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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what

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Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Monday, the fourth of November.

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Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 1: On the show Today, A woman's real time meltdown is

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Speaker 1: top of the Australian TV ratings again. So why has

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Speaker 1: even our home renno inspo now got a side of

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Speaker 1: cheating scandal? Also, something has happened to Sunday while spending

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Speaker 1: the day meal prepping is now they must have badge

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Speaker 1: of honor And a famous woman has donated millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars to an anti violence charity. Why does it feel

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Speaker 1: a bit wrong? But first, take my Pamela.

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Speaker 3: The American people want to start the chaos and end

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Speaker 3: the DRAMAA with a cool new step Mamala pick backing

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Speaker 3: our pajamaa's and watch a rum Pamela.

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Speaker 4: That audios Kamala Harris making a surprise appearance on Saturday

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Speaker 4: Night Live with Maya Rudolph, who's been impersonating her on

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Speaker 4: the show through this election cycle and actually since twenty nineteen. Now,

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Speaker 4: in case you missed it, it's the US election this week.

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Speaker 4: Of course, can you hear my faintly hysterical life.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you say up, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Interesting mood. I don't think that many of us are

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Speaker 2: feeling very nearly.

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Speaker 1: Hanging on by a thread.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't say, I'd say mannik, yeah, yes, hysterical. The

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Speaker 4: polls open on Wednesday, our time.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 4: Either you're full of existential fear and nausea about the

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Speaker 4: results and you're refreshing the New York Times homepage until

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Speaker 4: your thumb falls off, like me, or you have your

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Speaker 4: fingers in your ears and you're singing, perhaps falla lulalla

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Speaker 4: in a bid to drown out the.

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Speaker 2: Noise, or or maybe a voting The third option.

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Speaker 4: Is that you're mildly interested but don't really care what no.

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Speaker 2: The fourth option is that you're a Trump supporter and

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Speaker 2: you're also feeling really good.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, everybody's nervous. It doesn't matter who.

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Speaker 2: Are so tight. No one's feeling like a victory lap

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Speaker 2: is imminent.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's feeling tense. I think about the results, except for

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Speaker 4: the people who are singing or don't really care. But

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Speaker 4: no matter which of those categories you fall into, I

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Speaker 4: just want to get you across some quick basics. The polls. Basically,

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Speaker 4: nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: Nobody has any idea.

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Speaker 2: Every new pole is closer than the last pot, and

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Speaker 2: it's close the poles I've ever made.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or they go there are two for her, two

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Speaker 1: for him. One don't know. That's kind of it.

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Speaker 4: And I'm clicking on a lot of stories that say

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Speaker 4: this polster has predicted correctly every election result, and here's

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Speaker 4: who he say he says is going to win. Or

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Speaker 4: it's like a snail who has crawled in a particular direction.

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Speaker 4: I've stopped looking at the poles. Those of us who

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Speaker 4: lived through twenty sixteen were scarred by them.

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Speaker 1: I've started asking my dog and seeing if the way

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Speaker 1: that her ears twitched, there are any hints, any possible

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Speaker 1: gives that.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Donald Trump was seen in a garbage truck looking

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Speaker 4: a very unnatural shade of orange in a stunt that

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Speaker 4: was designed to draw attention to the fact Joe Biden

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Speaker 4: accidentally called Trump supporter's garbage. After one of the speakers

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Speaker 4: at the Big Trump rally in Madison Square Garden in

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Speaker 4: New York, Lass Week called the entire nation of Puerto

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Speaker 4: Rico a floating pile of garbage.

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Speaker 2: Cal did you guys see the Milwaukee rally where his

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Speaker 2: mic wasn't working.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Trump's mike.

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Speaker 2: Trump's mike wasn't working, and he simulated Falatio on the

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Speaker 2: microphone and then he threatened, He said, do you want

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Speaker 2: to go see me basically knock out the people out

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Speaker 2: the back. That was an interesting moment. I was way

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Speaker 2: on the weekend and all anyone was doing was watching videos.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to see the full video of him simulating

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Speaker 2: the Falacio.

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Speaker 4: I think he also in fact he did also suggest

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Speaker 4: that people might want to go and shoot Liz Cheney,

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Speaker 4: who is one of his critics, a former Republican in

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Speaker 4: the face. And my favorite little morsel of the weekend

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Speaker 4: is that Donald Trump has promised to put RFK Junior

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Speaker 4: in charge of i think the Health Department if he wins,

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Speaker 4: and RFK is excitedly announced on Twitter. He's i think

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Speaker 4: a chair or a big part of the transition committee,

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Speaker 4: so it's legit. He said that some of the things

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Speaker 4: that Trump will do if he's elected is removed the

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Speaker 4: fluoride in drinking water and ban vaccinations. So if Trump wins,

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Speaker 4: maybe pop the surprise return of polio and measles on

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Speaker 4: you bingo card for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: When are we going to know the result?

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Speaker 1: However, our audience is feeling and as you say, we

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Speaker 1: know some people are really into it and some people

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Speaker 1: are like, stop talking about it. What are our plans?

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Speaker 4: Yes, So, as I said, voting opens Wednesday our time,

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Speaker 4: and experts say where I'm likely to know the result

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Speaker 4: for four to ten days. But what I predict, because

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Speaker 4: it's going to come down to a handful of votes

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Speaker 4: in about three or four states, what I predict is

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Speaker 4: that on the night of the election, which will be

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Speaker 4: Wednesday our time Tuesday American time, Trump will hold a

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Speaker 4: press conference into claar victory even though no will know,

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Speaker 4: He'll just say I wont and then whatever happens, it

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Speaker 4: will seem like either he did win and he just

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Speaker 4: called victory or he has set up this whole narrative

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Speaker 4: about stealing the O.

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Speaker 2: It is so possible, though, like some people are saying,

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Speaker 2: we probably won't know till the weekend, but it is

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Speaker 2: possible that we'll know on Wednesday.

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Speaker 4: If it's a landslide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So either way, out louders, here's what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. We are not going to talk only about

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Speaker 1: the American election at you, because I know that some

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Speaker 1: of you will go Okay, we'll tune out about loud

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Speaker 1: this week. We're going to be bringing you loads of distraction,

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Speaker 1: loads of other content. But of course, the wonderful Amelia Lester,

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Speaker 1: our expert, who is actually on Q and A tonight

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Speaker 1: talking about this, is going to be in and out

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Speaker 1: all week, and we all will do some bonus content

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Speaker 1: either with Amelia and all of us, Amelia and Miya.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be on it for you, So if

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Speaker 1: you care, you can hear. And if you don't care,

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Speaker 1: we've got loads of other gossips for you. All right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm saying goodbye.

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Speaker 4: I can't be on national television with having my marriage

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Speaker 4: breaking down. I'm going home. I can't say I'll be returning.

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Speaker 1: You can talk to Brad about the.

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Speaker 4: Details, but unfortunately I can't do it anymore. I don't

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Speaker 4: need to always be made.

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Speaker 1: Out to be krabby and the bad guy anymore.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportunity, and I'm sorry couldn't start

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Speaker 4: talking and I'm just so strung anymore.

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Speaker 1: Thanks guys, love me. A quarter of a million women

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Speaker 1: have read a story on Mama here over the past

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Speaker 1: week about a very particular drama unfolding on Australian reality TV.

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Speaker 1: Now the block used to be used to be about

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Speaker 1: home renovations.

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Speaker 4: Was allo fun.

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Speaker 3: Remember that.

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Speaker 4: I remember Amity Dry who then released a song. I

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Speaker 4: remember Gari and Was, who were the probably one of

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Speaker 4: the first mainstream gay couples on a huge TV show.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to frighten you because that was twenty

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Speaker 1: one years ago. I went and.

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Speaker 4: Visited that block in Bondy. I was so into that show.

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Speaker 4: Actually went and visited the set.

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Speaker 1: I liked it before and after particlarly bathrooms and kitchens.

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Speaker 1: Everybody really likes all that. Anyway, I was about to

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Speaker 1: explain to you all what the block is, and then

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Speaker 1: I looked up that it was twenty one years old,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I think we're across it. I

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Speaker 1: think we're broadly across it, right. But what you might

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Speaker 1: be interested to know is that even though almost everything

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Speaker 1: about TV has changed in the last twenty one years,

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Speaker 1: the block is still a big deal. It still pulls

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Speaker 1: in more than two million viewers on a Sunday night.

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Speaker 1: It's the highest ratings show that nine has on bvod.

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Speaker 1: You know, like watch it on demand, and because as

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Speaker 1: you'd know if you watch it, almost the entire thing

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Speaker 1: is sold for sponsorship and integration. It makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, so it's still a big behemoth that you know,

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Speaker 1: the network's very invested in making sure survives, thrives, keeps

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Speaker 1: bringing in the dollars. But this past week the chat

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Speaker 1: hasn't been about bathroom grout, which is disappointing. It's about

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Speaker 1: a classic reality show villain who also happens to be

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Speaker 1: a woman, who is almost always the case. And if

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Speaker 1: you've been paying any attention to this, you probably know

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Speaker 1: that a woman called Kylie's personal life is being milked

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Speaker 1: for ratings. And depending on where you sit on this,

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Speaker 1: she's either only got herself to blame or she's being

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Speaker 1: roundly exploited. What happened is Kylie. She's thirty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: She's a hairdresser from Cans. She and her husband Brad,

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Speaker 1: have four little kids, and they are competing on this

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Speaker 1: season of the Block, along obviously with other people, which

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Speaker 1: is being filmed in Philip Island and in Victoria right.

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Speaker 1: She said that she and Brad came on the show

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Speaker 1: for a break from the grind of parenting and to

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Speaker 1: make some money, because one of the big appeals about

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Speaker 1: the block is often the contestants do make big money,

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Speaker 1: not always because it all depends on what the house

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Speaker 1: goes for, but it is one of those shows right

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Speaker 1: where they can walk away with life changing money. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: what's been life changing for Kylie, rather than the money,

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Speaker 1: has been her husband openly flirting with another contestant on

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Speaker 1: the show, telling Mimi, one of the other contestants on

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Speaker 1: camera that he would love to follow her on OnlyFans

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Speaker 1: if she has an account, and that he'd like to

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Speaker 1: take her for a drink when all this is over.

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Speaker 4: Did he know it was being filmed? I mean, I

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Speaker 4: guess they all know they're being filmed all the time.

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Speaker 2: So his wife, Kylie was napping near him, but he

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Speaker 2: assumed that she was really napping. I think Kylie may

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Speaker 2: have overheard. Yeah, and that was all surprised was recorded,

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Speaker 2: but also it's on TV exactly. There was no getting

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Speaker 2: away from it, and Kylie was pissed off and she

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Speaker 2: left and then she came back and as well as

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Speaker 2: apparently dumping Brad on TV, she also gave Scotti Kam

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Speaker 2: a big serve. She said under her breath, on the

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Speaker 2: show when he was judging her garden, her back garden,

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Speaker 2: that she fucking hates that guy and may have called

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Speaker 2: him a fat sea word about about Scott cam on

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 1: So that never goes down. Well, now, we've all seen

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Speaker 1: this play out before in one form or another, and

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Speaker 1: the audience in the comments in out Louder's show this

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Speaker 1: are very divided. They either think that she's an ungrateful

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Speaker 1: and titled so and so, or they think that she's

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Speaker 1: a woman married to a bit of a dickhead having

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Speaker 1: her personal life exploited for ratings. Either way, it's symptomatic

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Speaker 1: of how so many TV shows, even if they're meant

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Speaker 1: to be about paving and palm trees, have been gamified. Jesse,

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Speaker 1: you she's sorry?

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Speaker 4: Why is she ungrateful for not being happy?

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Speaker 1: Because because if you're watching the show, which a lot

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Speaker 1: about Louders are, they're like, before all the cheating stuff,

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Speaker 1: she she wasn't there that and rude about this and that,

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Speaker 1: and like so there's more drama underneath it, do you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? And then this has happened, and

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Speaker 1: so they're like saying, well, you know, what did she expect?

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Speaker 1: And she's ungreat blah blah. But then a lot of

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Speaker 1: other people are absolutely defending her and saying she clearly

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Speaker 1: isn't okay. We shouldn't be watching this on TV. While

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Speaker 1: watching it on TV, Jesse used to write about the

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Speaker 1: drama of reality TV shows that were more specifically created

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Speaker 1: for drama, like Married at First Sight and The Bachelor

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Speaker 1: and all those things. But now we can't have our

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Speaker 1: cooking or our home renovating or anything without it. What

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Speaker 1: is that about?

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Speaker 2: I reckon it is because the words and it would

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Speaker 2: happen every season like clockwork, probably about oh well, actually,

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Speaker 2: by the end of Claire and I recapping Married at

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Speaker 2: First Sight, it happened multiple times a season because it

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Speaker 2: caused such a spike. But the two words cheating scandal

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Speaker 2: were ratings gold, and it was like, it was incredible

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Speaker 2: what it did to ratings, how it got everyone interested,

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Speaker 2: how people wanted to talk about it, they wanted to

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Speaker 2: know the ins and outs. The other thing that happened

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Speaker 2: in maybe the final season that Claire and I recapped

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Speaker 2: was the advent of OnlyFans, which became very fun because

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Speaker 2: suddenly and the block is different because it's marketed to

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Speaker 2: a different audience. The block is more complicated because people

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Speaker 2: watch it with their kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a family show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Married at first sight wasn't so when OnlyFans came

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Speaker 2: up and then it started this broader conversation about shame

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Speaker 2: and nudity and sexualization and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: So do you mean that the contestants went on these

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Speaker 4: shows and then started only fans accounts, or they had

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Speaker 4: only fans accounts where they could sell monetize.

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Speaker 2: It was like the discovery the season that I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: of the discovery of one contestant having an only fans

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Speaker 2: put on the table like an ethical discussion about whether

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Speaker 2: or not that was a good or a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: So she was shamed by another contestant who came on

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Speaker 2: and said but.

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Speaker 4: Ever since, probably the most the only organic season of

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Speaker 4: reality TV was that first season of Big Brother with

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Speaker 4: Sarah Marie where nobody knew about sponsorship deals. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is even pre social media, right every season afterwards,

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Speaker 4: you know, I was there in the audience when Sarah

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Speaker 4: Marii came out and everybody was wearing bunny ears. She

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Speaker 4: didn't make a cent out of the sale of bunny ears.

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Speaker 4: And then what they found in subsequent seasons is that

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Speaker 4: everybody would go in what's going to be my bunny?

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Speaker 6: Is?

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Speaker 4: How am I going to make money out of this?

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Speaker 4: Which is fine, I understand that. So you're saying that

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Speaker 4: only fans wrapped it up again and it has.

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Speaker 1: Become part of the thing.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So people used to say they go on for Instagram followers,

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Speaker 1: and you know you do, but also you can go

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Speaker 1: on to build an audience who you think can then

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Speaker 1: sell you only fans too if you're a hot sex

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Speaker 1: So you don't get paid much to go on these shows,

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Speaker 1: do you.

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Speaker 2: Know, And it just offered another element of titillation. It

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Speaker 2: probably in terms of the rating and in terms of

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Speaker 2: the audience skewed it a little bit more because they

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Speaker 2: were having different compass. But I think, you know, to

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Speaker 2: go granular for a moment into the dynamics of a

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Speaker 2: cheating scandal, like people do want to come to work

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Speaker 2: on a Monday and talk about whether their husband saying

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Speaker 2: to another woman I'd follow you on only fans if

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Speaker 2: you had an account it's cheating or not, Like that's

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Speaker 2: a genuinely interesting conversation. So look, I think it's coming

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Speaker 2: for all forms of entertainment, which we've seen. But I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go on a tangent because I was watching

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Speaker 2: something over the weekend that just crystallized a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of disparate things that I'm seeing. So I mentioned on

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Speaker 2: the show the other week that I was watching Mister McMahon,

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Speaker 2: which is about Vince McMahon, who is the co founder

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Speaker 2: of WWA Wrestling. And as a kid, did you guys

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Speaker 2: ever watch it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I loved it, Hulk Hogan, Ye, Andre the Giant, Yes,

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Speaker 4: loved it.

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Speaker 2: So as a kid, I was vaguely aware of it,

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Speaker 2: but I never was super into it. But it's like

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Speaker 2: my whole childhood and adolescence now makes sense because everything

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Speaker 2: from what the boys did in my primary school to

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Speaker 2: terms they used is like, oh, that was a wrestling thing.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to put a pro wrestling framework on

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Speaker 2: top of the evolution of reality television and then bring

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Speaker 2: that into American polity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, go Jesse.

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Speaker 2: This is what my essay is about.

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Speaker 1: From what next PhD is going to be.

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Speaker 2: This is a thesis early eighties. You're talking whole Hogan,

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Speaker 2: Andre the Giant. There's a heel. A heel is known

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Speaker 2: as like the villain, and then there's a face who's

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Speaker 2: the hero, and it's all confected, but no one cares

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Speaker 2: right good and baddies, goodies and baddies, And there's an arena.

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Speaker 2: There were arenas I think now still eighty thousand people

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Speaker 2: in an arena just screaming like they're so they want

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Speaker 2: to root for someone, they want to boo for someone else.

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Speaker 2: There's something almost gladiatorial about the energy in it and

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Speaker 2: the aim of the game. For McMahon, who I imagine

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Speaker 2: now as a modern day TV producer, was what he

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Speaker 2: refers to as heat. So it doesn't matter if they're

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Speaker 2: booing or they're cheering, or they hate you or they

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Speaker 2: have names for you, there is heat. They can they care.

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Speaker 4: Engagement, there is an engagement.

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Speaker 2: And so it doesn't matter if everyone's saying iffing, hate

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Speaker 2: the blow. It's really degenerated. Whatever you're watching it, you're

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Speaker 2: talking about it, Yeah, like good publicity exactly, which she

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Speaker 2: is Trump. Yes. So this is the thing that's what

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Speaker 2: keeps you coming back. It's rivalry, it's storylines. It's about

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Speaker 2: seeing the worst parts of ourselves as well. It's like,

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Speaker 2: if the lives we're living is order, we need to

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Speaker 2: see the chaos so.

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Speaker 4: It's like a soap opera but grafted onto something that

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Speaker 4: is supposedly real, like a reality show, because they've always

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Speaker 4: been soap opera is yeah for a long time. Wrestling

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Speaker 4: is supposedly real.

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Speaker 1: It's a sport, but people don't really care whether it

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Speaker 1: is real do which is almost similar to reality TV.

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Speaker 1: Nobody really cares if it's real or not, except every

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Speaker 1: now and again. And this is what's happening right now

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Speaker 1: today with Kylie. We all get reminded that there is

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Speaker 1: a human at the bottom of this because one of

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Speaker 1: the things she said, we're all sitting around going is

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Speaker 1: it cheating that he wants? But she said, the thing

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Speaker 1: that really upset me is that he never flirts with

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Speaker 1: me like that. Now, that is a very human, vulnerable

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Speaker 1: thing that so many of us could relate to. It

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Speaker 1: reminds you that there's a woman at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: all this who is real, no matter how much of

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Speaker 1: a caricature she is on the TV. And she might

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Speaker 1: as well be Hulk Cogan or whoever it's like, she's not.

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Speaker 2: She is a real pers I reckon that. That's part

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Speaker 2: of what makes it so interesting is trying to work

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Speaker 2: out where the line is where the reality is, where

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Speaker 2: the confected drama is that is incredibly engaging, and the

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Speaker 2: reality is that this stuff works. And so then when

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Speaker 2: we go to the Trump who's been accused of making

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Speaker 2: politics into reality TV, I think he's made it into rest.

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Speaker 4: He has, and he's a creature of the eighties exactly.

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Speaker 2: So in the documentary the show actually features Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: He's really good mates with Vince McMahon. He's just obsessed

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Speaker 2: with wrestling, and I think it has informed his character

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Speaker 2: more than anything else. Like the idea of the mocking

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Speaker 2: the trash talking like crazy Kamala, Comrade Kamala, like he

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Speaker 2: always has a name. They repeating things when the audience

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Speaker 2: likes it, generating heat. He's made it into this circle.

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Speaker 4: This is why he was He found president being almost

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Speaker 4: weird because you've always got to be not the victim.

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Speaker 4: But if you're the good guy, which he always is,

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Speaker 4: you've got to have bad guys. So when you're the president,

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Speaker 4: he's always victimizing himself because he has to create a

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Speaker 4: narrative where he's fighting against somebody.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the reality is I even thought about him

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Speaker 2: in that rally saying I'm going to go out and

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Speaker 2: you know, hit the guy backstage or whatever. I can't

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Speaker 2: lose my shit at work this week, right, Like, I've

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Speaker 2: got to keep it all together, and I've got to

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Speaker 2: be polite, and I have to act in a certain way,

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Speaker 2: and I have to wear this mask in the wrestling

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Speaker 2: ring on reality TV. In American politics, they get to

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Speaker 2: just rip the mask off. That's what it feels like.

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Speaker 2: I think that's why it's cathartic for us to see that.

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Speaker 2: It's like it is chaos to our order.

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Speaker 1: The thing is yes, and that's why we as we've

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot when we've been talking about the election,

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Speaker 1: Trump's great strength is that he is very exciting. At

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Speaker 1: some point, though, this shit has to get old because

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Speaker 1: we've now been living in Trump's world for ten years, right.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you go back to that comparison

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Speaker 1: with reality TV, is we sort of swing between you know,

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Speaker 1: remember when My Kitchen Rules was really popular because everybody

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Speaker 1: liked watching the couples be horrible to each other. But

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Speaker 1: then that kind of tanked and everyone went back to

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Speaker 1: Master Chef because that was about being nice to each

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Speaker 1: other and people's sob stories. And then you're kind of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're a bit sick of that now and we want

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Speaker 1: to It's like back to the tri We all oscillate

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Speaker 1: between them because we know deep down that it's not

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Speaker 1: good for us to marinate constantly in drama and negativity,

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Speaker 1: but positivity is so boring.

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Speaker 4: Having not looked at the Block for twenty years, probably

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Speaker 4: after since that first season, and I was watching some

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Speaker 4: clips before the show today, I was shocked by how

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Speaker 4: the married at first sight of it all has been

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Speaker 4: transposed onto this home renovation program, or I guess on

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Speaker 4: my kitchen rules, onto this cooking program.

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Speaker 1: It's like they want their cake and eating it. Though

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Speaker 1: it obviously works to a point, because you know, if

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Speaker 1: you look at what the outlauders said about the Block,

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Speaker 1: they some of them are saying, I used to watch

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Speaker 1: it with my kids. Then I saw this bullying going

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Speaker 1: down this season, and I've stopped. And other people like

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Speaker 1: the drama. But I guess what the producers are hoping

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Speaker 1: is come for the bathroom, stay for the drama, or

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Speaker 1: the other way around. Come for the drama, stay for

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Speaker 1: the bathrooms.

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Speaker 6: Like it's the you know what.

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Speaker 2: The only thing it either escalates, which is what we've

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Speaker 2: seen on Married at First side is it has to

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Speaker 2: escalate every season to kind of retain its viewership or

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Speaker 2: sponsors pool. Because if I'm a sponsor, there's a line,

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Speaker 2: there's a line, right, But if I'm a family show,

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Speaker 2: and there's different from Married at First site, because that

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of money in a different way. But

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Speaker 2: here you've got some of the most big conservative brands

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Speaker 2: in Australia putting themselves inside this show exactly, and that's

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Speaker 2: when it might change.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I also think the other thing that's so predictable

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Speaker 1: is that today everybody's loving all the headlines about Kylie

427
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Speaker 1: and all the things, and in about a week everybody

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Speaker 1: will be very sad about Kylie. And it's like we've

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Speaker 1: been through this before, guys.

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Speaker 2: In a moment, from label containers to life hacks, what

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Speaker 2: has happened to our Sundays? Have you noticed something has

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Speaker 2: happened to Sundays? What is meant to be a day

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Speaker 2: of rest or maybe seeing family socializing. I would argue

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Speaker 2: for sleep ins has been co opted and I, for one,

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Speaker 2: shall not stand for it. You might have seen an

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Speaker 2: article over the weekend in the Sydney Morning Herald by

437
00:20:44,407 --> 00:20:47,847
Speaker 2: Giselle Onion newan that asked, how do you say I'm

438
00:20:47,887 --> 00:20:50,647
Speaker 2: in my mid thirties without saying I'm in my mid thirties.

439
00:20:51,087 --> 00:20:53,367
Speaker 2: The answer she posited is meal prep.

440
00:20:53,487 --> 00:20:54,207
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so young.

441
00:20:55,007 --> 00:20:56,847
Speaker 2: I have only just started meal prep and I'm about

442
00:20:56,847 --> 00:20:57,567
Speaker 2: to turn thirty four.

443
00:20:57,647 --> 00:21:00,207
Speaker 4: There you go, right on time, So spot on, I

444
00:21:00,247 --> 00:21:00,647
Speaker 4: don't do it.

445
00:21:00,727 --> 00:21:03,487
Speaker 2: Actually, she writes that she loves planning out a week

446
00:21:03,567 --> 00:21:06,687
Speaker 2: of meals, shopping for the ingredients, spending a Sunday cooking

447
00:21:06,727 --> 00:21:09,207
Speaker 2: it all, and then dividing it into neat little container.

448
00:21:09,687 --> 00:21:12,127
Speaker 2: It's what all the TikTokers do in the day in

449
00:21:12,207 --> 00:21:14,927
Speaker 2: the Life videos, and now there are whole books written

450
00:21:14,967 --> 00:21:18,887
Speaker 2: about it. Sunday meal prep has infiltrated at homes around

451
00:21:18,927 --> 00:21:21,567
Speaker 2: the world, But I reckon, there's more. Why do I

452
00:21:21,647 --> 00:21:23,807
Speaker 2: suddenly feel like I need to have an everything shower

453
00:21:23,887 --> 00:21:26,247
Speaker 2: on a Sunday? I need to dee clean my house.

454
00:21:26,487 --> 00:21:28,207
Speaker 2: I need to get ahead for the week, get all

455
00:21:28,247 --> 00:21:30,567
Speaker 2: the laundry done, and lay my clothes out, dust my

456
00:21:30,687 --> 00:21:35,447
Speaker 2: skirting boards, journal, meditate Sunday feels like work in order

457
00:21:35,527 --> 00:21:38,567
Speaker 2: to make the actual work go more smoothly. Do you

458
00:21:38,687 --> 00:21:41,727
Speaker 2: guys get the sense that you're meant to have totally

459
00:21:41,807 --> 00:21:43,287
Speaker 2: optimized your Sunday.

460
00:21:43,487 --> 00:21:47,567
Speaker 1: Holy yes, I do, and it makes me very anxious.

461
00:21:48,167 --> 00:21:50,767
Speaker 1: It's supposed to make you less anxious, right, because it's

462
00:21:50,767 --> 00:21:53,607
Speaker 1: supposed to be if you sort everything out on Sunday,

463
00:21:53,687 --> 00:21:56,527
Speaker 1: then the week will run really smoothly. But I often

464
00:21:56,647 --> 00:21:59,687
Speaker 1: find I get very stressed on Sunday afternoons. And it's

465
00:21:59,727 --> 00:22:01,727
Speaker 1: not the Sunday sads, you know, the Sunday sads has

466
00:22:01,727 --> 00:22:03,727
Speaker 1: always been around that on Sunday night, as you start

467
00:22:03,767 --> 00:22:05,927
Speaker 1: getting the dread about the week ahead, because you know,

468
00:22:06,007 --> 00:22:07,207
Speaker 1: I like my job, I get to come in and

469
00:22:07,287 --> 00:22:10,647
Speaker 1: hang out with you too. It's more that rising panic

470
00:22:10,727 --> 00:22:13,447
Speaker 1: about all the things are meant to have sorted out

471
00:22:13,527 --> 00:22:16,647
Speaker 1: for the week, and the problem I have with it,

472
00:22:16,727 --> 00:22:19,887
Speaker 1: well two things. One is supposed to be a trade off, right,

473
00:22:19,967 --> 00:22:21,927
Speaker 1: So the people who love to get everything prepped on

474
00:22:21,967 --> 00:22:25,007
Speaker 1: a Sunday say, I'm trading a couple of hours on

475
00:22:25,047 --> 00:22:28,567
Speaker 1: a Sunday for like a smoother week. But I would

476
00:22:28,687 --> 00:22:32,087
Speaker 1: argue that Sunday afternoons and Tuesday evenings are not worth

477
00:22:32,127 --> 00:22:33,247
Speaker 1: the same amount, you know.

478
00:22:33,207 --> 00:22:33,567
Speaker 3: What I mean?

479
00:22:33,647 --> 00:22:37,207
Speaker 1: Like, what's more valuable, what's more fun, what's more enjoyable,

480
00:22:37,527 --> 00:22:40,447
Speaker 1: what's better a Sunday afternoon or a Tuesday evening.

481
00:22:40,727 --> 00:22:43,327
Speaker 2: Okay, Sunday afternoon. But I want to ask it not equal.

482
00:22:43,527 --> 00:22:46,607
Speaker 2: I keep hearing the term cooking burnout. Do you relate

483
00:22:46,687 --> 00:22:47,127
Speaker 2: with that term?

484
00:22:47,207 --> 00:22:49,887
Speaker 1: Well, yes, because every person who has a family has

485
00:22:49,927 --> 00:22:51,927
Speaker 1: to cook all the time, so like every night it's

486
00:22:52,007 --> 00:22:53,607
Speaker 1: like what's for dinner, what's for dinner, what's for dinner?

487
00:22:54,047 --> 00:22:56,727
Speaker 1: And I understand that this helps with that, but you've

488
00:22:56,767 --> 00:22:59,287
Speaker 1: still got the burnout of having to plan the whole week.

489
00:22:59,727 --> 00:23:03,007
Speaker 1: But there's been a shift in cooking right because we

490
00:23:03,127 --> 00:23:05,007
Speaker 1: all know, we were talking about it last week that

491
00:23:05,487 --> 00:23:10,327
Speaker 1: the absolute juggernaut that is Recipe to Eats now, who

492
00:23:10,487 --> 00:23:12,567
Speaker 1: had a new book out last week called Tonight. She

493
00:23:12,767 --> 00:23:16,727
Speaker 1: is a very famous in Australia. She was a food blogger,

494
00:23:16,807 --> 00:23:20,567
Speaker 1: I guess you would say, who has become a publishing sensation.

495
00:23:20,727 --> 00:23:26,887
Speaker 1: And that's because her food is simple, hearty, works and

496
00:23:27,087 --> 00:23:28,847
Speaker 1: does not take you four hours. It used to be

497
00:23:28,967 --> 00:23:31,567
Speaker 1: that all the cool aspirational cooking books were like fancy

498
00:23:31,647 --> 00:23:34,807
Speaker 1: things for dinner parties and like let's stuff a mushroom

499
00:23:34,887 --> 00:23:37,287
Speaker 1: and let's like butterfly and whatever. I don't even know

500
00:23:37,327 --> 00:23:39,927
Speaker 1: what your butterfly, but something you know, whereas that is

501
00:23:40,047 --> 00:23:43,807
Speaker 1: not what this is about. This is about simple, grounded,

502
00:23:44,087 --> 00:23:47,007
Speaker 1: real food that works. And I think the meal prep

503
00:23:47,087 --> 00:23:49,607
Speaker 1: thing is adjacent because it's like this idea that we

504
00:23:49,687 --> 00:23:53,927
Speaker 1: could solve all that chaos and aspiration by just doing

505
00:23:53,967 --> 00:23:54,647
Speaker 1: it on Sundays.

506
00:23:54,807 --> 00:23:57,807
Speaker 4: I wonder if Nigie's next book will be called Tomorrow

507
00:23:58,407 --> 00:24:00,247
Speaker 4: subtitled and the rest of the week.

508
00:24:00,687 --> 00:24:01,967
Speaker 1: She does have meal prep sections.

509
00:24:03,127 --> 00:24:06,087
Speaker 2: Every cookbook has meal prep sections. Now, I didn't realize

510
00:24:06,127 --> 00:24:07,647
Speaker 2: that does. I don't own that many cookbooks.

511
00:24:07,687 --> 00:24:09,687
Speaker 4: What else is Sunday for? Confused?

512
00:24:09,687 --> 00:24:11,567
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's for enjoying yourself.

513
00:24:12,527 --> 00:24:15,767
Speaker 4: I love pottering. My favorite thing to do on a

514
00:24:15,887 --> 00:24:18,687
Speaker 4: Sunday is to have the whole day free and I

515
00:24:18,847 --> 00:24:24,047
Speaker 4: potter and doing all of that organization, playing with my clothes,

516
00:24:24,567 --> 00:24:29,487
Speaker 4: doing all my washing, doing my kids washing, sorting things

517
00:24:29,527 --> 00:24:34,247
Speaker 4: into piles, reorganizing my bathroom, dyeing my eyebrows. I do

518
00:24:34,367 --> 00:24:37,127
Speaker 4: my smoothie preps. Not every Sunday, but when I do

519
00:24:37,287 --> 00:24:39,407
Speaker 4: my smoothie preps, which is my green smoothie, It's what

520
00:24:39,447 --> 00:24:42,367
Speaker 4: I have for breakfast every day. It requires a lot

521
00:24:42,407 --> 00:24:43,687
Speaker 4: of chopping of different things.

522
00:24:44,327 --> 00:24:45,007
Speaker 1: Every two or.

523
00:24:45,047 --> 00:24:48,327
Speaker 4: Three weeks, I'll go and buy all my greens, listen

524
00:24:48,367 --> 00:24:50,527
Speaker 4: to a podcast, chop all my things up, put them

525
00:24:50,567 --> 00:24:52,727
Speaker 4: all in little sandwich bags, pop them in the freezer.

526
00:24:53,607 --> 00:24:54,447
Speaker 4: I feel so good?

527
00:24:54,647 --> 00:24:58,527
Speaker 2: You are you about? It's only in the last few

528
00:24:58,567 --> 00:25:00,767
Speaker 2: months I've heard about this concept of an everything shower.

529
00:25:01,327 --> 00:25:03,247
Speaker 2: Do you have everything showers? And do you even know

530
00:25:03,247 --> 00:25:03,607
Speaker 2: what they are?

531
00:25:04,127 --> 00:25:06,007
Speaker 4: Of course I know what they are. It's so funny

532
00:25:06,047 --> 00:25:09,007
Speaker 4: because last night my daughter came looking to pilfer some

533
00:25:09,087 --> 00:25:10,727
Speaker 4: of my products and saying, I want to have in

534
00:25:10,767 --> 00:25:13,007
Speaker 4: everything shower. Can I take your cleanser? Can I take

535
00:25:13,047 --> 00:25:14,967
Speaker 4: you all these? Can I take you that I want to, like,

536
00:25:15,367 --> 00:25:18,647
Speaker 4: exfoliate and do all of those things. I don't do

537
00:25:18,767 --> 00:25:21,087
Speaker 4: it all in the shower for me, and everything shower

538
00:25:21,247 --> 00:25:24,447
Speaker 4: just means do I shave my legs or because I

539
00:25:24,527 --> 00:25:26,407
Speaker 4: do everything in the shower every time I have a shower.

540
00:25:26,447 --> 00:25:28,767
Speaker 4: I wash my hair every time I have a shower. Sorry,

541
00:25:29,087 --> 00:25:31,767
Speaker 4: every time I have a shower in the morning during

542
00:25:31,807 --> 00:25:34,967
Speaker 4: the week, I wash my hair and I cleanse, you know,

543
00:25:35,167 --> 00:25:37,247
Speaker 4: once or twice every day. And I don't use like

544
00:25:37,647 --> 00:25:39,287
Speaker 4: body scrubs or anything like that.

545
00:25:39,567 --> 00:25:42,007
Speaker 1: So I like an everything shower too, And my daughter

546
00:25:42,247 --> 00:25:44,767
Speaker 1: definitely hasn't everything about every Sunday night. Sunday night is

547
00:25:44,847 --> 00:25:45,207
Speaker 1: about that.

548
00:25:45,447 --> 00:25:48,407
Speaker 4: It's about like, oh, I need it all done by Sunday.

549
00:25:48,567 --> 00:25:51,567
Speaker 1: But Sunday is supposed to be fun. And the problem

550
00:25:51,647 --> 00:25:53,847
Speaker 1: with the stress of the having everything sorted is now

551
00:25:53,887 --> 00:25:55,967
Speaker 1: if I do what is supposed to be fun on Sunday,

552
00:25:56,047 --> 00:25:57,687
Speaker 1: like go around for lunch at a friend's place, which

553
00:25:57,727 --> 00:25:58,607
Speaker 1: is what I did yesterday.

554
00:25:58,647 --> 00:25:59,687
Speaker 4: See, that's not fun for me.

555
00:26:00,447 --> 00:26:02,407
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be. But if it is, like

556
00:26:02,807 --> 00:26:05,167
Speaker 1: if it's a day that you normally catch up with family,

557
00:26:05,407 --> 00:26:08,607
Speaker 1: see friends, Like, aren't we allowed to have two days

558
00:26:08,647 --> 00:26:10,687
Speaker 1: where we're all to do what we want rather than

559
00:26:10,767 --> 00:26:12,647
Speaker 1: one and another one that's just more work?

560
00:26:12,807 --> 00:26:15,807
Speaker 4: But again, hold, it's subjective. So what you want to

561
00:26:15,847 --> 00:26:18,327
Speaker 4: do on Sunday is go and see your friends and

562
00:26:19,487 --> 00:26:22,927
Speaker 4: lie around. What I want to do on a Sunday

563
00:26:23,967 --> 00:26:26,767
Speaker 4: is potter and organize my life. So all of this

564
00:26:26,967 --> 00:26:29,807
Speaker 4: stuff that is just what one does on a Sunday

565
00:26:30,047 --> 00:26:31,727
Speaker 4: is just my happy place.

566
00:26:31,807 --> 00:26:33,807
Speaker 1: However, but that's fine for us to be different. But

567
00:26:33,887 --> 00:26:36,127
Speaker 1: the thing is is what this is about saying everybody

568
00:26:36,207 --> 00:26:38,047
Speaker 1: should be doing that, that Sundays.

569
00:26:37,727 --> 00:26:41,727
Speaker 2: Should predate yeah, and that it's about optimization and life

570
00:26:41,807 --> 00:26:43,767
Speaker 2: hacks and productivity and all that kind.

571
00:26:43,807 --> 00:26:45,567
Speaker 4: And we all know there's different kinds of rest, right

572
00:26:45,687 --> 00:26:48,087
Speaker 4: So to you though, right, so it's up to you.

573
00:26:48,207 --> 00:26:51,487
Speaker 4: There's no one policing you saying that it feels like,

574
00:26:51,647 --> 00:26:53,007
Speaker 4: don't go to luck. That's on you.

575
00:26:53,247 --> 00:26:55,527
Speaker 1: But I feel pressure. It's the guts on you.

576
00:26:55,727 --> 00:26:59,847
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting though that meal prepping, Like, to me,

577
00:26:59,967 --> 00:27:02,127
Speaker 2: that's quite new, right. I remember ten years ago, meal

578
00:27:02,167 --> 00:27:05,367
Speaker 2: prepping was for the gym bros. If I knew someone,

579
00:27:05,447 --> 00:27:07,687
Speaker 2: and the dieters and the dieties. So the ones that

580
00:27:07,807 --> 00:27:10,487
Speaker 2: I knew were like, they would do meat and veggies

581
00:27:10,607 --> 00:27:14,087
Speaker 2: because they were really into fitness and they became obsessed

582
00:27:14,127 --> 00:27:17,047
Speaker 2: with what they were going to eat. But now everyone

583
00:27:17,167 --> 00:27:17,447
Speaker 2: does it.

584
00:27:17,647 --> 00:27:20,607
Speaker 4: So the reason is the American Surgeon General, a guy

585
00:27:20,647 --> 00:27:23,847
Speaker 4: I've been interviewed on No Filter, actually lovely guy, VIVC. Murphy.

586
00:27:24,487 --> 00:27:27,567
Speaker 4: He released a couple of weeks ago a warning that

587
00:27:28,127 --> 00:27:32,167
Speaker 4: parenting in the way that society is expecting us to

588
00:27:32,287 --> 00:27:34,407
Speaker 4: parenting now and the pressure that parents are putting on

589
00:27:34,447 --> 00:27:37,767
Speaker 4: themselves forget about being bad for the children. This form

590
00:27:37,807 --> 00:27:40,167
Speaker 4: of intensive parenting is actually bad for the parents.

591
00:27:40,407 --> 00:27:41,887
Speaker 2: We're talking about this on the show recently.

592
00:27:42,087 --> 00:27:46,007
Speaker 4: Yeah, so to me, this spills into that. So it's like,

593
00:27:46,407 --> 00:27:49,287
Speaker 4: if you want to be this organized and have everything

594
00:27:49,447 --> 00:27:52,327
Speaker 4: done and make sure you're spending quality time with your

595
00:27:52,407 --> 00:27:55,727
Speaker 4: children all day on Sunday, and then of course you're

596
00:27:55,727 --> 00:27:57,207
Speaker 4: going to feel like you've got less time.

597
00:27:57,567 --> 00:27:59,807
Speaker 2: See I disagree because I reckon that meal prepping is

598
00:27:59,927 --> 00:28:01,207
Speaker 2: also a lot of people who don't.

599
00:28:01,047 --> 00:28:03,087
Speaker 1: Have to oh very much a millennial thing.

600
00:28:03,207 --> 00:28:05,487
Speaker 4: Oh no, I'm just saying everything in our lives right,

601
00:28:05,527 --> 00:28:08,127
Speaker 4: everything that we're doing, I'm saying for parents, it's worse.

602
00:28:08,167 --> 00:28:09,607
Speaker 4: I remember I used to have to do this when

603
00:28:09,647 --> 00:28:12,007
Speaker 4: my kids are smaller, because it's also frigging school lunches,

604
00:28:12,527 --> 00:28:16,767
Speaker 4: making sure you them, and uniforms to wash. So there's

605
00:28:16,767 --> 00:28:19,047
Speaker 4: a whole thing if you've got kids. I mean, also,

606
00:28:19,127 --> 00:28:21,887
Speaker 4: everybody's got less time because they're on tiktop more and

607
00:28:21,967 --> 00:28:23,247
Speaker 4: they're on scholar.

608
00:28:23,607 --> 00:28:24,567
Speaker 1: Meal prep content.

609
00:28:24,687 --> 00:28:28,247
Speaker 2: This is my theory. My theory is that I read

610
00:28:28,527 --> 00:28:31,407
Speaker 2: this really interesting article in the Cydney Morning Herald over

611
00:28:31,447 --> 00:28:34,527
Speaker 2: the weekend about how Lifeline has had a record number

612
00:28:34,567 --> 00:28:37,167
Speaker 2: of calls. Three hundred people are calling Lifeline a day

613
00:28:37,207 --> 00:28:40,207
Speaker 2: on average about financial stress. Like we've talked about the

614
00:28:40,247 --> 00:28:44,247
Speaker 2: cost of living crisis and how much Australian families are suffering.

615
00:28:44,287 --> 00:28:47,407
Speaker 2: But this is so real, and I think that if

616
00:28:47,487 --> 00:28:50,087
Speaker 2: you are on a really tight budget, if you cannot

617
00:28:50,087 --> 00:28:53,127
Speaker 2: afford waste, if you need to think about every single ingredient,

618
00:28:53,687 --> 00:28:55,367
Speaker 2: and we know that if you go and buy certain

619
00:28:55,487 --> 00:28:57,447
Speaker 2: ingredients in bulk then it's cheaper. Like I think that

620
00:28:57,647 --> 00:29:00,727
Speaker 2: families have had to get more organised definitely.

621
00:29:00,367 --> 00:29:02,687
Speaker 1: Because of how much it's It saves you money, it

622
00:29:02,767 --> 00:29:05,647
Speaker 1: reduces food waste, and usually it means your food will

623
00:29:05,647 --> 00:29:07,607
Speaker 1: be healthier if your meal prep. There's no argument that

624
00:29:07,647 --> 00:29:08,807
Speaker 1: it's generally a good thing.

625
00:29:09,327 --> 00:29:10,727
Speaker 2: It's just two types of people.

626
00:29:10,927 --> 00:29:12,887
Speaker 1: It's the two types of people thing, because the thing

627
00:29:12,967 --> 00:29:15,447
Speaker 1: is it's generally a very good thing for lots of reasons,

628
00:29:15,487 --> 00:29:18,047
Speaker 1: but it always seems to fall on the women generally speaking,

629
00:29:18,127 --> 00:29:21,407
Speaker 1: except for the gym bros. And it has taken out

630
00:29:21,487 --> 00:29:24,367
Speaker 1: another chunk of leisure time which you could be spending

631
00:29:24,407 --> 00:29:24,887
Speaker 1: on TikTok.

632
00:29:25,127 --> 00:29:27,887
Speaker 4: But I just think everybody's always like not everybody. People

633
00:29:27,967 --> 00:29:30,407
Speaker 4: have always been doing this, just like being sick of

634
00:29:30,487 --> 00:29:33,567
Speaker 4: cooking because you've had to make school lunches or family

635
00:29:33,647 --> 00:29:36,367
Speaker 4: meals or I'm sick of cooking for myself and I

636
00:29:36,407 --> 00:29:40,447
Speaker 4: don't even cook now it's called cooking burnout. And it's

637
00:29:40,567 --> 00:29:46,087
Speaker 4: almost like we are creating names and sicknesses and conditions

638
00:29:46,247 --> 00:29:49,567
Speaker 4: and phenomenons. And I know it's interesting sometimes to put

639
00:29:49,607 --> 00:29:52,927
Speaker 4: a name around something, but part of it is just

640
00:29:53,047 --> 00:29:55,407
Speaker 4: how you choose to use your time. I mean, supermarkets

641
00:29:55,447 --> 00:29:58,927
Speaker 4: have discovered that it used to be that basket size

642
00:29:59,327 --> 00:30:01,127
Speaker 4: used to be one big basket and people would do

643
00:30:01,167 --> 00:30:04,527
Speaker 4: a weekly shop. Now people are more likely to have two, three, four, six,

644
00:30:04,687 --> 00:30:07,887
Speaker 4: ten baskets a week, plus delivery for a milk run

645
00:30:08,047 --> 00:30:10,927
Speaker 4: or you know, casal or whatever. We're living in a

646
00:30:10,967 --> 00:30:13,767
Speaker 4: non demand society, so we're not thinking ahead, we're not

647
00:30:13,927 --> 00:30:16,207
Speaker 4: planning ahead. And I think the reason that this is

648
00:30:16,247 --> 00:30:19,487
Speaker 4: a big thing for millennials is that it's like, ah,

649
00:30:19,847 --> 00:30:21,847
Speaker 4: for all the reasons you say, Jesse, like people have

650
00:30:21,927 --> 00:30:24,607
Speaker 4: always done this to save money, to save time, and

651
00:30:24,727 --> 00:30:27,527
Speaker 4: millennials suddenly feeling like they've got less time, maybe because

652
00:30:27,527 --> 00:30:30,207
Speaker 4: they've had kids, maybe because of cost of living or

653
00:30:30,247 --> 00:30:33,847
Speaker 4: a combination, are going, oh, now I have to spend

654
00:30:33,927 --> 00:30:36,887
Speaker 4: my sundays doing all these things. It's like, dude, we've

655
00:30:36,927 --> 00:30:37,567
Speaker 4: always done it.

656
00:30:37,887 --> 00:30:41,127
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's definitely a cultural shift just in the

657
00:30:41,247 --> 00:30:43,127
Speaker 1: water about the fact that it used to be seen

658
00:30:43,167 --> 00:30:44,727
Speaker 1: as a bit of a sad thing, you know what

659
00:30:44,767 --> 00:30:46,567
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, oh, you're going to eat leftovers through

660
00:30:46,607 --> 00:30:48,687
Speaker 1: the week. Oh you have to plan your week as

661
00:30:48,767 --> 00:30:50,847
Speaker 1: if you're worried about money, as if you're worried about health.

662
00:30:51,127 --> 00:30:51,367
Speaker 3: Like that.

663
00:30:51,487 --> 00:30:53,327
Speaker 1: That was a bit of a sad thing, but now

664
00:30:53,967 --> 00:30:56,407
Speaker 1: now it's very But also now it's aspirational. It's like

665
00:30:56,767 --> 00:30:58,447
Speaker 1: all the cool girls meal prep.

666
00:30:58,567 --> 00:31:00,807
Speaker 4: But that's because it's content.

667
00:31:00,927 --> 00:31:03,687
Speaker 1: It is content. But also I think that it's about control,

668
00:31:03,807 --> 00:31:05,487
Speaker 1: you know what, you would just saying about this idea

669
00:31:05,567 --> 00:31:07,767
Speaker 1: that so much of our lives is out of control.

670
00:31:07,847 --> 00:31:10,167
Speaker 1: Now it feels that way. So it's like, if I

671
00:31:10,247 --> 00:31:13,047
Speaker 1: can get everything in order on a Sunday, I'm wrestling

672
00:31:13,087 --> 00:31:14,727
Speaker 1: back a bit of control, which I totally get. But

673
00:31:14,807 --> 00:31:17,927
Speaker 1: I just think there's an interesting mood shift there about

674
00:31:18,007 --> 00:31:19,527
Speaker 1: like it used to be a bit of a saddo

675
00:31:19,647 --> 00:31:22,287
Speaker 1: thing and now it's a cool thing. Yeah, And you're right, Maa.

676
00:31:22,367 --> 00:31:24,487
Speaker 1: It actually makes no difference whether you just need to

677
00:31:24,527 --> 00:31:26,727
Speaker 1: do it or not. But it's like, is it worth

678
00:31:26,767 --> 00:31:29,607
Speaker 1: taking a picture off in case.

679
00:31:29,527 --> 00:31:32,487
Speaker 4: You missed it? Helen Miron's Roman Empire is Kurt Cobain.

680
00:31:32,967 --> 00:31:35,207
Speaker 4: And if you think that there are too many nouns

681
00:31:35,247 --> 00:31:38,447
Speaker 4: in that sentence that don't seem to belong together, you're right.

682
00:31:39,367 --> 00:31:43,567
Speaker 4: During interview last week, the famous actress shared that she

683
00:31:43,727 --> 00:31:47,207
Speaker 4: feels sad that Kurt Cobain, who was the lead singer

684
00:31:47,247 --> 00:31:50,767
Speaker 4: of Nirvana in the nineties, She's sad that he's no

685
00:31:50,887 --> 00:31:54,007
Speaker 4: longer alive because he never got the chance to experience GPS.

686
00:31:54,527 --> 00:31:58,647
Speaker 5: And I always say it's so sad that Kurt Cobain

687
00:31:58,847 --> 00:32:03,607
Speaker 5: died when he did because he never saw GPS. GPS

688
00:32:03,767 --> 00:32:07,167
Speaker 5: is the most wonderful thing to what's my little blue

689
00:32:07,247 --> 00:32:10,527
Speaker 5: spot walking down the street. I just find it completely

690
00:32:10,687 --> 00:32:12,127
Speaker 5: magical and unbelievable.

691
00:32:12,487 --> 00:32:14,567
Speaker 1: That's the reason that we're sad Kirk Cobain, Isn't it.

692
00:32:14,687 --> 00:32:18,087
Speaker 2: Feel sad for so many reasons? And GPS doesn't make.

693
00:32:18,687 --> 00:32:23,247
Speaker 4: What's interesting about this is that she uses him often

694
00:32:23,887 --> 00:32:27,687
Speaker 4: as a way to talk about aging and about the

695
00:32:27,727 --> 00:32:33,007
Speaker 4: progression of time. For example, in twenty fourteen, she told

696
00:32:33,087 --> 00:32:36,287
Speaker 4: Oprah Winfrey, look at Kirk Cobain. He hardly even saw

697
00:32:36,367 --> 00:32:39,047
Speaker 4: a computer. The digital stuff that's going on is so

698
00:32:39,207 --> 00:32:41,847
Speaker 4: exciting I'm just so curious about what happens next.

699
00:32:42,247 --> 00:32:44,527
Speaker 2: Is it that she feels like Kurt Cobain didn't die

700
00:32:44,647 --> 00:32:48,327
Speaker 2: that long ago? Is it that that it's like he

701
00:32:48,447 --> 00:32:50,207
Speaker 2: didn't die that long ago? And yet look at all

702
00:32:50,247 --> 00:32:51,807
Speaker 2: the things she obviously.

703
00:32:51,487 --> 00:32:54,327
Speaker 4: Thinks about him all the time, and she's like, what

704
00:32:54,487 --> 00:32:58,727
Speaker 4: would Kurt Cobain say about this? In twenty fifteen, she

705
00:32:58,807 --> 00:33:02,127
Speaker 4: said to Cosmopolitan magazine, I was thinking about Kurt Cobain

706
00:33:02,167 --> 00:33:04,767
Speaker 4: the other day and he died without knowing the Internet.

707
00:33:04,887 --> 00:33:07,167
Speaker 4: And I'm totally blown away by that. And then the

708
00:33:07,287 --> 00:33:09,847
Speaker 4: year after, she said to The Daily Mail, if I

709
00:33:10,047 --> 00:33:12,607
Speaker 4: died at twenty seven, the age that Kurt Cobain died

710
00:33:12,847 --> 00:33:15,647
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety four, I'd never even have known that

711
00:33:15,727 --> 00:33:18,527
Speaker 4: there was an Internet. Incredible things are happening all the time,

712
00:33:18,567 --> 00:33:19,967
Speaker 4: and I can't wait to see what comes next.

713
00:33:20,247 --> 00:33:23,887
Speaker 1: I love her. After the Break, we unpack Anna Kendrick's

714
00:33:23,967 --> 00:33:27,287
Speaker 1: Lattice movie and what's been called the Blake Lively Effect.

715
00:33:29,607 --> 00:33:31,207
Speaker 4: Out loud as If you want to listen to us

716
00:33:31,327 --> 00:33:33,447
Speaker 4: every day of the week, you can get access to

717
00:33:33,567 --> 00:33:37,367
Speaker 4: exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum

718
00:33:37,447 --> 00:33:40,127
Speaker 4: and mea subscriber. Follow the link in the show notes

719
00:33:40,167 --> 00:33:42,687
Speaker 4: to subscribe and support us, and a big thank you

720
00:33:42,927 --> 00:33:51,807
Speaker 4: to all our current subscribers. Plot Twist, There's a story

721
00:33:51,887 --> 00:33:55,087
Speaker 4: that made me furious on the weekend, and it's about

722
00:33:55,247 --> 00:33:58,247
Speaker 4: someone donating a large amount of money to a charity

723
00:33:58,527 --> 00:34:02,247
Speaker 4: for women. Let me unpack it for you and explain

724
00:34:02,527 --> 00:34:05,447
Speaker 4: why I'm so grumpy. Anna Kendrick has said that she

725
00:34:05,607 --> 00:34:09,127
Speaker 4: donated the fee she got from starring in and directed

726
00:34:09,887 --> 00:34:12,327
Speaker 4: the hit Netflix true crime film Woman of the Hour.

727
00:34:12,367 --> 00:34:14,287
Speaker 4: A lot of people are talking about that. It came

728
00:34:14,327 --> 00:34:17,127
Speaker 4: out recently. It's about a woman who appeared on a

729
00:34:17,207 --> 00:34:21,607
Speaker 4: nineteen seventies TV dating show and was matched with a

730
00:34:21,687 --> 00:34:25,247
Speaker 4: serial killer in the midst of his crimes. Here she is,

731
00:34:25,287 --> 00:34:28,567
Speaker 4: in her own words, telling an interviewer why she decided.

732
00:34:28,167 --> 00:34:28,567
Speaker 7: To do this.

733
00:34:29,047 --> 00:34:30,447
Speaker 6: And then I was just making the movie, making a movie,

734
00:34:30,487 --> 00:34:32,487
Speaker 6: and we just barely made the deadline to get into

735
00:34:32,527 --> 00:34:36,407
Speaker 6: TEFF and then it was like, oh, oh, there's like

736
00:34:36,927 --> 00:34:40,567
Speaker 6: money going to be exchanging hands, and yeah, Like I

737
00:34:41,087 --> 00:34:44,407
Speaker 6: sort of asked myself the question of like, do you

738
00:34:44,447 --> 00:34:45,287
Speaker 6: feel gross about this?

739
00:34:45,367 --> 00:34:48,167
Speaker 2: And I did, And so I'm not.

740
00:34:48,447 --> 00:34:49,967
Speaker 4: Making money off of the movie.

741
00:34:50,167 --> 00:34:52,687
Speaker 6: The money is going to or has gone to RAIN

742
00:34:52,927 --> 00:34:55,647
Speaker 6: and to the National Center for Victims of Violent Crime,

743
00:34:55,847 --> 00:34:58,647
Speaker 6: which was a charity that Matt Murphy recommended to me.

744
00:34:59,007 --> 00:35:01,887
Speaker 4: So RAIN is a huge charity in the US that

745
00:35:02,087 --> 00:35:06,567
Speaker 4: supports victims of domestic violence and sexual abuse. And look,

746
00:35:06,807 --> 00:35:10,167
Speaker 4: why am I angry about it rich Hollywood celebrity donating

747
00:35:10,247 --> 00:35:12,767
Speaker 4: money to charity. This is the reason. And now, of

748
00:35:12,807 --> 00:35:14,807
Speaker 4: course it's not about the charity and the donation, because

749
00:35:14,847 --> 00:35:16,727
Speaker 4: the charities have said how grateful they are. Of course

750
00:35:16,767 --> 00:35:20,287
Speaker 4: they are. Netflix has made a huge amount of money

751
00:35:20,487 --> 00:35:23,407
Speaker 4: from this. They paid eleven million dollars for the rights

752
00:35:23,447 --> 00:35:25,807
Speaker 4: to make it and a Kendrick not to start in it,

753
00:35:25,927 --> 00:35:29,167
Speaker 4: but she also directed it. It was watched twenty three

754
00:35:29,247 --> 00:35:31,527
Speaker 4: million times in the two weeks after its release, so

755
00:35:31,607 --> 00:35:35,327
Speaker 4: it's clearly a big, big success for the platform. But

756
00:35:35,487 --> 00:35:37,647
Speaker 4: what worries me about this is that it is an

757
00:35:37,647 --> 00:35:40,327
Speaker 4: example of something that I've come to think of as

758
00:35:40,367 --> 00:35:44,767
Speaker 4: the Blake Lively effect, which is, if you remember, recently,

759
00:35:45,087 --> 00:35:47,447
Speaker 4: Blake Lively made a movie called It Ends with Us

760
00:35:47,607 --> 00:35:51,567
Speaker 4: where she got criticized hugely for centering herself in the

761
00:35:51,607 --> 00:35:54,287
Speaker 4: publicity and the marketing of the film, even though she

762
00:35:54,487 --> 00:35:56,967
Speaker 4: was the literal star of it, and she got attacked

763
00:35:57,007 --> 00:35:59,447
Speaker 4: for wearing clothes on the red carpet that were too

764
00:35:59,567 --> 00:36:03,767
Speaker 4: nice and apparently distracted from the experience of domestic violence victims,

765
00:36:04,887 --> 00:36:08,527
Speaker 4: and that really impacted on how the movie was received

766
00:36:08,687 --> 00:36:13,527
Speaker 4: and Blake Clively's reputation, and so clearly, fearing those same attacks,

767
00:36:13,527 --> 00:36:17,287
Speaker 4: Anna Kendrick decided to preempt a Pylon. I'm not saying

768
00:36:17,327 --> 00:36:20,047
Speaker 4: she didn't also have these good intentions, and who might

769
00:36:20,247 --> 00:36:23,527
Speaker 4: doubt them, But my question is, are the actors who

770
00:36:23,567 --> 00:36:26,487
Speaker 4: play men who abuse and murder women donating their salaries?

771
00:36:26,687 --> 00:36:28,967
Speaker 4: Or is it just the women? Is it just the

772
00:36:29,047 --> 00:36:31,727
Speaker 4: women who play their victims, because the last time I

773
00:36:31,887 --> 00:36:36,447
Speaker 4: checked actors like zac Efron and David Tennant in Rivals

774
00:36:36,567 --> 00:36:40,127
Speaker 4: and Channing Tatum, who was in Blink twice recently, all

775
00:36:40,567 --> 00:36:44,927
Speaker 4: of whom are great actors, but have played men who've

776
00:36:45,327 --> 00:36:49,287
Speaker 4: murdered and raped women. Did they donate their pay? And

777
00:36:49,447 --> 00:36:51,607
Speaker 4: is this now the expectation of every woman who tells

778
00:36:51,647 --> 00:36:54,647
Speaker 4: a story, either in film or in TV shows or

779
00:36:54,727 --> 00:36:57,687
Speaker 4: in even books that depicts the abuse of women, Because

780
00:36:57,727 --> 00:37:00,247
Speaker 4: to me, this does not seem like progress. Jesse, tell

781
00:37:00,287 --> 00:37:00,887
Speaker 4: me why I'm wrong.

782
00:37:01,367 --> 00:37:04,127
Speaker 2: Your instinct was my initial instinct, and now I've changed

783
00:37:04,127 --> 00:37:07,087
Speaker 2: my mind. Not tell you I Justin Baldoni, who did

784
00:37:07,207 --> 00:37:11,127
Speaker 2: it ends with us. He coins a production company, Wayfair Studios.

785
00:37:11,207 --> 00:37:13,047
Speaker 2: He was the director, and he was the director and

786
00:37:13,167 --> 00:37:17,447
Speaker 2: he played, yeah course, alongside Blake Lively. I reckon that

787
00:37:17,527 --> 00:37:20,767
Speaker 2: what Anna Kendrick is doing is actually the Justin Baldoni effect,

788
00:37:20,927 --> 00:37:23,047
Speaker 2: not the Blake Lively effect. And I say that because

789
00:37:23,127 --> 00:37:27,367
Speaker 2: he partnered with the No More Foundation to provide resources

790
00:37:27,407 --> 00:37:28,927
Speaker 2: and information related to the abuse.

791
00:37:28,967 --> 00:37:32,287
Speaker 4: To picked it only afterwards, only after people came for Blake.

792
00:37:32,567 --> 00:37:35,047
Speaker 2: I thought that, but then I checked, and it's even

793
00:37:35,087 --> 00:37:37,527
Speaker 2: in the credits. They from the beginning, and he actually

794
00:37:37,607 --> 00:37:40,407
Speaker 2: had partnered with them and worked with them prior. So

795
00:37:40,607 --> 00:37:43,687
Speaker 2: he is very much a purpose based every project that

796
00:37:43,807 --> 00:37:46,567
Speaker 2: he does, he is very much about how do I

797
00:37:46,647 --> 00:37:48,887
Speaker 2: make the world better. That's how he presents and part

798
00:37:48,927 --> 00:37:52,887
Speaker 2: of the ethos of his company. And so I think

799
00:37:53,127 --> 00:37:56,367
Speaker 2: in that way, there is this trend towards if you're

800
00:37:56,407 --> 00:37:59,447
Speaker 2: dealing with a really big issue like this, rather than

801
00:38:00,447 --> 00:38:02,767
Speaker 2: be seen to be profiting off at how can you

802
00:38:02,927 --> 00:38:06,167
Speaker 2: give back? And I think that Justin Baldoni, I agree

803
00:38:06,207 --> 00:38:06,407
Speaker 2: with you.

804
00:38:06,887 --> 00:38:09,967
Speaker 4: That infuriates me because do you know what's going to happen.

805
00:38:10,287 --> 00:38:12,727
Speaker 4: People won't make these movies anymore. They won't make these

806
00:38:12,767 --> 00:38:15,847
Speaker 4: TV shows, they won't tell these stories. Instead, they'll be

807
00:38:15,887 --> 00:38:18,167
Speaker 4: a movie where they can keep all the tens of mine.

808
00:38:18,447 --> 00:38:20,887
Speaker 2: But Anna Kendrick is worth an estimated and this is

809
00:38:20,927 --> 00:38:24,167
Speaker 2: always highly contested, an estimated twenty million dollars. So Anna

810
00:38:24,247 --> 00:38:27,087
Speaker 2: Kendrick does need the money, just like Justin Baldoni. And

811
00:38:27,247 --> 00:38:29,647
Speaker 2: you know what, he didn't donate his salary from.

812
00:38:29,767 --> 00:38:32,047
Speaker 4: But are we going to say that every celebrity who's

813
00:38:32,047 --> 00:38:34,327
Speaker 4: got more money than us doesn't need it? No, no, no,

814
00:38:34,527 --> 00:38:36,807
Speaker 4: But if that's and shouldn't be paid for their work, if.

815
00:38:36,767 --> 00:38:40,087
Speaker 2: That's Anna Kendrick's choice, that she looked at it and went,

816
00:38:40,127 --> 00:38:42,367
Speaker 2: I've actually got enough money. I'm doing this as a

817
00:38:42,487 --> 00:38:46,407
Speaker 2: passion project and I want to donate. I agree with

818
00:38:46,527 --> 00:38:49,527
Speaker 2: you that the expectation on women is a lot higher

819
00:38:49,647 --> 00:38:52,247
Speaker 2: and that we demand women show us their wounds. In

820
00:38:52,327 --> 00:38:54,647
Speaker 2: that Call her Daddy interview, I think in order to

821
00:38:54,847 --> 00:38:57,407
Speaker 2: justify why she would make this film, she had to

822
00:38:57,447 --> 00:39:00,327
Speaker 2: tell us about an abusive relationship. How long did that

823
00:39:00,487 --> 00:39:02,767
Speaker 2: abusive relationship that you endured last?

824
00:39:02,967 --> 00:39:07,087
Speaker 6: It didn't follow the traditional pattern, which is kind of

825
00:39:07,207 --> 00:39:10,847
Speaker 6: yet another reason why I was finding it really difficult

826
00:39:10,927 --> 00:39:14,327
Speaker 6: to identify it and name it as abusive, okay, because

827
00:39:14,327 --> 00:39:16,167
Speaker 6: I was like reading all the articles and going like,

828
00:39:16,407 --> 00:39:18,967
Speaker 6: this doesn't look like some of it looks like how

829
00:39:19,007 --> 00:39:22,407
Speaker 6: they're describing it, but not completely. So the relationship was

830
00:39:22,447 --> 00:39:26,127
Speaker 6: seven years. It was like an overnight switch.

831
00:39:26,087 --> 00:39:27,887
Speaker 2: And you know what, that could also be really helpful

832
00:39:27,887 --> 00:39:29,447
Speaker 2: to women. But we saw it this week too with

833
00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:32,327
Speaker 2: Jackie O. Jackie O has released her memoir, which we

834
00:39:32,527 --> 00:39:34,607
Speaker 2: talked about on the show, and there was a lot

835
00:39:34,607 --> 00:39:37,487
Speaker 2: of criticism. I saw it everywhere about how she was

836
00:39:37,647 --> 00:39:41,047
Speaker 2: profiting off like talking about her drug abut and she's

837
00:39:41,087 --> 00:39:42,647
Speaker 2: only telling us this so that she can make money

838
00:39:42,687 --> 00:39:44,607
Speaker 2: off it. And she's come out and said all proceeds

839
00:39:44,607 --> 00:39:45,567
Speaker 2: are now being donated.

840
00:39:45,687 --> 00:39:47,407
Speaker 4: It's her story in her life.

841
00:39:48,167 --> 00:39:48,927
Speaker 2: Holy what do you think?

842
00:39:49,007 --> 00:39:52,247
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's complicated because my instinct is me

843
00:39:52,407 --> 00:39:54,607
Speaker 1: is too, is that I do think that women like

844
00:39:54,847 --> 00:39:57,327
Speaker 1: I can't even think of how many TV shows I've seen,

845
00:39:57,367 --> 00:39:59,207
Speaker 1: the movies I've seen where a man is an abusive

846
00:39:59,287 --> 00:40:00,727
Speaker 1: killer and nobody it's a whole show.

847
00:40:01,087 --> 00:40:03,647
Speaker 2: The director, it's the directed element. It was the fact

848
00:40:03,687 --> 00:40:05,167
Speaker 2: that she directed it. It's not the character.

849
00:40:05,247 --> 00:40:08,167
Speaker 1: No, no, I get all that, but I also kind

850
00:40:08,207 --> 00:40:10,407
Speaker 1: of wonder if that is the case. I also kind

851
00:40:10,447 --> 00:40:12,367
Speaker 1: of wonder if she was the star of this. But

852
00:40:12,527 --> 00:40:14,807
Speaker 1: there are some nuances that are worth mentioning because this

853
00:40:15,007 --> 00:40:17,207
Speaker 1: isn't actually a movie about domestic violence. This is a

854
00:40:17,247 --> 00:40:19,727
Speaker 1: straight up serial killer movie, right. It's not about an

855
00:40:19,727 --> 00:40:22,487
Speaker 1: abusive relationship. The woman involved in it in real life

856
00:40:22,527 --> 00:40:24,127
Speaker 1: she never went on a date with this guy. In

857
00:40:24,207 --> 00:40:26,407
Speaker 1: the movie, she does go on one date with this guy,

858
00:40:26,687 --> 00:40:28,807
Speaker 1: but that's not actually what it's about. This is much

859
00:40:28,887 --> 00:40:33,127
Speaker 1: more squarely in the very classic serial killer genre of

860
00:40:33,287 --> 00:40:33,687
Speaker 1: a movie.

861
00:40:33,887 --> 00:40:34,007
Speaker 4: Right.

862
00:40:34,567 --> 00:40:36,767
Speaker 1: The thing about that, the positive thing about that, you

863
00:40:36,847 --> 00:40:40,247
Speaker 1: could argue, is that maybe we finally learn a lesson

864
00:40:40,287 --> 00:40:42,687
Speaker 1: about the fact that we have been watching culture that

865
00:40:42,807 --> 00:40:46,087
Speaker 1: hangs off dead women and murdered women and women you know,

866
00:40:46,207 --> 00:40:48,167
Speaker 1: who are raped and abused and have to start with

867
00:40:48,247 --> 00:40:50,527
Speaker 1: a body. We all know those tropes, right, We've been

868
00:40:50,607 --> 00:40:54,887
Speaker 1: watching unthinkingly and handing over our money to the storytellers

869
00:40:54,927 --> 00:40:57,007
Speaker 1: of those things for a very long time, and finally

870
00:40:57,087 --> 00:40:59,087
Speaker 1: we're kind of going hold on, isn't it a bit

871
00:40:59,167 --> 00:41:02,727
Speaker 1: weird that we're all so happy to just consume this

872
00:41:02,927 --> 00:41:06,127
Speaker 1: kind of content unquestionably, and often the serial killers end

873
00:41:06,207 --> 00:41:08,247
Speaker 1: up almost being pin ups. If you think about Jamie

874
00:41:08,287 --> 00:41:10,727
Speaker 1: Dornan in The Fall, or like our obsession with a

875
00:41:10,847 --> 00:41:14,167
Speaker 1: character like Hannibal Lecter or whatever, that we erase the victim,

876
00:41:14,687 --> 00:41:17,727
Speaker 1: and now culturally we are focused on the victims, and

877
00:41:17,767 --> 00:41:19,767
Speaker 1: I think that's a good thing. I think the thing

878
00:41:19,887 --> 00:41:23,007
Speaker 1: that's a bit depressing about this is if it is

879
00:41:23,087 --> 00:41:26,247
Speaker 1: a defensive crouch, which it may well be, like as in,

880
00:41:26,367 --> 00:41:29,127
Speaker 1: if the people who made this movie, including Anna Kendrick,

881
00:41:29,567 --> 00:41:31,367
Speaker 1: saw what happened to It Ends with Us, which went

882
00:41:31,407 --> 00:41:32,807
Speaker 1: on to be a massive smash by the way, and

883
00:41:32,887 --> 00:41:35,407
Speaker 1: make everybody involved a lot of money and presumably also

884
00:41:35,487 --> 00:41:37,367
Speaker 1: the charities involved a lot of money. So that's a

885
00:41:37,407 --> 00:41:39,967
Speaker 1: good thing. But if they watched what happened to Blake

886
00:41:40,007 --> 00:41:42,887
Speaker 1: Lively and Anna Kendrick was like, I do not want

887
00:41:42,927 --> 00:41:44,687
Speaker 1: that to happen to me. I do also do not

888
00:41:44,807 --> 00:41:48,527
Speaker 1: want that to overshadow this entire campaign and me talking

889
00:41:48,567 --> 00:41:50,967
Speaker 1: about this movie that I really believe in and so

890
00:41:51,127 --> 00:41:54,567
Speaker 1: we're going to do this. That's a bit sad because

891
00:41:54,607 --> 00:41:57,047
Speaker 1: we can all feel so helpless about violence against women.

892
00:41:57,127 --> 00:42:00,167
Speaker 1: So in another way, is the ultimate outcome a positive

893
00:42:00,207 --> 00:42:02,007
Speaker 1: one for the wrong reasons almost you know.

894
00:42:02,247 --> 00:42:04,287
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I feel that way about it too,

895
00:42:04,687 --> 00:42:07,647
Speaker 4: But it's more that this will now be the expectation,

896
00:42:07,767 --> 00:42:09,807
Speaker 4: but only for the women before we go.

897
00:42:10,127 --> 00:42:12,327
Speaker 2: I came across this story on the BBC over the

898
00:42:12,367 --> 00:42:16,407
Speaker 2: weekend about how weird it is that Australians don't wear shoes.

899
00:42:16,767 --> 00:42:19,767
Speaker 2: It's been called one of the weirdest, perplexing, odd and

900
00:42:20,047 --> 00:42:22,287
Speaker 2: unexplainable Australian cultural habits.

901
00:42:22,847 --> 00:42:25,367
Speaker 1: But this, what do you mean, like where it's an

902
00:42:25,567 --> 00:42:28,407
Speaker 1: entirely true. This is one of the things that absolutely

903
00:42:28,487 --> 00:42:30,727
Speaker 1: boggled my mind when I first came to Australia, and

904
00:42:30,727 --> 00:42:33,807
Speaker 1: I've actually got an American friend who moved home because

905
00:42:33,847 --> 00:42:36,727
Speaker 1: of all the barefootness. Is like, shall I face Trump's America?

906
00:42:36,847 --> 00:42:38,927
Speaker 1: Or am I dealing with bare toes in the supermarket queue?

907
00:42:38,967 --> 00:42:39,967
Speaker 1: I think I'm going back to Trumps.

908
00:42:40,167 --> 00:42:42,727
Speaker 2: See, apparently it can be explained right because in the

909
00:42:42,767 --> 00:42:46,567
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties, Australia was marketed to migrants as somewhere

910
00:42:46,607 --> 00:42:48,687
Speaker 2: you could take your shoes off because it was warm

911
00:42:49,287 --> 00:42:51,887
Speaker 2: and the lifestyle was laid back. It was everyone's just

912
00:42:51,927 --> 00:42:55,167
Speaker 2: walking around badfoot. But for a lot of overseas visitors,

913
00:42:55,247 --> 00:42:57,567
Speaker 2: this is what it said. It's this odd thing that

914
00:42:57,607 --> 00:43:00,127
Speaker 2: they've noticed and they really really don't like it.

915
00:43:00,287 --> 00:43:02,367
Speaker 4: What don't they like about it because it's smelly?

916
00:43:02,647 --> 00:43:04,847
Speaker 2: No, no, no, they just think have some decorrent.

917
00:43:04,927 --> 00:43:06,687
Speaker 4: Well they're clearly not on wiki feed no.

918
00:43:07,007 --> 00:43:08,727
Speaker 2: Exactly, but like last night, Oh.

919
00:43:08,687 --> 00:43:13,127
Speaker 1: My god, Paradise for Food. In fact, Tourre's Australia is

920
00:43:13,167 --> 00:43:15,167
Speaker 1: missing a trick. This is how we should be marketing

921
00:43:15,327 --> 00:43:18,327
Speaker 1: Australian feet, the most beautiful feet in the world, and

922
00:43:18,407 --> 00:43:19,367
Speaker 1: you can see them everywhere.

923
00:43:19,407 --> 00:43:21,687
Speaker 4: Maybe I could be the foot of Australian.

924
00:43:21,207 --> 00:43:24,247
Speaker 2: Tours because everyone knows it's actually very good for your feet. Holleen, Well,

925
00:43:24,327 --> 00:43:24,927
Speaker 2: here's the thing that.

926
00:43:25,047 --> 00:43:26,887
Speaker 1: Is So when I was young and I came to

927
00:43:26,967 --> 00:43:29,007
Speaker 1: Australia and I noticed this, I used to love it.

928
00:43:29,487 --> 00:43:31,727
Speaker 1: I remember going on holiday from work in my first

929
00:43:31,847 --> 00:43:33,687
Speaker 1: job in Australia and being like, I'm not going to

930
00:43:33,767 --> 00:43:35,407
Speaker 1: wear shoes for two weeks, Like that's the mark of

931
00:43:35,447 --> 00:43:36,927
Speaker 1: a holiday, you know what I mean. I'm just going

932
00:43:37,007 --> 00:43:39,327
Speaker 1: to walk around Barron Bay or wherever I was, like

933
00:43:39,447 --> 00:43:41,647
Speaker 1: some backpackery town with no shoes on and I'm going

934
00:43:41,727 --> 00:43:44,167
Speaker 1: to feel so free and now I'm old. I look

935
00:43:44,207 --> 00:43:46,727
Speaker 1: at people and I'm like, put some shoes on. I'm like,

936
00:43:47,167 --> 00:43:48,167
Speaker 1: no shoes, no shoes.

937
00:43:48,607 --> 00:43:48,887
Speaker 4: I was.

938
00:43:49,127 --> 00:43:52,127
Speaker 2: I had to do some shopping, like supermarket shopping yesterday,

939
00:43:52,127 --> 00:43:53,927
Speaker 2: and Luke came and met me and he had no

940
00:43:54,007 --> 00:43:56,167
Speaker 2: shoes on, and I went. The journey of my life

941
00:43:56,287 --> 00:43:58,367
Speaker 2: is discovering where the line is. Because I found myself

942
00:43:58,367 --> 00:43:59,847
Speaker 2: in a westfield with no shoes on, and I've gone

943
00:43:59,847 --> 00:44:00,527
Speaker 2: across the line.

944
00:44:00,847 --> 00:44:02,847
Speaker 4: How did you get into a west fo So I

945
00:44:02,927 --> 00:44:03,527
Speaker 4: kind of needed to.

946
00:44:03,647 --> 00:44:05,527
Speaker 2: Just go in and like duck in and get something.

947
00:44:05,567 --> 00:44:07,127
Speaker 2: And maybe I was on my way home from the beach.

948
00:44:07,127 --> 00:44:09,167
Speaker 2: Because the rule is within two caves of a beach,

949
00:44:09,287 --> 00:44:11,887
Speaker 2: no shoes within two k's of my house. I feel like,

950
00:44:12,007 --> 00:44:14,927
Speaker 2: no shoes within five within two k's.

951
00:44:14,727 --> 00:44:16,407
Speaker 1: Of your house. Like if I would you walk to

952
00:44:16,447 --> 00:44:19,487
Speaker 1: the corner shop with no shoes on? Yes? Really on

953
00:44:19,607 --> 00:44:20,847
Speaker 1: a pavement in the city.

954
00:44:21,447 --> 00:44:24,247
Speaker 4: But firstly, what are you stepping on? Second? Have you

955
00:44:24,327 --> 00:44:26,647
Speaker 4: seen what people do on the footpath? Have you seen

956
00:44:26,727 --> 00:44:30,367
Speaker 4: that it's a suburban Have you not seen people hoyke

957
00:44:30,447 --> 00:44:31,607
Speaker 4: one onto the footpath?

958
00:44:31,687 --> 00:44:31,807
Speaker 5: Oh?

959
00:44:31,927 --> 00:44:33,607
Speaker 2: You know what it'd be good for the immune system.

960
00:44:34,047 --> 00:44:36,007
Speaker 2: It's good for the foot. It's good for the foot

961
00:44:36,047 --> 00:44:37,687
Speaker 2: because we shouldn't be in shoes all the time.

962
00:44:37,807 --> 00:44:40,007
Speaker 4: Do you know what my kids freak out if I'm

963
00:44:40,047 --> 00:44:41,207
Speaker 4: wearing shoes in my house.

964
00:44:41,687 --> 00:44:42,807
Speaker 1: That freaks out in the house.

965
00:44:43,047 --> 00:44:45,887
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, See, it's funny always looking at where the

966
00:44:45,967 --> 00:44:47,647
Speaker 4: line is. So every night I take the dogs out

967
00:44:47,687 --> 00:44:49,487
Speaker 4: for a walk just to go to the toilet, I

968
00:44:49,607 --> 00:44:52,647
Speaker 4: just take them across the road. And I don't like

969
00:44:52,847 --> 00:44:56,087
Speaker 4: not wearing shoes because then those same feet get into

970
00:44:56,127 --> 00:44:56,447
Speaker 4: my bed.

971
00:44:57,367 --> 00:44:59,047
Speaker 2: But yeah, you got to watch them.

972
00:44:59,767 --> 00:45:02,127
Speaker 1: Do you know who's wearing shoes? People who live in

973
00:45:02,167 --> 00:45:05,727
Speaker 1: the country, snakes. You would not see anyone walking around

974
00:45:05,767 --> 00:45:08,167
Speaker 1: a proper country as town with no shoes. Thanks.

975
00:45:08,287 --> 00:45:10,687
Speaker 4: You also get very rough skin on your feet if

976
00:45:10,767 --> 00:45:12,647
Speaker 4: you wear bare feet, so then you have to add

977
00:45:12,647 --> 00:45:14,727
Speaker 4: an extra step to your everything, Sharon a Sunday night,

978
00:45:14,847 --> 00:45:16,767
Speaker 4: which is exfoliating your feet.

979
00:45:16,567 --> 00:45:18,567
Speaker 1: With one of those foot files Thomas Stones.

980
00:45:19,247 --> 00:45:21,527
Speaker 2: We ask people in the Mummere office if they're guilty

981
00:45:21,807 --> 00:45:23,567
Speaker 2: of not wearing shoes, and here's what they told us.

982
00:45:24,527 --> 00:45:25,647
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm guilty.

983
00:45:25,727 --> 00:45:27,687
Speaker 7: I'm very much known for being barefoot in the supermarket

984
00:45:27,687 --> 00:45:29,207
Speaker 7: all the time because I never have enough time to

985
00:45:29,207 --> 00:45:30,887
Speaker 7: pop up for a shop, so I never put shoes on.

986
00:45:31,007 --> 00:45:32,447
Speaker 4: There's a time and a place, for sure.

987
00:45:32,527 --> 00:45:35,807
Speaker 7: I wouldn't go barefoot in the office, but I'm a

988
00:45:35,967 --> 00:45:38,367
Speaker 7: fan of getting my dogs out, which basically means I

989
00:45:38,527 --> 00:45:41,207
Speaker 7: love wearing sandals or thongs everywhere.

990
00:45:41,367 --> 00:45:43,807
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, absolutely not. I have a bit of tact,

991
00:45:43,927 --> 00:45:46,487
Speaker 2: thank you. It depends on where, Like, if it's a

992
00:45:46,567 --> 00:45:50,207
Speaker 2: beach town, then yes. If you're more than three hundred

993
00:45:50,647 --> 00:45:52,007
Speaker 2: away from a beach, no.

994
00:45:52,527 --> 00:45:57,047
Speaker 1: No, that's absolutely vile, absolutely fucking not. People deserve jail

995
00:45:57,127 --> 00:45:59,447
Speaker 1: time who do that in public. It's a visual assault

996
00:45:59,487 --> 00:45:59,967
Speaker 1: on my eyes.

997
00:46:00,247 --> 00:46:03,007
Speaker 7: Listen, I'm a bit of a shoe person, so the

998
00:46:03,127 --> 00:46:06,087
Speaker 7: barefoot thing worries me. It's less about what other people

999
00:46:06,207 --> 00:46:09,567
Speaker 7: think and more about me tripping, hurting my toe or

1000
00:46:09,887 --> 00:46:11,287
Speaker 7: falling over and embarrassing myself.

1001
00:46:12,167 --> 00:46:14,207
Speaker 4: One thing you made noticed if you follow us in

1002
00:46:14,367 --> 00:46:16,447
Speaker 4: your pod feed, I don't know what you call it anymore.

1003
00:46:16,447 --> 00:46:18,287
Speaker 4: It used to be called subscribing to a podcast. Now

1004
00:46:18,327 --> 00:46:21,807
Speaker 4: it's called following a podcast. Anyway, we have been dropping

1005
00:46:21,847 --> 00:46:23,607
Speaker 4: some little treats, and we're going to continue to drop

1006
00:46:23,687 --> 00:46:26,967
Speaker 4: some extra little treats, particularly on the weekend, just other

1007
00:46:27,047 --> 00:46:29,727
Speaker 4: little shows that Jesse, Holly or I might have made,

1008
00:46:30,047 --> 00:46:32,567
Speaker 4: or things that we think you might be interested in

1009
00:46:32,687 --> 00:46:33,087
Speaker 4: listening to.

1010
00:46:33,607 --> 00:46:35,967
Speaker 2: But if you're worried that you can't find your Friday episode,

1011
00:46:36,087 --> 00:46:37,687
Speaker 2: scroll back. Promise you it's there.

1012
00:46:37,847 --> 00:46:41,647
Speaker 1: It's there. That's everything from us today out louders as ever,

1013
00:46:41,927 --> 00:46:43,607
Speaker 1: huge thank you to all of you for being with

1014
00:46:43,727 --> 00:46:45,927
Speaker 1: the three of us on this Monday. As I say,

1015
00:46:46,007 --> 00:46:48,247
Speaker 1: we will be here all week with your American US

1016
00:46:48,327 --> 00:46:50,887
Speaker 1: gossip and otherwise and we couldn't do it without you.

1017
00:46:50,967 --> 00:46:54,327
Speaker 1: We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye. Shout

1018
00:46:54,367 --> 00:46:57,207
Speaker 1: out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you love

1019
00:46:57,327 --> 00:46:59,967
Speaker 1: the show and you want to support us, subscribing to

1020
00:47:00,047 --> 00:47:02,247
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

1021
00:47:02,527 --> 00:47:04,367
Speaker 1: There's a link in the episode description.