker 1>And you know, even if I got into trouble for

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 1>something I could never, no one ever would explain to

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>me why I was in trouble. Like I'd be like, well,

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 1>I want to know so I don't do it again,

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 1>or I can learn from this, or and that would

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>either be met with being hit again or being told

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.280
<v Speaker 1>off or ignored or whatever.

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>So all the answers are in the Bible. But the

0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Bible doesn't talk about sanitary napkins. You asked. You made

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>the mistake of asking about a sanitary napkin. Hmmm, tell

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 2>me about that.

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So Again'm not sure how old I was, but like, yeah,

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe it was kind of around the same time, and

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 1>i'd gone to use we used to have our church

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 1>meetings outside of it, like in a community hall, And

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:26.920
<v Speaker 1>so I went to the toilet one day on a

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Sunday and someone had stuck up on paper on the wall.

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess, you know, whoever ran the community hall don't

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 1>flush sanitary napkins, and I think tampons or something down

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:38.560
<v Speaker 1>the toilet.

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I had no idea.

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 1>What that was, but I'm like, I don't know what

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 1>it is so like if I don't know, and maybe

0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll do it, and I don't know what it is.

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 1>And I mean, I was so young it didn't apply

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 1>to me. But I didn't know. And so I remember

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.680
<v Speaker 1>I came out of the toilet store and there was

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.160
<v Speaker 1>a girl who was five years older than me, and

0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 1>I asked her, like super innocently, I was like, Hey,

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 1>what's the sanitary napkins? She got so embarrassed, which I

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 1>feel like most girls would have gotten embarrassed, but I

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 1>realized she was also afraid. I think she was scared

0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>of telling me something that she wasn't supposed to tell

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.120
<v Speaker 1>me and then she might get into trouble, and so

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>she got really awkward and nervous and she was like, oh,

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:18.639
<v Speaker 1>you need to ask your mom. And I remember just

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.680
<v Speaker 1>being mortified, being like, oh my god, I've got asking

0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.440
<v Speaker 1>my mom. There's no way I'm asking it. Like now,

0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I need to be scared of this.

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.400
<v Speaker 1>And so I just never knew, and no one ever

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>told me, and like, that's such an innocent, silly question

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>that I feel like most kids at some point asked

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.680
<v Speaker 1>their parents weird questions, you know. And I just remember

0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>being terrified that someone was going to tell my mom

0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that I'd asked this question and I was going to

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>get into trouble, and so I just stopped asking questions

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:42.879
<v Speaker 1>at some point.

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 2>So what would happen? Then beck with like when you

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.760
<v Speaker 2>got your period? How was that handled?

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>So I actually got my period quite young. I was

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.119
<v Speaker 1>like eleven, and even I think, I feel like it

0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't long before I got my period, maybe six months.

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>My mom had given me a very basic, you know,

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>birds and the Bees talk, and there was a book

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 1>which I don't know if you've heard of it, but

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 1>it's called Where did I Come From Andy's seventies?

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, with drawings. Yes, I had drawings.

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 1>And the funny thing about the drawings is that I

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 1>think it had been handed around by many mothers in

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.199
<v Speaker 1>the in the cold, and there must have been a

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 1>boy version of the book and a girl version of

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the book, because in the girl version of the book,

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.400
<v Speaker 1>all the boys' penises had been blacked out with a sharpie.

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, so it was.

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>These very very basic like sex conversation, very awkward. My

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 1>mom was just like, if you got any questions, and

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 1>it's like you only know what you know, right, so

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:45.879
<v Speaker 1>of course I didn't have any questions because I was

0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 1>just like, Okay, this seems terrifying, and I you.

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Know, it's always terrifying to have that took. It's always

0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 2>it's a horrible particularly you know, blacked out penis pictures, and.

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 1>I I just never, even like years later, when I

0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.720
<v Speaker 1>had the proper sex talk, it wasn't like it was so.

0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 2>That week rush that was with my mom.

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.800
<v Speaker 1>That was with my mom, but had like some more details,

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, the when included in the period talk.

0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Because your mother, who'd come from an Italian background also

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I imagine quite conservative and religious background, but probably Catholic. I imagine, Yes, yep,

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 2>she'd had quite a sheltered upbringing as well.

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Look, I think she had, but she hadn't you know,

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.960
<v Speaker 1>like she had everything she needed. Her parents would take

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>her on holidays, her parents bought her first car for her,

0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, like she had a good education. She had

0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 1>quite a big, extended Italian family. I don't know how

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 1>sheltered it was. I don't think she was out partying

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 1>every weekend. But I mean I think even the fact

0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that they let her move to Canberra when she was

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 1>eighteen nineteen to go to university, right, Yes, you know, like,

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't think she was that sheltered.

0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 2>But what drew her? Like people always do crazy things

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.879
<v Speaker 2>for love. We know that that is so extreme, like

0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.199
<v Speaker 2>for you to talk about the family, her family that

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 2>you later made contact with, this giant, warm tumble of

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.399
<v Speaker 2>a family with cousins and aunties and uncles and whatever,

0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.840
<v Speaker 2>for her to turn her back on them and to

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:36.119
<v Speaker 2>step into this really emotionally barren life. Yeah, what do

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.239
<v Speaker 2>you think? I mean? I know that you don't know

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 2>because she wasn't forthcoming. Yeah, but your understanding of it

0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.440
<v Speaker 2>through a lot of the work that you've done. How

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 2>do you make sense of it?

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 1>Knowing obviously, Yeah, I can't speak to who she was

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 1>or why she made the decisions that she did, But

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>knowing who I grew up with, she very often saw

0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 1>her is the victim in situations. And I think if

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I can speak more broadly about why I think people

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 1>join cults anyway, is I think people really do crave

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.360
<v Speaker 1>a sense of belonging. And I look at my mom,

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.480
<v Speaker 1>and you know, she was eighteen nineteen she met my dad,

0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.080
<v Speaker 1>and he was like in his later twenties, so there

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.720
<v Speaker 1>was a bit of an age gap, and you know,

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.199
<v Speaker 1>this was her first time living away from home. I

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 1>think he was her first proper boyfriend and being older

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.439
<v Speaker 1>than her, and then he joins this cult and then

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>brings her along, and I just feel like, you know,

0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I remember when I left my ex partner and I

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>went to Morocco for the first time by myself. I

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.840
<v Speaker 1>was there for three weeks, and then next minute I

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.240
<v Speaker 1>wanted to move there, and it's like, in no world

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>should I could I have moved to Morocco. But it's like,

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I think, suddenly, when you have access to this world,

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>in this life that you've never had, suddenly everything just

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 1>feels possible. And you know, I feel like everything was

0:21:55.680 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 1>just happening at this super fast speed and the world

0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.439
<v Speaker 1>had just opened up to her. And I think, you know,

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.480
<v Speaker 1>if I can give her any grace, she was only

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.880
<v Speaker 1>eighteen or nineteen, you know, like, and she's making these huge,

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>big life decisions. And I think she had to convince

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.480
<v Speaker 1>herself that she had come from a bad family or

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.840
<v Speaker 1>that she'd had a bad experience, you know, like, because

0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.040
<v Speaker 1>how else do you justify it. And maybe she had

0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 1>kind of always felt like the odd one out in

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>her family. Maybe she had never really felt like she

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>fitted in. Did that mean that they deserved to be

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 1>cut off from her? Absolutely not. And I think with

0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>age and time she would have maybe been able to

0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 1>come back round to them as a woman. But yeah,

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately she never saw them ever again.

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Nor did she come back round to you.

0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 1>No. And I feel like when you you know the

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:51.960
<v Speaker 1>fact that she cut her parents off at such a

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 1>young age to join the cold and then kind of

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>just out, you know, all she had was my dad

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>and then obviously the small cult community, and then growing

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:04.880
<v Speaker 1>up my family was like super small. It was literally

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.199
<v Speaker 1>my dad and my brother and my mom and I

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't even know I had this whole family out there. Yeah,

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It makes me sad because, like we

0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.639
<v Speaker 1>was saying before, like I think that she was studying

0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 1>literature at university, Like, man, she'd be so proud of me.

0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Now like it's just so sad, like she's missing out

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>of my life.

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:30.200
<v Speaker 2>And to reconcile who she was with who she became.

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Yes, and that was something I think. Writing my

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 1>book was so cathartic for so many reasons, but I

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>think it really helped me give language with my adult

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 1>brain to a lot of things that I'd experienced as

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>a child and really see my parents as adults and

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 1>as you know, I when I did eventually meet my grandparents,

0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.360
<v Speaker 1>my grandma showed me a photo of my mom when

0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:57.359
<v Speaker 1>before she'd moved away to UNI, so she would have

0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>been maybe like seventeen, and she's in their backyard. She's

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.679
<v Speaker 1>wearing this like very plunging, like one piece, you know,

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 1>swim suit, and she's under the sprinkler and she's like laughing,

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:11.679
<v Speaker 1>like head thrown back, like laughing. And it was the

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 1>most I actually kept the photo because it was the

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 1>most human version of my mum I think I'd ever seen,

0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.440
<v Speaker 1>and there was this never made woman, never met her,

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh my gosh, my mom was

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 1>a whole person that I just never knew. And it

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.879
<v Speaker 1>was really sad because I was always grieving the mom

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 1>that I could have had, and I've also a grieved

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:35.919
<v Speaker 1>the dad I could have had, you know, Like I

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.160
<v Speaker 1>talked in my book about how my dad was an

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 1>artist and he painted these like very like surreal, kind

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:47.359
<v Speaker 1>of weird paintings, but incredibly talented. He used to read

0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.400
<v Speaker 1>to my brother and I and do all the voices,

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 1>and I remember at some point before my teens, he

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:55.120
<v Speaker 1>just kind of stopped doing all.

0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Of that, and the paintings disappeared from.

0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 1>The war, paintings disappeared because the cold pressure. No, I

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:05.679
<v Speaker 1>think just people lost their souls. I think, you know,

0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:09.120
<v Speaker 1>I wonder who my parents would have been had they

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:10.920
<v Speaker 1>not ever married each other, had they not ever joined

0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 1>the cult. I think they would have been such incredible

0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.399
<v Speaker 1>humans with so much to offer the world. And I

0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 1>just feel like over time that was just eroded away

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 1>from them more.

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:27.639
<v Speaker 2>With beck Condello coming up, there was a concerted effort

0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 2>on behalf of your parents, believing they were doing the

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.080
<v Speaker 2>right thing, and from the congregation of the cult as

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:40.640
<v Speaker 2>a whole, to beat out of you your curiosity and

0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:45.679
<v Speaker 2>to make you fit, to make you conform. Yeah, but

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>that never happened.

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.760
<v Speaker 1>I think sometimes it was like, you know, two steps

0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 1>forward and five steps back, and you know, sometimes I

0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.359
<v Speaker 1>felt like I'd make some progress, and then I think ultimately,

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think for so long before I eventually left,

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I was so scared that like, but what if I'm wrong?

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Like what if I leave? And then I'm just tormented

0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 1>for the rest of my life thinking but what if

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:11.280
<v Speaker 1>God does return? What if I did mess up? You know,

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.920
<v Speaker 1>like when you've been told it's like you've been told

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 1>from like a baby that the sky is blue and

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 1>then someone's like, no, no, it's purple, you know. And

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 1>that's been the biggest thing I think is as actually

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 1>doubting myself and questioning my own reality. I think that's

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.399
<v Speaker 1>been such a hard lesson for me to like learn

0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.600
<v Speaker 1>and to have that trust in myself, because yeah, I

0:26:29.680 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 1>just had so much. I was so afraid that if

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 1>I left, I would find out that I was wrong.

0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:38.280
<v Speaker 2>And also thrust into the arms of worldly people who

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:44.200
<v Speaker 2>you had been taught were all bad, all evil. And

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 2>so then when you met the man who would become

0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:51.160
<v Speaker 2>your husband, who was a part of the cult steven.

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Before that you were on the casp, you'd written a

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 2>letter to your parents saying that you wanted to leave. Yeah,

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 2>but you hadn't given it to them.

0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:04.639
<v Speaker 1>No, I was about twenty, and you know, I remember

0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 1>when I was in Sunday school growing up, there were

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:10.600
<v Speaker 1>so many kids that we had like three Sunday school classes,

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, junior, like there was a junior, senior, and

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:15.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the middle one was gone, but

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, there was so many of us, like there

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 1>were just so many families. I really do believe that

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:25.840
<v Speaker 1>in those very early days, very early days, it was

0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:29.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe a controlling but relatively healthy church. And then I

0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>think over the years, I think the pastors realized how

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:34.960
<v Speaker 1>much control and sway they could have, and I feel

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 1>like it just got progressively more and more controlling and

0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:43.439
<v Speaker 1>emotionally abusive. And so a lot of the kids that

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I'd gone to Sunday School with either ran away when

0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:49.959
<v Speaker 1>they were teens and they left themselves, or their parents

0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.679
<v Speaker 1>left and they left with their parents, or the girls

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.879
<v Speaker 1>would marry someone in another city in the cult and

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 1>move away. And so I remember, by the time I

0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 1>was twenty, I had no friends. I wasn't allowed to

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>be friends with anyone outside the cult, and I was

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.119
<v Speaker 1>just so desperately.

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Lonely and sad.

0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:09.959
<v Speaker 1>And I remember I was working as a receptionist at

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>the time, I had an office job, and we'd gone

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:17.640
<v Speaker 1>away for a couple of nights to Orange, I think,

0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 1>and we're in this country town and we'd all gone

0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:24.520
<v Speaker 1>out for a work dinner to the local pub. I'd

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 1>never even been to a pub before, and the bartender

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 1>was this super cute guy named Matt, and somehow we

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 1>ended up back in his apartment. He lived upstairs above

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 1>the pub, and him and I kissed and it was

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.720
<v Speaker 1>just like so exhilarating, and I weirdly didn't feel guilty,

0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.120
<v Speaker 1>and I had thought that I would feel so guilty

0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:45.800
<v Speaker 1>and I didn't, and we ended up just like making

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:48.200
<v Speaker 1>out the entire night. We didn't sleep together, and I

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:50.720
<v Speaker 1>remember I came home and it was almost like I'd

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:54.040
<v Speaker 1>had this little glimmer of like life on the outside

0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:57.520
<v Speaker 1>world and it wasn't so bad, and so I was like, Okay,

0:28:57.600 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I think I want to leave, like I think it'll

0:28:59.920 --> 0:29:02.520
<v Speaker 1>be okay. I had no plan. I had no I

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 1>didn't know where I was going to stay. I had

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>no real friends, except you know, there.

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Was a girl.

0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>I just I just kept on hoping that there were,

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:13.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, there was far better things out there than

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>because I was just so miserable. I was like, it

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 1>can't be worse than this, and so I wrote my

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 1>parents a letter and I was like, the only way

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 1>they're going to actually let me go is if I

0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:25.240
<v Speaker 1>say that I've slept with this guy Matt, and I hadn't,

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 1>but I was like, I'm going to get kicked out

0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 1>of the cult for two years for sleeping with someone

0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:31.760
<v Speaker 1>outside of the cult. So I knew that they couldn't

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.000
<v Speaker 1>argue with that. They'd be mad and angry and disappointed,

0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:35.360
<v Speaker 1>but they would kick me out of the house, and

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.480
<v Speaker 1>I'd be like, well, you know, they kicked me out,

0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:39.880
<v Speaker 1>what can I do? And so I wrote them his

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 1>letter confessing to sleeping with him, and unfortunately i'd already

0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:46.960
<v Speaker 1>so we would have like church camps at Christmas time,

0:29:47.040 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 1>like scattered around the country, and my parents had gone

0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>away to Fiji for the church end of your camp,

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:57.040
<v Speaker 1>and I was meant to go somewhere else. And it

0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 1>was kind of at that time when you book flights

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.160
<v Speaker 1>and it was like there was no other you know,

0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:04.000
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't just easily transfer your flights or you know,

0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:06.600
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like it is now. And so I was like, well,

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I've already booked my flights. I'm just gonna have to

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 1>keep it. I'll go away. And I was going to

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 1>be back home before my parents got back from Fiji.

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 1>So I was like, I'll go away for the two weeks,

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 1>I'll come back, pack up all my stuff, leave the

0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:19.920
<v Speaker 1>letter out for them, and I'll have left by the

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 1>time they get back. Went away to the church camp

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>and that's where I met Steven and got home ripped

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the letter up. I really felt like he was very

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.200
<v Speaker 1>confident and self assured, and so I think I had

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.840
<v Speaker 1>this moment where I was like, Oh, maybe maybe I

0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 1>can stay and this guy will be like my ticket

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 1>to freedom, you know, like he seems a little different

0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:45.120
<v Speaker 1>to the other guys. He seems a little more I

0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I don't know what I thought he was.

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I just a lot of the.

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 1>He just seemed like a freethinker, and I guess because

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I was a free thinker, and I was like, yeah,

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:58.520
<v Speaker 1>there's this guy that's kind of like me, you know,

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:00.840
<v Speaker 1>like maybe actually I could stay and I wouldn't have

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:02.280
<v Speaker 1>to lose my family, I wouldn't have to lose my

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 1>whole community, and maybe I could stay and be happy.

0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Right However, because the rules about dating were so restrictive,

0:31:12.240 --> 0:31:16.200
<v Speaker 2>you didn't really get a chance to know him, did you.

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.280
<v Speaker 2>What were the rules not about spending time together?

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:24.040
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, so before he could even ask me out

0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 1>or we could even have like a conversation, Like I

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 1>saw him and I thought he was cute and that

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>was about it, you know, and he had to talk

0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.240
<v Speaker 1>to his pastor and his dad, and then my dad

0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and then my past don't know and talked to me,

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and then finally I was the last person that got

0:31:38.480 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 1>spoken to. And by that point I had already dated

0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.120
<v Speaker 1>two other guys in the cult, and that was super

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:49.040
<v Speaker 1>frowned upon because most people like married the first person

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:51.760
<v Speaker 1>they dated. So the fact that I'd already gone through

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:54.040
<v Speaker 1>like two relationships so just just so funny now when

0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 1>you think about dating now. But and I remember my

0:31:57.080 --> 0:31:59.560
<v Speaker 1>pastor pulled me aside and he was basically like this

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 1>to work, like, you have to marry this guy, basically, right,

0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 1>And you know, it's not that I didn't want to.

0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:08.280
<v Speaker 1>I just didn't know him, you know. Like we I

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:10.720
<v Speaker 1>worked out that we hung out for like seven weekends

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 1>before we got married, and he lived in another city,

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 1>so you know, like he could only come up every

0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 1>six weeks to see me. We couldn't sleep together. We

0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:22.280
<v Speaker 1>really had Friday night and Saturday during the day, and

0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 1>then Saturday night would be at youth, like the youth

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:26.719
<v Speaker 1>meeting all day. Sunday would be at church, and then

0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 1>he'd head home Sunday afternoon and so we were just strangers,

0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and I didn't think that, you know, Like I'm young,

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 1>and I thought I was in love, and so I

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:36.880
<v Speaker 1>thought I knew him. I didn't know. I didn't even

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 1>know myself. And so we got married and I moved

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>down to where he was, and we just never should

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:45.479
<v Speaker 1>have gotten married, Like we didn't know a single thing

0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>about each other. We were so misaligned.

0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>And also he had sort of mislead you about the

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>life that you were going to be leading together, So

0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:56.480
<v Speaker 2>you thought that there would be a lovely house that

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:59.320
<v Speaker 2>he'd been working on for the pair of you, and

0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:01.160
<v Speaker 2>instead where did you end up?

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:04.040
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if he intentionally misled me. I

0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:07.440
<v Speaker 1>feel like he I do think he had good intentions.

0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I'm justified this, but I feel

0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 1>like he did have good right, you know, like I

0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 1>do think within his own I do think he thought

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.120
<v Speaker 1>he was doing the right thing. I just don't think

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.240
<v Speaker 1>he communicated to me clearly. So, like while I was

0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:23.680
<v Speaker 1>planning the wedding, he was working and renovating our house

0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 1>that he'd bought. And so I packed up all my

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff in Canberra and loaded it up in his car

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and thought that I was moving into our house and

0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:35.160
<v Speaker 1>we got there, there was no toilet, there was no ceiling,

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 1>like you know, it was not even close to being finished.

0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:41.080
<v Speaker 1>And without any kind of conversation or consultation with me,

0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:42.440
<v Speaker 1>it was like, well, we're just going to go stay

0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 1>at my parents' house. And his parents had a large house,

0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 1>but no newlyweds when you've never slept together, want to

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:53.520
<v Speaker 1>be sleeping in the room opposite the in laws. And

0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>his mum was also not a particularly kind person. She

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 1>made me feel very judged, and she had lots of

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 1>opinions on lots of things, and you know, think of

0:34:04.360 --> 0:34:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the stereotypical mother in law, and I.

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Was just that she was cult.

0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I could never have

0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:13.400
<v Speaker 1>married anyone. And his parents he had not been born

0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:16.320
<v Speaker 1>into it, but his parents had joined when he was

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:18.600
<v Speaker 1>about seven, and he was the youngest of I think

0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:23.879
<v Speaker 1>five kids, so yeah, for as most of his life

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:27.279
<v Speaker 1>he'd been he'd grown up in it. So yeah, she

0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:29.080
<v Speaker 1>was definitely in the cult. So I was his dad,

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:35.360
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, it just wasn't conducive to like having intimacy

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 1>for the first time, and I already felt super nervous

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 1>about sex and all of that because the blacked out

0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 1>penises in the book, and you know, like I really

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:47.839
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what to expect, and it was just it

0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:51.480
<v Speaker 1>was a disaster. And you know, ultimately, later on, years later,

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>I found out that I had vaginismus, which made it

0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 1>physically impossible until I had physical therapy to have.

0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:06.400
<v Speaker 2>S Is that psychological a psychological condition with a physical manifestation.

0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's probably the best explanation I've heard of.

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.160
<v Speaker 2>A girlfriend of mine had it, actually, and I remember

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:16.640
<v Speaker 2>her saying to me once there was nothing wrong with me.

0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.359
<v Speaker 2>I just didn't want to have sex with the guy

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:22.120
<v Speaker 2>that she had been with in her relationship.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:25.360
<v Speaker 1>And I think like a lot of women, well a

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:27.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of women get it after childbirth or after a

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:30.239
<v Speaker 1>sexual assault, or you know, in my case, it was

0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 1>because I grew up in this super conservative Christian environment

0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:40.399
<v Speaker 1>where sex was bad and dirty. And it's amazing you

0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:42.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't have the connection with Steven.

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I didn't to it helped you to open like a flower,

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:47.920
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:53.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I think that's it true, because like

0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, everything had been so repressed, like we'd had

0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:00.960
<v Speaker 1>no real like intimate moments to get and then suddenly

0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 1>We're on our wedding night. And I don't know about

0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 1>most people, but I feel like, even if I got

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:08.759
<v Speaker 1>married again today, I don't think i'd feel like having

0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:11.400
<v Speaker 1>sex after a long day of like weddings, and you know,

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:12.880
<v Speaker 1>I'd be like, I actually just.

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Want to go to bed.

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:17.239
<v Speaker 1>But he felt like it, Yeah, I mean obviously. I

0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>mean I kind of don't blame him. He's twenty two

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:21.319
<v Speaker 1>and he never had sex. So he's like, yes, this

0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:25.440
<v Speaker 1>is finally my moment, and my body was just like

0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:26.279
<v Speaker 1>absolutely not.

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:30.359
<v Speaker 2>And then so how did you on the you know,

0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:38.359
<v Speaker 2>as as newlyweds, very hard to sort stuff out with

0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:41.280
<v Speaker 2>your in laws, you know, four feet across the hallway

0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:46.120
<v Speaker 2>from you. There was this always this underlying tension that

0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:50.760
<v Speaker 2>the pair of you couldn't really resolve about the sexual nature.

0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Was it also outside the bedroom? Absolutely?

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure.

0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I wonder like, would things have been different had

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:01.640
<v Speaker 1>we had I had like a better start. I don't

0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 1>think so. I think we were just two incredibly different

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 1>human beings. Like if I tell anyone anything now about

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 1>that relationship, they're just like, I just everything I know

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:11.920
<v Speaker 1>about you, I just can't imagine that you're with a

0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 1>guy like that, and I'm like, I know, and I

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:16.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, I just think we never should have been together.

0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:17.440
<v Speaker 1>We were so different.

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:21.719
<v Speaker 2>And I think, ultimately, I think he just.

0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Thought that I was being difficult or that like I

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 1>was being weird about sex, you know. I think he thought,

0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:31.759
<v Speaker 1>in his very A type brain that I could just

0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 1>fix it. And so every argument started to then just

0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 1>be around sex and money and just you know, you

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 1>need to fix yourself, you need to like and it

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of continued that cycle that I'd had from a kid,

0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:43.680
<v Speaker 1>where it was just like I felt like I had

0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:45.400
<v Speaker 1>to earn love. I had to it was something I

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:47.920
<v Speaker 1>could fix. I had to like the words I was

0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:48.560
<v Speaker 1>a problem.

0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Was it that you weren't submitting? I don't know that I.

0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:52.759
<v Speaker 1>Wasn't I wasn't submitting.

0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:59.279
<v Speaker 1>I genuinely just think that he thought that I just

0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.520
<v Speaker 1>needed to fix my and I'm like, I don't know

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:03.640
<v Speaker 1>how to fix myself. I literally thought I was the

0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 1>only person in the world that had this broken vagina,

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Like that's in my brain what I thought. I was like,

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:11.759
<v Speaker 1>there's something wrong with my body, Like I'm broken. How

0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 1>do I fix it? I don't know how to fix it?

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:16.319
<v Speaker 1>It was kind of like pre like where everything's on

0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Google kind of days, So I didn't I really didn't know,

0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:22.760
<v Speaker 1>but I just knew that I was the problem.

0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:27.560
<v Speaker 2>And was there pressure from the family then for you

0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:31.600
<v Speaker 2>to get pregnant? How aware were they of what was

0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:32.640
<v Speaker 2>going on with you?

0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:37.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't think anyone knew, and I am kind of

0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 1>surprised we didn't have more pressure to have kids, Like

0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:43.279
<v Speaker 1>I am really surprised that. I think people maybe just

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:46.440
<v Speaker 1>thought that we couldn't have kids because it was very unusual,

0:38:46.480 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 1>like people would get married and two years later they'd

0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:50.720
<v Speaker 1>be having or a year later they'd be having babies,

0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>So that is something. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know.

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:56.120
<v Speaker 1>If there were conversations that went on that I wasn't

0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 1>aware of, I wouldn't be surprised. But I feel like

0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.320
<v Speaker 1>people maybe just assumed that we couldn't have kids, which

0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 1>technically I guess we couldn't, but that ultimately, even though

0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>it was like super traumatic and I ended up resenting

0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 1>my body for a really long time, actually ended up

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 1>being the thing that saved me and helped me being

0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:17.759
<v Speaker 1>able to get away and start the life that I

0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:21.560
<v Speaker 1>have now. Well, because I just think that if I'd

0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 1>had kids, I think it would have just been so

0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:27.399
<v Speaker 1>much harder, you know. I guess ultimately, when I ended

0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:31.920
<v Speaker 1>up leaving Stephen, it was after ten years, after ten

0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 1>years of marriage, I really just wanted to go travel

0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 1>and live my life. And just you know, we'd left

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 1>the cult a few years earlier, and so I was like,

0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:47.719
<v Speaker 1>I just want to go live. I want to go

0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 1>get a chattoo, I want to go do some drugs.

0:39:50.040 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I want to go. You know, I just wanted to live.

0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do all these rites of passage, things

0:39:53.440 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 1>that I'd never had the chance to do, and he

0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:57.520
<v Speaker 1>just was not interested in doing any of those things.

0:39:57.560 --> 0:39:59.840
<v Speaker 1>And just as time went on and on, I was

0:39:59.880 --> 0:40:02.120
<v Speaker 1>just like I you know, I remember just before I

0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.880
<v Speaker 1>turned thirty, I was having these like anxiety attacks in

0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:07.880
<v Speaker 1>my sleep because I was waking up like not breathing.

0:40:08.600 --> 0:40:12.440
<v Speaker 1>And I think ultimately I realized that I had already

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:15.879
<v Speaker 1>lost like thirty years of my life to keep other

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 1>people happy. And I was like, I cannot turn forty.

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 1>And I actually just turned forty last year. I was like,

0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I can't turn forty and still be stuck, like I

0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 1>have something has to give, and it took me two

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 1>more years after that before I finally left him.

0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Right when you left the cult, Like that was interesting

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:38.080
<v Speaker 2>that you kind of did it in tandem. He in

0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:49.600
<v Speaker 2>fact started questioning things overtly before you did. Or Yeah,

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:50.120
<v Speaker 2>so he.

0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:54.839
<v Speaker 1>Had done some work. He was a trade and he'd

0:40:54.840 --> 0:41:02.040
<v Speaker 1>done some work for a pastor of life, like another church,

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:05.359
<v Speaker 1>like not connected to the COLT, and so I think

0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:09.319
<v Speaker 1>he'd sort of started to have conversations with him, and

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:11.799
<v Speaker 1>that was very frowned upon, like that was like super

0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 1>dangerous territory, you know, and so you never exposed to

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:18.319
<v Speaker 1>other people's beliefs. And I remember he came home and

0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:20.880
<v Speaker 1>he told me about it. And even though I questioned

0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.319
<v Speaker 1>the cult, even though I wasn't happy all of that,

0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.759
<v Speaker 1>I was still scared. And so he came home and

0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>he was like, oh, I was talking to this guy

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:30.480
<v Speaker 1>that I'm working with and he's saying all these things,

0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.239
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, oh my God, like don't go there,

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 1>like I don't question it, like this's whatever. And he

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:37.439
<v Speaker 1>just kept on because he kept on working with this guy,

0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:39.520
<v Speaker 1>and he kept on just having more and more questions

0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:41.160
<v Speaker 1>and he'd come home and then eventually I was like,

0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:43.480
<v Speaker 1>you know what, like, I think he's onto something. And

0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 1>so then for about a year, him and I were

0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 1>just like it was probably the only thing we really

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 1>deeply bonded over in our whole entire marriage that we

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:54.560
<v Speaker 1>were having these really deep conversations where we were really

0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.400
<v Speaker 1>questioning our faith, the cults, you know, like our belief system.

0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:03.359
<v Speaker 1>He was having more like, I guess, analytical questions about

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:06.360
<v Speaker 1>the Bible and the teachings, and I was more just questioning, like,

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:09.640
<v Speaker 1>I just don't think that like this is I didn't

0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:11.160
<v Speaker 1>feel like, you know, I remember when I was like

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.080
<v Speaker 1>a teenager and I wanted to do the forty Hour

0:42:13.160 --> 0:42:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Famine and I was told I couldn't because the kids

0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:17.080
<v Speaker 1>in Africa.

0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Needed the Bible, not our money.

0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And I remember just being like, and this doesn't feel

0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:24.440
<v Speaker 1>like what I imagine Christians to be like.

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.120
<v Speaker 2>There was just always something that just didn't feel right

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 2>for me.

0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.319
<v Speaker 1>And so that I was more just like looking at

0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 1>it from that perspective, and he was questioning the belief system,

0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:35.880
<v Speaker 1>and so he was going back and forward, and he

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:37.799
<v Speaker 1>was like talking to his parents and talking to the

0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:41.080
<v Speaker 1>pastes and questioning things, and their answer was just you

0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:43.919
<v Speaker 1>need to pray about it pray harder, like pray, pray, pray,

0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.840
<v Speaker 1>And because I couldn't give him the answers to his

0:42:46.960 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>questions because then that would mean that maybe he was

0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:50.840
<v Speaker 1>onto something.

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 2>So ultimately they had to make curiosity no curiosity, so

0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:56.840
<v Speaker 2>he had to be at fault.

0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:00.279
<v Speaker 1>So they had to make him at faults, and they

0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:03.600
<v Speaker 1>just couldn't come around, and he was getting so frustrated.

0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:07.640
<v Speaker 1>And I remember one day he came home and with

0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:10.600
<v Speaker 1>all the issues we'd had with like intimacy, one day

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:12.799
<v Speaker 1>we'd been talking and he was like, what this has

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:15.160
<v Speaker 1>to come from? Something like why can't you have sex?

0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Like's what's the issue? And I remember saying, you know,

0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:20.879
<v Speaker 1>like I feel like, you know, some things happened when

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I was a child, and I don't really have the

0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:24.840
<v Speaker 1>full details on it, but I feel like I was

0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:28.359
<v Speaker 1>assaulted and blah blah. But because I had never had

0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a clear picture in my head, like, it would get

0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:32.400
<v Speaker 1>to a point. And then I think because I was

0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:36.720
<v Speaker 1>so naive and like I just didn't have the language

0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:39.759
<v Speaker 1>for it as a kid, that I think that also

0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>helped me maybe not process what was happening in my

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.399
<v Speaker 1>brain because I didn't understand it. So the memories were

0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:47.799
<v Speaker 1>like super fuzzy, but like as an adult, yes, and

0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:49.840
<v Speaker 1>as an adult I can be like, oh no, something

0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:53.600
<v Speaker 1>definitely happened, But as a kid, I didn't. I couldn't

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:57.440
<v Speaker 1>articulate what was happening. And so I had said to him,

0:43:57.440 --> 0:43:59.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like, well, maybe this is why we can't

0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:01.200
<v Speaker 1>have sex. Maybe it's becuse these things happened, you know.

0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:04.400
<v Speaker 1>And so then for him that that was his He

0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:06.840
<v Speaker 1>almost hyper fixated on that. He was like, oh, yep, absolutely,

0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:08.640
<v Speaker 1>that's why we can't have sex. And so I think

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:10.479
<v Speaker 1>in some way it kind of absolved him of any

0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for us not being able to have sex or

0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.440
<v Speaker 1>any intimacy or you know, right, and so that kind

0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.799
<v Speaker 1>of became his thing. And anyway, so when he's going

0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.680
<v Speaker 1>talking to the pastors and his parents and blah blah blah,

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:24.719
<v Speaker 1>one day he said to me it was like, I

0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:26.400
<v Speaker 1>feel like if I could tell them what happened to

0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:31.279
<v Speaker 1>you as a child, that will make them question the cult,

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:33.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, like maybe that maybe they'll start to be like, oh,

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.160
<v Speaker 1>maybe it isn't so perfect, or maybe things can happen

0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:37.840
<v Speaker 1>that we don't know about, or you know, I'm not

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:38.920
<v Speaker 1>quite sure what he's.

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Thinking, you know, but he and I to them he

0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.319
<v Speaker 2>did so I was absolutely like, absolutely not. I wanted

0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:45.680
<v Speaker 2>to do this.

0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 1>And then one day he went behind my back and

0:44:48.560 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 1>he told them and he used it as leverage, I guess,

0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:52.399
<v Speaker 1>to make a point whatever he was trying to make.

0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:55.959
<v Speaker 1>And they did their little investigation and they were like.

0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh the was he he was a teenager?

0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Uh So there were multiple instances with different people. Unfortunately

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 1>only one of them was left in the cult at

0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.080
<v Speaker 1>that time, like the others had left and he was

0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:17.040
<v Speaker 1>now in a position of authority within the car. Yeah,

0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:21.759
<v Speaker 1>And so they did their little investigation and they came

0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:25.120
<v Speaker 1>back and they're like, oh, so Beck's lying. And I

0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:28.160
<v Speaker 1>was like, wait a sec Like these guys have said

0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 1>that they hear directly from God and God knows everything,

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:35.839
<v Speaker 1>and I know I'm telling the truth, and they said

0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:39.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm lie, Like something's broken here. And for me, in

0:45:39.920 --> 0:45:42.960
<v Speaker 1>that one moment, I was like, oh, okay, now I

0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 1>just call bs on this whole organization. Like it was

0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:50.239
<v Speaker 1>so traumatic it having come out against my will and

0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:52.040
<v Speaker 1>not in a way that I wanted it to ever

0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 1>come out, but simultaneously was like the best thing that could.

0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Have happened because because you know, they sound.

0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Well.

0:46:01.880 --> 0:46:04.280
<v Speaker 2>It says in the Bible the truth will set you free,

0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.560
<v Speaker 2>and even though this was a truth that it hadn't

0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:11.080
<v Speaker 2>been your idea to share or to follow up, it

0:46:11.160 --> 0:46:14.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of did end up setting you free totally.

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.600
<v Speaker 1>Because then I had no doubt in my mind. I

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.279
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, I just don't believe anything anymore that

0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:25.480
<v Speaker 1>you guys have said. And I expected Stephen to be like, okay, cool,

0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:29.240
<v Speaker 1>like let's get the hell out, and he was like, actually,

0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:31.040
<v Speaker 1>you know what, I think maybe you're lying to and

0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:34.839
<v Speaker 1>I might stay. And so I was like, well, I'm

0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:38.360
<v Speaker 1>never setting foot back in there again, because to me,

0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:42.640
<v Speaker 1>it's unquestionable now that actually everything is wrong. And he stayed.

0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 1>He stayed for another six months, and actively made that

0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:50.360
<v Speaker 1>six months, that first six months of me being outside

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the cult and not having a single person in the

0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.520
<v Speaker 1>world and kind of really being ejected into the outside

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:58.480
<v Speaker 1>world against my will. He made that nobody ten times,

0:46:58.520 --> 0:46:59.640
<v Speaker 1>nobody not as ault.

0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:03.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll be back with beat Condelo after this short break.

0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:10.720
<v Speaker 2>This is so so really profound actually that you say

0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:14.399
<v Speaker 2>in your book for anyone who's been through this sort

0:47:14.440 --> 0:47:17.759
<v Speaker 2>of experience, and I guess it doesn't even really have

0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:23.560
<v Speaker 2>to be religious. But for anyone who's been ostracized or

0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:27.320
<v Speaker 2>who feels like they're alone, you say, for most people,

0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:30.960
<v Speaker 2>even in their losses, there was still some foundation, a parent,

0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.640
<v Speaker 2>a hometown, a belief system to fall back on, some

0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:38.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of tether that reminded them they weren't alone. But

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:43.080
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't just lost one person. I had lost hundreds,

0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:47.719
<v Speaker 2>my family, my home, my faith, my community, my identity.

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I was no longer a daughter, a sister, or a wife.

0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't belong anywhere or to anyone.

0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:58.200
<v Speaker 1>That makes me really emotional. I know I wrote it,

0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:01.040
<v Speaker 1>but like, yeah, that's really how I felt, like I

0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:05.719
<v Speaker 1>can't and I hope that no one ever really has

0:48:05.760 --> 0:48:11.239
<v Speaker 1>to experience that, because it's a very bizarre feeling, just

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:14.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of like feeling like you're just floating. And it

0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:18.720
<v Speaker 1>actually took me years after that to actually feel tethered

0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:20.240
<v Speaker 1>in the world. And I would say that I've only

0:48:20.320 --> 0:48:23.239
<v Speaker 1>really felt some strong anchors in the world in the

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:26.400
<v Speaker 1>last maybe two to three years, and that's taken like

0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.759
<v Speaker 1>a lot of work to get that. Well.

0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:34.640
<v Speaker 2>You also, it was like when the Rubber band was released,

0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:40.160
<v Speaker 2>you shot out into the world. So you went to Bali,

0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:45.160
<v Speaker 2>you went to Morocco. When you talk about the first guy,

0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:52.160
<v Speaker 2>was it Josh that you met in Bali and you

0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:55.040
<v Speaker 2>had a date with him, and then you were like,

0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:56.479
<v Speaker 2>this is it? This is the guy.

0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, this is it.

0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:00.960
<v Speaker 2>I found my other half and he.

0:49:01.120 --> 0:49:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Was like he was just an an f boy, And

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:07.160
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that at the time. I just like,

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:09.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, So this was five years after I'd left

0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the Cold and then eventually left Stephen, and so I

0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:15.719
<v Speaker 1>took off traveling within a month of leaving Stephen, and yeah,

0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:18.920
<v Speaker 1>I met this guy. And I mean, now I'd run

0:49:18.920 --> 0:49:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a mile if I met someone like him. But I

0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:22.680
<v Speaker 1>think at the time I was just so naive.

0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Also Bali, it's Bali, you know.

0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:29.600
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, I had left my ex, you know,

0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:31.880
<v Speaker 1>like six months prior to that. You know, I was

0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.480
<v Speaker 1>very naive. I was very open and raw hearted, you know.

0:49:35.640 --> 0:49:39.319
<v Speaker 1>I think my ex had moved on so quickly that

0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:41.120
<v Speaker 1>I think there was a part in me that also

0:49:41.160 --> 0:49:44.040
<v Speaker 1>wanted that validation, and I was desperate for an anchor,

0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:47.120
<v Speaker 1>like I wanted my person. I think I went for

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:50.120
<v Speaker 1>a really long time after that into every dating experience,

0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 1>wanting that person to be my anchor and just putting

0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:55.600
<v Speaker 1>so much. You know, I think we can all when

0:49:55.600 --> 0:49:58.640
<v Speaker 1>we're dating put a little too much into but I

0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:00.560
<v Speaker 1>think for me, I was like, oh, no, you have

0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>to be everything and this has to be it and

0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:03.200
<v Speaker 1>this has to work.

0:50:03.239 --> 0:50:07.040
<v Speaker 2>And like what I think, I had nothing And when

0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:11.759
<v Speaker 2>you so sexually, also then you'd had an awakening by

0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:16.440
<v Speaker 2>this time, or you had that physical yearning that you

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.680
<v Speaker 2>hitherto had not really had no And it's.

0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:22.800
<v Speaker 1>So weird because actually, the whole time I was with Stephen,

0:50:23.680 --> 0:50:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I did kind of feel like I was a sexual person,

0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:28.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, like I used to sneakily watch porn and

0:50:29.000 --> 0:50:32.080
<v Speaker 1>masturbate and you know, so I felt like I had

0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:33.799
<v Speaker 1>this in me and so it was very confusing that

0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:36.800
<v Speaker 1>that didn't align with what my body was doing. Yeah,

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.120
<v Speaker 1>And so then after I left him, I went to therapy,

0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.560
<v Speaker 1>I went and saw a gynecologist, and like sort of

0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:46.360
<v Speaker 1>combined with those two things, within months, I was able

0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 1>to have sex. But I mean, you can think that

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the first time you had sex, like I just feel

0:50:52.600 --> 0:50:55.480
<v Speaker 1>like I was thirty two and I'm having sex for

0:50:55.520 --> 0:51:02.000
<v Speaker 1>the first time. So it's just not great. It's very unsatisfying.

0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:05.560
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of awkward. You know, in a perfect world,

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:07.279
<v Speaker 1>it would have been great if I had met someone

0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:10.319
<v Speaker 1>who was kind and nurturing and really like helped me

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:12.879
<v Speaker 1>through that process. But I didn't. And then I think

0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 1>in a weird way, I would kind of just like,

0:51:15.239 --> 0:51:17.200
<v Speaker 1>not trauma dump, but I'd be like, oh, I've never

0:51:17.239 --> 0:51:19.840
<v Speaker 1>had sex or like, you know, and so then obviously

0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:21.640
<v Speaker 1>that's going to put a hell of a lot of pressure,

0:51:23.000 --> 0:51:25.120
<v Speaker 1>which I thought it was helping, but I guess in

0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:27.320
<v Speaker 1>hindsight it probably made them so anxious.

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 2>And then that was a lot of the work that

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:33.480
<v Speaker 2>you had to do as well when you were analyzing

0:51:33.520 --> 0:51:37.440
<v Speaker 2>your relationships, so with your mother's side of the family

0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that that you then rediscovered and then kind of moved

0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:48.480
<v Speaker 2>away from again with various romantic relationships. Then you find

0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:52.640
<v Speaker 2>yourself working in South Africa, there's another sexual assault, then

0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:58.480
<v Speaker 2>there's actually rape. You really were thrust out into a

0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:02.600
<v Speaker 2>world where you you had to try. I feel like

0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:06.279
<v Speaker 2>you had to explain yourself. But the explaining yourself didn't help,

0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Like you see.

0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:11.000
<v Speaker 1>It, Yeah, I think it. It did multiple things and

0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:15.839
<v Speaker 1>none of them were helpful. I think I did it

0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:18.920
<v Speaker 1>because I had no strong sense of my own self

0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and identity. I think I didn't want people to feel

0:52:23.000 --> 0:52:25.160
<v Speaker 1>sorry for me. But I also think that I didn't

0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:27.160
<v Speaker 1>know how to connect with people. And I realized very

0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:30.080
<v Speaker 1>early on that people were interested in the cult and trauma,

0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 1>and so I think that attracted a very specific kind

0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:36.000
<v Speaker 1>of person both ically.

0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Mean as well. Yes, so for me, like because of

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the chasteness of that's associated with you being in the cult,

0:52:47.520 --> 0:52:50.840
<v Speaker 2>there's obviously going to be some sort of man who's

0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:53.279
<v Speaker 2>attracted to that just for the sense that he can

0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of violate this chaste creature.

0:52:57.400 --> 0:53:00.600
<v Speaker 1>I think there was some of that. I think there

0:53:00.680 --> 0:53:04.880
<v Speaker 1>was also a lot of I would be very open

0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:07.400
<v Speaker 1>with the fact that I was a bit lost and

0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:09.360
<v Speaker 1>that I didn't have family, and you know, so I

0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:12.080
<v Speaker 1>think it really appealed to people that liked to be needed,

0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:15.239
<v Speaker 1>and I think there were men who really wanted to

0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:17.200
<v Speaker 1>you know what. I'd say, oh, I don't think I've

0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.040
<v Speaker 1>ever been in love, and then they'd be like, I'll

0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:21.440
<v Speaker 1>be the one to save you. But they kind of

0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:23.920
<v Speaker 1>came in empty handed, but they wanted to be like

0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:26.400
<v Speaker 1>that feeled their ego, I think a little bit like

0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:28.439
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to be the one just for the sake

0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:30.920
<v Speaker 1>of being not because they actually cared about me or

0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:34.239
<v Speaker 1>they were like had genuine intentions, but I think they

0:53:34.440 --> 0:53:36.759
<v Speaker 1>liked the ego boost, and I would just go in

0:53:36.800 --> 0:53:39.239
<v Speaker 1>all head first, like I'd be like, this is you know,

0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:41.279
<v Speaker 1>like when I met the guy in Bali, I was like, Oh, yeah,

0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:43.359
<v Speaker 1>this is it, you know, And then I think when

0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:46.239
<v Speaker 1>it came to it, they're like, oh no, this isn't

0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:48.880
<v Speaker 1>a thing, you know, Like once the thrill wore off

0:53:49.560 --> 0:53:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and I would think it was going somewhere and they'd

0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:52.880
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh no, no, I don't.

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Know what you thought this was.

0:53:53.800 --> 0:53:56.880
<v Speaker 1>And I'd be like, wait what and what did.

0:53:56.719 --> 0:53:58.760
<v Speaker 2>You learn that you really wanted?

0:54:01.880 --> 0:54:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Gosh ah, Like I don't know, like when it comes

0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:09.279
<v Speaker 1>to dating in that sense, Like at the time, I

0:54:09.320 --> 0:54:11.279
<v Speaker 1>think I did get to a point though, where I'd

0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:15.040
<v Speaker 1>had so many traumatic experiences. And I not that I

0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.200
<v Speaker 1>blame myself necessarily for any of those things, obviously, like

0:54:18.239 --> 0:54:21.200
<v Speaker 1>there were some really horrific experiences, but I am a

0:54:21.320 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 1>very firm believer in like personal accountability, and I feel

0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:28.360
<v Speaker 1>like if the same things in different you know, situation,

0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:30.560
<v Speaker 1>they keep on occurring. I was like, I'm the common

0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:35.480
<v Speaker 1>denominator here, like something in me is attracting these situations

0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:38.719
<v Speaker 1>and people into my life. What can I work on

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:41.000
<v Speaker 1>so that I stop attracting those people into my life

0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:44.120
<v Speaker 1>and these traumatic situations. And so I think I really

0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:46.839
<v Speaker 1>realized that not only did I need to really pull

0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:50.080
<v Speaker 1>back from dating and even making friends, but I just

0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:52.359
<v Speaker 1>kind of needed to hunk down for like a year

0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:56.000
<v Speaker 1>or two and just really focus on myself and healing

0:54:56.160 --> 0:55:00.360
<v Speaker 1>and learning about myself and building my community like a

0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:03.480
<v Speaker 1>really meaningful and intentional way. And I couldn't build my

0:55:03.520 --> 0:55:06.759
<v Speaker 1>community until I learned about myself. And then I learned

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:09.000
<v Speaker 1>about myself, and then my community kind of just came.

0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 1>And I think I had been going to all the

0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.520
<v Speaker 1>wrong places and all the wrong people just being like

0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:16.719
<v Speaker 1>it was almost like I was just gathering people into

0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, I was just like so desperate to be

0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:20.239
<v Speaker 1>I was like, you'll do you. And now I look

0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:21.440
<v Speaker 1>back at a lot of those people and like, then

0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:24.000
<v Speaker 1>some of those people were nice enough people tho or whatever,

0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:26.680
<v Speaker 1>but they weren't for me, Like they weren't for what

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:28.719
<v Speaker 1>I've been through and the kind of person I am

0:55:28.760 --> 0:55:30.839
<v Speaker 1>and the way I show up in the world. I

0:55:30.920 --> 0:55:34.160
<v Speaker 1>need a very specific kind of genuine, authentic, vulnerable person

0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:36.080
<v Speaker 1>who's going to match that and not see that as

0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:40.960
<v Speaker 1>a way to leverage their own ego their own needs,

0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:41.279
<v Speaker 1>you know.

0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:45.839
<v Speaker 2>And you have you found that? Yeah, now you've found

0:55:45.840 --> 0:55:49.120
<v Speaker 2>a significant one significant person.

0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Or oh no, I don't have that. Yeah I'm booked

0:55:52.520 --> 0:55:54.880
<v Speaker 1>and busy now, No, like I think, but what I

0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:58.759
<v Speaker 1>have is I have family. Now, I have people that

0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:01.920
<v Speaker 1>I can call my family. I have a career that

0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:07.040
<v Speaker 1>I love. I have such incredible people in my life that, yes,

0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:09.319
<v Speaker 1>I would love someone to share my life with. But

0:56:09.400 --> 0:56:11.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm also glad that I never settled with any of

0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:14.160
<v Speaker 1>those people that I thought that I wanted something with

0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:17.239
<v Speaker 1>because I almost I was saying to someone yesterday, I

0:56:17.280 --> 0:56:18.759
<v Speaker 1>almost kind of get the EQ when I think about

0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:20.800
<v Speaker 1>them now, because I'm like, they liked a very broken

0:56:20.880 --> 0:56:23.680
<v Speaker 1>version of me, right, and that tells me everything about them.

0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.280
<v Speaker 1>And so I'm like, now I feel so incredibly whole

0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:29.439
<v Speaker 1>as a human. I like who I am. I love

0:56:29.480 --> 0:56:31.799
<v Speaker 1>the life I have. Anyone who comes into my life

0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:34.040
<v Speaker 1>is just going to add to that. I'm not like

0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:36.640
<v Speaker 1>sitting here being like, can you like feel this huge

0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:40.200
<v Speaker 1>void in me? And so yeah, I would love to

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.160
<v Speaker 1>have someone to share my life with, but it's no

0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:45.920
<v Speaker 1>longer something that I'm desperately seeking and that I'm waiting

0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:48.440
<v Speaker 1>for someone else to fill this hole. I feel like

0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I have such a fool and loved and like happy

0:56:52.280 --> 0:56:55.960
<v Speaker 1>life that it's yeah, if it happens, it happens. If

0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:58.640
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't, I'll be okay when you've.

0:56:58.480 --> 0:57:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Really given yourself freedom, which is probably really the only

0:57:04.920 --> 0:57:09.000
<v Speaker 2>place that can come from. But there's always the shadow

0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:14.000
<v Speaker 2>figures of the past, and they seem to dog you

0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:18.560
<v Speaker 2>for a long time. You had a reunion with your father,

0:57:19.680 --> 0:57:21.800
<v Speaker 2>m And how is that?

0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Ah? It was a few years ago now, And it

0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:28.280
<v Speaker 1>was actually when I was still with Stephen and he

0:57:28.360 --> 0:57:31.120
<v Speaker 1>had reached out. So he had actually left the cults

0:57:32.000 --> 0:57:36.960
<v Speaker 1>a year or two after I gotten married. And so

0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:37.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess when.

0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I your mother hadn't Your mother had no My.

0:57:40.480 --> 0:57:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Mother hasn't, and she's still in it. My mom hasn't

0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:44.920
<v Speaker 1>spoken to me since I left.

0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Which must have been an enormous strain on their marriage.

0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I guess I think I can't speak for their marriage,

0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:57.560
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like I don't know that how much

0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:00.560
<v Speaker 1>would have changed, Like I don't I never looked at

0:58:00.560 --> 0:58:02.840
<v Speaker 1>my parents and thought that there were two people madly

0:58:02.880 --> 0:58:05.240
<v Speaker 1>in love. I think it was a very.

0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:07.920
<v Speaker 2>But as long as they had that in common, that

0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:13.520
<v Speaker 2>was the yoke that bound them. If your father stepped

0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:21.760
<v Speaker 2>away from that, the tension within that relationship, yeah.

0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:25.200
<v Speaker 1>I imagine, and my mum, while she still remains in

0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the church, can't leave my dad, and because that's against

0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:31.840
<v Speaker 1>their belief, she can't get divorced. He would have to

0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:34.560
<v Speaker 1>leave her, and I just don't I think he's probably

0:58:34.600 --> 0:58:37.520
<v Speaker 1>very comfortable, you know. I don't think that he probably

0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:39.280
<v Speaker 1>feels any need, you know, because she would still be

0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:41.840
<v Speaker 1>fulfilling all her wifely duties, cooking and cleaning, doing all

0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:44.880
<v Speaker 1>that stuff, you know. Yeah, So my dad reached out.

0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:48.200
<v Speaker 1>I was still with Stephen, and I actually it was

0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:50.680
<v Speaker 1>actually really lovely. He was like, you know, I realized

0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:53.560
<v Speaker 1>that I probably wasn't a great dad, and that we

0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:56.960
<v Speaker 1>could have done things differently, and I would love to

0:58:58.120 --> 0:59:02.000
<v Speaker 1>come and see you. And it was a message I

0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:04.080
<v Speaker 1>never expected to get from my dad. He wasn't the

0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:09.640
<v Speaker 1>most emotionally aware person and you know, quite closed off emotionally,

0:59:09.760 --> 0:59:11.520
<v Speaker 1>and just never thought that I would get that kind

0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:14.520
<v Speaker 1>of recognition from him, and I wasn't waiting for it either,

0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Like I was just you know, by the time I

0:59:15.920 --> 0:59:18.040
<v Speaker 1>left the cult, I had no interest in connecting with him.

0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:20.120
<v Speaker 1>The only I say my book, the only thing that

0:59:20.480 --> 0:59:22.720
<v Speaker 1>connected me to my dad and my brother was trauma.

0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:25.480
<v Speaker 1>And so you know, I hadn't wanted to reach out

0:59:25.480 --> 0:59:28.200
<v Speaker 1>to him, and I was like, okay, and you know,

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I'd found out that he hadn't been well, and so

0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:32.160
<v Speaker 1>he was in the process of getting a bunch of

0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:34.560
<v Speaker 1>tests done, and you know that's I guess where this

0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:38.320
<v Speaker 1>like moment of mortality came from, where he was like, oh,

0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:41.240
<v Speaker 1>I better make things right. He wasn't able to come

0:59:41.280 --> 0:59:43.760
<v Speaker 1>down and see me for about a month, and by

0:59:43.800 --> 0:59:45.880
<v Speaker 1>the time he came down, found out that he wasn't

0:59:45.920 --> 0:59:49.560
<v Speaker 1>dying and he was fine, and and so that that

0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:53.560
<v Speaker 1>little moment of recognition had just completely dissipated, right, We

0:59:53.640 --> 0:59:56.800
<v Speaker 1>never had it turned off, turned off, and he was

0:59:56.840 --> 0:59:59.080
<v Speaker 1>back to the same person that I'd grown up with,

0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:02.200
<v Speaker 1>and we never had a conversation, never had any moment

1:00:02.280 --> 1:00:06.520
<v Speaker 1>of recognition or acknowledgment. And he went home, and I remember,

1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that broke my heart even more because it

1:00:09.040 --> 1:00:12.120
<v Speaker 1>was that moment where I realized he could be aware,

1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:14.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, he did kind.

1:00:14.000 --> 1:00:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Of know go somewhere. Yes, Yeah, And.

1:00:16.320 --> 1:00:18.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it was almost easier imagining that he just

1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:21.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't have the emotional capacity to understand, but to know

1:00:21.760 --> 1:00:24.600
<v Speaker 1>that he actually did have that but just didn't want to.

1:00:24.680 --> 1:00:26.360
<v Speaker 1>It was just easy for him not to have that

1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:28.640
<v Speaker 1>conversation ultimately because it didn't serve him.

1:00:29.080 --> 1:00:29.240
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I think when it served him, he wanted to have

1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:32.840
<v Speaker 1>that conversation, and when it no longer served him, it

1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:35.240
<v Speaker 1>was no longer of interest to him to have that conversation.

1:00:36.280 --> 1:00:37.120
<v Speaker 1>That broke my heart.

1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:40.600
<v Speaker 2>You must have this must have come up in your therapy,

1:00:41.320 --> 1:00:44.600
<v Speaker 2>As I said, You've done a lot of work, but

1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:49.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, as a child, the messages that your parents

1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:53.480
<v Speaker 2>love you more than anything in the world. Yeah, when

1:00:53.520 --> 1:01:02.480
<v Speaker 2>you haven't had that experience, how do you comfort yourself

1:01:02.680 --> 1:01:04.760
<v Speaker 2>or rationalize that to yourself.

1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I think I became really good at just like numbing

1:01:08.840 --> 1:01:14.400
<v Speaker 1>myself to things mentally, and I think I convinced myself

1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:16.920
<v Speaker 1>that my parents loved me. I had no you know,

1:01:16.960 --> 1:01:18.560
<v Speaker 1>when you're like I said, like, when you're a kid,

1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:20.280
<v Speaker 1>you just know what you know, and so I had

1:01:20.400 --> 1:01:24.320
<v Speaker 1>no perspective. I just thought that's what parents who loved

1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:29.120
<v Speaker 1>you did. And obviously, ultimately then that carried into the

1:01:29.200 --> 1:01:32.880
<v Speaker 1>kinds of relationships I had as an adult because I

1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:35.640
<v Speaker 1>had learned that love had to be earned, Yes, but

1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:37.680
<v Speaker 1>the love would have taken away and you would have

1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:41.080
<v Speaker 1>seen it in your friends, or even the life that

1:01:41.120 --> 1:01:44.320
<v Speaker 1>your mother lived before she left the car, where her

1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:46.600
<v Speaker 1>parents were all in on her and let's get her

1:01:46.600 --> 1:01:50.480
<v Speaker 1>a car and let's help her move. Yeah, I mean,

1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I think I definitely saw that when I did end

1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:55.520
<v Speaker 1>end up ultimately meeting my grandparents and my cousins and whatever,

1:01:55.520 --> 1:01:58.320
<v Speaker 1>and I had this moment where I was like, huh,

1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:02.320
<v Speaker 1>like this, you know, they they were just such a nice, functioning,

1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:06.800
<v Speaker 1>loving family, and they were so intertwined into each other's

1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:09.680
<v Speaker 1>lives and it was just so special, and I was like, man,

1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:12.120
<v Speaker 1>I wonder how different my life would have been had

1:02:12.160 --> 1:02:14.200
<v Speaker 1>I grown up with these guys also in my life,

1:02:14.240 --> 1:02:16.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe my parents could have been what they were,

1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:19.160
<v Speaker 1>But then I could have like, you know, disappeared to

1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:21.640
<v Speaker 1>my grandparents' house and had some respite and had some

1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:24.400
<v Speaker 1>examples of healthy love and what family should look like.

1:02:24.440 --> 1:02:27.160
<v Speaker 1>And even now, actually I've just I just got back

1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:29.720
<v Speaker 1>into Australia a couple of weeks ago, and I was

1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:32.600
<v Speaker 1>staying with some friends in California for about five months.

1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:37.800
<v Speaker 1>And I think staying with them was really the first

1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:40.320
<v Speaker 1>time ever in my life that I ever actually, I think,

1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:43.400
<v Speaker 1>really got to experience family. Like I think that I've

1:02:43.400 --> 1:02:45.520
<v Speaker 1>had lots of people say like, oh, yeah, we're your

1:02:45.520 --> 1:02:47.400
<v Speaker 1>family now, you know, because I think it feels something

1:02:47.400 --> 1:02:49.720
<v Speaker 1>for them as well, it makes them feel good. These

1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:53.520
<v Speaker 1>were the first people that really genuinely like we'd go

1:02:53.560 --> 1:02:54.960
<v Speaker 1>out for dinner and they'd be like, no, no, the

1:02:55.160 --> 1:02:56.720
<v Speaker 1>parents pay when we go out for dinner, Like you

1:02:56.760 --> 1:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>don't pay, and I just I'd never It's it was

1:02:59.560 --> 1:03:03.800
<v Speaker 1>just like this simplest little things that I just never experienced.

1:03:04.560 --> 1:03:06.120
<v Speaker 1>And they're like, no, but this is what parents do.

1:03:06.760 --> 1:03:09.520
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, ah, huh.

1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:10.360
<v Speaker 2>What did you know when you say it was the

1:03:10.360 --> 1:03:14.000
<v Speaker 2>first time you experienced family, What did family feel like?

1:03:16.440 --> 1:03:19.680
<v Speaker 1>I just felt like I could be like completely and

1:03:19.720 --> 1:03:22.240
<v Speaker 1>holy myself, you know, like if I wanted to spend

1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:25.680
<v Speaker 1>a whole day in bed just rotting, that didn't care

1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:33.840
<v Speaker 1>like or they would, you know, I felt like I

1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:36.480
<v Speaker 1>was gonna be loved regardless you know, like I remember

1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.200
<v Speaker 1>one day I was in a bit of a crappy

1:03:38.280 --> 1:03:41.160
<v Speaker 1>mood and like I remember just like immediately apologizing, being

1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:47.840
<v Speaker 1>like I'm so sorry, like and my friend was just like.

1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Like we all have bad days. Like I didn't even

1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't care.

1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:50.919
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, Oh, I can actually be around

1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:52.840
<v Speaker 1>people and I don't have to be perfect all the time,

1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:55.120
<v Speaker 1>because I think I just thought that I always had

1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:57.840
<v Speaker 1>to present really perfect and then people would love me.

1:03:57.880 --> 1:03:59.880
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like, oh, I can be all

1:04:00.000 --> 1:04:01.680
<v Speaker 1>all the things I am when I'm on my own

1:04:01.800 --> 1:04:04.600
<v Speaker 1>around other people, and that might actually they might even

1:04:04.640 --> 1:04:05.600
<v Speaker 1>love me more.

1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Because they get to feel like, you know, like I.

1:04:08.080 --> 1:04:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Think when we see all of you, Yes, they get

1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to love every single iteration of me. And that was

1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the first time I think I'd really wholly experienced that.

1:04:18.360 --> 1:04:20.480
<v Speaker 1>And they weren't intentionally even trying to do that, Like

1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:22.280
<v Speaker 1>they never once were like, oh where your family now?

1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean they say that now, but that was never

1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:26.640
<v Speaker 1>their intention. They just loved me because they loved me

1:04:26.720 --> 1:04:29.960
<v Speaker 1>and poured massively into this huge hole that I just

1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:31.240
<v Speaker 1>never thought whatever be felled.

1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:34.440
<v Speaker 2>So Becky, you know when you said do you realized

1:04:34.440 --> 1:04:36.880
<v Speaker 2>and this is a realization that a lot of people

1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:41.720
<v Speaker 2>never come to in their life that the common denominator

1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:46.800
<v Speaker 2>in the things that have happened to you, not excusing

1:04:46.880 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the terrible things that have happened that have been done

1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:53.000
<v Speaker 2>by bad people, but that the common denominator was you.

1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:57.480
<v Speaker 2>And you said you were attracting these things to yourself

1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:05.280
<v Speaker 2>or the wrong people to yourself. That is such a

1:05:05.320 --> 1:05:10.160
<v Speaker 2>tough realization to make about yourself. Like I said, most

1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:13.160
<v Speaker 2>people are not capable of doing it. Where did that

1:05:13.280 --> 1:05:19.720
<v Speaker 2>come from? And what was the moment where you want, oh,

1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I can, I can take some agency in this.

1:05:26.800 --> 1:05:29.840
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, for better or worse, it came from

1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:32.600
<v Speaker 1>growing up in a home where I was always I mean,

1:05:32.640 --> 1:05:34.960
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't the problem, but you know I always thought that,

1:05:35.040 --> 1:05:37.760
<v Speaker 1>so I did become very and now I feel like

1:05:37.760 --> 1:05:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that's my superpower is that I feel like I have

1:05:39.880 --> 1:05:42.360
<v Speaker 1>really good self. You know I can. I've got good

1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:47.040
<v Speaker 1>introspection into my own behaviors and other people. So it

1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:48.760
<v Speaker 1>makes me very self aware and it also makes me,

1:05:48.800 --> 1:05:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I think, very aware of other people's behaviors and why

1:05:51.360 --> 1:05:53.760
<v Speaker 1>people And I think that's a big thing in my

1:05:53.760 --> 1:05:57.280
<v Speaker 1>book that I'm very reflective. How and why people behave

1:05:57.320 --> 1:05:59.280
<v Speaker 1>the way they did. I like to understand.

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:01.600
<v Speaker 2>People even when you'res have sort of cut you off

1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:03.680
<v Speaker 2>or not cut you off, but they haven't shown the

1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:09.439
<v Speaker 2>same degree of willingness to incorporate you into their life

1:06:09.480 --> 1:06:12.640
<v Speaker 2>as you have shown to incorporate them into yours. And

1:06:12.680 --> 1:06:15.640
<v Speaker 2>then you had the realization that maybe you were a

1:06:15.640 --> 1:06:16.800
<v Speaker 2>bit needy with them.

1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Hmmm, yeah, yeah, So I think it definitely came, like

1:06:21.440 --> 1:06:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I said, from growing up in a home where I

1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:25.280
<v Speaker 1>was always made to feel like I was the problem.

1:06:25.320 --> 1:06:27.960
<v Speaker 1>But then I think as I got older, I think

1:06:28.000 --> 1:06:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I really did just want some I'm very connected to

1:06:31.160 --> 1:06:33.720
<v Speaker 1>my future self and who I want to be and

1:06:34.000 --> 1:06:37.200
<v Speaker 1>the woman I want to be, even now, like to

1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:39.280
<v Speaker 1>the point that I have to sometimes bring myself back

1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:41.320
<v Speaker 1>into the present be like just enjoy this process. I

1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:43.600
<v Speaker 1>just enjoy what's happening. But I know who I want

1:06:43.640 --> 1:06:44.880
<v Speaker 1>to be and I know where I want to be,

1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:47.040
<v Speaker 1>And so I feel like from that ten year old

1:06:47.120 --> 1:06:49.440
<v Speaker 1>me that wanted to go to school, I knew I

1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.960
<v Speaker 1>wanted freedom. I knew like I was looking ahead like

1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't just like in the moment where I'm just

1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:57.160
<v Speaker 1>like you know, so I feel For whatever reason, I've

1:06:57.200 --> 1:06:58.880
<v Speaker 1>always been very and maybe it's because I was a

1:06:58.960 --> 1:07:02.120
<v Speaker 1>day dreamers again, so I've always been very connected to

1:07:02.200 --> 1:07:04.360
<v Speaker 1>the future version of my life. And so I realized,

1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:06.480
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I don't want to keep on wasting

1:07:06.560 --> 1:07:10.960
<v Speaker 1>time having these same things reoccurring. There has to be something,

1:07:11.000 --> 1:07:13.800
<v Speaker 1>And I think I'd started to kind of claim I

1:07:13.840 --> 1:07:15.640
<v Speaker 1>can't even say reclaim because I never had it, but

1:07:15.680 --> 1:07:18.560
<v Speaker 1>I'd started to claim my power kind of bit by

1:07:18.600 --> 1:07:20.480
<v Speaker 1>bit by bit, and so I was starting to realize

1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:22.000
<v Speaker 1>from that, when I asked to go to school, I

1:07:22.040 --> 1:07:24.640
<v Speaker 1>was like, huh, I have some power, Like I can,

1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:27.120
<v Speaker 1>I can, There's something I can do. And so I

1:07:27.120 --> 1:07:30.040
<v Speaker 1>think from there I realized that one little decision I

1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:32.520
<v Speaker 1>made could have such a huge impact on my life.

1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:35.360
<v Speaker 1>And so I think I have really been aware of

1:07:35.400 --> 1:07:38.720
<v Speaker 1>the power I hold. Sometimes I've forgotten it, sometimes I've

1:07:38.720 --> 1:07:41.160
<v Speaker 1>lost it. Sometimes I've gone ten steps back. But I've

1:07:41.280 --> 1:07:44.760
<v Speaker 1>always known that I have some capacity to change the

1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:45.440
<v Speaker 1>trajectory of.

1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:47.880
<v Speaker 2>My own life. However, you know how I said, a

1:07:47.920 --> 1:07:51.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of people are not capable of doing it, because

1:07:51.280 --> 1:07:54.560
<v Speaker 2>it's a very hard thing to look inward and go, oh,

1:07:54.680 --> 1:07:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I've played a past I'm the problem. Yeah, I'm the problem.

1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:03.200
<v Speaker 1>It's me, right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean I

1:08:03.240 --> 1:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>also think too. Not many people have this moment in life,

1:08:08.200 --> 1:08:12.120
<v Speaker 1>and I've had it twice where I've lost everything and

1:08:12.200 --> 1:08:15.479
<v Speaker 1>I've had to start from a complete blank slate, which

1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:19.000
<v Speaker 1>is awful but also very liberating because you really get

1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:21.720
<v Speaker 1>to think about who you are at your core. And

1:08:21.720 --> 1:08:23.479
<v Speaker 1>I remember once I was in a job interview and

1:08:23.520 --> 1:08:25.760
<v Speaker 1>it was not long after i'd left the cult, and

1:08:25.800 --> 1:08:27.880
<v Speaker 1>they said to me, like, what are your values? And

1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:30.360
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I know, like what I'd been told

1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:32.240
<v Speaker 1>what my values were, and so then I was like, okay, right,

1:08:32.240 --> 1:08:33.360
<v Speaker 1>I need to think about my values.

1:08:33.400 --> 1:08:34.040
<v Speaker 2>What do I value?

1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:36.320
<v Speaker 1>And so most people don't really have to think about

1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:38.599
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. Like I had to think about what

1:08:38.680 --> 1:08:40.519
<v Speaker 1>kind of friendships do I want to have, and I'd

1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:42.639
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh nope, not that one. You know, I'd

1:08:42.680 --> 1:08:45.280
<v Speaker 1>go through this process of elimination and I had to

1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:47.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of work out on the go what worked me,

1:08:47.800 --> 1:08:52.080
<v Speaker 1>what didn't, and then keep on realigning myself and like readjusting.

1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:53.759
<v Speaker 1>But most people don't.

1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Have to do that.

1:08:54.080 --> 1:08:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, like, you know, you read that bit

1:08:55.760 --> 1:08:58.000
<v Speaker 1>from my book where it's like most people have that

1:08:58.080 --> 1:08:59.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of core anchor.

1:08:59.160 --> 1:09:00.360
<v Speaker 2>In the world.

1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So again I think that maybe holds people back

1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:05.200
<v Speaker 1>because I think you don't really.

1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Need to events.

1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, you don't get to reinvent yourself as much

1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:13.040
<v Speaker 1>because your parents are always going to see you as Kate,

1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:15.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, like your friends from school are always going

1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:18.639
<v Speaker 1>to see you as Kate at school and like, whereas

1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:20.479
<v Speaker 1>I had no one in my life who knew any

1:09:20.560 --> 1:09:22.200
<v Speaker 1>version of me, and so then I was like, Hey,

1:09:22.200 --> 1:09:24.639
<v Speaker 1>who do I get to be? And for a little while,

1:09:24.680 --> 1:09:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I think I picked up versions of everybody else and

1:09:26.720 --> 1:09:30.000
<v Speaker 1>I was this weird like jigsaw puzzle of everyone else's identities.

1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:31.559
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like, I don't like this either.

1:09:32.120 --> 1:09:33.599
<v Speaker 1>So then I kind of had to work on myself

1:09:33.640 --> 1:09:36.800
<v Speaker 1>to just become more holy me. And I definitely think

1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:38.639
<v Speaker 1>that came from traveling on my own.

1:09:39.160 --> 1:09:43.120
<v Speaker 2>When you say you are, you always hold a vision

1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:48.760
<v Speaker 2>of the future you for yourself in ten ten years time.

1:09:48.880 --> 1:09:51.679
<v Speaker 2>You say you know where you want to be, where

1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:53.320
<v Speaker 2>is that? And who are you?

1:09:53.840 --> 1:09:56.120
<v Speaker 1>So it's really interesting because for a really long time

1:09:56.160 --> 1:09:57.840
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I just want to be happy and

1:09:57.920 --> 1:10:01.000
<v Speaker 1>free and travel and you know, and when in a

1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:03.960
<v Speaker 1>couple of years ago, I met someone who was quite

1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:06.360
<v Speaker 1>successful and do it, and I was like, oh, I

1:10:06.400 --> 1:10:09.600
<v Speaker 1>could do that too, Like I could be successful, you know,

1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:12.120
<v Speaker 1>like I had dreamed so small because that's all I knew.

1:10:12.120 --> 1:10:14.519
<v Speaker 1>And then I feel like the more I meet people

1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and expand my world, then the more other perspectives get

1:10:17.880 --> 1:10:19.200
<v Speaker 1>to come into my world and I get to then

1:10:19.240 --> 1:10:22.160
<v Speaker 1>imagine more. And so it's not really like this fixed

1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:24.800
<v Speaker 1>like oh, I want to live on this multimillion dollar

1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:27.800
<v Speaker 1>match and buy the you know, it's not that, It's

1:10:27.880 --> 1:10:30.280
<v Speaker 1>just I think I want to keep on growing and

1:10:30.320 --> 1:10:38.360
<v Speaker 1>evolving and expanding my perspective and continue becoming like you know,

1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:41.519
<v Speaker 1>like I think Kim Kardashian said, like I didn't come

1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:44.000
<v Speaker 1>this far to come this far, you know, Like you know,

1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:46.439
<v Speaker 1>I want to keep on like going like I want to.

1:10:46.840 --> 1:10:48.640
<v Speaker 1>And there is a line where I'm like, you know,

1:10:48.720 --> 1:10:50.280
<v Speaker 1>coming back to Sydney, I'm like, oh man, it would

1:10:50.280 --> 1:10:51.960
<v Speaker 1>be nice to have an apartment and not live out

1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:53.880
<v Speaker 1>of two suitcases. And you know, I've had the I

1:10:53.880 --> 1:10:55.840
<v Speaker 1>think I was in twenty three countries last year, you know,

1:10:55.920 --> 1:10:57.479
<v Speaker 1>so I'm like part of me is like, you know,

1:10:57.520 --> 1:10:59.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm forty one a couple of months. I wouldn't mind

1:11:00.160 --> 1:11:03.720
<v Speaker 1>just slowing down, just like a little bit. But I

1:11:04.240 --> 1:11:07.240
<v Speaker 1>feel so incredibly content and so excited for my future.

1:11:07.360 --> 1:11:10.120
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, honestly like there is so many more

1:11:10.120 --> 1:11:13.080
<v Speaker 1>incredible things to come. So it's it's not like a

1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:15.000
<v Speaker 1>fixed idea of what I want my future to be.

1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:17.000
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to continue on this trajectory.

1:11:17.360 --> 1:11:20.400
<v Speaker 2>The producer of No Filter, Bree and I were both

1:11:20.520 --> 1:11:24.519
<v Speaker 2>struck by when you came in how you did not

1:11:24.600 --> 1:11:28.719
<v Speaker 2>look like what we expected you to look like. Yeah,

1:11:28.760 --> 1:11:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and I don't even know what it was that I expected,

1:11:31.600 --> 1:11:36.680
<v Speaker 2>but I certainly didn't expect you to have such an

1:11:36.720 --> 1:11:41.240
<v Speaker 2>alive kind of beach girl vibe. Do you know what

1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:46.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean? Like to be so glowy and happy and light,

1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:51.479
<v Speaker 2>to feel so light? And yet your book is called

1:11:51.479 --> 1:11:55.200
<v Speaker 2>can You Handle a Girl like Me? Now you seem

1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:59.840
<v Speaker 2>like you'd be quite easy to handle. You seem like before,

1:12:01.360 --> 1:12:06.719
<v Speaker 2>what's what's going on there? The name of the book, and.

1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:13.000
<v Speaker 1>That, Yeah, Yeah, I think I really love my life,

1:12:13.360 --> 1:12:16.880
<v Speaker 1>and I think I was so determined to not waste

1:12:17.040 --> 1:12:19.960
<v Speaker 1>this second chance at life that I've been given, and

1:12:20.120 --> 1:12:22.920
<v Speaker 1>that didn't mean not feeling my things and I definitely

1:12:22.960 --> 1:12:25.600
<v Speaker 1>had a couple of really rough years, and you know,

1:12:25.880 --> 1:12:29.479
<v Speaker 1>I am, I've definitely yeah, I've definitely been through it,

1:12:29.640 --> 1:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>and I've been down and out, and I've been in

1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.519
<v Speaker 1>therapy a bunch of times and whatever. But I really

1:12:34.680 --> 1:12:36.519
<v Speaker 1>getting back to what we're just talking about, like I

1:12:36.600 --> 1:12:39.800
<v Speaker 1>really was so connected to where I wanted to be

1:12:40.160 --> 1:12:42.720
<v Speaker 1>and future me that it was all worth it. I

1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:44.120
<v Speaker 1>was like, I want to sit in the mud as

1:12:44.160 --> 1:12:45.960
<v Speaker 1>long as I need to and work through all this

1:12:45.960 --> 1:12:47.880
<v Speaker 1>stuff so I can just get on with my life,

1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:50.360
<v Speaker 1>Like I don't want to carry all this stuff with

1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:52.800
<v Speaker 1>me for the rest of my life. And that's been

1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:55.439
<v Speaker 1>probably the most intentional. I think it's been the greatest

1:12:55.479 --> 1:12:59.439
<v Speaker 1>gift I've given myself, because this isn't fake, Like I'm not,

1:12:59.680 --> 1:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>you know. But I also I see so many people

1:13:02.200 --> 1:13:05.639
<v Speaker 1>that go through really traumatic things in life and they

1:13:05.720 --> 1:13:07.800
<v Speaker 1>just then carry it around with them. And I know,

1:13:07.880 --> 1:13:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I understand that everyone deals with things differently. I just

1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:13.080
<v Speaker 1>think for me, I didn't want to do that. I

1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:16.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to I wanted to take as much advantage

1:13:16.880 --> 1:13:20.240
<v Speaker 1>of this chance I'd been given at life and make

1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:22.400
<v Speaker 1>the most of it. And so that was like really

1:13:22.439 --> 1:13:27.800
<v Speaker 1>important to me. And again, I think, for whatever reason,

1:13:27.840 --> 1:13:30.360
<v Speaker 1>I just have this disposition where I was just able

1:13:30.479 --> 1:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>to really you know, I think I left at the

1:13:32.680 --> 1:13:35.040
<v Speaker 1>right age that I still felt like I had so

1:13:35.120 --> 1:13:37.000
<v Speaker 1>much life ahead of me. I left my marriage at

1:13:37.120 --> 1:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, my early thirties, so I felt like I

1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:41.320
<v Speaker 1>could really still get out there and enjoy my life

1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:46.120
<v Speaker 1>and reinvent myself and have a lot of those formative

1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:48.160
<v Speaker 1>experiences that I felt that i'd been denied. So I

1:13:48.160 --> 1:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>don't really have any regret. And I think I feel

1:13:51.880 --> 1:13:53.799
<v Speaker 1>like in a lot of weird ways, like I'm aging backwards.

1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Like I had to dig up some you know, older

1:13:56.160 --> 1:13:57.960
<v Speaker 1>photos of me the other day and I was like,

1:13:58.000 --> 1:13:59.720
<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh, like I look so much older than

1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:03.559
<v Speaker 1>in my twenties than I do now. And yeah, I

1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:07.080
<v Speaker 1>guess the title of my book was I think I

1:14:07.439 --> 1:14:09.559
<v Speaker 1>am pretty easy going, but I think it sometimes lulls

1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:12.439
<v Speaker 1>people into this false sense of security as well, you know,

1:14:12.479 --> 1:14:15.720
<v Speaker 1>because I am I'm deeply passionate about things I'm so

1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:19.120
<v Speaker 1>passionate about like feminism and politics, and I will stand

1:14:19.160 --> 1:14:22.479
<v Speaker 1>toe to toe to someone on it because I might

1:14:22.560 --> 1:14:25.639
<v Speaker 1>look like a sweet little white girl, but like, I

1:14:25.720 --> 1:14:27.920
<v Speaker 1>know what it's like to not have my rights. I

1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:29.920
<v Speaker 1>know what it's like to have to really fight for things.

1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I know what it's like to not have anyone else

1:14:31.800 --> 1:14:34.439
<v Speaker 1>in the world. I know what it's like to be

1:14:34.520 --> 1:14:37.920
<v Speaker 1>denied in education. Like, I have so many deep perspectives

1:14:37.920 --> 1:14:41.920
<v Speaker 1>on life that make me really angry about injustices. And

1:14:42.360 --> 1:14:45.840
<v Speaker 1>I will absolutely stand up loudly and proudly for the

1:14:45.840 --> 1:14:47.840
<v Speaker 1>things that I believe in. And I think when I

1:14:47.880 --> 1:14:50.800
<v Speaker 1>came up with the title for my book, I was

1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:53.000
<v Speaker 1>that was sort of at the very early stages of writing,

1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>and I was feeling really powerful and really brave, and

1:14:57.160 --> 1:14:58.679
<v Speaker 1>so I think that's where it came from.

1:14:58.960 --> 1:15:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Spiritually, where do you sit now?

1:15:02.400 --> 1:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>I think growing up in such a binary where it

1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:07.280
<v Speaker 1>was like we are right, everyone else is wrong, even

1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:11.479
<v Speaker 1>other Christians. I would say that I'm a spiritual person.

1:15:13.320 --> 1:15:18.000
<v Speaker 1>What that is couldn't tell you. I believe in karma.

1:15:18.240 --> 1:15:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I believe that there's maybe a higher power out there.

1:15:21.160 --> 1:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>I think things happen sometimes you're like, what the.

1:15:23.840 --> 1:15:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Hell was that.

1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't feel like I have to know, though, Like

1:15:27.479 --> 1:15:30.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't feel like and I don't feel like I

1:15:30.120 --> 1:15:32.640
<v Speaker 1>know enough to say that God doesn't exist.

1:15:33.200 --> 1:15:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I also don't know if he does exist. Do you

1:15:35.080 --> 1:15:39.360
<v Speaker 2>still pray? Obviously not the way not for eight hours

1:15:39.439 --> 1:15:41.200
<v Speaker 2>on nis No.

1:15:41.280 --> 1:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean I meditate. I feel very like spiritual in

1:15:45.160 --> 1:15:50.120
<v Speaker 1>some ways. But I think that in the same way

1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>that I think you can have hell on earth by

1:15:52.400 --> 1:15:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the choices you make and the life you live, I

1:15:55.040 --> 1:15:56.840
<v Speaker 1>think that you can also have Heaven on earth. And

1:15:56.880 --> 1:16:00.320
<v Speaker 1>I think that it's rather than I think what old

1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:03.599
<v Speaker 1>school Christianity will taught me was that it was a

1:16:03.640 --> 1:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>physical place. You know, you die and God will return

1:16:06.200 --> 1:16:07.840
<v Speaker 1>to Earth and then your soul will get sucked up

1:16:07.840 --> 1:16:10.240
<v Speaker 1>into heaven. And hell is like a physical place where

1:16:10.240 --> 1:16:12.920
<v Speaker 1>there's weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and people

1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:15.240
<v Speaker 1>are just going to burn for all of eternity. I

1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:17.519
<v Speaker 1>think those two things are actually here on Earth. And

1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the kind of person that you are

1:16:19.400 --> 1:16:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and the way you show up in the world and

1:16:20.560 --> 1:16:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the way you treat other people. You can experience either

1:16:23.280 --> 1:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>of those things.

1:16:24.640 --> 1:16:27.679
<v Speaker 2>The little girl, the ten year old girl who wasn't

1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>allowed to be curious. When you think back to her,

1:16:33.120 --> 1:16:34.719
<v Speaker 2>does it feel like you.

1:16:36.760 --> 1:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, this is the only thing that makes me feel emotional.

1:16:39.080 --> 1:16:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And when I think about her. It doesn't. I feel

1:16:46.920 --> 1:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>so disconnected from her in a lot of ways, but

1:16:51.880 --> 1:16:54.080
<v Speaker 1>I also still feel her inside of me, and I

1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:58.519
<v Speaker 1>know that she would be so incredibly proud of like

1:16:58.560 --> 1:17:02.160
<v Speaker 1>who I've become, because I think I've even far exceeded

1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:04.120
<v Speaker 1>what I imagined. You know. I just wanted to be free,

1:17:04.200 --> 1:17:05.559
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, I want to be free. I

1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:07.519
<v Speaker 1>want to go travel and maybe get a tattoo, you know.

1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:11.240
<v Speaker 1>And now I'm sitting here promoting my book and like,

1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:13.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've just come back from like I've been.

1:17:13.760 --> 1:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>I've spent more time out of Australia in the last

1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:18.120
<v Speaker 1>eight years and I have inside of Australia like I've

1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I've far exceeded anything she ever imagined. What I think

1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:26.720
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be free. I just don't think I

1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:28.519
<v Speaker 1>knew what that looked like. And so when I was

1:17:28.600 --> 1:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>ten and I begged my parents to let me go

1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:32.880
<v Speaker 1>to school, that was that was that was freedom for me.

1:17:33.000 --> 1:17:34.599
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, I can just if I can

1:17:34.640 --> 1:17:37.120
<v Speaker 1>just like get out from underneath, you know, my parents

1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:39.040
<v Speaker 1>for a minute and the cult. And so I remember

1:17:39.080 --> 1:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>being at school for those six years and that was

1:17:42.479 --> 1:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>so I loved school, like didn't learn a hell of

1:17:45.000 --> 1:17:47.439
<v Speaker 1>a lot. But I loved school. I just had the

1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:50.720
<v Speaker 1>best time. I felt like that was the first time

1:17:50.760 --> 1:17:53.000
<v Speaker 1>in my life I really got to be me. And

1:17:53.040 --> 1:17:56.479
<v Speaker 1>then I had to leave school at sixteen and I

1:17:56.560 --> 1:17:58.719
<v Speaker 1>had to go get a job, and I just felt

1:17:58.720 --> 1:18:02.160
<v Speaker 1>like I was back to school one and so I

1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:05.360
<v Speaker 1>felt like I really held onto those six years as like, Okay,

1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know there's more that's possible, and so

1:18:09.040 --> 1:18:12.040
<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, I feel like ten year old me

1:18:12.120 --> 1:18:14.160
<v Speaker 1>just wanted to be free. And then all these extra

1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:16.479
<v Speaker 1>things came. I got to experience, you know, being loved

1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:19.160
<v Speaker 1>and family and like all these other amazing things. But

1:18:19.479 --> 1:18:20.719
<v Speaker 1>I really just wanted freedom.

1:18:21.400 --> 1:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Bet Contello, congratulations on your freedom. Congratulations on your book

1:18:27.600 --> 1:18:29.519
<v Speaker 2>and your quest for life.

1:18:29.880 --> 1:18:31.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm happy to be here here and in the world.

1:18:34.360 --> 1:18:37.479
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, I'm it's it's such a whirl riend right now,

1:18:37.479 --> 1:18:38.800
<v Speaker 1>and I just I have to count and keep on

1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:41.479
<v Speaker 1>pinching myself that I'm even here, Like it's just it

1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:42.479
<v Speaker 1>feels so surreal.

1:18:42.880 --> 1:18:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, you won't be here for long, You're no doubt

1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:45.759
<v Speaker 2>jetting off somewhere else.

1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:47.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm going to be in Sydney to the

1:18:47.280 --> 1:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>end of the year I'm forcing myself to stay put

1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:54.000
<v Speaker 1>for a minute, but then who knows? Twenty twenty seven.

1:18:54.040 --> 1:18:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you for sharing your story.

1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Kate.

1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:58.640
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that stayed with me after this

1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>conversation was the ida that leaving isn't always the end

1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:05.880
<v Speaker 2>of a story. Sometimes it's just the beginning of one.

1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Beck didn't just leave a church. She left behind a

1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:13.160
<v Speaker 2>version of herself that had been shaped by other people's expectations,

1:19:13.720 --> 1:19:17.880
<v Speaker 2>and spent years figuring out who she wanted to be instead.

1:19:18.120 --> 1:19:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Details about her memoir Can You Handle a Girl Like

1:19:20.880 --> 1:19:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Me are linked in the show notes. Thank you for

1:19:24.160 --> 1:19:27.080
<v Speaker 2>listening to No Filter. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd

1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:30.040
<v Speaker 2>love you to subscribe, leave a review, and share it

1:19:30.080 --> 1:19:33.560
<v Speaker 2>with someone else who may enjoy it. Also, I'm Kate Lanebrook.

1:19:33.960 --> 1:19:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll be back next Monday.