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Speaker 1: You're listening to i'mm with mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Makeup is my therapy, I'm in love.

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to you, beauty. I'm Kellen mccaren and

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Speaker 2: this is the formula. Now winter has officially started, you

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Speaker 2: probably started seeing winter skin switches, articles and content on

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Speaker 2: your feed. But do you actually need to make any

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Speaker 2: changes to your routine in winter or is it just

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Speaker 2: a ploy to get you to buy more products? Maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit of columny, maybe a little bit of

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Speaker 2: column be dermatologist Doctor Natasha Cook is back to separate

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Speaker 2: fact from fad, from what actually happens to the skin

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Speaker 2: in winter and if you should be making changes to

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Speaker 2: your routine and why. As always, this is an educational

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Speaker 2: chat and it's not intended to replace professional medical advice.

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Speaker 2: We always recommend consulting a professional for personalized advice tailored

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Speaker 2: to your individual needs, especially when trying new products or

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Speaker 2: looking into skin treatments. All right, let's get into it

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Speaker 2: with doctor Natasha Cook.

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Speaker 1: You are such beautiful skin, but how Let's start with

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Speaker 1: the basics.

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Speaker 2: How does winter weather actually impact the skin and why

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Speaker 2: I'm often believer like that.

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Speaker 3: We shouldn't piggyback people into skin types per se, because

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Speaker 3: our skin type is constantly changing with our environment. For example,

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Speaker 3: if when the snowy mountains in winter where we've got

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Speaker 3: low humidity, we'll draw most through out of the skin

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Speaker 3: and our skin type becomes drier. If we're hanging out

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Speaker 3: in Singapore and it's highly humidity and there's more moisture

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Speaker 3: in the environment, which then feeds back into the skin,

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Speaker 3: we're going to feel like we're more oily, more moist

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Speaker 3: and we need less moisturizers. So you need adaptive skin

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Speaker 3: care right that can literally carver you from any environment

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Speaker 3: and anywhere you're traveling to and depending on what the

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Speaker 3: weather's doing. So winter is an absolute deal breaker in

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Speaker 3: affecting your skin, and your skin health needs will change

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Speaker 3: when you're in drier, colder environments and seasons.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same for everyone, Like there's no way

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Speaker 1: everyone yeah, and it's.

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Speaker 3: You're super super super deeper oily, then maybe you just

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Speaker 3: get away with just not needing much.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's not many people that are that oily.

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Speaker 3: No, no, And so people can actually get skin conditions

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Speaker 3: in winter that they don't get in summer. It's all

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Speaker 3: about not having enough moisturizer in the skin, not therefore

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Speaker 3: providing a strong and protected barrier. If you get dried

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Speaker 3: out skin, you get barried ys function. If your barrier

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Speaker 3: is not really fortified and hydrated and like bricks and

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Speaker 3: wall with a fresh print job on it, and if

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Speaker 3: the paint job is cracking and coming off because the

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Speaker 3: dryness and the barrier is microscopically broken, anything with its fabrics,

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Speaker 3: water soaps, you know, perspiration start getting in to the skin,

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Speaker 3: creates inflammation, gets itchy, then we get rash, and then

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Speaker 3: the whole snowball effect kicks.

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Speaker 2: In and people are probably using like really harsh actives

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Speaker 2: and that's just making it worse.

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Speaker 3: And then sometimes if your skin gets to that point

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Speaker 3: and it feels sensitive, it feels dry, it feels freaky,

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Speaker 3: you back off gentle cleansing, lots of moisturizing, replenish the barrier,

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Speaker 3: then slowly reintroduce your actives.

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Speaker 2: In what's the wildest myth you've heard about winter skin

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Speaker 2: or something you hear every year in winter that you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: for goodness sake.

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Speaker 1: It's just not true. Winter skin, winter skin, winter skin.

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Speaker 3: This is hard because I think the main thing is

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Speaker 3: people just they just don't think they need moisturizer. It's

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Speaker 3: like or sunscreen. Winter, Yes, hot, it's a huge one.

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Speaker 3: Actually it's like I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: In fact, winter can be the worst time to get

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Speaker 3: exposure from sun because you don't have the bio feedback

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Speaker 3: mechanism of getting hot or feeling burnt. You think you're fine,

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Speaker 3: which means you stay out longer, which means you're getting

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Speaker 3: more cumulative UV and environment damage, which means it can

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Speaker 3: be worse for you. I getting a full sense of security,

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Speaker 3: so that belief that you don't need a spear from

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Speaker 3: cloudy days and actually you can get more penetration of

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Speaker 3: UV raised.

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Speaker 1: With cloud cover then without the cover.

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Speaker 2: Worst burns of my teenage years was on the beach

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Speaker 2: on a cloudy day.

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Speaker 3: There you go because normally if you get hot you

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Speaker 3: seek shade right because and then if your skins don't

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Speaker 3: feel the heat, you then go into protect it.

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Speaker 1: It's like really really really really pale, pale.

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Speaker 3: People like the beautiful the colquipments of the world have

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Speaker 3: been super sensible because if they go out in the sun,

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Speaker 3: they burn really quickly, so they just stay out at

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Speaker 3: all costs.

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Speaker 1: And then they have fantastic skin for longer.

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Speaker 2: Take us through an ingredient audit that ubs can do

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Speaker 2: at home to see if their routine is set up

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Speaker 2: to support their skin during winter, because often the products

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Speaker 2: you're already using have what you need.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, I guess the mos thing in winter skin

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Speaker 3: is like again, don't avoid the harsh cleansing right and

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Speaker 3: particularly overwashing in the shower, and then you might moisturize

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Speaker 3: in someone. Don't forget the body skin like the body

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Speaker 3: is the new face. Like we realize we probably forget

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Speaker 3: about looking up to body. It also needs hydrating similar

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Speaker 3: to what you on the face, because we do know

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Speaker 3: there are studies that have shown regular use of moisturizers

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Speaker 3: that help the barrier on the body, reduce absorption of

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Speaker 3: animation and pollution, etc. So our internal inflammatory mediators, which

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Speaker 3: is inter lucin six, is one of that you can

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Speaker 3: measure and sereactive protein go down when we moisturize our

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Speaker 3: body skin, so it's important to look after it and

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Speaker 3: especially in winter, not using anything foamy and soapy in

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Speaker 3: the shower, which obviously we're trained to do because I

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Speaker 3: think we think we're really dirty, So you know there's

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Speaker 3: some great sort of like low sefactant oil based body washes.

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Speaker 3: You can get pharmacya levels that also have some things

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Speaker 3: like oatmeal which is natural anti inflammatory in it. Then

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Speaker 3: as soon as you get out and when the skin's damp,

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Speaker 3: lock that moisture in and whack body moisturizer over the top.

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Speaker 3: Face is the same thing. Foams are a no, scrubs

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Speaker 3: are a no. And you might have to convert to

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Speaker 3: something a little bit heavier that you normally wouldn't use

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Speaker 3: in the more humid, warmer months of the year. What

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Speaker 3: I have, I just make two because I say these

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Speaker 3: two will take you anywhere through all seasons and reasons

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Speaker 3: and around the world. And I say you might want

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Speaker 3: to double moisturize in the mornings, so you might put

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Speaker 3: your normal light one on it you're doing some, but

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Speaker 3: then you might put your night cream over and ringing

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Speaker 3: over the top. That simple methodology can be an absolute

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Speaker 3: game changer without necessarily have to going out and buy

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Speaker 3: another product.

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Speaker 2: What about your body skin Like, I'm really good at

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Speaker 2: moisturizing at night after my shower, but not so good

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Speaker 2: I don't often remember to do it in the morning. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but kind of by your logic, then we should because

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Speaker 2: you're about to go out into the elements.

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Speaker 1: It's really funny.

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Speaker 3: I had a lovely patient the other day, and I

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Speaker 3: mean she's in the early fifties and her body skin

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Speaker 3: was mac.

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Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, this is great.

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Speaker 3: She said yeah, because I bought your lotion and you

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Speaker 3: said hydrated skins always better. Now I most urize every day,

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Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, it really does work, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: She's totally so for skin preservation and skin healthy, simple

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Speaker 3: methodologies that we use for our face we should apply

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Speaker 3: to our body. But it's like if we're not trained

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Speaker 3: and we're not organized. So that's why it's really good

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Speaker 3: just to have your counter in your bathroom center so

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Speaker 3: you can literally go pump ump on, we go out

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Speaker 3: the door, and it becomes habit and routine, because consistency

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Speaker 3: and repetition is key. Yeah, more than like you brush

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Speaker 3: your tea totally. Consistency is more important than complexity.

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Speaker 2: Let's say a client comes in and they want to

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Speaker 2: know if they should be making changes to their routine

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Speaker 2: for winter. What would you tell them to not bother

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Speaker 2: with and to bother with so it could be lifestyle

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Speaker 2: factors make up anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Okay.

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Speaker 3: So a common snow that presents in winter is sensitivity,

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Speaker 3: particularly around the eyes, right because the eyelid skin is

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Speaker 3: thinner and it is more sensitive, so it will tend

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Speaker 3: to show the signs of the harshness of the winter

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Speaker 3: environment and the dryness early and also kind of lip areas.

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Speaker 3: So often I'll compound up something that's got a lot

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Speaker 3: of glisering in it and it's more of an exclusive.

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Speaker 1: Style oatment based moisturizer.

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Speaker 3: Get compounded and I'll say add this in morning night

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Speaker 3: to those sensitive areas within your normal routine. They usually

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Speaker 3: get better pretty quickly, and I tell them to sustain

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Speaker 3: that in winter.

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Speaker 1: That's a nice little tip.

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Speaker 3: Secondly, if that's super inflamed, I will add a short

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Speaker 3: term anti inflammatory steroid oitment to basically reduce the inflammation,

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Speaker 3: but also use the more INTENSI even rich glitterin and

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Speaker 3: multifying ointment based product together to switch off the inflammation

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Speaker 3: while the glitterin and mulsifying ointment product is drawing the

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Speaker 3: barrier function. Then once the inflammation's gone the barrier's back,

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Speaker 3: I drop out the steroid ointment, which usually happens within

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Speaker 3: one to two weeks. Sometimes people see beneficial within a

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Speaker 3: two day. I'm like, do it for released a week.

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Speaker 3: I want your skin to be perfect remission. I want

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Speaker 3: that barrier toy back to its natural skin health. Then

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Speaker 3: we can start reintroducing some of the other things like

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Speaker 3: your make ups, new things you all the using. So

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Speaker 3: it's like having a break and a breather to bring

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Speaker 3: back the skin health. Because if we think we're there

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Speaker 3: and we're not, we then end up being on this

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Speaker 3: vicious circle of reflaring the skin. So doing a really

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Speaker 3: simple concentrated restorative remission base for one to two weeks

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Speaker 3: with those couple of tips, I can usually get the

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Speaker 3: skin back to total high functioning your normal skin. And

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Speaker 3: then I teach them how to look after their skin

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Speaker 3: moving forwards with the right moisturizing techniques to survive winter, but.

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Speaker 1: Then also to be able to sustain They make up

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Speaker 1: some things I like to wear.

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Speaker 2: Single winter, except last year when I discovered this new

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Speaker 2: lip product, But every single winter, generally without fail, at

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Speaker 2: some point my lip will split on both or one side.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and then in the corners yes.

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Speaker 2: And then it just consistently splits because you're constantly moving

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Speaker 2: your mouth and it is really really painful.

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Speaker 1: You can't really see. It's terrible, no, and it's really cold.

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Speaker 3: It's called angular colitis, so angular because it's the corner

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Speaker 3: is the mouth colitis inflammation of the lips, so inflammation

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Speaker 3: of the lip in the corners of the mouth, and

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Speaker 3: then what ends up happening saliva gets caught in there

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Speaker 3: than the mechanical and then it just accelerates. So really

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Speaker 3: good barrier restorative barms plus a minus. Sometimes then get

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Speaker 3: a little secondary bacterial infection, so a little topical antibody

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Speaker 3: ointment mixed maybe with an antiflammatory steroid ointment I'll use,

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Speaker 3: I fix it. And then they go on to maintain

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Speaker 3: it with a more enriched, thicker barrier repair ointment to

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Speaker 3: preserve and prevent it recurring.

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Speaker 1: That is a super common problem that we see a lot.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and it is painful, it's annoying, and can

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Speaker 3: get secondary infected and if not looked after properly early,

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Speaker 3: and they're not maintained because you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people think, oh yeah, and I've seen some practitioners just

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Speaker 3: prescribe the antibodypointment or prescribe the steroid, but they're not

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Speaker 3: looking at the foundations of then the non prescriptive barrier

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Speaker 3: pair ointment that one fixes it, but then it keeps

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Speaker 3: the skin healthy so we don't get recurrence of the

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Speaker 3: problem again. And that's like what I always say to

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Speaker 3: my patients. I need to make you a recipe of life.

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Speaker 3: It's not just a prescription. But then we've got to

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Speaker 3: look at the foundations and then how we're going to

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Speaker 3: maintain so you do not get these problems again.

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Speaker 2: Generally speaking, are there any skin treatments that are optimal

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Speaker 2: to try during the winter months? As an example, I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking this winter, I want to get laser on my.

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Speaker 1: Chest to try to reduce amazing.

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Speaker 2: I know that last episode that we had you on

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Speaker 2: we were talking about once you've got pigmentar or malasma,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of it. I'm not sure if mine is

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Speaker 2: pigmentation or malasma, but I'm.

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Speaker 3: Hoping that I see chest skins fundamental sun inducee pigmentation yep.

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Speaker 3: So to be environmentally induced hormonal pigment on the chest

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Speaker 3: would be super rare, which is malasma. Malasma is a

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Speaker 3: tricky diagnosis. A lot of operators out there think they

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Speaker 3: can diagnose it. I mean, really, it's defined by biopsy

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Speaker 3: but clinical acumen because everyone thinks brown is all equal,

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Speaker 3: like it's not like not all skin is equal, and

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Speaker 3: also not all pigment is equal. And there's about four

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Speaker 3: to five different elements of different types of pigmented patterns

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Speaker 3: we can see and lesions including melanoma that you need

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Speaker 3: to be able to diagnose before you can match appropriate

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Speaker 3: pathology to the right technology. And sometimes it's a mix

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Speaker 3: of technologies to get pigment in different areas right. And

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Speaker 3: that's where I mean, I guess at the tertiary level

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Speaker 3: where we sit in now clinic as a dermatologist. It's

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Speaker 3: also experts also had all these training. We know what

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Speaker 3: things will be the optimal choice for the right patient

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Speaker 3: and their pathology, rather than you've got one or two machines.

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Speaker 3: It's a one size fit or approach. I think that's

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Speaker 3: where it can be tricky that patients and clients might

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Speaker 3: get the wrong advice into institutions and its people that

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Speaker 3: have different levels of education. So when it comes to

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Speaker 3: pigment and treatment in the winter, it's winter's a great

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Speaker 3: time when you've got low UV right, so you've got

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Speaker 3: low UV, the chance of the pigment getting activated and

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Speaker 3: your results lasting longer. Oh higher, right, we want our

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Speaker 3: skin looks better in winter when we're not outdoors in summer.

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Speaker 3: And you only need a couple of percentage of V

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Speaker 3: once you've already developed pigment to reactivate it. You need

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Speaker 3: a lot of chronic cumulative exposure to program it to

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Speaker 3: make pigment because babies and little kids don't have pigmentation.

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Speaker 3: Then once you've got it, those little melanocytes are now

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Speaker 3: planned and programmed that they will respond very rapidly to

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Speaker 3: little bits of V despite wearing a SPF, which I'm

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Speaker 3: a double SPF fan. If you really want to protect

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Speaker 3: and preserve issues with pigmentation, winter's amazing time low UV levels.

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Speaker 3: We all tend to hibernate in winter anyway, We're not

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Speaker 3: going to a shed and great for body because you're covered, right,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, treatments for skin rejuvenation, pigmentation face body everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Really Definitely, I'm more busier in the winter months of

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Speaker 3: the year that I am in the summer.

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Speaker 2: So you think that people, if they do want to

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Speaker 2: go in, they should probably just go speak to their

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Speaker 2: dermatologist to get the referral from your GP.

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Speaker 1: Go speak to someone, yes about what's right and get diagnosed.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really important thing.

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Speaker 3: Rather than self diagnosing, yeah, or maybe being somebody who

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Speaker 3: doesn't have that clinical acumen or capacity. And they people

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Speaker 3: can get sold some treatments that actually wann't the right

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Speaker 3: fit for their problem, and then one or two things happen.

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Speaker 1: They either get a bad outcome or they get no

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Speaker 1: results because it was the wrong choice.

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Speaker 3: So making sure we match an understand pathology and get

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Speaker 3: the right technologies, and sometimes you need several technologies in

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Speaker 3: the one sitting, which is what we do, so we

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Speaker 3: get beautiful even results. And I can pick this machine

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Speaker 3: for the len tigos or the fixed sunspots of dellsians.

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Speaker 3: They might need like little device appeals them out. If

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Speaker 3: it's background blotchy pigment. I can use BBL broadband light

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Speaker 3: well is IPL styles if they've got increased vascula chre

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Speaker 3: because usually that will sit in the same areas because

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Speaker 3: vessels grow with UV exposure damage as well. I can

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Speaker 3: want vastcular so I can do a really comprehensive multiple

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Speaker 3: delity treatment to get beautiful even results in their skin.

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Speaker 1: I had to find the liner in my bag. What's

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Speaker 1: the what products do you personally use in your winter routine.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean this is extremely subconscious bias, but I

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Speaker 3: use everything I make.

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Speaker 1: So that's okay. If you didn't, I know.

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Speaker 3: Well if I didn't, and if I couldn't, it is better.

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Speaker 3: I'd either go and make it or I would stop

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Speaker 3: making things I actually think are really good for the skin.

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Speaker 3: And I've spent twenty something years doing it. And I

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Speaker 3: was not just you know, studying medicine and then getting

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Speaker 3: on to germ, but I was a victim of the industry.

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Speaker 3: I did a termine Harvard University in neto chronology in

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Speaker 3: my early twenties, and of course back then skincare was

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Speaker 3: heaps cheaper and there was more stuff you get in

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Speaker 3: the US, and so I went to Sachs in Boston like,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, I'm buying you know, this cleanser, this tona,

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Speaker 3: this neck cream, this iron cream.

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Speaker 1: I'm in twenty one, just seriously, and neck cream at

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Speaker 1: twenty one. Oh yeah, they and the ICRA and they

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Speaker 1: sold it all too.

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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, and it's cheapy here than in Australia,

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Speaker 3: and I guess once. Then a couple of years later,

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Speaker 3: when I got into the dermatology training scheme, and I

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Speaker 3: was reading Wolverton, which is an amazing dermatological farmer colleague detext.

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Speaker 1: I was obsessed because I loved the science behind it.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, Like, you know, some of these other

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Speaker 3: brands have got these h Night serians for two ondred

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Speaker 3: something dollars, but it's got point one percent of the

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Speaker 3: fruit acids in it and you need five to ten.

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Speaker 1: We have a problem.

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Speaker 3: And then things that were like kind of had things

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Speaker 3: in concentrations that worked, were in these old school, felt

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Speaker 3: like perkins Pace style non aesthetic formulas that were.

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Speaker 1: Purely glycolic acid.

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Speaker 3: There are the better options, but they sort of work,

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Speaker 3: they could be irritating, and so I kind of saw

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Speaker 3: this thing like I am not just adopted becoming a derm.

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Speaker 3: I'm female. I like having healthy skin. I like things

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Speaker 3: that feel good. I don't want complicated, Like there's a

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00:16:00,994 --> 00:16:02,874
Speaker 3: real gap in this market to make things that highly

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Speaker 3: affect you simple, easy to use, and feel good.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I did.

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Speaker 3: I started with three things and then slowly built over

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Speaker 3: the last twenty something years. So yeah, so my winter routine,

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Speaker 3: what I do do wrong? I still do my three

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Speaker 3: step AM, three step PM. I'll still do my treatment

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Speaker 3: HABHA treatment once a fortnight. However, I double hydrate in

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Speaker 3: the morning, so I use the lighter moisturizer, then I

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Speaker 3: put the hydration over the top, and then I use

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Speaker 3: my niceinamide with vitamin C morning and night, because you know,

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00:16:32,074 --> 00:16:35,714
Speaker 3: nice cinamide is really good to enhance natural sermi production,

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00:16:35,874 --> 00:16:39,754
Speaker 3: which is a great natural moisturizing factor to increase hydration

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Speaker 3: in the skin and strengthen the barrier. So when we've

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Speaker 3: got higher sensitivity and dryness, I double that up and

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00:16:44,834 --> 00:16:47,914
Speaker 3: then I double moisturize. I still use the same cleanses,

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00:16:48,034 --> 00:16:50,194
Speaker 3: same as beef, same everything else. The main thing is

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00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:55,434
Speaker 3: more moisturizer, more hydration, and I do the enriched one

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Speaker 3: morning and night.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty similar. I don't.

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Speaker 2: I just add maybe a bit more moisture. It's not

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Speaker 2: that I change heaps doesn't.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to spend more, you just have to

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Speaker 3: use more and use more of things that literally combat

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Speaker 3: the problem. Problem is low humidity, air conditioning, overheating. So

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Speaker 3: more ani inflammatories you probably already got, and then more

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00:17:14,434 --> 00:17:17,954
Speaker 3: moisturizer and do it twice. My name's on it, which

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00:17:17,994 --> 00:17:19,714
Speaker 3: I think is a healthy thing. I'm not a derm

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00:17:19,754 --> 00:17:21,354
Speaker 3: that kind of works for lots of farmer companies. You

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Speaker 3: don't even know what's going down behind the scenes that

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Speaker 3: you know, some of these farmer companies pay for their

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Speaker 3: social media platforms if they so more products. So if

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Speaker 3: anyboy says to me, like, you know, you've got a

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Speaker 3: brand at your bias, I said, no, my name's on it.

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Speaker 1: It's really transparent. You know exactly where I'm at with it. Yeah, right.

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Speaker 3: And also no confusion or delusion or deceptive a misleading

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Speaker 3: conduct to you.

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Speaker 1: Your name's on it, so your entire you don't. So

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Speaker 1: I'm very big incredibility.

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Speaker 3: I'm very big in trust, and I'm very preserving my

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Speaker 3: reputation because reputations take ages to make and moments.

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Speaker 2: Seconds to break exactly. That's why I always think, like

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Speaker 2: when I see different criticisms for different I'm like, no

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Speaker 2: one is going to put there when they've spent decades

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Speaker 2: in their reputation at the time, They're not going to

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Speaker 2: do something that's going to ruin me.

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Speaker 1: To put my name on it was like dragging an

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Speaker 1: elephant around the football field.

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Speaker 3: Come on. But then I saw a lot of these

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Speaker 3: pseudo doctor brands. I saw a lot of other things

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Speaker 3: that were pretending to be scientific, and they weren't. I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: I am the real deal, so I probably should back myself,

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Speaker 3: and twenty years later, here we are.

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Speaker 1: But yes, so I do use all of it. I

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Speaker 1: use extra moisturizer.

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Speaker 3: Then if I'm getting like those problems you talked about,

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Speaker 3: I will use something very basic that's looked gliterin and

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00:18:29,314 --> 00:18:32,034
Speaker 3: compounded and mulsifying. But I find if I use the

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00:18:32,074 --> 00:18:34,914
Speaker 3: double moisturizing prevention technique, I don't have to. And then

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Speaker 3: I also do try and do treatments. Treatments do not substitute.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of naysays go like that,

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Speaker 3: you must do thousands of lasers?

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Speaker 1: Why do some?

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Speaker 3: I'm into prevention, but if my routine is not matching

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00:18:45,194 --> 00:18:47,274
Speaker 3: my clinical therapies, it's not going to sustain.

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Speaker 2: A treatment is like you can have them, but it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like going to a really hard gym class

404
00:18:53,114 --> 00:18:55,034
Speaker 2: or having a personal trainer. I love that, but they're

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Speaker 2: not working out any other day ever. That is exactly

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Speaker 2: my analogy to my patients.

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Speaker 3: I go, it's like going to the gym, getting really fit,

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00:19:01,874 --> 00:19:03,834
Speaker 3: then stopping and things, and then eating four times.

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Speaker 2: A year and that's your treatment. But you're not going

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Speaker 2: to be fit. No, we're not gonna have good key.

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Speaker 3: What you do in the gym has to match what

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Speaker 3: you're doing at home. It has to match what you're meeting.

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Speaker 3: And consistency and simplicity is key. And here repeat well,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much, appreciate your knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, this has been fun, and thank you for

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Speaker 1: the fantastic questions. I really enjoyed it. And that is

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Speaker 1: all the time that we have for today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us today, doctor Natasha Cook,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for listening to you, beauty.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you follow us on Instagram and TikTok and

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Speaker 2: you can watch this and more episodes on our amazing

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel. Get over there and subscribe for now. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for joining me and see you next time.

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Speaker 1: Bye.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We

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Speaker 2: have recorded this podcast on the Gadigol people of the

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Speaker 2: Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past

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Speaker 2: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and

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Speaker 2: Torres Strait Islander cultures.

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Speaker 3: Just