Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Monday, the fourth of November.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1: On the show Today, A woman's real time meltdown is
Speaker 1: top of the Australian TV ratings again. So why has
Speaker 1: even our home renno inspo now got a side of
Speaker 1: cheating scandal? Also, something has happened to Sunday while spending
Speaker 1: the day meal prepping is now they must have badge
Speaker 1: of honor And a famous woman has donated millions of
Speaker 1: dollars to an anti violence charity. Why does it feel
Speaker 1: a bit wrong? But first, take my Pamela.
Speaker 3: The American people want to start the chaos and end
Speaker 3: the DRAMAA with a cool new step Mamala pick backing
Speaker 3: our pajamaa's and watch a rum Pamela.
Speaker 4: That audios Kamala Harris making a surprise appearance on Saturday
Speaker 4: Night Live with Maya Rudolph, who's been impersonating her on
Speaker 4: the show through this election cycle and actually since twenty nineteen. Now,
Speaker 4: in case you missed it, it's the US election this week.
Speaker 4: Of course, can you hear my faintly hysterical life.
Speaker 1: Yes, you say up, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Interesting mood. I don't think that many of us are
Speaker 2: feeling very nearly.
Speaker 1: Hanging on by a thread.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say, I'd say mannik, yeah, yes, hysterical. The
Speaker 4: polls open on Wednesday, our time.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: Either you're full of existential fear and nausea about the
Speaker 4: results and you're refreshing the New York Times homepage until
Speaker 4: your thumb falls off, like me, or you have your
Speaker 4: fingers in your ears and you're singing, perhaps falla lulalla
Speaker 4: in a bid to drown out the.
Speaker 2: Noise, or or maybe a voting The third option.
Speaker 4: Is that you're mildly interested but don't really care what no.
Speaker 2: The fourth option is that you're a Trump supporter and
Speaker 2: you're also feeling really good.
Speaker 4: Well, no, everybody's nervous. It doesn't matter who.
Speaker 2: Are so tight. No one's feeling like a victory lap
Speaker 2: is imminent.
Speaker 4: Everyone's feeling tense. I think about the results, except for
Speaker 4: the people who are singing or don't really care. But
Speaker 4: no matter which of those categories you fall into, I
Speaker 4: just want to get you across some quick basics. The polls. Basically,
Speaker 4: nobody knows.
Speaker 1: Nobody has any idea.
Speaker 2: Every new pole is closer than the last pot, and
Speaker 2: it's close the poles I've ever made.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or they go there are two for her, two
Speaker 1: for him. One don't know. That's kind of it.
Speaker 4: And I'm clicking on a lot of stories that say
Speaker 4: this polster has predicted correctly every election result, and here's
Speaker 4: who he say he says is going to win. Or
Speaker 4: it's like a snail who has crawled in a particular direction.
Speaker 4: I've stopped looking at the poles. Those of us who
Speaker 4: lived through twenty sixteen were scarred by them.
Speaker 1: I've started asking my dog and seeing if the way
Speaker 1: that her ears twitched, there are any hints, any possible
Speaker 1: gives that.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Donald Trump was seen in a garbage truck looking
Speaker 4: a very unnatural shade of orange in a stunt that
Speaker 4: was designed to draw attention to the fact Joe Biden
Speaker 4: accidentally called Trump supporter's garbage. After one of the speakers
Speaker 4: at the Big Trump rally in Madison Square Garden in
Speaker 4: New York, Lass Week called the entire nation of Puerto
Speaker 4: Rico a floating pile of garbage.
Speaker 2: Cal did you guys see the Milwaukee rally where his
Speaker 2: mic wasn't working.
Speaker 1: Yes, Trump's mike.
Speaker 2: Trump's mike wasn't working, and he simulated Falatio on the
Speaker 2: microphone and then he threatened, He said, do you want
Speaker 2: to go see me basically knock out the people out
Speaker 2: the back. That was an interesting moment. I was way
Speaker 2: on the weekend and all anyone was doing was watching videos.
Speaker 2: They wanted to see the full video of him simulating
Speaker 2: the Falacio.
Speaker 4: I think he also in fact he did also suggest
Speaker 4: that people might want to go and shoot Liz Cheney,
Speaker 4: who is one of his critics, a former Republican in
Speaker 4: the face. And my favorite little morsel of the weekend
Speaker 4: is that Donald Trump has promised to put RFK Junior
Speaker 4: in charge of i think the Health Department if he wins,
Speaker 4: and RFK is excitedly announced on Twitter. He's i think
Speaker 4: a chair or a big part of the transition committee,
Speaker 4: so it's legit. He said that some of the things
Speaker 4: that Trump will do if he's elected is removed the
Speaker 4: fluoride in drinking water and ban vaccinations. So if Trump wins,
Speaker 4: maybe pop the surprise return of polio and measles on
Speaker 4: you bingo card for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: When are we going to know the result?
Speaker 1: However, our audience is feeling and as you say, we
Speaker 1: know some people are really into it and some people
Speaker 1: are like, stop talking about it. What are our plans?
Speaker 4: Yes, So, as I said, voting opens Wednesday our time,
Speaker 4: and experts say where I'm likely to know the result
Speaker 4: for four to ten days. But what I predict, because
Speaker 4: it's going to come down to a handful of votes
Speaker 4: in about three or four states, what I predict is
Speaker 4: that on the night of the election, which will be
Speaker 4: Wednesday our time Tuesday American time, Trump will hold a
Speaker 4: press conference into claar victory even though no will know,
Speaker 4: He'll just say I wont and then whatever happens, it
Speaker 4: will seem like either he did win and he just
Speaker 4: called victory or he has set up this whole narrative
Speaker 4: about stealing the O.
Speaker 2: It is so possible, though, like some people are saying,
Speaker 2: we probably won't know till the weekend, but it is
Speaker 2: possible that we'll know on Wednesday.
Speaker 4: If it's a landslide.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So either way, out louders, here's what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. We are not going to talk only about
Speaker 1: the American election at you, because I know that some
Speaker 1: of you will go Okay, we'll tune out about loud
Speaker 1: this week. We're going to be bringing you loads of distraction,
Speaker 1: loads of other content. But of course, the wonderful Amelia Lester,
Speaker 1: our expert, who is actually on Q and A tonight
Speaker 1: talking about this, is going to be in and out
Speaker 1: all week, and we all will do some bonus content
Speaker 1: either with Amelia and all of us, Amelia and Miya.
Speaker 1: We're going to be on it for you, So if
Speaker 1: you care, you can hear. And if you don't care,
Speaker 1: we've got loads of other gossips for you. All right,
Speaker 1: So I'm saying goodbye.
Speaker 4: I can't be on national television with having my marriage
Speaker 4: breaking down. I'm going home. I can't say I'll be returning.
Speaker 1: You can talk to Brad about the.
Speaker 4: Details, but unfortunately I can't do it anymore. I don't
Speaker 4: need to always be made.
Speaker 1: Out to be krabby and the bad guy anymore.
Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportunity, and I'm sorry couldn't start
Speaker 4: talking and I'm just so strung anymore.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, love me. A quarter of a million women
Speaker 1: have read a story on Mama here over the past
Speaker 1: week about a very particular drama unfolding on Australian reality TV.
Speaker 1: Now the block used to be used to be about
Speaker 1: home renovations.
Speaker 4: Was allo fun.
Speaker 3: Remember that.
Speaker 4: I remember Amity Dry who then released a song. I
Speaker 4: remember Gari and Was, who were the probably one of
Speaker 4: the first mainstream gay couples on a huge TV show.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to frighten you because that was twenty
Speaker 1: one years ago. I went and.
Speaker 4: Visited that block in Bondy. I was so into that show.
Speaker 4: Actually went and visited the set.
Speaker 1: I liked it before and after particlarly bathrooms and kitchens.
Speaker 1: Everybody really likes all that. Anyway, I was about to
Speaker 1: explain to you all what the block is, and then
Speaker 1: I looked up that it was twenty one years old,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think we're across it. I
Speaker 1: think we're broadly across it, right. But what you might
Speaker 1: be interested to know is that even though almost everything
Speaker 1: about TV has changed in the last twenty one years,
Speaker 1: the block is still a big deal. It still pulls
Speaker 1: in more than two million viewers on a Sunday night.
Speaker 1: It's the highest ratings show that nine has on bvod.
Speaker 1: You know, like watch it on demand, and because as
Speaker 1: you'd know if you watch it, almost the entire thing
Speaker 1: is sold for sponsorship and integration. It makes a lot
Speaker 1: of money, so it's still a big behemoth that you know,
Speaker 1: the network's very invested in making sure survives, thrives, keeps
Speaker 1: bringing in the dollars. But this past week the chat
Speaker 1: hasn't been about bathroom grout, which is disappointing. It's about
Speaker 1: a classic reality show villain who also happens to be
Speaker 1: a woman, who is almost always the case. And if
Speaker 1: you've been paying any attention to this, you probably know
Speaker 1: that a woman called Kylie's personal life is being milked
Speaker 1: for ratings. And depending on where you sit on this,
Speaker 1: she's either only got herself to blame or she's being
Speaker 1: roundly exploited. What happened is Kylie. She's thirty seven years old.
Speaker 1: She's a hairdresser from Cans. She and her husband Brad,
Speaker 1: have four little kids, and they are competing on this
Speaker 1: season of the Block, along obviously with other people, which
Speaker 1: is being filmed in Philip Island and in Victoria right.
Speaker 1: She said that she and Brad came on the show
Speaker 1: for a break from the grind of parenting and to
Speaker 1: make some money, because one of the big appeals about
Speaker 1: the block is often the contestants do make big money,
Speaker 1: not always because it all depends on what the house
Speaker 1: goes for, but it is one of those shows right
Speaker 1: where they can walk away with life changing money. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: what's been life changing for Kylie, rather than the money,
Speaker 1: has been her husband openly flirting with another contestant on
Speaker 1: the show, telling Mimi, one of the other contestants on
Speaker 1: camera that he would love to follow her on OnlyFans
Speaker 1: if she has an account, and that he'd like to
Speaker 1: take her for a drink when all this is over.
Speaker 4: Did he know it was being filmed? I mean, I
Speaker 4: guess they all know they're being filmed all the time.
Speaker 2: So his wife, Kylie was napping near him, but he
Speaker 2: assumed that she was really napping. I think Kylie may
Speaker 2: have overheard. Yeah, and that was all surprised was recorded,
Speaker 2: but also it's on TV exactly. There was no getting
Speaker 2: away from it, and Kylie was pissed off and she
Speaker 2: left and then she came back and as well as
Speaker 2: apparently dumping Brad on TV, she also gave Scotti Kam
Speaker 2: a big serve. She said under her breath, on the
Speaker 2: show when he was judging her garden, her back garden,
Speaker 2: that she fucking hates that guy and may have called
Speaker 2: him a fat sea word about about Scott cam on
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: So that never goes down. Well, now, we've all seen
Speaker 1: this play out before in one form or another, and
Speaker 1: the audience in the comments in out Louder's show this
Speaker 1: are very divided. They either think that she's an ungrateful
Speaker 1: and titled so and so, or they think that she's
Speaker 1: a woman married to a bit of a dickhead having
Speaker 1: her personal life exploited for ratings. Either way, it's symptomatic
Speaker 1: of how so many TV shows, even if they're meant
Speaker 1: to be about paving and palm trees, have been gamified. Jesse,
Speaker 1: you she's sorry?
Speaker 4: Why is she ungrateful for not being happy?
Speaker 1: Because because if you're watching the show, which a lot
Speaker 1: about Louders are, they're like, before all the cheating stuff,
Speaker 1: she she wasn't there that and rude about this and that,
Speaker 1: and like so there's more drama underneath it, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And then this has happened, and
Speaker 1: so they're like saying, well, you know, what did she expect?
Speaker 1: And she's ungreat blah blah. But then a lot of
Speaker 1: other people are absolutely defending her and saying she clearly
Speaker 1: isn't okay. We shouldn't be watching this on TV. While
Speaker 1: watching it on TV, Jesse used to write about the
Speaker 1: drama of reality TV shows that were more specifically created
Speaker 1: for drama, like Married at First Sight and The Bachelor
Speaker 1: and all those things. But now we can't have our
Speaker 1: cooking or our home renovating or anything without it. What
Speaker 1: is that about?
Speaker 2: I reckon it is because the words and it would
Speaker 2: happen every season like clockwork, probably about oh well, actually,
Speaker 2: by the end of Claire and I recapping Married at
Speaker 2: First Sight, it happened multiple times a season because it
Speaker 2: caused such a spike. But the two words cheating scandal
Speaker 2: were ratings gold, and it was like, it was incredible
Speaker 2: what it did to ratings, how it got everyone interested,
Speaker 2: how people wanted to talk about it, they wanted to
Speaker 2: know the ins and outs. The other thing that happened
Speaker 2: in maybe the final season that Claire and I recapped
Speaker 2: was the advent of OnlyFans, which became very fun because
Speaker 2: suddenly and the block is different because it's marketed to
Speaker 2: a different audience. The block is more complicated because people
Speaker 2: watch it with their kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a family show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Married at first sight wasn't so when OnlyFans came
Speaker 2: up and then it started this broader conversation about shame
Speaker 2: and nudity and sexualization and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: So do you mean that the contestants went on these
Speaker 4: shows and then started only fans accounts, or they had
Speaker 4: only fans accounts where they could sell monetize.
Speaker 2: It was like the discovery the season that I'm thinking
Speaker 2: of the discovery of one contestant having an only fans
Speaker 2: put on the table like an ethical discussion about whether
Speaker 2: or not that was a good or a bad thing.
Speaker 2: So she was shamed by another contestant who came on
Speaker 2: and said but.
Speaker 4: Ever since, probably the most the only organic season of
Speaker 4: reality TV was that first season of Big Brother with
Speaker 4: Sarah Marie where nobody knew about sponsorship deals. I mean,
Speaker 4: this is even pre social media, right every season afterwards,
Speaker 4: you know, I was there in the audience when Sarah
Speaker 4: Marii came out and everybody was wearing bunny ears. She
Speaker 4: didn't make a cent out of the sale of bunny ears.
Speaker 4: And then what they found in subsequent seasons is that
Speaker 4: everybody would go in what's going to be my bunny?
Speaker 6: Is?
Speaker 4: How am I going to make money out of this?
Speaker 4: Which is fine, I understand that. So you're saying that
Speaker 4: only fans wrapped it up again and it has.
Speaker 1: Become part of the thing.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So people used to say they go on for Instagram followers,
Speaker 1: and you know you do, but also you can go
Speaker 1: on to build an audience who you think can then
Speaker 1: sell you only fans too if you're a hot sex
Speaker 1: So you don't get paid much to go on these shows,
Speaker 1: do you.
Speaker 2: Know, And it just offered another element of titillation. It
Speaker 2: probably in terms of the rating and in terms of
Speaker 2: the audience skewed it a little bit more because they
Speaker 2: were having different compass. But I think, you know, to
Speaker 2: go granular for a moment into the dynamics of a
Speaker 2: cheating scandal, like people do want to come to work
Speaker 2: on a Monday and talk about whether their husband saying
Speaker 2: to another woman I'd follow you on only fans if
Speaker 2: you had an account it's cheating or not, Like that's
Speaker 2: a genuinely interesting conversation. So look, I think it's coming
Speaker 2: for all forms of entertainment, which we've seen. But I'm
Speaker 2: going to go on a tangent because I was watching
Speaker 2: something over the weekend that just crystallized a whole lot
Speaker 2: of disparate things that I'm seeing. So I mentioned on
Speaker 2: the show the other week that I was watching Mister McMahon,
Speaker 2: which is about Vince McMahon, who is the co founder
Speaker 2: of WWA Wrestling. And as a kid, did you guys
Speaker 2: ever watch it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I loved it, Hulk Hogan, Ye, Andre the Giant, Yes,
Speaker 4: loved it.
Speaker 2: So as a kid, I was vaguely aware of it,
Speaker 2: but I never was super into it. But it's like
Speaker 2: my whole childhood and adolescence now makes sense because everything
Speaker 2: from what the boys did in my primary school to
Speaker 2: terms they used is like, oh, that was a wrestling thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to put a pro wrestling framework on
Speaker 2: top of the evolution of reality television and then bring
Speaker 2: that into American polity.
Speaker 1: Okay, go Jesse.
Speaker 2: This is what my essay is about.
Speaker 1: From what next PhD is going to be.
Speaker 2: This is a thesis early eighties. You're talking whole Hogan,
Speaker 2: Andre the Giant. There's a heel. A heel is known
Speaker 2: as like the villain, and then there's a face who's
Speaker 2: the hero, and it's all confected, but no one cares
Speaker 2: right good and baddies, goodies and baddies, And there's an arena.
Speaker 2: There were arenas I think now still eighty thousand people
Speaker 2: in an arena just screaming like they're so they want
Speaker 2: to root for someone, they want to boo for someone else.
Speaker 2: There's something almost gladiatorial about the energy in it and
Speaker 2: the aim of the game. For McMahon, who I imagine
Speaker 2: now as a modern day TV producer, was what he
Speaker 2: refers to as heat. So it doesn't matter if they're
Speaker 2: booing or they're cheering, or they hate you or they
Speaker 2: have names for you, there is heat. They can they care.
Speaker 4: Engagement, there is an engagement.
Speaker 2: And so it doesn't matter if everyone's saying iffing, hate
Speaker 2: the blow. It's really degenerated. Whatever you're watching it, you're
Speaker 2: talking about it, Yeah, like good publicity exactly, which she
Speaker 2: is Trump. Yes. So this is the thing that's what
Speaker 2: keeps you coming back. It's rivalry, it's storylines. It's about
Speaker 2: seeing the worst parts of ourselves as well. It's like,
Speaker 2: if the lives we're living is order, we need to
Speaker 2: see the chaos so.
Speaker 4: It's like a soap opera but grafted onto something that
Speaker 4: is supposedly real, like a reality show, because they've always
Speaker 4: been soap opera is yeah for a long time. Wrestling
Speaker 4: is supposedly real.
Speaker 1: It's a sport, but people don't really care whether it
Speaker 1: is real do which is almost similar to reality TV.
Speaker 1: Nobody really cares if it's real or not, except every
Speaker 1: now and again. And this is what's happening right now
Speaker 1: today with Kylie. We all get reminded that there is
Speaker 1: a human at the bottom of this because one of
Speaker 1: the things she said, we're all sitting around going is
Speaker 1: it cheating that he wants? But she said, the thing
Speaker 1: that really upset me is that he never flirts with
Speaker 1: me like that. Now, that is a very human, vulnerable
Speaker 1: thing that so many of us could relate to. It
Speaker 1: reminds you that there's a woman at the bottom of
Speaker 1: all this who is real, no matter how much of
Speaker 1: a caricature she is on the TV. And she might
Speaker 1: as well be Hulk Cogan or whoever it's like, she's not.
Speaker 2: She is a real pers I reckon that. That's part
Speaker 2: of what makes it so interesting is trying to work
Speaker 2: out where the line is where the reality is, where
Speaker 2: the confected drama is that is incredibly engaging, and the
Speaker 2: reality is that this stuff works. And so then when
Speaker 2: we go to the Trump who's been accused of making
Speaker 2: politics into reality TV, I think he's made it into rest.
Speaker 4: He has, and he's a creature of the eighties exactly.
Speaker 2: So in the documentary the show actually features Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: He's really good mates with Vince McMahon. He's just obsessed
Speaker 2: with wrestling, and I think it has informed his character
Speaker 2: more than anything else. Like the idea of the mocking
Speaker 2: the trash talking like crazy Kamala, Comrade Kamala, like he
Speaker 2: always has a name. They repeating things when the audience
Speaker 2: likes it, generating heat. He's made it into this circle.
Speaker 4: This is why he was He found president being almost
Speaker 4: weird because you've always got to be not the victim.
Speaker 4: But if you're the good guy, which he always is,
Speaker 4: you've got to have bad guys. So when you're the president,
Speaker 4: he's always victimizing himself because he has to create a
Speaker 4: narrative where he's fighting against somebody.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the reality is I even thought about him
Speaker 2: in that rally saying I'm going to go out and
Speaker 2: you know, hit the guy backstage or whatever. I can't
Speaker 2: lose my shit at work this week, right, Like, I've
Speaker 2: got to keep it all together, and I've got to
Speaker 2: be polite, and I have to act in a certain way,
Speaker 2: and I have to wear this mask in the wrestling
Speaker 2: ring on reality TV. In American politics, they get to
Speaker 2: just rip the mask off. That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2: I think that's why it's cathartic for us to see that.
Speaker 2: It's like it is chaos to our order.
Speaker 1: The thing is yes, and that's why we as we've
Speaker 1: talked about a lot when we've been talking about the election,
Speaker 1: Trump's great strength is that he is very exciting. At
Speaker 1: some point, though, this shit has to get old because
Speaker 1: we've now been living in Trump's world for ten years, right.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you go back to that comparison
Speaker 1: with reality TV, is we sort of swing between you know,
Speaker 1: remember when My Kitchen Rules was really popular because everybody
Speaker 1: liked watching the couples be horrible to each other. But
Speaker 1: then that kind of tanked and everyone went back to
Speaker 1: Master Chef because that was about being nice to each
Speaker 1: other and people's sob stories. And then you're kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're a bit sick of that now and we want
Speaker 1: to It's like back to the tri We all oscillate
Speaker 1: between them because we know deep down that it's not
Speaker 1: good for us to marinate constantly in drama and negativity,
Speaker 1: but positivity is so boring.
Speaker 4: Having not looked at the Block for twenty years, probably
Speaker 4: after since that first season, and I was watching some
Speaker 4: clips before the show today, I was shocked by how
Speaker 4: the married at first sight of it all has been
Speaker 4: transposed onto this home renovation program, or I guess on
Speaker 4: my kitchen rules, onto this cooking program.
Speaker 1: It's like they want their cake and eating it. Though
Speaker 1: it obviously works to a point, because you know, if
Speaker 1: you look at what the outlauders said about the Block,
Speaker 1: they some of them are saying, I used to watch
Speaker 1: it with my kids. Then I saw this bullying going
Speaker 1: down this season, and I've stopped. And other people like
Speaker 1: the drama. But I guess what the producers are hoping
Speaker 1: is come for the bathroom, stay for the drama, or
Speaker 1: the other way around. Come for the drama, stay for
Speaker 1: the bathrooms.
Speaker 6: Like it's the you know what.
Speaker 2: The only thing it either escalates, which is what we've
Speaker 2: seen on Married at First side is it has to
Speaker 2: escalate every season to kind of retain its viewership or
Speaker 2: sponsors pool. Because if I'm a sponsor, there's a line,
Speaker 2: there's a line, right, But if I'm a family show,
Speaker 2: and there's different from Married at First site, because that
Speaker 2: makes a lot of money in a different way. But
Speaker 2: here you've got some of the most big conservative brands
Speaker 2: in Australia putting themselves inside this show exactly, and that's
Speaker 2: when it might change.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I also think the other thing that's so predictable
Speaker 1: is that today everybody's loving all the headlines about Kylie
Speaker 1: and all the things, and in about a week everybody
Speaker 1: will be very sad about Kylie. And it's like we've
Speaker 1: been through this before, guys.
Speaker 2: In a moment, from label containers to life hacks, what
Speaker 2: has happened to our Sundays? Have you noticed something has
Speaker 2: happened to Sundays? What is meant to be a day
Speaker 2: of rest or maybe seeing family socializing. I would argue
Speaker 2: for sleep ins has been co opted and I, for one,
Speaker 2: shall not stand for it. You might have seen an
Speaker 2: article over the weekend in the Sydney Morning Herald by
Speaker 2: Giselle Onion newan that asked, how do you say I'm
Speaker 2: in my mid thirties without saying I'm in my mid thirties.
Speaker 2: The answer she posited is meal prep.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so young.
Speaker 2: I have only just started meal prep and I'm about
Speaker 2: to turn thirty four.
Speaker 4: There you go, right on time, So spot on, I
Speaker 4: don't do it.
Speaker 2: Actually, she writes that she loves planning out a week
Speaker 2: of meals, shopping for the ingredients, spending a Sunday cooking
Speaker 2: it all, and then dividing it into neat little container.
Speaker 2: It's what all the TikTokers do in the day in
Speaker 2: the Life videos, and now there are whole books written
Speaker 2: about it. Sunday meal prep has infiltrated at homes around
Speaker 2: the world, But I reckon, there's more. Why do I
Speaker 2: suddenly feel like I need to have an everything shower
Speaker 2: on a Sunday? I need to dee clean my house.
Speaker 2: I need to get ahead for the week, get all
Speaker 2: the laundry done, and lay my clothes out, dust my
Speaker 2: skirting boards, journal, meditate Sunday feels like work in order
Speaker 2: to make the actual work go more smoothly. Do you
Speaker 2: guys get the sense that you're meant to have totally
Speaker 2: optimized your Sunday.
Speaker 1: Holy yes, I do, and it makes me very anxious.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to make you less anxious, right, because it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be if you sort everything out on Sunday,
Speaker 1: then the week will run really smoothly. But I often
Speaker 1: find I get very stressed on Sunday afternoons. And it's
Speaker 1: not the Sunday sads, you know, the Sunday sads has
Speaker 1: always been around that on Sunday night, as you start
Speaker 1: getting the dread about the week ahead, because you know,
Speaker 1: I like my job, I get to come in and
Speaker 1: hang out with you too. It's more that rising panic
Speaker 1: about all the things are meant to have sorted out
Speaker 1: for the week, and the problem I have with it,
Speaker 1: well two things. One is supposed to be a trade off, right,
Speaker 1: So the people who love to get everything prepped on
Speaker 1: a Sunday say, I'm trading a couple of hours on
Speaker 1: a Sunday for like a smoother week. But I would
Speaker 1: argue that Sunday afternoons and Tuesday evenings are not worth
Speaker 1: the same amount, you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, what's more valuable, what's more fun, what's more enjoyable,
Speaker 1: what's better a Sunday afternoon or a Tuesday evening.
Speaker 2: Okay, Sunday afternoon. But I want to ask it not equal.
Speaker 2: I keep hearing the term cooking burnout. Do you relate
Speaker 2: with that term?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, because every person who has a family has
Speaker 1: to cook all the time, so like every night it's
Speaker 1: like what's for dinner, what's for dinner, what's for dinner?
Speaker 1: And I understand that this helps with that, but you've
Speaker 1: still got the burnout of having to plan the whole week.
Speaker 1: But there's been a shift in cooking right because we
Speaker 1: all know, we were talking about it last week that
Speaker 1: the absolute juggernaut that is Recipe to Eats now, who
Speaker 1: had a new book out last week called Tonight. She
Speaker 1: is a very famous in Australia. She was a food blogger,
Speaker 1: I guess you would say, who has become a publishing sensation.
Speaker 1: And that's because her food is simple, hearty, works and
Speaker 1: does not take you four hours. It used to be
Speaker 1: that all the cool aspirational cooking books were like fancy
Speaker 1: things for dinner parties and like let's stuff a mushroom
Speaker 1: and let's like butterfly and whatever. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what your butterfly, but something you know, whereas that is
Speaker 1: not what this is about. This is about simple, grounded,
Speaker 1: real food that works. And I think the meal prep
Speaker 1: thing is adjacent because it's like this idea that we
Speaker 1: could solve all that chaos and aspiration by just doing
Speaker 1: it on Sundays.
Speaker 4: I wonder if Nigie's next book will be called Tomorrow
Speaker 4: subtitled and the rest of the week.
Speaker 1: She does have meal prep sections.
Speaker 2: Every cookbook has meal prep sections. Now, I didn't realize
Speaker 2: that does. I don't own that many cookbooks.
Speaker 4: What else is Sunday for? Confused?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's for enjoying yourself.
Speaker 4: I love pottering. My favorite thing to do on a
Speaker 4: Sunday is to have the whole day free and I
Speaker 4: potter and doing all of that organization, playing with my clothes,
Speaker 4: doing all my washing, doing my kids washing, sorting things
Speaker 4: into piles, reorganizing my bathroom, dyeing my eyebrows. I do
Speaker 4: my smoothie preps. Not every Sunday, but when I do
Speaker 4: my smoothie preps, which is my green smoothie, It's what
Speaker 4: I have for breakfast every day. It requires a lot
Speaker 4: of chopping of different things.
Speaker 1: Every two or.
Speaker 4: Three weeks, I'll go and buy all my greens, listen
Speaker 4: to a podcast, chop all my things up, put them
Speaker 4: all in little sandwich bags, pop them in the freezer.
Speaker 4: I feel so good?
Speaker 2: You are you about? It's only in the last few
Speaker 2: months I've heard about this concept of an everything shower.
Speaker 2: Do you have everything showers? And do you even know
Speaker 2: what they are?
Speaker 4: Of course I know what they are. It's so funny
Speaker 4: because last night my daughter came looking to pilfer some
Speaker 4: of my products and saying, I want to have in
Speaker 4: everything shower. Can I take your cleanser? Can I take
Speaker 4: you all these? Can I take you that I want to, like,
Speaker 4: exfoliate and do all of those things. I don't do
Speaker 4: it all in the shower for me, and everything shower
Speaker 4: just means do I shave my legs or because I
Speaker 4: do everything in the shower every time I have a shower.
Speaker 4: I wash my hair every time I have a shower. Sorry,
Speaker 4: every time I have a shower in the morning during
Speaker 4: the week, I wash my hair and I cleanse, you know,
Speaker 4: once or twice every day. And I don't use like
Speaker 4: body scrubs or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So I like an everything shower too, And my daughter
Speaker 1: definitely hasn't everything about every Sunday night. Sunday night is
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 4: It's about like, oh, I need it all done by Sunday.
Speaker 1: But Sunday is supposed to be fun. And the problem
Speaker 1: with the stress of the having everything sorted is now
Speaker 1: if I do what is supposed to be fun on Sunday,
Speaker 1: like go around for lunch at a friend's place, which
Speaker 1: is what I did yesterday.
Speaker 4: See, that's not fun for me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be. But if it is, like
Speaker 1: if it's a day that you normally catch up with family,
Speaker 1: see friends, Like, aren't we allowed to have two days
Speaker 1: where we're all to do what we want rather than
Speaker 1: one and another one that's just more work?
Speaker 4: But again, hold, it's subjective. So what you want to
Speaker 4: do on Sunday is go and see your friends and
Speaker 4: lie around. What I want to do on a Sunday
Speaker 4: is potter and organize my life. So all of this
Speaker 4: stuff that is just what one does on a Sunday
Speaker 4: is just my happy place.
Speaker 1: However, but that's fine for us to be different. But
Speaker 1: the thing is is what this is about saying everybody
Speaker 1: should be doing that, that Sundays.
Speaker 2: Should predate yeah, and that it's about optimization and life
Speaker 2: hacks and productivity and all that kind.
Speaker 4: And we all know there's different kinds of rest, right
Speaker 4: So to you though, right, so it's up to you.
Speaker 4: There's no one policing you saying that it feels like,
Speaker 4: don't go to luck. That's on you.
Speaker 1: But I feel pressure. It's the guts on you.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting though that meal prepping, Like, to me,
Speaker 2: that's quite new, right. I remember ten years ago, meal
Speaker 2: prepping was for the gym bros. If I knew someone,
Speaker 2: and the dieters and the dieties. So the ones that
Speaker 2: I knew were like, they would do meat and veggies
Speaker 2: because they were really into fitness and they became obsessed
Speaker 2: with what they were going to eat. But now everyone
Speaker 2: does it.
Speaker 4: So the reason is the American Surgeon General, a guy
Speaker 4: I've been interviewed on No Filter, actually lovely guy, VIVC. Murphy.
Speaker 4: He released a couple of weeks ago a warning that
Speaker 4: parenting in the way that society is expecting us to
Speaker 4: parenting now and the pressure that parents are putting on
Speaker 4: themselves forget about being bad for the children. This form
Speaker 4: of intensive parenting is actually bad for the parents.
Speaker 2: We're talking about this on the show recently.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so to me, this spills into that. So it's like,
Speaker 4: if you want to be this organized and have everything
Speaker 4: done and make sure you're spending quality time with your
Speaker 4: children all day on Sunday, and then of course you're
Speaker 4: going to feel like you've got less time.
Speaker 2: See I disagree because I reckon that meal prepping is
Speaker 2: also a lot of people who don't.
Speaker 1: Have to oh very much a millennial thing.
Speaker 4: Oh no, I'm just saying everything in our lives right,
Speaker 4: everything that we're doing, I'm saying for parents, it's worse.
Speaker 4: I remember I used to have to do this when
Speaker 4: my kids are smaller, because it's also frigging school lunches,
Speaker 4: making sure you them, and uniforms to wash. So there's
Speaker 4: a whole thing if you've got kids. I mean, also,
Speaker 4: everybody's got less time because they're on tiktop more and
Speaker 4: they're on scholar.
Speaker 1: Meal prep content.
Speaker 2: This is my theory. My theory is that I read
Speaker 2: this really interesting article in the Cydney Morning Herald over
Speaker 2: the weekend about how Lifeline has had a record number
Speaker 2: of calls. Three hundred people are calling Lifeline a day
Speaker 2: on average about financial stress. Like we've talked about the
Speaker 2: cost of living crisis and how much Australian families are suffering.
Speaker 2: But this is so real, and I think that if
Speaker 2: you are on a really tight budget, if you cannot
Speaker 2: afford waste, if you need to think about every single ingredient,
Speaker 2: and we know that if you go and buy certain
Speaker 2: ingredients in bulk then it's cheaper. Like I think that
Speaker 2: families have had to get more organised definitely.
Speaker 1: Because of how much it's It saves you money, it
Speaker 1: reduces food waste, and usually it means your food will
Speaker 1: be healthier if your meal prep. There's no argument that
Speaker 1: it's generally a good thing.
Speaker 2: It's just two types of people.
Speaker 1: It's the two types of people thing, because the thing
Speaker 1: is it's generally a very good thing for lots of reasons,
Speaker 1: but it always seems to fall on the women generally speaking,
Speaker 1: except for the gym bros. And it has taken out
Speaker 1: another chunk of leisure time which you could be spending
Speaker 1: on TikTok.
Speaker 4: But I just think everybody's always like not everybody. People
Speaker 4: have always been doing this, just like being sick of
Speaker 4: cooking because you've had to make school lunches or family
Speaker 4: meals or I'm sick of cooking for myself and I
Speaker 4: don't even cook now it's called cooking burnout. And it's
Speaker 4: almost like we are creating names and sicknesses and conditions
Speaker 4: and phenomenons. And I know it's interesting sometimes to put
Speaker 4: a name around something, but part of it is just
Speaker 4: how you choose to use your time. I mean, supermarkets
Speaker 4: have discovered that it used to be that basket size
Speaker 4: used to be one big basket and people would do
Speaker 4: a weekly shop. Now people are more likely to have two, three, four, six,
Speaker 4: ten baskets a week, plus delivery for a milk run
Speaker 4: or you know, casal or whatever. We're living in a
Speaker 4: non demand society, so we're not thinking ahead, we're not
Speaker 4: planning ahead. And I think the reason that this is
Speaker 4: a big thing for millennials is that it's like, ah,
Speaker 4: for all the reasons you say, Jesse, like people have
Speaker 4: always done this to save money, to save time, and
Speaker 4: millennials suddenly feeling like they've got less time, maybe because
Speaker 4: they've had kids, maybe because of cost of living or
Speaker 4: a combination, are going, oh, now I have to spend
Speaker 4: my sundays doing all these things. It's like, dude, we've
Speaker 4: always done it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's definitely a cultural shift just in the
Speaker 1: water about the fact that it used to be seen
Speaker 1: as a bit of a sad thing, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, oh, you're going to eat leftovers through
Speaker 1: the week. Oh you have to plan your week as
Speaker 1: if you're worried about money, as if you're worried about health.
Speaker 3: Like that.
Speaker 1: That was a bit of a sad thing, but now
Speaker 1: now it's very But also now it's aspirational. It's like
Speaker 1: all the cool girls meal prep.
Speaker 4: But that's because it's content.
Speaker 1: It is content. But also I think that it's about control,
Speaker 1: you know what, you would just saying about this idea
Speaker 1: that so much of our lives is out of control.
Speaker 1: Now it feels that way. So it's like, if I
Speaker 1: can get everything in order on a Sunday, I'm wrestling
Speaker 1: back a bit of control, which I totally get. But
Speaker 1: I just think there's an interesting mood shift there about
Speaker 1: like it used to be a bit of a saddo
Speaker 1: thing and now it's a cool thing. Yeah, And you're right, Maa.
Speaker 1: It actually makes no difference whether you just need to
Speaker 1: do it or not. But it's like, is it worth
Speaker 1: taking a picture off in case.
Speaker 4: You missed it? Helen Miron's Roman Empire is Kurt Cobain.
Speaker 4: And if you think that there are too many nouns
Speaker 4: in that sentence that don't seem to belong together, you're right.
Speaker 4: During interview last week, the famous actress shared that she
Speaker 4: feels sad that Kurt Cobain, who was the lead singer
Speaker 4: of Nirvana in the nineties, She's sad that he's no
Speaker 4: longer alive because he never got the chance to experience GPS.
Speaker 5: And I always say it's so sad that Kurt Cobain
Speaker 5: died when he did because he never saw GPS. GPS
Speaker 5: is the most wonderful thing to what's my little blue
Speaker 5: spot walking down the street. I just find it completely
Speaker 5: magical and unbelievable.
Speaker 1: That's the reason that we're sad Kirk Cobain, Isn't it.
Speaker 2: Feel sad for so many reasons? And GPS doesn't make.
Speaker 4: What's interesting about this is that she uses him often
Speaker 4: as a way to talk about aging and about the
Speaker 4: progression of time. For example, in twenty fourteen, she told
Speaker 4: Oprah Winfrey, look at Kirk Cobain. He hardly even saw
Speaker 4: a computer. The digital stuff that's going on is so
Speaker 4: exciting I'm just so curious about what happens next.
Speaker 2: Is it that she feels like Kurt Cobain didn't die
Speaker 2: that long ago? Is it that that it's like he
Speaker 2: didn't die that long ago? And yet look at all
Speaker 2: the things she obviously.
Speaker 4: Thinks about him all the time, and she's like, what
Speaker 4: would Kurt Cobain say about this? In twenty fifteen, she
Speaker 4: said to Cosmopolitan magazine, I was thinking about Kurt Cobain
Speaker 4: the other day and he died without knowing the Internet.
Speaker 4: And I'm totally blown away by that. And then the
Speaker 4: year after, she said to The Daily Mail, if I
Speaker 4: died at twenty seven, the age that Kurt Cobain died
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety four, I'd never even have known that
Speaker 4: there was an Internet. Incredible things are happening all the time,
Speaker 4: and I can't wait to see what comes next.
Speaker 1: I love her. After the Break, we unpack Anna Kendrick's
Speaker 1: Lattice movie and what's been called the Blake Lively Effect.
Speaker 4: Out loud as If you want to listen to us
Speaker 4: every day of the week, you can get access to
Speaker 4: exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum
Speaker 4: and mea subscriber. Follow the link in the show notes
Speaker 4: to subscribe and support us, and a big thank you
Speaker 4: to all our current subscribers. Plot Twist, There's a story
Speaker 4: that made me furious on the weekend, and it's about
Speaker 4: someone donating a large amount of money to a charity
Speaker 4: for women. Let me unpack it for you and explain
Speaker 4: why I'm so grumpy. Anna Kendrick has said that she
Speaker 4: donated the fee she got from starring in and directed
Speaker 4: the hit Netflix true crime film Woman of the Hour.
Speaker 4: A lot of people are talking about that. It came
Speaker 4: out recently. It's about a woman who appeared on a
Speaker 4: nineteen seventies TV dating show and was matched with a
Speaker 4: serial killer in the midst of his crimes. Here she is,
Speaker 4: in her own words, telling an interviewer why she decided.
Speaker 7: To do this.
Speaker 6: And then I was just making the movie, making a movie,
Speaker 6: and we just barely made the deadline to get into
Speaker 6: TEFF and then it was like, oh, oh, there's like
Speaker 6: money going to be exchanging hands, and yeah, Like I
Speaker 6: sort of asked myself the question of like, do you
Speaker 6: feel gross about this?
Speaker 2: And I did, And so I'm not.
Speaker 4: Making money off of the movie.
Speaker 6: The money is going to or has gone to RAIN
Speaker 6: and to the National Center for Victims of Violent Crime,
Speaker 6: which was a charity that Matt Murphy recommended to me.
Speaker 4: So RAIN is a huge charity in the US that
Speaker 4: supports victims of domestic violence and sexual abuse. And look,
Speaker 4: why am I angry about it rich Hollywood celebrity donating
Speaker 4: money to charity. This is the reason. And now, of
Speaker 4: course it's not about the charity and the donation, because
Speaker 4: the charities have said how grateful they are. Of course
Speaker 4: they are. Netflix has made a huge amount of money
Speaker 4: from this. They paid eleven million dollars for the rights
Speaker 4: to make it and a Kendrick not to start in it,
Speaker 4: but she also directed it. It was watched twenty three
Speaker 4: million times in the two weeks after its release, so
Speaker 4: it's clearly a big, big success for the platform. But
Speaker 4: what worries me about this is that it is an
Speaker 4: example of something that I've come to think of as
Speaker 4: the Blake Lively effect, which is, if you remember, recently,
Speaker 4: Blake Lively made a movie called It Ends with Us
Speaker 4: where she got criticized hugely for centering herself in the
Speaker 4: publicity and the marketing of the film, even though she
Speaker 4: was the literal star of it, and she got attacked
Speaker 4: for wearing clothes on the red carpet that were too
Speaker 4: nice and apparently distracted from the experience of domestic violence victims,
Speaker 4: and that really impacted on how the movie was received
Speaker 4: and Blake Clively's reputation, and so clearly, fearing those same attacks,
Speaker 4: Anna Kendrick decided to preempt a Pylon. I'm not saying
Speaker 4: she didn't also have these good intentions, and who might
Speaker 4: doubt them, But my question is, are the actors who
Speaker 4: play men who abuse and murder women donating their salaries?
Speaker 4: Or is it just the women? Is it just the
Speaker 4: women who play their victims, because the last time I
Speaker 4: checked actors like zac Efron and David Tennant in Rivals
Speaker 4: and Channing Tatum, who was in Blink twice recently, all
Speaker 4: of whom are great actors, but have played men who've
Speaker 4: murdered and raped women. Did they donate their pay? And
Speaker 4: is this now the expectation of every woman who tells
Speaker 4: a story, either in film or in TV shows or
Speaker 4: in even books that depicts the abuse of women, Because
Speaker 4: to me, this does not seem like progress. Jesse, tell
Speaker 4: me why I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: Your instinct was my initial instinct, and now I've changed
Speaker 2: my mind. Not tell you I Justin Baldoni, who did
Speaker 2: it ends with us. He coins a production company, Wayfair Studios.
Speaker 2: He was the director, and he was the director and
Speaker 2: he played, yeah course, alongside Blake Lively. I reckon that
Speaker 2: what Anna Kendrick is doing is actually the Justin Baldoni effect,
Speaker 2: not the Blake Lively effect. And I say that because
Speaker 2: he partnered with the No More Foundation to provide resources
Speaker 2: and information related to the abuse.
Speaker 4: To picked it only afterwards, only after people came for Blake.
Speaker 2: I thought that, but then I checked, and it's even
Speaker 2: in the credits. They from the beginning, and he actually
Speaker 2: had partnered with them and worked with them prior. So
Speaker 2: he is very much a purpose based every project that
Speaker 2: he does, he is very much about how do I
Speaker 2: make the world better. That's how he presents and part
Speaker 2: of the ethos of his company. And so I think
Speaker 2: in that way, there is this trend towards if you're
Speaker 2: dealing with a really big issue like this, rather than
Speaker 2: be seen to be profiting off at how can you
Speaker 2: give back? And I think that Justin Baldoni, I agree
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 4: That infuriates me because do you know what's going to happen.
Speaker 4: People won't make these movies anymore. They won't make these
Speaker 4: TV shows, they won't tell these stories. Instead, they'll be
Speaker 4: a movie where they can keep all the tens of mine.
Speaker 2: But Anna Kendrick is worth an estimated and this is
Speaker 2: always highly contested, an estimated twenty million dollars. So Anna
Speaker 2: Kendrick does need the money, just like Justin Baldoni. And
Speaker 2: you know what, he didn't donate his salary from.
Speaker 4: But are we going to say that every celebrity who's
Speaker 4: got more money than us doesn't need it? No, no, no,
Speaker 4: But if that's and shouldn't be paid for their work, if.
Speaker 2: That's Anna Kendrick's choice, that she looked at it and went,
Speaker 2: I've actually got enough money. I'm doing this as a
Speaker 2: passion project and I want to donate. I agree with
Speaker 2: you that the expectation on women is a lot higher
Speaker 2: and that we demand women show us their wounds. In
Speaker 2: that Call her Daddy interview, I think in order to
Speaker 2: justify why she would make this film, she had to
Speaker 2: tell us about an abusive relationship. How long did that
Speaker 2: abusive relationship that you endured last?
Speaker 6: It didn't follow the traditional pattern, which is kind of
Speaker 6: yet another reason why I was finding it really difficult
Speaker 6: to identify it and name it as abusive, okay, because
Speaker 6: I was like reading all the articles and going like,
Speaker 6: this doesn't look like some of it looks like how
Speaker 6: they're describing it, but not completely. So the relationship was
Speaker 6: seven years. It was like an overnight switch.
Speaker 2: And you know what, that could also be really helpful
Speaker 2: to women. But we saw it this week too with
Speaker 2: Jackie O. Jackie O has released her memoir, which we
Speaker 2: talked about on the show, and there was a lot
Speaker 2: of criticism. I saw it everywhere about how she was
Speaker 2: profiting off like talking about her drug abut and she's
Speaker 2: only telling us this so that she can make money
Speaker 2: off it. And she's come out and said all proceeds
Speaker 2: are now being donated.
Speaker 4: It's her story in her life.
Speaker 2: Holy what do you think?
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's complicated because my instinct is me
Speaker 1: is too, is that I do think that women like
Speaker 1: I can't even think of how many TV shows I've seen,
Speaker 1: the movies I've seen where a man is an abusive
Speaker 1: killer and nobody it's a whole show.
Speaker 2: The director, it's the directed element. It was the fact
Speaker 2: that she directed it. It's not the character.
Speaker 1: No, no, I get all that, but I also kind
Speaker 1: of wonder if that is the case. I also kind
Speaker 1: of wonder if she was the star of this. But
Speaker 1: there are some nuances that are worth mentioning because this
Speaker 1: isn't actually a movie about domestic violence. This is a
Speaker 1: straight up serial killer movie, right. It's not about an
Speaker 1: abusive relationship. The woman involved in it in real life
Speaker 1: she never went on a date with this guy. In
Speaker 1: the movie, she does go on one date with this guy,
Speaker 1: but that's not actually what it's about. This is much
Speaker 1: more squarely in the very classic serial killer genre of
Speaker 1: a movie.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: The thing about that, the positive thing about that, you
Speaker 1: could argue, is that maybe we finally learn a lesson
Speaker 1: about the fact that we have been watching culture that
Speaker 1: hangs off dead women and murdered women and women you know,
Speaker 1: who are raped and abused and have to start with
Speaker 1: a body. We all know those tropes, right, We've been
Speaker 1: watching unthinkingly and handing over our money to the storytellers
Speaker 1: of those things for a very long time, and finally
Speaker 1: we're kind of going hold on, isn't it a bit
Speaker 1: weird that we're all so happy to just consume this
Speaker 1: kind of content unquestionably, and often the serial killers end
Speaker 1: up almost being pin ups. If you think about Jamie
Speaker 1: Dornan in The Fall, or like our obsession with a
Speaker 1: character like Hannibal Lecter or whatever, that we erase the victim,
Speaker 1: and now culturally we are focused on the victims, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a good thing. I think the thing
Speaker 1: that's a bit depressing about this is if it is
Speaker 1: a defensive crouch, which it may well be, like as in,
Speaker 1: if the people who made this movie, including Anna Kendrick,
Speaker 1: saw what happened to It Ends with Us, which went
Speaker 1: on to be a massive smash by the way, and
Speaker 1: make everybody involved a lot of money and presumably also
Speaker 1: the charities involved a lot of money. So that's a
Speaker 1: good thing. But if they watched what happened to Blake
Speaker 1: Lively and Anna Kendrick was like, I do not want
Speaker 1: that to happen to me. I do also do not
Speaker 1: want that to overshadow this entire campaign and me talking
Speaker 1: about this movie that I really believe in and so
Speaker 1: we're going to do this. That's a bit sad because
Speaker 1: we can all feel so helpless about violence against women.
Speaker 1: So in another way, is the ultimate outcome a positive
Speaker 1: one for the wrong reasons almost you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I feel that way about it too,
Speaker 4: But it's more that this will now be the expectation,
Speaker 4: but only for the women before we go.
Speaker 2: I came across this story on the BBC over the
Speaker 2: weekend about how weird it is that Australians don't wear shoes.
Speaker 2: It's been called one of the weirdest, perplexing, odd and
Speaker 2: unexplainable Australian cultural habits.
Speaker 1: But this, what do you mean, like where it's an
Speaker 1: entirely true. This is one of the things that absolutely
Speaker 1: boggled my mind when I first came to Australia, and
Speaker 1: I've actually got an American friend who moved home because
Speaker 1: of all the barefootness. Is like, shall I face Trump's America?
Speaker 1: Or am I dealing with bare toes in the supermarket queue?
Speaker 1: I think I'm going back to Trumps.
Speaker 2: See, apparently it can be explained right because in the
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties, Australia was marketed to migrants as somewhere
Speaker 2: you could take your shoes off because it was warm
Speaker 2: and the lifestyle was laid back. It was everyone's just
Speaker 2: walking around badfoot. But for a lot of overseas visitors,
Speaker 2: this is what it said. It's this odd thing that
Speaker 2: they've noticed and they really really don't like it.
Speaker 4: What don't they like about it because it's smelly?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, they just think have some decorrent.
Speaker 4: Well they're clearly not on wiki feed no.
Speaker 2: Exactly, but like last night, Oh.
Speaker 1: My god, Paradise for Food. In fact, Tourre's Australia is
Speaker 1: missing a trick. This is how we should be marketing
Speaker 1: Australian feet, the most beautiful feet in the world, and
Speaker 1: you can see them everywhere.
Speaker 4: Maybe I could be the foot of Australian.
Speaker 2: Tours because everyone knows it's actually very good for your feet. Holleen, Well,
Speaker 2: here's the thing that.
Speaker 1: Is So when I was young and I came to
Speaker 1: Australia and I noticed this, I used to love it.
Speaker 1: I remember going on holiday from work in my first
Speaker 1: job in Australia and being like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: wear shoes for two weeks, Like that's the mark of
Speaker 1: a holiday, you know what I mean. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to walk around Barron Bay or wherever I was, like
Speaker 1: some backpackery town with no shoes on and I'm going
Speaker 1: to feel so free and now I'm old. I look
Speaker 1: at people and I'm like, put some shoes on. I'm like,
Speaker 1: no shoes, no shoes.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: I had to do some shopping, like supermarket shopping yesterday,
Speaker 2: and Luke came and met me and he had no
Speaker 2: shoes on, and I went. The journey of my life
Speaker 2: is discovering where the line is. Because I found myself
Speaker 2: in a westfield with no shoes on, and I've gone
Speaker 2: across the line.
Speaker 4: How did you get into a west fo So I
Speaker 4: kind of needed to.
Speaker 2: Just go in and like duck in and get something.
Speaker 2: And maybe I was on my way home from the beach.
Speaker 2: Because the rule is within two caves of a beach,
Speaker 2: no shoes within two k's of my house. I feel like,
Speaker 2: no shoes within five within two k's.
Speaker 1: Of your house. Like if I would you walk to
Speaker 1: the corner shop with no shoes on? Yes? Really on
Speaker 1: a pavement in the city.
Speaker 4: But firstly, what are you stepping on? Second? Have you
Speaker 4: seen what people do on the footpath? Have you seen
Speaker 4: that it's a suburban Have you not seen people hoyke
Speaker 4: one onto the footpath?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: You know what it'd be good for the immune system.
Speaker 2: It's good for the foot. It's good for the foot
Speaker 2: because we shouldn't be in shoes all the time.
Speaker 4: Do you know what my kids freak out if I'm
Speaker 4: wearing shoes in my house.
Speaker 1: That freaks out in the house.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, See, it's funny always looking at where the
Speaker 4: line is. So every night I take the dogs out
Speaker 4: for a walk just to go to the toilet, I
Speaker 4: just take them across the road. And I don't like
Speaker 4: not wearing shoes because then those same feet get into
Speaker 4: my bed.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you got to watch them.
Speaker 1: Do you know who's wearing shoes? People who live in
Speaker 1: the country, snakes. You would not see anyone walking around
Speaker 1: a proper country as town with no shoes. Thanks.
Speaker 4: You also get very rough skin on your feet if
Speaker 4: you wear bare feet, so then you have to add
Speaker 4: an extra step to your everything, Sharon a Sunday night,
Speaker 4: which is exfoliating your feet.
Speaker 1: With one of those foot files Thomas Stones.
Speaker 2: We ask people in the Mummere office if they're guilty
Speaker 2: of not wearing shoes, and here's what they told us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm guilty.
Speaker 7: I'm very much known for being barefoot in the supermarket
Speaker 7: all the time because I never have enough time to
Speaker 7: pop up for a shop, so I never put shoes on.
Speaker 4: There's a time and a place, for sure.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't go barefoot in the office, but I'm a
Speaker 7: fan of getting my dogs out, which basically means I
Speaker 7: love wearing sandals or thongs everywhere.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, absolutely not. I have a bit of tact,
Speaker 2: thank you. It depends on where, Like, if it's a
Speaker 2: beach town, then yes. If you're more than three hundred
Speaker 2: away from a beach, no.
Speaker 1: No, that's absolutely vile, absolutely fucking not. People deserve jail
Speaker 1: time who do that in public. It's a visual assault
Speaker 1: on my eyes.
Speaker 7: Listen, I'm a bit of a shoe person, so the
Speaker 7: barefoot thing worries me. It's less about what other people
Speaker 7: think and more about me tripping, hurting my toe or
Speaker 7: falling over and embarrassing myself.
Speaker 4: One thing you made noticed if you follow us in
Speaker 4: your pod feed, I don't know what you call it anymore.
Speaker 4: It used to be called subscribing to a podcast. Now
Speaker 4: it's called following a podcast. Anyway, we have been dropping
Speaker 4: some little treats, and we're going to continue to drop
Speaker 4: some extra little treats, particularly on the weekend, just other
Speaker 4: little shows that Jesse, Holly or I might have made,
Speaker 4: or things that we think you might be interested in
Speaker 4: listening to.
Speaker 2: But if you're worried that you can't find your Friday episode,
Speaker 2: scroll back. Promise you it's there.
Speaker 1: It's there. That's everything from us today out louders as ever,
Speaker 1: huge thank you to all of you for being with
Speaker 1: the three of us on this Monday. As I say,
Speaker 1: we will be here all week with your American US
Speaker 1: gossip and otherwise and we couldn't do it without you.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye. Shout
Speaker 1: out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you love
Speaker 1: the show and you want to support us, subscribing to
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 1: There's a link in the episode description.