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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Do you two inundated by messages? As I got a

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Speaker 2: few from women wearing leggings feeling really victimized by Monday's

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Speaker 2: show obsessed. There was a video of a woman exercising

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Speaker 2: and she's wearing her headphones and she's like, personally victimized

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Speaker 2: by today's MoMA Mia out loud, and she flashed her

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Speaker 2: phone down as she was wearing her leggings, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, it's okay.

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Speaker 1: Can I be clear that I was extremely uncoor in

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Speaker 1: high school and take storial advice from me.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the twenty.

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Speaker 3: Sixth of November. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Amelia Last and.

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Speaker 4: I am Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And here's what's on our agenda for today. What color

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Speaker 2: is your aura? I'm just asking for Ariana Grande. Also,

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Speaker 2: school reunions.

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Speaker 3: Who are they for? Why do we go?

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Speaker 2: Amelia went recently and had a realization and the women

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Speaker 2: quiet quitting their husbands.

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Speaker 3: But first, Jesse Stevens, we are.

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Speaker 4: Entering into the social season. It's December, literally next week,

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Speaker 4: and I am in three group chats where I'm being

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Speaker 4: asked what plate I am bringing, and I have discovered

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Speaker 4: that at thirty four years old, I need a plate.

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Speaker 4: So I'm envious of people who have like an iconic

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Speaker 4: cake that they.

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Speaker 5: Bring everyone goes. You bring that flowerless a dip. It's

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Speaker 5: often a like an onion dip or something.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I need a tiny bit more detail

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Speaker 2: about these groups you're in, all right, that people are

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Speaker 2: talking about plates?

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Speaker 3: All right, give me something. What's happening?

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Speaker 5: One is this weekend. I still haven't replied because I'm panicking.

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's family gathering, friend this is friends,

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Speaker 2: friends gathering, and you've all been asked to bring a thing.

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Speaker 2: Everyone brings plate, and no one's policing the thing, so

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Speaker 2: you could end up with fourteen cakes or fourteen Well.

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Speaker 4: We're in a group chat, so I think we're meant

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Speaker 4: to like follow the Yeah, a self pleasing situation.

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Speaker 5: Christmas Day? What are you bringing? Right right right there?

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Speaker 4: And I'm just waiting for someone to tell me to

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Speaker 4: bring the bread rolls that.

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Speaker 3: I can do.

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Speaker 2: And also on Christmas Day? Did you used to not

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Speaker 2: have to bring anything? But now you've reached an age

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Speaker 2: where you have to bring something?

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Speaker 3: Is that how it works?

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Speaker 1: Got it?

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Speaker 3: Got it?

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Speaker 2: Got it.

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Speaker 4: I think something happens around the age of thirty four

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Speaker 4: where everyone goes you're not at a kid's table anymore.

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Speaker 5: I bring something, contribute exactly, Okay, got it?

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Speaker 4: Look to complicate matters. I read an article in The

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Speaker 4: Atlantic this week that says that your signature dish says.

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Speaker 5: A lot about you. Oh gosh, right.

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Speaker 4: So, cheese board people very type A people. They are

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Speaker 4: natural curators. They are highly strung, little bit anal.

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Speaker 3: It's really easy to do cheese board. I sometimes do cheese.

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Speaker 5: No, but don't think you're doing it right now?

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Speaker 1: Are you writing the name of the cheese in a

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Speaker 1: little piece of chalk in a whimsical fine?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Oh no, then people are mad.

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Speaker 3: You offered to bring the bringing some cheese and a

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Speaker 3: plastic bag.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, no, you have to spend three hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: and have the fancy crackers that don't break when you

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Speaker 4: put the cheese on them.

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Speaker 5: Did people caretakers? They like to take care.

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Speaker 4: You have everyone right, Salad people, Holly, there's a rumor

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Speaker 4: that you're a salad person. Apparently that makes you a

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Speaker 4: sunny optimist with a slight moral superiority complex.

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Speaker 1: This is.

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Speaker 5: Now apparently desert people want applause.

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Speaker 4: They're the people who need the fuss, which I think

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Speaker 4: is very true. I need for my dish, Amelia, do

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Speaker 4: you have a dish?

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Speaker 1: You have sent me into a spiral of despair because

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Speaker 1: I'm very good at mixing the gronies, very.

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Speaker 4: Very Apparently that means you're like fun, your social you're

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Speaker 4: the life of the party.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, I'm very lazy, so that works.

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Speaker 5: No, I like that. Do you have a dish?

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Speaker 4: Okay, I am known for bringing my aldi spannicopeter.

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Speaker 2: Oh do you turn me on to that? That is

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Speaker 2: Tuesday night dinner? And last night, yeah it was Tuesday.

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Speaker 5: It was a cheese that I exactly right.

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Speaker 3: What do you think that says about you?

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Speaker 4: I think it says that I am cheap, that I

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Speaker 4: am lazy. The problem with that dish is that I

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Speaker 4: need an oven, right like I often eat it up there.

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Speaker 5: But apparently that's a no. No oh yeah, that's way

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Speaker 5: too in.

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Speaker 2: So the reason why it could be genius, if you're

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Speaker 2: a slightly different kind of person, take it out of

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Speaker 2: the box. You let it softened to frost a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and then you put it in a big topp ofware

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Speaker 2: container on like a clean tea towel or something, and

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Speaker 2: it looks like you made it.

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Speaker 3: And then you get to the house and you go,

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Speaker 3: I've just got to whack this in the oven for five.

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Speaker 4: Do you think that it's frowned upon to bring something

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Speaker 4: that's frozen or Once I was told to bring a dish,

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Speaker 4: I didn't understand the criteria.

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Speaker 5: And I brought a cuscuss thing that I bought from coals.

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Speaker 5: But that's okay. No, No, there was no cutlery and

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Speaker 5: there were no plates. Oh so it was like, is

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Speaker 5: this a picnic?

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Speaker 4: It was kind of like a picnic vibe, and everything

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Speaker 4: was like a bruiseshetter. It was meant to be fingerfood

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Speaker 4: and no one could eat it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I've got a sort the best dinner party I

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Speaker 1: ever went to the hostess of the dessert. She bought

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Speaker 1: out some cookies and some big tubs of ice cream,

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Speaker 1: and she said, make your own ice cream sandwiches.

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Speaker 5: Did you think she made the cookies?

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Speaker 1: She hadn't made the cookies.

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Speaker 2: Mean, it's very Megan. I've been watching her holidays.

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Speaker 3: But of course, what's that she did?

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Speaker 2: Well, Oh, she's got so many, But this is I

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Speaker 2: want you to take in some of her hostessing tips,

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Speaker 2: because that's next on your agenda. Jesse is Oh, Christmas

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Speaker 2: is at Jesse and Luca's house. Yeah, yes, she says,

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Speaker 2: always answered the daor to your dinner party dressed all

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Speaker 2: fancy but barefoot, because that suggests, oh, I'm not quite ready.

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Speaker 3: Oh I'm a little bit. I'm a little bit with

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Speaker 3: a bit of it.

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Speaker 2: It makes it like you're all dollied up, but you

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Speaker 2: haven't had time to put your shoes on.

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Speaker 3: So it puts people at ease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she except for Princess Kate when she

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Speaker 1: showed up and Meghan had done exactly that perfect.

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Speaker 4: It also signals to people, I want you to make

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Speaker 4: your shoes off. It makes an awkward thing about whether

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Speaker 4: or not they She was like, oh.

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Speaker 2: As you've just said, put an apron over your evening dress.

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Speaker 6: I love it anyway.

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Speaker 2: But she also says that you should do things like

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Speaker 2: that cookies, ice cream, or you know, like lay out

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Speaker 2: people's break like here's some yogurt, here's some fruit, because

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Speaker 2: people like to make their own things.

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Speaker 3: The way they like them. Oh, you're you're right, that.

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Speaker 5: Was what's salad?

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Speaker 2: This is very boring, but it's actually my favorite thing

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Speaker 2: to eat in the world. So the other reason I.

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Speaker 3: Take it is because you want to say neat it.

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Speaker 2: I've been making exactly the same salad since I was fourteen,

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Speaker 2: which is like some kind of grain like.

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Speaker 3: Brown rice, quemoa. Yeah, of course course, did you know

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Speaker 3: what keemwa was?

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Speaker 2: That was definitely rice. Keema didn't exist, only an ancient grain.

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Speaker 1: Land Screamline came after jenne.

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Speaker 2: J definitely pre dates, but some kind of grain chopped

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Speaker 2: up tomatoes. I love to tomatoes, my favorite thing to eat.

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Speaker 2: And lots of herbs, so like basil, parsley, mint, whatever,

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Speaker 2: lemon juice, feather cheese, bang bit of onion.

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Speaker 4: And do you make up before you get it or

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Speaker 4: do you bring the bits and then do you make

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Speaker 4: it in the kitchen?

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Speaker 2: You know, I make it before I get there, but

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Speaker 2: I don't put the lemon juice and the olive oil

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Speaker 2: on it until you get there because it goes soggy.

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Speaker 2: But I make that in a big bowl and you

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Speaker 2: take that and it looks pretty and it looks fresh,

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Speaker 2: but it took nothing.

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Speaker 3: It took nothing, all right, I sound like began Jersey.

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Speaker 1: I think instead of bringing a dish, what you can

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Speaker 1: promise is sparkling conversation.

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Speaker 3: You can middle.

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Speaker 1: Did you see that? Cobe your enthusiasm about middling. The

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Speaker 1: most important thing that you can bring to a dinner

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Speaker 1: party gathering is middle energy. That means someone who sits

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the crowd and make sure that

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Speaker 1: the conversation is always interesting and flowing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I can bring that, just middle and

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Speaker 2: do that and start some fights.

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Speaker 3: To keep things spicy.

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Speaker 4: There is an essay published in The Cut that is

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Speaker 4: currently going viral. It is called The Women Quietly Quitting

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Speaker 4: their Husbands. Monica Corcoran. Harold writes, rather than deal with

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Speaker 4: the drama of divorce, more and more women over forty

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Speaker 4: are choosing to check out. I assumed that this would

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Speaker 4: be a story about money, that it would be we

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Speaker 4: can't afford to get divorced anymore, But that was not

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Speaker 4: what the author found at all. Really, these women say

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Speaker 4: that they just don't have time. They're subconsciously uncoupling, maybe

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Speaker 4: waiting for the kids to leave home, And maybe that's

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Speaker 4: not entirely new. She writes, about remembering as a kid,

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Speaker 4: there was a year where her mother didn't speak to

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Speaker 4: her father, and then he turned around one day and said,

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Speaker 4: is there a problem?

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Speaker 3: I love, isn't a problem?

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Speaker 1: Probably didn't even say in a passive aggressive way. He

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, is there a problem?

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Speaker 2: I feel like I haven't heard from me lately. But

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Speaker 2: what does it look like? What does quite quitting your

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Speaker 2: marriage to look like?

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Speaker 4: Yes, it looks like some people don't live together, so

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Speaker 4: they're living on opposite sides of the country, moving so quiet,

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Speaker 4: that's not so quiet, living or sleeping in a guest bedroom,

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Speaker 4: not really talking, definitely not going out together or anything

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Speaker 4: like that.

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Speaker 5: Now will open it up.

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Speaker 1: There's an anecdote in there about how again the author's parents.

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Speaker 1: She remembers that she would have to go to her

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Speaker 1: dad on Saturdays and say, do you have any dry

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Speaker 1: cleaning mums about to go?

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Speaker 5: That's middling, that's the child.

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Speaker 2: She's been unpacking a lot of this shit in therapy

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Speaker 2: for a long time.

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Speaker 4: I want to know.

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Speaker 7: So.

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Speaker 4: Corcoran Harrold says that the dissatisfied wife isn't entirely new.

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Speaker 4: What is a little bit new is the normalization of

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Speaker 4: settling for being utterly dissatisfied and being quite open with

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Speaker 4: your mates about it, being like, I pay my husband,

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Speaker 4: but we're still married.

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Speaker 3: Holly.

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Speaker 5: Is this a phenomenon that you've noticed.

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Speaker 4: Holly, You've interviewed a lot of midlife women. I want

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Speaker 4: to know if they are quietly quitting their marriages.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and yes. This essay I loved it.

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Speaker 2: I loved it because it was very real, even though

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Speaker 2: it kind of dwells in this because it's American and

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Speaker 2: it's quite you know, coastal and all those things. But

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Speaker 2: there is so much truth in this essay. There's so

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Speaker 2: much truth. There's a quote in there which says marriage

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Speaker 2: is the world's most impossible endurance challenge.

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Speaker 3: Yep, And it does feel.

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Speaker 2: Like that sometimes because a lot of the people who

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Speaker 2: she's talking to in this article have been together for

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Speaker 2: twenty years plus.

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Speaker 3: So a long time.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we all know it's so well documented.

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Speaker 2: Desire wanes, we're attracted to new stimulus, like we you know,

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Speaker 2: all of those things are difficult. A lot of these

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Speaker 2: people will have been through raising kids to a point

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Speaker 2: at which they're not so desperately involved and bonded by

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Speaker 2: that activity anymore so that gives you a new like

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Speaker 2: sort of space to be apart from each other literally

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Speaker 2: and people who kind of they like each other. Fine,

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Speaker 2: not all the people in this article do, but they're

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Speaker 2: kind of like, I'm just done with pretending that I

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Speaker 2: want to watch your TV shows and I want to

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Speaker 2: listen to you talking about golf or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: I want to live my life now. And that is

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Speaker 2: an incredibly common midlife experience. And I interviewed this woman

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Speaker 2: for the last season of mid Monique van Tulder. She

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Speaker 2: had written a book called The grown Up Gap Year,

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Speaker 2: and her story wasn't typical because you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: certain amount of privilege involved that she was able to

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Speaker 2: literally leave her marriages for a period of time. But

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Speaker 2: what drove her to that point was all the things

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Speaker 2: I just said. Her kids had got to a teenage

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Speaker 2: point where they she'd kind of got them through the

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Speaker 2: HSC and they were still living at home, but they

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Speaker 2: didn't really need her.

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Speaker 3: Her husband was.

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Speaker 2: Not abusive or awful or anything like that, but he

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Speaker 2: was very caught up in his job and his life

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Speaker 2: and his stuff, and she was just like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: just done, And so she left for three months and

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Speaker 2: went to live somewhere else and went to travel around

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Speaker 2: and waited for them to notice. Basically waited for her

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Speaker 2: husband and sons to kind of.

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Speaker 5: Go oh, like, where's mom, where's mom?

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Speaker 2: And it took them a while to notice. And then

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Speaker 2: she said when she worked her way back to the relationship,

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Speaker 2: which she did, she said, the marriage in the relationship

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Speaker 2: has never been better because they've kind of re established

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Speaker 2: boundaries and rules that pushed her to that point. But

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Speaker 2: what was interesting to me is over and over again

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Speaker 2: in that conversation, she kept saying, men need to understand

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Speaker 2: that to avoid an expensive divorce, they need to X

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Speaker 2: Y Z. And I think that that's a large part

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Speaker 2: of this is very often men are blindsided in midlife.

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Speaker 2: They haven't really noticed that their partner is kind of

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Speaker 2: check everything and deciding whether or not they want to

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Speaker 2: keep going like this or not, and they haven't really noticed,

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Speaker 2: and by the time the woman comes to them and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: sometimes too late. And sometimes it's not whether or not

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Speaker 2: you can remodel that. But the other thing that is

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Speaker 2: interesting about the quiet quitting, I mean, I think there

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Speaker 2: are lots of interesting things about it. I think that

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Speaker 2: on one hand, it could be a season so just

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Speaker 2: like quiet quitting your job, you might be in the

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Speaker 2: same job for a long time but go through a

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Speaker 2: period of time where you're just like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you need something to happen to reinvigorate it. The

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Speaker 2: logical answer isn't leave your job. Is that maybe you've

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Speaker 2: quite quit and then maybe you lean back in, And

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Speaker 2: I think that can be true.

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Speaker 3: But the other piece is is that leaving, even.

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Speaker 2: If you can afford it, even if all of those

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Speaker 2: things are true, is incredibly brave and difficult and up

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Speaker 2: into your life in all kinds of ways, and not

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Speaker 2: everybody is up for that.

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Speaker 1: One question that I had reading this is what's new

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Speaker 1: about this that instead of staying together for the kids,

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Speaker 1: it's more about the fact that it's just simply logistically

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Speaker 1: too complicated and that people don't have time. Because this

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Speaker 1: is a generation, broadly speaking Gen X and Alder millennials

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Speaker 1: who had a lot of trauma around parents divorcing or

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Speaker 1: not divorcing, as the author's case may be, and then

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Speaker 1: have they decided that instead of staying together, they've just

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Speaker 1: decided that it's logistically too complicated.

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Speaker 3: What's the difference?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder if that's the case, and if there

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Speaker 4: is also not that it's status, but that being openly

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Speaker 4: dissatisfied with your job, or your marriage, or your house

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Speaker 4: or something in your life is kind of allowed now,

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Speaker 4: like have women always felt like this? Did our grandmothers?

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Speaker 4: Did our great grandmothers feel like this? But they weren't

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Speaker 4: allowed to say it out loud? And so now there's

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Speaker 4: a language around women sitting there at a dinner table

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Speaker 4: with their friends going I hate my husband because reading this.

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Speaker 5: I don't think you could read this and not recognize it.

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Speaker 4: And my question was whether or not it's a gender thing.

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Speaker 4: Is it that there's something going on with men that

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Speaker 4: they don't have the friendships entering midlife, that they are

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Speaker 4: not strengthening the muscle of communication, that women feel lonely

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Speaker 4: because they don't have someone to talk to, or is

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Speaker 4: this a dynamic that men and women.

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Speaker 5: Are both responsible.

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Speaker 2: I think that men also quite quit their marriage is.

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Speaker 5: All yeah, right, me too.

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Speaker 2: And one of the quotes in this that I pulled

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Speaker 2: out because it was so familiar to me and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people around me and women I talk to,

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Speaker 2: was that for women, this quote was passivity came up

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Speaker 2: again and again in my reporting. She writes, husbands tune

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Speaker 2: out their disenchanted wives, like Charlie Brown deflects the monotonous

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Speaker 2: drone of his school teacher. They make flimsy promises to

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Speaker 2: engage more on an emotional level. So women will often

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Speaker 2: go and say I need more, like can we do

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Speaker 2: date nights?

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Speaker 3: Can we go to therapy? What about couples yoga? What

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Speaker 3: about you know whatever?

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Speaker 2: I need you to vacuum empty the dishwasher, And it

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Speaker 2: says they make flimsy promises to engage more on an

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Speaker 2: emotional level, or to help out around the house. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they vacuum for a month or two, or act all

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Speaker 2: intrigued when a partner event's about an incapable colleague. But

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Speaker 2: eventually the extra credit effort falls by the wayside or

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Speaker 2: just doesn't feel like enough. And that I think that

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Speaker 2: men absolutely quite quick marriages too. Maybe they're having affairs,

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Speaker 2: maybe they're not. A lot of this isn't really about sex.

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Speaker 2: It's more about the compatibility or not of living with

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Speaker 2: one person for a really long time. And I think

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Speaker 2: that the question of what's new is I wonder if

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Speaker 2: it's about expectation. Yeah, because anyone who's been in a

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Speaker 2: relationship for a really long time knows that. Of course,

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Speaker 2: not every day you jump up and go like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I love our life together and you're the

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Speaker 2: most interesting person in the world and all those things,

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Speaker 2: But at what point is rubbing along? And sometimes as

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Speaker 2: a woman in this who says we started sleeping in

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Speaker 2: separate beds, which lots of couples do for lots of

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Speaker 2: very legitimate reasons, to do with kids, to do with snoring,

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Speaker 2: to do with work shifts, all those things. And then

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Speaker 2: suddenly it's like when the kids go to bed, I

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Speaker 2: go to my room and watch my shows, and he

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Speaker 2: goes to his room and watch his shows. And then

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Speaker 2: suddenly you realize you've had six months of that, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, I think that the expectation of like what's

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Speaker 2: okay to settle for in inverted commas is a conversation

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Speaker 2: we're more ready to have, and the answer to that

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Speaker 2: will be really different for different women.

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Speaker 4: And is it a rebellion against this push of marriage

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Speaker 4: is hard?

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Speaker 5: Marriage is hard.

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Speaker 4: We grew up I think Millennials and Gen X grew

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Speaker 4: up with it is something you need to work at,

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Speaker 4: like it was all about labor. And I wonder if

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Speaker 4: there was an interesting passage that sort of said marriage

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Speaker 4: isn't hard, it's actually really easy because you get married,

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Speaker 4: you get presents, you go on a honeymoon, it's lovely.

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Speaker 4: And then there's no performance plan, there's no manager, there's

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Speaker 4: no boss that comes in and says, you guys are

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Speaker 4: doing a bad job. You can just settle and stop

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Speaker 4: talking and fevery to each other if neither of you

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Speaker 4: want to leave. And so I wonder if it's just going.

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Speaker 4: Is marriage an adjective or is it a verb? Are

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Speaker 4: you married full stop? Or is it something you need

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like parenting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that you said that men quite quit too.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about that because my first thought

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Speaker 1: reading this was that men don't quiet quick marriages, They

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Speaker 1: loud quit marriages. So you think about like the stereotype

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Speaker 1: is sort of compare Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. Right,

395
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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos loud quit his marriage, and now he's still

396
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Speaker 1: loud quitting his marriage with his new marriage.

397
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Speaker 3: He's launting his.

398
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Speaker 1: Wealth, he's traveling the world with his new wife, making

399
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Speaker 1: it very clear that somehow he has both big divorced

400
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Speaker 1: energy but also loud quitting and now getting remarried. Energy

401
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Speaker 1: Bill Gates is a different example Melinda Gates French. Now,

402
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Speaker 1: Melinda French has talked about how she felt very alone

403
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Speaker 1: in the marriage, that it's very cliche initiated that separation

404
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Speaker 1: and divorce, and maybe Bill Gates quiet quit that marriage.

405
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Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's absolutely true. And I think that

406
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Speaker 2: even in the stereotype, a more like domestic stereotype of

407
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Speaker 2: a man going like she's always hon at me about

408
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Speaker 2: something and like he just wants this quiet life of

409
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Speaker 2: like just leave me alone, that is quiet quitting.

410
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Speaker 3: He's quiet quitting.

411
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Speaker 2: He's like this is fine for me because I just

412
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Speaker 2: get to do what I want really.

413
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Speaker 4: Which is also stonewalling, which is the word that means,

414
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Speaker 4: you know, they talk about the four horsemen that lead

415
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Speaker 4: to the end of a marriage, criticism, and this is

416
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Speaker 4: a dynamic that's sort of brought up in the article

417
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Speaker 4: where someone just stands up stonewalling and going I'm not

418
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Speaker 4: going to respond, I'm not going to engage when you

419
00:19:16,274 --> 00:19:18,513
Speaker 4: start talking, I get distracted and I walk out and

420
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Speaker 4: mow the lawn whatever it is. And I think that

421
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Speaker 4: quiet quitting is a mixture of all of those things

422
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Speaker 4: because the other one, of course, is contempt, and they

423
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Speaker 4: say that that's the biggest predictor of divorce. And you

424
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Speaker 4: can tell with a lot of this there's contempt and

425
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Speaker 4: there is it's like they don't want to be mean

426
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Speaker 4: to each other, so it's like you totally disengage.

427
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Speaker 2: Still really like the person, but it's just there's not

428
00:19:41,754 --> 00:19:44,914
Speaker 2: like your marriage isn't that much of an exciting thing.

429
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Speaker 2: I think that's in some ways the quiet quitting has

430
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Speaker 2: also led to we've talked about a little bit these

431
00:19:50,194 --> 00:19:53,954
Speaker 2: different models of long term monogamy now where maybe and

432
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Speaker 2: this is what happened to Monique van Toulde, who I

433
00:19:55,874 --> 00:19:58,434
Speaker 2: was talking about, is that when she returned to her marriage,

434
00:19:58,514 --> 00:20:01,434
Speaker 2: they kind of instituted a new way of.

435
00:20:01,314 --> 00:20:02,194
Speaker 3: What that looked like.

436
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Speaker 2: They're still together, they still like being together, but twice

437
00:20:05,034 --> 00:20:07,434
Speaker 2: a year they will take time apart to do things

438
00:20:07,474 --> 00:20:09,674
Speaker 2: that they want to do. And it's not christ this

439
00:20:09,834 --> 00:20:12,313
Speaker 2: time apart. It's just this is what works. And I

440
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Speaker 2: think that if you unpick all the expectations, and you know,

441
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Speaker 2: we were saying, what about this generation who likes to

442
00:20:17,754 --> 00:20:21,314
Speaker 2: talk about things a lot, is that maybe a positive

443
00:20:21,354 --> 00:20:24,674
Speaker 2: thing about this is it's allowing us to mess with

444
00:20:24,714 --> 00:20:26,793
Speaker 2: the model and go, no, I do love you and

445
00:20:26,914 --> 00:20:29,754
Speaker 2: like my marriage, but I can't just be in this

446
00:20:29,954 --> 00:20:34,914
Speaker 2: conventional model of you and I just us forever doing

447
00:20:34,914 --> 00:20:38,674
Speaker 2: the crossword when we're seventy, me still making dinner, you

448
00:20:38,794 --> 00:20:41,674
Speaker 2: still mowing the lawn, Like maybe that's enough, but what

449
00:20:41,794 --> 00:20:42,313
Speaker 2: if it's not?

450
00:20:42,634 --> 00:20:43,954
Speaker 3: But we don't want to break up.

451
00:20:44,114 --> 00:20:45,674
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point because you and I

452
00:20:45,674 --> 00:20:48,154
Speaker 1: were talking about this article before, and I mentioned to

453
00:20:48,194 --> 00:20:51,394
Speaker 1: you that in the comments everyone said how depressing they

454
00:20:51,474 --> 00:20:53,833
Speaker 1: found the article. It was all these comments saying, this

455
00:20:53,914 --> 00:20:56,033
Speaker 1: is the bleakest thing I've ever read. Why can't these

456
00:20:56,074 --> 00:20:56,754
Speaker 1: people talk.

457
00:20:56,594 --> 00:20:57,114
Speaker 3: To each other?

458
00:20:57,474 --> 00:20:59,594
Speaker 1: But then you pointed out that it doesn't have to

459
00:20:59,634 --> 00:21:02,634
Speaker 1: be forever. There are seasons for things. You don't have

460
00:21:02,674 --> 00:21:04,074
Speaker 1: to quiet quit forever.

461
00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:08,834
Speaker 2: See that's the salad in me, the optimistic with an

462
00:21:08,874 --> 00:21:11,154
Speaker 2: air superiority.

463
00:21:13,234 --> 00:21:13,914
Speaker 3: In a moment.

464
00:21:14,474 --> 00:21:15,833
Speaker 2: What color is your aura?

465
00:21:16,234 --> 00:21:17,554
Speaker 3: No, I don't really want.

466
00:21:17,514 --> 00:21:18,274
Speaker 1: Yours is green?

467
00:21:20,274 --> 00:21:23,114
Speaker 2: I don't really want to know. I just want to

468
00:21:23,114 --> 00:21:26,914
Speaker 2: talk about Ariana Cynthia and the power of the irritating

469
00:21:26,994 --> 00:21:27,554
Speaker 2: press tool.

470
00:21:31,914 --> 00:21:34,914
Speaker 3: If you had to describe each other's aura, what color

471
00:21:34,954 --> 00:21:37,874
Speaker 3: would it be? That's a nice question an.

472
00:21:37,714 --> 00:21:42,634
Speaker 4: Aura for me sunshine, yeah, thank you.

473
00:21:42,554 --> 00:21:45,994
Speaker 7: And like also I think there's also purple.

474
00:21:46,594 --> 00:21:47,274
Speaker 3: That's very good.

475
00:21:47,474 --> 00:21:52,674
Speaker 2: I see like a like a Siel blue, you know,

476
00:21:53,034 --> 00:21:54,553
Speaker 2: like and.

477
00:21:54,994 --> 00:21:59,954
Speaker 3: So moved by that specific. Sorry, it's very specific and.

478
00:21:59,834 --> 00:22:04,234
Speaker 4: Like and like a like like sunset orange.

479
00:22:04,794 --> 00:22:05,794
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.

480
00:22:06,394 --> 00:22:09,754
Speaker 4: These people I love them, and conditionally I will not

481
00:22:09,794 --> 00:22:11,314
Speaker 4: hear a word against either of them.

482
00:22:11,394 --> 00:22:13,514
Speaker 2: These people, as far as we know, are not tripping

483
00:22:17,314 --> 00:22:21,834
Speaker 2: Cynthia Rivo on a red carpet promoting Wicked for Good

484
00:22:21,914 --> 00:22:23,074
Speaker 2: for Good, which is.

485
00:22:22,994 --> 00:22:24,234
Speaker 3: The second Wicked movie.

486
00:22:24,434 --> 00:22:26,754
Speaker 2: And they've been asked everything at this point, but the

487
00:22:26,874 --> 00:22:29,874
Speaker 2: journal shoots them that question and what you can't see

488
00:22:29,954 --> 00:22:32,314
Speaker 2: unless you're watching us on YouTube, and hey you can,

489
00:22:32,714 --> 00:22:35,833
Speaker 2: but what you can't see. They're a little bit stumped

490
00:22:35,834 --> 00:22:37,834
Speaker 2: by the question. And then they're just staring at each

491
00:22:37,834 --> 00:22:38,634
Speaker 2: other and going about.

492
00:22:38,434 --> 00:22:46,034
Speaker 4: This and I die having so much fun.

493
00:22:46,194 --> 00:22:47,754
Speaker 2: Well, here's the where I want to get to it.

494
00:22:47,794 --> 00:22:49,513
Speaker 2: First of all, I do need to know what color

495
00:22:49,594 --> 00:22:51,394
Speaker 2: is my aura? Yours is like.

496
00:22:53,634 --> 00:22:57,954
Speaker 3: Right now, it's red, Jesse, right now? Is the color

497
00:22:57,994 --> 00:22:58,634
Speaker 3: of fu off?

498
00:22:59,794 --> 00:23:00,074
Speaker 6: I think?

499
00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:03,874
Speaker 2: Anyway, I want to talk about this press tour because,

500
00:23:04,074 --> 00:23:05,874
Speaker 2: as we know, we all lived through this last.

501
00:23:05,754 --> 00:23:07,234
Speaker 3: Year we lived through that.

502
00:23:08,834 --> 00:23:12,634
Speaker 2: You're an enormous onslaught of publicity around the movie Wicked,

503
00:23:12,954 --> 00:23:15,154
Speaker 2: Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arrivo.

504
00:23:15,194 --> 00:23:16,674
Speaker 3: You would have to be living under a rock not

505
00:23:16,714 --> 00:23:16,954
Speaker 3: to have.

506
00:23:16,914 --> 00:23:20,154
Speaker 2: Seen them holding each other's fingernails, fitsing each other's hair,

507
00:23:20,234 --> 00:23:23,593
Speaker 2: making each other cry all the time, and spawning a

508
00:23:23,634 --> 00:23:28,114
Speaker 2: million memes about some positive about girlhood and solidarity, and

509
00:23:28,194 --> 00:23:29,874
Speaker 2: many many more like what.

510
00:23:29,714 --> 00:23:31,634
Speaker 3: The park is wrong with these people?

511
00:23:32,394 --> 00:23:35,034
Speaker 2: They are now back for Wicked too, and they're doing

512
00:23:35,074 --> 00:23:38,434
Speaker 2: the same thing, and again the memes are here.

513
00:23:38,594 --> 00:23:40,474
Speaker 3: This is so irritating. Blah blah blah.

514
00:23:40,554 --> 00:23:45,714
Speaker 2: But this movie is huge. I was rolling my eyes

515
00:23:45,714 --> 00:23:47,874
Speaker 2: about how did they break this movie in two? Like

516
00:23:48,474 --> 00:23:51,434
Speaker 2: it was fourteen hours long the first version and this

517
00:23:52,034 --> 00:23:54,794
Speaker 2: it's never gonna work. Of course it worked. This movie

518
00:23:54,914 --> 00:23:57,394
Speaker 2: is open bigger than the first one. It is going

519
00:23:57,434 --> 00:23:59,553
Speaker 2: to be, no question, one of the top three or

520
00:23:59,554 --> 00:24:00,554
Speaker 2: four movies.

521
00:24:00,194 --> 00:24:00,794
Speaker 6: Of the year.

522
00:24:01,394 --> 00:24:04,954
Speaker 2: So we obviously love this. So my question to you

523
00:24:04,994 --> 00:24:06,554
Speaker 2: too is are those two playing us?

524
00:24:06,634 --> 00:24:08,954
Speaker 3: Is this the act? Is this part of the press

525
00:24:08,994 --> 00:24:09,593
Speaker 3: tour stick?

526
00:24:09,834 --> 00:24:12,194
Speaker 1: We don't love it just because it's the number one movie.

527
00:24:12,274 --> 00:24:14,154
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we love it. I think this

528
00:24:14,194 --> 00:24:18,273
Speaker 1: is a classic example of how the attention economy is

529
00:24:18,394 --> 00:24:22,073
Speaker 1: changing how we consume stuff. I find their whole stick

530
00:24:22,194 --> 00:24:25,513
Speaker 1: intensely irritating. But this movie is very much on my

531
00:24:25,674 --> 00:24:28,954
Speaker 1: radar and I will watch it shortly. And I think

532
00:24:28,954 --> 00:24:32,033
Speaker 1: it's a sign that nowadays we don't look at something

533
00:24:32,074 --> 00:24:35,914
Speaker 1: because we necessarily like it. We look at something because

534
00:24:35,994 --> 00:24:39,314
Speaker 1: we are repulsed. We love it, we hate it, we're

535
00:24:39,314 --> 00:24:41,714
Speaker 1: annoyed by it. We're certainly not indifferent to it.

536
00:24:41,754 --> 00:24:43,714
Speaker 3: But it's not boring, right, It's never boring.

537
00:24:43,754 --> 00:24:46,593
Speaker 1: And in fact, Taylor Swift, the genius that she is,

538
00:24:46,674 --> 00:24:49,273
Speaker 1: sort of encapsulated this nicely when she was asked on

539
00:24:49,354 --> 00:24:52,353
Speaker 1: her press tour for her most recent album, what her

540
00:24:52,394 --> 00:24:54,914
Speaker 1: response was to the haters, essentially to people who said

541
00:24:54,914 --> 00:24:56,154
Speaker 1: that they didn't like the album.

542
00:24:56,554 --> 00:24:59,754
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I welcome the chaos. The rule of

543
00:24:59,794 --> 00:25:02,513
Speaker 7: show business is if it's the first week of my

544
00:25:02,594 --> 00:25:05,513
Speaker 7: album release and you are saying either my name or

545
00:25:05,554 --> 00:25:07,033
Speaker 7: my album title, you're helping.

546
00:25:07,194 --> 00:25:09,514
Speaker 1: And what is so interesting about that is that she

547
00:25:09,594 --> 00:25:12,434
Speaker 1: did not do an album tour for her last album,

548
00:25:12,474 --> 00:25:16,434
Speaker 1: Tortured Poets Department, but she did do one for this

549
00:25:16,514 --> 00:25:20,074
Speaker 1: album because she understood that if people aren't looking at you,

550
00:25:20,074 --> 00:25:21,034
Speaker 1: you are losing.

551
00:25:21,274 --> 00:25:24,394
Speaker 2: It's right, but it's kind of cynical. Jesse, you said

552
00:25:24,474 --> 00:25:28,194
Speaker 2: you do love Yeah, Cynthia and Ariana. Do you think

553
00:25:28,234 --> 00:25:30,434
Speaker 2: it's cynical what they're doing and is that part of

554
00:25:30,434 --> 00:25:31,834
Speaker 2: why you love it? Or do you think this is

555
00:25:31,874 --> 00:25:32,994
Speaker 2: genuinely who they are.

556
00:25:32,874 --> 00:25:33,754
Speaker 3: And that's why you love it.

557
00:25:33,874 --> 00:25:36,154
Speaker 4: I can't work that part out, and maybe that's why

558
00:25:36,194 --> 00:25:38,513
Speaker 4: I can't look away. I think that you make a

559
00:25:38,554 --> 00:25:43,354
Speaker 4: movie and then you've done half the job, and then

560
00:25:43,394 --> 00:25:49,034
Speaker 4: there is a content plan that is potentially more difficult,

561
00:25:49,154 --> 00:25:53,074
Speaker 4: requires more endurance, requires more energy, which is selling the thing.

562
00:25:53,394 --> 00:25:57,513
Speaker 4: And you cannot accuse the cast of not selling the

563
00:25:57,554 --> 00:25:59,874
Speaker 4: shit out of this movie. Like they have gone to

564
00:25:59,954 --> 00:26:03,274
Speaker 4: every corner of the planet, They have gone to every

565
00:26:03,514 --> 00:26:07,714
Speaker 4: red carpet, and they give I must say I have

566
00:26:07,834 --> 00:26:12,194
Speaker 4: respect for the fact that they give every interview everything.

567
00:26:12,514 --> 00:26:15,114
Speaker 3: That's the most amazing question I've ever been asked. Thank

568
00:26:15,154 --> 00:26:17,154
Speaker 3: you for asking me that question. Oh my god, that

569
00:26:17,274 --> 00:26:18,314
Speaker 3: question makes me cry.

570
00:26:19,594 --> 00:26:22,714
Speaker 4: Journalists know the feeling of sitting down with someone who

571
00:26:22,794 --> 00:26:25,714
Speaker 4: doesn't want to promote their movie, who is resenting sitting

572
00:26:25,714 --> 00:26:27,794
Speaker 4: on that couch. You don't really want to be there either,

573
00:26:27,874 --> 00:26:30,074
Speaker 4: and it's awkward and it's awful, and you're trying to

574
00:26:30,074 --> 00:26:32,194
Speaker 4: get one answer that's not what you're getting from either

575
00:26:32,234 --> 00:26:36,554
Speaker 4: of these women. Clearly, the theme or the vibe is girlhood.

576
00:26:36,914 --> 00:26:39,074
Speaker 4: So the fact that we're all a bit turned off

577
00:26:39,114 --> 00:26:42,354
Speaker 4: by it or find it, you know, slightly cringe or whatever,

578
00:26:42,514 --> 00:26:44,754
Speaker 4: is because it's not for us. It's not for adult women.

579
00:26:44,794 --> 00:26:46,034
Speaker 4: They're not behaving like women.

580
00:26:46,154 --> 00:26:48,634
Speaker 1: Find it cringe because it feels like they're just trying

581
00:26:48,634 --> 00:26:50,874
Speaker 1: to sell me something and they're dressing it up in

582
00:26:50,954 --> 00:26:53,394
Speaker 1: this incredibly disingenuous stick.

583
00:26:53,634 --> 00:26:56,074
Speaker 4: I just think that they're in character, and so it's

584
00:26:56,114 --> 00:27:00,994
Speaker 4: like character and they're sitting there touching each other. I

585
00:27:01,074 --> 00:27:03,593
Speaker 4: also wonder if this is how women have to behave

586
00:27:03,914 --> 00:27:08,434
Speaker 4: to basically not fuel feud. Yes, do women have to

587
00:27:08,754 --> 00:27:11,594
Speaker 4: literally be licking each other's faces in order for.

588
00:27:11,554 --> 00:27:12,114
Speaker 5: People to go?

589
00:27:12,234 --> 00:27:15,834
Speaker 4: I think they might like each other. This movie couldn't

590
00:27:15,874 --> 00:27:18,714
Speaker 4: have few rumors it needed to be. They are described

591
00:27:18,754 --> 00:27:20,434
Speaker 4: often as best friends, which is ridiculous.

592
00:27:20,434 --> 00:27:22,553
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned that few because there was a

593
00:27:22,594 --> 00:27:25,554
Speaker 1: scandal around the first movie, which is that Ariana had

594
00:27:25,594 --> 00:27:29,354
Speaker 1: recently taken off with a married man, and so maybe

595
00:27:29,394 --> 00:27:31,594
Speaker 1: that's why they really had to lean into the sack.

596
00:27:31,674 --> 00:27:33,994
Speaker 4: She had to be a girl's girl in order to

597
00:27:34,274 --> 00:27:38,474
Speaker 4: because this is about getting ten year old girls or

598
00:27:38,834 --> 00:27:41,114
Speaker 4: kids to convince their parents to go to the movie.

599
00:27:41,394 --> 00:27:43,914
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because I'm not a wicked person,

600
00:27:43,994 --> 00:27:45,474
Speaker 2: as in I'm not in the Law.

601
00:27:45,554 --> 00:27:45,874
Speaker 3: I don't know.

602
00:27:45,874 --> 00:27:48,314
Speaker 2: I've never seen the musical I'm Not in the Law

603
00:27:48,354 --> 00:27:50,594
Speaker 2: of It. I didn't really get it. And although I

604
00:27:50,634 --> 00:27:53,834
Speaker 2: find it very enjoyable watching them, when I actually did

605
00:27:53,874 --> 00:27:55,114
Speaker 2: watch the movie.

606
00:27:54,754 --> 00:27:55,874
Speaker 3: I was surprised.

607
00:27:55,994 --> 00:27:58,793
Speaker 2: Ariana Grande's character in that movie, the glendonness of it

608
00:27:58,914 --> 00:28:00,914
Speaker 2: is very It's much edgier and a bit bitchier and

609
00:28:00,954 --> 00:28:03,874
Speaker 2: everything then you would imagine, which was great. I loved it,

610
00:28:04,354 --> 00:28:05,154
Speaker 2: but I didn't love it.

611
00:28:05,194 --> 00:28:07,834
Speaker 5: But you've watched it, touched.

612
00:28:07,674 --> 00:28:09,313
Speaker 2: It, And what I mean is that I think in

613
00:28:09,394 --> 00:28:12,354
Speaker 2: some ways the press tour misrepresents that. But then I

614
00:28:12,394 --> 00:28:14,874
Speaker 2: guess that most people do understand the law to a point.

615
00:28:15,074 --> 00:28:16,594
Speaker 2: I wanted to pick up on something you said, You're

616
00:28:16,634 --> 00:28:18,313
Speaker 2: so right. I think about, like, do women have to

617
00:28:18,314 --> 00:28:20,394
Speaker 2: behave like this so that everybody isn't just checking to

618
00:28:20,394 --> 00:28:22,674
Speaker 2: see if they're side eye or competitive dressing?

619
00:28:22,834 --> 00:28:23,234
Speaker 3: Or whatever.

620
00:28:24,074 --> 00:28:27,674
Speaker 2: But now savvy studios are spending almost as much on

621
00:28:27,714 --> 00:28:29,554
Speaker 2: the marketing tour as they are on the movie. So

622
00:28:30,034 --> 00:28:32,514
Speaker 2: the two wikeds cost about three hundred million to make,

623
00:28:32,914 --> 00:28:35,434
Speaker 2: and the marketing campaign has cost two hundred and fifty

624
00:28:35,514 --> 00:28:40,034
Speaker 2: million dollars. Wow, So they recognize the importance of that.

625
00:28:40,194 --> 00:28:42,874
Speaker 2: And we could name several movies lately where the press

626
00:28:42,954 --> 00:28:46,434
Speaker 2: tour has been as big as the film. And I

627
00:28:46,474 --> 00:28:49,234
Speaker 2: wanted to play you this bit from one of my crushes,

628
00:28:49,434 --> 00:28:53,634
Speaker 2: Timothy Schallomay, who is revving up to promote a movie

629
00:28:53,634 --> 00:28:56,314
Speaker 2: that drops on Christmas Day called Marty Supreme. In the

630
00:28:56,354 --> 00:28:59,114
Speaker 2: context of this, the only movies that are doing well

631
00:28:59,154 --> 00:29:01,794
Speaker 2: at the box office at the moment are family movies.

632
00:29:02,234 --> 00:29:04,754
Speaker 2: So the top movies of the year will be Minecraft movie,

633
00:29:05,194 --> 00:29:08,874
Speaker 2: Lelo and Stitch, Yes, Leelo and Steve, an amazing animation

634
00:29:09,274 --> 00:29:14,354
Speaker 2: called Niza II, which has taken billions of dollars. Everybody

635
00:29:14,354 --> 00:29:16,514
Speaker 2: loves family movies, but other movies are hard to sell.

636
00:29:16,554 --> 00:29:19,234
Speaker 2: So for example, one Battle after Another came out. It's

637
00:29:19,234 --> 00:29:21,434
Speaker 2: gonna win all the Oscars, It's got Leonardo DiCaprio and

638
00:29:21,514 --> 00:29:24,314
Speaker 2: it People aren't really right the f one movie that

639
00:29:25,154 --> 00:29:28,074
Speaker 2: one in the top ten, and so that and Mission

640
00:29:28,074 --> 00:29:31,434
Speaker 2: Impossible are the two blockbusters that aren't.

641
00:29:31,154 --> 00:29:32,234
Speaker 3: Family that are in the top ten.

642
00:29:32,274 --> 00:29:36,394
Speaker 2: And the only outlier the amazing horror movie Sinners. So

643
00:29:36,834 --> 00:29:39,954
Speaker 2: Timothy's reving up to promote Marty Supreme. It's a movie

644
00:29:40,034 --> 00:29:44,554
Speaker 2: about a ping pong champion. It includes a dalliance with

645
00:29:44,594 --> 00:29:45,434
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow.

646
00:29:45,794 --> 00:29:46,954
Speaker 3: There's gonna be a bit of fun.

647
00:29:47,794 --> 00:29:49,954
Speaker 2: But he is a savvy man because I think to

648
00:29:50,034 --> 00:29:53,434
Speaker 2: your point about the attention economy, Amelia, in the old

649
00:29:53,514 --> 00:29:55,954
Speaker 2: days when movie stars promoted their movies, they were kind

650
00:29:55,954 --> 00:29:56,674
Speaker 2: of like sitting Miller.

651
00:29:56,794 --> 00:29:57,794
Speaker 3: Oh wouldn't they like?

652
00:29:58,194 --> 00:30:00,314
Speaker 2: As you said, Jesse, God, you have to hate talking.

653
00:30:00,354 --> 00:30:02,514
Speaker 2: This is my least favorite part of the process. But

654
00:30:02,594 --> 00:30:05,834
Speaker 2: digital natives understand the attention economy. So this is a

655
00:30:05,874 --> 00:30:08,834
Speaker 2: clip of a TikTok that he dropped recently. That is

656
00:30:09,114 --> 00:30:12,634
Speaker 2: a skit of him talking to his marketing department about

657
00:30:12,754 --> 00:30:15,314
Speaker 2: Marty Supreme and the stunts they should do. And obviously

658
00:30:15,594 --> 00:30:17,034
Speaker 2: it's fake, but it's very funny.

659
00:30:17,074 --> 00:30:20,274
Speaker 6: We should have the blink go above, flog now and

660
00:30:20,554 --> 00:30:26,194
Speaker 6: rain ping pong balls Marty Supreme branded rain ping pong

661
00:30:26,234 --> 00:30:29,474
Speaker 6: balls on everyone.

662
00:30:29,954 --> 00:30:33,834
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too. I think one thing we'll have

663
00:30:33,914 --> 00:30:35,874
Speaker 2: to kind of take into consideration.

664
00:30:36,074 --> 00:30:38,154
Speaker 3: It's just the safety hazard.

665
00:30:39,274 --> 00:30:40,714
Speaker 5: Something we'll think about.

666
00:30:40,994 --> 00:30:42,394
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I don't want to put anybody in an

667
00:30:42,474 --> 00:30:44,394
Speaker 8: unsafe condition too, But I also don't want to be

668
00:30:44,434 --> 00:30:46,274
Speaker 8: too safe about putting out this movie, you know what

669
00:30:46,314 --> 00:30:48,954
Speaker 8: I mean. If it's a difference between you know what

670
00:30:49,034 --> 00:30:51,074
Speaker 8: I mean, someone losing an arm putting out the movie,

671
00:30:51,074 --> 00:30:53,354
Speaker 8: but someone gaining an arm intellectually when they see it.

672
00:30:53,634 --> 00:30:54,674
Speaker 6: I'm a fan of the ladder.

673
00:30:57,234 --> 00:31:01,474
Speaker 2: So they're already doing their pre production shtick about what

674
00:31:01,514 --> 00:31:03,314
Speaker 2: the press tour is going to be like and the

675
00:31:03,314 --> 00:31:04,234
Speaker 2: pr is going to be like.

676
00:31:04,194 --> 00:31:05,074
Speaker 3: Before it happens.

677
00:31:05,514 --> 00:31:08,714
Speaker 2: Genius, right, people are already talking about it, sharing it.

678
00:31:08,674 --> 00:31:11,634
Speaker 1: And you're right that it's generational because remember Julia Roberts

679
00:31:11,674 --> 00:31:14,994
Speaker 1: had a movie out this year and that movie flopped,

680
00:31:15,354 --> 00:31:18,114
Speaker 1: And I remember that during the press tour for that

681
00:31:18,274 --> 00:31:21,914
Speaker 1: she was quite sullen at various points and was pushing

682
00:31:21,954 --> 00:31:24,634
Speaker 1: back on questions that were given by interviewers. Did not

683
00:31:24,714 --> 00:31:27,194
Speaker 1: want to be there, made that very clear. But even

684
00:31:27,234 --> 00:31:29,914
Speaker 1: the big movie stars can't afford to do that anymore,

685
00:31:29,954 --> 00:31:30,434
Speaker 1: and they know.

686
00:31:30,514 --> 00:31:33,354
Speaker 4: That it's not even about because you know, Ariana Grande

687
00:31:33,434 --> 00:31:36,514
Speaker 4: and Cynthia Arrivo both went on long form podcasts as

688
00:31:36,514 --> 00:31:39,874
Speaker 4: you do. They went on every morning television show. They

689
00:31:39,914 --> 00:31:43,154
Speaker 4: know though, that what they need is a five to

690
00:31:43,194 --> 00:31:46,314
Speaker 4: ten second viral clip, and they deliver, and that's what

691
00:31:46,354 --> 00:31:49,554
Speaker 4: Timothy Shallimey is doing there too. So the other viral

692
00:31:49,594 --> 00:31:52,194
Speaker 4: clip has been the Singapore red carpet.

693
00:31:52,234 --> 00:31:52,994
Speaker 5: Did you guys say that?

694
00:31:53,594 --> 00:31:57,514
Speaker 4: And then the Australian guy ran on like went to

695
00:31:57,554 --> 00:32:00,714
Speaker 4: grab Ariana Grande would have been genuinely scary, but I've

696
00:32:00,794 --> 00:32:03,354
Speaker 4: even been fascinating watching that because of the way Cynthia

697
00:32:03,874 --> 00:32:07,674
Speaker 4: jumps in before the security guard does and defends Ariana,

698
00:32:07,794 --> 00:32:10,834
Speaker 4: and it's like, is that manufactured?

699
00:32:11,194 --> 00:32:12,994
Speaker 3: I know, it's so interesting.

700
00:32:13,274 --> 00:32:15,594
Speaker 1: But also so you said the five second viral clip

701
00:32:15,714 --> 00:32:17,914
Speaker 1: is what they're after, and you said earlier this is

702
00:32:17,994 --> 00:32:20,434
Speaker 1: also that kids can convince their parents to go and

703
00:32:20,434 --> 00:32:22,714
Speaker 1: see the movie. But I wonder if it's actually more

704
00:32:22,754 --> 00:32:24,874
Speaker 1: to convince the parents that they should go and see

705
00:32:24,874 --> 00:32:26,914
Speaker 1: the movie, because I'm not sure how much the kids

706
00:32:26,914 --> 00:32:28,274
Speaker 1: are seeing these clips.

707
00:32:28,394 --> 00:32:30,994
Speaker 4: I wonder because it's like you need to get on

708
00:32:31,074 --> 00:32:33,754
Speaker 4: people's radar, right, Like you know, Sidney Sweeney had a

709
00:32:33,874 --> 00:32:34,274
Speaker 4: movie out.

710
00:32:34,274 --> 00:32:37,594
Speaker 3: I can't even Christy Christie that bond right, that didn't work.

711
00:32:37,714 --> 00:32:40,874
Speaker 2: It did. There's some theories there that what the mass

712
00:32:40,914 --> 00:32:44,114
Speaker 2: population wants is not to see Sydney Sweeney roughed up

713
00:32:44,154 --> 00:32:46,434
Speaker 2: and looking yeah sort of scroll like she's shooting for

714
00:32:46,514 --> 00:32:49,594
Speaker 2: an oscar. Is the you know, the sort of narrative,

715
00:32:49,674 --> 00:32:51,514
Speaker 2: and that the people are like, that's not what we

716
00:32:51,554 --> 00:32:53,034
Speaker 2: want Sydney Sweeney for Yeah.

717
00:32:53,154 --> 00:32:55,554
Speaker 4: I think though, that it almost needs to be like

718
00:32:55,594 --> 00:32:58,954
Speaker 4: Wicked needs to be top of mind for like multiple generations,

719
00:32:58,994 --> 00:33:01,154
Speaker 4: Like it needs to be something that you wants to see,

720
00:33:01,514 --> 00:33:04,234
Speaker 4: that you want to see that you'll go and have

721
00:33:04,274 --> 00:33:08,954
Speaker 4: a family experience and them has become within families like

722
00:33:08,954 --> 00:33:13,194
Speaker 4: a cultural communal experience where you then walk away and

723
00:33:13,234 --> 00:33:16,074
Speaker 4: discuss values. Like it feels like something that's a really

724
00:33:16,114 --> 00:33:17,474
Speaker 4: important thing.

725
00:33:17,354 --> 00:33:19,874
Speaker 2: To say, I think, which is ironic because it's about

726
00:33:19,914 --> 00:33:22,674
Speaker 2: little screens versus big screens, But taking your kids to

727
00:33:22,714 --> 00:33:25,914
Speaker 2: the movies feels like a wholesome family activity.

728
00:33:25,914 --> 00:33:28,914
Speaker 5: It's because you're all watching the screen and if.

729
00:33:28,794 --> 00:33:30,154
Speaker 1: You take your kids, you don't need to pay for

730
00:33:30,194 --> 00:33:32,154
Speaker 1: a babysitter, which is why I didn't see the New

731
00:33:32,194 --> 00:33:34,394
Speaker 1: Paul Thomas Anderson because it was two hours and fifty

732
00:33:34,434 --> 00:33:37,914
Speaker 1: minutes long. Yes, So did this press tour thing start

733
00:33:37,954 --> 00:33:41,994
Speaker 1: with the Barbie movie? Remember Margot Robbie's famous outfit style

734
00:33:41,994 --> 00:33:44,874
Speaker 1: by Andrew McCamy, different for each city that she went to,

735
00:33:45,114 --> 00:33:46,234
Speaker 1: created a lot of buzz.

736
00:33:46,354 --> 00:33:47,674
Speaker 5: Is that where this all started?

737
00:33:47,954 --> 00:33:49,714
Speaker 2: I think that was a large part of it because

738
00:33:49,754 --> 00:33:52,994
Speaker 2: the press tour dressing has become a big deal. And

739
00:33:53,074 --> 00:33:55,154
Speaker 2: you've always said this Jesse is that people get very

740
00:33:55,354 --> 00:33:57,514
Speaker 2: excited about what people are or aren't wearing on their

741
00:33:57,514 --> 00:34:00,594
Speaker 2: press tours. But it's about character and it's about linking

742
00:34:00,634 --> 00:34:03,394
Speaker 2: it to the brand. Because Timothy my mate, and I

743
00:34:03,514 --> 00:34:05,594
Speaker 2: need to stop talking about him and Zendea when they

744
00:34:05,634 --> 00:34:08,194
Speaker 2: did June, which was considered a really great press tour

745
00:34:08,234 --> 00:34:10,554
Speaker 2: and I wasn't scandal, but they dressed in these.

746
00:34:10,354 --> 00:34:13,913
Speaker 3: Really weird sci fi s outfits.

747
00:34:13,473 --> 00:34:16,073
Speaker 2: And so that gets you everywhere. Of course, you can't

748
00:34:16,074 --> 00:34:18,194
Speaker 2: talk about press tool drama without talking about it ends

749
00:34:18,194 --> 00:34:22,954
Speaker 2: with us because although that work well, the thing is is,

750
00:34:22,994 --> 00:34:28,314
Speaker 2: although that movie has ruined many lives, couriers.

751
00:34:28,514 --> 00:34:29,714
Speaker 5: And crunch a lot of money.

752
00:34:29,794 --> 00:34:33,234
Speaker 2: It cost twenty five million to make and it has

753
00:34:33,394 --> 00:34:35,354
Speaker 2: made hundreds Wow.

754
00:34:35,914 --> 00:34:38,953
Speaker 4: But then you've got the don't worry dowling press tour,

755
00:34:39,194 --> 00:34:42,234
Speaker 4: which is when I think press tour became narrative.

756
00:34:42,314 --> 00:34:45,393
Speaker 1: But that didn't work for dot So, no matter how

757
00:34:45,394 --> 00:34:49,514
Speaker 1: many times we debated whether or not Chris Pine had spat.

758
00:34:49,234 --> 00:34:51,314
Speaker 5: On Yep, Harry starrs.

759
00:34:51,034 --> 00:34:53,914
Speaker 1: Harry styles Lap, another one one went to see the movie,

760
00:34:53,994 --> 00:34:54,913
Speaker 1: No one went to see it.

761
00:34:55,154 --> 00:34:57,954
Speaker 4: If you are a massive Wicked fan, or even not,

762
00:34:58,034 --> 00:34:59,994
Speaker 4: if you've just seen the movie and you want a debrief,

763
00:35:00,114 --> 00:35:03,034
Speaker 4: then Mumma Maya's got this new podcast called watch Party

764
00:35:03,074 --> 00:35:05,473
Speaker 4: and it deep dives into all the behind the scenes

765
00:35:05,514 --> 00:35:08,154
Speaker 4: stuff the easter eggs. It's like you've gone to the

766
00:35:08,154 --> 00:35:10,794
Speaker 4: movies with your really smart friend who's just like obsessed

767
00:35:10,794 --> 00:35:12,594
Speaker 4: with the law, and he's going to explain it to you.

768
00:35:13,234 --> 00:35:15,794
Speaker 4: So there is a link to that episode in the

769
00:35:15,834 --> 00:35:16,314
Speaker 4: show notes.

770
00:35:16,394 --> 00:35:17,953
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if I can peg you back on top

771
00:35:17,994 --> 00:35:20,393
Speaker 1: of that, on Parenting out Loud this Saturday, we are

772
00:35:20,394 --> 00:35:23,393
Speaker 1: actually talking about another aspect of the press tour, doing

773
00:35:23,434 --> 00:35:27,834
Speaker 1: another kind of cultural analysis around why this became such

774
00:35:27,874 --> 00:35:30,393
Speaker 1: a big thing. We're going to be talking about the

775
00:35:30,714 --> 00:35:33,754
Speaker 1: Wicked press tour elephant in the room. That is the

776
00:35:33,794 --> 00:35:37,034
Speaker 1: thing that everyone was thinking but not necessarily talking about

777
00:35:37,634 --> 00:35:40,873
Speaker 1: after the break. The unexpected lesson that I learned at

778
00:35:40,874 --> 00:35:42,394
Speaker 1: my high school reunion.

779
00:35:42,674 --> 00:35:44,474
Speaker 5: One unlimited out loud access.

780
00:35:44,754 --> 00:35:48,834
Speaker 4: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum

781
00:35:48,874 --> 00:35:51,873
Speaker 4: and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes

782
00:35:51,914 --> 00:35:54,394
Speaker 4: to get us in your ears five days a week.

783
00:35:54,554 --> 00:35:57,274
Speaker 4: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

784
00:36:03,394 --> 00:36:06,274
Speaker 1: So I went to my high school reunion recently, and

785
00:36:06,514 --> 00:36:09,714
Speaker 1: what was really interesting about it is how instantly it

786
00:36:09,754 --> 00:36:12,034
Speaker 1: took me back to how I felt in high school.

787
00:36:12,194 --> 00:36:12,993
Speaker 3: What number was it.

788
00:36:12,914 --> 00:36:14,714
Speaker 5: By the way, I don't want to sound.

789
00:36:14,594 --> 00:36:17,234
Speaker 1: Rude, but no, by all means, it was my twenty fifth.

790
00:36:18,194 --> 00:36:21,154
Speaker 1: And what was striking about it is that it was

791
00:36:21,194 --> 00:36:24,234
Speaker 1: held at a bar here in Sydney, and I instantly

792
00:36:24,314 --> 00:36:26,314
Speaker 1: felt exactly the way I felt in high school. I

793
00:36:26,354 --> 00:36:29,154
Speaker 1: felt like a ghost, just floating through the halls, like

794
00:36:29,594 --> 00:36:32,194
Speaker 1: no one really like knew me or I wasn't in

795
00:36:32,194 --> 00:36:35,034
Speaker 1: any of the videos that they showed, and it just

796
00:36:35,114 --> 00:36:37,714
Speaker 1: really made me feel that sense of being a little

797
00:36:37,754 --> 00:36:39,393
Speaker 1: bit small and a little bit invisible.

798
00:36:39,954 --> 00:36:41,874
Speaker 3: You weren't in any of the videos?

799
00:36:41,874 --> 00:36:46,314
Speaker 1: No, absolutely no, why not? Look, I was really uncool

800
00:36:46,314 --> 00:36:48,433
Speaker 1: in high school. I know that's hard to believe now

801
00:36:48,434 --> 00:36:51,314
Speaker 1: that I am at the apex of pool. But I

802
00:36:51,554 --> 00:36:55,314
Speaker 1: was very uncool and I felt very unsure of myself socially.

803
00:36:55,394 --> 00:36:57,474
Speaker 1: I went to a single sex school, and I felt

804
00:36:57,474 --> 00:37:01,074
Speaker 1: like everyone else knew lots of boys and were going

805
00:37:01,114 --> 00:37:03,634
Speaker 1: on dates and that just wasn't me.

806
00:37:03,434 --> 00:37:06,354
Speaker 4: And can I ask why you decided to go? Because

807
00:37:06,354 --> 00:37:09,994
Speaker 4: I think the big thing about high school reunions is

808
00:37:10,554 --> 00:37:13,794
Speaker 4: some people go, I'm curious to see how everyone's going,

809
00:37:13,834 --> 00:37:16,993
Speaker 4: and others believe that people don't change, and they go,

810
00:37:17,194 --> 00:37:19,114
Speaker 4: I've been there, I've done that. I don't need to

811
00:37:19,154 --> 00:37:21,714
Speaker 4: revisit it. I don't have fond memories. What made you

812
00:37:21,794 --> 00:37:23,234
Speaker 4: choose to go to a twenty fifth?

813
00:37:23,434 --> 00:37:26,474
Speaker 1: Well, that's the interesting thing because for a long time

814
00:37:26,554 --> 00:37:29,714
Speaker 1: now people have been predicting that high school reunions are

815
00:37:29,754 --> 00:37:32,754
Speaker 1: going to die. They say, you can find out everything

816
00:37:32,794 --> 00:37:35,234
Speaker 1: you want to know about everyone on the internet now,

817
00:37:35,274 --> 00:37:37,034
Speaker 1: so what is the point in going to a high

818
00:37:37,074 --> 00:37:39,393
Speaker 1: school reunion. It's easier than ever to keep in touch

819
00:37:39,434 --> 00:37:42,714
Speaker 1: with people, Like why bother going? The thing is they

820
00:37:42,794 --> 00:37:45,754
Speaker 1: never die. The media keeps predicting this, and the high

821
00:37:45,754 --> 00:37:48,514
Speaker 1: school reunions keep on happening. My dad had his the

822
00:37:48,554 --> 00:37:51,074
Speaker 1: same week as mine. He had his sixtieth. He had,

823
00:37:51,114 --> 00:37:52,953
Speaker 1: by the way, exactly the same feelings that I had

824
00:37:52,994 --> 00:37:55,594
Speaker 1: about the fact that clicks never go away. People are

825
00:37:55,594 --> 00:37:59,074
Speaker 1: still real like walling into the same social patterns. So

826
00:37:59,434 --> 00:38:02,514
Speaker 1: what I wanted to test out here today is a

827
00:38:02,594 --> 00:38:06,154
Speaker 1: theory of why I think they haven't died despite the

828
00:38:06,154 --> 00:38:08,433
Speaker 1: fact that social media is everywhere and we know too

829
00:38:08,474 --> 00:38:11,194
Speaker 1: much about each other. We go to them because they

830
00:38:11,274 --> 00:38:13,714
Speaker 1: teach us not about what other people are up to,

831
00:38:13,914 --> 00:38:16,674
Speaker 1: but how we're doing. It's kind of an opportunity to

832
00:38:16,794 --> 00:38:19,513
Speaker 1: check in with ourselves by comparing ourselves.

833
00:38:19,194 --> 00:38:19,914
Speaker 3: To other people.

834
00:38:20,274 --> 00:38:23,154
Speaker 2: I have many questions, Yes, is this the first time

835
00:38:23,154 --> 00:38:23,714
Speaker 2: you've gone.

836
00:38:23,954 --> 00:38:27,114
Speaker 1: No, so I've also been to I went to university.

837
00:38:27,154 --> 00:38:30,714
Speaker 1: In the US, reunions for university there are a huge deals.

838
00:38:30,714 --> 00:38:33,714
Speaker 1: So I also went this year to my twentieth university

839
00:38:33,754 --> 00:38:36,834
Speaker 1: reunion in the US. Ask me anything, I'm kind of

840
00:38:36,834 --> 00:38:37,794
Speaker 1: a reunion expert.

841
00:38:37,954 --> 00:38:39,194
Speaker 3: You enjoyed that more.

842
00:38:39,314 --> 00:38:39,953
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that more.

843
00:38:40,394 --> 00:38:42,114
Speaker 3: Jesse, are you a school reunion person?

844
00:38:42,234 --> 00:38:44,754
Speaker 2: I would go, but they just don't organize well. So

845
00:38:44,834 --> 00:38:48,474
Speaker 2: these are some of the questions I have. Who organizes school?

846
00:38:48,914 --> 00:38:50,994
Speaker 4: I think it's meant to be ya the cool people.

847
00:38:51,514 --> 00:38:53,594
Speaker 4: That's what I was wondering, people who are doing well.

848
00:38:53,794 --> 00:38:57,473
Speaker 2: Yea, surely this influences it, because don't really come from

849
00:38:57,474 --> 00:38:58,994
Speaker 2: a culture of school reunion.

850
00:38:59,034 --> 00:38:59,274
Speaker 6: I don't.

851
00:38:59,314 --> 00:39:00,954
Speaker 3: Maybe it's not a big thing in the UK.

852
00:39:00,874 --> 00:39:03,154
Speaker 2: Or maybe I just went to the because private schools

853
00:39:03,154 --> 00:39:05,554
Speaker 2: are much bigger on school reunions and public schools are.

854
00:39:05,674 --> 00:39:08,754
Speaker 2: In fact, some private schools have alumni departments that do

855
00:39:08,874 --> 00:39:09,514
Speaker 2: things like this.

856
00:39:09,674 --> 00:39:11,953
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be clear, I went to a public and

857
00:39:12,034 --> 00:39:14,194
Speaker 1: this was just the cool girls at my public school.

858
00:39:14,274 --> 00:39:16,154
Speaker 2: So that's what I was wondering. Is like, the people

859
00:39:16,154 --> 00:39:18,514
Speaker 2: who organize it probably set the tone a little bit,

860
00:39:18,554 --> 00:39:20,074
Speaker 2: don't they in terms of who's in the video?

861
00:39:20,274 --> 00:39:22,953
Speaker 3: Yes, they do their ages all.

862
00:39:23,754 --> 00:39:28,154
Speaker 1: And also another thing I noticed is that outliers, either

863
00:39:28,234 --> 00:39:32,994
Speaker 1: people doing exceptionally well or people not doing so well,

864
00:39:33,154 --> 00:39:35,953
Speaker 1: don't show up. It's the people in the middle who

865
00:39:35,954 --> 00:39:38,154
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I mean, my life, it's okay. They're

866
00:39:38,194 --> 00:39:39,234
Speaker 1: the people who show up.

867
00:39:39,274 --> 00:39:41,634
Speaker 2: So I guess the stereotype is Jesse says that we

868
00:39:41,714 --> 00:39:44,634
Speaker 2: go to reunions or interested in them because it is comparison.

869
00:39:44,714 --> 00:39:47,473
Speaker 2: As you've said, so do you have to before you go,

870
00:39:47,634 --> 00:39:50,634
Speaker 2: like provide a little bio like, I'm a million lester,

871
00:39:50,754 --> 00:39:52,674
Speaker 2: I work in media. Now I'm the first people like,

872
00:39:52,714 --> 00:39:54,474
Speaker 2: do you do that? So everybody knows? Or is the

873
00:39:54,514 --> 00:39:56,553
Speaker 2: whole evening just people going up to people and going

874
00:39:56,634 --> 00:39:57,594
Speaker 2: did you get divorced?

875
00:39:57,674 --> 00:40:00,034
Speaker 3: What's your job now? How much money have you got

876
00:40:00,034 --> 00:40:00,754
Speaker 3: in your bank account?

877
00:40:00,794 --> 00:40:03,154
Speaker 1: Like? Okay. So this is an interesting thing because in

878
00:40:03,194 --> 00:40:06,634
Speaker 1: an American context, for universities, you write in a little

879
00:40:06,634 --> 00:40:08,874
Speaker 1: thing about how you're doing in advance of the reunion,

880
00:40:09,394 --> 00:40:11,674
Speaker 1: and for my university, it's called the Little Red Book,

881
00:40:11,714 --> 00:40:13,634
Speaker 1: and it gets delivered to your house a couple of

882
00:40:13,634 --> 00:40:15,594
Speaker 1: months before the reunion, and you go through it and

883
00:40:15,634 --> 00:40:17,393
Speaker 1: you look up all the famous people first and you

884
00:40:17,434 --> 00:40:20,033
Speaker 1: see what they've put and generally, to my earlier point,

885
00:40:20,154 --> 00:40:22,794
Speaker 1: they don't send anything in. And then you look up

886
00:40:22,834 --> 00:40:25,474
Speaker 1: all your ex boyfriends who you know are doing disastrously,

887
00:40:25,554 --> 00:40:28,154
Speaker 1: and guess what, they haven't sent anything in either. So

888
00:40:28,354 --> 00:40:30,834
Speaker 1: it's the people who are just like I got a mortgage,

889
00:40:30,874 --> 00:40:31,314
Speaker 1: I got a.

890
00:40:31,274 --> 00:40:32,354
Speaker 5: Pet, I got a kid.

891
00:40:32,434 --> 00:40:34,474
Speaker 1: These are the people writing in. It's the kind of

892
00:40:34,514 --> 00:40:37,674
Speaker 1: people with the more quote unquote normal lives who tend

893
00:40:37,674 --> 00:40:39,714
Speaker 1: to be more willing to put themselves out there.

894
00:40:39,794 --> 00:40:40,994
Speaker 3: Do we take partners.

895
00:40:41,554 --> 00:40:44,514
Speaker 1: This is interesting too. In an American context, you do

896
00:40:44,594 --> 00:40:48,194
Speaker 1: take partners. In an Australian context, you do not. And

897
00:40:48,274 --> 00:40:51,194
Speaker 1: the way this changes the dynamic is that I think

898
00:40:51,234 --> 00:40:54,674
Speaker 1: this is why reunions in Australia tend to be more clique,

899
00:40:55,074 --> 00:40:58,874
Speaker 1: because everyone in that room theoretically knows each other, whereas

900
00:40:58,954 --> 00:41:01,993
Speaker 1: if you have partners there, people feel like, well, half

901
00:41:01,994 --> 00:41:04,274
Speaker 1: the people in this room don't know anyone, so I

902
00:41:04,314 --> 00:41:06,874
Speaker 1: may as well get introducing people, I may as well mix.

903
00:41:07,234 --> 00:41:09,074
Speaker 1: The thing that was striking it my high school reunion

904
00:41:09,154 --> 00:41:11,674
Speaker 1: is that no one mixed. You basically just hung out

905
00:41:11,674 --> 00:41:13,594
Speaker 1: with your friendship group from high school.

906
00:41:14,314 --> 00:41:16,714
Speaker 3: Which brings me to my big.

907
00:41:16,514 --> 00:41:19,674
Speaker 1: Surprising revelation from all this is that not only did

908
00:41:19,674 --> 00:41:22,593
Speaker 1: I learn about myself from this reunion and it helped

909
00:41:22,634 --> 00:41:24,274
Speaker 1: me get in touch with how I felt in high

910
00:41:24,274 --> 00:41:27,073
Speaker 1: school and how that influenced decisions I subsequently meant about

911
00:41:27,114 --> 00:41:30,754
Speaker 1: my life, it also really strengthened my bond with my

912
00:41:30,834 --> 00:41:33,913
Speaker 1: high school best friend. And I think that's the other

913
00:41:33,954 --> 00:41:36,754
Speaker 1: thing about reunions and why they're great is the people

914
00:41:36,794 --> 00:41:39,994
Speaker 1: who you're already friends with, it helps you deepen your

915
00:41:40,034 --> 00:41:43,074
Speaker 1: connection with them because there's all the nostalgia you revisit

916
00:41:43,114 --> 00:41:45,074
Speaker 1: all these memories. This is why Romey and Michell's High

917
00:41:45,074 --> 00:41:48,234
Speaker 1: School Reunion, the nineteen ninety seven classic, which apparently they're

918
00:41:48,234 --> 00:41:49,194
Speaker 1: making a sequel of.

919
00:41:49,234 --> 00:41:50,754
Speaker 3: We Invented post It notes.

920
00:41:50,954 --> 00:41:52,953
Speaker 1: Well, I couldn't resist a clip from that.

921
00:41:53,194 --> 00:42:00,194
Speaker 6: So Michell, what are you up to? Okay, I invented

922
00:42:00,234 --> 00:42:03,954
Speaker 6: post its. If you're kidding, you must have made a fortune.

923
00:42:04,274 --> 00:42:09,274
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I've gotten on these so much. Apparently Jens

924
00:42:09,554 --> 00:42:11,474
Speaker 1: love it too now, And that movie is all about

925
00:42:11,514 --> 00:42:14,394
Speaker 1: celebrating a friendship that has stilled the test of time.

926
00:42:14,554 --> 00:42:16,714
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's still a very dear friend

927
00:42:16,754 --> 00:42:19,074
Speaker 1: of mine who I was very close friends with in

928
00:42:19,154 --> 00:42:21,953
Speaker 1: high school. But we really just had a fabulous time

929
00:42:22,034 --> 00:42:24,433
Speaker 1: like revisiting memories together, which is why I think Rome

930
00:42:24,514 --> 00:42:26,354
Speaker 1: and Michelle's High School re Union is such a great

931
00:42:26,394 --> 00:42:28,393
Speaker 1: movie and connects with so many people.

932
00:42:28,194 --> 00:42:32,034
Speaker 2: Because a lot of narratives about high school probably aren't true.

933
00:42:32,394 --> 00:42:36,114
Speaker 4: No, and they're very egocentric, And I wonder if there

934
00:42:36,194 --> 00:42:39,993
Speaker 4: is something about ego that is brought out with high

935
00:42:40,034 --> 00:42:42,754
Speaker 4: school reunions. And I was reading this article that said

936
00:42:43,034 --> 00:42:45,274
Speaker 4: it was a psychologist saying there is a time of

937
00:42:45,354 --> 00:42:47,953
Speaker 4: year when my office is full of people who sit

938
00:42:47,994 --> 00:42:49,873
Speaker 4: there for an hour talking about whether or not to go,

939
00:42:50,314 --> 00:42:54,553
Speaker 4: like it's a really distressing kind of big decision where

940
00:42:54,554 --> 00:42:56,834
Speaker 4: they go. I just don't know what to do. And

941
00:42:56,874 --> 00:42:59,913
Speaker 4: I wonder if for some people it's like you want

942
00:42:59,914 --> 00:43:02,914
Speaker 4: to show up and go. This is the newest iteration

943
00:43:03,034 --> 00:43:05,433
Speaker 4: of me. I want to feel seen and understood and

944
00:43:05,474 --> 00:43:09,194
Speaker 4: I'm not. It's like a shedding and like this social

945
00:43:09,274 --> 00:43:13,194
Speaker 4: pageantry of like I am now this, I have evolved,

946
00:43:13,914 --> 00:43:16,074
Speaker 4: while at the same time maybe wanting to believe that

947
00:43:16,074 --> 00:43:17,553
Speaker 4: everyone else is exactly the same.

948
00:43:18,474 --> 00:43:20,634
Speaker 1: I just think I've got a message for these people

949
00:43:20,674 --> 00:43:23,994
Speaker 1: who are agonizing over it, and my messages get over yourself.

950
00:43:24,154 --> 00:43:26,314
Speaker 1: I know that sounds harsh, but an article on The

951
00:43:26,314 --> 00:43:29,514
Speaker 1: Atlantic recently, which was sort of interrogating the point of reunions,

952
00:43:29,514 --> 00:43:31,754
Speaker 1: makes the same point because the author of that article

953
00:43:31,874 --> 00:43:33,714
Speaker 1: chose not to go to his twentieth high school re

954
00:43:33,754 --> 00:43:36,913
Speaker 1: union because he kind of felt, all these things, is

955
00:43:36,954 --> 00:43:38,873
Speaker 1: my life where I want it to be? Will I

956
00:43:38,954 --> 00:43:42,074
Speaker 1: feel inadequate? And then in the end he concluded that

957
00:43:42,474 --> 00:43:45,754
Speaker 1: it's actually more sort of uncool not to go to

958
00:43:45,794 --> 00:43:48,794
Speaker 1: the reunion because it implies your overthinking how important you

959
00:43:48,834 --> 00:43:51,594
Speaker 1: are to other people, and it implies that they actually

960
00:43:51,714 --> 00:43:54,234
Speaker 1: are going to sort of analyze your life. And they

961
00:43:54,274 --> 00:43:57,234
Speaker 1: don't care either. It's just an opportunity to revisit your

962
00:43:57,234 --> 00:43:57,754
Speaker 1: old self.

963
00:43:57,874 --> 00:44:00,913
Speaker 2: I can't imagine the stress when I was looking at

964
00:44:00,994 --> 00:44:03,873
Speaker 2: who goes high school unions. Apparently twentieth is very well attended.

965
00:44:03,914 --> 00:44:07,034
Speaker 3: Tenth people are still a bit too angsty.

966
00:44:07,194 --> 00:44:10,354
Speaker 1: This is a whole thing, right, This is a whole thing.

967
00:44:10,554 --> 00:44:12,394
Speaker 2: Fifth and tenth is still a bit too close.

968
00:44:12,754 --> 00:44:15,953
Speaker 1: So here's how it goes. Five is just I'll get

969
00:44:15,994 --> 00:44:20,274
Speaker 1: to that. Five is just everyone's really drunk. Ten is

970
00:44:20,394 --> 00:44:24,913
Speaker 1: the worst because ten everyone is still so caught up

971
00:44:24,954 --> 00:44:28,314
Speaker 1: in comparing and it's that point at which everyone's lives

972
00:44:28,474 --> 00:44:32,674
Speaker 1: really start to diverge. So at my tenth university reunion,

973
00:44:32,714 --> 00:44:35,714
Speaker 1: I left it early. I was so miserable, and I

974
00:44:35,794 --> 00:44:38,114
Speaker 1: just felt like I wasn't at the place in my

975
00:44:38,154 --> 00:44:41,234
Speaker 1: life where I needed to be, and I was comparing

976
00:44:41,274 --> 00:44:43,794
Speaker 1: myself to other people and feeling inadequate. There was someone

977
00:44:43,834 --> 00:44:51,234
Speaker 1: at my tenth university reunion who had founded Airbnb, too,

978
00:44:51,354 --> 00:44:54,754
Speaker 1: better than I was. Fifteen. That's when the shit starts

979
00:44:54,754 --> 00:44:58,234
Speaker 1: to hit the fan, because interesting and by twenty someone

980
00:44:58,234 --> 00:45:00,993
Speaker 1: said to me at my twentieth university reunion, everyone here

981
00:45:01,034 --> 00:45:03,794
Speaker 1: has been through a humbling experience. And it's true, whether

982
00:45:03,834 --> 00:45:08,794
Speaker 1: it's the death of a parent, in fertility, problems with children, divorce,

983
00:45:09,194 --> 00:45:11,594
Speaker 1: so many things happening. There's no way you get to

984
00:45:11,634 --> 00:45:13,114
Speaker 1: twenty unscathed.

985
00:45:12,714 --> 00:45:14,834
Speaker 4: Whereas in high school there are a lot of people

986
00:45:14,834 --> 00:45:16,074
Speaker 4: who have never been humbled.

987
00:45:16,154 --> 00:45:16,354
Speaker 1: Yep.

988
00:45:16,674 --> 00:45:19,234
Speaker 4: And so that's what's quite interesting is that I do

989
00:45:19,314 --> 00:45:22,634
Speaker 4: believe people evolve over a lifetime, and I think we

990
00:45:23,154 --> 00:45:25,754
Speaker 4: almost can't talk about this without talking about how social

991
00:45:25,794 --> 00:45:27,834
Speaker 4: media has changed, because a lot of the predictions have

992
00:45:27,954 --> 00:45:30,714
Speaker 4: been you can go just find someone on social media,

993
00:45:30,714 --> 00:45:33,114
Speaker 4: why would you go to a reunion? And then in

994
00:45:33,234 --> 00:45:37,354
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen there was the great social media algorithmic revision,

995
00:45:37,714 --> 00:45:41,114
Speaker 4: where no longer did your friends pop up on your feet.

996
00:45:41,274 --> 00:45:42,754
Speaker 3: And now all.

997
00:45:42,754 --> 00:45:45,354
Speaker 4: The people I went to school with either don't post,

998
00:45:45,794 --> 00:45:47,114
Speaker 4: are on private.

999
00:45:47,354 --> 00:45:49,234
Speaker 3: Don't stop hosting. Isn't what it used to me.

1000
00:45:49,394 --> 00:45:51,594
Speaker 4: They're not even telling me that they've had their third baby,

1001
00:45:51,634 --> 00:45:54,154
Speaker 4: so I can't keep up. They're certainly not posting about

1002
00:45:54,154 --> 00:45:57,473
Speaker 4: their divorce. So I feel like there's been this withdrawal

1003
00:45:57,514 --> 00:46:01,834
Speaker 4: of sharing, and now I'm interested in their lives again.

1004
00:46:02,114 --> 00:46:04,314
Speaker 4: And it's not I don't know everything, I can't get

1005
00:46:04,354 --> 00:46:05,194
Speaker 4: access to everything.

1006
00:46:05,634 --> 00:46:09,473
Speaker 2: I'm still hung up on what you where. I think

1007
00:46:09,554 --> 00:46:12,473
Speaker 2: you're So this is a depressed story, but it's true.

1008
00:46:12,514 --> 00:46:13,274
Speaker 3: Is that because.

1009
00:46:13,234 --> 00:46:15,754
Speaker 2: Reunions aren't a thing in my world. But I went

1010
00:46:15,834 --> 00:46:18,034
Speaker 2: to a funeral not that long ago from a lot

1011
00:46:18,034 --> 00:46:20,314
Speaker 2: of people that I was in my very tight friend

1012
00:46:20,354 --> 00:46:22,913
Speaker 2: group when we were in our early twenties, which was

1013
00:46:22,954 --> 00:46:25,354
Speaker 2: a very sad event, obviously. But one of the things

1014
00:46:25,394 --> 00:46:27,754
Speaker 2: that was so striking about seeing a whole room full

1015
00:46:27,794 --> 00:46:29,594
Speaker 2: of people who you used to know really well but

1016
00:46:29,634 --> 00:46:31,473
Speaker 2: you haven't seen for a long times most of us

1017
00:46:31,514 --> 00:46:35,594
Speaker 2: drifted apart, is everybody is so judging about what people

1018
00:46:35,634 --> 00:46:39,314
Speaker 2: look like. The men were divided into either they'd got

1019
00:46:39,314 --> 00:46:43,114
Speaker 2: really into cycling and they were you know, tryouts and

1020
00:46:43,154 --> 00:46:46,834
Speaker 2: they were like super fit, or they were like beer belly,

1021
00:46:47,514 --> 00:46:51,074
Speaker 2: like thinning, like no dissing, like we're all along that spectrum.

1022
00:46:51,314 --> 00:46:54,513
Speaker 2: And the women had made a lot of effort even

1023
00:46:54,554 --> 00:46:57,474
Speaker 2: though this was not a reunion, because you knew that

1024
00:46:57,474 --> 00:46:59,754
Speaker 2: that this is one of those moments in life where

1025
00:46:59,794 --> 00:47:01,274
Speaker 2: you're going to see all these people.

1026
00:47:01,074 --> 00:47:02,354
Speaker 3: And you're going to be judged.

1027
00:47:03,554 --> 00:47:07,594
Speaker 2: Reunions must be like that on steroids where and do

1028
00:47:07,674 --> 00:47:10,794
Speaker 2: they like massively diet or get their botox done or like,

1029
00:47:10,874 --> 00:47:12,674
Speaker 2: how does did you get your brows done before?

1030
00:47:12,994 --> 00:47:16,873
Speaker 1: Yes, obviously that's really interesting, Holly, because I wonder if

1031
00:47:16,914 --> 00:47:19,194
Speaker 1: like twenty is a bit of the sweet spot or

1032
00:47:19,234 --> 00:47:22,953
Speaker 1: twenty and twenty five because you still feel like you're not.

1033
00:47:23,354 --> 00:47:25,114
Speaker 3: Yet officially old.

1034
00:47:25,754 --> 00:47:27,033
Speaker 5: A lot of people still have a.

1035
00:47:26,914 --> 00:47:29,314
Speaker 1: Bit more time than they used to have for maintenance

1036
00:47:29,354 --> 00:47:31,993
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I didn't feel that judgment at

1037
00:47:32,034 --> 00:47:35,154
Speaker 1: twenty five. In any case, I wore a farm Rio

1038
00:47:35,314 --> 00:47:39,034
Speaker 1: cocktail dress. I think cocktail dresses are great for occasions

1039
00:47:39,074 --> 00:47:40,714
Speaker 1: where you want to impress, but you don't seem like

1040
00:47:40,754 --> 00:47:42,754
Speaker 1: you're trying too hard. But maybe throw on an apron.

1041
00:47:42,754 --> 00:47:43,913
Speaker 1: I don't know what would Megan do.

1042
00:47:44,074 --> 00:47:48,114
Speaker 2: Like Megan, she'd be wearing a twenty two thousand dollars btlllegat.

1043
00:47:48,874 --> 00:47:49,674
Speaker 5: I'm surprised for that.

1044
00:47:49,714 --> 00:47:52,354
Speaker 4: Amelia didn't wear a tweet skirt I was talking about

1045
00:47:52,354 --> 00:47:54,434
Speaker 4: on Monday's show with a sensible shoe.

1046
00:47:54,674 --> 00:47:57,834
Speaker 2: Thank you out louders for listening to today's show. Don't

1047
00:47:57,874 --> 00:48:00,554
Speaker 2: forget to like and follow us on YouTube if you

1048
00:48:00,834 --> 00:48:01,954
Speaker 2: like that kind of thing.

1049
00:48:03,834 --> 00:48:04,074
Speaker 1: You wear.

1050
00:48:04,194 --> 00:48:05,393
Speaker 3: It sound like a fetish.

1051
00:48:05,834 --> 00:48:07,873
Speaker 1: You don't need to shame. Keep all who just want

1052
00:48:07,914 --> 00:48:10,634
Speaker 1: to see our amazing makeup tech on YouTube.

1053
00:48:10,714 --> 00:48:14,674
Speaker 4: We are there, will be back in your ears tomorrow.

1054
00:48:14,914 --> 00:48:18,034
Speaker 5: Bye.

1055
00:48:19,314 --> 00:48:19,553
Speaker 1: Mamma.

1056
00:48:19,634 --> 00:48:22,794
Speaker 4: Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

1057
00:48:22,834 --> 00:48:24,234
Speaker 4: we've recorded this podcast.