Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: A Gwyneth Paltrow profile cover story in fact, dropped in
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair today, and there are so many morsels.
Speaker 2: It's like hilarious how she is the most rarefied and
Speaker 2: the most basic at the same time.
Speaker 3: And she's also following in the footsteps she says of
Speaker 3: a camera dias.
Speaker 1: Except you're just basic.
Speaker 2: But I haven't got SHITLINGKF, Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia.
Speaker 2: Out loud, what women actually talking about On Wednesday, the
Speaker 2: nineteenth of March. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm me.
Speaker 3: A Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today, it must be my birthday
Speaker 2: because a big new profile of Gwyneth Paltrow has dropped,
Speaker 2: and it tells us a lot about what it takes
Speaker 2: to be a female mogul, movie star, sex symbol, cultural icon.
Speaker 2: In twe twenty.
Speaker 3: You've manifested something in that story, which is.
Speaker 1: The content gods have delivered to us today.
Speaker 2: And all of that is very instructive for the rest
Speaker 2: of us mere mortals. So we're going to unpack that. Also,
Speaker 2: the new Snow White remake has everything half billion dollar budget,
Speaker 2: troll in, flaming casting decisions, apparently feuding co stars, a
Speaker 2: hot mess of a press tour except for an audience
Speaker 2: and teeth. How the White lotuses Amy lou wood is
Speaker 2: upending the rules about a Hollywood actress's face and mouth
Speaker 2: is meant to look like. But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: In case you missed it, NASA SpaceX astronauts Butch Wilmore
Speaker 3: and Sunny Williams have finally returned from the International Space
Speaker 3: Station after getting stuck.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that.
Speaker 3: I've been watching this story very closely because I needed
Speaker 3: them home and they've come home. So the pair was
Speaker 3: scheduled to have a week long mission, but technical issues
Speaker 3: you don't want their men's face, and delays with their
Speaker 3: ride home. That's the Boeing star Liner capsule meant they
Speaker 3: spent two hundred and eighty six days up there or
Speaker 3: nine months.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine you're going away for a week.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also like delays, it's like what was there
Speaker 1: like a space shuttle strike?
Speaker 3: So there were issues with the something about helium. I
Speaker 3: imagine here's how I imagined it.
Speaker 1: Details.
Speaker 3: The spaceship came had big holes in it, That's how
Speaker 3: I imagine it. And they went, couldn't get on, and
Speaker 3: that felt like not a good idea.
Speaker 2: We've seen Apolo thirteenth. They explained it to a kid,
Speaker 2: something broke on your daddy's ship.
Speaker 3: That's happened something and they didn't get on it. Good move, okay,
Speaker 3: other than probably not packing enough underwear. There's been a
Speaker 3: lot of talk about some issues that Wilmore and Williams
Speaker 3: have encountered. So in November of last year, images of Williams,
Speaker 3: in particular, she's the fifty nine year old female astronaut.
Speaker 3: You might have seen photos of her. They prompted widespread
Speaker 3: concern because she had lost a significant amount of weight,
Speaker 3: and the effects of space travel are known to be
Speaker 3: harsher on women. They lose muscle at a faster rate.
Speaker 3: So after two hundred and eighty six days in space,
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you what happen as to the
Speaker 3: human body, how they came back right, So, significant bone
Speaker 3: density loss, no matter how many weight, how much cottage,
Speaker 3: you know, she had to eat at least double the
Speaker 3: calories that like I don't know how you would get
Speaker 3: in as much food.
Speaker 2: And then two hours of it and it's not yummy food.
Speaker 2: It's not yemmy freeze dried space food.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, horrible.
Speaker 1: How do you even do exercise in space if there's
Speaker 1: no grad.
Speaker 3: It's like an exercise bike and you get on that
Speaker 3: for literally two hours and waited.
Speaker 1: You'd be fine.
Speaker 3: Temporary height increase by at least a few centimeters taller
Speaker 3: because the discs like because they don't have the gravitational push. Yeah,
Speaker 3: fluid shifts towards the head, meaning that you become really congested,
Speaker 3: so you can have a running nose, headache, lots of issues.
Speaker 3: And that also skin though probably yes, except for the
Speaker 3: gaunt because of all the weight we've lost and you
Speaker 3: come back with vision is skin.
Speaker 1: Car space, he'd probably run out, he'd run out of
Speaker 1: like she wouldn't need tempons, especially if you thought you
Speaker 1: were going for a week.
Speaker 3: Remember there was a woman who was going to space
Speaker 3: and they gave them one hundred tampons for a week
Speaker 3: long mission. I'm pretty sure she didn't even have a period.
Speaker 3: But what it exemplified was how science astronauts in space
Speaker 3: do not understand women and their periods. Loss of taste
Speaker 3: and smell, which is apparently a good thing because that
Speaker 3: capsule is not smelling good by the end, Increased cancer risk,
Speaker 3: increased likelihood of kidney stones due to dehydration. You come
Speaker 3: back very dizzy and fatigue.
Speaker 1: Sounds great sign me that here's.
Speaker 3: A good thing. You come back all your skin baby
Speaker 3: soft because nothing's rubbed against it, so you know, even
Speaker 3: your feet like shoes, and you like. You come back
Speaker 3: like a new.
Speaker 1: Yeah, skinny, sick with brit Or bones.
Speaker 3: And apparently a lot of the astronauts never get used
Speaker 3: to sleeping in space, so this can be the hardest thing,
Speaker 3: is a sleep deprivation. Nine months without a good night sleep.
Speaker 3: I've read somewhere that they sleep like bats upside down.
Speaker 2: Shut up the blood rushing to the head. That would
Speaker 2: make that worse. I don't understand space. Not all of
Speaker 2: this information has clearly been lost on me, But.
Speaker 1: So not go then. They a quite Paltrow profile cover
Speaker 1: story in fact dropped in Vanity Fair today, and there
Speaker 1: are so many morsels. She hasn't done a big interview
Speaker 1: like this for quite a long time, and there's many
Speaker 1: many parts to this interview. She spoke about Goop, being
Speaker 1: the CEO of Goop group's been around for I think
Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen years. She's still the CEO. She
Speaker 1: spoke about her divorce from Chris Martin and how they
Speaker 1: are this big, blended family along with her new husband
Speaker 1: Brad Felchuck, his ex wife, various children, girlfriend's partners. It
Speaker 1: was recorded just after the big wildfires in La so
Speaker 1: to set the scene, she had to flee her Hollywood home,
Speaker 1: which she has since sold, which was undamaging the fires
Speaker 1: in the end, but she had to go to her
Speaker 1: Montecito home, which you may remember is where Megan Markle
Speaker 1: and Oprah live. So that's I think an hour or
Speaker 1: so out of the heart of Hollywood. And while the
Speaker 1: interviewer was there, the removalists were bringing some of the
Speaker 1: furniture from her Hollywood home to the Monticito home, things
Speaker 1: like her pilates reformer. What were some of the other things.
Speaker 2: The cases of wine, her cases.
Speaker 1: Of wine, and she was what was she doing? She
Speaker 1: was talking to.
Speaker 2: The speaking to the crew in perfect Spanish. It said,
Speaker 2: the details in this are so good. The crew unloads
Speaker 2: at least one Pilartes reformer. Someone asks Paltrow's head of
Speaker 2: security where she wants the wine. Paltrow speaks to staff
Speaker 2: as influence Spanish, and then she nuzzles foul Chuck, who's
Speaker 2: appeared by the side door in a shawl collared sweater
Speaker 2: and shealing clogs. Gwyneth is also wearing shealing clogs.
Speaker 1: Everyone's wearing shaling sheepskin, and so it would be like
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, those birkenstocks.
Speaker 3: And clogs, but with sheepskin, it's like hair clog out
Speaker 3: a cloggug a clug A clug. Okay, clug.
Speaker 1: Yeah. She talks about both her children have since gone
Speaker 1: to college in the last sort of year or two,
Speaker 1: Apple and Moses, and she talks about how she doesn't
Speaker 1: like the term empty Nesta. She likes to call her
Speaker 1: and Brad freebirds.
Speaker 3: She loves a new term she loves a Rebra does well.
Speaker 1: Actually that was conscious uncoupling instead of divorce. She is
Speaker 1: and she's very self conscious about it. And this is
Speaker 1: what's really interesting, Like there are so many parts in
Speaker 1: this profile where you could say she's really tone deaf.
Speaker 1: That's kind of part of her charm and part of
Speaker 1: her brand.
Speaker 3: Can I ask you about two headlines that I've seen,
Speaker 3: and I want you to tell me if they're hyperbolic
Speaker 3: or what she actually said. So the first one is
Speaker 3: that she's commented on Megan Markle because of course there's
Speaker 3: been a bit of hullor Blue. Yeah, that Meghan Markle
Speaker 3: has copied the Gwyneth and Gwyneth was accused of copying
Speaker 3: the Martha Stewart. Yeah, what did she say about Megan?
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting is that Martha Stewart slammed Gwyneth when
Speaker 1: Grenneth started to do goop, and I suppose the interviewer
Speaker 1: was hoping that Gwyneth would then slam Meghan Markle. Now
Speaker 1: this was recorded before Meghan Michaels show would come out,
Speaker 1: But she said no, I haven't seen an early version
Speaker 1: of it. But she said, I don't know Meghan. She said,
Speaker 1: I've met her before and she seems perfectly nice, even
Speaker 1: though we live in Montecito along with Oprah. And at
Speaker 1: one point she looks at the window and says, Oh,
Speaker 1: what's that drone there for? And then she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that perhaps get three for the price of one. Me
Speaker 1: Harry and Meghan and Oprah when they come to Ontcito anyway,
Speaker 1: she's completely nondescript. She says, I wish it well. I
Speaker 1: believe that everybody should be able to do what they're
Speaker 1: interested in.
Speaker 2: She says that she has a strong instinct to stand
Speaker 2: up for women in the culture, and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of noise around them, which.
Speaker 3: I could understand relate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very upset to think though, that they're
Speaker 2: not hanging out all the time. She did make it
Speaker 2: prep about how she'd like to try and take a
Speaker 2: pie up there if she could get through security.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: One of its friends with Oprah, and Oprah is friends
Speaker 3: with Meghan, and I'm just surprised.
Speaker 1: Friends with Megan anyway. It's interesting because there's a couple
Speaker 1: of bits that jumped out to me. One was when
Speaker 1: she talks about her business because in the last year,
Speaker 1: I've had to lay off quite a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: They laid off about eighteen percent of their stuff, which
Speaker 1: is about forty people, and then they laid off another
Speaker 1: twelve shortly after that. And she spoke carefully when she
Speaker 1: was asked about this, because the press around it was
Speaker 1: that Goop was doing very badly and this is why
Speaker 1: they had to lay people off, And she said that's
Speaker 1: actually not true. We needed to improve our ebitdar. Now
Speaker 1: ebitda is.
Speaker 3: So many acronyms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she very not self consciously, but kind of naturally,
Speaker 1: I guess put on her CEO hadn't started speaking in
Speaker 1: business words. So she basically said, we'd become bloated. We'd
Speaker 1: hired too many people, we were doing too many things,
Speaker 1: that had a multiple podcasts, that had a Netflix show,
Speaker 1: they were doing cruisers, they did all these different things.
Speaker 1: And she said, we'd become bloated, which is something that
Speaker 1: happens to many businesses, and we just had to right
Speaker 1: size ourself to be more profitable.
Speaker 2: I think all that sounded very convinced totally, though. I
Speaker 2: really like the bit sorry where she says, because we
Speaker 2: all talked about this is how few years ago Goop
Speaker 2: just became like a sex toy shop.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It was just nearly all expensive vibrators and lots of
Speaker 2: sexual wellness and very famously the candle that smells like
Speaker 2: my vagina and all that and in here she says,
Speaker 2: and it's absolutely right because I am one of these people,
Speaker 2: she said, the people who come to buy like a
Speaker 2: gag gift for their friend, like I have wanted to
Speaker 2: buy and my cannel smells like my vagina gift for everyone,
Speaker 2: or a vibrator from Goop. Are not the same people
Speaker 2: who are going to come back and buy more things.
Speaker 2: And that's by like.
Speaker 1: A cashmere throw for a thousand dollar serums and stuff.
Speaker 3: But I don't think that's the only reason why she's
Speaker 3: discontinued some of those products. So she did go very
Speaker 3: heavy on the vagina for a while, and there was
Speaker 3: the Yoni eggs and the.
Speaker 1: Jade eggs, and there was a court case.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I think that's an important footnote that
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen the company agreed food of.
Speaker 1: It's a vage note. Really it's a.
Speaker 3: Bad Yeah, exactly right, a vage note. There was a
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty five thousand dollars settlement because they
Speaker 3: made unsubstantiated medical claims.
Speaker 1: That that's not a big deal in the scheme of dollars.
Speaker 3: You don't want to have consumer protection complaints against you.
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting, and this is kind of at the
Speaker 1: heart of what a lot of the commentary is about.
Speaker 1: With this piece, she says that she's very much an
Speaker 1: early adopter and that she makes way in the culture
Speaker 1: for things to become mainstream. So she said this before
Speaker 1: about yoga, which a lot of people were very critical
Speaker 1: of because she didn't invent it. She talked about, well,
Speaker 1: how she did that with wellness or meditation or all
Speaker 1: the things that she was doing. And she's not wrong
Speaker 1: about that, because when Goop was talking about wellness and
Speaker 1: even things like conscious uncoupling, and she talks about exploring
Speaker 1: alternate modalities, which is basically the gateway to other people say, oh,
Speaker 1: we're just asking questions, and people are saying the Make
Speaker 1: America Healthy Again movement spearheaded by RFK Jr. Who has
Speaker 1: some very strong beliefs, anti mainstream, anti science beliefs that
Speaker 1: almost like the more hardcore, more trump version of what
Speaker 1: Winner's been doing for a long time. And she doesn't
Speaker 1: really dispute that she talks about liking raw milk, that
Speaker 1: people have lost faith in institutions.
Speaker 2: But that's all true, right, He's one hundred percent right,
Speaker 2: And like there are lots that we've discussed this before
Speaker 2: on the show, there are lots and lots of women
Speaker 2: who believe in traditional medicine and supplementary medicine and alternative
Speaker 2: modalities and all these things. And she is not wrong,
Speaker 2: Like when she makes a point in here about raw
Speaker 2: milk and she's like, there could be dangers to raw milk,
Speaker 2: but are we expecting that the dairy industry are going
Speaker 2: to be the ones who are gonna spearhead that she's right?
Speaker 2: Like this is why people have lost trust in institutions.
Speaker 2: The thing is about this is if you listen to
Speaker 2: this show, you know that I have a big soft
Speaker 2: spot for Gwyneth And it's not because I love her.
Speaker 2: I just find her fascinating. And this interview articulated why.
Speaker 2: Because if you're a woman, if you're a gen X woman,
Speaker 2: she has been around for a very long time. And
Speaker 2: one of my Roman empires is that I think about
Speaker 2: her ears all the time, right, Like there was the
Speaker 2: dating Brad pitt eras, there was the smoking ciggies with
Speaker 2: Winona Ryder. She was a skinny girl. She was the
Speaker 2: first person I ever heard talk about having a macrobiotic
Speaker 2: diet and everyone's like, what's that? And then everyone was doing.
Speaker 1: She was out when everyone else was running.
Speaker 2: Then she had her era when she moved to London
Speaker 2: and became a housewife and started blogging about bread and
Speaker 2: then she was in Marvel and like fix you by
Speaker 2: coldplayers about her, like she is a person in the
Speaker 2: culture who looms very large, and if you are a
Speaker 2: woman in the culture who looms large, you are always
Speaker 2: going to attract an enormous amount of shit. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying for a minute that she doesn't deserve some
Speaker 2: of that, because what she's trying to sell everybody is
Speaker 2: unquestionably a very very privileged, pretty white lady version of aspiration.
Speaker 1: She's the original influence.
Speaker 2: She is in many ways, but I think there's also
Speaker 2: a lot to be respected there. I admire the fact
Speaker 2: that she's never run away from it all, like the
Speaker 2: shit that she has copped over the years, and the
Speaker 2: abuse and the round mocking, She's turned a lot of
Speaker 2: it to her advantage, which I kind of admire. Also,
Speaker 2: she gives a good interview. She's usually quite honest. Like
Speaker 2: so Michelle Rue is in her house in Montecito, and
Speaker 2: who wouldn't want to go to Gwyneth Pultro's house in
Speaker 2: Montecito describes immediately what she's wearing, a Gray's cardigan, white
Speaker 2: wide leg jeans and her shiling like clocks. And the
Speaker 2: first thing you do is you go, oh, I've got.
Speaker 1: White, white leg jeans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, every woman in the world is deciding whether she
Speaker 2: has any of those things. Then they were the journalist
Speaker 2: describes what kind of milk she puts in her coffee,
Speaker 2: because everybody wants to know what kind of milk Gwyneth
Speaker 2: Paltrow puts in a coffee, either because they want to
Speaker 2: copy her or they want to take.
Speaker 1: The piss out of her for it.
Speaker 2: So there's a level of fascination that I just love
Speaker 2: to lean into.
Speaker 3: I read another headline that referred to the slight Gwyneth
Speaker 3: Paltrow made against Blake Lively in this Yeah, in this profile,
Speaker 3: that's that's an I read the entire profile. Couldn't find
Speaker 3: the slight. This is where they've tried to up a
Speaker 3: bit of tension on the discussion of intimacy coordinators, which
Speaker 3: is big in Hollywood at the moment because in the
Speaker 3: Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Since Me Too, they've been intimacy couaday.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is, but it's the geist because Lively said
Speaker 3: we didn't have one and we should have had one,
Speaker 3: and everyone has one.
Speaker 1: And they choreographed sex scenes and.
Speaker 3: Gwyneth Paltrow in talking about her new film, which is
Speaker 3: excuse my French, but Hollywayen Writ's Wet Dream, which is
Speaker 3: Gwyneth Paltrow with a very young Timothy Schallamey. She says
Speaker 3: they were offered an intimacy coordinator, and she basically went,
Speaker 3: what the hell this is interrupting my process? And I
Speaker 3: read that and went, oh, yeah, well power to you.
Speaker 3: I like the idea that you're offered it, but I
Speaker 3: don't think that it's mandatory that you use it. If
Speaker 3: you feel like it's consensual and comfortable and you know
Speaker 3: what your job is. But she has been roundly criticized
Speaker 3: even since last morning.
Speaker 1: It did come across, and of course her process is
Speaker 1: a process, but it did come across a little bit
Speaker 1: like you're a pussy if you need one.
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Because then she had a line
Speaker 3: clarifying it about being someone who was maybe just entering
Speaker 3: the industry or being a little bit younger. It's interesting
Speaker 3: to consider whether her and Timothy sit together and decide
Speaker 3: whether you have an intimacy coord They did.
Speaker 1: She said, we talked about it. She is funny about that,
Speaker 1: because Okay, first of all, why is she doing this profile? Yep,
Speaker 1: we should cover that off. The reason is, there's two reasons.
Speaker 1: The first is she's starting acting again. I think it's
Speaker 1: two reasons. I mean her. Brad Falchuk gives a quote
Speaker 1: and says, Gwyneth is a supermum with absolutely no irony.
Speaker 1: Gwyneth is a supermam. Her mum's stuff and this is
Speaker 1: very and she loved so much. She was so fulfilled
Speaker 1: when the kids were growing up, and she didn't want
Speaker 1: to travel and she wanted to be at home with them,
Speaker 1: which is fair enough. But now that they've left, she's
Speaker 1: feeling herself again. She's exploring. She's a free bird. She's
Speaker 1: getting back to acting. So after fifteen years, she's done
Speaker 1: a couple of little things, but she's getting back to acting.
Speaker 1: In her first leading role after that is this movie
Speaker 1: where you won't believe this. She plays an older woman
Speaker 1: having an affair with the younger man. He's a ping
Speaker 1: pong player and he's Timothy Chalamey, and she's quite funny.
Speaker 1: She says, look, I'm one hundred and nine and you're fourteen. Okay,
Speaker 1: I know she's quite funny. And when photos of them
Speaker 1: on the set appeared a few months ago, people speculated
Speaker 1: that she was playing his mother. And that's interesting too
Speaker 1: because the interviewer also says, unlike a lot of her
Speaker 1: contemporaries in Hollywood, she has not filled her lips or
Speaker 1: her lines on her face. And that's true when you
Speaker 1: see her. She's a spokesperson for a type of botox,
Speaker 1: but she natural. Yeah, she's not shy about the fact
Speaker 1: that she does tweatments, but she does not look overfilled
Speaker 1: like her contemporaries. Right. So the first reason is to
Speaker 1: announce her return to acting, but I think that was
Speaker 1: more just a hook. The real reason she's done it
Speaker 1: is because she's been trying to sell group for quite
Speaker 1: a while and all the bad publicity around them right
Speaker 1: sizing and having to sack people. And she also did
Speaker 1: a diffusion line called Good Clean Goop in Target that
Speaker 1: was a disaster, and there was a lot of negative
Speaker 1: press about her business. So she really needed to re
Speaker 1: establish that her business was actually successful. And I also
Speaker 1: think she's working probably because she's a free bird, but
Speaker 1: I also got the sense probably needs a bit of
Speaker 1: revenue into the company there is that's fine, So that's
Speaker 1: why she's doing the.
Speaker 2: Time that she sounds the most cranky because, as I said, before.
Speaker 2: She's weathered a lot of that criticism, and she always
Speaker 2: says that's what you get when you're a trailblazer and
Speaker 2: blah blah. But there is a bit where she kind
Speaker 2: of says, but when it affects your bottom line, it's
Speaker 2: not funny anymore, which kind of makes it sound like
Speaker 2: that some of that criticism really has been affecting the
Speaker 2: bottom line.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would have been, because it's very bad for brand,
Speaker 1: and there would have been investors. I think the smartest
Speaker 1: thing to do if she wants to sell the company
Speaker 1: is to a point of CEO that's not her well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because she talks in this and I was thinking about,
Speaker 2: you may because she talks about I'm the kind of
Speaker 2: CEO who or the journalist says, likes to be on slack,
Speaker 2: likes to be involved, but I don't like Excel spreadsheets.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I've heard this story. My smart
Speaker 2: friend Mia went, you know what, Yeah, the CEO does.
Speaker 2: There's a lot that's very mid about this interview, right, Gwinneth,
Speaker 2: if you ever feel like coming on, because she's all
Speaker 2: about moving into her next phase. I'm in raging Perry menopause.
Speaker 2: I'm doing something new, and that's what all women this
Speaker 2: age are like. It's like hilarious how she is the
Speaker 2: most rarefied and the most basic at.
Speaker 1: The same time.
Speaker 3: And she's also following in the footsteps, she says of
Speaker 3: a Cameron Diaz.
Speaker 1: Except you're just basic. But I haven't gone shilling clog.
Speaker 3: That she talks about how she's following in the footsteps
Speaker 3: of a Cameron Diaz and a Demi Moore who did
Speaker 3: step away for a little while and then came back
Speaker 3: a going I've had so much more experience. I think
Speaker 3: I'm actually going to be better at my craft.
Speaker 2: And she was a very good actress, she actually and
Speaker 2: so there'll be high stakes Christmas Day everybody. By the way,
Speaker 2: the movie that's a long wait out loud as in
Speaker 2: a moment, how a feel good family remake has become
Speaker 2: a cultural hot potato. We are talking about snow White.
Speaker 4: This was my father's kingdom, a place of fairness, but
Speaker 4: the queen changed everything.
Speaker 1: Take him away, your majesty, What did you.
Speaker 4: Say The people need some kindness in a I really
Speaker 4: don't remember you being this opinion needed, Let's make a
Speaker 4: live action snow White must have seemed like a no brainer.
Speaker 4: For Disney back in twenty and sixty whatever could go wrong.
Speaker 1: I know when the film.
Speaker 2: That's being released here tomorrow was conceived. After all, there
Speaker 2: had already been a live action Cinderella, a live action
Speaker 2: Beauty and the Beast, a live action Little Mermaid, a
Speaker 2: live action Lionking, and realize, live action mean it means
Speaker 2: not a cartoon, so real life princesses. They would have
Speaker 2: thought it even more fun than cartoon ones. They can
Speaker 2: go out there and wear red carpet dresses and do
Speaker 2: interviews and walk and talk.
Speaker 3: The peceptis, Oh, how the world.
Speaker 2: Can spire to prove them wrong? Very quick rundown. If
Speaker 2: you've been seeing headlines around about snow white and most
Speaker 2: controversial ever, Da da da da da, I'm gonna give
Speaker 2: you a quick rundown of the controversies so that you
Speaker 2: know plural plural definitely.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 2: First of all, movie production was meant to start in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. It was delayed by COVID very understandably, but
Speaker 2: the casting finally gets announced in twenty twenty one and
Speaker 2: immediately starts fires in some corners.
Speaker 1: Of the internet.
Speaker 2: Rachel Zegler, you might know her from West Side Story.
Speaker 2: She's an amazing singer. She's a teeny tiny little actress,
Speaker 2: really good actress was cast in the lead. The thing
Speaker 2: is snow White, which let's remember the cartoon version was
Speaker 2: made in nineteen thirty seven. Snow White is the fairest
Speaker 2: of them all, with skin as white as snow. It's
Speaker 2: literally where she got her name. And Zegler, who does
Speaker 2: look a lot like a Disney princess, to be honest,
Speaker 2: is of Colombian descent. So that was the start of
Speaker 2: the Disney's Gone woke drums, right.
Speaker 1: So there was some pushback around that time, wasn't there
Speaker 1: about oh, why have they gone woke? Why have they cast?
Speaker 1: And there was a similar pushback around when they cast
Speaker 1: Hallie Bailey as the Little Mermaid, and she is an
Speaker 1: actress of color as well, and there was a lot
Speaker 1: of pushback about our Disney so wake when they're just
Speaker 1: trying to do you.
Speaker 2: Want cartoon princesses to look like the cartoon princesses, is
Speaker 2: what people say. Then Peter Dinklich, who's probably the most
Speaker 2: high profile actor of short stature in the world thanks
Speaker 2: to Game of Thrones among other things, publicly questioned the
Speaker 2: whole premise of bringing back a movie about seven dwarves.
Speaker 2: This is him speaking about that on Mark Maron's podcast.
Speaker 6: This is what he says, Well, you know, it's really
Speaker 6: progressive to cast literally no offense to anything. But I
Speaker 6: was little taken back by the they're very proud to
Speaker 6: cast a Latino actress as snow white. Yeah, but you're
Speaker 6: still telling the story seven dwarfs. Sure take a step
Speaker 6: back and look at what you're doing there. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 6: I think it makes no sense to me, So what
Speaker 6: would be You're progressive in one way and then but
Speaker 6: you're still making that fucking backward oh story about seven
Speaker 6: dwarves living in a cave. To get what the fuck
Speaker 6: are you doing?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: Have I have I done nothing to advance the cause
Speaker 6: from my soapbox? I guess I'm not loud enough. I
Speaker 6: don't know what. I don't know what studio that is,
Speaker 6: but it was. They were so proud of that, and
Speaker 6: all love and respect to that, to the actress and
Speaker 6: to the people who thought they were doing the right thing.
Speaker 6: But I'm just like, you don't what.
Speaker 1: Are you doing?
Speaker 2: The seven Dwarfs in the final film and now cgi
Speaker 2: magical creatures who are still called sneezy and dopey, and
Speaker 2: they look just like really the Seven Dwarfs.
Speaker 1: They're not referred to as dwarfs.
Speaker 2: No, and Disney said they did that to avoid in
Speaker 2: quotes reinforcing stereotypes.
Speaker 1: So I heard that. Then some act with dwarfism pushed
Speaker 1: back on Peter Dinklige and said, hey, there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of roles for us in Hollywood. Glad that you've
Speaker 1: got all of them. That's seven roles that we could
Speaker 1: have got that now aren't available to us because you've
Speaker 1: scared everybody off.
Speaker 3: I think that the choice was unpopular in some circles
Speaker 3: to then do the CGI, because then they're voiced by people,
Speaker 3: but the people who are voicing it are not necessarily
Speaker 3: people of small stature, so that can be seen as ablest.
Speaker 3: I think they were between a rock and a hard
Speaker 3: place with that decision. It was a really, really hard one.
Speaker 3: But when ableism is entrenched in the actual fabric of
Speaker 3: the story, that's something you're gonna have to deal with
Speaker 3: head on.
Speaker 2: So that was another one, yeah, of the controversies.
Speaker 1: Then I haven't even started making a movie again.
Speaker 2: Then a conflict erupted in the Middle East. Nothing to
Speaker 2: do with a cute fairy tale movie. You might imagine
Speaker 2: wrong because the evil queen in this movie is being
Speaker 2: played by wonder woman Galgadot, who famously served in the
Speaker 2: Israeli Defense Force. Her coastar Zegler, publicly declared her sympathy
Speaker 2: for Palestine on social media. So now the two leads
Speaker 2: are on opposite sides of the most divisive conflict on
Speaker 2: the plan.
Speaker 3: And you've got Getot speaking publicly. Yeah, they're both quite
Speaker 3: active on social media. Yeah they are. And it's probably
Speaker 3: important to clarify to that military service in Israel is
Speaker 3: mandatory for almost all people. But she's speaking really openly
Speaker 3: about free the hostages.
Speaker 2: And she made public speeches, yes.
Speaker 1: Exactly, And imagine Disney at this point. I know then
Speaker 1: are their agents.
Speaker 2: Then Zekler made a comment about how the original plotline
Speaker 2: about the handsome prince who awakes snow white with a
Speaker 2: kiss was a bit off, and suggested that she was
Speaker 2: involved in an update. This is what she said.
Speaker 5: The original cartoon came out in nineteen thirty seven, and
Speaker 5: very evidently so there is a big focus on her
Speaker 5: love story.
Speaker 3: With a guy who literally stalks her.
Speaker 5: Weird, weird, so we didn't do that this time.
Speaker 3: So no prince or a different kind of prince.
Speaker 5: We have a different approach to what I'm sure a
Speaker 5: lot of people will assume is a love story just
Speaker 5: because like we cast a guy in the movie and
Speaker 5: jaw burna. It's really not about the love story at all,
Speaker 5: which is really really wonderful, and whether or not she
Speaker 5: finds love along the way is anybody's guess until twenty
Speaker 5: twenty four. It's an inner journey that she goes on
Speaker 5: to find her true self and she meets a lot
Speaker 5: of people along the way that make the journey really incredible.
Speaker 2: That really pissed off a lot of the Disney's Gone
Speaker 2: Woke gang. We didn't like it.
Speaker 3: Disney fans love a love story.
Speaker 1: Like what she said, It's almost like that is what
Speaker 1: every actress who plays a Disney princess in modern times
Speaker 1: has to contend with the idea that, oh, but isn't
Speaker 1: it all just about a handsome prince comes along? And
Speaker 1: so I feel that fairytales have evolved, or the portrayal
Speaker 1: of them have evolved, and they should evolve.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But there's a dance to be done. There
Speaker 3: is a dance with any sort of remake where what
Speaker 3: you're trying to do is capture the audience who loves
Speaker 3: the original and find a new audience in the modern moment.
Speaker 3: So imagine if with Bridget Joanes rene Zelwega just came
Speaker 3: out and trashed the original and was like, yeah, that
Speaker 3: was really fat, phobic and regressive, she would have lost
Speaker 3: a portion of the audience. So I think that there
Speaker 3: is a real careful dance of just like I respect
Speaker 3: the other. There are a few updates that we've You're right.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that you have to
Speaker 2: bear in mind all the time, because we've got one
Speaker 2: more of these controversies, is that Zegler is twenty three. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Then when Trump won the twenty twenty four election, Zegler again,
Speaker 2: she's twenty three. Not that I'm editorializing.
Speaker 1: Posted about it.
Speaker 2: She posted, may Trump supporters and Trump voters and Trump
Speaker 2: himself never no peace, fuck Donald Trump. Now the thing
Speaker 2: is those people are now in charge, she may have noticed,
Speaker 2: and they have been primed and ready to attack this
Speaker 2: massive Disney property on all fronts. Now it's in cinemas,
Speaker 2: but everything about the launch has been scaled back. No
Speaker 2: non Disney approved lists were allowed at the La Red
Speaker 2: carpet premiere, it was mostly influences. It was held in
Speaker 2: the middle of the day. Now, Goodott and Zegler did
Speaker 2: post together, then it's not like they're scrapping publicly or anything.
Speaker 2: They did post together, and they did present at the
Speaker 2: Oscars together. But now anytime that anywhere near each other all,
Speaker 2: anyone's looking for the signs of tension. So generally Disney
Speaker 2: is sending them off separately to do separate things. So
Speaker 2: good Dot was sent to one of the Disney parks
Speaker 2: to post with lots of little girls, and Zegler was
Speaker 2: sent to Spain to sing to lots of little girls,
Speaker 2: and the movie.
Speaker 1: Was taken away.
Speaker 3: Let's remember, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine the conversations with the publicists, and the
Speaker 2: movie that cost half a billion US dollars all up
Speaker 2: with production and promotion, is now projected to make a
Speaker 2: tiny fraction of that the domestic box office, even though
Speaker 2: the people who've actually seen it say it's pretty good.
Speaker 3: What are we I have a few theories about what's
Speaker 3: going on here. When you are an actor like Galga
Speaker 3: Dot or Zegla, you have your own personal brand, and
Speaker 3: personal brand is becoming increasingly important. And for Zeglar, that
Speaker 3: brand is about feminism, it is about human rights, It
Speaker 3: is about being outspoken and progressive.
Speaker 1: So is Galgatotts ironically, yes, yeah it is.
Speaker 3: It is, but Zegler has been in different ways. She's
Speaker 3: been more outspoken on social and with the Trump comment,
Speaker 3: what I think is difficult is when that brand comes
Speaker 3: in conflict with a bigger brand. I remember us talking
Speaker 3: about something years ago that was like a brand can't
Speaker 3: exist within a brand, And I think this is the
Speaker 3: issue with press tours, is that the point of a
Speaker 3: press tour is that we are promoting Snow White the
Speaker 3: Disney Show, where the ven diagram of Trump fans and
Speaker 3: Disney fans there is overlap. Therefore, we do not upset
Speaker 3: Trump supporters.
Speaker 1: Well, you don't want to say you don't want to
Speaker 1: upset anyone, No, exactly. And also, can't we just go
Speaker 1: to our Disney film and just the news cycle behind us,
Speaker 1: which is what everyone wants?
Speaker 2: Yet which you can. And lots of people are saying
Speaker 2: that this movie will probably be successful anyway because and
Speaker 2: as someone who's you know, my kids are older now,
Speaker 2: but parents love a family movie. They will take their
Speaker 2: kids to this regardless because they don't care about culture wars.
Speaker 2: But you're so right that the comments by Ziegler in particular,
Speaker 2: particularly the Trump ones, have given a lot of people
Speaker 2: a reason not to go yes.
Speaker 3: And I think that when the audience, like the Snow White,
Speaker 3: we are launching a movie publicity meeting, in terms of
Speaker 3: our talking points are not at all what the talking
Speaker 3: points of the two lead actors would be. And I
Speaker 3: think that this is where presstours are going wrong. I
Speaker 3: also think the lead up is too long and people
Speaker 3: say too much shit. You give people enough airtime and
Speaker 3: it's like they've been talking about this for years, and
Speaker 3: everything they say then reflects on the movie. The film
Speaker 3: has also been canceled from the left and the right,
Speaker 3: which is a terrific feat.
Speaker 1: I guess it shows that it's balanced.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's polarized everyone from every walk of life, and
Speaker 3: it has also come at a moment. I think that
Speaker 3: this is probably the perfect storm of rolled back DEI
Speaker 3: of a moment in American popular culture where racism is
Speaker 3: rearing its ugly head again in quite an explicit way,
Speaker 3: like it's always existed. But I think that to have
Speaker 3: a snow White that's a person of color just touches
Speaker 3: the buttons of people who feel like they have license
Speaker 3: again to be outrageously racist.
Speaker 1: Isn't it sad that inclusivity, which is such a great thing,
Speaker 1: and all the little girls who can't be what they
Speaker 1: can't see and such a positive thing I think for
Speaker 1: the world, has been weaponized and called woke as if
Speaker 1: it's an insult, as if it's a terrible thing. And
Speaker 1: the word anti woke, which can sometimes b euphemism for
Speaker 1: being cruel or racist or intolerant of others or I'm
Speaker 1: thinking and unkind. That's become a badge that some people
Speaker 1: like to wear. And I wanted to ask you, Jesse,
Speaker 1: do you think you know once upon a time, Rene
Speaker 1: Zellweger could walk a red carpet, Julia Roberts could walk
Speaker 1: a red carpet, Cameron Diaz could walk a red carpet
Speaker 1: and they would not be asked their opinion on cultural issues.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's possible now, in the age of
Speaker 1: social media, for anyone to do that?
Speaker 3: This is what I mean about brand as I was
Speaker 3: thinking about sort of a Julia robertson notting Hill. We
Speaker 3: don't know what she stood for don't stand for anything.
Speaker 3: Don't she just was she stood for notting Hill. That
Speaker 3: was the she.
Speaker 1: Had Harry under Ams the one time has a big
Speaker 1: deal an accident.
Speaker 2: I think we're about to see that coming back. And
Speaker 2: your point you just made me, which is absolutely spot
Speaker 2: on about inclusive casting, has probably had its day for
Speaker 2: a while, which is depressing as all hell, right, because
Speaker 2: there's no question that Rachel's egglers looking great. There's snow white,
Speaker 2: everybody is saying, and she looks a lot like her anyway.
Speaker 2: But I think that we are about to see it
Speaker 2: coming back because after the massive backlash on Hollywood stars
Speaker 2: who were almost unilaterally supporting progressive causes and have had
Speaker 2: no impact whatsoever on any of the election results or
Speaker 2: any of those things, the intense risk on these movies,
Speaker 2: which are so expensive to make, I think that we're
Speaker 2: going to go back to a very ad nine like
Speaker 2: don't ask me anything.
Speaker 3: I also policy think that this is a very public
Speaker 3: example of something that is happening within the arts, which
Speaker 3: is a real division, especially with what's happening in the
Speaker 3: Middle East, between these these two camps who are clashing
Speaker 3: and feeling threatened and feeling undermined and This is the
Speaker 3: thing about diversity, right. You can go, oh, we want
Speaker 3: people to look different, but diversity also means that people
Speaker 3: are going to show up with different opinions. And I
Speaker 3: thought that, you know, seeing them at the Oscars standing there,
Speaker 3: they've both behaved very of.
Speaker 2: Course, to be clear, they have not like said anything
Speaker 2: about each other or been you know, verbally or otherwise
Speaker 2: unching on about any issues. It's all been projected on them.
Speaker 2: It's really complicated, but I predict it will be a
Speaker 2: big hit, if not in theaters and streaming, because family
Speaker 2: movies are the bread and butter. Like Bluey I Think,
Speaker 2: which obviously is an Australian property, is one of Disney
Speaker 2: Plus's most successful properties.
Speaker 1: Full Stop.
Speaker 2: Parents want things to watch with their kids. They don't
Speaker 2: care about all this stuff.
Speaker 3: Feedback is a gift from both the perspective of a
Speaker 3: giver as well as the recipient.
Speaker 1: There's a homeowner who has some feedback and they've been
Speaker 1: in the news this week because their house was open
Speaker 1: for inspection and they have a sign on the toilet
Speaker 1: that has gone viral and it says, please don't use
Speaker 1: this toilet. Thank you. People are apparently taking a break
Speaker 1: from inspecting homes to use the toilet. Real estate agents
Speaker 1: aren't happy. They've said people come to inspections and use
Speaker 1: the toilet. I find it gross. A lot of the
Speaker 1: time people that come to use the toilet aren't even
Speaker 1: there to inspect the property. Oh my god, thought of that.
Speaker 1: Busting to go to the loo when you're walking down
Speaker 1: the street. Just pop into an open for inspection. People
Speaker 1: don't do that. And this real estate agent that's quoted
Speaker 1: in the article says it's like coming to our house
Speaker 1: inspection and using the microwave to heat up food if
Speaker 1: that food was pooh. I added that last.
Speaker 3: I can't believe have you had people do this.
Speaker 1: I've done it, not a pooh, but I've done wheeze
Speaker 1: in it in an open people walking through.
Speaker 3: I don't know what open inspectors you're going to, but
Speaker 3: for me, there are three hundred people elbowing each other
Speaker 3: out of the way.
Speaker 1: It is a it's got to be a quiet one.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a quiet to be. It can't
Speaker 1: be like a studio apartment.
Speaker 3: I would not and be like, I want to see
Speaker 3: the shower.
Speaker 2: This has happened in my world. One of my children
Speaker 2: did this. We were looking at an open house when
Speaker 2: we were when we moved, and I'd lost one of
Speaker 2: my children from because they had to come because who
Speaker 2: was going to look after them? And I was like,
Speaker 2: where have they gone? Where they're gone? Indeed, they were
Speaker 2: in the bathroom. The door was not locked and they
Speaker 2: were using it for a number two. Oh. I thought
Speaker 2: that was mortifying enough until our producer Ruth told us
Speaker 2: that that also happened to her when our kids were
Speaker 2: a little except that that toilet was not even connected
Speaker 2: to the plumbing.
Speaker 3: Okay, so this used to be. I remember going and
Speaker 3: looking at and remember display homes. I remembering looking when
Speaker 3: I was a kid at at display homes with Mum,
Speaker 3: and I definitely considered using one of those toilets. But
Speaker 3: you look down and it's like concrete or some like.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not plugged in at all. I don't
Speaker 3: know how you rectify that situation.
Speaker 1: After the break, there's a surprising new beauty standard that's
Speaker 1: crept in by Stealth, and no one has been talking
Speaker 1: about until now.
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers follow the
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 3: ears five days a week, and a huge thank you
Speaker 3: to all our current.
Speaker 1: You released a bunch of venomous snakes today. You do
Speaker 1: realize that you're fucking deranged.
Speaker 3: We need to talk about teeth. For weeks, viewers of
Speaker 3: The White Lotus have been marveling at Amy lou Wood's teeth.
Speaker 3: There's a photo on our instagram if you like to see.
Speaker 3: If you've not been.
Speaker 2: Watched bunny teeth.
Speaker 1: They're calling them.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, Kerry Sackville is calling it bunny teeth for
Speaker 3: the Sydney Morning Herald. But they are so unlike what
Speaker 3: we normally see on television that they were actually acknowledged
Speaker 3: on screen. Her friend Chloe remarked, I love your teeth
Speaker 3: the character. Yes, yes, they are front and center. So
Speaker 3: Kerry Sackville wrote that these bunny teeth give her hope.
Speaker 3: She argues that quirky female faces are almost exclusively on
Speaker 3: character actors who play supporting roles. If we ever see them,
Speaker 3: they're supporting roles. But what's exciting is that not only
Speaker 3: is would a lead, but she's a trophy girlfriend of
Speaker 3: an old demand. She is positioned as desirable and attractive.
Speaker 3: Vanity Fair called her teeth not just charming but inspiring,
Speaker 3: and would herself have spoken about how her teeth were
Speaker 3: a source of great insecurity. Growing up, she was bullied
Speaker 3: for them. She didn't believe she'd ever be able to
Speaker 3: work in television, and now she finds her smile empowering
Speaker 3: and rebellious, although she says she'll never be able to
Speaker 3: play an American. She said Americans do not have teeth
Speaker 3: like hers. Holly, do you think that's true?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent truth. Amy is from where I'm from. Friend,
Speaker 2: She is from Stockport, which is very close to Manchester,
Speaker 2: so she is obviously a legend of all kinds. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's gorgeous. See that's one of the things we weren't
Speaker 2: saying about this, is like she's got unusual teeth, but
Speaker 2: she's absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, but it is one hundred cent
Speaker 2: tru she couldn't play an American. You're probably not that
Speaker 2: familiar with English TV, but when I was growing up
Speaker 2: and you're watching, the biggest shows in Britain were the
Speaker 2: soap operas EastEnders.
Speaker 3: Watch Bill, there you go.
Speaker 2: Nobody has perfect white teeth, but there are no shows
Speaker 2: on American television where people do not have perfect white teeth.
Speaker 1: Do you know why that is?
Speaker 2: Well, the stereotype is that British people have bad dental care.
Speaker 2: It's not actually true. If you dig into the research,
Speaker 2: they have quite good dental care.
Speaker 1: They have fluorid in the water.
Speaker 2: I think that some places do and some places don't.
Speaker 2: But going to the dentist in Britain is subsidized for
Speaker 2: kids and things like that. But there is just a
Speaker 2: very different culture of everybody getting their teeth sorted out.
Speaker 1: So is it a marker of status? But even yeah,
Speaker 1: rich people have nice teeth, but I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of posh people that actually don't.
Speaker 2: I know that would also be a mark. That would
Speaker 2: also be a mark of rebellion, because there's also a
Speaker 2: little well not rebellion. But you see, the thing is
Speaker 2: I snorted when somebody said that her teeth were like,
Speaker 2: her teeth are inspiring, Like it's ridiculous, the idea that
Speaker 2: normal face with normal features and like, what's the word?
Speaker 2: No one has intervened on those teeth, that's the only thing, right,
Speaker 2: So teeth that have not had intervention are like brave
Speaker 2: and inspiring gandicity to me, I.
Speaker 3: Think We've got to acknowledge though, that it is subversive
Speaker 3: because her teeth my teeth without years of work. And
Speaker 3: I got probably two years of dental work, and I
Speaker 3: remember my mum sitting with the orthodontist and trying to
Speaker 3: untangle what was cosmetic and what was truly necessary, which
Speaker 3: has become increasingly blurry.
Speaker 2: Because also we have to be clear, dental work is
Speaker 2: so expensive. It is a marker of status, because yeah,
Speaker 2: not everybody has like ten thousand dollars to be thrown
Speaker 2: away on their kids' teeth just so that they have
Speaker 2: the teeth that everyone has on TV.
Speaker 3: Yes, but I think that the orthodontic thing, like yes,
Speaker 3: as that. But there's also the reason that people get braces,
Speaker 3: and the reason that people get work done is often
Speaker 3: too for like health reasons, like for jaw pain and
Speaker 3: for being able to clean it. Like I still have
Speaker 3: crowding that makes flossing and everything difficult. But to see
Speaker 3: what my teeth looked like and I got dental it'd
Speaker 3: probably started when I was about twelve, and I did
Speaker 3: the retainers and stuff. I remember being please self conscious
Speaker 3: about the gap between my teeth as a kid. I
Speaker 3: remember people would say to me, but Madonna has a gap,
Speaker 3: and that was their way of making me feel better
Speaker 3: about the fact that my teeth looked different. But I've
Speaker 3: even felt it as an adult on television when you
Speaker 3: look around and you go, I'm the only one without veneers,
Speaker 3: and there's a look on television of the big.
Speaker 1: White twiglet teeth, tee teeth.
Speaker 3: I think it's more prevalent in America, where you almost
Speaker 3: can't even see that they're separate teeth. They're like a
Speaker 3: big white thing over the top, and it is definitely
Speaker 3: a marker of class. You see a lot of sort
Speaker 3: of reality TV stars that the moment they can afford it,
Speaker 3: they go and get one hundred percent smile transformed.
Speaker 1: I think it's the new baseline, and I don't think
Speaker 1: that's necessarily a good thing, but I think it's one
Speaker 1: of those ones. I refer to it earlier as a
Speaker 1: stealth beauty standard, because there are other things that are
Speaker 1: more obvious, like lip filler, boob jobs, buming plants. Even
Speaker 1: when everyone was wearing eyelash extensions and looked like they
Speaker 1: had little awnings over their eyes, you can notice those
Speaker 1: things more. But with teeth, it's only when you look
Speaker 1: back at something. I was watching Muriel's Wedding again with
Speaker 1: my kids a couple of years ago, and I was
Speaker 1: so struck by Tony Collette and Rachel Griffiths and everyone
Speaker 1: in that film. They had their own teeth, They had
Speaker 1: regular teeth, and it was shocking compared to even them
Speaker 1: compared to now. They didn't look terrible, but they just
Speaker 1: looked so different. And teeth is one of those things
Speaker 1: that I don't notice people's teeth unless they're really terrible
Speaker 1: or missing. I was very self conscious about my teeth,
Speaker 1: so I've got very big teeth. I stuck my thumb
Speaker 1: till I was twelve. I had very buck teeth.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I used to be called Bucky Beaver, and I always.
Speaker 2: Assumed but Amy Lee was called Bucky Beaver too, except
Speaker 2: to Manchester and.
Speaker 1: Bookie Beaver Bookie Beava. I assumed that I would have
Speaker 1: to have braces. A lot of my friends had braces.
Speaker 1: I went to see orthodontist and he's like, no, You've
Speaker 1: got something called a tongue thrust, which means that at
Speaker 1: rest boring to any one. I'm riveted. At rest, my
Speaker 1: tongue sat behind my teeth. Okay, instead of my body anyway,
Speaker 1: I changed it and my teeth of the gap because
Speaker 1: I said to biggap, and my teeth closed up. They
Speaker 1: haven't got smaller, but I guess my face has got
Speaker 1: biggert anyway. For a long time.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna say. People think about themselves
Speaker 2: too much, don't they? Yeah, people think about themselves a
Speaker 2: little too A long time though.
Speaker 1: People thought I had had my teeth done, and people
Speaker 1: still do. And some people when we were preparing for
Speaker 1: this segment today, were like, oh, I just assumed that
Speaker 1: you'd had your teeth white and or you'd had your
Speaker 1: teeth done. And when I started Mum and me, there
Speaker 1: was this commentary that was obsessed with my the fact
Speaker 1: that I'd had my teeth done, and that I was
Speaker 1: lying about it and claimed to know the dentist who
Speaker 1: did it and all this stuff. I actually haven't had
Speaker 1: my teeth done. I don't drink red wine, I don't
Speaker 1: drink coffee, and I've fixed my tongue thrust.
Speaker 3: Do you think though, firstly, teeth discoloration, which is even
Speaker 3: just the wrong word because we don't want teeth to
Speaker 3: be teeth colored anymore.
Speaker 1: But you know what is teeth tht.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's teeth blinding blinding.
Speaker 2: You go to look at the shades of white in
Speaker 2: a dentist like, it's amazing. It's more than when you're
Speaker 2: picking paint for your house.
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's like an arms race? Though? I
Speaker 1: think that the teeth, it's become the arms race of teeth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, teeth. What's interesting about it, though, is that it
Speaker 3: is a beauty standard that my male friends, you know,
Speaker 3: their insecurity is maybe their hairline and the color of
Speaker 3: their teeth. Like it's the one thing I'll see men
Speaker 3: do is go, do you use any teeth what like.
Speaker 1: Their penis size product? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 3: But the other thing is that when you go to
Speaker 3: the dentist, So I wonder if this has something to
Speaker 3: do with it. The health or the dental check is
Speaker 3: kind of confused with the cosmetic and the up selling
Speaker 3: and the up selling. So you go there and you
Speaker 3: sit in the chair and I'll go for a clean
Speaker 3: and you know, to check if I've got any holes
Speaker 3: or whatever. Often you'll see on the wall there's a
Speaker 3: poster telling you to get especially around weddings. It's like
Speaker 3: are you getting married?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, used to be make sure you have a
Speaker 1: manicure the day before your wedding. Now it's like your
Speaker 1: teeth program six months out. But I'm the opposite. I
Speaker 1: went to my dentist two weeks ago and I tried
Speaker 1: to convince him do I need my teeth whitened? This
Speaker 1: is what I mean about an arms race, And I've
Speaker 1: got really white teeth. And he's like, no, no, you don't.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, should I use whitening toothpaste? He goes,
Speaker 1: not really it or make your teeth sensitive? And I'm
Speaker 1: like I was using whitening toothpaste and my teeth were sensitive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesse.
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's part of the instagrammification of women's
Speaker 1: faces that it's like everyone's got the same teeth, everyone's
Speaker 1: got the same lips, everyone's got the same cheeks. You know,
Speaker 1: whether it's on a red carpet, not a lot of
Speaker 1: natural teeth on the oscars red carpet.
Speaker 3: I wonder what this signals. I wonder if it could
Speaker 3: potentially signal a shift that we go if you have like, okay,
Speaker 3: this I mean Amy lose teeth, Amy lose teeth. I
Speaker 3: wonder if we look at it, and I'm looking at
Speaker 3: that going Oh, but she's beautiful, but I love her
Speaker 3: teeth looking like that when everything is homogeneous, if there's
Speaker 3: this real appeal of someone who comes out, I remember
Speaker 3: watching it recently with Kieran Knightley in Black Doves. Her
Speaker 3: forehead moved and I went, oh, forads can move like
Speaker 3: I won w If this subversion might signal a new trend.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd like to think that, but I
Speaker 1: think she's just the outlie that proves the rule, because
Speaker 1: why else would Vanity Fair and all the media be
Speaker 1: writing whole stories about the teeth of one actor on
Speaker 1: White Lotus.
Speaker 2: A massive thank you out louders for listening to us
Speaker 2: today and for being here as always, and to our
Speaker 2: fabulous team for putting the show together. We're going to
Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3: And if you are looking for something else to listen to.
Speaker 3: On yesterday's subscriber episode, we sat down with our friend
Speaker 3: Emily Vernham who joined us for a very special Ask
Speaker 3: Us Anything. We talked about new dating apps. I mentioned
Speaker 3: one on the show a while ago. We talked more
Speaker 3: about that and also a new one that all my
Speaker 3: friends are swearing by. The three questions that Emma says
Speaker 3: you should definitely ask on a first day.
Speaker 1: I was so shocked to yes first.
Speaker 3: Ah, me too. And also you might have seen the
Speaker 3: story of the influencer who took a baby one bat
Speaker 3: from its mother. Oh, we talk about that we didn't
Speaker 3: have an opportunity to on the show, and we also
Speaker 3: shared the TV and TV storylines and tropes that we
Speaker 3: are so done with seeing on our screens. We will
Speaker 3: pop a link in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Bye bye, out louders you still hear We've got a
Speaker 1: little treat to check who the out louders at the
Speaker 1: top of the leader board are that listened to right
Speaker 1: at the end of the show. Here's a hot tip
Speaker 1: we learnt about at the end of our planning meeting
Speaker 1: when our CEO marched into the kitchen and said she's
Speaker 1: got to run across the road to Woolies because the
Speaker 1: new twenty dollars Anya hind Marsh bag. It's like a
Speaker 1: carry bag, like the kind of bag you know, a
Speaker 1: reusable kind of a bag. It's called the Universal Bag.
Speaker 1: It's an echo friendly tote available in green and blue.
Speaker 1: It has a ten year guarantee. I don't know why
Speaker 1: you need a ten year guarantee on your bag, but
Speaker 1: she's on a mission to encourage shoppers to ditch plastics.
Speaker 1: She usually makes very expensive bags that are worth hundreds
Speaker 1: of dollars. You can get it now from Woolies for
Speaker 1: twenty dollars. And this is not an ad. This is
Speaker 1: just a public service in normal.
Speaker 2: Treat Shout out to Annie, Mamma Maya. Subscribers listening. If
Speaker 2: you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 2: subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to
Speaker 2: do it. There's a link in the episode description.