1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,254
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

2
00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

3
00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:19,054
Speaker 1: is recorded on.

4
00:00:22,054 --> 00:00:25,294
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily

5
00:00:25,334 --> 00:00:29,374
Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. We've been hearing about the social

6
00:00:29,374 --> 00:00:33,214
Speaker 2: media band for under sixteens for a while now, Parents

7
00:00:33,254 --> 00:00:35,814
Speaker 2: and tech giants alike told to get their affairs in

8
00:00:35,934 --> 00:00:39,094
Speaker 2: order as kids are booted from platforms like TikTok and

9
00:00:39,134 --> 00:00:43,894
Speaker 2: Snapchat come December tenth. Many questions remained about how exactly

10
00:00:44,014 --> 00:00:46,974
Speaker 2: this is going to work. This week we finally get

11
00:00:47,014 --> 00:00:52,494
Speaker 2: some more answers, putting the government's agenda into clearer focus. Plus,

12
00:00:52,614 --> 00:00:55,774
Speaker 2: how woo woo are you? Are you the one pulling

13
00:00:55,814 --> 00:00:58,694
Speaker 2: tarot cards in the corner at a party. Maybe you're

14
00:00:58,734 --> 00:01:02,374
Speaker 2: manifesting in your journal. Perhaps you've gone all in on

15
00:01:02,614 --> 00:01:05,894
Speaker 2: saging away the bad spirits in your apartment. There's been

16
00:01:05,934 --> 00:01:09,094
Speaker 2: a rise in spiritual practices, But is this just our

17
00:01:09,214 --> 00:01:12,414
Speaker 2: very twenty twenty five response to coping with everything the

18
00:01:12,494 --> 00:01:15,094
Speaker 2: year has thrown at us so far? Before we get there,

19
00:01:15,134 --> 00:01:17,254
Speaker 2: he is Claire Murphy with the latest from the Quicking

20
00:01:17,254 --> 00:01:20,174
Speaker 2: News room for Wednesday, September seventeen.

21
00:01:20,134 --> 00:01:23,694
Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi says the defense treaty

22
00:01:23,734 --> 00:01:26,494
Speaker 1: with Papua New Guinea will bring the relationship with Australia's

23
00:01:26,534 --> 00:01:30,294
Speaker 1: closest neighbor even closer. Albernizi is in Port Moresby. As

24
00:01:30,334 --> 00:01:34,574
Speaker 1: PNG marked its fiftieth anniversary of independence, Australia became the

25
00:01:34,614 --> 00:01:37,534
Speaker 1: colonial administrator of Papua, the southern half of what is

26
00:01:37,574 --> 00:01:40,814
Speaker 1: now Papua New Guinea in nineteen oh six. The western

27
00:01:40,854 --> 00:01:43,054
Speaker 1: part of New Guinea was controlled by the Dutch, while

28
00:01:43,054 --> 00:01:45,214
Speaker 1: the western part was fought over by Britain and the

29
00:01:45,254 --> 00:01:48,774
Speaker 1: Germans in the late eighteen hundreds. Australian troops occupied the

30
00:01:48,814 --> 00:01:51,534
Speaker 1: region during World War II to stop it being used

31
00:01:51,574 --> 00:01:54,334
Speaker 1: as a German naval base. Following the war, the UN

32
00:01:54,374 --> 00:01:57,694
Speaker 1: mandated the German New Guinea also come under Australian rule.

33
00:01:57,974 --> 00:02:00,654
Speaker 1: In nineteen forty nine, the Pupua and New Guinea Act

34
00:02:00,654 --> 00:02:04,294
Speaker 1: brought the two territories together, and by November nineteen seventy three,

35
00:02:04,334 --> 00:02:06,694
Speaker 1: Papua New Guinea had its own government, and on the

36
00:02:06,734 --> 00:02:11,254
Speaker 1: sixteenth of September nineteen seventy five was independence from Australia.

37
00:02:11,614 --> 00:02:14,894
Speaker 1: The anniversary is set to coincide with Australia and PNG

38
00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:18,414
Speaker 1: agreeing to the new landmark security agreement, named the Puck

39
00:02:18,454 --> 00:02:22,054
Speaker 1: Puck Treaty after the pigeon word for crocodile, elevating Papua

40
00:02:22,094 --> 00:02:24,454
Speaker 1: New Guinea to the treaty level of the United States

41
00:02:24,454 --> 00:02:27,614
Speaker 1: and New Zealand. It will integrate forces on either side

42
00:02:27,614 --> 00:02:30,494
Speaker 1: of the Torres Strait and could trigger mutual support in

43
00:02:30,574 --> 00:02:33,374
Speaker 1: cases of conflict. It will also enable P and G

44
00:02:33,534 --> 00:02:36,454
Speaker 1: nationals to serve in Australia's Defense force with the same

45
00:02:36,494 --> 00:02:39,414
Speaker 1: pay as other members, and start a pathway to citizenship.

46
00:02:39,854 --> 00:02:42,814
Speaker 1: Some details are yet to be revealed, including whether both

47
00:02:42,934 --> 00:02:45,454
Speaker 1: nations would be compelled to consult each other if they

48
00:02:45,494 --> 00:02:49,214
Speaker 1: face a security threat, similar to NATO's Article four clause,

49
00:02:49,534 --> 00:02:52,534
Speaker 1: or whether it also includes an exclusivity clause which meant

50
00:02:52,534 --> 00:02:54,694
Speaker 1: P and G could not pursue similar deals with other

51
00:02:54,734 --> 00:02:57,654
Speaker 1: countries such as China. The P and G Cabinet met

52
00:02:57,694 --> 00:03:00,334
Speaker 1: on Monday night to give final approval, but didn't have

53
00:03:00,374 --> 00:03:03,414
Speaker 1: a quorum because some ministers are back in their constituencies

54
00:03:03,454 --> 00:03:07,614
Speaker 1: for the independence celebrations. For mister Albinizi expects his counterpart,

55
00:03:07,694 --> 00:03:11,014
Speaker 1: James Marapy, has sorted out quickly by ushering the process

56
00:03:11,014 --> 00:03:14,534
Speaker 1: through his cabinet, virtually praising the PNG Prime Minister for

57
00:03:14,574 --> 00:03:17,774
Speaker 1: showing great leadership and moving forward with Australia, saying the

58
00:03:17,814 --> 00:03:20,374
Speaker 1: relationship upgrade took place at his suggestion.

59
00:03:20,614 --> 00:03:24,294
Speaker 3: Australia and Papua New Guinea are the best of friends.

60
00:03:24,334 --> 00:03:28,814
Speaker 3: Today fifty years since the Australian flag was lowered and

61
00:03:28,894 --> 00:03:32,814
Speaker 3: the flag of Papua New Guinea raised. This is a

62
00:03:32,974 --> 00:03:37,734
Speaker 3: wonderful celebration here of a country that has diverse more

63
00:03:37,774 --> 00:03:43,134
Speaker 3: than a thousand tribes eight hundred languages here in PNG.

64
00:03:43,654 --> 00:03:46,974
Speaker 3: It's been a very important and significant day.

65
00:03:47,334 --> 00:03:50,614
Speaker 1: It's pg's first defense agreement with another nation and comes

66
00:03:50,654 --> 00:03:53,334
Speaker 1: as Australia is competing with China and other nations for

67
00:03:53,454 --> 00:03:57,214
Speaker 1: influence in the region after having difficulties over security agreements

68
00:03:57,214 --> 00:04:00,494
Speaker 1: with the Solomons and Vanuatu. Australia will also help p

69
00:04:00,574 --> 00:04:03,534
Speaker 1: ANDNG build a new ministerial wing onto its parliament as

70
00:04:03,574 --> 00:04:06,214
Speaker 1: a gift to mark fifty years of the nation's independence.

71
00:04:06,774 --> 00:04:09,494
Speaker 1: US President Donald Trump has indicated that he is set

72
00:04:09,614 --> 00:04:12,694
Speaker 1: to meet with Prime Minister Anthon Albanizi while scolding an

73
00:04:12,694 --> 00:04:15,694
Speaker 1: Australian journalist at the White House, Mister Trump told the

74
00:04:15,734 --> 00:04:18,774
Speaker 1: reporter for the ABC's Four Corners program, who was asking

75
00:04:18,814 --> 00:04:21,174
Speaker 1: him about whether it was appropriate for a president to

76
00:04:21,174 --> 00:04:24,134
Speaker 1: still be running so much business, Your leader is coming

77
00:04:24,174 --> 00:04:26,854
Speaker 1: over to see me very soon. Trump, not happy with

78
00:04:26,894 --> 00:04:29,094
Speaker 1: the line of questioning, told the journalist he was making

79
00:04:29,094 --> 00:04:31,654
Speaker 1: Australia look bad and that he would be telling mister

80
00:04:31,654 --> 00:04:34,414
Speaker 1: Albinizi when they met. Trump did not mention when that

81
00:04:34,454 --> 00:04:38,254
Speaker 1: meeting will take place. Former Australian radio host Allan Jones

82
00:04:38,294 --> 00:04:40,894
Speaker 1: has been charged with nine more counts of indecent assault,

83
00:04:40,974 --> 00:04:43,254
Speaker 1: bringing the total number of charges the eighty four year

84
00:04:43,294 --> 00:04:46,614
Speaker 1: old now faces to forty four. Jones was arrested in

85
00:04:46,654 --> 00:04:50,974
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four after police investigated allegations that Jones sexually

86
00:04:51,014 --> 00:04:54,254
Speaker 1: assaulted and touched eleven people between two thousand and one

87
00:04:54,334 --> 00:04:57,494
Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen. Jones telling the media waiting for him

88
00:04:57,534 --> 00:05:00,334
Speaker 1: outside court in December that he was not guilty and

89
00:05:00,374 --> 00:05:03,294
Speaker 1: would be defending all charges against him. The case is

90
00:05:03,374 --> 00:05:06,534
Speaker 1: due back in court on Thursday, and New York judge

91
00:05:06,534 --> 00:05:10,534
Speaker 1: has dismissed terrorism charges against Luigi Mangion over the December

92
00:05:10,574 --> 00:05:13,894
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four killing of health insurance executive Brian Thompson.

93
00:05:14,214 --> 00:05:16,694
Speaker 1: The twenty seven year old remains charged with murder in

94
00:05:16,734 --> 00:05:20,294
Speaker 1: the second degree. Justice Gregory Carrow saying that although there's

95
00:05:20,334 --> 00:05:23,174
Speaker 1: no doubt the killing was not ordinary street crime, New

96
00:05:23,254 --> 00:05:26,534
Speaker 1: York law does not consider something terrorism simply because it

97
00:05:26,614 --> 00:05:30,374
Speaker 1: was motivated by ideology. Mangioni has pleaded not guilty to

98
00:05:30,414 --> 00:05:33,694
Speaker 1: both state and federal charges of killing Thompson, the former

99
00:05:33,774 --> 00:05:37,614
Speaker 1: chief executive of United Health Group's insurance unit, United Healthcare,

100
00:05:37,814 --> 00:05:40,094
Speaker 1: who was gunned down while entering a hotel in New

101
00:05:40,174 --> 00:05:43,774
Speaker 1: York to attend a conference in December last year. Legendary

102
00:05:43,814 --> 00:05:46,854
Speaker 1: Hollywood actor and director Robert Redford has died at his

103
00:05:46,894 --> 00:05:50,254
Speaker 1: home in Utah, aged eighty nine. His publicist released a

104
00:05:50,254 --> 00:05:52,774
Speaker 1: statement saying he died at his home in the mountains

105
00:05:52,774 --> 00:05:56,174
Speaker 1: of Utah, the place he loved, surrounded by those he loved.

106
00:05:56,334 --> 00:05:59,294
Speaker 1: He'll be missed greatly and that the family requests privacy.

107
00:05:59,694 --> 00:06:02,214
Speaker 1: In a career that stretched across more than six decades,

108
00:06:02,254 --> 00:06:05,694
Speaker 1: Redford won two Academy Awards, including an Honorary prize in

109
00:06:05,694 --> 00:06:08,654
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, and three Golden Globes, including the

110
00:06:08,654 --> 00:06:11,694
Speaker 1: Cecil B. De Miller War Lifetime Achievement Honor in nineteen

111
00:06:11,774 --> 00:06:14,934
Speaker 1: ninety four. Redford was a Hollywood heart throb, acting in

112
00:06:15,054 --> 00:06:17,934
Speaker 1: romantic roles such as Out of Africa and Breaking Hearts

113
00:06:17,974 --> 00:06:20,854
Speaker 1: alongside Barbara streisand in The Way We Were. He got

114
00:06:20,854 --> 00:06:23,894
Speaker 1: political in The Candidate and All the President's Men and

115
00:06:23,934 --> 00:06:26,854
Speaker 1: skewered his golden boy image and roles like the alcoholic

116
00:06:26,894 --> 00:06:29,734
Speaker 1: ex rodeo champ in The Electric Horseman and the middle

117
00:06:29,774 --> 00:06:33,214
Speaker 1: aged billionaire who offers to buy Woody Harrelson's character's wife

118
00:06:33,254 --> 00:06:36,534
Speaker 1: played by Demi Moore in Indecent Proposal for One Night

119
00:06:36,614 --> 00:06:39,094
Speaker 1: for one Million dollars. But he's best known for his

120
00:06:39,254 --> 00:06:43,174
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine Western romp alongside Paul Newman, Butch Cassidy

121
00:06:43,254 --> 00:06:45,694
Speaker 1: and The Sundance Kid, the movie lending its name to

122
00:06:45,734 --> 00:06:48,334
Speaker 1: Redford Sundance Institute and Film Festival.

123
00:06:48,574 --> 00:06:51,694
Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, some more clarity on the hard and

124
00:06:51,774 --> 00:07:00,934
Speaker 2: fast rules ahead of the teen social media band. We're

125
00:07:00,974 --> 00:07:03,534
Speaker 2: just eighty five days away from the World for social

126
00:07:03,574 --> 00:07:08,334
Speaker 2: Media band for kids under sixteen. After many many questions

127
00:07:08,374 --> 00:07:10,894
Speaker 2: about just how exactly this is going to work, the

128
00:07:10,934 --> 00:07:14,614
Speaker 2: Albanezi government has dropped its long awaited guidelines for social

129
00:07:14,654 --> 00:07:19,014
Speaker 2: media platforms like TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram ahead of December's

130
00:07:19,054 --> 00:07:22,214
Speaker 2: van So, as we know, from December ten, tech giants

131
00:07:22,254 --> 00:07:26,134
Speaker 2: will be required to detect, remove, and prevent underage accounts

132
00:07:26,134 --> 00:07:29,294
Speaker 2: on their platforms or risk up to fines of forty

133
00:07:29,414 --> 00:07:33,134
Speaker 2: nine point five million dollars. Platforms have to show they're

134
00:07:33,214 --> 00:07:36,334
Speaker 2: using reasonable steps to keep kids out, but there's no

135
00:07:36,454 --> 00:07:39,934
Speaker 2: hard quota on account removals, and they can choose how

136
00:07:40,014 --> 00:07:42,854
Speaker 2: they screen for eight That could be anything from AI

137
00:07:42,934 --> 00:07:47,414
Speaker 2: facial analysis to behavioral monitoring. It's really just Stella's choice.

138
00:07:48,494 --> 00:07:51,014
Speaker 2: But if you're one of the unlucky ones over sixteen

139
00:07:51,054 --> 00:07:53,774
Speaker 2: who've had their accounts suspended, companies must go out of

140
00:07:53,814 --> 00:07:56,574
Speaker 2: their way to allow users to review the decision and

141
00:07:56,734 --> 00:08:00,294
Speaker 2: have it a turned E Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant

142
00:08:00,334 --> 00:08:02,934
Speaker 2: has a warning for parents too. She says there's no

143
00:08:03,014 --> 00:08:06,934
Speaker 2: magic wand some kids will slip through the cracks. While

144
00:08:06,934 --> 00:08:09,894
Speaker 2: the online watchdog won't investigate every single time hip off

145
00:08:09,974 --> 00:08:12,774
Speaker 2: or complaint, it does want families to report when they

146
00:08:12,774 --> 00:08:16,694
Speaker 2: see under sixteens still using these platforms, helping refine the

147
00:08:16,734 --> 00:08:21,494
Speaker 2: system as it rolls out, The government says social media

148
00:08:21,494 --> 00:08:25,614
Speaker 2: platforms have had plenty of time to prepare and insists

149
00:08:25,654 --> 00:08:30,694
Speaker 2: this is putting user safety and privacy first. Globally, other

150
00:08:30,734 --> 00:08:34,574
Speaker 2: countries are following Australia's lead. France, Denmark and Spain are

151
00:08:34,614 --> 00:08:37,774
Speaker 2: all pushing for similar bands for tweens and teens, but

152
00:08:37,974 --> 00:08:41,414
Speaker 2: how enforcement will look and whether real safety follows remains

153
00:08:41,454 --> 00:08:44,574
Speaker 2: the big test. So the big picture of the social

154
00:08:44,614 --> 00:08:47,574
Speaker 2: media ban is coming more into focus, but both the

155
00:08:47,574 --> 00:08:51,454
Speaker 2: Communications Minister Annika Wells and E Safety Commissioner admit there's

156
00:08:51,494 --> 00:08:54,934
Speaker 2: still more work to be done. Ivan Grant is off

157
00:08:54,934 --> 00:08:58,294
Speaker 2: to Silicon Valley next week, where she'll meet with Apple, Discord,

158
00:08:58,334 --> 00:09:02,174
Speaker 2: OpenAI and other companies to discuss the ban rollout, while

159
00:09:02,214 --> 00:09:04,934
Speaker 2: Minister Wells is headed to the UN General Assembly in

160
00:09:05,014 --> 00:09:08,214
Speaker 2: New York, where she'll no doubt take up sideline chats

161
00:09:08,254 --> 00:09:14,254
Speaker 2: with other world leaders on the matter. In Office Taro

162
00:09:14,374 --> 00:09:17,774
Speaker 2: readings Living your Life Guided by Angel Numbers, The rise

163
00:09:17,854 --> 00:09:20,974
Speaker 2: of Etsy Witches for Hire. Oh and we have an

164
00:09:20,974 --> 00:09:23,974
Speaker 2: office ghost safe to say, Mamma mea as an office

165
00:09:23,974 --> 00:09:28,654
Speaker 2: collective is well pretty woo woo. Now I personally am not,

166
00:09:29,054 --> 00:09:31,134
Speaker 2: but before you hire an Etsy witch to put a

167
00:09:31,134 --> 00:09:36,174
Speaker 2: hex on me I'm also not here to yucky anyone's yum.

168
00:09:36,214 --> 00:09:39,054
Speaker 2: From daily horoscope breedings to finding meaning at the bottom

169
00:09:39,094 --> 00:09:42,094
Speaker 2: of your teacup, It's hard to ignore the meteoric rise

170
00:09:42,134 --> 00:09:47,214
Speaker 2: in spirituality and all its various offshoots. So is this

171
00:09:47,334 --> 00:09:50,574
Speaker 2: the new world order guided by angel numbers and celestial

172
00:09:50,654 --> 00:09:54,454
Speaker 2: beings or just a very twenty twenty five coping mechanism

173
00:09:54,614 --> 00:09:58,574
Speaker 2: for the current state of the world. According to Allied

174
00:09:58,614 --> 00:10:01,854
Speaker 2: Market Research, the global astrology industry is set to top

175
00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:05,934
Speaker 2: twenty two billion dollars by twenty thirty one, with gen

176
00:10:06,014 --> 00:10:10,334
Speaker 2: Z driving a huge slice of that market. Tools are

177
00:10:10,374 --> 00:10:14,774
Speaker 2: turbocharging the trend. Astrology apps like Coast and Kunley GPT

178
00:10:15,134 --> 00:10:19,054
Speaker 2: use technology like AI to combine NASA data and ancient

179
00:10:19,134 --> 00:10:23,894
Speaker 2: wisdom for daily personal predictions. Coaster reportedly racking up thirty

180
00:10:24,014 --> 00:10:28,254
Speaker 2: million users. Social media is also a wash, with things

181
00:10:28,254 --> 00:10:32,174
Speaker 2: like diy, moonwater tips, and horoscopes, and even big data

182
00:10:32,214 --> 00:10:36,214
Speaker 2: experts see echoes of ancient star charting in modern machine learning.

183
00:10:36,614 --> 00:10:39,734
Speaker 2: Look tarot cards, birth charts, and other spiritual practices have

184
00:10:39,814 --> 00:10:43,334
Speaker 2: existed long before the boom of things like TikTok, some

185
00:10:43,494 --> 00:10:47,294
Speaker 2: even being traced back to religious mysticism, especially when it

186
00:10:47,334 --> 00:10:51,094
Speaker 2: comes to matters of numerology. But it's because of the

187
00:10:51,134 --> 00:10:54,694
Speaker 2: birth of technology connecting us to each other and information

188
00:10:54,854 --> 00:10:58,574
Speaker 2: faster than ever before, that we're seeing this rise. Even

189
00:10:58,574 --> 00:11:00,774
Speaker 2: the most war verse of us have dipped our toe

190
00:11:00,854 --> 00:11:05,054
Speaker 2: in the mystic pond. Surveys show even skeptics dabble for language,

191
00:11:05,174 --> 00:11:08,934
Speaker 2: labels and social connection. It's less about literal faith and

192
00:11:09,134 --> 00:11:13,094
Speaker 2: more about meaning, personality or control in an unstable world.

193
00:11:14,414 --> 00:11:18,414
Speaker 2: So is twenty twenty five the year woo woo went mainstream?

194
00:11:18,854 --> 00:11:21,294
Speaker 2: To help us make sense of the spiritual shift, we

195
00:11:21,334 --> 00:11:26,054
Speaker 2: are joined by Associate Professor Michael Goldwater from Sydney University. Micah,

196
00:11:26,174 --> 00:11:29,654
Speaker 2: is it time to accept that maybe we're all just a.

197
00:11:29,574 --> 00:11:30,334
Speaker 1: Little woo woo?

198
00:11:31,014 --> 00:11:34,454
Speaker 4: Yeah, so everyone has a little bit of these elements.

199
00:11:34,494 --> 00:11:36,374
Speaker 4: A lot of people try to say all I do

200
00:11:36,454 --> 00:11:39,454
Speaker 4: is believe in science and all these other types of

201
00:11:39,494 --> 00:11:43,254
Speaker 4: things like that, but it's pretty rare. The standard thing

202
00:11:43,894 --> 00:11:48,494
Speaker 4: is something that we call explanatory coexistence, where people in

203
00:11:48,534 --> 00:11:52,094
Speaker 4: their mind at the same time have multiple kinds of

204
00:11:52,134 --> 00:11:56,414
Speaker 4: explanations for things like scientific and superstitious. For example, you

205
00:11:56,494 --> 00:11:58,894
Speaker 4: might think, oh, I'm a sciencey person, of course, all

206
00:11:58,934 --> 00:12:00,334
Speaker 4: I do is believe in science.

207
00:12:00,614 --> 00:12:02,254
Speaker 5: But all of our minds are actually full of.

208
00:12:02,214 --> 00:12:06,734
Speaker 4: A blend of folk wisdom, religious things, you've heard, stuff

209
00:12:06,734 --> 00:12:10,054
Speaker 4: you learned in school, stuff you picked up on little media.

210
00:12:10,254 --> 00:12:12,294
Speaker 4: We're all kind of blending these things, and there's nothing

211
00:12:12,334 --> 00:12:14,814
Speaker 4: that makes us really internally consistent in that way.

212
00:12:15,294 --> 00:12:17,974
Speaker 2: Are some people more prone to it, though, GC Like

213
00:12:18,214 --> 00:12:21,294
Speaker 2: there's younger people that are more inclined to use things

214
00:12:21,374 --> 00:12:25,094
Speaker 2: like astrological apps or maybe like even research their birth charts.

215
00:12:25,494 --> 00:12:28,774
Speaker 4: Some psychologists have talked about a drive for sense making,

216
00:12:28,854 --> 00:12:31,654
Speaker 4: like much we have a drive, a hunger drive, you know,

217
00:12:32,094 --> 00:12:35,334
Speaker 4: thirst is a drive, Sex is a drive. Making sense

218
00:12:35,374 --> 00:12:37,414
Speaker 4: of the world and making sense of our lives is

219
00:12:37,454 --> 00:12:39,894
Speaker 4: a fundamental drive. And we all kind of seek to

220
00:12:39,934 --> 00:12:42,694
Speaker 4: make sense of things. And a lot of organized religious

221
00:12:42,694 --> 00:12:45,254
Speaker 4: practice is sort of in decline in the younger generation,

222
00:12:45,774 --> 00:12:49,094
Speaker 4: so they're often looking to other types of beliefs to

223
00:12:49,134 --> 00:12:50,094
Speaker 4: sort of make sense of things.

224
00:12:50,174 --> 00:12:52,734
Speaker 5: And astrology is a kind of is.

225
00:12:52,654 --> 00:12:56,374
Speaker 4: Particularly one because people sort of use it for particular things. Right,

226
00:12:56,454 --> 00:13:00,214
Speaker 4: So typically you use astrology, say to think about your

227
00:13:00,294 --> 00:13:02,454
Speaker 4: dating life, Right, You're like, oh, I would only ever

228
00:13:02,854 --> 00:13:06,334
Speaker 4: data Gemini or whatever people might say, Right, you know,

229
00:13:06,414 --> 00:13:10,254
Speaker 4: people aren't using astrology necessarily to make other kinds of

230
00:13:10,294 --> 00:13:13,774
Speaker 4: decisions in their lives. So, and also it's a world

231
00:13:13,894 --> 00:13:16,094
Speaker 4: where things that we might know from science, none of

232
00:13:16,134 --> 00:13:18,334
Speaker 4: that is really telling you how to make sense of

233
00:13:18,374 --> 00:13:21,774
Speaker 4: it your dating life. Right, something like astrology has this

234
00:13:21,854 --> 00:13:23,814
Speaker 4: role to come in and help us make sense of

235
00:13:23,894 --> 00:13:26,294
Speaker 4: other parts of our lives that these other things aren't

236
00:13:26,334 --> 00:13:30,094
Speaker 4: necessarily offering us. In addition, is kind of fun, right

237
00:13:30,134 --> 00:13:32,534
Speaker 4: If you're at a party and someone has like tarot cards,

238
00:13:32,694 --> 00:13:35,454
Speaker 4: it kind of becomes a fun game for everyone to

239
00:13:35,974 --> 00:13:38,694
Speaker 4: enjoy it. But also will make clear that even though

240
00:13:38,694 --> 00:13:40,854
Speaker 4: some people are more prone than others, perhaps there's no

241
00:13:41,054 --> 00:13:44,454
Speaker 4: shortage of like scientists who have these kinds of beliefs.

242
00:13:44,534 --> 00:13:46,574
Speaker 5: Right, So I've used example, Oh, he's.

243
00:13:46,414 --> 00:13:48,774
Speaker 4: Not a scientist, but someone like Steve Jobs is sort

244
00:13:48,774 --> 00:13:50,734
Speaker 4: of you think of him as like a math science

245
00:13:50,774 --> 00:13:53,014
Speaker 4: ye guy, Right, he developed all this technology. Right, he

246
00:13:53,294 --> 00:13:56,894
Speaker 4: died from cancer that he treated with homeopathy rather than

247
00:13:57,054 --> 00:13:59,934
Speaker 4: getting this sort of medical treatment that was offered to him. Right,

248
00:14:00,254 --> 00:14:03,534
Speaker 4: there's no kind of clear category of person who doesn't

249
00:14:03,534 --> 00:14:06,094
Speaker 4: think this way, even though it's certainly true that we

250
00:14:06,334 --> 00:14:07,094
Speaker 4: very in it.

251
00:14:07,174 --> 00:14:09,294
Speaker 2: So is it hurting anyone then, or should we just

252
00:14:09,334 --> 00:14:12,014
Speaker 2: leave people to their own spiritual devices.

253
00:14:12,174 --> 00:14:13,734
Speaker 4: So someti as I say, it's kind of like, well,

254
00:14:13,774 --> 00:14:15,254
Speaker 4: what are the consequences of doing it?

255
00:14:15,334 --> 00:14:15,454
Speaker 5: Right?

256
00:14:15,454 --> 00:14:17,894
Speaker 4: So, if you're someone like I think the Exceive jobs

257
00:14:17,894 --> 00:14:19,774
Speaker 4: example is a great example of when it did have

258
00:14:19,974 --> 00:14:22,374
Speaker 4: this big negative effect because he passed away from.

259
00:14:22,254 --> 00:14:23,334
Speaker 5: The cancer he to treat.

260
00:14:23,574 --> 00:14:26,134
Speaker 4: But there's certainly lots of other cases where let's say

261
00:14:26,134 --> 00:14:28,974
Speaker 4: you're using astrology and to sort of help you think

262
00:14:29,014 --> 00:14:30,134
Speaker 4: about your dating life.

263
00:14:31,254 --> 00:14:32,494
Speaker 5: I don't know what's the harm in that.

264
00:14:32,534 --> 00:14:34,574
Speaker 4: I mean, if you met someone you really liked and

265
00:14:34,614 --> 00:14:36,934
Speaker 4: then just go, no, I can't date them because they

266
00:14:36,934 --> 00:14:39,614
Speaker 4: have the wrong astrological sign. I guess that would kind

267
00:14:39,614 --> 00:14:42,454
Speaker 4: of be a harm because you are rejecting some would

268
00:14:42,494 --> 00:14:44,654
Speaker 4: for not what you might think is a sound reason, right,

269
00:14:44,694 --> 00:14:46,374
Speaker 4: But as long as they're not getting in the way

270
00:14:46,414 --> 00:14:49,854
Speaker 4: of the other stuff, it's not leading you to reject

271
00:14:50,054 --> 00:14:52,574
Speaker 4: what your doctor is telling you or something like that.

272
00:14:52,974 --> 00:14:55,774
Speaker 4: I don't think it is necessarily a problem.

273
00:14:55,894 --> 00:15:01,014
Speaker 2: Things like terror readings, psychic readings, the coastar app they've

274
00:15:01,054 --> 00:15:02,894
Speaker 2: all been around for a long time, and a lot

275
00:15:02,894 --> 00:15:04,894
Speaker 2: of these practices have been around for as long as

276
00:15:04,894 --> 00:15:08,494
Speaker 2: some organized religions more than what just viral tiktoks would

277
00:15:08,534 --> 00:15:11,334
Speaker 2: lead you to belief. But there is something in that

278
00:15:11,374 --> 00:15:14,694
Speaker 2: they are booming now is it a matter of twenty

279
00:15:14,734 --> 00:15:17,374
Speaker 2: twenty five? This is just how we're dealing and coping

280
00:15:17,374 --> 00:15:18,334
Speaker 2: with the world around us.

281
00:15:18,734 --> 00:15:23,494
Speaker 4: This sort of need for sense making does potentially increase

282
00:15:23,654 --> 00:15:26,174
Speaker 4: in times of greater uncertainty. There are times and places

283
00:15:26,174 --> 00:15:28,134
Speaker 4: where you feel less in control in your life. You

284
00:15:28,214 --> 00:15:30,734
Speaker 4: see this simple the astrology is different than this, but

285
00:15:30,734 --> 00:15:33,614
Speaker 4: you see this like the endorsement of conspiracy theories, for example,

286
00:15:33,774 --> 00:15:36,214
Speaker 4: people get more involved in conspiracy theories when there's lots

287
00:15:36,214 --> 00:15:39,254
Speaker 4: of uncertainty and people feel less in control, you know,

288
00:15:39,294 --> 00:15:41,174
Speaker 4: in this type of sense making helps you kind of

289
00:15:41,494 --> 00:15:44,334
Speaker 4: figure out what's happening in the world, can really help

290
00:15:44,374 --> 00:15:48,174
Speaker 4: to instill this kind of sense of control over your

291
00:15:48,174 --> 00:15:50,734
Speaker 4: life when you have a greater understanding. So some of

292
00:15:50,774 --> 00:15:53,734
Speaker 4: these other bleek systems can all play these same kinds

293
00:15:53,974 --> 00:15:57,654
Speaker 4: of roles. The world is full of horrible things, I mean,

294
00:15:57,814 --> 00:15:59,894
Speaker 4: that's always kind of been the case. So COVID kind

295
00:15:59,894 --> 00:16:02,014
Speaker 4: of accelerated a lot of these types of trends or

296
00:16:02,054 --> 00:16:03,734
Speaker 4: all kinds of trends in the world that were already

297
00:16:03,734 --> 00:16:06,894
Speaker 4: going one way, and then COVID really accelerated them, right,

298
00:16:06,934 --> 00:16:12,214
Speaker 4: and so people's social isolation increased, right, all these sort

299
00:16:12,254 --> 00:16:14,294
Speaker 4: of literally with less control of our lives. We were

300
00:16:14,294 --> 00:16:17,214
Speaker 4: told we couldn't leave our houses. There was this of

301
00:16:17,294 --> 00:16:21,174
Speaker 4: getting sick and dying. So those types of experiences do

302
00:16:21,334 --> 00:16:23,774
Speaker 4: kind of lead to an uptick in getting involved in

303
00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:26,694
Speaker 4: these other sorts of belief systems, for sure.

304
00:16:26,934 --> 00:16:29,054
Speaker 2: I guess the other element to that is the tech

305
00:16:29,134 --> 00:16:32,334
Speaker 2: advancement and enhancement is maybe a better word, because, like

306
00:16:32,374 --> 00:16:34,694
Speaker 2: you said, we're more connected more now than ever. We

307
00:16:34,774 --> 00:16:36,574
Speaker 2: look for meaning and we look for connection in all

308
00:16:36,574 --> 00:16:39,614
Speaker 2: different places, including on the internet. The last one I

309
00:16:39,654 --> 00:16:41,974
Speaker 2: want to get your feelings on is the rise of

310
00:16:42,014 --> 00:16:45,254
Speaker 2: the itsy witch. Do you know much about these ittsy witches?

311
00:16:45,294 --> 00:16:47,094
Speaker 2: And where do you fall in that camp?

312
00:16:47,214 --> 00:16:50,174
Speaker 4: I've seen some Instagram witches and somebot I certainly know

313
00:16:50,774 --> 00:16:54,334
Speaker 4: that any women who kind of identify which sort of

314
00:16:54,374 --> 00:16:57,934
Speaker 4: witchcraft through a certain extent now similar to astrology, I

315
00:16:57,974 --> 00:17:01,894
Speaker 4: don't think they necessarily believe in it, right. There's sort

316
00:17:01,894 --> 00:17:04,654
Speaker 4: of this notion of like it's fun to sort of

317
00:17:04,694 --> 00:17:07,454
Speaker 4: play along as if we believe in it. Even if

318
00:17:07,454 --> 00:17:10,334
Speaker 4: you don't really believe in the same sense, right, they're

319
00:17:10,374 --> 00:17:13,614
Speaker 4: not actually trying to do whatever witchcraft themselves. But there

320
00:17:13,614 --> 00:17:16,254
Speaker 4: are many cultures around the world right now where people

321
00:17:16,294 --> 00:17:18,814
Speaker 4: do sort of pay for spells, like I remember the

322
00:17:18,854 --> 00:17:20,774
Speaker 4: word for this in Brazil. But there's this practice of

323
00:17:20,814 --> 00:17:24,254
Speaker 4: people kind of getting these spell recipes right, and they

324
00:17:24,294 --> 00:17:26,134
Speaker 4: can do all kinds of things. You might like I

325
00:17:26,214 --> 00:17:28,094
Speaker 4: want to get rid of this wart on my head,

326
00:17:28,214 --> 00:17:29,774
Speaker 4: or can be like I want this person to fall

327
00:17:29,814 --> 00:17:31,494
Speaker 4: in love with me, or it can be like I'm

328
00:17:31,494 --> 00:17:33,294
Speaker 4: going to get a new job. Right, there are sort

329
00:17:33,294 --> 00:17:36,854
Speaker 4: of spells for all these different kinds of practices that

330
00:17:36,894 --> 00:17:39,374
Speaker 4: are like these products that you could purchase, and so

331
00:17:39,454 --> 00:17:42,054
Speaker 4: this is a part of cultures all over the world,

332
00:17:42,094 --> 00:17:44,534
Speaker 4: and it kind of sounds like these Etsy Whitches a

333
00:17:44,734 --> 00:17:48,854
Speaker 4: kind of like an Anglo Sphere version of some of

334
00:17:48,854 --> 00:17:51,374
Speaker 4: these things that exist everywhere. There's also a kind of

335
00:17:51,454 --> 00:17:54,454
Speaker 4: very feminine identity with the witch thing. So I feel like,

336
00:17:54,494 --> 00:17:57,654
Speaker 4: given how many women historically we're kind of accused of

337
00:17:57,694 --> 00:18:00,894
Speaker 4: being witches that executed for that or you know, less

338
00:18:00,894 --> 00:18:04,814
Speaker 4: extreme things, right, there's a sort of like retaking power

339
00:18:05,294 --> 00:18:07,814
Speaker 4: back from in that term, right where It's about our

340
00:18:07,974 --> 00:18:09,414
Speaker 4: collective feminine energy.

341
00:18:09,134 --> 00:18:09,894
Speaker 5: And things like that.

342
00:18:11,734 --> 00:18:13,814
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

343
00:18:13,894 --> 00:18:16,814
Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me, Taylor Strano,

344
00:18:16,854 --> 00:18:19,894
Speaker 2: and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill