WEBVTT - Liane Moriarty Has A Big Question For You 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:14.927 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges the 0:00:14.927 --> 0:00:17.727 traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is 0:00:17.727 --> 0:00:18.367 recorded on. 0:00:21.007 --> 0:00:21.647 TikTok. 0:00:22.927 --> 0:00:26.567 Not the dancing kind, the old fashioned sort click clicking 0:00:26.607 --> 0:00:29.927 away in the back of your mind, counting up and 0:00:30.007 --> 0:00:34.407 counting down up to that age you always said, I'll 0:00:34.407 --> 0:00:38.567 do that by then, and down to the inevitable finality 0:00:38.687 --> 0:00:43.007 of which we do not speak. By mid you've worked 0:00:43.047 --> 0:00:46.327 out that time is actually the only currency that counts, 0:00:46.647 --> 0:00:51.487 and you've got holds in your pockets. TikTok. Not the 0:00:51.567 --> 0:00:55.047 kind your almost adult kid lives inside, but the kind 0:00:55.087 --> 0:00:58.367 that was so painfully slow when you were young, tick 0:00:59.007 --> 0:01:03.927 talk when will I ever be old enough to? And 0:01:04.007 --> 0:01:07.287 the kind that now flies by at warp speed. TikTok. 0:01:07.367 --> 0:01:10.727 TikTok terms almost finished doing for Easter? May haven't you 0:01:10.767 --> 0:01:14.007 grown another fucking birthday? Cake? Winters so long this year? 0:01:14.167 --> 0:01:16.247 I don't celebrate the cup. We have to catch up 0:01:16.247 --> 0:01:20.567 before Christmas, wishing time away and then trying to hold 0:01:20.607 --> 0:01:25.247 onto It is the story, it seems, of a life. 0:01:25.287 --> 0:01:28.447 Act one that was a thing, the setup, the backstory, 0:01:28.527 --> 0:01:32.167 the foundation. Act two finds us here in the thick 0:01:32.207 --> 0:01:35.247 of the action, wondering if there's some hidden message to 0:01:35.327 --> 0:01:41.367 the unfolding chaos. Act three, if we're lucky, a satisfying conclusion, 0:01:41.767 --> 0:01:47.087 an investment paid off, a big reveal. Perhaps, of course, 0:01:47.167 --> 0:01:50.567 not every life gets divided so neatly, and the perfect 0:01:50.607 --> 0:01:54.607 finale is almost certainly a dream. So what we're doing 0:01:54.647 --> 0:01:59.207 with it now feels urgent, important, but brings its own pressures. 0:02:00.167 --> 0:02:03.007 Can we really live in the truth of time being finite? 0:02:03.167 --> 0:02:06.407 As if each day was your last? Rushing between loved 0:02:06.407 --> 0:02:09.927 ones telling them they matter, hoovering experience to tick off 0:02:09.927 --> 0:02:14.007 a list, savoring each sunrise, never going to bed angry? 0:02:15.887 --> 0:02:18.487 Do we really get here and need to despair about 0:02:18.487 --> 0:02:22.007 how much of it we spent on emails or folding laundry, 0:02:22.247 --> 0:02:28.887 wiping bottoms, waiting for the pasta water swiping Instagram TikTok, No, 0:02:29.287 --> 0:02:32.487 not that one, the one that's rushing past like Keanu 0:02:32.527 --> 0:02:35.487 and Sandra's bus can't slow down. You've got to keep up. 0:02:35.927 --> 0:02:38.847 Four thousand weeks, ten thousand hours, break it down, make 0:02:38.887 --> 0:02:42.287 it count, don't waste a second. So what is the 0:02:42.287 --> 0:02:44.767 best way, though, to spend the time you believed was 0:02:44.807 --> 0:02:48.847 infinite before life slowly unveiled the obvious? Is it a 0:02:48.887 --> 0:02:51.767 waste if you're not on a yacht, summering in Europe, 0:02:51.807 --> 0:02:54.767 grinding to makee bank? Is it a waste if you're 0:02:54.767 --> 0:02:57.527 not training for a try making your own cheese, growing 0:02:57.527 --> 0:03:01.287 your network, widening your funnel. Is it a waste to 0:03:01.327 --> 0:03:03.047 spend some of it just lying in bed with a 0:03:03.127 --> 0:03:05.927 kid a little too long, remembering that farts are funny? 0:03:06.527 --> 0:03:10.247 Or under a tree with a skyithing friendiding from today's 0:03:10.247 --> 0:03:13.567 to dos, or under a doner with someone you like 0:03:14.207 --> 0:03:17.927 later for work with every kiss. Is it a waste 0:03:18.367 --> 0:03:21.007 to spend some slow minutes making a meal only you 0:03:21.047 --> 0:03:24.007 will eat, Or talking to someone you don't really know 0:03:24.087 --> 0:03:25.967 in a line at a place you didn't choose to be, 0:03:26.767 --> 0:03:29.727 or reading that book, or binging that show, or laughing 0:03:29.727 --> 0:03:31.727 at how smart the Internet can be when it's not 0:03:31.727 --> 0:03:35.887 trying to destroy us. TikTok, not the one that says 0:03:35.927 --> 0:03:39.127 you're not brat, but the one that whispers how many 0:03:39.167 --> 0:03:44.927 more summers while you try not to hear? Hi, I'm 0:03:45.007 --> 0:03:49.887 Holly Wainwright, and I am mid midlife, mid family, mid 0:03:49.967 --> 0:03:53.287 panic some days, and welcome to mid our show for 0:03:53.407 --> 0:03:57.287 gen X women who are anything but today, I'm talking 0:03:57.287 --> 0:04:00.927 to Leanne Moriarty. You might have heard. She writes books, 0:04:01.567 --> 0:04:06.047 not just books, but enormous books, books that sell millions, 0:04:06.207 --> 0:04:09.807 that speak to millions, that get made into culture defining 0:04:09.847 --> 0:04:14.647 TV shows that tell stories about ordinary people, ordinary Australian 0:04:14.687 --> 0:04:17.407 women actually, that then travel around the world and make 0:04:17.687 --> 0:04:21.127 entire other continents of women go oh yeah, me too. 0:04:21.967 --> 0:04:25.647 Leanne would hate this intro already. She hates bluster and 0:04:25.687 --> 0:04:29.727 fuss and overstatement. She hates big noting and pretension. She 0:04:29.927 --> 0:04:33.367 likes telling stories and writing books, and she's endlessly curious 0:04:33.407 --> 0:04:36.127 about people, which is what makes her great at those 0:04:36.167 --> 0:04:42.127 first two things. We're talking about time today because Leanne's 0:04:42.127 --> 0:04:46.007 new book Here One Moment, is in large part about mortality. 0:04:46.487 --> 0:04:48.127 I'm going to tell you more about that as we 0:04:48.167 --> 0:04:50.847 go along, because the premise is so clever, so great 0:04:50.887 --> 0:04:54.727 and so relevant. But in our conversation, Leanne talks about 0:04:54.727 --> 0:04:58.207 how some ordinary but extraordinary events in her own life, 0:04:58.807 --> 0:05:01.807 like losing her father both she and her sister being 0:05:01.807 --> 0:05:05.967 diagnosed with breast cancer, inspired this brilliant new novel's theme, 0:05:06.527 --> 0:05:09.367 what to do with the time You've got left? And 0:05:09.367 --> 0:05:12.767 what would happen if you knew exactly how much that was. 0:05:14.327 --> 0:05:19.527 Welcome to mid Leanne Moriarty Leanne. This is a podcast 0:05:19.687 --> 0:05:23.807 for women in their second acts, we often say mid women, 0:05:23.927 --> 0:05:28.047 gen X women. And listening to your interviews and reading 0:05:28.047 --> 0:05:31.247 your stories, I wondered if writing and Family is your 0:05:31.287 --> 0:05:34.087 second act. If your first act was your career in advertising, 0:05:34.127 --> 0:05:36.487 you had your own business, and then there's a point 0:05:36.527 --> 0:05:40.367 at which you decided to lean in to writing fiction, 0:05:41.327 --> 0:05:42.847 do you consider it your second act. 0:05:43.767 --> 0:05:46.607 I could consider it my second act if you want 0:05:46.607 --> 0:05:46.847 me to. 0:05:47.127 --> 0:05:48.527 You don't have to know. 0:05:48.967 --> 0:05:51.647 I'm trying to think. It's funny because when I first 0:05:51.727 --> 0:05:56.207 started writing, I was in my early thirties, so it 0:05:56.247 --> 0:05:59.007 was twenty years ago now since my first book came out, 0:05:59.407 --> 0:06:01.527 and I remember there seemed to be a lot of 0:06:01.607 --> 0:06:04.287 talk as if I was really old to be writing 0:06:04.327 --> 0:06:06.567 my first book. But now I think I wasn't old. 0:06:06.807 --> 0:06:09.527 You talking about I've seen you say that that you 0:06:09.687 --> 0:06:10.847 thought that you were old too. 0:06:10.927 --> 0:06:13.207 Yes, yeah, that was my feeling. I agree. Look at 0:06:13.247 --> 0:06:16.967 me as a middle aged person now I'm finally writing 0:06:16.967 --> 0:06:19.687 my book. But now I laugh sort of fondly at 0:06:19.687 --> 0:06:22.127 myself when you're talking. 0:06:21.767 --> 0:06:24.287 About maybe it's partly because I mean I work with 0:06:24.407 --> 0:06:26.927 a lot of young women, and they often feel like 0:06:26.967 --> 0:06:29.247 there's some sort of finish line at thirty and then 0:06:29.247 --> 0:06:31.847 a finish line at forty. Yes, that you have to 0:06:31.887 --> 0:06:35.327 have done X, y Z, so they'll be like, gosh beyond. 0:06:35.407 --> 0:06:39.567 Mariotty was over thirty when she published her book. Yeah, 0:06:39.607 --> 0:06:43.287 when really that's very young. But was there a moment 0:06:43.447 --> 0:06:48.407 from your advertising career where you were like, I definitely 0:06:48.447 --> 0:06:50.767 want to change what's next in my life? 0:06:50.847 --> 0:06:54.807 Well, it happened because my sister had her book published, 0:06:54.847 --> 0:06:58.647 so I was definitely in the corporate world. And I 0:06:58.687 --> 0:07:01.607 can still see my office. I can even see what 0:07:01.647 --> 0:07:05.327 I was wearing with the shoulder pads. And I got 0:07:05.327 --> 0:07:08.007 that phone call from her saying that her first book 0:07:08.367 --> 0:07:12.247 had been septem for publication, and I was thrilled for 0:07:12.327 --> 0:07:15.327 her because I love her dearly, but I was also 0:07:16.087 --> 0:07:19.927 filled with a kind of rage that she'd finally achieved 0:07:21.047 --> 0:07:25.127 our childhood dream and I hadn't even given it a shot. 0:07:25.327 --> 0:07:29.007 So it wasn't so much Okay, now here's my second act. 0:07:29.047 --> 0:07:33.207 It was, well, I should at least try this, and 0:07:33.287 --> 0:07:35.527 I kept working. Yes, that probably that's why I don't 0:07:35.567 --> 0:07:37.447 think of it as a second act because the acts 0:07:37.567 --> 0:07:42.527 all merged together because I was a freelance copywriter for 0:07:42.607 --> 0:07:45.447 a long time before I finally let clients go. The 0:07:45.527 --> 0:07:49.047 more successful I got, well, I let the horrible ones 0:07:49.087 --> 0:07:52.607 go first, so I do want to enjoy exactly. And 0:07:52.607 --> 0:07:55.487 then right towards the end, I still kept this lovely 0:07:55.847 --> 0:08:00.607 lady who did kitchen bench tops, and finally I said 0:08:00.607 --> 0:08:02.967 to her, I, really, I don't do this anymore. I 0:08:03.007 --> 0:08:06.447 just kept kept writing them for her. Yeah. So, yeah, well, 0:08:06.647 --> 0:08:08.167 all the acts merged together. 0:08:08.847 --> 0:08:12.407 I've obviously read about you and your two sisters who 0:08:12.407 --> 0:08:15.487 are also writers. Yes, writing when you were little stories 0:08:15.487 --> 0:08:18.287 for your father who would pay you a little advance 0:08:19.607 --> 0:08:20.487 contract mission. 0:08:21.247 --> 0:08:21.447 Yeah. 0:08:21.967 --> 0:08:25.767 So a lot of us might have passions in youth 0:08:25.807 --> 0:08:28.327 that we lose touch with, Yes, and sometimes that can 0:08:28.367 --> 0:08:29.927 make you feel quite far from yourself. 0:08:30.527 --> 0:08:33.607 Yes, that's right, But I didn't realize that. I wasn't 0:08:33.607 --> 0:08:38.047 thinking to myself, I'm unhappy. I wish I was writing 0:08:38.087 --> 0:08:41.007 my novel. I was pretty pleased with myself with that 0:08:41.367 --> 0:08:45.767 with the shoulder pads, and I quite liked management because 0:08:45.807 --> 0:08:48.367 I'm the eldest sister, so I think I'm quite good 0:08:48.367 --> 0:08:52.807 at delegating. I have no trouble with that. But when 0:08:52.807 --> 0:08:55.447 I was writing that first year, when I was writing 0:08:55.527 --> 0:08:59.447 Three Wishes, I was amazed at the feeling of relief 0:08:59.767 --> 0:09:02.887 that I felt, and that I continue to feel now. 0:09:02.967 --> 0:09:05.327 When I stopped writing for a while and then I 0:09:05.367 --> 0:09:08.127 get back into it, I think, oh, that's right. It's 0:09:08.167 --> 0:09:11.887 something that I need that I didn't know that I needed. 0:09:12.727 --> 0:09:15.327 You said, when you're a little girl, you thought I'm 0:09:15.367 --> 0:09:18.287 going to be a famous writer. Yeah, And I think 0:09:18.327 --> 0:09:20.647 you said when we think we know exactly how life's 0:09:20.647 --> 0:09:23.247 going to turn out, and we're going to talk about 0:09:23.247 --> 0:09:25.207 here one moment quite a bit later. But it's a 0:09:25.207 --> 0:09:27.887 book a lot about fate and different paths taken and 0:09:27.927 --> 0:09:31.287 all those things. You are obviously famous writer. But I'm 0:09:31.327 --> 0:09:33.687 sure that the path wasn't exactly how you imagined it. 0:09:34.287 --> 0:09:37.967 No, I don't think I imagined a path at all. Then, 0:09:38.767 --> 0:09:41.367 as you said, I thought you could just choose how 0:09:41.367 --> 0:09:43.967 many children you got to have, and what their names 0:09:44.007 --> 0:09:48.567 would be, and what your career would be. So I 0:09:48.567 --> 0:09:50.487 don't know what that little girl would have thought of 0:09:51.647 --> 0:09:54.487 that path. And people often ask that question, what would 0:09:54.527 --> 0:09:57.167 you say if you could go back in time? And 0:09:57.207 --> 0:09:59.127 sometimes I think I'd say well, you should have started, 0:09:59.167 --> 0:10:02.567 you should have been writing sooner. Maybe you'd be a 0:10:02.607 --> 0:10:06.167 better writer now. But perhaps it just had to happen 0:10:07.127 --> 0:10:08.487 the way it happened. I don't know. 0:10:09.407 --> 0:10:12.167 Young writers ask you for advice, you have said to them, 0:10:12.247 --> 0:10:14.207 lead a bit of a life first, so you've got 0:10:14.247 --> 0:10:15.247 things in your height. 0:10:15.127 --> 0:10:17.927 And I do think that. But then of course there 0:10:17.927 --> 0:10:20.407 are some writers who you know, they're so young, and 0:10:20.447 --> 0:10:23.527 they write brilliant novels straight away, So I wouldn't want 0:10:23.647 --> 0:10:26.487 to stop in a body. If they want to do it, 0:10:26.527 --> 0:10:31.007 they should do it. But yes, my advice would be leader, 0:10:31.287 --> 0:10:33.447 Leader a whole lot of different lives, and then you'll 0:10:33.487 --> 0:10:35.967 have more material to call upon. 0:10:37.047 --> 0:10:38.927 I think that one of the things we talk about 0:10:38.967 --> 0:10:41.767 a little bit on this show is how when you 0:10:41.847 --> 0:10:44.007 sort of get to sort of what we're calling mid 0:10:44.047 --> 0:10:46.887 and we're deliberately like reclaiming that term because the young 0:10:46.927 --> 0:10:48.887 people you probably know this, because you've got young people 0:10:48.927 --> 0:10:53.007 in your life, use it as an insult. Yes, and 0:10:53.047 --> 0:10:56.007 so we're reclaiming it. Yes, But often when you get 0:10:56.007 --> 0:10:57.967 to mid, like the world is sort of telling you 0:10:58.567 --> 0:11:01.927 that you're not that interesting anymore. Yes, but certainly you 0:11:02.567 --> 0:11:06.047 have always known this in your characters, but you write 0:11:06.087 --> 0:11:09.247 about grown up women beautifully and with a real understand 0:11:09.287 --> 0:11:13.047 standing of the multitudes they contain. To use a cliche. 0:11:13.807 --> 0:11:16.407 Is that a deliberate choice? And has anyone ever pushed 0:11:16.407 --> 0:11:18.127 back on that from you? 0:11:18.167 --> 0:11:20.127 No, I don't know if it's a deliberate choice. No. 0:11:20.207 --> 0:11:23.967 I always just wrote what I wanted to write. I 0:11:24.007 --> 0:11:26.127 feel like sometimes when I look back on some of 0:11:26.167 --> 0:11:30.247 my earlier novels and I've got a character in their fifties, now, 0:11:30.287 --> 0:11:32.487 I think, oh, I don't know. I think I would 0:11:32.487 --> 0:11:36.807 have written her differently now. And I think that as 0:11:36.847 --> 0:11:39.887 a reader too, when I go back and read novels 0:11:40.407 --> 0:11:42.727 that I was more interested back then in the daughter, 0:11:42.767 --> 0:11:45.767 and now I'm thinking, but what about the mother? So 0:11:45.847 --> 0:11:49.007 I hope I still did a good job with the 0:11:49.047 --> 0:11:53.567 older characters when I was younger. No. Margaret Atwood says 0:11:53.727 --> 0:11:56.087 to younger writers, you don't know what it's like to 0:11:56.167 --> 0:11:59.367 be seventy because you're not there yet. But I remember 0:11:59.367 --> 0:12:02.927 what it was like to be twenty because I once 0:12:03.167 --> 0:12:06.767 was twenty, which I think is true. But it's interesting 0:12:06.847 --> 0:12:10.727 even when I look back at Big Little Lies. I 0:12:10.767 --> 0:12:12.407 picked that up the other day and I was looking 0:12:12.447 --> 0:12:15.167 at it, and there was a scene where they have 0:12:15.327 --> 0:12:17.767 to stop the car and they have to get the 0:12:17.807 --> 0:12:20.967 booster seat for the little five year old, and I thought, oh, 0:12:20.967 --> 0:12:24.367 that's right. I've totally forgotten that at five you were 0:12:24.367 --> 0:12:27.247 still in the boosters seat, because when I was writing it, 0:12:27.287 --> 0:12:31.207 I was right at that time of my life. So 0:12:32.167 --> 0:12:34.287 I don't know. I often would like to write about 0:12:34.287 --> 0:12:37.727 the age I am right now. And another Margaret, Margaret Drebbel. 0:12:38.047 --> 0:12:40.887 I've noticed she her characters have just got older and 0:12:41.007 --> 0:12:42.647 older with her. 0:12:43.087 --> 0:12:46.447 That's interesting because as you said about Attwoods saying that 0:12:46.527 --> 0:12:48.647 I know what it's like to be twenty, that feels 0:12:48.727 --> 0:12:50.287 like how I talk to my teenage daugher. 0:12:50.447 --> 0:12:52.287 Yes I know, and so I do want to say 0:12:52.327 --> 0:12:53.927 to Margaret, but you don't know what it's like to 0:12:53.967 --> 0:12:54.767 be twenty now. 0:12:54.807 --> 0:12:59.407 Oh yes, yeah, that's true. But it's that interesting thing 0:12:59.447 --> 0:13:01.407 of you know, when people ask you questions like does 0:13:01.487 --> 0:13:05.367 parenting change your attitude to work or whatever? And again, 0:13:05.447 --> 0:13:07.167 the young women I work with will be very anxious 0:13:07.207 --> 0:13:09.007 about that, and I'll say, well, I know what it 0:13:09.167 --> 0:13:12.647 was like to be you and working before I had 0:13:12.647 --> 0:13:15.327 this other focus, and it's okay, Yes, it's all okay. 0:13:15.407 --> 0:13:19.087 Yes, yeah, you know that's right bread out, Yes exactly. 0:13:19.127 --> 0:13:21.207 Do you pick up your you were just saying about 0:13:21.247 --> 0:13:23.687 re reading big little lies? Do you sometimes pick up 0:13:23.687 --> 0:13:26.327 your previous books and them? 0:13:26.487 --> 0:13:28.847 No? I never do. I'm the reason is because there's 0:13:28.847 --> 0:13:34.727 the possibility of a sequel with the kids's teenagers. So no, 0:13:34.887 --> 0:13:39.567 I hate picking it up and reading my old work. Oh. 0:13:39.567 --> 0:13:41.847 Every now and then I think that's okay, But other 0:13:41.927 --> 0:13:46.727 things I think i'd write that differently now. It's like 0:13:46.807 --> 0:13:48.207 hearing your own voice. 0:13:48.327 --> 0:13:52.007 Gives you a cringe, and then hopefully sometimes you read 0:13:52.047 --> 0:13:53.487 a paragraph though and go, oh yeah, I know what 0:13:53.527 --> 0:13:53.967 I'm doing. 0:13:54.607 --> 0:13:58.447 Yea. Sometimes sometimes when people pull out quotes, I think, oh, yeah, 0:13:58.487 --> 0:14:01.367 that was nice and I really liked it with big 0:14:01.407 --> 0:14:05.367 little eyes metal and saying I tend to my grudges 0:14:05.447 --> 0:14:08.287 like little pets and things like that, so I do. 0:14:08.407 --> 0:14:10.927 I like that. It must be interesting for you with 0:14:11.047 --> 0:14:14.727 this back catalog that gains such momentum with the TV, 0:14:14.927 --> 0:14:19.247 with every new adaptation and things, of people rediscovering books 0:14:19.247 --> 0:14:22.447 that you almost left behind so long ago. That must 0:14:22.487 --> 0:14:24.847 be quite strange sometimes if people really want to talk 0:14:24.887 --> 0:14:26.407 to you about it, and do you ever go. 0:14:26.447 --> 0:14:30.167 Yes, I can't remember can't happen. No, I can't, and 0:14:30.207 --> 0:14:33.327 I can't remember what they're talking about. But sometimes they 0:14:33.367 --> 0:14:36.047 do say things which I think, I'm sure that wasn't 0:14:36.087 --> 0:14:38.967 in the book. And I find that so interesting because 0:14:39.007 --> 0:14:41.687 I think what they're doing is they're taking things from 0:14:41.767 --> 0:14:45.367 their own life, and that's why. And I'm thinking that 0:14:45.527 --> 0:14:48.447 they describe a character who looks a particular way, and 0:14:48.487 --> 0:14:52.927 I think, nope, but that's something from their own imagination. Yes, 0:14:52.967 --> 0:14:55.687 they've taken it, Yes, made it their which is really 0:14:55.687 --> 0:14:59.127 special to me because I think every single reader, they're 0:14:59.207 --> 0:15:03.607 using their imagination together with my imagination, and every single 0:15:03.647 --> 0:15:07.527 one of them is having a slightly different experience of 0:15:07.567 --> 0:15:08.007 the book. 0:15:08.327 --> 0:15:11.207 Yes, I mean this is just related to that. I 0:15:11.327 --> 0:15:13.087 know people have asked you about the Big Little Lies 0:15:13.127 --> 0:15:16.207 adaptation a million times because gosh, so brilliant. 0:15:16.647 --> 0:15:19.207 It's one of the reasons that I the reason you 0:15:19.247 --> 0:15:22.927 don't believe them. There are other reasons, Okay, I'm madly 0:15:22.967 --> 0:15:27.327 in love with him. He adores me, he treats me 0:15:27.407 --> 0:15:30.847 like a goddess when he's not hurt of you. Look, 0:15:31.567 --> 0:15:37.767 he's a great father, we have great sex. There's violence, yes, 0:15:37.887 --> 0:15:40.127 in the relationship, and that's why we came in and 0:15:40.167 --> 0:15:44.167 it's an issue. But I mean, all marriages are complicated. 0:15:45.367 --> 0:15:47.927 Is there ever a little like Oh I didn't think 0:15:47.967 --> 0:15:50.487 they were like that. Sometimes if I listen to audiobooks, 0:15:50.527 --> 0:15:52.087 it'll jar me a little bit. Oh, I didn't think 0:15:52.127 --> 0:15:53.567 she sounded like that. Do you know what I mean? 0:15:53.647 --> 0:15:57.327 Yes, yeah, that's right. Oh, yes, definitely. And it just 0:15:58.447 --> 0:16:02.527 a tiny things like when in one of the very 0:16:02.527 --> 0:16:06.487 first scenes, metal And twists her ankle, and so in 0:16:06.527 --> 0:16:10.047 my mind, she twisted her ankle the way I twist, mind, 0:16:10.087 --> 0:16:13.207 because I do that horrible what's it called spinning? Not spinning? 0:16:13.407 --> 0:16:16.127 You just twist over, yeah, twist over onto the side. 0:16:16.527 --> 0:16:19.847 And she went forward. So it's sort of no consequence. 0:16:20.287 --> 0:16:22.447 So you could get caught up and thinking, no, that's 0:16:22.487 --> 0:16:25.367 not the way her ankle should go to the. 0:16:25.407 --> 0:16:27.007 Side, but you have to let it go. 0:16:27.167 --> 0:16:31.167 Yes, yeah, exact, Yes, that's rue. And also I think 0:16:31.287 --> 0:16:34.967 every actor they bring in their own in the same 0:16:35.007 --> 0:16:38.167 way that the readers bring their own experiences. Every actor 0:16:38.207 --> 0:16:42.447 brings their own experiences and things that they've witnessed in 0:16:42.527 --> 0:16:45.407 their own life, so it becomes their own separate creation. 0:16:46.527 --> 0:16:49.767 Talking about hair on moment a little bit, you right, 0:16:49.927 --> 0:16:53.047 I think what I would term grown up women brilliantly, 0:16:53.127 --> 0:16:56.807 like I thought Joy in Apples neverfore was just I 0:16:56.807 --> 0:17:00.647 love Joy so interesting. And Jerry, who's the main character 0:17:00.887 --> 0:17:04.887 in Here One Moment, is older and what I love 0:17:04.927 --> 0:17:06.447 about this And we're going to talk a little bit 0:17:06.447 --> 0:17:08.487 about the pot but the first time you see her 0:17:08.927 --> 0:17:11.127 the way that other people see her as this little 0:17:11.127 --> 0:17:14.207 old lady, almost this neat, tidy, little old lady on 0:17:14.247 --> 0:17:18.607 the plane, and then as the characters are excavated, you 0:17:18.727 --> 0:17:21.367 realize all these things that she's lived through and all 0:17:21.407 --> 0:17:24.727 these amazing experiences she's had. And that's what I think 0:17:25.607 --> 0:17:29.487 midlife women often feel like when they're being overlooked, whether 0:17:29.527 --> 0:17:33.167 they're being overlooked in life or at work or in relationships, 0:17:33.247 --> 0:17:36.887 as sort of like you're becoming invisible, You're fading away, Yes, 0:17:37.527 --> 0:17:43.487 but they've done so much more of my conversation with 0:17:43.607 --> 0:17:47.607 Leanne Murriarty about her new book Mortality and Writing Through 0:17:47.647 --> 0:17:54.007 the Pain after this short break, can you tell us 0:17:54.007 --> 0:17:56.847 a little bit about Here One Moment and how it starts. 0:17:57.247 --> 0:18:00.967 So Here One Moment, I definitely did not start with 0:18:01.007 --> 0:18:05.207 the character of Cherry. I started with the premise, so 0:18:05.447 --> 0:18:09.287 I was on a flight from Hobart to Sydney and 0:18:09.327 --> 0:18:12.127 there was a delay, so I was stuck on the 0:18:12.167 --> 0:18:15.887 plane with the flight was delayed, so everybody was becoming 0:18:15.967 --> 0:18:22.327 increasingly frustrated. People were making lots of phone calls relatives 0:18:22.367 --> 0:18:27.887 and friends, canceling plans. There was one mother who was 0:18:27.927 --> 0:18:30.847 talking to her little girl and she was saying, well, 0:18:30.887 --> 0:18:33.087 you're going to have to wake up daddy and he 0:18:33.127 --> 0:18:37.647 can make dinner for you. And she couldn't wake daddy up. 0:18:37.687 --> 0:18:39.647 So I was listening to this call. She was a 0:18:39.647 --> 0:18:43.247 few seats in front, and I started to think, I 0:18:43.287 --> 0:18:47.047 think Daddy's dead because it was going on for so long, 0:18:47.407 --> 0:18:51.167 and I was texting my husband saying he's dead, He's dead, 0:18:51.207 --> 0:18:54.967 and my husband was saying, no, he's just the poor 0:18:54.967 --> 0:18:57.487 man's just having a nap on the couch. So he 0:18:57.567 --> 0:18:59.727 was no good. So then I texted mum and the 0:19:00.167 --> 0:19:03.687 sister's chat and they were saying, oh no, poor little 0:19:03.807 --> 0:19:06.727 whatever a name, I can't remember a name, poor little Chelsea. 0:19:06.887 --> 0:19:09.687 What's she going to have for a dinner? Oh no, no, no. Anyway, 0:19:10.007 --> 0:19:15.247 my husband was right annoyingly but happily for a poor 0:19:15.287 --> 0:19:19.887 little girl. But that had got me thinking about death. 0:19:20.607 --> 0:19:23.967 And it's probably not surprising because death was probably a 0:19:23.967 --> 0:19:28.167 subject always on my mind at that time for three reasons. 0:19:28.167 --> 0:19:31.127 So the first thing that happened was my sister was 0:19:31.167 --> 0:19:36.447 diagnosed with breast cancer. Then I lost my father. Then 0:19:36.527 --> 0:19:40.167 there was sort of directly after that because after he died, 0:19:40.447 --> 0:19:42.927 as we were walking out of the hospital room, the 0:19:43.007 --> 0:19:45.607 nurses were saying, wash your hands, wash your hands. It 0:19:45.647 --> 0:19:49.007 was the first time that was only just starting at 0:19:49.007 --> 0:19:51.967 the very beginning, and we were very lucky because we 0:19:52.007 --> 0:19:55.847 got to have a wonderful, big funeral, but a week 0:19:55.927 --> 0:20:01.167 after we would not know. And so the whole world 0:20:01.207 --> 0:20:04.127 sort of stared death in the face for such a 0:20:04.167 --> 0:20:07.807 long period. And then I got diagnosed with breast cancer. 0:20:08.287 --> 0:20:12.607 So I think I had just become aware of my 0:20:12.727 --> 0:20:17.047 own mortality. So I'm well now, my sister's well now, 0:20:17.207 --> 0:20:19.807 and also probably just being in your fifties, you just 0:20:19.887 --> 0:20:24.167 have you know, there's a year of a new diagnosis 0:20:24.487 --> 0:20:28.807 so often. So the cheerful thought came into my head 0:20:29.367 --> 0:20:32.927 that everybody on this plane is going to one day. 0:20:33.007 --> 0:20:39.687 Die, and clearly it's true. 0:20:39.807 --> 0:20:43.367 It's true, obviously, And that thing I couldn't get over 0:20:43.527 --> 0:20:46.407 in my head was we're all going to die, and 0:20:46.487 --> 0:20:51.247 one day that information will be available as to how 0:20:51.327 --> 0:20:56.207 and when each of us died. And isn't that fascinating 0:20:56.367 --> 0:20:59.007 that one day we'll know? And then I was looking 0:20:59.007 --> 0:21:01.087 around at people, thinking, you know, will you live to 0:21:01.127 --> 0:21:04.127 be one hundred? Will you be the one whose life 0:21:04.207 --> 0:21:07.087 is cut short? And that's when I thought, imagine if 0:21:07.127 --> 0:21:09.807 somebody stands up and starts pointing it out each of us, 0:21:10.047 --> 0:21:13.287 end says this is your age of death and your 0:21:13.327 --> 0:21:14.087 cause of death. 0:21:14.407 --> 0:21:18.367 And this is how the book begins because that person 0:21:18.687 --> 0:21:21.007 is Cherry I was talking about a little bit before. 0:21:21.047 --> 0:21:26.247 And everybody on the plane gets a different prognosis, and 0:21:26.367 --> 0:21:30.327 some of them are relatively you know, old age when 0:21:30.367 --> 0:21:32.687 you're a hundred, and some of them are much more confronting. 0:21:33.167 --> 0:21:36.287 And then the book then follows a lot of those 0:21:36.407 --> 0:21:39.967 characters as well as Cherry's story. So it very much 0:21:40.007 --> 0:21:44.967 focuses this book on mortality but also on fate. And 0:21:45.007 --> 0:21:48.127 the people in the book have very different reactions to 0:21:48.207 --> 0:21:51.927 being given this information. And I know you just mentioned 0:21:51.927 --> 0:21:56.567 about your own cancer diagnosis, and I've seen you write 0:21:56.607 --> 0:22:00.567 about it that you know you knew that you were 0:22:00.687 --> 0:22:03.567 getting off lightly almost in commas because you'd seen your 0:22:03.607 --> 0:22:08.527 sister go through more invasive treatment. But it still was 0:22:09.447 --> 0:22:11.207 terrifying and upending. 0:22:12.087 --> 0:22:16.447 Yes, yeah, and it was still hard, I realized. Because 0:22:16.487 --> 0:22:21.287 I'm very close to all my sisters, I would keep thinking, well, 0:22:21.367 --> 0:22:24.967 I'm fine because she had to go through so much worse, 0:22:25.847 --> 0:22:29.487 and she definitely never made me feel this way. Nobody 0:22:29.527 --> 0:22:31.607 in my family did. But I kept on doing it 0:22:31.647 --> 0:22:34.567 to myself because I can always remember a school mum 0:22:34.647 --> 0:22:37.927 saying to me standing in the driveway after a pickup, 0:22:37.967 --> 0:22:40.327 and she was asking me about it, and I was 0:22:40.367 --> 0:22:43.327 starting to talk about my sister, and she looked at 0:22:43.367 --> 0:22:45.047 me and she said, well, I don't want to hear 0:22:45.047 --> 0:22:47.407