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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: A Gwyneth Paltrow profile cover story in fact, dropped in

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Speaker 1: Vanity Fair today, and there are so many morsels.

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Speaker 2: It's like hilarious how she is the most rarefied and

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Speaker 2: the most basic at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And she's also following in the footsteps she says of

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Speaker 3: a camera dias.

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Speaker 1: Except you're just basic.

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Speaker 2: But I haven't got SHITLINGKF, Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 2: Out loud, what women actually talking about On Wednesday, the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth of March. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm me.

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Speaker 3: A Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on the show today, it must be my birthday

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Speaker 2: because a big new profile of Gwyneth Paltrow has dropped,

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Speaker 2: and it tells us a lot about what it takes

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Speaker 2: to be a female mogul, movie star, sex symbol, cultural icon.

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Speaker 2: In twe twenty.

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Speaker 3: You've manifested something in that story, which is.

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Speaker 1: The content gods have delivered to us today.

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Speaker 2: And all of that is very instructive for the rest

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Speaker 2: of us mere mortals. So we're going to unpack that. Also,

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Speaker 2: the new Snow White remake has everything half billion dollar budget,

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Speaker 2: troll in, flaming casting decisions, apparently feuding co stars, a

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Speaker 2: hot mess of a press tour except for an audience

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Speaker 2: and teeth. How the White lotuses Amy lou wood is

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Speaker 2: upending the rules about a Hollywood actress's face and mouth

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Speaker 2: is meant to look like. But first, Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 3: In case you missed it, NASA SpaceX astronauts Butch Wilmore

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Speaker 3: and Sunny Williams have finally returned from the International Space

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Speaker 3: Station after getting stuck.

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Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that.

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Speaker 3: I've been watching this story very closely because I needed

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Speaker 3: them home and they've come home. So the pair was

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Speaker 3: scheduled to have a week long mission, but technical issues

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Speaker 3: you don't want their men's face, and delays with their

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Speaker 3: ride home. That's the Boeing star Liner capsule meant they

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Speaker 3: spent two hundred and eighty six days up there or

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Speaker 3: nine months.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine you're going away for a week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And also like delays, it's like what was there

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Speaker 1: like a space shuttle strike?

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Speaker 3: So there were issues with the something about helium. I

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Speaker 3: imagine here's how I imagined it.

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Speaker 1: Details.

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Speaker 3: The spaceship came had big holes in it, That's how

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Speaker 3: I imagine it. And they went, couldn't get on, and

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Speaker 3: that felt like not a good idea.

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Speaker 2: We've seen Apolo thirteenth. They explained it to a kid,

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Speaker 2: something broke on your daddy's ship.

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Speaker 3: That's happened something and they didn't get on it. Good move, okay,

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Speaker 3: other than probably not packing enough underwear. There's been a

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Speaker 3: lot of talk about some issues that Wilmore and Williams

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Speaker 3: have encountered. So in November of last year, images of Williams,

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Speaker 3: in particular, she's the fifty nine year old female astronaut.

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Speaker 3: You might have seen photos of her. They prompted widespread

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Speaker 3: concern because she had lost a significant amount of weight,

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Speaker 3: and the effects of space travel are known to be

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Speaker 3: harsher on women. They lose muscle at a faster rate.

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Speaker 3: So after two hundred and eighty six days in space,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you what happen as to the

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Speaker 3: human body, how they came back right, So, significant bone

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Speaker 3: density loss, no matter how many weight, how much cottage,

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Speaker 3: you know, she had to eat at least double the

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Speaker 3: calories that like I don't know how you would get

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Speaker 3: in as much food.

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Speaker 2: And then two hours of it and it's not yummy food.

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Speaker 2: It's not yemmy freeze dried space food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, horrible.

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Speaker 1: How do you even do exercise in space if there's

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Speaker 1: no grad.

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Speaker 3: It's like an exercise bike and you get on that

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Speaker 3: for literally two hours and waited.

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Speaker 1: You'd be fine.

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Speaker 3: Temporary height increase by at least a few centimeters taller

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Speaker 3: because the discs like because they don't have the gravitational push. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: fluid shifts towards the head, meaning that you become really congested,

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Speaker 3: so you can have a running nose, headache, lots of issues.

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Speaker 3: And that also skin though probably yes, except for the

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Speaker 3: gaunt because of all the weight we've lost and you

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Speaker 3: come back with vision is skin.

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Speaker 1: Car space, he'd probably run out, he'd run out of

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Speaker 1: like she wouldn't need tempons, especially if you thought you

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Speaker 1: were going for a week.

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Speaker 3: Remember there was a woman who was going to space

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Speaker 3: and they gave them one hundred tampons for a week

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Speaker 3: long mission. I'm pretty sure she didn't even have a period.

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Speaker 3: But what it exemplified was how science astronauts in space

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Speaker 3: do not understand women and their periods. Loss of taste

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Speaker 3: and smell, which is apparently a good thing because that

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Speaker 3: capsule is not smelling good by the end, Increased cancer risk,

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Speaker 3: increased likelihood of kidney stones due to dehydration. You come

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Speaker 3: back very dizzy and fatigue.

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Speaker 1: Sounds great sign me that here's.

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Speaker 3: A good thing. You come back all your skin baby

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Speaker 3: soft because nothing's rubbed against it, so you know, even

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Speaker 3: your feet like shoes, and you like. You come back

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Speaker 3: like a new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, skinny, sick with brit Or bones.

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Speaker 3: And apparently a lot of the astronauts never get used

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Speaker 3: to sleeping in space, so this can be the hardest thing,

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Speaker 3: is a sleep deprivation. Nine months without a good night sleep.

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Speaker 3: I've read somewhere that they sleep like bats upside down.

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Speaker 2: Shut up the blood rushing to the head. That would

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Speaker 2: make that worse. I don't understand space. Not all of

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Speaker 2: this information has clearly been lost on me, But.

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Speaker 1: So not go then. They a quite Paltrow profile cover

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Speaker 1: story in fact dropped in Vanity Fair today, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many morsels. She hasn't done a big interview

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Speaker 1: like this for quite a long time, and there's many

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Speaker 1: many parts to this interview. She spoke about Goop, being

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Goop group's been around for I think

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Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen years. She's still the CEO. She

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Speaker 1: spoke about her divorce from Chris Martin and how they

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Speaker 1: are this big, blended family along with her new husband

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Speaker 1: Brad Felchuck, his ex wife, various children, girlfriend's partners. It

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Speaker 1: was recorded just after the big wildfires in La so

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Speaker 1: to set the scene, she had to flee her Hollywood home,

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Speaker 1: which she has since sold, which was undamaging the fires

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Speaker 1: in the end, but she had to go to her

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Speaker 1: Montecito home, which you may remember is where Megan Markle

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Speaker 1: and Oprah live. So that's I think an hour or

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Speaker 1: so out of the heart of Hollywood. And while the

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Speaker 1: interviewer was there, the removalists were bringing some of the

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Speaker 1: furniture from her Hollywood home to the Monticito home, things

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Speaker 1: like her pilates reformer. What were some of the other things.

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Speaker 2: The cases of wine, her cases.

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Speaker 1: Of wine, and she was what was she doing? She

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Speaker 1: was talking to.

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Speaker 2: The speaking to the crew in perfect Spanish. It said,

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Speaker 2: the details in this are so good. The crew unloads

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Speaker 2: at least one Pilartes reformer. Someone asks Paltrow's head of

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Speaker 2: security where she wants the wine. Paltrow speaks to staff

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Speaker 2: as influence Spanish, and then she nuzzles foul Chuck, who's

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Speaker 2: appeared by the side door in a shawl collared sweater

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Speaker 2: and shealing clogs. Gwyneth is also wearing shealing clogs.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's wearing shaling sheepskin, and so it would be like

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Speaker 1: kind of like you know, those birkenstocks.

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Speaker 3: And clogs, but with sheepskin, it's like hair clog out

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Speaker 3: a cloggug a clug A clug. Okay, clug.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. She talks about both her children have since gone

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Speaker 1: to college in the last sort of year or two,

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Speaker 1: Apple and Moses, and she talks about how she doesn't

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Speaker 1: like the term empty Nesta. She likes to call her

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Speaker 1: and Brad freebirds.

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Speaker 3: She loves a new term she loves a Rebra does well.

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Speaker 1: Actually that was conscious uncoupling instead of divorce. She is

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Speaker 1: and she's very self conscious about it. And this is

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Speaker 1: what's really interesting, Like there are so many parts in

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Speaker 1: this profile where you could say she's really tone deaf.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of part of her charm and part of

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Speaker 1: her brand.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask you about two headlines that I've seen,

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Speaker 3: and I want you to tell me if they're hyperbolic

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Speaker 3: or what she actually said. So the first one is

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Speaker 3: that she's commented on Megan Markle because of course there's

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Speaker 3: been a bit of hullor Blue. Yeah, that Meghan Markle

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Speaker 3: has copied the Gwyneth and Gwyneth was accused of copying

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Speaker 3: the Martha Stewart. Yeah, what did she say about Megan?

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Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting is that Martha Stewart slammed Gwyneth when

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Speaker 1: Grenneth started to do goop, and I suppose the interviewer

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Speaker 1: was hoping that Gwyneth would then slam Meghan Markle. Now

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Speaker 1: this was recorded before Meghan Michaels show would come out,

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Speaker 1: But she said no, I haven't seen an early version

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Speaker 1: of it. But she said, I don't know Meghan. She said,

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Speaker 1: I've met her before and she seems perfectly nice, even

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Speaker 1: though we live in Montecito along with Oprah. And at

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Speaker 1: one point she looks at the window and says, Oh,

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Speaker 1: what's that drone there for? And then she's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that perhaps get three for the price of one. Me

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Speaker 1: Harry and Meghan and Oprah when they come to Ontcito anyway,

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Speaker 1: she's completely nondescript. She says, I wish it well. I

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Speaker 1: believe that everybody should be able to do what they're

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Speaker 1: interested in.

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Speaker 2: She says that she has a strong instinct to stand

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Speaker 2: up for women in the culture, and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of noise around them, which.

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Speaker 3: I could understand relate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very upset to think though, that they're

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Speaker 2: not hanging out all the time. She did make it

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Speaker 2: prep about how she'd like to try and take a

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Speaker 2: pie up there if she could get through security.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: One of its friends with Oprah, and Oprah is friends

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Speaker 3: with Meghan, and I'm just surprised.

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Speaker 1: Friends with Megan anyway. It's interesting because there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of bits that jumped out to me. One was when

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Speaker 1: she talks about her business because in the last year,

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Speaker 1: I've had to lay off quite a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: They laid off about eighteen percent of their stuff, which

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Speaker 1: is about forty people, and then they laid off another

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Speaker 1: twelve shortly after that. And she spoke carefully when she

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Speaker 1: was asked about this, because the press around it was

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Speaker 1: that Goop was doing very badly and this is why

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Speaker 1: they had to lay people off, And she said that's

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Speaker 1: actually not true. We needed to improve our ebitdar. Now

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Speaker 1: ebitda is.

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Speaker 3: So many acronyms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she very not self consciously, but kind of naturally,

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Speaker 1: I guess put on her CEO hadn't started speaking in

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Speaker 1: business words. So she basically said, we'd become bloated. We'd

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Speaker 1: hired too many people, we were doing too many things,

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Speaker 1: that had a multiple podcasts, that had a Netflix show,

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Speaker 1: they were doing cruisers, they did all these different things.

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Speaker 1: And she said, we'd become bloated, which is something that

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Speaker 1: happens to many businesses, and we just had to right

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Speaker 1: size ourself to be more profitable.

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Speaker 2: I think all that sounded very convinced totally, though. I

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Speaker 2: really like the bit sorry where she says, because we

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Speaker 2: all talked about this is how few years ago Goop

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Speaker 2: just became like a sex toy shop.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It was just nearly all expensive vibrators and lots of

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Speaker 2: sexual wellness and very famously the candle that smells like

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Speaker 2: my vagina and all that and in here she says,

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Speaker 2: and it's absolutely right because I am one of these people,

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Speaker 2: she said, the people who come to buy like a

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Speaker 2: gag gift for their friend, like I have wanted to

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Speaker 2: buy and my cannel smells like my vagina gift for everyone,

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Speaker 2: or a vibrator from Goop. Are not the same people

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Speaker 2: who are going to come back and buy more things.

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Speaker 2: And that's by like.

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Speaker 1: A cashmere throw for a thousand dollar serums and stuff.

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Speaker 3: But I don't think that's the only reason why she's

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Speaker 3: discontinued some of those products. So she did go very

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Speaker 3: heavy on the vagina for a while, and there was

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Speaker 3: the Yoni eggs and the.

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Speaker 1: Jade eggs, and there was a court case.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I think that's an important footnote that

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Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen the company agreed food of.

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Speaker 1: It's a vage note. Really it's a.

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Speaker 3: Bad Yeah, exactly right, a vage note. There was a

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Speaker 3: one hundred and forty five thousand dollars settlement because they

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Speaker 3: made unsubstantiated medical claims.

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Speaker 1: That that's not a big deal in the scheme of dollars.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to have consumer protection complaints against you.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting, and this is kind of at the

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Speaker 1: heart of what a lot of the commentary is about.

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Speaker 1: With this piece, she says that she's very much an

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Speaker 1: early adopter and that she makes way in the culture

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Speaker 1: for things to become mainstream. So she said this before

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Speaker 1: about yoga, which a lot of people were very critical

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Speaker 1: of because she didn't invent it. She talked about, well,

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Speaker 1: how she did that with wellness or meditation or all

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Speaker 1: the things that she was doing. And she's not wrong

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Speaker 1: about that, because when Goop was talking about wellness and

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Speaker 1: even things like conscious uncoupling, and she talks about exploring

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Speaker 1: alternate modalities, which is basically the gateway to other people say, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're just asking questions, and people are saying the Make

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Speaker 1: America Healthy Again movement spearheaded by RFK Jr. Who has

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Speaker 1: some very strong beliefs, anti mainstream, anti science beliefs that

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Speaker 1: almost like the more hardcore, more trump version of what

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Speaker 1: Winner's been doing for a long time. And she doesn't

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Speaker 1: really dispute that she talks about liking raw milk, that

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Speaker 1: people have lost faith in institutions.

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Speaker 2: But that's all true, right, He's one hundred percent right,

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Speaker 2: And like there are lots that we've discussed this before

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Speaker 2: on the show, there are lots and lots of women

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Speaker 2: who believe in traditional medicine and supplementary medicine and alternative

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Speaker 2: modalities and all these things. And she is not wrong,

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Speaker 2: Like when she makes a point in here about raw

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Speaker 2: milk and she's like, there could be dangers to raw milk,

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Speaker 2: but are we expecting that the dairy industry are going

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Speaker 2: to be the ones who are gonna spearhead that she's right?

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Speaker 2: Like this is why people have lost trust in institutions.

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Speaker 2: The thing is about this is if you listen to

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Speaker 2: this show, you know that I have a big soft

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Speaker 2: spot for Gwyneth And it's not because I love her.

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Speaker 2: I just find her fascinating. And this interview articulated why.

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Speaker 2: Because if you're a woman, if you're a gen X woman,

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Speaker 2: she has been around for a very long time. And

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Speaker 2: one of my Roman empires is that I think about

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Speaker 2: her ears all the time, right, Like there was the

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Speaker 2: dating Brad pitt eras, there was the smoking ciggies with

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Speaker 2: Winona Ryder. She was a skinny girl. She was the

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Speaker 2: first person I ever heard talk about having a macrobiotic

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Speaker 2: diet and everyone's like, what's that? And then everyone was doing.

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Speaker 1: She was out when everyone else was running.

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Speaker 2: Then she had her era when she moved to London

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Speaker 2: and became a housewife and started blogging about bread and

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Speaker 2: then she was in Marvel and like fix you by

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Speaker 2: coldplayers about her, like she is a person in the

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Speaker 2: culture who looms very large, and if you are a

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Speaker 2: woman in the culture who looms large, you are always

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Speaker 2: going to attract an enormous amount of shit. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying for a minute that she doesn't deserve some

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Speaker 2: of that, because what she's trying to sell everybody is

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Speaker 2: unquestionably a very very privileged, pretty white lady version of aspiration.

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Speaker 1: She's the original influence.

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Speaker 2: She is in many ways, but I think there's also

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Speaker 2: a lot to be respected there. I admire the fact

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Speaker 2: that she's never run away from it all, like the

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Speaker 2: shit that she has copped over the years, and the

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Speaker 2: abuse and the round mocking, She's turned a lot of

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Speaker 2: it to her advantage, which I kind of admire. Also,

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Speaker 2: she gives a good interview. She's usually quite honest. Like

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Speaker 2: so Michelle Rue is in her house in Montecito, and

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Speaker 2: who wouldn't want to go to Gwyneth Pultro's house in

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Speaker 2: Montecito describes immediately what she's wearing, a Gray's cardigan, white

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Speaker 2: wide leg jeans and her shiling like clocks. And the

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Speaker 2: first thing you do is you go, oh, I've got.

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Speaker 1: White, white leg jeans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, every woman in the world is deciding whether she

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Speaker 2: has any of those things. Then they were the journalist

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Speaker 2: describes what kind of milk she puts in her coffee,

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Speaker 2: because everybody wants to know what kind of milk Gwyneth

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Speaker 2: Paltrow puts in a coffee, either because they want to

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Speaker 2: copy her or they want to take.

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Speaker 1: The piss out of her for it.

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Speaker 2: So there's a level of fascination that I just love

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Speaker 2: to lean into.

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Speaker 3: I read another headline that referred to the slight Gwyneth

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Speaker 3: Paltrow made against Blake Lively in this Yeah, in this profile,

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Speaker 3: that's that's an I read the entire profile. Couldn't find

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Speaker 3: the slight. This is where they've tried to up a

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Speaker 3: bit of tension on the discussion of intimacy coordinators, which

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Speaker 3: is big in Hollywood at the moment because in the

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Speaker 3: Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: Since Me Too, they've been intimacy couaday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is, but it's the geist because Lively said

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Speaker 3: we didn't have one and we should have had one,

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Speaker 3: and everyone has one.

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Speaker 1: And they choreographed sex scenes and.

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Speaker 3: Gwyneth Paltrow in talking about her new film, which is

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Speaker 3: excuse my French, but Hollywayen Writ's Wet Dream, which is

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Speaker 3: Gwyneth Paltrow with a very young Timothy Schallamey. She says

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Speaker 3: they were offered an intimacy coordinator, and she basically went,

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Speaker 3: what the hell this is interrupting my process? And I

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Speaker 3: read that and went, oh, yeah, well power to you.

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Speaker 3: I like the idea that you're offered it, but I

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Speaker 3: don't think that it's mandatory that you use it. If

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Speaker 3: you feel like it's consensual and comfortable and you know

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Speaker 3: what your job is. But she has been roundly criticized

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Speaker 3: even since last morning.

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Speaker 1: It did come across, and of course her process is

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Speaker 1: a process, but it did come across a little bit

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Speaker 1: like you're a pussy if you need one.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. Because then she had a line

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Speaker 3: clarifying it about being someone who was maybe just entering

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Speaker 3: the industry or being a little bit younger. It's interesting

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Speaker 3: to consider whether her and Timothy sit together and decide

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Speaker 3: whether you have an intimacy coord They did.

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Speaker 1: She said, we talked about it. She is funny about that,

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Speaker 1: because Okay, first of all, why is she doing this profile? Yep,

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Speaker 1: we should cover that off. The reason is, there's two reasons.

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Speaker 1: The first is she's starting acting again. I think it's

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Speaker 1: two reasons. I mean her. Brad Falchuk gives a quote

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Speaker 1: and says, Gwyneth is a supermum with absolutely no irony.

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth is a supermam. Her mum's stuff and this is

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Speaker 1: very and she loved so much. She was so fulfilled

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Speaker 1: when the kids were growing up, and she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to travel and she wanted to be at home with them,

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Speaker 1: which is fair enough. But now that they've left, she's

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Speaker 1: feeling herself again. She's exploring. She's a free bird. She's

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Speaker 1: getting back to acting. So after fifteen years, she's done

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Speaker 1: a couple of little things, but she's getting back to acting.

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Speaker 1: In her first leading role after that is this movie

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Speaker 1: where you won't believe this. She plays an older woman

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Speaker 1: having an affair with the younger man. He's a ping

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Speaker 1: pong player and he's Timothy Chalamey, and she's quite funny.

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Speaker 1: She says, look, I'm one hundred and nine and you're fourteen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know she's quite funny. And when photos of them

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Speaker 1: on the set appeared a few months ago, people speculated

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Speaker 1: that she was playing his mother. And that's interesting too

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Speaker 1: because the interviewer also says, unlike a lot of her

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Speaker 1: contemporaries in Hollywood, she has not filled her lips or

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Speaker 1: her lines on her face. And that's true when you

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Speaker 1: see her. She's a spokesperson for a type of botox,

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Speaker 1: but she natural. Yeah, she's not shy about the fact

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Speaker 1: that she does tweatments, but she does not look overfilled

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Speaker 1: like her contemporaries. Right. So the first reason is to

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Speaker 1: announce her return to acting, but I think that was

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Speaker 1: more just a hook. The real reason she's done it

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Speaker 1: is because she's been trying to sell group for quite

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Speaker 1: a while and all the bad publicity around them right

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Speaker 1: sizing and having to sack people. And she also did

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Speaker 1: a diffusion line called Good Clean Goop in Target that

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Speaker 1: was a disaster, and there was a lot of negative

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Speaker 1: press about her business. So she really needed to re

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Speaker 1: establish that her business was actually successful. And I also

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00:18:20,661 --> 00:18:22,941
Speaker 1: think she's working probably because she's a free bird, but

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Speaker 1: I also got the sense probably needs a bit of

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Speaker 1: revenue into the company there is that's fine, So that's

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Speaker 1: why she's doing the.

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Speaker 2: Time that she sounds the most cranky because, as I said, before.

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Speaker 2: She's weathered a lot of that criticism, and she always

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Speaker 2: says that's what you get when you're a trailblazer and

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Speaker 2: blah blah. But there is a bit where she kind

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Speaker 2: of says, but when it affects your bottom line, it's

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Speaker 2: not funny anymore, which kind of makes it sound like

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Speaker 2: that some of that criticism really has been affecting the

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Speaker 2: bottom line.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I would have been, because it's very bad for brand,

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Speaker 1: and there would have been investors. I think the smartest

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Speaker 1: thing to do if she wants to sell the company

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Speaker 1: is to a point of CEO that's not her well.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, because she talks in this and I was thinking about,

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Speaker 2: you may because she talks about I'm the kind of

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Speaker 2: CEO who or the journalist says, likes to be on slack,

401
00:19:03,542 --> 00:19:06,661
Speaker 2: likes to be involved, but I don't like Excel spreadsheets.

402
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Speaker 2: And I was like, I've heard this story. My smart

403
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Speaker 2: friend Mia went, you know what, Yeah, the CEO does.

404
00:19:12,581 --> 00:19:15,261
Speaker 2: There's a lot that's very mid about this interview, right, Gwinneth,

405
00:19:15,262 --> 00:19:18,101
Speaker 2: if you ever feel like coming on, because she's all

406
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Speaker 2: about moving into her next phase. I'm in raging Perry menopause.

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00:19:21,462 --> 00:19:24,021
Speaker 2: I'm doing something new, and that's what all women this

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Speaker 2: age are like. It's like hilarious how she is the

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Speaker 2: most rarefied and the most basic at.

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Speaker 1: The same time.

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Speaker 3: And she's also following in the footsteps, she says of

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Speaker 3: a Cameron Diaz.

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Speaker 1: Except you're just basic. But I haven't gone shilling clog.

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Speaker 3: That she talks about how she's following in the footsteps

415
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Speaker 3: of a Cameron Diaz and a Demi Moore who did

416
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Speaker 3: step away for a little while and then came back

417
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Speaker 3: a going I've had so much more experience. I think

418
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Speaker 3: I'm actually going to be better at my craft.

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Speaker 2: And she was a very good actress, she actually and

420
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Speaker 2: so there'll be high stakes Christmas Day everybody. By the way,

421
00:19:54,581 --> 00:19:58,581
Speaker 2: the movie that's a long wait out loud as in

422
00:19:58,621 --> 00:20:01,381
Speaker 2: a moment, how a feel good family remake has become

423
00:20:01,542 --> 00:20:10,061
Speaker 2: a cultural hot potato. We are talking about snow White.

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Speaker 4: This was my father's kingdom, a place of fairness, but

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Speaker 4: the queen changed everything.

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Speaker 1: Take him away, your majesty, What did you.

427
00:20:23,901 --> 00:20:28,782
Speaker 4: Say The people need some kindness in a I really

428
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Speaker 4: don't remember you being this opinion needed, Let's make a

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00:20:34,542 --> 00:20:37,702
Speaker 4: live action snow White must have seemed like a no brainer.

430
00:20:37,702 --> 00:20:40,942
Speaker 4: For Disney back in twenty and sixty whatever could go wrong.

431
00:20:41,141 --> 00:20:43,061
Speaker 1: I know when the film.

432
00:20:42,821 --> 00:20:45,742
Speaker 2: That's being released here tomorrow was conceived. After all, there

433
00:20:45,782 --> 00:20:48,382
Speaker 2: had already been a live action Cinderella, a live action

434
00:20:48,422 --> 00:20:50,581
Speaker 2: Beauty and the Beast, a live action Little Mermaid, a

435
00:20:50,621 --> 00:20:54,462
Speaker 2: live action Lionking, and realize, live action mean it means

436
00:20:54,542 --> 00:20:58,782
Speaker 2: not a cartoon, so real life princesses. They would have

437
00:20:58,821 --> 00:21:01,742
Speaker 2: thought it even more fun than cartoon ones. They can

438
00:21:01,821 --> 00:21:03,861
Speaker 2: go out there and wear red carpet dresses and do

439
00:21:03,942 --> 00:21:05,302
Speaker 2: interviews and walk and talk.

440
00:21:05,702 --> 00:21:09,262
Speaker 3: The peceptis, Oh, how the world.

441
00:21:08,982 --> 00:21:12,621
Speaker 2: Can spire to prove them wrong? Very quick rundown. If

442
00:21:12,621 --> 00:21:15,581
Speaker 2: you've been seeing headlines around about snow white and most

443
00:21:15,661 --> 00:21:18,501
Speaker 2: controversial ever, Da da da da da, I'm gonna give

444
00:21:18,502 --> 00:21:21,542
Speaker 2: you a quick rundown of the controversies so that you

445
00:21:21,621 --> 00:21:23,821
Speaker 2: know plural plural definitely.

446
00:21:24,222 --> 00:21:24,302
Speaker 5: So.

447
00:21:24,422 --> 00:21:26,061
Speaker 2: First of all, movie production was meant to start in

448
00:21:26,061 --> 00:21:29,262
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. It was delayed by COVID very understandably, but

449
00:21:29,302 --> 00:21:32,661
Speaker 2: the casting finally gets announced in twenty twenty one and

450
00:21:32,782 --> 00:21:35,702
Speaker 2: immediately starts fires in some corners.

451
00:21:35,381 --> 00:21:36,302
Speaker 1: Of the internet.

452
00:21:36,661 --> 00:21:39,821
Speaker 2: Rachel Zegler, you might know her from West Side Story.

453
00:21:39,901 --> 00:21:43,101
Speaker 2: She's an amazing singer. She's a teeny tiny little actress,

454
00:21:43,341 --> 00:21:45,782
Speaker 2: really good actress was cast in the lead. The thing

455
00:21:45,942 --> 00:21:48,982
Speaker 2: is snow White, which let's remember the cartoon version was

456
00:21:48,982 --> 00:21:52,222
Speaker 2: made in nineteen thirty seven. Snow White is the fairest

457
00:21:52,262 --> 00:21:54,542
Speaker 2: of them all, with skin as white as snow. It's

458
00:21:54,542 --> 00:21:57,462
Speaker 2: literally where she got her name. And Zegler, who does

459
00:21:57,502 --> 00:21:59,861
Speaker 2: look a lot like a Disney princess, to be honest,

460
00:22:00,341 --> 00:22:03,861
Speaker 2: is of Colombian descent. So that was the start of

461
00:22:03,982 --> 00:22:07,101
Speaker 2: the Disney's Gone woke drums, right.

462
00:22:07,022 --> 00:22:11,102
Speaker 1: So there was some pushback around that time, wasn't there

463
00:22:11,182 --> 00:22:15,022
Speaker 1: about oh, why have they gone woke? Why have they cast?

464
00:22:15,182 --> 00:22:18,141
Speaker 1: And there was a similar pushback around when they cast

465
00:22:18,621 --> 00:22:22,741
Speaker 1: Hallie Bailey as the Little Mermaid, and she is an

466
00:22:22,742 --> 00:22:24,621
Speaker 1: actress of color as well, and there was a lot

467
00:22:24,661 --> 00:22:26,701
Speaker 1: of pushback about our Disney so wake when they're just

468
00:22:26,742 --> 00:22:27,982
Speaker 1: trying to do you.

469
00:22:27,942 --> 00:22:32,221
Speaker 2: Want cartoon princesses to look like the cartoon princesses, is

470
00:22:32,262 --> 00:22:36,222
Speaker 2: what people say. Then Peter Dinklich, who's probably the most

471
00:22:36,302 --> 00:22:39,381
Speaker 2: high profile actor of short stature in the world thanks

472
00:22:39,381 --> 00:22:43,061
Speaker 2: to Game of Thrones among other things, publicly questioned the

473
00:22:43,101 --> 00:22:47,222
Speaker 2: whole premise of bringing back a movie about seven dwarves.

474
00:22:47,462 --> 00:22:50,702
Speaker 2: This is him speaking about that on Mark Maron's podcast.

475
00:22:50,742 --> 00:22:53,462
Speaker 6: This is what he says, Well, you know, it's really

476
00:22:53,742 --> 00:22:58,061
Speaker 6: progressive to cast literally no offense to anything. But I

477
00:22:58,141 --> 00:23:02,661
Speaker 6: was little taken back by the they're very proud to

478
00:23:02,702 --> 00:23:07,382
Speaker 6: cast a Latino actress as snow white. Yeah, but you're

479
00:23:07,422 --> 00:23:12,542
Speaker 6: still telling the story seven dwarfs. Sure take a step

480
00:23:12,581 --> 00:23:14,741
Speaker 6: back and look at what you're doing there. Yeah, you know,

481
00:23:15,222 --> 00:23:17,621
Speaker 6: I think it makes no sense to me, So what

482
00:23:17,782 --> 00:23:20,021
Speaker 6: would be You're progressive in one way and then but

483
00:23:20,061 --> 00:23:24,381
Speaker 6: you're still making that fucking backward oh story about seven

484
00:23:24,462 --> 00:23:27,702
Speaker 6: dwarves living in a cave. To get what the fuck

485
00:23:27,782 --> 00:23:28,341
Speaker 6: are you doing?

486
00:23:28,422 --> 00:23:28,662
Speaker 2: Man?

487
00:23:29,141 --> 00:23:29,381
Speaker 1: You know?

488
00:23:30,222 --> 00:23:33,101
Speaker 6: Have I have I done nothing to advance the cause

489
00:23:34,262 --> 00:23:39,821
Speaker 6: from my soapbox? I guess I'm not loud enough. I

490
00:23:39,821 --> 00:23:41,741
Speaker 6: don't know what. I don't know what studio that is,

491
00:23:41,782 --> 00:23:43,982
Speaker 6: but it was. They were so proud of that, and

492
00:23:44,022 --> 00:23:46,221
Speaker 6: all love and respect to that, to the actress and

493
00:23:46,262 --> 00:23:48,742
Speaker 6: to the people who thought they were doing the right thing.

494
00:23:48,782 --> 00:23:50,502
Speaker 6: But I'm just like, you don't what.

495
00:23:50,542 --> 00:23:51,141
Speaker 1: Are you doing?

496
00:23:51,462 --> 00:23:54,621
Speaker 2: The seven Dwarfs in the final film and now cgi

497
00:23:54,861 --> 00:23:57,861
Speaker 2: magical creatures who are still called sneezy and dopey, and

498
00:23:57,901 --> 00:24:00,262
Speaker 2: they look just like really the Seven Dwarfs.

499
00:24:00,262 --> 00:24:01,942
Speaker 1: They're not referred to as dwarfs.

500
00:24:01,982 --> 00:24:04,782
Speaker 2: No, and Disney said they did that to avoid in

501
00:24:04,901 --> 00:24:07,182
Speaker 2: quotes reinforcing stereotypes.

502
00:24:07,422 --> 00:24:12,022
Speaker 1: So I heard that. Then some act with dwarfism pushed

503
00:24:12,061 --> 00:24:14,221
Speaker 1: back on Peter Dinklige and said, hey, there's not a

504
00:24:14,222 --> 00:24:16,262
Speaker 1: lot of roles for us in Hollywood. Glad that you've

505
00:24:16,302 --> 00:24:20,182
Speaker 1: got all of them. That's seven roles that we could

506
00:24:20,222 --> 00:24:23,942
Speaker 1: have got that now aren't available to us because you've

507
00:24:23,982 --> 00:24:24,982
Speaker 1: scared everybody off.

508
00:24:25,022 --> 00:24:27,662
Speaker 3: I think that the choice was unpopular in some circles

509
00:24:27,702 --> 00:24:31,181
Speaker 3: to then do the CGI, because then they're voiced by people,

510
00:24:31,182 --> 00:24:32,942
Speaker 3: but the people who are voicing it are not necessarily

511
00:24:32,982 --> 00:24:36,542
Speaker 3: people of small stature, so that can be seen as ablest.

512
00:24:36,621 --> 00:24:38,101
Speaker 3: I think they were between a rock and a hard

513
00:24:38,101 --> 00:24:40,302
Speaker 3: place with that decision. It was a really, really hard one.

514
00:24:40,542 --> 00:24:45,901
Speaker 3: But when ableism is entrenched in the actual fabric of

515
00:24:45,942 --> 00:24:48,461
Speaker 3: the story, that's something you're gonna have to deal with

516
00:24:48,502 --> 00:24:48,742
Speaker 3: head on.

517
00:24:49,101 --> 00:24:51,702
Speaker 2: So that was another one, yeah, of the controversies.

518
00:24:52,101 --> 00:24:53,942
Speaker 1: Then I haven't even started making a movie again.

519
00:24:54,821 --> 00:24:58,381
Speaker 2: Then a conflict erupted in the Middle East. Nothing to

520
00:24:58,381 --> 00:25:00,821
Speaker 2: do with a cute fairy tale movie. You might imagine

521
00:25:00,982 --> 00:25:04,341
Speaker 2: wrong because the evil queen in this movie is being

522
00:25:04,381 --> 00:25:08,221
Speaker 2: played by wonder woman Galgadot, who famously served in the

523
00:25:08,262 --> 00:25:13,422
Speaker 2: Israeli Defense Force. Her coastar Zegler, publicly declared her sympathy

524
00:25:13,422 --> 00:25:17,182
Speaker 2: for Palestine on social media. So now the two leads

525
00:25:17,222 --> 00:25:20,022
Speaker 2: are on opposite sides of the most divisive conflict on

526
00:25:20,061 --> 00:25:20,582
Speaker 2: the plan.

527
00:25:20,462 --> 00:25:24,022
Speaker 3: And you've got Getot speaking publicly. Yeah, they're both quite

528
00:25:24,061 --> 00:25:26,702
Speaker 3: active on social media. Yeah they are. And it's probably

529
00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:30,701
Speaker 3: important to clarify to that military service in Israel is

530
00:25:31,101 --> 00:25:34,982
Speaker 3: mandatory for almost all people. But she's speaking really openly

531
00:25:34,982 --> 00:25:36,661
Speaker 3: about free the hostages.

532
00:25:36,141 --> 00:25:38,462
Speaker 2: And she made public speeches, yes.

533
00:25:38,341 --> 00:25:41,581
Speaker 1: Exactly, And imagine Disney at this point. I know then

534
00:25:41,861 --> 00:25:42,982
Speaker 1: are their agents.

535
00:25:43,542 --> 00:25:47,141
Speaker 2: Then Zekler made a comment about how the original plotline

536
00:25:47,182 --> 00:25:49,581
Speaker 2: about the handsome prince who awakes snow white with a

537
00:25:49,661 --> 00:25:52,341
Speaker 2: kiss was a bit off, and suggested that she was

538
00:25:52,381 --> 00:25:54,262
Speaker 2: involved in an update. This is what she said.

539
00:25:54,422 --> 00:25:56,821
Speaker 5: The original cartoon came out in nineteen thirty seven, and

540
00:25:56,942 --> 00:26:01,222
Speaker 5: very evidently so there is a big focus on her

541
00:26:01,422 --> 00:26:02,662
Speaker 5: love story.

542
00:26:03,101 --> 00:26:04,742
Speaker 3: With a guy who literally stalks her.

543
00:26:05,821 --> 00:26:09,262
Speaker 5: Weird, weird, so we didn't do that this time.

544
00:26:09,661 --> 00:26:11,782
Speaker 3: So no prince or a different kind of prince.

545
00:26:11,901 --> 00:26:14,262
Speaker 5: We have a different approach to what I'm sure a

546
00:26:14,262 --> 00:26:16,701
Speaker 5: lot of people will assume is a love story just

547
00:26:16,742 --> 00:26:18,941
Speaker 5: because like we cast a guy in the movie and

548
00:26:19,061 --> 00:26:21,942
Speaker 5: jaw burna. It's really not about the love story at all,

549
00:26:21,942 --> 00:26:23,701
Speaker 5: which is really really wonderful, and whether or not she

550
00:26:23,742 --> 00:26:26,061
Speaker 5: finds love along the way is anybody's guess until twenty

551
00:26:26,101 --> 00:26:28,302
Speaker 5: twenty four. It's an inner journey that she goes on

552
00:26:28,381 --> 00:26:29,901
Speaker 5: to find her true self and she meets a lot

553
00:26:29,942 --> 00:26:32,661
Speaker 5: of people along the way that make the journey really incredible.

554
00:26:32,901 --> 00:26:34,982
Speaker 2: That really pissed off a lot of the Disney's Gone

555
00:26:35,022 --> 00:26:36,821
Speaker 2: Woke gang. We didn't like it.

556
00:26:36,861 --> 00:26:38,821
Speaker 3: Disney fans love a love story.

557
00:26:38,982 --> 00:26:41,622
Speaker 1: Like what she said, It's almost like that is what

558
00:26:41,742 --> 00:26:46,341
Speaker 1: every actress who plays a Disney princess in modern times

559
00:26:46,742 --> 00:26:49,022
Speaker 1: has to contend with the idea that, oh, but isn't

560
00:26:49,022 --> 00:26:51,181
Speaker 1: it all just about a handsome prince comes along? And

561
00:26:51,222 --> 00:26:54,662
Speaker 1: so I feel that fairytales have evolved, or the portrayal

562
00:26:54,702 --> 00:26:57,181
Speaker 1: of them have evolved, and they should evolve.

563
00:26:57,262 --> 00:26:59,382
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But there's a dance to be done. There

564
00:26:59,422 --> 00:27:01,661
Speaker 3: is a dance with any sort of remake where what

565
00:27:01,702 --> 00:27:04,661
Speaker 3: you're trying to do is capture the audience who loves

566
00:27:04,661 --> 00:27:07,702
Speaker 3: the original and find a new audience in the modern moment.

567
00:27:07,982 --> 00:27:11,542
Speaker 3: So imagine if with Bridget Joanes rene Zelwega just came

568
00:27:11,581 --> 00:27:13,581
Speaker 3: out and trashed the original and was like, yeah, that

569
00:27:13,661 --> 00:27:16,542
Speaker 3: was really fat, phobic and regressive, she would have lost

570
00:27:16,581 --> 00:27:18,341
Speaker 3: a portion of the audience. So I think that there

571
00:27:18,422 --> 00:27:22,902
Speaker 3: is a real careful dance of just like I respect

572
00:27:22,942 --> 00:27:25,661
Speaker 3: the other. There are a few updates that we've You're right.

573
00:27:25,782 --> 00:27:27,141
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that you have to

574
00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:28,702
Speaker 2: bear in mind all the time, because we've got one

575
00:27:28,742 --> 00:27:34,821
Speaker 2: more of these controversies, is that Zegler is twenty three. Yeah, okay.

576
00:27:35,061 --> 00:27:39,901
Speaker 2: Then when Trump won the twenty twenty four election, Zegler again,

577
00:27:40,022 --> 00:27:42,181
Speaker 2: she's twenty three. Not that I'm editorializing.

578
00:27:42,702 --> 00:27:43,702
Speaker 1: Posted about it.

579
00:27:44,022 --> 00:27:48,262
Speaker 2: She posted, may Trump supporters and Trump voters and Trump

580
00:27:48,341 --> 00:27:53,262
Speaker 2: himself never no peace, fuck Donald Trump. Now the thing

581
00:27:53,341 --> 00:27:57,222
Speaker 2: is those people are now in charge, she may have noticed,

582
00:27:57,821 --> 00:28:00,621
Speaker 2: and they have been primed and ready to attack this

583
00:28:00,782 --> 00:28:04,061
Speaker 2: massive Disney property on all fronts. Now it's in cinemas,

584
00:28:04,141 --> 00:28:08,502
Speaker 2: but everything about the launch has been scaled back. No

585
00:28:08,502 --> 00:28:11,382
Speaker 2: non Disney approved lists were allowed at the La Red

586
00:28:11,381 --> 00:28:13,621
Speaker 2: carpet premiere, it was mostly influences. It was held in

587
00:28:13,621 --> 00:28:16,262
Speaker 2: the middle of the day. Now, Goodott and Zegler did

588
00:28:16,262 --> 00:28:19,461
Speaker 2: post together, then it's not like they're scrapping publicly or anything.

589
00:28:19,702 --> 00:28:21,701
Speaker 2: They did post together, and they did present at the

590
00:28:21,702 --> 00:28:25,422
Speaker 2: Oscars together. But now anytime that anywhere near each other all,

591
00:28:25,462 --> 00:28:28,582
Speaker 2: anyone's looking for the signs of tension. So generally Disney

592
00:28:28,621 --> 00:28:31,022
Speaker 2: is sending them off separately to do separate things. So

593
00:28:31,101 --> 00:28:33,782
Speaker 2: good Dot was sent to one of the Disney parks

594
00:28:33,782 --> 00:28:36,262
Speaker 2: to post with lots of little girls, and Zegler was

595
00:28:36,302 --> 00:28:38,742
Speaker 2: sent to Spain to sing to lots of little girls,

596
00:28:39,342 --> 00:28:40,422
Speaker 2: and the movie.

597
00:28:43,182 --> 00:28:43,902
Speaker 1: Was taken away.

598
00:28:44,262 --> 00:28:46,102
Speaker 3: Let's remember, Oh my god.

599
00:28:46,102 --> 00:28:49,421
Speaker 2: Can you imagine the conversations with the publicists, and the

600
00:28:49,462 --> 00:28:53,222
Speaker 2: movie that cost half a billion US dollars all up

601
00:28:53,262 --> 00:28:56,781
Speaker 2: with production and promotion, is now projected to make a

602
00:28:56,862 --> 00:29:00,462
Speaker 2: tiny fraction of that the domestic box office, even though

603
00:29:00,502 --> 00:29:03,862
Speaker 2: the people who've actually seen it say it's pretty good.

604
00:29:05,142 --> 00:29:07,982
Speaker 3: What are we I have a few theories about what's

605
00:29:07,982 --> 00:29:12,022
Speaker 3: going on here. When you are an actor like Galga

606
00:29:12,062 --> 00:29:16,142
Speaker 3: Dot or Zegla, you have your own personal brand, and

607
00:29:16,182 --> 00:29:20,021
Speaker 3: personal brand is becoming increasingly important. And for Zeglar, that

608
00:29:20,182 --> 00:29:23,142
Speaker 3: brand is about feminism, it is about human rights, It

609
00:29:23,222 --> 00:29:25,782
Speaker 3: is about being outspoken and progressive.

610
00:29:26,222 --> 00:29:28,981
Speaker 1: So is Galgatotts ironically, yes, yeah it is.

611
00:29:29,062 --> 00:29:31,662
Speaker 3: It is, but Zegler has been in different ways. She's

612
00:29:31,702 --> 00:29:34,142
Speaker 3: been more outspoken on social and with the Trump comment,

613
00:29:34,782 --> 00:29:39,502
Speaker 3: what I think is difficult is when that brand comes

614
00:29:39,502 --> 00:29:42,302
Speaker 3: in conflict with a bigger brand. I remember us talking

615
00:29:42,302 --> 00:29:44,502
Speaker 3: about something years ago that was like a brand can't

616
00:29:44,502 --> 00:29:46,701
Speaker 3: exist within a brand, And I think this is the

617
00:29:46,862 --> 00:29:49,421
Speaker 3: issue with press tours, is that the point of a

618
00:29:49,462 --> 00:29:53,302
Speaker 3: press tour is that we are promoting Snow White the

619
00:29:53,422 --> 00:29:57,021
Speaker 3: Disney Show, where the ven diagram of Trump fans and

620
00:29:57,142 --> 00:30:01,382
Speaker 3: Disney fans there is overlap. Therefore, we do not upset

621
00:30:01,622 --> 00:30:02,902
Speaker 3: Trump supporters.

622
00:30:03,222 --> 00:30:04,701
Speaker 1: Well, you don't want to say you don't want to

623
00:30:04,782 --> 00:30:08,102
Speaker 1: upset anyone, No, exactly. And also, can't we just go

624
00:30:08,182 --> 00:30:11,261
Speaker 1: to our Disney film and just the news cycle behind us,

625
00:30:11,262 --> 00:30:12,382
Speaker 1: which is what everyone wants?

626
00:30:12,422 --> 00:30:15,022
Speaker 2: Yet which you can. And lots of people are saying

627
00:30:15,022 --> 00:30:18,781
Speaker 2: that this movie will probably be successful anyway because and

628
00:30:18,822 --> 00:30:21,182
Speaker 2: as someone who's you know, my kids are older now,

629
00:30:21,222 --> 00:30:24,902
Speaker 2: but parents love a family movie. They will take their

630
00:30:24,982 --> 00:30:27,941
Speaker 2: kids to this regardless because they don't care about culture wars.

631
00:30:28,422 --> 00:30:31,782
Speaker 2: But you're so right that the comments by Ziegler in particular,

632
00:30:31,822 --> 00:30:34,582
Speaker 2: particularly the Trump ones, have given a lot of people

633
00:30:34,582 --> 00:30:36,222
Speaker 2: a reason not to go yes.

634
00:30:36,342 --> 00:30:39,142
Speaker 3: And I think that when the audience, like the Snow White,

635
00:30:39,622 --> 00:30:43,501
Speaker 3: we are launching a movie publicity meeting, in terms of

636
00:30:43,582 --> 00:30:47,742
Speaker 3: our talking points are not at all what the talking

637
00:30:47,782 --> 00:30:49,502
Speaker 3: points of the two lead actors would be. And I

638
00:30:49,502 --> 00:30:51,342
Speaker 3: think that this is where presstours are going wrong. I

639
00:30:51,382 --> 00:30:53,702
Speaker 3: also think the lead up is too long and people

640
00:30:53,782 --> 00:30:56,741
Speaker 3: say too much shit. You give people enough airtime and

641
00:30:56,782 --> 00:31:00,181
Speaker 3: it's like they've been talking about this for years, and

642
00:31:00,222 --> 00:31:04,421
Speaker 3: everything they say then reflects on the movie. The film

643
00:31:04,502 --> 00:31:07,142
Speaker 3: has also been canceled from the left and the right,

644
00:31:07,182 --> 00:31:08,622
Speaker 3: which is a terrific feat.

645
00:31:10,142 --> 00:31:11,582
Speaker 1: I guess it shows that it's balanced.

646
00:31:11,782 --> 00:31:16,501
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's polarized everyone from every walk of life, and

647
00:31:16,582 --> 00:31:18,502
Speaker 3: it has also come at a moment. I think that

648
00:31:18,582 --> 00:31:22,181
Speaker 3: this is probably the perfect storm of rolled back DEI

649
00:31:23,022 --> 00:31:29,461
Speaker 3: of a moment in American popular culture where racism is

650
00:31:30,062 --> 00:31:33,302
Speaker 3: rearing its ugly head again in quite an explicit way,

651
00:31:33,342 --> 00:31:36,382
Speaker 3: like it's always existed. But I think that to have

652
00:31:36,661 --> 00:31:41,102
Speaker 3: a snow White that's a person of color just touches

653
00:31:41,142 --> 00:31:43,422
Speaker 3: the buttons of people who feel like they have license

654
00:31:43,462 --> 00:31:45,902
Speaker 3: again to be outrageously racist.

655
00:31:45,982 --> 00:31:50,542
Speaker 1: Isn't it sad that inclusivity, which is such a great thing,

656
00:31:50,822 --> 00:31:53,182
Speaker 1: and all the little girls who can't be what they

657
00:31:53,182 --> 00:31:57,022
Speaker 1: can't see and such a positive thing I think for

658
00:31:57,062 --> 00:32:02,502
Speaker 1: the world, has been weaponized and called woke as if

659
00:32:02,502 --> 00:32:05,382
Speaker 1: it's an insult, as if it's a terrible thing. And

660
00:32:05,822 --> 00:32:10,862
Speaker 1: the word anti woke, which can sometimes b euphemism for

661
00:32:10,942 --> 00:32:14,702
Speaker 1: being cruel or racist or intolerant of others or I'm

662
00:32:14,742 --> 00:32:18,661
Speaker 1: thinking and unkind. That's become a badge that some people

663
00:32:18,782 --> 00:32:21,262
Speaker 1: like to wear. And I wanted to ask you, Jesse,

664
00:32:21,382 --> 00:32:23,542
Speaker 1: do you think you know once upon a time, Rene

665
00:32:23,582 --> 00:32:25,942
Speaker 1: Zellweger could walk a red carpet, Julia Roberts could walk

666
00:32:25,942 --> 00:32:28,421
Speaker 1: a red carpet, Cameron Diaz could walk a red carpet

667
00:32:28,422 --> 00:32:31,262
Speaker 1: and they would not be asked their opinion on cultural issues.

668
00:32:31,622 --> 00:32:34,502
Speaker 1: Do you think that's possible now, in the age of

669
00:32:34,542 --> 00:32:37,702
Speaker 1: social media, for anyone to do that?

670
00:32:37,782 --> 00:32:39,462
Speaker 3: This is what I mean about brand as I was

671
00:32:39,502 --> 00:32:42,461
Speaker 3: thinking about sort of a Julia robertson notting Hill. We

672
00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:45,021
Speaker 3: don't know what she stood for don't stand for anything.

673
00:32:45,142 --> 00:32:47,741
Speaker 3: Don't she just was she stood for notting Hill. That

674
00:32:47,862 --> 00:32:48,702
Speaker 3: was the she.

675
00:32:48,622 --> 00:32:50,302
Speaker 1: Had Harry under Ams the one time has a big

676
00:32:50,382 --> 00:32:51,622
Speaker 1: deal an accident.

677
00:32:51,702 --> 00:32:53,862
Speaker 2: I think we're about to see that coming back. And

678
00:32:53,902 --> 00:32:56,262
Speaker 2: your point you just made me, which is absolutely spot

679
00:32:56,302 --> 00:32:58,462
Speaker 2: on about inclusive casting, has probably had its day for

680
00:32:58,502 --> 00:33:00,862
Speaker 2: a while, which is depressing as all hell, right, because

681
00:33:01,462 --> 00:33:04,742
Speaker 2: there's no question that Rachel's egglers looking great. There's snow white,

682
00:33:04,982 --> 00:33:07,062
Speaker 2: everybody is saying, and she looks a lot like her anyway.

683
00:33:07,262 --> 00:33:09,941
Speaker 2: But I think that we are about to see it

684
00:33:10,022 --> 00:33:13,542
Speaker 2: coming back because after the massive backlash on Hollywood stars

685
00:33:13,622 --> 00:33:18,702
Speaker 2: who were almost unilaterally supporting progressive causes and have had

686
00:33:18,742 --> 00:33:21,542
Speaker 2: no impact whatsoever on any of the election results or

687
00:33:21,582 --> 00:33:24,662
Speaker 2: any of those things, the intense risk on these movies,

688
00:33:24,702 --> 00:33:27,462
Speaker 2: which are so expensive to make, I think that we're

689
00:33:27,502 --> 00:33:29,502
Speaker 2: going to go back to a very ad nine like

690
00:33:30,062 --> 00:33:31,062
Speaker 2: don't ask me anything.

691
00:33:31,661 --> 00:33:34,941
Speaker 3: I also policy think that this is a very public

692
00:33:35,062 --> 00:33:38,182
Speaker 3: example of something that is happening within the arts, which

693
00:33:38,302 --> 00:33:42,462
Speaker 3: is a real division, especially with what's happening in the

694
00:33:42,502 --> 00:33:46,982
Speaker 3: Middle East, between these these two camps who are clashing

695
00:33:47,222 --> 00:33:50,102
Speaker 3: and feeling threatened and feeling undermined and This is the

696
00:33:50,182 --> 00:33:52,582
Speaker 3: thing about diversity, right. You can go, oh, we want

697
00:33:52,622 --> 00:33:55,102
Speaker 3: people to look different, but diversity also means that people

698
00:33:55,102 --> 00:33:57,661
Speaker 3: are going to show up with different opinions. And I

699
00:33:57,822 --> 00:34:00,542
Speaker 3: thought that, you know, seeing them at the Oscars standing there,

700
00:34:00,661 --> 00:34:02,062
Speaker 3: they've both behaved very of.

701
00:34:02,062 --> 00:34:06,102
Speaker 2: Course, to be clear, they have not like said anything

702
00:34:06,262 --> 00:34:09,382
Speaker 2: about each other or been you know, verbally or otherwise

703
00:34:09,582 --> 00:34:12,821
Speaker 2: unching on about any issues. It's all been projected on them.

704
00:34:13,302 --> 00:34:15,742
Speaker 2: It's really complicated, but I predict it will be a

705
00:34:15,782 --> 00:34:19,702
Speaker 2: big hit, if not in theaters and streaming, because family

706
00:34:19,822 --> 00:34:22,542
Speaker 2: movies are the bread and butter. Like Bluey I Think,

707
00:34:22,701 --> 00:34:25,502
Speaker 2: which obviously is an Australian property, is one of Disney

708
00:34:25,542 --> 00:34:27,902
Speaker 2: Plus's most successful properties.

709
00:34:28,022 --> 00:34:28,582
Speaker 1: Full Stop.

710
00:34:28,741 --> 00:34:31,022
Speaker 2: Parents want things to watch with their kids. They don't

711
00:34:31,062 --> 00:34:32,142
Speaker 2: care about all this stuff.

712
00:34:34,542 --> 00:34:37,462
Speaker 3: Feedback is a gift from both the perspective of a

713
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:39,221
Speaker 3: giver as well as the recipient.

714
00:34:40,822 --> 00:34:44,622
Speaker 1: There's a homeowner who has some feedback and they've been

715
00:34:44,701 --> 00:34:47,901
Speaker 1: in the news this week because their house was open

716
00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:52,462
Speaker 1: for inspection and they have a sign on the toilet

717
00:34:52,661 --> 00:34:55,582
Speaker 1: that has gone viral and it says, please don't use

718
00:34:55,622 --> 00:35:00,661
Speaker 1: this toilet. Thank you. People are apparently taking a break

719
00:35:00,701 --> 00:35:04,062
Speaker 1: from inspecting homes to use the toilet. Real estate agents

720
00:35:04,102 --> 00:35:06,781
Speaker 1: aren't happy. They've said people come to inspections and use

721
00:35:06,822 --> 00:35:08,862
Speaker 1: the toilet. I find it gross. A lot of the

722
00:35:08,902 --> 00:35:11,381
Speaker 1: time people that come to use the toilet aren't even

723
00:35:11,422 --> 00:35:15,221
Speaker 1: there to inspect the property. Oh my god, thought of that.

724
00:35:15,422 --> 00:35:17,181
Speaker 1: Busting to go to the loo when you're walking down

725
00:35:17,221 --> 00:35:20,222
Speaker 1: the street. Just pop into an open for inspection. People

726
00:35:20,302 --> 00:35:23,261
Speaker 1: don't do that. And this real estate agent that's quoted

727
00:35:23,261 --> 00:35:25,261
Speaker 1: in the article says it's like coming to our house

728
00:35:25,342 --> 00:35:29,062
Speaker 1: inspection and using the microwave to heat up food if

729
00:35:29,142 --> 00:35:33,502
Speaker 1: that food was pooh. I added that last.

730
00:35:33,622 --> 00:35:36,622
Speaker 3: I can't believe have you had people do this.

731
00:35:36,862 --> 00:35:38,782
Speaker 1: I've done it, not a pooh, but I've done wheeze

732
00:35:38,781 --> 00:35:41,022
Speaker 1: in it in an open people walking through.

733
00:35:41,062 --> 00:35:42,701
Speaker 3: I don't know what open inspectors you're going to, but

734
00:35:42,822 --> 00:35:47,462
Speaker 3: for me, there are three hundred people elbowing each other

735
00:35:47,542 --> 00:35:48,102
Speaker 3: out of the way.

736
00:35:48,542 --> 00:35:50,821
Speaker 1: It is a it's got to be a quiet one.

737
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:53,102
Speaker 1: It's going to be a quiet to be. It can't

738
00:35:53,142 --> 00:35:55,102
Speaker 1: be like a studio apartment.

739
00:35:58,862 --> 00:36:00,221
Speaker 3: I would not and be like, I want to see

740
00:36:00,261 --> 00:36:00,702
Speaker 3: the shower.

741
00:36:01,862 --> 00:36:04,502
Speaker 2: This has happened in my world. One of my children

742
00:36:04,582 --> 00:36:06,542
Speaker 2: did this. We were looking at an open house when

743
00:36:06,582 --> 00:36:08,902
Speaker 2: we were when we moved, and I'd lost one of

744
00:36:08,902 --> 00:36:10,861
Speaker 2: my children from because they had to come because who

745
00:36:10,942 --> 00:36:12,382
Speaker 2: was going to look after them? And I was like,

746
00:36:12,422 --> 00:36:15,502
Speaker 2: where have they gone? Where they're gone? Indeed, they were

747
00:36:15,582 --> 00:36:17,901
Speaker 2: in the bathroom. The door was not locked and they

748
00:36:17,942 --> 00:36:20,781
Speaker 2: were using it for a number two. Oh. I thought

749
00:36:20,822 --> 00:36:23,542
Speaker 2: that was mortifying enough until our producer Ruth told us

750
00:36:23,582 --> 00:36:25,142
Speaker 2: that that also happened to her when our kids were

751
00:36:25,142 --> 00:36:28,462
Speaker 2: a little except that that toilet was not even connected

752
00:36:28,542 --> 00:36:29,182
Speaker 2: to the plumbing.

753
00:36:29,741 --> 00:36:31,781
Speaker 3: Okay, so this used to be. I remember going and

754
00:36:31,822 --> 00:36:35,102
Speaker 3: looking at and remember display homes. I remembering looking when

755
00:36:35,102 --> 00:36:37,981
Speaker 3: I was a kid at at display homes with Mum,

756
00:36:38,342 --> 00:36:40,741
Speaker 3: and I definitely considered using one of those toilets. But

757
00:36:40,781 --> 00:36:42,582
Speaker 3: you look down and it's like concrete or some like.

758
00:36:42,661 --> 00:36:45,622
Speaker 3: It's not it's not plugged in at all. I don't

759
00:36:45,701 --> 00:36:47,102
Speaker 3: know how you rectify that situation.

760
00:36:47,741 --> 00:36:50,701
Speaker 1: After the break, there's a surprising new beauty standard that's

761
00:36:50,781 --> 00:36:53,302
Speaker 1: crept in by Stealth, and no one has been talking

762
00:36:53,342 --> 00:36:54,462
Speaker 1: about until now.

763
00:36:55,302 --> 00:36:59,262
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

764
00:36:59,302 --> 00:37:03,462
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers follow the

765
00:37:03,542 --> 00:37:05,381
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your

766
00:37:05,462 --> 00:37:08,181
Speaker 3: ears five days a week, and a huge thank you

767
00:37:08,422 --> 00:37:09,382
Speaker 3: to all our current.

768
00:37:17,701 --> 00:37:20,582
Speaker 1: You released a bunch of venomous snakes today. You do

769
00:37:20,781 --> 00:37:23,341
Speaker 1: realize that you're fucking deranged.

770
00:37:23,942 --> 00:37:26,741
Speaker 3: We need to talk about teeth. For weeks, viewers of

771
00:37:26,781 --> 00:37:31,102
Speaker 3: The White Lotus have been marveling at Amy lou Wood's teeth.

772
00:37:31,502 --> 00:37:33,381
Speaker 3: There's a photo on our instagram if you like to see.

773
00:37:33,422 --> 00:37:33,941
Speaker 3: If you've not been.

774
00:37:33,822 --> 00:37:34,542
Speaker 2: Watched bunny teeth.

775
00:37:34,542 --> 00:37:35,142
Speaker 1: They're calling them.

776
00:37:35,462 --> 00:37:37,942
Speaker 3: Well, yes, Kerry Sackville is calling it bunny teeth for

777
00:37:37,982 --> 00:37:40,821
Speaker 3: the Sydney Morning Herald. But they are so unlike what

778
00:37:40,942 --> 00:37:44,661
Speaker 3: we normally see on television that they were actually acknowledged

779
00:37:44,701 --> 00:37:48,102
Speaker 3: on screen. Her friend Chloe remarked, I love your teeth

780
00:37:48,221 --> 00:37:51,181
Speaker 3: the character. Yes, yes, they are front and center. So

781
00:37:51,462 --> 00:37:55,261
Speaker 3: Kerry Sackville wrote that these bunny teeth give her hope.

782
00:37:55,342 --> 00:37:59,261
Speaker 3: She argues that quirky female faces are almost exclusively on

783
00:37:59,542 --> 00:38:02,381
Speaker 3: character actors who play supporting roles. If we ever see them,

784
00:38:02,462 --> 00:38:05,822
Speaker 3: they're supporting roles. But what's exciting is that not only

785
00:38:06,062 --> 00:38:09,181
Speaker 3: is would a lead, but she's a trophy girlfriend of

786
00:38:09,221 --> 00:38:12,502
Speaker 3: an old demand. She is positioned as desirable and attractive.

787
00:38:13,062 --> 00:38:16,422
Speaker 3: Vanity Fair called her teeth not just charming but inspiring,

788
00:38:16,822 --> 00:38:19,781
Speaker 3: and would herself have spoken about how her teeth were

789
00:38:19,822 --> 00:38:22,422
Speaker 3: a source of great insecurity. Growing up, she was bullied

790
00:38:22,462 --> 00:38:24,462
Speaker 3: for them. She didn't believe she'd ever be able to

791
00:38:24,542 --> 00:38:28,582
Speaker 3: work in television, and now she finds her smile empowering

792
00:38:28,622 --> 00:38:31,741
Speaker 3: and rebellious, although she says she'll never be able to

793
00:38:31,822 --> 00:38:35,142
Speaker 3: play an American. She said Americans do not have teeth

794
00:38:35,302 --> 00:38:37,461
Speaker 3: like hers. Holly, do you think that's true?

795
00:38:37,582 --> 00:38:41,861
Speaker 2: One hundred percent truth. Amy is from where I'm from. Friend,

796
00:38:41,982 --> 00:38:44,902
Speaker 2: She is from Stockport, which is very close to Manchester,

797
00:38:45,422 --> 00:38:47,741
Speaker 2: so she is obviously a legend of all kinds. Yeah,

798
00:38:48,142 --> 00:38:50,341
Speaker 2: she's gorgeous. See that's one of the things we weren't

799
00:38:50,342 --> 00:38:53,382
Speaker 2: saying about this, is like she's got unusual teeth, but

800
00:38:53,502 --> 00:38:56,221
Speaker 2: she's absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, but it is one hundred cent

801
00:38:56,221 --> 00:38:58,261
Speaker 2: tru she couldn't play an American. You're probably not that

802
00:38:58,422 --> 00:39:00,821
Speaker 2: familiar with English TV, but when I was growing up

803
00:39:00,862 --> 00:39:03,582
Speaker 2: and you're watching, the biggest shows in Britain were the

804
00:39:03,661 --> 00:39:05,301
Speaker 2: soap operas EastEnders.

805
00:39:05,181 --> 00:39:06,502
Speaker 3: Watch Bill, there you go.

806
00:39:07,221 --> 00:39:11,062
Speaker 2: Nobody has perfect white teeth, but there are no shows

807
00:39:11,221 --> 00:39:14,701
Speaker 2: on American television where people do not have perfect white teeth.

808
00:39:14,781 --> 00:39:15,542
Speaker 1: Do you know why that is?

809
00:39:15,781 --> 00:39:19,622
Speaker 2: Well, the stereotype is that British people have bad dental care.

810
00:39:19,701 --> 00:39:21,902
Speaker 2: It's not actually true. If you dig into the research,

811
00:39:21,902 --> 00:39:23,022
Speaker 2: they have quite good dental care.

812
00:39:23,022 --> 00:39:24,341
Speaker 1: They have fluorid in the water.

813
00:39:24,741 --> 00:39:27,421
Speaker 2: I think that some places do and some places don't.

814
00:39:27,701 --> 00:39:30,462
Speaker 2: But going to the dentist in Britain is subsidized for

815
00:39:30,582 --> 00:39:32,261
Speaker 2: kids and things like that. But there is just a

816
00:39:32,502 --> 00:39:36,941
Speaker 2: very different culture of everybody getting their teeth sorted out.

817
00:39:37,261 --> 00:39:39,661
Speaker 1: So is it a marker of status? But even yeah,

818
00:39:39,781 --> 00:39:41,741
Speaker 1: rich people have nice teeth, but I've seen a lot

819
00:39:41,781 --> 00:39:43,142
Speaker 1: of posh people that actually don't.

820
00:39:43,462 --> 00:39:44,981
Speaker 2: I know that would also be a mark. That would

821
00:39:44,982 --> 00:39:47,022
Speaker 2: also be a mark of rebellion, because there's also a

822
00:39:47,062 --> 00:39:49,542
Speaker 2: little well not rebellion. But you see, the thing is

823
00:39:49,661 --> 00:39:52,982
Speaker 2: I snorted when somebody said that her teeth were like,

824
00:39:53,102 --> 00:39:56,502
Speaker 2: her teeth are inspiring, Like it's ridiculous, the idea that

825
00:39:56,902 --> 00:40:00,821
Speaker 2: normal face with normal features and like, what's the word?

826
00:40:01,342 --> 00:40:04,381
Speaker 2: No one has intervened on those teeth, that's the only thing, right,

827
00:40:04,462 --> 00:40:08,422
Speaker 2: So teeth that have not had intervention are like brave

828
00:40:08,542 --> 00:40:11,661
Speaker 2: and inspiring gandicity to me, I.

829
00:40:11,701 --> 00:40:14,462
Speaker 3: Think We've got to acknowledge though, that it is subversive

830
00:40:14,542 --> 00:40:17,422
Speaker 3: because her teeth my teeth without years of work. And

831
00:40:17,542 --> 00:40:19,741
Speaker 3: I got probably two years of dental work, and I

832
00:40:19,902 --> 00:40:23,382
Speaker 3: remember my mum sitting with the orthodontist and trying to

833
00:40:23,622 --> 00:40:27,622
Speaker 3: untangle what was cosmetic and what was truly necessary, which

834
00:40:27,661 --> 00:40:29,301
Speaker 3: has become increasingly blurry.

835
00:40:29,062 --> 00:40:31,221
Speaker 2: Because also we have to be clear, dental work is

836
00:40:31,422 --> 00:40:34,861
Speaker 2: so expensive. It is a marker of status, because yeah,

837
00:40:35,062 --> 00:40:38,542
Speaker 2: not everybody has like ten thousand dollars to be thrown

838
00:40:38,582 --> 00:40:40,542
Speaker 2: away on their kids' teeth just so that they have

839
00:40:40,701 --> 00:40:42,102
Speaker 2: the teeth that everyone has on TV.

840
00:40:42,422 --> 00:40:45,502
Speaker 3: Yes, but I think that the orthodontic thing, like yes,

841
00:40:45,582 --> 00:40:48,622
Speaker 3: as that. But there's also the reason that people get braces,

842
00:40:48,701 --> 00:40:51,702
Speaker 3: and the reason that people get work done is often

843
00:40:51,862 --> 00:40:55,462
Speaker 3: too for like health reasons, like for jaw pain and

844
00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:57,382
Speaker 3: for being able to clean it. Like I still have

845
00:40:57,661 --> 00:41:02,661
Speaker 3: crowding that makes flossing and everything difficult. But to see

846
00:41:02,741 --> 00:41:05,142
Speaker 3: what my teeth looked like and I got dental it'd

847
00:41:05,142 --> 00:41:07,062
Speaker 3: probably started when I was about twelve, and I did

848
00:41:07,102 --> 00:41:10,582
Speaker 3: the retainers and stuff. I remember being please self conscious

849
00:41:10,582 --> 00:41:12,982
Speaker 3: about the gap between my teeth as a kid. I

850
00:41:13,261 --> 00:41:15,861
Speaker 3: remember people would say to me, but Madonna has a gap,

851
00:41:16,221 --> 00:41:18,261
Speaker 3: and that was their way of making me feel better

852
00:41:18,701 --> 00:41:20,781
Speaker 3: about the fact that my teeth looked different. But I've

853
00:41:20,822 --> 00:41:24,301
Speaker 3: even felt it as an adult on television when you

854
00:41:24,422 --> 00:41:26,862
Speaker 3: look around and you go, I'm the only one without veneers,

855
00:41:27,022 --> 00:41:29,742
Speaker 3: and there's a look on television of the big.

856
00:41:29,661 --> 00:41:32,102
Speaker 1: White twiglet teeth, tee teeth.

857
00:41:32,181 --> 00:41:35,622
Speaker 3: I think it's more prevalent in America, where you almost

858
00:41:35,701 --> 00:41:37,821
Speaker 3: can't even see that they're separate teeth. They're like a

859
00:41:37,862 --> 00:41:41,102
Speaker 3: big white thing over the top, and it is definitely

860
00:41:41,862 --> 00:41:44,221
Speaker 3: a marker of class. You see a lot of sort

861
00:41:44,261 --> 00:41:47,142
Speaker 3: of reality TV stars that the moment they can afford it,

862
00:41:47,221 --> 00:41:50,102
Speaker 3: they go and get one hundred percent smile transformed.

863
00:41:50,422 --> 00:41:53,261
Speaker 1: I think it's the new baseline, and I don't think

864
00:41:53,342 --> 00:41:55,781
Speaker 1: that's necessarily a good thing, but I think it's one

865
00:41:55,822 --> 00:41:58,701
Speaker 1: of those ones. I refer to it earlier as a

866
00:41:58,741 --> 00:42:01,902
Speaker 1: stealth beauty standard, because there are other things that are

867
00:42:01,942 --> 00:42:06,861
Speaker 1: more obvious, like lip filler, boob jobs, buming plants. Even

868
00:42:06,902 --> 00:42:10,221
Speaker 1: when everyone was wearing eyelash extensions and looked like they

869
00:42:10,261 --> 00:42:12,901
Speaker 1: had little awnings over their eyes, you can notice those

870
00:42:12,942 --> 00:42:15,941
Speaker 1: things more. But with teeth, it's only when you look

871
00:42:16,022 --> 00:42:18,902
Speaker 1: back at something. I was watching Muriel's Wedding again with

872
00:42:19,022 --> 00:42:20,862
Speaker 1: my kids a couple of years ago, and I was

873
00:42:21,022 --> 00:42:26,102
Speaker 1: so struck by Tony Collette and Rachel Griffiths and everyone

874
00:42:26,942 --> 00:42:29,781
Speaker 1: in that film. They had their own teeth, They had

875
00:42:29,862 --> 00:42:33,102
Speaker 1: regular teeth, and it was shocking compared to even them

876
00:42:33,221 --> 00:42:36,382
Speaker 1: compared to now. They didn't look terrible, but they just

877
00:42:36,502 --> 00:42:38,901
Speaker 1: looked so different. And teeth is one of those things

878
00:42:38,942 --> 00:42:42,462
Speaker 1: that I don't notice people's teeth unless they're really terrible

879
00:42:42,622 --> 00:42:45,381
Speaker 1: or missing. I was very self conscious about my teeth,

880
00:42:45,382 --> 00:42:46,941
Speaker 1: so I've got very big teeth. I stuck my thumb

881
00:42:46,942 --> 00:42:49,102
Speaker 1: till I was twelve. I had very buck teeth.

882
00:42:49,741 --> 00:42:49,862
Speaker 5: You know.

883
00:42:49,942 --> 00:42:52,901
Speaker 1: I used to be called Bucky Beaver, and I always.

884
00:42:52,582 --> 00:42:55,782
Speaker 2: Assumed but Amy Lee was called Bucky Beaver too, except

885
00:42:55,822 --> 00:42:56,661
Speaker 2: to Manchester and.

886
00:42:56,661 --> 00:43:00,821
Speaker 1: Bookie Beaver Bookie Beava. I assumed that I would have

887
00:43:00,862 --> 00:43:02,662
Speaker 1: to have braces. A lot of my friends had braces.

888
00:43:02,701 --> 00:43:05,181
Speaker 1: I went to see orthodontist and he's like, no, You've

889
00:43:05,221 --> 00:43:08,301
Speaker 1: got something called a tongue thrust, which means that at

890
00:43:08,462 --> 00:43:12,582
Speaker 1: rest boring to any one. I'm riveted. At rest, my

891
00:43:12,902 --> 00:43:16,342
Speaker 1: tongue sat behind my teeth. Okay, instead of my body anyway,

892
00:43:16,701 --> 00:43:19,021
Speaker 1: I changed it and my teeth of the gap because

893
00:43:19,022 --> 00:43:22,062
Speaker 1: I said to biggap, and my teeth closed up. They

894
00:43:22,062 --> 00:43:24,062
Speaker 1: haven't got smaller, but I guess my face has got

895
00:43:24,102 --> 00:43:25,982
Speaker 1: biggert anyway. For a long time.

896
00:43:26,181 --> 00:43:28,342
Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna say. People think about themselves

897
00:43:28,342 --> 00:43:30,982
Speaker 2: too much, don't they? Yeah, people think about themselves a

898
00:43:31,022 --> 00:43:32,502
Speaker 2: little too A long time though.

899
00:43:32,582 --> 00:43:34,741
Speaker 1: People thought I had had my teeth done, and people

900
00:43:34,822 --> 00:43:36,862
Speaker 1: still do. And some people when we were preparing for

901
00:43:36,942 --> 00:43:38,942
Speaker 1: this segment today, were like, oh, I just assumed that

902
00:43:38,982 --> 00:43:40,341
Speaker 1: you'd had your teeth white and or you'd had your

903
00:43:40,382 --> 00:43:42,181
Speaker 1: teeth done. And when I started Mum and me, there

904
00:43:42,261 --> 00:43:44,421
Speaker 1: was this commentary that was obsessed with my the fact

905
00:43:44,462 --> 00:43:45,982
Speaker 1: that I'd had my teeth done, and that I was

906
00:43:46,102 --> 00:43:48,542
Speaker 1: lying about it and claimed to know the dentist who

907
00:43:48,582 --> 00:43:50,542
Speaker 1: did it and all this stuff. I actually haven't had

908
00:43:50,582 --> 00:43:52,142
Speaker 1: my teeth done. I don't drink red wine, I don't

909
00:43:52,181 --> 00:43:54,582
Speaker 1: drink coffee, and I've fixed my tongue thrust.

910
00:43:54,741 --> 00:43:58,622
Speaker 3: Do you think though, firstly, teeth discoloration, which is even

911
00:43:58,701 --> 00:44:00,301
Speaker 3: just the wrong word because we don't want teeth to

912
00:44:00,342 --> 00:44:01,342
Speaker 3: be teeth colored anymore.

913
00:44:01,622 --> 00:44:03,142
Speaker 1: But you know what is teeth tht.

914
00:44:03,502 --> 00:44:06,182
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's teeth blinding blinding.

915
00:44:06,542 --> 00:44:08,582
Speaker 2: You go to look at the shades of white in

916
00:44:08,701 --> 00:44:11,941
Speaker 2: a dentist like, it's amazing. It's more than when you're

917
00:44:11,942 --> 00:44:12,941
Speaker 2: picking paint for your house.

918
00:44:13,142 --> 00:44:15,301
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's like an arms race? Though? I

919
00:44:15,382 --> 00:44:18,022
Speaker 1: think that the teeth, it's become the arms race of teeth.

920
00:44:18,302 --> 00:44:20,781
Speaker 3: Yeah, teeth. What's interesting about it, though, is that it

921
00:44:20,902 --> 00:44:23,462
Speaker 3: is a beauty standard that my male friends, you know,

922
00:44:23,582 --> 00:44:26,741
Speaker 3: their insecurity is maybe their hairline and the color of

923
00:44:26,781 --> 00:44:28,542
Speaker 3: their teeth. Like it's the one thing I'll see men

924
00:44:28,661 --> 00:44:31,542
Speaker 3: do is go, do you use any teeth what like.

925
00:44:31,822 --> 00:44:33,461
Speaker 1: Their penis size product? Yeah?

926
00:44:33,502 --> 00:44:33,782
Speaker 2: Maybe.

927
00:44:34,382 --> 00:44:36,942
Speaker 3: But the other thing is that when you go to

928
00:44:37,022 --> 00:44:38,502
Speaker 3: the dentist, So I wonder if this has something to

929
00:44:38,582 --> 00:44:43,342
Speaker 3: do with it. The health or the dental check is

930
00:44:43,862 --> 00:44:47,102
Speaker 3: kind of confused with the cosmetic and the up selling

931
00:44:47,261 --> 00:44:48,781
Speaker 3: and the up selling. So you go there and you

932
00:44:48,862 --> 00:44:50,542
Speaker 3: sit in the chair and I'll go for a clean

933
00:44:50,622 --> 00:44:52,742
Speaker 3: and you know, to check if I've got any holes

934
00:44:52,781 --> 00:44:55,862
Speaker 3: or whatever. Often you'll see on the wall there's a

935
00:44:55,902 --> 00:44:59,102
Speaker 3: poster telling you to get especially around weddings. It's like

936
00:44:59,462 --> 00:45:00,422
Speaker 3: are you getting married?

937
00:45:00,582 --> 00:45:03,902
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, used to be make sure you have a

938
00:45:04,102 --> 00:45:06,942
Speaker 1: manicure the day before your wedding. Now it's like your

939
00:45:07,022 --> 00:45:10,261
Speaker 1: teeth program six months out. But I'm the opposite. I

940
00:45:10,302 --> 00:45:12,822
Speaker 1: went to my dentist two weeks ago and I tried

941
00:45:12,902 --> 00:45:15,062
Speaker 1: to convince him do I need my teeth whitened? This

942
00:45:15,102 --> 00:45:16,941
Speaker 1: is what I mean about an arms race, And I've

943
00:45:16,982 --> 00:45:18,861
Speaker 1: got really white teeth. And he's like, no, no, you don't.

944
00:45:18,902 --> 00:45:21,181
Speaker 1: And I'm like, should I use whitening toothpaste? He goes,

945
00:45:21,221 --> 00:45:22,941
Speaker 1: not really it or make your teeth sensitive? And I'm

946
00:45:22,982 --> 00:45:26,582
Speaker 1: like I was using whitening toothpaste and my teeth were sensitive.

947
00:45:26,781 --> 00:45:27,622
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesse.

948
00:45:27,701 --> 00:45:30,942
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's part of the instagrammification of women's

949
00:45:30,982 --> 00:45:34,261
Speaker 1: faces that it's like everyone's got the same teeth, everyone's

950
00:45:34,261 --> 00:45:36,982
Speaker 1: got the same lips, everyone's got the same cheeks. You know,

951
00:45:37,022 --> 00:45:39,261
Speaker 1: whether it's on a red carpet, not a lot of

952
00:45:39,342 --> 00:45:41,022
Speaker 1: natural teeth on the oscars red carpet.

953
00:45:41,302 --> 00:45:45,142
Speaker 3: I wonder what this signals. I wonder if it could

954
00:45:45,181 --> 00:45:49,421
Speaker 3: potentially signal a shift that we go if you have like, okay,

955
00:45:49,502 --> 00:45:51,661
Speaker 3: this I mean Amy lose teeth, Amy lose teeth. I

956
00:45:51,741 --> 00:45:53,502
Speaker 3: wonder if we look at it, and I'm looking at

957
00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:56,821
Speaker 3: that going Oh, but she's beautiful, but I love her

958
00:45:56,862 --> 00:45:59,941
Speaker 3: teeth looking like that when everything is homogeneous, if there's

959
00:45:59,982 --> 00:46:02,342
Speaker 3: this real appeal of someone who comes out, I remember

960
00:46:02,502 --> 00:46:05,901
Speaker 3: watching it recently with Kieran Knightley in Black Doves. Her

961
00:46:06,181 --> 00:46:08,862
Speaker 3: forehead moved and I went, oh, forads can move like

962
00:46:09,142 --> 00:46:14,102
Speaker 3: I won w If this subversion might signal a new trend.

963
00:46:14,102 --> 00:46:15,582
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd like to think that, but I

964
00:46:15,622 --> 00:46:17,862
Speaker 1: think she's just the outlie that proves the rule, because

965
00:46:17,942 --> 00:46:21,181
Speaker 1: why else would Vanity Fair and all the media be

966
00:46:21,261 --> 00:46:26,701
Speaker 1: writing whole stories about the teeth of one actor on

967
00:46:26,822 --> 00:46:27,701
Speaker 1: White Lotus.

968
00:46:28,102 --> 00:46:30,462
Speaker 2: A massive thank you out louders for listening to us

969
00:46:30,542 --> 00:46:32,382
Speaker 2: today and for being here as always, and to our

970
00:46:32,382 --> 00:46:34,382
Speaker 2: fabulous team for putting the show together. We're going to

971
00:46:34,422 --> 00:46:35,982
Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow.

972
00:46:35,661 --> 00:46:37,741
Speaker 3: And if you are looking for something else to listen to.

973
00:46:37,982 --> 00:46:41,341
Speaker 3: On yesterday's subscriber episode, we sat down with our friend

974
00:46:41,462 --> 00:46:44,142
Speaker 3: Emily Vernham who joined us for a very special Ask

975
00:46:44,221 --> 00:46:47,902
Speaker 3: Us Anything. We talked about new dating apps. I mentioned

976
00:46:47,902 --> 00:46:49,502
Speaker 3: one on the show a while ago. We talked more

977
00:46:49,502 --> 00:46:51,181
Speaker 3: about that and also a new one that all my

978
00:46:51,221 --> 00:46:54,421
Speaker 3: friends are swearing by. The three questions that Emma says

979
00:46:54,502 --> 00:46:56,301
Speaker 3: you should definitely ask on a first day.

980
00:46:56,382 --> 00:46:57,622
Speaker 1: I was so shocked to yes first.

981
00:46:57,661 --> 00:47:00,502
Speaker 3: Ah, me too. And also you might have seen the

982
00:47:00,582 --> 00:47:03,181
Speaker 3: story of the influencer who took a baby one bat

983
00:47:03,221 --> 00:47:06,062
Speaker 3: from its mother. Oh, we talk about that we didn't

984
00:47:06,102 --> 00:47:08,622
Speaker 3: have an opportunity to on the show, and we also

985
00:47:08,661 --> 00:47:11,422
Speaker 3: shared the TV and TV storylines and tropes that we

986
00:47:11,502 --> 00:47:13,861
Speaker 3: are so done with seeing on our screens. We will

987
00:47:13,902 --> 00:47:15,262
Speaker 3: pop a link in the show notes.

988
00:47:15,542 --> 00:47:20,422
Speaker 1: Bye bye, out louders you still hear We've got a

989
00:47:20,462 --> 00:47:23,342
Speaker 1: little treat to check who the out louders at the

990
00:47:23,382 --> 00:47:25,821
Speaker 1: top of the leader board are that listened to right

991
00:47:25,942 --> 00:47:28,062
Speaker 1: at the end of the show. Here's a hot tip

992
00:47:28,102 --> 00:47:29,861
Speaker 1: we learnt about at the end of our planning meeting

993
00:47:29,902 --> 00:47:33,181
Speaker 1: when our CEO marched into the kitchen and said she's

994
00:47:33,221 --> 00:47:35,422
Speaker 1: got to run across the road to Woolies because the

995
00:47:35,582 --> 00:47:40,622
Speaker 1: new twenty dollars Anya hind Marsh bag. It's like a

996
00:47:41,382 --> 00:47:43,382
Speaker 1: carry bag, like the kind of bag you know, a

997
00:47:43,462 --> 00:47:46,781
Speaker 1: reusable kind of a bag. It's called the Universal Bag.

998
00:47:47,062 --> 00:47:50,062
Speaker 1: It's an echo friendly tote available in green and blue.

999
00:47:50,462 --> 00:47:52,062
Speaker 1: It has a ten year guarantee. I don't know why

1000
00:47:52,102 --> 00:47:54,062
Speaker 1: you need a ten year guarantee on your bag, but

1001
00:47:54,221 --> 00:47:56,742
Speaker 1: she's on a mission to encourage shoppers to ditch plastics.

1002
00:47:56,741 --> 00:47:59,102
Speaker 1: She usually makes very expensive bags that are worth hundreds

1003
00:47:59,102 --> 00:48:01,741
Speaker 1: of dollars. You can get it now from Woolies for

1004
00:48:01,862 --> 00:48:04,382
Speaker 1: twenty dollars. And this is not an ad. This is

1005
00:48:04,542 --> 00:48:06,062
Speaker 1: just a public service in normal.

1006
00:48:05,862 --> 00:48:09,741
Speaker 2: Treat Shout out to Annie, Mamma Maya. Subscribers listening. If

1007
00:48:09,781 --> 00:48:11,982
Speaker 2: you love the show and you want to support us,

1008
00:48:12,261 --> 00:48:14,942
Speaker 2: subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to

1009
00:48:15,022 --> 00:48:17,382
Speaker 2: do it. There's a link in the episode description.