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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia.

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Speaker 2: Podcast from Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spill, your daily

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Speaker 2: pop culture fixed. I'm Laura Broadneck and today I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by Manisha Sworn, the executive producer of The Spill. Found

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Speaker 2: her way into the hot seat. Have you buried EM's

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Speaker 2: body anywhere.

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Speaker 3: And can't make it today? If I found covered.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry.

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Speaker 2: I've locked her up and it's me. I'm the star

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Speaker 2: you arrive. I'm just sitting here. I'm not gonna ask

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Speaker 2: any questions, just rolling. You're in the charge of making

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Speaker 2: me look good on this spot and how I sound

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Speaker 2: and everything, so I shouldn't play around with this.

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Speaker 3: We don't know what's gonna happen now.

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Speaker 2: If I have to sacrifice Em, who is safe, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: She's in posting up a storm on her Instagram today.

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Speaker 4: She's in Perth. It's fine.

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Speaker 3: We can keep tabs on her pretty easily.

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Speaker 2: But you are the producer of the show. You ducking

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Speaker 2: it out with your hot takes and your recommendations. You

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Speaker 2: hear to host today. I mean, if anyone wants to

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Speaker 2: know what it's really like hosting The Spill. The dirty

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes seat Chris, you could ask Mansia because

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Speaker 2: she's got it all.

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Speaker 3: Throw out the rundown. He's just doing a tell all.

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Speaker 2: I'm just doing a tell all. Yeah, what's the most

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Speaker 2: annoying thing about me being the hoes? Is it when

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Speaker 2: I complain about my hair, my boobs, my seat or

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Speaker 2: the headphones?

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Speaker 5: So many that's the triage. I'd say, like, that's the

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Speaker 5: list of the top three. But no, yeah, if you

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Speaker 5: are a Broadney, oh that was.

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Speaker 2: The correct answer. So we're actually not here to talk

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Speaker 2: about my hair today, although we could that could be

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Speaker 2: a separate pod. We're actually here to talk about one

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Speaker 2: of the wildest late night interviews we have ever seen

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Speaker 2: from a celebrity. And that's all I'm gonna say, because

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Speaker 2: I am still doubting if this is even real or

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Speaker 2: if I just had a weird fever dream and created

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Speaker 2: it in my head. Plus, Lizzo has written an incredibly

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Speaker 2: honest and very vulnerable substack about her cancelation and her

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Speaker 2: weight loss and her fame. We're going to delve into

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Speaker 2: that because it is truly one of the most honest

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Speaker 2: pieces of writing I've ever seen from a celebrity.

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Speaker 4: There's some wild stuff in.

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Speaker 2: There, but first, we have a national victory to talk about,

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Speaker 2: we do.

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Speaker 5: I guess this is how people feel when someone from

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Speaker 5: their country winds an Olympic at all. Yeah, it's akin

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Speaker 5: to that, which does happen to us Astraia a lot famously.

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Speaker 5: But I mean, for me, Dancing with the Stars probably

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Speaker 5: sits above that does say and our beautiful, beautiful national

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Speaker 5: treasure wildlife conservationist Robert Irwin has shimmied his way to

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Speaker 5: Mirrorble fame with his dance partner Whitney Carson, who I

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Speaker 5: also love, and I think she's done a brilliant job

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Speaker 5: this season. And it's ten years after his sister Bindi

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Speaker 5: won the same title, so that is so adorable for

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Speaker 5: their family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she was in the audience with Terry and her

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Speaker 2: husband and everything.

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Speaker 4: They were cheering. It was very very cute.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it just goes to show well,

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Speaker 5: so lovely seeing them in the audience and seeing their

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Speaker 5: reaction to when they found out rob one. They just

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Speaker 5: looked so genuinely delighted and she ran over and like

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Speaker 5: hugged him, And they're just great performers in that family.

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Speaker 5: Like I mean watching him throughout this season, the way

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Speaker 5: he lights up.

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Speaker 2: The Irwin fangirl, it's crazy, Like your face is a

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Speaker 2: glow right now, and talking about.

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Speaker 3: Him, I've come to life because you have like it.

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Speaker 4: You know him?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we got time to fight. Yeah we hang out. No,

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Speaker 3: he didn't invite me to before, but I did.

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Speaker 5: Used to work at the Project and he was quite

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Speaker 5: a regular panelist on the project. He's obviously in the

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Speaker 5: Network ten family, I'm a celeb and all of that,

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Speaker 5: and I think he's just done. I mean, I think

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Speaker 5: he's a lovely, lovely man, and you would have spoken

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Speaker 5: to him. I know everyone who's interviewed him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you've been in meetings with him and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and what can you tell. I'm not me trying to

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Speaker 2: get you to cancel Robert Irwin, but like now would

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Speaker 2: be the time.

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Speaker 3: Well, quite the opposite.

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Speaker 5: I couldn't even say anything cancellable about him because he

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Speaker 5: is exactly how he is on air, that is how he.

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Speaker 3: Is off it I'm talking about. He definitely would not

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Speaker 3: remember me, But I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Rob we did work together, yeah, capacity, But he's lovely

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes.

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Speaker 5: So lovely, very I think he still has that sort

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Speaker 5: of TV presenter energy that him and Bindi do carry

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Speaker 5: that people sometimes think is not authentic, but I'm like,

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Speaker 5: we have to remember these kids grew up in front

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Speaker 5: of the camera, like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're used to being on and being polite and

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Speaker 2: people stopping them since they are little kids and everything.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. Whenever I'm overseas, people like, oh, you're

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Speaker 2: from Australia. I'm like, yes, and especially now, like recently

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Speaker 2: when I was overseas, the first thing people say to

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Speaker 2: me is like, oh, my god, you know that Irwin's

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Speaker 2: Do you know Bindi and Robert Irwin? And like, I

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Speaker 2: mean most people would be able to say that, Thank god,

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Speaker 2: I can say, like I've met them both a few

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Speaker 2: times and they're super lovely, But like that is the

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Speaker 2: first thing that Australians get asked.

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Speaker 3: Now, I feel, yeah, if you don't know the are

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Speaker 3: you actually from Austria.

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Speaker 2: But they're like, surely you guys know each other, like

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Speaker 2: you will hang out and stuff, And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a clubhouse all Australians hang out together.

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Speaker 3: We have dinner.

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Speaker 4: So yeah. So he won the Mirror Ball Trophy.

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Speaker 2: It was like a huge season, like this is one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest seasons, Like Dancing the Stars has been

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Speaker 2: on the air in America for over thirty years now,

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Speaker 2: but this season is like really took off on TikTok

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Speaker 2: and had these crazy fandoms, and I think Robert was

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Speaker 2: always one of the clear winners all the way through.

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Speaker 2: So when it was announced he won, and that was

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Speaker 2: really exciting and it was all like, you know, confetti

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Speaker 2: and everything. But there was a little side story that's

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Speaker 2: been happening that we want to talk about, and that

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Speaker 2: is his alleged which I think is real, very famous

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Speaker 2: new girlfriend that he met on the show, and we

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Speaker 2: got to watch their chemistry. You love chemistry. You got

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Speaker 2: to watch their chemistry live on the show for the

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Speaker 2: first time.

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Speaker 5: Well, she came on because there was this twentieth birthday

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Speaker 5: celebration Dancing with the Stars, so they brought a lot

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Speaker 5: of the old winners and so she actually won in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. Her partner was Val Chmerkovsky. If you

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Speaker 5: guys aren't inter Dancing with the Stars law, the Chmerkovsky brothers.

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Speaker 5: They are two well the older one doesn't do it anymore,

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Speaker 5: but they're two of.

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Speaker 3: The pro dancers.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it there, but they do

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Speaker 5: a deep dive if you want to.

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Speaker 3: So this girl came on. Her name is Zochi Gomez.

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Speaker 5: You probably know her from the Marvel Cinematic Universe film

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Speaker 5: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. She was also

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Speaker 5: Dawn Schaeffer in the Netflix series The Babysitters.

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Speaker 2: She was so good in that I've been obsessed with

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Speaker 2: her since then because yes, I obviously watched that in

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Speaker 2: as adult.

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Speaker 4: So good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I love this girl. That was my inn

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Speaker 2: when her season of Dancing with Stars. That was my

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Speaker 2: inn for the show before this season with like Robert Irwin,

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Speaker 2: because I loved her from a Babysitters Club. I loved

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Speaker 2: her from Marvel and all her interviews and how like

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Speaker 2: well spoken, sweet and funny she was. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know they all go really hard in Dancing with

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Speaker 2: the Stars, but I just got really swept up in

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Speaker 2: all the videos of her like doing her training and

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Speaker 2: like learning to dance, and she would get so emotional.

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Speaker 2: She just like very grew herself into it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: when she won, it was a huge thing. So when

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Speaker 2: she came back to meet Robert, I think it was

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Speaker 2: like it feels like it was like a script from

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Speaker 2: a movie.

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Speaker 3: I know, it just feels meant to be. So she

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Speaker 3: comes back. They do this twentieth birthday celebration.

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Speaker 5: They danced to Dance with Me Tonight by Olimers, which

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Speaker 5: is such a cute song.

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Speaker 3: They do a little give to it. The chemistry is absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Popp And that was the moment from when those clips

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Speaker 2: started surfacing of Zochi and Robert dancing together and they're

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Speaker 2: like they're little hug afterwards and how they walked off,

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Speaker 2: people were like, oh my god, they're in love, and

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Speaker 2: we watched them fall in love in that dance.

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Speaker 5: Well, see, I wasn't initially on board with it because

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Speaker 5: I've been gas lit by Dancing with the Stars before.

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Speaker 3: I always think they're and.

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh my god, I've got some competition. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: take this girl down. What is she nineteen from?

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Speaker 5: I'm not gonna comment, but with Dancing with the Stars,

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Speaker 5: they always do this thing where like they try and

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Speaker 5: drum it up, But in their case, it wasn't a

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Speaker 5: narrative that was I think.

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Speaker 3: They were trying to drum up because they weren't paired together.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: It was meant to be, just like they're matching up

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Speaker 2: past winners, and it's a whole thing of them coming back,

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Speaker 2: which was a huge, like extra rating thing. And I

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Speaker 2: think they just pay them together because they're so similar

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Speaker 2: age that it just made sense that they would dance together.

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Speaker 2: But they didn't need to make a narrative, was what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying. Like, people just watch them dance together, and

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Speaker 2: they were all in we did it ourselves, so hungry

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Speaker 2: for chemistry.

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Speaker 3: They look like a.

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Speaker 5: Little Disney couple because he's so expressive and she's so expressive,

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Speaker 5: and I feel like they would I mean, I don't

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Speaker 5: want to put this on them, but I think they

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Speaker 5: have a lot in common in you know, growing up

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Speaker 5: sort of in the industry and be able to trade

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Speaker 5: a lot of stories.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: There were not putting any pressure on them, so it

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Speaker 2: wasn't just that moment. So they met, and also she

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Speaker 2: was in like the rehearsal room with him, so we

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Speaker 2: had all that footage. And then they were spotted together

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Speaker 2: like with other people after that event, so people were like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, they're dating, They're going out together.

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Speaker 4: They're just trying to hide it.

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Speaker 2: But then she was at the finale and after it

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Speaker 2: was announced that he had won and people were congratulating him.

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Speaker 2: There's footage of her running across the floor through the crowd.

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Speaker 4: They have this really long hug. You look, we're about

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Speaker 4: to cry.

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Speaker 3: You know if you're friends.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay again allegedly.

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Speaker 2: Allegedly they had this beautiful long hug and then he

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Speaker 2: kind of whispers in her I'll see you soon, all right.

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Speaker 4: A man written by creepy right now.

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Speaker 5: Well, she also brought him flowers, which you know, women

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Speaker 5: don't get men flowers enough.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes men want flowers.

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Speaker 5: She got him flowers before the finale, and then after

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Speaker 5: he won.

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Speaker 3: She also put up on.

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Speaker 5: Her instant stories, I'm so incredibly proud of you too,

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Speaker 5: what a season?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean she said you too.

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Speaker 2: Say yeah, because she's trying with the dance partner as well.

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Speaker 2: But we'll just push that aside because it doesn't fit

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Speaker 2: the narrative that I'm trying to put out there, which

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Speaker 2: is that they've fallen madly in love. When he said

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Speaker 2: to her, i'll see you soon. There is an after

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Speaker 2: party that they were all going to, so I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that's what it meant.

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Speaker 5: And if they hadn't already kissed, they'll kiss at the

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Speaker 5: after party.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, okay, allegedly allegedly imagine if this is

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Speaker 2: all we got soup for.

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Speaker 5: But I think The Thing with the Stars is really

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Speaker 5: one of those shows where it is quite a good

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Speaker 5: place to meet someone.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of emotions going on.

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Speaker 5: She would have seen all the raps about you know,

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Speaker 5: him and his dad, and probably like learned a lot

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Speaker 5: about him at the way.

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Speaker 2: Because you're taking this, you learn a lot about the contestant.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so I don't know, I could see it

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Speaker 3: being prime setting.

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Speaker 2: For Yeah, I would actually, And he's talked about, you know,

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Speaker 2: he broke up with his other girlfriend a while ago.

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Speaker 4: He said he was just focusing on dance. But now

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Speaker 4: that's over.

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Speaker 2: I do think Robert Erwin has a very famous new girlfriend.

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Speaker 4: That's just what.

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Speaker 3: They're not looking. That's when they come. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So this week one of my favorite oddball actresses, Kate Beckhamsale,

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Speaker 2: went on the Jimmy Fallon Show, and she told a

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Speaker 2: story that I still am not one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 2: that I didn't somehow make up in my head, although

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Speaker 2: even the depths of my imagination wouldn't have stretched to this,

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Speaker 2: and I can't even usually on the spill I'll just

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Speaker 2: explain most of it in paraphrase. I cannot paraphrases. I

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Speaker 2: cannot explain it. So here is the clip.

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Speaker 6: He laid two eggs in a week, is what the

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Speaker 6: bright spot was.

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Speaker 1: Who did the boyfriend did?

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Speaker 6: He's a Jew from New Jersey and I thought possibly

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Speaker 6: it was that, But I haven't met any of the

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Speaker 6: Jews from New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: You've done that?

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Speaker 4: Could we rewind for just a moment, What does that mean?

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Speaker 5: He's laid too eggs in a week?

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Speaker 6: Well, he said, I've laid an egg, and of course

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Speaker 6: I was like, okay, trying to pull focus on the

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Speaker 6: cancer operation, you know, But it had a shell and a.

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Speaker 3: Yoke, and the egg came out of his body.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I'm not out of his mouth or ears. It

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Speaker 6: came out the root. Did it would come out of

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Speaker 6: the hen. He came out of his egg hole, not

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Speaker 6: his vagina. I mean he went to the bathroom and

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Speaker 6: then was very surprised to find that he had he

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Speaker 6: had laid an egg. So the first time it happened,

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Speaker 6: he was he was genuinely scared and he you know,

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Speaker 6: he was like, it's got a full shell, it's got

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Speaker 6: a yolk, and you know, it's the size of a bird.

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Speaker 1: Well, heed it.

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Speaker 6: Yes, he crushed it because he was inside a yolk

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Speaker 6: was inside like a hard boiled one too, so it

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Speaker 6: just kind of cooked inside him.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, boyfriend's laiden egg. Whatever.

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Speaker 6: And then a week later and I get a text going,

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Speaker 6: oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, he's

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Speaker 6: done it again, and now he's really freaking out. His

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Speaker 6: dad came up with this theory very quickly, like, oh,

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Speaker 6: you were probably on the toilet and the window was

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Speaker 6: open and there was a net outside, and the egg

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Speaker 6: went in your And I was like, Okay.

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Speaker 1: You're very quick with this.

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Speaker 6: You clearly are putting eggs up your son's butt in

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Speaker 6: the night. Do you are you putting eggs upt your bottom?

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Speaker 1: You know? Like, and it's a fair question.

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Speaker 6: I think it's quite hard to put an egg up

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Speaker 6: your bottom and then get it out whole without injuring

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Speaker 6: the egg.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a skill. Tell me that's

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Speaker 1: not the world.

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Speaker 6: I texted all these doctors that I know, and then

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Speaker 6: they texted everyone they were ever at medical school with,

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Speaker 6: so the whole of America was involved.

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Speaker 1: And well, someone said, has he had a light chi

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Speaker 1: and he hadn't.

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Speaker 6: Have you been taking any kind of sleep medications which

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Speaker 6: would involve you perhaps, you know when you like take

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Speaker 6: an ambient and then eat the whole fridge. Have you

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Speaker 6: taken something just shoving? Yeah, No, he hadn't. So it's

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Speaker 6: my favorite thing he's ever done. And I really like

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Speaker 6: him anyway.

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Speaker 2: I just I don't even know well, I mean, the

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Speaker 2: first part of my mind is like she's joking, but.

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Speaker 4: It's a weird joke.

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Speaker 3: Just the thing is, it's a it's a flat out lie. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: unless she believes, maybe she believes.

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Speaker 4: I actually believe.

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Speaker 2: I believe that Kate Beckhacell believes that her daughter's boyfriend

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Speaker 2: did lay two eggs.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: There was just a lot to unpack there. And I'm

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Speaker 2: assuming that her daughter and the boyfriend gave permission for

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Speaker 2: this story to be told. If not, he's getting some

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable text messages and phone calls today. So her daughter

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Speaker 2: is Lily mo Sheen, her daughter with actor Michael Sheen.

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Speaker 2: I think she's a college now, so she's becoming an

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Speaker 2: actress now too, And she's always in instagrams and stuff

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Speaker 2: with her mom, like like they seem to have a

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Speaker 2: very fun mother daughter. Like out in the world Gilmore

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Speaker 2: girls s sometimes like relationship. So I'm assuming that she

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Speaker 2: said it was okay for a mom to go on

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Speaker 2: international TV and tell this story, which has now gone viral.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: The path that really got me was that she starts

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Speaker 5: telling it and then she goes so the first time

341
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Speaker 5: it happened, it kept.

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Speaker 4: Like he just regularly does this.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean?

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Speaker 4: I was don't tell people in the office about this. Yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I was really walking up to people and being like,

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you something, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: anyone was having the correct reaction. They were just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I did say that, and I no, no, no, it's

349
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Speaker 2: not about seeing it. It's about like talking about what

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Speaker 2: happened and the fact that.

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Speaker 3: You're like, we need to get to the bottom of this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm invested.

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Speaker 2: I would to be on the text chain with the doctors,

354
00:13:24,954 --> 00:13:25,954
Speaker 2: know what they're saying.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I have to assume, as you said, she's

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Speaker 5: gotten permission to talk about this, because if it wasn't

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Speaker 5: a joke and this was actually happening, that would be

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Speaker 5: a deeply concerning medical issue.

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Speaker 1: I hope that.

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Speaker 2: Boy is in an icee you somewhere because it also

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Speaker 2: it's the detail she is saying, like, oh, I was worried,

363
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Speaker 2: but she's also saying it a bit too matter of

364
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Speaker 2: factly for me for me to think it's a real thing.

365
00:13:45,914 --> 00:13:48,274
Speaker 2: And the fact that she's like it had a shell,

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Speaker 2: we cut it open and it was a line.

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Speaker 5: There was a yoke, It was yokeless. We wouldn't even

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Speaker 5: be talking about it on the pod.

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Speaker 2: But given the fact the words there was a yog

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Speaker 2: haught me to my dying day.

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00:14:01,314 --> 00:14:03,274
Speaker 5: And also she said it was like hard boiled. She

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Speaker 5: was like, did that like manufacture inside of him?

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Speaker 4: It's just so visual questions.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, this is not a medical podcast, but

375
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say I did look it up and no,

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Speaker 2: humans can't lay a full egg with a yolk in it.

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Speaker 2: So if that happens to you, please see urgent medical Attention.

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Speaker 5: Well, all the comments I was going through, like the

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Speaker 5: and the people were deeply concerns, like it did not

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Speaker 5: register as a joke for most of you. But people

381
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Speaker 5: can have kidney stones question mark, and I'm like, you.

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Speaker 2: Can't usually even see it. I've heard they hurt like

383
00:14:29,474 --> 00:14:31,434
Speaker 2: a bitch coming out, but they're shiny. They're not a

384
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Speaker 2: fully formed egg with a yolk.

385
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Speaker 5: Also, if I laid an egg and I talked about

386
00:14:35,794 --> 00:14:37,474
Speaker 5: that at family dinner, we wouldn't.

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00:14:37,074 --> 00:14:39,314
Speaker 3: Move off that topic. Yeah, this is an ongoing thing.

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00:14:39,714 --> 00:14:42,194
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be having the conversation at family dinner. We'd

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Speaker 2: be having that in an emergency room because I wouldn't

390
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Speaker 2: leave until I found the root cause of why I

391
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Speaker 2: had laid that egg.

392
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Speaker 3: Two eggs, not one, but two. That's where it gets one.

393
00:14:49,794 --> 00:14:53,354
Speaker 3: You write it off. I don't write off things happen

394
00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:53,874
Speaker 3: you grow with.

395
00:14:54,434 --> 00:14:56,634
Speaker 2: If you lay an egg, please don't write it off.

396
00:14:56,674 --> 00:14:57,674
Speaker 2: Seek medical attention.

397
00:14:57,954 --> 00:14:59,234
Speaker 3: I think i'd wait for the second.

398
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Speaker 1: I don't know.

399
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Speaker 4: That's a bad advice.

400
00:15:01,154 --> 00:15:03,314
Speaker 3: Egg to the that's the teaching.

401
00:15:03,434 --> 00:15:04,274
Speaker 4: It could be the raw.

402
00:15:04,834 --> 00:15:06,874
Speaker 2: Let's put that in the skill like bylaws or something

403
00:15:07,034 --> 00:15:09,674
Speaker 2: like you go to the doctor. So here's the thing.

404
00:15:10,114 --> 00:15:11,714
Speaker 2: When I saw this, I had a lot of thoughts

405
00:15:11,794 --> 00:15:14,554
Speaker 2: about yolks and eggs and whatnot. But then my second

406
00:15:14,554 --> 00:15:17,114
Speaker 2: thought about this that I've been thinking about NonStop since

407
00:15:17,154 --> 00:15:19,314
Speaker 2: I saw it yesterday. My second thought is, I think

408
00:15:19,354 --> 00:15:22,474
Speaker 2: we are putting too much pressure on celebrities to go

409
00:15:22,514 --> 00:15:24,914
Speaker 2: on late night talk shows and do a bit and

410
00:15:24,954 --> 00:15:27,754
Speaker 2: tell a funny story. It is now escalated to the

411
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Speaker 2: point where beloved British actress Kate beckhamsale really believe. I

412
00:15:32,794 --> 00:15:36,354
Speaker 2: think she believes it, believes that her daughter's boyfriend laid

413
00:15:36,354 --> 00:15:38,754
Speaker 2: an egg. Because you know what's like you hear celebrities

414
00:15:38,834 --> 00:15:41,554
Speaker 2: talk about the anxiety and the stress they feel, Like

415
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Speaker 2: I feel like some celebrities have more anxiety about going

416
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Speaker 2: on a late night talk show than they often do

417
00:15:46,874 --> 00:15:49,914
Speaker 2: about like how they roll in a movie will be received,

418
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Speaker 2: or how they'll do on a red carp or anything

419
00:15:52,154 --> 00:15:54,994
Speaker 2: like that, because those slots, like they know that that's

420
00:15:55,074 --> 00:15:57,794
Speaker 2: a huge part of their promo tourre it gets watched

421
00:15:57,794 --> 00:16:00,274
Speaker 2: by millions of people, the clips go viral. But also

422
00:16:00,434 --> 00:16:02,314
Speaker 2: like there's this whole thing of like you want to

423
00:16:02,314 --> 00:16:04,194
Speaker 2: be a good guest and like you want to have

424
00:16:04,234 --> 00:16:06,714
Speaker 2: a good bit and being entertainer. So we know that

425
00:16:06,754 --> 00:16:10,274
Speaker 2: produce uses from these shows call up the celebrities well

426
00:16:10,314 --> 00:16:12,474
Speaker 2: in advance and they ask them all these questions and

427
00:16:12,474 --> 00:16:15,514
Speaker 2: they mind them for stories. And Christen Bell even talks

428
00:16:15,514 --> 00:16:17,074
Speaker 2: about it a lot, like that's her biggest thing of

429
00:16:17,074 --> 00:16:18,634
Speaker 2: like I've got to tell a good story, I've got

430
00:16:18,674 --> 00:16:19,594
Speaker 2: to do a bid good bit.

431
00:16:19,634 --> 00:16:20,314
Speaker 4: What can I do?

432
00:16:20,914 --> 00:16:23,754
Speaker 2: And then like that becomes this huge stress and then

433
00:16:23,754 --> 00:16:25,514
Speaker 2: they go and put on this big performance.

434
00:16:25,554 --> 00:16:27,114
Speaker 4: So I wonder if that pressure.

435
00:16:26,754 --> 00:16:28,954
Speaker 2: Has like escalated, like you know, like you used to

436
00:16:28,954 --> 00:16:31,194
Speaker 2: do that, right, used to.

437
00:16:30,634 --> 00:16:31,874
Speaker 4: Tell people a really bad thing.

438
00:16:31,914 --> 00:16:34,274
Speaker 2: You used to do that, right, you'll tell make people

439
00:16:34,394 --> 00:16:35,354
Speaker 2: think they laid eggs.

440
00:16:35,954 --> 00:16:36,514
Speaker 4: Not quite that.

441
00:16:36,674 --> 00:16:39,034
Speaker 5: But I was a TV producer before this, and there

442
00:16:39,114 --> 00:16:41,714
Speaker 5: is a lot of that pre production stuff that does happen,

443
00:16:41,914 --> 00:16:44,154
Speaker 5: and before I worked in that role, just as a viewer,

444
00:16:44,194 --> 00:16:46,874
Speaker 5: I don't think I realized how much goes into manufacturing

445
00:16:47,154 --> 00:16:48,794
Speaker 5: those moments, like no one's just coming up with.

446
00:16:48,714 --> 00:16:50,594
Speaker 2: That egg store, because they make it look because the

447
00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:53,314
Speaker 2: host always acts like they're just hearing it. This is

448
00:16:53,394 --> 00:16:56,154
Speaker 2: the first time that came up really organically. So they'll

449
00:16:56,194 --> 00:16:58,354
Speaker 2: just wander out like celebrity will wander outs on the

450
00:16:58,434 --> 00:16:59,834
Speaker 2: chair and they'll be like, what have you been up

451
00:16:59,834 --> 00:17:02,034
Speaker 2: too recently? And they'll be like, oh my god, crazy

452
00:17:02,074 --> 00:17:03,474
Speaker 2: other day, I got stuck in an elevator and the

453
00:17:03,474 --> 00:17:05,314
Speaker 2: host pretends not to know, but they do know, they

454
00:17:05,354 --> 00:17:08,113
Speaker 2: definitely know, And the sleds usually practice like they I've

455
00:17:08,154 --> 00:17:11,113
Speaker 2: heard felebs say this. They practice it to get the

456
00:17:11,194 --> 00:17:12,394
Speaker 2: telling and the beats right.

457
00:17:12,714 --> 00:17:14,794
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you're not walking into an interview if you're

458
00:17:14,794 --> 00:17:17,234
Speaker 5: a celebrity of any level without like your prs looked

459
00:17:17,234 --> 00:17:17,954
Speaker 5: over all the points.

460
00:17:18,034 --> 00:17:20,154
Speaker 3: They've looked over all the points. Multiple people have signed

461
00:17:20,154 --> 00:17:20,513
Speaker 3: off on this.

462
00:17:20,794 --> 00:17:23,114
Speaker 5: There's usually depending on the level of celebrity, you'll either

463
00:17:23,114 --> 00:17:25,634
Speaker 5: talk to them or you'll talk to the person handling them. Yeah,

464
00:17:25,674 --> 00:17:27,674
Speaker 5: And a lot of the times because obviously, when you're

465
00:17:27,674 --> 00:17:29,874
Speaker 5: doing interviews like that, you're coming on to promote book,

466
00:17:29,914 --> 00:17:32,033
Speaker 5: you're coming on to promoter movie, a song, whatever.

467
00:17:32,314 --> 00:17:33,994
Speaker 3: That's not what the interviewer wants to talk.

468
00:17:33,834 --> 00:17:34,274
Speaker 4: To you about.

469
00:17:34,394 --> 00:17:36,154
Speaker 5: That's the reason you're there, so we can ask you

470
00:17:36,314 --> 00:17:38,554
Speaker 5: the funny, weird things or who your celebrity best friend

471
00:17:38,634 --> 00:17:40,033
Speaker 5: is or who you're kissing at the moment.

472
00:17:40,274 --> 00:17:41,394
Speaker 3: That's the stuff that you want.

473
00:17:41,554 --> 00:17:44,154
Speaker 5: So a lot of the time, the production person or whatever,

474
00:17:44,234 --> 00:17:47,154
Speaker 5: we're trawling the internet looking through their social media looking

475
00:17:47,194 --> 00:17:49,714
Speaker 5: for any little clues they could give you an idea

476
00:17:49,754 --> 00:17:52,474
Speaker 5: of a weird, quirky story or what that moment of

477
00:17:52,514 --> 00:17:54,354
Speaker 5: the interview is gonna be that's gonna go viral, or

478
00:17:54,354 --> 00:17:55,834
Speaker 5: that everyone's going to talk about because it's not going

479
00:17:55,874 --> 00:17:56,954
Speaker 5: to be then plugging the menu book.

480
00:17:57,074 --> 00:17:59,834
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. The interesting thing about this is that

481
00:17:59,914 --> 00:18:03,954
Speaker 2: Jimmy Fallon did look. I actually believe he's genuinely shocked

482
00:18:04,314 --> 00:18:06,194
Speaker 2: in this slip because I'm assuming that he got his

483
00:18:06,314 --> 00:18:08,074
Speaker 2: run shot of his guests and who they're talking about,

484
00:18:08,234 --> 00:18:11,074
Speaker 2: and they said, Kate beckhamsale funny egg story. Kate's on

485
00:18:11,114 --> 00:18:13,554
Speaker 2: that show a lot, she tells funny stories. He was

486
00:18:13,594 --> 00:18:15,794
Speaker 2: probably like, oh, yeah, this will like whatever Kate wants

487
00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:17,353
Speaker 2: to say will be great. And then she came out

488
00:18:17,394 --> 00:18:18,234
Speaker 2: with that and he's like, I just.

489
00:18:18,234 --> 00:18:19,234
Speaker 4: Don't know it.

490
00:18:19,394 --> 00:18:22,313
Speaker 2: Just so the thing is like there's so many stories

491
00:18:22,314 --> 00:18:24,033
Speaker 2: that you can just tell if it's a joke or

492
00:18:24,074 --> 00:18:26,354
Speaker 2: like they've punched it up, but I just there's no

493
00:18:26,434 --> 00:18:27,234
Speaker 2: punchline to this.

494
00:18:27,474 --> 00:18:29,273
Speaker 4: It just like on. She just goes on and on

495
00:18:29,354 --> 00:18:30,154
Speaker 4: like she believes it.

496
00:18:30,434 --> 00:18:32,474
Speaker 2: And then she's like, yeah, it's a real medical situation,

497
00:18:32,554 --> 00:18:33,553
Speaker 2: like he's quite worried about it.

498
00:18:33,594 --> 00:18:35,394
Speaker 4: And then like they just go to commercial break.

499
00:18:35,194 --> 00:18:37,354
Speaker 5: And she shows them the photo. She's like the and

500
00:18:37,354 --> 00:18:39,114
Speaker 5: they're all looking at it. I know all that that

501
00:18:39,234 --> 00:18:40,914
Speaker 5: I can't look at that photo was so intense.

502
00:18:40,994 --> 00:18:41,434
Speaker 3: I reckon.

503
00:18:41,434 --> 00:18:43,994
Speaker 5: The production team would have obviously found out about this

504
00:18:44,074 --> 00:18:45,754
Speaker 5: been like, we are sitting on a gold mine, like this.

505
00:18:45,674 --> 00:18:48,074
Speaker 3: Egg story, give her extra time, and they.

506
00:18:48,034 --> 00:18:50,833
Speaker 5: Would have intentionally held that back from him and been like,

507
00:18:50,954 --> 00:18:52,874
Speaker 5: we want an organic, genuine reaction, cause people do that

508
00:18:52,914 --> 00:18:54,754
Speaker 5: all the time, Like you want the actual first reaction

509
00:18:54,874 --> 00:18:55,314
Speaker 5: on the show.

510
00:18:55,434 --> 00:18:56,154
Speaker 4: So may questions.

511
00:18:56,234 --> 00:18:58,994
Speaker 2: The thing is like, though we know Kate beckhamsale like

512
00:18:58,994 --> 00:19:00,914
Speaker 2: I was saying before, when you look at her, she

513
00:19:00,994 --> 00:19:05,114
Speaker 2: looks like this classical English rose actress, and so many

514
00:19:05,154 --> 00:19:08,154
Speaker 2: people grow up watching her in like Pearl Harbor was

515
00:19:08,194 --> 00:19:10,553
Speaker 2: her really big first breakout role, like I love her

516
00:19:10,634 --> 00:19:13,434
Speaker 2: and Sarah and Dippity and Van Helsing and all these movies.

517
00:19:13,554 --> 00:19:15,834
Speaker 4: And but over the years she has.

518
00:19:15,754 --> 00:19:18,033
Speaker 2: Really put herself out there as like a prankster and

519
00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:21,273
Speaker 2: like a funny storyteller. And I wonder if this is

520
00:19:21,354 --> 00:19:24,274
Speaker 2: just a weird escalation of that, because I know she's

521
00:19:24,314 --> 00:19:27,434
Speaker 2: like she travels with a weird horse costume in her

522
00:19:27,434 --> 00:19:30,474
Speaker 2: suitcase that she'll often put on to prank people. And

523
00:19:30,474 --> 00:19:32,514
Speaker 2: then it's a two parter is so sometimes someone else

524
00:19:32,514 --> 00:19:34,874
Speaker 2: could get in the back, and like that's her life.

525
00:19:34,914 --> 00:19:38,834
Speaker 5: And she's also not conventional for my trouble with a

526
00:19:38,874 --> 00:19:39,554
Speaker 5: horse costume.

527
00:19:39,674 --> 00:19:41,434
Speaker 2: There is this whole thing about like a rabbit being sent

528
00:19:41,474 --> 00:19:43,194
Speaker 2: to her house that she was saying she know where

529
00:19:43,194 --> 00:19:46,033
Speaker 2: it was. She tells wild stories, like I.

530
00:19:46,074 --> 00:19:48,114
Speaker 5: Wonder it's one of those things where she's such a beautiful,

531
00:19:48,194 --> 00:19:51,513
Speaker 5: successful woman and she's like, I've got to have some quirks.

532
00:19:51,554 --> 00:19:53,194
Speaker 3: I've got to like manufacture some quirks.

533
00:19:53,394 --> 00:19:55,834
Speaker 2: I think sometimes some people go through life being so

534
00:19:55,874 --> 00:19:58,994
Speaker 2: beautiful and loved that there's no there's no filter on them.

535
00:19:59,034 --> 00:20:00,794
Speaker 2: Like she she just so used to them to say

536
00:20:00,794 --> 00:20:03,033
Speaker 2: whatever she wants and do whatever she wants and be

537
00:20:03,274 --> 00:20:05,834
Speaker 2: like this crazy quirky person. Anyone else would be like

538
00:20:05,874 --> 00:20:08,354
Speaker 2: shunned from society. But everyone's like, oh Kate.

539
00:20:08,674 --> 00:20:11,954
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe she specialized that anyone would think badly of her.

540
00:20:12,194 --> 00:20:14,314
Speaker 5: Well, I was actually talking in like a girl's group

541
00:20:14,354 --> 00:20:15,434
Speaker 5: chat about this clips.

542
00:20:15,274 --> 00:20:17,354
Speaker 3: And you were about to talk about it about the egg.

543
00:20:17,514 --> 00:20:19,114
Speaker 5: And someone was saying to me, and I think this

544
00:20:19,194 --> 00:20:21,674
Speaker 5: is true because everything now, as we're saying, it's like

545
00:20:21,874 --> 00:20:24,314
Speaker 5: a viral clip factory, and we're trying to get more

546
00:20:24,314 --> 00:20:26,553
Speaker 5: and more outrageous. So to be outrageous, you have to

547
00:20:26,554 --> 00:20:29,634
Speaker 5: be really outrageous. So much out there, but we were

548
00:20:29,674 --> 00:20:32,874
Speaker 5: actually saying, maybe now we'll do a loop back and

549
00:20:32,914 --> 00:20:35,074
Speaker 5: what's going to cut through. We'll just be going back

550
00:20:35,074 --> 00:20:36,874
Speaker 5: to the normal things of like you know, so, how

551
00:20:36,954 --> 00:20:39,514
Speaker 5: is it on set? Just craving a bit of normalcy

552
00:20:39,554 --> 00:20:41,874
Speaker 5: and something you don't have to watch three times to understand.

553
00:20:42,274 --> 00:20:44,073
Speaker 3: So maybe we'll go back to being a little bit

554
00:20:44,074 --> 00:20:44,674
Speaker 3: more normaly.

555
00:20:45,034 --> 00:20:48,394
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe this has ended the great like late

556
00:20:48,514 --> 00:20:51,074
Speaker 2: night talk show kind of shoos spic cycle.

557
00:20:51,194 --> 00:20:53,234
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the egg story is the end.

558
00:20:53,394 --> 00:20:56,674
Speaker 2: I think a human male laying two yolk filled eggs

559
00:20:56,914 --> 00:20:57,674
Speaker 2: is enough to do that.

560
00:20:57,834 --> 00:20:58,994
Speaker 3: He did not lay those eggs.

561
00:20:59,194 --> 00:21:01,114
Speaker 5: I mean I wanted to see a I don't want

562
00:21:01,114 --> 00:21:02,714
Speaker 5: to see it, but like I will believe it if

563
00:21:02,714 --> 00:21:04,594
Speaker 5: I see a video of the egg coming out of him,

564
00:21:04,594 --> 00:21:05,914
Speaker 5: not him and the egg later.

565
00:21:05,994 --> 00:21:06,994
Speaker 3: I literally need to see.

566
00:21:06,874 --> 00:21:08,114
Speaker 4: The coming out.

567
00:21:08,274 --> 00:21:09,914
Speaker 2: I really don't know how we're going to set that up,

568
00:21:09,954 --> 00:21:12,553
Speaker 2: but I want the answer to this more than anything

569
00:21:12,554 --> 00:21:15,554
Speaker 2: else in the world. I want this more. I don't

570
00:21:15,594 --> 00:21:17,434
Speaker 2: care about the moon landing. I don't care what happened

571
00:21:17,434 --> 00:21:20,034
Speaker 2: between Meghan and Harry and the royal family or any

572
00:21:20,074 --> 00:21:22,754
Speaker 2: other contents and carry class, and that's not my business.

573
00:21:22,794 --> 00:21:24,954
Speaker 2: I care do this man lay an egg and someone

574
00:21:25,034 --> 00:21:25,353
Speaker 2: tell me?

575
00:21:25,434 --> 00:21:27,474
Speaker 3: But if we see it, I'll just think it's AI generated.

576
00:21:27,714 --> 00:21:29,634
Speaker 3: I know, I won't believe. I think I need to

577
00:21:29,634 --> 00:21:30,194
Speaker 3: see it live.

578
00:21:31,434 --> 00:21:32,954
Speaker 2: So we need to get First of all, we need

579
00:21:32,994 --> 00:21:36,313
Speaker 2: to befriend the Beckham Sale family and by extension, the

580
00:21:36,314 --> 00:21:37,114
Speaker 2: boyfriend didn't do that.

581
00:21:37,154 --> 00:21:38,394
Speaker 3: I think you're very well connected.

582
00:21:38,634 --> 00:21:41,354
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe Kate would actually appreciate the honesty. And I

583
00:21:41,354 --> 00:21:43,234
Speaker 2: was like, we just want to be involved in the process. Yeah,

584
00:21:43,394 --> 00:21:45,594
Speaker 2: and maybe like all the you can give me why, Yeah,

585
00:21:45,634 --> 00:21:48,354
Speaker 2: we fly ourselves to she lives in La.

586
00:21:48,114 --> 00:21:49,554
Speaker 3: Tas deductible because it's for work.

587
00:21:49,634 --> 00:21:51,834
Speaker 2: Yea, No, work's paying for it. We're not buying our

588
00:21:51,874 --> 00:21:55,394
Speaker 2: own egg ticquets to do this recreationally. And this is

589
00:21:55,434 --> 00:21:57,554
Speaker 2: what And then we I guess we spend a lot

590
00:21:57,554 --> 00:21:58,474
Speaker 2: of time with this man.

591
00:21:59,074 --> 00:21:59,434
Speaker 4: I'm glad.

592
00:21:59,874 --> 00:22:01,114
Speaker 1: How much time do we have to spend?

593
00:22:01,114 --> 00:22:03,194
Speaker 4: Well watch the egg coming out?

594
00:22:03,314 --> 00:22:05,234
Speaker 5: Well, it sounds like it's pretty regular, like we might

595
00:22:05,354 --> 00:22:07,634
Speaker 5: just to go to dinner and then afterwards be like, shoot,

596
00:22:07,714 --> 00:22:08,834
Speaker 5: go back for a drink, and.

597
00:22:08,794 --> 00:22:11,234
Speaker 2: Then I mean this would have to and then we

598
00:22:11,274 --> 00:22:13,754
Speaker 2: make an investigative podcast just off this because you have

599
00:22:13,794 --> 00:22:16,794
Speaker 2: to be like naked. It's getting weird, but like, how

600
00:22:16,794 --> 00:22:18,114
Speaker 2: do we feel the past weird?

601
00:22:18,154 --> 00:22:19,194
Speaker 4: Like in twenty minutes ago?

602
00:22:19,354 --> 00:22:22,874
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, So what's so the teaching here is.

603
00:22:22,834 --> 00:22:24,554
Speaker 2: That I'm gonna keep an eye on this and I'm

604
00:22:24,554 --> 00:22:26,674
Speaker 2: gonna try and figure out if there's any news on

605
00:22:26,714 --> 00:22:29,474
Speaker 2: the egg front, will let spillers know. But I think

606
00:22:29,514 --> 00:22:32,553
Speaker 2: the big takeaway is that potentially, yeah, the late night

607
00:22:32,594 --> 00:22:35,074
Speaker 2: talk show, the pressure on sleds too much, we broke.

608
00:22:34,914 --> 00:22:37,313
Speaker 3: Them getting out of hands. Let's just talk about what

609
00:22:37,314 --> 00:22:38,034
Speaker 3: happens in movies.

610
00:22:38,754 --> 00:22:39,194
Speaker 4: Stick to that.

611
00:22:40,954 --> 00:22:41,033
Speaker 6: So.

612
00:22:41,114 --> 00:22:42,954
Speaker 2: I know, just last week, Emily and I were saying

613
00:22:42,954 --> 00:22:45,793
Speaker 2: that celebrities shouldn't be on substack because they've got all

614
00:22:45,834 --> 00:22:47,954
Speaker 2: their other platforms to use. But I'm gonna make a

615
00:22:47,954 --> 00:22:51,034
Speaker 2: special exception in this case because I read a new

616
00:22:51,074 --> 00:22:53,554
Speaker 2: substack written by Lizzo a couple of days ago when

617
00:22:53,554 --> 00:22:56,354
Speaker 2: she posted it, and I cannot stop thinking about it,

618
00:22:56,354 --> 00:22:58,714
Speaker 2: and I think it's really important to discuss. So the

619
00:22:58,754 --> 00:23:01,273
Speaker 2: title of this substack that she wrote is why is

620
00:23:01,314 --> 00:23:04,273
Speaker 2: everybody losing weight? And what do we do? Sincerely a

621
00:23:04,274 --> 00:23:08,434
Speaker 2: person who's lost weight? So Lizo very publicly has been

622
00:23:08,514 --> 00:23:10,634
Speaker 2: on a bit of a saying, like weight loss journey,

623
00:23:10,754 --> 00:23:12,994
Speaker 2: she's been very open to the fact that she's been

624
00:23:13,314 --> 00:23:16,554
Speaker 2: trying to lose weight, and she's talked about different exercise

625
00:23:16,634 --> 00:23:19,273
Speaker 2: regimes that she's done and what she's been eating. She's

626
00:23:19,594 --> 00:23:22,794
Speaker 2: posted before and after picks along the way to her fans,

627
00:23:22,834 --> 00:23:25,273
Speaker 2: which she addresses the sort of backlash around that and

628
00:23:25,314 --> 00:23:28,234
Speaker 2: this piece. So I was really interested to read a

629
00:23:28,314 --> 00:23:32,034
Speaker 2: long form piece sort of completely in her words, talking

630
00:23:32,074 --> 00:23:35,273
Speaker 2: about something that she's received a lot of backlash for

631
00:23:35,434 --> 00:23:38,474
Speaker 2: over the years. So she starts off by saying I

632
00:23:38,514 --> 00:23:40,954
Speaker 2: started losing weight in the fall of twenty twenty three,

633
00:23:41,114 --> 00:23:42,634
Speaker 2: and then she goes on talk about that she was

634
00:23:42,674 --> 00:23:45,553
Speaker 2: severely depressed, and then she says I had been the

635
00:23:45,594 --> 00:23:48,154
Speaker 2: subject of a vicious scandal and it felt like the

636
00:23:48,194 --> 00:23:50,714
Speaker 2: whole world turned its back on me. She goes on

637
00:23:50,754 --> 00:23:53,074
Speaker 2: to say that she was then having suicidal thoughts, she

638
00:23:53,074 --> 00:23:55,994
Speaker 2: couldn't trust anyone, she felt like the world was kicking

639
00:23:56,074 --> 00:23:58,114
Speaker 2: her when she was down. Also, this is like really

640
00:23:58,194 --> 00:24:00,754
Speaker 2: confronting to read. She's like, I knew my fifteen minutes

641
00:24:00,794 --> 00:24:03,754
Speaker 2: of fame were over, which is so crazy to think about.

642
00:24:03,794 --> 00:24:06,634
Speaker 2: Like her being the biggest and most beloved pop star

643
00:24:06,714 --> 00:24:09,114
Speaker 2: in the world for quite a while there, sitting at

644
00:24:09,154 --> 00:24:11,553
Speaker 2: home and being like this is over. And then she

645
00:24:11,674 --> 00:24:14,834
Speaker 2: talked about wanting to turn this position that she was

646
00:24:14,914 --> 00:24:17,834
Speaker 2: in into power and how she would kind of do

647
00:24:17,914 --> 00:24:20,833
Speaker 2: that by changing her body and controlling what she was eating.

648
00:24:21,354 --> 00:24:23,954
Speaker 2: And so when she's talking about the scandal there, I mean,

649
00:24:23,994 --> 00:24:25,714
Speaker 2: there are a few different things to do with her

650
00:24:25,794 --> 00:24:27,994
Speaker 2: body and everything, but the biggest one that she was

651
00:24:28,034 --> 00:24:31,394
Speaker 2: accused of multiple people that she worked with, so dancers

652
00:24:31,394 --> 00:24:34,834
Speaker 2: and a stylist, of harassment in the workplace. There were

653
00:24:35,074 --> 00:24:40,033
Speaker 2: allegations of sexual harassment and racial harassment, and the lawsuits

654
00:24:40,114 --> 00:24:43,634
Speaker 2: were made public about this hostile work environment that was created,

655
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:47,074
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of allegations in there about

656
00:24:47,274 --> 00:24:49,354
Speaker 2: things that her dancers said that she made them do,

657
00:24:49,714 --> 00:24:51,634
Speaker 2: like taking them to sex clubs and forcing them to

658
00:24:51,634 --> 00:24:54,914
Speaker 2: do different things, saying the toxic work environment was about,

659
00:24:54,954 --> 00:24:56,714
Speaker 2: like not letting them have breaks they felt too scared

660
00:24:56,714 --> 00:24:58,634
Speaker 2: to go the bathroom. These are all the allegations that

661
00:24:58,674 --> 00:25:02,394
Speaker 2: were in the legal documents. So those lawsuits now have

662
00:25:02,634 --> 00:25:06,074
Speaker 2: been dismissed, although there is still people who were pursuing

663
00:25:06,154 --> 00:25:09,674
Speaker 2: legal action. Again Lozo's actual companies with the company itself

664
00:25:10,074 --> 00:25:14,394
Speaker 2: but that really just had a huge domino effect on

665
00:25:14,514 --> 00:25:18,194
Speaker 2: her entire business, on her music, and on her career,

666
00:25:18,434 --> 00:25:21,274
Speaker 2: and sort of setting that aside. Because the case was dismissed,

667
00:25:21,714 --> 00:25:24,594
Speaker 2: allegations on both sides, dances are still sort of saying

668
00:25:24,594 --> 00:25:27,474
Speaker 2: that what they said was correct. Lizzo has denied all

669
00:25:27,514 --> 00:25:29,833
Speaker 2: the allegations all the way through, so we don't know

670
00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:32,793
Speaker 2: what's happened there. But when she says crisis at the

671
00:25:32,794 --> 00:25:35,273
Speaker 2: top of the subtect, that's what she's talking about, and

672
00:25:35,274 --> 00:25:38,354
Speaker 2: then goes into the rest of the reality of what

673
00:25:38,434 --> 00:25:40,514
Speaker 2: happened to her. And I know that you had quite

674
00:25:40,794 --> 00:25:42,714
Speaker 2: an intense reaction to reading us as well.

675
00:25:43,074 --> 00:25:46,394
Speaker 5: Yeah, I felt the way she wrote this was so raw,

676
00:25:46,514 --> 00:25:49,074
Speaker 5: and obviously it's becoming more of a thing with substack,

677
00:25:49,114 --> 00:25:52,114
Speaker 5: but getting an insight into a celebrity's mindset when they

678
00:25:52,114 --> 00:25:54,033
Speaker 5: go through something like this that is quite public and

679
00:25:54,034 --> 00:25:56,554
Speaker 5: then they actually personally write this. I thought a lot

680
00:25:56,554 --> 00:25:58,394
Speaker 5: of empathy for her reading is. I know there is

681
00:25:58,434 --> 00:26:00,354
Speaker 5: a lot of context that goes into it with everything

682
00:26:00,394 --> 00:26:02,194
Speaker 5: you were saying, with the court case and all of that,

683
00:26:02,474 --> 00:26:05,394
Speaker 5: but just her talking about her own journey with this,

684
00:26:05,874 --> 00:26:06,194
Speaker 5: I mean, it.

685
00:26:06,154 --> 00:26:08,314
Speaker 3: Would be incredibly hardh she's considered.

686
00:26:07,954 --> 00:26:11,154
Speaker 5: Such a breakthrough artist for bringing plus size visibility to

687
00:26:11,234 --> 00:26:15,354
Speaker 5: the mainstream pop space, and people do connect to you

688
00:26:15,434 --> 00:26:17,234
Speaker 5: and put a lot on you, and there is a

689
00:26:17,234 --> 00:26:19,274
Speaker 5: lot of resulting pressure. I mean, we've seen that kind

690
00:26:19,314 --> 00:26:21,553
Speaker 5: of thing with when Adele lost weight and when Rebel

691
00:26:21,594 --> 00:26:23,714
Speaker 5: Wilson lost weight. But just hearing her sort of talk

692
00:26:23,754 --> 00:26:26,513
Speaker 5: about I guess what motivated her to do it, and

693
00:26:26,554 --> 00:26:28,274
Speaker 5: then also the response that.

694
00:26:28,194 --> 00:26:30,874
Speaker 3: She's been getting. Yeah, it is quite hard to read

695
00:26:30,954 --> 00:26:33,874
Speaker 3: at times. Yeah, absolutely, So one part that.

696
00:26:33,874 --> 00:26:35,594
Speaker 5: I thought was really interesting in the way that she

697
00:26:35,714 --> 00:26:38,714
Speaker 5: explained it was that she sort of reframes losing weight

698
00:26:38,834 --> 00:26:41,434
Speaker 5: and she sort of calls it releasing, Like she talks

699
00:26:41,474 --> 00:26:45,194
Speaker 5: about how it's releasing this stored grief and experiences for her,

700
00:26:45,554 --> 00:26:48,834
Speaker 5: rather than sort of chasing this thin ideal body. So

701
00:26:48,954 --> 00:26:51,714
Speaker 5: she says in one part, after talking to a few therapists,

702
00:26:51,754 --> 00:26:54,354
Speaker 5: I discovered that my weight had been a protective shield,

703
00:26:54,634 --> 00:26:57,794
Speaker 5: a joyful comfort zone, and even sometimes a superhero suit

704
00:26:57,834 --> 00:27:00,474
Speaker 5: to protect me through life. My weight, like my hair,

705
00:27:00,634 --> 00:27:03,553
Speaker 5: represented time. It stored energy and I wanted to release

706
00:27:03,594 --> 00:27:06,434
Speaker 5: myself from it. So from that moment, any weight on

707
00:27:06,474 --> 00:27:09,314
Speaker 5: my physical body that was subtracted was not a pound lost,

708
00:27:09,394 --> 00:27:12,554
Speaker 5: but a pound released. It was energetic for me, not vain.

709
00:27:12,954 --> 00:27:14,634
Speaker 5: And I just thought that was quite interesting because she

710
00:27:14,674 --> 00:27:17,834
Speaker 5: has talked a lot about how since her father passed

711
00:27:17,834 --> 00:27:20,474
Speaker 5: away in two thousand and nine, she sort of had

712
00:27:20,514 --> 00:27:24,034
Speaker 5: a different relationship with food after that, had some relationships

713
00:27:24,074 --> 00:27:27,474
Speaker 5: that were quite deeply abusive and toxic. She was supporting

714
00:27:27,514 --> 00:27:29,714
Speaker 5: her family, there was a lot going on in her life,

715
00:27:29,754 --> 00:27:31,554
Speaker 5: and she sort of framed this as I just wanted

716
00:27:31,594 --> 00:27:33,513
Speaker 5: to let go of all of that, and this was

717
00:27:33,514 --> 00:27:36,434
Speaker 5: sort of a physical embodiment, and she's I don't think

718
00:27:36,474 --> 00:27:38,834
Speaker 5: she's saying that anyone going on a weight lost journey

719
00:27:38,834 --> 00:27:41,074
Speaker 5: this would be their reason. She's just saying for her,

720
00:27:41,194 --> 00:27:42,834
Speaker 5: that was the reason that she embarked on it, and

721
00:27:42,914 --> 00:27:44,593
Speaker 5: it's sort of what pushed her to do it.

722
00:27:45,034 --> 00:27:45,274
Speaker 3: Yeah.

723
00:27:45,274 --> 00:27:47,274
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's always been the hard thing with Lizzo

724
00:27:47,394 --> 00:27:49,554
Speaker 2: is that so much when you sort of listen to

725
00:27:49,594 --> 00:27:52,353
Speaker 2: her backstory and how she blew up her career. She

726
00:27:52,474 --> 00:27:54,754
Speaker 2: just came into the scene being like like most people

727
00:27:54,754 --> 00:27:57,194
Speaker 2: who had that level of success, She's like, I just

728
00:27:57,194 --> 00:28:00,074
Speaker 2: wanted to sing and dance and be a performer. But

729
00:28:00,234 --> 00:28:03,754
Speaker 2: because she was the only plus sized pop star because

730
00:28:03,754 --> 00:28:05,634
Speaker 2: she's one of the few women of color and all

731
00:28:05,674 --> 00:28:07,994
Speaker 2: these things, all of a sudden, when she had to

732
00:28:08,034 --> 00:28:10,514
Speaker 2: stand for everything, and she had to be the example,

733
00:28:10,954 --> 00:28:14,754
Speaker 2: and everything she did was magnified in this huge way,

734
00:28:14,834 --> 00:28:17,154
Speaker 2: which is what happens when you've only got one person

735
00:28:17,194 --> 00:28:20,554
Speaker 2: on the playing field representing all these things. All of

736
00:28:20,554 --> 00:28:23,554
Speaker 2: a sudden, it becomes everything about her from the moment

737
00:28:23,554 --> 00:28:25,914
Speaker 2: she stepped on the stage or her song's hit number one,

738
00:28:26,194 --> 00:28:28,554
Speaker 2: everything about her was political in a way. Everything about

739
00:28:28,554 --> 00:28:31,074
Speaker 2: her was this huge statement, and I just think that

740
00:28:31,074 --> 00:28:34,594
Speaker 2: that feels like such a crushing thing that we, as

741
00:28:34,634 --> 00:28:37,114
Speaker 2: like a fandom and a society moved on quite quickly

742
00:28:37,154 --> 00:28:39,714
Speaker 2: from when things started coming out about her and when

743
00:28:39,754 --> 00:28:42,034
Speaker 2: she didn't suit this ideal of what we wanted her

744
00:28:42,034 --> 00:28:42,194
Speaker 2: to be.

745
00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:43,394
Speaker 4: And it's interesting that.

746
00:28:43,354 --> 00:28:45,434
Speaker 2: She talks to the fact that she says it was

747
00:28:45,474 --> 00:28:50,074
Speaker 2: never about being skinny, which sometimes I find when people

748
00:28:50,114 --> 00:28:52,434
Speaker 2: who have these very public talking about their bodies say

749
00:28:52,474 --> 00:28:55,634
Speaker 2: that can be hard because it's also like we never

750
00:28:55,674 --> 00:28:57,914
Speaker 2: allow people to speak freely, because I think if she

751
00:28:57,954 --> 00:29:01,834
Speaker 2: could speak completely freely with no caveats of people attacking

752
00:29:01,874 --> 00:29:03,874
Speaker 2: her for turning her back on the plus size community.

753
00:29:04,034 --> 00:29:06,434
Speaker 2: She could say like it was about losing weight yea,

754
00:29:06,554 --> 00:29:09,314
Speaker 2: And she does saying this piece that she knew realistically

755
00:29:09,354 --> 00:29:10,994
Speaker 2: she would never be like a thin woman. She's like,

756
00:29:11,034 --> 00:29:13,114
Speaker 2: that's not my body type, so I was never chasing that.

757
00:29:13,394 --> 00:29:16,794
Speaker 2: It's a much deeper situation than that. And she also

758
00:29:16,914 --> 00:29:20,194
Speaker 2: talks about the way that being shunned from the body

759
00:29:20,234 --> 00:29:24,034
Speaker 2: positive community and how that has kind of played out

760
00:29:24,074 --> 00:29:27,714
Speaker 2: in a really honest way, and saying that she was

761
00:29:27,754 --> 00:29:31,154
Speaker 2: never performative because it was just who she was being

762
00:29:31,194 --> 00:29:34,954
Speaker 2: on stage. And she also feels that because of the

763
00:29:35,034 --> 00:29:38,074
Speaker 2: lawsuit and because of the fact that she chose to

764
00:29:38,074 --> 00:29:41,474
Speaker 2: publicly talk about changing her body, that she lost everything

765
00:29:41,554 --> 00:29:44,434
Speaker 2: she was working for. And she's like, everything I had

766
00:29:44,434 --> 00:29:47,474
Speaker 2: done before higher black women who have larger bodies create

767
00:29:47,554 --> 00:29:50,674
Speaker 2: literal industries for plus sized dances and models and actresses,

768
00:29:51,034 --> 00:29:53,674
Speaker 2: was because I secretly. She now thinks that people think

769
00:29:53,714 --> 00:29:56,794
Speaker 2: that she secretly had hate for fat people. I liked

770
00:29:56,834 --> 00:29:59,514
Speaker 2: reading it because I thought it was she was talking

771
00:29:59,554 --> 00:30:02,954
Speaker 2: as honestly as she could being a famous person about

772
00:30:02,994 --> 00:30:05,794
Speaker 2: what had happened to her when the community of plus

773
00:30:05,834 --> 00:30:08,154
Speaker 2: size people kind of decided to disown her a little bit.

774
00:30:08,434 --> 00:30:10,394
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it really is one of those situations

775
00:30:10,394 --> 00:30:12,114
Speaker 5: where you're like, you're damned if you do your damn

776
00:30:12,194 --> 00:30:14,114
Speaker 5: if you don't, because if you don't do all these things,

777
00:30:14,154 --> 00:30:16,234
Speaker 5: people are like, well, you represent all these people. You

778
00:30:16,314 --> 00:30:18,834
Speaker 5: have this platform, have this opportunity, You need to be

779
00:30:19,074 --> 00:30:20,834
Speaker 5: giving it to other people, you need to be speaking

780
00:30:20,874 --> 00:30:22,434
Speaker 5: about it. But then when you do do it, you

781
00:30:22,474 --> 00:30:24,554
Speaker 5: do get accused of being performed in Yeah, and I

782
00:30:24,554 --> 00:30:26,634
Speaker 5: mean this applies to so many different things. Obviously not

783
00:30:26,674 --> 00:30:28,874
Speaker 5: just to do with weight or sizes or anything like that.

784
00:30:28,914 --> 00:30:30,914
Speaker 5: It happens when you're a person of color in an

785
00:30:30,994 --> 00:30:32,274
Speaker 5: area where there aren't many and.

786
00:30:32,194 --> 00:30:34,874
Speaker 3: Things like that. But I just think, how can we

787
00:30:34,914 --> 00:30:37,474
Speaker 3: put all that on one first. I mean, really, it

788
00:30:37,554 --> 00:30:38,234
Speaker 3: is really happen.

789
00:30:38,274 --> 00:30:39,834
Speaker 2: It's a lot and I thought it was really interesting

790
00:30:39,874 --> 00:30:42,634
Speaker 2: when she brought up Jamila Jimil who's an actress and

791
00:30:42,634 --> 00:30:45,474
Speaker 2: an activist, because she talks out the fact that from

792
00:30:45,514 --> 00:30:47,874
Speaker 2: Lizzo's point of view, she was like, I don't want

793
00:30:47,914 --> 00:30:49,994
Speaker 2: to hide the fact that I'm trying to change my body,

794
00:30:49,994 --> 00:30:51,794
Speaker 2: and I know it's going to be a huge talking point,

795
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:53,514
Speaker 2: So I'm just going to put all the photos out there.

796
00:30:53,554 --> 00:30:55,674
Speaker 2: I'm going to show everyone, and then she said, so

797
00:30:55,754 --> 00:30:58,474
Speaker 2: she did that, and then she was scrolling through social

798
00:30:58,474 --> 00:31:01,274
Speaker 2: media and she saw these posts from Jamila Jamil who

799
00:31:01,634 --> 00:31:05,354
Speaker 2: was talking about how damaging this big weight loss push

800
00:31:05,474 --> 00:31:08,674
Speaker 2: online was being, particularly from celebrities, and then she said

801
00:31:08,714 --> 00:31:11,914
Speaker 2: she saw this line from Jamila that really hit her

802
00:31:11,994 --> 00:31:14,394
Speaker 2: so hard, and it was something like, I can't believe

803
00:31:14,394 --> 00:31:17,514
Speaker 2: people are out there actually posting before and after photos.

804
00:31:17,834 --> 00:31:19,074
Speaker 4: And that was when Lizzo.

805
00:31:18,954 --> 00:31:21,514
Speaker 2: Was like, she said, that hit her so hard because

806
00:31:21,634 --> 00:31:23,954
Speaker 2: she had done that as her way of trying to

807
00:31:23,954 --> 00:31:26,514
Speaker 2: be transparent. And she talks in the substack about the

808
00:31:26,514 --> 00:31:28,794
Speaker 2: fact that she and Jamila have a really good relationship

809
00:31:28,794 --> 00:31:31,394
Speaker 2: and she respects her a lot, and she says something

810
00:31:31,394 --> 00:31:33,714
Speaker 2: which I also think is true, is like about Jamila,

811
00:31:33,794 --> 00:31:37,114
Speaker 2: Jamila is like, she's not just out there making the statements.

812
00:31:37,154 --> 00:31:38,794
Speaker 2: I feel like she's in the weeds doing the worst

813
00:31:38,834 --> 00:31:41,074
Speaker 2: a lot of the time in space. And so she's like,

814
00:31:41,114 --> 00:31:43,194
Speaker 2: I really respect her and we're good. But that hit

815
00:31:43,234 --> 00:31:45,594
Speaker 2: me so hard to see someone I admire so much

816
00:31:46,234 --> 00:31:49,154
Speaker 2: pointing out that something I had done would be so

817
00:31:49,234 --> 00:31:50,274
Speaker 2: harmful to people.

818
00:31:50,674 --> 00:31:52,754
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that is something that a few people

819
00:31:52,754 --> 00:31:54,954
Speaker 5: have commented on the before and after photos. There was

820
00:31:54,994 --> 00:31:58,434
Speaker 5: actually a comment on her substacker, really emotional, quite long

821
00:31:58,474 --> 00:31:59,834
Speaker 5: comment talking.

822
00:31:59,514 --> 00:32:00,314
Speaker 3: About how well.

823
00:32:00,354 --> 00:32:03,394
Speaker 5: She basically says, given the opportunity to escape fatness, you

824
00:32:03,514 --> 00:32:06,594
Speaker 5: took it. It's so heartbreaking to realize that nobody wants

825
00:32:06,634 --> 00:32:08,554
Speaker 5: to look like me. And she sort of says, I

826
00:32:08,554 --> 00:32:11,674
Speaker 5: don't think it's your responsibility to stay how you were

827
00:32:11,674 --> 00:32:15,074
Speaker 5: before for me, but I think publicizing your intentional weight

828
00:32:15,114 --> 00:32:17,154
Speaker 5: loss feels like a betrayal to a lot of us,

829
00:32:17,474 --> 00:32:19,514
Speaker 5: And she says it is about looks, or you wouldn't

830
00:32:19,514 --> 00:32:21,954
Speaker 5: be posting before and after photos, which I don't necessarily

831
00:32:21,954 --> 00:32:23,474
Speaker 5: think is true. I think you can post before and

832
00:32:23,514 --> 00:32:25,234
Speaker 5: after photos, as you know, you were in a different

833
00:32:25,274 --> 00:32:27,074
Speaker 5: mental place, we're in a different place in life. But

834
00:32:27,194 --> 00:32:29,914
Speaker 5: there has been a very visceral reaction to people to

835
00:32:29,994 --> 00:32:32,474
Speaker 5: the whole before and after photos aspect of it, because

836
00:32:32,514 --> 00:32:35,274
Speaker 5: I guess a lot of people will remember growing up

837
00:32:35,274 --> 00:32:36,834
Speaker 5: and you do look at a lot of before and

838
00:32:36,874 --> 00:32:40,154
Speaker 5: after photos with you know, regards to different weight loss solutions,

839
00:32:40,194 --> 00:32:41,834
Speaker 5: and I think it can be triggering for a lot

840
00:32:41,834 --> 00:32:44,194
Speaker 5: of people. Yeah, and so I guess to see somebody

841
00:32:44,194 --> 00:32:47,074
Speaker 5: that you've put on this pedestal as not being in

842
00:32:47,114 --> 00:32:49,754
Speaker 5: that sort of space. To see that is a little

843
00:32:49,754 --> 00:32:52,074
Speaker 5: bit confronting and a bit like, oh okay, like we've

844
00:32:52,114 --> 00:32:52,874
Speaker 5: lost one of us.

845
00:32:52,954 --> 00:32:55,474
Speaker 3: The kind of mentality, not that I'm saying it should be, well.

846
00:32:55,394 --> 00:32:57,474
Speaker 2: Yeah, it shouldn't be. But again, it's that rule of one.

847
00:32:57,514 --> 00:33:00,554
Speaker 2: When there's only one person who's representing everything, when you

848
00:33:00,634 --> 00:33:03,594
Speaker 2: lose them, it hits you so much harder. Like that's

849
00:33:03,634 --> 00:33:06,754
Speaker 2: like when we saw Adele changing her body. It's not her,

850
00:33:07,234 --> 00:33:09,074
Speaker 2: but it hits you because you're like I looked at

851
00:33:09,074 --> 00:33:10,914
Speaker 2: that and I used to think like, oh, you can

852
00:33:10,994 --> 00:33:12,994
Speaker 2: have any type of body up on a stage being

853
00:33:13,354 --> 00:33:16,794
Speaker 2: the most loved singer in the world. And I think,

854
00:33:16,874 --> 00:33:18,914
Speaker 2: like I did feel that a little bit with Liz ocause,

855
00:33:18,994 --> 00:33:20,634
Speaker 2: you know, you used to watch clips of her and

856
00:33:20,754 --> 00:33:23,674
Speaker 2: songs and see her like on that stage performing for

857
00:33:23,794 --> 00:33:27,234
Speaker 2: three hours, and the physical strength that takes to dance

858
00:33:27,274 --> 00:33:30,034
Speaker 2: and seeing on stage at that level like she was

859
00:33:30,074 --> 00:33:32,954
Speaker 2: doing is something that like athletes would aspire to. And

860
00:33:32,994 --> 00:33:34,914
Speaker 2: you see that and you're like, this is going to change.

861
00:33:34,954 --> 00:33:36,754
Speaker 2: Like I remember like watching her on stage and having

862
00:33:36,754 --> 00:33:38,994
Speaker 2: this thought of like this is going to change everything,

863
00:33:39,394 --> 00:33:41,994
Speaker 2: and then it hasn't, and we've regressed so much, which

864
00:33:42,034 --> 00:33:43,714
Speaker 2: is what she's saying in the sub stect We've regressed

865
00:33:43,754 --> 00:33:47,594
Speaker 2: so much that it now feels like this sad thing

866
00:33:47,634 --> 00:33:50,834
Speaker 2: instead of a positive thing. And I think that's okay

867
00:33:50,914 --> 00:33:53,754
Speaker 2: sometimes to feel a sense of betrayal. I definitely do

868
00:33:54,234 --> 00:33:56,354
Speaker 2: as someone who's a plus sized woman and who writes

869
00:33:56,354 --> 00:33:57,954
Speaker 2: a lot about this and is like very active in

870
00:33:57,954 --> 00:34:00,154
Speaker 2: this space, I think it's okay to feel a sense

871
00:34:00,154 --> 00:34:03,754
Speaker 2: of betrayal not from the person but from the industry

872
00:34:03,954 --> 00:34:07,594
Speaker 2: and like also the fans who subconsciously demand this. But

873
00:34:07,634 --> 00:34:09,794
Speaker 2: I think that I almost thought a bigger sense of

874
00:34:09,834 --> 00:34:13,553
Speaker 2: portrayal when Serena Williams said that she was on weight

875
00:34:13,594 --> 00:34:16,834
Speaker 2: loss medication. Again not about her personally, and I know

876
00:34:16,874 --> 00:34:19,514
Speaker 2: that she's at the height of her career and still

877
00:34:19,794 --> 00:34:22,794
Speaker 2: got so much negative feedback about her body, and that

878
00:34:22,954 --> 00:34:25,554
Speaker 2: is a horrible thing to have decades of and eventually

879
00:34:25,634 --> 00:34:27,474
Speaker 2: that would take a toll on you. But I was

880
00:34:27,514 --> 00:34:30,634
Speaker 2: a bit like, this is the best athlete in the world,

881
00:34:30,674 --> 00:34:33,954
Speaker 2: Like this is the peak of physical perfection and strength,

882
00:34:34,194 --> 00:34:36,914
Speaker 2: and her body does things that other human bodies would

883
00:34:36,954 --> 00:34:38,954
Speaker 2: never be able to do, Like that is like the

884
00:34:38,994 --> 00:34:42,474
Speaker 2: pinnacle of success. And it still wasn't enough because she

885
00:34:42,594 --> 00:34:45,674
Speaker 2: wasn't small enough. Yeah, and now that she's getting smaller,

886
00:34:45,914 --> 00:34:48,234
Speaker 2: people are just like, there's there's a celebration over her

887
00:34:48,274 --> 00:34:50,874
Speaker 2: body finally being correct, And I'm like, it wasn't correct

888
00:34:50,914 --> 00:34:53,834
Speaker 2: when she was the greatest athlete in the world, Like

889
00:34:53,874 --> 00:34:55,754
Speaker 2: her body wasn't correct when she's the best singer in

890
00:34:55,754 --> 00:34:57,953
Speaker 2: the world. Like it just it just is like this

891
00:34:58,074 --> 00:35:00,154
Speaker 2: thing that hits you over the head, like it will

892
00:35:00,274 --> 00:35:02,914
Speaker 2: never matter what you do, what you say, what you achieve,

893
00:35:02,954 --> 00:35:05,754
Speaker 2: what your talent is, unless your body looks a certain way.

894
00:35:05,794 --> 00:35:07,514
Speaker 2: And I think that's what she's saying in this sub stack.

895
00:35:07,834 --> 00:35:09,954
Speaker 5: Yeah, And she's talked a lot about how, you know,

896
00:35:10,034 --> 00:35:13,194
Speaker 5: the body positivity community is sort of what gave her

897
00:35:13,234 --> 00:35:15,754
Speaker 5: her start and how she really cemented herself in this

898
00:35:15,794 --> 00:35:16,994
Speaker 5: whole celebrity world.

899
00:35:17,314 --> 00:35:19,354
Speaker 3: But now it's just changed so much.

900
00:35:19,394 --> 00:35:22,954
Speaker 5: And she says, you know, once something becomes for everyone,

901
00:35:23,234 --> 00:35:23,993
Speaker 5: the people.

902
00:35:23,714 --> 00:35:26,434
Speaker 3: That it was originally created for are edged.

903
00:35:26,194 --> 00:35:29,194
Speaker 2: Out, oh one hundred percent. And I agree with her

904
00:35:29,434 --> 00:35:31,794
Speaker 2: so much, And I love that she wrote that in

905
00:35:31,794 --> 00:35:33,514
Speaker 2: a sub stack. I almost wish she would like shout

906
00:35:33,514 --> 00:35:36,473
Speaker 2: it from the rooftops louder, but I know she really can't.

907
00:35:36,514 --> 00:35:38,514
Speaker 2: It's even brave of her to say, this is like

908
00:35:38,874 --> 00:35:42,994
Speaker 2: the body positive movement came in, and it wasn't supposed

909
00:35:43,034 --> 00:35:45,034
Speaker 2: to be about even though this is obviously the right

910
00:35:45,074 --> 00:35:47,073
Speaker 2: thing to say. It wasn't supposed to be about everybody matters,

911
00:35:47,114 --> 00:35:49,514
Speaker 2: because obviously it does. It was meant to be about

912
00:35:49,954 --> 00:35:53,354
Speaker 2: there is a group of marginalized people who don't get

913
00:35:53,394 --> 00:35:56,674
Speaker 2: to be on these stages, who don't have access to clothing,

914
00:35:56,674 --> 00:35:59,914
Speaker 2: who don't have access to healthcare, who don't get opportunities,

915
00:36:00,194 --> 00:36:02,274
Speaker 2: and let's find a way to bring them for it.

916
00:36:02,514 --> 00:36:06,154
Speaker 2: And over time, and like because of companies picking it

917
00:36:06,234 --> 00:36:09,274
Speaker 2: up and trying to monetize it or Instagram algorithms, it

918
00:36:09,354 --> 00:36:12,594
Speaker 2: got watered down to everything matters, and so that now

919
00:36:12,674 --> 00:36:14,754
Speaker 2: nothing matters. And she says that in the sub stack,

920
00:36:14,834 --> 00:36:16,433
Speaker 2: because she says, I think this is like one of

921
00:36:16,434 --> 00:36:17,794
Speaker 2: the best lines from what she said.

922
00:36:18,154 --> 00:36:18,553
Speaker 4: She said.

923
00:36:18,594 --> 00:36:21,074
Speaker 2: So here we are halfway through the decade where extended

924
00:36:21,074 --> 00:36:24,594
Speaker 2: sizes are being magically erased from websites. Plus size models

925
00:36:24,594 --> 00:36:26,754
Speaker 2: are no longer getting booked for modeling gigs, and all

926
00:36:26,794 --> 00:36:28,674
Speaker 2: of our big girls are not so big anymore.

927
00:36:29,114 --> 00:36:29,993
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's true.

928
00:36:30,034 --> 00:36:32,274
Speaker 5: Thing, it is true in if you went onto Instagram

929
00:36:32,274 --> 00:36:34,954
Speaker 5: now and clicked on a body positivity hashtag, I guarantee

930
00:36:35,194 --> 00:36:38,274
Speaker 5: would be mostly people who are under a size sixteen.

931
00:36:38,074 --> 00:36:40,953
Speaker 2: Yeah, posting and saying like, you know, sometimes I feel

932
00:36:40,994 --> 00:36:43,554
Speaker 2: bad about myself and it's okay, and again you can

933
00:36:43,594 --> 00:36:47,034
Speaker 2: think that, but you feeling bad about yourself is as

934
00:36:47,114 --> 00:36:49,554
Speaker 2: a separate issue that deserves a lot of attention, but

935
00:36:49,594 --> 00:36:53,913
Speaker 2: it's very separate to the world saying you can't live here,

936
00:36:54,114 --> 00:36:56,274
Speaker 2: and you can't be here, and you can't work here,

937
00:36:56,314 --> 00:36:58,274
Speaker 2: and you can't have clothed you kind of medical care.

938
00:36:58,594 --> 00:37:01,434
Speaker 2: That is very different to someone internally saying to themselves,

939
00:37:01,554 --> 00:37:03,794
Speaker 2: which again is a huge issue and is so important,

940
00:37:04,154 --> 00:37:07,873
Speaker 2: but conflating the two across popc to the way we

941
00:37:07,914 --> 00:37:09,954
Speaker 2: did has been super, super damaging.

942
00:37:10,274 --> 00:37:12,674
Speaker 5: And the big difference there is what you think of

943
00:37:12,714 --> 00:37:15,634
Speaker 5: yourself versus what society thinks, so it's not being put

944
00:37:15,714 --> 00:37:18,194
Speaker 5: on you. And she talks about how, you know, being

945
00:37:18,394 --> 00:37:21,994
Speaker 5: a plus sized black woman in pop culture, the tropes

946
00:37:21,994 --> 00:37:24,034
Speaker 5: that she has had to come up against because it's

947
00:37:24,034 --> 00:37:26,433
Speaker 5: a bit of a double bind. Because she was like,

948
00:37:27,074 --> 00:37:30,554
Speaker 5: I needed to be overtly sexual when I'm performing. To

949
00:37:30,554 --> 00:37:33,954
Speaker 5: get away from this quote, unquote mammy trope, which is basically,

950
00:37:34,314 --> 00:37:36,834
Speaker 5: for anyone who doesn't know, it's a racist stereotype where

951
00:37:36,834 --> 00:37:39,873
Speaker 5: a black woman is sort of portrayed as like a

952
00:37:39,994 --> 00:37:43,554
Speaker 5: very loyal, nurturing care taker, almost asexual.

953
00:37:43,794 --> 00:37:46,913
Speaker 2: Yeah, and only exists to further the story of the

954
00:37:46,954 --> 00:37:48,714
Speaker 2: central white woman character pretty.

955
00:37:48,474 --> 00:37:50,314
Speaker 5: Much, yeah, all looking after like a white family or

956
00:37:50,394 --> 00:37:53,234
Speaker 5: the children in it. And she's like cheerful woman who's

957
00:37:53,234 --> 00:37:55,513
Speaker 5: like not portrayed in that sexy kind of way at all,

958
00:37:55,754 --> 00:37:57,874
Speaker 5: just sort of yeah, as you said, a side plot

959
00:37:57,914 --> 00:38:01,074
Speaker 5: to the white family's plot line, and she was like, well,

960
00:38:01,074 --> 00:38:03,634
Speaker 5: I was sick and tired of my identity being like that.

961
00:38:03,714 --> 00:38:06,074
Speaker 5: I had to actively work against those tropes by being

962
00:38:06,194 --> 00:38:07,953
Speaker 5: hyper sexual. But then on the flip side of that,

963
00:38:07,994 --> 00:38:11,634
Speaker 5: obviously you get backlash when you are you know, being quote.

964
00:38:11,394 --> 00:38:13,873
Speaker 3: Unquote too much or performative or things like that.

965
00:38:14,154 --> 00:38:16,834
Speaker 5: So those are just things that as someone in that

966
00:38:16,994 --> 00:38:19,794
Speaker 5: situation you do come up against, which is a whole

967
00:38:19,834 --> 00:38:23,554
Speaker 5: different ballgame to your own internal struggle your body age.

968
00:38:23,874 --> 00:38:25,914
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is such a true thing about the idea

969
00:38:25,914 --> 00:38:28,794
Speaker 2: of like having to be either hyper sexualized or like

970
00:38:28,834 --> 00:38:30,473
Speaker 2: feel like you have to dress yourself up a little

971
00:38:30,474 --> 00:38:32,473
Speaker 2: bit more, and like you hear that from plus size

972
00:38:32,474 --> 00:38:34,674
Speaker 2: women who work in the media space or performance or

973
00:38:34,714 --> 00:38:36,314
Speaker 2: actors that you always have to be that little kind

974
00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:39,234
Speaker 2: of cut above to cut through so that it doesn't

975
00:38:39,274 --> 00:38:41,634
Speaker 2: fall back on being about your body. I think this

976
00:38:41,994 --> 00:38:44,514
Speaker 2: stub sack be shared, but it hasn't blown up in

977
00:38:44,554 --> 00:38:46,473
Speaker 2: the way I think it should have blown up. Yeah,

978
00:38:46,474 --> 00:38:48,554
Speaker 2: and again, I'm not saying that every single thing Lizzo

979
00:38:48,674 --> 00:38:50,954
Speaker 2: does or says is right. That's not true of any person.

980
00:38:51,074 --> 00:38:54,274
Speaker 2: I think anytime she puts out something, it comes back

981
00:38:54,314 --> 00:38:56,194
Speaker 2: to that in a way that it wouldn't for someone

982
00:38:56,194 --> 00:38:58,514
Speaker 2: who wasn't a woman of color and pus size. The

983
00:38:58,554 --> 00:39:02,114
Speaker 2: idea that she's allowed to make mistakes but also speak

984
00:39:02,154 --> 00:39:04,634
Speaker 2: the truth and those two things can exist together. But

985
00:39:04,674 --> 00:39:06,114
Speaker 2: this hasn't born up the way it would have a

986
00:39:06,114 --> 00:39:08,354
Speaker 2: few years ago. And I think the really sad reality

987
00:39:08,354 --> 00:39:11,274
Speaker 2: of that is that media has moved past it, like

988
00:39:11,314 --> 00:39:14,474
Speaker 2: most mainstream media and women's media have moved past body

989
00:39:14,474 --> 00:39:19,234
Speaker 2: positivity and fat acceptance because it feels out of favor now.

990
00:39:19,274 --> 00:39:21,194
Speaker 2: It feels like it's not like the glamorous thing to

991
00:39:21,194 --> 00:39:23,554
Speaker 2: talk about, and I think everyone felt like they were

992
00:39:23,634 --> 00:39:26,074
Speaker 2: jumping on a bandwagon a few years ago. But now

993
00:39:26,154 --> 00:39:28,513
Speaker 2: like we see Runway, like she's saying in here when

994
00:39:28,514 --> 00:39:31,554
Speaker 2: she actually says like plus size clothes are disappearing from websites,

995
00:39:31,554 --> 00:39:33,913
Speaker 2: that's one hundred percent of true fact if you're looking

996
00:39:33,954 --> 00:39:37,393
Speaker 2: for them, they've like lines are disappearing. Media outlets don't

997
00:39:37,394 --> 00:39:39,354
Speaker 2: put plus sized women at the forefront the way that

998
00:39:39,394 --> 00:39:41,674
Speaker 2: were sort of trying to a few years ago. You

999
00:39:41,714 --> 00:39:43,913
Speaker 2: look at like movies and TV shows that are coming out,

1000
00:39:43,954 --> 00:39:47,274
Speaker 2: there's no body diversity runway shows. If you look at

1001
00:39:47,354 --> 00:39:49,234
Speaker 2: like all the singers who are coming up through the ranks,

1002
00:39:49,314 --> 00:39:51,873
Speaker 2: is like our new pop stars, no body diversity there.

1003
00:39:51,914 --> 00:39:53,873
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's like we're like, oh, we tried

1004
00:39:53,874 --> 00:39:55,594
Speaker 2: it for a second, and now it's gone. And I

1005
00:39:55,634 --> 00:39:58,034
Speaker 2: think what Lizzo writes in the substack is that she

1006
00:39:58,074 --> 00:39:59,874
Speaker 2: feels like she was a product of that. She feels

1007
00:39:59,874 --> 00:40:02,393
Speaker 2: like the plus sized community lifted her up, and then

1008
00:40:02,394 --> 00:40:05,754
Speaker 2: the world by extension lifted her up, and now she

1009
00:40:05,834 --> 00:40:08,314
Speaker 2: feels like she's been forgotten because she was part of

1010
00:40:08,354 --> 00:40:10,393
Speaker 2: a trend. And I know some people will say like,

1011
00:40:10,394 --> 00:40:12,154
Speaker 2: oh no, no, we don't like her now because of the

1012
00:40:12,194 --> 00:40:15,394
Speaker 2: allegations or because she changed her body and all those things,

1013
00:40:15,434 --> 00:40:17,794
Speaker 2: and that's fair, but I don't think that's the reason

1014
00:40:17,914 --> 00:40:20,154
Speaker 2: that people don't listen to her music as much anymore.

1015
00:40:20,194 --> 00:40:22,274
Speaker 2: Like she released new music recently, I think it went okay,

1016
00:40:22,314 --> 00:40:24,074
Speaker 2: but it didn't block the way it would have for

1017
00:40:24,154 --> 00:40:26,154
Speaker 2: someone who was the biggest pop star in the world.

1018
00:40:26,274 --> 00:40:28,754
Speaker 5: She was so like yeah everywhere for a while there,

1019
00:40:28,754 --> 00:40:30,794
Speaker 5: and it just doesn't feel that way now. And for

1020
00:40:30,874 --> 00:40:32,834
Speaker 5: her it probably felt like at the time, You're part

1021
00:40:32,874 --> 00:40:35,194
Speaker 5: of this really big movement and things are actually changing.

1022
00:40:35,234 --> 00:40:36,274
Speaker 3: And now writing that.

1023
00:40:36,314 --> 00:40:38,074
Speaker 5: And reading that, I feel like she probably looks back

1024
00:40:38,074 --> 00:40:39,554
Speaker 5: on it thinking maybe it was just a phase.

1025
00:40:39,754 --> 00:40:41,433
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, she says in the sub stack, And I

1026
00:40:41,434 --> 00:40:43,794
Speaker 2: think she takes responsibility, but in a way that I

1027
00:40:43,834 --> 00:40:46,834
Speaker 2: found not satisfying of taking responsibility, but in a way

1028
00:40:46,874 --> 00:40:49,354
Speaker 2: of like a sadness to it, because she writes that

1029
00:40:49,714 --> 00:40:51,913
Speaker 2: she wants to win back the plus sized community because

1030
00:40:51,914 --> 00:40:54,553
Speaker 2: they're her people. And I think she's acknowledging that she's

1031
00:40:54,594 --> 00:40:57,234
Speaker 2: made some mistakes. Obviously she has, and there's things that

1032
00:40:57,274 --> 00:40:59,154
Speaker 2: she could do better, like we all could. But I

1033
00:40:59,194 --> 00:41:02,034
Speaker 2: also think that idea of her thinking that she was

1034
00:41:02,074 --> 00:41:04,194
Speaker 2: just a product of this moment and it's over and

1035
00:41:04,234 --> 00:41:06,994
Speaker 2: she could maybe win back one small group of the

1036
00:41:07,114 --> 00:41:09,314
Speaker 2: plast size community. But it's almost like in this subject,

1037
00:41:09,354 --> 00:41:13,114
Speaker 2: there's this acceptance that she'll never win mainstream fans back

1038
00:41:13,594 --> 00:41:14,994
Speaker 2: because such a sad.

1039
00:41:15,154 --> 00:41:17,354
Speaker 5: Yeah, but then I see where she's coming from with

1040
00:41:17,434 --> 00:41:18,554
Speaker 5: it. It does feel quite.

1041
00:41:18,474 --> 00:41:20,993
Speaker 2: Real exactly, So I think, like, yeah, I think it's

1042
00:41:21,154 --> 00:41:22,953
Speaker 2: like a lot of sadness there, but there's also like

1043
00:41:22,954 --> 00:41:25,433
Speaker 2: that radical honesty that I really loved, and I think

1044
00:41:25,474 --> 00:41:27,034
Speaker 2: that the thing to take away from it, and we'll

1045
00:41:27,074 --> 00:41:29,194
Speaker 2: lincointernation show notes so you can read it in full,

1046
00:41:29,194 --> 00:41:31,433
Speaker 2: because it's really worth reading the whole thing. I think

1047
00:41:31,434 --> 00:41:33,234
Speaker 2: that there is like almost like a battle cry in

1048
00:41:33,234 --> 00:41:36,033
Speaker 2: there of like this is happening, Like we're erasing these

1049
00:41:36,034 --> 00:41:37,634
Speaker 2: people and these things, and what are we going to

1050
00:41:37,714 --> 00:41:39,754
Speaker 2: do about it? So I don't think she was writing

1051
00:41:39,754 --> 00:41:41,993
Speaker 2: it to be like feel bad for me or this

1052
00:41:42,034 --> 00:41:43,873
Speaker 2: is an excuse. She was kind of saying like, hey,

1053
00:41:43,914 --> 00:41:46,593
Speaker 2: this huge thing is happening, like we're erasing this whole

1054
00:41:46,594 --> 00:41:50,074
Speaker 2: group of people from different parts of life essentially, and

1055
00:41:50,114 --> 00:41:51,234
Speaker 2: what are we going to do about it?

1056
00:41:51,274 --> 00:41:52,794
Speaker 4: And I feel like that should be the takeaway.

1057
00:41:53,114 --> 00:41:54,594
Speaker 5: And with the rise of a lot of these semi

1058
00:41:54,594 --> 00:41:57,074
Speaker 5: glue tide products that people are on that can assist

1059
00:41:57,074 --> 00:41:59,194
Speaker 5: you with weight loss, and just what we're seeing with

1060
00:41:59,234 --> 00:42:01,634
Speaker 5: the changes in Hollywood, Like we've spoken about it on

1061
00:42:01,674 --> 00:42:05,433
Speaker 5: the pod before, how the body representation seems to be

1062
00:42:05,514 --> 00:42:08,074
Speaker 5: regressing quite a bit in Hollywood and with that rise

1063
00:42:08,154 --> 00:42:10,154
Speaker 5: versem pic not really helping that. It is such a

1064
00:42:10,154 --> 00:42:12,033
Speaker 5: topical thing for her to come out and say this.

1065
00:42:12,034 --> 00:42:15,034
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, absolutely so yeah, such a good substack. We'll

1066
00:42:15,074 --> 00:42:17,154
Speaker 2: link it in our show notes and I don't know

1067
00:42:17,194 --> 00:42:19,954
Speaker 2: if ph'll have any sort of a ripple effect or change,

1068
00:42:19,994 --> 00:42:20,754
Speaker 2: but I hope it does.

1069
00:42:21,434 --> 00:42:24,074
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today. Guys.

1070
00:42:24,194 --> 00:42:26,234
Speaker 5: If anything came up for you in this episode, and

1071
00:42:26,274 --> 00:42:29,914
Speaker 5: if you need support, please find the Butterfly Foundation national

1072
00:42:29,954 --> 00:42:32,674
Speaker 5: support line in our show notes. All the details are there.

1073
00:42:33,034 --> 00:42:35,194
Speaker 5: And if you enjoyed this episode and you got something

1074
00:42:35,194 --> 00:42:36,994
Speaker 5: out of it, then the best way you can support

1075
00:42:37,074 --> 00:42:39,274
Speaker 5: us is to give us a five star rating. Wherever

1076
00:42:39,314 --> 00:42:41,154
Speaker 5: you're listening to this, it goes a long way in

1077
00:42:41,274 --> 00:42:43,234
Speaker 5: helping us give you the best content.

1078
00:42:43,714 --> 00:42:45,514
Speaker 3: And of course we've got your weekend viewing.

1079
00:42:45,394 --> 00:42:48,874
Speaker 5: Sorted, so tune in tomorrow six am for weekend watch

1080
00:42:48,994 --> 00:42:51,274
Speaker 5: and of course your usual spill episode at three, it's

1081
00:42:51,314 --> 00:42:53,754
Speaker 5: a really special one. M is back in the chair

1082
00:42:53,954 --> 00:42:57,114
Speaker 5: and it's the brutally honest review of Wicked for Good,

1083
00:42:57,394 --> 00:43:00,474
Speaker 5: so you don't want to miss that. It is really funny, insightful,

1084
00:43:00,554 --> 00:43:02,554
Speaker 5: everything that you could want out of a review. This

1085
00:43:02,634 --> 00:43:05,274
Speaker 5: pill is produced by Georgie Page with sound production by

1086
00:43:05,274 --> 00:43:06,034
Speaker 5: Scott Stohnick.

1087
00:43:06,114 --> 00:43:07,074
Speaker 3: And we will see you next time.

1088
00:43:07,474 --> 00:43:20,433
Speaker 2: Bye bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.

1089
00:43:20,474 --> 00:43:23,474
Speaker 2: We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigol people of

1090
00:43:23,514 --> 00:43:26,914
Speaker 2: the Oronation. We pay our respects to their elders past

1091
00:43:26,954 --> 00:43:29,834
Speaker 2: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and

1092
00:43:29,914 --> 00:43:31,354
Speaker 2: Torres Strait Islander cultures.